**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 06 02:59:57 2008
Oct 06 03:46:13 <bbs> hello, i'm a software developer
Oct 06 03:46:20 <bbs> i am very interested in this phone
Oct 06 03:46:42 <bbs> i do a fair amount of kernel hacking in my free time which is probably my favorite thing to do and makes me procrastinate doing my hw
Oct 06 03:46:57 <bbs> in any event -- some stupid bi*** broke my iphone 3g this weekend at a party 
Oct 06 03:47:13 <bbs> and seeing this phone i'm torn whether or not to get it or a blackberry pearl
Oct 06 03:47:32 <bbs> i figured since this was a development channel people would answer me with logical _correct_ information that i can actually base a purchase on
Oct 06 03:47:38 <bbs> it won't break my pocket
Oct 06 03:48:17 <bbs> it _will_ break my pocket if i buy it and nothing works and requires _significant_ (not installation -- i'm talking like actual coding work) -- work to get things like phone, sms, and email to work
Oct 06 03:55:25 <mwester> consider your pocket broken, then.
Oct 06 04:01:33 <bbs> mwester: really ?
Oct 06 04:01:42 <bbs> mwester: do you have a few moments to discuss this with me?
Oct 06 04:02:12 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r4498471d7160 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): ousage: document org.freesmartphone.Usage.Suspend()
Oct 06 04:03:40 <mwester> What do you need to know that isnt' in the wiki?
Oct 06 04:04:12 <bbs> from another developers point of view if it will work for me as a phone.
Oct 06 04:05:43 <mwester> That's a vague question.  There are some users who do use it as a primary phone -- they tend to be very frustrated people, IMO.  I have said very often that the core Openmoko employees all need to be required to use it as a primary phone -- and maybe some of the problems would be solved.
Oct 06 04:07:12 <mwester> It has gotten much better recently, but there are still vast numbers of untouched problems that go far beyond minor cosmetic issues and into fundamental architecture and hardware problems.
Oct 06 04:07:53 <mwester> it will all eventually get sorted out, but at the current rate, it will be the (fragmented) community that will end up doing it, and perhaps take another year, or so.
Oct 06 04:08:04 <mwester> Qtopia is the closest, but that is driven by a commercial company.
Oct 06 04:12:08 <bbs> ack
Oct 06 04:13:00 <bbs> mwester: i guess i'll wait for one of my friends who has one to field test it for a bit -- it might be a stage of enlightenment to have a half functinoal phone
Oct 06 04:13:27 <bbs> mwester: thank you for your input -- i appreciate it -- and since i'm working on a linux distro atm -- i really _dont_ have the time to start working on the phone
Oct 06 04:13:28 <mwester> It's certainly a learning experience.
Oct 06 04:14:01 <bbs> :)
Oct 06 04:14:04 <bbs> those are good
Oct 06 04:15:10 <mwester> I certainly don't regret getting involved in this, but I have to say that my plans for what I would develop were not at all what I have done for the past year and a half for the project.  I wanted to develop an app; ended up debugging kernels and GSM interfaces.
Oct 06 04:15:27 <bbs> i'm good with the kernels
Oct 06 04:15:31 <mwester> We are just now getting to the point where things are becoming stable enough to do serious app development.
Oct 06 04:15:33 <bbs> not sure about GSM interfaces
Oct 06 04:15:44 <bbs> mwester: thats awesome
Oct 06 04:15:53 <mickey|tw> *nod*
Oct 06 04:16:00 <bbs> so i mean maybe i'll wait until christmas time?
Oct 06 04:16:08 <bbs> not sure -- maybe i'll just cave in and get one tomorrow
Oct 06 04:16:20 <bbs> i'm never sure what my nerdar will require of me
Oct 06 04:16:27 <bbs> :/ -- its a curse
Oct 06 04:16:38 <ljp> nothing wrong with commercial development of open source
Oct 06 04:17:01 <bbs> thats true i guess
Oct 06 04:17:06 <bbs> so long as it _stays_ open source
Oct 06 04:20:39 <bbs> i mean i know very little of the project as of yet
Oct 06 04:20:46 <bbs> so i guess i should just read as well
Oct 06 04:21:02 <ljp> it doesnt matter if a company continues to release something open source, as it is already in the wold, anyone can start a fork
Oct 06 04:21:14 <ljp> wild, that is
Oct 06 04:21:23 <bbs> true :)
Oct 06 04:21:39 <bbs> what is most of the software written in?
