**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 18 02:59:57 2009 Mar 18 03:08:54 Error Signal Information: Mar 18 03:08:54 openmoko-messages was interrupted by a Segmentation Fault. Mar 18 03:14:35 anyone? Mar 18 03:14:51 i ate everyone Mar 18 03:14:54 yum yum Mar 18 03:15:26 raster is at it again! Mar 18 03:18:13 DEBUG: phonegui_messages_show() Mar 18 03:18:13 Segmentation fault Mar 18 06:30:10 Zorkman: AS SOON AS YOU TOUCH TTYSAC1, fso-gpsd won't work anymore Mar 18 06:31:11 so yes, i'd expect tangogps not to work after cat /dev/ttySAc1 or usinh agpsui until you restart frameworkd Mar 18 06:31:55 arg0: file a shr-trac ticket, with as much info as you can Mar 18 06:32:23 if you are able to get a backtrace, even better. Mar 18 06:32:48 full sim card is hard to reproduce, i'd guess Mar 18 06:38:31 spaetz: wasnt reading from /dev/ttySAc1 ok? Mar 18 06:58:33 mrmoku: if i remember correctly, even a 'cat' would break fso-gpsd Mar 18 06:59:19 don't ask me why, another RO access should't do any harm, but... Mar 18 07:00:33 * spaetz is glad we have more fso-gpsd debug info in current shr-settings Mar 18 07:00:52 including individual sat strength Mar 18 07:01:13 still ygly though Mar 18 07:01:19 ugly Mar 18 07:08:33 dann, i missed morphis when he was here Mar 18 08:05:03 browsing zhone sources is quite inspiring. good ideas... Mar 18 08:06:22 i'd really likke to avoid python on the fr though. but i's the language i'm most comfortable and fat in. Mar 18 08:07:33 plus setting up efl/valac env for crosscompiling seems impossible to me Mar 18 08:08:45 avoiding python is good :-) Mar 18 08:15:57 spaetz: lets see if mickey|zzZZzz comes up with a toolchain recipe for that :-) Mar 18 08:31:55 good morning Mar 18 08:34:40 sakkara: well, avoiding anything that is not C/assembly on a small device with battery lifetime issues and limited processing power is a good thing... Mar 18 08:34:55 sakkara: but probably not feasible Mar 18 08:36:38 MarcOChapeau: mhm, i think with good power management c is not a problem for battery life, but is faster then python Mar 18 08:37:11 if i want basic phone stuff, i dont want to wait seconds... Mar 18 08:38:08 sakkara: yeah :) Mar 18 08:40:34 the problems with battery life is mostly when you do nothing on the phone Mar 18 08:43:10 the little time the contactlist or phonelog or whatever is open, won't make much difference in c or python Mar 18 08:46:56 but loading time can be decreased, and i think that is most important Mar 18 08:47:53 why is python so slow on the phone? Mar 18 08:51:09 its different from c, its not precompiled Mar 18 08:53:16 i know, but should not pyton with pyrex, profiling +++ other fancy theoretical things make it just as good as C ? Mar 18 08:54:59 sakkara: it is compiled to bytecode Mar 18 08:55:46 but for one thing, starting a python interpreter and importing modules ddoes quiite some IO Mar 18 08:56:04 which the FR sd card sucks at Mar 18 08:56:35 precompiled, even :-) Mar 18 09:05:07 can't you have common modules in memory? Mar 18 09:06:28 compressed even Mar 18 09:10:05 spaetz: but with precompiling python, is there a gain in power efficiency compared to c? that was the point of MarcOchapeau Mar 18 09:16:45 sakkara: of course not. i doubt anyone wpuld claim that Mar 18 09:17:23 yeah and that was the point.. Mar 18 09:18:12 is there a way i can get a sleek web-ui to the shr-git? Mar 18 09:19:52 tomboy64: like git.shr-project.org ? Mar 18 09:20:12 how can i distinguish the revisions? Mar 18 09:20:23 e.g. associate the commits with dates? Mar 18 09:20:51 gah Mar 18 09:20:54 forget that Mar 18 09:20:57 thanks :) Mar 18 09:29:56 * spaetz discovers pypy, a python compiler/interpreter suited for mobilee devices Mar 18 09:33:23 * dent wonders if there are any C++-ish people around Mar 18 09:33:59 i.e. anobody inclined to do something for the FR in C++ Mar 18 09:34:55 as it seems to me to be a c/vala/python party in here :) Mar 18 09:36:07 dent: hehe look for qt fanboys :P Mar 18 09:36:25 dent: maybe Mar 18 09:36:41 dent: i prefer C, but sometimes i mix C/C++ Mar 18 09:37:05 sakkara: my problem is I like SHR :) Mar 18 09:37:24 just investigating the landscape :) Mar 18 09:37:40 I used tobe a C person, but my job spoiled me... so cound me as a C++ fanboy :) Mar 18 09:37:46 counT Mar 18 09:39:25 i.e. having C++ bindings for FSO framework would be neat :-P Mar 18 09:39:32 i also like c++ more then c, but on x86 Mar 18 09:40:06 * mrmoku wonders what keeps dent from just doing it? :P Mar 18 09:40:17 on fr i like c elementary a lot, good job raster has done / is doing Mar 18 09:40:34 mrmoku: nothing... I'm just looking form complices :) Mar 18 09:41:00 + I'm quite dbus-clueless, so... reading and investigating, I am Mar 18 09:41:19 * mrmoku is doing c++ mainly in day job... so count me as interested :-) Mar 18 09:41:25 wow :) Mar 18 09:41:37 * dent actually does c++ + SH4 + wince (yuck!) Mar 18 09:41:53 wince... ouch ;) Mar 18 09:41:57 yeah... Mar 18 09:42:14 but recently we ported to linux... used FR to test it :) Mar 18 09:42:27 :) Mar 18 09:43:37 we have to do some windows mobile stuff too :( Mar 18 09:43:51 (not me personally though :-) Mar 18 09:51:49 I'll do some more poking Mar 18 09:52:35 and then I might do a call-for-fanbois :) Mar 18 09:53:43 mickey|zzZZzz: i'd appreciate aa quick runthrough/writeup on how to get started with elm-vala development Mar 18 09:54:31 eg how to set up valac, so i can compile for thhe FR Mar 18 10:17:58 compiling fucking vala package fails with "valac" not found Mar 18 10:18:16 of course it doesn't exist, I want to cmpile it! Mar 18 10:18:20 * spaetz is annoyed Mar 18 10:30:11 * spaetz installs old ubuntu valac in order to compile recent vala Mar 18 10:35:30 release versions are self-hosted, git versions need the last released versions installed to compile Mar 18 10:38:30 Yep, found that Mar 18 10:38:41 downloaded release tarball, that contained .c sources Mar 18 10:39:08 now valac complains that it can't find it's own .so in /usr/local/lib Mar 18 10:39:33 although it was compiled with that prefix and I don't want to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH just for vala Mar 18 10:39:39 * spaetz *sighs* Mar 18 10:40:16 well, LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib valac works... Mar 18 10:46:53 never had such problems, which system are you on? Mar 18 10:57:46 standard ubuntu amd64 Mar 18 10:57:56 ldd /usr/local/bin/valac Mar 18 10:58:05 libvala.so.0 => not found Mar 18 10:58:17 fun, same here Mar 18 10:58:20 it's in /usr/local/lib Mar 18 10:58:21 (without the error) Mar 18 10:58:39 PaulFertser? Mar 18 10:58:55 that was the last release compiled. Now trying the latest git, perhaps that helps Mar 18 10:59:56 Ainulindale: yes? Mar 18 11:00:01 Ainulindale: good morning Mar 18 11:00:08 'morning Mar 18 11:00:14 Sorry, I answered my question myself Mar 18 11:00:35 Nice Mar 18 11:05:38 PaulFertser: by the way do you want me to ask my girlfriend for the visa thing? Mar 18 11:05:49 It might be a good thing to do that now Mar 18 11:07:38 Ainulindale: i think i know how to get visa, it's just a hassle. I need to get (first) tickets, then some paper from my work, some paper from my bank _and_ some paper proving i have accomodation. Basically that's enough. The accomodation paper is what bothers me. And that whole visa thing sucks, i wished there were no borders, like in EU... Mar 18 11:08:08 Ainulindale: and a special international ID card is required too, but i already have that. Mar 18 11:08:30 PaulFertser: for the accomodation that's not a problem Mar 18 11:08:46 I think alphaone or stefan_schmidt or shoragan can provide that for braunschweig Mar 18 11:10:24 Ainulindale: those stupid EU rules drive me nuts. I can go to almost any tent camp and have accomodation. Why do i have to book it in advance for that visa thing? I just can't understand that. So far, thanks for the offer, but i guess i'll manage to get visa (i know how to do it) if i decide to go (i know, i should do it fast or it'll be too late). Mar 18 11:10:44 Then do it now else I'll spank you Mar 18 11:11:48 Yes sir Mar 18 11:12:45 :-) Mar 18 11:13:14 Ainulindale: Accomodation and a place