**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 29 02:59:56 2008
Dec 29 04:24:06 <Vegar> bare bra, Dave 
Dec 29 05:09:43 <kd8ikt> anyone try bearstech's gta02 kernel?
Dec 29 06:19:35 <Dave> kd8 :)
Dec 29 06:32:16 <kd8ikt> my gps is are died
Dec 29 06:34:23 <kd8ikt> boom got a lock
Dec 29 06:34:33 <kd8ikt> <=happy camper
Dec 29 07:07:01 <kd8ikt> like my hardware clock is changeing
Dec 29 07:09:23 <kd8ikt> is it normal the hawrdware clock isnt working
Dec 29 07:09:39 <kd8ikt> its terribly skewed
Dec 29 07:52:40 <mrmoku> stefan_schmidt: morning
Dec 29 07:53:11 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: hi
Dec 29 07:53:44 <mrmoku> stefan_schmidt: did you notice your fso-gpsd initscript breakage? :p
Dec 29 07:54:12 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: yup
Dec 29 07:54:27 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: :)
Dec 29 07:54:47 <stefan_schmidt> Has to wait a bit longer.
Dec 29 07:55:17 <mrmoku> for SHR I added a patch... so I don't care personally ;)
Dec 29 07:55:21 <mrmoku> fixing is easy though
Dec 29 07:56:14 <mrmoku> anyway have to go to office now... have a nice day :-)
Dec 29 07:56:15 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: should be yes, I just haven't looked at it
Dec 29 07:56:22 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: same for you
Dec 29 08:00:14 <raster> damnit
Dec 29 08:00:43 <raster> why doesnt it know of -mfpu=neon
Dec 29 08:01:59 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: are you the "release dude" for MS5?
Dec 29 08:03:14 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: I am. But I'm on holiday until next year. :)
Dec 29 08:04:14 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: so, that means no release goals discussion until 00:00:00 01 Jan 09?
Dec 29 08:04:41 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: UTC?
Dec 29 08:05:05 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: heh, well, I'm here, but I did not sleep the last 24 hours...
Dec 29 08:05:18 <stefan_schmidt> Might be hard to discuss with me atm
Dec 29 08:05:20 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: are you at ccc?
Dec 29 08:05:27 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: yes
Dec 29 08:05:53 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: That the "holiday" :)
Dec 29 08:06:56 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: Ok, ccc is sacred. I'll wait until the next year. But please, put somehow in your memory, that not exactly everybody happy with the release goals for MS5 and implementation of ogsmd.
Dec 29 08:09:29 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: hmm, what exactly is the problem you have in mind?
Dec 29 08:10:41 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: exactly i suspect that ogsmd design is prone to races. And it shows off all over the places. #31 is a good example.
Dec 29 08:11:25 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: and alphaone confirmed that he thinks that resource allocation system is prone to races too.
Dec 29 08:11:48 <alphaone> Well, it's more a fact
Dec 29 08:13:12 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: I suspect that for the sake of stability the design should be carefully re-thinked and (probably) reimplemented. And i suspect that SHR and paroli folks will be happy to see stable first, feature-rich second framework. But stability and good design should be the first. I guess.
Dec 29 08:14:47 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: well, I think that it is not as easy as "just stop everything else", but I put it in my mind and will bring it up again later
Dec 29 08:15:58 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: And please, try to discuss the release goals with all the interested parties, especially SHR. Thank you for listening. And for your work :)
Dec 29 08:16:52 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: hmm, this goals has been there for months
Dec 29 08:17:02 <stefan_schmidt> http://trac.freesmartphone.org/roadmap
Dec 29 08:17:18 <stefan_schmidt> Has no changed that much over time
Dec 29 08:17:44 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: But yes, I also see communication problems
Dec 29 08:19:15 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: sure. I'm afraid that SHR folks didn't have time to verify the design of ogsmd to see how it sometimes sucks. And look at #31. Please notice the dates, you'll see that there's certainly a problem with communication and that it impacts stability.
Dec 29 08:21:35 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: opened in a browser tab and scheduled for a timeslot after some sleep
Dec 29 08:21:36 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: moreover, do you know about the recent problems quickdev faced with gsm0710muxd? He tried to investigate it, he asked Mickey. They stopped the investigation due to lack of time and/or interest. I found the source of a problem and proposed a patch, that fixed the issue for quickdev, btw. But it is about the stability! It is what should matter for the FSO team, imho.
Dec 29 08:22:35 <PaulFertser> stefan_schmidt: Ok, thank you again for listening. "Good night, sleep tight" :)
Dec 29 08:23:25 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser: thanks
Dec 29 09:39:47 <quickdev> Morning
Dec 29 09:51:53 <Hire> morgen
Dec 29 09:52:21 <quickdev> Hire, everything fine?
Dec 29 09:52:42 <quickdev> have you learned tedesco? ;)
Dec 29 09:53:02 <Hire> no :)
Dec 29 09:53:19 <quickdev> I'm probably going to take an italian course in february 
Dec 29 09:53:36 <admiral0> quickdev... there is a funny thing about german
Dec 29 09:53:45 <quickdev> admiral0, tell me ;)
Dec 29 09:54:02 <admiral0> sterben in milan dialect means to stay well ^^
Dec 29 09:54:11 <Hire> this morning my stupid Lupo has decided to brake a two candle's cable 
Dec 29 09:54:20 <Hire> so now i don't have a car for 10 days 
Dec 29 09:54:38 <quickdev> Hire, argh..
Dec 29 09:54:40 <Hire> quickdev: interesting :D 
Dec 29 09:54:53 <quickdev> admiral0, hrr :(
Dec 29 09:54:59 <quickdev> s/(/)/
Dec 29 09:54:59 <bzzbot> quickdev meant: admiral0, hrr :)
Dec 29 09:55:33 <quickdev> admiral0, you are from milano?
Dec 29 09:55:38 <admiral0> yes
Dec 29 09:55:59 <admiral0> not really in the city, but i'm studying there
Dec 29 09:56:03 <PBeck> ahoi
Dec 29 09:56:16 <quickdev> admiral0, what are you studying if I may ask :)
Dec 29 09:56:17 <quickdev> Hey PBeck 
Dec 29 09:56:33 <PBeck> :)
Dec 29 09:56:53 <admiral0> i'm studying to be an informatics engineer
Dec 29 09:56:56 <admiral0> :)
Dec 29 09:57:13 <PBeck> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/f6247334cdd794c5cbad182840f86e04.png <= new gui for shr?
Dec 29 09:57:53 <admiral0> that involves also hardware as i know. As you can guess i am interested in embedded systems
Dec 29 09:58:27 <quickdev> admiral0, very interesting :) Perhaps I'm going to study something like that, too :)
Dec 29 09:59:03 <quickdev> PBeck, just a mockup afaik. But themes can be created easily.
Dec 29 09:59:30 <PBeck> quickdev: perhaps i should test the unstable image - i think there many updates there :)
Dec 29 10:00:07 <quickdev> PBeck, if you haven't tried shr-unstable yet, then there are updates, yeah :)
Dec 29 10:00:24 <admiral0> quickdev.. well the phone ui is cool
Dec 29 10:01:21 <quickdev> admiral0, which one? 
Dec 29 10:01:32 <admiral0> i've been using usntable for 2 days without problems
Dec 29 10:01:46 <quickdev> glad to hear
Dec 29 10:02:01 <admiral0> s/usntable/unstable/
Dec 29 10:02:02 <bzzbot> admiral0 meant: i've been using unstable for 2 days without problems
Dec 29 10:02:41 <admiral0> the integration between apps is good, but not enough yet
Dec 29 10:02:55 <admiral0> Phonelog needs some love
Dec 29 10:02:58 <quickdev> admiral0, could you have a look at the trac and add tickets if something is missing?
Dec 29 10:03:07 <quickdev> admiral0, TAsn is the phonelog guy ;)
Dec 29 10:03:10 <PBeck> admiral0: phonelog is gtk, right?
Dec 29 10:03:20 <admiral0> yes
Dec 29 10:03:24 <quickdev> afaik, yes
Dec 29 10:03:28 <admiral0> ugly widgets
Dec 29 10:03:33 <PBeck> admiral0: hrhr - good integration into elementary :>
Dec 29 10:03:52 <admiral0> i am learning edje
Dec 29 10:04:15 <quickdev> edje is cute
Dec 29 10:04:39 <PBeck> i think edje is not the right answer to gtk
Dec 29 10:04:42 <admiral0> it's developer-friendly as a metal block though
Dec 29 10:04:47 <PBeck> elementary is equal to gtk
Dec 29 10:05:05 <admiral0> one little difference
Dec 29 10:05:11 <PBeck> you have to much options to do a work in this way or an other
Dec 29 10:05:21 <admiral0> elementary was made for the embedded devices
Dec 29 10:05:33 <PBeck> to much freedom
Dec 29 10:06:06 <PBeck> admiral0: on the desktop you can use ewl (or the not maintained etk
Dec 29 10:06:35 <PBeck> edje is not a widget-set. It's a descriptions-language i think
Dec 29 10:06:40 <admiral0> yes
Dec 29 10:06:41 <quickdev> admiral0, what isn't developer friendly? elementary?
Dec 29 10:06:46 <admiral0> but i want to learn it
Dec 29 10:07:02 <admiral0> all about enlightenment
Dec 29 10:07:29 <admiral0> it's has a strange, peculiar aproach
Dec 29 10:07:38 <admiral0> at least for me
Dec 29 10:07:50 <admiral0> i have to get used to it
Dec 29 10:08:31 <quickdev> admiral0, yeah, it's different from common things...but I like it :)
Dec 29 10:09:12 <PBeck> admiral0: thats not wrong - freedom :)
Dec 29 10:09:12 <admiral0> that doesn't mean i don't like it :) i'm used to kde and qt making my life damn easy
Dec 29 10:10:11 <admiral0> PBeck. i agree. Everyone can find his perfect developing tools
Dec 29 10:10:24 <admiral0> and that's just fantastic
Dec 29 10:15:08 <TAsn> admiral0, it's not that gtk is especially ugly, it's just that we need a good gtkrc.
Dec 29 10:15:28 <raster> admiral0: elementary shouldbe reminiscent of gtk in many ways
Dec 29 10:15:39 <raster> but more efl-ish with much stricter call naming conventions
Dec 29 10:16:15 <quickdev> raster, are you working on a lib that is going to take the functionality of frameworkd-glib without the glib dependency?
Dec 29 10:18:15 <admiral0> TAsn, yes, sure, but elementary works out of the box for everybody
Dec 29 10:18:45 <raster> quickdev: libefso - swisscom is doing it
Dec 29 10:18:47 <raster> :)
Dec 29 10:19:28 <quickdev> fine :)
Dec 29 10:21:08 <raster> as for gtk vs elementary
Dec 29 10:21:14 <raster> gtk is by far and wide more mature
Dec 29 10:21:20 <raster> but it also is much mroe limited in how it can look
Dec 29 10:21:26 <raster> if all u want is solid background colors
Dec 29 10:21:27 <admiral0> there is no gtk vs elementary raster
Dec 29 10:21:29 <raster> and boxes
Dec 29 10:21:34 <raster> and traditional-looking widgets
Dec 29 10:21:37 <raster> gtk is fine
Dec 29 10:21:44 <raster> its a good widget set
Dec 29 10:21:50 <raster> just come up with a spiffy gtkrc
Dec 29 10:21:55 <raster> elementary is a different beast
Dec 29 10:22:06 <raster> its much more focused on working on embedded - right now touchscreen
Dec 29 10:22:08 <TAsn> raster, I already said my only problem with efl which is a deal breaker for me, RTL support ;[
Dec 29 10:22:17 <raster> later also add in keyboard (keypad) navigation
Dec 29 10:22:37 <raster> but look-=wise its much more focused on being able to look funky and have really slick layout and effects
Dec 29 10:22:48 <raster> all the "Trimmings" are much more flexible and "accurate"
Dec 29 10:22:57 <raster> yeah
Dec 29 10:23:13 <raster> RTL just isnt supported as we've never had anyone help to do it
Dec 29 10:23:16 <raster> i speak no RTL langs
Dec 29 10:23:28 <raster> in fact the only e devs that do - hat them and prefer english
Dec 29 10:23:34 <TAsn> I know.
Dec 29 10:23:38 <TAsn> I also prefer english
Dec 29 10:23:38 <raster> so they are disinterested in doing support
Dec 29 10:23:47 <raster> (our lebanese guys)
Dec 29 10:23:47 <TAsn> In my pov, rtl should die.
Dec 29 10:23:59 <TAsn> but I still have to use it ;[
Dec 29 10:24:55 <raster> yeah - well if one day someone wants to do patches.. by all means
Dec 29 10:25:14 <raster> i still am wanting to make general input methods work for asian langs
Dec 29 10:25:25 <TAsn> ;\
Dec 29 10:25:28 <raster> (and in all honesty asian languages are by far and wide much more important than RTL)
Dec 29 10:25:32 <raster> display works fine
Dec 29 10:25:48 <raster> just text input doesnt as we dont have any solid xim/etc. support
Dec 29 10:27:22 <TAsn> I agree about the asian langs.
Dec 29 10:27:28 <TAsn> though as you said, that's also an issue.
Dec 29 10:27:48 <raster> yup
Dec 29 10:27:52 <TAsn> anyhow, I don't know much about asain langs thoughI think they are much more complicated to handle than RTL
Dec 29 10:27:55 <raster> on the list of issues - its higher up the food chain
Dec 29 10:27:58 <raster> :)
Dec 29 10:28:03 <raster> hmm
Dec 29 10:28:06 <raster> no asian are simpler
Dec 29 10:28:10 <raster> for display
Dec 29 10:28:13 <raster> they are dead-easy
Dec 29 10:28:18 <admiral0> what is RTL?
Dec 29 10:28:19 <raster> simply support more than ascii
Dec 29 10:28:23 <raster> (ie utf8)
Dec 29 10:28:26 <raster> and you're done
Dec 29 10:28:31 <raster> you simpy need to support a LOT of chars
Dec 29 10:28:37 <raster> right to left
Dec 29 10:28:42 <TAsn> raster, don't they write from top to bottom is some languages?
Dec 29 10:28:45 <raster> (arabic, hebrew, farsi for example)
Dec 29 10:28:53 <raster> aaah traditionalyul they do
Dec 29 10:28:56 <raster> but they stopped
Dec 29 10:29:02 <TAsn> hehe ok ;]
Dec 29 10:29:04 <raster> modern asian is left-to-right
Dec 29 10:29:17 <raster> every asian document i've seen is left-to-right
Dec 29 10:29:24 <TAsn> I think we should also change modern hebrew and arabic ;]
Dec 29 10:29:39 <TAsn> traditional will be rtl, modern will be English ;]
Dec 29 10:29:43 <raster> only oldschool typesetted stuff like newspapers and magazines pretend to do top-to-bottom (and then right-to-left)
Dec 29 10:29:52 <raster> modern on-screne display is same ans western
Dec 29 10:30:08 <raster> so as such asian display is trivial
Dec 29 10:30:10 <TAsn> raster, cool, they are surely smarter than the decision makers around here.
Dec 29 10:30:13 <raster> just handle buttloads fo chars
Dec 29 10:30:17 <TAsn> raster, I agree.
Dec 29 10:30:24 <TAsn> isn't that just a fontset?
Dec 29 10:30:24 <raster> INPUT is a bitch
Dec 29 10:30:28 <raster> for japanese... 
Dec 29 10:30:31 <raster> yup
Dec 29 10:30:34 <TAsn> raster, yeah ;\
Dec 29 10:30:39 <raster> handle fontsets and an encoding that can encode 1000's of cvhars
Dec 29 10:30:43 <raster> ie uniocde and utf8
Dec 29 10:30:45 <raster> problem solved
Dec 29 10:30:56 <TAsn> isn't that already there?
Dec 29 10:31:07 <raster> yup
Dec 29 10:31:13 <raster> in efl
Dec 29 10:31:13 <raster> all done
Dec 29 10:31:17 <raster> input means handlign complex input method
Dec 29 10:31:20 <raster> methods
Dec 29 10:31:21 <TAsn> so what's missing for asian lang support
Dec 29 10:31:24 <TAsn> oh, input.
Dec 29 10:31:32 <raster> that is "underway"
Dec 29 10:31:43 <TAsn> cool.
Dec 29 10:32:19 <TAsn> well I'm going to get something to eat. I'm starving, anyhow, thanks for your time. ;]
Dec 29 10:32:26 <raster> i speak/read/write japanese
Dec 29 10:32:44 <raster> and so far from whatg i have learnt of chinese (pinyin for example) and korean input
Dec 29 10:32:50 <raster> japanese takes the cake as most complex
Dec 29 10:33:06 <raster> chinese is a slimpler version basically
Dec 29 10:33:09 <raster> with only kanji matches
Dec 29 10:33:30 <raster> korean is even simpler as its a 1:1 match for any romanised input sequence
Dec 29 10:33:32 <TAsn> I sadly don't speak any asain languages.
