**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 03 18:36:14 2009 Apr 03 18:36:30 c-ts is immensely over-rated Apr 03 18:36:35 yep Apr 03 18:36:59 a r-ts as e.g. the g1 has it could do all the nifty gestures too Apr 03 18:37:23 so far nobody could tell me a killer-argument for c-ts Apr 03 18:37:42 DocScrutinizer: the buzz word Apr 03 18:37:49 :) Apr 03 18:37:54 yup, nothing else Apr 03 18:42:31 OM is pretty badly cluster fucked, aren't they? Apr 03 18:43:13 you just noticed? Apr 03 18:43:32 hehe Apr 03 18:44:33 TAsn: yes Apr 03 18:44:42 you need a failure under your belt Apr 03 18:44:48 well seems sean did another great job of pubishing some facts the most possible negative way (or even beyond) Apr 03 18:44:49 before you can succeed Apr 03 18:44:57 lindi-, just wanted to know what values you are now using for volumes (in and out) and if you are satisfied with them. Apr 03 18:44:59 DocScrutinizer, which ones? Apr 03 18:45:04 isn't this Sean's second failure? Apr 03 18:45:04 I want to change them myself as well. Apr 03 18:45:08 do you experience echo? Apr 03 18:45:56 TAsn: http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/gsmhandset.state Apr 03 18:46:04 Sargun: his speech? Apr 03 18:46:32 Sargun: what are we talking bout anyway Apr 03 18:46:37 lindi-, thanks. Apr 03 18:47:09 DocScrutinizer, didn't listen to the speech Apr 03 18:47:13 lindi-: it worked out for you with 63? Apr 03 18:47:25 DocScrutinizer, Didn't sean run some project to create some other hand set that failed? Apr 03 18:47:43 DocScrutinizer: yes Apr 03 18:47:57 DocScrutinizer: how do we get the word out so that people can fix their sound settings+ Apr 03 18:48:06 Sargun: I only know of gta03 Apr 03 18:48:11 well sean seems as if he were an intelligent men Apr 03 18:48:26 Sean likes the matrix... A lot. Apr 03 18:48:35 but he still does not know how to inform customers properly imo Apr 03 18:48:43 SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r3ffe9eae9ae4 10/openembedded/packages/ffalarms/ (9 files in 2 dirs): add recipes for ffalarms and atd-over-fso Apr 03 18:48:52 SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r36478b45e6e0 10/openembedded/conf/distro/include/shr-autorev-unstable.inc: Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@shr.bearstech.com/shr-overlay Apr 03 18:49:10 lindi-: I thought nytowl included a correct gsmhandset.state in the current git-tree or whatever. Apr 03 18:49:28 DocScrutinizer: that should be added to debian then too Apr 03 18:49:36 lindi-: if that's not the case, I may publish some note on wiki Apr 03 18:49:47 DocScrutinizer: why was it wrong in the first place btw? just a mistake? Apr 03 18:50:10 yup, from beginning ;-) Apr 03 18:50:49 DocScrutinizer: what do I have to look at to check if SHR has a sane one? Apr 03 18:51:15 check for control63="mic2" Apr 03 18:52:31 name 'Mic Sidetone Mux' Apr 03 18:52:31 value 'Right PGA' Apr 03 18:52:50 bzzzz wrong! Apr 03 18:53:04 DocScrutinizer: funny .. i thought he actually made it sound good :) Apr 03 18:53:10 thought so... Apr 03 18:53:33 wpwrak: who's he?? Apr 03 18:53:42 DocScrutinizer: cap: for me the killer argument is that it gives me a screen that's flat. no bezel. Apr 03 18:53:54 DocScrutinizer: sean, wrt breaking the news Apr 03 18:54:36 wpwrak: (sean) lol. (bezel) see samsung omnia: NO bezel Apr 03 18:55:42 wpwrak: there's basically no relation between bezel and type of ts Apr 03 18:55:50 DocScrutinizer: correct. same approach. give me an r-panel with the same characteristics and i won't complain :) Apr 03 18:56:32 so please stop to hype c-ts as "THE solution" ;-D Apr 03 18:56:55 DocScrutinizer: hmm... alsa-scenarios in OE is getting the state files from om svn... Apr 03 18:57:06 and that is still the wrong version... Apr 03 18:57:18 DocScrutinizer: i don't care about whether cap or r. i dismiss the limitations of cap because i wouldn't consider a gui that requires any better resolution as usable anyway. and i haven't seen an available r solution that fits the bill. Apr 03 18:57:22 *sigh" Apr 03 18:57:28 DocScrutinizer: so i'm happy with cap :) Apr 03 18:57:52 mrmoku: cat /dev/alsa/state ? ;-) Apr 03 18:58:10 wpwrak: happy!=asking-for Apr 03 18:58:17 mrmoku: can't be worse than what we currently have :) Apr 03 18:58:28 s/asking/demanding/ Apr 03 18:58:56 DocScrutinizer: seems that we can get cap. don't know about r. i know that common r has issues wrt scratchability and all that. Apr 03 18:59:09 DocScrutinizer: so cap is lowest risk in my book Apr 03 18:59:27 wpwrak: if OM had asked me 8months ago they never had started to look for that c-ts for 03 Apr 03 18:59:35 DocScrutinizer: and it's good enough (see the gui argument) Apr 03 19:00:02 for me its not Apr 03 19:00:09 DocScrutinizer: oh, but om never asks :) Apr 03 19:00:18 and seems I'm not alone Apr 03 19:00:36 DocScrutinizer: if it's good enough for the iphone, i'll sleep like a baby ;-))) Apr 03 19:00:44 basically Wolf & sean never ask Apr 03 19:00:55 bah Apr 03 19:00:59 iphone Apr 03 19:01:34 everybody here has NO iphone, and I guess for some reason Apr 03 19:01:50 DocScrutinizer: hard to assess wolfgang. sean creates enough chaos to overshadow the potential merits of people below him. Apr 03 19:02:08 who's first to yell "me, me. I got" ;-) Apr 03 19:02:32 ok, agreed Apr 03 19:02:55 mrmoku: any eta on the possible unstable-->testing? (and will a reflash be nescessary?) Apr 03 19:02:58 DocScrutinizer: iPhone = something that works in the market, also on the technical side. that's good enough for me. gta02 = something that doesn't, not even on the technical side. i don't like that :) Apr 03 19:03:10 but still they didn't bother to give me a single-line mail asking for implications Apr 03 19:03:28 hmm i didn't like it when i had a hands-on experience Apr 03 19:03:32 DocScrutinizer: the whole communication process in openmoko is fucked up Apr 03 19:03:39 wpwrak: so go buy an iphone ;-) Apr 03 19:03:43 DocScrutinizer: at various levels. Apr 03 19:03:59 bumbl_: what was it that you disliked ? Apr 03 19:04:00 wpwrak: doesn't the g1 use r-ts Apr 03 19:04:08 with multitouch functionality Apr 03 19:04:28 sure, may well be the case (g1) Apr 03 19:04:48 DocScrutinizer: i have two *beautiful* gta03 cap ts in my possession ;-) have you ever seen them ? Apr 03 19:05:04 mockups Apr 03 19:05:23 DocScrutinizer: i have the real ones. very very nice :) Apr 03 19:05:37 and first sample from far distance (had to contract some ensurence to touch it) Apr 03 19:06:46 I give a fsck for nice. I want my shell, 3G, and a full set of binutils Apr 03 19:07:08 ughghghg Apr 03 19:07:12 DocScrutinizer: i know i'm a sucker for good design :) if in doubt, i'll choose elegance over reason. must be some evolutionary instinct :) Apr 03 19:07:13 wpwrak: hard to say but i'd say what bugged me most was the keyboard, the low res, the case design, the fingerprints that stayed on the black forever and the fact that it didn't have a terminal Apr 03 19:07:15 I want wifi, and a decent browser Apr 03 19:07:52 bumbl_: yeah, fingerprints are very bad. low res is painful as well. looks "cheap". Apr 03 19:07:57 i liked the browser and the message app Apr 03 19:07:57 bumbl_: same here :) Apr 03 19:08:04 though Apr 03 19:08:39 wpwrak: are you allowed to share a photo of the possible-have-been gta03? Apr 03 19:08:40 mssgapp was kindy clumsy though, due to crap kbd Apr 03 19:08:46 yeah Apr 03 19:09:00 but the general chatlike style rocks Apr 03 19:09:16 bumbl_: dunno. but i think some sneak previews will find their way if there's progress. Apr 03 19:09:28 wpwrak: that's a very interesting question indeed Apr 03 19:09:52 DocScrutinizer: well, considering that sean has written it off already ... :) Apr 03 19:10:27 wpwrak: hehe, could add that to our overlay (urandom) :-) Apr 03 19:10:34 wpwrak> bumbl_: dunno. but i think some sneak previews will find their way if there's progress. <- as it is postponed i don't think there will