for 20-30 people to hold a meeting should be manageable here Mar 18 11:13:23 neat :-) Mar 18 11:13:58 As long as you bring your sleeping bags :-) Mar 18 11:14:43 alphaone: punks don't need sleeping bags ;) Mar 18 11:14:52 Other accomodation would be more expensive and farther away Mar 18 11:14:52 Would a sleeping condom be enough? Mar 18 11:14:59 Hehe, alright Mar 18 11:15:17 Ainulindale: Whatever makes you happy :-) Mar 18 11:15:37 Wine, good beer, and naked women Mar 18 11:16:06 yes and yes and if you bring some Mar 18 11:17:50 Ainulindale: What is the current date for FSOSHRUDCON? Mar 18 11:17:51 Haha, alphaone ran out of stock of naked women. Mar 18 11:18:22 We have plenty of naked women here, they're just all wearing clothes. Mar 18 11:18:33 Anyway Mar 18 11:19:30 Does anyone ever seen a credible report of _any_ good (read working in other GSM phones) simcard not working after calypso FW upgrade? Mar 18 11:19:41 alphaone: no definitive date Mar 18 11:19:48 we're waiting for people updating the page Mar 18 11:19:53 okay Mar 18 11:19:55 page? Mar 18 11:20:01 I'd like to settle this by the end of the week Mar 18 11:20:04 alphaone: http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/FSOSHRUDCON%2709 Mar 18 11:20:07 alphaone: wiki page Mar 18 11:20:13 * alphaone is a little preoccupied at the moment.. Mar 18 11:21:31 Okay, need to update Mar 18 11:22:24 because May 9th is bad for me.. Mar 18 11:22:40 Please put new dates if you feel like it Mar 18 11:22:50 And if you manage to find the availabilities of other people it's good Mar 18 11:23:30 mickey|lunch: just for the record, I compiled with LD_RUN_PATH=/usr/local/lib/ make Mar 18 11:23:41 and now it finds the .so. Mar 18 11:23:55 (DOn't know if that was the cahnge that made it work in the end though) Mar 18 11:25:56 oh shit, even this works now on my lappie: Mar 18 11:25:57 libeflvala/examples/vapi$ ./elementary-vapi Mar 18 11:26:12 and beautiful it is. color me impressed Mar 18 11:30:29 Ainulindale: Your wiki doesn't want to send me mails :-( Mar 18 11:30:56 Must be a french wiki :-) Mar 18 11:34:52 what do I need to bitbake to get a cross-compiling toolchain? Mar 18 11:43:11 using edje_editor the first time ever, can I insert Tables and stuff too? Mar 18 11:43:18 I only se Rectangle, Image, etc Mar 18 11:43:53 no - edje added those more recently Mar 18 11:43:57 hasnt made it to edje_editor Mar 18 11:44:19 ok, can I still add them manually to the edje files? Mar 18 11:44:25 * spaetz needs to check edje docs Mar 18 11:49:32 yes Mar 18 11:52:25 hey raster Mar 18 11:52:47 raster: would you be so kind as to edit http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/FSOSHRUDCON%2709 with your availabilities, if you're interested in coming? Mar 18 11:52:48 Ainulindale: allo mon cher :) Mar 18 11:52:54 (Perhaps adding dates?) Mar 18 11:53:10 hnnn Mar 18 11:53:18 not availabel any of thsoe dates Mar 18 11:53:21 add some more? Mar 18 11:53:24 yep Mar 18 11:53:35 add any as long as it's on a week-end Mar 18 11:54:39 because anyway, alphaone or mickey|lunch are not available at the same time Mar 18 11:55:05 24/25 might be best Mar 18 11:55:06 for me Mar 18 11:55:11 Of may? Mar 18 11:55:14 yeah Mar 18 11:55:18 good here too Mar 18 11:55:29 and anyway I'll make myself available Mar 18 11:55:43 just registering Mar 18 11:55:48 good afternoon Mar 18 11:55:58 hey ptitjes Mar 18 11:56:10 ptitjes: yo Mar 18 11:56:16 ptitjes: spent 20 minutes yesterday trying to start the engine of my car Mar 18 11:56:30 arf! what happened ? Mar 18 11:56:31 Ended up starting it eventually Mar 18 11:56:36 and this morning, couldn't manage to Mar 18 11:56:44 so no work :!) Mar 18 11:56:45 seems to be the anti-start protection Mar 18 11:56:46 :) Mar 18 11:56:55 unfortunately when the repairman came in Mar 18 11:56:57 it started Mar 18 11:57:22 SO anyway they'll probably bill for 100 euros for a reparation I have no idea about Mar 18 12:00:43 he has some magic fingers Mar 18 12:02:02 Hi Sup3rkiddo Mar 18 12:02:09 Sup3rkiddo: hello! Mar 18 12:02:29 playya, ptitjes, ola :D Mar 18 12:02:33 hey Sup3rkiddo Mar 18 12:02:40 ptitjes, any news about fso +shr meeting? Mar 18 12:02:41 willing to go to FSOSHRUDCON? :-) Mar 18 12:02:46 playya: there's a wiki page Mar 18 12:02:51 http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/wiki/FSOSHRUDCON%2709 Mar 18 12:02:53 Ainulindale, hi :D Mar 18 12:03:13 Ainulindale, was that for me?... Mar 18 12:03:22 Sup3rkiddo and playya: you are needed too for FSOSHRUDCON'09! Mar 18 12:03:25 Sup3rkiddo: yes Mar 18 12:03:28 Vala in force :) Mar 18 12:03:35 mickey|lunch: SHR + Paroli, you want enemies? :-) Mar 18 12:03:37 heh Mar 18 12:03:48 airfare gulp :( Mar 18 12:03:55 I think this will make a good talk! Mar 18 12:04:06 Yeah, I was mainly joking :-) Mar 18 12:04:31 Ainulindale: arf me too :) Mar 18 12:04:49 no it's not true. I'm really convinced this will make a good talk Mar 18 12:04:50 oh. i didn't that theres a libgmock Mar 18 12:04:55 grrr Mar 18 12:04:59 wheres the confirmation mail! Mar 18 12:05:16 playya: still in incubation Mar 18 12:05:38 Ainulindale, air fare from India is a bit high, you know :D Mar 18 12:05:44 playya: working on libgreflect for now (reflection and dynamic proxies for G) Mar 18 12:05:57 i thought of something similar as a bachelor thesis. and libgunit Mar 18 12:06:11 playya: but once we have libgreflect, implementing libgmock will be quite straight forward Mar 18 12:06:38 the glib test suite is really limited Mar 18 12:06:52 playya: did you look at the existing testing frameworks for G ? Mar 18 12:07:01 I heard of GTester Mar 18 12:07:05 I think there are more Mar 18 12:07:44 i want GUnit :) Mar 18 12:07:52 héhé :) Mar 18 12:08:01 only because auf 50 Cent and a nice trial :P Mar 18 12:08:16 playya: so maybe you'll use g-i or the above greflect to get access to annotations ? Mar 18 12:08:18 :) Mar 18 12:09:12 raster: I don't think you need one anyway Mar 18 12:09:26 to edit i do Mar 18 12:09:27 maybe it would be nice to code own modules for vala so xaou can have a [Test setup=true] in vala Mar 18 12:09:35 raster: a confirmation mail? I don't think so Mar 18 12:09:48 Warning: Your permissions have been limited until you verify your email address Mar 18 12:09:54 grmbl Mar 18 12:10:01 let me enable you then Mar 18 12:10:19 :) Mar 18 12:10:33 and anyway I'll give you the same permissions as the FSO guys Mar 18 12:10:38 might be useful for e things Mar 18 12:10:42 playya: you can already use any custom annotations in vala (we use it for libmodulo) these are pushed to gir and then to typelib Mar 18 12:10:51 raster, i did an xtrace while e was uning 30% cpu on the FR Mar 18 12:10:59 raster: you should have the good permissions Mar 18 12:11:00 and.... ? Mar 18 12:11:01 :) Mar 18 12:11:09 xtrace.. thats a new one Mar 18 12:11:23 playya: thus you can retrieve that data dinamycally thanks to gobject-introspection or the layer above I'm developping GReflect Mar 18 12:11:30 http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/~jluebbe/e.trace.bz2 Mar 18 12:11:33 Ainulindale: nup. still waiting for verification Mar 18 12:11:33 grr Mar 18 12:11:35 shoragan: hello Mar 18 12:11:36 waiting for email Mar 18 12:11:55 Hmpf the smtp must be slow today :-/ Mar 18 12:11:59 shoragan: could you set your availability on the http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/FSOSHRUDCON%2709 page please Mar 18 12:12:08 That's weird because I received the mail notification for your subscription Mar 18 12:12:32 raster, i've looked at the source why it might do these sync requests, but i haven't found an obvious problem Mar 18 12:12:51 well anyway I'm a bit tired right now I'm going to read a bit Mar 18 12:12:56 I'll be back Mar 18 12:13:07 let me check the prices of the linux hotel and might add mine too Mar 18 12:13:17 shoragan: oooh x trace and is xscrop etc. Mar 18 12:13:22 xscope Mar 18 12:13:39 24/25 sounds good here Mar 18 12:13:40 raster, i used http://xtrace.alioth.debian.org/ for this Mar 18 12:13:48 we have a OE package for that now Mar 18 12:14:31 argh. mickey isn't available on 1/2/3 Mar 18 12:15:08 hmmm Mar 18 12:15:13 getinputfocus Mar 18 12:15:14 wtf? Mar 18 12:16:17 it seems ecore uses getinputfocus to flush/sync the x connection Mar 18 12:16:44 raster, ich did 'date >> e.trace' 3 times Mar 18 12:17:03 alphaone: of april. that's good to me too! Mar 18 12:17:06 so you can estimate how often these calls occour Mar 18 12:17:24 s/\./\?