**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 20 23:59:56 2005 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 21 05:35:20 2005 Apr 21 07:01:25 [g2]: are You there? Apr 21 07:01:38 <[g2]> ep1220, yes I am :) Apr 21 07:01:50 Do You have time to talk Apr 21 07:02:15 <[g2]> sure I'm around for a while, what up ? Apr 21 07:02:35 was looking at the Spartan Board and the USB2 Apr 21 07:02:42 <[g2]> nod. Apr 21 07:02:49 You said You have a USB2, right ? Apr 21 07:02:56 <[g2]> nod. Apr 21 07:03:20 Did they include You the 8051 soureccode for the 68013 ? Apr 21 07:03:30 <[g2]> no. :( Apr 21 07:03:39 too bad. Apr 21 07:03:41 <[g2]> it's on the chip Apr 21 07:04:00 <[g2]> I talked to them about that and they are really interested in releasing it Apr 21 07:04:22 under what conditions ? Apr 21 07:04:24 <[g2]> actually the new platform that dyoung mentioned probably obsoletes this platform some Apr 21 07:07:01 <[g2]> they make hw, they are not really interested in giving away IP used in making that hw nor in becoming a sw co Apr 21 07:07:23 new platform == new Spartan Starter Board ? Apr 21 07:08:52 <[g2]> http://www.xilinx.com/products/spartan3e/s3eboards.htm#ordering Apr 21 07:09:09 <[g2]> http://www.xilinx.com/products/spartan3e/s3eboards.htm#resources Apr 21 07:10:28 I go looking Apr 21 07:14:04 Sounds like the current board (more gates in FPGA?) + USB + network onBoard Apr 21 07:14:49 <[g2]> ep1220, exactly + extra memory 32MB and Flash and same price ($99 + 49 for USB) Apr 21 07:17:15 speaking JTAG: the 68013 is not that fast at bitbanging Apr 21 07:17:17 but the SPartan is a bit overkill for a TAP controller. Apr 21 07:17:49 <[g2]> ep1220, the S3 is, but it's cheap enough Apr 21 07:18:15 <[g2]> I don't have an abatron, but I hear they sell for $2500 US Apr 21 07:18:34 <[g2]> so a $250 board for professional developers is quite the bargin Apr 21 07:19:30 <[g2]> clearly a college kid would have a rough choice (mini IPod or dev kit) Apr 21 07:19:50 <[g2]> but I'm sure the true hackers would pick the right one :) Apr 21 07:20:01 g2, This is a point. Apr 21 07:20:17 You realize You could do JTAG debugging with the USB2 alone, if You can load Your own firmware ? Apr 21 07:20:56 <[g2]> ep1220, I realize you can by a PIC chip or and do this stuff Apr 21 07:21:12 Digilent also has the 68013 in its USB cable (approx. 35$) - that might be the college solution :-) Apr 21 07:21:46 <[g2]> they also have a $19 parallel JTAG cable Apr 21 07:22:13 <[g2]> that's the one that works with OpenWinCE and takes 40+ minutes to dl the 256KB redboot Apr 21 07:23:40 They claim this JTAG cable is up to 10 times faster than the parallel. Apr 21 07:24:20 <[g2]> nod. Apr 21 07:24:24 <[g2]> I'm sure it is Apr 21 07:25:49 that might be worth the extra price (?) Apr 21 07:26:09 <[g2]> the usb ? Apr 21 07:26:19 yes Apr 21 07:26:44 <[g2]> well except for the issue of it only works with xilinx headers yeah Apr 21 07:27:01 <[g2]> but that's a little wrinkle for general purpose use Apr 21 07:27:57 <[g2]> a sufficiently motivated individual could get the dev kit for the 68013 and reprogram the on-board memory to make it general pupose, but it be easier to just reporgram something else Apr 21 07:28:45 I've got the EZUSB devkit already but I agree that it'd be better to just use something else Apr 21 07:28:46 What You mean with "something else" ? Apr 21 07:29:24 <[g2]> something else like the fpga board Apr 21 07:31:45 Whit the FPGA the USB2 can be used "as-is" ? Apr 21 07:34:37 <[g2]> the downloader ? Apr 21 07:34:39 <[g2]> yes Apr 21 07:35:04 <[g2]> It's an enabler for programming their devices Apr 21 07:35:11 <[g2]> 2x the cost 10x the speed Apr 21 07:39:05 Your goal is primarily downloading/programming ? Debugging is less important ? Apr 21 07:40:03 debugging very important Apr 21 07:41:05 Hey ka6sox Apr 21 07:41:56 hey...good morning Apr 21 07:43:06 ka6sox-away: dyoung was looking for you last night Apr 21 07:43:54 I saw that in the logs Apr 21 07:44:00 k Apr 21 07:44:07 thanks! Apr 21 07:44:22 np Apr 21 07:44:40 Nothing eventful seems to have happened whilst you were away Apr 21 07:46:10 better than the whole world falling down! Apr 21 07:46:20 Yeah Apr 21 07:46:22 :) Apr 21 07:49:30 <[g2]> ep1220, longer-term debugging is the key Apr 21 07:50:00 <[g2]> ka6sox-away, wb Apr 21 07:50:12 [g2], thanks. Apr 21 07:50:25 I must have walked 20 miles Apr 21 07:50:49 <[g2]> exercise is good (tm Apr 21 07:50:52 <[g2]> ) Apr 21 07:51:09 g2: looked at the USB2 Ref.Man, there is an API, so coding a stub for a debugger should be possible Apr 21 07:53:00 <[g2]> ep1220, that's a Windows API right ? Apr 21 07:53:29 <[g2]> that works with the Adept sw on Windows correct ? Apr 21 07:55:19 g2: Yes windows. I understand You can send Your own data/messages to the FPGA. Apr 21 07:55:40 g2: (but the Manual is not very detailed, looks more like a sales-brochure) Apr 21 07:56:00 <[g2]> well