be any progress this century Apr 03 19:10:35 DocScrutinizer: and perhaps it's time to learn a lesson. you're not limited by what you're allowed to do but by what you can get away with :) Apr 03 19:10:37 hey, go ahead increasing community's dispair then Apr 03 19:10:59 Zorkman: not yet... I'm away for easter holidays... you will have to spank Ainulindale for that Apr 03 19:11:12 DocScrutinizer: have you seen the black PCB ? Apr 03 19:11:31 bumbl_: ;-) Apr 03 19:11:34 yup Apr 03 19:11:36 cool Apr 03 19:11:54 DocScrutinizer: exactly ! particularly the speaker area Apr 03 19:12:50 well there's been some suggestions to ivorin... :) Apr 03 19:13:09 http://www.despair.com/hope.html Apr 03 19:13:09 DocScrutinizer: about the speaker ? Apr 03 19:13:21 and even Wolf iirc the places I pushed :D Apr 03 19:14:05 tully as well Apr 03 19:14:15 so... any way to get the good alsa states? I would really like to have them in SHR and could add a shr-alsa-scenarios package Apr 03 19:14:33 though my interest in 03 was close to 0 in the end Apr 03 19:15:09 ah, where's my favourite ... Apr 03 19:15:29 http://www.despair.com/sacrifice.html Apr 03 19:15:34 Ainulindale: spank span (mrmoku made me :p) any eta on the possible unstable-->testing? (and will a reflash be nescessary?) Apr 03 19:15:43 mrmoku: I could setup a folder to download some that are checked by me Apr 03 19:15:56 DocScrutinizer: that would be great :-) Apr 03 19:16:07 (check to be done ;) Apr 03 19:17:00 Zorkman: you might get away without reflash this time... without guarantees though :P Apr 03 19:17:12 mrmoku: ok, I'll setup sth during the weekend Apr 03 19:17:16 http://www.despair.com/proc24x30pri.html Apr 03 19:17:41 DocScrutinizer: take your time then... I'm offline from sunday on... for two weeks Apr 03 19:19:07 mrmoku: ok. but I'm terribly late on the whole "new audio api" rfc and related stuff anyway Apr 03 19:19:43 mrmoku: so probably this would be a good start Apr 03 19:27:31 I would need some help regarding neighbour cells: we only get LAC and CID for them, is it safe to say that they all belong to the MCC MNC of the serving cell? Apr 03 19:29:25 onen: that would need somebody who can test it near a border Apr 03 19:30:01 onen: since we can't read what the proprietary operating system does :( Apr 03 19:30:07 guess where i am nom ;D Apr 03 19:30:14 s/nom/now/ Apr 03 19:30:15 dos1 meant: guess where i am now ;D Apr 03 19:30:34 bumbl_: g1 is cap, limited multitouch in the hardware, not in the android software Apr 03 19:30:35 SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r4a109b16911d 10/openembedded/packages/ffalarms/ffalarms_0.2.1.bb: ffalarms: fix depends from atd to atd-over-fso Apr 03 19:30:37 dos1: already in Essen? Apr 03 19:30:45 would be a bit early ;) Apr 03 19:31:02 if you guess right, i will commit some things to shr-settings now ;) Apr 03 19:31:11 mrmoku: no ;D Apr 03 19:31:15 hmm, spent 6 hours today trying to port pdf reader from nokia N800 to debian Apr 03 19:31:20 well... I *know* you will commit anyway :P Apr 03 19:31:28 mrmoku: where am i programming? ;D Apr 03 19:31:31 dos1: ahh.. you're in train? Apr 03 19:31:41 lindi: that is the whole point. I have all the code to log neighbour cells. but so far, I cannot find someone to clearly say if it is safe or not at the border Apr 03 19:32:04 mrmoku: right ;) Apr 03 19:32:34 and here is reward Apr 03 19:32:34 SHR: 03dos 07shr-settings * r4e77d7500574 10/shr_settings_modules/shr_display.py: [display] use "changed" callback instead of timer Apr 03 19:32:35 dos1: IRC on FR directly? Apr 03 19:32:36 SHR: 03dos 07shr-settings * radad976bc301 10/shr_settings_modules/shr_profile.py: [profile] use Radios instead of Toggles Apr 03 19:32:36 SHR: 03dos 07shr-settings * r53f592565f4d 10/shr-settings-debug: [others] some (not so useful ATM) debug launcher Apr 03 19:32:37 SHR: 03dos 07shr-settings * r916fa44709b3 10/shr-settings: [core] add "ophonekitd not running" message Apr 03 19:32:39 SHR: 03dos 07shr-settings * ra28f26a76efa 10/shr_settings_modules/shr_gsm.py: [gsm] remove "ophonekitd not running" message Apr 03 19:32:44 onen: i was near the border last week but there was no gsm coverage at all Apr 03 19:32:59 tmzt: ah ok Apr 03 19:33:05 * DocScrutinizer bbl Apr 03 19:33:12 mrmoku: yep, and GPRS Apr 03 19:33:25 but multitouch is worse than with the iphone (as it mixes up points) Apr 03 19:33:35 but that does not matter for gestures Apr 03 19:33:38 dos1: which prog do you use for irc on FR? Apr 03 19:34:01 mrmoku: pidgin Apr 03 19:35:01 lindi: the webpage pointed at by fso specs, says something about the border Apr 03 19:35:11 lindi: http://www.tele-servizi.com/janus/engfield1.html Apr 03 19:35:28 i did everything i wanted except currentprofile Apr 03 19:35:57 but it's too much work for train ;D Apr 03 19:36:09 lindi-: which pdf reader? libpop* based? Apr 03 19:36:14 dos1: get an usb keyboard Apr 03 19:36:19 lindi: NCC:(3 bits) Network Color Code (0-7) - this is used to distinguish neighboring cells between operators of different countries broadcasting BCCH on the same FDMA channel from each other. The NCC is equal within a PLMN (Public Land Mobile Network). It's a 3 bit value. Apr 03 19:36:23 and eclipse running on the moko Apr 03 19:36:26 -> perfect Apr 03 19:36:31 just kidding Apr 03 19:36:51 lindi-: I mean poppler Apr 03 19:38:22 bumbl_: i have, but normal sized ;p Apr 03 19:38:41 tmzt: osso-pdf-reader Apr 03 19:38:52 dos1: and still missing the keys ? ;) Apr 03 19:39:10 DocScrutinizer: you did some thinking about gsm based location, right? Apr 03 19:39:18 yup Apr 03 19:39:20 a lot Apr 03 19:39:24 tmzt: its source code has a copy of xpdf Apr 03 19:39:41 though for a rather niche case Apr 03 19:40:00 DocScrutinizer: which keys? Apr 03 19:40:17 which is german o2 sending pos of their BTS in krauss-wegener Apr 03 19:40:33 DocScrutinizer: maybe you do know some about the modem ;-) do you know if this is safe to consider that neighbours (as we only get LAC and CID) is attached to the serving cell MCC and MNC? Apr 03 19:40:44 dos1: the one's of your stdsize kbd while on train Apr 03 19:42:00 onen: sorry can't answer this right away, as I have no idea right now what MCC and MNC are Apr 03 19:42:57 DocScrutinizer: of course that does not help ;-) a cell is identified by the tuple (Mobile Country Code, M Network C, LAC, CID) Apr 03 19:43:17 ahh ok Apr 03 19:43:20 DocScrutinizer: mobile country code, network code Apr 03 19:43:32 yeah neigbours are of same network usually Apr 03 19:43:55 DocScrutinizer: my fear, is that it shows also cells from the other side of th eborder Apr 03 19:44:34 usually not afaik, as it would be another MNC Apr 03 19:45:09 but then, if roaming is allowable for the other provider... I don't know Apr 03 19:45:33 DocScrutinizer: I am working on a logger to build free database of gsm coverage, and we pay a lot of attention to the quality of what we gather. and associating lac cid from th eother side of th eborder to the mcc mnc of our side, is quite annoying ;-) Apr 03 19:46:15 but basically it's not grruanteed the neghbours are real geographical neighbours anyway Apr 03 19:46:55 Hi onen :) Apr 03 19:47:07 onen: competing database to opencellid.org? Apr 03 19:47:08 onen: but you're aware of this I'm sure Apr 03 19:47:17 DocScrutinizer: that's the whole point; I try to find somebody to tell me yes or no, if the neighbour are linked to the current MCC MNC, I don't know who to ask now :'-( Apr 03 19:47:30 :) Apr 03 19:47:34 sounds cool :D Apr 03 19:47:43 What's the real motivation behind it though? Apr 03 19:47:50 DocScrutinizer: what do you mean by no real geographical neighbours? Apr 03 19:47:55 what's the meaning of "linked to"? Apr 03 19:48:21 Dave: hi Dave :-) Apr 03 19:49:10 onen: (no real..) you might find an umbrella cell in your list of "neighbours" that's some 20km remote, while missing the cell 500m away Apr 03 19:50:04 lindi: back in january, many people looked at