**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 08 23:59:56 2005
Jul 09 02:59:09 <JMunakra> ep1220: What about the EZNIOSUSB? is that one compatible with 3.3V ?
Jul 09 03:00:00 <ubeman-zzzz> It should be.
Jul 09 03:00:20 <ubeman-zzzz> I seem to remember inspecting that schematic a few month ago
Jul 09 03:01:26 <JMunakra> I see no level changer circuitry, but there is a 3.3V regulator
Jul 09 03:01:44 <JMunakra> Does the 2232 need 3.3 V externally regulated?
Jul 09 03:05:48 <ubeman-zzzz> pin 3,42 VCC +4.35 - 5.25V Vcc for device core
Jul 09 03:06:07 <ubeman-zzzz> there is a convenience 3v3 out too
Jul 09 03:06:36 <ubeman-zzzz> Oh, I think my penance is up, you probably dont reconize this nick.
Jul 09 03:13:22 <JMunakra> Hm, looks like the chip can be configured to do either 3.3 or 5 V for I/O
Jul 09 03:17:57 <dyoung> on 2 ports, theres a vccio for both a and b
Jul 09 03:26:50 <ep1220> Jmunakra: Yes, EZNIOUSB is 3.3V
Jul 09 03:27:44 <JMunakra> and so should be the DLP-2232M
Jul 09 03:28:11 <ep1220> the DLP-2232M does not have a voltage regualarot on board.
Jul 09 03:28:19 <ep1220> You have to add it externally
Jul 09 03:28:30 <JMunakra> So you have an external 3.3V regulator to support your chip
Jul 09 03:28:36 <ep1220> Yes.
Jul 09 03:28:42 <JMunakra> OK, got it
Jul 09 03:29:17 <JMunakra> is there other boards that might be suitable for development?
Jul 09 03:29:55 <dyoung> the DLP looks nice.  
Jul 09 03:29:57 <ep1220> With 2232M, I am not aware of any other
Jul 09 03:30:20 <dyoung> the DLP is the cheapest method.
Jul 09 03:30:27 <ep1220> DLP is nice, but You need to add more parts
Jul 09 03:30:44 <dyoung> Theres a dual serial port adapter with a 2232 in it, but its $80.
Jul 09 03:30:57 <ep1220> JMunakra: where did You see the DLPM at 19$
Jul 09 03:30:58 <dyoung> ep1220, not too much extra stuff though right?
Jul 09 03:31:30 <JMunakra> at the FTDI site when you click "Buy online"
Jul 09 03:31:54 <JMunakra> dyoung: do you have the link to that serial adapter
Jul 09 03:32:12 <ep1220> JMunakra; this are UKP not USD
Jul 09 03:32:23 <JMunakra> Oh :)
Jul 09 03:32:29 <ep1220> Is approx 35USD
Jul 09 03:32:48 <dyoung> the dlp: http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=560644&e_categoryid=284&e_pcodeid=62602
Jul 09 03:33:25 <ep1220> dyoung: what You need to add depends on what You want to do.
Jul 09 03:34:07 <ep1220> If You only want to do FLASH programming thru the JTAG scan-chain all U need is a 3.3V regulator (plus capacitors)
Jul 09 03:34:11 <dyoung> Hmm, the serial adapter is $40 now; I guess I was imagining things.
Jul 09 03:34:32 <dyoung> ... or pilfer the 3.3V from the DUT..
Jul 09 03:34:41 <dyoung> http://www.usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=XC-232-C&cats=199&catid=626%2C106%2C199%2C465
Jul 09 03:34:53 <ep1220> The 3.3C on-chip can only be laoded with a few mA
Jul 09 03:35:01 <ep1220> Not enough to drive VCCIO
Jul 09 03:35:18 <dyoung> oh, I meant the real DUT.
Jul 09 03:35:23 <dyoung> like a nslu2 for instance...
Jul 09 03:35:31 <ep1220> Taking 3.3V from DUT has following problem:
Jul 09 03:35:48 <ep1220> the 2232C needs VCCinternal and VCCIO from same source
Jul 09 03:36:10 <ep1220> e.g it does not like having internal power from USB and VCCIO unpowered
Jul 09 03:36:45 <JMunakra> dyoung, how do you know it has the 2232C in it?
Jul 09 03:37:07 <dyoung> I think thats the one that prpplague looked at.
Jul 09 03:37:31 <dyoung> I msyelf am not positive it has it.
