**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 03 23:59:56 2005 May 04 01:27:33 prpl May 04 01:27:39 i need your help brother May 04 01:27:59 or anyone for that matter May 04 06:50:43 prplll May 04 06:51:05 need jbox help May 04 07:16:03 ka May 04 07:16:08 you know anything about jbox? May 04 07:18:18 jbox? May 04 07:19:18 juicebox May 04 07:20:17 oh yeah... May 04 07:20:41 I think [g2] knows a thing or 2 about them. May 04 07:22:00 thanks man.... May 04 07:22:18 np May 04 13:33:09 [g2]: howdy howdy May 04 13:33:14 [g2]: whats cookin? May 04 13:54:39 <[g2]> hey prpplague I'm heading out, but i'm playing with lots of fun stuff :) May 04 19:39:21 37 mins into a amd64 stage 1 build...a little extra disk space can be a dangerous thing May 04 19:39:55 <[g2]> gentoo ? May 04 19:40:14 uh huh May 04 19:41:40 curiosity overcame laziness May 04 19:43:13 can't have all those bogomips going to waste anyhow May 04 19:44:11 <[g2]> malice, welcome May 04 19:48:19 <[g2]> ka6sox, I saw a sweet AMD64 mobo yesterday May 04 19:49:46 what was it, [g2]? May 04 19:51:41 <[g2]> it was in a shop, I think it was a MSI with the X200 chipset and the 939 socket May 04 19:52:33 <[g2]> Had gigabit, USB, 4 SATA with on board Raid (dunno whether fake or real) $109 US May 04 19:52:34 this one is an Epox 9nda3....running a nice stable 300 mhz main clock May 04 19:53:38 <[g2]> I tried using on of my P4's as a Gigabit NAS and the performance totally SUCKED May 04 19:53:45 <[g2]> I was really surprised May 04 19:54:00 I've read that the ATI boards seem to have RTC problems May 04 19:54:01 <[g2]> I think it was the setup that I had May 04 19:54:43 P4....I've heard the term but never actually experienced it ;) May 04 19:55:49 <[g2]> I had a $25 SATA PCI card and my $27 Gigabit PCI card. May 04 19:56:11 I still haven't gotten around to do the gigE thing...both A64s have gigE built in but I have no idea how they will perform May 04 19:56:17 <[g2]> The Gigabit card was known to do 600Mbs on ttcp throughput May 04 19:56:41 <[g2]> as measured on my lan with ttcp and a 800MB file May 04 19:57:19 I have seen people talk between 600 and 700....if I see a decent 8169 I'll pick it up since J Garzik sez he has had the best luck with them May 04 19:57:22 <[g2]> however, trying to backup with tar over the NFS mount it was only like 40Mbs May 04 19:57:36 NFSv4? May 04 19:57:42 <[g2]> v3 May 04 19:57:56 <[g2]> v4 is still pretty green from what hear May 04 19:58:06 v4 might be better from what I've read May 04 19:58:09 true May 04 19:58:14 <[g2]> Oh... The board supports NCQ on the SATA drives too May 04 19:58:33 <[g2]> well I was looking for *backups* May 04 19:58:42 I need to see what RHE4 is using by default...FC3 is using v4 May 04 19:58:49 well, CentOS... May 04 19:59:08 being too cheap to actually buy an OS May 04 19:59:32 I've been using v3 here myself May 04 19:59:35 <[g2]> The new SATA drive is *totally* kick ass May 04 19:59:47 the last thing I need is nfs problems May 04 20:00:00 <[g2]> do you run much nfs ? May 04 20:00:11 I prolly should qut buying cheap pata drives May 04 20:01:21 all the time....devel files are on Neptune (server) and I mostly compile from Mercury (the other A64) May 04 20:01:45 <[g2]> http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?sort_type=price&masterid=3173558&isbn=&pid= May 04 20:01:59 <[g2]> that's the drive May 04 20:02:07 <[g2]> I got it locally May 04 20:02:15 <[g2]> It's faster that the Raptor May 04 20:02:33 <[g2]> at least according to hdparm May 04 20:05:00 <[g2]> I was measuring 60MBs on the Reads with hdparm May 04 20:05:25 I've seen them at a reasonable price at compusa....but with pata being