**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 04 02:59:57 2008
Dec 04 06:42:41 <kd8ikt> will it ever? how would one go about setting boot options
Dec 04 06:42:58 <kd8ikt> a /boot/qi.conf?
Dec 04 06:44:20 <mrmoku> kd8ikt: for kernel options /boot/append-GTA02
Dec 04 06:46:47 <kd8ikt> is that how it does it or...
Dec 04 06:47:28 <mrmoku> yep, works already with current Qi
Dec 04 06:48:52 <kd8ikt> nice
Dec 04 06:49:05 * kd8ikt jumps on the wagon
Dec 04 06:53:11 <Sargun> Qi is marked stable
Dec 04 06:53:12 <Sargun> ?
Dec 04 06:54:44 <mrmoku> what is stable regarding mokos  ? ;)
Dec 04 06:55:16 <mrmoku> Qi works quite nice though...
Dec 04 06:58:24 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: ping - openmoko-calculator2 does bail out in do_package_write_ipk :(
Dec 04 07:57:37 <methril> morning
Dec 04 08:27:29 <Ainulindale> mrmoku|work: package was renamed vala-terminal
Dec 04 08:27:33 <Ainulindale> err, no sorry
Dec 04 08:27:42 <Ainulindale> (just waking up)
Dec 04 08:31:57 <Sargun> Are there any good tutorials on writing GUI-based Apps for FSO?
Dec 04 09:07:39 <vishal> hello has anyone used ublox agps service , can anyone tell me how to use it?
Dec 04 09:15:27 <vishal> hello anybody der :)
Dec 04 09:15:29 <vishal> ?
Dec 04 09:15:56 <dent> nein :)
Dec 04 09:18:23 <Sargun> are you using FSO?
Dec 04 09:20:59 <vishal> no i am using 2008.8 release
Dec 04 09:43:28 <MarcOChapeau> good morning everyone
Dec 04 09:43:37 <MarcOChapeau> is apmd of any use on SHR ?
Dec 04 09:43:44 <Sargun> Are there any good tutorials on writing GUI-based Apps for FSO? :-/
Dec 04 09:44:54 <kd8ikt> mornin Ainulindale 
Dec 04 09:45:14 <Ainulindale> Huh?
Dec 04 09:45:25 <kd8ikt> just wolke up right?
Dec 04 09:45:26 <Ainulindale> Ah I was wondering how you knew I was here
Dec 04 09:45:31 <Ainulindale> Yeah =)
Dec 04 09:45:34 <Ainulindale> But at work right now
Dec 04 09:45:38 <Ainulindale> MarcOChapeau: I don't think so
Dec 04 09:45:50 <Ainulindale> Check with/without
Dec 04 09:46:07 <kd8ikt> as for gui apps in using the fso dbus
Dec 04 09:46:09 <kd8ikt> ...
Dec 04 09:46:26 <Ainulindale> Sargun: no tutorial that I know about
Dec 04 09:46:32 <Ainulindale> Sargun: what would you want to do as a GUI?
Dec 04 09:46:39 <kd8ikt> theres a few lil tuts out there but the gui part is... sort of up to you and any other toolkits
Dec 04 09:46:49 <kd8ikt> like gtk or enlightenment
Dec 04 09:47:02 <kd8ikt> python using gtk... get the point of this?
Dec 04 09:47:05 <Ainulindale> kd8ikt: tuts? Never seen any :-)
Dec 04 09:47:13 <kd8ikt> tut tut lol
Dec 04 09:47:14 <Ainulindale> (Tits, though...)
Dec 04 09:47:34 <kd8ikt> nah on freesmartphone they have a general tutorial on using the dbus for an app
Dec 04 09:47:50 <Sargun> Ainulindale, I want to write a simple App, and I'm wondering if there any recommendations on integrating into the UI on FSO?
Dec 04 09:48:09 <Ainulindale> Sargun: and my question was, what would you want your app to do?
Dec 04 09:48:15 <Sargun> Also, I'm wondering if I get to take over the screen with full screen?
Dec 04 09:48:24 <Sargun> I was planning on writing a -simple- tracking app.
Dec 04 09:48:30 <Ainulindale> GPS tracking?
Dec 04 09:48:36 <kd8ikt> it has to send a intercontenental missle towards Ainulindale's gps position
Dec 04 09:48:44 <Ainulindale> kd8ikt: T-t-t!
Dec 04 09:48:48 <kd8ikt> :D
Dec 04 09:48:53 <Sargun> Ainulindale, have you heard of loopt?
Dec 04 09:48:58 <Ainulindale> No.
Dec 04 09:49:17 <Sargun> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loopt 
Dec 04 09:49:21 <Sargun> I was going to write that for the OM
Dec 04 09:49:35 <Ainulindale> TangoGPS almost does that already
Dec 04 09:49:41 <Ainulindale> (i.e. friends and foes on the map)
Dec 04 09:49:46 <Sargun> ah
Dec 04 09:49:47 <Sargun> damnit.
Dec 04 09:49:47 <Ainulindale> Sargun: In your case
Dec 04 09:49:56 <Ainulindale> You don't even have to use FSO for that
Dec 04 09:50:00 <Sargun> Well, I'm going to write a small mapping app.
Dec 04 09:50:02 <Ainulindale> As long as you use GPSD
Dec 04 09:50:09 <Ainulindale> It'll do all the work for you
Dec 04 09:50:10 <Sargun> Well, I want to write it for FSO.
Dec 04 09:50:19 <Ainulindale> As I just told you
Dec 04 09:50:20 <Sargun> I've already written some of the backend stuff.
Dec 04 09:50:30 <Ainulindale> There's no meaning in "writing it for FSO"
Dec 04 09:50:33 <Sargun>  I'm just wondering if there are any uhm, docs on the GUI.
Dec 04 09:50:34 <Ainulindale> there's no difference in this case
Dec 04 09:50:45 <Sargun> Ainulindale, Ok, so the WM doesn't do anything odd?
Dec 04 09:50:55 <Ainulindale> Why would it?
Dec 04 09:50:59 <Sargun> who knows?
Dec 04 09:51:04 <Ainulindale> who cares? :-)
Dec 04 09:51:09 <Sargun> heh
Dec 04 09:51:18 <Ainulindale> Sargun: It does nothing odd I know about
Dec 04 09:51:41 <Ainulindale> Sargun: building this kind of app is as building an app on your desktop
Dec 04 09:51:55 <MarcOChapeau> Ainulindale: ok, I'll disable, then uninstall apmd and see what happens :)
Dec 04 09:51:56 <Ainulindale> So no other docs than the one of the toolkit or your choice are necessary
Dec 04 09:52:01 <Ainulindale> MarcOChapeau: nice :-)
Dec 04 09:52:49 <polz> Ainulindale: btw, I haven't been able to upgrade shr in a while
Dec 04 09:52:54 <Ainulindale> Why?
Dec 04 09:52:56 <MarcOChapeau> Ainulindale: another quick question, why on earth would we need portmap ?
Dec 04 09:53:12 <Ainulindale> nfs mounts
Dec 04 09:53:12 <polz> Ainulindale: something seems to depend on all the locale packages
Dec 04 09:53:21 <Ainulindale> polz: what?
Dec 04 09:53:31 <polz> Ainulindale: and if I run the upgrade, I run out of spacež
Dec 04 09:53:36 <polz> I don't know :(
Dec 04 09:53:44 <Ainulindale> polz: then reflash =)
Dec 04 09:54:18 <polz> are you sure it's going to work? I mean, are the images really still small enough?
Dec 04 09:54:19 <Ainulindale> gromez: he's not here right now :-)
Dec 04 09:54:25 <Ainulindale> polz: yep
Dec 04 09:54:49 <gromez> Ainulindale: i'll wait for him :)
Dec 04 09:55:49 <polz> Ainulindale: hmm... let's see...
Dec 04 09:55:57 <polz> I don't _really_ need a phone today :P
Dec 04 09:56:23 <Sargun> hm, odd question, no particular reason I'm asking this here, but since you guys are smart, I have a question
Dec 04 09:56:33 <Sargun> How do phones do voicemail notifications?
Dec 04 09:56:43 <Sargun> and could the OM/FR do it?
Dec 04 09:57:14 <polz> Ainulindale: is the latest image still the one from Nov. 28. ?
Dec 04 09:58:12 <kd8ikt> Ainulindale: my cat had kittens!
Dec 04 09:58:53 <Ainulindale> polz: IIRC
Dec 04 10:00:23 <polz> btw, if I want to use the magic echo cancelation, what would be the proper way to enable it?
Dec 04 10:01:05 <Sargun> What would be a better way to do "push" to the FR in your guy's opinion
Dec 04 10:01:21 <Sargun> by calling it and using an impossible phone number (NPA starts with 0?) 
Dec 04 10:01:32 <Sargun> and then hanging up after one ring.
Dec 04 10:01:38 <Sargun> or sending text messages
Dec 04 10:01:43 <Sargun> or something else, very clever.
Dec 04 10:02:11 <MarcOChapeau> Ainulindale: nfs mounts on this kind of device ?.....
Dec 04 10:02:27 <MarcOChapeau> do we really want this as a default for "normal" users ?
Dec 04 10:03:04 <MarcOChapeau> people who want that and who know what it is and how to set it up can add it thenselves...
Dec 04 10:03:27 <MarcOChapeau> making that a default is just g33kyn3SS
Dec 04 10:04:06 <kd8ikt> i think its nice
Dec 04 10:04:41 <kd8ikt> and poses no security risks, nor hinders everyday use
Dec 04 10:05:07 <kd8ikt> i think of it as a reminder "hey if you wanna use nfs heres a lil sample fstab
Dec 04 10:07:53 <mrmoku|w1rk> Ainulindale: any idea for my calculator problem? if I remove it from the list of depends it does the same thing for openmoko-icon-theme-standard2...
Dec 04 10:18:13 <Ainulindale> mrmoku|w1rk: yeah
Dec 04 10:18:19 <Ainulindale> I bet it complains about LICENSE
Dec 04 10:18:26 <Ainulindale> If it is
Dec 04 10:18:41 <Ainulindale> Modify openmoko2.bbclass add LICENSE="GPL" instead of what's here
Dec 04 10:20:04 <mrmoku|w1rk> ahh, remember having read something about that license issue... thank you.. trying now
Dec 04 10:21:06 <mrmoku|w1rk> Ainulindale: by the way, how's your mood today? still pissed?
Dec 04 10:21:31 <Sargun> why is Ainulindale supposed to be pissed?
Dec 04 10:21:45 <mrmoku|w1rk> no, but he was yesterday
Dec 04 10:22:32 <mrmoku|w1rk> yo, the license thing did the trick :-)
Dec 04 10:27:00 <Ainulindale> mrmoku|w1rk: no pretty happy
Dec 04 10:27:09 <Ainulindale> mrmoku|w1rk: I made my guitar work again
Dec 04 10:27:21 <Ainulindale> I spent all yesterday evening trying to figure out why my audio rack wasn't working
Dec 04 10:27:28 <Ainulindale> Turned out I just forgot to plug the power
Dec 04 10:27:38 <Ainulindale> (Floppy power, didn't use that for years)
Dec 04 10:29:30 * raster plugs Ainulindale in
Dec 04 10:29:40 <Ainulindale> :-)
Dec 04 10:29:43 <Ainulindale> mrmoku|w1rk: by the way
Dec 04 10:29:46 <Ainulindale> Check latest shr-overlay
Dec 04 10:29:48 <Ainulindale> I modified it
Dec 04 10:29:56 <Ainulindale> You now just have to change a single line to compile from local sources
Dec 04 10:30:49 <Ainulindale> raster: hey since you're not hiding
Dec 04 10:30:52 <Ainulindale> =)
Dec 04 10:31:15 <Ainulindale> Would you be able to tell me if bumping python-evas SRCREV needs bumping on EFL_SRCREV side?
Dec 04 10:31:48 <mrmoku|w1rk> Ainulindale: yep, saw your changes
Dec 04 10:32:28 * mrmoku|w1rk had a construct of a local extra git repo as remote for that, which is now unnecessary
Dec 04 10:33:39 * raster goes back into hiding
Dec 04 10:34:10 <raster> Ainulindale: i would normally advbise tgo bump both so they are in sync
Dec 04 10:34:20 <Ainulindale> But?
Dec 04 10:34:27 <raster> the best thing is to bump it separately and see
Dec 04 10:34:33 <raster> if the compile fails - u know u cant
Dec 04 10:34:34 <raster> :)
Dec 04 10:34:39 <Ainulindale> Heh
Dec 04 10:37:43 <raster> miun u
Dec 04 10:37:53 <raster> u may want the latest head rev anyway
Dec 04 10:37:58 <raster> gtk and qt are doign stupid things
Dec 04 10:38:05 <Ainulindale> That is to say?
