**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 31 02:59:56 2006
Jan 31 04:06:59 <lennert> pong?
Jan 31 13:50:33 <ka6sox-office> lennert, ping
Jan 31 13:54:44 <lennert> pong
Jan 31 13:55:08 <ka6sox-office> for inverted signals on a UCF what notation do you use?
Jan 31 13:55:29 <lennert> i don't
Jan 31 13:55:40 <lennert> i asked you this question a while ago and you said there was a way.. but i've yet to hear it :)
Jan 31 13:55:45 <ka6sox-office> okay so if we used RESETn
Jan 31 13:55:50 <lennert> oh, right
Jan 31 13:55:53 <lennert> you mean namespace
Jan 31 13:55:58 <ka6sox-office> namespace
Jan 31 13:55:59 <lennert> well, the xupv2p board uses _z suffix
Jan 31 13:56:04 <lennert> so, clock_z
Jan 31 13:56:05 <lennert> reset_z
Jan 31 13:56:10 <ka6sox-office> Ive seen that way too.
Jan 31 13:56:15 <lennert> you can also add an 'n' at the beginning or end
Jan 31 13:56:28 <ka6sox-office> okay I'm used to both ways.
Jan 31 13:56:34 <ka6sox-office> thanks.
Jan 31 13:58:05 <ka6sox-office> just trying to make sure that we all agree on the notation.
Jan 31 13:58:15 <ka6sox-office> (so there is no confusion)
Jan 31 21:44:43 <fishhead> what's the cheapest and simpliest jtag that can work with the most devices
Jan 31 21:47:32 <fishhead> also what's the easiest one for the average moron to build
Jan 31 21:47:33 <fishhead> :P
Jan 31 22:57:38 <fishhead> <fishhead> oh btw in case any of you canucks missed it
Jan 31 22:57:39 <fishhead> <fishhead> www.bgmicro.com go to specials on the right side
Jan 31 22:57:39 <fishhead> <fishhead> ibm ppc 266 board 2 pci slots onboard ether $20
Jan 31 22:57:39 <fishhead> <Kupal[]_> featured items on the left.
Jan 31 22:58:09 <fishhead> http://elinux.org/wiki/DHT-Walnut
Jan 31 22:59:38 <ka6sox> thanks
Jan 31 23:01:18 <fishhead> np
Jan 31 23:37:20 <beewoolie-afk> fishhead: did you get an answer to you Q about building JTAG?
Jan 31 23:37:59 <fishhead> NO BUT going to be a while before I can get around to needing one anyways :)
Jan 31 23:38:09 <beewoolie-afk> beewoolie-afk: if not, I believe that there is a pretty cheap one for sale, about USD$20 from sparkfun.  You *can* build one.  I did.  Either there is something wrong with my design, or I built it wrong.
Jan 31 23:38:21 <beewoolie-afk> It was only US$5 in parts.
Jan 31 23:38:35 <fishhead> whoa
Jan 31 23:38:36 <fishhead> nice
Jan 31 23:38:42 <fishhead> my hands shake like a crack addict
Jan 31 23:38:52 <beewoolie-afk> fishhead: I'm working on some software that will allow us to control a TAP efficiently and flexibly.
Jan 31 23:38:54 <fishhead> so I don't mind paying $20 extra to have someone build it in some cases
Jan 31 23:39:01 <beewoolie-afk> Yeah, that's how I feel.
Jan 31 23:39:02 <fishhead> beewoolie-afk,  you in usa ?
Jan 31 23:39:09 <beewoolie-afk> I'd have felt like a GOD if it had worked.
Jan 31 23:39:13 <beewoolie-afk> fishhead: yeah.  Seattle.
Jan 31 23:39:19 <fishhead> did you see the link for the ppc board
Jan 31 23:39:23 <beewoolie-afk> I did.
Jan 31 23:39:26 <fishhead> good :)
Jan 31 23:39:29 <fishhead> so I helped you a bit :P
Jan 31 23:39:45 <beewoolie-afk> And, I'm holding the line on buying things until I finish with the ones I already have.
Jan 31 23:40:05 <fishhead> ah understandable :)
Jan 31 23:40:15 <fishhead> I still have 5 juiceboxes
Jan 31 23:40:16 <beewoolie-afk> ep1220, a frequent visitor, designed a JTAG board using the ftdi2232
Jan 31 23:40:19 <fishhead> 1 webpal
Jan 31 23:40:23 <fishhead> 1 ppc board coming
Jan 31 23:40:27 <beewoolie-afk> I'm goint to that next.