/ Mar 18 12:17:25 thats too many syncs for no reason Mar 18 12:17:49 ptitjes: I meant MAy Mar 18 12:18:17 alphaone: so 23/24 ? Mar 18 12:18:20 :) Mar 18 12:18:50 aha Mar 18 12:18:55 But 24/25/26 of April sounds fine as well Mar 18 12:18:55 confirm email finally Mar 18 12:19:06 But a little soonish for planning.. Mar 18 12:19:24 ptitjes, alphaone not a good idea. i'll have an enourmous headache on 23.5. Mar 18 12:19:28 yeah, 22/23/"4 Mar 18 12:19:39 heh Mar 18 12:20:09 playya: no probs! I talked softly :) Mar 18 12:20:27 22th is my birthday and 23th/24th is thursday and friday Mar 18 12:20:44 So you can celebrate with us! Mar 18 12:21:11 heyho Mar 18 12:21:34 but then everyone will have a "kater" Mar 18 12:21:48 there Mar 18 12:21:51 I bet I wont Mar 18 12:21:53 put it 22/23/24 Mar 18 12:22:02 linux hotel is really expensive Mar 18 12:22:19 alphaone, you don't drink alcohol? Mar 18 12:22:30 Not so much Mar 18 12:22:52 playya: Only for businesses Mar 18 12:23:47 ok. but i would be good if the meeting is in Nordrhein Westfalen. I have to bring 10 servers there :) Mar 18 12:24:03 100eur isnt too bad Mar 18 12:24:10 standard single room Mar 18 12:24:56 looks like a nice old mansion house Mar 18 12:25:00 <-- poor little student Mar 18 12:25:27 thats not too bad really - in the scheme of things Mar 18 12:25:44 i've had to pay 400eur/night before Mar 18 12:25:47 raster: if you're looking for a weekend, check some 'business' hotels. They are epxensive on weekdays, but often rather empty during weekend and you can often get very attracitve rates if you book several rooms. And they are well equieped (conf rooms etc) Mar 18 12:25:50 (in other hotels) Mar 18 12:26:07 FilipLinux4: 100eur isnt bad for me Mar 18 12:26:14 i normaly pay 40-70€ Mar 18 12:26:27 FilipLinux4: consider this. i will be spending about 2000eur just to get there... Mar 18 12:27:32 argh. enna just segfaults instead of having a double free in dbus hal Mar 18 12:27:43 if people really want - 4rooms look like they have 2 beds Mar 18 12:27:47 people could share Mar 18 12:28:14 noone wants to share a room with me mwithout oropax Mar 18 12:28:36 oropax? Mar 18 12:29:07 some kind of wool for your ears so can't here anymore Mar 18 12:30:30 aaaah Mar 18 12:30:37 i'll pay my 100eur then :) Mar 18 12:30:57 you'll there too? Mar 18 12:31:49 well that depends when its on Mar 18 12:32:02 right now - people are debating a time Mar 18 12:35:40 shoragan: ok - here's my guess Mar 18 12:35:47 whats your e fps set to? Mar 18 12:35:51 (e framerate) Mar 18 12:35:56 hmm, default Mar 18 12:36:34 30fps i think Mar 18 12:37:07 theres a bit more than 30 getinputfocus;'s there Mar 18 12:37:12 likely an xsync - yes Mar 18 12:37:20 as that'd be a bizarre thig for e to call Mar 18 12:37:25 thats an animator ticking Mar 18 12:37:34 so an animation is taking place Mar 18 12:37:50 or e thinks there is one Mar 18 12:37:54 (or ecore) Mar 18 12:38:04 and only about once a second is it drawing something Mar 18 12:38:06 let mne guess Mar 18 12:38:13 battery is charging so every second the + blinks? Mar 18 12:38:19 (well glow comes and goes) ? Mar 18 12:45:59 no i know why e_hal* isn't called. i disabled it in enna :) Mar 18 12:47:47 raster: vala-efl example from mickey works wonderful Mar 18 12:47:53 I am very much impressed Mar 18 12:48:35 vala-efl? juhu Mar 18 12:49:14 the example app is 34k big (star background, 2 buttons, moving fog) Mar 18 12:53:08 raster, are you using enna? Mar 18 12:57:49 raster, yes, it was connected via usb and was probably charging Mar 18 13:00:55 raster, it may also have something to do with checking the desktop files Mar 18 13:01:19 sometimes forcing e to reload them, 'fixes' this problem Mar 18 13:01:33 forcing by moving a .desktop file there Mar 18 13:06:11 raster: when not charging it shows the same cpu usage Mar 18 13:06:45 raster: and even when removing the battery gadget... Mar 18 13:15:40 raster: is there any option to determine which widget a Evas_Object represents? Mar 18 14:06:04 MORPHIS! Mar 18 14:06:17 GOTCHA Mar 18 14:06:19 :-) Mar 18 14:06:40 I wanted to use sliders for the timeout settings and I am nearly done, just one problem Mar 18 14:07:03 I cannot retrieve the current slider value Mar 18 14:07:14 as value_set() has a binding but value_get() not Mar 18 14:07:36 and the Slider.data dict is empty, so I cannot get any value from there too Mar 18 14:07:58 could it be as simply as adding a 2 line value_get wrapper to python-elementary? Mar 18 14:08:14 * spaetz is sure he overlooked something blatantly obvious Mar 18 14:32:09 debian-on-FR+illume: is there a way to enforce illume to pop-up the screen with zhone whenever there is an incoming call? Mar 18 14:32:44 ptitjes, a friend told me that it is possible to book as a community @ linux hotel Mar 18 14:33:31 playya: it is not sure yet where the event will happen Mar 18 14:33:37 linux hotel is one possibility Mar 18 14:34:07 yes. Mar 18 14:34:39 linux hotel might be the best for me Mar 18 14:34:55 hello Mar 18 14:35:04 hi Mar 18 14:35:12 I've a problem... Mar 18 14:35:46 ptitjes: well that is what stefan said ;) It's five bugs a day and person... for the conference room (including coffee) Mar 18 14:35:48 with shr-testing, if I keep the usb connected but remove the battery, the gsm phone layer is off Mar 18 14:36:07 you can sleep in the conference room if you want to... or put up a tent in the park :-) Mar 18 14:36:38 and I'm not able to read sms on the sim also Mar 18 14:36:58 yes. what about a FSOSHRCamp? Mar 18 14:37:46 i have a web'n' walk stick Mar 18 14:37:58 UMTS flatrate for 5€ a day Mar 18 14:38:22 playya: internet (including wifi me thinks) is also included :D Mar 18 14:39:42 mrmoku, should be included for linux hotel Mar 18 14:39:53 and you have drinks for free Mar 18 14:39:58 beer too? Mar 18 14:42:05 lets proof the ballmer peak: http://xkcd.com/323/ Mar 18 14:42:56 a21_work: where's the problem? this is expected behaviour Mar 18 14:43:18 playya: i don't think alcoholic drinks are free Mar 18 14:43:28 a21_work: calypso is powered by battery Mar 18 14:47:55 DocScrutinizer: ah, sorry... I tought it was all on the same electrical rail at downstream Mar 18 14:49:21 a21_work: np Mar 18 14:50:39 bumbl, about 5€ extra Mar 18 14:54:04 DocScrutinizer: so this is the cause also of battery drain when fullcharged and kept connected on usb? calypso continue to suck charge from battery? Mar 18 14:54:32 PaulFertser: alas alsa hooks function is terribly poor documented. Still I fear we need a ALSA patch for implementing ability to call arbitrary exe/deamon, as it seems genuine hooks only call alsalib functions Mar 18 14:55:04 a21_work: basically yes Mar 18 14:56:11 a21_work: plus a missconfig of PMU which doen't start trickle charge on bat being drained eventually Mar 18 14:56:16 DocScrutinizer: as we have source, we can go without documentation, extending alsalib can't be a big problem either. Mar 18 14:56:22 mh :P ugly but at least now I can understand ^_^' tnx DocScrutinizer Mar 18 14:56:45 PaulFertser: yup that's what I thought as well Mar 18 14:56:52 a21_work: welcome Mar 18 14:57:12 good morning mickeyl Mar 18 14:57:42 morning playya Mar 18 14:58:31 PaulFertser: a simple execve() or syscall() (whatever, no clue) call shouldn't be hard to implement in alsalib Mar 18 14:59:22 hi mickeyl :) Mar 18 15:00:01 hello mickeyl Mar 18 15:00:59 cheers folks Mar 18 15:01:17 PaulFertser: and it's for sure better to have a FRspecific alsalib (which is the case anyway) than to adapt every app to cope with mixer/scenarios Mar 18 15:01:28 DocScrutinizer: does calypso is the only component feeded only from the battery? Mar 18 15:01:37 yup Mar 18 15:01:40 DocScrutinizer: i agree. Too bad it's considered to be a low priority even by the community. Mar 18 15:03:11 ptitjes, linux hotel might out ou rooms on 8.