**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 09 02:59:57 2009
Jan 09 05:49:07 <tmzt> raster: have you seen the palm ui pictures/description? would that be doable with an efl ui?
Jan 09 06:18:41 <raster> tmzt: the pre stuff?
Jan 09 06:18:58 <tmzt> yes
Jan 09 06:19:07 <raster> if it wqere within 1 process - yes
Jan 09 06:19:24 <raster> other than that you have the problem of multiple processes
Jan 09 06:19:30 <raster> and that in x woudl mean multiple windows
Jan 09 06:19:36 <raster> and for that u'd need to composite them
Jan 09 06:19:42 <raster> but it'd be possible
Jan 09 06:19:43 <tmzt> I'm wondering more about the scene graph they might be using within the web renderer
Jan 09 06:20:03 <raster> i seriously doubt its ALL a web scene graph
Jan 09 06:20:10 <raster> the stuff INSIDE an app window
Jan 09 06:20:15 <raster> *IF* its a "web app" will be
Jan 09 06:20:28 <raster> i will bet my money sopme of they apps are native stuff
Jan 09 06:20:35 <raster> that dont use html/ccc/js etc.
Jan 09 06:20:45 <raster> but thats what they are exposing to "developers"
Jan 09 06:20:55 <raster> much like in the past phones have exposed java (j2me) only
Jan 09 06:21:08 <raster> all the phone core stuff is written in c and generally is not able to be modified
Jan 09 06:21:15 <raster> just "addon java apps" are possible
Jan 09 06:21:30 <raster> thats my bet on how its working
Jan 09 06:22:40 <tmzt> how lightweight can X itself be made for arm devices? in the sense of modesetting on more complex platforms
Jan 09 06:22:52 <raster> it already is lightweight
Jan 09 06:23:03 <raster> modesetting just moves a blob of code from userspace to kernel
Jan 09 06:23:08 <raster> it doesnt make anything lighter or heavier
Jan 09 06:24:14 <raster> x is perfectly capable of all of this
Jan 09 06:24:22 <raster> it jjst needs drivers for the hw
Jan 09 06:24:31 <raster> or maybe some more optimisation work on pixman and xrender
Jan 09 06:27:28 <raster> thew pre is using the omap 3 cpu
Jan 09 06:27:33 <tmzt> it seems that with android and the palm pre (which may use X but I don't know), there are potentially three incompatible systems for applications on essentially open ("can run applications) linux-based cell phones. X of course has always allowed for compatiblity across toolkits which these other systems do not
Jan 09 06:27:38 <raster> and thats several times more powerful than the 2442 on the freerunner
Jan 09 06:27:56 <raster> and in addition to the 2442 it adds a 430mhz dsp (it can do up to 8 instructions per cycle)
Jan 09 06:28:15 <raster> it ALSO adds an imagination sgx 3d core (gl-es 2.0) which unlike the glamo is actually a good gfx chip
Jan 09 06:28:20 <raster> but its far from being open
Jan 09 06:28:35 <raster> and yeds
Jan 09 06:28:41 <raster> one major thng i dont like about android
Jan 09 06:28:47 <tmzt> there is a possibility of using an X proxy as binder ipc surfaceflinger client on android at least for compatibility
Jan 09 06:28:51 <raster> and so on is their propensity to go make incompatible userspaces
Jan 09 06:28:59 <raster> incompatible toolkit/app suit apis
Jan 09 06:29:14 <raster> the need to force 1 language and 1 api down peoples throwats
Jan 09 06:29:32 <raster> without doing the "lets all play along together" game x allows
Jan 09 06:30:37 <tmzt> statements from google developers in #android have been that disallowing native applications at this point in time are not for security reasons, that the system implements the security reguardless of whether running dex code or native code
Jan 09 06:30:58 <raster> doesnt bother me
Jan 09 06:31:05 <raster> the apis are not available
Jan 09 06:31:13 <tmzt> which apis?
Jan 09 06:31:23 <raster> eg i cant write a c or c++ app and simply call their ui api calls to do stuff
Jan 09 06:31:27 <raster> most of them
Jan 09 06:31:37 <raster> it'd need a bridge via dex/java
Jan 09 06:31:56 <raster> and at that point i am just going to go "my god thats ugly"
Jan 09 06:32:31 <tmzt> the source is available but not all the api's are public (can be used in installable application, and the loader doesn't support native applications now anyway)
Jan 09 06:32:58 <raster> bingo
Jan 09 06:33:04 <raster> as i said
Jan 09 06:33:06 <raster> :)
Jan 09 06:35:30 <tmzt> the interesting thing is a large number of the people come in to #htc-linux asking about "android" support on the devices while most of the work is done at the kernel level
Jan 09 06:36:06 <raster> yes
Jan 09 06:37:21 <tmzt> so there is openmoko and framework which are going to use efl? how can we make this an option across devices, an alternative to android?
Jan 09 06:38:32 <tmzt> with a complete set of applications (like the thousands in debian) but also designed to fit a smaller screen
Jan 09 06:40:11 <raster> well om is already on that path
Jan 09 06:40:13 <raster> as is angstrom
Jan 09 06:40:17 <raster> ie u ship x
Jan 09 06:40:28 <raster> u have a wm that works nicely on scmall screen devices
Jan 09 06:40:33 <raster> and toherwise handels the core desktop
Jan 09 06:40:41 <raster> then apps can pretty much be anything they like
Jan 09 06:40:41 <tmzt> fso is getting support for msm and htc modems, thanks to mickey|zzZZzz and dcordes 
Jan 09 06:40:50 <raster> of course apps need to be adapted to tiny screen and limited input
Jan 09 06:40:59 <raster> gimp just inst usable - even tho it can run
Jan 09 06:41:03 <raster> (for example)
Jan 09 06:41:08 <tmzt> yeah
Jan 09 06:41:15 <raster> all the groundwork is already done
Jan 09 06:41:19 <raster> and maqny apps already work
Jan 09 06:41:22 <raster> multiple toolkits do
Jan 09 06:41:36 <raster> i see no problem in including multiple toolkits
Jan 09 06:41:54 <raster> everyone shares a common x
Jan 09 06:42:08 <raster> it already works on desktop thanks to x
Jan 09 06:42:15 <raster> (everyone works withotu special emulation layers)
Jan 09 06:42:25 <raster> and this ALSO includes jhava - it "just works"
Jan 09 06:42:37 <raster> because there already is an x11 layer for java (awt/swing etc.)
Jan 09 06:42:50 <raster> it works for C#/.net via mono
Jan 09 06:43:01 <raster> it works for python, perl, ruby ... blah blah blah
Jan 09 06:43:13 <raster> it needs tweaking or re-doing of ui's
Jan 09 06:43:26 <raster> but u need that to do an iphone or "pre" or "android" app anyway
Jan 09 06:43:32 <raster> buyt you ONLY need to do the ui bit
Jan 09 06:44:49 <raster> efl is just one of the many options
Jan 09 06:44:55 <raster> likely it will always be the "sexier" option
Jan 09 06:45:02 <raster> as it will just look slicker
Jan 09 06:45:06 <raster> but if u use gtk and like it - go ahead
Jan 09 06:45:12 <raster> someon just needs to do a good "gtkrc"
Jan 09 06:45:24 <raster> same qith qt
Jan 09 06:45:24 <tmzt> well, I like gtk but gtk2 seems slow on pxa
Jan 09 06:45:27 <raster> etc.
Jan 09 06:45:40 <raster> i am actually surprised how fast efl can be
Jan 09 06:45:44 <tmzt> I used gpe for a while on zaurus sl5500
Jan 09 06:45:45 <raster> despite all of the overhead it has
Jan 09 06:45:58 <tmzt> is the problem with gtk2 mostly cairo now?
