**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 07 23:59:56 2005 Feb 08 00:00:16 jacques needs either a Mini or a PowerBook....I vote for the Powerbook. Feb 08 00:01:04 and I need sleep Feb 08 00:03:13 sleep is just a sign of poor work habits ;) Feb 08 00:03:40 lol! Feb 08 00:03:54 I got a good chuckle out of that...it even got my wife going! Feb 08 00:04:12 *grin* Feb 08 00:05:03 tonight is sleepy time nite. Feb 08 00:05:43 ok...as long as it doesn't become habit-forming Feb 08 00:06:02 yeah... Feb 08 00:06:17 after all, I *do* need hardware ;) Feb 08 00:06:31 the difficulty with the way we are doing development is the non-stop 24HR nature of it all. Feb 08 00:07:10 we are spread across 3 1/2 Continents. Feb 08 00:08:11 yeah...someone is always up and about wondering where the other goof-offs are *lol* Feb 08 00:08:27 sloughing off. Feb 08 00:08:40 * ka6sox-zzzz needs that Jacuzzi tonight. Feb 08 00:08:40 yep Feb 08 00:10:51 awit Feb 08 00:10:54 ! Feb 08 00:11:02 I was in the middle of fixing my stupid phone Feb 08 00:11:14 but I need drawing to digest soemtime in the not too distant future. Feb 08 00:11:28 (I will have limited time this week) Feb 08 00:11:59 I am having trouble again with the PDF's Feb 08 00:12:01 guess I missed him. Feb 08 00:12:04 nope Feb 08 00:12:17 Its okay if the schedule is good. Feb 08 00:12:21 I was just shutting down the monitor when I saw you. Feb 08 00:12:28 the schedule is VERY good. Feb 08 00:12:28 But I do have a decreasing time problem. Feb 08 00:12:41 tommorrwo afternoon I will have the 1st cut of the board. Feb 08 00:13:00 I would like to spend a bit of time looking and verifying that we dont have any "oopes". Feb 08 00:13:08 oopses? Feb 08 00:13:13 however you speel it. ;-) Feb 08 00:13:24 yep Feb 08 00:13:36 that is why I'm doing a first cut. Feb 08 00:13:37 k night. Feb 08 00:13:39 nite Feb 08 00:13:42 ba ba Feb 08 00:13:45 I do want a schematic to munch on Feb 08 00:13:46 though Feb 08 00:14:04 do you have gEDA running anywhere? Feb 08 00:14:06 so I can look at the numbers and start with the ise getting the project going Feb 08 00:14:11 I have pcb going. Feb 08 00:14:16 oaky Feb 08 00:14:25 I didnt get the rest of geda going yet. Feb 08 00:14:25 numbers is what the first cut is all about. Feb 08 00:14:31 okay Feb 08 00:14:41 put it on an x86 lappy... Feb 08 00:14:42 ok thanks. Feb 08 00:14:49 I have it on 2 lappies now Feb 08 00:15:27 I'll entertain you guys with my cell phone story later. Feb 08 00:15:31 its still unfolding. Feb 08 00:15:47 uh oh. Feb 08 00:15:49 Impact and SMT Components Dont Mix. Feb 08 00:16:16 putting humpty dumpty back together again. Feb 08 00:16:48 ouch. Feb 08 00:17:07 Its the smallest one giving me a headache. Feb 08 00:17:18 the bridge compoment for the antenna Feb 08 00:17:25 dunno if its a cap or 0ohm . Feb 08 00:17:34 but its fscking small Feb 08 00:17:35 cap usually Feb 08 00:18:10 okay now I really am going to bed... Feb 08 00:18:25 k night! Feb 08 00:18:26 niters ;) Feb 08 00:18:33 nighters! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 00:30:09 2005 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 00:33:05 2005 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 00:36:12 2005 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 00:39:05 2005 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 00:39:55 2005 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 00:46:05 2005 Feb 08 05:39:56 Hrmm... I think my Mini might be defective Feb 08 05:44:58 :-( Feb 08 05:52:21 I get loads of pink flickery lines when I watch a DVD at the max resolution my DVI LCD works at Feb 08 05:52:30 Reduce the resolution a bit and it works Feb 08 05:52:43 I'm going to "lug" the mini over to a friends later tonight and try it again Feb 08 06:13:55 Interestingly, somebody else I know has the same problem with his plasma and mini Feb 08 06:27:00 dvi cable problem ? Feb 08 06:33:28 Not sure. Only got one cable Feb 08 09:53:19 is it