-10. Mar 18 15:03:26 as mentioned before: I considered to publish a RFC yesterday Mar 18 15:04:14 the ubuntuusers.de team has a meeting ther Mar 18 15:04:32 eventually I might actually do Mar 18 15:08:23 (8.-10.) hmm, chances for me to join are getting better Mar 18 15:13:56 PaulFertser: (low prio) at least lindi- would disagree I guess ;-) Mar 18 15:14:24 DocScrutinizer: if I put a supercap between pin 1 and 3 of the connector con1701 (battery connector)... could be of any use for what I'd like to do? Mar 18 15:14:35 DocScrutinizer: yeah, lindi- is the guy who knows what is right and what is wrong. Mar 18 15:15:01 ptitjes, the community price is 60€/weekend*person Mar 18 15:16:10 a21_work: might work if you config PMU charging accordingly Mar 18 15:17:02 i.e. keep charging at constantV and not auto-disable it Mar 18 15:19:37 a21_work: however notice the modem might draw more current than PMU is capable to supply, so depending on your GSM-RF situation (poor coverage) this may fail unpredictably Mar 18 15:21:51 not as long as you're not registering to network though Mar 18 15:23:41 PaulFertser: (lindi) he's the guy who knows about statefile combinatoric explosion nastiness a little Mar 18 15:36:11 mickeyl: libeflapi request: Elm.parent_get Mar 18 15:38:30 s/Elm/Evas/,g right? Mar 18 15:39:00 hmm what's the "," in "/,g"? Mar 18 15:39:09 a typo ;) Mar 18 15:39:11 typo, Mar 18 15:39:13 ? Mar 18 15:39:14 ahh Mar 18 15:39:32 thought I may learn sth ;-) Mar 18 15:40:06 mmh maybe I was netsplitted from the chan... Mar 18 15:40:21 DocScrutinizer: could you point me in the right direction? where I can find the source files about PMU programming? Mar 18 15:40:23 mickeyl: nearly right Mar 18 15:40:33 mompl Mar 18 15:40:33 smart_parent_get Mar 18 15:40:35 for gta02 Mar 18 15:40:38 will add it to Evas Mar 18 15:40:41 mickeyl: ultimately it is evas.smart_parent_get Mar 18 15:41:34 but there is also: Mar 18 15:41:35 EAPI Evas_Object * Mar 18 15:41:35 elm_widget_parent_get(const Evas_Object *obj) Mar 18 15:41:56 in http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/TMP/st/elementary/src/lib/elm_widget.c Mar 18 15:42:07 a21_work: a first poor pointer: http://people.openmoko.org/tony_tu/GTA02/datasheet/PMU/PCF50633UM_6.pdf Mar 18 15:42:10 well, that's invisible to me Mar 18 15:42:13 since it's in a C fie Mar 18 15:42:15 ok Mar 18 15:42:33 I see Mar 18 15:42:45 i just need to write a test for it, give me some minutes Mar 18 15:42:46 tnx Mar 18 15:42:53 a21_work: NXP is supposed to have a more recent one on their website Mar 18 15:43:05 hehe, no so urgent. just playing with efl-vala Mar 18 15:43:37 trying to achieve something shr-settings like in vala Mar 18 15:44:16 a21_work: my local docs name the file as PCF50633UM2.00.pdf Mar 18 15:44:22 maybe google helps Mar 18 15:46:01 DocScrutinizer: do you think a patch could be of some use for anyone or I'm the only one who want what I like ? Mar 18 15:47:41 I don't think you need a patch probably. /sysfs should do the trick. Though I dunno how strng is kernel's affinity towards interfering with whatever you configure there "by hand" Mar 18 15:49:32 LOL---> 2.3 : – Battery remains fully charged after charging as long as an external power supply is connected Mar 18 15:49:34 also seems FSO is doing a constant reenabling of charger to cope with the "draining bat during charge" issue. So any "patch" would have to be a rather comprehensive diversified one Mar 18 15:49:37 ;) Mar 18 15:50:43 a21_work: as a related note, Werner wrote an utility (called pmu) that allows to easily modify any PMU register. Get it from svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner Mar 18 15:50:57 a21_work: that's for PCF50633, not taking in account we drain bat via bypassing the PMU all tgeher Mar 18 15:51:48 ah, yeah... forgive me Mar 18 15:52:32 anyway... do you know why was choosen that design? :S Mar 18 15:53:25 tnx PaulFertser Mar 18 15:54:20 a21_work: the calypso specs required "uber-clean" power supply afaik Mar 18 15:56:15 a21_work: that's the reason why there's no power switch at all on GTA01 even. Mar 18 15:58:08 I see Mar 18 15:58:41 a21_work: proved to be wrong as gta02 works with power switch as well. Mar 18 15:59:36 but... every device using a calypso chip uses this design? mmh Mar 18 15:59:57 s/uses/adopt/ Mar 18 15:59:57 a21_work meant: but... every device using a calypso chip adopt this design? mmh Mar 18 16:01:19 a21_work: ask Doc, he should know better. Mar 18 16:01:20 PaulFertser: nope, it's correct as the switch on GTA02 only switches logical section of calypso. RF-poweramp still "unswitched" (except by logic) Mar 18 16:02:15 a21_work: every mobile using this design, as the power requirements of RF-poweramp are quite demanding. No matter calypso or nay other chipset/module Mar 18 16:02:26 raster: elm objects have a different parent/child relationship than evas smart objects? if so, can you make elm_widget_parent_get public then? evas_smart_object_parent_get always returns NULL for every elm object Mar 18 16:04:49 * DocScrutinizer away Mar 18 16:04:55 fine... but... a capacitor and a power regulator... would not be enough? Mar 18 16:05:03 ok, no matter Mar 18 16:05:12 see you DocScrutinizer , tnx a lot Mar 18 16:09:25 U don't need a power regulator, but you need a huuuuuuge fill-in cap. Spikes are up to 5A for several tens to hundereds of ms Mar 18 16:10:54 ballpark values Mar 18 16:13:43 so bat is smaller than this huge cap ;-) simple as that Mar 18 16:16:21 DocScrutinizer: so that clean power is not really a requirement of calypso, but a requirement of an RF amp? Mar 18 16:16:25 btw that's a reason for old bats failing so miserably sometimes even with enough capacity for long standby time left. Inner resistance (source impedance) getting too high thus GSM failing when sending is causing spikes on current Mar 18 16:16:34 PaulFertser: yup Mar 18 16:17:06 DocScrutinizer: does it drain power when the phone is off btw? Mar 18 16:17:21 RF-power is related 1:1 to Voltage. Volgage is depending on source impedance and current drawn Mar 18 16:17:47 nope, RF-amp is down to a few uA on "standby" Mar 18 16:18:59 * PaulFertser wonders why it wasn't obvious when GTA01 was planned. It'd be no need to modify firmware for AT@POFF etc... Mar 18 16:19:07 where's my BREAKFAST!?!?! Mar 18 16:19:22 paul: don't wonder too hard, you'll break yourself. :) Mar 18 16:19:55 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r4010404f1c01 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): ogsmd: [FREESCALE NEPTUNE] use more multiplexing channels to catch all unsolicited responses Mar 18 16:21:11 mickeyl: doing unsol one chan, dialog another? :-) nice Mar 18 16:24:30 alphaone: do you know you already had a "alphaone" account? Mar 18 16:25:25 DocScrutinizer: the neptune is special, you can't enable or disable unsolicited URCs, they're fixed :/ Mar 18 16:25:37 some come via one mux channel Mar 18 16:25:39 some via another one Mar 18 16:25:43 kind of annoying, actually Mar 18 16:27:15 mickeyl, the calypso seems to have a bug/race condition trigged by the new unso handling Mar 18 16:27:36 the %EM commands produce broken output sometimes Mar 18 16:27:57 cid and lac which are longer than 2 bytes Mar 18 16:27:57 e.g.? Mar 18 17:12:58 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re616740ab11c 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/freescale_neptune/ (channel.py mediator.py modem.py): ogsmd: [FREESCALE NEPTUNE] response to +COPS? can be corrupt, take this into account Mar 18 17:13:48 lindi-: your letter arrived :-) Mar 18 17:14:02 DocScrutinizer: remember to add caps for rhkfin too :) Mar 18 17:14:08 np Mar 18 17:14:18 anything else? Mar 18 17:14:55 a couple a' useles S3C2440 cpu? Mar 18 17:15:02 DocScrutinizer: what would i do with that? ;) Mar 18 17:15:05 :) Mar 18 17:15:22 glue it to a wall maybe ;D Mar 18 17:17:34 DocScrutinizer: there are many other finns who would like to get their phones fixed but unfortunately i'm not sure if my coworker who does the fix for me has time to do it for anyone else Mar 18 17:19:08 lindi-: if you're going to organize a buzzfix party similar to the ne in Braunschweig or workshop at SHRFSOCON, I'm sure I can get a sufficient number of components