opencellid, license unclear. we started our project. no response to email. now has clear license, and respond. but we think we need HPV-Dops + speed to be able to filter low quality measures Apr 03 19:50:15 onen: basically you never can tell the 6 stations are the closest ones to your current location Apr 03 19:50:24 onen: but the license should be clear now? Apr 03 19:50:41 onen: (responded without reading your complete line) Apr 03 19:50:55 lindi: opencellid (oci) said he had thought about it but is no use. we asked for papers and or tests he could point at. never answered that email Apr 03 19:50:59 Onen, I still am unclear, do you do this because the information from the cell companies is improper, or are they not giving you any information at all? Apr 03 19:51:02 onen: i understand that but so few phones can log that data Apr 03 19:51:08 lindi: plus we have found some garbage data in his database Apr 03 19:51:40 lindi: we proposed to use directly his database if he added HPV-Dops + speed, and drop our. never got an answer to this email... Apr 03 19:51:41 no good news today Apr 03 19:51:42 onen: are there enough people to capture data to this new database? Apr 03 19:51:55 SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * rda6ab3af3f37 10/openembedded/packages/tasks/task-shr-feed.bb: feed: add ffalarms Apr 03 19:52:03 onen: what phones can log neighbour cell signal quality? Apr 03 19:52:14 onen: i'd send new email, he has responded to me just fine Apr 03 19:52:23 Dave: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenBmap Apr 03 19:52:28 :) Apr 03 19:52:44 onen: email is bad medium anyway, since you can't know if mail was ignored due to a problem or intentionally Apr 03 19:54:00 http://www.nobbi.com/phones.html Apr 03 19:54:12 DocScrutinizer: 'linked to' -> the serving, through mandatory (almost only) api provides mcc mnc lac cid. and this is supposed to identify a cell. when using the neighbour cells api, we only get lac and cid. no mcc and mnc. so i would like to know if it is safe to 'link' the neighbour to the current cell Apr 03 19:54:51 DocScrutinizer: but can those phones log that information to the database? Apr 03 19:55:45 Dave: not at all. the idea started from google, which proposes to give your location out of your gsm cell, but you have to send it to them over web api :( Apr 03 19:56:00 onen: as I told before, I always had the idea only neighbours of same provider are showing up in the list ->MCC and MNC identical Apr 03 19:56:26 lindi-: not meant to Apr 03 19:56:47 lindi-: just a cool link for background info on GSM Apr 03 19:56:51 because onen's idea needs phones that can log hpv-dops and neighbour cells Apr 03 19:57:04 freerunner can, i'm not sure if others can Apr 03 19:57:08 lindi: that is correct, and that is the point of an open phone ;-) and this idea is to try to build a high quality database, even if we only at beginning accept all data Apr 03 19:57:40 onen: i'd accept data from as many sources as possible and just tag them appropriately Apr 03 19:57:49 wpwrak: btw... the alarm problem was (is) related to DST time... looks like either my time setup is wrong or raster has some bug in his alarm app Apr 03 19:57:53 lindi: cellhunter guy states 40 K cells, in couple of months. he logs neighbour though Apr 03 19:57:57 just tried ffalarms and that works like a charm :-) Apr 03 19:58:05 onen: for AGPS getting position right within 10 km is much better than nothing Apr 03 19:58:16 lindi-: what's "log"? there's monitormode and you can use it to read out the info from phone. sure it won't log by itself to some remote database Apr 03 19:58:19 lindi: neighbour cell signal quality, other than FR, I don't know :( Apr 03 19:58:22 onen: but he's only in one country Apr 03 19:58:45 onen: i'm just pointing out that a user would want to use both databases Apr 03 19:59:10 lindi: yes, since cellhunter and openBmap announced on ML, he showed up Apr 03 19:59:53 onen: but he responded to my emails last year too ;) Apr 03 20:00:16 lindi: and so far he has answered. but he may be very busy, I just try to stick to facts. he contacted me to have a look at my code to understand if it would be difficult to upload to oci, I gave him all the info, but no new since Apr 03 20:00:34 onen: you're aware of Gauss-Wegener in german o2 cellbroadcast? Apr 03 20:00:40 lindi: what medium would you then recommend? Apr 03 20:01:07 SPIES Apr 03 20:01:12 DocScrutinizer: that would be good news, I may log them then 8-) Apr 03 20:01:38 onen that's an oooold story ;-) Apr 03 20:02:13 onen: does he IRC? ;) Apr 03 20:02:38 lindi: to be exact: we want to log HPV-Dops + speed. that is standard GPS data. We discovered only later, that we could get cells faster thanks to addition of neighbour cells Apr 03 20:02:51 onen: http://www.nobbi.com/btsquerydb.html Apr 03 20:03:12 lindi: that is exactly what we are doing. tag serving/neighbour Apr 03 20:03:33 onen: but i mean you should tag what phone and gps chip was used Apr 03 20:03:43 onen: so that you could accept lower quality data too Apr 03 20:04:12 dammit s/wegener/krger/ Apr 03 20:04:51 o_O Apr 03 20:04:52 lindi: AGPS exactly. also many times you do not need precision of GPS (some tests without neighbour overlaping gave us 1-2 km precision in area of mixed land and villages) Apr 03 20:05:14 onen: http://www.nobbi.com/wiki/doku.php/cell_broadcast Apr 03 20:05:26 onen: 221 D2 ja BTS-Koordinaten in Gauss-Krüger-Notation Apr 03 20:05:58 lindi: only in one country -> who? Apr 03 20:05:59 actually this is incorrect afaik. s/D2/E2/ Apr 03 20:06:08 germany Apr 03 20:06:18 onen: who has freerunner and logs to this new db Apr 03 20:06:49 lindi: oci and emails -> I cannot say much, I did not try to reach me, but the other guy in the project... Apr 03 20:07:06 lindi: try to reach me -> try to reach him Apr 03 20:07:41 DocScrutinizer: you mean they broadcast the tower position plus arfcn computation possible? Apr 03 20:08:04 what's arfcn? Apr 03 20:08:12 yup for coords Apr 03 20:08:46 dos1: quite a challenge to chat with pidgin on the fr with qwo Apr 03 20:09:22 DocScrutinizer: old story, you mean the nobbi.com link you sent? Apr 03 20:09:33 mrmoku: we should have a freerunner typing contest : Apr 03 20:09:36 :) Apr 03 20:09:40 :-) Apr 03 20:09:51 onen: as well as o2 seding gauss-krueger Apr 03 20:10:04 main problem (apart from slowness) is that you don't see what others are typing when the keyboard is open :P Apr 03 20:10:37 * mrmoku should really try to get xorg with transparent qwo keyboard running Apr 03 20:10:47 lindi: we keep track of gps chip, gsm chip, gsm firmware, logger name, logger version, hpv-dops, speed, lat/long/alt/heading, gps time, and for the moment that's it IIRC Apr 03 20:11:00 lindi: oh and signal strength Apr 03 20:12:45 lindi: who logs? Me ;-) nick (from openbmap), otherwise we have 5 people unknown, and dent did it today, and mrmoku plans doing it this weekend Apr 03 20:13:24 lets see how the default keyboard works Apr 03 20:14:11 DocScrutinizer: want to clarify: in what you sent, nothing allows to do what we target right? database located on the phone? Apr 03 20:14:12 well... I logged something yesterday and today... Apr 03 20:14:24 not uploaded though Apr 03 20:14:42 will be able to log some nice italian cells the next two weeks :P Apr 03 20:14:46 mrmoku: even if it is xml ;-) (seems you did not like it ;-) ) Apr 03 20:15:03 onen: well... I don't have to edit it... so I don't care :-) Apr 03 20:15:29 dos1: still on train? Apr 03 20:16:45 I wanted to know if our arguments about HPV-Dops + speed make sense to the people who have followed the GSM discussion? Apr 03 20:17:30 recamping? Apr 03 20:18:07 Sargun: mmmhh, is the question aimed at me? Apr 03 20:18:20 * mrmoku remembered the time when camping had just a positive meaning for him... before knowing calypso :P Apr 03 20:22:17 mrmoku, you obviously didn't play quake (or other FPS games) at that time then :) Apr 