**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 12 02:59:56 2009 Mar 12 03:47:58 * bgat is away: sleep Mar 12 08:59:55 morning Mar 12 09:02:38 morning Mar 12 09:04:17 morning Mar 12 09:09:44 mrmoku Mar 12 09:10:09 morning Mar 12 09:10:22 spaetz_: you're odd :p Mar 12 09:11:27 napalm on FR ;D Mar 12 09:11:39 morning all Mar 12 09:12:36 deteriorated buffer-C on switching powersupplies are devastating Mar 12 09:13:54 DocScrutinizer: still thinking about powersupplies? ;) Mar 12 09:14:51 had a inspiring few pictures to look at last hour ;D Mar 12 09:24:17 spaetz_: yo :-) Mar 12 09:34:07 Ainulindale: ping Mar 12 09:35:53 PaulFert`: btw thinking about polyfuse and burning houses ;-) Mar 12 09:36:44 but usb power supplies don't nasty by definition :-/ Mar 12 09:36:47 The roof is on fire! Mar 12 09:36:58 mrmoku: I intended to write morning Mar 12 09:37:13 so it was a freudian slip of the tongue, err, hand Mar 12 09:37:39 * spaetz_ blames nick auto-completion :) Mar 12 09:38:01 do you have a completion for morning? Mar 12 09:38:19 unfortunately not :) Mar 12 09:38:29 DocScrutinizer: i've read that usb specs even allow to short any pin to any for any time. But really, polyfuse would still be good there. Imagine i attached some external cheap powersupply for charging usb devices. Mar 12 09:39:06 eeek, don't tell this to Andy! Mar 12 09:39:42 for gta03 i forced a polyfuse in there Mar 12 09:40:08 But people do that anyway. So, some suppressor won't hurt as well. Mar 12 09:40:35 (not gun silencer) Mar 12 09:41:01 suppressors (zorbs) only take uSec, then they blow Mar 12 09:42:39 Can they short the curcuit after blowing to protect it? Mar 12 09:42:50 tranzorbs are ok for static surges. don't help for any kind of broken supply Mar 12 09:43:25 (short) no defined behaviour for that case Mar 12 09:44:56 basically they help for a uSec of 10kV, but don't do any good for 1s of 20V Mar 12 09:45:51 mmh, why does bitbake complain about a missing package makeinfo Mar 12 09:46:06 there is no package like that on my ubuntu repositories Mar 12 09:46:30 DocScrutinizer: here they specify times and stuff how to choose polyfuse so it blows before shorted TVS becomes open: http://www.vishay.com/docs/88440/failurem.pdf Mar 12 09:47:06 ahh, texinfo on ubuntu Mar 12 09:47:08 spaetz_: it's from texinfo Mar 12 09:47:16 just found it, thanks Mar 12 09:47:35 spaetz_: :-) Mar 12 09:51:51 I understand that there is no way to ultimately protect any equipment from unknown threats, still we can come closer to it by choosing fast fuses appropriately, can't we? Mar 12 09:54:44 PaulFert`: it's a pity we don't have any fuse type fast enough to protect smd-TVS Mar 12 09:55:25 DocScrutinizer: you mean smd-TVS will become open before the fuse blows? Mar 12 09:56:37 still we need to take care about short of TVS, and about excessive AC component of Vusb blowing beads (shorted to GND via C, no zorb involved) Mar 12 09:56:38 Because if the smd-TVS fails, shorts, the fuse blows, no big deal: change the fuse and tvs. Mar 12 09:57:20 yup Mar 12 09:57:32 mmh, just loading those icons takes 0.7 seconds for shr-settings Mar 12 09:57:37 too slow Mar 12 09:57:57 ptitjes: pong Mar 12 09:58:10 and on repeat loading, still takes 0.5 sec Mar 12 09:59:20 Ainulindale: do I had the ophonekitd testing through frameworkd mocking thing on the gsoc wiki page ? Mar 12 10:00:28 DocScrutinizer: i hope you don't mind my questions, i'm just trying to understand a little bit more about EE sometimes :) Mar 12 10:00:54 PaulFert`: nah, welcome. Mar 12 10:02:36 ptitjes: s/had/add/ Mar 12 10:02:37 and yes Mar 12 10:03:03 wow! I'm not much awoke... Mar 12 10:03:42 Neither am I. Mar 12 10:04:10 Ainulindale: I'm currently writing the shr-is-great-what-misses-now email. I will it to you in a minute... Mar 12 10:04:17 s/it/send it/ Mar 12 10:04:17 ptitjes meant: Ainulindale: I'm currently wrsend iting the shr-is-great-what-misses-now email. I will it to you in a minute... Mar 12 10:04:30 :D Mar 12 10:04:37 ouch :-D Mar 12 10:04:38 no problem Mar 12 10:04:51 muhahaha Mar 12 10:05:03 meh! Mar 12 10:05:15 bzzbot: botsnack Mar 12 10:05:15 DocScrutinizer: thanks Mar 12 10:15:07 nick anttna_ Mar 12 10:23:26 sorry, but I really wonder... Mar 12 10:23:50 s\re\ re\ Mar 12 10:24:07 sorry, but I really wonder... Mar 12 10:24:37 s/.r/xx/ Mar 12 10:24:53 It's a really stupid regex Mar 12 10:24:58 test test Mar 12 10:25:11 s/st/sted/ Mar 12 10:25:13 CM_work meant: tested test Mar 12 10:25:27 You can only match the first :) Mar 12 10:25:34 no help on /help for that Mar 12 10:25:52 nope, you can do "g" Mar 12 10:26:00 s/e/x/g Mar 12 10:26:00 DocScrutinizer meant: nopx, you can do "g" Mar 12 10:26:00 Oh.. Mar 12 10:26:14 Great example.. :-P Mar 12 10:26:22 s/e/x/g Mar 12 10:26:22 CM_work meant: Grxat xxamplx.. :-P Mar 12 10:26:23 idiot me :) Mar 12 10:26:38 s/i/x/g Mar 12 10:26:39 DocScrutinizer meant: xdxot me :) Mar 12 10:27:14 Any official news of gta03 soon? Mar 12 10:27:28 nope, prolly not Mar 12 10:27:50 Ok. My GTA01 is still working well though :) Mar 12 10:28:05 great :D Mar 12 10:28:22 no buzz? Mar 12 10:30:01 Not enough to trouble me at least Mar 12 10:30:42 ptitjes: lunching with Genia today :-) Mar 12 10:30:53 (she came home this morning because she had to go to versailles) Mar 12 10:31:30 you lucky guy! Mar 12 10:31:40 Ainulindale: sent it! Mar 12 10:32:02 (got it) Mar 12 10:32:45 * DocScrutinizer feeling more alert with a cup of coffee now Mar 12 10:33:27 ptitjes: Ok, editing it and posting it. Cross posting on the blog too. Mar 12 10:34:27 Ainulindale: cross posting?! tztztz ;-) Mar 12 10:35:09 * ptitjes is getting a second cup of coffee with a cigarette Mar 12 10:38:31 ok, ready to push some more shr-settings microoptimizations Mar 12 10:38:57 (well, startup time decreases by >0.5 seconds on my FR) Mar 12 10:39:20 wow Mar 12 10:39:33 how? Mar 12 10:40:29 Ainulindale: ping when its done Mar 12 10:41:04 sending it now Mar 12 10:41:05 committed Mar 12 10:41:12 would you like to reread it before? Mar 12 10:41:16 a simple import dbus takes 0.7 seconds Mar 12 10:41:17 Or is it ok if I send it directly? Mar 12 10:41:32 DocScrutinizer: so I lazily import dbus now after we showed the main GUI Mar 12 10:42:08 between showing main GUI and actually pressing a button there is enough time to do those imports Mar 12 10:42:11 sounds reasonable Mar 12 10:42:53 though a little "windowesque" Mar 12 10:43:25 anyway nothing wrong with early UI feedback Mar 12 10:43:50 actually, I don't find it hacky at all. It's just deferring stuff to when there is time to do it, keeping the critical path short and quick Mar 12 10:44:10 yup Mar 12 10:44:11 Ainulindale: no send it Mar 12 10:44:18 spaetz_: speaking of python, do you know how to lazily connect to X? Mar 12 10:44:27 lindi-: nope :) Mar 12 10:44:32 spaetz_: just doing 'import pygtk' will try to connect to X Mar 12 10:44:47 spaetz_: and it does not give me a way to cope with the failure Mar 12 10:45:00 I use python-elementary now. And on my desktop importing pygtk is fast enough Mar 12 10:45:20 But I am no expert in all things X :) Mar 12 10:45:36 spaetz_: it's not about speed. i want to gracefully handle the case when X dies Mar 12 10:46:23 * DocScrutinizer thinks that's gonna be tough Mar 12 10:46:57 lindi-: good luck :-) no clue though Mar 12 10:47:21 will reimporting pygtk attempt to reconnect? Mar 12 10:48:38 lindi-: there is "reload (modname)" Mar 12 10:48:48 which will try to reimport Mar 12 10:48:51 ? Mar 12 10:49:37 posted Mar 12 10:49:40 now I'm going to eat Mar 12 10:50:20 spaetz_: if whole app dies on first attempt, how to call "reload()"? Mar 12 10:50:56 spaetz_: I have written the version of my python launcher (http://git.gravedo.de/?p=pyl.git;a=summary) Mar 12 10:51:15 spaetz_: currently it doent work on the fr, because there is no multiprocessing module in oe Mar 12 10:51:43 spaetz_: even worse: if you're connected and X dies, reload won't probably help a lot if you can't catch the errors Mar 12 10:51:48 ahh, app dies. sorry had missed that little fact :-) Mar 12 10:52:14 Ainulindale: bonap Mar 12 10:52:48 morphis: "import elementary" takes 0.8 secs on FR Mar 12 10:53:04 is there a possibility to speed that up? Mar 12 10:53:18 and 0.8 secs is not on first start but subsequent starts Mar 12 10:53:33 probably you would need two distinct processes: one to handle X which is allowed to die on death of X, and onother one to control and eventually respawn this X-process Mar 12 10:53:52 hm Mar 12 10:54:11 when importing elementary, every widget is imported Mar 12 10:54:24 no clue where the time is spent Mar 12 10:54:36 within python-elementary I mean Mar 12 10:54:41 jepp Mar 12 10:54:48 anyway, lunch is ready. bbl Mar 12 10:54:49 I can do some profiling Mar 12 10:55:05 would be cool. 0.8 sec is quite some time on app startup Mar 12 10:56:07 currently I have no fr available, but I try on my laptop Mar 12 10:58:25 Ainulindale: this is perfect! I hope everybody will react accordingly! Mar 12 10:59:04 Ainulindale: (I had completely forget the theming thing idea... :p) Mar 12 11:01:08 can someone do a "import cProfile \r\n cProfile.run('import elementary')\r\n" for me on the fr? Mar 12 11:07:13 spaetz_: btw. what about using the new pager widget in shr-settings? Mar 12 11:10:32 morphis: for which part? Mar 12 11:11:21 the gui Mar 12 11:11:29 so you dont have to create many windows, only use the main window Mar 12 11:12:56 morphis: ahh... ok. I thought of the pager as a wizard like step through thingie... Mar 12 11:13:08 but to use it instead of extra windows is a good idea Mar 12 11:13:20 now, it is the cool slide effect you see on the iPhone when switching to another screen Mar 12 11:13:55 maybe it will also speedup shr-settings, because you dont have to open a new window Mar 12 11:33:52 CM_work: seems like bot is a perl script, so maybe perlre(1) should apply, no? Mar 12 11:35:40 mwester: ? Mar 12 11:35:59 "They are stuck where they are because of their own self-defeating ideas." (wikipedia on Hopscotch characters) Mar 12 11:39:14 morphis, didn't know about a pager widget Mar 12 11:39:19 but it sounds cool Mar 12 11:39:36 ahh, he's gone Mar 12 11:43:24 mrmoku: in python-elementary svn is now a simple test case for the pager widget whichs shows how it works Mar 12 11:46:13 morphis, will look into the pager Mar 12 11:46:21 spaetz_, great Mar 12 11:46:28 cProfile (or Profile) is not available on the FR Mar 12 11:46:31 hm Mar 12 11:46:40 even not in oe? Mar 12 11:47:00 no clue, haven't looked yet. Mar 12 11:47:05 but will do Mar 12 11:47:18 no, no extra package is there Mar 12 11:47:51 morphis: so far I thought about preparing an invisible window before the user clicks a button Mar 12 11:47:52 hm fso is using cProfile so it should be somewhere Mar 12 11:48:02 hm Mar 12 11:48:09 and just show() it when a module is clicked Mar 12 11:48:36 but pager sounds even better. There is no mention of them on http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary though :) Mar 12 11:48:51 its really new :) Mar 12 11:48:56 * mrmoku finds oprofile... not cprofile though (on first glance) Mar 12 11:49:02 hm Mar 12 11:49:13 spaetz_: can take a look in elementary test app :-) Mar 12 11:50:24 so, I am at launch Mar 12 11:51:10 * mrmoku --> lunch too Mar 12 11:51:59 * spaetz_ is back from lunch already :) Mar 12 11:52:03 pager looks nifty Mar 12 11:52:07 * spaetz_ wants it Mar 12 12:19:07 * mrmoku wants spaetz_ to implement it then :P Mar 12 12:29:05 * morphis is back from launch Mar 12 12:29:53 * mrmoku eats faster than morphis ;) Mar 12 12:30:32 :) Mar 12 12:37:25 :D Mar 12 12:44:47 mrmoku: I am currently looking into adding GPS infos to shr-setting Mar 12 12:45:25 I have never seen zhone, but I guess just providing the usual suspects will be enough: Mar 12 12:45:37 location, #satellites, accuracy, course Mar 12 12:50:34 spaetz_: ttff would be another one Mar 12 12:50:48 does gypsy provide that? Mar 12 12:50:58 and zhone has a nice graphics with circles to show where the satellites are ;) Mar 12 12:52:31 blah :-) Mar 12 12:52:40 :-) Mar 12 12:52:42 it's an settings app, not a compass Mar 12 12:52:46 :) Mar 12 12:53:01 * spaetz_ ponders it Mar 12 12:53:08 for now text labels only Mar 12 12:53:53 hmm... ponder ttff too... can't find it. Mar 12 12:54:05 I can't see it in the gypsy spec Mar 12 12:54:07 you would have to listen to signals... which is difficult if gps is allready started Mar 12 12:54:23 listening to signals is trivial Mar 12 12:54:29 ahh, I see Mar 12 12:54:40 yes, if its already running, it would be tricky Mar 12 12:54:50 to know the time when it got started.. yeah Mar 12 12:55:13 * mrmoku thought to have seen it in zhone though... goes and checks zhone source Mar 12 12:55:44 did that Mar 12 12:55:50 got it Mar 12 12:56:10 onUBXDebugPacket: if clid == "NAV-STATUS" and data and 'TTFF' in data[0]: Mar 12 12:56:19 self.ttff = data[0]['TTFF']/1000.0 Mar 12 12:56:45 no, way I am going to listen into UBX debug packets Mar 12 12:56:50 :) Mar 12 12:56:52 yep Mar 12 13:05:10 spaetz_: you could just cp zhone over and try it... to get some inspirations :P Mar 12 13:05:49 mmh, not as much fun, but probably more productive :) Mar 12 13:06:39 I just tried it... cp over src/zhone and call ./build in data/themes/toby and cp the resulting .edj to /usr/share/zhone Mar 12 13:07:14 isn't zhone available from our repos? Mar 12 13:07:27 if not, we might consider including it Mar 12 13:07:27 spaetz_: don't think so... Mar 12 13:07:31 ok Mar 12 13:07:37 raster? Mar 12 13:07:44 we would have to get rid auf the autostarting though Mar 12 13:07:48 s/auf/of/ Mar 12 13:07:49 mrmoku meant: we would have to get rid of the autostarting though Mar 12 13:07:50 right Mar 12 13:21:28 ptitjes: see how many people reacted? :-) Mar 12 13:25:20 wow :) Mar 12 13:32:28 So you agree we have to do that kind of thing from now on? :-) Mar 12 13:34:37 * mrmoku got educated by Ainulindale and is using the ML nowadays :P Mar 12 13:34:44 Good :-) Mar 12 13:34:56 Well anyway the goal is to make what we do visible Mar 12 13:35:05 yay Mar 12 13:35:07 If we don't, then people thinks that we don't do a thing Mar 12 13:35:18 That much said, the FSO team should do likewise Mar 12 13:35:18 visible and influenceable Mar 12 13:35:29 But as they're a bunch of dorks they don't :-) Mar 12 13:36:15 Ainulindale: Hehe Mar 12 13:36:16 YEAH, I get a simple elementary window started through vala! Mar 12 13:36:25 Anyway, really good talk with ptitjes yesterday, we should really set up a meeting for the FSO/SHR teams :-) Mar 12 13:36:34 (by the way tonight we're seeing Angus) Mar 12 13:36:38 Ainulindale: Well, I was about to say others have tried and failed :-) Mar 12 13:36:48 alphaone: well that's a matter of habit Mar 12 13:36:56 You have to force