**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 19 23:59:56 2005 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 20 01:47:09 2005 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 20 01:47:29 2005 Jun 20 12:28:28 <[g2]> ep1220, welcome :) Jun 20 12:28:39 hello Jun 20 12:28:56 <[g2]> You must have felt me thinking about you :) Jun 20 12:29:07 <[g2]> I was looking at CAD software :) Jun 20 12:29:20 for PCB layout ? Jun 20 12:29:22 <[g2]> Eagle from CADSoft Jun 20 12:29:23 <[g2]> nod Jun 20 12:29:58 I looked at it some time ago Jun 20 12:30:15 <[g2]> sparkfun does custom layout for $5 a square inch Jun 20 12:30:32 <[g2]> but it's got to be 2 layer Jun 20 12:30:47 still a good price Jun 20 12:31:03 <[g2]> they also sell the CP2102 Jun 20 12:31:14 what is this Jun 20 12:31:14 used to be $2.50 Jun 20 12:31:27 untilk the abusers Jun 20 12:31:56 abusers? Jun 20 12:32:01 <[g2]> http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=299514&cat=1&itemid=404& Jun 20 12:32:03 I think they will still do $2.50 after your first order once you show you can work within the rules Jun 20 12:32:12 read the forums Jun 20 12:32:55 <[g2]> I think that board would plug right in to the NSLU2 (rx/tx might need to be swapped) Jun 20 12:33:21 seems so. Jun 20 12:33:23 <[g2]> but the part is 3-6 volt compatible Jun 20 12:33:29 <[g2]> and there's Linux drivers Jun 20 12:33:39 <[g2]> plus some eeprom on board Jun 20 12:34:34 datasheet says it works 3 to 3.6V Jun 20 12:35:19 <[g2]> maybe that included the USB side Jun 20 12:35:49 say 3-3.6V when self-powered Jun 20 12:35:55 <[g2]> nod Jun 20 12:36:21 so I'd say You can use the NSLU2's 3.3V at the serial connector Jun 20 12:36:30 <[g2]> exactly Jun 20 12:36:55 <[g2]> the 4 pins from the header can go straight to the 4 pins on the connector Jun 20 12:37:10 neat Jun 20 12:37:15 <[g2]> we really just need a little wire/header and cover Jun 20 12:37:25 <[g2]> for the serial only app Jun 20 12:37:41 <[g2]> I think it'd probably be <$10 to make Jun 20 12:38:56 Do you have price for the chip ? Jun 20 12:39:20 <[g2]> $3.50-70 ? in 1500 piece Jun 20 12:39:53 <[g2]> I think that was on digikey, mouser appeared down Jun 20 12:40:30 <[g2]> mouser still seems unhappy Jun 20 12:41:50 <[g2]> Ok... the CP2102 (recommended for new designs) is $4.02 Q100 Jun 20 12:42:04 <[g2]> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=193700&Site=US&Cat=31786116 Jun 20 12:42:06 if you buy 1500, Sparkfun might go with price, too :-) Jun 20 12:46:04 i think 10-11$ for Q100 seems realistic Jun 20 12:46:44 for parts+ PCB Jun 20 12:48:08 Have You asked SparkFun about a volume discount ? Jun 20 12:50:02 It has a larger buffer than the FTDI. this is a + Jun 20 13:02:29 * [g2] is getting a quote from sparkfun on Q100 pricing now Jun 20 13:02:52 <[g2]> there are Linux drivers too Jun 20 13:02:59 <[g2]> but no JTAG :( Jun 20 13:03:13 <[g2]> and some EEPROM Jun 20 13:04:31 For serial the FTDI has a Linux driver in the kernel (2.6 and higher iirc) Jun 20 13:05:42 that chip is pretty complete, the FTDI needs a lot more external components Jun 20 13:06:00 want to bundle it with your DevKit ? Jun 20 13:10:37 <[g2]> ep1220, it's an idea Jun 20 13:11:32 <[g2]> actually, if there was a mini USB connector on it we might be able to stick it inside the box with