**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 25 02:59:57 2008
Sep 25 06:11:48 <nyu> hi
Sep 25 06:12:27 <nyu> is the headphone output & external speaker output exported to userland as separate channels?
Sep 25 06:13:11 <nyu> I have some weird trouble that involves output not switching between them as a direct result of plugging the headphone
Sep 25 06:45:49 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r0d6acb396d4b 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/convert.py: 
Sep 25 06:45:49 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Fix encoding SMS with characters in the GSM extension table
Sep 25 06:45:49 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: We tried to catch KeyError instead of ValueError so we missed the exceptions
Sep 25 08:33:07 <CIA-52> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r4d30cf55e3c8 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): [ousaged] Added support for resources suspend and resume The code is a little bit tricky, it may be improved by using the tasklet class
Sep 25 08:58:18 <CIA-52> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r3e2d703b7077 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: ogsmd: Add a PDU to test characters on the extended GSM alphabet table
Sep 25 09:17:41 <Ainulindale> Hey there
Sep 25 09:28:03 <laBrute> hi guys, i'd like to do some cool stuff also for openmoko on the EFL libraries
Sep 25 09:28:17 <laBrute> i understood that EFL is included only on OM 2008.8
Sep 25 09:28:22 <laBrute> right ?
Sep 25 09:31:43 <alphaone> didn't shr.bearstech.com have fso builds as well?
Sep 25 09:34:42 <Ainulindale> of course they have alphaone 
Sep 25 09:35:18 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Are they gone or am I just too stupid to find them?
Sep 25 09:47:03 <Ainulindale> I would tend to think it's the latter but since I've seen what you do...
Sep 25 09:47:21 <Ainulindale> Ah
Sep 25 09:47:21 <Ainulindale> I see
Sep 25 09:47:33 <Ainulindale> rwhitby: did you modify everything on the buildhost ?
Sep 25 09:47:39 <Ainulindale> alphaone: http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/ipk/
Sep 25 09:47:58 <Ainulindale> There's no meaning to strip down fso builds, to my eyes
Sep 25 09:48:08 <Ainulindale> We need fso AND shr builds
Sep 25 09:54:47 <alphaone> Okay, so at the moment shr builds equals fso builds?
Sep 25 09:55:32 <Ainulindale> I don't even know
Sep 25 09:55:54 <rwhitby> Ainulindale: shr builds are a superset of fso builds
Sep 25 09:56:12 <rwhitby> fso builds are now on downloads.freesmartphone.org
Sep 25 09:56:13 <Ainulindale> rwhitby: Yes but why just unstable ?
Sep 25 09:56:19 <Ainulindale> Oh and by the ay
Sep 25 09:56:20 <Ainulindale> +w
Sep 25 09:56:24 <Ainulindale> Something's wrong there
Sep 25 09:56:28 <Ainulindale> frameworkd has been modified
Sep 25 09:56:33 <Ainulindale> Last build was done on the 17th
Sep 25 09:56:38 <Ainulindale> I suppose the AUTOREV isn't properly set
Sep 25 09:57:22 <rwhitby> Ainulindale: we can change it to autorev if you like
Sep 25 09:57:55 <Ainulindale> I don't like anything, it's not my place to decide :-)
Sep 25 09:58:08 <Ainulindale> I think you're far more competent to decide that
Sep 25 09:58:29 <Ainulindale> Is an unstable buildhost really necessary ?
Sep 25 09:58:39 <Ainulindale> For my development purposes, I would think it is
Sep 25 09:58:45 <Ainulindale> But that's only me
Sep 25 10:14:59 <rwhitby> Ainulindale: I've added shr-testing
Sep 25 10:15:18 <rwhitby> but the autobuilder has been stuck since the 18th
Sep 25 10:21:07 <rwhitby> it's now unstuck, and I'll watch it tonight and tomorrow.
Sep 25 10:29:50 <rwhitby> shr-testing is now building
Sep 25 11:44:34 <Ainulindale> rwhitby: why was it stuck ?
Sep 25 11:45:10 <mwester-trip> poor traction?
Sep 25 11:46:24 <rwhitby> Ainulindale: dunno, ipkg-cl got stuck making a rootfs.
Sep 25 12:17:54 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|tw, hi, evening..