yourself to do that Mar 12 13:37:01 I don't do it out of sheer pleasure Mar 12 13:37:04 Ainulindale: Please set a date Mar 12 13:37:11 Ainulindale: Sure, I know Mar 12 13:37:13 alphaone: the matter is more about the place than the date :-) Mar 12 13:37:25 Ainulindale: So set a place instead :-) Mar 12 13:37:29 Maybe setting up some conference call first would be a good idea ? Mar 12 13:37:42 Well it depends Mar 12 13:37:49 Ainulindale: sounds good Mar 12 13:37:53 I'd say Paris is a good place but maybe Germany would be better Mar 12 13:38:12 * alphaone hasn't been to Paris so I'm okay :-) Mar 12 13:38:34 Ok then I'll write a mail Mar 12 13:38:40 mrmoku: would you be open to come to Paris ? Mar 12 13:38:48 Hire: and you? Mar 12 13:39:04 Ainulindale: would be kind of difficult for me :( Mar 12 13:39:18 where do you live exactly ? Mar 12 13:39:23 munich Mar 12 13:39:30 Actually I have...arrived at Charles de Gaulle and had to depart from Orly Mar 12 13:39:43 alphaone: and how about you, mickey|zzZZzz & stefan? Mar 12 13:39:52 (and anyone else willing to come) Mar 12 13:39:57 mrmoku: hard even on a week-end? Mar 12 13:40:16 Ainulindale: I'd be open to that. Mar 12 13:40:31 alphaone: how about meaning where do you live? Mar 12 13:41:02 Trying to find the least objectable place :-) Mar 12 13:41:10 Would be possible as well. Mar 12 13:41:27 alphaone: the question was: could you say me where do you live, dumbass? :-) Mar 12 13:41:37 s/say/tell/ Mar 12 13:41:38 Ainulindale meant: alphaone: the question was: could you tell me where do you live, dumbass? :-) Mar 12 13:41:39 Ainulindale: yeah... even on weekends... apart from weekends being family time... money is a problem too Mar 12 13:42:00 mrmoku: well if we can set up some car arrangements maybe that would be doable? Mar 12 13:42:16 Ainulindale: Well, how was I supposed to discern that from your gibberish? :-) Mar 12 13:42:17 Else you would be able to do some confcall with us :-p Mar 12 13:42:22 Ainulindale: Braunschweig Mar 12 13:42:28 alphaone: you're used to my gibberish now, right? :-) Mar 12 13:42:35 alphaone: that's up my ass isn't it? Mar 12 13:42:35 shoragan and stefan live in the area as well Mar 12 13:42:42 (I don't know where this is) Mar 12 13:42:45 Ainulindale: Yes Mar 12 13:42:50 But most stuff is :-) Mar 12 13:42:53 heh :-) Mar 12 13:43:22 hi. just a reminder. GSoC cfp for organisations opened today :D Mar 12 13:43:26 Ok well, I'll mail the SHR ML about that, with ideas for places, and we'll try and decide that Mar 12 13:43:45 alphaone: by the way, talk with ptitjes about his mock object framework for framework Mar 12 13:43:49 Ainulindale: http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=52.26589516659573&lon=10.52964403905349&zoom=14&layers=B0000F000F Mar 12 13:43:51 would be a good GSoC idea Mar 12 13:44:12 Sup3rkiddo: fso/shr already applied Mar 12 13:44:22 alphaone, coolness :) Mar 12 13:44:26 alphaone: written in german, it might as well be chinese Mar 12 13:44:39 Ok, near Hannover Mar 12 13:44:54 Ainulindale: We'd also have some options for meeting/accomodation here Mar 12 13:45:28 ok then I'll talk about both options Mar 12 13:45:39 okay Mar 12 13:45:48 But I'd prefer Paris ;-) Mar 12 13:45:48 but for now I have a meeting with my intern Mar 12 13:45:57 so I'll be there in a jiffy Mar 12 13:46:47 have fun Mar 12 13:47:02 Don't give him too hard a time Mar 12 13:50:08 alphaone, is FSO looking for mentors... if yes, i'd like to offer some time helping around this time Mar 12 13:50:49 raster: ping Mar 12 13:51:16 paris? Mar 12 13:51:43 raster: is it legal to have an entry as content of a scroller and swallow that into a layout part? Mar 12 13:51:51 ainulindale wants to do a shr meeting? Mar 12 13:52:15 raster: having endless bounces between evas_object_clip_recalc and evas_object_recalc_clippees when scrolling down (by just entering newlines) Mar 12 13:53:03 Hire: SHR meets FSO or FSOSHRUDCON Mar 12 13:53:20 and where is FSOSHRUDCON? Mar 12 13:53:23 and Mar 12 13:53:28 OH MY GOD Mar 12 13:53:39 what the frack is FSOSHRUDCON? :| Mar 12 13:54:13 freesmartphone org and stable hybrid release users and developers conference :P Mar 12 13:54:52 that name... it scared me Mar 12 13:55:00 ( and scarred too ) Mar 12 13:55:02 ah ah ah Mar 12 13:55:06 I did a joke Mar 12 13:55:07 FreeSmartphone Org and Stable Hybrid Release Users and Developers CONference :P Mar 12 13:55:14 to make you understand it better ;) Mar 12 13:55:21 i see Mar 12 13:55:28 thx for exlpain Mar 12 13:55:30 but... Mar 12 13:56:32 where it will be the FSOSHRUDCON? germany? france? ainu's home? rome because you love me so much to do it where I can reach it without weariness? Mar 12 13:57:06 well... to be discussed me thinks Mar 12 13:57:56 two candidates for now are Paris and Braunschweig Mar 12 13:58:25 why not Berlin ? Mar 12 13:58:28 Berlin is cool Mar 12 13:59:06 ohhh Mar 12 14:00:07 TPE ftw Mar 12 14:00:27 why not count how many users&devs come from germany, how many come from france and decide therefore Mar 12 14:01:01 Braunschweig or Berlin would me very cool Mar 12 14:01:08 ehu :( Mar 12 14:01:09 morphis_: personnaly I'm french, but I don't mind going to Berlin Mar 12 14:01:18 too far for me Mar 12 14:01:19 (I just know too much Paris :p) Mar 12 14:01:31 me too Mar 12 14:01:34 I know paris Mar 12 14:01:41 i visited it for two times Mar 12 14:02:23 alphaone: would you like me to cross post the mail to smartphone-devel ? Mar 12 14:02:39 (smartphone-standards) Mar 12 14:03:11 Sup3rkiddo: Sure,would be great. But first we'll need to be accepted Mar 12 14:03:24 Ainulindale: yes please Mar 12 14:04:19 ptitjes: I live in germany in the near of Braunschweig and I am currently a poor student not having enough money to go to paris :) Mar 12 14:05:17 * bgat is back Mar 12 14:06:59 morphis_: I vote for Berlin Mar 12 14:08:22 alphaone: sent Mar 12 14:08:31 great Mar 12 14:10:01 by the way Mar 12 14:10:12 DocScrutinizer: this meeting is mandatory for you Mar 12 14:10:21 you sure do owe me a beer Mar 12 14:11:25 huh? Mar 12 14:11:45 what? :-) Mar 12 14:12:06 which meeting? Mar 12 14:12:36 FSOSHRUDCON Mar 12 14:14:12 send me an invitation with ticket and accomodation ;-) Mar 12 14:14:24 heh :-) Mar 12 14:14:43 no more expenses account here :-/ Mar 12 14:15:00 ptitjes: double vote is allowed? than I vote for Braunschweig and Berlin Mar 12 14:15:11 Ainulindale: we could do it in munich... no excuses for ticket and accomodation ;) Mar 12 14:15:42 meh :-) Mar 12 14:16:00 anyway the main purpose of this mail is also to set up car sharing and so on Mar 12 14:17:15 train sharing Mar 12 14:17:52 I could lend you my private jet Mar 12 14:17:53 Though the Deutsche Bahn already has a website where they share their trains with you Mar 12 14:18:10 Ainulindale: RC? :-) Mar 12 14:18:11 Though I think I'll come with my rocket pack Mar 12 14:18:17 alphaone: RC? Mar 12 14:18:31 radio controlled plane? Mar 12 14:18:34 * mwester would love to attend, but we're in a recession here in the US and /me has no money. Mar 12 14:18:38 not even :-) Mar 12 14:18:43 alphaone: paper plane Mar 12 14:18:46 paper Mar 12 14:18:49 Ha! :-) Mar 12 14:19:00 mwester: /you are lousy Mar 12 14:19:09 And old Mar 12 14:19:11 Ainulindale: In that case please bring your private jet :-) Mar 12 14:19:16 hehe! That's actually my nick in Quake III Mar 12 14:19:20 "Mr. Lousy" Mar 12 14:19:23 Meh :-) Mar 12 14:19:25 heh Mar 12 14:19:29 and I am not old, I am ancient. Mar 12 14:19:34 Well if you play such a game then I agree you're lousy Mar 12 14:19:42 mwester f'taghn! Mar 12 14:20:14 (sorry, fhtagn) Mar 12 14:20:23 R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Mar 12 14:20:40 (a.k.a. "Call of mwester") Mar 12 14:22:03 khapp'la. Me away for RL now Mar 12 14:24:31 Looks like RL is #openmoko for Doc ;) Mar 12 14:26:54 * mwester thinks that since Doc got Xchat working on his n810, #openmoko* goes along with him to RL. Mar 12 14:27:14 So much for my meeting this morning. Mar 12 14:27:49 It was really nice of the organizer to tell me that he cancelled it. :( Mar 12 14:28:45 mrmoku: ping Mar 12 14:28:48 So now I have most of the day, with nothing scheduled. :D Maybe I'll get some real work done. Or maybe I'll play with SHR. Mar 12 14:28:53 mrmoku: http://git.gravedo.de/?p=vala-elementary.git;a=summary Mar 12 14:29:09 * mwester goes off to go back to his office. Mar 12 14:29:46 morphis_: :-D ... worth to give it a try already? Mar 12 14:30:14 :) Mar 12 14:30:22 it has only basic functionallity Mar 12 14:30:43 another point is, that we have to decide if want to bind more than elementary Mar 12 14:31:00 blah :P Mar 12 14:31:03 but generally it works :) Mar 12 14:31:22 morphis_: will give it a try this evening... thanks :-) Mar 12 14:31:35 no problem :) Mar 12 14:32:02 when mickey is back, I will talk to him about further steps Mar 12 14:33:34 morphis_: Cool project :) Mar 12 14:34:06 CM_work: jepp, a next step to a great app development plattform for openmoko :D Mar 12 14:35:54 I've only dabbled in vala when it was really new, and never used elementary.. But I like to learn new stuff... :) Mar 12 14:37:06 CM_work: super :) Mar 12 14:45:16 morphis_, take a look at http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=python-helpers.git;a=tree;f=pycd;h=962ce8b592c75e164ca85855b8b6cbf234c1a7e5;hb=HEAD Mar 12 14:45:34 it still needs some work Mar 12 14:59:22 another answer ptitjes Mar 12 14:59:25 see how many ideas came up? Mar 12 14:59:27 shoragan: hey Mar 12 14:59:32 available for FSOSHRUDCON? Mar 12 15:02:45 * mrmoku wonders if Ainulindale already set up an alias for FSOSHRUDCON :P Mar 12 15:03:15 Nah. Mar 12 15:03:16 ainulindale: Ph’nglui mglw’nafh mwester R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn, is more correct Mar 12 15:03:19 I'm too lazy for that :-) Mar 12 15:03:26 Hire: I don't care! :-p Mar 12 15:03:32 me neither Mar 12 15:05:05 however Mar 12 15:05:38 how are you my precious piggy lazy rude french dude? Mar 12 15:06:07 i read that you have brake up with your girlfriend... i am sorry for that Mar 12 15:07:15 He's got a new one already! Mar 12 15:07:31 fuck shit Mar 12 15:07:56 (a russian) Mar 12 15:08:02 why? Mar 12 15:08:03 WHY?!?! Mar 12 15:08:11 (I shouldn't do that, but hey: www.ainulindale.net/eugenie.jpg) Mar 12 15:08:15 now i can't do sex with you Mar 12 15:08:17 (A hot summer in Moscow) Mar 12 15:08:20 heh Mar 12 15:08:33 screw you Mar 12 15:08:40 (she's too lovely to be human) Mar 12 15:08:55 (she's doing a PhD in philosophy) Mar 12 15:08:57 yeah, she simple doesn't exist Mar 12 15:09:03 you are simple mad Mar 12 15:09:07 Hire: nope Mar 12 15:09:10 I found my pearl Mar 12 15:09:25 and that girl is simple a thing of your french mind Mar 12 15:09:26 A blonde girl, with an imposant bossom, and intelligent as well Mar 12 15:09:29 yeah, a real nerd poster: http://benfry.com/distellamap/ Mar 12 15:09:35 Dangerous -- you'll lose every arguement with a philosophy student! Mar 12 15:09:44 becuase in that photo I see only a wall Mar 12 15:09:54 Nah you're underestimating my stuborness. Mar 12 15:10:30 probabily Mar 12 15:10:44 Ainulindale: Pure beauty. Ping me for a consultation if you decide to surprise her with some unexpected russian knowledge ;) Mar 12 15:10:46 but is more fun to think that you are crazy :D Mar 12 15:10:50 however Mar 12 15:10:54 i am happy for you Mar 12 15:11:02 PaulFert`: Well I'm actually learning russian Mar 12 15:11:08 i am on research to find a girl as her Mar 12 15:11:19 Ainulindale: Privet, kak dela? ;) Mar 12 15:11:41 Ne zdayou "dela" Mar 12 15:11:49 (uncertain of my sentence) Mar 12 15:11:58 (I'm just beginning though :-p) Mar 12 15:12:34 I'm mostly able to say "Ia gibou ve parijee" Mar 12 15:12:35 Ainulindale: Feel free to ask me questions about it, i'm feeling i'm going to forget russian being all the time on this channel :) Mar 12 15:12:38 (transcription is mostly phonetic) Mar 12 15:13:13 PaulFert`: well I'll try when I'll be able to actually speak it a bit more :-) Mar 12 15:13:41 Ainulindale: it's unfortunate we use non-latin alphabet though Mar 12 15:13:52 I think it's fun to learn Mar 12 15:13:59 My only problem is with the guttural i Mar 12 15:14:05 it's an unusual sound in french Mar 12 15:14:50 (and anyway I like to learn new things) Mar 12 15:14:50 And i think your "R" sounds strange (in russian understanding) too :p Mar 12 15:15:11 Well I'm totally unable to pronounce a proper r as in russian (or spanish) Mar 12 15:15:17 sounds more like an l Mar 12 15:15:36 That's why I can't say "perro" in spanish properly :-p Mar 12 15:15:49 (And that's why I don't speak about dogs) Mar 12 15:15:52 (perro = dog) Mar 12 15:16:42 Ainulindale: even some russian people can't do it. But i know a good method how to learn. Mar 12 15:16:48 yeah? Mar 12 15:16:50 I'm all ears Mar 12 15:17:02 If it involves sticking my tongue in Genia's mouth it's better Mar 12 15:17:23 No, it's something you need to do by yourself :) Mar 12 15:17:30 Damn, too bad Mar 12 15:17:36 So, how do you do that? Mar 12 15:18:08 (ah, and about pronunciation: these a/o and e which can be different all the time are really nasty) Mar 12 15:18:10 oh no Mar 12 15:18:12 a french russian Mar 12 15:18:15 :( Mar 12 15:18:23 this scared me .. Mar 12 15:18:26 Hire: well it has been said that I look like a russian Mar 12 15:18:33 It's unfortunate mostly Mar 12 15:19:27 nah! you like nothing... Mar 12 15:19:40 You need to press your tongue against the upper teeth, like you're going to loudly say the first sound of "D". Then do a steady blow keeping the tongue somewhat pressed. The end of the tongue will start to vibrate. Mar 12 15:19:41 :p Mar 12 15:20:09 Well I'll try that later on I'm at the office right now :-p Mar 12 15:20:24 And I have to leave Mar 12 15:20:24 Are you afraid to look weird? ;) Mar 12 15:20:29 Nah I already look weird Mar 12 15:20:34 People call me Dr. House here Mar 12 15:20:46 he-he, Ainulindale you should call PaulFert` , and pronunce it him) Mar 12 15:20:50 muahaha, rotfl Mar 12 15:21:23 well anyway I have to leave Mar 12 15:21:33 me too ... ;-D Mar 12 15:21:35 ptitjes: if you want to come to my place directly feel free to do so at 18 or so Mar 12 15:21:52 we'll set up the bear traps for Angus Mar 12 15:21:57 oki Mar 12 15:22:00 :D Mar 12 15:22:01 'nuff said, I'm leaving Mar 12 15:22:02 lol Mar 12 15:22:02 See you :-) Mar 12 15:22:55 hé men! Mar 12 15:23:12 can someone recall me what's the point of having a C function declared static ? Mar 12 15:23:21 ptitjes: it won't be exported Mar 12 15:23:44 PaulFert`: kinda inlined so ? Mar 12 15:24:02 ok not inlined but not on symbol table ? Mar 12 15:24:06 ptitjes: no just you can't link to them from the other .o files :) Mar 12 15:24:10 ptitjes: yes Mar 12 15:24:14 thanks Mar 12 15:25:11 