Jan 31 23:40:29 <fishhead> 32+ pc's at leas in parts
Jan 31 23:40:33 <beewoolie-afk> I've heard of the juice boxes.
Jan 31 23:40:33 <fishhead> 2 dead palms
Jan 31 23:40:43 <beewoolie-afk> Ah, you have more room than I do.
Jan 31 23:40:47 <fishhead> actually 3 but one has coverage
Jan 31 23:40:48 <[g2-lap]> Interesting: http://okvm.sourceforge.net/kvmoverip.html
Jan 31 23:40:50 <beewoolie-afk> Where you at, globally that is?
Jan 31 23:40:54 <fishhead> pennsylvania
Jan 31 23:40:57 <fishhead> hx20
Jan 31 23:40:59 <fishhead> and some other stuff
Jan 31 23:41:03 <fishhead> still waiting for me to get to
Jan 31 23:41:04 <fishhead> :P
Jan 31 23:41:11 <beewoolie-afk> Pittsburgh or Philly?
Jan 31 23:41:16 <fishhead> I had 7 juiceboxes
Jan 31 23:41:27 <fishhead> when they went from $60 to $13 I bought 7
Jan 31 23:41:37 <fishhead> 6 I got were the 8 meg ram version instead of the newer 2 meg
Jan 31 23:41:44 <fishhead> and the 7th gave to my 4 now 5 yr old nephew
Jan 31 23:41:45 <fishhead> :P
Jan 31 23:41:48 <fishhead> hr from pitt
Jan 31 23:41:54 <beewoolie-afk> I went to CMU
Jan 31 23:41:58 <fishhead> cool
Jan 31 23:42:15 <beewoolie-afk> What's in the juicebox?
Jan 31 23:42:34 <beewoolie-afk> And have you seen the NX stuff?  Seems better than VNC.
Jan 31 23:42:53 <fishhead> juicebox has a 60mhz arm7 tdmi
Jan 31 23:42:57 <fishhead> 8 meg mask rom
Jan 31 23:43:01 <fishhead> 2 or 8 meg ram depending on model
Jan 31 23:43:08 <fishhead> 240x160 lcd 4096 colors
Jan 31 23:43:09 <beewoolie-afk> Is that the sharp part?
Jan 31 23:43:12 <fishhead> 16 bit 44 khz audio
Jan 31 23:43:13 <fishhead> no
Jan 31 23:43:30 <beewoolie-afk> OK.  I know someone else was telling me about it.
Jan 31 23:43:34 <fishhead> plys videos from a cart also can play mp3 from cart to sd adaptor in the $40 mp3 kit but I only have 2 of the kits
Jan 31 23:43:43 <fishhead> only could find 2 for $10 each instead of $40
Jan 31 23:44:03 <fishhead> kmart has jb's for $10 now but they are all 2 meg units and they still want $20 for the mp3 kits
Jan 31 23:44:06 <fishhead> although
Jan 31 23:44:11 <fishhead> the mp3 kit has software - gay
Jan 31 23:44:16 <fishhead> usb extension cord - nice
Jan 31 23:44:22 <fishhead> 32 meg sd card - nice
Jan 31 23:44:26 <fishhead> usb sd reader - nice
Jan 31 23:44:30 <fishhead> and sd to jb adaptor
Jan 31 23:44:40 <fishhead> the cord, reader and flash are standard parts you can use for anything
Jan 31 23:44:41 <beewoolie-afk> Nice.
Jan 31 23:45:01 <fishhead> and the adaptor doesn't have any electronics it's just a pcb my friend says it's a nice sd devel board easily worth $20
Jan 31 23:45:44 <fishhead> i'd like to merge one juicebox with my webpal and one with the ppc board
Jan 31 23:45:54 <fishhead> it has a serial port if you add a rs232 translater chip
Jan 31 23:46:13 <fishhead> alos there is a hack to run uclinux off a custom flash chip off the cart port
Jan 31 23:47:09 <fishhead> #edev is the main channel
Jan 31 23:47:15 <fishhead> also for the ppc hacking too and some other stuff
Jan 31 23:50:26 <beewoolie-afk> fishhead: can I ask about the openkvm stuff?