Sep 25 12:28:45 <mickey|tw> heya
Sep 25 12:31:35 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|tw, tw must be fun :D
Sep 25 12:32:06 <mickey|tw> well... it's work, of course
Sep 25 12:32:13 <mickey|tw> but always great to work together with the team
Sep 25 12:32:26 <mickey|tw> plus the foreign culture bonus 
Sep 25 12:32:33 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|tw, ...and food
Sep 25 12:32:43 <mickey|tw> yap
Sep 25 12:32:52 <mwester-trip> And travel.  Airports are SO much fun.
Sep 25 12:32:58 <Sup3rkiddo> :D
Sep 25 12:36:44 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|tw, so from the email sent by alphaone I take it that there is bound to be some changes within the subsystems, so shall i slow down a bit? (prolly concentrate on the missing audio plugin for Device subsystem)
Sep 25 12:38:15 <mickey|tw> yeah, that sounds like a good plan. I'm not sure how much we can do in the three weeks, but while we're here, we're trying to discuss some open issues and perform some structural changes. 
Sep 25 12:40:34 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|tw, ah ok...will keep you and the ml posted if I make progress...
Sep 25 12:40:46 <CIA-52> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r6c52abeaa96c 10/framework/subsystems/otimed/alarm.py: otimed: add basic alarm system
Sep 25 12:42:55 <mickey|tw> cool, thanks
Sep 25 12:43:03 <mickey|tw> one of the big points here is tests and docs
Sep 25 12:43:11 <mickey|tw> both implementations will benefit from that
Sep 25 12:43:49 <mickey|tw> once I'm back we really need to merge the first bits
Sep 25 12:44:02 <mickey|tw> idle notifier and input are too slow in Py
Sep 25 12:48:19 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|tw, the vala versions seem to be ok in that front (especially idlenotifier)..of course it would benefit if someone experienced takes a look at it..as far as the tests are concerned, my plan of action was to make it "just work" with zhone as it is the only big consumer I can think of.
Sep 25 12:48:39 <Sup3rkiddo> s/would benefit/could improve/
Sep 25 12:49:21 <mickey|tw> true. we need automated unit tests thoug
Sep 25 12:49:28 <mickey|tw> mid term there's no way without them
Sep 25 12:50:28 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|tw, oh..
Sep 25 12:51:11 <Sup3rkiddo> it should be easier to do it in python, as its DBus, we could safely write them all in python?
Sep 25 12:52:13 <mickey|tw> yep
Sep 25 12:58:18 <rwhitby> mickey|tw: I forsee a lot of people running Debian and fso-gpsd, but not running frameworkd (assuming that if they are not running zhone then they don't need to run frameworkd).  How can we guard against that?
Sep 25 13:01:12 <mickey|tw> making frameworkd autoactivate
Sep 25 13:01:29 <mickey|tw> fso-gpsd will call dbus service methods on frameworkd
Sep 25 13:01:34 <mickey|tw> which then will initiate frameworkd
Sep 25 13:03:08 <lindi-> mickey|tw: hi, any ideas on #151?
Sep 25 13:03:48 <mickey|tw> what's that?