unfortuatnely I'm pretty much a Linux only user Apr 21 07:56:52 <[g2]> I may break down to run some FPGA tools on Windows, but I've been pretty Windows free for 2+ years and don't expect to be going back anytime soon Apr 21 07:57:07 It shouldn't be too hard to work out the protocol. It can't be anything really complicated. usbsnoop would help Apr 21 07:57:39 [g2]: You got the new webpack from Xilinx? It's Linux as well now. ka6sox has some reservations on how well it works tho Apr 21 07:58:30 <[g2]> Tiersten, no. I've been working on my soldering skills, bootloaders, and native compile environs Apr 21 07:59:11 g2: Think, writing a Linux API is extra work, but no show-stopper Apr 21 07:59:12 <[g2]> however, I'm really stating to get ready to roll on OpenJTAG Apr 21 07:59:51 He said he tried the full blown Linux version ages ago and it did some weird stuff on it generated. It didn't act the same way as the Windows version at all. Apr 21 07:59:55 <[g2]> ep1220, I'll be talking to a guy that I talked to yesterday that programs and ships the 68013 devices Apr 21 08:00:24 <[g2]> I'm sure he can make that generic cable for us with a header on the other end. Apr 21 08:01:01 <[g2]> Then we could start focusing on the just getting the real usb driver to control it running not futzing around with figuring out how something else works Apr 21 08:01:25 g2: You mean the Xilinx/Digilent JTAG USB cable ? Apr 21 08:02:11 <[g2]> it'd be a different cable with a standard 2x10 ARM/Xscale connector or pinout on it Apr 21 08:02:17 <[g2]> not made by Digilent Inc. Apr 21 08:02:23 <[g2]> but very similar Apr 21 08:05:09 g2: sounds interesting Apr 21 08:20:21 Tiersten: Have you tried jelie with your EzUSB board? Apr 21 08:20:25 hey guys Apr 21 08:20:47 <[g2]> hey Apr 21 08:21:05 ep1220: what USB API have you been talking about? Apr 21 08:21:46 Jmunakra: USB/PC to Digilent/Spartan+USB2 Apr 21 08:23:17 So, you mean FTDI API? Apr 21 08:24:34 Jmunakra: no. the Xilinx/Spartan FPGA. Would need to be programmed to work as JTAG-TAP ( a fast one, however) Apr 21 08:24:57 Oh, OK. It has the 68013 Apr 21 08:27:43 Is that an EzUSB family part too? Apr 21 08:27:58 yes Apr 21 08:28:11 How much RAM/ROM does it have? Apr 21 08:29:30 Cmunakra:16K Onchip RAM, no ROM Apr 21 08:29:53 Cmunakra: plus 8x512bytes FIFO for USB Apr 21 08:34:09 Hm, that might not be enough to implement a debugger. Maybe only the bit shifting can be implemented... Apr 21 08:36:02 I tend to favor a FPGA solution also... Apr 21 08:40:23 should be faster. Apr 21 08:40:36 Jmunakra: i am confident a debugger fits in. Apr 21 08:40:48 the Spartan 3e will have USB support. Apr 21 08:40:57 (the demo card here in the US.) Apr 21 08:41:05 $149USD Apr 21 08:45:10 Are there any free IP cores for JTAG controllers yet? Apr 21 08:46:02 <[g2]> there's a JTAG core at opencores but its for the 1200 Apr 21 08:46:21 yeah, that's a DSU (Debug support unit) Apr 21 08:46:39 The TAP part might be useful though Apr 21 08:59:10 * JMunakra wonders whether the sourceforge compile farm could be used to synthesize FPGA designs Apr 21 10:21:20 Hi kas11 Apr 21 10:52:32 hiya ka6sox-office Apr 21 11:07:02 how are you doing Apr 21 11:07:19 (I was in the lab working on something) Apr 21 11:13:31 doing ok here...suffering from a total lack of motivation but otherwise fine...how are things out that way? Apr 21 11:28:06 "interesting" Apr 21 11:31:35 that trumps boring ;) Apr 21 11:34:10 this is in the Chinese proverb sense Apr 21 11:35:23 understood :) Apr 21 11:36:51 everytime I try to get out of this one profession I keep getting dragged back into it kicking and screaming Apr 21 11:39:18 I hope it isn't like me..."friends" bringing by broken, infested Windoze computers for me to fix gratis Apr 21 11:39:48 I guess I don't say ***NO*** with enough authority Apr 21 11:47:37 a loooooong time ago when I started my business I made a policy of NOT taking in Consumer type devices...I didn't have access to the necessary Documentation/Parts. Apr 21 11:47:43 and I just made it a policy Apr 21 11:52:20 well, since I don't have a business, my time is free...just ask anyone who has dragged their cruft in here Apr 21 11:54:03 ask my poor wife who has a 3.5 yr old if she is "free"! Apr 21 11:54:37 I have a computer that is on its 3rd complete rebuild now...an Epox 8rda+ that wedges bios because the owner won't spend the money to buy a decent HSF and case/PSW...this $30 "480 watt PSU" may be a problem Apr 21 11:57:12 I need to move and not leave a forwarding address...if I asked any of those "friends" to help with the move, I know they would all be busy so I won't have to worry about them finding me Apr 21 13:00:03 lol! Apr 21 20:36:43 ka6sox around? Apr 21 21:13:56 um...maybe. Apr 21 21:14:04 dyoung-web: ping Apr 21 21:26:57 dyoung-web: I'm headed home Apr 21 21:27:01 catch you on the flipside **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 21 23:59:56 2005