Jan 31 23:50:38 <fishhead> I don't run this channel, no clue
Jan 31 23:50:42 <fishhead> oh you mean in there
Jan 31 23:50:54 <fishhead> I would assume so they will tell you no, nicely otherwise :)
Jan 31 23:50:56 <beewoolie-afk> I just mean, can you answer an easy Q.
Jan 31 23:51:03 <fishhead> me personally?
Jan 31 23:51:09 <fishhead> na I just a pc repair guy and I know some ee
Jan 31 23:51:27 <fishhead> but ask, I don't know anything about openKVM
Jan 31 23:51:34 <fishhead> hel I just got my first kvm
Jan 31 23:51:37 <fishhead> 2 port from friend
Jan 31 23:51:41 <beewoolie-afk> It looks like this is a PCI card that plugs into a PC with ports on the back to connect to keyboard and mouse.  Is that right?
Jan 31 23:51:56 <beewoolie-afk> Oh. I see.
Jan 31 23:52:01 <beewoolie-afk> I thought that that was your link.
Jan 31 23:52:27 <fishhead> you mean the ppc board ?
Jan 31 23:52:42 <beewoolie-afk> [g2-lap]: I'll ask you about the openkvm later.
Jan 31 23:55:33 <ka6sox> beewoolie-afk, is that the thing supported by opengear?
Jan 31 23:55:49 <beewoolie-afk> ka6sox: I don't know.  g2 posted a link.
Jan 31 23:55:58 <beewoolie-afk> It sounds kinda wierd to me.
Jan 31 23:56:00 <ka6sox> looking
Jan 31 23:56:04 <beewoolie-afk> A PCI card to handle the KVM.
Jan 31 23:56:27 <beewoolie-afk> I'd rather something self contained with a network port and capable of attaching to several machines.
Jan 31 23:56:47 <beewoolie-afk> Still, it's interesting.
Jan 31 23:57:13 <ka6sox> beewoolie-afk, yes...our group got a 8 port serial console server from them
Jan 31 23:57:17 <ka6sox> not kvm.
Jan 31 23:57:25 <[g2]> beewoolie-afk yeah and I think the card is openhw ! :)
Jan 31 23:57:41 <beewoolie-afk> I like the idea a lot, but the PCI part is problematic.
Jan 31 23:57:52 <beewoolie-afk> I've worked with lots of system where there is no PCI slot agailable.
Jan 31 23:58:00 <ka6sox> me too
Jan 31 23:58:01 <beewoolie-afk> A serial console server is nice, too.
Jan 31 23:58:11 <[g2]> Oh I'd got PCI in a minute
Jan 31 23:58:16 <[g2]> s/got/go/
Jan 31 23:58:16 <purl> [g2] meant: Oh I'd go PCI in a minute
Jan 31 23:58:33 <ka6sox> beewoolie-afk, only way to talk to a Slug :)
Jan 31 23:58:42 <beewoolie-afk> That, too.
Jan 31 23:58:57 <beewoolie-afk> although I still have it in mind to implement a USB console.
Jan 31 23:59:06 <beewoolie-afk> It would help out a lot with devices like this.
Jan 31 23:59:21 <ka6sox> with something like a USB<>USB networking cable?
Jan 31 23:59:37 <[g2]> USB<->serial
Jan 31 23:59:45 <beewoolie-afk> Could be anything.  Even an IP console would be helpful.
Jan 31 23:59:50 <ka6sox> [g2] didn't you do that earelier with the usb to usb cable?
Feb 01 00:00:04 <beewoolie-afk> Once we have a USB driver, it's trivial to make it available to other machines.
Feb 01 00:00:14 <ka6sox> yep
Feb 01 00:00:23 <[g2]> ka6sox yeah, and that's how I talk to the Lofts
Feb 01 00:00:28 <beewoolie-afk> I know that the ohci driver should be easy, too.
Feb 01 00:00:35 <[g2]> off their DB-9 though
Feb 01 00:01:12 <[g2]> I have ssh'd to a Loft that has a usb-serial to another Loft
Feb 01 00:01:32 <beewoolie-afk> Daisy chain!
Feb 01 00:01:39 <[g2]> and was running minicom in the ssh'd Loft
Feb 01 00:01:54 <beewoolie-afk> I get heart-burn thinking about using minicom.