for you Mar 18 17:19:32 DocScrutinizer: note that i don't have the skills really Mar 18 17:19:48 DocScrutinizer: but my coworker and apparently rhkfin's coworker do :) Mar 18 17:20:48 lindi-: well I can't probably help on that (except someone at radio obs or university is willing to pay a ticket for me ;D ) Mar 18 17:21:12 DocScrutinizer: we are quite poor, have to constantly struggle to get funding Mar 18 17:21:26 just kidding :) Mar 18 17:21:48 DocScrutinizer: but if you ever visit finland then it's an another story ;) Mar 18 17:23:41 so gimme a number of how many of these saltgrains to stick at the scotchtape Mar 18 17:24:01 is 5 R and 3 C enough? Mar 18 17:26:38 shoragan: the %EM output looked rather crappy most of the time to me, at least in parts Mar 18 17:27:27 DocScrutinizer, i never had that specific problem before we switched to the new unso handling Mar 18 17:28:00 this error is also only seen in the cellhunter db entries from new frameworkd Mar 18 17:28:40 shoragan: well, I'm talking about some of the values not making sense at all. No idea about the particular recent problem Mar 18 17:29:13 can something be done about that from the FW side? Mar 18 17:29:23 shoragan: maybe Dieter might have a look into that, explaining and possibly fixing things Mar 18 17:29:32 also we have no neighbour cells during a call Mar 18 17:29:55 that's particularly strange Mar 18 17:31:22 shoragan: is there a ticket or sth anywhere? my connectivity stalled after ""[2009-03-18 17:27:57] e.g.?" Mar 18 17:32:36 no, but i have some logs Mar 18 17:32:43 will create a ticket Mar 18 18:09:37 Ainulindale: I had a "daniel" contact Mar 18 18:09:52 But firefox misliked it when I logged in Mar 18 18:10:05 Some sort of recursion/loop thing Mar 18 18:10:16 Even lynx didn't like it... Mar 18 18:12:02 DocScrutinizer: (S3C2440) Yeah, bring some the next time we see each other :-) Mar 18 18:12:21 http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/wall.jpg Mar 18 18:13:09 alphaone: k :D Mar 18 18:13:33 Thanks :-) Mar 18 18:55:26 alphaone|gone: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/impressions-of-25C3/ Mar 18 18:58:04 DocScrutinizer: no proper beer there? Mar 18 18:58:23 bumbl: nah just becks Mar 18 18:58:29 DocScrutinizer: That should have been S3C6410's Mar 18 18:58:38 baeh Mar 18 18:59:14 * stefan_schmidt_ prepares the last things for the boarding holiday Mar 18 18:59:19 holidays Mar 18 18:59:46 bumbl: that's why I preferred coffee in the first place Mar 18 18:59:50 stefan_schmidt_: have fun Mar 18 19:00:05 bumbl: thanks, I hope so. Mar 18 19:00:21 stefan_schmidt_: yup, enjoy! Mar 18 19:02:45 DocScrutinizer: What are the SOT-23-3 components? Mar 18 19:03:12 dunno from top of my head. some switch or transistor Mar 18 19:03:29 have a bag of ~3000pcs Mar 18 19:03:58 Hehe :-) Mar 18 19:05:13 any working fennec builds? Mar 18 19:05:21 did it get faster? Mar 18 19:06:23 * DocScrutinizer looks at his desk and notices the arrangement of uSD resembles the one of chips at 25c3 by now :D Mar 18 19:08:05 hmm Mar 18 19:09:28 does the neo support being mounted as sshfs by default? Mar 18 19:09:51 not by default afaik Mar 18 19:12:08 hmm... what time is it in california? Mar 18 19:12:22 .-9h from DE Mar 18 19:13:05 spaetz: thanks :-) Mar 18 19:13:26 np Mar 18 19:13:43 DocScrutinizer: do you know what additional staps i have to do (afaik sshfs only requires sftp which should be enabled by default) Mar 18 19:14:27 spaetz: I found UTC-9 on wikipedia... though TZ='UTC-9' date does not give the expected result :P Mar 18 19:14:41 nah sftp works out of the box, but you need fuse for sshfs afaik Mar 18 19:15:14 DocScrutinizer: but only on the side that wants to mount the freeruner or do i misunderstand something Mar 18 19:15:52 bumbl: a year ago since I did that last time. no idea Mar 18 19:16:09 hmm ok Mar 18 19:16:18 i'll try it out later Mar 18 19:17:48 bumbl: i'm quite sure crippled busybox&dropbear setup won't support it anyway Mar 18 19:18:19 prolly you at least need decent sshd on FR Mar 18 19:18:32 :/ Mar 18 19:18:41 it would be easier than setting up nfs Mar 18 19:19:03 sure, nfs is crap anyway Mar 18 19:19:37 DocScrutinizer: got anything better? ;) Mar 18 19:19:44 samba Mar 18 19:19:47 * bumbl hides Mar 18 19:20:05 bumbl: does it support unix permissions? Mar 18 19:20:16 hehe Mar 18 19:20:21 * mwester wonders why we stick with crippled dropbear on the phone; even SlugOS on a system with 8MB of flash and 32MB of RAM uses openSSH. Mar 18 19:20:43 yup, ack Mar 18 19:21:05 lindi-: ;) Mar 18 19:21:10 that was a joke Mar 18 19:21:31 Ainulindale: PING!!!! Let's switch SHR to a proper sshd; perhaps mickey|sports will move FSO if we do it. Mar 18 19:21:58 mwester: +1 from me Mar 18 19:22:20 lindi-: acl is not that bad Mar 18 19:23:47 mwester: btw.. do you know if using mdev would have implications regarding the planned use of connman? Mar 18 19:23:53 * mrmoku saw some connman-udev plugin... Mar 18 19:24:03 mrmoku: what does mdev do exactly btw? Mar 18 19:24:24 lindi-: replace (parts) of udev... create device nodes Mar 18 19:25:02 mwester: +1 here Mar 18 19:25:20 mrmoku: and uses less ram? Mar 18 19:25:21 and kill busybox en passent Mar 18 19:25:38 lindi-: ram I don't know... its faster though Mar 18 19:25:47 (might as well use less ram...yeah) Mar 18 19:25:52 i just switched from busybox syslog to real syslog when i hit irritating bug in busybox Mar 18 19:26:15 lol, there's enough of them Mar 18 19:27:04 half of cmds FUBAR Mar 18 19:27:23 I think neither mwester nor juri_ would appreciate replacing busybox though :P Mar 18 19:27:40 meeeeeee would Mar 18 19:28:22 mdev is more for embedded devices Mar 18 19:28:40 busybox su Mar 18 19:28:41 cks Mar 18 19:28:58 when we could have coreutils+openssh Mar 18 19:29:03 but busybox is slim Mar 18 19:29:22 and free space in gta01 flash is rare :P Mar 18 19:30:39 rare? try nonexistant. ;) Mar 18 19:30:56 hmmm... anybody with google account around? care to check if we're accpeted? Mar 18 19:30:59 duh I had linux running on desktop PC when the HD was smaller than NAND in GTA01 Mar 18 19:31:01 juri_: :-) Mar 18 19:31:28 http://socghop.appspot.com/org/apply_mentor/google/gsoc2009 Mar 18 19:32:03 mrmoku: you don't have a gmail account? Mar 18 19:32:11 bumbl: NOOOOOO Mar 18 19:32:20 what for??? Mar 18 19:32:21 * mrmoku loves his privacy :P Mar 18 19:32:57 mrmoku: privacy is dead Mar 18 19:33:05 with and without google Mar 18 19:33:06 yep... heard about that... Mar 18 19:33:09 get over it Mar 18 19:33:31 will do so... but won't accelerate it ;) Mar 18 19:33:56 for me that reads: "those are dead that take my privacy" ;-) Mar 18 19:34:08 bumbl: but... as you have one... care to check? Mar 18 19:34:28 * mrmoku wants to know if there will be some nice female students at FSOSHRUDCON :P Mar 18 19:34:49 mrmoku, where would i have to look? Mar 18 19:35:01 link some lines above Mar 18 19:35:15 http://socghop.appspot.com/ is the main page Mar 18 19:35:37 mrmoku, what did you apply as, was what i meant? Mar 18 19:35:37 mrmoku: are you accepted? Mar 18 19:35:39 if you click on published the list... it request sign in Mar 18 19:35:40 and use the best mail provider for the 0815 user who don't have a it solutions company in the ack Mar 18 19:35:44 s/ack/back/ Mar 18 19:35:45 bumbl meant: and use the best mail provider for the 0815 user who don't have a it solutions company in the back Mar 18 19:35:49 * DocScrutinizer votes for ommitting the "UD", sounds way too strange Mar 18 19:35:50 PaulFertser: I can't check without google account Mar 18 19:35:56 mrmoku: normal google account does not work Mar 18 19:36:31 bumbl: haha... need a special 'give-away-ALL-privacy' account probably ;) Mar 18 19:36:59 is it possible to customize the app that comes up with a FR AUX button press? Mar 18 19:37:09 bumbl, you have to create a profile, then you can view the sites Mar 18 19:37:14 spaetz: it is software, surely you can customize it? Mar 18 19:37:15 I'd love to have the profile selector come up. I never use the simple lock Mar 18 19:37:27 mrmoku, i don't see openmoko or shr in the "accepted organizations" Mar 18 19:37:33 selecting silent profile should be much