Dec 04 10:38:10 <raster> like assuming every configure request of theirs gets met by a configurenotify from the wm
Dec 04 10:38:26 <raster> at leats gtk incriments a counter when it treis to move/resize a window
Dec 04 10:38:30 <raster> and when it gets a notify event
Dec 04 10:38:33 <raster> it decrements
Dec 04 10:38:37 <raster> while this counter > 0
Dec 04 10:38:41 <raster> it doesnt redraw
Dec 04 10:38:46 <raster> whihc is entirely wrong
Dec 04 10:38:52 <raster> in x with a wm managing you
Dec 04 10:39:06 <raster> the wm may happily ignore any configure request if it so desires
Dec 04 10:39:12 <raster> and thus your request will do nothng
Dec 04 10:39:29 <raster> anyway i forced e to send a confgurenotify anyway
Dec 04 12:17:49 <dolf1074> me hates windows
Dec 04 12:25:20 * CM_work too
Dec 04 12:32:59 <dolf1074> What have you learned today: If you made your partitions in ubuntu, don't try to repartition one in windows. It will brake everything
Dec 04 12:33:40 <dolf1074> What have you learned today: linux rulz, I had my partitions back in less than 2 minutes :)
Dec 04 12:40:32 <Ainulindale> dolf1074: meh :-)
Dec 04 12:48:38 <dolf1074> Ainulindale: but it isn't solved yet, my partitions are back. I can already mount on them. But gparted doesn't see them :s
Dec 04 12:49:02 <dolf1074> looks like it's my not-lucky day today
Dec 04 12:52:27 <dolf1074> Why do I still need windows to capture from my tv card :( sigh
Dec 04 12:57:01 <CM_work> What tv-card is it?
Dec 04 12:57:02 <dent> dolf1074: just out of curiosity... how did you restore the partition table/did it include recovering abroken FS?
Dec 04 13:13:04 <dolf1074> CM_work: it is a compro videomate gold II
Dec 04 13:14:36 <dolf1074> dent: testdisk and it had only to reinvent the lost partition table. the partition tables itself were fine. (I find the error why it didn't want to show in garted, the extended partition was 1 block to long)
Dec 04 13:15:07 <dolf1074> now trying to resolve that with fdisk
Dec 04 13:16:40 <dent> dolf1074: didn't know testdisk, thanks for the tip (my brother managed to mysteriously screw one partition...)
Dec 04 14:04:28 <Hire> ainulindale: can you regenerate an new image of SHR?
Dec 04 14:04:35 <Ainulindale> Why?
Dec 04 14:04:52 <Hire> the lastest is a bit old
Dec 04 14:05:02 <Ainulindale> There's no change
Dec 04 14:05:05 <Ainulindale> Not that much anyway
Dec 04 14:05:11 <Ainulindale> I'll wait for mrmoku|w1rk's patches
Dec 04 14:05:14 <Hire> and it haven't tha last revamp of quickdev
Dec 04 14:05:22 <Ainulindale> The last revamp isn't on the buildhost either
Dec 04 14:05:23 <Hire> hasn't 
Dec 04 14:05:24 <Ainulindale> It won't work
Dec 04 14:05:35 <Hire> but i have tested yesterday 
Dec 04 14:05:52 <Ainulindale> Locally or on the buildhost?
Dec 04 14:06:00 <Hire> Locally
Dec 04 14:06:08 <Ainulindale> It's not stable :-)
Dec 04 14:06:17 <Ainulindale> I'll wait for quickdev's "go"
Dec 04 14:07:12 <Hire> ok I see :)
Dec 04 14:07:36 <Ainulindale> There's a bunch of things he has to do before any official package hits the buildhost
Dec 04 14:07:48 <Ainulindale> such has settling some segv
Dec 04 14:07:55 <Ainulindale> s/has/as/
Dec 04 14:08:25 <Ainulindale> By the way I won't be here tonight, I'm going to play the guitar loudly with my boss =)
Dec 04 14:16:23 <Hire> cool :D
Dec 04 14:16:36 <Hire> and i am will off 5-6 dic
Dec 04 14:16:44 <Hire> I will be to much drunk to stay here
Dec 04 14:16:49 <Ainulindale> Bad boy.
Dec 04 14:17:01 <Hire> indeed
Dec 04 14:32:31 <Dave> Ainulindale, how's tricks?
Dec 04 14:32:39 <Ainulindale> tricks?
Dec 04 14:33:00 <Hire> tricks?
Dec 04 14:33:06 <Hire>  /kick Dave
Dec 04 14:36:32 <Dave> Ainulindale, Business? :)
Dec 04 14:37:23 <Ainulindale> Could you make sentences, please?
Dec 04 14:40:47 <Dave> :)
Dec 04 14:40:53 <Dave> What's new in your world Ainu?
Dec 04 14:41:07 <Ainulindale> Mostly nothing
Dec 04 14:41:17 <Ainulindale> I just scratched my nose if you're interested
Dec 04 14:43:39 <Hire> i am working
Dec 04 14:43:58 <Dave> :p
Dec 04 14:44:10 <Hire> and now I am listening Tool - Rosetta stoned
Dec 04 14:45:21 <Ainulindale> (some NOFX and Ramones here, I'm not used to listen to that, but that's what I'll play tonight)
Dec 04 14:46:01 <Hire> wow
Dec 04 14:46:07 <Hire> punk
Dec 04 14:46:25 <Hire> some years ago I saw a nofx's live
Dec 04 14:46:35 <Ainulindale> WEll I'd like to play what I'm listening to
Dec 04 14:46:40 <Ainulindale> But I listen to progressive rock
Dec 04 14:46:45 <Ainulindale> And this is intensively technical
Dec 04 14:46:45 <Hire> in Italy, Cagliari
Dec 04 14:46:53 <Hire> eheh
Dec 04 14:46:56 <Ainulindale> Hire: By the way, do you know Area? Malibran?
Dec 04 14:47:01 <Ainulindale> (two italian bands)
Dec 04 14:47:05 <Hire> yeah
Dec 04 14:47:09 <Ainulindale> Museo Rosenbach too IIRC
Dec 04 14:47:17 <Ainulindale> and PFM
Dec 04 14:47:35 <Ainulindale> (Prematia Forneria Marconi)
Dec 04 14:47:47 <Ainulindale> Ah, and New Trolls
Dec 04 14:47:56 <Ainulindale> I'm listening to quite a lot of italian progressive rock in fact
Dec 04 14:47:59 <Hire> Malibran is a progressive rock band ?
Dec 04 14:48:05 <Ainulindale> IIRC yes
Dec 04 14:48:13 <Ainulindale> They're some kind of Jethro Tull fans
Dec 04 14:48:21 * CM_work loves both Tool and NOFX
Dec 04 14:48:58 <Hire> ehi
Dec 04 14:49:04 <Hire> but Area is a jazz band
Dec 04 14:49:05 <Hire> :D
Dec 04 14:49:16 <Hire> if i am not wrong ..
Dec 04 14:49:33 <Hire> however if you like the progressive rock you have to listen Bluvertigo ;)
Dec 04 14:49:35 <Hire> or
Dec 04 14:49:39 <Hire> Liftiba 
Dec 04 14:49:44 <CM_work> Ainulindale: Saw Gojira live a month ago, talk about being "intensively technical" 
Dec 04 14:49:50 <Hire> ( italian bands )
Dec 04 14:50:13 <Hire> and Franco Battiato too 
Dec 04 14:51:41 <Hire> i prefer alternative rock, alternative metal, grunge, indie, heavy metal, folk rock, progressive rock 
Dec 04 14:51:57 <Ainulindale> Hire: jazz / prog rock
Dec 04 14:52:01 <Hire> and eletronic minimal 
Dec 04 14:52:01 <Ainulindale> (for Areaà
Dec 04 14:52:06 <Hire> yes :)
Dec 04 14:52:06 <Ainulindale> CM_work: DOn't know about Gojira
Dec 04 14:52:11 <Ainulindale> CM_work: But my nightmare is Dream Theater
Dec 04 14:52:18 <Ainulindale> (And I'm going to see Magma in january)
Dec 04 14:52:40 <Dave> Hire :D
Dec 04 14:52:56 <Hire> aha Magma!
Dec 04 14:53:00 <Hire> I saw them ! cool
Dec 04 14:53:07 <Hire> i LOVES Air :)
Dec 04 14:53:13 <Hire> love argh
Dec 04 14:53:23 <Hire> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_(band)
Dec 04 14:53:29 <Ainulindale> AIr, the french bad?
Dec 04 14:53:31 <Ainulindale> +n
Dec 04 14:53:34 <Ainulindale> Sexy Boy & al?
Dec 04 14:53:38 <Hire> yeah
Dec 04 14:55:23 <Sup3rkiddo> playya, poke
Dec 04 14:55:38 <playya> Sup3rkiddo, poke
Dec 04 14:57:17 <Dave> 32 skidoo
Dec 04 14:58:23 <Hire> rebooootttt
Dec 04 15:19:44 <CIA-59> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r0fd56bffb7e7 10/framework/ (controller.py objectquery.py subsystem.py): give subsystems and objects a chance to properly shut down
Dec 04 15:28:56 <bumbl> hi
Dec 04 15:29:05 <bumbl> anything new from the image front?
Dec 04 15:29:26 <Hire> absolutely nothing
Dec 04 15:29:44 <bumbl> anything new from the Hire is drunk front :p
Dec 04 15:31:21 <CIA-59> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra6bca2e7e40d 10/framework/ (resource.py subsystems/odeviced/idlenotifier.py): resource: disable resource on object shutdown
Dec 04 15:34:26 <CIA-59> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r0586dfe1deb6 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: odeviced: [kernel26] turn off LED on shut down
Dec 04 15:42:28 <bumbl> Hire: how "good" is the android system?
Dec 04 15:46:19 <Hire> it isn't good
Dec 04 15:46:23 <Hire> it is slow
Dec 04 15:46:27 <Hire> it is limited
Dec 04 15:46:36 <Hire> and uses java
Dec 04 15:46:38 <bumbl> :(
Dec 04 15:46:45 <Hire> I prefer SHR :)
Dec 04 15:46:50 <Hire> with opimd :)
Dec 04 15:46:58 <bumbl> and i thought it might replace shr until opimd comes
Dec 04 15:47:01 <CM_work> I have to try the latest build
Dec 04 15:47:07 <CM_work> Just want my wsod to stop
Dec 04 15:47:16 <bumbl> which might be next year
Dec 04 15:47:58 <Dave> opimpd
Dec 04 15:53:03 <TAsn> Ainulindale, I think I may write a pim daemon tonight (don't worry it will be in c)
Dec 04 15:53:19 <TAsn> at first it my only have basic features, though it will have a dbus ifcae
Dec 04 15:53:21 <TAsn> iface
Dec 04 15:53:47 <TAsn> although it will use sqlite, in future versions it can be easily replaced by libebook or anything alike
Dec 04 15:53:56 <TAsn> it's just that I really need my contacts. ;]
Dec 04 15:54:17 <TAsn> so I wanna know if there's a preferred way you want me to write it in, or anything I should know about.
Dec 04 15:56:34 <bumbl> TAsn: good
Dec 04 15:57:05 <bumbl> sqlite is nice, contacts and sms and the thing is *thumbs up*
Dec 04 15:57:42 <TAsn> bumbl, sqlite is a fast solution
Dec 04 15:57:49 <Dave> \o/
Dec 04 15:58:07 <TAsn> and if I design it correctly, moving it to libebook will be quick
Dec 04 15:58:10 <TAsn> and easy.
Dec 04 15:58:44 <Hire> TAsn: are you working on opimd?
Dec 04 15:58:48 <TAsn> Hire, no.
Dec 04 15:58:57 <TAsn> from what I know opimd is written in python.
Dec 04 15:59:10 <Dave> *hissssssss*
Dec 04 15:59:13 <TAsn> I'm writing a pimd in c ;]
Dec 04 15:59:31 <TAsn> it's just that I can't wait that much time for opimd
Dec 04 15:59:42 <Hire> you are right
Dec 04 15:59:51 <Hire> but it is for SHR isn't?
Dec 04 16:00:00 <TAsn> what's for shr?
Dec 04 16:00:13 <TAsn> what I'm writing?
Dec 04 16:01:30 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|flu|zzZZz, just wondering.....is it right to offer a Shutdown method over DBus....from what i see in the commitdiff, it shuts down the mainloop...thats sort of giving access to all programs having a Framework proxy object to enable them to shutdown the daemon
Dec 04 16:01:59 <Sup3rkiddo> my english sucks
Dec 04 16:03:12 <TAsn> Sup3rkiddo, You may be right. The privileges policies in the moko are somewhat non-existent, and therefore, since everything is running as root, it doesn't really matter now. Though in the future it may be a big issue.
Dec 04 16:03:59 <Sup3rkiddo> TAsn, there is the DBus policy file, but yet again all apps run as root
Dec 04 16:04:05 <Sup3rkiddo> now
Dec 04 16:04:07 <TAsn> Sup3rkiddo, exactly.
Dec 04 16:04:33 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|ICxxxx, mickey|flu|zzZZz, just wondering.....is it right to offer a Shutdown method over DBus....from what i see in the commitdiff, it shuts down the mainloop...thats sort of giving access to all programs having a Framework proxy object to enable them to shutdown the daemon
Dec 04 16:04:36 <Sup3rkiddo> ^^^
Dec 04 16:05:17 <Sup3rkiddo> and
Dec 04 16:05:24 <mickey|ICxxxx> true, access to this method (as well as several others) should be constrained by dbus policy
Dec 04 16:05:26 <Sup3rkiddo> <TAsn> Sup3rkiddo, You may be right. The privileges policies in the moko are somewhat non-existent, and therefore, since everything is running as root, it doesn't really matter now. Though in the future it may be a big issue.