03 20:22:55 so it seems that we still have difficulties to convince people about the need of hpv-dops + speed :-( Apr 03 20:22:59 eolson1: did not and do not now :-P Apr 03 20:24:19 hmpff... that is what you get for using pidgin on your fr :( Apr 03 20:25:32 * mwester is a camper in quake... Apr 03 20:26:11 * mwester prefers to call the Calypso problem "bouncing" rather than the "camping" problem. Apr 03 20:27:26 mwester: you saved my summer holidays :-) Apr 03 20:31:16 :-D Apr 03 20:32:36 ok I try again :-P for logging GSM signal, we think we should log HPV-Dop (precision) of the GPS position + speed (if speed is high, then the time of GSM update be taken into account, plus reading GPS plus moving, leads to inacuracy). Do people here think this make sense, or is unuseful? Apr 03 20:33:17 onen: I have no idea about gsm stuff.... though it looks quite logical to me Apr 03 20:33:41 * onen cries for finally finding some support Apr 03 20:34:29 I have spotted code by shoragan in the framework, about gsm positioning, + embedding database Apr 03 20:34:58 but they do not take hpv-dops + speed in consideration for what I have seen Apr 03 20:35:27 :O Apr 03 20:35:38 wanted to have their opinion about it, but none answered on irc (if I have not missed it) Apr 03 20:35:51 * Dave gives onen a hug Apr 03 20:36:15 * onen lays his head on Dave's shoulder Apr 03 20:36:50 do you know if they are usually available on irc? or usually busy? Apr 03 20:37:23 mrmoku: were the 1st april/31 march images supposed to work? Apr 03 20:37:33 hoi btw Apr 03 20:38:19 tord: all our images are supposed to work :-) Apr 03 20:38:20 mwester, I used to be a camper in quake, but I found out this year if I practice regularly and have a decent mouse, I can get good aim like the other idiots that always hit me from miles away. (of course now I've stopped practicing :( Apr 03 20:38:26 (some don't though...) Apr 03 20:38:42 tord: having problems>? Apr 03 20:40:21 mrmoku: uh yeah.. everything simcardrelated segfaults (messaging and contactlist), and nothing in shr-settings can connect to dbus Apr 03 20:40:30 in both those images, both after fresh install Apr 03 20:41:06 running from phone memory, not memorycard Apr 03 20:41:17 tord: hmm Apr 03 20:41:21 fat or lite image? Apr 03 20:41:28 brb Apr 03 20:42:12 not quite sure though, the ones i found http://openmoko.opendevice.org/build/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ Apr 03 20:42:15 fat i guess Apr 03 20:42:22 is this a stupid place to download images perhaps? :P Apr 03 20:42:44 mrmoku: will the fso image keep going, or shr become the graphical interface of future release? Apr 03 20:43:57 fat? Apr 03 20:44:01 like mrmoku? :p Apr 03 20:44:10 :D Apr 03 20:44:30 * tord downloads from http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ instead Apr 03 20:44:56 stefan: hallo Apr 03 20:45:12 Ainulindale: git.openezx.org should work again. Apache was thinking that 600 meg ram is what every webserver need Apr 03 20:45:19 hi onen Apr 03 20:46:11 stefan_schmidt: do you have some time to talk about the code shoragan commited a couple of days ago about gsm location? Apr 03 20:46:46 onen: Time yes, but no idea Apr 03 20:47:04 onen: I did not check yet and shoragan did not tal about it to me so far Apr 03 20:47:11 stefan_schmidt: :-) that is unfortunate Apr 03 20:47:15 onen: Better ask him Apr 03 20:47:40 stefan_schmidt: have tried here on irc, but no answer Apr 03 20:48:04 stefan_schmidt: do you think is ok if I email him? Apr 03 20:48:04 onen: They are just back from switzerland today. Have been there on the openexpo for some days Apr 03 20:48:13 onen: yeah, mail should be fine Apr 03 20:48:26 onen: cc smartphone-standards please Apr 03 20:48:35 So other people are also in the loop Apr 03 20:48:48 stefan_schmidt: ah ok. There has already been a lot of discussion about openexpo news.... :-( Apr 03 20:49:18 onen: BTW, nothing is in stone. All can be changed. We will have to talk about such things at FSOSHRUDCON Apr 03 20:49:24 stefan_schmidt: well I was basically thinking writing there directly as I could not reach him Apr 03 20:49:30 onen: yeah, bad news Apr 03 20:49:30 Onen, I like your project Apr 03 20:49:47 onen: Write to him and cc the list Apr 03 20:50:11 * onen still has his head on Dave's shoulder (please tighter the hug) Apr 03 20:50:20 Awwww Apr 03 20:50:26 poor guy :\ Apr 03 20:50:33 * Dave offers onen one of his cookies Apr 03 20:50:38 * stefan_schmidt is also searching for new funding for FSO. Anyone interested. ;) Apr 03 20:51:15 * onen look in his purse Apr 03 20:51:26 Let's see what the future brings as OM is no longer sponsoring FSO Apr 03 20:51:33 Stefan :D Apr 03 20:51:36 Yay Apr 03 20:51:42 But hey, we wont give up Apr 03 20:51:53 We have such a nice community now! Apr 03 20:52:01 Yes :] Apr 03 20:52:37 stefan_schmidt: about things in stone: that is very reassuring. because I was wondering if fso was thinking openBmap approach was not interesting (more details in my future email :-) ) Apr 03 20:53:12 onen: I don't think shoragan was thinking this as he code that up. More some showcase what could be done. Apr 03 20:53:13 Hooray! Apr 03 20:53:29 tord: ahh... don't know about opendevice images... think they're from dos1... not sure though Apr 03 20:53:40 onen: Personally I really think that openbmap/opencellid/cellhunter db's should be merged Apr 03 20:53:47 stefan_schmidt: OM funding FSO; ok now this is clear :-( Apr 03 20:53:52 ja Apr 03 20:54:03 mrmoku: k.. I downloaded from build.shr-project.org now, guess that should be better Apr 03 20:54:04 Having three concurring project is bad Apr 03 20:54:05 Dave: not fat... I install lite images everywhere... even on me ;) Apr 03 20:54:11 :D Apr 03 20:54:22 tord: it works for me Apr 03 20:54:25 (tm) Apr 03 20:54:32 :] Apr 03 20:54:34 Dave: please use it to contribute cells, and give some feedback :-) Apr 03 20:54:42 onen: At least come to a state were the db's are synced against each other Apr 03 20:54:51 Dave: and thanks, it is good to have nice feedback :-) Apr 03 20:55:38 cellhunter is growing fast because of the game idea around it Apr 03 20:56:03 still I like to have more stuff for better location info Apr 03 20:56:08 wifi ap's, etc Apr 03 20:56:12 stefan_schmidt: sure I just wanted to know what was shoragan's plan, and openBmap could fit Apr 03 20:56:24 I know openbmap is thinking about this Apr 03 20:56:47 stefan_schmidt: http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=865&start=210 Apr 03 20:56:53 onen: The major blocker for going forward atm is that there are three projects Apr 03 20:57:18 onen: But be assured, openbmap is not out of the game yet. Apr 03 20:57:23 stefan_schmidt: I don't know what I did wrong, when proposing collaboration, but it seems cellhunter does not trust us :-( Apr 03 20:57:27 onen: More discussions at the conference Apr 03 20:57:33 onen, okay ^^ Apr 03 20:57:47 onen: hmm, what did sebastian tell you? Apr 03 20:57:52 onen: Or just no reply? Apr 03 20:58:42 * stefan_schmidt is back in some minutes Apr 03 20:58:46 stefan_schmidt: is it growing fast because of the game aspect, or because of the neighbour cells (that we do not log for now)? (I do not try to undermine the project, which is great) Apr 03 20:59:03 Onen, I like it :D Apr 03 20:59:10 if you make it like a game, everyone will want to play! Apr 03 20:59:24 if you can make it competitive, people will play harder :D Apr 03 21:00:38 Dave: personnaly I don't care of the game aspect. but I see that many people like it. what i dont want to do, is copy (and redo) what cellhunter has already done well Apr 03 21:01:19 stefan_schmidt: ok, I would have prefered Sebastian to be here to give his view, so I stick to what was in our emails: Apr 03 21:02:25 stefan_schmidt: after having discovered his project, short before first release of our, I thought we should definitely join forces. so i contacted him on ML for collaboration, after the