ptitjes: and the same for variables. Local variables declared static are statically allocated (and preserve their value) and initialized to 0 btw. Mar 12 15:25:38 oki thanks Mar 12 15:26:01 PaulFert`: currently trying to implement my gproxy thing... Mar 12 15:26:38 ptitjes: I wonder what tricks you will use in the end... Mar 12 15:27:06 no idea yet :) Mar 12 15:27:21 just set up infrastructure for now Mar 12 15:27:37 gtype creation stuff Mar 12 15:31:48 PaulFert`: btw do you know whether I could allocate a callback in memory ? Mar 12 15:34:53 hey, i have a problem with booting the shr kernel with my own rootfs. the rootfs gets mounted, but after that it tells me "kernel panic - not syncing - no init found..." and after that all the time the message "RCU detected CPU 0 stall" appears, i could find out by booting from nor that it gets timed out, but why? Mar 12 15:35:18 ptitjes: a callback in memory? I doubt it, W^X, you know... Mar 12 15:35:46 W^X Mar 12 15:35:46 ? Mar 12 15:35:50 nand* Mar 12 15:37:14 ptitjes: write or execute. To avoid executing nasty code (of exploits) on stack. Mar 12 15:37:20 s/or/xor/ Mar 12 15:37:21 PaulFert` meant: ptitjes: write xor execute. To avoid executing nasty code (of exploits) on stack. Mar 12 15:44:45 how can the FSO gypsy use the same satellite number multiple times? Mar 12 15:44:50 Why lpotter doesn't answer on my mail? :( Mar 12 15:45:08 I feor how should I interpret sat["CNO"] Mar 12 15:45:14 arrg Mar 12 15:45:33 CNO is the satellite's number which should be unique, right? Mar 12 15:50:18 ahh, CNO is a signal/noise ration Mar 12 15:54:19 PaulFert`: ljp probably doesn't have any good answer Mar 12 15:55:13 DocScrutinizer: assuming he's not chineese he can just say something like: "well, i thought that was an issue with the hardware pcm interface" or smth like that. Mar 12 15:56:20 Or probably he's tried to go via HCI and failed (because of the BT EEPROM setting). Still some answer exists... Mar 12 15:56:20 may his spamfilter Nolia has established for him filters out all OM-related stuff ;) Mar 12 15:56:38 Nah, i see his mail and replies at community. Mar 12 15:57:26 probably the answer is "I was upset and this was rant" Mar 12 15:58:08 That's a valid answer too. Perfectly valid. Mar 12 15:58:15 anyway I really managed to even put my jacket on now ;D Mar 12 15:58:24 LOL Mar 12 15:58:30 cya Mar 12 15:58:39 :) Mar 12 16:01:12 PaulFert`: ps:(yay) ever wondered bout the meaning of "reset" bits and especially bit 0 (ACK) of AT%Nxxxx setting? Mar 12 16:01:37 PaulFert`: all this very cloudy still Mar 12 16:02:22 I'd assume an ACK bit that's never set to 0 wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, no? Mar 12 16:06:51 DocScrutinizer: no, i've read the description, surprised by the level of details, but never thought about actual meaning :) Mar 12 16:20:20 ok, I'll merge my GPS stuff back to shr-settings, I think Mar 12 16:31:51 pushed Mar 12 16:46:18 Since upgrading my SHR unstable install recently, I have no icons, even though the upgrade pulled in e-wm-utils. Upgrading again or reinstalling that package doesn't seem to help, and I can find no mention of this problem on the SHR trac. Is this a bug or just me being stupid? Mar 12 16:47:43 LqR: there is something on the shr-devel list "icons broken again" or sth like that Mar 12 16:48:48 LqR: http://lists.projects.openmoko.org/pipermail/shr-devel/2009-March/001149.html Mar 12 16:48:54 issue nomber b) Mar 12 16:50:11 raster: ping Mar 12 16:50:27 mrmoku: what do you think for now? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/9a95a440a378878fc688c0c58a757b59.png Mar 12 16:50:35 screenie f gps info in shr-settings Mar 12 16:52:39 raster: tried to compile elementary and got this error: /usr/local/bin/edje_cc: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/lib/libedje.so.0: undefined symbol: evas_object_box_layout_horizontal Mar 12 16:57:23 spaetz: Thanks, the suggested fix worked. Mar 12 16:58:19 But now that I am here: is there a way to make applications' icons larger? I'm mainly thinking of Fbreader, whose toolbar icons are now so small they are hard to hit even WITH a stylus. Mar 12 17:39:38 Can someone tell me why Firefox is giving me an infinite redirect loop error after logging in to trac? Mar 12 17:39:55 which one? Mar 12 17:40:57 shr-project.org Mar 12 18:12:12 llentz: be happy! once I killed Konqueror after loading picture 15000 of a recursive frame in frame ;-) Mar 12 18:26:01 DocScrutinizer: Nice :) I remember a coworker one time embedded a custom emailing function into a template with the same name (Coldfusion). The internal sales rep got 250,000 emails before we were able to kill the box. Mar 12 18:26:30 loool Mar 12 18:33:44 mrmoku: how about segfault? ;) Mar 12 18:36:28 spaetz: - if self.gps.GetResourcePolicy("GPS")=="auto": Mar 12 18:36:29 + gpsstate = self.gps.GetResourcePolicy("GPS") Mar 12 18:36:29 - self.toggle1.state_set(self.gps.GetResourceState("GPS")) Mar 12 18:36:29 + self.toggle1.state_set(gpsstate) Mar 12 18:36:35 i don't think it is really what we want Mar 12 18:36:50 gps resource policy and resource state is something different Mar 12 18:36:51 ;) Mar 12 18:37:11 but it's only speculation when reading commit diff, i hasn't tested it yet on FR Mar 12 19:01:50 hi dos1 Mar 12 19:01:56 hi Mar 12 19:02:05 * spaetz catches up irc log Mar 12 19:04:01 dos1: imho, i just cache the dbus call result in 'gpsstate' where we had 2 calls previously Mar 12 19:04:33 spaetz: take a look - GetResourcePolicy vs GetResourceState Mar 12 19:04:36 at least nothing should behave different there. if it does, it is a bug Mar 12 19:05:19 ok, looks like an oversight from me Mar 12 19:05:46 i will revert that if you are not quicker Mar 12 19:06:09 screenshot of the gps screen is on scap Mar 12 19:06:32 looks nice Mar 12 19:06:54 don't revert Mar 12 19:07:10 i'm building package now to test it Mar 12 19:07:19 and if i'm correct, i will fix that one line Mar 12 19:07:35 whole gps info screen looks nice, good work ;) Mar 12 19:13:46 i think you are correct. Mar 12 19:14:08 there are still some issuess with it Mar 12 19:14:57 1) when closing the screen, i need to remove the signal handler again Mar 12 19:15:43 2) values are now only shown when they are changed, ie dbus issues a signal Mar 12 19:16:23 so, i need to populate values on init once Mar 12 19:17:51 but it is a start Mar 12 19:18:42 (plus mrmoku wants the sats displayed graphically with circles like in zhone :-)) Mar 12 19:19:33 spaetz: still good work, i'm to lazy to do that :D Mar 12 19:31:29 spaetz: commited :) Mar 12 19:31:31 any of you who has a precompiled package of bluez where pand is in? Mar 12 19:32:29 thanks for fixing my mistakes (and for spotting them in the first place) Mar 12 19:35:13 no problem :) Mar 12 19:38:12 spaetz: nice (gps) :-) Mar 12 19:42:07 mrmoku: no graphics yet ;-) Mar 12 19:42:59 and still haven't seen zhone. reinventing the wheel is so much more fun... Mar 12 19:43:33 spaetz: more interesting than the graphics is maybe the other screen ;) Mar 12 19:43:40 zhone has three gps screens Mar 12 19:43:49 one similiar to what you did Mar 12 19:43:54 one with the circles Mar 12 19:44:01 and one with details for every sat Mar 12 19:44:18 ahh :-) Mar 12 19:44:38 i want to include that in the circles Mar 12 19:44:53 fancy graphics encoding Mar 12 19:44:58 spaetz: that one with stripes (details