Dec 29 10:33:40 <raster> in fact hangul is impressively logical
Dec 29 10:33:51 <raster> i give it thumbs up for a pretty good writing system
Dec 29 10:33:55 <raster> beats latin text
Dec 29 10:34:08 <quickdev> raster, what did you push to learn japanese? :)
Dec 29 10:34:23 <raster> quickdev:  push?
Dec 29 10:34:32 <quickdev> s/what did you push/what pushed you/
Dec 29 10:34:34 <bzzbot> quickdev meant: raster, what pushed you to learn japanese? :)
Dec 29 10:34:40 <quickdev> raster, what made you to learn it?
Dec 29 10:36:06 <raster> i lived in tokyo for 4 years
Dec 29 10:36:06 <raster> :)
Dec 29 10:37:14 <PBeck> raster: you had no choice :>
Dec 29 10:37:45 <PBeck> raster: und deutsch kannst du auch noch, richtig? :D
Dec 29 10:37:56 <raster> well actually - u'd be surprised how far you can get on only english
Dec 29 10:38:10 <raster> ja - immernoch
Dec 29 10:38:29 <raster> leider ist es selten nötig deutsch zu kwatschen.
Dec 29 10:38:41 <PBeck> hehe :)
Dec 29 10:38:43 <quickdev> s/kw/qu/ :)
Dec 29 10:38:55 <quickdev> raster, wo bist du geboren wenn man fragen darf?
Dec 29 10:39:02 <raster> et le francais aussie - mais j'ai oublie beaucoup
Dec 29 10:39:10 <PBeck> urgh ^^
Dec 29 10:39:19 <admiral0> moi aussi mais je ne parle pas l'allemand
Dec 29 10:39:20 <raster> e eu falo un poucou de portugues
Dec 29 10:39:39 <admiral0> raster: :O
Dec 29 10:39:41 <raster> y as pocas palabras en espanol
Dec 29 10:40:31 <raster> 日本語もちゃべれます
Dec 29 10:40:49 <raster> quickdev: in nigeria
Dec 29 10:40:55 <raster> abeokuta
Dec 29 10:41:13 <PBeck> dann bleiben wir doch lieber bei deutsch oder englisch ;)
Dec 29 10:42:03 <ajuonline> i am testing out android on fr, facing this http://pastebin.ca/1295779
Dec 29 10:42:14 <ajuonline> any ideas? what is wrong.
Dec 29 10:42:45 <raster> entweder oder
Dec 29 10:42:48 <raster> :)
Dec 29 10:43:21 <PBeck> raster: wenn ich jetzt deutsch sage sind alle eingeschnappt ^^
Dec 29 10:44:42 <raster> eirdend wann wird einer es uns sagen das es wieder in englisch sein sollte :)
Dec 29 10:45:25 <PBeck> bestimmt ;)
Dec 29 10:45:29 <admiral0> damn.. why german i don't understand anything :( have i got to talk russian?
Dec 29 10:45:37 <admiral0> :P
Dec 29 10:45:57 <PBeck> admiral0: nobody understands russian in this channel :> you are alone ;)
Dec 29 10:46:05 <admiral0> d'oh
Dec 29 10:46:06 <PaulFertser> PBeck: you're wrong
Dec 29 10:46:10 <PBeck> argh :p
Dec 29 10:46:16 <PaulFertser> admiral0: Privet, chuvak :)
Dec 29 10:46:23 <PBeck> PaulFertser: pst ;
Dec 29 10:46:24 <PBeck> ;)
Dec 29 10:46:40 <admiral0> Privet. Kak u tebea?
Dec 29 10:47:29 <PBeck> old - linux distribution flamewar => now and in future the language-flamewar :D
Dec 29 10:47:41 <admiral0> lol
Dec 29 10:47:58 <PaulFertser> admiral0: nadeus, eto ritoricheskiy vopros? Sorry, guys, there's nothing interesting in input methods wrt russian. Not even pinyin needed ;)
Dec 29 10:48:02 <admiral0> a ia uje zabivaiu russkii iazik
Dec 29 10:48:36 <raster> da tovarish
Dec 29 10:49:20 <PaulFertser> raster: hey :) do you know we rarely call each other "tovarish" nowadays? It bears too much soviet connotations ;)
Dec 29 10:49:21 <raster> you got me there
Dec 29 10:49:34 <raster> my russian consists of only the vital bits
Dec 29 10:50:01 <PaulFertser> raster: we use "tovarish" usually for describing not-close-friend.
Dec 29 10:50:11 <raster> "da! tovarish! nastariovje! vodka! niet!"
Dec 29 10:50:37 <raster> aaaah
Dec 29 10:50:47 <raster> oh yeah
Dec 29 10:50:47 <raster> ya riba!
Dec 29 10:50:49 <raster> (i am a fish)
Dec 29 10:50:51 <raster> important phrase
Dec 29 10:50:52 <admiral0> lol
Dec 29 10:50:58 <raster> so what do i use now instead of tovarish?
Dec 29 10:52:07 <PaulFertser> raster: informally hippyish people call each other "dude" -- "chuvak" :)
Dec 29 10:53:40 <raster> chuvak!
Dec 29 10:53:50 <raster> nastarovje!
Dec 29 10:54:45 <admiral0> that s is more like a z to me
Dec 29 10:54:55 <PaulFertser> TAsn: lechaim
Dec 29 10:55:46 <raster> no idea how to write it
Dec 29 10:55:48 <raster> :)
Dec 29 10:56:16 <TAsn> PaulFertser, lol, are you jewish or do you just know how to say that?
Dec 29 10:56:17 <raster> i just hope that if i find myself in rissia one day i'm all set for gettign  arround with my amazing grasp of the russian language
Dec 29 10:56:20 <raster> :)
Dec 29 10:56:41 <PaulFertser> TAsn: according to the "official" classification i'm a son of a jew.
Dec 29 10:57:23 <PaulFertser> raster: You've enough knowledge of russian to live here, indeed. Vodka \"uber alles ;)
Dec 29 10:57:25 <admiral0> i prefer russian girls.
Dec 29 10:57:27 <admiral0> :P
Dec 29 10:57:28 <TAsn> actually if you want to go by the official jewish classification, your mother must be a jew.
Dec 29 10:57:36 <raster> PaulFertser: hahahaha
Dec 29 10:57:44 <TAsn> PaulFertser, oh right, we already spoke about Israel ;]
Dec 29 10:58:28 <raster> PaulFertser: l where in .ru?
Dec 29 10:58:38 <raster> one day i should go to .ru
Dec 29 10:58:44 <raster> one of those places i should visit
Dec 29 10:58:48 <raster> no idea whats its like
Dec 29 10:58:54 <raster> only seen it in movies
Dec 29 10:58:56 <TAsn> raster, I see you are very multicultural...
Dec 29 10:59:07 <PaulFertser> raster: the Red Square? ;)
Dec 29 10:59:14 <raster> TAsn: i like to take an interest in the world :)
Dec 29 10:59:21 <TAsn> raster, ;]
Dec 29 10:59:27 <raster> i've lived on every continent except antarctica and south america
Dec 29 10:59:29 <polz> hmm.. I thought Moscow wasn't really russian
Dec 29 10:59:38 <PaulFertser> raster: The Moscow Polytechnical Museum! :)
Dec 29 10:59:49 <TAsn> You are more than invited to come here and learn Hebrew ;]
Dec 29 10:59:54 <raster> i've travelled to every continetn except antarctica (and i hope one day i can rectify that with a quick in-and-out visit)
Dec 29 10:59:55 <polz> at least that's what I've heard from people living in Kurgan - Moscow is a different country :P
Dec 29 11:00:04 <raster> PaulFertser: aaah moscow!
Dec 29 11:00:21 <admiral0> raster have you visited italy?
Dec 29 11:00:22 <raster> PaulFertser:  cool. that or st. petersberg would be the 2 destinations i'd choose in .ru
Dec 29 11:00:27 <raster> as i really dont know much else
Dec 29 11:00:57 <raster> TAsn: i'd be happy to visit - but i think i reached my langauge limit
Dec 29 11:01:08 <raster> brain has had enough and called ti quits at portuguese
Dec 29 11:01:20 <TAsn> raster, ;]
Dec 29 11:01:28 <raster> admiral0: yup. been to rome
Dec 29 11:01:35 <polz> btw, is anyone here working on shr? Lately, I haven't been able to pick up any calls
Dec 29 11:01:50 <polz> so I'm wondering - is this a known bug?
Dec 29 11:02:06 <raster> rome was nice
Dec 29 11:02:12 <raster> not as majestic as i had expected though
Dec 29 11:02:15 <TAsn> I have not encountered this bug, though I use an older version.
Dec 29 11:02:18 <raster> then again i studied latin
Dec 29 11:02:26 <polz> TAsn: from when?
Dec 29 11:02:32 <TAsn> raster, rome is amazing!
Dec 29 11:02:34 <raster> and so that kind of built up some expectations as all the latin books talked about ancient rome
Dec 29 11:02:39 <TAsn> polz, 16dec iirc
Dec 29 11:02:48 <raster> a lot of the old stuff in rome isnt that well looked after :(
Dec 29 11:02:54 <TAsn> raster, you are probably right.
Dec 29 11:02:54 <raster> but its still cool
Dec 29 11:03:07 <TAsn> raster, the girls are still great.!
Dec 29 11:03:12 <raster> just wanst hwta expectations had built up
Dec 29 11:03:17 <admiral0> raster. I prefer MIlan
Dec 29 11:03:18 <raster> what
Dec 29 11:03:19 <polz> TAsn: I beleive that's the same version as what I'm using
Dec 29 11:03:25 <raster> one day i'
Dec 29 11:03:29 <admiral0> it's my city
Dec 29 11:03:31 <raster> one day i'll move "back" to europe
Dec 29 11:03:39 <TAsn> polz, no idea then. try to flash a newer one.
Dec 29 11:03:41 <raster> i'm considering living in .ch
Dec 29 11:03:47 <raster> mountains. skiing. low taxes
Dec 29 11:03:51 <TAsn> I think I'm using a self built ophonekitd and libframework though I'm not sure.
Dec 29 11:03:53 <admiral0> yeah
Dec 29 11:03:55 <raster> and i speak the lingo
Dec 29 11:03:55 <admiral0> nice
Dec 29 11:04:07 <TAsn> raster, where do you live nowL
Dec 29 11:04:12 <TAsn> ?
Dec 29 11:04:12 <raster> but from .ch it's a short drive to .it, .de, .fr, .at, etc. etc.
Dec 29 11:04:24 <raster> (and having grown up in .au - a short drive is 500km)
Dec 29 11:04:27 <raster> sydney
Dec 29 11:04:37 <TAsn> cool.
Dec 29 11:04:44 <TAsn> do you surf? ;[
Dec 29 11:04:46 <TAsn> * ;]
Dec 29 11:04:49 <soltys> ;)
Dec 29 11:04:51 <raster> the net
Dec 29 11:04:54 <soltys> morning
Dec 29 11:04:54 <raster> :)
Dec 29 11:04:56 <TAsn> good enough.
Dec 29 11:04:58 <polz> do newer ones exist? The latest I've seen for the gta01 is from dec. 15.
Dec 29 11:05:09 <TAsn> polz, oh, you have gta01?
Dec 29 11:05:10 <admiral0> raster when you'll live in .ch maybe we'll have time to drink a beer in some bar ;)
Dec 29 11:05:17 <raster> i might
Dec 29 11:05:17 <TAsn> I think you'll have to use mwester's kernel
Dec 29 11:05:38 <raster> the whole point of moving to europe would be to get around all of europe
Dec 29 11:05:42 <raster> its a great place
Dec 29 11:05:45 <polz> TAsn: I'm already using it.
Dec 29 11:05:48 <raster> so much hsitory and culture in a small spot
Dec 29 11:05:48 <TAsn> well I'm off again, IRC can get too time consuming
Dec 29 11:06:03 <raster> ytou can go 100km souht and you're in a new world
Dec 29 11:06:03 <TAsn> polz, since I have a gta02 I can't help you that much.
Dec 29 11:06:04 <TAsn> sorry.
Dec 29 11:06:09 <raster> 100km north - and again totally different
Dec 29 11:06:11 <raster> or east or west
Dec 29 11:06:13 <raster> in .au
Dec 29 11:06:23 <TAsn> I would also like to move to eu
Dec 29 11:06:24 <raster> go 100km in any direction and you either are drowning in the ocean
Dec 29 11:06:27 <raster> or its "more of the same"
Dec 29 11:06:29 <TAsn> that's why I'm studying italian.
Dec 29 11:06:30 <raster> :)
Dec 29 11:06:41 <TAsn> but I don't have that much time
Dec 29 11:06:42 <raster> TAsn:  bene bene!
Dec 29 11:06:44 <raster> :)
Dec 29 11:06:50 <admiral0> i speak italian
Dec 29 11:06:52 <TAsn> so I start stop all the time.
Dec 29 11:06:53 <admiral0> ;)
Dec 29 11:06:56 <raster> italian should be easy to pick up
Dec 29 11:07:00 <TAsn> raster, it is
Dec 29 11:07:05 <polz> raster: how come you've decided to learn czech?
Dec 29 11:07:07 <raster> at least for me :)
Dec 29 11:07:20 <raster> polz:  i didnt... ?
Dec 29 11:07:30 <raster> move to .ch - not .cz
Dec 29 11:07:32 <TAsn> especially since I used to understand french very well and speak not so bad.
Dec 29 11:07:37 <raster> (ch == switzerland)
Dec 29 11:07:40 <admiral0> raster, you know latin if i understood well. any of latin languages should be simple to you
Dec 29 11:07:51 <polz> [12:03] <raster> i'm considering living in .ch <- polz is an idiot, mixing up .cz and .ch
Dec 29 11:08:04 <PBeck> raster: switzer-deutsch :D
Dec 29 11:08:11 <raster> admiral0: just give me sone drinks - some cute girls - and i'll be chatting italian in a few hours :)
Dec 29 11:08:11 <TAsn> admiral0, same goes for anyone who knows any latin language.
Dec 29 11:08:12 <polz> both have low taxes and ski resorts :)
Dec 29 11:08:15 <raster> (need incentive!)
Dec 29 11:08:17 <raster> :)
Dec 29 11:08:30 <raster> PBeck: its not that hard to understand
Dec 29 11:08:30 <TAsn> raster, lol.
Dec 29 11:08:30 <polz> oh, and food is cheaper in .cz :)
Dec 29 11:08:41 <raster> PBeck:  after you've gottne used to the myriad of english dialects
Dec 29 11:08:46 <admiral0> who cares about food?
Dec 29 11:08:55 <raster> and learnt a few languges - you pattern-match and "best fit" to figure stuff out all the time
Dec 29 11:09:12 <polz> admiral0: what else do you need? :)
Dec 29 11:09:20 <raster> admiral0: just organise the chicks. :)
Dec 29 11:09:25 <admiral0> yeah
Dec 29 11:09:26 <PBeck> raster: ;)
Dec 29 11:09:28 <raster> hehehehhe
Dec 29 11:09:40 <raster> mia bella!
Dec 29 11:09:45 <admiral0> lol
Dec 29 11:09:57 <admiral0> shuld say
Dec 29 11:09:57 <raster> (i guess thats right?)
Dec 29 11:09:57 <PBeck> raster: du musst mal das bundesland sachsen besuchen - nix mit hochdeutsch ;) 
Dec 29 11:09:59 <admiral0> bellissima
Dec 29 11:10:26 <PBeck> raster: da ist schweizer-deutsch noch schön dagegen ^^
Dec 29 11:10:49 <admiral0> (it's correct but belllissima is better as it's a superlative :P )
Dec 29 11:16:11 <raster> PBeck: hahahahaha
Dec 29 11:16:35 <raster> admiral0: well belissima will get you more mileage :)
Dec 29 11:17:32 <admiral0> :D
Dec 29 11:20:10 <quickdev> Ainulindale?
Dec 29 11:20:55 <TAsn> raster, btw, is there any documentation about EDC files?
Dec 29 11:21:03 <TAsn> I couldn't find none.
Dec 29 11:22:08 <Ainulindale> quickdev: Eating, will be back later
Dec 29 11:22:22 <quickdev> Ainulindale, ok..ping me then please
Dec 29 11:25:13 <admiral0> raster still here?
Dec 29 11:33:10 <raster> admiral0:  in and out
Dec 29 11:33:14 <raster> cooking
Dec 29 11:33:14 <raster> btw
Dec 29 11:33:16 <raster> italian food rocks
Dec 29 11:33:35 <admiral0> :)
Dec 29 11:33:57 <bumbl> raster: ping
Dec 29 11:34:05 <raster> pong
Dec 29 11:34:20 <raster> TAsn:  hmmm checked the edje cookbook?