second try, he accepted but off list Apr 03 21:02:29 :] Apr 03 21:02:32 steal the data Apr 03 21:02:35 continue the effort! Apr 03 21:02:59 stefan_schmidt: there he invited thomas from opencellid. which was a good idea Apr 03 21:03:17 stefan_schmidt: basically the discusion went so Apr 03 21:04:12 stefan_schmidt: on ML Nick from openBmap proposed opencellid to merge our db in his, if he would agree to add hpv-dops + speed, because we think this brings capability to filter low quality measures Apr 03 21:05:17 stefan_schmidt: he did not answer. in the private conversation, he states he has thought about this, but this is unuseful. we asked for papers or experiments he could point at, for us to see that we were going wrong way: he did not answer Apr 03 21:07:08 stefan_schmidt: I proposed Sebastian either to merge our db in his, or his in our, and upload to opencellid. he refused, stating that he wants control of his db, if he wants to change sth. (and what he says in the link given above, states that we absolutely wanted to absorb his db, this is wrong. at least it was not what i wanted) Apr 03 21:07:22 onen: ok, give me a moment to go through this step by step Apr 03 21:07:54 what an ass Apr 03 21:07:59 he must be french :P Apr 03 21:08:44 stefan_schmidt: I then proposed to merge clients, at least the core of th elogger, and maybe keep two GUIs with some different logic (like the game). Apr 03 21:09:25 stefan_schmidt: I even proposed to set up a git repository with his code, throw away mine, and start collaborating on his. answers: he has no time for a collaborating project Apr 03 21:10:17 onen: if you bomb more text at me I don't come to answer it. :) Apr 03 21:10:27 stefan_schmidt: nevertheless what I understand from his post in german, is that maybe he got me wrong, and saw me too much pushing for a merge, and menacing his project? Apr 03 21:10:50 stefan_schmidt: story ended, please take your time Apr 03 21:10:57 Onen, how can I get involved? :) Apr 03 21:11:21 * onen cools his fingers from typing long story Apr 03 21:11:36 :] Apr 03 21:11:43 * Dave gives onen some ice ^^ Apr 03 21:11:54 Dave: OMG! well first of course, you can contribute by logging cells and uploading them Apr 03 21:12:12 Dave: or do you mean get *really* involved ;-) Apr 03 21:13:17 onen: ok, let me start Apr 03 21:14:06 onen: Due to the game effect cellhunter had a great start. Apr 03 21:14:37 onen: Look for example at the cells alphaone|gone, shoragan and I uploaded. Apr 03 21:14:47 stefan_schmidt: and he deserves it Apr 03 21:14:54 8960 alone our group Apr 03 21:15:11 people get into the game fever easily Apr 03 21:15:16 onen: I uploaded my logs... only bc of *you* I *walked* from work home! :)) Apr 03 21:15:20 Now to the technical side Apr 03 21:15:28 took me like an hour... Apr 03 21:15:32 stefan_schmidt: we have 10K at almost only two people without neighbours ;-) Apr 03 21:15:51 (actually, the weather was rather nice, so it might have affected my decision too :) Apr 03 21:15:52 onen: Yeah, but why you only have two people? Apr 03 21:16:09 onen: The problem is that both projects came out more or less the same time Apr 03 21:16:23 And the game was more interesting. Bad timing. That's life Apr 03 21:16:30 dent: lol :-D you should thank me to keep you fit :-P Apr 03 21:16:40 dent: thanks for contribution! Apr 03 21:17:12 The biggest problem I see atm is that Nick, Sebastian and Thomas all want to keep there solution Apr 03 21:17:20 Nobody is stepping back Apr 03 21:17:50 stefan_schmidt: completely agree. But as explained earlier, I have the feeling I made the first step and more to see the project merge. and we care about the quality and precision of data of the extra fields Apr 03 21:18:30 onen: agreed. I see that you are coming from your side and want to collaborate. That's why I'm talking here and try to sort some things out Apr 03 21:19:13 stefan_schmidt: I completely agree. my opinion: thomas consider his database quality is enough, and don't want to start modifying it for us. Sebastian wants to stay free to modify it for the game. And Nick (and I) want to convince people that the extra fiels will lead to better quality Apr 03 21:21:01 stefan_schmidt: I have been thinking a lot about all of this. wondering if I had bad communication or so. And I still definitely want to see at least a merge between ch and obm. Apr 03 21:21:30 onen: I haven't looked at it so I don't know what this fields will bring quality wise. In general we are of course interested in all kind of better quality Apr 03 21:21:41 onen: \o/ Apr 03 21:22:15 onen: I think it's just that nobody want to give up his project as he already put a lot energy into it Apr 03 21:22:27 stefan_schmidt: one of the first things to include then is TimeAdvance Apr 03 21:22:43 DocScrutinizer: The thing from GPRS? Apr 03 21:22:47 stefan_schmidt: let me paste hier my comments earlier: for logging GSM signal, we think we should log HPV-Dop (precision) of the GPS position + speed (if speed is high, then the time of GSM update be taken into account, plus reading GPS plus moving, leads to inacuracy). Do people here think this make sense, or is unuseful? Apr 03 21:23:01 stefan_schmidt: sorry, am I OT? Apr 03 21:23:21 DocScrutinizer: what is OT? Apr 03 21:23:27 off topic Apr 03 21:23:31 :o Apr 03 21:23:59 onen, more involved than just logging... but that's probably the best start ;) Apr 03 21:24:01 onen: ok, how about this? I write up a mail to all of you with some list in CC to bring up the question again as a neutral person Apr 03 21:24:10 ptitjes, ping. Apr 03 21:24:13 DocScrutinizer: what is the smiley you sent me? (sorry new to irc, still a lot to learn) Apr 03 21:24:16 stefan_schmidt: TA is distance to BTS in units of Apr 03 21:24:39 DocScrutinizer: yeah, biut I though you only et that for data connections? Apr 03 21:24:50 DocScrutinizer: Of course it is likely that I'm wrong. :) Apr 03 21:24:53 onen: I always see a guy happily waving with both his arms Apr 03 21:24:57 Dave: git is public, you can join me by email or whatever, just let me know what would interest you I will help Apr 03 21:25:41 stepno U r correct. You get it vor every connection transmitting any data from MT to BTS Apr 03 21:26:04 stefan_schmidt: sounds good to me. and yes, please publicly, because I hate stating things as I did here, without the facts of emails, and others the ability to counter argument Apr 03 21:26:04 errks Apr 03 21:26:06 stefan_schmidt: Apr 03 21:26:33 DocScrutinizer: ah, my mind is not as bad as I thought. Apr 03 21:26:53 stefan_schmidt: trigger sth like "AT*#61#" and here U are Apr 03 21:27:11 onen: ok, you, nick, sebastian, thomas, openmoko-devel and freesmartphone-standards Apr 03 21:27:41 stefan_schmidt: it's a pity U don't get TA for neighbour cells (without cheating) Apr 03 21:27:42 DocScrutinizer: Please comment on the mail I send later today about such quality options. Apr 03 21:27:59 np, include me CC Apr 03 21:28:05 will do Apr 03 21:28:48 Anyone remember that place that does custom CNC cutting, that people were using to cut cases for their FRs Apr 03 21:29:14 calypso has no way (yet?) i'd know of to force association with a cell other than the top-signal-level one Apr 03 21:29:20 nokia has though Apr 03 21:30:06 so with nokia you are able to get TA for neighbour cells as well (see my posting from ~6months ago, topic (GSM*bla* revisited) Apr 03 21:30:11 DocScrutinizer: use the BTS from laforge? Apr 03 21:30:30 GSM, wireless sucks Apr 03 21:30:30 not beyond a short test on 25c3 Apr 03 21:32:02 DocScrutinizer: TA stands for? I guess you are talking about the f(arfcn, tower position) = our position? Apr 03 21:32:13 Time Advance Apr 03 21:32:20 onen: could you point me to some intro as for how this works - i.e. what info do you actually get off the GSM network; and possibly how you process it? Apr 03 21:32:36 :) Apr 03 21:32:54 onen, can we talk later more about your project? Apr 03 21:32:56 