mourning yet? Feb 08 09:54:21 no, not yet, go back to sleep Feb 08 09:55:28 okay thanks Feb 08 10:09:18 * beewoolie-away rubs back against elm tree Feb 08 10:12:22 beewoolie: morning crack baby Feb 08 10:12:45 * beewoolie roots for truffles Feb 08 10:14:40 prpplague: Is there CF on your board? Feb 08 10:15:49 beewoolie: no Feb 08 10:15:54 beewoolie: only mmc Feb 08 10:15:56 tb Feb 08 10:16:02 why? Feb 08 10:16:08 prpplague: Does the MMC slot accept SD cards? Feb 08 10:16:26 beewoolie: yea you can use sd cards in mmc mode Feb 08 10:16:42 beewoolie: but not utilize all of the sd features Feb 08 10:16:48 I ask because I'm curious how other OEMs have wired their CF slots and whether or not my code will work with them. Feb 08 10:16:58 prpplague: Like what? Feb 08 10:17:34 beewoolie: there are some extra pins on the SD card interface that are for the "secure" portion Feb 08 10:17:53 beewoolie: write protection, password protect, that sort of stuff Feb 08 10:18:15 So password protected data cannot be read without running the other pins. Feb 08 10:18:48 i don't believe so, to be honest the "secure" portion isn't something we needed so i didn't research it in detail Feb 08 10:18:59 k Feb 08 10:19:09 just researched enough to know that sd cards work as mmc cards when the extra pins aren't used Feb 08 10:19:24 iirc, i have some specs somewhere Feb 08 10:20:23 Don't worry. I know I can get the specs. I don't think I have anything with an MMC slot at the moment, so I'm not going to write a driver right now. I'm over half-way to getting the fat driver. Feb 08 10:20:43 It should be easy to use the fat driver on any medium. Feb 08 10:21:55 http://www.sdcard.com/usa/TextPage.asp?Page=4 Feb 08 10:22:22 beewoolie: yea, the mmc slot is just an implmentation of the SPI interface Feb 08 10:22:32 beewoolie: you could wire up a mmc slot in about 5 minutes Feb 08 10:22:48 It would help to have the card holder. :-) Feb 08 10:23:33 beewoolie: got an old floppy drive cable? Feb 08 10:23:46 Many. I just don't have the carrier. Feb 08 10:24:28 beewoolie: http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/ee476/FinalProjects/s2000/peterdan/MMC.gif Feb 08 10:25:03 beewoolie: the pin spacing on the old floppy drive cardege match that of the sd/mmc card Feb 08 10:25:07 Pretty sneaky sis. Feb 08 10:25:26 I'll just add that to the list of projects.... Feb 08 10:25:51 beewoolie: another item that is readily available is the juicebox accessory kit - http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBoxMMC Feb 08 10:26:08 beewoolie: the cartridge is nothing more that a sd/mmc socket Feb 08 10:26:13 beewoolie: no electronics Feb 08 10:26:24 beewoolie: great for getting started with mmc Feb 08 10:26:44 beewoolie: you can pick it up at walmart for about $30 these days Feb 08 10:26:46 At the local shop, there's a USB to card-media adapter for $12. Feb 08 10:26:53 I almost bought one. Feb 08 10:27:02 beewoolie: yea, but the cart is what you want Feb 08 10:27:13 I don't follow. Feb 08 10:27:26 this thing has it. Feb 08 10:27:44 beewoolie: the cart has the mmc socket, all you have to do is solder to cardege and your up and running Feb 08 10:28:11 Oh. I see. The USB adapter is separate. Feb 08 10:28:22 beewoolie: yea Feb 08 10:28:29 I'll keep the link. Feb 08 10:29:16 beewoolie: you can solder right angle .1" headers on the cardege, and then use it with standard proto boards Feb 08 10:30:05 beewoolie: i had mmc working on my pixter in all of about 20 minutes Feb 08 10:30:30 Plus 1w to receive the juice. Feb 08 10:31:06 beewoolie: ? Feb 08 10:31:26 You gotta get the juice box first, no? Feb 08 10:31:33 beewoolie: nope Feb 08 10:31:37 beewoolie: just buy the kit Feb 08 10:31:57 beewoolie: the kit has the cart, the sd card, the usb adapter, for $30.00 Feb 08 10:31:59 And a fairy appears on your table with it? Feb 08 10:32:11 UPS takes a couple of days where I live. Feb 08 10:32:24 beewoolie: no walmart there?? Feb 08 10:32:59 I won't go there. Bad