**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 19 23:59:56 2005
Apr 20 07:45:38 <prpplague> [g2]: btw, our new arm720t dev board should be available soon
Apr 20 07:49:32 <[g2]> prpplague, that's the $199 one right ?
Apr 20 07:49:38 <prpplague> yea
Apr 20 07:49:47 <prpplague> thats the cpu module and carrier board
Apr 20 07:50:20 <prpplague> [g2]: we are on the last revision of the pcb ( i hope)
Apr 20 08:31:06 <ep1220> Hi; anyone listening ?
Apr 20 08:33:05 <[g2]> what's up ?
Apr 20 08:33:24 <ep1220> I came here from openjtag.net
Apr 20 08:33:35 <[g2]> cool. welcome
Apr 20 08:33:40 <ep1220> anyone working on a JTAG cable using the FTDI chip ?
Apr 20 08:34:12 <[g2]> that's been discussed some
Apr 20 08:34:59 <ep1220> I am currently evaluating possible hardware solutions
Apr 20 08:35:16 <ep1220> Find it hard to estimate how fast the FTDI chip can be
Apr 20 08:35:27 <ep1220> (and do not want to duplicate work ,-)
Apr 20 08:37:07 <[g2]> are you planning on building or buying a board
Apr 20 08:37:26 <ep1220> building
Apr 20 08:37:29 <[g2]> cool
Apr 20 08:37:54 <ep1220> but must be faster than the parallel boards
Apr 20 08:37:57 <[g2]> you know there's a $99 FTDI board that already does it (usb 2.0 to JTAG)
Apr 20 08:38:27 <ep1220> no. Do you have a link ?
Apr 20 08:39:57 <[g2]> http://www.easyfpga.com/
Apr 20 08:40:17 <[g2]> 1MB throughput from the web page
Apr 20 08:40:40 <ep1220> Thanks, I take a look.
Apr 20 08:42:09 <ep1220> 1MB is on USB. the FTDI has 6Mhz max JTAG clock. 
Apr 20 08:42:59 <ep1220> Do You know someone using this board ?
Apr 20 08:47:23 <[g2]> no, but i had looked at it
Apr 20 08:48:56 <JMunakra> ep: I'm interested in that too.
Apr 20 08:48:58 <JMunakra> look here:
Apr 20 08:49:23 <JMunakra> http://jtagpack.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 08:50:45 <JMunakra> g2, what is the model you're referring to? I see only generic FPGA boards
Apr 20 08:52:32 <ep1220> looks cool. I am primarily interested in debugging
Apr 20 08:52:51 <ep1220> he emnt the 
Apr 20 08:52:52 <ep1220> EZNIOSUSB 
Apr 20 08:52:52 <ep1220> He ment the EZNIOSUSB
Apr 20 08:53:34 <JMunakra> Also, those boards are all US$169+
Apr 20 08:53:53 <JMunakra> Oh, I see
Apr 20 08:54:00 <ep1220> I see 99$
Apr 20 08:54:32 <JMunakra> Hm, but do you have to buy software to do the FPGA design?
Apr 20 08:54:38 <JMunakra> Xilinx has free software
Apr 20 08:55:15 <ep1220> No, the FTDI chip has a fixed function
Apr 20 08:55:36 <JMunakra> Oh, the EZNIOSUSB is only a daughter board.
Apr 20 08:55:50 <ep1220> It can convert to serial (like RS232), JTAG and read/wrtei parallel data
Apr 20 08:56:06 <JMunakra> 99$ isn't all you need :)
Apr 20 08:56:26 <ep1220> Datasheet at http://www.ftdichip.com/
Apr 20 08:56:32 <JMunakra> Well, I looked at the FTDI chips a while ago and didn't notice JTAG functionality
Apr 20 08:57:52 <JMunakra> Oh, that chip is brand new
Apr 20 08:57:56 <ep1220> There is a TF232 and now a FT2232C, only later can do JTAG
Apr 20 09:02:28 <ep1220> missing on the board: Level Converter (if You need < 3.3V) 
Apr 20 09:03:19 <ep1220> and cable-adapter to connect to "standard" 16/20 pin JTAG
Apr 20 09:03:42 <[g2]> EZNIOSUSB is $99 US for me ?