it's basically thnce from BTS, so MT can start sending in advance to fall in slot when arriving at BTSe dista Apr 03 21:32:56 I have some fun ideas Apr 03 21:33:06 fsck Apr 03 21:33:11 DIStance Apr 03 21:33:31 Dave, does it involve transformers? Apr 03 21:33:36 :) Apr 03 21:34:08 hmm... my son has transformers... Apr 03 21:34:17 optimus prime Apr 03 21:34:28 dent: intro... well the only I know is the wiki page on wiki.openmoko :-( is it ok if I point what to look at in the code? Apr 03 21:34:31 mrmoku: my son likes bakugan better Apr 03 21:34:38 onen, i personally can't see what is rong with one database, let everybody log what he wants, and if someone doesn't want for examples neighbouring cells, he can just ignore it Apr 03 21:34:39 Dave: sure Apr 03 21:34:49 Dave: that is much easier. irc? voip? Apr 03 21:34:57 rwhitby: :-) Apr 03 21:35:11 onen: ok, then I first poke into it with a stick from distance, later ask :) Apr 03 21:35:19 and thanks for mentionning me in your mail :) Apr 03 21:35:26 onen: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html Apr 03 21:35:47 Zorkman: the view of cellhunter is that he sees one big central gsm database, without any game aspect. thus he wants to keep his, and upload the gsm part to opencellid Apr 03 21:36:23 hmm... this pidgin slows down the FR quite a log :( Apr 03 21:36:52 quite a lag? :-P Apr 03 21:36:56 mrmoku: tell me one thing that doesn't :p Apr 03 21:37:27 well... a lot means it gets quite unusable... Apr 03 21:37:36 Zorkman :P Apr 03 21:37:46 Zorkman, thanks for reminding me! I really need to finish that! Apr 03 21:37:49 Zorkman: /etc/init.d/xserver stop Apr 03 21:37:58 Though if you didn't see, I'll mockup my latest theme, I think it's almost as good :P Apr 03 21:38:00 hehe Apr 03 21:38:07 that gives speed, yeah :P Apr 03 21:38:22 lemme see DAVE! :) Apr 03 21:38:26 i'm a believer :) Apr 03 21:38:30 dent: well I gladly answer question right now. we log gsp lat/lon/alt/time/hpv-dops/heading gsm mcc/mnc/lac/cid/signal strength and want cell type (2G, 3G) Apr 03 21:38:57 Zorkman: did I? under another nick? Apr 03 21:38:58 onen, openbmap? Apr 03 21:39:02 hm... /me is off to google what gsm mcc/mnc/lac/cid mean :) Apr 03 21:39:17 onen, non geeks call me yorick ;) Apr 03 21:39:25 things to track you Apr 03 21:39:36 spy stuff cia uses :p Apr 03 21:39:38 anyway trivial Q first: this all is based on the cell/whatever IDs being relatively permanent, right? Apr 03 21:40:01 jup, and the cells not moving around much this time of year Apr 03 21:40:17 Sargun: yes Apr 03 21:40:30 DocScrutinizer: To your om email address or something else? Apr 03 21:40:50 sure, I'm still OM :> Apr 03 21:40:57 Zorkman: you are the one who convinced me of adding neighbour cells :-) Apr 03 21:41:20 Zorkman: Nick shared your view, but he was not enough, I can be stuborned ;-) Apr 03 21:41:33 since i'm to bad to code, the only good thing i can do is nag or make others work even harder ;) Apr 03 21:41:38 onen, We need to figure out how to hack people's SIM cards, and figure out what LACs they've been near Apr 03 21:41:49 SIM hacking = hard Apr 03 21:42:35 onen: so you can eventually approximate the geo locations of BTSes (if I'm using the right term) - from the logs... ? and given nearest BTS + dist, one can get some circle of expected location? Apr 03 21:42:56 Sargun, huhu Apr 03 21:43:13 dent, not well Apr 03 21:43:22 DocScrutinizer: ok ;) Apr 03 21:43:43 Sargun: hm? feel free to expand :) Apr 03 21:43:44 man, this is gonna be hot Apr 03 21:43:45 dent: cell global identifier is *quite* permanent (we have already spotted cell id jumping from one lac to the one next to it, and thought about ways of detecting this in the db) Apr 03 21:43:45 ;D Apr 03 21:44:03 onen: I see Apr 03 21:44:10 Zorkman, like hell you're becoming my project manager on this :P Apr 03 21:44:10 hahaha Apr 03 21:44:12 but it's funny Apr 03 21:45:03 i'm you're man Apr 03 21:45:20 dent, natural structures, people in the way, so on and so forth. Apr 03 21:45:21 (one handed at the moment, but that just means i get the best parking spots :)) Apr 03 21:45:37 dent: our approach: trying to guess the location of the tower is not interesting. too much things (buildings) can change the "shape" of the gsm coverage we have a chance to get connected to Apr 03 21:45:39 Also, how do you take into place COW? Apr 03 21:45:45 Cell on wheels Apr 03 21:45:49 Sargun: aha, yeah... I based my ideas on an idealized world :)) Apr 03 21:45:56 no structures, just BTSes :)) Apr 03 21:46:08 Imagine a world full of BTSes and nothing else Apr 03 21:46:10 flat Apr 03 21:46:14 :)) Apr 03 21:46:20 dent: so we draw the shape of the area where we got connected to a specific cell, then we try to identifiy it with a position (barycenter, etc...) Apr 03 21:46:29 shs Apr 03 21:46:33 tr/s/a/; Apr 03 21:46:41 or gravity so strong that radio signals are drawn around the surface of the earth Apr 03 21:46:49 would gravity affect (sp?) all radio signals the same? Apr 03 21:48:39 onen: strange enough nobody ever answered to my psoting mentioned above. Maybe was to compressed not elaborating on the idea of TA and forced reselection of neighbour cells. Anyway you might find it worthwile to try and understand my foggy-spelled ideas Apr 03 21:48:40 :] Apr 03 21:48:45 did I answer all the questions? or did I miss sth? Apr 03 21:48:57 this makes me even want to boot up my freerunner, onen :p Apr 03 21:49:03 * Dave points the deeply-discharged pile of freerunners --------------> Apr 03 21:49:23 onen: thx for explanation Apr 03 21:49:30 Sargun: gravity isn't afecting RF (for anything except bölack holes) Apr 03 21:49:43 well, it certainly affects light Apr 03 21:49:49 so... Apr 03 21:49:54 DocScrutinizer: at that time I was not involved in such topic, and I still do not follow the kernel list ;-) Apr 03 21:49:57 COSMIC RAYS! Apr 03 21:50:00 Sargun: VLF RF is surrounding the earth due to skin effect Apr 03 21:50:05 comets and singularities! Apr 03 21:50:17 Joerg, I need to find a way to jump my freerunner tonight, here at home :( Apr 03 21:50:35 and I have no digital power supplies here :[ Apr 03 21:50:42 DocScrutinizer: but already the idea of forcing to connect to a specific cell is great. we could imagine checking the local db, ok we already know well the serving cell but not the 3rd neighbour, lets connect to it :-) Apr 03 21:50:48 jump ON, OVER, or MAKE it jump? :D Apr 03 21:50:55 *cough* Apr 03 21:50:58 :P Apr 03 21:51:15 man, is it just me, or is joerg's humor even better since he left OM :D Apr 03 21:51:42 might be hehe Apr 03 21:52:36 Dave: got two 1V5 cells around? Apr 03 21:53:17 huh, doc, you're still om, no? Apr 03 21:53:27 nope, not really Apr 03 21:53:37 hmmm... Apr 03 21:53:51 damn, thought you were the only one left :) Apr 03 21:53:54 a deliberate npayed servant ;D Apr 03 21:54:06 sure! Apr 03 21:54:11 Joerg, 1.5V? Apr 03 21:54:17 x 2 Apr 03 21:54:22 Dave: don't do it, you're too young to die! Apr 03 21:54:23 yeah, right here in my hand :D Apr 03 21:54:25 =3 Apr 03 21:54:27 Zorkman :P Apr 03 21:54:28 DocScrutinizer == that joerg? Apr 03 21:54:31 Joerg, of course :P Apr 03 21:54:33 dent: ja Apr 03 21:54:38 wunderschon! :) Apr 03 21:54:39 rechargables are 1.2 normally i think Apr 03 21:54:41 ~docscrutinizer Apr 03 21:54:42 hmm... docscrutinizer is jOERG (AT openmoko.org), a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko Apr 03 21:55:13 ex-? Apr 03 21:55:16 na ja... I remember "jOERG" from the MLs Apr 03 21:55:40 just never connected him to... well, him here :) Apr 03 21:55:43 yep :] Apr 03 21:55:54 Joerg, haha, I guess that should work :P Apr 03 21:55:59 at least to boot it Apr 03 21:56:01 :X Apr 03 21:56:09 dent: he's like the counterpart of Dave : creator and anti-christ; DocScrutinizer made the FR, Dave keeps on distroying them Apr 03 21:56:17 Dave: sure, take a piece of wire from next fence ;) Apr 03 21:56:26 haha Apr 03 21:56:27 Zorkman: good