**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 06 02:59:57 2010
Oct 06 04:28:02 <sabotage> this may be a dumb question, but in the US at least, on a land line, dialing "0" (only a one "0") will connect you to the operator for "Operator assisted services"
Oct 06 04:28:17 <sabotage> is this even supported on 3G/GSM?
Oct 06 04:28:43 <sabotage> or is it carrier dependent?
Oct 06 04:29:05 <tmzt_> I don't think that works
Oct 06 04:29:11 <sabotage> ofono lets it though, as i'd expect
Oct 06 04:29:16 <tmzt_> but it would be carrier independent I think
Oct 06 04:29:21 <tmzt_> sure, but just as a number
Oct 06 04:29:28 <tmzt_> like for my carrier (but cdma) you dial 611
Oct 06 04:29:40 <tmzt_> 0 probably goes to directory assistance and they charge
Oct 06 04:29:45 <sabotage> but different carriers (two I tested) give messages (voice) that the number is in complete
Oct 06 04:30:01 <tmzt_> not sure what your asking
Oct 06 04:30:30 <sabotage> well I have a bug against MeeGo dialer that I should not even attempt to place a call for "0"
Oct 06 04:30:36 <sabotage> yet
Oct 06 04:30:43 <sabotage> as far as ofono cares
Oct 06 04:30:48 <sabotage> it's a valide number
Oct 06 04:30:51 <sabotage> valid
Oct 06 04:31:11 <tmzt_> unless it's N11 and emergency I don't see how handling should be special
Oct 06 04:31:21 <tmzt_> question though, does meego dialer work on gl systems?
Oct 06 04:31:26 <sabotage> so... I'm just trying to learn what else I should know before I mark the bug as WONTFIX ;)
Oct 06 04:31:31 <tmzt_> and what kind of libraries does it need
Oct 06 04:31:40 <sabotage> g1?
Oct 06 04:31:43 <tmzt_> I'm not an ofono dev by the way
Oct 06 04:31:44 <sabotage> android
Oct 06 04:31:48 <sabotage> I know
Oct 06 04:31:52 <tmzt_> non gl
Oct 06 04:31:53 <tmzt_> sorry
Oct 06 04:31:56 <tmzt_> no gl library
Oct 06 04:31:58 * sabotage knows the ofono devs
Oct 06 04:32:14 <tmzt_> k, just don't want to sound official
Oct 06 04:32:23 <sabotage> dialer uses libmeegotouch, which in turn uses GL, yes
Oct 06 04:32:46 <tmzt_> I'm looking for a nice dialer for plain X11
Oct 06 04:33:03 <tmzt_> is it telepathy based or use ofono directly?
Oct 06 04:33:06 <sabotage> it'll "work" on non-gl systems, if you pass -software on the commandline
Oct 06 04:33:13 <sabotage> but it will be dog slow
Oct 06 04:33:15 <tmzt_> ah, I might try that
Oct 06 04:33:34 <sabotage> I talk direct to ofono
Oct 06 04:33:34 <tmzt_> I'm just looking for an example, trying to build something with gtk but it's too slow
Oct 06 04:33:40 <tmzt_> so I'm stuck trying to fix X
Oct 06 04:33:47 <tmzt_> how do you handle alerting?
Oct 06 04:33:57 <sabotage> meaning?
Oct 06 04:34:02 <tmzt_> in coming calls
Oct 06 04:34:21 <sabotage> if onDisplay(), I pop-up a dialog
Oct 06 04:34:33 <tmzt_> okay, cool
Oct 06 04:34:39 <tmzt_> I'll find the code later, thanks
Oct 06 04:34:42 <sabotage> if not, I send an MNotification event to the MNotificationManager
Oct 06 04:34:56 <tmzt_> onDisplay() is meegotouch lifecycle stuff?