a tiny mini USB cut out Jun 20 13:11:42 * [g2] think aloud in the chat room Jun 20 13:12:59 [g2]: btw, I'm building everything now. I'll probably start doing the dev stuff sometime tonight Jun 20 13:13:38 <[g2]> NAiL, cool Jun 20 13:14:12 <[g2]> NAiL, did you mean the FTDI or the Native compile environment Jun 20 13:16:22 Native Jun 20 13:16:36 <[g2]> Ok.. just double checking :) Jun 20 13:21:25 Added a few CP2102's to my shopping list too though ;) Jun 20 14:26:52 [g2] around? Jun 20 15:03:39 [g2]: What's the shortest bootup-time you've seen on the SLUG? Do you know if it's possible to make it boot a bit faster? Jun 20 15:03:57 (Before the kernel, that is) Jun 20 15:58:51 <[g2]> dyoung-zzzz, around ? Jun 20 15:59:44 <[g2]> NAiL, I think the shortest boot time would be from APEX loading the kernel from a parition and a minimal rootfs Jun 20 15:59:59 <[g2]> NAiL, I think the shortest boot time would be from APEX loading the kernel from a partition and a minimal rootfs Jun 20 16:00:28 Didn't notice the typo the first time :P Jun 20 16:00:30 <[g2]> right now boot the kernel from within the jffs2 partition takes around 38 Jun 20 16:00:43 with apex? Jun 20 16:00:46 <[g2]> nod Jun 20 16:01:21 <[g2]> I'd guess that'd be around 18-23/25 loading straight from a partition Jun 20 16:01:28 <[g2]> and a tiny rootfs Jun 20 16:01:35 That much difference? Jun 20 16:02:16 I see I'll have to be jtag-enabled before setting up the AeroSlugs Jun 20 16:02:33 <[g2]> well caching the jffs2 node structure and uncompressing the info take awhile compared to a straight read from NOR Jun 20 16:02:42 ah, yeah, of course Jun 20 16:03:09 <[g2]> I don't know if APEX enables the i cache Jun 20 16:04:08 <[g2]> I'd imagine enabling the i cache and getting agressive with the flash timings, and putting a tiny initramfs at the end of the kernel would be the fastest Jun 20 16:05:38 yeah. I'll need short bootup times on the plane, so I'll try that when we're setting it up Jun 20 16:06:18 <[g2]> NAiL, you probably won't be using the ethernet will you ? Jun 20 16:06:28 <[g2]> on the plane that is Jun 20 16:06:51 I was thinking of using it for heartbeat between slugs, but I could do that some other way. Jun 20 16:07:36 <[g2]> without the ethernet you could have a module less kernel all built in Jun 20 16:08:00 aaah.. that'd reduce it even more Jun 20 16:08:59 <[g2]> especially if you pitched the module loading / dependency scripts Jun 20 16:09:50 I'll probably rip out everything from the initscripts and do a optimized boot Jun 20 16:13:21 hmm... There wouldn't be any problem making a "nullmodemcable" for the slugs, would it? Jun 20 16:13:51 <[g2]> I would'nt think so Jun 20 16:14:27 Then I could use that for heartbeat. Jun 20 16:16:35 yay. NOTE: build 200506202156: completed Jun 20 16:17:23 Starting with packages now. When that finishes I'll try native dev. Jun 20 16:17:32 <[g2]> cool Jun 20 16:17:50 Fortunately, I had the foresight to have 512mb swap :P Jun 20 16:19:53 <[g2]> I run with 186 and 64M ram Jun 20 16:20:06 <[g2]> I think a 256MB and 32 is the same (but less performance) Jun 20 16:20:25 Lucky man. I'd like to fatten my slug as well :) Jun 20 16:21:29 * [g2] needs to verify with 128MB work also Jun 20 16:21:32 <[g2]> and 16MB flash Jun 20 16:22:25 Were you considering upgrading many slugs