Dec 04 16:05:51 <lindi-> TAsn: i don't run things as root :)
Dec 04 16:06:21 * mrmoku|w1rk is watching "Running task 5880 of 5887"
Dec 04 16:06:23 <Ainulindale> TAsn: feel free to do that then but I think it'll be redundant with (soon to come) opimd :-)
Dec 04 16:06:42 <Ainulindale> Well anyway
Dec 04 16:06:43 * bumbl hopes for a working image
Dec 04 16:06:45 <Ainulindale> Too much guitar here
Dec 04 16:06:50 <Ainulindale> I'm going to put my fingers in cold ice
Dec 04 16:06:52 <Ainulindale> They burn
Dec 04 16:07:00 <TAsn> lindi-, I think you are the only saint in the land of sinners ;]
Dec 04 16:07:08 <mwester> We could implement something similar to selinux!!   That way, it wouldn't matter if the phone didn't actually work, because the arcane security mechanisms would ensure one would never be able to use it in the first place, and thus would never know that the phone doesn't actually work!  :p :D
Dec 04 16:07:14 <TAsn> Ainulindale, isn't it really soon to come?
Dec 04 16:07:14 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|ICxxxx, oh..ok....so, prolly thats next in the agenda?
Dec 04 16:07:26 <Ainulindale> TAsn: well that's my hope
Dec 04 16:07:26 <mickey|ICxxxx> mwester: heh
Dec 04 16:07:26 <TAsn> mwester, ;]
Dec 04 16:07:31 <bumbl> wasn't there a selinux for openmoko gsoc project
Dec 04 16:07:44 <mwester> ACLs on a per-method basis!
Dec 04 16:07:53 <mwester> What fun! what joy! :D
Dec 04 16:07:54 <TAsn> Ainulindale, that's my hope as well, though since I don't believe it'll happen any time soon, it might be a good idea.
Dec 04 16:07:58 <Sup3rkiddo> mwester, http://code.google.com/soc/2008/openmoko/appinfo.html?csaid=3A028786FB2DC977
Dec 04 16:08:06 <Sup3rkiddo> its been done!
Dec 04 16:08:27 <TAsn> Sup3rkiddo, I think he was referring to that...
Dec 04 16:08:34 <TAsn> anyhow, I'm off taking a shower.
Dec 04 16:08:35 <mickey|ICxxxx> Sup3rkiddo: not next, but once we release 1.0 of the framework API we need to go over all the methods and think about whether we want them to require privileged access or not. Then we need to realize this as a dbus conf file (for a start)
Dec 04 16:08:36 <Sup3rkiddo> yeah, didnt notice ;)
Dec 04 16:08:40 <bumbl> lindi-: how? have you added an user, patched init script and checked file permissions
Dec 04 16:08:51 <lindi-> bumbl: what init script?
Dec 04 16:08:59 <Sup3rkiddo> mickey|ICxxxx, oh...ok, but i gotta admit..it scares me ;P
Dec 04 16:08:59 <lindi-> bumbl: fso-frameworkd runs as root but the UI does not
Dec 04 16:09:14 <bumbl> lindi-: xserver-nodm
Dec 04 16:09:19 <lindi-> bumbl: I use xdm
Dec 04 16:09:27 <bumbl> lindi-: so you use debian
Dec 04 16:09:29 <TAsn> lindi-, you use debian, right?
Dec 04 16:09:32 <lindi-> yeah
Dec 04 16:09:40 <lindi-> i use xdm on all my computers anyway
Dec 04 16:31:20 <mickey|ICxxxx> PaulFertser_: ping
Dec 04 16:37:32 <a21_work> hello! \o
Dec 04 16:38:29 <a21_work> I'm getting problem with http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/newticket -> TICKET_CREATE privileges are required to perform this operation
Dec 04 16:38:47 <cjb> a21_work: you need to be logged in
Dec 04 16:38:49 <a21_work> and I'm not able to register my account for the track
Dec 04 16:38:54 <cjb> oh
Dec 04 16:39:17 <a21_work> it requires an administrative password
Dec 04 16:39:22 <a21_work> o_O
Dec 04 16:39:46 <a21_work> http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/register here, right?
Dec 04 16:40:29 <mw|> python-wifi-0.3.1.tar.gz just gives med 404, is that something others here have seen before?
Dec 04 16:41:11 <bumbl> mrmoku|w1rk: any progress with the image?
Dec 04 16:43:30 <a21_work> bumbl: a question... when u press the X on the desktop, are the buttons for shutdown and stdby grayed out for you?
Dec 04 16:43:43 <a21_work> ...in the popup
Dec 04 16:44:11 <mrmoku|w1rk> bumbl: finished and flashed... booting right now :-)
Dec 04 16:44:22 <a21_work> hello mrmoku|w1rk :)
Dec 04 16:44:32 <a21_work> \o/
Dec 04 16:44:34 <mrmoku|w1rk> ciao a21_work 
Dec 04 16:46:45 <bumbl> a21_work: yes they are
Dec 04 16:46:51 <bumbl> only lock is black
Dec 04 16:46:56 <a21_work> mh ok
Dec 04 16:46:58 <bumbl> but doesn't work because of missing pam
Dec 04 16:47:11 <a21_work> yes, I know about pam ;)
Dec 04 16:47:47 <a21_work> Ainulindale: can I register an account for shr trac?
Dec 04 16:49:00 <a21_work> ...or tell me how to open a new ticket ;)
Dec 04 16:50:36 <mw|> shr trac login I'm missing too
Dec 04 16:50:38 <Hire> yes
Dec 04 16:50:43 <Hire> you can register
Dec 04 16:51:07 <a21_work> Hire: try to complete your registration ;)
Dec 04 16:51:32 <a21_work> it does not work
Dec 04 16:51:49 <mw|> never mind about me and trac, it works now
Dec 04 16:51:53 <a21_work> it asks you an administrative password
Dec 04 16:51:58 <a21_work> oh
Dec 04 16:52:06 <a21_work> ok... I try
Dec 04 16:52:28 <Hire> i am registred on it
Dec 04 16:52:41 <a21_work> :( Another account with that name already exists.
Dec 04 16:53:07 <a21_work> oh :D it was me :D
Dec 04 16:53:14 <a21_work> nice ^_^
Dec 04 16:53:43 <a21_work> now I've my own account too
Dec 04 16:54:05 * Hire spanks a21_work with Dave
Dec 04 16:54:33 <a21_work> LOL ^_^'
Dec 04 16:54:46 <bumbl> hahaha
Dec 04 16:57:07 <Zoup> is this possible to use a 2007 PIM on SHR ?
Dec 04 16:58:51 <a21_work> nice, i've created my first ticket while logged in trac :) (many of "anonimous" were mine too :P)
Dec 04 17:02:49 <bumbl> mrmoku|w1rk: and does it boot? would you mind uploading ... I would like to test
Dec 04 17:02:53 <bumbl> if possible
Dec 04 17:07:27 <a21_work> mrmoku|w1rk: bumbl: what are you testing?
Dec 04 17:08:27 <PaulFertser_> mickey|ICxxxx: pong Hi :)
Dec 04 17:09:10 <bumbl> a21_work: mrmoku|w1rk compiled a new shr image with fast boot patches, etc afaik
Dec 04 17:09:21 <mickey|ICxxxx> PaulFertser_: hey, can you send a unified diff to the list wrt. 0710muxd?
Dec 04 17:09:55 <a21_work> bumbl: ah ok, I can remember the thread now
Dec 04 17:10:20 <PaulFertser_> mickey|ICxxxx: i can, though i'm not sure that i know how to do it best. The thing is: should we increase the buffer to be 2049 bytes long?
Dec 04 17:11:08 <mickey|ICxxxx> (diff) just diff -udbBPr against the original code
Dec 04 17:11:21 <mickey|ICxxxx> (buffer size) If you think so, sure
Dec 04 17:11:33 <PaulFertser_> mickey|ICxxxx: to optimize some probably large transfers (GPRS data?) from the phone to be exactly 2048 bytes? Or is fixing the return value of gsm0710_buffer_free enough?
Dec 04 17:11:39 <mickey|ICxxxx> we can actually make even larger, if necessary
Dec 04 17:11:40 <mickey|ICxxxx> up to us
Dec 04 17:12:08 <mickey|ICxxxx> lets go for fixing the return value first
Dec 04 17:12:15 <mickey|ICxxxx> we need to do some experiments with different buffer sizes
Dec 04 17:12:30 <PaulFertser_> mickey|ICxxxx: btw, is there a particular reason to use UIH mode, where only the header checksum is calculated?
Dec 04 17:13:53 <mickey|ICxxxx> i don't think we have alternatives, iirc we're using the "best" mode the modem can support
Dec 04 17:13:55 <mickey|ICxxxx> s/best/only/
Dec 04 17:14:57 <mwester> BTW, has anyone checked "dmesg" to see if we have any serial driver messages when things go wrong at 2048 bytes?
Dec 04 17:15:51 <PaulFertser_> mickey|ICxxxx: Oh, too bad... I hope they'll be able to find a decent GSM modem at least for GTA04. Ok, i'll send a diff in some minutes (if you really prefer it over git-format-patch ;) )
Dec 04 17:16:31 <mickey|ICxxxx> gta03 has a decent modem
Dec 04 17:17:03 <mickey|ICxxxx> _if_ it will be the one we're currently evaluating
Dec 04 17:17:03 <mickey|ICxxxx> tbh, the calpso is not that bad, in some areas it's really good actually
Dec 04 17:17:30 <mickey|ICxxxx> in some others it sucks
Dec 04 17:17:30 <mickey|ICxxxx> PaulFertser_: git-format-patch is welcome as well
Dec 04 17:17:47 <mickey|ICxxxx> mwester: i didn't see things going wrong that way yet
Dec 04 17:18:05 <PaulFertser_> mwester: I think i so some recv error messages, but i'm not sure, i think i've deleted the logs. And moreover things go wrong at 2048 due to a logical error in the mux daemon, afaict.
Dec 04 17:18:11 <Ainulindale> a21_work?
Dec 04 17:18:27 <a21_work> here i am, Ainulindale 
Dec 04 17:18:38 <Ainulindale> a21_work: opkg list_installed | grep sysact
Dec 04 17:19:13 <a21_work> ah ok, I got your hint ;)
Dec 04 17:19:27 <Ainulindale> You get my hint?
Dec 04 17:19:42 <mwester> Ok.  I'm just a bit worried that we may yet be overrunning the UART and dropping data.
Dec 04 17:19:54 <a21_work> Ainulindale: about sysact
Dec 04 17:20:01 <Ainulindale> a21_work: that is to say?
Dec 04 17:20:08 <mickey|ICxxxx> fwiw
Dec 04 17:20:08 <Sargun> Ainulindale, Any chances we for FLUID for debian?
Dec 04 17:20:12 <Ainulindale> Do you have the package or not?
Dec 04 17:20:15 <mickey|ICxxxx> we will soon have a second option for the muxer
Dec 04 17:20:18 <Ainulindale> Sargun: What?
Dec 04 17:20:18 <PaulFertser_> mwester: shouldn't hardware flow control take care of that?
Dec 04 17:20:22 <mickey|ICxxxx> then we can do some cross tests
Dec 04 17:20:34 <a21_work> Ainulindale: now I check and if no result, I'll install it, right?
Dec 04 17:20:39 <Sargun> Ainulindale, do you know if you guys can release FLUID for debian?
Dec 04 17:20:48 <Ainulindale> package name isn't sysact a21_work 
Dec 04 17:20:55 <Ainulindale> Sargun: I don't even know what FLUID is.
Dec 04 17:21:11 <PaulFertser_> Sargun: i've used fluid without problems on debian. No magic, nothing hard. Just unpacked and used according to the manual.
Dec 04 17:21:15 <Sargun> FLUID is the GSM reflaser for bug #666, 
Dec 04 17:21:24 <a21_work> e-wm-sysactions-shr
Dec 04 17:21:32 <Sargun> PaulFertser_, No opkg under Debian....
Dec 04 17:21:41 <Ainulindale> a21_work: so it's here?
Dec 04 17:21:58 <PaulFertser_> It's still compatible enough to be unpacked by dpkg.
Dec 04 17:22:14 <PaulFertser_> Sargun: or ``ar''.
Dec 04 17:22:37 <a21_work> Ainulindale: no, I've not it installed
Dec 04 17:22:51 <Sargun> alright
Dec 04 17:22:53 <Sargun> let's try this
Dec 04 17:22:54 <a21_work> but I presume, I need it
Dec 04 17:23:15 <Ainulindale> yes
Dec 04 17:23:43 <a21_work> so... Ainulindale, I got your hint ;)
Dec 04 17:25:43 <Sargun> PaulFertser:
Dec 04 17:25:43 <Sargun> dpkg: error processing s3c24xx-gpio_1.0+svnr4130-r2.1_armv4t.ipk (--install):
Dec 04 17:25:43 <Sargun>  package architecture (armv4t) does not match system (armel)
Dec 04 17:25:55 <a21_work> Ainulindale: restarted Xserver, now it's ok
Dec 04 17:26:03 <Sargun> PaulFertser_, or is that erroneous?
Dec 04 17:26:12 <a21_work> sorry for the garbage ticket
Dec 04 17:26:29 <a21_work> #177 = garbage
Dec 04 17:26:46 <PaulFertser_> Sargun: force it.
Dec 04 17:27:34 <Ainulindale> a21_work: you should ask first =)
Dec 04 17:27:58 <a21_work> I'll do :P ^_^'
Dec 04 17:28:57 <Sargun> Ok, let's try this.
Dec 04 17:32:12 <DocScrutinizer2> Ainulindale: Hi!