dirt cheap I haven't gone to sata yet May 04 20:05:57 altho something has to give soon....most boxes around here have 3 HDs already... May 04 20:05:59 <[g2]> cheap is important. May 04 20:06:21 <[g2]> however, time is also something to consider May 04 20:07:16 I'm seeing 47 on the pata here May 04 20:07:38 <[g2]> cool May 04 20:07:48 the 16 mb cache on those is nice too May 04 20:08:05 <[g2]> I'm sure the AMD64 and the bw on the backplane helps alot May 04 20:08:54 uh huh...I'm running on the older asus mb now while gentoo builds on the new board May 04 20:09:38 it is a k8v with a via chipset May 04 20:10:27 the Epox is a nvidia nforce3-250 chipset May 04 20:10:36 I dont have the dexterity to work with SMT stuff anymore. May 04 20:11:12 <[g2]> dyoung-web, I've gotten some good quotes from ppl that do it everyday May 04 20:11:20 * kas11 has hard time handling anything smaller than chocolate chip cookies May 04 20:12:03 <[g2]> these guys even do bga replacement and one has an x-ray machine :) May 04 20:12:07 [g2] I'm hacking a board. The final version should come from the factory with the stuff in the right place with the right values. May 04 20:12:23 Cool. May 04 20:12:37 Its a LOT easier with the right tools. May 04 20:12:49 <[g2]> and if you do it all the time :) May 04 20:13:06 I'm trying to do things out of the scope of my ability. May 04 20:13:08 right. May 04 20:13:18 <[g2]> well that's the only way you learn May 04 20:13:24 Mmm.... Chocolate Chips..... May 04 20:14:08 [g2] can I place a pre-order? May 04 20:14:20 * kas11 handled entire package....CCCs are officially out-of-stock May 04 20:14:22 <[g2]> dyoung-web, what do you want ? May 04 20:14:42 The [g2] IXP 465 Dev Kit. May 04 20:15:04 <[g2]> the 465 is gonna be a little while May 04 20:15:08 oh. May 04 20:15:09 drat. May 04 20:15:26 * kas11 would rather wear a hair shirt May 04 20:15:30 <[g2]> my understanding is the parts are not in full volume production yet May 04 20:15:38 Ok, hows about the Avila with the '425? May 04 20:15:53 ir is it actually cheaper to get a '082 ? May 04 20:16:21 <[g2]> depends on how many minipci slots you need and processor speed May 04 20:17:40 <[g2]> @ $156 the RV 042 with a 425 @ 266 Mhz is a great deal May 04 20:18:17 <[g2]> I'd consider bumping the memory to 64MB or 128MB May 04 20:19:18 <[g2]> how does 64MB sound with the 425 RV042 @ 266 with Serial header, JTAG header and 1 minipci sound ? May 04 20:20:17 <[g2]> don't forget the nice metal case and pretty blink'n lights :) May 04 20:20:20 Woo May 04 20:20:22 Blinky Lights..... May 04 20:21:01 oh yeah, for some reason I was thinking the 042 was sometihng other than a 425; but it was speed that was differnt. duh! May 04 20:21:14 I wanna 082 with 128MB RAM May 04 20:21:32 wow those guys have minipci ??? May 04 20:21:37 <[g2]> jacques, that's very doable May 04 20:21:41 <[g2]> *very* May 04 20:21:50 <[g2]> here's the rub May 04 20:21:53 Maybe I ought to just get a 042 so I can play in the Revvie Sandbox. May 04 20:22:02 <[g2]> the 042 has the do not install of the minipci May 04 20:22:28 jacques, was that engrish [g2] just used? May 04 20:22:29 <[g2]> 082 at 16MB flash and 533 processor and pad for extra memory and flash, but no minipci layout May 04 20:22:52 d`oh May 04 20:23:13 sigh May 04 20:23:21 anyone know how to spell ubuntu (sp?) May 04 20:23:29 <[g2]> ubuntu May 04 20:23:32 you do May 04 20:23:41 purl, ubuntu? May 04 20:23:42 i heard ubuntu is uma distribuicao baseada no debian, livre, que se comprometeu a lancar muitos releases (de 6 em 6 meses). A palavra ubuntu significa 'uma pessoa eh uma pessoa atraves das outras'. Pergunte-me sobre debian-ubuntu. May 04 