to know :) Apr 03 21:56:27 Also Apr 03 21:56:41 note to everyone: apply 25V to your freerunner's USB is a terrible idea. Apr 03 21:56:45 Zorkman: hehehe Apr 03 21:56:48 :))) Apr 03 21:56:57 Dave: ouch Apr 03 21:57:01 Dave: you managed that? Apr 03 21:57:19 Dave: how many FR do you have? I have been told you have quite a lot of them? Apr 03 21:57:20 Fuck, Zorkman, I should probably create a list of all the bad things I've done and put it on the wiki Apr 03 21:57:21 an accident, or just trying to make the FR feel pain? Apr 03 21:57:24 Dave: I think it's a brilliant and quite intriguing idea XD Apr 03 21:57:36 Perhaps I should document my "work" Apr 03 21:57:45 * Dave is now know as the Freerunner Torturer Apr 03 21:57:47 WORK?????? Apr 03 21:57:50 loool Apr 03 21:57:50 >:) Apr 03 21:58:01 we have a jokes page, your "accidents" might bne described as (un)practical jokes? Apr 03 21:58:01 perverts :-P Apr 03 21:58:07 :D Apr 03 21:58:22 * tord thinks FR-bricking stories sounds like a good read Apr 03 21:59:15 Dave -> Freerunner's Dr. Frankenstein Apr 03 21:59:19 lol; didn't read this one before: can i run openmoko as a live cd? Apr 03 21:59:21 Dave: because I am only the kid of the block after having succeded in making my company buy two FR, and in the end only use them for openBmap (so far) Apr 03 21:59:38 Aha Apr 03 21:59:50 onen, well if you needed, I have many, and could extend your project here as well, if necessary Apr 03 21:59:54 Zorkman: can u-boot boot off an USB cd? :)) Apr 03 22:00:00 or... not yet? :) Apr 03 22:00:05 hehe Apr 03 22:00:13 if it's simply data collection you're after, that could be rapidly accelerated :) Apr 03 22:00:41 dave, why don't you yell him about your top secret project? :p Apr 03 22:00:54 s/yell/tell Apr 03 22:01:01 Zorkman: Dave : if it's NiCad you'll need 3 cells Apr 03 22:01:29 or NiMH Apr 03 22:01:30 Zorkman, because, obviously then I'd have to kill him Apr 03 22:01:31 or a nokia battery Dave Apr 03 22:01:54 Joerg, what's wrong with good 'ol alkaline? Apr 03 22:02:32 nothing, just it's 1.5 to 1.6 and I strongly discourrage you to use more than 2 cells then Apr 03 22:02:59 right :) Apr 03 22:03:02 I'll try it now Apr 03 22:03:07 I hope I don't die :D Apr 03 22:03:07 though it stll should be save Apr 03 22:03:14 yeah sure it should Apr 03 22:03:18 but maybe slightly weak Apr 03 22:03:33 nah, >3 is fine Apr 03 22:03:51 >5.5 is mortal :D Apr 03 22:04:04 hahaha Apr 03 22:04:08 well yeah Apr 03 22:04:11 BELIEVE ME, I know :X Apr 03 22:04:15 * Dave cringes Apr 03 22:04:23 what I'm doing (Hammer) Apr 03 22:04:25 Too bad I don't have any scars to prove it ;p Apr 03 22:04:40 *ouch* Apr 03 22:04:47 Oh and Joerg, do you still have an extra form factor to ship if I pay postage, or did people already take from you? Apr 03 22:05:04 nobody did so far Apr 03 22:05:10 Ooh goodie! Apr 03 22:05:27 Dave: my biggest fear is that I really need them at work, I could not use them for logging :( Apr 03 22:05:53 * mwester has a few spare ones. Apr 03 22:05:55 Dave: and Nick only wait for a GUI for WiFi, in order to be able to upload by himself (should try shr...) Apr 03 22:06:26 Mail is out. Let's see who kills whom first :/ Apr 03 22:06:27 blah Apr 03 22:06:31 yeah, screw that Apr 03 22:06:38 * Dave high-fives mwester Apr 03 22:06:47 * Dave makes sure not to electrocute him accidentally Apr 03 22:06:54 Dave: data collection is the first needed block. after this you can experiment on algorithm to find the best way to qualify the location of a cell coverage, plus location based services directly on the FR Apr 03 22:07:06 Dave: not even if I put a gift wrapping paer around anybody was interested Apr 03 22:07:10 Sometimes I'm really tempted to grab everything from all three db's every two weeks and put it into another db and use that one Apr 03 22:07:49 onen :D Apr 03 22:07:53 Yes Apr 03 22:08:01 Joerg, awww, I would be! Apr 03 22:08:07 even more so if that got me two :P Apr 03 22:08:11 I know you said one per customer ;) Apr 03 22:08:24 So admittedly, I was less excited to pay for shipping Apr 03 22:08:41 now you're in the line for long time. think this entitles you for two of them Apr 03 22:09:09 :D Apr 03 22:09:16 Is that good or bad, Joerg? :) Apr 03 22:09:57 huh, dunno. Maybe your dog will bite you once it finds you got lots of this crap in his basket Apr 03 22:10:19 hahahaha what? :P Apr 03 22:10:54 * onen is putting military clothes on Apr 03 22:10:59 :o) Apr 03 22:12:05 * DocScrutinizer envisions Dave's dog chewing a burnt FR Apr 03 22:12:24 DocScrutinizer: having nightmares again ? Apr 03 22:12:36 Chew toy! Apr 03 22:12:40 nah that's just mere fun to me Apr 03 22:12:45 hey paroli :P Apr 03 22:12:48 hehe Apr 03 22:12:49 haha Apr 03 22:12:50 evil Apr 03 22:12:51 hej Dave Apr 03 22:13:05 Joerg, oh hehe, and the one thing I always forget when doing these stupid experiments... is grounding myself :P Apr 03 22:13:24 stefan_schmidt: we have started work on merging db. importing opencellid, generate zones, put in a sqlite file per country, and I have started the DBus service to query it Apr 03 22:13:26 and let's just say I've learned my lesson once or twice :P Apr 03 22:13:49 Dave: sure! no decent lightning surge will hit you without that XD Apr 03 22:14:00 onen: That's good Apr 03 22:14:16 stefan_schmidt: our idea was: bring finally the gsm location service on linux + try to see if we could compare openBmap with other data generated locations, to see if it gives better results Apr 03 22:14:20 onen: Play with it. Would be nice to get some first hand feedback on this at the conf Apr 03 22:15:02 onen: What is the size of the db locally? Apr 03 22:15:04 buuuurps (dinner was plenty) Apr 03 22:15:06 bbl Apr 03 22:15:19 omg... I just found four FIC batteries on my desk under shit! Apr 03 22:15:41 and as excited as I was to discover them, I quickly put a voltmeter over them... only to find they're all dead -_- Apr 03 22:15:59 as useless as FIC itself Apr 03 22:16:23 Dave: muahahahaaaaaha Apr 03 22:16:25 "These batteries wouldn't Voom if you put 4,000 volts through them!" (with apologies to John Cleese) Apr 03 22:16:38 Voom? Apr 03 22:16:53 That's what he says... Apr 03 22:17:27 stefan_schmidt: now you understand my fear when I saw the code from shoragan, and to what I hav eseen, I thnik he parses cellhunter data. I had already with collaboration not working on the logging part, feeling of duplicating efforts Apr 03 22:17:37 John Cleese for minitrer of educations! Apr 03 22:17:40 stefan_schmidt: and I thought, no, not again :-( Apr 03 22:17:49 miniSter even Apr 03 22:18:16 onen: On that part you should not worry. Apr 03 22:18:36 stefan_schmidt: at the conf, I think we can have sth. the idea for th emoment is: get the position of the cell, if not in db, of the lac, otherwise... have to think of fallback. returns position, precision, name of city Apr 03 22:18:40 onen: When you have something send it to the smartphone-standards ml Apr 03 22:19:20 onen: We may will re-work stuff a lot, but putting ideas together is never bad Apr 03 22:19:36 onen: I'll talk to shoragan next week when I see him. Apr 03 22:19:37 haha Apr 03 22:19:44 30dB antennas Apr 03 22:19:46 neato Apr 03 22:19:57 stefan_schmidt: size fo the db... the db is not every measures, but the result of cellid/position. I have to ask again Nick. He made some evaluation. I think this is in the former public exchanges on the ML Apr 03 22:19:58 what ELSE do I have in here Apr 03 22:20:00 onen: Tell him that you are working on some things so you two can have a look together. Apr 03 22:20:23 home :D Apr 03 22:20:57 onen: I'll ask Dieter if we could implement a forced reselection to particular cell in moko12 (I planned to do this anyway for a long time ;) Apr 03 22:21:17 stefan_schmidt: sure, I am already prepared to see my work even thrown away. as long as the idea stay, it is fine with me Apr 03 22:21:21 stefan_schmidt: had not time for the mail and may not