Dec 04 17:32:19 <Ainulindale> Oï :-)
Dec 04 17:32:24 <Ainulindale> Good news, did you see? :-)
Dec 04 17:32:35 <DocScrutinizer2> nope
Dec 04 17:32:41 <Ainulindale> Well check your mail then
Dec 04 17:32:47 <DocScrutinizer2> just back "home"
Dec 04 17:33:29 <DocScrutinizer2> every time someone tells me "good news" are waiting, it spoiled my day :-/
Dec 04 17:33:42 <Ainulindale> Well it's good news for me
Dec 04 17:33:44 <bumbl> HAHA
Dec 04 17:34:43 <DocScrutinizer2> hmm, any clue for me?
Dec 04 17:34:54 <DocScrutinizer2> on what's the topic
Dec 04 17:35:10 <Ainulindale> Well it's the answer of Steve, from a forwarded mail from Wolfgang
Dec 04 17:35:35 <DocScrutinizer2> ahh, so ghey agreed on a policy?
Dec 04 17:35:43 <Ainulindale> Seems they did
Dec 04 17:35:52 <DocScrutinizer2> s/gh/th/
Dec 04 17:36:33 <DocScrutinizer2> regarding starving distro-maintainers :-)
Dec 04 17:36:47 <Ainulindale> heh :-)
Dec 04 17:36:48 <DocScrutinizer2> cool
Dec 04 17:36:55 <mwester> PaulFertser_:  HW flow control is broken on the calypso.
Dec 04 17:37:18 <a21_work> c ya next time, have to go now
Dec 04 17:37:57 <Sargun> Program: (34 sectors, 267*8k=2136k) ( ERROR(10): Receive timeout (no target reply)
Dec 04 17:38:36 <PaulFertser_> mwester: and they say that the calypso "is not that bad" ;)
Dec 04 17:38:43 <DocScrutinizer2> well, let's start this siefuj crap then
Dec 04 17:38:44 <Hire> DocScrutinizer2: ghey is the fusion from "they" and "gay"? :D
Dec 04 17:39:19 <PaulFertser_> Sargun: make sure gsm0710muxd is killed and that you do everything else according to the manual.
Dec 04 17:39:43 <DocScrutinizer2> it's just jetmangled typer on N810 kbd
Dec 04 17:40:11 <mwester> :)  Yeah, but in fairness, the SoC is part of the problem too.  I'm hoping that the GTA02 (with the bigger UART FIFO) is immune to the HW flow control issues, which is why I am interested in any type of GSM data loss problems.
Dec 04 17:40:21 <PaulFertser_> mwester: HW flow control is broken, UI is unavailable, #1024 is still investigated. Oh, TI's great. :-/
Dec 04 17:40:39 <Sargun> PaulFertser_, Let me try to reboot my device
Dec 04 17:41:42 <Sargun> I've dealt with TI efore, they used to suck worse, if that's believable. 
Dec 04 17:41:52 <Sargun> far worse.
Dec 04 17:42:15 <DocScrutinizer2> duh, #1024 uninvestigated? darn, what was it Deiter and some other guys did the last weeks, then?
Dec 04 17:43:40 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: I've read on the ml that he's still unable to find the root of the problem. Stefan promised to try to help him. That's all i've read. Don't you have access to more private info? ;)
Dec 04 17:44:44 <DocScrutinizer2> we are publishing 95% of our action to kill #1024
Dec 04 17:45:08 <DocScrutinizer2> there's no such thing as private info
Dec 04 17:45:10 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: btw, Is it possible to contact Deiter (or maybe Mickey can do it himself) to obtain the reasonable description of %Nxxxx command?
Dec 04 17:45:21 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: just kidding :)
Dec 04 17:45:33 <Sargun> TangoGPS only does offboard navigation
Dec 04 17:46:22 <DocScrutinizer2> afaik they did actually talk about it, Dieter will look into it
Dec 04 17:47:48 <Sargun> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.NotPresent: 
Dec 04 17:47:49 <Sargun> yay!
Dec 04 17:48:06 <bumbl> hmm Joerg so openmoko is after wsod and #1024 at the moment
Dec 04 17:48:38 <bumbl> any plan when the tracking kernel will go stable?
Dec 04 17:48:51 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: That's great news, thanks :) Is it possible to tell us now, whether field-upgrades of the GTA03 modem will be available?
Dec 04 17:49:12 <DocScrutinizer2> ugh. yeah, among  a plethora of other things
Dec 04 17:49:41 <DocScrutinizer2> yup, will be...
Dec 04 17:50:09 <DocScrutinizer2> we learnt a little ;-)
Dec 04 17:50:14 <Sargun> PaulFertser_, you're not going to believe this, when I reseated the sim, I put it in backwards
Dec 04 17:50:15 <PaulFertser_> Quad-band? And what about power consumption? Not worse than calypso?
Dec 04 17:50:53 <PaulFertser_> Sargun: what's your timezone? May be it's just sleep deprivation? ;)
Dec 04 17:50:58 <DocScrutinizer2> nope, good power. and yup, quad
Dec 04 17:51:33 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: "It's getting better all the time. / Better, better, be-e-eter" :)
Dec 04 17:51:42 <DocScrutinizer2> see cinterion page on MC75i (if it doesn't change until MP)
Dec 04 17:52:29 <Sargun> PaulFertser_, aha
Dec 04 17:52:36 <DocScrutinizer2> things change rapidly sometimes at OM
Dec 04 17:53:40 <DocScrutinizer2> sometimes you can't change an annoyance for a year...
Dec 04 17:53:42 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: doing it at the moment. "Datasheet" of 4 pages :-/ I hope at least all AT-commands are properly documented somewhere.
Dec 04 17:54:59 <DocScrutinizer2> 8'd think so. But actually we didn't ask whether we may publish the docs :-( Thanks for reminder
Dec 04 17:55:27 * DocScrutinizer2 edits ToDo list
Dec 04 17:56:45 <DocScrutinizer2> but cinterion seems a bit more openminded wrt FOSS; than e.g. the calypso guys
Dec 04 17:57:57 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: doesn't the term "FOSS" bear some negative connotations for you?
Dec 04 17:59:37 <DocScrutinizer2> nope... ?
Dec 04 18:01:58 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: btw, congratulations on (i hope finally) solving the buzz issue. Esp. with such an easy rework :)
Dec 04 18:03:03 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: the problem i see with the word FOSS is that O inside. I don't like "open source" as it implies that some guys don't care about freedom as much as they care about money :(
Dec 04 18:03:05 <DocScrutinizer2> yeah, our Taiwan-EE crew did a great job on this
Dec 04 18:04:21 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: could you probably explain, what the deal with that audio caps? They have to retrace some part of PCB anyway, why are they so reluctant to an obviously needed change?
Dec 04 18:05:24 <DocScrutinizer2> not even I could find an answer to this question
Dec 04 18:08:44 <DocScrutinizer2> well, at least I talked them into changing 1u -> 4u7. same footprint
Dec 04 18:10:38 <DocScrutinizer2> will reduce the problem to a point where you really could adjust via alsa mixer setings to get kinda flat frequency response
Dec 04 18:11:35 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer2: thanks for your work, really. Too bad most Taiwan OM people are not as open and public as the European developers :-/
Dec 04 18:35:04 <Sargun_Screen> correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a way to 'virtualize' a sim, right?
Dec 04 18:35:14 <mrmoku|w1rk> bumbl: sorry, did not boot... I still have some day job as priority to do... will examine later
Dec 04 18:37:30 <mwester> virtualize a SIM?
Dec 04 18:38:33 <TAsn> hey, what's the proper way to use a boolean variable with mdbus?
Dec 04 18:39:06 <TAsn> mdbus BUS PATH METHOD parametr1 False doesn't work well.
Dec 04 18:41:14 <TAsn> mickey__,  what's the proper way to use a boolean variable with mdbus?
Dec 04 18:41:44 <mickey__> try bool(1)
Dec 04 18:41:47 <mickey__> or 0
Dec 04 18:41:51 <TAsn> cool.
Dec 04 18:41:52 <TAsn> thanks.
Dec 04 18:42:35 <TAsn> I'm trying to use the CreateCall 00number000 GSM 0
Dec 04 18:42:45 <TAsn> the create call method like this:
Dec 04 18:42:48 <TAsn> CreateCall 00number000 GSM 0
Dec 04 18:42:56 <TAsn> though I get org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.KeyError
Dec 04 18:42:59 <TAsn> all the time.
Dec 04 18:44:13 <TAsn> and with 1 instead of the last 0, I get TypeError: Can't convert type <type 'dbus.ObjectPath'> to python object
Dec 04 18:45:50 <TAsn> mickey__, any ideas?
Dec 04 18:48:37 <Sargun_Screen> mwester: as in have a software sim, or use gsm without having to use a hardware sim module.
Dec 04 18:54:10 <pieterc> Would the FR run much better with the X11 support for glamo?
Dec 04 18:57:06 <dos1> pieterc: there already is X11 support for glamo
Dec 04 18:57:11 <bumbl> mrmoku|w1rk: don't kill your self ... your job, private live, etc is more important
Dec 04 18:57:11 <dos1> Xglamo
Dec 04 18:57:47 <pieterc> then i don't understand what the hassle is about;)
Dec 04 18:58:12 <TAsn> mickey__, got any ideas?
Dec 04 18:58:17 <dos1> hassle is about 3d acceleration
Dec 04 18:58:26 <dos1> you know, opengl es
Dec 04 18:58:30 <pieterc> right
Dec 04 18:58:41 <mickey__> TAsn: about what? I'm constantly loosing gprs ere
Dec 04 18:58:47 <mickey__> here
Dec 04 18:58:50 <pieterc> and when 3d acceleration driver works... would it run better then?
Dec 04 18:58:50 <pieterc> ;)
Dec 04 18:58:51 <TAsn> <TAsn> thanks.
Dec 04 18:58:52 <bumbl> Sargun_Screen: not possible
Dec 04 18:58:52 <TAsn> <TAsn> I'm trying to use the CreateCall 00number000 GSM 0
Dec 04 18:58:52 <TAsn> <TAsn> the create call method like this:
Dec 04 18:58:52 <TAsn> <TAsn> CreateCall 00number000 GSM 0
Dec 04 18:58:52 <TAsn> <TAsn> though I get org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.KeyError
Dec 04 18:58:57 <TAsn> <TAsn> and with 1 instead of the last 0, I get TypeError: Can't convert type <type 'dbus.ObjectPath'> to python object
Dec 04 18:59:07 <bumbl> :(
Dec 04 18:59:36 <mickey__> TAsn: do you need to use the highlevel iface?
Dec 04 18:59:41 <mickey__> if not, try w/ the lowlevel one
Dec 04 18:59:54 <TAsn> I'm just wondering why it doesn't work ;]
Dec 04 18:59:58 <mickey__> the highlevel is a bit more complicated from the command line since it uses the OO approach
Dec 04 19:00:05 <TAsn> nvm the hassle.
Dec 04 19:00:10 <TAsn> I'll use the low level
Dec 04 19:00:14 <TAsn> thanks. ;]
Dec 04 19:00:17 <mickey__> well, we can check the syntax
Dec 04 19:00:20 <Sargun_Screen> bumbl: if someone stole my phone, would it have any way to find me?
Dec 04 19:00:52 <morphis> heyho
Dec 04 19:01:05 <bumbl> Sargun_Screen: hmm
Dec 04 19:01:13 <pieterc> Sargun_Screen: If someone 'd steel my freerunner i would not be able to stop laughing ;)
Dec 04 19:01:18 <pieterc> He won't be anything with it;)
Dec 04 19:01:30 <pieterc> *he won't be nothing
Dec 04 19:02:02 <bumbl> you could write a program to check whether your sim card is inserted or not
Dec 04 19:02:18 <bumbl> and if not it should try to send a sms/email with gps coordinates
Dec 04 19:02:45 <pieterc> wow, that's a great idea
Dec 04 19:02:49 <pieterc> ssh through sms
Dec 04 19:03:10 <pieterc> command line through sms rather
Dec 04 19:03:44 <dos1> pieterc: he won't do nothing with it :D
Dec 04 19:03:58 <pieterc> right;)
Dec 04 19:04:14 <dos1> or won't be able to do
Dec 04 19:04:16 <dos1> ;)
Dec 04 19:04:41 <pieterc> unless the thief is mwester
Dec 04 19:04:53 <pieterc> ...
Dec 04 19:05:02 <pieterc> I'll go eat chinese i guess;)
Dec 04 19:05:28 <bumbl> nah
Dec 04 19:05:42 <bumbl> they would be at least be able to use it as a paper weight
Dec 04 19:05:54 <bumbl> or throw them after Dave
Dec 04 19:06:15 <bumbl> or tell the future with magic eightball
Dec 04 19:07:58 <pieterc> Hy... I would like that feature pretty much... commandline through sms
Dec 04 19:08:20 <pieterc> That means, when my FR is at home connected through ssh, to my computer
Dec 04 19:08:22 <mickey__> no problem once you have a good sms plan ;)
Dec 04 19:08:30 <mickey__> and can live with the latency :D
Dec 04 19:09:07 <pieterc> i'd be able to sms to my freerunner to give a command to my computer to give a wifi signal to the oven to start baking my Lasagna
Dec 04 19:09:45 <pieterc> That's not that bad i guess... mostly my sms's get delivered in less then 10 seconds
Dec 04 19:09:57 <pieterc> in 95% of the cases
Dec 04 19:09:58 <mickey__> right
Dec 04 19:09:59 <pieterc> which is enough ;)
Dec 04 19:10:13 <Sargun_Screen> hm, for the mtd devices, rewrites have to be block based, right?