20:23:48 ah May 04 20:23:58 I tried ubuntu.org and no-go - thanks for the link May 04 20:24:05 ~botsnack May 04 20:24:05 dyoung-web: thanks May 04 20:24:05 :) May 04 20:24:32 <[g2]> jacques, what do you want to do with the 425 ? May 04 20:24:47 yo quiero taco bell May 04 20:25:10 [g2], I want a faster pxa basically May 04 20:25:23 * jacques is eating frozen banana cream pie May 04 20:25:26 damn safeway May 04 20:25:34 <[g2]> the 082 is @ 533 May 04 20:25:42 5 yrs of HS spanish...who sez it was a total waste...but Portugues is incomprehensible May 04 20:25:50 <[g2]> 32MB mem and 16MB flash May 04 20:26:10 [g2]: blah blah blah May 04 20:26:17 <[g2]> beewoolie-akf, wb May 04 20:26:18 [g2]: Did you read the note about the synologics ds101? May 04 20:26:29 It was on the nslu2-linux list. May 04 20:26:29 <[g2]> nope ? May 04 20:26:50 [g2], yeah the 533 drew me to the 082 May 04 20:26:51 It's another SAN box. Looks like it's got more hackables than the slug. Faster, too. May 04 20:26:59 but minipci is a real draw too May 04 20:27:18 And it has minipci solder pads. May 04 20:27:19 <[g2]> beewoolie-akf, that was like a month ago on the list ? May 04 20:27:27 Probably. I'm a bit behind. May 04 20:27:39 <[g2]> yeah I saw that May 04 20:27:55 <[g2]> they aren't too available in the states last I looked May 04 20:28:03 buzbee gave me some high res pics of the ds101 internals. May 04 20:28:22 <[g2]> nod we looked at them and it was a 420 May 04 20:28:28 <[g2]> iirc May 04 20:28:49 Right, a 420; with jtag. I wasnt that impressed. May 04 20:28:52 Both ethernet jacks potentially available. May 04 20:28:59 three USB ports. May 04 20:29:07 And it has IDE inside. May 04 20:29:20 The biggest problem is that it's going for more than $200. May 04 20:29:23 man, this is a *really* interesting conversation, but I am in another one on AIM so I can't really pay attention :-\ May 04 20:29:50 someone told me there were some issues with importing the ds101 here, and the likelyhood of it being widely availble through a us importer was slipping away. May 04 20:30:07 I dont quite remember what the deal with that was though. May 04 20:30:27 Wierd. May 04 20:30:29 stage 1 needs distcc and -j8....geeez May 04 20:30:44 j8. That's some hardare. May 04 20:30:51 <[g2]> it's likely I'll build hw pretty soon May 04 20:30:59 You go dog. May 04 20:31:11 <[g2]> or just buy the IXP425 dev board May 04 20:31:14 did you see the story about the ultra thin clients? May 04 20:31:24 really awesome work. May 04 20:31:25 <[g2]> url ? May 04 20:31:28 ... May 04 20:31:41 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/03/ultra_thin_digital_divide/ May 04 20:31:54 * [g2] like reading the Register May 04 20:31:56 I think that they're missing the big story. May 04 20:32:13 Embed The World. May 04 20:32:22 This is a huge huge massive big scary threat to MS. May 04 20:32:45 Think about high-bandwidth to the home and $75 workstations. May 04 20:32:58 All SW is remote and the user interacts of the net. May 04 20:33:01 is that bigger than super-jimangous ? May 04 20:33:03 ...with the server. May 04 20:33:09 *WAY* bigger. May 04 20:33:19 <[g2]> you can already buy ultra thin clients cheap $250ish May 04 20:33:23 Super Dumper Massively Huge. May 04 20:33:32 DUPER rather. May 04 20:33:33 They're making it cheaper than that. May 04 20:33:52 One of the keys to this tech is taking all of the HW out of the client. May 04 20:33:58 <[g2]> well they're talking about making it cheaper May 04 20:34:04 they've got a FPGA, video ram, and ethernet. May 04 20:34:10 No CPU. May 04 20:34:32 Aha, I was wondering when someone was going to do that. May 04 20:34:33 <[g2]> the $250 box has