Sep 25 13:04:33 <lindi-> mickey|tw: AT%CBHZ=1 makes voice sound like it had compression artifacts: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/151
Sep 25 13:04:42 <lindi-> mickey|tw: added between milestone2 and milestone2
Sep 25 13:04:44 <lindi-> mickey|tw: added between milestone2 and milestone3
Sep 25 13:05:02 <lindi-> (hmm, ignore previous two lines, i think it was in frameworkd always)
Sep 25 13:05:55 <mickey|tw> definitely not CBHZ
Sep 25 13:06:04 <mickey|tw> rather Nsomething
Sep 25 13:06:11 <mickey|tw> Nsomething improving the sound actually
Sep 25 13:06:16 <mickey|tw> less echos
Sep 25 13:06:20 <mickey|tw> noise reduction
Sep 25 13:06:29 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i tested CBHZ myself
Sep 25 13:06:37 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i made numerous test calls
Sep 25 13:06:40 <mickey|tw> i'd rather compensate by increasing the mic levels
Sep 25 13:06:48 <lindi-> mickey|tw: always when i use AT%CBHZ=1 i hear horrible compression artifacts
Sep 25 13:06:56 <lindi-> mickey|tw: and always when i use AT%CBHZ=0 it is ok
Sep 25 13:07:04 <mickey|tw> heh, ok
Sep 25 13:07:06 <mickey|tw> i'll take a look
Sep 25 13:07:11 <lindi-> mickey|tw: it is also hearable for the other party
Sep 25 13:07:21 <mickey|tw> it sounds pretty unlogical though
Sep 25 13:07:25 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i tried to record the call but the kernel oopsed with arecord
Sep 25 13:07:29 <mickey|tw> since CBHZ deals with homezone cell broadcastts
Sep 25 13:07:31 <mickey|tw> and not voice
Sep 25 13:07:34 <lindi-> mickey|tw: it sounds really unlogical indeed
Sep 25 13:07:43 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i don't understand it either
Sep 25 13:07:49 <lindi-> mickey|tw: maybe TI firmware has a bug
Sep 25 13:09:26 <lindi-> mickey|tw: 2007.2 does not use AT%CBHZ=1 so there i also hear the voice ok. this made me think it was not a hardware issue and i started to compare the commands sent to the gsm chip
Sep 25 13:12:24 <mickey|tw> which network are you on?
Sep 25 13:13:17 <lindi-> mickey|tw: "Saunalahti", a finnish operator
Sep 25 13:15:46 <mickey|tw> do you get cell broadcasts there?
Sep 25 13:17:00 <lindi-> mickey|tw: sorry but what would they look like? i grepped frameworkd source for CBHZ but i only see the lines where it is enabled/disabled
Sep 25 13:17:41 <mickey|tw> you would receive signals from the frameworkd
Sep 25 13:17:45 <mickey|tw> like IncomingCellBroadcast
Sep 25 13:19:59 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i start  sudo su bin -c "dbus-monitor --system" now to see
Sep 25 13:20:45 <lindi-> but maybe i should enable AT%CBHZ=1 too
Sep 25 13:22:51 <lindi-> mickey|tw: what are these home zones anyway? the source suggests the SIM would have list of named cell ids
Sep 25 13:35:58 <lindi-> >>> gsm.DebugCommand("AT+CGMR\r\n")
Sep 25 13:35:58 <lindi-> dbus.Array([dbus.String(u'+CGMR: "HW: GTA02BV5, GSM: gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko8"'), dbus.String(u'OK')], signature=dbus.Signature('s'))
Sep 25 13:36:02 <lindi-> in case it matters
Sep 25 13:36:08 <lindi-> TAsn: can you do the above please?
Sep 25 13:39:43 <mickey|tw> the SIM contains a list of home zones defined as Gauss-Krüger coordinates and a radius
Sep 25 13:40:23 <mickey|tw> cell broadcasts deliver you the Gauss-Krüger coordinate of the BTS you#re connected to
Sep 25 13:40:26 <mickey|tw> then you can match these
Sep 25 13:40:31 <mickey|tw> and show the home zone icon
Sep 25 13:40:32 <mickey|tw> or not 
Sep 25 13:40:33 <mickey|tw> :D
Sep 25 13:40:37 <mickey|tw> that#s all
Sep 25 13:41:11 <lindi-> mickey|tw: interesting
Sep 25 13:41:30 <lindi-> mickey|tw: so this means i could use GSM for figuring out my location too
Sep 25 13:41:41 <raster> rougly
Sep 25 13:41:43 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i don't understand how this can affect voice quality
Sep 25 13:41:43 <mickey|tw> if you're on a network that supports this, yes
Sep 25 13:41:44 <raster> roughly
Sep 25 13:41:45 <raster> yes
Sep 25 13:41:47 <mickey|tw> in germany only O2
Sep 25 13:41:53 <mickey|tw> (vodafone)
Sep 25 13:41:57 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i think in finland they sell that as an extra service
Sep 25 13:42:10 <raster> if u know the co-ords of the celltowers u can tirangulate to an extent
Sep 25 13:42:14 <mickey|tw> dinner...
Sep 25 13:42:26 <raster> thats not always possible to know
Sep 25 13:42:34 <lindi-> mickey|tw: but even if we don't understand what the TI chip is thinking shouldn't we remove CBHZ=1 for now?