Jan 09 06:46:04 <raster> not sure
Jan 09 06:46:14 <raster> i stopped paying attention to details of gtk a long time ago
Jan 09 06:46:21 <tmzt> or all the fiting algorithms
Jan 09 06:46:22 <tmzt> oh
Jan 09 06:46:40 <raster> last core work i did on gtk was gtk's theme engines/system
Jan 09 06:46:42 <raster> years ago
Jan 09 06:46:48 <raster> i used gtk over the years
Jan 09 06:46:52 <raster> but waned from it
Jan 09 06:47:08 <raster> gtk just doesnt have the "zing" i want
Jan 09 06:47:14 <raster> and likely wont for a looooooooooooong time
Jan 09 06:47:28 <raster> i want to be able to have textured backgrounds
Jan 09 06:47:32 <raster> with shadowed overlays
Jan 09 06:47:43 <tmzt> a fast webkit browser would be nice, even on pxa27x with 64mb but midori feels slow with the gtk ui
Jan 09 06:47:49 <raster> and alpha blending between widgets and be able to stack widgets in layers
Jan 09 06:47:53 <tmzt> it's the ui that doesn't respond most of the time
Jan 09 06:48:37 <raster> i do have to say.. omap3 is... FAST
Jan 09 06:48:44 <raster> a lot of the reason the "pre" looks nice is the omap
Jan 09 06:48:56 <raster> likely they have some displaysystem that is built on top of glt-es
Jan 09 06:48:57 <tmzt> yeah I'm sure of that
Jan 09 06:48:58 <raster> err gl-es
Jan 09 06:49:03 <raster> and are using the sgx core
Jan 09 06:49:10 <raster> but the cpu is not sluggish at all
Jan 09 06:49:21 <raster> in fact its about on par with my via-mini-itx @ 1ghz
Jan 09 06:49:27 <raster> (and thats at 500mhz only)
Jan 09 06:49:34 <raster> at a small fraction of the power consumption
Jan 09 06:49:41 <raster> and no heatsinks or fans to speak of
Jan 09 06:50:56 <tmzt> omap3 is the chip I have been hoping for in a phone, though I wonder what they are using for baseband processor
Jan 09 06:51:15 <raster> dunno
Jan 09 06:51:33 <raster> but if there was an open phone using the omap3530...
Jan 09 06:51:35 <raster> that'd be good
Jan 09 08:43:14 <raster> aaah well some elementayr users should be happy
Jan 09 08:43:18 <raster> list widget is now working and in svn
Jan 09 08:43:29 <mirko-paroli> ah, raster
Jan 09 08:43:36 <mirko-paroli> I have a quick questin
Jan 09 08:44:15 <mirko-paroli> raster, how can I pass initial values or data to embryo when it is embeded in edje
Jan 09 08:44:31 <mirko-paroli> passing from C/python to edje/embryo
Jan 09 08:44:43 <raster> messages
Jan 09 08:44:48 <raster> edje hgas a whole messaging api
Jan 09 08:44:48 <mirko-paroli> ah k
Jan 09 08:44:53 <raster> u can send messages to the edje
Jan 09 08:45:01 <raster> (or signals - signals are just string pairs)
Jan 09 08:45:14 <mirko-paroli> super thx
Jan 09 08:45:18 <raster> on the edje side you can then intepret them any way u like
Jan 09 08:45:24 <raster> messages are more extensive
Jan 09 08:45:39 <raster> allowing u to send ints, floats, lists of ints/flots, strings, string + int/float et.c
Jan 09 08:45:51 <mirko-paroli> sounds just like what I need :)
Jan 09 08:46:00 <raster> its nto totally arbitrary
Jan 09 08:46:15 <raster> but its enough to pretty much brew up any kind of ad-hock messaging u need for most kinds of info
Jan 09 08:46:44 <raster> edje_object_message_signal_process(obj) (in c)
Jan 09 08:46:55 <raster> also forces any queued messages/signals to be processed then
Jan 09 08:47:03 <raster> normally they get queued and handled some time later
Jan 09 08:47:32 <mirko-paroli> ah k
Jan 09 08:47:38 <mirko-paroli> I'll check it out
Jan 09 08:47:47 <mirko-paroli> I have another question if you don't mind
Jan 09 08:48:17 <mirko-paroli> d you happen to know where I can modify the theme used to display the icons on the desktop ?
Jan 09 08:48:27 <mirko-paroli> and I mean not in the theme.edc
Jan 09 08:48:45 <raster> the icon theme
Jan 09 08:48:51 <raster> (ie xdg/fdo theme)?
Jan 09 08:48:58 <mirko-paroli> I think so
Jan 09 08:49:22 <mirko-paroli> i couldn't find a way to access that easily
Jan 09 08:51:23 <mirko-paroli> can you tell me where i find the theme or what I need to edit it?
Jan 09 09:08:35 <raster> mirko-paroli:  there's an icon theme config val in e/src (in the stuff that gets compiled)
Jan 09 09:08:44 <raster> theres also a gui to select from themes - if they are installed properly
Jan 09 09:10:30 <mirko-paroli> raster: ok I'll digg into it, thx a lot again :)
Jan 09 09:11:00 <raster> (i dont think oe installs themes properly to xdg standards so they dont get listed)
Jan 09 09:14:38 <mirko> hey
Jan 09 09:15:04 <mirko> i'm getting a strange error related to PyYAML when starting the fso-framework: http://pastebin.ca/1304157
Jan 09 09:15:31 <mirko> does anybody has an idea how to solve that issue?
Jan 09 09:19:44 <mirko-paroli> raster I have 5 to chose from from small to Massive
Jan 09 09:21:27 <raster> ?
Jan 09 09:21:32 <raster> thats just icon size in launcher
Jan 09 09:21:33 <raster> not theme
Jan 09 09:21:38 <mirko-paroli> ah
Jan 09 09:21:44 <raster> under look
Jan 09 09:21:47 <raster> theres "icon theme"
Jan 09 09:21:51 <mirko-paroli> they are not the same, sry
Jan 09 09:21:57 <raster> or should be.. if the conf module for icon themes is loaded
Jan 09 09:23:41 <mirko-paroli> ah no, i don't have look
Jan 09 09:27:13 <raster> Settings - Icon Theme
Jan 09 09:27:16 <mirko-paroli> i had to load it and now I get tango
Jan 09 09:35:00 <mirko-paroli> raster, does the theming allow me to put only one icon per line?
Jan 09 09:35:09 <mirko-paroli> per row
Jan 09 09:37:05 <raster> no
Jan 09 09:37:16 <raster> thats part of the fm widget
Jan 09 09:37:20 <raster> it does have a list mode
Jan 09 09:37:32 <raster> but it'll want to put a bg behind the lines
Jan 09 09:37:42 <raster> and there is no way to turn it on for the apps on the desktop
Jan 09 09:38:00 <raster> i am not working on it as i pan to totally rip that stuff out into separate modules and make them desktop gadgets
Jan 09 09:38:15 <raster> fix gadman's desktop gadget stuff to be sanely usabel with a touchscreen (1 mouse button)
Jan 09 09:38:17 <raster> etc.
Jan 09 09:38:49 <mirko-paroli> hmm ... so there is currently no way to do that?
Jan 09 09:40:51 <raster> no
Jan 09 09:41:02 <mirko-paroli> :(
Jan 09 09:41:04 <raster> as i said
Jan 09 09:41:05 <raster> the code can
Jan 09 09:41:14 <raster> its a confg optin when the code creates the fm widget
Jan 09 09:41:23 <raster> but the code just creates it in icon view mode
Jan 09 09:44:45 <mirko-paroli> hmm k
Jan 09 11:32:16 <Hire> anybody there?
Jan 09 11:32:26 <mirko-paroli> yapp
Jan 09 11:33:21 <mirko-paroli> if that was meant to be a general question ;)
Jan 09 11:35:15 <mirko-paroli> ah, Hire
Jan 09 11:35:24 <mirko-paroli> you asked me once if Paroli was usable yet
Jan 09 11:35:34 <mirko-paroli> did you see my mail @communit and @devel ?
Jan 09 11:36:10 <Hire> yes, 
Jan 09 11:36:20 <Hire> but i don't remember the thread :D
Jan 09 11:36:33 <mirko-paroli> Paroli Base
Jan 09 11:37:04 <mirko-paroli> fresh at 8:40 GMT this morning ;)
Jan 09 11:37:44 <Hire> ah yead, I read it
Jan 09 11:37:49 <Hire> when i have time i will test it 
Jan 09 11:38:03 <mirko-paroli> hehe k, jsut wanted to give you a late
Jan 09 11:38:06 <mirko-paroli> yes it works ;)
Jan 09 11:38:17 <mirko-paroli> well somewhat :)
Jan 09 11:38:31 <Hire> ahah
Jan 09 11:38:33 <Hire> as SHR :D
Jan 09 11:38:37 <Hire> ( ainulindale :x )
Jan 09 11:40:06 <dario> hello everyone, does someone know how to sync the hw clock to the sw time on SHR?
Jan 09 11:42:11 <mirko-paroli> hehe
Jan 09 11:43:45 <Flyser_> dario: hwclock --systohc
Jan 09 11:44:44 <dario> Flyser_ it doesn't seem to persist over reboots
Jan 09 11:45:13 <Flyser_> well it should ...
Jan 09 11:45:14 <Flyser_> strange
Jan 09 11:45:40 <abraxa_> Hello world! I'm still alive as you can see ;)
Jan 09 11:45:58 <Hire> abraxa?
Jan 09 11:46:01 <Hire> the real abraxa?
Jan 09 11:46:03 <Hire> the real one?
Jan 09 11:46:17 <abraxa_> There's a fake one?