Jul 09 03:37:47 <dyoung> I saw one at the store that looks similar that does though.
Jul 09 03:39:26 <ep1220> Still, You have to open these devices and add JTAG cabling, disable/remove the RS232 level converter, ..
Jul 09 03:40:04 <ep1220> I guess you do not come away cheaper than with the DLP2232M
Jul 09 03:40:05 <JMunakra> change the EPROM
Jul 09 03:40:15 <ep1220> THis is easy. SW only
Jul 09 03:40:28 <dyoung> ep1220, exactly.  Thats why I like the dlp !
Jul 09 03:41:09 <ep1220> One could think of making a small PCB to take the DLPM + other parts
Jul 09 03:41:27 <dyoung> thts actually the current plan...
Jul 09 03:41:41 <JMunakra> The ideal thing for us would be a commercial product with a connector where only a matching cable needs to be made.
Jul 09 03:41:59 <ep1220> JMunakra: this does not exist.
Jul 09 03:42:20 <ep1220> Though I heard there are JTAG emulators using this chip (500$+)
Jul 09 03:42:44 <JMunakra> We could use their software :)
Jul 09 03:43:08 <dyoung> the openjtag board that the dlp2232 plugs into should be cheap.
Jul 09 03:43:48 <ep1220> I routed what I have and asked for a quote.
Jul 09 03:43:52 <JMunakra> If we had a JTAG software that supports more than just the slug, this thing could quickly become big
Jul 09 03:44:12 <ep1220> Setup fee 50EUR, plus 7EUR per board
Jul 09 03:45:10 <ep1220> (in Q10)
Jul 09 03:45:27 <ep1220> JMunakra: Writing this SW is a lot of work
Jul 09 03:45:54 <JMunakra> ep1220, I have a working ARM debugger
Jul 09 03:46:19 <JMunakra> and there is a MIPS module, but I haven't tested it
Jul 09 03:46:42 <ep1220> JMunakra: JtagPack ?
Jul 09 03:46:49 <JMunakra> jtagpack.sourceforge.net
Jul 09 03:46:56 <ep1220> I looked at it:
Jul 09 03:47:06 <dyoung> It ought to be easy enough to have "personality modules" to make it work for lots of targets
Jul 09 03:47:09 <ep1220> Most files are copyright by a Japanese guy
Jul 09 03:47:19 <JMunakra> go and make a driver for 2232C for it and try, it shouldn't take more than a day now that you have the code
Jul 09 03:47:37 <JMunakra> Copyrighted, but they're GPL
Jul 09 03:47:45 <ep1220> You saw: http://www.nahitech.com/jtag-en/license.html
Jul 09 03:47:57 <ep1220> There he says it is not GPL
Jul 09 03:48:30 <JMunakra> Oh yeah, he switched license. The files I got were released under GPL.
Jul 09 03:49:00 <ep1220> JMunakra: Now if he claims someone else has added the GPL lines ? Not that I believe you did this !!!
Jul 09 03:49:36 <JMunakra> I don't believe that's a big threat.
Jul 09 03:49:53 <JMunakra> I have his original packages, and copies of his old web sites.
Jul 09 03:50:12 <JMunakra> And even if I didn't...
Jul 09 03:50:40 <JMunakra> If he were to do anything about it, we could still dump his code and use the IP we produced so far. 
Jul 09 03:51:59 <JMunakra> Anyway, I don't think he's doing a debugger right now.
Jul 09 03:52:27 <JMunakra> oh, yeah, he is :)
Jul 09 03:54:16 <JMunakra> dyoung: jtagpack is very modular. You need <500 lines of code to add a new hardware (bit shift level)
Jul 09 03:54:43 <ep1220> JMunakra: the DLP-2232C is not good at bitshift level.
Jul 09 03:54:49 <ep1220> There it is very slow.
Jul 09 03:54:55 <JMunakra> what else do you do with it?
Jul 09 03:55:56 <dyoung> MPSSE...
Jul 09 03:56:03 <ep1220> With bitShift level I mean. Your API is like  setTMS(), SetTDO(), toggleTCK()  
Jul 09 03:56:15 <ep1220> You refer to the same thing ?
Jul 09 03:57:01 <ep1220> For the 2232 your API is  writeIR(), writeDR(), ...
Jul 09 03:57:40 <JMunakra> it knows about the TAP state machine?