Oct 06 04:21:53 <ljp> but yes, Nokia will continue the tradition of trolltech and release qt extended as open source
Oct 06 04:21:56 <bbs> excluding kernel :p
Oct 06 04:22:10 <bbs> lol
Oct 06 04:22:14 <ljp> bbs: depends on what gui. qt extended is c++
Oct 06 04:22:37 <bbs> yea qt is c++
Oct 06 04:22:38 <ljp> others are c and python
Oct 06 04:22:41 <bbs> what version 3 or 4
Oct 06 04:22:43 <ljp> 4
Oct 06 04:22:48 <bbs> thats what i imagined c and python
Oct 06 04:22:50 <ljp> 3 is ancient
Oct 06 04:22:54 * bbs nods
Oct 06 04:23:05 <ljp> i really want to see an ncurses phone gui
Oct 06 04:23:12 <bbs> that would be sick.
Oct 06 04:25:07 <mwester> There are others who are also interested in an ncurses phone gui :)
Oct 06 04:25:28 <mwester> I think it should be emacs, of course.  :-D
Oct 06 04:26:24 <bbs> :/
Oct 06 04:26:29 * bbs frowns ;p
Oct 06 04:26:38 <bbs> mwester: how would it be an ncurses phone gui
Oct 06 04:26:46 <bbs> it would just be an ncurses phone interface right?
Oct 06 04:27:15 <mwester> Yah, well, technically you are correct of course.
Oct 06 04:27:34 * bbs is being a d-bag
Oct 06 04:27:50 <bbs> i mean my life is in console really -- so i would love that too
Oct 06 04:27:58 <mwester> But if I selected my font carefully, it would be indestinguishable from a sort of gui, now wouldn't it?
Oct 06 04:28:10 <mwester> dingbats
Oct 06 04:28:13 <bbs> lol
Oct 06 04:28:14 <mwester> for example.
Oct 06 04:28:27 <bbs> i guess if you wanted a cryptic version
Oct 06 04:28:35 <mwester> We have cryptic already ;)
Oct 06 04:28:51 <bbs> i try to stay away from fonts with "ding" int hem
Oct 06 04:28:55 <mwester> just try some of the predictive keyboards!
Oct 06 04:28:57 <bbs> i.e. dingbats -- wingdings
Oct 06 04:28:59 <bbs> anythign like that
Oct 06 04:29:06 <bbs> mwester: jesus i'm scared
Oct 06 04:29:47 <bbs> i think i should stick with something else for the moment
Oct 06 04:30:09 <bbs> i just _love_ the idea
Oct 06 04:30:26 <bbs> but again -- i'll have to wait until my friends verdict and then i'll make a final decision
Oct 06 04:30:36 <bbs> mwester: mickey|tw ljp , thanks for the input
Oct 06 04:30:44 <bbs> even though mickey|tw was only a *nod* 
Oct 06 04:30:46 <bbs> :p
Oct 06 04:40:06 <mickey|tw> :)
Oct 06 04:40:39 <bbs> ;p
Oct 06 04:40:48 <bbs> i mean i might just get this and help
Oct 06 04:40:50 <bbs> which would be fun
Oct 06 04:40:59 <bbs> but get me bad grades on my haskell homework
Oct 06 04:43:00 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r0a77444b53a7 10/framework/persist.py: persist: use the CLoader/CDumper from libyaml
Oct 06 04:43:01 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * ra08b99b0963f 10/framework/persist.py: persist: write to a tempfile first, then rename it
Oct 06 04:43:02 <mickey|tw> you might be able to combine it
Oct 06 04:43:07 <mickey|tw> write a dialer in haskell
Oct 06 04:43:11 <mickey|tw> just need a dbus binding
Oct 06 04:46:23 <bbs> :p
Oct 06 04:46:28 <bbs> you could do that too
Oct 06 04:46:41 <bbs> i would have to work out monad structure stuff
Oct 06 04:46:46 <bbs> ack
Oct 06 04:47:10 <bbs> g'night
Oct 06 04:47:12 * bbs waves
Oct 06 04:48:39 <mickey|tw> cu
Oct 06 04:48:55 <alphaone> http://neugierig.org/software/hdbus/doc/
Oct 06 04:49:15 <mickey|tw> heh!