Jan 09 11:46:20 <abraxa_> heh
Jan 09 11:46:22 <Hire> you
Jan 09 11:46:24 <Hire> :)
Jan 09 11:46:29 <dario> Flyser, the hwclock gets sync but when i reboot the FR it is not synchronized at all
Jan 09 11:46:42 <Hire> so
Jan 09 11:46:50 <Hire> what are you saying on opimd?
Jan 09 11:46:55 <dario> abraxa_ we all are really happy to see you!
Jan 09 11:47:00 <dario> news, news news!
Jan 09 11:47:11 <Hire> developerdeveloperdeveloperdeveloperdeveloper
Jan 09 11:48:41 <abraxa_> Hire: I say "I'm doing what I can and I need git access" ;)
Jan 09 11:48:48 <abraxa_> (again)
Jan 09 11:49:00 <Hire> whel
Jan 09 11:49:10 <Hire> argh
Jan 09 11:49:11 <Hire> nice
Jan 09 11:49:12 <Hire> so
Jan 09 11:49:27 <Hire> spanks mickey, alphaone and others for the git access
Jan 09 11:49:38 <Hire> we need quickdev so him can integrate opimd on lfg
Jan 09 11:49:51 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: ping
Jan 09 11:49:52 <Hire> and however ainulindale wants to help you with opimd
Jan 09 11:50:03 <Hire> mrmoku: is away, as always
Jan 09 11:50:10 <mrmoku> hmmm
Jan 09 11:50:21 <mrmoku> implementing opimd me hopes ;)
Jan 09 11:50:28 <Hire> ahah
Jan 09 11:50:35 <Hire> no, he is cooking 
Jan 09 11:50:53 <Hire> he lefts him nerd status
Jan 09 11:51:02 <Hire> however, abraxa_ is here
Jan 09 11:51:15 <mrmoku> Hire: thats interesting news...
Jan 09 11:51:20 <Hire> *his
Jan 09 11:51:24 <Hire> are you sure?
Jan 09 11:51:25 <Hire> :D
Jan 09 11:51:34 <Hire> abraxa_ needs the git access
Jan 09 11:51:36 * mrmoku did not say good news
Jan 09 11:51:36 <Hire> but always
Jan 09 11:51:51 <Hire> mickey and others is away ..
Jan 09 11:51:57 <Hire> *are
Jan 09 11:52:02 <Hire> WHAT THE FRACK
Jan 09 11:52:15 <abraxa_> Hire: Well, technically I do have git access
Jan 09 11:52:19 * Hire does a very deep breath
Jan 09 11:52:21 <abraxa_> It's just that git refuses to work really
Jan 09 11:52:22 <abraxa_> lol
Jan 09 11:52:30 <Hire> ah
Jan 09 11:52:33 <Hire> interesting
Jan 09 11:52:35 <abraxa_> Hence why I'm here
Jan 09 11:53:23 <mrmoku> abraxa_: with what error?
Jan 09 11:58:25 <abraxa_> mrmoku: Well, I used to be able to use it but now it doesn't track any of my local files and if I add them it ignores my changes - it's been a while
Jan 09 12:01:43 <mrmoku> abraxa_: do you know git gui? 
Jan 09 12:02:06 <abraxa_> mrmoku: I've only been using git on the console for now, so... no :)
Jan 09 12:02:44 <mrmoku> abraxa_: it is part of git and very nice to commit stuff
Jan 09 12:02:48 <mrmoku> though needs x
Jan 09 12:08:34 <abraxa_> mrmoku: Thanks, I'll check it out
Jan 09 12:09:53 <morphis> heyho
Jan 09 12:10:16 <abraxa_> hellos
Jan 09 12:48:13 <Ainulindale> abraxa_!!
Jan 09 12:48:54 <raster> http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary
Jan 09 12:48:59 <raster> for those using elementary
Jan 09 12:49:30 <raster> it's for C - of course, not python. it covers getting started in a simple way.
Jan 09 13:02:34 <mrmoku> raster: me was waiting for that :-)
Jan 09 13:03:17 <raster> if someoen wants to
Jan 09 13:03:21 <raster> they can add python examples
Jan 09 13:03:34 * mrmoku does not need nor want python ;)
Jan 09 13:03:38 <raster> tho i doubt they will be significantly easier/simpler :)
Jan 09 13:03:44 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: hey o/
Jan 09 13:03:45 <raster> and likely will clutter things up a bit
Jan 09 13:03:53 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: hey
Jan 09 13:04:10 <raster> i will add more examples (with less handholding than the first)
Jan 09 13:04:13 <yoyo> kernel 2.6.28 is not booting on gta01 :/
Jan 09 13:04:14 <raster> that do more widgets
Jan 09 13:05:10 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: we should talk about opimd in lfg
Jan 09 13:05:51 <Ainulindale> yes we should
Jan 09 13:06:17 <mrmoku> quickdev said something about being busy with some proprietary web project
Jan 09 13:06:38 <mrmoku> so even if I'm far from speeking dbus or glib fluently... I would give it a try
Jan 09 13:06:46 <Ainulindale> It's easy
Jan 09 13:06:51 <Ainulindale> It's just boring
Jan 09 13:06:57 <Ainulindale> (My GTA02 won't boot it seems)
Jan 09 13:07:02 <Ainulindale> (I had a car accident this morning)
Jan 09 13:07:02 <mrmoku> yeah, just a wrapper...
Jan 09 13:07:14 <mrmoku> uhh, but you're ok?
Jan 09 13:07:20 <Ainulindale> Yeah but my car is dead
Jan 09 13:07:24 <mrmoku> shit
Jan 09 13:07:29 <Ainulindale> Yeah
Jan 09 13:08:03 <raster> Ainulindale: poo!
Jan 09 13:08:15 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: by the way... I build an unstable unstable image :-)
Jan 09 13:08:28 <Ainulindale> Is it working?
Jan 09 13:08:29 <mrmoku> the first time the build went through from the beginning to the end without any error
Jan 09 13:08:37 <mrmoku> quit of working... 
Jan 09 13:08:51 <mrmoku> the new settings app is crashing because of a missing dep
Jan 09 13:08:58 <mrmoku> calls and contacts work nicely
Jan 09 13:09:41 <mrmoku> messages are crashing though... 
Jan 09 13:09:57 <mrmoku> I'm updating now, because there was new stuff from dolf
Jan 09 13:10:16 <Ainulindale> Ok nice
Jan 09 13:10:55 <mrmoku> ahh, sometimes even messages work :-)
Jan 09 13:12:09 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: about the opimd wrapping... is the api in frameworkd current?
Jan 09 13:17:49 <yoyo> how to put redirect boot kernel to ttyACM0 ?
Jan 09 13:18:49 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: yes
Jan 09 13:18:53 <lindi-> yoyo: is it even possible?
Jan 09 13:19:15 <yoyo> hyyy I don't know 
Jan 09 13:19:18 <yoyo> I think 
Jan 09 13:19:37 <lindi-> you need to have acm gadget driver running from the first moment you want to print something
Jan 09 13:19:48 <yoyo> setenv bootargs console=ttySAC0,115200 console=tty0
Jan 09 13:20:05 <lindi-> yoyo: isn't ttySAC0 something else?
Jan 09 13:22:11 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: Ahoy
Jan 09 13:22:13 <abraxa_> mrmoku: lfg?
Jan 09 13:22:36 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: libframeworkd-glib 
Jan 09 13:22:40 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: how are you?
Jan 09 13:23:46 <yoyo> Or put dmesg on screen 
Jan 09 13:23:59 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: Busy as hell but here because I wanna bring opimd/pypimd into a state where people can explore/work on/work with it
Jan 09 13:24:23 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: Well same here
Jan 09 13:24:34 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: Is there a channel for lfg then? Wondering because of mrmoku's "we should talk about opimd in lfg"
Jan 09 13:24:34 <Ainulindale> I did a small patch on the cvs backend by the way, and started to study things
Jan 09 13:24:45 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: opimd integration in libframeworkd-glib 
Jan 09 13:24:47 <Ainulindale> it's a C wrapper
Jan 09 13:24:52 <Ainulindale> (Coming back in ten minutes)
Jan 09 13:25:27 <abraxa_> Yeah, I remember... and now realize that he meant the *subject* of "opimd in lfg", not "let's talk about opimd in channel lfg", lol
Jan 09 13:25:42 * abraxa_ points at $RANDOM_PERSON to blame
Jan 09 13:25:43 <abraxa_> :D
Jan 09 13:26:34 <mrmoku> :-)
Jan 09 13:27:15 <kd8ikt> export $RANDOM_PERSON=sean pulitz
Jan 09 13:27:57 <abraxa_> hehe
Jan 09 13:28:33 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: As for me... I met with mickey shortly before christmas and discussed the work to do
Jan 09 13:28:58 <abraxa_> My plan is this: merge my local changes with the changes Charlie did, then push everything back into OM git
Jan 09 13:29:13 <abraxa_> After that, document the interfaces using docs.fso.org
Jan 09 13:30:10 <abraxa_> When that's done, write up a wiki page describing the status of each module, the architecture of the PIM subsystem, the general architecture of the existing modules and some usage examples
Jan 09 13:31:07 <abraxa_> Unfortunately my time is very limited atm (final year of univ) but I'm trying what I can
Jan 09 13:32:17 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: Then we should talk a lot then about how to integrate what ou did in SHR
Jan 09 13:32:22 <Ainulindale> +y
Jan 09 13:34:01 <abraxa_> Sure, what exactly would you like to discuss?