Jul 09 03:57:44 <JMunakra> that's great!
Jul 09 03:57:54 <ep1220> No it does not.
Jul 09 03:58:20 <JMunakra> If you say writeIR(), the stae machine has to change.
Jul 09 03:58:28 <JMunakra> how is that done?
Jul 09 03:59:01 <ep1220> Yes, but this is done in SW. Yu send a combination of commands and bitstrings over USB
Jul 09 03:59:38 <JMunakra> Anyway, the jtagpack API is basically TAPSetState(), shiftInOut(). 
Jul 09 04:00:27 <JMunakra> so that should go together easyly. 
Jul 09 04:02:10 <ep1220> That abstraction layer fits better
Jul 09 04:02:36 <dyoung-zzzz> night all
Jul 09 04:02:52 <JMunakra> nighty-night
Jul 09 04:04:25 <ep1220> JMunakra: First i must finish the Linux Port of my library, anyway
Jul 09 04:04:47 <JMunakra> What does your lib do?
Jul 09 04:05:27 <ep1220> implement commands like: WriteIR(), ReadDR(), WriteReadDR(), ..
Jul 09 04:05:57 <ep1220> Then I have a few XSCALE specific higher level routines
Jul 09 04:06:14 <ep1220> Like: Read Xscale DBGTX register, ..
Jul 09 04:06:52 <JMunakra> jtagpack utilizes a bitmask to indicate which bits need to be read
Jul 09 04:07:38 <JMunakra> the xscale functions would go into a higher abstraction level in jtagpack, over the core, while the bitshift is below the core
Jul 09 04:08:31 <ep1220> I will take another look at it.
Jul 09 04:08:46 <JMunakra> the core (libjtag) abstracts away the physical chain (multiple chained chips etc.)
Jul 09 04:09:32 <ep1220> I looked at it once, and saw it does a much better job at abstraction then OpenWince
Jul 09 04:10:07 <ep1220> Still I prefer to have a core independent of jtagpack.
Jul 09 04:10:31 <JMunakra> Are you going to release your source?
Jul 09 04:10:45 <ep1220> And maybe have another layer to fit it to jtagpack (so it can be separated easily if needed)
Jul 09 04:10:50 <ep1220> Yes
Jul 09 04:11:14 <JMunakra> that should be easy
Jul 09 04:11:39 <ep1220> I also have a faster JTAG HW  in planning
Jul 09 04:11:52 <ep1220> and want to make sure that one drops in easily :-)
Jul 09 04:12:09 <JMunakra> do you use the open source libftdi?
Jul 09 04:12:30 <ep1220> I have it, and use it as a reference.
Jul 09 04:12:40 <ep1220> I started with the FTDI API on Windows.
Jul 09 04:12:42 <JMunakra> libusb?
Jul 09 04:12:53 <JMunakra> is your code portable?
Jul 09 04:13:15 <ep1220> And now I am implementing the (neede) functions from their library for Linus over libusb
Jul 09 04:13:21 <ep1220> s/linus/Linux
Jul 09 04:13:50 <ep1220> I want Win + Linux
Jul 09 04:14:05 <JMunakra> I want Mac OS X
Jul 09 04:14:15 <JMunakra> and Linux
Jul 09 04:14:27 <ep1220> You have gcc on Mac OS X, right ?
Jul 09 04:14:33 <JMunakra> yeah
Jul 09 04:14:40 <JMunakra> and libusb
Jul 09 04:14:48 <ep1220> This is all You need-
Jul 09 04:15:05 <JMunakra> jtagpack is also autotoolized.
Jul 09 04:15:38 <ep1220> I have no experience with the autoconfig and co on Linux.
Jul 09 04:15:51 <ep1220> I will leave this part to other people 
Jul 09 04:17:11 <ep1220> but until other people do have 2232C based compatible HW, it will not  be of much use anyway
Jul 09 04:18:28 <ep1220> What target do You use for You work on jtagpack ?
Jul 09 04:18:38 <JMunakra> ARM7TDMI
Jul 09 04:18:50 <ep1220> evaluation board ?
Jul 09 04:19:19 <JMunakra> no, a board we made for a product at my company
Jul 09 04:20:05 <ep1220> You are a HW engineer ?
Jul 09 04:20:31 <JMunakra> hm, usually the target powers the JTAG hardware, but do you say, in the FTDI case the JTAG hardware needs to power the target?