Dec 29 11:34:23 <raster> (google for it)
Dec 29 11:34:27 <raster> a bit old
Dec 29 11:34:29 <raster> but a good into
Dec 29 11:34:31 <raster> intro
Dec 29 11:35:23 <bumbl> raster: elementary won't compile
Dec 29 11:35:42 <bumbl> because test.edc (data/objects) fails an eina saftey check
Dec 29 11:35:56 <raster> hmmm
Dec 29 11:35:57 <raster> bugger
Dec 29 11:36:01 <raster> must be recent changes
Dec 29 11:36:15 <admiral0> raster: where is the screenlocker in the sourcecode?
Dec 29 11:37:25 <bumbl> yep I will provide logs in a minute - just cleaning the environment to reproduce it with an actual e (last e update was yesterday)
Dec 29 11:37:52 <raster> admiral0:  which one?
Dec 29 11:38:02 <raster> bumbl:  doing a rebuild myself now
Dec 29 11:38:22 <admiral0> raster: illume
Dec 29 11:38:33 <raster> there are 2
Dec 29 11:38:36 <raster> simplelock
Dec 29 11:38:41 <raster> and e's full desklock
Dec 29 11:38:45 <raster> simplelock is inside illume
Dec 29 11:40:35 <admiral0> simplelock... well it sucks
Dec 29 11:40:50 <raster> it is.. simple
Dec 29 11:40:53 <raster> :)
Dec 29 11:41:18 <admiral0> is there a way to kill it?
Dec 29 11:41:52 <admiral0> (i took source of zedlock and want to pimp it)
Dec 29 11:41:55 <raster> its not a process
Dec 29 11:42:09 <raster> its just a feature of illume
Dec 29 11:42:19 <bumbl> raster: is there something like the andoid screen lock planned (with self defined patterns for logging)?
Dec 29 11:42:22 <admiral0> s/kill/disable/
Dec 29 11:42:36 <raster> bumbl: patches accepted
Dec 29 11:42:42 <raster> i dont havew time to do everything
Dec 29 11:42:46 <raster> admiral0: dont use it
Dec 29 11:42:50 <raster> or instead exec your locker
Dec 29 11:42:57 <raster> as opposed to use the simpleloick action
Dec 29 11:43:09 <raster> (thats bound to the keybinding)
Dec 29 11:43:12 <raster> its configurable
Dec 29 11:44:45 <admiral0> where? in key bindings?
Dec 29 11:44:50 <raster> yes
Dec 29 11:44:58 <raster> only 2 bindings in the illume profile
Dec 29 11:45:01 <raster> not much to hunt
Dec 29 11:45:03 <raster> :)
Dec 29 11:45:10 <admiral0> deleted
Dec 29 11:45:12 <admiral0> :P
Dec 29 11:45:16 <admiral0> restarted
Dec 29 11:45:23 <Ainulindale> quickdev: ping
Dec 29 11:45:25 <admiral0> and then work on zedlock
Dec 29 11:48:06 <raster> u dont need a restart for bindings to take effect
Dec 29 11:48:08 <quickdev> Ainulindale, #Switch to LOCAL and modify SRC_URI_LOCAL to build from local sources // LOCATION_SHR = "REMOTE"
Dec 29 11:48:22 <quickdev> Ainulindale, what about setting a default value and changing that default value in the local.conf ?
Dec 29 11:48:50 <raster> btw
Dec 29 11:48:54 <Ainulindale> Why not, but do you really think this is a must do now, because if we don't do/have that, we won't be able to release?
Dec 29 11:48:55 <quickdev> If I want to commit something to shr-overlay, I always have to take care that I don't commit LOCAL
Dec 29 11:49:01 <raster> are you guys goint to continue building off openmoko
Dec 29 11:49:06 <raster> or move to angstrom?
Dec 29 11:49:21 <Ainulindale> raster: what do you mean by "off openmoko"?
Dec 29 11:50:11 <raster> shr is built off openmoko distro
Dec 29 11:50:30 <Ainulindale> In what sense?
Dec 29 11:50:58 <raster> the distro is based on the openmoko distro
Dec 29 11:51:00 <quickdev> Ainulindale, our build is based on openmoko, that's what he means
Dec 29 11:51:24 <Ainulindale> I get his meaning, I just don't get the point, I can't see what he considers as "based" on OM
Dec 29 11:51:37 <raster> whihc exists purely as a branding thing for openmoko and is well behind angstorm ( as best i know) for many things
Dec 29 11:51:53 <raster> openmoko vs angstrom
Dec 29 11:52:19 <openmoko> I'm better.
Dec 29 11:52:31 <bumbl> raster: http://dpaste.com/103324/
Dec 29 11:53:43 <bumbl> om
Dec 29 11:53:49 <bumbl> openmoko: you are?
Dec 29 11:53:57 <quickdev> raster, "well behind", in which sense?
Dec 29 11:54:06 <raster> quickdev:  glibc version for example
Dec 29 11:54:21 <raster> basically om as a distro was a fork of angstrom some time ago
Dec 29 11:54:25 <raster> and has gone on its own patrh
Dec 29 11:54:30 <raster> but that doesnt make any sense
Dec 29 11:54:36 <raster> when it should really just be an image
Dec 29 11:54:39 <raster> not a distro
Dec 29 11:54:48 <raster> hmm
Dec 29 11:54:51 <raster> elementary built for me
Dec 29 11:54:53 <Ainulindale> raster: my point is that I have no idea, at all whatsoever, of what the differences are
Dec 29 11:55:12 <admiral0> raster btw what glibc do you reccomend?
Dec 29 11:55:19 <raster> package sets and packlage versions
Dec 29 11:55:29 <raster> flavors of package manager
Dec 29 11:55:32 <raster> etc.
Dec 29 11:55:33 <Ainulindale> raster: That I could have guessed :-)
Dec 29 11:55:41 <Ainulindale> But my point was : relatively to our build process :-)
Dec 29 11:55:45 <raster> admiral0: well as i have found today - the glibc with om doesnt support omap3
Dec 29 11:55:49 <raster> whihc is kind of not happy
Dec 29 11:56:10 <raster> so as i'm checking... it seems om is a bit of a bsatard-child of ansgtrom
Dec 29 11:56:11 <admiral0> i tried to build 2.9 for telefoninux no luck yet
Dec 29 11:56:17 <raster> and should just come back to the fold
Dec 29 11:56:21 <raster> and not be a batsard child
Dec 29 11:56:27 <raster> follow angstrom head
Dec 29 11:56:34 <raster> and simply be an openmoko IMAGE
Dec 29 11:56:38 <raster> not a distro
Dec 29 11:56:58 <raster> and shr would just be a derivative image similar to openmoko image
Dec 29 11:57:02 <bumbl> raster: i gave you the log (which to me looks like it failed)
Dec 29 11:57:16 <Ainulindale> raster: Well, I just can't see what is the tie to OM (the distro) in our build process
Dec 29 11:57:34 <Ainulindale> Apart from DISTRO="openmoko"
Dec 29 11:57:35 <admiral0> Ainulindale: the base system is OM
Dec 29 11:57:51 <Ainulindale> And I don't know how that implies stuff.
Dec 29 11:58:00 <Ainulindale> That's what I'm telling.
Dec 29 11:58:21 <raster> bumbl: hmm no errors for me - built fine - no eina barfs
Dec 29 11:58:42 <bumbl> hmm
Dec 29 11:58:50 <bumbl> what could be the problem?
Dec 29 11:59:11 <raster> it implies your base packageset
Dec 29 11:59:23 <raster> base package versions of things - kernel, glibc, binutils, busybox, etc. etc. etc.
Dec 29 11:59:26 <raster> libpng
Dec 29 11:59:32 <bumbl> raster: http://dpaste.com/103324/ <- line 149
Dec 29 11:59:38 <raster> libjpeg
Dec 29 11:59:38 <raster> x etc.
Dec 29 11:59:44 * polz has just tried installing the latest experimental image from shr.bearstech.com ...
Dec 29 11:59:55 <polz> I hope I haven's just locked my SIM :/
Dec 29 12:00:16 <raster> yes i saw
Dec 29 12:00:19 <raster> i dont get that
Dec 29 12:00:42 <raster> oh wait
Dec 29 12:00:52 <raster> never mind
Dec 29 12:00:52 <raster> i do
Dec 29 12:01:03 <raster> but it doesnt fail the build
Dec 29 12:01:33 <raster> its a warning
Dec 29 12:02:25 <bumbl> hmm ok
Dec 29 12:09:28 <raster> should clean up warnings of course
Dec 29 12:09:36 <raster> but its not breakign anythign
Dec 29 12:25:25 * polz breathes a sigh of relief
Dec 29 12:25:33 <polz> the sim card hasn't been locked.
Dec 29 12:29:02 <quickdev> Ainulindale?
Dec 29 12:30:56 <mbuf> anyone have a successful mokomakefile build? mine fails at building qtopia-phone-x11; unrecognized command line option "-mmmx", "-m3dnow" et. al.
Dec 29 12:33:59 <Ainulindale> quickdev: yes?
Dec 29 12:34:01 <quickdev> hey nomeata 
Dec 29 12:34:09 <quickdev> nomeata, just committed some of your makefile improvements
Dec 29 12:34:28 <nomeata> quickdev: thx
Dec 29 12:34:38 <nomeata> I just ran openmoko-messages on Debian, but the screen was all white
Dec 29 12:34:41 <nomeata> didn’t debug it yet
Dec 29 12:34:44 <bumbl> and joerg: on 25C3?
Dec 29 12:35:15 <quickdev> nomeata, check for the /usr/share/libframeworkd-phonegui-efl/*.edc files?
Dec 29 12:35:15 <nomeata> I’m trying to find out how to raise the volume. If the hardware can’t be louder, I unfortunately have little use for the device.
Dec 29 12:35:52 <nomeata> ./usr/share/libframeworkd-phonegui-efl/messages.edj is present
Dec 29 12:35:54 <nomeata> but not *edc
Dec 29 12:35:59 <quickdev> Ainulindale, currently, we have 80ophonekitd (the X startfile) in the openembedded package. Let's move that to the ophonekitd directory? ( as nomeata said )
Dec 29 12:36:16 <quickdev> nomeata, .edj is fine
Dec 29 12:36:27 <nomeata> Ainulindale: and while you are at it: Please make that script a no-op if ophonekitd is not installed
Dec 29 12:36:39 <nomeata> Ainulindale: otherwise it breaks Debian systems that have the package removed, but not purged
Dec 29 12:37:31 <Ainulindale> quickdev: well please do this, I can't, I have personal stuff to do
Dec 29 12:37:41 <quickdev> Ainulindale, yeah, ok
Dec 29 12:38:03 <quickdev> nomeata, one question concerning the 80ophonekitd. Should that file have an install instruction in the makefile.am? 
Dec 29 12:38:10 <quickdev> or should it be just shipped?
Dec 29 12:38:17 <quickdev> latter one, right?
Dec 29 12:38:53 <nomeata> quickdev: well, for me you can just intall it where you need it
Dec 29 12:39:04 <nomeata> like the .desktop files
Dec 29 12:39:21 <nomeata> but either is fine
Dec 29 12:41:55 <nomeata> ah, AT+CLVL=230 is much better here
Dec 29 12:47:52 <nomeata> Is there a command line program to script AT command, e.g. for .xsession?
Dec 29 12:48:40 <quickdev> nomeata, maybe have a lock at mickeyterm
Dec 29 12:49:18 <quickdev> nomeata, Xsession script is now in ophonekitd/data/
Dec 29 12:49:21 <nomeata> quickdev: doesn’t seem to be easily scriptable. maybe with some sleep commands
Dec 29 12:49:24 <quickdev> thanks for the hint
Dec 29 12:49:26 <nomeata> quickdev: thx
Dec 29 12:55:32 <quickdev> nomeata, #define MESSAGE_FILE "/usr/share/libframeworkd-phonegui-efl/messages.edj" <- that file exists exactly in that location?
Dec 29 12:55:35 <quickdev> it's hardcoded
Dec 29 12:56:00 <nomeata> yes
Dec 29 12:56:16 * nomeata tries to run openmoko-messages on his desktop, but it segfaults
Dec 29 12:59:18 <quickdev> nomeata, could be, because frameworkd is not running properly. The next thing I'm going to do is a good error handler ;)
Dec 29 12:59:49 <yoyo> hi
Dec 29 13:00:05 <yoyo> elementary support hbox ?
Dec 29 13:00:06 <admiral0> quickdev
Dec 29 13:00:26 <admiral0> the phone suite needs a good error handler really
Dec 29 13:00:30 <quickdev> yeah
Dec 29 13:02:01 <admiral0> frameworkd needs error handling too
Dec 29 13:06:25 <nomeata> Failed to handle dbus error: type: <class 'framework.resource.ResourceNotEnabled'>
Dec 29 13:06:25 <nomeata> , 71 (dbus-glib-error-quark), code 32
Dec 29 13:06:37 <nomeata> so can’t test it on my desktop
Dec 29 13:06:57 <quickdev> ophonekitd must be running
Dec 29 13:07:27 <quickdev> but that will give errors in frameworkd, because you haven't got the phone hardware
Dec 29 13:09:25 <nomeata> ah, ok, ophonekitd was installed but not running. well, already purged the packages :-)
Dec 29 13:09:33 * nomeata tests again on the FreeRunner
Dec 29 13:13:14 <nomeata> hmm. I can run the dialer, but there is no dialer button :)
Dec 29 13:13:28 <nomeata> and if I open the phonebook, I can select an entry, but not confirm the choice
Dec 29 13:14:00 <quickdev> nomeata, but there are buttons?
Dec 29 13:14:16 <nomeata> quickdev: no, just a black bar that does not react
Dec 29 13:14:27 <quickdev> nomeata, could you make a screenshot please?
Dec 29 13:14:29 <nomeata> oh, and I can’t kill your apps with Ctrl-C, I have to use kill -KILL...
Dec 29 13:19:42 <nomeata> quickdev: http://www.joachim-breitner.de/public/dialer.png
Dec 29 13:20:10 <nomeata> quickdev: looks bad, doesn’t it :-)
Dec 29 13:21:18 <quickdev> nomeata, looks like something with elementary is seriously fucked up ;)
Dec 29 13:21:40 <quickdev> nomeata, elementary is already packaged?
Dec 29 13:21:50 <quickdev> nomeata, does the elementary test application work properly?
Dec 29 13:23:39 <nomeata> quickdev: not checked yet. the etk test works
Dec 29 13:24:03 <quickdev> elementary is needed even more :)
Dec 29 13:24:41 <nomeata> hmm. the test is not automatically installed. /me fires up qemu :-(
Dec 29 13:25:36 <opentrinity> hi...i want install SHR on my gta02 what kernel and rootfs i have to choose?
Dec 29 13:26:00 <admiral0> opentrinity i reccomend to you the latest shr unstable
Dec 29 13:27:00 <nomeata> hmm. elementary_test is black on my desktop as well
Dec 29 13:28:18 <nomeata> maybe some version skew. I don’t like e library hell :-)
Dec 29 13:32:38 <opentrinity> admiral0: coud u paste the url of files i have to download?
Dec 29 13:33:02 <opentrinity> admiral0: (last question)....what is modules packages?
Dec 29 13:34:26 <nomeata> quickdev: it seems I’m missing the elementary edj files. re-building..
Dec 29 13:34:37 <quickdev> nomeata, yeah :)
Dec 29 13:46:11 <opentrinity> anyone use bluetooth headset with SHR?
Dec 29 13:50:55 <nomeata> nice, it works now
Dec 29 13:51:11 <nomeata> I could place a call with openmoko-dialer
Dec 29 13:51:21 <nomeata> and I think then ophonekitd kicked in and showed the state
Dec 29 13:51:28 <nomeata> unfortunately, openmoko-dialer then crashed
Dec 29 13:51:37 <nomeata> *** ECORE ERROR: Ecore Magic Check Failed!!!
Dec 29 13:51:53 <quickdev> nomeata, export DISPLAY=:0.0
Dec 29 13:52:27 <quickdev> if you run openmoko-dialer from terminal and if it crashes instantly
Dec 29 13:52:41 <nomeata> not instantly
Dec 29 13:52:51 <nomeata> it exits after I press the dial button
Dec 29 13:52:55 <nomeata> or is that intentional? :-)
Dec 29 13:53:04 <quickdev> that is intended
Dec 29 13:53:13 <nomeata> ok :-)
Dec 29 13:53:19 <nomeata> but the ECORE ERRORS?
Dec 29 13:53:20 <quickdev> ophonekitd should kick in, yes
Dec 29 13:53:27 <quickdev> nomeata, ecore errors are not intended :)
Dec 29 13:53:39 <nomeata> I get them in openmoko-messages (which works nicely now as well), too
Dec 29 13:53:45 <quickdev> Ainulindale, here for a short question?
Dec 29 13:53:46 <nomeata> but they don’t seem to have any effect, so far
Dec 29 13:54:52 <Ainulindale> Gah
Dec 29 13:55:06 <Ainulindale> quickdev: You should write them down and ask all of them at the same time =)
Dec 29 13:55:31 <quickdev> Ainulindale, I'd like to let dialog popup, if there's not sim card present.