Apr 20 09:04:31 <ep1220> I see the same price
Apr 20 09:04:54 <[g2]> I think when we looked, there's a jumper on the board to run powered from the USB
Apr 20 09:05:21 <ep1220> Yes, there is 3.3V regulator powered from USB
Apr 20 09:06:04 <JMunakra> Well, I suppose you don't need the motherboard if you want to use the FTDI jtag mode
Apr 20 09:06:08 <[g2]> I think one my have to change the cabling for ARM, and maybe write a driver for the USB host
Apr 20 09:06:10 <ep1220> agree
Apr 20 09:07:32 <[g2]> ep1220, do you do any FPGA programming ?
Apr 20 09:08:08 <[g2]> the board we were planning on using is the $99 eval board from xilinx. It's got a Spartan 3 on it
Apr 20 09:08:15 <[g2]> and bunches of headers
Apr 20 09:08:18 <ep1220> only small PLDs
Apr 20 09:08:23 <[g2]> that's OK
Apr 20 09:09:12 <JMunakra> g2: do you have a link to the xilinx board?
Apr 20 09:09:20 <[g2]> We sould create a simple parallel cable that does 16-bit moves between a parallel port and the FPGA board
Apr 20 09:09:31 <[g2]> one second
Apr 20 09:10:11 <[g2]> http://www.digilentinc.com/
Apr 20 09:10:12 <JMunakra> I think parallel is crap
Apr 20 09:11:10 <ep1220> I too had problems with emulators (e.g TI) on parallel boards
Apr 20 09:11:21 <ep1220> worked on some mainboards, not on others
Apr 20 09:12:21 <ep1220> g2, why You prefer the do-it-yourself over the FTDI chip ?
Apr 20 09:12:31 <ep1220> price seems the same
Apr 20 09:13:00 <[g2]> well we've planned on doing JTAG debugging at high speed
Apr 20 09:13:26 <[g2]> So the FPGA can go faster and we can download stuff on-board to allow more functionality
Apr 20 09:13:46 <[g2]> also several of us are interested in soft-cores on FGPAs so it's a nice match
Apr 20 09:13:56 <[g2]> it really depends on ones end game
Apr 20 09:14:08 <ep1220> I see
Apr 20 09:14:26 <ep1220> what download speed is Your goal ?
Apr 20 09:14:28 <JMunakra> the best thing would actually be USB for data transfer and FPGA for bit banging
Apr 20 09:16:22 <[g2]> there's a $49 board that plug into the eval board that does USB2.0 and it's avialable now
Apr 20 09:16:24 <JMunakra> Instead of making a parallel adapter for the Xilinx board, why not make a USB adapter? And use a USB soft core. 
Apr 20 09:16:26 <[g2]> I've actually got the hw
Apr 20 09:16:39 <[g2]> both the eval and usb
Apr 20 09:16:42 <[g2]> usb 2.0
Apr 20 09:17:37 <JMunakra> does it plug right into the Spartan-3 board?
Apr 20 09:19:43 <JMunakra> Well, this spartan board is hot anyway. For starters, it can be used with the serial port instead of an hi-speed port.
Apr 20 09:22:23 <ep1220> I see it is based on the Cypress 68013
Apr 20 09:22:45 <ep1220> was looking into this chip
Apr 20 09:23:25 <ep1220> using it to bitbang would give roughly 600-700kbit effective JTAGclock
Apr 20 09:23:40 <ep1220> the xilinx could speed up this a lot
Apr 20 09:29:30 <JMunakra> ep: what kind of project are you working on?
Apr 20 09:30:08 <prpplague> ep1220: have you looked at the ftdi jtag chip?
Apr 20 09:30:47 <JMunakra> prpplague: we just dicussed that one
Apr 20 09:31:10 <prpplague> JMunakra: ahh, ok, i was off line for about 45 minutes due to adsl outage
Apr 20 09:32:00 <JMunakra> Well, we didn't get so far as of which JTAG clock speed could be reached with using it.