Jul 09 04:20:35 <JMunakra> no, SW
Jul 09 04:21:16 <ep1220> For most commercial devices the target only powers the Level-shifters of the JTAG hardware
Jul 09 04:21:35 <ep1220> With the FTDI there is no power connection between target and probe
Jul 09 04:21:41 <JMunakra> Yeah, but since we don't have level shifters
Jul 09 04:21:45 <ep1220> (except for GND)
Jul 09 04:22:20 <JMunakra> OK, so the target doesn't need to be powered by the probe.
Jul 09 04:22:54 <ep1220> Yes. however this leaves some issues when the probe is powered and the target not (or vice-cversa)
Jul 09 04:23:09 <JMunakra>     ep1220: Taking 3.3V from DUT has following problem:
Jul 09 04:23:09 <JMunakra>     ep1220: the 2232C needs VCCinternal and VCCIO from same source
Jul 09 04:23:28 <ep1220> yes
Jul 09 04:24:25 <JMunakra> Oh, but the IO pins don't need to be supplied from VCCIO. I get it.
Jul 09 04:25:02 <JMunakra> so when the target is now powered?
Jul 09 04:25:11 <JMunakra> I don't see the problem
Jul 09 04:25:46 <ep1220> If only one device is powered, the other is backdriven -> this can damage the IO drivers
Jul 09 04:27:13 <JMunakra> Hm, shouldn't an input be high-z? also when the device is not powered?
Jul 09 04:28:42 <ep1220> You know how a diode works ?
Jul 09 04:28:55 <JMunakra> yeah :)
Jul 09 04:29:18 <ep1220> Asume You have a diode backwards biased from the IO-pin to the VCC pin
Jul 09 04:29:49 <ep1220> Normally this one does not have current flowing thru it
Jul 09 04:30:06 <ep1220> as VCC is larger than the level at the IO pin.
Jul 09 04:30:14 <JMunakra> or the same
Jul 09 04:30:26 <JMunakra> Oh, I see
Jul 09 04:30:37 <ep1220> Now the device is powered off, so VCC is at GND.
Jul 09 04:30:40 <JMunakra> and the diode is there for what?
Jul 09 04:31:04 <JMunakra> to protect the IO?
Jul 09 04:31:12 <ep1220> e.g.
Jul 09 04:31:27 <ep1220> but it can just be a "byproduct" of the design.
Jul 09 04:31:35 <ep1220> E.g. with TTL
Jul 09 04:31:40 <JMunakra> Is that a general problem in circuit design?
Jul 09 04:31:46 <ep1220> Yes.
Jul 09 04:31:59 <JMunakra> OK
Jul 09 04:32:12 <ep1220> You have to design output stages to be immune to back-driving
Jul 09 04:32:18 <JMunakra> so we would be better off if we provided a level changer
Jul 09 04:32:47 <ep1220> Yes, but one which is designed with this in mind.
Jul 09 04:32:50 <JMunakra> but I'm sure you designed that in as an option already :)
Jul 09 04:34:00 <ep1220> This is primarily a matter of cost and what You expect.
Jul 09 04:34:20 <ep1220> E.g. if i debug a NSLU (70EUR value) i might no care much.
Jul 09 04:34:46 <ep1220> If this were my only prototype (2 weeks to replace it) I'd think differently.
Jul 09 04:35:22 <ep1220> So far there was no conclusion here what features an openjtag HW should support.
Jul 09 04:35:33 <ep1220> What performance is expected, ...
Jul 09 04:35:44 <ep1220> At which price
Jul 09 04:36:28 <JMunakra> It would be good to have the option, so it can compete with a commercial product
Jul 09 04:37:03 <JMunakra> Of course, hackers will want to save the money, but we should have a broad adoption in mind.
Jul 09 04:38:24 <ep1220> If You make it an option it adds to cost.
Jul 09 04:38:41 <ep1220> i.e. more than when it is "mandatory"
Jul 09 04:39:42 <JMunakra> I mean in the sense of a stuffing option
Jul 09 04:40:03 <JMunakra> the board will be a tad bigger, but...
Jul 09 04:40:56 <ep1220> but then You make 2 boards = more work, 2x setup cost ...
Jul 09 04:41:10 <JMunakra> why 2 boards?
Jul 09 04:41:29 <ep1220> You das "will be a tad bigger"
Jul 09 04:42:01 <ep1220> Actually the shifters are not that expensive.