Jan 09 13:34:20 <Ainulindale> wait a minute I'm on the phone
Jan 09 13:34:39 <abraxa_> NO!
Jan 09 13:34:47 * mrmoku wonders if Ainulindale's phone is a GTA01 now ;)
Jan 09 13:34:47 <abraxa_> Screw people on phones
Jan 09 13:34:55 <mrmoku> who needs phones :p
Jan 09 13:34:56 <abraxa_> They can wait until we have working Neos :)
Jan 09 13:35:14 <abraxa_> yeah, seriously
Jan 09 13:36:21 <Ainulindale> No I'm trying to call the car wreck which has my car
Jan 09 13:36:33 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: What I'd like to discuss is how to fully integrate into a contact app
Jan 09 13:36:39 <Ainulindale> A step by step procedure to use the APIs
Jan 09 13:36:47 <Ainulindale> Because it's quite atypic wrt the rest of frameworkd
Jan 09 13:37:00 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: My bug fix is a small fix in the cvs backend wrt \n by the way
Jan 09 13:38:10 <abraxa_> What exactly is the cvs backend you speak of?
Jan 09 13:40:24 <Ainulindale> csv
Jan 09 13:40:25 <Ainulindale> sorry
Jan 09 13:40:45 <abraxa_> oh okay
Jan 09 13:41:26 <abraxa_> Are you having a local copy of it then or are your changes tracked in the SHR repo?
Jan 09 13:41:39 <Ainulindale> FSO repo
Jan 09 13:41:44 <Ainulindale> Commited yesterday
Jan 09 13:42:16 <abraxa_> okies, so it'll suffice to merge that with my local changes then, good
Jan 09 13:42:47 <abraxa_> Well, it makes me happy to hear you spent time on it :)
Jan 09 13:43:35 <abraxa_> You said the API is different from the rest of FSO
Jan 09 13:43:44 <abraxa_> Do you suggest it should change?
Jan 09 13:46:33 <Ainulindale> That's not my place to say :-)
Jan 09 13:46:42 <Ainulindale> But two things
Jan 09 13:46:56 <Ainulindale> First, the queries
Jan 09 13:47:02 <Ainulindale> It's constructing an object and it's not usual
Jan 09 13:47:31 <Ainulindale> Then I think it should be built to differentiate local & remote contact for queries
Jan 09 13:47:39 <Ainulindale> ANd build an inner db for local contacts & messages
Jan 09 13:47:44 <Ainulindale> (type SQL)
Jan 09 13:48:11 <abraxa_> What would the purpose of that separation be?
Jan 09 13:49:22 <Ainulindale> Doing remote & local queries
Jan 09 13:49:32 <Ainulindale> That's just a suggestion not a must have to me
Jan 09 13:49:56 <abraxa_> Well, I'm trying to figure out what advantages that would bring to the user :)
Jan 09 13:50:07 <Ainulindale> Being able to make a query that would not last ages?
Jan 09 13:50:08 <abraxa_> Got a use case in mind by chance?
Jan 09 13:50:17 * stefan_schmidt is happy seeing abraxa_ and Ainulindale finally talking about opimd
Jan 09 13:50:18 <Ainulindale> Let say I have a LDAP backend
Jan 09 13:50:25 <Ainulindale> And let say I'm looking for a contact
Jan 09 13:50:29 <Ainulindale> My LDAP is 10K+ contacts
Jan 09 13:50:29 <abraxa_> Hehe Stefan
Jan 09 13:50:31 <Ainulindale> It'll take time
Jan 09 13:50:37 * mrmoku thinks not just stefan_schmidt 
Jan 09 13:50:51 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: Gotcha
Jan 09 13:51:07 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: However, that's the reason I made the result sets dynamic
Jan 09 13:51:49 <abraxa_> Ideally, the GUI would update the list of results as the entries of the result set are determined
Jan 09 13:52:28 <abraxa_> So in this scenario the local contacts would appear virtually immediately while the results from the LDAP source appear later
Jan 09 13:52:56 <stefan_schmidt> abraxa_: btw, did you see Ptitjes mail about opimd? Good stuff inside: http://www.mail-archive.com/smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org/msg00200.html
Jan 09 13:53:13 <stefan_schmidt> abraxa_: Don't want to overload you, just a pointer
Jan 09 13:53:34 <abraxa_> stefan_schmidt: I actually didn't see it, thanks
Jan 09 13:57:11 <kd8ikt> ew nice i like the latest fso image
Jan 09 13:57:19 <kd8ikt> illume+zhone
Jan 09 14:03:31 <kd8ikt> ugh dunno why it has gpsd installed on the image instead of fso-gpsd
Jan 09 14:06:31 <stefan_schmidt> kd8ikt: known problem, we work on a solution
Jan 09 14:07:35 <kd8ikt> the startup script for fso-gpsd looks b0rked aswell
Jan 09 14:16:26 <dos1> paroli is funny
Jan 09 14:16:38 <dos1> i've just installed it on shr
Jan 09 14:19:54 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r07f7f090e8e8 10/fsod/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Add separate debug_option group. Now fsod requires vala-0.5.4. (Thanks playya)
Jan 09 14:19:59 <dos1> it's crashing very often :D
Jan 09 14:22:53 <stefan_schmidt> kd8ikt: just fixed some minutes ago :)
Jan 09 14:25:39 <kd8ikt> cool when will a new image be ready?
Jan 09 14:26:04 <kd8ikt> then again i just got done fixing and installing a few things 
Jan 09 14:26:57 <stefan_schmidt> kd8ikt: No idea at what point in time new images are created for fso-testing. Better ask rwhitby 
Jan 09 14:27:24 <kd8ikt> gotcha
Jan 09 14:27:59 <stefan_schmidt> kd8ikt: Problem is still that gpsd is in the image and not fso-gpsd, makes not much sense without having this fixed
Jan 09 14:28:06 <stefan_schmidt> hi mickeyl 
Jan 09 14:28:36 <mickeyl> heya
Jan 09 14:30:07 <kd8ikt> failed to rename //usr/lib/opkg/status.tmp to //usr/lib/opkg/status: No such file or directory?
Jan 09 14:30:43 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Any plan about sending your virtual/gpsd question to oe-devel? Or at least having some workaround to get it in our image again?
Jan 09 14:31:07 <stefan_schmidt> kd8ikt: Same here. It works tho. Tick, opkg maintainer, knows about it and works on it.
Jan 09 14:31:09 <mickeyl> what happens these days when you RDEPEND on fso-gspd?
Jan 09 14:31:18 <stefan_schmidt> See mail on one om list from today or yesterday
Jan 09 14:31:34 <mickeyl> since fso-gpsd is clearly listed as DEPENDS in fso-gspd, i wonder how it can be left out
Jan 09 14:31:35 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Don't we do this already?
Jan 09 14:31:39 <mickeyl> we do
Jan 09 14:31:45 <mickeyl> that's why i'm puzzled that it doesn't work
Jan 09 14:32:02 <stefan_schmidt> I get an error like conflicts with []
Jan 09 14:32:41 <kd8ikt> yeah i'd think frameworkd would have depends fso-gpsd
Jan 09 14:32:52 <mickeyl> no, frameworkd doesn't depend on it
Jan 09 14:32:55 <mickeyl> but task-fso-compliance does
Jan 09 14:33:04 <mickeyl> that's why i don't understand that it doesn't land in the image
Jan 09 14:33:05 <kd8ikt> yea thats kinda what i meant
Jan 09 14:33:12 <stefan_schmidt> Ah, and .28 builds here only without moko-autorev. With autorev it always fails on the patches. Build from scratch
Jan 09 14:33:49 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Well it seems that it conflicts with gpsd as this one _lands_ in the image
Jan 09 14:34:11 <stefan_schmidt> But I miss understanding of the bitbake/oe magic how this is handled
Jan 09 14:35:42 <mickeyl> right
Jan 09 14:35:46 <mickeyl> RCONFLICTS_PN
Jan 09 14:36:05 <mickeyl> remove that and try again
Jan 09 14:36:15 <mickeyl> that way we might get both and disable one in our postprocess
Jan 09 14:36:48 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Where is this rconflits?