Dec 04 19:10:22 <mickey__> you might want to add some local prechecks before sending, so that typos hurt less ;)
Dec 04 19:10:56 <mickey__> hmm, i wonder what happened to the vala-efl initiative
Dec 04 19:11:01 <mickey__> need to ping the guy
Dec 04 19:11:45 <PaulFertser_> Sargun_Screen: have you successfully flashed GSM firmware or you've given up?
Dec 04 19:12:10 <Sargun_Screen> PaulFertser_: yeah, i rebooted and it flashed fine.
Dec 04 19:12:30 <Sargun_Screen> I'll add instructions to the wiki sooon.
Dec 04 19:12:52 <Sargun_Screen> (for debian)
Dec 04 19:13:57 <Sargun_Screen> a somewhat neat program would be if a simgets removed it'll disable Qi/u-boot
Dec 04 19:14:50 <dos1> Sargun_Screen: bootloader in NOR will be still alive :(
Dec 04 19:14:56 <Sargun_Screen> when will free runners start shipping with qi, om 2008.8, and moko10? also, when is Qi going to be stablized.
Dec 04 19:15:09 <Sargun_Screen> dos1: overwrite that with Qi
Dec 04 19:15:50 <dos1> Sargun_Screen: has Qi DFU cabability?
Dec 04 19:15:53 <dos1> i think no
Dec 04 19:16:09 <Sargun_Screen> it will soon, right?
Dec 04 19:16:16 <Sargun_Screen> and OpenOCD
Dec 04 19:16:32 <Sargun_Screen> to write to the nand, at 2kbps
Dec 04 19:20:13 <Dave> Beautiful.
Dec 04 19:21:27 <bricode> Dave: What's beautiful today?
Dec 04 19:21:54 <Dave> Nothing. I was making a facetious remark directed towards Sargun.
Dec 04 19:23:30 <mato> mickey|IC: hi mickey, d'you have a minute?
Dec 04 19:24:21 * mato is having more bizarre build problems with fso-unstable-image
Dec 04 19:25:14 <Dave> Brian, I broke your code.
Dec 04 19:25:34 <Dave> Sargun - Beware the Qi.
Dec 04 19:25:55 <mickey|IC> how does it failß
Dec 04 19:25:56 <DocScrutinizer2> mickey|IC: could you re-set the # topic? lepizig sounds like the name of your flu ;-)
Dec 04 19:27:20 <mickey|IC> hehehe
Dec 04 19:27:51 <mato> mickey|IC: well, it doesn't actually fail.  it's just that the resulting image has no X server in it :(
Dec 04 19:28:35 <mato> mickey|IC: OE does actually build the xserver-nodm-init and xserver-kdrive-glamo packages
Dec 04 19:28:45 <mato> but they don't end up in the image for some reason
Dec 04 19:30:31 <bumbl> DocScrutinizer2: why
Dec 04 19:30:37 <bumbl> ah sorry joerg
Dec 04 19:30:40 <bumbl> Dave: why
Dec 04 19:31:05 <DocScrutinizer2> np
Dec 04 19:32:44 <bricode> You broke my code? 
Dec 04 19:32:59 <mato> mickey|IC: it's as if task-x11-illime is getting ignored when deciding what to put in the image
Dec 04 19:33:02 <mato> very strage
Dec 04 19:33:03 <Dave> It's what I do best :D
Dec 04 19:33:56 <mato> i also get this when building:
Dec 04 19:33:59 <mato> ERROR: Multiple .bb files are due to be built which each provide virtual/xserver (/home/mato/src/moko/fso-unstable/openembedded/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kd
Dec 04 19:34:02 <mato> rive-glamo_1.3.0.0+git.bb /home/mato/src/moko/fso-unstable/openembedded/packages
Dec 04 19:34:05 <mato> /xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive_1.3.0.0.bb). This usually means one provides something the other doesn't and should.
Dec 04 19:34:10 <mato> is this normal?
Dec 04 19:47:25 <PaulFertser_> mwester: Is this what are you looking for? It's from the 2.6.24, as andy-tracking doesn't resume according to the recent report.
Dec 04 19:47:32 <PaulFertser_> soc-audio soc-audio: scheduling resume work
Dec 04 19:47:32 <PaulFertser_> rxerr: port ch=0x7e, rxs=0x00000001
Dec 04 19:47:32 <PaulFertser_> PM: Finishing wakeup.
Dec 04 19:47:32 <PaulFertser_> Restarting tasks ... <6>soc-audio soc-audio: starting resume work
Dec 04 19:47:32 <PaulFertser_> rxerr: port ch=0x7e, rxs=0x00000001
Dec 04 19:47:34 <PaulFertser_> done.
Dec 04 19:48:28 <PaulFertser_> mwester: and without flow control patches to FSO (i'm using stock Debian ms4)
Dec 04 19:48:31 <mwester> Yep.  Except that's during suspend/resume, and would indicate that the application software stack does not take care to forcibly flow-control the GSM.
Dec 04 19:51:29 <PaulFertser_> mwester: Yes, i understand. If i ever see this during normal operation (i consciously pasted several lines to give a resume context), i'll notify you.
Dec 04 19:59:41 <mrmoku|w1rk> bumbl: hmm, does not boot... hangs after starting fso gpsd :(
Dec 04 19:59:46 <mrmoku|w1rk> looks like I borked something
Dec 04 20:19:57 <bumbl> hmm :(
Dec 04 20:20:35 <mrmoku|w1rk> bumbl: but it looks like there is happening something on the WSoD front :D
Dec 04 20:21:09 <bumbl> this is good, but does not affect me
Dec 04 20:21:24 <bumbl> bumbl == lucky
Dec 04 20:40:12 <Sargun> why the hell are we doing this? 2008.12.02 23:59:59 ogsmd.pdp DEBUG    route status. old=, last=ppp0, current=pp
Dec 04 20:40:17 <Sargun> p0
Dec 04 20:40:23 <Sargun> and where in the code is this routine?
Dec 04 20:42:17 <mrmoku|w1rk> Ainulindale: how do I turn on building of tar.gz rootfs?
Dec 04 21:00:08 <Sargun> I found another bug! :-)
Dec 04 21:09:24 <mw|> of all packages that could fail during my tour of "make image" openmoko-calculator2   *update openembedded* 
Dec 04 21:20:51 <Sargun> Someone needs to give mickey some anti-sleep medication.
Dec 04 21:31:45 <omorante> hi
Dec 04 21:32:39 <omorante> can I use MokoMakeFile to build a testing (non-stable) image?
Dec 04 21:36:50 <mw|> omorante: yes, and shr currently only have unstable/testing
Dec 04 21:37:03 <mw|> omorante: http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/wiki/Building%20SHR
Dec 04 21:37:14 <mato> is anyone here doing OE image builds over NFS with PARALLEL_MAKE and BB_NUMBER_THREADS > 1?
Dec 04 21:37:19 <mw|> but I probably would recommend using a prebuild image
Dec 04 21:37:45 <mw|> mato: NFS shouldn't change things
Dec 04 21:37:47 * mato is wondering if the mysterious fso-image missing X is due to some NFS/parallel build breakage
Dec 04 21:38:11 <mw|> and even if make used flock(), you probably have nfs-lock helper daemon running anyway
Dec 04 21:38:43 <mw|> mato: try to rerun make fso-image  without number of threads above 1 then ?
Dec 04 21:38:55 <dcordes> mickey|flu|zzZZz, still flu'D ? :(
Dec 04 21:39:05 <mato> mw|: tried it w/o doing a clean, didn't help
Dec 04 21:39:20 <mato> am going to do it again from scratch, one more time ...
Dec 04 21:39:35 <mato> will keep using make -j 8 though otherwise it'll take forever
Dec 04 21:39:41 <Kensan> mwester: ping
Dec 04 21:39:58 <Kensan> dcordes: hi
Dec 04 21:40:14 <dcordes> Kensan, hey there
Dec 04 21:40:26 <Sargun> dcordes, he's asleep
Dec 04 21:45:27 <Kensan> dcordes: how are things progress wrt Kaiser?
Dec 04 21:45:34 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: good evening
Dec 04 21:46:31 <dcordes> Kensan, nothing new. mickey|flu|zzZZz told me he needs some details before he can fix the problems with making calls etc not working from cli-framework
Dec 04 21:46:37 <dcordes> but I'm not sure what he needs
Dec 04 21:47:02 <Kensan> dcordes: ah ic, did you read his blog post about adding new modems to ogsmd?
Dec 04 21:47:20 <dcordes> no is it in the planet?
Dec 04 21:47:29 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: hi
Dec 04 21:47:49 <Kensan> dcordes: yes
Dec 04 21:47:56 <dcordes> this? http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/12/03/ogsmd-and-its-modems/ ?
Dec 04 21:48:04 <Kensan> dcordes: yes
Dec 04 21:48:42 <mato> stefan_schmidt: hi
Dec 04 21:48:59 <stefan_schmidt> hi mato 
Dec 04 21:49:15 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, hey
Dec 04 21:49:21 <stefan_schmidt> hi dcordes 
Dec 04 21:49:47 <dcordes> label me stoopid but I still don't see how the non mutiplexed singleline AT interface in the msm7* devices is limiting
Dec 04 21:50:31 <omorante> mw|: thanks :)
Dec 04 21:50:45 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: No signal quality updates, while calling, no gprs and call at the same time, no sms updates in this time..
Dec 04 21:50:53 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: looks limited to me. :)
Dec 04 21:50:58 <Kensan> dcordes: the modem/gsm is blocked on operations that take long (reading sim)
Dec 04 21:51:02 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: well,  you have another line for gprs
Dec 04 21:51:02 <Kensan> for example
Dec 04 21:51:14 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: So it is not _that_ limited
Dec 04 21:51:19 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, man I'm always using hsdpa with the kaiser and make calles at the same time
Dec 04 21:52:02 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: The a) theyuse another device for hspa or b) they nultiplexing in userspace
Dec 04 21:52:09 <dcordes> when using linux, the modem runs the same modem firmware.
Dec 04 21:52:19 <dcordes> b
Dec 04 21:52:46 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: That does not mean that the linux part is similar to the windows part :)
Dec 04 21:53:33 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: Anyway, we should not discuss if it is limited or not, but get it working this way for now
Dec 04 21:53:38 <dcordes> I'm just saying. that fact excludes the a) option
Dec 04 21:54:43 <mrmoku|w1rk> quickdev: hi
Dec 04 21:54:49 <quickdev> hey mrmoku|w1rk 
Dec 04 21:54:52 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: Not really. The windows driver can also do muxing before giving it to the telephony server. You are using the android code base which handles this deffierent
Dec 04 21:55:17 <mrmoku|w1rk> my wife is pissed off and it's your fault ;)
Dec 04 21:56:36 <mrmoku|w1rk> quickdev: just kidding... but today ophonekitd crashed and I did not notice... she wanted to call me :p
Dec 04 21:56:59 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, that's wrong. the windows driver uses the same fifos as the linux driver. 
Dec 04 21:57:08 <quickdev> mrmoku|w1rk, with the version I posted yesterday? ;)
Dec 04 21:57:21 <mrmoku|w1rk> quickdev: yep
Dec 04 21:57:50 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, because they are provided by the modem 
Dec 04 21:58:22 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, if we want at command multiplexing we must do it in the userspace
Dec 04 21:58:52 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: hmm, ok then let's just use that
Dec 04 21:59:02 <quickdev> mrmoku, you shouldn't use that for day usage, it's very buggy :)
Dec 04 21:59:30 <mrmoku> quickdev: heh, noticed yeah. But who cares :D
Dec 04 21:59:46 <mw|> hmmm, git update of openembedded causes all openembedded packages to be rebuilt?
Dec 04 21:59:49 <mrmoku> it's just wife or clients that are calling - don't want to talk to neither of the two ;)
Dec 04 22:00:01 <quickdev> hehe ;)
Dec 04 22:00:26 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, can you help me debugging making calls in cli-framework?
Dec 04 22:05:07 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: well, I'm not the ogsmd master, but I can try
Dec 04 22:08:08 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, can I have your email so I can send you the log?
Dec 04 22:09:03 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: stefan@openmoko.org
Dec 04 22:09:40 <dcordes> ok won't end up in a ml then?
Dec 04 22:12:42 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: no
Dec 04 22:12:54 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: That's my working address
Dec 04 22:13:19 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: ml would also be fine for me. Depends if you have private infos inside
Dec 04 22:14:01 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, ok I'll have the info in 5 minutes
Dec 04 22:14:58 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: Take your time. Some other stuff here anyway
Dec 04 22:26:54 <dcordes> stefan_schmidt, ok. I will have a pizza then ;)
Dec 04 22:27:08 <stefan_schmidt> dcordes: Always a good plan :)
Dec 04 22:46:46 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: is that turbo memory part of the x200s?
Dec 04 22:47:09 * Kensan is refering to the lkml post
Dec 04 22:49:09 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: yup, it's build in
Dec 04 22:49:29 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: Was a bit surprising as I did not care about it :)
Dec 04 22:49:31 <bricode> Kensan: Long time no see.
Dec 04 22:49:45 <Kensan> bricode: yeah, hi there!
Dec 04 22:49:50 <bricode> Anyone using wpa_supplicant? If so, what -D (driver) are you using.