Dec 29 13:56:01 <quickdev> Ainulindale, we once talked about phonegui_dialog_show(). I can pass the text as an argument, right? 
Dec 29 13:56:09 <Ainulindale> No.
Dec 29 13:56:20 <quickdev> that's why I ask ;)
Dec 29 13:56:24 <Ainulindale> We talked about events as in constant events
Dec 29 13:56:53 <quickdev> that means?
Dec 29 13:57:18 <Ainulindale> Well that means that here, sim not present triggers a specific error on ophonekitd
Dec 29 13:57:30 <Ainulindale> You could just use it
Dec 29 13:57:36 <Ainulindale> Or think about a better way
Dec 29 13:57:47 <Ainulindale> I have no idea about what would be the best way
Dec 29 13:57:54 <quickdev> if I can use it, why did you say "no." ? ;)
Dec 29 13:58:06 <Ainulindale> quickdev: the error is a constant
Dec 29 13:58:07 <Ainulindale> not text
Dec 29 13:58:11 <quickdev> ah, yeah, ok
Dec 29 13:58:16 <quickdev> thought about constants
Dec 29 13:58:36 <quickdev> thanks...you can continue sleeping ;)
Dec 29 13:58:46 <Ainulindale> I don't sleep =)
Dec 29 13:59:09 <quickdev> not exhausted from the evening with ptitjes anymore?
Dec 29 13:59:17 <quickdev> hehe ;)
Dec 29 14:01:13 <Ainulindale> ah well
Dec 29 14:01:17 <Ainulindale> just received my GTA01
Dec 29 14:05:51 <bumbl> why do you need a gta01?
Dec 29 14:06:21 <Ainulindale> Because SHR is not just about the freerunner
Dec 29 14:06:41 <yoyo> :)
Dec 29 14:06:46 <PBeck> Ainulindale: where you have got a gta01?
Dec 29 14:08:05 <Gnutoo> Ainulindale, hello at what point are the wesnoth patches?
Dec 29 14:08:14 <bumbl> Ainulindale: yeah I know but there are not that many differences between gta01 and 02 (except glamo and wlan)
Dec 29 14:08:52 <Ainulindale> Gnutoo: Didn't follow them. 
Dec 29 14:08:58 <Ainulindale> And I'm off again, have to do some personal things.
Dec 29 14:09:31 <Gnutoo> Ainulindale, but you are the owner of the bug #207
Dec 29 14:09:53 <nomeata> hmm. sending an SMS seems not to work right now
Dec 29 14:10:04 <nomeata> but no error messages...
Dec 29 14:10:08 <Ainulindale> Gnutoo: I'm the defautl owner of every bug.
Dec 29 14:10:16 <Gnutoo> Ainulindale, ah ok lol
Dec 29 14:10:22 <PBeck> Ainulindale: bad job ^^
Dec 29 14:10:45 <Gnutoo> Ainulindale, so whom should I talk to to get theses patch included?
Dec 29 14:12:50 <admiral0> i'm back
Dec 29 14:14:23 <bumbl> quickdev: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/f6247334cdd794c5cbad182840f86e04.png <- is this the way to go for your apps?
Dec 29 14:14:35 <Mortak> hi all
Dec 29 14:14:51 <admiral0> bumbl nice
Dec 29 14:15:02 <bumbl> admiral0: ?
Dec 29 14:15:18 <PBeck> bumbl: he like it ^^
Dec 29 14:15:20 <admiral0> the screenshot
Dec 29 14:15:25 <bumbl> not by me
Dec 29 14:15:36 <bumbl> it's on scap and I want to complain
Dec 29 14:15:37 <nomeata> quickdev: where is the icon for openmoko-dialer? I can’t find it in the source
Dec 29 14:15:39 <bumbl> too many colours
Dec 29 14:18:47 <MarcOChapeau> Hell world
Dec 29 14:18:54 <MarcOChapeau> s/Hell/Hello/
Dec 29 14:18:54 <bzzbot> MarcOChapeau meant: Hello world
Dec 29 14:18:57 <MarcOChapeau> lol
Dec 29 14:19:17 <bumbl> hi MarcOChapeau 
Dec 29 14:19:24 <Ainulindale> bumbl: that's from dolf
Dec 29 14:20:30 <MarcOChapeau> anyone knows how some builtin python modules are stripped from the package ? it seems the cProfile module is not present in the python package from the shr repos
Dec 29 14:20:50 <MarcOChapeau> and I can't see anything in the bb file
Dec 29 14:25:52 <nomeata> quickdev: oh, and please don’t use exit in the Xsession script, this script is sourced, so aborts the starting for the X server
Dec 29 14:25:59 <Mortak> sleeping over it doesnt work :) still have the "]ERROR: Could not inherit file classes/distutils.bbclass while parsing" error while "bitbake -c clean python-etk; bitbake eina; bitbake python-etk" any ideas/suggestions? :)
Dec 29 14:26:52 <MarcOChapeau> ach... found my answer. the profiler needs to be explicitly enabled :p
Dec 29 14:27:11 <Ainulindale> raster: ping
Dec 29 14:27:19 <raster> pong
Dec 29 14:27:28 <Ainulindale> raster: about this angstrom/om thing
Dec 29 14:27:32 <opentrinity> anyone use BT headset in SHR?
Dec 29 14:27:47 <Ainulindale> What would you mind, if you were to do that migration?
Dec 29 14:28:03 <raster> i have no idea whats involved yet
Dec 29 14:28:15 <raster> but i intend to move illume-image to be angstrom based
Dec 29 14:28:21 <raster> so i'll know after that
Dec 29 14:28:32 <raster> that may cause issues for shr in future tho
Dec 29 14:28:33 <Ainulindale> raster: well, I'm currently trying just with the simple DISTRO change, just to test
Dec 29 14:28:36 <raster> thus why i brought it up
Dec 29 14:28:47 <raster> that was going to be my first port of call
Dec 29 14:29:09 <raster> as best i know xora should be working on angstrom for om now too
Dec 29 14:29:09 <raster> so i think om is "seeing the light" too
Dec 29 14:29:20 <Ainulindale> xora? xorg?
Dec 29 14:29:31 <Hire> yes
Dec 29 14:29:33 <Ainulindale> Ah, no, someone 
Dec 29 14:29:36 <Ainulindale> Misread
Dec 29 14:29:39 <Hire> it is working on xorg 7.4
Dec 29 14:29:49 <Hire> and a driver xorg-based for glamo
Dec 29 14:29:53 <raster> gareme
Dec 29 14:29:54 <raster> err
Dec 29 14:29:58 <Hire> yes, him
Dec 29 14:29:58 <raster> graeme
Dec 29 14:30:00 <Hire> greame
Dec 29 14:30:11 <Hire> ( sometime raster fails :o )
Dec 29 14:32:28 <Ainulindale> mrmoku?
Dec 29 14:33:11 <raster> aye
Dec 29 14:33:13 <raster> sometimes i do
Dec 29 14:35:00 <quickdev> nomeata, I just copied the Xsession script
Dec 29 14:35:16 <quickdev> so I should remove exit?
Dec 29 14:35:20 <bumbl> raster: theoretical question: is it possible to include a python module into e settings?
Dec 29 14:35:58 <quickdev> bumbl, good that you ask that.....let's ask raster what he thinks about a second settings app
Dec 29 14:36:41 <DocScrutinizer2> hi raster
Dec 29 14:36:49 <raster> bumbl: yes.
Dec 29 14:37:11 <raster> bumbl: e's settings app has supported external settings tools before exposure existed
Dec 29 14:37:20 <raster> if the /desktop has System and Settings in the categories
Dec 29 14:37:29 <raster> e will put it in the system tab of the settings tool
Dec 29 14:37:50 <raster> its already intended to have multiple apps plug into it
Dec 29 14:37:57 <raster> DocScrutinizer2:  yo yo
Dec 29 14:38:17 <bumbl> the background: I am arguing that settings belong to settings and therfore the shr-settings (which are at the moment rewritten using pyelementary) belong into the e settings dialog
Dec 29 14:39:31 <bumbl> raster: so if the .desktop file has e.g. Phone and Settings in the categories, e-settings will create a new category named Phone?
Dec 29 14:40:54 <nomeata> quickdev: yes, please remove exit
Dec 29 14:41:13 <raster> noSystem and Settings
Dec 29 14:41:16 <raster> nothgni else
Dec 29 14:41:31 <raster> there is a System tab for all these apps
Dec 29 14:41:39 <bumbl> so it is currently not possible to add a new category?
Dec 29 14:41:45 <raster> if u use e on ubuntu u'll see all the ubuntu system config tools listed there
Dec 29 14:41:48 <raster> click and the tool gets run
Dec 29 14:41:55 <raster> simple
Dec 29 14:44:07 <bumbl> but anyway, this makes it easy to maintain a two way solution (one with a dedicated settings app and one plugged into the e settings)
Dec 29 14:44:14 <quickdev> nomeata, done
Dec 29 14:44:18 <raster> not with external apps - no
Dec 29 14:44:24 <raster> but code would be written to do that
Dec 29 14:44:37 <nomeata> quickdev: thx
Dec 29 15:02:23 <quickdev> mrmoku, here?
Dec 29 15:08:33 <mrmoku> quickdev, Ainulindale almost here
Dec 29 15:13:50 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, quickdev: ok, here now... whats up?
Dec 29 15:28:34 <Ainulindale> Sorry mrmoku, was baking bread then had a phone call
Dec 29 15:30:57 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: np, don't let it burn ;)
Dec 29 15:38:55 <Dave> står til
Dec 29 15:45:59 <opentrinity> hi, omview gives me error... Invalid filename given : Epsilon ...ecc
Dec 29 15:46:10 <opentrinity> is a bug?
Dec 29 15:57:49 <Dave> alphaones
Dec 29 16:04:38 <opentrinity> omview gives me Failed to connect to server :-/
Dec 29 16:16:33 <Hire>  why ainulindale is always on cooking something? 
Dec 29 16:17:02 <mrmoku> Hire: not true... not always
Dec 29 16:17:09 <mrmoku> sometimes he's also eating ;)
Dec 29 16:19:04 <Mortak> im hungry, but i cant leave my compile tasks alone!!
Dec 29 16:19:33 <Mortak> they have feelings too!
Dec 29 16:19:50 <mrmoku> Mortak: go and it something... your compile task will fail with or without you staring at it :P
Dec 29 16:19:57 <mrmoku> s/it/eat/
Dec 29 16:19:57 <bzzbot> mrmoku meant: Mortak: go and eat something... your compile task will fail with or without you staring at it :P
Dec 29 16:20:38 <Mortak> NOOO!! I CAAANT!!
Dec 29 16:29:14 <Dave> :D
Dec 29 16:31:52 <MarcOChapeau> hehehe, I am now able to generate profiling ouput from frameworkd's execution
Dec 29 16:32:22 <MarcOChapeau> mickey|away: here's the script. might be of interest to you... http://rafb.net/p/tEI7tE79.html
Dec 29 16:43:49 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: don't leave it in for too long... otherwise it will get hard like a stone
Dec 29 16:43:58 <mrmoku> (talking about your bred... not what Hire might think ;)
Dec 29 16:44:22 <mrmoku> +a
Dec 29 16:44:26 <Mortak> btw. i finally managed to turn on my oven :)
Dec 29 16:45:01 <mrmoku> Mortak: good as a first step... If appetite comes back you're cured :-)
Dec 29 16:45:34 <Mortak> :))
Dec 29 16:46:51 <Dave> :]
Dec 29 16:46:58 <Dave> Hungry Hungry Germans
Dec 29 16:47:21 <jonkristian> s/Germans/Hippo
Dec 29 16:47:28 <Mortak> maybe i eat poland.. muharrharrharr!!!eleven!!
Dec 29 16:47:34 <Mortak> ok, not funny :)
Dec 29 16:47:51 <Dave> D:
Dec 29 16:47:53 <Dave> scary
Dec 29 16:47:57 <Mortak> ;)
Dec 29 16:48:03 <Dave> Please don't eat us :)
Dec 29 16:48:54 <bumbl> nah Dave you are nomally either too fat or too thin
Dec 29 16:48:54 <Dave> jonkristian ;p
Dec 29 16:49:04 <Dave> bumble :x
Dec 29 16:49:09 <Mortak> my todo say, there are rolls first, usa is on the bottom
Dec 29 16:49:35 <Dave> Your not so speaka english good? :p
Dec 29 16:49:41 <jonkristian> tootsie-rolls?
Dec 29 16:49:51 <jonkristian> Dave: amygaaawd
Dec 29 16:50:04 <Dave> trolls!?
Dec 29 16:50:09 * jonkristian hides
Dec 29 16:50:24 <Mortak> small bread thingys :) , normally my english ist besser ;)
Dec 29 16:50:28 <Mortak> hrhr
Dec 29 16:50:31 <Mortak> nvm
Dec 29 16:50:40 <jonkristian> Mortak: Germanium?
Dec 29 16:50:48 <Mortak> ;)
Dec 29 16:50:59 <mwester> Isn't that a flower that smells like cat urine?
Dec 29 16:51:19 <Mortak> .o0( hmmm... cat urine ... )
Dec 29 16:51:21 <jonkristian> so ur a brittle gray crystalline element that is a semiconducting metalloid ?
Dec 29 16:51:28 <Dave> o_O
Dec 29 16:52:10 <jonkristian> phew
Dec 29 16:52:15 <bumbl> mwester: germanium is a chemical element if I remeber correctly
Dec 29 16:52:19 <Dave> iedereen bent dwaze
Dec 29 16:52:46 <jonkristian> Mr. Dr. Dave what's on the schedule for today?
Dec 29 16:53:19 <jonkristian> bumbl: absatively
Dec 29 16:54:45 <bumbl> well I should first read everything and then hit enter
Dec 29 16:54:52 <Dave> :P
Dec 29 16:55:03 <Mortak> me too
Dec 29 16:55:32 <jonkristian> Boring
Dec 29 16:55:40 <Dave> Yes
Dec 29 16:55:59 <jonkristian> Mo
Dec 29 16:56:26 <jonkristian> s/Mo/Moo
Dec 29 16:56:46 <bumbl> don't forget the last /
Dec 29 16:56:52 <bumbl> bzzbot needs some work
Dec 29 16:57:05 <bumbl> s/bzzbot/the stupid bot/
Dec 29 16:57:06 <bzzbot> bumbl meant: the stupid bot needs some work
Dec 29 16:57:34 <Dave> bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
Dec 29 16:57:41 <jonkristian> !
Dec 29 16:57:43 * Dave electrically shorts bzzbot's brain
Dec 29 16:57:47 <Dave> :D
Dec 29 16:58:06 <jonkristian> I smell fried eggs
Dec 29 16:59:47 <Dave> must be Zorkman :P
Dec 29 16:59:57 <jonkristian> Indeed
Dec 29 17:00:03 <Dave> hahaha
Dec 29 17:01:37 <jonkristian> Internal joke?
Dec 29 17:01:51 <Dave> ja
Dec 29 17:02:11 <jonkristian> ja, ok
Dec 29 17:02:15 <jonkristian> greit
Dec 29 17:02:39 <Dave> :]
Dec 29 17:04:46 <jonkristian> QOD: Out of all the times i've almost fainted because i would get up too fast, i wonder why i didn't?
Dec 29 17:04:51 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: FYI
Dec 29 17:05:02 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: yeah?
Dec 29 17:05:03 <Ainulindale> I'm currently building shr-lite with DISTRO="angstrom-2008.1"
Dec 29 17:05:06 <Ainulindale> To tesT.
Dec 29 17:05:19 <Ainulindale> And to give some credit to raster for once :-)
Dec 29 17:05:41 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: and my bread's dough looks fine so far
Dec 29 17:05:55 <Ainulindale> Will tell you at 19h30-20h when it's ready if it's good
Dec 29 17:06:01 * mwester is rather skeptical if that DISTRO will be useful.
Dec 29 17:06:05 <Ainulindale> (Bread with basil and some other stuff)
Dec 29 17:06:10 <mrmoku> ok, will change the Makefile then...
Dec 29 17:06:15 <Ainulindale> mwester: so do I, that's why I'm testing
Dec 29 17:06:16 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: no, no
Dec 29 17:06:19 <Ainulindale> Let me test.
Dec 29 17:06:24 <Ainulindale> mwester: and by the way
Dec 29 17:06:28 <Ainulindale> I now have a GTA01
Dec 29 17:06:37 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: ment at 20h, wenn you told me all is fine :-)
Dec 29 17:06:49 <Ainulindale> And we should seriously talk about kernel stuff
Dec 29 17:06:54 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I was talking about the bread
Dec 29 17:07:14 <mrmoku> hehe, ok then... just tell me also how the DISTRO thing went :-)
Dec 29 17:07:25 <Ainulindale> mwester: in fact IMHO the sane revisions are behind but not that much
Dec 29 17:07:31 <Ainulindale> I had a look at the openmoko.conf file
Dec 29 17:08:08 <Ainulindale> But it includes specific revisions
Dec 29 17:08:18 <Ainulindale> Which are, I fear, a bit old
Dec 29 17:08:44 <Ainulindale> I'll put up the images online for those who'll want to have a go
Dec 29 17:09:09 <Ainulindale> I'd truly like to be able to ship a staging directory for people, these days
Dec 29 17:09:22 <Ainulindale> I.e. the core tools, first 200 tasks or so
Dec 29 17:09:25 <Ainulindale> gcc, glibc, and such
Dec 29 17:09:42 <bumbl> angstrom compatability would have the advantage that one could use the angstrom repo without breaking everything
Dec 29 17:09:43 <Ainulindale> Gentoo does that and it's very nice, even if it's not necessarily up to date.