Oct 06 04:49:17 <bbs> i'll look into it :)
Oct 06 04:49:17 <mickey|tw> that's amazing
Oct 06 04:51:53 <bbs> it would be the fastest dialer known to man
Oct 06 04:51:53 <bbs> lol
Oct 06 04:51:59 <bbs> ok night for real
Oct 06 04:52:04 * bbs wanders to top bunk
Oct 06 04:53:38 <alphaone> heh
Oct 06 04:53:41 <alphaone> Have fun
Oct 06 04:53:52 <alphaone> mickey|tw: Yeah, dbus is everywhere
Oct 06 04:54:05 <mickey|tw> yep
Oct 06 04:54:12 <mickey|tw> safe horse to bet on
Oct 06 04:54:19 <alphaone> lol
Oct 06 04:54:22 <alphaone> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platforms.linux/browse_thread/thread/05f67b110fd6586d/1d00bf580afea233?lnk=raot
Oct 06 04:55:51 <mickey|tw> eeks
Oct 06 04:56:19 <jOERG_zzZZzz> alphaone: mickey|tw: how hard is it to replace a socket based IF by a dbus IF?
Oct 06 04:57:25 <alphaone> jOERG_zzZZzz: where?
Oct 06 04:57:43 <alphaone> jOERG_zzZZzz: Largely depends on the dbus IF used and the language :-)
Oct 06 04:57:44 <mickey|tw> jOERG_zzZZzz: depends on the language and on the API you`re going to expose over dbus. With C, it's quite a bit of work, especially on the server, as you need to integrate with a mainloop. The client is probably pretty easy. On high level languages, it's very easy actually
Oct 06 04:57:48 <jOERG_zzZZzz> jr@halley:~> ll .twinkle/.cmdsock
Oct 06 04:57:49 <jOERG_zzZZzz> srwxr-xr-x 1 jr users 0 30. Sep 00:55 .twinkle/.cmdsock
Oct 06 04:58:23 <alphaone> Ah, I tried twinkle yesterday
Oct 06 04:58:29 <alphaone> It's a nice program
Oct 06 04:59:08 <jOERG_zzZZzz> probably I'll get kicked in a moment, anyway...
Oct 06 04:59:13 <jOERG_zzZZzz> jr@halley:~> twinkle --help-cli
Oct 06 04:59:17 <jOERG_zzZZzz> call            Call someone
Oct 06 04:59:21 <jOERG_zzZZzz> answer          Answer an incoming call
Oct 06 04:59:25 <jOERG_zzZZzz> answerbye       Answer an incoming call or end a call
Oct 06 04:59:29 <jOERG_zzZZzz> reject          Reject an incoming call
Oct 06 04:59:33 <jOERG_zzZZzz> redirect        Redirect an incoming call
Oct 06 04:59:37 <jOERG_zzZZzz> transfer        Transfer a standing call
Oct 06 04:59:41 <jOERG_zzZZzz> bye             End a call
Oct 06 04:59:45 <jOERG_zzZZzz> hold            Put a call on-hold
Oct 06 04:59:49 <jOERG_zzZZzz> retrieve        Retrieve a held call
Oct 06 04:59:53 <jOERG_zzZZzz> conference      Join 2 calls in a 3-way conference
Oct 06 04:59:57 <jOERG_zzZZzz> mute            Mute a line
Oct 06 05:00:01 <jOERG_zzZZzz> dtmf            Send DTMF
Oct 06 05:00:02 <alphaone> jOERG_zzZZzz: twinkle is c++/qt, right?
Oct 06 05:00:05 <jOERG_zzZZzz> redial          Repeat last call
Oct 06 05:00:17 <jOERG_zzZZzz> register        Register your phone at a registrar
Oct 06 05:00:21 <jOERG_zzZZzz> deregister      De-register your phone at a registrar
Oct 06 05:00:25 <jOERG_zzZZzz> fetch_reg       Fetch registrations from registrar
Oct 06 05:00:29 <jOERG_zzZZzz> options         Get capabilities of another SIP endpoint
Oct 06 05:00:33 <jOERG_zzZZzz> line            Toggle between phone lines
Oct 06 05:00:37 <jOERG_zzZZzz> dnd             Do not disturb
Oct 06 05:00:41 <jOERG_zzZZzz> auto_answer     Auto answer
Oct 06 05:00:45 <jOERG_zzZZzz> user            Show users / set active user
Oct 06 05:00:49 <jOERG_zzZZzz> zrtp            ZRTP command for voice encryption
Oct 06 05:00:53 <jOERG_zzZZzz> message         Send an instant message
Oct 06 05:00:57 <jOERG_zzZZzz> presence        Publish your presence state
Oct 06 05:01:01 <jOERG_zzZZzz> quit            Quit
Oct 06 05:01:05 <jOERG_zzZZzz> help            Get help on a command
Oct 06 05:01:05 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: mickey|tw: all this piped thru .cmdsock
Oct 06 05:01:05 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Oct 06 05:01:12 <DocScrutinizer> though the "body" (=cli-core-app) is qt-free
Oct 06 05:01:41 <mickey|tw> that sounds not too bad
Oct 06 05:01:53 <mickey|tw> if you have Qt, accessing DBus is a breeze anyways
Oct 06 05:01:54 <DocScrutinizer> you can compile a cli-nly version, by specifying --no-qt or sth like that
Oct 06 05:02:58 <DocScrutinizer> I know twinkle relatively well, I think it would make for a resonable sip-core for OM
Oct 06 05:03:21 <mickey|tw> cool
Oct 06 05:03:46 <DocScrutinizer> alas I never managed to talk Michel de BOer (author) into using dbus and/or python binding for scripting
Oct 06 05:04:03 <mickey|tw> he really should
Oct 06 05:04:18 <mickey|tw> what about our internal work on VoIP though?