Dec 04 22:50:04 <bricode> Kensan: I've been a busy boy. http://git.koolu.org
Dec 04 22:50:07 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: hehe, it's always nice to find new hardware :)
Dec 04 22:50:17 <Kensan> bricode: nice! let me take a gander
Dec 04 22:50:23 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: We found it while alphaone and me rippd our X200s apart. He need to test my wwan card in his. :)
Dec 04 22:50:42 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: yeah, sadly it seems there is really now driver for it
Dec 04 22:50:59 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: 2GB of nand inside my new system and no driver. What a pity
Dec 04 22:51:11 <mickey|tired> evening
Dec 04 22:51:17 <stefan_schmidt> moin mickey|tired 
Dec 04 22:51:22 * pieterc is learning some basic IRC stuff
Dec 04 22:51:27 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: Second X200s arrived :)
Dec 04 22:51:36 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: You have to hurry ;)
Dec 04 22:51:39 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: geez, you always take shiny new fully working equipment apart as a first order of business? ;)
Dec 04 22:52:02 <mickey|tired> stefan_schmidt: you guys are too fast for me :)
Dec 04 22:52:12 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: Well, alphaone does it always. I was just a victim as I have the card...
Dec 04 22:52:13 <Kensan> bricode: cool stuff, haven't been following openmoko all too closely
Dec 04 22:52:24 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: well I like to do that to ;)
Dec 04 22:52:36 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: Need to catch up with your thinkpad and mbp buys...
Dec 04 22:52:43 <mickey|tired> true!
Dec 04 22:52:48 <dcordes> bricode, any effort with ril yet?
Dec 04 22:52:57 <mickey|tired> stefan_schmidt: you'll get a 02 soon
Dec 04 22:53:04 <dcordes> bricode, I can see http://git.koolu.org/?p=platform/hardware/ril.git;a=commitdiff;h=205dd86ea1c3fa9ea10ae2f519e535df759a631f
Dec 04 22:53:13 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: ?, more infos then me?
Dec 04 22:53:16 <mickey|tired> stefan_schmidt: perhaps we can send your semi-working a4 to someone else than
Dec 04 22:53:18 <Kensan> bricode: any chance the forums could be read-only for guests?
Dec 04 22:53:23 <mickey|tired> stefan_schmidt: (more infos) sure
Dec 04 22:53:38 <mickey|tired> stefan_schmidt: i'm your teamleader, i had to judge whether your request was reasonable *sigh*
Dec 04 22:53:39 <dcordes> bricode, guess you're using the only ril available in google git, the one for the old omap hardware right?
Dec 04 22:53:43 * mickey|tired hides in shame
Dec 04 22:53:45 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: Sure, would be fine for me sending it out. It even has a wifi module with the right fw
Dec 04 22:54:05 <mickey|tired> good
Dec 04 22:54:09 <mickey|tired> lets consider Ainulindale then
Dec 04 22:54:11 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: heh, ok, I don't want more infos :)
Dec 04 22:54:24 * mickey|tired fought for stefan_schmidt's new MP device
Dec 04 22:54:31 <mickey|tired> guess why I'm so tired ;)
Dec 04 22:54:33 <bricode> Kensan: Perhaps. I'll consider that.
Dec 04 22:54:33 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: ok, I take care of it
Dec 04 22:54:42 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: Sure, I trust you on this
Dec 04 22:55:01 <bricode> dcordes: Yeah, the RIL will probably need some work to bring it inline with the rest of the OM images.
Dec 04 22:55:08 <mickey|tired> so you both have the same x200s model?
Dec 04 22:55:21 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: No, alphaone has the WXGA+
Dec 04 22:55:23 <bricode> dcordes: That commit line isn't enabled yet.
Dec 04 22:55:28 <Kensan> mickey|tired: they are already swapping internal components
Dec 04 22:55:29 <alphaone> I do
Dec 04 22:55:30 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: That's why he tried my wwan card
Dec 04 22:55:44 <Kensan> alphaone: oh hi there, listening in the background tonight? ;)
Dec 04 22:55:45 <alphaone> mickey|tired: And it finally worked
Dec 04 22:55:51 <dcordes> bricode, what commit line? a pity the source to the ril code from g1 is not published.
Dec 04 22:55:52 <alphaone> Kensan: A little
Dec 04 22:55:55 <mickey|tired> alphaone: yay!
Dec 04 22:56:07 <mickey|tired> alphaone: huh ? how?
Dec 04 22:56:07 <alphaone> mickey|tired: :-)
Dec 04 22:56:12 <mickey|tired> wxga+ + umts???
Dec 04 22:56:22 <alphaone> I just rebooted and went into the bios
Dec 04 22:56:23 <Kensan> my 5 year old notebook is starting to show it's age...
Dec 04 22:56:27 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: He just has to place the antennas himself. :)
Dec 04 22:56:29 <Kensan> *hinthint*
Dec 04 22:56:31 <mickey|tired> wah
Dec 04 22:56:33 <mickey|tired> that's amazihng
Dec 04 22:56:33 <alphaone> and then the wwan stuff was there
Dec 04 22:56:34 <mickey|tired> good job
Dec 04 22:56:40 <alphaone> no antennas though
Dec 04 22:56:50 <mickey|tired> Kensan: :)
Dec 04 22:56:51 <alphaone> But the sim card works
Dec 04 22:57:13 <alphaone> I was able to read out the SMS from the card
Dec 04 22:57:13 <bricode> dcordes: The TI_CALYPSO stuff. I don't have a SIM card I can test with.
Dec 04 22:57:22 <Kensan> alphaone: so you didn't pay for the wwan stuff but it's still built in?
Dec 04 22:57:27 <alphaone> mickey|tired: So I ordered a WWAN card today
Dec 04 22:57:33 <alphaone> Kensan: No
Dec 04 22:57:44 <alphaone> Kensan: I borrowed stefans card to test
Dec 04 22:57:55 <Kensan> alphaone: ahhh yeah 
Dec 04 22:57:58 <Kensan> alphaone: my bad
Dec 04 22:58:03 <alphaone> I still have the problem that there's no wwan antenna installed
Dec 04 22:58:10 <alphaone> since the display is too big
Dec 04 22:58:21 * Kensan goes to stand in the corner and listen attentively
Dec 04 22:58:56 <dcordes> bricode, he ok. funny enough I'm pursuing the exact thing as you do there, just the other way around. I want the htc hardware to work with the moko software :)
Dec 04 22:59:20 <mickey|tired> alphaone stefan_schmidt: well the good thing is I can really judge now when i see both of your models side-by-side
Dec 04 22:59:26 <Ainulindale> mickey|tired: consider me?
Dec 04 22:59:28 <Ainulindale> COnsider me for what?
Dec 04 22:59:36 <alphaone> mickey|tired: the resolution is amazing
Dec 04 22:59:39 <mickey|tired> Ainulindale: 2nd FreeRunner?
Dec 04 22:59:43 <Ainulindale> Oooooh
Dec 04 22:59:45 <alphaone> plus much brighter and much darker
Dec 04 22:59:45 <Ainulindale> Shiny :-)
Dec 04 23:00:06 <alphaone> powertop says 11h with low brightness
Dec 04 23:00:14 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: If you like you get my GTA02a4
Dec 04 23:00:35 <alphaone> mickey|tired: apart from resolution the models look exactly the same
Dec 04 23:00:38 <alphaone> and camera
Dec 04 23:00:44 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: and the bezel
Dec 04 23:00:55 <stefan_schmidt> The details, guy, the details
Dec 04 23:02:09 <mickey|tired> how'bout weight?
Dec 04 23:02:10 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: The details aren't visible with your resolution :-)
Dec 04 23:02:16 * mickey|tired chuckles
Dec 04 23:02:18 <alphaone> mickey|tired: pretty much the same
Dec 04 23:02:24 <mickey|tired> awesome
Dec 04 23:02:27 <mickey|tired> can't wait to see
Dec 04 23:02:32 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: talking about that with mickey|tired :-)
Dec 04 23:02:32 <alphaone> if both habe the same battery
Dec 04 23:02:54 <dcordes> mickey|tired, I hope you recovered well :)
Dec 04 23:02:56 * pieterc wants to play pokémon on the freerunner
Dec 04 23:03:01 <mickey|tired> dcordes: not at all, actually
Dec 04 23:03:03 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: pff, I swicth to hspa now. Perhaps check my location, too :)
Dec 04 23:03:03 <Ainulindale> Well guys I'm dead and deaf
Dec 04 23:03:09 <Ainulindale> Played punk for two hours with my boss
Dec 04 23:03:12 <mickey|tired> it got worse since i was freezing in a conference room
Dec 04 23:03:13 <mickey|tired> *sigh*
Dec 04 23:03:16 <Ainulindale> My fingers hurt
Dec 04 23:03:32 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: Just wait until I have my card :-)
Dec 04 23:03:41 <mickey|tired> on to something unrelated
Dec 04 23:03:41 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: And your antennas :D
Dec 04 23:03:44 <mickey|tired> Python 3 is out!
Dec 04 23:03:49 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: yeah, seen it
Dec 04 23:03:57 <Ainulindale> mickey|tired: well, the good point is
Dec 04 23:04:01 <Ainulindale> It can't be slower than pythno 2
Dec 04 23:04:06 * Ainulindale whistles and runs away
Dec 04 23:04:13 <quickdev> Ainulindale, will make things stable at weekend. Have a good day :)
Dec 04 23:04:13 * mickey|tired drops a grenade
Dec 04 23:04:17 <quickdev> *night :)
Dec 04 23:04:20 <dcordes> mickey|tired, man, seems like nasty stuff you ran into there. hope you defeat it soon.
Dec 04 23:04:20 <mickey|tired> actually...
Dec 04 23:04:20 <Ainulindale> quickdev: Nah
Dec 04 23:04:24 <Ainulindale> Make things stable now
Dec 04 23:04:25 <stefan_schmidt> night quickdev 
Dec 04 23:04:31 <mickey|tired> dcordes: thanks. will relax over the weekend... _really_
Dec 04 23:04:33 <alphaone> night quickdev
Dec 04 23:04:34 <Ainulindale> quickdev: (and good :-) )
Dec 04 23:04:38 <Ainulindale> quickdev: I'll be available for that
Dec 04 23:04:38 <mickey|tired> n8 quickdev 
Dec 04 23:04:49 <quickdev> had to write many unit-tests today
Dec 04 23:05:06 <quickdev> n8 to all those tired buddies ;)
Dec 04 23:07:24 <Ainulindale> Weel
Dec 04 23:07:26 <Ainulindale> Well
Dec 04 23:07:27 <Ainulindale> FOOD
Dec 04 23:08:09 <Kensan> mickey|tired: so no playing around with another modem or even waiting outside for the ups guys to arrive with your x200s!
Dec 04 23:08:13 <Kensan> *heh*
Dec 04 23:08:29 <dcordes> Ainulindale, bon appetit
Dec 04 23:08:35 <mickey|tired> hehe
Dec 04 23:08:36 <mickey|tired> well
Dec 04 23:08:39 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: Well, the X200s modem needs support, too :D
Dec 04 23:08:44 <mickey|tired> first i will evaluate the guys' models
Dec 04 23:08:56 <mickey|tired> then i'm going to do more work on EZX
Dec 04 23:08:59 <mickey|tired> i want a release before christmas
Dec 04 23:09:21 <mickey|tired> then perhaps order one after new year
Dec 04 23:09:29 <mickey|tired> depending on finances
Dec 04 23:09:38 <dcordes> looting binux
Dec 04 23:09:42 <stefan_schmidt> mickey|tired: Need a good excuse for your wife :)
Dec 04 23:09:47 <mickey|tired> indeed...
Dec 04 23:10:26 <dcordes> frameworkd -s ogsmd -d; cli-framework
Dec 04 23:10:58 <Kensan> mickey|tired: well get her one too so she won't be jealous of yours.
Dec 04 23:12:07 <dcordes> Kensan, can I ring you?
Dec 04 23:12:08 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: That does not help. He likes to restrict mickey|tired gadget budget. :)
Dec 04 23:12:11 <stefan_schmidt> Just kidding
Dec 04 23:12:39 <stefan_schmidt> ok, have to drive home and catch some sleep. bye guys
Dec 04 23:12:46 <mickey|tired> cu
Dec 04 23:12:52 <alphaone> bye stefan_schmidt 
Dec 04 23:12:57 <mickey|tired> same here (minus driving home)
Dec 04 23:12:57 <alphaone> :-)
Dec 04 23:12:59 <mickey|tired> g'night
Dec 04 23:13:05 <dcordes> Kensan, nvm forgot it won't do anything
Dec 04 23:13:05 <alphaone> night mickey|zzZZzz 
Dec 04 23:14:50 <Ainulindale> alphaone: go and work on your paper instead of procrastinating
Dec 04 23:15:10 <alphaone> Ainulindale: you're right
Dec 04 23:15:41 <dcordes> is there a way to shutdown frameworkd which is prefered over 'killall python' ?
Dec 04 23:15:53 <Ainulindale> err /etc/init.d/frameworkd stop?
Dec 04 23:16:51 <dcordes> ok thanks
Dec 04 23:19:04 <Kensan> dcordes: sorry, was away
Dec 04 23:19:35 <Kensan> tell me about restricting the gadget budget... *sigh*
Dec 04 23:20:05 <dcordes> Kensan, hm? you got a new device?
Dec 04 23:20:17 <Kensan> dcordes: tell me if you want to place a call I need to turn on the phone
Dec 04 23:20:39 <dcordes> no thanks a lot. I forgot that the call command will quit with an error
Dec 04 23:20:41 <Kensan> dcordes: yes, I got a A780 (ezx)
Dec 04 23:20:51 <dcordes> you got one with gps?
Dec 04 23:20:57 <Kensan> dcordes: that one has gps
Dec 04 23:21:12 <dcordes> I thought there were some board revisions that don't have it
Dec 04 23:21:20 <Kensan> dcordes: i put the prepaid sim in there that I usualy put in the Freerunner.