Dec 29 17:09:49 <Ainulindale> bumbl: indeed
Dec 29 17:10:05 <Ainulindale> But will break the OM compatibility :-)
Dec 29 17:10:11 <Ainulindale> Though I don't care about that
Dec 29 17:10:19 <mwester> I don't think the angstrom repo is up to 2008 yet; isn't is still based on the 2007 stable angstrom release, which IIRC is what openmoko is also based from...
Dec 29 17:10:39 <Ainulindale> mwester: Well according to raster there were several changes
Dec 29 17:10:43 <mwester> I though angstrom 2008.1 was still very much "a work in progress".
Dec 29 17:10:44 <Ainulindale> I'm intending to test them.
Dec 29 17:10:58 <mwester> Yes, well, that's what one gets for listening to raster ;) :P
Dec 29 17:11:10 <Ainulindale> One thing I agree raster with, though
Dec 29 17:11:14 <Ainulindale> Is that it's dumb to maintain two distros
Dec 29 17:11:35 <mwester> So why are we creating our own based on an unreleased angstrom then?
Dec 29 17:11:49 <Ainulindale> Own distro?
Dec 29 17:12:33 <Ainulindale> If you were talking about own distro, please mind the fact that SHR isn't currently a "distro" as is
Dec 29 17:12:39 <Ainulindale> It's not structured as a distro
Dec 29 17:12:43 <Ainulindale> It's mainly an image
Dec 29 17:13:02 <Ainulindale> One could arguably say it's a distro
Dec 29 17:13:06 * mwester can hear it now:  SHR team: "We found a bug in frameworkd!"   FSO team: "Bull**** you are not running the same OS/libc/python; use the FSO or openmoko distro and test again!"
Dec 29 17:13:06 <Ainulindale> But it's not, as is
Dec 29 17:13:28 <Ainulindale> mwester: well, it's not like that :-)
Dec 29 17:13:50 <Ainulindale> I'd rather doubt the FSO team will tell me that
Dec 29 17:13:53 <mwester> And then the users.
Dec 29 17:13:59 <Ainulindale> Though it's ture that this alphaone guy is a bit sly
Dec 29 17:14:03 <Ainulindale> s/ture/true/
Dec 29 17:14:04 <bzzbot> Ainulindale meant: Though it's true that this alphaone guy is a bit sly
Dec 29 17:14:11 <mwester> "Why does the SHR distro differ from everything else on the wiki?"
Dec 29 17:14:21 <Ainulindale> mwester: well
Dec 29 17:14:22 <Ainulindale> Again
Dec 29 17:14:24 * mwester thinks it is a very bad idea.
Dec 29 17:14:28 * mwester will say no more about it.
Dec 29 17:14:29 <Ainulindale> If it gives me the opportunity to deliver a stabler thing
Dec 29 17:14:31 <Ainulindale> I'll consider it
Dec 29 17:14:34 <Ainulindale> I'm just testing for now :-)
Dec 29 17:14:41 <Ainulindale> I think it's worth testing :-)
Dec 29 17:14:55 * mwester goes back to work :)
Dec 29 17:15:16 <Ainulindale> mwester: don't be the elderly council judging my actions will you :-p
Dec 29 17:15:24 <Ainulindale> mwester: you know my opinion and you know we agree :-)
Dec 29 17:15:37 <nomeata> openmoko-contacts is just a wrapper for ophonekitd again, right?
Dec 29 17:15:45 <Ainulindale> nomeata: no
Dec 29 17:15:51 <mwester> I'm not "elderly council" -- that's ascribing far too much wisdom to me!  I am a "grumpy old man". :P
Dec 29 17:15:53 <nomeata> anything you can do with it that you can’t do via openmoko-dialer?
Dec 29 17:16:12 * mwester wants some fresh bread, though.
Dec 29 17:16:24 <Ainulindale> nomeata: technically, the need for ophonekitd is assimilable to the need of the GSM resource
Dec 29 17:16:27 <Ainulindale> no more no less
Dec 29 17:16:42 <Ainulindale> So if the GSM resource is requested
Dec 29 17:16:47 <Ainulindale> And if you open the dialer
Dec 29 17:16:48 <Ainulindale> It'll work
Dec 29 17:16:56 <Ainulindale> Though nothing will listen for call status
Dec 29 17:17:03 <Ainulindale> So let's say you launch zhone
Dec 29 17:17:13 <Ainulindale> And you try to place a call with openmoko-dialer3
Dec 29 17:17:17 <Ainulindale> zhone will pick up the call
Dec 29 17:17:29 <Ainulindale> nomeata: Is that precise enough?
Dec 29 17:17:56 <Ainulindale> nomeata: There's no strict dependency between openmoko-.*3 stuff and ophonekitd, as in distro dependency
Dec 29 17:18:01 <Ainulindale> but a dependency should be in the code
Dec 29 17:18:05 <Ainulindale> It's just not there yet
Dec 29 17:18:11 <Ainulindale> (that's the subject of a ticket)
Dec 29 17:18:16 <Ainulindale> (fail gracefully, etc.)
Dec 29 17:18:52 <nomeata> ok, thanks
Dec 29 17:19:22 <Ainulindale> Please bug me if you have question I'll be more than happy to answer 
Dec 29 17:19:30 <Ainulindale> Even though I think porting that on debian is a waste of time
Dec 29 17:19:39 <Ainulindale> (But that's mainly just because I think that debian IS a waste of time :-p)
Dec 29 17:20:53 <bumbl> mhmm that's why I love christmas - I always get these delicious selfmade cheese balls from my aunt
Dec 29 17:21:36 <Ainulindale> This last remark is so, well, so peculiar and could be the subject of so many taunts that I'll go away for now :-)
Dec 29 17:21:42 <bumbl> Ainulindale: what distribution do you use on the desctop?
Dec 29 17:21:53 <Ainulindale> Else I'll feel obliged to joke on you bumbl
Dec 29 17:21:54 <Ainulindale> (Gentoo)
Dec 29 17:22:16 <bumbl> a another gentoo user
Dec 29 17:22:45 <Hire> shame on you
Dec 29 17:22:46 <Hire> gentoo user
Dec 29 17:23:02 <Hire> however quickdev uses ubuntu 
Dec 29 17:23:42 <Hire> this makes ME a bit puzzled
Dec 29 17:24:16 <bumbl> well let him use ubuntu if he likes
Dec 29 17:24:26 <Hire> no
Dec 29 17:24:34 <Hire> we need to whips him
Dec 29 17:24:46 * mwester thinks Ainulindale has demonstrated the necessary good judgement to qualify to run Fedora on his desktop, though.
Dec 29 17:24:54 <Hire> oh
Dec 29 17:24:59 <Hire> and i am a debian user
Dec 29 17:25:05 <Hire> yes I use that shit
Dec 29 17:25:09 <mwester> I guessed that.
Dec 29 17:26:12 <Ainulindale> Well mwester 
Dec 29 17:26:16 <Hire> debian is a shit?
Dec 29 17:26:19 <Ainulindale> I learned to love gentoo when I had no mean to heat my flat
Dec 29 17:26:55 <mwester> hehe!  Now OE builds can do that.
Dec 29 17:28:15 * mrmoku thinks Fedora rules ;-)
Dec 29 17:30:02 <bumbl> mrmoku: where is the elementary.bb?
Dec 29 17:30:11 <bumbl> is it already in openembedded?
Dec 29 17:30:54 <mrmoku> hehe, good question... maybe in angstrom ;)
Dec 29 17:36:55 <thomasg> Ainulindale: hi. I was told you'd know why the elementary_svn.bb is in some 3rd party repository and not in OE upstream?
Dec 29 17:43:11 <ptitjes> helooo everybodyy
Dec 29 17:43:56 <bumbl> Ainulindale: well yes gentoo + pentium 4 = flat always warm
Dec 29 17:45:24 <Dave> meow?
Dec 29 17:56:12 <soltys> bumbl: gentoo + any cpu = always warm in flat/room ;)
Dec 29 17:56:31 <admiral0> lol
Dec 29 17:56:49 <admiral0> any distro plus openembedded even warmer
Dec 29 17:57:26 <soltys> ;)
Dec 29 17:58:09 <bumbl> admiral0: nah
Dec 29 17:58:45 <bumbl> openembedded can't compete with kde-svn, zen-sources, mplayer-svn,...
Dec 29 17:59:39 <admiral0> i do openembedded + kde-svn
Dec 29 17:59:48 <admiral0> i need a warm house
Dec 29 18:00:41 <bumbl> admiral0: haha
Dec 29 18:01:31 <admiral0> openembedded assures continuity though
Dec 29 18:03:00 <Dave> Admiral Moko?
Dec 29 18:03:22 <admiral0> very moko indeed
Dec 29 18:03:47 <Dave> :]
Dec 29 18:53:03 <jonkristian> pffft, ubuntu, kubununnununtutununtu, Cool people use slackware or arch;)
Dec 29 18:57:04 <bumbl> jonkristian: they do?
Dec 29 19:00:26 <jonkristian> bumbl: only one way to find out;)
Dec 29 19:02:07 <bumbl> haven't tried slack yet but arch linux is - well - they have the right ideas but they lack core developers
Dec 29 19:19:36 <TAsn> bumbl, I use arch, I don't feel they lack anything. they just rock.
Dec 29 19:19:50 <TAsn> it's gentoo for people with less free time to compile ;]
Dec 29 19:20:05 <DieMumiee> :)
Dec 29 19:20:13 <DieMumiee> i use arch on my colinux box.. 
Dec 29 19:21:42 <TAsn> DieMumiee, and you like it? ;]
Dec 29 19:22:53 <TAsn> I deleted my windows partition many years back, I have nothing I want to do that I can't with linux and can with windows, So I switched.
Dec 29 19:23:42 <TAsn> I can actually do a lot more with linux.
Dec 29 19:24:06 <DieMumiee> yes i like the simplicity
Dec 29 19:24:14 <dolf1074> TAsn: I have something that I can't do on linux: adobe premiere :)
Dec 29 19:24:27 <DieMumiee> for some reasons it was simpler to jump in, than apt..
Dec 29 19:24:35 <PaulFertser_> TAsn: lucky you :) And what will you do when you want to view a P-CAD schematics? 
Dec 29 19:25:08 <TAsn> PaulFertser_, I don't need to review p-cads ;]
Dec 29 19:25:11 * mwester finds jobs easier to come by if one keeps up one's proficiency with non-Linux systems.
Dec 29 19:25:14 <TAsn> DieMumiee, yeah, that's a bummer.
Dec 29 19:25:34 <TAsn> oops
Dec 29 19:25:37 <TAsn> I mean dolf1074 
Dec 29 19:26:08 <TAsn> mwester, probably, but this doesn't mean you have to use it.
Dec 29 19:26:17 <dolf1074> but for all the rest: linux!!
Dec 29 19:26:25 <TAsn> dolf1074, ! ;]
Dec 29 19:26:52 <soltys> ;)
Dec 29 19:27:24 <PaulFertser_> TAsn: actually i don't have windows at home for like 4 years.
Dec 29 19:28:28 <TAsn> you see? ;]
Dec 29 19:29:24 <DieMumiee> mwester: true. when it comes to earning money I dont care about the os. 
Dec 29 19:29:28 <quickdev> dolf1074, interested in developing libframeworkd-phonegui-efl with me?
Dec 29 19:29:39 <DieMumiee> I recently started developing for wince
Dec 29 19:29:53 <dolf1074> quickdev: yes, I'm busy to adapt the theme :)
Dec 29 19:30:02 <quickdev> dolf1074, which theme? :)
Dec 29 19:30:16 <dolf1074> http://alasal.be/openmoko/shr2/contacts/r5/contactlist_selected_r5.jpg
Dec 29 19:30:32 <bumbl> dolf1074: too many colours
Dec 29 19:30:54 <quickdev> dolf1074, are you modifying C code or the elementary theme? ;)
Dec 29 19:31:34 <bumbl> TAsn: well you might be right on that thing
Dec 29 19:31:36 <dolf1074> I'm modifying edje files and made a etk-theme. Now I'm modifiying c code
Dec 29 19:32:27 <TAsn> bumbl, about what?
Dec 29 19:32:38 <dolf1074> I'm busy with seperating contact-edit-view into the edit and new part
Dec 29 19:32:51 <dolf1074> That's because the layout of the two looks different
Dec 29 19:33:15 <quickdev> dolf1074, you should create two views then
Dec 29 19:33:23 <quickdev> but wait
Dec 29 19:33:32 <quickdev> if only the look is different....you don't have to touch C at all?
Dec 29 19:33:51 <quickdev> dolf1074, let's talk if there are big changes, ok? :)
Dec 29 19:34:15 <dolf1074> I have changed some c code, because now i'm using edje callbacks instead of the callbacks of the buttons
Dec 29 19:34:43 <dolf1074> but for the contact-list-view nothing else is changed
Dec 29 19:34:59 <quickdev> dolf1074, why not button callbacks? :)
Dec 29 19:35:16 <dolf1074> because they arent buttons, but images in the edje file
Dec 29 19:35:32 <dolf1074> (and because that's only 1 line to make a edje callback :p)
Dec 29 19:36:08 <quickdev> there aren't buttons, but images in the edje file? Could you explain that a bit?
Dec 29 19:36:28 <dolf1074> the back button is represented by a IMAGE part
Dec 29 19:36:49 <dolf1074> not a swallow part, where you swallow a button from the elementary framework
Dec 29 19:37:31 <bumbl> 20:19 < TAsn> it's gentoo for people with less free time to compile ;]
Dec 29 19:37:42 <TAsn> oh :)
Dec 29 19:38:34 <quickdev> dolf1074, that way you have to insert that image everywhere where there's a back button
Dec 29 19:38:48 <bumbl> but actually i usually compile while doing different stuff
Dec 29 19:39:02 <dolf1074> quickdev: http://alasal.be/openmoko/shr2/ if you install those libs, you will have an unfinished example of what I already did
Dec 29 19:39:12 <dolf1074> quickdev: yeah
Dec 29 19:40:47 <quickdev> dolf1074, in the long term, I think it's better to implement that back button thing a layer above.....for example a back button elementary widget.....which has a certain image
Dec 29 19:41:27 <dolf1074> Can be, but I'm not experienced with e and elementary and so on
Dec 29 19:42:10 <dolf1074> It's finally going the right direction with my knowledge about edje, so therefor I implemented it in edje
Dec 29 19:42:45 <quickdev> dolf1074, will try your current work this night I think :)
Dec 29 19:43:25 <ptitjes> dolf1074: any progress with phonegui theming ?
Dec 29 19:43:53 <dolf1074> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/f6247334cdd794c5cbad182840f86e04.png
Dec 29 19:44:11 <dolf1074> quickdev: and maybe we can abstract various parts. Because in my ideas, we have a tab-bar a middle part and a action bar at the bottom
Dec 29 19:44:35 <quickdev> dolf1074, yes, right...we have a kind of "toolbar"
Dec 29 19:44:51 <dolf1074> yes
Dec 29 19:44:52 <quickdev> and we need to abstract things through widgets, right..
Dec 29 19:45:11 <dolf1074> yes,
Dec 29 19:45:16 <quickdev> dolf1074, I think raster committed a "toolbar" widget, but I'm not certain. Will check if there are new things..
Dec 29 19:45:27 <dolf1074> but we don't need to abstract those, just for abstracting it ;)
Dec 29 19:45:59 <dolf1074> I don't like the toolbar widget, because it isn't implemented. It's like a separate library
Dec 29 19:46:18 <dolf1074> for example, It lacks edje implementation 
Dec 29 19:46:34 <quickdev> so there arleady is a toolbar widget?
Dec 29 19:46:37 <dolf1074> and I like the edje idea for separating the look and the code
Dec 29 19:47:03 <quickdev> if raster implemented that widget....things are seperated ;)
Dec 29 19:47:33 <dolf1074> okay, I only looked at some example code of raster. (and it looked lots of c code ;) )
Dec 29 19:47:40 <bumbl> quickdev: yes there is a toolbar widget
Dec 29 19:47:51 <bumbl> it looks like the e settings toolbar
Dec 29 19:48:51 <ptitjes> dolf1074: that's a very nice start! keep on going!
Dec 29 19:49:24 <dolf1074> ptitjes: the contactlist is also done, but I'm not posting that for privacy reasons ;)
Dec 29 19:52:10 <dolf1074> quickdev: I made a new etk theme and placed it into the shr-theme. Is that good, or should it be located elsewhere?