Jan 09 14:36:55 <mickeyl> at tthe boom of fso-gpsd
Jan 09 14:37:02 <mickeyl> err, wireless keyboards...
Jan 09 14:37:03 <mickeyl> at the bottom
Jan 09 14:37:17 <stefan_schmidt> ah, now I see it
Jan 09 14:37:19 <stefan_schmidt> will try
Jan 09 14:37:44 <stefan_schmidt> btw, bt works as far as powering up, scaninng and finding other devices with .28, ok for us so.
Jan 09 14:38:06 <mickeyl> ok, one concern less
Jan 09 14:38:07 <stefan_schmidt> Once shoragan has done the accel test I send out out the report to om-kernel
Jan 09 14:38:10 <mickeyl> right
Jan 09 14:38:21 <mickeyl> i will now add wmiconfig handling to odeviced
Jan 09 14:38:43 <mickeyl> [wlan]
Jan 09 14:39:36 <stefan_schmidt> To disbale wakeup?
Jan 09 14:42:43 <mickeyl> to get the maximum powerdown until we're actually using the wakeup. in consequence, disabling wakeups for now
Jan 09 14:46:46 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: sounds good
Jan 09 14:47:06 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: With the conflicts removed it shows up in tmp/rootfs/usr/sbin/ :)
Jan 09 14:47:23 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Will we break other images this way or it is sane to commit?
Jan 09 14:47:45 <mickeyl> that should be ok for now
Jan 09 14:49:22 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: ok, I test it on the device and commit with a note then
Jan 09 15:04:21 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: ok, it is in the image again. *phew*
Jan 09 15:05:13 <mickeyl> :)
Jan 09 15:07:28 <stefan_schmidt> pushed
Jan 09 15:08:04 <stefan_schmidt> Once the kernel is small again we can give out images to people to test
Jan 09 15:11:28 <mickeyl> yep
Jan 09 15:12:20 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r59855d9afbcf 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/powercontrol_neo.py: odeviced: powercontrol_neo: use wmiconfig to enable/disable wlan0
Jan 09 15:13:00 <Sargun_screen> mickeyl: I think you need a ticketing system to managey your heap queue, and then publicize the ticketing system, and it'l be so complex people will have to make a mailing list around it, and then the mailing list with be flooded by people critizing the list, and then they'll be posts criticizing the people criticizing the list.
Jan 09 15:13:43 <mickeyl> heh
Jan 09 15:13:46 <mickeyl> sounds like a good strategy
Jan 09 15:14:10 <AntonTakk> sounds like the help desk system where I work
Jan 09 15:14:31 <Kensan> nah, let's give mickey some more caffeine
Jan 09 15:14:36 <Kensan> *g*
Jan 09 15:15:23 <mickeyl> abraxa_: did you sort your git problems out?
Jan 09 15:15:29 <mickeyl> abraxa_: happy new year, btw.
Jan 09 15:15:31 <AntonTakk> i like simple orginizational methods: vertically, by date  :)
Jan 09 15:51:43 <Tuju> http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/ why there is not freerunner?
Jan 09 15:53:53 <dos1> Tuju: images for gta02 are in http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/
Jan 09 15:55:04 <Tuju> dos1: and gta02 is same as Freerunner, right?
Jan 09 15:55:23 <dos1> Tuju: yep
Jan 09 15:55:54 <Tuju> I don't understand why to make already a new and messy topic more confusing by putting them into neo1973 dir.
Jan 09 15:56:08 <dos1> gta01 is neo1973, but "neo1973" arch is often representing both gta01 and gta02
Jan 09 15:56:41 <dos1> gta01 -> apps for neo1973
Jan 09 15:56:41 <dos1> gta02 -> apps for neo freerunner
Jan 09 15:56:41 <dos1> neo1973 -> apps for both neo1973 and neo freerunner
Jan 09 15:56:44 <Tuju> dos1: ack. which is anything else than self-explanatory.
Jan 09 15:57:05 <dos1> that notation is in kernel too afaik
Jan 09 15:57:14 <dos1> in /sysfs :P
Jan 09 15:57:26 <Tuju> dos1: i can understand it, but it's still confusing.
Jan 09 15:57:44 <Tuju> especially when there no file that would tell what the heck are those modules files.
Jan 09 15:57:58 <dos1> Tuju: kernel modules
Jan 09 15:58:12 <Tuju> or anything simply telling: If you have this device, this is the release string and these are the files for it.
Jan 09 15:58:16 <dos1> look at version - it's logical i think
Jan 09 15:58:50 <Tuju> dos1: last time i updated, i spent something like two hours with that dir, eventually trial n error what worked and based on dates of those files.
Jan 09 16:00:14 <Tuju> and it's more confusing that once you think that those versions are logical, you put them into phone and it doesn't boot - you start questioning your logic.
Jan 09 16:00:41 <yoyo> plizzz remove 2.6.28 from distro for gta01 it is killing my neo :...
Jan 09 16:00:52 <Tuju> I don't see *why* it could not be done more clear way as it's most likely not costing that much of time.
Jan 09 16:01:24 <dos1> yoyo: there is No 2.6.28
Jan 09 16:03:15 <Kensan> Tuju: I guess nobody bothered thus far?
Jan 09 16:03:40 <Tuju> Kensan: yep, i can't figure the other reason either.
Jan 09 16:04:41 <Kensan> Tuju: you could open a ticket on the shr-tracker
Jan 09 16:07:25 <Tuju> Kensan: crossed my mind.
Jan 09 16:07:45 <Tuju> It probably gets killed by lot of smartassing.
Jan 09 16:14:17 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: got a debug board? You can get a serial console with it and say exactly why the kernel doesn't work. Or you may try to enable debugging output on FB console.
Jan 09 16:14:56 <yoyo> I don't have debug board :/ 
Jan 09 16:15:20 <yoyo> I trayd to boot kernel in FB but no succes
Jan 09 16:17:03 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: how can I make neo to put str to fb ?
Jan 09 16:17:57 <yoyo> "console=tty0" is not working :/
Jan 09 16:19:51 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: you should append loglevel=8 console=tty0
Jan 09 16:20:01 <yoyo> ok I will try
Jan 09 16:20:04 <yoyo> ose moment
Jan 09 16:20:10 <yoyo> one monent 
Jan 09 16:20:14 <yoyo> ee
Jan 09 16:20:15 <yoyo> sec
Jan 09 16:40:31 <mickeyl> Sup3rkiddo: you ever worked with a signal w/ a{sv} as vala dbus client?
Jan 09 16:43:18 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, yeah.. Hashmap
Jan 09 16:43:21 <Sup3rkiddo> just a sec
Jan 09 16:44:15 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=openmoko-gsoc2008.git;a=blob;f=fsod/src/subsystems/Device/info/info.vala;h=0855991db2d0dba56bda2cf1cb13ea1ffb6dd040;hb=07f7f090e8e82e12b4b52ea7ae7702f7bb06c8c9
Jan 09 16:44:36 <Sup3rkiddo> oh.. wait... its a{ss}.. :/
Jan 09 16:44:45 <mickeyl> and it's not a signal
Jan 09 16:44:52 <Sup3rkiddo> Sup3rkiddo, you will have to use GValue
Jan 09 16:44:54 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: it may be similar in C
Jan 09 16:45:01 <mickeyl> i have problems with signals being triggered
Jan 09 16:45:20 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: ptitjes worked on that, maybe he could help you
Jan 09 16:45:29 <mickeyl> yeah
Jan 09 16:45:40 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, doh.. sorry :P,
Jan 09 16:45:57 <mickeyl> i'm not even having problems unpacking the value, but the signature seems not to be correct, since runtime isn't calling my handler
Jan 09 16:46:01 <mickeyl> Sup3rkiddo: np :)=
Jan 09 16:46:16 <mickeyl> ah
Jan 09 16:46:18 * mickeyl new idea
Jan 09 16:47:22 <mickeyl> hmm, no
Jan 09 16:47:31 <mickeyl> how is a variant transported via Vala?
Jan 09 16:47:36 <mickeyl> "Value?" ?