Apr 20 09:33:28 <prpplague> JMunakra: i've not looked at the spec in awhile, but based on my tests with it, i got very good performance, around 8mhz operation
Apr 20 09:33:40 <JMunakra> Also, pure JTAG clock isn't everything. Many applications need to read back data before they can issue new JTAG operations. So the read back latency is important.
Apr 20 09:35:58 <prpplague> yea, i just did some limited tests
Apr 20 09:36:41 <prpplague> it seemed to work pretty well, just never did anything with it since we had a wiggler style dongle that we already used for other legacy products
Apr 20 09:37:15 <JMunakra> So you actually built a software to use the FTDI chip?
Apr 20 09:37:44 <prpplague> JMunakra: yea, just some simple stuff
Apr 20 09:38:08 <JMunakra> like what?
Apr 20 09:38:29 <prpplague> JMunakra: nothing major, just enough to do a ident on the cpu, ident the flash via cfi, and then send over a bootloader
Apr 20 09:39:52 <ep1220> Did you program the flash thru the JTAG scan line ?
Apr 20 09:39:58 <ep1220> Or thru the CPU ?
Apr 20 09:40:54 <JMunakra> Did you use th 2232 or the 232?
Apr 20 09:41:29 <prpplague> ep1220: just bitbanging the data and address bus via the jtag 
Apr 20 09:41:34 <prpplague> JMunakra: 2232
Apr 20 09:41:45 <prpplague> JMunakra: http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/2232m.html
Apr 20 09:42:43 <ep1220> I imagine the FTDI is good at this. 
Apr 20 09:42:56 <ep1220> remember Your download rate ?
Apr 20 09:44:03 <prpplague> ep1220: to be honest i never did any quantitative tests, basically we were just looking at program times, and it was about 1/10 the time of a wiggler
Apr 20 09:44:40 <ep1220> this is some progress ;-)
Apr 20 09:44:52 <prpplague> JMunakra: we also purchased one of these and modified it http://www.qualitycables.com/productdetails1.cfm?sku=USBG-232FT-1&cats=106&catid=626%2C106%2C199%2C465
Apr 20 09:46:04 <ep1220> prpplague: you loaded Your custom firmware ?
Apr 20 09:46:05 <JMunakra> What did you do to it?
Apr 20 09:46:43 <prpplague> ep1220: i'm sorry, i'm not sure what you are refering to 
Apr 20 09:46:58 <ep1220> to the USB/serial cable
Apr 20 09:46:58 <prpplague> JMunakra: it has the ftdi 2232 chip
Apr 20 09:47:13 <JMunakra> nifty
Apr 20 09:47:16 <prpplague> JMunakra: we just took out the rs-232 "stuff"
Apr 20 09:47:24 <prpplague> JMunakra: and wired it for jtag
Apr 20 09:47:31 <prpplague> JMunakra: didn't take much
Apr 20 09:48:02 <JMunakra> nice
Apr 20 09:48:06 <ep1220> prppplague: that answered my question as well. 
Apr 20 09:48:07 <ep1220> (thought it was a microcontroller USB/serial solution)
Apr 20 09:48:18 <prpplague> ep1220: no need for custom firmware, its based on the ftdi 2232 so we made some hardware changes on the pcb
Apr 20 09:48:44 <prpplague> ep1220: ahh ok, i'm slow today
Apr 20 09:48:48 <JMunakra> Either that, or you add an external level switcher
Apr 20 09:49:25 <prpplague> JMunakra: yea, its at 3.3 already, so for arm jtag thats ok
Apr 20 09:49:41 <JMunakra> I have some code that work with a regular RS232 port, just with ioctl and stuff. It's pretty slow tho
Apr 20 09:49:44 <prpplague> JMunakra: or atleast the arm boards we have
Apr 20 09:50:22 <JMunakra> But this USB Serial thingy is just what you need, cheap, and almost ready to go
Apr 20 09:50:44 <JMunakra> every Linksys hacker has a level changer board anyway, for the serial port
Apr 20 09:50:45 <prpplague> and does native jtag
Apr 20 09:53:02 <JMunakra> is there any free code for using the 2232 for JTAG?