Dec 29 19:53:25 <dolf1074> That etk-theme is needed for making lists with alpha backgrounds. I also plan to change the scrollbar appearances. So I will put that all there
Dec 29 19:53:35 <quickdev> dolf1074, it should be an independent package. For example etk-theme-shr
Dec 29 19:53:48 <dolf1074> quickdev: ok
Dec 29 19:53:49 <quickdev> dolf1074, scrollbar is quite hard I think :)
Dec 29 19:54:01 <dolf1074> quickdev: It are just images
Dec 29 19:54:08 <dolf1074> nothing hard ;)
Dec 29 19:54:21 <quickdev> hehe..try it
Dec 29 19:54:29 <quickdev> dolf1074, etk-theme-shr is fine I think
Dec 29 19:54:59 <dolf1074> okay
Dec 29 19:55:50 <quickdev> dolf1074, have you access to shr-themes.git? Create a subdirectory called etk-theme-shr there :)
Dec 29 19:56:09 <dolf1074> I have no acces (not that I know)
Dec 29 19:59:20 <quickdev> dolf1074, just saw that there's a package called shr-theme in shr.git containing our icons
Dec 29 19:59:34 <quickdev> that icon package should be called icon-theme-shr and also be moved to shr-theme.git
Dec 29 19:59:43 <quickdev> and shr.git should be called shr-apps.git
Dec 29 19:59:46 <quickdev> Ainulindale, here?
Dec 29 20:00:54 <dolf1074> quickdev: probably, else shr-theme.git will remain empty :p
Dec 29 20:01:05 <quickdev> yeah..hehe
Dec 29 20:13:26 <ptitjes> dolf1074: eager to have this on my phone!!
Dec 29 20:14:43 <dolf1074> ptitjes: me to. But I will have it before you :p
Dec 29 20:15:04 <dolf1074> (with all the developing happiness ;)  )
Dec 29 20:16:49 <dolf1074> quickdev: etk-theme-shr is almost done on this side of the line. Can you tell me how to get to the other side?
Dec 29 20:17:52 <quickdev> dolf1074, you mean how to make it upstream?
Dec 29 20:18:06 <dolf1074> yeah, something like that
Dec 29 20:18:20 <dolf1074> It sounds more cooler if you say it like I did
Dec 29 20:18:27 <quickdev> dolf1074, we need Ainulindale  - he has to give you git permissions
Dec 29 20:19:04 * Hire invokes Ainulindale
Dec 29 20:20:00 <quickdev> dolf1074, have you already created a recipe for it?
Dec 29 20:20:06 <dolf1074> yes
Dec 29 20:20:33 <dolf1074> and I'm now trying if the package doesn't kill a standard shr_unstable install :)
Dec 29 20:21:14 <dolf1074> (not likely, but you never know)
Dec 29 20:23:29 <dolf1074> quickdev: I think this is everything you need: http://alasal.be/openmoko/shr2/etk-theme-shr.zip
Dec 29 20:23:39 <quickdev> dolf1074, there's a question left....should etk-theme-shr overwrite the current theme? I think not..
Dec 29 20:23:52 <dolf1074> It make a new theme
Dec 29 20:24:12 <dolf1074> and I add one line of code in phonegui-init.c so it takes that theme
Dec 29 20:24:54 <dolf1074> So it will be a phonegui-efl only theme
Dec 29 20:25:03 <quickdev> dolf1074, it shouldn't be a phonegui-efl only theme
Dec 29 20:25:10 <quickdev> it should be an ETK theme
Dec 29 20:25:16 <quickdev> you agree?
Dec 29 20:25:21 <quickdev> I found an example in openembedded
Dec 29 20:25:24 <dolf1074> okay, but it is designed for phonegui-efl
Dec 29 20:25:25 <quickdev> http://git.openembedded.net/?p=openembedded.git;a=blob;f=packages/openmoko-projects/etk-theme-ninja_svn.bb;h=870e09b3bd9153d219b8c417dca6b61f97a8ef9d;hb=e23444f80a0698a45e63f32c82ddfe929b5d928e
Dec 29 20:25:41 <quickdev> yeah, but let's keep it abstract
Dec 29 20:25:49 <dolf1074> ofcourse
Dec 29 20:25:59 <quickdev> dolf1074, look at that recipe...update-alternatives is the way to go :)
Dec 29 20:28:26 <quickdev> raster, here?
Dec 29 20:29:32 <quickdev> dolf1074, just tried: update-alternatives: Error: not linking //usr/share/etk/themes/default.edj to /usr/share/ninja/default.edj since //usr/share/etk/themes/default.edj exists and is not a link
Dec 29 20:29:50 <quickdev> nomeata, here?
Dec 29 20:30:00 <nomeata> quickdev: yes
Dec 29 20:30:01 <dolf1074> quickdev: you changed the recipe?
Dec 29 20:30:11 <quickdev> dolf1074, just tried the etk-theme-ninja recipe
Dec 29 20:30:21 <dolf1074> ah okay
Dec 29 20:30:46 <dolf1074> I will try to adapt the etk-theme-shr like the ninja theme and look if it still does everything
Dec 29 20:30:47 <quickdev> nomeata, I guess you have experience with packaging. If there's a theme file in /usr/share/etk/themes/default.edj provided by package etk - how should our etk-theme-shr be installed?
Dec 29 20:31:16 <nomeata> hmm. I’d say, maybe /usr/share/etk/themes/shr.ed
Dec 29 20:31:27 <nomeata> assuming there will be only one shr theme at a time
Dec 29 20:31:48 <quickdev> yeah ok - then we have to find out how to switch themes
Dec 29 20:32:11 <nomeata> yes, that needs to be possible of course
Dec 29 20:32:37 <dolf1074> a file with the path to the edj file that has to be used?
Dec 29 20:32:45 <nomeata> theoretically, one could divert the default file, but what if there are other etk programs installed?
Dec 29 20:33:18 <dolf1074> I think the packages should explicitly choose for using the adapted theme
Dec 29 20:33:18 <nomeata> quickdev: also: Is this a “general usable” etk theme, or is it very tied to libframeworkd-phonegui?
Dec 29 20:33:38 <nomeata> quickdev: In the latter case, maybe /usr/share/libframeworkd-phonegui-etk/ would be more suitable
Dec 29 20:33:39 <dolf1074> It is not tied, but it will let other things look ugly when used
Dec 29 20:34:01 <quickdev> nomeata, libframeworkd-phonegui-etk has nothing to do with it :)
Dec 29 20:34:04 <nomeata> ugly as in, someone could extend it to look nice, or ugly by design
Dec 29 20:34:13 <nomeata> quickdev: ...or whatever package taht is?
Dec 29 20:34:17 <nomeata> *that is.
Dec 29 20:34:25 <quickdev> nomeata, /usr/share/etk/
Dec 29 20:34:34 <quickdev> dolf1074, which pieces are tied to libframeworkd-phonegui-efl?
Dec 29 20:34:46 <dolf1074> ugly by different and not optimized for use in the top bar
Dec 29 20:35:10 <quickdev> for use in the top bar?!
Dec 29 20:35:22 <nomeata> From a user point of view, something in /usr/share/themes/ should be a general purpose theme, any theme that I would never want to select in my .etkrc (or such) should be somewhere else
Dec 29 20:35:44 <dolf1074> quickdev: no ties, Now It just deleted the background of a etk_tree list
Dec 29 20:35:54 <quickdev> dolf1074, no ties? then it's general purpose theme
Dec 29 20:36:09 <BluesLee> quickdev: when will shr settings be available?
Dec 29 20:36:18 <quickdev> BluesLee, don't know
Dec 29 20:36:33 <MarcOChapeau> quickdev: is there a way to turn a etk theme into a gtk theme easily, or do we need to write a whole gtk-engine ?
Dec 29 20:37:28 <quickdev> MarcOChapeau, etk (EDJE) is more themable than gtk. The question is: Do we want to adjust gtk to etk or etk to gtk? ;)
Dec 29 20:37:44 <thomasg> you can try the enhance lib, it can convert glades xml files from gtk to etk
Dec 29 20:39:08 <dolf1074> quickdev: the problem for making it a general theme. The etk-shr-theme a selected row has the color white. In phonegui-efl apps that's no problem, because the background is gray. But if the theme is used generally (so the topshelf also uses this theme), you will not see if something is selected. (because all the apps has a white background, so white on white)
Dec 29 20:40:07 <quickdev> dolf1074, simply set the etk text color to black on a white background?
Dec 29 20:40:11 <MarcOChapeau> quickdev: well, I guess the aim is to have apps that all have the same looks :)
Dec 29 20:40:48 <MarcOChapeau> tangogps is a bit disappointing
Dec 29 20:40:49 <quickdev> MarcOChapeau, yes - therefore we need general purpose themes
Dec 29 20:41:00 <MarcOChapeau> yup
Dec 29 20:41:28 <dolf1074> quickdev: it handles about the selected row. A selected row has a diffrent color (now Yellow, in my theme White), so you will not be able to see a selected row on a white background 
Dec 29 20:41:33 <quickdev> but for now, we only need that etk theme for libframeworkd-phonegui-efl
Dec 29 20:41:40 <dolf1074> yes
Dec 29 20:42:33 <dolf1074> mabye later we can push it and make it a general theme
Dec 29 20:43:34 <quickdev> dolf1074, currently the default.edj is copied into the image from the shr-overlay
Dec 29 20:44:31 <dolf1074> okay and we will make a phoneguiEFL.edj for the libframeworkd-phonegui-efl, okay?
Dec 29 20:44:52 <quickdev> dolf1074, libframeworkd-phonegui-efl already has *.edj files?
Dec 29 20:45:01 <quickdev> but nothing is themed in libframeworkd-phonegui-efl
Dec 29 20:45:10 <quickdev> that lib is themed by elementary and etk
Dec 29 20:45:48 <dolf1074> yes, and now I themed the etk part and put it into a new package. And I have themed libframeworkd-phonegui-efl
Dec 29 20:45:56 <dolf1074> for all not etk parts
Dec 29 20:46:59 <quickdev> dolf1074, libframeworkd-phonegui-efl should not contain any theme-related things, because elementary should be themed. Otherwise all other elementary apps can not use that theme-related changes
Dec 29 20:47:43 <dolf1074> okay, but I don't know how to theme elementary (will look into that)
Dec 29 20:48:48 <quickdev> dolf1074, please do not commit that libframeworkd-phonegui-efl theme-related things. Implement those things in a theme called elementary-theme-shr :)
Dec 29 20:49:02 <quickdev> then we have all things correct and scalable :)
Dec 29 20:49:08 <quickdev> dolf1074, agree? :)
Dec 29 20:49:10 <dolf1074> agree
Dec 29 20:49:42 <dolf1074> and that's another package for the shr-theme.git :p
Dec 29 20:50:10 <quickdev> exactly ;)
Dec 29 20:50:28 <dolf1074> btw. this bb works: http://pastebin.com/m6c982c07
Dec 29 20:51:29 <quickdev> dolf1074, have you tested it? How does it switch to the new theme? update-alternatives does not work afaik - we should ask raster about how to change etk / elementary themes
Dec 29 20:51:54 <dolf1074> it doesn't change it automaticly yet
Dec 29 20:52:08 <dolf1074> but I think it is some constant you have to change on the e site
Dec 29 20:52:16 <dolf1074> *side
Dec 29 20:52:42 <quickdev> yeah..we need to find out that...if it's possible
Dec 29 20:54:09 <quickdev> <CodeWarrior> etk_prefs might help you out.
Dec 29 20:54:09 <quickdev> <CodeWarrior> if not, just ln -s for the time being (
Dec 29 20:54:09 <quickdev> <CodeWarrior> (=
Dec 29 20:55:25 <dolf1074> http://www0.get-e.org/Themes/Toolkits/ETK/
Dec 29 20:55:42 <dolf1074> <To use one of these themes, simply copy the theme to ~/.e/etk/themes and use the etk_prefs program to select it.>
Dec 29 20:56:50 <quickdev> dolf1074, copying to /usr/share/etk/themes/ is ok, too
Dec 29 20:57:32 <quickdev> dolf1074, it should be enabled in the SHR image recipe: http://shr.bearstech.com/git/?p=shr-overlay.git;a=blob;f=openembedded/packages/images/shr-image.inc;h=57854e6b6044ab2f436157118a5530a2e6cb99b9;hb=HEAD
Dec 29 20:57:53 <quickdev> dolf1074, it CAN NOT be enabled in the theme recipe, because a theme shouldn't enable itself...you agree?
Dec 29 20:58:04 <dolf1074> yes
Dec 29 20:58:20 <quickdev> ok..I think we have all pieces together now :)
Dec 29 20:58:29 <dolf1074> yup
Dec 29 20:58:51 <quickdev> I'm looking forward to have a fine theme on my phone :)
Dec 29 20:59:27 <dolf1074> me to, but there will also be need for structural changes to libframeworkd-phonegui-elf
Dec 29 20:59:29 <quickdev> dolf1074, we should call the theme packages not simply shr.....but maybe etk-theme-shr-black - or etk-theme-shr-white for example
Dec 29 20:59:37 <quickdev> that way shr might have several themes in future
Dec 29 20:59:45 <dolf1074> quickdev: okay
Dec 29 21:00:00 <quickdev> dolf1074, structural, - that means?
Dec 29 21:00:21 <dolf1074> But about the changes, 'seeing all the contacts' and 'make new contact' are like two tabs for me
Dec 29 21:00:41 <dolf1074> http://alasal.be/openmoko/shr2/contacts/r5/contactlist_r5.jpg
Dec 29 21:01:13 <dolf1074> Now the 'new' button make a new windown, but in my theme they are tabs
Dec 29 21:01:25 <dolf1074> so there may not be a new 'window'
Dec 29 21:03:11 <quickdev> dolf1074, I disagree there...but let me catch some food first :)
Dec 29 21:03:18 <dolf1074> ok
Dec 29 21:03:26 <dolf1074> bb for the fight ;)
Dec 29 21:04:53 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: how was your bread?
Dec 29 21:06:27 <mwester> hopefully it was not dwarf bread that he baked.
Dec 29 21:07:07 * mrmoku wonders what happend if Ainulindale ate dwarf bread...
Dec 29 21:09:38 <BluesLee> dolf1074: nice
Dec 29 21:10:58 <BluesLee> dolf1074: i dont remember that app icons are shown in the topshelf ...
Dec 29 21:11:41 <dolf1074> you saw the mockup ;)
Dec 29 21:11:58 <dolf1074> apparently not everything will be realised
Dec 29 21:12:22 <BluesLee> i see
Dec 29 21:12:26 <BluesLee> r2 is also nice
Dec 29 21:12:36 <dolf1074> (but off course if we bug raster enough, maybe he will make it happen :) )
Dec 29 21:13:18 <dolf1074> BluesLee: that was before the toolbar idea
Dec 29 21:13:34 <bumbl> Ainulindale: enough social interaction for today - you are needed by this chan :p
Dec 29 21:13:59 <bumbl> dos1: ping
Dec 29 21:16:24 <dos1> bumbl: pong
Dec 29 21:20:56 <jonkristian> |         * |
Dec 29 21:21:10 <bumbl> dos1: qry?
Dec 29 21:21:43 <dos1> bumbl: wht?
Dec 29 21:21:52 <dos1> what*
Dec 29 21:25:28 <dolf1074> quickdev: Is this part https://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/etk/src/tools/ also inserted in libetk0 ?
Dec 29 21:25:44 <bumbl> dos1: qry = query
Dec 29 21:26:21 <dos1> bumbl: i don't know what you mean :(
Dec 29 21:26:25 <quickdev> dolf1074, for that, you should have a look at etk's recipe in openembedded
Dec 29 21:26:58 <bumbl> query = private conversation window - one should have popped up in your irc client
Dec 29 21:27:11 <bumbl> i have to talk to you about the settings app
Dec 29 21:27:20 <bumbl> but don't want to flood the chan
Dec 29 21:27:29 <bumbl> s/flood/spam/
Dec 29 21:27:29 <bzzbot> bumbl meant: but don't want to spam the chan
Dec 29 21:27:44 <dos1> bumbl: ok
Dec 29 21:34:24 <Hire> where is ainulindale=
Dec 29 21:38:54 <mwester> He baked dwarf bread, and injured himself, perhaps. :(
Dec 29 21:49:31 <sicu> heh .. major split
Dec 29 21:50:06 <sicu> mwester: dwarf bread has an appatizing cling to it =]
Dec 29 21:52:45 <dolf1074> oh no, they split the world
Dec 29 21:53:14 <sicu> there's nothing like a deadly throwing toast for breakfast and some close-combat crumpets for afternoon tea
Dec 29 21:53:23 <mwester> They must have run a test on the hadron again...