easier Mar 18 19:37:35 mrmoku: it let me in Mar 18 19:38:29 in addition, lock is available when i press the POWER butotn Mar 18 19:38:34 * DocScrutinizer googles "SHRUD" Mar 18 19:39:13 mrmoku: can't find neither fso nor shr :( Mar 18 19:39:16 * spaetz gives up on a vala-shr-settings app. would take me ages at the speed. I get stuck with silly stuff all the time Mar 18 19:39:20 no wonder Mar 18 19:39:24 google has android Mar 18 19:39:33 openmoko is a potential enemy Mar 18 19:39:43 PaulFertser: kde was accepted i hope Mar 18 19:40:27 bumbl: yes Mar 18 19:41:09 so GSoC is through for OM Mar 18 19:41:56 * DocScrutinizer SHRUGs Mar 18 19:48:19 shit... will have to code ourselves then ;) Mar 18 19:49:37 :) Mar 18 19:49:43 spaetz: lock on power button is different... it's the full lock that does not work on the FR Mar 18 19:50:12 and I remapped it to simple-lock.... which was no good idea - can lock then... but never unlock :P Mar 18 19:50:24 lol Mar 18 19:50:45 classic deadlock Mar 18 19:51:08 yep :-) Mar 18 19:51:44 spaetz: ask questions if you need Mar 18 19:51:53 spaetz: maybe I can help Mar 18 19:51:56 hello I'm trying Xorg glamo driver, it finally compiles fine but I get ENODEV during iopl() call resulting in error: "xf86EnableIOPorts: no I/O ports found Mar 18 19:51:56 " Mar 18 19:52:10 jc: what version of Xorg? Mar 18 19:52:19 spaetz: maybe we should start a different project with vala... like home-screen? Mar 18 19:52:42 lindi-, 1.3.0 I think Mar 18 19:52:51 lindi-, yes Mar 18 19:53:03 jc: i suggest 1.5 Mar 18 19:53:08 jc: 1.3 needs patches Mar 18 19:53:10 lindi-, allright Mar 18 19:53:18 jc: with 1.5 you can run unmodified Xorg Mar 18 19:53:23 * DocScrutinizer is going to give UMTS&bloed6.1&PAN&N810 another chance Mar 18 19:53:34 jc: what distro are you using? Mar 18 19:53:39 lindi-, we in Gentoo apply some patches to xorg but I'm not sure if they hep Mar 18 19:53:50 jc: ah Mar 18 19:54:15 lindi-, thanks for the tip :) Mar 18 19:54:20 jc: i'd suggest going to Xorg 1.5 simple because that is how xf86-video-glamo is tested Mar 18 19:54:29 jc: dös heppt nedd Mar 18 19:54:29 s/simple/simply/ Mar 18 19:54:30 lindi- meant: jc: i'd suggest going to Xorg 1.5 simply because that is how xf86-video-glamo is tested Mar 18 19:55:11 lindi-, I think xorg 1.5 doesnt have arm keyword in gentoo, so thats why it didn't get installed in the first place :/ I'll unmask it and try :) Mar 18 19:55:34 ptitjes: thanks. Mar 18 19:55:46 mrmoku: what's an homescreen app? Mar 18 19:55:51 jc: also note that xserver-xorg-input-tslib needs a patch to support xrandr Mar 18 19:56:02 jc: it's in openwrt and debian (soon) Mar 18 19:56:04 lindi-, I got tslib all patched up :) Mar 18 19:56:09 jc: not tslib, xserver-xorg-input-tslib Mar 18 19:56:09 even the right click works ;P Mar 18 19:56:24 yeah, the input driver tslib wrapper, sorry :P Mar 18 19:56:29 jc: ok Mar 18 19:56:30 I manage to get up a main menu with buttons just fine. And when I press a button, the category module window is shown. Mar 18 19:56:31 spaetz: an app showing missed calles... messages... other stuff Mar 18 19:56:33 spaetz: I think this is like the om today app Mar 18 19:56:35 mrmoku: we/you should create a todo-list of apps shr needs(tm) Mar 18 19:56:46 jc: i even got transparency work out-of-the-box with Xorg Mar 18 19:56:51 today app is one Mar 18 19:56:51 I just don't manage to show stuff on the module window Mar 18 19:57:10 jc: do you know anything about how to make a window transparent? i only found 'transset' command Mar 18 19:57:12 mrmoku: that would require dbus calls o find out about that stuff Mar 18 19:57:13 lindi-, I have glxgears 20fps in 100x100 window in Xorg with fbdev ;P Mar 18 19:57:17 are there any? Mar 18 19:57:23 bumbl: hehe yeah... somebody should summarize the ideas Mar 18 19:57:25 jc: it's not a benchmark :) Mar 18 19:57:26 If yes, that would indeed be feasable Mar 18 19:57:40 lindi-, no idea, does glamo even support true argb ? Mar 18 19:57:48 jc: i don't know Mar 18 19:58:02 lindi-, I think e libs work over that but theyre kinda slow Mar 18 19:58:17 jc: but i'm talking about the commandline interface to controlling which windows are transparent Mar 18 19:58:17 spaetz: dbus calls... and maybe some sqlite for the missed calls Mar 18 19:58:31 * bumbl has lost his shr-wiki passwd somewhere on his backup hdd Mar 18 19:58:33 lindi-, well I didn't try that... Mar 18 19:58:36 jc: dunno, no e here Mar 18 19:58:58 lindi-, btw one person on gentoo-openmoko tried the glamo driver already and said xrandr works but cursor doesn't rotate Mar 18 19:59:07 lindi-, maybe thats what you were talking about Mar 18 19:59:27 unfortunately hes not here to say more.. Mar 18 19:59:29 jc: cursor rotates if you patch tslib Mar 18 19:59:43 lindi-, ok thanks for the info ;) Mar 18 19:59:51 jc: or it depends on what "cursor does not rotate" means Mar 18 20:00:11 lindi-, I dunno what he meant, he just said this.. Mar 18 20:00:41 bumbl: http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/reset_password Mar 18 20:00:50 no excuses ;) Mar 18 20:01:00 mrmoku: we will change this quite quickly in fact Mar 18 20:01:13 ptitjes: what? Mar 18 20:01:13 (sql queries) Mar 18 20:01:28 :) Mar 18 20:03:37 ptitjes: you're talking about vala ophonekitd? Mar 18 20:04:02 kind of yeah Mar 18 20:04:06 :) Mar 18 20:05:05 mrmoku: we need to define that gui protocols between ophonekitd and gui apps Mar 18 20:05:29 mrmoku: that would require to remember the correct username (wheter it is "bumbl", "Bumbl", "bumbl3x3", "Bumbl3x3", "bumbl_shr" Mar 18 20:06:20 (i registerd back at bearstech.org times if that makes a difference Mar 18 20:06:22 ) Mar 18 20:06:24 ) Mar 18 20:06:56 bumbl: there is Bumbl in autocompletion when assigning a ticket Mar 18 20:07:17 without email Mar 18 20:07:23 The email and username do not match a known account. *grr* Mar 18 20:08:04 I don't have the rights for user management on the trac (me thinks) Mar 18 20:08:06 Ainulindale: ping Mar 18 20:08:11 mrmoku: forget it Mar 18 20:08:19 * bumbl goes and grabs his external hdd Mar 18 20:08:45 :-) Mar 18 20:09:04 * mrmoku thought that hdd might be broken... instead bumbl was just lazy :P Mar 18 20:09:15 mrmoku: you're know trac admin Mar 18 20:09:17 -k Mar 18 20:09:37 ahh... admin page looks different now :-) Mar 18 20:09:40 i have to recover my passwords anyway sooner or later (those that i don't know by hard) Mar 18 20:09:52 Ainulindale: thanks Mar 18 20:10:42 is there an easy way to decrypt a firefox signons2.txt + key2.db Mar 18 20:14:43 * DocScrutinizer embraces KWallet Mar 18 20:15:56 bumbl: rot13 ? ;D Mar 18 20:16:13 DocScrutinizer, lol Mar 18 20:16:25 rot13 /etc/passwd ^^ Mar 18 20:16:40 XD Mar 18 20:16:53 or the infamous rot13 ssh encryption mechanism Mar 18 20:34:02 DocScrutinizer, rot13 is obsolete. use rot26 !! Mar 18 20:34:36 nah use rot13 *twice*. much better, and backward compatible Mar 18 20:36:17 hi Mar 18 20:36:30 how do i have to turn on wifi on shr unstable ? Mar 18 20:36:45 peter_b: go in the settings app... Connectivity Mar 18 20:36:48 ~rot13 nah use rot13 *twice*. much better, and backward compatible Mar 18 20:36:48 anu hfr ebg13 *gjvpr*. zhpu orggre, naq onpxjneq pbzcngvoyr Mar 18 20:36:50 there is a switch Mar 18 20:37:13 mrmoku : not for me :-( Mar 18 20:37:26 i only get the test and the gprs module Mar 18 20:37:41 * mrmoku checks Mar 18 20:38:16 peter_b: in Connectivity... you do not have Wifi Radio as first item? Mar 18 20:38:26 right Mar 18 20:38:57 no Mar 18 20:39:03 my mistake Mar 18 20:39:14 :-) Mar 18 20:39:21 forget everything Mar 18 20:39:31 my finger must have slipped before ... Mar 18 21:15:07 ptitjes: I need to leave now, but here is my vala-settings attempt Mar 18 21:15:09 http://github.com/spaetz/vala-settings/tree/master Mar 18 21:15:33 just "make" should compile the elementary app "./settings" Mar 18 21:15:57 if you have elementary and mickey's vala-efl installed Mar 18 21:16:09 anyone can check this package? http://www.kasjo.ry.pl/Openmoko/ipk/xboard_4.2.7_armv4t.ipk Mar 18 21:16:20 pls :) Mar 18 21:16:21 kasjo: where's the source? Mar 18 21:16:44 but I don't get the module windows to show sometihing but a background Mar 18 21:16:46 one sec.. Mar 18 21:16:57 (even background image works, but no label etc) Mar 18 21:17:06 anyway, need to leave for today Mar 18 21:17:31 http://www.tim-mann.org/xboard.html Mar 18 21:17:39 kasjo: with apt it'd be 0,4 seconds to type (apt-get source xboard) ;) Mar 18 21:17:41 its xboard and gnuchess Mar 18 21:18:01 kasjo: that page does not say anything about ipk Mar 18 21:18:14 kasjo: or did i miss it? Mar 18 21:18:27 so, while documenting my first patch in my private kernel tree, i find a grevious bug in a function.. that does the same thing as a function in processor.h, only ours is broken. Mar 18 21:18:38 People really never read patches. Mar 18 21:18:45 i only compile this sources Mar 18 21:19:01 ok nvm. Mar 18 21:24:14 i wrote a simple watchdog that makes sure the phone stays registered to gsm network even if calypso/gsm0710muxd/ogsmd gets stuck. any idea how I should restart clients of ogsmd (dialers etc.)