Oct 06 04:35:00 <sabotage> that in turn will render a notice bound to a dbus method
Oct 06 04:35:32 <sabotage> onDisplay is a boolean property check for libmeegotouch windows
Oct 06 04:35:54 <tmzt_> okay, I haven't learned the meego apis
Oct 06 04:36:22 <tmzt_> I'm familiar with the concepts from android, and know that X's concepts of app lifecycle aren't really sufficient on mobile
Oct 06 04:37:40 <sabotage> well, if anyone has pointers to GSM/3G spec info that defines a behaviour for dialing "0", please let me know (holtmann or denkenz)
Oct 06 04:38:10 <tmzt_> cool, thanks for answering my questions and I'll let you get back to work now :)
Oct 06 04:38:13 <sabotage> otherwise, I'm not going to handle "0" as a special case, since ofono accepts it as a valid number
Oct 06 04:38:40 <tmzt_> oh, you might find that some non emergency numbers work without sim
Oct 06 04:38:45 <tmzt_> not sure how to represent that in ui
Oct 06 04:39:05 <tmzt_> I can call 611 on a non activated verizon phone for instance, I'm sure gsm has a similar concept
Oct 06 04:39:28 <tmzt_> actually that doesn't make sense in gsm world
Oct 06 08:47:14 <kvehmanen> tmzt_: sure it does.. you can call emergency numbers without a sim
Oct 06 08:47:42 <tmzt_> activation not emergency
Oct 06 08:47:49 <tmzt_> 611
Oct 06 08:47:58 <tmzt_> weird it missed a few words
Oct 06 08:50:42 <kvehmanen> tmzt_: aa, yes, that's different and is not present in gsm
Oct 06 09:29:29 <pessi> sabotage: 22.030 
Oct 06 09:30:38 <pessi> section 6.5, figure 2.5.3.2, also section 6.5.5.1
Oct 06 11:23:05 <denkenz> sabotage, pessi: 22.030 only describes supplementary service control, and makes no mention of what constitutes an actual valid number
Oct 06 11:23:40 <denkenz> 24.008 mentions that the called party number iei can be effectively null, so the minimum number of digits in a phone number is not really defined
Oct 06 11:45:29 <pessi> yes, the problem is the MMi, which defines how the number 0 is treated (without ongoing calls it is sent as USSD, during call it will release held calls or waiting call
Oct 06 11:46:19 <pessi> it is pretty much like ex-Soviet emergency numbers (01, 02, 03, 04) that you could not call with a GSM phone
Oct 06 11:48:15 <denkenz> pessi: The issue here is that it is different between versions of 22.030
Oct 06 11:48:30 <denkenz> The latest v9 now defines 'short string' as 1 or 2 characters
Oct 06 11:48:43 <denkenz> That didn't exist in v8 series
Oct 06 12:00:22 <pessi> hm? it has been there from 1995
Oct 06 12:00:47 <pessi> back when 22.030 was GSM 02.30
Oct 06 12:00:50 <denkenz> Not according to the comment in common.c
Oct 06 12:01:00 <denkenz> But maybe that part was missed somehow
Oct 06 12:08:54 <pessi> perhaps.. it is not easy to decipher ;)
Oct 06 12:09:10 <pessi> anyways, dialer can have nice button called "Operator" that will call to 0
Oct 06 12:09:47 <denkenz> I think it was simply an oversight on my part
Oct 06 12:10:22 <denkenz> length 1 and 2 strings should be treated as USSDs
Oct 06 12:10:43 <denkenz> Comment in common.c needs to be updated and the logic fixed
Oct 06 12:22:14 <pessi> denkenz: I could do that, could you have a peek in the sim_ready_notify stuff? and I trust you guys have ifx modem that you can test?
Oct 06 12:23:49 <denkenz> I will try, but I'm on vacation atm
Oct 06 12:23:56 <denkenz> and your trust might be misplaced ;)
Oct 06 12:24:26 <pessi> oh, this is good place to spend your vacation ;)
Oct 06 12:25:04 <denkenz> lol, I already live here it seems ;)
Oct 06 12:33:22 <holtmann> pessi: I don't have IFX hardware to test with. Denis and I wrote the MAL blindly without having hardware.
Oct 06 12:52:29 <pessi> holtmann: ok, in any case I'll check how mbm handles PUKed SIM
Oct 06 12:52:55 <holtmann> Current IFX and PUK is not working.
Oct 06 12:53:04 <holtmann> We only have IFX and PIN working.
Oct 06 12:53:24 <holtmann> For some reason the code path for the PUK is different and doesn't go via our quirks.
Oct 06 12:53:37 <holtmann> I was waiting for Denis to come back from vacation before bothering him about that.
Oct 06 23:44:37 <raji> denkenz, could you tell me which version of ofono has enabled history for hfp drivers? I looked into the git log but that information was not quite obvious to me.
Oct 07 00:16:05 <denkenz> raji: dunno, its been a while ago
Oct 07 00:16:19 <denkenz> probably 6 months now at least
Oct 07 00:33:30 <tmzt_> denkenz: do you have any idea why the build system would attempt to *execute* include/ofono
Oct 07 00:39:23 <denkenz> nope
Oct 07 01:28:38 <balrog-k1n> pessi: do you know if there is a character that isimodem firmware treats as a "pause" in voicecall.c send_dtmf?
Oct 07 01:29:09 <balrog-k1n> pessi: also does the call return immediately, or after the sound is emitted?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 07 02:53:27 2010
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 07 02:59:56 2010