Dec 29 21:53:24 <TAsn> I think they are trying to start a war
Dec 29 21:53:30 <TAsn> splitting the eu from the us
Dec 29 21:54:01 <TAsn> ;]
Dec 29 21:54:23 <bumbl> haha
Dec 29 21:54:29 <bumbl> but :(
Dec 29 21:54:33 <bumbl> there is already war
Dec 29 21:54:44 <mwester> Normal state of being for humans.
Dec 29 21:56:17 <bumbl> TAsn: any news from the front
Dec 29 21:57:06 <bumbl> I heard Israel is calling up the reservists
Dec 29 21:57:41 <TAsn> not quite but yeah.
Dec 29 21:58:24 <TAsn> iirc the command that went down is that recruiting the reservists is allowed but isn't a must.
Dec 29 21:58:42 <TAsn> i.e commanders can recruit his reservists but he doesn't have to.
Dec 29 21:58:45 <TAsn> *they
Dec 29 21:58:49 <TAsn> do not
Dec 29 21:59:05 <TAsn> s/bad grammar/good grammar/
Dec 29 21:59:05 <bumbl> ah ok
Dec 29 21:59:05 <TAsn> ;]
Dec 29 21:59:16 <bumbl> hehe
Dec 29 21:59:41 <TAsn> anyhow, that's what I've heard.
Dec 29 21:59:52 <TAsn> though they launched rockets further in the rear
Dec 29 22:00:04 <TAsn> they hit Ashdod today.
Dec 29 22:00:15 <TAsn> which is by no means in the frontline.
Dec 29 22:00:22 <TAsn> I don't think anyone expected that.
Dec 29 22:00:27 <TAsn> ;\
Dec 29 22:32:40 <quickdev> raster, some minutes for me?
Dec 29 22:33:24 * raster hides
Dec 29 22:34:14 <Dave> RASTER
Dec 29 22:34:24 * raster hides further
Dec 29 22:34:26 <Dave> You have no chance to survive make your compliance!
Dec 29 22:34:58 * raster hands over all his base
Dec 29 22:37:22 <dolf1074> quickdev: I call the 2 packages 'etk-theme-shr-brave' and 'elm-theme-shr-brave', okay?
Dec 29 22:37:47 * raster awaits the questions
Dec 29 22:38:28 <quickdev> dolf1074, I'd name it default instead of brave - but let's ask some other guys concerning that
Dec 29 22:38:54 <Dave> raster, what's for dinner?
Dec 29 22:38:56 <quickdev> raster, if we make an elm-theme-shr package, how do we enable that theme?
Dec 29 22:38:58 <dolf1074> quickdev: I though my theme could have a name :(
Dec 29 22:39:31 <raster> quickdev: right now there is no way to do sny theme but the default
Dec 29 22:39:48 <Dave> bleh
Dec 29 22:40:00 <raster> i havent put in any theme handling at all beyond a this api layer that only uses a single fixed file
Dec 29 22:40:23 <Dave> which sucks
Dec 29 22:40:30 * Dave hides
Dec 29 22:41:02 <dolf1074> quickdev: What we can do is the following: cp default.edj normalDefault.edj && ln phoneguiEFL.edj default.edj :) :p
Dec 29 22:42:24 <raster> Dave:  no. it's called "software that isnt complete"
Dec 29 22:42:33 <raster> basically theme changing right now is not an "important thing"
Dec 29 22:42:38 <raster> on my list of.. things to do
Dec 29 22:42:45 <raster> :)
Dec 29 22:42:58 <raster> i dont even have an alternate theme to switch to
Dec 29 22:43:09 <raster> i was going to add overlays as well
Dec 29 22:43:10 <quickdev> raster, you don't but dolf1074 has :)
Dec 29 22:43:36 <dolf1074> yup, and almost we have a etk and elm theme
Dec 29 22:43:47 <quickdev> raster, overlays means, that you have a root file and can override certain things?
Dec 29 22:44:10 <dolf1074> the differences between the default and our theme hasn't many changed, but it's a start
Dec 29 22:44:17 <raster> well e does themes as a single overlay over "default"
Dec 29 22:44:28 <quickdev> yeah
Dec 29 22:44:31 <raster> ie check the user set theme (for the given element class)
Dec 29 22:44:40 <raster> if the thing doesnt exist there - fall back to default
Dec 29 22:44:59 <raster> what i SHOULD have is a stack of theme sets
Dec 29 22:45:08 <raster> ie a list like:
Dec 29 22:45:15 <raster> 0: default
Dec 29 22:45:36 <raster> 1: mytheme , myextra-items
Dec 29 22:45:36 <raster> 2: customtheme
Dec 29 22:45:36 <raster> etc.
Dec 29 22:45:46 <raster> so each element in the stack can be a list of theme files
Dec 29 22:45:50 <quickdev> yeah, would be cute
Dec 29 22:45:56 <raster> u can "extend" your dataset by adding more .edj files
Dec 29 22:45:59 <raster> like a fontset
Dec 29 22:46:16 <quickdev> raster, we order that!
Dec 29 22:46:20 <raster> and then multiple levels
Dec 29 22:46:37 <raster> i know that this linearises to a single stack in realisty
Dec 29 22:46:44 <dolf1074> Raster: edje_cc: Error. <stdin>:3661 token PASSWORD not one of: NONE PLAIN EDITABLE PASSOWRD
Dec 29 22:46:46 <dolf1074> ??
Dec 29 22:46:46 <raster> so i'm overcomplicating it by having a stack of lists
Dec 29 22:46:58 <raster> but.. i think it'd be nice to be able to remove an entire stack line
Dec 29 22:47:08 <raster> DieMumiee: edje out of date
Dec 29 22:47:17 <raster> err dolf1074 edje out of date
Dec 29 22:47:20 <raster> :)
Dec 29 22:47:33 <dolf1074> how update edje?
Dec 29 22:47:34 <quickdev> PASSOWRD <- typo? :)
Dec 29 22:47:51 <dolf1074> quickdev: yes, in the edje compiler :o
Dec 29 22:47:52 * mwester noticed that too
Dec 29 22:47:57 <raster> yes
Dec 29 22:48:10 <raster> it was a typo
Dec 29 22:48:10 <raster> it was fixed
Dec 29 22:48:13 <raster> quite a while ago now
Dec 29 22:48:16 <raster> :)
Dec 29 22:48:27 <mwester> See, now if you used MS Word for your text editor, stuff like that wouldn't happen ;) 
Dec 29 22:48:37 <dolf1074> booo
Dec 29 22:48:39 <bumbl> haha
Dec 29 22:48:40 <raster> :-P~
Dec 29 22:48:43 <Hire> i prefer nano
Dec 29 22:49:05 * bumbl prefers kde which has auto spellchecking
Dec 29 22:49:10 * bumbl ducks and runs
Dec 29 22:49:24 <raster> which is utterly useless when coding
Dec 29 22:49:33 <raster> as 90+% of your stuff will not be "words"
Dec 29 22:50:00 <bumbl> well it "works"
Dec 29 22:50:10 <bumbl> anyway: I am writing this using e17
Dec 29 22:50:17 <Hire> nooooo
Dec 29 22:50:18 <bumbl> i use both kde and e17
Dec 29 22:50:21 <Hire> really?
Dec 29 22:50:44 <raster> he has been.. corrupted
Dec 29 22:50:47 <raster> MUHAHAHAHAHA
Dec 29 22:50:59 <Hire> with a cookie?
Dec 29 22:51:40 <Dave> o_O
Dec 29 22:51:48 <bumbl> gah Hire 
Dec 29 22:51:52 <Dave> :P
Dec 29 22:51:57 * bumbl sends Hire a virtual beer
Dec 29 22:52:00 <bumbl> cheers
Dec 29 22:52:15 <Dave> silly Italians
Dec 29 22:52:17 <Hire> i love you, dude 
Dec 29 22:52:20 <quickdev> raster, one thing I want to harass you with....could you fix that dictionary thing? :)
Dec 29 22:52:51 <raster> the speed?
Dec 29 22:53:09 <dolf1074> quickdev: do you also find it annoying and you can't help noticing you send less messages?
Dec 29 22:54:26 <quickdev> raster, it isn't really that important :)
Dec 29 22:54:34 <quickdev> dolf1074, yeah ;)
Dec 29 22:55:05 <raster> florian is working on it
Dec 29 22:55:10 <raster> or said he was
Dec 29 22:55:10 <quickdev> great :)
Dec 29 22:55:13 <raster> so not touching it
Dec 29 22:55:30 <raster> not until i give up that he'll fix it
Dec 29 22:55:35 <raster> :)
Dec 29 22:55:40 <quickdev> raster, any progress on a list / keypad widget?
Dec 29 22:55:52 <quickdev> yeah..let him try his luck :)
Dec 29 22:55:59 <raster> (as his patch made it slow - i'm happy to let him tackle the slowness he created :))
Dec 29 22:56:06 <raster> none
Dec 29 22:56:10 <raster> need to do inwin
Dec 29 22:56:17 <raster> but after that i will need list
Dec 29 22:56:20 <quickdev> inwin?
Dec 29 22:56:32 <raster> window inside a window
Dec 29 22:56:43 <raster> basically like some popup box inside your window
Dec 29 22:56:57 <raster> centered to hold stuff like a "are you sure?" dialog
Dec 29 22:57:06 <raster> or a "select one of these"
Dec 29 22:57:08 <raster> etyvc.
Dec 29 22:57:16 <raster> as such i need it for a "select one of these or enter a number"
Dec 29 22:57:40 <quickdev> yeah, we need that, too :)
Dec 29 22:58:00 <raster> but the list comes after the thing i put the list into works
Dec 29 22:58:03 <raster> :)
Dec 29 22:58:16 <raster> i just do the widgets pretty much in the order i need them
Dec 29 22:58:25 <quickdev> yeah...I'm fine with that
Dec 29 23:02:26 <bumbl> raster: so you are doing the sms app at the moment?
Dec 29 23:04:49 <raster> yes
Dec 29 23:05:21 <quickdev> it's a pity that we're doing things twice ;)
Dec 29 23:05:30 <bumbl> yep
Dec 29 23:05:35 <quickdev> although we may have slightly different aims
Dec 29 23:05:48 <Dave> raster, how are your windows?
Dec 29 23:06:39 <bumbl> well raster needs a demo app for swisscom; anyway Dave how long will we have the luck that they pay you (ever project has an end of life)
Dec 29 23:06:40 <raster> quickdev: last i checked your app was a mixe of edje, etk and elementary
Dec 29 23:06:44 <raster> i'm doing pure elm
Dec 29 23:06:51 <raster> its meant to be a demo app on using elm
Dec 29 23:06:57 <raster> as well as testing it and driving development
Dec 29 23:07:01 <quickdev> raster, as soon as you have a list widget, I'm doing pure elementary, too
Dec 29 23:07:18 <quickdev> except for the layout (edje), because it's more flexible than pure elementary
Dec 29 23:07:29 <raster> so as such our goals are very different
Dec 29 23:07:46 <raster> also my app at least works and displays messages without any extra daemons ans stuff on my desktop
Dec 29 23:08:53 <raster> currently i also am not into the "store all my messages and get them via dbus"
Dec 29 23:09:00 <raster> same for contacts
Dec 29 23:09:00 <bumbl> Ainu|Fallback: what has happened? has the bread come to life?
Dec 29 23:09:12 <raster> i personally think that's crossed the line into "not via dbus" land
Dec 29 23:09:46 <quickdev> raster, anyway, you need a central place / api for contacts / messages
Dec 29 23:10:03 <raster> do you?
Dec 29 23:10:17 <raster> well ok
Dec 29 23:10:18 <quickdev> yeah, there are certain usecases for it
Dec 29 23:10:20 <raster> sorry
Dec 29 23:10:27 <raster> i was thinking dbus
Dec 29 23:10:29 <raster> um yes - you need a place
Dec 29 23:10:40 <raster> i personally think this si the point where u put it on the FS
Dec 29 23:10:46 <raster> ie files
Dec 29 23:10:49 <raster> not dbus
Dec 29 23:10:55 <quickdev> back to the roots, hehe
Dec 29 23:11:15 <quickdev> what about concurrency, locks, and so on?
Dec 29 23:11:17 <raster> thats just my opinion
Dec 29 23:11:42 <raster> same as with dbus
Dec 29 23:11:54 <raster> if u have multipel clients modifying the data
Dec 29 23:12:11 <quickdev> not the same - on dbus you can introduce another layer, which handles that stuff - on the file level it's not possible, is it?
Dec 29 23:12:13 <raster> (which frankly is incredibly unlikely to happen at the same time)
Dec 29 23:12:29 <raster> you put the locking into the dbus daemon
Dec 29 23:12:31 <quickdev> it's not incredible unlikely
Dec 29 23:12:36 <raster> and make clients block/wait for responses
Dec 29 23:12:51 <raster> or u implement shared locks on the dbus protocol
Dec 29 23:13:12 <raster> and locking on the file level is perfectly possible
Dec 29 23:13:25 <raster> it was being done on unix long before anyone ever heard of the word "dbus"
Dec 29 23:13:31 <raster> decades before
Dec 29 23:13:31 <raster> :)
Dec 29 23:13:39 <Dave> more raceconditions milord?
Dec 29 23:14:00 <raster> man 2 flock
Dec 29 23:14:09 <dolf1074> it's not because it existed long before dbus, it is beter than dbus
Dec 29 23:14:14 <quickdev> raster, what about encryption?
Dec 29 23:14:43 <quickdev> you are going to need another layer
Dec 29 23:14:53 <raster> let the fs implement that
Dec 29 23:15:17 <bumbl> encryption + freerunner = fail
Dec 29 23:15:23 <Dave> failrunner
Dec 29 23:15:49 <raster> but even then i see encryption as a painful thing
Dec 29 23:15:56 <raster> ok - so now the data is encrypted
Dec 29 23:16:01 <raster> i still can get to it via dbus
Dec 29 23:16:11 <raster> unless now you put complicated authentication into the dbus protocol
Dec 29 23:16:20 <raster> and that means apps need to store auth tokens/keys
Dec 29 23:16:26 <raster> and so can still access
Dec 29 23:16:30 <mwester> complicated!
Dec 29 23:16:31 <raster> or i have to enter passwords all the time
Dec 29 23:16:34 <raster> or pin numbers as a user
Dec 29 23:16:43 <raster> and that just becomes so incredibly annoying
Dec 29 23:16:55 <raster> that it becomes a pointless feature everyone will avoid like the plague
Dec 29 23:17:19 <raster> encrypt the fs if you really want secure personal data
Dec 29 23:17:29 <raster> (well ecrypt ~/ - or certain dirs in ~/)
Dec 29 23:17:32 <mwester> Now *that* is a very practical solution.
Dec 29 23:17:46 <raster> rely on just some form of screenlock to limit access if u must
Dec 29 23:18:07 <raster> and so on boot it goes right into being locked - ping # is also the auth key for decrypting
Dec 29 23:18:18 <raster> err pin #
Dec 29 23:18:28 <raster> and thus ~/ is mounted for the first time with the key
Dec 29 23:18:35 <raster> pin # after that just grants gui access
Dec 29 23:18:51 <raster> if someoen steals your phone they will need the pin to get past the lock
Dec 29 23:18:58 <raster> so they may try a reboot and dump flash from uboot
Dec 29 23:19:03 <raster> whihc woill ned up with encrypted blobs
Dec 29 23:19:08 <raster> so.. encryption done
Dec 29 23:19:20 <raster> and no userspace apps need special protocols etc.
Dec 29 23:19:28 <raster> or key storage and so on
Dec 29 23:19:31 <quickdev> raster, what about consistency? if you say message A belongs to contact B, contact B gets deleted, but message A still exists?
Dec 29 23:19:31 <bumbl> raster: well they will dump the flash
Dec 29 23:19:39 <bumbl> and bruteforce it on the desktop
Dec 29 23:19:40 <raster> only thing involved is the initial first lock/pin entry
Dec 29 23:19:53 <bumbl> 4 numbers are easily hacked
Dec 29 23:20:00 <raster> bumbl:  yes. and the data is sotred in encrypted loopback mounted blobs
Dec 29 23:20:01 <mwester> An encrypted loopback mount of a big "blob" will suffice - and elminates the need for any special partitioning.
Dec 29 23:20:02 <raster> :)
Dec 29 23:20:10 <raster> bumbl: thats the users problem
Dec 29 23:20:17 <raster> they can use a 20 digit pin
Dec 29 23:20:35 <raster> its up to them to trade off inconvenience
Dec 29 23:20:40 <raster> vs nutty security
Dec 29 23:20:41 <bumbl> can they? my nokia tells me 4 to 8 numbers
Dec 29 23:20:45 <quickdev> raster, what about consistency?
Dec 29 23:20:58 <mwester> For those who want more security, longer pins, or if you want, put a key on a usb device that needs to be plugged into the phone's usb port to unlock access to that filesystem.
Dec 29 23:21:11 <raster> bumbl: your nokia limits you
Dec 29 23:21:17 <raster> thats an artificial limit
Dec 29 23:21:31 <raster> no reason a key cant be as long a strign as you like
Dec 29 23:21:52 <raster> quickdev: qhy should a message belong to a contact?