for everyone. (Beewoolie's politics falls out onto the floor.) Feb 08 10:33:03 beewoolie: oh you were saying plus 1 week Feb 08 10:33:28 beewoolie: yea, i don't like them either, i usually shop at kmart first, target second Feb 08 10:33:39 beewoolie: but eveyone knows walmart Feb 08 10:33:43 I've never even seen one. Feb 08 10:34:19 * prpplague doesn't buy hormel products either Feb 08 10:34:30 Oh? why is that? Feb 08 10:35:51 beewoolie: during a gay pride parade in florida, the hormel heir, dressed as a nun on a float, procedded to urinated on a cruicifix Feb 08 10:36:32 You must not be a fan of Andres Serano. Feb 08 10:36:43 s/Serano/Serrano/ Feb 08 10:36:55 beewoolie: doesn't ring a bell Feb 08 10:37:03 * prpplague googles Feb 08 10:38:05 oh definetly not Feb 08 10:38:13 * beewoolie smirks Feb 08 10:38:47 prpplague: I have some catholic pals who really like the guy's work. Feb 08 10:38:48 * prpplague is not pervayor of religion, but he finds that kind of behavor totally disgusting Feb 08 10:40:13 prpplague: Did I ever tell you about the scripts I wrote to pull package from Debian and build embedded root filesystems? Feb 08 10:44:47 beewoolie: nope, don't believe so Feb 08 10:45:05 I Feb 08 10:45:18 * beewoolie moves fingers to home row Feb 08 10:45:49 I wrote something years ago to build rootfs from the debian archive. It's pretty fast, but it doesn't compile so it cannot optimize as much as oe. Feb 08 10:46:06 OE has been dogging me for weeks. I got fed up and fired up the harvest scripts. Feb 08 10:46:28 I've got a root filesystem and it only took 30 minutes. Most of that was tweaking the config for arm. Feb 08 10:47:14 Debian builds almost everything so it looks like a reasonable way to go. Feb 08 10:47:49 beewoolie: yea, i have problems using OE as well Feb 08 10:50:59 beewoolie: OE started out ok, but its gotten way too complicated imho Feb 08 10:51:23 1) there are not test configurations to verify that it builds. Feb 08 10:51:37 2) tests I've run fail more often than they succeed Feb 08 10:51:56 3) it is difficult to discover the build targets Feb 08 10:52:12 4) It requires python...my personal peeve. Feb 08 10:52:46 I'm certain I could go on for a while. Feb 08 10:52:59 beewoolie: yea, i have all the same complants Feb 08 10:53:20 beewoolie: kergoth is a good guy, but he gets really defensive when i try to discus it with him Feb 08 10:53:32 Don't think I'm a big complainer. There's a reason why I wrote the bbp parser. Feb 08 10:54:42 ...not bad. The rootfs I built doesn't work, but I can get a shell prompt. Feb 08 11:07:46 prpplague: The SD sheet doesn't seem to have a chip select. Am I missing it? Feb 08 11:08:20 beewoolie: the pins have different meaning when in mmc mode Feb 08 11:08:41 Even so, in SD mode is there a chip select? Feb 08 11:09:38 beewoolie: no i don't believe so Feb 08 11:10:41 If I understand it correctly, that means there needs to be a gate on the clock (or something similar) when sharing the SPI line. Feb 08 11:11:58 beewoolie: well in sd mode i don't belive you can use the SPI interface Feb 08 11:12:08 beewoolie: SPI is only for the MMC mode Feb 08 11:12:29 Ah. right. That makes sense. I'm looking at the SD primecell bragsheet from ARM. Feb 08 11:15:11 wonder what this is using - http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=173611&cat=1&itemid=342& Feb 08 11:16:46 beewoolie: here is a better description of the sd stuff - http://www.egr.msu.edu/classes/ece480/goodman/fall/group05/deliverables/appnote_foust.pdf Feb 08 11:18:29 One of the references is the fellow at Sharp who is responsible for the LH79524. Feb 08 11:19:06 hehe Feb 08 11:19:56 yea, i read the 79520 white paper on interfacing mmc Feb 08 11:19:59 jun li iirc Feb 08 11:28:36 lordy this lineo patch sucks Feb 08 11:29:02 * prpplague has a serious case of the "don'ts" today Feb 08 12:42:07 beewoolie are you a vim user? I've got a question on tabbing Feb 08 12:42:38 kas11: emacs imprinted. Feb 08 12:43:00 