an AMD NX in it iirc May 04 20:34:41 WAY to big. May 04 20:34:45 <[g2]> plus memory, flash etc .... May 04 20:35:05 I was an early adopter of Thin Clients. May 04 20:35:15 now all collecting dust on a shelf. May 04 20:35:15 They are thinking that they can put a single chip in the chasis of an LCD monitor, give it a couple of USB ports and be done. May 04 20:35:24 dyoung-web: NCD? May 04 20:35:29 HDS. May 04 20:35:37 Didn't use that one. May 04 20:35:53 I used one at my house for a while, but the X server was too slow. May 04 20:36:24 That's the problem with traditional thin clients. There is still some pressure to upgrade if the speed is too low. May 04 20:36:43 <[g2]> http://www.dtresearch.com/prod_webDT166LX.html. May 04 20:36:55 <[g2]> I think these go for about $250 May 04 20:37:01 They're talking about reducing the energy for manufacturing, the power consumption, and the overall waste. May 04 20:37:38 Right. Way more parts in those things than what these people are doing. May 04 20:38:02 <[g2]> beewoolie-akf, FPGAs are ready yet in terms of cost/functionality May 04 20:38:11 For example, they note that it will be even cheaper when they can put the HW inside the monitor because there won't be a VGA port or the corresponding translations. May 04 20:38:12 <[g2]> s/are/aren't May 04 20:38:43 <[g2]> The monitor and the BW are the driving cost factors May 04 20:39:21 <[g2]> at monitor 17-19" is still $150-200 May 04 20:39:30 They didn't talk about that much. I think that some of the SOCs could be good for this, though. Not 128MiB of memory, but more like 1MiB. It's a whole different way to look at it. May 04 20:39:38 <[g2]> wifi can help with the BW but it's still very expensive May 04 20:39:46 Monitors are being recycled as an astonishing rate. They're practically free. May 04 20:40:02 Read the presentation. They talk explicitly about BW. May 04 20:40:44 the M$FT tax is the real showstopper on most of the current things they are pushing now in the 3rd world....seems to be a little profit sharing with the politicos May 04 20:40:45 I don't think they're using a standard protocol for the user presentation. May 04 20:41:26 kas11: they talk a little about that. I also read something recently about how it can be as much as $100 of the system price...the MS tax. May 04 20:42:44 yeppers...the profit motive among banditos seems to be an overriding consideration May 04 20:43:24 where's the fun if Billy doesn't get his cut May 04 20:43:31 It doesn't seem to universal. did you read about the google web accelerator? No direct profit motive there. May 04 20:43:42 Speaking of cut... May 04 20:43:46 Looks like good-will building from where I stand. May 04 20:43:52 have you seen the price of their stock? May 04 20:43:56 Did any of you have a IBM 75GXP that failed? May 04 20:44:22 * kas11 avoided Deathstars May 04 20:44:46 kas11: Whose stock? May 04 20:44:55 Google May 04 20:45:04 Going which way? May 04 20:45:30 up...somewhere north of $200 now... May 04 20:45:46 dyoung-web: Don't know about those. The first hit on google is IBM SUCKS. May 04 20:45:49 it closed ~228. May 04 20:46:10 it is so outrageous that I stopped even watching.... May 04 20:46:11 Most people recognize a good thing when they see it. May 04 20:46:22 okay just wondering because I got this stuff in the mail about a class action settlement for 75GXP's May 04 20:46:46 $100 ea for failed, or 25 blank cds for not failed. May 04 20:46:50 there was an article about the suit on the Inq May 04 20:47:04 Hmm. May 04 20:47:35 I've been sticking with Maxtor/Quantum for a few years. Drives have failed, but they've always made good straight away. Most of the time they're