Apr 20 09:53:48 <ep1220> prpplague: is the programming SW for the FTDI Linux or Windows or ?
Apr 20 09:53:51 <JMunakra> Also, are there other commercial products using it? Maybe even for less than $44?
Apr 20 09:54:38 <prpplague> JMunakra: nothing out there already
Apr 20 09:54:46 <ep1220> prpplague: I mean the software You wrote to progam the Flash
Apr 20 09:55:07 <JMunakra> but that shouldn't be a big deal either
Apr 20 09:55:14 <prpplague> ep1220: oh, linux, we are a linux only shop, however the code we wrote never was released
Apr 20 09:55:58 <prpplague> JMunakra: well the commecial products that use the 2232 seem pretty expensive
Apr 20 09:56:16 <ep1220> prpplague: I saw a WIndows JTAG lib at the FTDI site, but no Linux. Did I miss it there ?
Apr 20 09:56:26 <JMunakra> It's a nice chip with all the functionality FTDI has to offer
Apr 20 09:56:30 <prpplague> JMunakra: we priced out doing a small run of boards with the 2232, and got the price down to around $15
Apr 20 09:56:50 <prpplague> ep1220: you did? hmm, i never noticed one before
Apr 20 09:56:54 * prpplague goes and looks
Apr 20 09:57:46 <JMunakra> prpplague: for the chip alone? But only because of the low volume.
Apr 20 09:58:03 <ep1220> prpplague: http://www.ftdichip.com/Projects/MPSSE/FTCJTAG.htm
Apr 20 09:58:48 <prpplague> JMunakra: for chip+pcb
Apr 20 09:59:21 <prpplague> ep1220: ahh, never noticed that before, however i wasn't looking for winblows stuff
Apr 20 10:00:50 <JMunakra> Hm, how is their API available for *nixes?
Apr 20 10:01:38 <prpplague> JMunakra: well, basically i just used the existing ftdi kernel driver, and did some modifications based on the datasheet
Apr 20 10:02:20 <JMunakra> How is the kernel driver accessed from userland?
Apr 20 10:04:13 <prpplague> JMunakra: the original driver showed up as a serial device node
Apr 20 10:04:42 <prpplague> JMunakra: so i keep that style of interface
Apr 20 10:10:52 <ep1220> prpplague: any plans to release this software ?
Apr 20 10:10:57 <ep1220> prpplague: As You already looked into a PCB: sell such boards ?
Apr 20 10:12:28 <prpplague> ep1220: negative, we are going with a wiggler style
Apr 20 10:14:06 <ep1220> prppplague: For in-house use, or sale to the general public ?
Apr 20 10:15:16 <prpplague> ep1220: in house
Apr 20 10:18:09 <JMunakra> prpplague: is their linux driver open sourced?
Apr 20 10:18:37 <prpplague> JMunakra: "their" are you refering to the ftdi driver?
Apr 20 10:18:42 <JMunakra> yeah
Apr 20 10:20:07 <prpplague> JMunakra: i could not say, the driver that i used was already part of the linux kernel and is GPL'd
Apr 20 10:20:19 <JMunakra> OK
Apr 20 10:21:42 <JMunakra> And where is the MPSSE mode stuff documented? Like, what USB requests you need?
Apr 20 10:23:48 <prpplague> JMunakra: i assume that all of that can be read from the kernel module, there was very little i had to do to modify it
Apr 20 10:29:03 <ep1220> g2: still available ?
Apr 20 10:32:27 <ep1220> In which timezone is the majority of the members on this channel ?
Apr 20 10:32:29 <ep1220> I am in Europe (GMT+2).
Apr 20 10:34:15 <prpplague> i'm gmt+5
Apr 20 10:34:21 <prpplague> sorry 6
Apr 20 10:35:14 <JMunakra> Where's that? India?
Apr 20 10:35:37 <prpplague> barbados
Apr 20 10:36:03 <ep1220> prpplague: Cool place to live/work
Apr 20 10:36:17 <prpplague> ep1220: hehe, not today, its hot hot hot
Apr 20 10:36:23 <JMunakra> talk about offshoring development
Apr 20 10:36:44 <prpplague> hehe
Apr 20 10:36:50 <JMunakra> prpplague: Are you telecommuting?