Feb 01 00:02:02 <[g2]> I think it'd be easy to setup like 8 or 16 with a little USB hub
Feb 01 00:05:25 * fishhead goodnight
Feb 01 00:06:50 <ka6sox> nite
Feb 01 00:07:41 <beewoolie-afk> NN
Feb 01 00:07:45 <[g2]> nite
Feb 01 00:08:07 <[g2]> beewoolie-afk are you a  CU fan ?
Feb 01 00:08:21 <beewoolie-afk> Uh, oh.  Another acronym.
Feb 01 00:08:30 <beewoolie-afk> Colorado University?
Feb 01 00:08:47 <[g2]> i think that's a terminal emulator that a popular alternative to minicom
Feb 01 00:08:58 <beewoolie-afk> whoa!  
Feb 01 00:09:02 * beewoolie-afk starts searching
Feb 01 00:09:16 <ka6sox> Call Unix
Feb 01 00:09:30 <beewoolie-afk> Oh.  That old thing?
Feb 01 00:09:40 <beewoolie-afk> I know about it, but I never needed to use it.
Feb 01 00:09:59 <beewoolie-afk> minicom is infuriatingly buggy, but I cannot make myself rewrite it.
Feb 01 00:10:11 <beewoolie-afk> I use it quite a bit and it kills me.
Feb 01 00:11:53 <[g2]> so I forget who we were talking to about doing KVM on the S3
Feb 01 00:12:08 <[g2]> but it looks like the openkvm does something similar
Feb 01 00:12:23 <beewoolie-afk> Their design has a lot of chips.
Feb 01 00:12:32 <[g2]> yeah
Feb 01 00:12:56 <beewoolie-afk> It would be super to have something that costs about $50 and could serve a dozen machines on one ethernet port.
Feb 01 00:12:57 <[g2]> but really a $200 dev kit and I think it can control 4 PCs
Feb 01 00:13:42 <beewoolie-afk> Even at $100, the convenience of being able to wire a group of machines that way is tremendous.
Feb 01 00:13:45 <[g2]> yeah I'd like the $50 kit too, but $200 for 4 pc's is enough to move the machines with fans to the garage
Feb 01 00:13:48 <beewoolie-afk> I think that Rose does this already.
Feb 01 00:14:02 <beewoolie-afk> But that board requires a PC and a PCI slot.
Feb 01 00:14:14 <beewoolie-afk> Not very helpful in the situations where I've worked.
Feb 01 00:15:02 <[g2]> the other option is OpenBIOS 
Feb 01 00:15:42 <beewoolie-afk> Yeah.  That can work.  But practically speaking, I've never been able to reflash the BIOS in a data center.
Feb 01 00:15:50 <[g2]> then you just grab the keyboad, mouse, video straight in the BIOS and ship it somewhere
Feb 01 00:16:01 <[g2]> _exactly_
Feb 01 00:16:12 <beewoolie-afk> And, there are devices such as routers and the like that may benefit from a remote serial port.
Feb 01 00:16:18 <[g2]> do you visit many data centers ?
Feb 01 00:16:26 <beewoolie-afk> I've worked in many.
Feb 01 00:16:40 <beewoolie-afk> I manage one now, but I'm hoping to get someone to replace me.
Feb 01 00:17:04 <beewoolie-afk> The sucky thing about the KVMs is that we have to go into the computer room to work on the machines.
Feb 01 00:18:34 <beewoolie-afk> It's cold and noisy.  The UNIX machines are amenable to remote access, but the windows boxes are another matter.
Feb 01 00:21:01 <ka6sox> thats what Okvm is about
Feb 01 00:21:10 <ka6sox> remote KVM (in a cushy office)
Feb 01 00:25:45 <beewoolie-afk> ka6sox: But they require a PCI card.
Feb 01 00:26:16 <ka6sox> ah
Feb 01 00:26:41 <beewoolie-afk> It's an odd niche since it really only affects Windows machines.
Feb 01 00:26:56 <ka6sox> beewoolie-afk, only other solution is something like the Cyclades boxes.
Feb 01 00:26:59 <beewoolie-afk> The UNIX machines have always been amenable to remote access.  Heck, the Linux kernel has a network console driver.