too bad, really, cause I know that vim is good Feb 08 12:43:13 ic...thx ;) Feb 08 12:44:35 got files here with a tabs of 2 spaces...would rather just let gvim deal with it but I can't make gvim cooperate Feb 08 12:46:49 kas11: I just untabify those things. There's an emacs command to do it. Feb 08 12:47:29 kas11: why not just run indent on it? Feb 08 12:54:11 prpplage...I like 8 space tabs...I know others don't...so I was trying to be a team player ;) Feb 08 12:54:56 and there is a way of doing it...my simple mind just hasn't figured it out yet Feb 08 12:56:44 and why should I rtfm when I can blunder around on my own *lol* Feb 08 12:58:08 kas11: hehe, i usually use indent to re-tab my stuff before i check it in Feb 08 12:58:13 kas11: pretty easy to do Feb 08 12:59:54 I did that last night...and then found the real cvs for the code...thought it might be nice to do it right this time Feb 08 12:59:55 kas11: au contraire. I only ever use 8 space tabs. Anything else is asking for trouble. I don't use 8 space indents on my own code. Feb 08 13:01:18 unfortunately, tabswidth=2 isn't exactly true...2, 3 or 4 seems to be the deal here so i8 leaves some work to be done Feb 08 13:03:50 beewoolie I agree Feb 08 14:49:48 that ka6sox is always sleeping Feb 08 14:51:15 yeah. lazy or what Feb 08 14:51:32 truely Feb 08 14:56:34 Tiersten: popped out your mini yet? Feb 08 15:02:22 Nope Feb 08 15:02:33 Thought there was a problem with DVI but it appears it affects all of them Feb 08 15:02:56 Tried mine on a different DVI monitor and it works fine. My Compaq however gets lots of pink lines flickering when using the max res Feb 08 15:03:08 I've asked somebody I know at ATI in the Mac dept to have a look Feb 08 15:20:38 weird...sri..I've been in a meeting that I forgot about. Feb 08 15:20:48 done in 7 mins Feb 08 15:21:17 ? Feb 08 15:21:41 You're been in a meeting you've forgetten about? Don't think that's ever happened to me. I usually remember that I'm in a meeting ;) Feb 08 15:25:35 I asked you the question and then remembered I had to be in a meeting Feb 08 15:30:24 ah Feb 08 16:24:31 * nslu2-noob mumble Feb 08 16:24:57 dyoung, is that you? Feb 08 16:25:53 heh Yeah. Feb 08 16:25:57 of course...that has his signature. Feb 08 16:26:54 I was gonna bop over to #nslu2-general and harass byront, but I forgot I cant get there from here. Feb 08 16:27:29 let me add it to the list. Feb 08 16:28:04 no need. Feb 08 16:47:07 nslu2-n00b check your mail. Feb 08 17:02:58 Empty. Feb 08 17:05:07 You can put it in my home directory on builds or gabe too. scp is my friend. Feb 08 17:05:14 Email seems to be my enemy. Feb 08 17:06:02 okay. Feb 08 17:23:32 where to look? Feb 08 17:24:30 minutes Feb 08 17:24:40 ok Feb 08 17:27:08 argh... I need source control for these version! Feb 08 17:31:26 dyoung-web: you really have the right version.. Feb 08 17:31:46 the other version has something we decided against. Feb 08 17:32:21 unless you want me to add FTDI245. Feb 08 17:34:29 Dont need it. Feb 08 17:35:01 then you have it. Feb 08 17:35:24 the bypass caps are in and the 4 layer board will provide distributed capacitance. Feb 08 17:37:40 okay Feb 08 17:37:46 Do we know the pinnings of the cpld yet? Feb 08 17:38:00 no..that is still being worked. Feb 08 17:38:10 and won't be done until the final layout is done. Feb 08 17:38:24 its morphing to meet requirements. Feb 08 17:38:38 I need a flashy light. ;-) Feb 08 17:38:47 3 flashy lights! Feb 08 17:38:50 WIth a header. Feb 08 17:38:53 yes Feb 08 17:38:57 its there. Feb 08 17:39:11 So I can look at the flashy light and say "Ooh a flashy light....." Feb 08 17:39:17 :) Feb 08 17:39:30 I gotta run to the Dr and get some meds for my Son... Feb 08 17:39:32 BBS. Feb 08 17:40:10 is this power bit a LT1521 (or whatever the part number was) ? Feb 08 17:41:12 yes Feb 08 17:42:24 I think I am about to dump Fedora...I installed an update and now it wants to use Open Office as the default viewer for *everything* ...