Apr 20 10:36:53 <ep1220> prpplague: but the sea likely is not that far
Apr 20 10:37:35 <prpplague> ep1220: nope not far at all
Apr 20 10:37:39 <prpplague> JMunakra: yea
Apr 20 10:37:45 <JMunakra> hot damn
Apr 20 10:38:04 <ep1220> prpplague: in your time: when is it best to meet more people on this channel ?
Apr 20 10:38:23 <JMunakra> but then, you're mor likely at -6
Apr 20 10:38:35 <prpplague> ep1220: probably around 8-10pm
Apr 20 10:38:48 <prpplague> JMunakra: yea, i just notice i did a + instead of a -
Apr 20 10:38:58 <prpplague> JMunakra: can't type today
Apr 20 10:39:10 <JMunakra> well enough :)
Apr 20 10:41:47 <ep1220> My goal is a JTAG debugboard wihtout a parallel interface (USB or Network).
Apr 20 10:42:03 <ep1220> I have to leave now, will try again later
Apr 20 10:42:13 <ep1220> been nice to talk to You
Apr 20 10:46:29 <JMunakra> prpplague: There is a lib to access the FTDI from userland. No kernel hacking required.
Apr 20 10:46:38 <JMunakra> http://www.intra2net.com/opensource/ftdi/
Apr 20 10:48:26 <prpplague> JMunakra: lovely
Apr 20 10:48:32 <prpplague> JMunakra: didn't know about that one
Apr 20 10:48:49 <prpplague> JMunakra: we only had a week to do an eval on about 10 different methods
Apr 20 10:49:37 <JMunakra> prpplague: who do you work for again?
Apr 20 10:49:55 <prpplague> www.amltd.com
Apr 20 10:49:58 <JMunakra> oh, the texan company, right?
Apr 20 10:50:00 <JMunakra> yeah
Apr 20 10:50:24 <JMunakra> hah, I can't stop laughing about the drug screen thing
Apr 20 10:50:33 <prpplague> JMunakra: why is that?
Apr 20 10:50:36 <JMunakra> but it's probably popular with american companys?
Apr 20 10:50:50 <prpplague> JMunakra: yea very
Apr 20 10:51:06 <prpplague> JMunakra: i don't think i've ever had a job that didn't require it
Apr 20 10:51:08 <JMunakra> that would be so not possible in germany
Apr 20 10:51:18 <prpplague> JMunakra: oh? why is that?
Apr 20 10:52:27 <JMunakra> I figure that would be covered by privacy considerations
Apr 20 10:52:40 <prpplague> ahh
Apr 20 10:53:12 <JMunakra> It's like, can your employer require an AIDS test from you?
Apr 20 10:53:13 <prpplague> not a big deal for most ppl as most ppl don't use drugs
Apr 20 10:53:42 <prpplague> JMunakra: no, however the argument there is that AIDS doesn't affect your ability to do your job
Apr 20 10:54:29 <JMunakra> Come on. That's ridiculuos. So many things affect that more than drugs
Apr 20 10:54:48 <JMunakra> You can be fired every day if you don't do your job right. So what?
Apr 20 10:55:14 <prpplague> JMunakra: agreed
Apr 20 10:55:23 <prpplague> JMunakra: however its more of a culture thing
Apr 20 10:55:45 <prpplague> JMunakra: EU in general has more liberal attitudes towards drug usage
Apr 20 10:56:03 <JMunakra> i just signed at Apple Computers. I heard nothing about a drug screening there....
Apr 20 10:56:32 <JMunakra> yet, hah
Apr 20 10:56:54 <JMunakra> No, it's more of a "the company owns you" thing IMHO
Apr 20 10:57:13 <prpplague> JMunakra: hehe, i could not say about apple, but i know IBM, HP, TI, and AMD all require screening
Apr 20 10:58:02 <prpplague> JMunakra: hehe, like i said, not a big deal for me as i don't use illegal drugs
Apr 20 12:21:28 <prpplague> wahoo, the bee has arrived
Apr 20 18:02:23 <[g2]> Tiersten, do you program Altera FPGAs ?