Dec 04 23:21:41 <Kensan> dcordes: hm are you sure? I thought all A780 have gps. Either way, mine does ;)
Dec 04 23:22:31 <Dave> Kensan ¬_¬
Dec 04 23:22:50 <Kensan> hi dave
Dec 04 23:22:59 <Kensan> hi raster
Dec 04 23:23:54 <dcordes> Kensan, http://wiki.openezx.org/A780
Dec 04 23:24:33 <Kensan> dcordes: oh ic.
Dec 04 23:24:38 <Kensan> dcordes: didn't know.
Dec 04 23:24:55 <raster> Kensan:  bing!
Dec 04 23:25:35 <Kensan> raster: a new member for your gang? http://www.kogan.com.au/blog/2008/dec/4/here-it-kogan-agora/
Dec 04 23:25:59 <Dave> THE GANG!
Dec 04 23:28:17 <Kensan> well zzz time for me
Dec 04 23:28:29 <Kensan> good night all
Dec 04 23:28:41 <raster> oooh
Dec 04 23:28:42 <raster> 3g
Dec 04 23:29:05 <raster> but not until feb
Dec 04 23:29:46 <raster> no moention on ram or cpu-type
Dec 04 23:29:50 <raster> (xscale?)
Dec 04 23:30:05 <raster> only qvga - but thats prbably ok
Dec 04 23:30:23 <raster> i'll wait
Dec 04 23:31:06 <Dave> Has anyone here tapped that storm, yet? :p
Dec 04 23:31:57 <dcordes> who wants qvga these days
Dec 04 23:32:21 <raster> in fact.... kogan
Dec 04 23:32:23 <raster> seems odd
Dec 04 23:32:26 <raster> never heard/seen
Dec 04 23:32:32 <dcordes> but it's not too expensive
Dec 04 23:33:51 <raster> qvga is probably ok
Dec 04 23:33:54 <raster> in 2.5"
Dec 04 23:34:11 <raster> they skimped a bit on getting a 320x320 for that
Dec 04 23:34:49 <raster> as that looks eerily similar to the samsung i780
Dec 04 23:34:57 <raster> and other similar phones
Dec 04 23:35:14 <raster> of the blackberry-formfactor-genre
Dec 04 23:35:29 <raster> they wasted space around the scren with the kogan logo
Dec 04 23:35:31 <raster> and above
Dec 04 23:35:40 <raster> so it looks like it was intended for a full 320x320
Dec 04 23:35:46 <raster> but it does have 3g
Dec 04 23:35:56 <raster> the cpu i am guessing is probably xscale at that clockrate
Dec 04 23:36:33 <raster> one of the later xscales - and i've seen them running efl on a similar formfactor phone with 320x320.. and they are SMOOOOOOOOOOOOTH
Dec 04 23:36:40 <raster> silky
Dec 04 23:38:42 <`pwgen`> hi, i have problems building openmoko2/openmoko-icon-theme-standard2 for shr image ..
Dec 04 23:39:09 <raster> bah - i'll wait and see
Dec 04 23:39:21 <raster> dont have time to go hack a phone and see how/if it works
Dec 04 23:40:26 <Sargun> raster, their power management sucks
Dec 04 23:40:41 <raster> Sargun:  who's?
Dec 04 23:40:43 <raster> android?
Dec 04 23:40:54 <raster> or xscale?
Dec 04 23:40:55 <Sargun> some higher end phones with Xscales
Dec 04 23:40:59 <Sargun> like the PPC-6700
Dec 04 23:43:09 <`pwgen`> my shr buildproblem may be the same as in http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m76dbae4c .. anyone an idea ?
Dec 04 23:43:53 <Ainulindale> `pwgen`: edit openmoko2.bbclass
Dec 04 23:43:58 <Ainulindale> set LICENSE="GPL" at the end
Dec 04 23:44:02 <Ainulindale> (If I'm not mistaken)
Dec 04 23:46:14 <raster> dunno - that is not what i have seen
Dec 04 23:46:24 <raster> it's doing pretty well
Dec 04 23:46:28 <dcordes> raster, hm can't find any details about the kogan agora chipset
Dec 04 23:47:37 <`pwgen`> Ainulindale: THX
Dec 04 23:51:35 <raster> dcordes:  neither can i...
Dec 04 23:51:39 <raster> so.. i'm going to ask
Dec 04 23:53:32 <Ainulindale> `pwgen`: Dolby
Dec 04 23:57:19 <raster> they don';t know
Dec 04 23:57:25 <raster> they have it manufactured in china
Dec 04 23:57:28 <raster> and re-branded
Dec 04 23:57:43 <raster> the chinese guys just deal with the software so they have no clue how it works
Dec 04 23:58:01 <`pwgen`> Ainulindale: after 3 approaches to build shr  i allway stuck alt openmoko2 packages, now you solve my problemes . this was a very loud thanks ...
Dec 04 23:58:35 <Ainulindale> `pwgen`: Well you should have asked me in the first place :-)
Dec 04 23:58:36 <`pwgen`> Ainulindale: in 5:1 sourround ... sound
Dec 04 23:58:44 <Ainulindale> Yeah :-)
Dec 05 00:01:02 <sicu> well, time to watch house
Dec 05 00:01:31 <Ainulindale> sicu: in the end he heals a patient
Dec 05 00:01:41 <dcordes> raster, ok. guess we'll see as soon as the kernel sources are released
Dec 05 00:02:15 <lindi-> 43C. my fr seems to have serious fewer
Dec 05 00:02:19 <dcordes> raster, you know who are the chinese guys who produce the hardware?
Dec 05 00:03:02 <lindi-> fever even
Dec 05 00:03:10 <sicu> Ainulindale: argh, spoiler alert
Dec 05 00:03:21 <sicu> and i was so excited about this
Dec 05 00:03:50 <Ainulindale> :-)
Dec 05 00:04:17 <sicu> lindi-: serious fewer works in this case
Dec 05 00:04:42 <sicu> serious fewer functionalities than one would expect from a phone?
Dec 05 00:06:33 <Dave> Who said anything about a phone? :p
Dec 05 00:07:17 <raster> dcordes:  dont know. of course they wont tell me - i called them - not even goign to ask. do u think they let you know their direct supplier so you can go behind their back?
Dec 05 00:08:18 <Dave> hah
Dec 05 00:09:21 <dcordes> raster, ok. but they should know and be able to tell you about the kernel source no?
Dec 05 00:11:05 <raster> no
Dec 05 00:11:07 <raster> they have no idea
Dec 05 00:11:14 <raster> they buy it from their manufacturer
Dec 05 00:11:15 <raster> BUT
Dec 05 00:11:22 <raster> if i were to buy one
Dec 05 00:11:31 <raster> and it were to not come with any gpl license info
Dec 05 00:11:34 <raster> or offer for source
Dec 05 00:11:37 <raster> or cd with sources
Dec 05 00:11:45 <raster> then i can legitimately ask them for it
Dec 05 00:11:57 <raster> and during this process of discovery their manufacturer will likely be exposes
Dec 05 00:11:59 <raster> exposed
Dec 05 00:16:21 <Dave> who what?
Dec 05 00:16:41 <Dave> What sort of nefarious things are you planning, raster!?
Dec 05 00:17:27 <raster> nothing atm
Dec 05 00:17:32 <Dave> Aw
Dec 05 00:23:08 * pieterc doesn't get why the illume keyboard doesn't work as an input method for SDL apps
Dec 05 00:24:56 <pieterc> the matchbox keyboard does..
Dec 05 00:25:06 <pieterc> any id?
Dec 05 00:30:31 <pieterc> no one?
Dec 05 00:31:17 * pieterc requests someones attention
Dec 05 00:31:36 <Dave> :D
Dec 05 00:33:00 * pieterc sighs roughly
Dec 05 00:33:12 * pieterc sighs again ...
Dec 05 00:33:23 <pieterc> god damn it ;)
Dec 05 00:35:27 <raster> pieterc: no reason it shouldnt work
Dec 05 00:35:35 <raster> just u need to manually pop it up
Dec 05 00:35:52 <pieterc> i did... but the SDL program deosn't react...
Dec 05 00:36:03 <raster> that's sdl's problem
Dec 05 00:36:05 <pieterc> (gnuboy)
Dec 05 00:36:09 <raster> illume sends fake keypresses
Dec 05 00:36:20 <raster> via xtest
Dec 05 00:36:21 <pieterc> it did work with matchbox keyboard
Dec 05 00:36:27 <raster> so they are indistinguishable from real ones
Dec 05 00:36:33 <raster> well fake press and release
Dec 05 00:36:44 <pieterc> i don't believe that...
Dec 05 00:36:45 <raster> maybe its the problem that when u enter a whored they get sent all at once
Dec 05 00:36:51 <raster> using the terminal?
Dec 05 00:36:53 <pieterc> yes
Dec 05 00:36:54 <raster> believe it
Dec 05 00:36:57 <raster> they are indistingusable
Dec 05 00:37:02 <raster> read up on xtest
Dec 05 00:37:49 <pieterc> hm
Dec 05 00:38:04 <raster> trust me on that
Dec 05 00:38:06 <pieterc> when i use my laptop's keyboard it works...
Dec 05 00:38:16 <pieterc> when i use the illume it doesn't...
Dec 05 00:38:22 <pieterc> when i use matchbox keyboard it works
Dec 05 00:38:29 <raster> if sdl has code that goes "ooh look keystrokes... press and release.. all with the same timestamp - they happeend al at once! thaqt must be a hardware bug - so i'll ignore them"
Dec 05 00:38:32 <raster> thats sdl's rpoblem
Dec 05 00:38:42 <pieterc> right
Dec 05 00:38:43 <pieterc> okay
Dec 05 00:38:48 <raster> are u using the terminal layout?
Dec 05 00:38:52 <pieterc> yes i am
Dec 05 00:38:54 <raster> or the default one?
Dec 05 00:39:20 <pieterc> but with the terminal keyboard, when u touc a button, it doesn't hold i guess
Dec 05 00:39:25 <pieterc> it releases directly
Dec 05 00:39:26 <pieterc> no?
Dec 05 00:39:34 <raster> yes
Dec 05 00:39:35 <pieterc> i'm using terminal keyboard yes
Dec 05 00:40:18 <pieterc> so that sucks...
Dec 05 00:40:35 <pieterc> a keyboard should have press and release...
Dec 05 00:41:39 <raster> not very sane to do when u are trynig to also do a corrective keyboard and send arbitrary keys that may not even have mappings
Dec 05 00:42:00 <raster> but it's likelyt sdl seeing a key press and release with the same timestamp
Dec 05 00:42:02 <raster> and ignorign them
Dec 05 00:42:13 <raster> qt had similar code to try and work around "hardware bugs"
Dec 05 00:42:18 <raster> that meant keys got repeated
Dec 05 00:42:24 <raster> that was fixed
Dec 05 00:42:40 <raster> it is perfectly valud to have a press and release at the same time
Dec 05 00:43:07 <raster> some hardware doesnt have a press ANd release action\
Dec 05 00:43:11 <raster> it only has a press
Dec 05 00:43:18 <raster> so u have to have both at the same time
Dec 05 00:43:40 <pieterc> hm
Dec 05 00:43:41 <pieterc> okay
Dec 05 00:44:00 <raster> (as a press really is followed by a release semantically)
Dec 05 00:44:08 * pieterc cries 'cuz he will have to code an sdl input method before he'll be able to play pokémon ...
Dec 05 00:44:10 <raster> and i bet sdl is filtering assuming buggy hw
Dec 05 00:44:16 <raster> and at that point.. it's "not my problem" :)
Dec 05 00:44:28 <raster> or u can just patch sdl
Dec 05 00:44:30 <pieterc> right ;)
Dec 05 00:44:35 <raster> and solve it once and for all
Dec 05 00:44:41 <raster> so it doesnt do silly things
Dec 05 00:44:57 <pieterc> the easiest thing will be patching gnuboy since kobodeluxe and duke3d did that yet
Dec 05 00:45:17 <raster> maybe its specific to gnuboy
Dec 05 00:45:19 <raster> don't know
Dec 05 00:45:26 <pieterc> could be
Dec 05 00:45:44 <raster> but key events are indistingushable from real ones
Dec 05 00:45:48 <raster> when using the test extension
Dec 05 00:46:00 <raster> just the time when they come in will be of a specific pattern
Dec 05 00:46:09 <raster> is presses and releases together
Dec 05 00:46:36 <pieterc> alright
Dec 05 00:46:45 <pieterc> thanks for the explanation
Dec 05 00:46:45 <Dave> POKEMON!?
Dec 05 00:46:48 <Dave> WHERE
Dec 05 00:47:03 <pieterc> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/gnuboy
Dec 05 00:49:25 <pieterc> I'll try to create an sdl keyboard if i got some time Dave
Dec 05 00:49:27 <Dave> o.O
Dec 05 00:49:33 <Dave> I hope so.
Dec 05 00:49:37 <pieterc> ha
Dec 05 00:49:41 <pieterc> You could start though? ;)
Dec 05 00:49:43 <Dave> It would seriously improve things.
Dec 05 00:49:44 <Dave> hah!
Dec 05 00:49:47 * Dave ducks
Dec 05 00:50:04 <pieterc> there's some code at duke3d source that's easy copy pastable ;)
Dec 05 00:50:17 <mwester> Dave is writing an android keyboard for us, perhaps you can copy some of his code?