for every sat) is the most useful IMHO Mar 12 19:45:17 Edward Tufte would love me for my visions Mar 12 19:45:22 I like the one with details for every sat Mar 12 19:46:13 hand them a littl finger, and they'll want the whole hand ;-p Mar 12 19:46:23 (german saying) Mar 12 19:46:25 :D Mar 12 19:46:34 polish also Mar 12 19:46:56 spaetz: uhhh... have bad remembering for that saying :P Mar 12 19:47:27 a teacher said that to me looong time ago Mar 12 19:48:16 And russian too. Mar 12 19:49:03 hehe Mar 12 19:50:01 dos1: morphis was here today and asked about pagers Mar 12 19:50:22 check elementary-test for the example Mar 12 19:50:40 spaetz: i have seen Mar 12 19:50:42 looks interesting Mar 12 19:50:52 they would be a cool way to open new module windows Mar 12 19:51:07 i thought the same Mar 12 19:51:27 but that animations... Mar 12 19:51:28 morphis says, it might be quicker as you don't need to open a new window Mar 12 19:51:42 i will play with it Mar 12 19:51:43 :-) yes... Mar 12 19:51:49 as we can have different launchers ;) Mar 12 19:52:03 animations are crappy Mar 12 19:52:09 on FR Mar 12 19:52:25 with x11-16 is a little bit better... but still crappy :P Mar 12 20:00:46 * DocScrutinizer hates animations. Sometimes someone achieves to talk me dizzy about "additional feedback on man machine interface", but in the end it's always a resource- and time-hog Mar 12 20:02:13 * PaulFert` too Mar 12 20:02:46 :) Mar 12 20:03:15 desktop? fine for having 7 xterms and 2 mc Mar 12 20:04:26 DocScrutinizer: two years ago i was trying to buy a "dumb" cellphone with a reasonable UI. No model suited my taste, not a single device had reasonable shortcuts and fast informative interface. UI experts, heh... Mar 12 20:05:36 DocScrutinizer: btw, urxvt has a client-server model allowing for faster opening of new terminals. Mar 12 20:06:31 DocScrutinizer: also you might like tiling wms (imagine smart GNU Screen for X). Mar 12 20:07:30 hmm, actually I'm fine with Konsole Mar 12 20:08:14 so s/7 xterm/Konsole with 7 tabs/ Mar 12 20:09:17 PaulFert`: maybe you're talking about FR X though? Mar 12 20:10:42 DocScrutinizer: no, about Desktop/laptop. Skim this article: http://www.modeemi.fi/~tuomov/ion/ Mar 12 20:13:04 I prefer xmonad =P Mar 12 20:14:22 hey, can someone tell me where the config file of uboot is? i want to boot from the sdcard, but it seems not to work Mar 12 20:14:59 vininim: But they don't have a description of why WIMP is bad :p Mar 12 20:16:37 sometimes I wimp, xmonad with gnome support (much faster for burning images, for example) Mar 12 20:18:43 vininim: i burn from command line :) Mar 12 20:19:07 root_at: uboot stores its config on the dedicated NAND partition. Mar 12 20:19:49 PaulFert`: I used to, but I had to look up man pages everytime(I don't burn so often). With nautilus it's 3 clicks =) Mar 12 20:20:05 PaulFert`, and how can i get access to the nand partition? Mar 12 20:20:39 root_at: you better connect to it via usb ACM device like described on the wiki and edit interatively Mar 12 20:22:11 root_at: see uboot setenv saveenv Mar 12 20:25:55 i dont get a ttyACM, but cdc_acm is loaded...will try it with setenv, thanks Mar 12 20:26:04 root_at: btw if booting from uSD doesn't work, it frequently is a problem of incorrect setup of the uSD, not a wrong setting of uBoot Mar 12 20:27:32 i think i did it right. he finds the kernel. i formated the first partition with fat16 with 8mb, and the second one with ext2 and 1 gb(does the size of second partition matter?) Mar 12 20:27:55 not really I'd say Mar 12 20:28:11 well so what's the problem on boot? Mar 12 20:28:41 some messager after saying me that he mounted the rootfs, it tells me "kernel panic - not syncing - no init found" Mar 12 20:29:07 but there is a init in /sbin (i use busybox, but cross compiling worked fine, i tried it with mounting it with shr) Mar 12 20:29:19 by* Mar 12 20:29:29 probably your kernel in fat-partition doesn't match the one in /boot and / or modules Mar 12 20:29:57 so i need to copy the kernel into / and /boot on my rootfs? Mar 12 20:30:31 need to copy kernel to fat partition and to ext2:/boot/ Mar 12 20:30:40 IIGTR Mar 12 20:30:40 ok, will try that Mar 12 20:31:19 then ntar the corresponding modules to ext2:/ Mar 12 20:31:35 DocScrutinizer: having two kernels in different places makes sense only if you use both u-boot and Qi. Mar 12 20:31:46 ahh, ok Mar 12 20:32:27 thought it's a prerequisite for using "boot from uSD" with *standard* uBoot settings Mar 12 20:32:57 yeah, still same thing Mar 12 20:33:44 i havent comiled the modules in this rootfs, but i tried it before with another rootfs and it doesnt help Mar 12 20:33:57 and i think if the modules are missing it should show any other error Mar 12 20:34:02 root_at: modules shouldn't matter for running /sbin/init. Mar 12 20:34:10 yeah, i thought that Mar 12 20:34:19 root_at: probably you're missing shared libraries needed to run it. Mar 12 20:34:21 root_at: try http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/calypso_moko_FW/moko11/flash-moko11_uSD-image.tar.gz Mar 12 20:34:55 PaulFert`, i cross compiled busybox, this should get everything with it what it needs, it hasnt got any depencendies(afaik) Mar 12 20:35:03 it's not exactly the image/rootfs you probably want. But it 'just works' Mar 12 20:35:06 root_at: do ldd on the executable Mar 12 20:35:35 DocScrutinizer, thanks, but i want and need to build my own Mar 12 20:36:05 well anyway meddling with uBoot prolly won't help Mar 12 20:36:59 PaulFert`, this just tells me that he cant read the headers Mar 12 20:37:22 but i think he tells me that because its busybox, it uses an interpreter Mar 12 20:37:33 the binarys are as good as empty Mar 12 20:37:39 root_at: Hm, probably that's because you're using ldd from the wrong architecture? Mar 12 20:38:23 PaulFert`, yeah, this could also be the problem...wait, need to boot my freerunner Mar 12 20:39:50 spaetz looks good ;) Mar 12 20:39:52 isnt it possible that he isnt on the partition he should be? Mar 12 20:40:16 thanks :) Mar 12 20:40:30 my fstab is like the one from shr, but instead of "/dev/* /" i have "/dev/mmtcbl0p2 /" Mar 12 20:41:29 spaetz are you swiss? Mar 12 20:42:25 PaulFert`, i dont have ldd in my shr : / in which package is it? Mar 12 20:43:12 PaulFert`, but did i already say that i can execute all this binarys with shr? Mar 12 20:43:41 root_at: There's just one mount, that's " on /" and this is done by uBoot via boot parameter IIGTR. No need to change fstab in the first place Mar 12 20:44:31 DocScrutinizer, and this is for sure the second partition of the sd card? if yes, its mounting the partition right, but then i dont get why he doesnt get the init : / Mar 12 20:45:19 trying to update the gsm firmware on my 01bv4 -- does anyone know of a console image that works on it & sets up networking properly? Mar 12 20:46:06 Quinn_Storm: SHR lite Mar 12 20:46:22 root_at: you might be missing shared libraries on your custom rootfs Mar 12 20:49:08 von_fritz: german, living in switzerland Mar 12 20:49:25 PaulFert`, do you know much about busybox? i dont but afaik i dont need any libs Mar 12 20:49:58 busybox contents everything that it needs Mar 12 20:50:02 (afaik) Mar 12 20:50:29 only if you build it staticly. Mar 12 20:51:15 root_at: mwester is damn right :). As with any other executable. Mar 12 20:51:47 i am not sure if i did...how can i find it out? Mar 