@#$%^ Feb 08 17:48:08 Please notate later. Feb 08 18:52:32 ka6sox, I'm moments away from being geda enabled. Feb 08 18:52:51 I'm in a quandry about what to do about the big/heavy work lappy too Feb 08 18:52:59 Its dual boot now Feb 08 18:53:26 but half the stuff I need to work on is winxp (webpack, etc) and half is linux. Feb 08 18:54:29 I should replace it with a mini. ;-) The mini is ligher than this boatanchor. Feb 08 18:56:00 this wouldnt be so bad if I could find a winxp X server that worked the way it was supposed to. Feb 08 19:07:31 back... Feb 08 19:07:36 I need a lappy too. Feb 08 19:07:47 unfortunately it needs to be a dozer. Feb 08 19:08:18 *with* a parallel port (saw a Toshiba the other day without one!) Feb 08 19:20:19 anyone seen [g2] recently? Feb 08 19:25:54 I'm mostly geda enabled Feb 08 19:26:05 but I cant remote display so I gotta walk over there to do anything Feb 08 19:26:23 everything works except gnucap which gives me bizzare error messages when compiling Feb 08 19:27:57 hmmm weird. Feb 08 19:29:22 Is there a repo of gschem compatible parts? Feb 08 19:31:27 the parts are in the program. Feb 08 19:32:11 Pretty limited library. Feb 08 19:32:45 I'm sure someone must have a part repo someplace. Feb 08 19:33:39 Theres a lone xc part. xc95108xl. Feb 08 19:36:41 yeah...not too good. Feb 08 19:36:57 if it was easier I would submit my parts...:) Feb 08 19:37:08 but it doesn't seem to be that easy. Feb 08 19:38:03 to come up with part definitions? Feb 08 19:38:15 The file format is pretty ugly. Feb 08 19:38:33 it makes my head spin actually. Feb 08 19:38:39 yeah. Feb 08 19:40:09 It doesnt seem to be very well documented as to *how* one goes about developing parts. Feb 08 19:40:23 I was hoping for a import option. Feb 08 19:40:35 import from protel or eagle format. Feb 08 19:43:12 http://www.geda.seul.org/tools/symbols/contrib.html Feb 08 19:44:46 ugh Feb 08 19:45:11 But it doesnt tell you where you can download these newly contributed symbols from. Feb 08 19:45:20 Bah Humbug Feb 08 19:45:44 (I wasnt implying that you should submit your parts btw) Feb 08 19:46:25 its the making of the part that is hard...in the format that they want. Feb 08 19:46:53 http://www.geda.seul.org/docs/current/symbols/symbols.pdf Feb 08 19:46:55 its a PITA. Feb 08 19:47:26 It would probably be easier to write a converter program rather than start from scratch. Feb 08 19:48:48 agreed Feb 08 19:49:47 its almost enough to make me just stay with what I was with earlier. Feb 08 19:50:01 making parts is easy with eagle. Feb 08 19:50:18 well, easier. Feb 08 19:50:22 than this. Feb 08 19:50:57 but I have a feeling that many programs have simpler part management than gschem. Feb 08 19:54:30 happy new year (lunar year). Feb 08 19:54:32 Back later. Feb 08 19:54:37 Eat and be merry now. Feb 08 19:55:03 how long? Feb 08 19:55:17 I'm here working on the board and might need something support. Feb 08 19:55:21 long enough to eat and be merry? Feb 08 19:55:30 might be a few hours Feb 08 19:55:35 okay... Feb 08 19:55:42 these chinese "eat and be merry" festivals tend to last a while. Feb 08 19:55:44 I'll be "all right!!!!" Feb 08 19:56:13 Especially if someone brings the Johnny. Feb 08 19:56:18 (imagine 85 yr old grandma when you can't make it for some family event) Feb 08 20:07:33 In many ways, Linux just isn't there...and given that people tend to like to eat, we may never get closer than a stable OS with some decent major apps... the more obscure ones won't ever get industry's financial support Feb 08 20:08:32 sorta like geda...nice until you really try to do something with it Feb 08 20:09:00 I'm acutally using gEDA...it has its faults but I can work around them. Feb 08 20:12:09 I saw above that y'all were having parts libraries miseries Feb 08 20:13:25 i'm okay with it...been used to using parts in many different prgrams that wern't supported. Feb 08 20:31:13 wb logger. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 23:59:57 2005