Apr 20 18:02:47 <Tiersten> I've got the stuff for it but haven't done for a looooooong time
Apr 20 18:03:10 <dyoung> [g2] got something brewing?
Apr 20 18:03:11 <[g2]> are you not interested in doing that ?
Apr 20 18:03:40 <[g2]> dyoung, you know me, I've always got something brewing :)
Apr 20 18:04:15 <dyoung> Cool.
Apr 20 18:04:22 <dyoung> Dont forget about me!
Apr 20 18:04:31 <dyoung> I'm always looking for "stuff".
Apr 20 18:04:40 <dyoung> to do/play with.
Apr 20 18:05:21 <[g2]> I'll *never* forget about the the MAN dyoung
Apr 20 18:06:32 <dyoung> Cool.  But you know lotta stuff can happen when one completely disappears for 2+ weeks.
Apr 20 18:07:04 <[g2]> you could disappear for 2 year or 2 decades and I'll still remember you
Apr 20 18:07:20 <dyoung> I'm still boggling over the concept.  Joe Laborer in mainland china makes around $6/day .  I mean although the cost of living is lower there... It still boggles my mind.
Apr 20 18:08:14 <[g2]> well I think wired had and article a couple years ago that said the average work earned $200 a year, but saved 33%
Apr 20 18:12:46 <Tiersten> not interested in doing what?
Apr 20 18:14:39 <[g2]> I'd really like to get OpenJTAG rolling for ARM/Xscale
Apr 20 18:14:50 <Tiersten> ah.  yeah.  openjtag has kind of stalled
Apr 20 18:14:57 <Tiersten> I thought we were going to use the FTDI chips?
Apr 20 18:15:02 <Tiersten> what happened about that anyway?
Apr 20 18:15:11 <[g2]> dunno.
Apr 20 18:15:32 <[g2]> I've got a new more expensive and useful idea
Apr 20 18:15:36 <Tiersten> Oh?
Apr 20 18:15:42 <Tiersten> Spill the beans!
Apr 20 18:16:30 <[g2]> http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-nios_eval_1C12.html?f=hp&k=t1
Apr 20 18:17:23 <[g2]> They've got 2 2x10 headers on the board and ethernet
Apr 20 18:17:25 <[g2]> and memory
Apr 20 18:17:30 <dyoung> sorry, the FTDI idea stalling is kind of my fault.
Apr 20 18:17:56 <[g2]> One could connect the 2x10 directly up to the standard 2x10 Arm/Xscale header
Apr 20 18:18:27 <[g2]> We could put the GDB we interface running on the NIOS and talking directly to the FPGA
Apr 20 18:18:35 <[g2]> which controls the JTAG interface
Apr 20 18:18:45 <Tiersten> It's a significant jump however for price
Apr 20 18:19:00 <[g2]> The Abatrons are $2500
Apr 20 18:19:28 <[g2]> and stuff like some SW that runs on top of it is like ANOTHER $2500
Apr 20 18:19:40 <dyoung> Xilinx will be coming out with the new lowpower spartan 3E eval kit soon for $149.  http://www.xilinx.com/products/spartan3e/s3eboards.htm
Apr 20 18:19:58 <dyoung> no NIOS-like processor though.
Apr 20 18:20:08 <Tiersten> One minor thing is that everybody has to get that eval kit
Apr 20 18:20:17 <Tiersten> you can't just make up your own board for cheaper
Apr 20 18:20:51 <dyoung> Heck, even that altera board only has a "eval license" for NIOS.
Apr 20 18:21:00 <Tiersten> Thats what I mean
Apr 20 18:21:16 <Tiersten> I can't remember what exactly the eval one entails I think it might be slightly crippled
Apr 20 18:21:29 <Tiersten> It's def soemthing you can't distribute
Apr 20 18:21:56 <Tiersten> Somebody made a GPL NIOS core but it violated the patents/copyright/whatever from Altera so it was taken down
Apr 20 18:22:38 <[g2]> You can get the EDK/SDK for the NIOS stuff for like $500
Apr 20 18:22:48 <Tiersten> The eval one is time limited
Apr 20 18:22:52 <[g2]> you can spin a raw bit file and distribute it for free
Apr 20 18:22:56 <Tiersten> This is getting expensive fast though
Apr 20 18:23:01 <dyoung> In that case, the xilinx S3E will be cheaper.