12 20:52:30 root_at: with ldd? ;) Mar 12 20:53:06 PaulFert`, do you know in which package it is? Mar 12 20:54:41 root_at: glibc-something i guess :) Mar 12 20:58:20 ah, also, quick question -- I do have a gta01bv4, if I put an SD card in, is there a way to get SHR-full on it? or is that only built for gta02 in general? Mar 12 20:58:56 PaulFert`, how creative...the package is called ldd Mar 12 21:03:26 PaulFert`, if i ldd a binary i get " not a dynamic executable", but if i ldd the busybox interpreter it echoes libm.so.6 libc.so.6 ld-linux.so.3 Mar 12 21:03:53 root_at: hm, what is "a binary" and "the busybox interpreter"? Mar 12 21:04:44 a binary is just any binary form busybox in my rootfs, like vi, chown... the busybox interpreter is just /bin/busybox Mar 12 21:06:06 root_at: so, by binary you mean symlink, do you? Mar 12 21:06:34 PaulFert`, yeah ; ) Mar 12 21:07:29 root_at: so, to run your "init" you also need libm.so.6 libc.so.6 ld-linux.so.3 and ld.so Mar 12 21:08:16 PaulFert`, how could i compile it staticly, so i dont need these libs? Mar 12 21:08:41 root_at: check busybox docs, i think there is an option in menuconfig. Mar 12 21:09:00 PaulFert`, oh yeah. thanks Mar 12 21:09:20 and if i did compile it staticly, ldd should echo nothing? Mar 12 21:10:49 root_at: i guess so :) Mar 12 21:11:24 rwhitby: not a dynamic executable Mar 12 21:11:31 eeee... root_at Mar 12 21:11:32 sorry Mar 12 21:11:43 just tried ldd on dfu-util_static :) Mar 12 21:12:23 dent, and it echoed not a dynamic executable? Mar 12 21:12:31 yeah Mar 12 21:12:47 or... no es un ejecutable dinámico in my locale :) Mar 12 21:13:08 spain, or italy? Mar 12 21:13:32 es_ES Mar 12 21:13:56 dent: don't you have LC_MESSAGES=C set as any other sane person? ;) Mar 12 21:14:22 I'm a masochist... because my "native" locale would be cs_CZ :) Mar 12 21:14:35 ok, time to sleep :) Mar 12 21:14:41 cu Mar 12 21:14:48 anyway LC_ALL=C ldd spits the aqforementioned ^ not a dynamic executable Mar 12 21:15:23 + gcc messages in spanish just rule :) Mar 12 21:15:35 dent: hm, having .mo files for toki pona would be fun Mar 12 21:15:45 toki pona? Mar 12 21:16:36 dent: read the wiki, it'll tell much better than i. Mar 12 21:17:26 hm..CONFIG_STATIC seems queer ... :O Mar 12 21:18:03 root_at: don't turn your bottom to it then ;) Mar 12 21:18:25 lol :) Mar 12 21:19:23 i didnt read if i just need to CONFIG_STATIC=y, but i am too tired to read the doc now and will just try&error now...but it seems right, because in my config now its not set Mar 12 21:27:09 my computer sux : ( he is so damn slow...amd athlon 1800 1,5ghz -.- Mar 12 21:27:35 R- vs C-ts is like emacs vs vim?! rotfl Mar 12 21:27:58 vim wins : D Mar 12 21:31:30 wohooo busybox get launched at bootup : D Mar 12 21:32:00 but it tells me "can't open /dev/tty1: no such file or directory" udev...i hate it Mar 12 21:42:04 root_at: go without then Mar 12 21:42:33 PaulFert`, how do you mean? inittab fails, because i dont have anything in /dev/ as it seems Mar 12 21:42:40 shouldnt the kernel do all this? Mar 12 21:42:52 * bgat is away: nmi Mar 12 21:43:08 The kernel should do as little as is possible; userspace should do as much as it can. Mar 12 21:43:09 root_at: either you employ udev or you make all device nodes you need static (like in good ol' days) Mar 12 21:43:16 * mrmoku thinks bgat gets interrupted quite often :P Mar 12 21:43:20 So, no, the kernel shouldn't do that. Mar 12 21:43:50 PaulFert`, how can i make it static? i just need one node, i think Mar 12 21:44:05 * mwester-laptop thinks it's not _reallly_ an NMI is bgat has time to type "nmi". Mar 12 21:44:44 * mrmoku thinks mwester-laptop is right... it's just a lame excuse ;) Mar 12 21:44:44 root_at: mknod Mar 12 21:45:04 hi, i am using latest shr testing. The alarm applications wakes up the neo but does not play a sound. anyone has a solution for this? Mar 12 21:45:05 root_at: some distros even had a convenience script MAKEDEV Mar 12 21:45:28 mokel, profile silent? : D Mar 12 21:45:28 mokel: have you got navit installed? Mar 12 21:45:36 mrmoku: no Mar 12 21:45:49 why? Mar 12 21:45:53 mokel: then the symlink is missing... Mar 12 21:46:01 which symlink? Mar 12 21:46:06 mokel, but i think the neo isnt loud enough anyway...i tried to wake me with that, but i just slept over the alarm Mar 12 21:46:13 mokel: because it has speech-dispatcher as dependency which kills audio on resume Mar 12 21:46:54 which symlink do you mean? Mar 12 21:47:03 cd /usr/share; ln -s elementary-alarm elementary_alarm Mar 12 21:47:32 i will try it Mar 12 21:47:41 mrmoku: any news on unstable? Mar 12 21:47:58 and the segfault Mar 12 21:48:03 bumbl_: working on it... (the segfault)... have to talk to raster Mar 12 21:48:20 fixed the segfault and earned an endless loop when scrolling :P Mar 12 21:48:54 PaulFert`, does id get deleted? i cant find it on my pc, but if i understood that right id is a dev node, in id:3:initdefault: Mar 12 21:49:16 root_at: what? Mar 12 21:49:41 root_at: you're funny ;) Mar 12 21:50:17 PaulFert`, busybox echoes error bad line 5, and in this line is written "id:3:initdefault:" nice if i make you laugh, bus this isnt my target^^ Mar 12 21:50:22 root_at: inittab is just a way to configure init. Device nodes are special files in /dev (usually) to access kernel drivers. Mar 12 21:50:35 bumbl_: ahh... and spaetz was doing some gps stuff... in shr-settings Mar 12 21:50:41 but that is not yet built Mar 12 21:50:54 PaulFert`, and they get created by udev(or static, or devfs) afaik Mar 12 21:50:59 root_at: you need to specify a script at the end of that line. Mar 12 21:51:05 mrmoku: ok Mar 12 21:51:23 root_at: no Mar 12 21:51:28 root_at: now i'm wrong Mar 12 21:51:34 PaulFert`, which line? initdefault? Mar 12 21:51:35 bumbl_: guess we will have a better unstable at weekend :D Mar 12 21:51:43 perfect Mar 12 21:51:50 root_at: pastebin your whole inittab Mar 12 21:52:24 atm its just this line, the other lines are just comments because busybox echoes for everyline that he cant find it in /dev Mar 12 21:52:26 i plan to use my moko again on my trip to sevilla at the fall of april (tangogps, mokopedia) Mar 12 21:53:08 bumbl: ahh... new tango in unstable (guess you already saw that) :-) Mar 12 21:53:12 root_at: can't be that. And you need to have some devices in /dev (at least console, null, zero, tty1) Mar 12 21:53:16 no not yet Mar 12 21:53:30 PaulFert`, i have mknod console and null Mar 12 21:53:40 root_at: tty0 and tty probably Mar 12 21:53:51 PaulFert`, i didnt create it Mar 12 21:53:52 mrmoku: Thanks. link was not missing but pointed at the wrong place Mar 12 21:53:56 now it works Mar 12 21:53:59 :-) Mar 12 21:54:06 root_at: i hope you create all that devs with the right major/minor numbers? Mar 12 21:54:12 sorry for you... will have to wake up in the morning now ;) Mar 12 21:54:23 PaulFert`, i followed clfs Mar 12 21:54:44 PaulFert`, but they didnt mknod tty or tty0 Mar 12 21:55:10 root_at: ok, but at least tty1 should be available i guess, after all busybox init was unhappy about that. Mar 12 21:55:36 PaulFert`, but he claimed about tty1 not being present Mar 12 21:56:05 but i didnt try tty or tty0 Mar 12 21:56:12 just tty1-6 Mar 12 21:56:56 root_at: i'm not sure, never tried any kind of lfs Mar 12 21:57:21 PaulFert`, what would be the right command to create tty1? with there numbers Mar 12 21:57:25 these* Mar 12 21:57:57 mknod