Oct 06 05:04:31 <DocScrutinizer> he's more interested in mere SIP-hacking. GUI always been a horror to him
Oct 06 05:04:32 <mickey|tw> is that duplicating or orthogonal to twinkle?
Oct 06 05:04:39 <mickey|tw> (gui) hehe
Oct 06 05:04:59 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: I know how he feels :-)
Oct 06 05:05:12 <DocScrutinizer> (dup/L) dunno about internal OM sip proj
Oct 06 05:05:58 <DocScrutinizer> What I know is robustness of twinkle's sip implementation
Oct 06 05:06:25 <DocScrutinizer> (I busted quite some bugs in there ;-)
Oct 06 05:06:47 <mickey|tw> sounds good
Oct 06 05:06:57 * mickey|tw notes to "list of things to inspect"
Oct 06 05:07:15 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Oct 06 05:07:32 <mwester> re: recent mail on distro list --- so who exactly is working on 2008.x at this point?
Oct 06 05:09:43 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: which version twinkle you tried?
Oct 06 05:09:49 <mickey|tw> hmm who exactly? tick, erin, olv, john, jeremy, regina, wendy, and a bit of holger IIRC
Oct 06 05:10:01 <mickey|tw> julian as well i might think
Oct 06 05:10:13 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: 1.0.1
Oct 06 05:10:42 <mwester> Hmm... ok.  Long list, but I don't think I ever see most of them on IRC.  Shame.
Oct 06 05:11:19 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: duh, 1.2 isn't even up to date. 1.0.1 wasn't that bad, but it's a hige diff to most recent version
Oct 06 05:11:47 <DocScrutinizer> *huge
Oct 06 05:12:46 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: look at twinklephone.com for recent version and changelog ;-)
Oct 06 05:41:42 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rcb428650f456 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
Oct 06 05:41:42 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] work around deep sleep recaming bug as documented in
Oct 06 05:41:42 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024
Oct 06 05:41:42 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: NOTE: Might play with the heuristics to fine-tune
Oct 06 05:41:46 <mickey|tw> ok, here we are
Oct 06 05:41:50 <mickey|tw> lets see whether that makes a difference
Oct 06 06:12:38 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03seeseekey * r299 10/umaf/:
Oct 06 06:13:38 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03seeseekey * r300 10/ (2 files):
Oct 06 06:28:52 <methril> morning
Oct 06 06:34:03 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r0d3b9b0d76cd 10/src/zhone: use cairo for signal graph
Oct 06 06:39:18 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03seeseekey * r301 10/ (branches/ tags/ trunk/ umaf/):
Oct 06 06:39:37 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03seeseekey * r302 10/trunk/umaf/:
Oct 06 06:41:26 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r407d9dd3f2d6 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/ (7 files): oeventsd: Clean the code
Oct 06 06:55:15 <quickdev> Hey
Oct 06 06:55:19 <mickey|tw> yo
Oct 06 06:59:28 <quickdev> you added AT%SLEEP? fine :)
Oct 06 07:01:54 <quickdev> mickey|tw, did alphaone tell you to document suspend? :)
Oct 06 07:02:07 <alphaone> quickdev: I think I forgot
Oct 06 07:02:24 <mickey|tw> he forgot
Oct 06 07:02:27 <mickey|tw> but i read the backlog
Oct 06 07:02:29 <mickey|tw> it's done
Oct 06 07:02:30 <quickdev> alphaone, he already did it, that's why I asked ;)
Oct 06 07:02:58 <mickey|tw> Warning: I'm about to break org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM a bit
Oct 06 07:03:24 <alphaone> :-)
Oct 06 07:05:26 <quickdev> I rely on "a bit", hehe
Oct 06 10:06:30 <quickdev> Ainulindale, here?