Dec 05 00:50:52 <pieterc> I guess not at all ;)
Dec 05 00:51:31 <pieterc> I'll go to bed now...
Dec 05 00:51:53 <pieterc> got tomorrow 5 hours of class...
Dec 05 00:51:58 <pieterc> systems and signals
Dec 05 00:52:11 <raster> all sdl apps need to do is put a property on their window and the kbd will pop up
Dec 05 00:52:42 <pieterc> i don't think playing kobodelux with an onscreenkeyboard is fun
Dec 05 00:52:46 <pieterc> neither is duke3d
Dec 05 00:52:49 <raster> whatever kbd it is
Dec 05 00:52:51 <raster> yeah
Dec 05 00:53:01 <raster> for a generic kbd u want to just use the system one
Dec 05 00:53:02 <raster> for text entry
Dec 05 00:53:06 <raster> but for game controls
Dec 05 00:53:14 <raster> u want a custom onscreen set per game
Dec 05 00:53:21 <raster> problem is each game is vastly different
Dec 05 00:53:24 <raster> u dont have multitouch
Dec 05 00:53:27 <pieterc> right :)
Dec 05 00:53:29 <raster> u cant press 2 keys at once
Dec 05 00:53:40 <Dave> haha codestealing seems to be PieterC's specialty :p
Dec 05 00:53:44 <raster> so u need to specifically come up with some single-touch controls for the style of game - per game
Dec 05 00:53:54 <pieterc> Dave: that's my style ;)
Dec 05 00:54:02 <Dave> :D
Dec 05 00:54:24 <pieterc> Dave: if people complain about how messy my code is I can say it's not my mistake ;)
Dec 05 00:54:49 <pieterc> raster: we got accelerometers you know ;)
Dec 05 00:54:59 <raster> that is an option
Dec 05 00:55:05 <raster> tho specific to devices with them
Dec 05 00:55:12 <raster> if u dont have them.. just a touchsrceen
Dec 05 00:55:14 <raster> what do u do?
Dec 05 00:55:20 <pieterc> buy a freerunner?
Dec 05 00:55:21 <raster> as such i like to think of the general case 
Dec 05 00:55:28 <raster> not the "lets use all the possible hw we have"
Dec 05 00:55:31 <raster> to start
Dec 05 00:55:41 <pieterc> right... but since we got the accelerometers
Dec 05 00:55:41 <raster> other phones exist
Dec 05 00:55:50 <pieterc> right
Dec 05 00:55:51 <pieterc> :)
Dec 05 00:55:54 <pieterc> hm
Dec 05 00:55:55 <pieterc> hard one
Dec 05 00:56:40 <pieterc> I think you should do it wth the hw you got..
Dec 05 00:56:43 <raster> so u want to play on a treo650
Dec 05 00:56:44 <pieterc> we only got 2 buttons
Dec 05 00:56:57 <pieterc> it got more buttons
Dec 05 00:57:04 <pieterc> so you can use those buttons
Dec 05 00:57:37 <raster> or someone get oe + x (and openmoko or shr, or whastever distros) working on the iphone...
Dec 05 00:58:09 <pieterc> then you should fork that...
Dec 05 00:58:30 <pieterc> You don't run ubuntu on a pda aswell....
Dec 05 00:58:43 <pieterc> no?
Dec 05 00:59:16 <raster> no
Dec 05 00:59:17 <raster> hell no
Dec 05 00:59:45 <raster> but generally i'd say u make somethnig work in the most basic situation first
Dec 05 00:59:52 <raster> THEN add extra optional features to make it nicer
Dec 05 00:59:57 <raster> eg when u have accelerometers
Dec 05 01:01:45 <pieterc> I think that will lead to non efficient code...
Dec 05 01:01:57 <raster> i doubt it
Dec 05 01:02:02 <pieterc> I do think the Kernel should be quite the same on every device
Dec 05 01:02:10 <pieterc> but what's build up on it
Dec 05 01:02:17 <pieterc> should be coded individually
Dec 05 01:02:47 <raster> if (have accel) add_accel_input_to_input_stream();
Dec 05 01:03:01 <raster> add_handler(accel_input_ahndler);
Dec 05 01:03:30 <raster> the first turns on accels if they exist and sets up the accel data to come in
Dec 05 01:03:31 <pieterc> ok ok
Dec 05 01:03:43 <raster> the second jjust adds a input callback handler that like on key, mouse or any input
Dec 05 01:03:46 <raster> handles accel data
Dec 05 01:03:48 <raster> and thus "does things"
Dec 05 01:03:53 <raster> like chanes state
Dec 05 01:03:58 <raster> its zero more efficiency
Dec 05 01:04:02 <raster> err
Dec 05 01:04:06 <raster> zero inefficiency
Dec 05 01:04:21 <pieterc> okay... you're right
Dec 05 01:04:34 <raster> :)
Dec 05 01:04:49 <raster> you may turn off bits of the touchscrene ui too
Dec 05 01:04:51 <raster> if it makes sense
Dec 05 01:05:00 <raster> though as such i generally would say keep the ts ui
Dec 05 01:05:05 <raster> as its obvious
Dec 05 01:05:10 <raster> accelerometer control is not
Dec 05 01:05:18 <pieterc> What do you think of android then?
Dec 05 01:05:30 <raster> so u'd keep the ts controls until the user learnt how to use the accels
Dec 05 01:05:31 <pieterc> Google released the source
Dec 05 01:05:38 <pieterc> thinking the gsm you're working on
Dec 05 01:05:41 <pieterc> has a keyboard
Dec 05 01:05:46 <pieterc> has those buttons, etc etc
Dec 05 01:05:46 <raster> google is singing hte open tune
Dec 05 01:05:56 <raster> but imho not playing the open game
Dec 05 01:06:17 <raster> example
Dec 05 01:06:23 <raster> not really google
Dec 05 01:06:25 <raster> but those that use it
Dec 05 01:06:28 <raster> close it off
Dec 05 01:06:32 <raster> the t1 for example
Dec 05 01:06:48 <raster> and google have explicitly chosen to remove/modify a lot of userspace to remvoe gpl
Dec 05 01:06:53 <raster> or any license forcing openness
Dec 05 01:06:56 <raster> they have to with kernel
Dec 05 01:07:06 <raster> but as bes i know they use a bsd-licensed libc
Dec 05 01:07:17 <raster> and have used bsd or non-gpl licensed stuff everywhere they can
Dec 05 01:07:21 <raster> and have closed bits of the os
Dec 05 01:07:38 <raster> specifically to make manufacturers/carriers happy so they can clsoe things
Dec 05 01:08:04 <raster> also they are "lets invent yet another windowing system" and the "you must code apps our way with our language and vm and compiler"
Dec 05 01:08:09 <raster> whihc as a developer i really dont like
Dec 05 01:08:15 <raster> its play by their rules or go away
Dec 05 01:08:33 <pieterc> it gains efficiency though...
Dec 05 01:08:40 <raster> i dont think so
Dec 05 01:09:18 <pieterc> hmm
Dec 05 01:10:55 <pieterc> I think for a big company it's one step closer to a better world..
Dec 05 01:11:35 <pieterc> the iphone is totally closed
Dec 05 01:11:42 <pieterc> microsoft is not doing very well either
Dec 05 01:11:50 <pieterc> IBM didn't do a very open job ;)
Dec 05 01:12:08 <pieterc> the only rly big company i know that's supporting the open source community a little is google
Dec 05 01:13:07 <pieterc> (and of course openmoko inc ;) )
Dec 05 01:15:56 <Dave> So, how about that pandora?
Dec 05 01:16:28 <pieterc> Dave, pandora?
Dec 05 01:16:32 <pieterc> the radio?
Dec 05 01:16:39 <raster> holy crap
Dec 05 01:16:48 <raster> my treop650 beats the pants off my fr
Dec 05 01:17:06 <raster> at least in tersm of gettign exquisitie up
Dec 05 01:17:15 <raster> its up in like 2 seconds from init
Dec 05 01:17:34 <Dave> Raster - I TOLD YOU!
Dec 05 01:18:27 <raster> ?
Dec 05 01:19:57 <pieterc> how to turn gps on in command line?
Dec 05 01:20:06 <pieterc> gpsd?
Dec 05 01:20:40 <Dave> depends on the distro
Dec 05 01:20:41 <Dave> but yeah
Dec 05 01:20:50 <pieterc> no command gpsd in SHR
Dec 05 01:21:31 <pieterc> fso-gpsd
Dec 05 01:21:34 <pieterc> found it
Dec 05 01:21:34 <pieterc> ;)
Dec 05 01:22:28 <Dave> :)
Dec 05 01:27:29 <pieterc> raster, what keyboard do you use for typing an sms?
Dec 05 01:27:51 <Dave> his own? :p
Dec 05 01:27:57 <raster> pieterc: i've never sent an sms from my fr
Dec 05 01:27:58 <raster> :)
Dec 05 01:28:01 <pieterc> ... ok, tha's abvuoous ;)
Dec 05 01:28:03 <pieterc> hah
Dec 05 01:28:06 <pieterc> ...
Dec 05 01:28:06 <pieterc> ok
Dec 05 01:28:11 <raster> but when i have done typing - it's illume's kbd
Dec 05 01:28:20 <pieterc> ok
Dec 05 01:28:21 <raster> i dont use my fr as a phone
Dec 05 01:28:24 <raster> its not reliable
Dec 05 01:28:27 <raster> or hasnt been
Dec 05 01:28:39 <pieterc> hmm
Dec 05 01:28:40 <raster> but i have manby times tested it
Dec 05 01:28:47 <raster> i just write "stuff"
Dec 05 01:28:51 <raster> into the terminal
Dec 05 01:28:51 <pieterc> :)
Dec 05 01:28:54 <raster> as if it were an sms
Dec 05 01:29:11 <raster> ie "hey there mate! yes. i am coming tonight. what about the others?"
Dec 05 01:29:13 <raster> etc. etc.
Dec 05 01:29:14 <pieterc> it's just that for typing sms... i'd like a multi tap keyboard
Dec 05 01:29:17 <raster> and just write streams of it to see
Dec 05 01:29:29 <raster> and it works nicely for me
Dec 05 01:29:33 <raster> once you train it a bit
Dec 05 01:29:38 <raster> ie enter words you commonly use
Dec 05 01:29:40 <pieterc> right... but isn't really finger friendly
Dec 05 01:29:49 <raster> as its frequency map and dict may not agree with your general usage
Dec 05 01:29:56 <pieterc> I play guitar and i got long nails...
Dec 05 01:29:59 <raster> its more finger friendly than most things
Dec 05 01:30:11 <pieterc> so i really can touch small things
Dec 05 01:30:12 <raster> its better than multi-tap
Dec 05 01:30:14 <pieterc> but still ;)
Dec 05 01:30:15 <raster> as i tap less
Dec 05 01:30:30 <raster> i use my finger flats
Dec 05 01:30:35 <raster> not even my nails for typing
Dec 05 01:30:39 <pieterc> I can't;)
Dec 05 01:31:35 <pieterc> seems like input methods are not that easy for small devices
Dec 05 01:31:52 <pieterc> One day i'll come op with a revolutionary input method for small devices;)
Dec 05 01:32:48 <pieterc> and it'll beat the raster keyboard...
Dec 05 01:32:51 <pieterc> and stuff...
Dec 05 01:32:52 <pieterc> ;)
Dec 05 01:33:11 <pieterc> ok
Dec 05 01:33:15 <pieterc> but now i rly g2g ;)
Dec 05 01:33:17 <pieterc> bye
Dec 05 01:33:24 <pieterc> ty for the chat
Dec 05 01:38:06 <Dave> :D
Dec 05 01:44:35 <b0ef> ehlo
Dec 05 01:44:38 <b0ef> what module in fso actually talks to alsa?
Dec 05 02:01:43 <b0ef> mk, so this is wired in hardware..?
Dec 05 02:01:59 <b0ef> how can I actually get the audio stream, then?
Dec 05 02:23:35 <Grarg> b0ef, it's not hardware, you can grab audio streams
Dec 05 02:23:45 <Grarg> you may not have enough power to process them realtime though
Dec 05 02:23:55 <Grarg> and also, I don't know if alsa is used
Dec 05 02:25:12 <b0ef> Grarg: thanks; so a module in fso grabs this audio stream from somewhere?? and sends it to somewhere??;)
Dec 05 02:26:01 <b0ef> also questionmark on the module..;)
Dec 05 02:26:09 <b0ef> it's not gsmd, it seems
Dec 05 02:26:14 <Grarg> well, what are we talking about here, a phone call?
Dec 05 02:26:20 <b0ef> yes
Dec 05 02:27:09 <Grarg> I'm guessing here, but I figure it must be grabbed by fso from gsmd, decoded, and sent to alsa (or pulse or whatever's running)
Dec 05 02:27:53 <b0ef> right, that's what I guessed too, but I can't exactly find the code 
Dec 05 02:29:49 <Grarg> start with the dialer, it has to set it up somehow
Dec 05 02:30:25 <b0ef> yeah, I can trace this down, but I thought it might be general knowledge and talked about somewhere;)
Dec 05 02:31:03 <Grarg> it may be, I don't know enough
Dec 05 02:31:18 <b0ef> right, thanks
Dec 05 02:32:20 <b0ef> I think it might be that it's wired directly chip to chip
Dec 05 02:32:36 <b0ef> that would blow, though;)
Dec 05 02:32:59 <Grarg> I can almost guarantee thats not the case
Dec 05 02:33:32 <Grarg> I seem to remember some issue related to this many months ago
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 05 02:59:58 2008