Dec 29 23:22:00 <raster> i guess this is a matter of your view of how the data should work
Dec 29 23:22:04 <raster> nothnig of usb vs filesystem
Dec 29 23:22:11 <mwester> Someone suggested a stroke-based solution to entering a key for decryption -- just divide the screen up into portions, and one can quickly "scribble" or "draw" the decryption key of fairly reasonable lenght.
Dec 29 23:22:23 <raster> i dont see how a message or contact being deleted should affect the other
Dec 29 23:22:32 <raster> of coiurse when i view my messages and i deleted the contact entry
Dec 29 23:22:36 <raster> i wont get a name or photo
Dec 29 23:22:42 <raster> it'll be just a raw number
Dec 29 23:23:15 <raster> mwester: could be interesting - though it'd be very liable to errors
Dec 29 23:23:33 <raster> well depends how many areas
Dec 29 23:24:24 <quickdev> raster, you will probably eventually need references between the data, which gives that consistency problem
Dec 29 23:24:44 <Fossi1> you could also repeat the key input
Dec 29 23:24:50 <Fossi1> but i aso like the usb key idea
Dec 29 23:28:26 <raster> quickdev: well the way i do it references are searched for on the fly
Dec 29 23:30:03 <quickdev> yeah...I'll have a look at your code soon :)
Dec 29 23:30:45 <raster> basically messages u get are stored as-is
Dec 29 23:30:52 <raster> ie a header (to/from a phone #)
Dec 29 23:31:00 <raster> and a body
Dec 29 23:31:07 <raster> (well mms and attachments can be done eventually)
Dec 29 23:31:24 <raster> and its the to/from # that is looked up in contacts
Dec 29 23:32:25 <quickdev> raster, how to validate for example contact informations?
Dec 29 23:32:56 <raster> validate?
Dec 29 23:33:15 <quickdev> check, if a birthdate of a contact is really a date and not a string
Dec 29 23:33:32 <quickdev> if there are applications that do not handle input properly
Dec 29 23:33:45 <quickdev> those apps should not destroy any sensitive data or the access to it
Dec 29 23:34:15 <raster> why would you allow a string to be entered?
Dec 29 23:34:26 <raster> why should it be a string even
Dec 29 23:34:48 <raster> it likely should be a timestamp
Dec 29 23:34:52 <raster> :)
Dec 29 23:35:14 <quickdev> those files can be accessed by other applications...and those applications might not filter input as good as your app is doing it
Dec 29 23:35:31 <raster> though as such - rfc 2425
Dec 29 23:35:35 <raster> covers it
Dec 29 23:36:05 <raster> implement a libvcf
Dec 29 23:36:10 <raster> or a libmsg
Dec 29 23:36:11 <raster> etc.
Dec 29 23:36:16 <raster> put it in a lib
Dec 29 23:36:46 <quickdev> there you have your additional layer :)
Dec 29 23:36:57 <raster> you dont need it if u dont want
Dec 29 23:36:59 <raster> access the files
Dec 29 23:37:09 <raster> but its not the layer
Dec 29 23:37:13 <raster> its the dbus and ipc
Dec 29 23:37:32 <raster> ie the fact that anything i want to do to the data involves 1 process thats always there and needs to run and consume stuff
Dec 29 23:37:43 <raster> and i need to context switch a lot
Dec 29 23:37:54 <quickdev> yeah, that's a point
Dec 29 23:38:12 <raster> of course u can start putting lots of searching/filtering in the daemon
Dec 29 23:38:25 <raster> ie "list all contacts that contain "gus" in the first name"
Dec 29 23:38:35 <raster> and al the other possible listing/filtering u may want
Dec 29 23:38:39 <raster> either that or u make it simple
Dec 29 23:38:51 <raster> and now force apps to fetch 1 contact at a time - check if they want that one or not
Dec 29 23:38:56 <raster> then throw it out if they dont
Dec 29 23:39:13 <raster> (eg list all contacts starting with "a" or most recently accessed contacts)
Dec 29 23:39:14 <raster> etc.
Dec 29 23:39:38 <raster> in the end you'll end up implementing sql in dbus
Dec 29 23:39:46 <raster> most likely if u go the complicated filter way
Dec 29 23:39:48 <raster> for searching
Dec 29 23:39:55 <raster> :)
Dec 29 23:40:03 <raster> thats why i disagree with using dbus for this
Dec 29 23:40:17 <raster> i would just go the much simpler route of files on disk
Dec 29 23:40:27 <raster> and a library to make access consistent
Dec 29 23:40:45 <raster> i personalyl prefer keeping files simple
Dec 29 23:40:54 <raster> vcards for contacts
Dec 29 23:41:00 <raster> mbox format for messages
Dec 29 23:41:08 <raster> now your data is easy for users to manage
Dec 29 23:41:10 <quickdev> yeah..that library makes things more mature :)
Dec 29 23:41:18 <raster> u can import/export and transform it very easily
Dec 29 23:41:29 <raster> vcard is a widely used stanard
Dec 29 23:41:30 <quickdev> raster, inform me as soon as that lib works..interesting in that ;)
Dec 29 23:41:36 <raster> its old and well documented
Dec 29 23:41:47 <raster> it allows for interchange with most contact-apps
Dec 29 23:42:01 <raster> see data.c in elementary-sms
Dec 29 23:42:04 <raster> :)
Dec 29 23:42:12 <raster> the parsing and loading is done
Dec 29 23:42:16 <raster> :)
Dec 29 23:42:24 <quickdev> data.c - but you are going to move that into a library?
Dec 29 23:42:24 <raster> nothing for modification is done yet
Dec 29 23:42:31 <raster> i simply implement what i need as i need it
Dec 29 23:42:34 <raster> :)
Dec 29 23:43:46 <bumbl> well the dbus implementation will be done by opimd anyway
Dec 29 23:44:36 <raster> i hadnt planned on it
Dec 29 23:44:57 <Ainulindale> Pooooong
Dec 29 23:45:04 <Ainulindale> Someone sent the Ainu signal?
Dec 29 23:45:17 <quickdev> Ainulindale, not that I know of...
Dec 29 23:45:33 <Ainulindale> quickdev: well, you asked for me, mrmoku and bumbl and Hire too
Dec 29 23:46:35 <quickdev> Ainulindale, could you add dolf to shr-themes.git?
Dec 29 23:46:44 <Ainulindale> Well you could do that yourself you know
Dec 29 23:46:53 <Ainulindale> We're the only one to have access
Dec 29 23:47:00 <Ainulindale> Plus mrmoku as he can sudo in fact
Dec 29 23:47:28 <Ainulindale> In order to do that, anyway, I'd need a key
Dec 29 23:47:35 <Ainulindale> And a desired username
Dec 29 23:47:37 <quickdev> Ainulindale, tell me how to add access - then I'll do it in future
Dec 29 23:47:55 <Ainulindale> quickdev: well that's not the matter, I can do it, it's just the fact that you can do it :-)
Dec 29 23:48:06 <Ainulindale> (i.e.. it's possible)
Dec 29 23:48:15 <Ainulindale> (not do it yourself because I'm too lazy for that)
Dec 29 23:48:17 <quickdev> yeah, it is, but I don't know how :)
Dec 29 23:48:30 <Ainulindale> well you have to clone gitosis.git
Dec 29 23:48:46 <Ainulindale> s/gitosis/gitosis-admin/
Dec 29 23:48:46 <bzzbot> Ainulindale meant: well you have to clone gitosis-admin.git
Dec 29 23:49:03 <Ainulindale> And it'll become explicit
Dec 29 23:52:00 <quickdev> ok
Dec 29 23:52:20 <quickdev> Ainulindale, let's rename shr-theme to icon-theme-shr - agree?
Dec 29 23:52:38 <Ainulindale> Nope
Dec 29 23:52:42 <Ainulindale> That's not the intent of that repo
Dec 29 23:52:54 <Ainulindale> It'll contain all the themes, be they icons or other themes :-)
Dec 29 23:52:54 <quickdev> Ainulindale, I don't talkt about the repository
Dec 29 23:52:57 <Ainulindale> e.g. gtkrc
Dec 29 23:53:02 <Ainulindale> Ah, then I agree :-)
Dec 29 23:53:05 <quickdev> have a look at shr.git/shr-theme
Dec 29 23:53:12 <quickdev> ok ;)
Dec 29 23:53:22 <Ainulindale> Though it'll break things
Dec 29 23:53:52 <quickdev> Ainulindale, and lets eventually rename shr.git to shr-apps.git - to have everything well named.....we can do that better now than in future..you know ;)
Dec 29 23:54:15 <Ainulindale> Yeah, in the end that will be dealt with
Dec 29 23:54:28 <Ainulindale> But not before we have those stable functionnalities I bug you with :-p
Dec 29 23:54:32 <Ainulindale> By the way, contact cache is great
Dec 29 23:55:16 <Ainulindale> (it seems some NS is down on my side, it's impossible to reach a bunch of sites)
Dec 29 23:55:18 <quickdev> working on ussd atm
Dec 29 23:55:30 <Ainulindale> Yeah I know
Dec 29 23:55:41 <Ainulindale> Even though I don't think it's that useful, I never heard about that before :-)
Dec 29 23:55:55 <Ainulindale> I think multi SMS will be a better addition :-)
Dec 29 23:55:57 <Ainulindale> But keep doing that :-)
Dec 29 23:56:02 <quickdev> yeah
Dec 29 23:57:14 <bumbl> ussd - isn't that the way some prepaid operators send out one's prepaid amount of money
Dec 29 23:57:25 <quickdev> bumbl, yeah
Dec 29 23:57:57 <Ainulindale> By the way
Dec 29 23:58:03 <Ainulindale> DISTRO angstrom failed at etk
Dec 29 23:58:21 <Ainulindale> Makefile.am:5: `intl' should not be in SUBDIRS when AM_GNU_GETTEXT([external]) is used
Dec 29 23:58:37 <Ainulindale> I guess that's because I used an existing tmp.
Dec 29 23:58:54 <quickdev> probably ;)
Dec 29 23:59:39 <Ainulindale> Grmbl, I have trouble to reach almost everything, it's a pain
Dec 30 00:00:10 <Ainulindale> 10 packets transmitted, 2 received, 80% packet loss, time 9008ms
Dec 30 00:00:50 <Ainulindale> --- git.freesmartphone.org ping statistics ---
Dec 30 00:00:50 <Ainulindale> 27 packets transmitted, 3 received, 88% packet loss, time 26008ms
Dec 30 00:00:52 <Ainulindale> More exactly.
Dec 30 00:01:01 <mwester> 88% packet loss?
Dec 30 00:01:07 <Ainulindale> Yeah, I'm a lucky guy
Dec 30 00:01:08 <bumbl> hmm nice
Dec 30 00:01:11 <mwester> Your ISP on strike?
Dec 30 00:01:15 <bumbl> your provider rocks
Dec 30 00:01:18 <Ainulindale> Let's hope not
Dec 30 00:01:26 <Ainulindale> mwester: while I'm still online
Dec 30 00:02:00 <Ainulindale> Do you think it would be possible to *try* to build some kind of specific package based on a given revision of andy tracking, on which we would apply your patches or not?
Dec 30 00:02:09 <mwester> Yes.
Dec 30 00:02:15 <Ainulindale> mwester: Now? :-)
Dec 30 00:02:28 <Ainulindale> Oh and by patches I mean, giving us a stable kernel :-)
Dec 30 00:02:32 <mwester> In the next couple of days, perhaps. :)
Dec 30 00:02:42 <Ainulindale> No matter which features are removed
Dec 30 00:03:06 <Ainulindale> mwester: Well I'm willing to build the recipe as long as you commit the patches somewhere and give me the rev you want to use
Dec 30 00:03:44 <mwester> I'll work on that.  Do you have your GTA01 working yet?
Dec 30 00:04:11 <Ainulindale> (and by somewhere this would preferrably be SHR)
Dec 30 00:04:11 <Ainulindale> Well it's working, I don't have a battery, but it's working
Dec 30 00:04:20 <Ainulindale> And if I'm about to help you on kernel I may want to have the debug board mickey|away was ready to give
Dec 30 00:04:27 <Ainulindale> (Or was it stefan_schmidt)
Dec 30 00:04:39 <mwester> No battery!  (a nokia blc5 works, I use that often)
Dec 30 00:04:50 <mwester> bl5c?  
Dec 30 00:05:01 <Ainulindale> Well I can cope with that for the moment
Dec 30 00:05:08 <mwester> bl-5c <-- that's what it is.
Dec 30 00:05:13 <mwester> bl-6c will also fit.
Dec 30 00:05:50 <mwester> Yes, get the debug board - very worthwhile to have console access while working on the device :)
Dec 30 00:06:09 <mwester> But not too useful with the GTA01, at least while the GSM is active.
Dec 30 00:15:56 <Ainu|Fallback> well
Dec 30 00:15:56 <dos1> Ainulindale: in poland ussd are common, here it's very annoing to use phone without ussd support (i personally have written script which uses mdbus to send and recieve ussd's)
Dec 30 00:15:58 <Ainu|Fallback> Thatr's weird
Dec 30 00:16:07 <Ainu|Fallback> 01:05:13 < Ainulindale> I'll buy the battery if I can find it somewhere
Dec 30 00:16:07 <Ainu|Fallback> 01:05:31 < Ainulindale> For the time being I'd like to be able to reach freesmartphone.org
Dec 30 00:16:10 <Ainu|Fallback> 01:05:41 < Ainulindale> So I'm going to plug off my modem and plug it on again
Dec 30 00:16:13 <Ainu|Fallback> Was I saying
Dec 30 00:16:27 <Ainu|Fallback> I'm currently accessing stuff through another computer on the same ISP
Dec 30 00:16:41 <Ainu|Fallback> Though with my current connection
Dec 30 00:16:47 <Ainu|Fallback> So what could possibly go wrong this way?
Dec 30 00:17:02 <Ainu|Fallback> Ainulind1le: hey dumbass
Dec 30 00:17:19 <mwester> Oh dear.  He's talking to himself now. :(
Dec 30 00:17:25 <mwester> Routing?
Dec 30 00:17:49 <Ainu|Fallback> 01:17:33 < Ainulind1le> On the same ISP?
Dec 30 00:17:49 <Ainu|Fallback> 01:17:39 < Ainulind1le> Almost the same location?
Dec 30 00:18:01 <Ainu|Fallback> That's funny I can see what I write almost directly
Dec 30 00:18:15 <Ainu|Fallback> But here I can't see what's written on the other console
Dec 30 00:18:21 <Ainu|Fallback> So I receive, but I can't send
Dec 30 00:18:23 <Ainu|Fallback> How come
Dec 30 00:18:24 <Ainulind1le> On the same ISP?
Dec 30 00:18:24 <Ainulind1le> Almost the same location?
Dec 30 00:18:41 <mwester> There it is!  Wow, that's quite some lag!
Dec 30 00:18:49 <Ainu|Fallback> Well, indeed it is.
Dec 30 00:18:58 <Ainu|Fallback> I think I'll come back with a good old ssh -L
Dec 30 00:19:27 <raster> laaaaaaaaaaaaaag
Dec 30 00:21:17 <Ainu|Fallback> Yeah, a bit.
Dec 30 00:22:02 <raster> coding pussy agrees
Dec 30 00:22:07 <raster> 'meow
Dec 30 00:22:56 <Ainu|Fallback> Well that's weird I can't access the proxy now.
Dec 30 00:22:57 <Ainu|Fallback> Grmbl
Dec 30 00:23:09 <quickdev> Ainu|Fallback, USSD can return something like "Now, you can send 1 to get your balance or 2, to recharge your card." <- in that case mode=USERACTION is transferred. Then I'm showing a keypad in ophonekitd's dialog and a button to resubmit again, right?
Dec 30 00:23:23 <Ainu|Fallback> Well yes
Dec 30 00:24:56 <Ainu|Fallback> Ah, now the proxy is working.
Dec 30 00:25:02 <Ainu|Fallback> At least I can check fso
Dec 30 00:28:08 <Ainu|Fallback> Ah well
Dec 30 00:28:15 <Ainu|Fallback> It seems my own computer can't connect to the network :->
Dec 30 00:32:33 <Ainu|Fallback> It's starting to piss me.
Dec 30 00:32:43 <Ainu|Fallback> I think I'll go to bed.
Dec 30 00:54:30 <StealthCP> ok, I want to start developing/building software for openmoko (well SHR) and I'm not sure where to start with a dev environment / toolchain.  Any help?
Dec 30 00:55:45 <Hire> night guys
Dec 30 00:58:56 <yoyo> I found bug bluetooth freeazz phone
Dec 30 00:59:13 <yoyo> if some device scan services on moko, moko freez
Dec 30 02:06:25 <pingvid> and devs on?
Dec 30 02:36:12 <johnsu01>  /gaway
Dec 30 02:36:15 <johnsu01> sigh
Dec 30 02:36:27 <pingvid> sigh
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 30 02:59:56 2008