Sep 25 13:42:54 <mickey|tw|dinner> lindi-: nah, we don#t get cell broadcasts without it
Sep 25 13:43:18 <mickey|tw|dinner> bbl
Sep 25 13:43:26 <lindi-> mickey|tw|dinner: but i don't get understandable voice with it :)
Sep 25 13:43:36 <lindi-> mickey|tw|dinner: how about we disable it during calls then? ;)
Sep 25 13:44:54 <mickey|tw|dinner> well
Sep 25 13:45:01 <mickey|tw|dinner> i still don#t believe that
Sep 25 13:45:02 <mickey|tw|dinner> (sorry)
Sep 25 13:45:06 <mickey|tw|dinner> i have to reproduce it
Sep 25 13:45:17 <mickey|tw|dinner> if confirmed, then we think about options
Sep 25 13:45:20 * mickey|tw|dinner away
Sep 25 13:45:26 <lindi-> mickey|tw|dinner: should i send you a video where i reproduce it? ;)
Sep 25 13:45:31 <mickey|tw|dinner> yes!
Sep 25 13:45:36 <lindi-> TAsn: you too should try to reproduce this please
Sep 25 13:47:40 <CIA-58> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r3bfacaf31fa1 10/framework/subsystems/otimed/alarm.py: otimed: fix typo
Sep 25 14:28:01 <quickdev> Hey
Sep 25 14:29:30 <quickdev> Ainulindale, any news?
Sep 25 14:30:03 <Ainulindale> As I told you, I didn't look at it because I have no time
Sep 25 14:30:07 <Ainulindale> Not now
Sep 25 14:30:16 <Ainulindale> Not until this week-end and I'm not even sure of that
Sep 25 14:30:35 <Ainulindale> I can't see anything causing this problem, so some debug is the only viable solution
Sep 25 14:30:43 <quickdev> Ainulindale, ok, no problem :)
Sep 25 14:31:10 <Ainulindale> I would help you if I could but this is unfortunately not an appropriate time for me
Sep 25 14:32:36 <quickdev> nothing to worry about - just wanted to hear if there was some new information :)
Sep 25 14:35:24 <Sup3rkiddo> quickdev, heya
Sep 25 14:35:35 <quickdev> hey Sup3rkiddo 
Sep 25 15:46:44 <lindi-> mickey|tw|dinner: "swf|666" on #openmoko-debian confirmed that CBHZ=0 removes the distortion
Sep 25 16:59:55 <mickey|tw> lindi-: create a ticket please
Sep 25 17:01:33 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i did
Sep 25 17:01:37 <lindi-> mickey|tw: #151
Sep 25 17:01:50 <mickey|tw> bugs.oe.org?
Sep 25 17:01:54 <mickey|tw> om
Sep 25 17:02:01 <lindi-> mickey|tw: trac.freesmartphone.org
Sep 25 17:02:07 <mickey|tw> ah
Sep 25 17:02:39 <mickey|tw> this looks like a modem problem, so would be more appropriate in Om#s tracker, but ok
Sep 25 17:02:55 <lindi-> mickey|tw: yep the original reporter was not able to figure out the cause
Sep 25 17:03:11 <lindi-> mickey|tw: i spent hours trying to figure out what gsmd and frameworkd do differently
Sep 25 17:03:29 <lindi-> mickey|tw: only after that noticed that gsmd does not use AT%CBHZ=1
Sep 25 17:04:01 <mickey|tw> ok
Sep 25 19:38:22 <TAsn> lindi-, here?
Sep 25 19:38:39 <lindi-> TAsn: yes
Sep 25 19:38:52 <TAsn> what exactly did you want me to check
Sep 25 19:38:52 <TAsn> ?
Sep 25 19:40:22 <TAsn> lindi-, btw, how should i apply your patch and what files should i backup?
Sep 25 19:41:28 <lindi-> TAsn: $ cli-framework
Sep 25 19:41:41 <TAsn> what?