tty1 c 4 1? Mar 12 21:58:00 root_at: mknod tty1 c 4 1 Mar 12 21:58:05 PaulFert`, thanks : ) Mar 12 21:58:35 root_at: i highly doubt i can give a guidance better than clfs Mar 12 21:59:31 PaulFert`, sure? : O my inittab is now just tty1::respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1, correct? Mar 12 21:59:50 of course busycox contents getty Mar 12 22:02:16 root_at: i'm not sure it'll like absence of initdefault and sysinit Mar 12 22:02:50 but busybox does not contain a standard init Mar 12 22:03:12 you can't just throw a busybox executable at the kernel and expect it to work Mar 12 22:03:14 ! Mar 12 22:03:20 wtf is speechdispatcher? anyone with a 2sentence answer? ;) Mar 12 22:03:37 no, typing failure : / Mar 12 22:04:18 muahaha "(none) login:" Mar 12 22:04:19 mwester-laptop: why, i think busybox can act as init if invoked via init symlink. Mar 12 22:04:24 PaulFert`, thanks...THANKS Mar 12 22:05:42 so i am going to bed now, cu..thanks again Mar 12 22:06:04 root_at: you're welcome. Have fun :) Mar 12 22:08:03 PaulFert`: it can - sort of. It does not take a standard inittab file format, though. Mar 12 22:08:11 hi all! Mar 12 22:08:21 does shr-testing uses opimd? Mar 12 22:08:35 how can i import contacts from vcf? Mar 12 22:08:54 DocScrutinizer: some speech synthesis daemon used by navit for spoken directions to go left or right. At least thats what I understood, but never tried Mar 12 22:08:59 Ainulindale: ? =) Mar 12 22:09:15 alexxy: not yet (to both questions) Mar 12 22:09:24 ohh =( Mar 12 22:09:25 mrmoku: cool, man ;) Mar 12 22:09:46 DocScrutinizer: well... it uses libpulse ;) and breaks resume just horribly :( Mar 12 22:10:00 muahaha Mar 12 22:10:15 why use libpulse? Mar 12 22:10:35 it's userland, no? Mar 12 22:10:54 good question... don't know why nobody changed that Mar 12 22:11:18 should use alsa! Mar 12 22:11:24 yep Mar 12 22:12:08 so it wouldn't break audio, and probably resume neither Mar 12 22:13:51 IIGIR pulse claims whole audio exclusively Mar 12 22:14:10 for sure it's a terrible cpu-hog Mar 12 22:14:34 and worth nothing (for this special purpose) Mar 12 22:15:15 IIRC that was why pulse was dropped from distros Mar 12 22:15:30 yup Mar 12 22:15:34 that and because it behaves badly when not having a nice FPU Mar 12 22:15:36 exactly Mar 12 22:15:54 but nobody adjusted that damn speech dispatcher :P Mar 12 22:16:07 mrmoku: i just flashed shr-testing image Mar 12 22:16:14 and it cant register to network Mar 12 22:16:23 and if you install navit it comes as dependency and gets automatically started on boot Mar 12 22:16:31 thus breaking resume Mar 12 22:17:02 alexxy: how long have you been waiting? have a pin enabled? Mar 12 22:17:11 pin disabled Mar 12 22:17:19 well about 5 minutes Mar 12 22:17:30 hmm Mar 12 22:17:38 settings app said that gsm anthena off Mar 12 22:18:00 and that ophonekitd cant connect to dbus Mar 12 22:18:08 that's a weird detail :D Mar 12 22:18:14 alexxy: still the first boot? Mar 12 22:18:21 no Mar 12 22:18:24 hmm Mar 12 22:18:24 second one Mar 12 22:19:02 i can reboot it again Mar 12 22:19:03 =) Mar 12 22:19:12 to see if it will help Mar 12 22:19:33 alexxy: if it does not work after reboot... take a look in /var/log/frameworkd.log Mar 12 22:19:46 ok Mar 12 22:21:17 2009.04.12 22:55:31 ogpsd WARNING (could not write to '/sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gps.0/power_on': [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gps.0/power_on') Mar 12 22:21:17 2009.04.12 22:55:32 ogpsd WARNING (could not write to '/sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gps.0/power_on': [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gps.0/power_on') Mar 12 22:22:17 alexxy: that's ok Mar 12 22:22:38 doesn't sound like a dbus error, nor is it related to gsm Mar 12 22:22:43 2009.04.12 22:56:51 frameworkd.resource INFO setting resource status for GSM from enabled to disabling Mar 12 22:22:43 2009.04.12 22:56:51 frameworkd.resource INFO setting resource status for GSM from disabling to disabled Mar 12 22:22:43 2009.04.12 22:56:51 ousaged INFO Disabled GSM in 0.5 seconds Mar 12 22:22:43 2009.04.12 22:56:51 ousaged INFO Releasing GSM for vanished user :1.3 Mar 12 22:23:26 alexxy: and then you start ophonekitd? Mar 12 22:23:35 alexxy: then take a look in /var/log/ophonekitd.log Mar 12 22:23:47 disabling == AT@POFF ? Mar 12 22:24:00 looks ok Mar 12 22:24:23 vanished user is bad... means ophonekitd is gone Mar 12 22:25:07 mrmoku: http://dpaste.com/13767/ frameworkd.log Mar 12 22:25:13 borked :) Mar 12 22:25:32 http://dpaste.com/13768/ ophonekitd.log Mar 12 22:26:29 so shr again not usable for me Mar 12 22:26:30 =) Mar 12 22:31:07 mrmoku: any ideas? Mar 12 22:31:16 i can try to update to unstable feed Mar 12 22:33:41 alexxy: huh... what is that? Mar 12 22:33:52 org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device -2 Mar 12 22:33:52 aborting... Mar 12 22:33:58 never seen that... Mar 12 22:33:59 dunno Mar 12 22:34:15 paroli image works Mar 12 22:34:18 alexxy: could you check if you SIM is inserted firmly? Mar 12 22:34:20 ahh... ok Mar 12 22:34:24 2008.12 also works Mar 12 22:35:02 so seems its software problem Mar 12 22:35:21 also latest calypso firmware flashed Mar 12 22:35:57 alexxy: guess ophonekitd is taking that error too seriously and is aborting... Mar 12 22:36:47 PaulFert`: ogsmd.modems.abstract.channel WARNING UNHANDLED INTERMEDIATE: OK Mar 12 22:36:51 normal? Mar 12 22:36:59 mrmoku: i think it's ok Mar 12 22:37:16 do you know what -2 is as error? Mar 12 22:37:36 No Mar 12 22:37:53 I think it comes from ophonekitd Mar 12 22:37:55 hmm... -2 is from libframeworkd-glib Mar 12 22:39:52 ok Mar 12 22:40:00 lets try shr unstable Mar 12 22:40:01 its DEVICE_ERROR_TIMEOUT Mar 12 22:40:12 alexxy: don't think that will change much... Mar 12 22:40:32 alexxy: will look into it tomorrow... will you be around? Mar 12 22:40:34 mrmoku: can i configure timeout? Mar 12 22:40:58 PaulFert`: is timeout configurable in frameworkd? Mar 12 22:41:15 mrmoku: source code editing Mar 12 22:41:56 ok but why its not problem with paroli or zhone? Mar 12 22:42:12 gsm/channel.py:DEFAULT_CHANNEL_TIMEOUT = 5*60 Mar 12 22:42:15 is it that? Mar 12 22:42:24 alexxy: you better turn on ogsmd debug... Mar 12 22:42:41 mrmoku: i think we need more debugging info Mar 12 22:42:54 yep... debug log would be good Mar 12 22:43:07 anyway... me is off for today Mar 12 22:43:09 bedtime :-) Mar 12 22:43:23 '[21474541.050000] ramconsole: invalid magic 12344678' -- indeed RAM contents can survive battery-removal :) Mar 12 22:43:45 alexxy: if you can paste some debug log I will take a look tomorrow Mar 12 22:43:46 hmm Mar 12 22:43:55 how do I read physical RAM from userland? Mar 12 22:43:58 with unstable it registered to network Mar 12 22:44:07 but i dont see any icons on screen Mar 12 22:44:10 lindi-: /dev/mem ? Mar 12 22:44:21 alexxy: read the ML for the solution Mar 12 22:44:32 what ml? Mar 12 22:44:38 openmoko-users? Mar 12 22:44:41 alexxy: shr Mar 12 22:44:56 where can i found archives? Mar 12 22:45:26 PaulFert`: 'cat: /dev/mem: Bad address' Mar 12 22:45:31 alexxy: i don't know, i'm not SHR user Mar 12 22:45:34 PaulFert`: do i need to mmap? Mar 12 22:49:02 opkg install e-wm-utils seems fixes it Mar 12 22:50:15 lindi-: i don't know :-/ Mar 13 01:56:21 * bgat is back Mar 13 02:25:33 :p **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 13 02:59:57 2009