Jul 09 04:42:18 <ep1220> but hard to get in small numbers
Jul 09 04:43:57 <JMunakra> alright
Jul 09 06:20:12 <[g2]> ep1220, morning
Jul 09 06:20:38 <ep1220> morning g2
Jul 09 06:21:01 <[g2]> you had a nice chat with JMunakra yesterday :)
Jul 09 06:22:27 <ep1220> You mean 4 hours ago ?
Jul 09 06:26:43 <[g2]> yes :)
Jul 09 06:27:36 <ep1220> was nice
Jul 09 06:32:57 <[g2]> I'm gonna be making boards soon
Jul 09 06:33:01 <[g2]> CPU boards
Jul 09 06:33:09 <ep1220> XScale ?
Jul 09 06:33:13 <[g2]> :)
Jul 09 06:33:17 <[g2]> IXP422
Jul 09 06:33:24 <ep1220> :-)
Jul 09 06:33:43 <ep1220> that one has encryption unit, right ?
Jul 09 06:33:44 <[g2]> Ok... I'm not *making* the boards, I'm having an OEM make them for me
Jul 09 06:33:52 <[g2]> yes
Jul 09 06:34:03 <ep1220> which interfaces ?
Jul 09 06:34:17 <[g2]> interfaces ?
Jul 09 06:34:26 <[g2]> you mean what's on the boards ?
Jul 09 06:34:31 <ep1220> yes
Jul 09 06:35:08 <[g2]> 2 ethernet, serial, JTAG, miniPCI, CF, 64MB memory, + extras
Jul 09 06:35:40 <[g2]> metal case 
Jul 09 06:35:59 <ep1220> sounds good.
Jul 09 06:36:12 <[g2]> we'll see
Jul 09 06:36:24 <[g2]> I'm excited and nervous about it
Jul 09 06:36:34 <ep1220> I can feel with You.
Jul 09 06:36:50 <ep1220> How many do You have to buy ?
Jul 09 06:36:55 <[g2]> 200
Jul 09 06:38:30 <ep1220> Plan to sell them as development kits ?
Jul 09 06:38:48 <[g2]> yes and LAMP/e-mail/other stuff
Jul 09 06:39:06 <ep1220> Does it have harddisk IF onboard ?
Jul 09 06:39:29 <[g2]> no. the CF + 2 USB 2.0 ports
Jul 09 06:39:43 <ep1220> external PSU I asume.
Jul 09 06:39:49 <[g2]> nod
Jul 09 06:40:24 <[g2]> Target price is $249 US for all but the CF which will probably be sized but what ppl want on it
Jul 09 06:40:44 <[g2]> that includes case and ps
Jul 09 06:42:04 <ep1220> Does it have a boot FLASH ? or boot from CF ?
Jul 09 06:43:04 <[g2]> tiny boot flash to load from CF
Jul 09 06:43:35 <ep1220> You already have setup Your webshop ?
Jul 09 06:43:43 <[g2]> from a cost perspective I think thats better and more useful than a fixed 8MB NOR flash
Jul 09 06:44:09 <[g2]> I've got Apache 2.0 and PHP5 running on my slug :)
Jul 09 06:44:15 <ep1220> I do not have Flash prices in my head.
Jul 09 06:44:15 <[g2]> with ssl
Jul 09 06:44:38 <[g2]> I'll need to setup some pages and full specifications
Jul 09 06:45:21 <[g2]> I'll be launching in the next week or two
Jul 09 06:45:55 <ep1220> Would be great if the PSU delivers enough power for a USB powered HD.
Jul 09 06:47:06 <[g2]> :)
Jul 09 06:47:44 <ep1220> The CPU is at 266MHz ?
Jul 09 06:47:44 <[g2]> I think high-powered usb devices are .5A @ 5V right ?
Jul 09 06:47:48 <[g2]> nod.
Jul 09 06:48:05 <[g2]> we couild do 533, but again cost
Jul 09 06:48:19 <ep1220> Yes. 500mA (is also what USB housings for 2.5 drives are rated)
Jul 09 06:49:09 <[g2]> I think after having some devices out in the market (with some success) future builds could support that faster processor
Jul 09 06:49:36 <ep1220> nod
Jul 09 06:50:01 <[g2]> I don't know whether it'll be well received or a big yawn
Jul 09 06:50:31 <ep1220> Hard to say.