Sep 25 19:41:50 <lindi-> TAsn: >>> gsm.DebugCommand("AT%CBHZ=1\r\n")
Sep 25 19:42:07 <lindi-> TAsn: run the cli-framework tool
Sep 25 19:42:30 <TAsn> im in
Sep 25 19:42:43 <TAsn> >>> gsm.DebugCommand("AT%CBHZ=1\r\n")
Sep 25 19:42:43 <TAsn> dbus.Array([dbus.String(u'+CMS ERROR: 310')], signature=dbus.Signature('s'))
Sep 25 19:42:53 <lindi-> hrm
Sep 25 19:43:22 <TAsn> sec
Sep 25 19:43:30 <TAsn> i lost connection to network.
Sep 25 19:46:54 <TAsn> lindi-, dbus.Array([dbus.String(u'OK')], signature=dbus.Signature('s'))
Sep 25 19:47:16 <TAsn> now sound should work?
Sep 25 19:48:32 <TAsn> im not sure it's better now.
Sep 25 19:48:41 <TAsn> hard to tell.
Sep 25 19:49:52 <lindi-> TAsn: uh oh
Sep 25 19:49:59 <lindi-> TAsn: you want to set it to zero, not one
Sep 25 19:50:12 <TAsn> oh, sec.
Sep 25 19:50:13 <lindi-> sorry for the error
Sep 25 19:51:10 <TAsn> i think that's it. ;]
Sep 25 19:51:22 <TAsn> lindi-, how do i apply the patch you posted?
Sep 25 19:51:29 <TAsn> and what to backup?
Sep 25 19:55:28 <lindi-> TAsn: are you using debian?
Sep 25 19:58:09 <TAsn> lindi-, no
Sep 25 19:58:10 <TAsn> fso.
Sep 25 19:58:37 <lindi-> TAsn: do you know how to develop it?
Sep 25 19:59:17 <TAsn> what do you mean by develop it?
Sep 25 19:59:52 <lindi-> TAsn: do you know how to create packages for it?
Sep 25 19:59:54 <TAsn> I can program, I do program, if that's what you mean.
Sep 25 20:00:03 <TAsn> lindi-, haven't checked yet.
Sep 25 20:00:12 <TAsn> installed fso in the middle of my testing period ;]
Sep 25 20:00:28 <TAsn> actually got the moko in the middle of my test period.
Sep 25 20:00:32 <TAsn> just finished. ;]
Sep 25 20:00:56 <lindi-> TAsn: well, you can just edit the python file directly in this case
Sep 25 20:01:15 <lindi-> TAsn: but in the long run you need to learn how to use git and with fso also bitbake
Sep 25 20:01:29 <TAsn> cool enough.
Sep 25 20:01:40 <TAsn> that's what i did so far.
Sep 25 20:02:37 <dpobrien> Is there someone here who works for OpenMoko with whom I could speak privately, or am I best off using one of the stock email addresses on the site?
Sep 25 20:10:04 <quickdev> Hey
Sep 25 20:12:04 <dpobrien> Hello
Sep 25 21:05:03 <quickdev> Ainulindale, I'm a bit confused. call status doesn't even work with my libframeworkd-glib and ophonekitd version I tried some days ago. And sim auth status always works. I already reflashed the rootfs. Might it be a toolchain problem?
Sep 25 21:08:23 <neolynx> I have troubles setting up my toolchain, and would be happy for some help
Sep 25 21:09:14 <neolynx> I want libstdc++, which is not included in the prebuilt toolchain
Sep 25 21:09:26 <neolynx> I tried to build that, without success
Sep 25 21:09:32 <neolynx> I tried with crosstool
Sep 25 21:11:23 <neolynx> whatever I try, I get strange asm errors, wrong gcc versions, missing header files...
Sep 25 21:48:42 <quickdev> Ainulindale, solved it :)
Sep 25 23:01:28 <yabo> hello, what packages from the FSO-reposiry should i get? I am looking for all the common modules (ie the ones that come with the package from python.org)
Sep 26 02:54:22 <bengo> hi all, i wish to get your feeling about ultra-low-cost mobile phones
Sep 26 02:54:43 <bengo> openmoko is great for us and europe ( USD 400 )
Sep 26 02:55:13 <bengo> what can be possible in the future for india, africa, ...
Sep 26 02:55:34 <bengo> is there a hope for a free platform under 50 US$
Sep 26 02:55:35 <bengo> ?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 26 02:59:56 2008