Jan 09 16:47:54 <Sup3rkiddo> yeah
Jan 09 16:48:00 <mickeyl> hmm
Jan 09 16:48:14 <mickeyl> then HashTable<string,Value?> should be a{sv}
Jan 09 16:48:20 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, yes
Jan 09 16:48:22 <mickeyl> still it doesn't get called :/
Jan 09 16:48:30 <Sup3rkiddo> hm
Jan 09 16:49:00 <Sup3rkiddo> the signal?.. maybe its fixed in 0.5.4.. i had some issues with the older ones
Jan 09 16:49:18 <mickeyl>         dbus_g_object_register_marshaller (g_cclosure_user_marshal_VOID__BOXED, G_TYPE_NONE, G_TYPE_HASH_TABLE, G_TYPE_INVALID);
Jan 09 16:49:18 <mickeyl>         dbus_g_proxy_add_signal (obj, "Test", G_TYPE_HASH_TABLE, G_TYPE_INVALID);
Jan 09 16:49:18 <mickeyl>         dbus_g_proxy_connect_signal (obj, signal_name, handler, data, NULL);
Jan 09 16:49:22 <mickeyl> that looks about ok
Jan 09 16:53:35 <bumbl> wow - work being done on opimd
Jan 09 16:53:37 <Sup3rkiddo> hmm.. i remember a mailing list thread
Jan 09 16:53:46 <Sup3rkiddo> on a{sv{
Jan 09 16:58:57 <mickeyl> ya, read all that
Jan 09 16:59:08 <mickeyl> and it seems to work for methods
Jan 09 16:59:29 <mickeyl> *shrug* need to come back to that later
Jan 09 17:05:20 <dolf1074> raster: you will make a scale label? (A label that stretch its inner text so it fills the while place)
Jan 09 17:11:38 <abraxa_> mickey_away: I didn't yet sort the git stuff out, I'll try to have a look again tonight - and a belated happy new year to you, too :)
Jan 09 17:13:27 <bumbl> hu
Jan 09 17:13:32 <bumbl> abraxa_ lives
Jan 09 17:13:41 <bumbl> hi abraxa_ and a happy new year to you
Jan 09 17:14:01 <abraxa_> Thanks, same to you, too
Jan 09 17:27:30 <bumbl> anyone here who also has segfaults wit
Jan 09 17:27:37 <bumbl> h the latest py elm
Jan 09 17:27:38 <bumbl> ?
Jan 09 17:35:38 <dos1> bumbl: yep, i have
Jan 09 17:36:01 <dos1> bumbl: with test.py with every button with is supposed to work
Jan 09 17:36:34 <dos1> bumbl: with shr-settings  randomly with opening new window - sometimes work, sometimes not
Jan 09 17:38:15 <bumbl> dos1: yes i am talking about test.py
Jan 09 17:38:40 <dos1> bumbl: but hiciu don't have it on pc with latest e
Jan 09 17:40:03 <bumbl> dos1: updated e half an hour before
Jan 09 17:40:24 <dos1> newest shr-unstable seems to be really stable - previously there was non-stop vibrating bug, know i don't see any :)
Jan 09 17:40:52 <Hire> what?
Jan 09 17:40:56 <Hire> shr STABLE?
Jan 09 17:41:00 <Hire> are you crazy?
Jan 09 17:41:05 <bumbl> dos1: so hiciu can't have a more up to date e than i
Jan 09 17:41:24 <dos1> bumbl: he said it 2 days ago i think
Jan 09 17:41:48 <dos1> i have segfaults on freerunner with shr-unstable
Jan 09 17:42:55 <dos1> Hire: yes, shr-unstable is stable enough to every day use for me
Jan 09 17:43:17 <Hire> shr is will be never stable :x
Jan 09 17:43:31 <dcordes> sounds like a reasonable base for going to OE with the shr metadata ;P
Jan 09 17:43:35 <Hire> because ainulindale finds fun to bork shr :x
Jan 09 17:44:03 <bumbl> for everyday use it lacks a calender and a sqlite backend
Jan 09 17:44:10 <dos1> Hire: Stable Hybrid Release ;D
Jan 09 17:44:31 <Hire> i know
Jan 09 17:44:35 <Hire> but we have ainulindale
Jan 09 17:44:51 <Ainulindale> Hire: I'm not in the mood.
Jan 09 17:45:33 <toggles_w> me neither, i have a headache...
Jan 09 17:45:37 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: Because of the crash?
Jan 09 17:45:37 <dos1> bumbl: hmm, sure, but in my nokia i have all phone memory occured, so FR without sql backend doesn't make different for me ;D
Jan 09 17:45:50 <Ainulindale> abraxa_: Yeah, a bit.
Jan 09 17:46:20 <Hire> sorry dude
Jan 09 17:46:32 <abraxa_> Ainulindale: The car isn't repairable?
Jan 09 17:47:11 <Ainulindale> No idea
Jan 09 17:47:13 <bumbl> Ainulindale: you had a crash? are you well?
Jan 09 17:47:20 <bumbl> i hope at least
Jan 09 17:47:24 <Ainulindale> That will depend on the fact that my company insurance will cover me or not
Jan 09 17:47:34 <Ainulindale> Yeah, I wasn't harmed
Jan 09 17:47:41 <Ainulindale> But I'm a bit fuzzy around the edge
Jan 09 17:47:46 <Ainulindale> +s
Jan 09 17:48:13 <Hire> i am sorry for that
Jan 09 17:48:42 <Hire> however I have a lupo vw with some issue on motor and traction 
Jan 09 17:48:56 <Hire> and an alfa 75 2.0 TS that makes me mad :)
Jan 09 17:48:59 <bumbl> toggles_w: you don't get a headache if you don't fight with kangaroos and let the win
Jan 09 17:49:11 <Hire> and it costs too much every year ..
Jan 09 17:50:44 <bumbl> ancient austrian rule
Jan 09 17:58:50 <yoyo> comeone dlike openstreetmaps updater?
Jan 09 17:59:00 <yoyo> for tangegps ?
Jan 09 17:59:09 <yoyo> someone
Jan 09 17:59:25 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: have you managed to get any information from tty0 with andy-tracking?
Jan 09 18:00:01 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: I turn on update map it running 
Jan 09 18:00:29 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: I will turn it off and try tty0
Jan 09 18:01:10 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: you mean you're updating OSM and waiting for a completion. After that you'll try to increase loglevel as i suggested and boot 2.6.28 again, yes?
Jan 09 18:01:49 <yoyo> yes
Jan 09 18:02:08 <toggles_w> bumblL ;-)
Jan 09 18:10:02 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: yyy I don't know how to example what happend
Jan 09 18:10:47 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: I turn neo in menu boot mode; minicom to it and
Jan 09 18:11:00 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} loglevel=8 console=tty0; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 ${sd_image_name}; bootm 0x32000000
Jan 09 18:11:05 <yoyo> correct?
Jan 09 18:11:13 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: i'm afraid sometimes it'd be easier to me to understand your polish than your english :) (kidding)
Jan 09 18:11:37 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: sorry for my spelling
Jan 09 18:11:40 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: and what are bootargs_base
Jan 09 18:12:19 <yoyo> how to chk it?
Jan 09 18:13:00 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: printenv probably
Jan 09 18:14:15 <yoyo> ok add bootargs_base remove 
Jan 09 18:14:48 <yoyo> I start neo using: setenv bootargs loglevel=8 console=tty0; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 ${sd_image_name}; bootm 0x32000000
Jan 09 18:15:20 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: it won't work, i'm afraid. Some critical kernel boot arguments are missing.
Jan 09 18:15:21 <yoyo> I have kernel as uimage and uImage.bin on first fat partition on none hc sd card
Jan 09 18:15:51 <yoyo> bootargs_base=rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock4 console=null
Jan 09 18:16:02 <yoyo> I thing I shoud remove it
Jan 09 18:16:10 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: remove console=null from there.
Jan 09 18:17:31 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: setenv bootargs rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock4 loglevel=8 console=tty0; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 ${sd_image_name}; bootm 0x32000000
Jan 09 18:17:59 <yoyo> http://pastebin.com/d2fd01bf1 
Jan 09 18:18:32 <yoyo> no effects on neo screen menu on screen and phon not responding
Jan 09 18:19:12 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: Have you modified some variable needed to make u-boot work with large kernels?
Jan 09 18:20:22 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: which one ?
Jan 09 18:20:54 <yoyo> http://pastebin.com/d20742959
Jan 09 18:22:03 <PaulFertser_> setenv bootcmd setenv bootargs \${bootargs_base} \${mtdparts}\; nand
Jan 09 18:22:03 <PaulFertser_> read.e 0x32000000 kernel 0x300000\; bootm 0x32000000
Jan 09 18:22:04 <PaulFertser_> saveenv 
Jan 09 18:22:12 <PaulFertser_> Sorry
Jan 09 18:22:26 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: look here http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-f528198
Jan 09 18:29:19 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: you'd look in u-boot load whether ext2load needs an additional parameter to load a big kernel, i think. At least nand read.e needs it.
Jan 09 18:29:23 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: setenv bootcmd setenv bootargs \${bootargs_base} \${mtdparts}\; nand read.e 0x32000000 kernel 0x300000\; bootm 0x32000000 (correct?)
Jan 09 18:29:40 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: are you going to boot the kernel from nand or from SD?