Oct 06 10:37:03 <shiv> Hi, can someone point me to Power management related documents?
Oct 06 10:37:41 <quickdev> alphaone, is it possible to get the date of a sms?
Oct 06 10:37:53 <alphaone> okay, I think I have gps working ootb for GTA01
Oct 06 10:38:01 <alphaone> quickdev: Already is
Oct 06 10:38:33 <quickdev> alphaone, through retrieve message?
Oct 06 10:38:56 <alphaone> in features (which is a hashmap) under the key "timestamp"
Oct 06 10:38:58 <shiv> I just want to know is "software developers manual" is open?
Oct 06 10:39:03 <alphaone> But the format is still not final
Oct 06 10:39:14 <shiv> whare can I download it?
Oct 06 10:39:23 <shiv> Thanks for any help...
Oct 06 10:39:38 <Hire> http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Main_Page
Oct 06 10:39:57 <Hire> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/index.html;hb=HEAD <-- see here 
Oct 06 10:40:25 <quickdev> alphaone, http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob;f=xml/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.xml;h=c966a298c90c6b6207bd1c1533a54958b5452947;hb=HEAD - features is missing here, isn't it?
Oct 06 10:40:25 <alphaone> quickdev: yeah, RetrieveMessag(book) returns index(only in Messagebook), number, text, featuremap
Oct 06 10:40:29 <Viiru> shiv: I don't think an actual developers manual has been written. All the information is open, and available, but it might be a bit difficult to find.
Oct 06 10:40:40 <quickdev> brb
Oct 06 10:40:47 <alphaone> quickdev: It's maybe a week  old
Oct 06 10:40:59 <alphaone> Yes, it's missing in the docs
Oct 06 10:41:21 <Hire> shiv: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerControl.html;hb=HEAD
Oct 06 10:41:22 <alphaone> I'll add it as soon as I got GTA01 GPS working (almost) ootb on fso-image
Oct 06 10:41:49 <shiv> Viiru: I just want to know the information and APIS related to accessing clock and voltage...
Oct 06 10:43:34 <shiv> Hire: are there apis related to dbus?
Oct 06 10:43:37 <Hire> shiv: clock and voltage? I don't know... you need to talk about it with michey
Oct 06 10:43:40 <Hire> yes
Oct 06 10:44:25 <shiv> Hire: I want to write a kernel module to access cpu clk and voltage...
Oct 06 10:45:56 <Hire> ah
Oct 06 10:46:09 <Hire> you can try to send an email to the ML
Oct 06 10:46:15 <Hire> documentation / kernel
Oct 06 10:46:33 <shiv> Ok.. Thanks
Oct 06 10:55:02 <quickdev> alphaone, would be great :)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 06 11:05:37 2008
Oct 06 11:07:34 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r524f2b2db498 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): oeventsd: Added the CallListContains trigger
Oct 06 11:10:31 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r39ac7d7351c0 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
Oct 06 11:10:31 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: [ogsmd] change SIM phonebook API to support multiple phonebooks
Oct 06 11:10:31 <CIA-57> freesmartphone.org: Warning: This is an API breakage in org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM !
Oct 06 11:31:56 <quickdev> Ainulindale?
Oct 06 11:36:10 <quickdev> Does someone know if there are any plans with the openmoko-contacts application?
Oct 06 11:40:11 <quickdev> alphaone, I'd like to code a contacts application. Shouldn't there be an additional layer between this application and frameworkd for the storage? Maybe integrating the evolution data server?
Oct 06 11:41:02 <alphaone> quickdev: Yeah, that's what pim is supposed to become
Oct 06 11:41:08 <alphaone> gotta run now, bye
Oct 06 11:41:19 <alphaone> pypimd
Oct 06 11:41:32 <alphaone> I think it's in the freesmartphone repo
Oct 06 11:41:58 <quickdev> ok, thanks
Oct 06 11:44:30 <Weiss> why does there need to be an intermediate layer? (curious)
Oct 06 11:46:14 <quickdev> Weiss, in order to have a common pim storage system. Frameworkd merely provides sim contacts and sms. But what about contacts from evolution or mails as messagse?
Oct 06 11:46:37 <Weiss> ok, thought that might be what it was
Oct 06 11:48:30 <quickdev> s
Oct 06 12:19:02 <quickdev> alphaone, could you update retrieve message? :)
Oct 06 12:38:38 <mwester> re
Oct 06 12:40:51 <quickdev> hey mwester 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 03:14:00 2008