Feb 01 00:27:06 <ka6sox> ya
Feb 01 00:35:24 <[g2]> but you can't change the BIOS parameters from your Linux network console
Feb 01 00:36:28 <ka6sox> with external KVM you *might* if it responds quick enough
Feb 01 00:37:00 <[g2]> heh that'd be a nice feature
Feb 01 00:37:22 <[g2]> delay X after video sync then send char(s) ....
Feb 01 00:38:07 <[g2]> remotely power cycle the box and boom your in -- like flynn
Feb 01 00:38:24 <ka6sox> that would be NICE>
Feb 01 00:40:13 <beewoolie-afk> Yeah.  I've wanted that.
Feb 01 00:40:47 <beewoolie-afk> I designed a circuit to allow me to call my telephone and use the touch-tone pad to control a power strip.
Feb 01 00:41:20 <beewoolie-afk> I'd be able to power cycle my machines in case of power glitch taking one off line.
Feb 01 00:41:34 <[g2]> how long ago was that ?
Feb 01 00:41:43 <beewoolie-afk> A couple of years ago.
Feb 01 00:42:17 <beewoolie-afk> I'd drawn all of the schematics, but I lost momentum when I realized that I was going to need to learn PIC programming.
Feb 01 00:42:59 <beewoolie-afk> There were some interesting resources on line for detecting touch-tones with some simple signal analysis and a single A2D.
Feb 01 01:00:58 <[g2]> nite all
Feb 01 01:07:04 <ka6sox> nite [g2] 
Feb 01 01:20:36 <ka6sox> hes baaaaaaaack
Feb 01 02:32:56 <ka6sox> lennert: ping
Feb 01 02:33:21 <ka6sox> got a URL for Double Expresso?
Feb 01 02:35:13 <dyoung-away> http://www.ipfabrics.com/products/de.php
Feb 01 02:35:24 <ka6sox> ya
Feb 01 02:35:27 <ka6sox> thats it
Feb 01 02:35:42 <dyoung-away> It seems so wonderful.
Feb 01 02:35:56 <ka6sox> $3k
Feb 01 02:43:40 <lennert> pong
Feb 01 02:43:48 <lennert> definitely a nice board
Feb 01 02:43:53 <lennert> i'm getting my pci-e mobo in a few days
Feb 01 02:43:55 <ka6sox> you got the TS?
Feb 01 02:43:59 <lennert> and then i _definitely_ have to stop buying toys
Feb 01 02:44:13 <lennert> ts?  ts7250 i have, too.
Feb 01 02:51:53 <dyoung-away> Wow
Feb 01 02:51:56 <dyoung-away> its a pci-e
Feb 01 02:52:08 <dyoung-away> and Marija is letting you guy a mobo just for this toy?
Feb 01 02:52:12 <dyoung-away> Lucky Man.
Feb 01 02:52:33 <lennert> yes, she is letting me get a mobo just for this toy.. :)
Feb 01 02:52:48 <lennert> (she's getting a blender :)
Feb 01 02:52:59 <dyoung-away> You are the envy of all the toy guys onchannel.
Feb 01 02:53:09 <dyoung-away> thats a fair trade eh
Feb 01 02:53:10 <dyoung-away> :-)
Feb 01 02:53:30 <lennert> hehe
Feb 01 02:53:38 <lennert> but i'm slaving away for hours every day to get this stuff to work :)
Feb 01 02:53:58 <dyoung-away> Oh co'mon, you know you like it.
Feb 01 02:54:17 <dyoung-away> You arent happy unless youre "slaving away" at something or another.
Feb 01 02:54:28 <lennert> that's true
Feb 01 02:54:29 <dyoung-away> And that includes running
Feb 01 02:54:31 <dyoung-away> biking,
Feb 01 02:54:33 <lennert> can't sit still
Feb 01 02:54:34 <dyoung-away> hiking
Feb 01 02:54:39 <lennert> and hacking
Feb 01 02:54:42 <dyoung-away> feeding the creatures.........
Feb 01 02:54:48 <dyoung-away> PLUS device hacking
Feb 01 02:54:53 <ka6sox> creatures?
Feb 01 02:54:57 <lennert> i went swimming yesterday
Feb 01 02:55:56 <dyoung-away> Creatures... I think it was water fowl.
Feb 01 02:56:02 <dyoung-away> Quack Quack
Feb 01 02:57:22 <lennert> duckies!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 01 02:59:59 2006