rock solid. May 04 20:47:45 seemed to imply only certain serial #s and had to have proof of purchase May 04 20:47:51 damn, I had four personal deathstars fail May 04 20:48:00 and at work we had 9 out of 10 fail May 04 20:48:34 I have close to 30. almost all failed. May 04 20:48:37 but since I haven't touched an IBM HD with a 10 meter pole in several years, naturally I don't have PoP May 04 20:48:59 hard to understand how they have a 100,000 hr MTBF but will only stand behind them for 1 yr....seems like a disconnect there somewhere May 04 20:49:56 perhaps they are worried about applications where they drives travel at near the speed of light May 04 20:49:58 what I don't understand is how long it took for IBM to admit there was a problem - actually, have they admitted it yet? May 04 20:50:26 tacitly by handing the ball to Hitachi May 04 20:50:30 no, the document says "IBM vigorously denies the allegations" May 04 20:51:19 that's insane May 04 20:52:09 I need a class action lawsuit again Epson...they need to every CX 5400 they ever sold May 04 20:53:03 s/to every/to eat every/ May 04 20:56:13 1hr 56 mins to get from stage 1 to stage 2 May 04 20:57:19 Oh dammit, I'm not in the class! May 04 20:58:42 ? May 04 20:59:08 you don't have a genuine DeathStar, eh? May 04 21:03:32 kas11: What are you working on? May 04 21:03:51 The ones I have/had are excluded. May 04 21:03:59 building Gentoo on an Athlon 64 May 04 21:04:00 dyoung-web: Too old? Those desks seem to shrink every year. May 04 21:04:05 but I might qualify with the 3 I have at home. May 04 21:04:20 kas11: Hmm. 64bit all the way? May 04 21:05:05 <[g2]> nite all May 04 21:05:10 [g2]: nite. May 04 21:05:17 nitey! May 04 21:06:11 that's what I'm building now....I've been mostly running i386 on the older A64 or avoid the warts May 04 21:06:17 niters [g2] May 04 21:09:55 I have 2 A64...a stock Clawhammer 3200+ and a Winchester 3000+ that is slightly overclocked...this is building on the Winchester May 04 21:10:46 New iMac G5.... May 04 21:10:50 * dyoung-web ponders May 04 21:11:25 * kas11 is too poor to do Apple May 04 21:12:16 its nice the new one has GigE May 04 21:12:38 but it makes the "older" ones $400 less. ;-) May 04 21:13:00 * kas11 is too poor to even do 3800+....so she overclocks and tries not to complain about only getting 33% over stock May 04 21:14:27 * jacques just has to wait for his tax refunds to get any new toys. :-( May 04 21:15:19 oh hell. May 04 21:15:21 Tax. May 04 21:15:25 * dyoung-web hides May 04 21:15:32 *lol* tax refund implies income.../me sold older system to finance new May 04 21:16:12 since I only had income for < 1/2 of 2004, I am getting some healthy refunds (state and federal) May 04 21:18:37 I have less than $400 in this one....had a server case/ps and a cnps7000 on hand tho May 04 21:19:34 and I didn't spring for ***reallly*** fast memory...so it isn't really a 4000+ May 04 21:23:25 back later. May 04 21:44:47 rats! May 04 21:45:12 don't like them May 04 21:45:34 :) May 04 21:45:45 'zup? May 04 21:46:02 jes got home...long day...bout u? May 04 21:46:30 doin' fine...waiting on a gentoo build to complete May 04 21:50:26 sweet May 04 21:54:24 I wonder if I can get a patent on "a method for resisiting the effect of gravity"....for lack of a better term I'll call it dirt....the PO seems to grant just about anything asked for...be nice to get a piece of the action every time someone uses my "invention" May 04 21:55:07 :) May 04 21:55:31 maybe a been name would be earth...that has a nice ring to it...I hope M$FT or Amazon hasn't beat me to it May 04 21:55:44 lol **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 04 23:59:56 2005