and selling? Jun 20 16:23:09 <[g2]> yep Jun 20 16:23:27 Cool. Any timescale? Jun 20 16:23:49 <[g2]> the 64MB without JTAG verified are ready to go Jun 20 16:24:15 <[g2]> I've been running about 2 weeks with my 64MB unit very happily Jun 20 16:24:22 hehe Jun 20 16:25:11 <[g2]> I've got a loaner board I *really* need to play with before it goes back Jun 20 16:25:34 <[g2]> 425 dev board with 256MB and 533Mhz I think :0 Jun 20 16:25:42 oooh, nice Jun 20 16:26:28 A couple of 128mb and a couple of 64mb slugs would be nice though. Jun 20 16:27:02 What would the cost be, btw? Jun 20 16:27:02 <[g2]> nod. Jun 20 16:27:17 <[g2]> dunno for the 128 Jun 20 16:27:52 I got an unexpected assignment, so I'll have some "leftovers" to use for stuff like that ;) Jun 20 16:27:53 <[g2]> for the 64's between $150 and $175 US plus shipping Jun 20 16:28:14 For two? Jun 20 16:28:24 <[g2]> heh :) Jun 20 16:28:39 <[g2]> unfortunately for 1 Jun 20 16:28:49 That'd actually be really cheap, come to think of it Jun 20 16:29:07 I bought my first slug for ~$140 Jun 20 16:29:14 <[g2]> it's not bad Jun 20 16:29:22 Think I can get one for ~110 now. Jun 20 16:29:29 <[g2]> US ? Jun 20 16:29:31 yeah Jun 20 16:29:39 <[g2]> 80 at newegg Jun 20 16:29:53 not bad at all Jun 20 16:29:59 <[g2]> the labor on the memory upgrade is expensive Jun 20 16:30:04 <[g2]> it's nearly 100 pins Jun 20 16:30:09 Not surprising Jun 20 16:30:25 It'd take me ages to do, and I'd probably blow it anyways Jun 20 16:30:28 <[g2]> taking off the old parts, cleanup, putting on the new ones spot check Jun 20 16:30:36 <[g2]> you and me both :) Jun 20 16:31:11 <[g2]> It'll be interesting to see what happens Jun 20 16:31:27 With 128mb? Jun 20 16:31:40 <[g2]> even with just the 64Mb units Jun 20 16:32:29 Well.. I hope 64Mb will be enough for the primary slug in AeroSlug. Jun 20 16:32:30 <[g2]> it'll be interesting what the volume is Jun 20 16:32:56 But I think I'll get a 128mb if it works. I'll have a couple of 64mb's anyways Jun 20 16:35:37 haha Jun 20 16:35:42 Brilliant idea. Jun 20 16:36:04 The leds on the slugs will be of no use to me inside the plane Jun 20 16:36:30 But if I can extend them to the wingtips and such, I'll be able to see if a slug fails in mid-air ;) Jun 20 16:37:16 (And I can see when the plane has booted on the airstrip ;) Jun 20 21:08:01 i like jtag :) Jun 20 21:08:08 <[g2]> howdy Jun 20 21:08:18 <[g2]> ep1220 isn't around right now Jun 20 21:08:38 <[g2]> but he's got serial and JTAG working from a single FTDI usb chip Jun 20 21:08:58 FTDI? Jun 20 21:09:03 <[g2]> he's been able to put the IXP420 in reset and load up the mini I cache and then take it out of reset Jun 20 21:09:12 <[g2]> It's a USB-serial chip Jun 20 21:09:22 <[g2]> with multiple endpoints Jun 20 21:09:23 ah cool Jun 20 21:09:59 <[g2]> we've replace the Redboot bootloader with a custom bootloader Jun 20 21:10:24 sweet. gonna add anythign ? Jun 20 21:10:32 <[g2]> it's ARM based but it boots the kernel from within our jffs2 partition Jun 20 21:11:44 <[g2]> inh, which TZ are you in ? Jun 20 21:11:48 pst Jun 20 21:12:09 i jsut work all day anb then go riding.. so im hardly ever on anymore Jun 20 21:12:11 <[g2]> ok ep1220 is probably 10-11 hours ahead of you Jun 20 21:12:29 <[g2]> ok Jun 20 21:12:41 i doubt id have much to contribute Jun 20 21:12:49 <[g2]> motorcycles, bike or horses ? Jun 20 21:12:53 bikes Jun 20 21:13:02 <[g2]> road or mountain Jun 20 21:13:03 motorcycles on occassion Jun 20 21:13:05 both :p Jun 20 21:13:13 <[g2]> good answer Jun 20 21:13:19 ahd a nice freeride mtn bike. got jacked, so i built a cyclocross bike Jun 20 21:13:31 <[g2]> cool Jun 20 21:13:31 if you dont know what that is.. think road bike with dirt tires Jun 20 21:14:06 <[g2]> I hear UT and CO are nice riding in the summer Jun 20 21:14:08 heh... I've got a mtn bike with slicks :P Jun 20 21:14:22 prolly Jun 20 21:14:28 but so is southern ca ;) Jun 20 21:14:51 <[g2]> and the visuals are prolly better :) Jun 20 21:14:59 maybe Jun 20 21:15:16 <[g2]> hey congrats on the SD hack btw Jun 20 21:15:18 all the mountabike magazine shots are shto over hear Jun 20 21:15:24 i ride most of them :p Jun 20 21:15:34 ah thanks. not my hack, but i ported it to version 3 wrt54g Jun 20 21:15:49 <[g2]> what's the V 3 hw look like ? Jun 20 21:15:59 you'd prolly realyl like to talk to the guys that did that one, as theyve done some other cool things Jun 20 21:16:13 <[g2]> I've been outta openwrt for nearly a year Jun 20 21:16:25 its the same, except they used a differnt IC for the eth switch, in fact i htink they ditched the chip altogether Jun 20 21:16:37 <[g2]> nod Jun 20 21:17:03 so i had to find differnt GPIO pins ot use Jun 20 21:17:04 <[g2]> who are the guys that did the original hack ? Jun 20 21:17:10 lemme find a url for ya Jun 20 21:17:22 <[g2]> I saw the one at hack a day Jun 20 21:17:49 yea me too Jun 20 21:17:53 this is the original mod: http://kiel.kool.dk/ Jun 20 21:18:27 <[g2]> nice Jun 20 21:18:38 http://www.duff.dk/wrt54gs/ Jun 20 21:18:41 other stuff Jun 20 21:19:13 they hooked up the vga by usin an fpga to display it. prolly sent serial data to the fpga and then used that to interface vga Jun 20 21:19:26 ask rohde, or rhode, in #wrt54g one day when he pops in Jun 20 21:19:47 <[g2]> did he do the FPGA work ? Jun 20 21:20:48 <[g2]> it's really quite nice having usb 2.0 on the nslu2 :) Jun 20 21:23:43 who makes that? Jun 20 21:24:09 and im sure they did do the fpga work. i dont think itd be that hard.. especially since they only used on color line :p Jun 20 21:24:52 <[g2]> the NSLU2 is made by Linksys Jun 20 21:25:27 cool Jun 20 21:25:40 what is it? like product wise Jun 20 21:25:43 <[g2]> It's kinda like a single port non-wireless GS with 2 USB 2.0 ports for $80US Jun 20 21:26:07 <[g2]> it's original purpose is a Network Attached Storage device Jun 20 21:26:21 <[g2]> just add external disks/flash and ethernet Jun 20 21:26:38 ah yea Jun 20 21:26:41 saw one at walmart :p Jun 20 21:26:56 i have 2 wrt54g's Jun 20 21:26:56 <[g2]> a big problem with the WRT was always storage Jun 20 21:27:12 <[g2]> the NSLU2 and WRT actually make quite the combo Jun 20 21:27:28 sd mod takes care of that :p Jun 20 21:27:32 i hav eno need for storeage tho Jun 20 21:27:35 i jsut mess around Jun 20 21:27:41 connected my gps to it Jun 20 21:27:53 <[g2]> the SD hack is realy cool Jun 20 21:28:11 no doubt. thats why i was determined to get it working on my v3 Jun 20 21:28:32 <[g2]> godspeed Jun 20 21:29:31 <[g2]> well time for a little sleep Jun 20 21:29:39 <[g2]> tc and nice chatting **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 20 23:59:56 2005