Jul 09 06:50:43 <[g2]> sure is
Jul 09 06:51:49 <ep1220> I was thinking about a similar device for the SOHO market.
Jul 09 06:52:04 <ep1220> there You might well be sucessfull.
Jul 09 06:52:27 <[g2]> that's the market for the web server / e-mail server I was thinking of
Jul 09 06:53:35 <ep1220> Do U have it FCC certified ?
Jul 09 06:54:00 <[g2]> it'll have full compliance
Jul 09 06:54:04 <[g2]> FCC, CE, etc...
Jul 09 06:54:22 <ep1220> the OEM does the certification ?
Jul 09 06:54:50 <[g2]> it costs
Jul 09 06:55:01 <ep1220> I know :-(
Jul 09 06:55:14 <Tiersten> Don't know about FCC but you can self certify for CE
Jul 09 06:55:36 <Tiersten> Just woe betide you if you say it is compliant and then somebody finds out it isn't...
Jul 09 06:55:53 <ep1220> but You might have to show measurements ..
Jul 09 06:56:15 <Tiersten> You're supposed to have measurements but you don't have to file them anywhere first
Jul 09 06:56:21 <ep1220> true
Jul 09 06:56:46 <Tiersten> so if you're really on a budget you can just hope it's compliant and only get the measurements done if there are challenges.  living life really on the edge then
Jul 09 06:57:17 <[g2]> It's not *that* expensive
Jul 09 06:57:19 <Tiersten> I know a couple of people that have done that.  They've designed it to be compliant to the best of their knowledge and just self certified it
Jul 09 06:57:39 <Tiersten> For one thing it's not but you're supposed to do it for every revision and model
Jul 09 06:57:49 <Tiersten> that can add up quickly
Jul 09 06:58:03 <Tiersten> or maybe it's just I know a lot of real cheapskate people :)
Jul 09 06:58:36 <ep1220> I guess, You put it besides Your TV set - and if it does not harm receiption Your customers likely will not complain :-)
Jul 09 06:58:36 <[g2]> well certainly for a spin  you can just get some lab time and do your own measurements
Jul 09 06:58:47 <Tiersten> yep
Jul 09 06:59:09 <[g2]> but having the first design checked out makes a bunch of sense
Jul 09 06:59:14 <Tiersten> Renting the gear/lab and doing it yourself is the cheapest method
Jul 09 06:59:42 <[g2]> except for the "doing it yourself" that's what's being done
Jul 09 06:59:48 <Tiersten> yeah
Jul 09 07:00:49 <Tiersten> Assuming you follow good practices and it's in a case, it's unlikely to fail anyway
Jul 09 07:00:58 <[g2]> nod.
Jul 09 07:04:47 <Tiersten> Getting a little distribution made up that does VPN or acts like a AP should help the popularity of it
Jul 09 07:06:33 <[g2]> Tiersten, VPN is a possibility, I'd convert the RV082 with firmware first
Jul 09 07:06:57 <[g2]> unless logging was required in which case it's a toss-up
Jul 09 07:07:19 <[g2]> A transparent bridge / logger will be an option though
Jul 09 07:07:45 <[g2]> I think the RV082 has the 533Mhz 425 and 16MB flash
Jul 09 07:08:03 <[g2]> same basic price point $250-260 US
Jul 09 07:08:19 <[g2]> Plus 8 extra ethernets
Jul 09 07:10:04 <Tiersten> Just having something people can load and then play I mean
Jul 09 07:10:08 <[g2]> I chrooted into statically built nslu2 recovery partition
Jul 09 07:10:25 <[g2]> that's the whole point
Jul 09 07:10:45 <[g2]> I'm hoping I don't totally lose my shirt/pants/etc....
Jul 09 07:10:55 <[g2]> socks
Jul 09 07:11:18 <[g2]> I think it makes total sense, but time will tell
Jul 09 07:11:59 <Tiersten> The CF, it in IDE mode?
Jul 09 07:12:14 <[g2]> think so
Jul 09 07:16:21 <rwhitby> [g2]: will the case stand vertically?
Jul 09 07:16:35 <[g2]> for you it will
Jul 09 07:16:39 <Tiersten> heh
Jul 09 08:36:47 <JMunakra> hi g2
Jul 09 08:39:08 <[g2]> hey jacques 
Jul 09 08:39:11 <[g2]> doh!
Jul 09 08:39:13 <[g2]> hey JMunakra 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 09 23:59:56 2005