Apr 20 18:23:01 <[g2]> once Altera rubber stamps it
Apr 20 18:23:09 <Tiersten> Every dev has to get the eval kit + EDK
Apr 20 18:23:24 <[g2]> no, ppl only need eval kits
Apr 20 18:23:34 <Tiersten> No.  Dev as in the people working on OpenJTAG
Apr 20 18:23:35 <[g2]> one maybe two ppl need the EDK
Apr 20 18:23:50 <[g2]> no, the vast majority of the stuff will be drivers
Apr 20 18:24:00 <Tiersten> I guess...
Apr 20 18:24:07 <[g2]> Host side and on the target board running NIOS
Apr 20 18:24:21 <[g2]> there only needs to be a simple FPGA API
Apr 20 18:24:39 <[g2]> dyoung, the new S3 look interesting
Apr 20 18:26:39 <[g2]> The USB 2.0 Phy+Controller is very interesting
Apr 20 18:30:34 <Tiersten> Isn't the NIOS devkit $1000?
Apr 20 18:30:58 <dyoung> According to the website it is.
Apr 20 18:31:07 <Tiersten> Had a license for one at a previous job
Apr 20 18:31:19 <Tiersten> Ah I know why I remember talking about the EDK in here
Apr 20 18:31:30 <Tiersten> ka6sox wanted to use a microblaze which IS part of the EDK
Apr 20 18:31:38 <dyoung> right.
Apr 20 18:31:55 <Tiersten> [g2]: You need the NIOS devkit not the EDK
Apr 20 18:32:00 <Tiersten> EDK is for MicroBlaze
Apr 20 18:32:30 <Tiersten> ka6sox was looking into it ages ago.  Thats why I remember talking to dyoung and ka6sox about it
Apr 20 18:32:43 <Tiersten> NIOS kit is $1000
Apr 20 18:34:20 <Tiersten> dyoung: You're back now? :)
Apr 20 18:35:00 <[g2]> Tiersten, it's lik $500
Apr 20 18:35:16 <Tiersten> The EDK is $500
Apr 20 18:35:31 <Tiersten> The nios devkit is just under $1000
Apr 20 18:35:44 <Tiersten> EDK is for MicroBlaze
Apr 20 18:36:48 <dyoung> Tiersten, Yeah, I'm back connected now. ;-)
Apr 20 18:36:49 <Tiersten> EDK is Xilinx...
Apr 20 18:36:55 <Tiersten> NIOS is Altera...
Apr 20 18:37:09 <Tiersten> dyoung: Where do you go anyway??
Apr 20 18:37:52 <[g2]> uBlaze is Xilinx
Apr 20 18:37:59 <[g2]> NIOS is Altera
Apr 20 18:38:09 <Tiersten> I know
Apr 20 18:38:17 <Tiersten> Where is the EDK on the Altera site?
Apr 20 18:38:39 <[g2]> Tiersten, you are being pedantic
Apr 20 18:38:47 <Tiersten> Excuse me?
Apr 20 18:39:36 <[g2]> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pedantic
Apr 20 18:39:46 <[g2]> a pedantic attention to details
Apr 20 18:39:49 <Tiersten> Please point out where you can get a $500 EDK
Apr 20 18:39:53 <Tiersten> Apart from the Xilinx one
Apr 20 18:41:26 <[g2]> The devlopment kit is $995
Apr 20 18:41:46 <Tiersten> Fine.  So long as we agree on that
Apr 20 18:41:50 <[g2]> List
Apr 20 18:42:09 <[g2]> I'm told that one can often get the NIOS kit free from the Altera Rep
Apr 20 18:42:29 <dyoung> Tiersten, I came back from Central China. A very interesting place to see.