Jan 09 18:29:46 <yoyo> sd
Jan 09 18:31:47 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: look at u-boot docs. I'm not sure ext2load will work with big kernel out-of-the box. nand read.e doesn't for some reason. It might be the case with ext2load as well.
Jan 09 18:32:33 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: or doesn't bother. Your http://pastebin.com/d2fd01bf1 shows that you can actually read a full kernel.
Jan 09 18:33:11 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: But! your bootargs are lacking mtdparts.
Jan 09 18:34:08 <yoyo> brb
Jan 09 18:42:56 <yoyo> ok present
Jan 09 18:45:20 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: on wiki "Booting_from_SD" is note about neo1973 but it says about problem with sdhc not about larger kernel file then 2mb
Jan 09 18:46:10 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: yes, it seem to be a problem only for nand, i agree
Jan 09 18:49:12 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: setenv bootargs loglevel=8 console=tty0; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 uImage; bootm 0x32000000 (correct?)
Jan 09 18:51:23 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: correct my if I wrong; if somthing will by wrong u-boot will by unable to verifi checksum 
Jan 09 18:51:25 <yoyo> yes?
Jan 09 19:01:14 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: i think so
Jan 09 19:01:47 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: one more time error
Jan 09 19:02:08 <yoyo> chk sum .... ok 
Jan 09 19:02:21 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: are you sure that you boot the kernel with exactly correct bootargs, including rootfs, mtdparts etc?
Jan 09 19:03:36 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: http://pastebin.com/d166772b5
Jan 09 19:03:52 <yoyo> menu on neo not responding 
Jan 09 19:04:30 <yoyo> I think it boots (starts) but get some critical error
Jan 09 19:04:46 <yoyo> kernel 2.6.28 an gta01 not working
Jan 09 19:05:12 <PaulFertser_> yoyo: your bootargs seem to be wrong. At least they're wrong in the link you gave me.
Jan 09 19:05:13 <yoyo> I think it should be remove from repo for gta01 
Jan 09 19:06:07 <yoyo> pastebin.com hange fiew chars it look like: #setenv bootargs loglevel=8 console=tty0; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 uImage; bootm 0x32000000
Jan 09 19:09:33 <yoyo> PaulFertser_: ok what about #setenv bootargs rootfstype=ext2 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 loglevel=8 console=tty0; rootdelay=5 ; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 uImage; bootm 0x32000000
Jan 09 19:09:35 <PaulFertser> yoyo: exactly this "bootargs loglevel=8 console=tty0" are wrong. They lack rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock4 mtdparts=neo1973-nand:0x00040000(u-boot),0x00004000(u-boot_env),0x00200000(kernel),0x000a0000(splash),0x03d1c000(rootfs)
Jan 09 19:10:26 <PaulFertser> yoyo: you need mtdparts as well, if you want to mount root on NAND.
Jan 09 19:10:44 <yoyo> I don't want to
Jan 09 19:10:57 <PaulFertser> Oh, i see now.
Jan 09 19:11:16 <yoyo> on sd I have x2 partitions p1 boot (fat) p2 rootfs (ext2)
Jan 09 19:11:40 <PaulFertser> So, let's assume you did all could without dboard and wait for a report from another gta01 owner.
Jan 09 19:13:13 <yoyo> I thing I'm the last gta01 user :P
Jan 09 19:17:10 <PaulFertser> It's very strange you can't get any kernel messages on FB though... Something might have been broken along the development. I think you can ask mwester to test andy-tracking on his GTA01 (he has a dboard) but be careful, he can get very angry as he doesn't like andy-tracking ;)
Jan 09 19:18:35 <yoyo> PaulFertser: I need translator to talk with someone. you see by your salfe that it is difficult to understand what I'm writing about :/
Jan 09 19:19:11 <PaulFertser> yoyo: it's getting better. I think you shouldn't be too shy about it.
Jan 09 19:20:21 <yoyo> PaulFertser: pant "fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 uimage" is reading image from fat from mmc partition 1 into ram on address  3200000032000000
Jan 09 19:20:23 <yoyo> yes?
Jan 09 19:21:01 <yoyo> PaulFertser: maybe  I have to old u-boot ?
Jan 09 19:21:26 <yoyo> it is from nov 15 2008 
Jan 09 19:21:40 <PaulFertser> Do you? But the kernel is read and verified ok... But i've read that many strange things can happen with an old u-boot.
Jan 09 19:22:19 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-monitord * raf483ebeb700 10/src/ (consts.vala obj.vala): damn signal not getting called :/
Jan 09 19:25:07 <yoyo> mwester: ping
Jan 09 19:31:48 <yoyo> PaulFertser: for test I replace uimage file from 2.6.28 to 2.6.24 using same cmd line to start it start without any problems
Jan 09 19:44:44 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf78a6d92cf8c 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
Jan 09 19:44:44 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] resend the DSP command on every call setup.
Jan 09 19:44:44 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: NOTE: I'm not convinced and there is no evidence that this is necessary,
Jan 09 19:44:44 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: but I'm sick of discussing this over and over again, hence it goes in.
Jan 09 19:44:45 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: This closes #253 for good.
Jan 09 19:46:07 <bumbl> mickeyl: this might raise the discussion why you put in useless stuff
Jan 09 19:46:21 <mickeyl> i don't care
Jan 09 19:46:38 <mickeyl> it's in and stays in. period
Jan 09 19:47:11 <dos1> at last
Jan 09 19:47:25 <mickeyl> if it takes a placebo to make guys feel good, well
Jan 09 19:47:30 <mickeyl> who am i to reject that
Jan 09 19:47:37 <mickeyl> and honestly... i don't know better anyways
Jan 09 19:47:53 <mickeyl> ti calypso is already full of so many ugly things
Jan 09 19:47:59 <mickeyl> one more doesn't hurt 
Jan 09 19:48:10 * mickeyl hugs his clean generic modem
Jan 09 19:48:39 <dos1> today i was calling to my freerunner from home phone, and i went to another room
Jan 09 19:49:26 <dos1> without patch to resending DSP command on every call setup, echo was very strong - at full volume
Jan 09 19:49:37 <dos1> i didn't know that this is THAT strong! :x
Jan 09 19:49:45 <dos1> then i applied patch
Jan 09 19:50:13 <dos1> and now there is no echo, even quiet - i didn't hear
Jan 09 19:54:25 <bumbl> mickeyl: so let's hope that you will find a sane 3.75g modem for gta04 (if om is still in bussiness then)
Jan 09 19:54:49 <mickeyl> hehe
Jan 09 19:54:50 <mickeyl> agreed
Jan 09 19:54:52 <eolson> yeah, with echo line added to fso4 (gta01) I've had no echo and use it as my main phone since Thanksgiving :)
Jan 09 19:55:18 <mickeyl> dos1: glad to hear
Jan 09 19:55:34 <mickeyl> i'm not against the dsp command
Jan 09 19:55:41 <mickeyl> i'm just against sending it when it is not necessary
Jan 09 19:55:45 <mickeyl> i.e. repeatedly
Jan 09 19:55:56 <mickeyl> but again... it's completely unclear what's necessary on this br0ken modem
Jan 09 19:56:01 <mickeyl> *shrug*
Jan 09 19:56:15 <dos1> maybe resending it on every call is not necessary
Jan 09 19:57:17 <dos1> but it's definitive: sending it only on init is not enough
Jan 09 19:57:25 <lindi-> dos1: resending it on every received call is necessary here
Jan 09 19:57:54 <dos1> lindi-: for me too, but maybe there is other option - we don't know ;)
Jan 09 19:58:17 <lindi-> mickeyl: btw, any comments on http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-January/000803.html?
Jan 09 19:59:03 <bumbl> mickeyl: can't this be fixed in firmware?
Jan 09 19:59:17 <bumbl> it looks like a firmware bug to me at last
Jan 09 19:59:21 <mickeyl> no idea
Jan 09 19:59:24 <mickeyl> unlikely
Jan 09 19:59:26 <mickeyl> this is dsp
Jan 09 19:59:29 <mickeyl> no source for that
Jan 09 19:59:47 <mickeyl> lindi: try data = process_introspection_data( obj.Introspect(), dbus_interface="org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable" )
Jan 09 20:00:39 <lindi-> mickeyl: instead of data = process_introspection_data( obj.Introspect() )?
Jan 09 20:01:55 <mickeyl> ya
Jan 09 20:02:02 <lindi-> there are two occurences, i change both
Jan 09 20:02:28 <mickeyl> newer dbus doesn't allow calling methods on objects without specifying the interface
Jan 09 20:03:09 <lindi-> $ sudo bin/mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.frameworkd 2>&1 | nc paste.dyndns.org 1234
Jan 09 20:03:13 <lindi-> http://rafb.net/p/iktEkV80.html
Jan 09 20:03:32 <lindi-> mickeyl: seems to still fail with AccessDenied
Jan 09 20:03:39 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf734551d4231 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: 
Jan 09 20:03:39 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: only reinit UnsolicitedCommand channel.