? Mar 18 21:24:56 the dialers are running as normal user and i don't know of a good way to even know what clients were talking to ogsmd when it got restarted Mar 18 21:25:09 should the dialers handle restart of frameworkd? Mar 18 21:27:43 lindi-: btw, when are you going to try fso-abyss? :) Mar 18 21:27:56 PaulFertser: does it compile with debian? Mar 18 21:28:04 PaulFertser: or are valac patches still needed? Mar 18 21:28:05 lindi-: haven't tried yet :) Mar 18 21:28:19 i'm not sure if i want to go that route :/ Mar 18 21:28:27 it'd mean i'd be soon hunting compiler bugs :P Mar 18 21:28:29 lindi-: i guess one need to install valac from repos and then compile the git source of vala anyway. Mar 18 21:28:42 PaulFertser: hrm Mar 18 21:29:23 hi Mar 18 21:30:10 a question:SHR phone suite includes a UI for sending/receiving files with BT? Mar 18 21:30:25 PaulFertser: regardless of what system i use i need good automated testing and automatic detection of failures and recovery from them Mar 18 21:30:26 are there any plans about it? Mar 18 21:30:53 admiral0: are there any such apps? Mar 18 21:31:06 lindi-: yeah, i've read your discussion about watchdog. Well, good plan :) Mar 18 21:31:07 admiral0: (in any desktop distro) Mar 18 21:31:20 lindi-: bluemoko Mar 18 21:31:31 it supports only audio Mar 18 21:31:38 PaulFertser: now i just need to add the "report bugs automatically to trac.freesmartphone.org" option;) Mar 18 21:32:03 but the author intends to add this functionality too Mar 18 21:32:48 receiving files would require a daemon, the first i thought of was ophonekitd Mar 18 21:33:10 admiral0: sounds like serious wheel reinventing Mar 18 21:33:27 admiral0: are you sure no (desktop) distro has software to transfer file over bluetooth Mar 18 21:33:27 lindi-: why? Mar 18 21:33:42 admiral0: i have transfered files over bluetooth with rsync while using bluetooth networking Mar 18 21:33:44 i am sure FSO has something Mar 18 21:33:52 in zhone i think Mar 18 21:34:01 mrmoku, any workaround to the block-screen not working? Mar 18 21:34:14 admiral0: zhone does nothing wrt bluetooth Mar 18 21:34:18 lindi- there is a tool obextool Mar 18 21:35:04 admiral0: then use it? ;) Mar 18 21:35:12 PaulFertser ok, i saw only something that looked like zhone and wes doing something with bluetooth Mar 18 21:35:28 obextool is command-line Mar 18 21:35:58 hmm Mar 18 21:41:13 admiral0: sounds odd if nobody has ever transfered files over bluetooth ;) Mar 18 21:41:22 admiral0: what does N770 use? Mar 18 21:42:06 bluez Mar 18 21:42:16 as N800 Mar 18 21:42:18 admiral0: they have UI for that? Mar 18 21:42:19 as N810 Mar 18 21:42:24 i dunno Mar 18 21:42:48 admiral0: i'm sure they don't require their users to use a command-line app ;) Mar 18 21:44:39 me too Mar 18 21:49:38 Sharwin_F: the simple lock? Mar 18 21:49:47 mrmoku, with aux button Mar 18 21:49:49 not that I know :( Mar 18 21:50:00 it's not working on 13th March image Mar 18 21:50:09 yep... for me too Mar 18 21:50:32 lindi- i cannot find it Mar 18 21:50:37 mrmoku, the thing is that I had an upgraded image from before and it worked Mar 18 21:50:50 admiral0: asked some nokia rep? ;) Mar 18 21:51:06 Sharwin_F: hmm... and then you reflashed and it broke? Mar 18 21:51:06 anyways, i better get some sleep Mar 18 21:51:12 mrmoku, that's it Mar 18 21:51:34 lindi- 'night Mar 18 21:51:39 but I noticed some other differences Mar 18 21:52:14 with the upgraded from repos image I had, on the E menu to quit and suspend, I didn't had images on the suspend and log off buttons, just text Mar 18 21:52:30 lindi- http://www.nokia770.com/65 ??? Mar 18 21:52:39 uhh... I might have an idea... Mar 18 21:53:38 no locking screen => can't listen to music on the metro => boooooooring morning Mar 18 21:53:40 xD Mar 18 21:54:24 hmm... no Mar 18 21:56:59 Sharwin_F: the keycode is missing from the keybindings... Mar 18 21:57:05 at least frameworkd gets the signal Mar 18 21:57:22 2009.03.18 22:56:35.844 odeviced.input INFO name AUX pressed 0 Mar 18 21:57:22 2009.03.18 22:56:35.936 odeviced.input INFO name AUX released 0 Mar 18 21:59:10 Sharwin_F: ok... you will be able to listen music tomorrow morning :D Mar 18 21:59:16 mrmoku, :D Mar 18 21:59:19 tap on the illume wrench Mar 18 21:59:27 go to input Mar 18 21:59:29 libeflvala.git am i dreaming? :O :O Mar 18 21:59:33 tap on add key Mar 18 21:59:41 press the aux button Mar 18 21:59:52 (it should show Keycode-177) Mar 18 22:00:11 and on the right side select 'Desktop Simple Lock' Mar 18 22:00:18 (have to scroll around a little :) Mar 18 22:00:25 after that apply and you're done :-) Mar 18 22:00:53 mrmoku, yeah man! Mar 18 22:00:59 :-) Mar 18 22:01:20 mrmoku, what I've seen has also changed is that the screen doesn't get blank anymore Mar 18 22:01:33 yep... Mar 18 22:01:47 is that a bug also? Mar 18 22:02:36 well... what changed is that we set the timeouts for the illume blanking to Off Mar 18 22:02:45 because frameworkd is supposed to handle that Mar 18 22:03:11 don't know if that is the reason though... Mar 18 22:03:47 anybody here familiar with ogpsd? Mar 18 22:04:18 Sharwin_F: setting a timeout does not help though :( Mar 18 22:04:30 budfive5: a bit. Do you have problems with it? Mar 18 22:05:09 PaulFertser: yeah. I'm running the newest shr-testing, and get no fix. with the latest kernel, i get no data at all out of fso-gpsd Mar 18 22:05:12 Sharwin_F: guess the reason is burried somewhere in frameworkd configuration... rules.yaml probably Mar 18 22:05:20 mrmoku, ok :) Mar 18 22:05:33 PaulFertser: with a 2.6.24 kernel, I get data from fso-gpsd, but it seems to be wrong Mar 18 22:05:37 mrmoku, what's auto-dimming for? Mar 18 22:06:06 PaulFertser: Turning on the DEBUG loggin in fso, it looks like the GPS never switches to UBX and tries parsing the NMEA data as UBX, which fails of course Mar 18 22:06:26 isn't auto-dimming on saying it should get blank? Mar 18 22:06:34 budfive5: hm, i guess that was reported several times and discussed but the real reason wasn't found... Mar 18 22:07:06 PaulFertser: ok. i didn't seel it reported before. I'll look at it more deeply then Mar 18 22:07:21 PaulFertser: Do you know if there's a ticket somewhere? Mar 18 22:07:31 budfive5: let me try to find it. Mar 18 22:08:16 Sharwin_F: frameworkd does 'xset -display :0 s activate' ... and that does not work Mar 18 22:08:49 budfive5: the cool site of lindi- http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/cgi-bin/openmoko-bugs.py?q=nmea makes searching OM bugtracker as easy as it should be. Mar 18 22:09:27 mrmoku, may this be the reason? : Mar 18 22:09:28 $ ps -ef | grep xset Mar 18 22:09:28 root 3056 1437 0 23:05 ? 