Apr 20 18:42:39 <[g2]> Altera doesn't want a bunch of support calls, etc.... so for ppl with out a working relationship they often have to pay
Apr 20 18:42:58 <dyoung> "Hey Joe Altera Rep, I'm The Man.  Can you Hook me up with a NIOS License?"
Apr 20 18:43:20 <dyoung> "And by the way, I knonw these other guys that need one too, can we share it?"
Apr 20 18:43:50 <Tiersten> I've gotten free hardware out of Altera but never a totally free software license
Apr 20 18:44:18 <[g2]> have you asked for the NIOS development kit sw ?
Apr 20 18:44:21 <Tiersten> Last place I worked at they had a NIOS site license for 50% off but we bought a load of gear at the same time
Apr 20 18:50:51 <Tiersten> dyoung: What were you doing in central china?
Apr 20 18:52:56 <dyoung> Was on Holiday.
Apr 20 18:53:04 <Tiersten> Nice.  Have a good time?
Apr 20 18:53:11 <dyoung> Its the time of the year for the Peony to bloom.
Apr 20 18:53:21 <dyoung> Yeah, it was pretty interesting.
Apr 20 18:53:46 <Tiersten> Must have been quite isolated?
Apr 20 18:54:14 <dyoung> Some places were pretty out of the way.
Apr 20 18:54:33 <Tiersten> No internet withdrawal symptoms? :)
Apr 20 18:54:39 <Tiersten> Must...have...email....
Apr 20 18:54:41 <dyoung> But with a crazy bus driver, the city is always nearby.
Apr 20 18:54:45 <dyoung> Actually no.
Apr 20 18:54:53 <dyoung> I didnt think about email very much.
Apr 20 18:54:58 <Tiersten> heh
Apr 20 18:55:17 <dyoung> I did think about whether or not ka6sox got this thing working for me or not though.
Apr 20 18:55:25 <dyoung> ~seen ka6sox
Apr 20 18:55:26 <qbot> ka6sox <~ka6sox@ka6sox.nslu2-linux> was last seen on IRC in channel #openjtag, 5d 20h 20m 5s ago, saying: 'rats....'.
Apr 20 18:55:27 <purl> ka6sox <~ka6sox@adsl-69-235-203-64.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #nslu2-linux, 3d 36m 52s ago, saying: 'wherever you are there is a red linksys'.
Apr 20 18:55:36 <Tiersten> He's away until today actually...
Apr 20 18:55:49 <Tiersten> ~seen ka6sox-office
Apr 20 18:55:51 <qbot> ka6sox-office is currently on #openjtag (1d 13h 47m 7s)
Apr 20 18:55:52 <purl> ka6sox-office is currently on #openjtag (1d 13h 47m 5s) #nslu2-linux (1d 13h 47m 5s)
Apr 20 18:55:54 <Tiersten> erm
Apr 20 18:56:02 <dyoung> ~lart qbot
Apr 20 18:56:03 * purl stabs qbot
Apr 20 18:56:03 * qbot stabs dyoung
Apr 20 18:56:04 <Tiersten> that date the last time he said anything or the last time he joined?
Apr 20 18:56:26 <dyoung> I think when he joined.
Apr 20 18:56:28 <Tiersten> but anyway, he said he was going away for a few days and should be getting back today or tomorrow
Apr 20 18:56:29 <dyoung> ~seen dyoung
Apr 20 18:56:31 <purl> dyoung is currently on #openjtag (2h 35m 38s) #nslu2-linux (2h 35m 38s) #oe (2h 35m 38s).  Has said a total of 41 messages.  Is idling for 1s
Apr 20 18:56:31 <qbot> dyoung is currently on #openjtag (2h 35m 38s).  Has said a total of 30 messages.  Is idling for 0s
Apr 20 18:56:39 <Tiersten> yeah
Apr 20 18:56:58 <dyoung> Ok cool, I'l be sure to bug him later then. ;-)
Apr 20 18:58:14 <Tiersten> Yeah.  He said he'll be away until Wednesday so expect to see him around tomorrow I guess
Apr 20 19:58:06 <jacques> dyoung, !!!!!
Apr 20 20:03:22 <jacques> dyoung, I'd like to talk to you when you get a chance
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 20 23:59:56 2005