Jan 09 20:03:39 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: Kill reenabling timer if we're suspending before the timer hits.
Jan 09 20:04:05 <mickeyl> lindi-: bummer. need to poke some holes in your dbus security setup then
Jan 09 20:04:21 <mickeyl> please compare with the configuration in OE
Jan 09 20:04:56 <mickeyl> might try with d-feet first
Jan 09 20:05:02 <mickeyl> to check whether it's not a problem in mdbus
Jan 09 20:05:06 <lindi-> i finally managed to compile om2008.12 and i have that in flash, so i'll diff /etc/dbus-1 against
Jan 09 20:07:07 <lindi-> hmm, d-feet wants 'After this operation, 66.8MB of additional disk space will be used.'
Jan 09 20:10:55 <lindi-> but no problem, i can remove it later so let's give it a try..
Jan 09 20:12:48 <bumbl> yeah i killed firefox once again
Jan 09 20:20:51 <dos1> mian
Jan 09 20:21:02 <lindi-> mickey|dinner: d-feet looks like an interesting program, thanks for the tip!
Jan 09 20:24:42 <Sargun> mickey|dinner, how deep am I in your queue? 
Jan 09 20:25:27 <lindi-> :)
Jan 09 20:32:11 <PaulFertser> mickey|dinner: Are you sure that "sending reinit in 5 seconds.." and "timeout_add_seconds( 10," match?
Jan 09 21:09:44 <lindi-> mickey|dinner: anyways, with d-feet i can see and call dbus methods. the original issue still stands though, how do I prepare the GSM for suspend without using anything else but ogsmd?
Jan 09 21:16:14 <dos1> brb
Jan 09 21:22:56 <johnsu01> hm, trying to build SHR, I'm getting a lot of messages like fatal: failed to unpack tree object d3b1136d29f88fa7bfcbedb6a195724e071cad77
Jan 09 21:22:59 <johnsu01> sigh
Jan 09 21:23:08 <johnsu01> I meant that for #openmoko, sorry.
Jan 09 21:34:58 <mirko> hey
Jan 09 21:35:09 <mirko-paroli> hehe hi mirko :)
Jan 09 21:35:23 <mirko> I'm still having problems with the fso-framework and pyyaml :/ - http://pastebin.ca/1304613
Jan 09 21:35:31 <mirko> could anybody have a look on it?
Jan 09 21:35:37 <mirko> hey mirko-paroli :)
Jan 09 21:36:00 <mirko-paroli> I'll minimize the confusion and be rather idling for the time being :)
Jan 09 21:36:18 <mirko-paroli> frustrated from my endevours in e's configuration jungle
Jan 09 21:38:58 <mirko> i read a part of your conversation with raster 
Jan 09 22:36:12 <Dave> raster, awaken.
Jan 09 22:42:25 * raster rises from the ashes
Jan 09 22:49:11 <Dave> :D
Jan 09 22:49:24 <Dave> Raster, thumb keyboards? available? where?
Jan 09 22:49:52 <raster> ???
Jan 09 22:50:00 <raster> thumb kbd?
Jan 09 22:50:05 <Dave> yeah read in #openmoko
Jan 09 22:50:14 <Dave> we were discussing the possibility of it
Jan 09 22:50:14 <yoyo> new line in elementary.Label is <CR>?
Jan 09 22:50:33 <raster> <br>
Jan 09 22:52:15 <raster> oh must be far back somewhere
Jan 09 22:52:25 <Dave> no
Jan 09 22:52:44 <Dave> anyhoo, holycow was interested in purchasing a thumb keyboard (like what phones have, I guess), and hooking it up
Jan 09 22:52:49 <raster> oh there
Jan 09 22:53:01 <raster> thumb kbd - again u mean like a twiddler?
Jan 09 22:53:07 <raster> oooh keypad
Jan 09 22:53:14 <raster> nupp
Jan 09 22:53:27 <Dave> twiddler?
Jan 09 22:53:27 <raster> just buy one of those usb numberpad-only kbds
Jan 09 22:53:29 <raster> :)
Jan 09 22:53:32 <raster> never mind
Jan 09 22:53:37 <Dave> numberpad-only keyboards? :P
Jan 09 22:53:38 <Dave> hehe
Jan 09 22:53:39 <raster> a bizarre keyboard that is 1 handed
Jan 09 22:53:45 <raster> yes
Jan 09 22:53:46 <Dave> oh hah
Jan 09 22:53:53 <Dave> yeah, I don't think that's what he meant :P
Jan 09 22:53:53 <raster> you can buy just the numberpad of a kbd as a usb-kbd
Jan 09 22:54:00 <raster> i knopw
Jan 09 22:54:02 <raster> but its close
Jan 09 22:54:03 <Dave> yeah I have two
Jan 09 22:54:06 <raster> asn easy to plug in
Jan 09 22:54:06 <raster> :)
Jan 09 22:54:15 <Dave> but I think he meant a small qwerty keyboard, like that phones have
Jan 09 22:54:39 <raster> pretty hard to find those
Jan 09 22:54:43 <raster> easier for a numberpad
Jan 09 22:54:52 <raster> u can get them at electronics places
Jan 09 22:54:56 <raster> they'd not small
Jan 09 22:55:00 <raster> they're
Jan 09 22:55:05 <raster> about the size of the bb
Jan 09 22:55:08 <Dave> right
Jan 09 22:55:15 <raster> ut generic
Jan 09 22:55:16 <raster> but
Jan 09 22:57:45 <PaulFertser> Dave: twiddler is an interesting concept. Accord keyboard. You've 5 fingers, and it's 2^5 possibilities. Their tests (looks good enough) showed that it's better than multi-tap.
Jan 09 22:58:38 <Dave> well, yes
Jan 09 22:58:49 <Dave> I guess it could be decent for some specialized usages
Jan 09 23:00:01 <PaulFertser> Dave: imagine you have an LCD integrated into glasses and it's snowy winter outside and you keep your hands deep in your pockets and chat on IRC ;)
Jan 09 23:06:46 <Dave> hah!
Jan 09 23:25:48 <uhsf> how to test/trigger the ringtone/vibration?
Jan 09 23:32:47 <Zorkman> uhsf: openvibe for the vibrator?
Jan 09 23:33:55 <PaulFertser> Zorkman: he wants to simulate incoming call to check the rules are correct
Jan 09 23:35:07 <Zorkman> in that case i can't see anything better than to actually call your freerunner...
Jan 09 23:36:13 <PaulFertser> Zorkman: exactly what i have suggested him in private. OTOH one can check the sources, spot the write signal, dbus-send it to oeventsd and so on... Not practical, esp. if doesn't want to do it himself ;)
Jan 09 23:39:13 <DocScrutinzrFlu> Zorkman: pull calypso with a acetylen-welder and connect to a terminal instead?
Jan 09 23:40:34 <DocScrutinzrFlu> to simulate calls i *really* do not need fscking calypso chipset
Jan 09 23:41:12 <Dave> :D
Jan 09 23:41:44 <Dave> I always like Joerg's sense of humor
Jan 09 23:42:15 <DocScrutinzrFlu> welcome, youre one of the few ;)
Jan 10 00:12:21 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-monitord * r6c46ef922b51 10/src/obj.vala: 
Jan 10 00:12:21 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: project on hold until signals with complex types work :/
Jan 10 00:12:21 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: See http://mail.gnome.org/archives/vala-list/2009-January/msg00033.html
Jan 10 00:17:07 <Ainulindale> mw| ?
Jan 10 00:17:09 <Ainulindale> git pull before push
Jan 10 00:17:13 <Ainulindale> that's why you can't push
Jan 10 00:27:47 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03root 07gsm0710muxd * r58b581a6a818 10/ (ChangeLog src/gsm0710muxd.c): 
Jan 10 00:27:47 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: Implement write buffering for the ptys
Jan 10 00:27:47 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: If the receiving side of the pty is slow, the kernel pty buffer (of 4096
Jan 10 00:27:47 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: bytes) overflows and an unreported lossage occurs. This can be seen when
Jan 10 00:27:49 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: receiving a large SIM phonebook with busy frameworkd.
Jan 10 00:31:07 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: you're a genius!
Jan 10 00:31:17 <mickeyl> at+copn now works
Jan 10 00:35:17 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07gsm0710muxd * r95151f9e2fe3 10/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): release as 0.9.2.2
Jan 10 00:36:35 <mickeyl> g'night
Jan 10 01:12:03 <gurugentoo> ooo qi is nice and zippy
Jan 10 01:25:06 <uhsf> qi is nice
Jan 10 02:01:09 <gurugentoo> anyone using fennec?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 10 02:59:56 2009