00:00:00 [xset] Mar 18 22:09:34 spaetz: still here? Mar 18 22:09:41 budfive5: in this particular case i'm yet to find the bug report i think of Mar 18 22:09:43 Sharwin_F: guess it is related :-) Mar 18 22:10:55 budfive5: maybe this: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2180 ? Mar 18 22:11:14 I think I'll start a TODO entry in the shr wiki to bother you even more xD Mar 18 22:11:42 :-) go ahead Mar 18 22:11:50 budfive5: 2.6.28 from shr-testing is too old and doesn't include the fix :( Mar 18 22:13:04 PaulFertser: whoa. that bug sounds nasty. I've tried some newer kernels, but the 2.6.24 series still work much better for me (both in terms of functionality and performance) Mar 18 22:13:40 PaulFertser: is there some place where semi-stable 2.6.28 kernels are imaged, or do you build your own? Mar 18 22:15:15 budfive5: i'm using 2.6.29 for quite some time already :) Mar 18 22:15:34 Sharwin_F: try doing 'xset -display :0 s blank' Mar 18 22:15:36 budfive5: i guess http://people.openmoko.org/andy/ is the place Mar 18 22:15:55 budfive5: but i build my own Mar 18 22:16:02 Sharwin_F: after that the timeout might work (or not) Mar 18 22:17:58 PaulFertser: ok. i tried andy's latest a few days ago. It was much slower than some 2.6.24 I had lying around, and had various issues, like fso-gpsd sending out no data at all, and the shr-settings not working. sigh. Mar 18 22:24:48 budfive5: i think it worth investigating... I haven't tried an old kernel for several months... Mar 18 22:27:47 It sounds to me like you guys have kernel soup. Don't feel alone. ;) Mar 18 22:28:02 budfive5: and i can suggest you to install zhone just because it has fancy gps screen with sat list (and checks for almanac/ephemeris). Mar 18 22:28:50 budfive5: and it doesn't use a compatibility layer (fso-gpsd). Mar 18 22:29:44 * PaulFertser thinks he should finally stick internal gps antennae back, because he can't test gps without it :) Mar 18 22:31:39 PaulFertser: could attach external one Mar 18 22:32:13 DocScrutinizer: if i had it, yes Mar 18 22:33:20 There's no particular reason for me not to use the internal, just i was assembling it "temporarily" and decided to not stress the connector without need. Now it seems that "temporarily" for me is pretty much "permanentely" :) Mar 18 22:34:36 usual way things go along Mar 18 22:38:11 DocScrutinizer: there's a famous saying of one of our politicians: "Wanted to do better, the result is as usual". Mar 18 22:42:47 lol. I heard that somewhere before. russian commonsense to the point ;) Mar 18 22:44:38 He's even mentioned at english wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Chernomyrdin#Chernomyrdin.27s_idioms Mar 18 22:46:00 damn y Mar 18 22:46:09 impossible to pronounce properly Mar 18 22:46:36 abend.... I'm fighting bitbake Mar 18 22:46:46 and I wonder, where does bitbake -s get the version numbers from? Mar 18 22:47:24 in sane-srcrevs.inc I see it comes form bitbake -s... Mar 18 22:47:34 but I'm lost as for where bitbake -s gets it Mar 18 22:47:36 PaulFertser: so i just tested andy's newest prebuild 2.6.29, and it's also getting NMEA when it expects UBX. If it works for you, can I get a copy of your kernel uImage, so I can see if the kernel is to blame? Mar 18 22:49:02 budfive5: sorry, i haven't tested gps for some time because of the reasons mentioned and i don't know which kernel i was using when i checked last time (i'm sure it was .28 or .29 though). Mar 18 22:50:30 uSD-gsm? Mar 18 22:51:09 PaulFertser: ok. i suspect it's the userspace. let me run some more experiments. thank you Mar 18 22:51:59 budfive5: btw, i think if you have any other problems with the latest kernels, you better report them :) Mar 18 22:52:17 budfive5: do you have any suspicious "overrun" messages in dmesg? Mar 18 22:53:10 PaulFertser: i don't remember; will look at it in a bit. are any "overrun" messages abnormal? Mar 18 22:53:44 budfive5: i guess yes, especially during actual data exchange (as opposed to powering on/off). Mar 18 22:55:05 budfive5: here's the report somewhat similiar to yours: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/265 Mar 18 22:55:30 PaulFertser: as for reporting problems, so many components are in flux, that it's hard to report a problem in a useful way. For example, I'm seeing andy's latest image booting much slower than whatever random 2.6.24 image I have lying around. But I have no idea how to create a useful ticket about this. Thoughts? Mar 18 22:56:27 PaulFertser: reading the ticket... Mar 18 22:56:58 budfive5: andy's "moredriver" image includes too much comparing to .24. Probably you should compile "defconfig" and then look through the dmesg starting log (it has timemarks). Mar 18 22:57:50 budfive5: as a first step it helps if you can specifiy the actual issue/problem acurately. Mar 18 22:58:38 PaulFertser: sigh. yes. ok. that's more involved than i'd like, but yeah; it's better. ok. i guess i'm building a kernel. Mar 18 22:59:13 budfive5: are you sure it's the kernel? Mar 18 22:59:16 budfive5: you don't need the whole OE to do that, any armel toolchain is enough afaics. Mar 18 22:59:36 PaulFertser: yeah, i've done it before. Mar 18 22:59:39 Kensan: i guess it's good to have an ability to build any kernel you want anyway. Mar 18 23:00:15 PaulFertser: yes, but it might not make your bugreport more acurate if it turns out to be an init issue ;) Mar 18 23:01:39 PaulFertser: thanks for that bug report. It's exactly what i'm seeing Mar 18 23:01:40 budfive5: as to the boot time, mrmoku did some measurements with "bootchart" (?) recently, probably you can talk to him to discuss/reproduce results. And both FSO and SHR use 2.6.28 kernel for long time without serious issues. Mar 18 23:02:40 budfive5: are you using shr-unstable? shr-testing has fixed FSO rev, shr-unstable follows git. I use FSO and zhone from git directly (and that means i can revert to any version any time). Mar 18 23:03:33 PaulFertser: testing. i want to see if the bugreport you sent me will fix my gps issue. then I'll deal with the kernel things. I've got time tonight Mar 18 23:03:52 budfive5: and you can apply the patch from the ticket directly on your device, python doesn't require recompilation :) Mar 18 23:04:04 PaulFertser: way ahead of you :) Mar 18 23:04:27 PaulFertser: I fear this project will make me actually learn python at some point :) Mar 18 23:04:47 budfive5: there's bootchart-lite in openembedded which works fine. Mar 18 23:05:04 I didn't made me do that yet, but i can understand FSO code without any significant difficulties. Mar 18 23:06:12 Well, good night for now, my time is well ahead (GMT+3) of yours ;) Mar 18 23:07:09 night paul Mar 18 23:07:17 PaulFertser: spokoynoy nochi Mar 18 23:07:18 PaulFertser: hehe.. good night :-) Mar 18 23:08:34 See you guys :) budfive5, udachnogo vechera! :) Mar 18 23:24:03 does the FR charge while suspended? Mar 18 23:24:08 over usb Mar 18 23:25:35 johnsu01: it wakes when plugged here Mar 18 23:27:27 wha'ts the plan for shr and wifi? Is mofi the tool of choice? or are there some other plans? Mar 18 23:28:23 hm, it's sad that when waking up from suspend wifi loses its essid Mar 18 23:28:44 i know Mar 18 23:29:15 i thought about tyring to improve mofi, but i'm not sure if that's they way to go? Mar 18 23:29:30 wifi should be smarter Mar 18 23:30:14 like i want to have wifi automagicaly connected to my essid when it's plugged in with the power adaptor Mar 19 00:08:20 ha... I managed to build (and use) recent libdbus-c++ :) Mar 19 02:30:14 is there a particiular reason SHR uses an older kernel than FSO? Mar 19 02:30:30 What breaks if we bump up to the same version as FSO? Mar 19 02:30:38 :x Mar 19 02:30:41 Kensan! Mar 19 02:37:20 mwester: last time I tried shr with a newer kernel lots of things segfaulted Mar 19 02:37:28 including the phone dialer Mar 19 02:38:22 scientific I know, bit just sayin' Mar 19 02:42:07 yoyo, what's difference between theory and practice? A: In theory there's no diference between theory and practice. In practice there actually is Mar 19 02:42:30 johnsu01: that's the info I need, actually. I don't like it, but I need it! :D Mar 19 02:43:16 I'll have to go dig up that version in the kernel history, extract it, find the SHR defconfig, then branch, patch, and I'll have a kernel. Yuck. Mar 19 02:43:42 that's theory Mar 19 02:43:44 ;) Mar 19 02:45:13 Murphy dares not enter my office; I'm sure it'll all be fine. Mar 19 02:46:21 murphy is quantum physics. Doesn't fit into large unified theory Mar 19 02:47:28 so probably this means Murphy doesn't fit into your office Mar 19 02:49:09 * DocScrutinizer whistling a sad melody, waiting for the guys in white Mar 19 02:57:37 uh oh Mar 19 02:57:38 :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 19 02:59:57 2009