have any until thursday :( Apr 03 22:21:27 hello all btw Apr 03 22:21:47 ptitjes: PTITJES! Apr 03 22:22:10 :) Apr 03 22:23:07 onen: ok, that's good to hear. Don't give up. FOSS world is hard sometimes. Keep your goals in mind :) Apr 03 22:23:15 ptitjes: that's ok, take your time Apr 03 22:23:51 onen: though I'm quite sure this won't be moko11 or moko12, but more like moko@$-underground ;-) Apr 03 22:24:32 DocScrutinizer: moko@openBhunterId ? ;-) (always try to be diplomatic ;-) ) Apr 03 22:24:40 i.e. nobody ever seen it, and for sure nobody using it or - even worse - created it Apr 03 22:25:25 otherwise prepare for visit of the MEN IN BLACK ;D Apr 03 22:26:57 makes me want it :) Apr 03 22:27:02 hehe Apr 03 22:27:21 I know this feeling ;) Apr 03 22:27:32 DocScrutinizer: I have a chicken memory anyway (by the way, why am I here, and who are you?) Apr 03 22:29:32 DocScrutinizer! :D Apr 03 22:31:08 stefan_schmidt: what I have experienced yesterday and today here on irc, is what I was expecting from FOSS, enthousiasm, and people trying to build sth together. Apr 03 22:31:49 onen: welcome! Apr 03 22:31:52 :) Apr 03 22:32:08 ptitjes: hello! :-) Apr 03 22:32:46 stefan_schmidt: thanks again for your embassador role Apr 03 22:33:03 stefan_schmidt: I really want it to succeed Apr 03 22:34:10 I'm so bored of having no time to spend here these days :( Apr 03 22:34:15 what list did the message get send to? Apr 03 22:34:18 what's the news ??? :) Apr 03 22:34:33 ptitjes: and thanks ptitjes who led me to this irc channel! Thank you my goal of gsm/gps db is getting much closer! Apr 03 22:36:47 onen: btw we may use that data a lot in ologicd later... Apr 03 22:37:28 playya: thanks to promote our projects! I've seen that on #vala :D Apr 03 22:37:39 Well, I got my first freerunner all wired up here :P Apr 03 22:37:46 The moment of truth awaits... Apr 03 22:37:49 (or death) Apr 03 22:37:55 ((but let's not hope for that last one)) :P Apr 03 22:37:57 ptitjes: I know, I think we already had a talk at last om meeting where we met, dont'we? Apr 03 22:38:52 Zorkman: if you are refering to the message about gsm/gps: fso-standards and om-devel Apr 03 22:39:14 Ainulindale: Internet? but what is internet ??? Apr 03 22:39:35 onen: humm... :) Apr 03 22:39:45 onen: yes sure :D Apr 03 22:40:46 ptitjes: I have colleagues working on prediciont, learning and so (I even pointed them your project :-) ), so I was aware ologicd would love such input Apr 03 22:41:02 mrmoku: btw ffalarms included by default in the release ? Apr 03 22:41:14 ptitjes: I will try to be unforgetable in FSOSHRUDCON :-P Apr 03 22:41:20 :D Apr 03 22:41:42 onen: wouldn't they be interested in participating to ologicd ? Apr 03 22:42:14 ptitjes: has shr unstable some nice gui for wifi, so that Nick could use the FR without me sshing to it for upload? Apr 03 22:43:06 ptitjes: I don't know, I have given the pointers. please bug me again, until I remember to ask them if they had a look Apr 03 22:43:37 yep Apr 03 22:43:47 how goes it, ptitijes? Apr 03 22:44:00 * DocScrutinizer smiling and sitting back waiting for the answer to just sent mail Apr 03 22:44:02 onen: Nick could use the FR ? Apr 03 22:44:11 Dave: hello! Apr 03 22:44:36 Dave: I'm fine thanks. yet a little overly saturated by work Apr 03 22:45:04 Dave: I had my first break this evening (and went to see Avishai Cohen in concert! so great!!) Apr 03 22:45:10 Dave: and you ? Apr 03 22:45:25 ptitjes: Nick is behind server part of openBmap. he borrows a FR, and logs. but under FSO I don't knwo of a good gui to handle wpa and everything. so that he could connect at home an d upload Apr 03 22:46:10 onen: I think there isn't yet a really good one Apr 03 22:46:44 Awesome Apr 03 22:47:22 Ptitjes, well, I'm about to either a) Electrocute myself b) Explode my freerunner c) Both A and B d) Fix my freerunner Apr 03 22:47:27 VOTE NOW! Apr 03 22:47:33 onen: I know there is Mofy but I personnaly had bad experience with it (I think it is badly programmed because it has freeze. I can't understand people don't know how to instanciate a thread for their work and update the gui in its own thread to make you know it is doing something...) Apr 03 22:47:56 Dave: I have a d) for you Apr 03 22:48:04 Aw, well thanks :D Apr 03 22:48:09 I appreciate your opptimism :P Apr 03 22:48:28 Dave: Fix your freerunner, send it to me and then electrocute yourself Apr 03 22:48:29 :D Apr 03 22:49:06 do you still appreciate? ;) Apr 03 22:49:30 ptitjes: welll......, don't use my logger then :-P use glib add_idle and so forth. did a thread for loging at the beginning, but made the whole program crash. (my view: gtk loop starts with gui, thread starts his life, but it leads to some bad interaction) Apr 03 22:50:39 ptitjes: crash with no message from python, back to command line :-( so when youupload, it freezes the program right now, because the call is done in the graphical thread, plus if I block in the glib loop, it seems to block the gui anyway. Apr 03 22:50:42 hahahah Apr 03 22:50:49 NOW I see what you really wanted :P Apr 03 22:50:52 jerk :D Apr 03 22:51:03 meh, I got plenty more to destroy myself with Apr 03 22:51:07 onen: the secret of good gui programming is exec_async Apr 03 22:51:17 ptitjes: I am all new to glib stuf, so maybe I do not understand all the interactions. know better simple threads (logger was running great until gui came on top :-( ) Apr 03 22:51:27 onen: I don't know what is the python functions for that but yet Apr 03 22:51:36 Joerg, still here? Apr 03 22:51:48 busy, but yeah Apr 03 22:51:57 onen: I do not know the threading things in GLib yet but I don't fear :) Apr 03 22:51:59 wazzup? Apr 03 22:52:03 I have it hooked up correctly to 3V DC, but it won't power on Apr 03 22:52:11 duh Apr 03 22:52:22 sure it's 3V ? Apr 03 22:52:25 haha Apr 03 22:52:29 more or less :P Apr 03 22:52:31 go for 4.5 Apr 03 22:52:36 uggh Apr 03 22:52:37 onen: use mutex to protect your data, or better rw locks Apr 03 22:52:38 fine Apr 03 22:52:45 2.97 Apr 03 22:52:54 onen: launch new thread to execute long operations Apr 03 22:52:56 okay okay, now I have to get a new holder Apr 03 22:53:05 onen: that is all Apr 03 22:53:10 ptitjes: I had big crash because of the python thread when using glib dbus and everything. So even if it is ugly, I update the gui with a message of waiting, and then starts what needs to be done Apr 03 22:53:11 hmm, should work, but maybe bat is getn weak on duty Apr 03 22:53:23 yeah Apr 03 22:53:40 I see it drained a little Apr 03 22:53:53 ptitjes: nevertheless my code has been designed from the beginning thinking multiple clients, so the core has differents Locks, to protect access, and so on Apr 03 22:54:12 onen: but then if your process crash the gui will never be updated. so how the user knows if it has crashed or if it is running ?? Apr 03 22:54:24 onen: that's what I like to hear :) Apr 03 22:54:58 BEER + OPENMOKO == WIN? Apr 03 22:55:02 Dave: do you have USB power plugged into the FR as well when you're doing this? Apr 03 22:55:07 ptitjes: include a clock? (no kidding) Apr 03 22:55:08 Mmontour NO! Apr 03 22:55:11 onen: then make a function that takes a callback and execute that callback in a thread Apr 03 22:56:02 Dave: that'd be a good idea nevertheless :D Apr 03 22:56:05 ptitjes: I know all of this, and the whole code would need to be separated more cleanly, for the moment MVC, so if the core crashes, then everything crashes anyway... I miss a way to push messages to the view (for error by example) Apr 03 22:56:11 Yeah :P Apr 03 22:56:31 I wouldn't try to run the FR from your 3V batteries. You just need the bat to provide a little bit of current on startup, so that the PMU can bring up the CPU and the CPU+uboot can program the right PMU registers Apr 03 22:57:16 ptitjes: well all of this threading thing is no pb for me. It all went a bit wrong with this weird crash. then I moved everything to glib scheduling. Apr 03 22:57:21 mmontour: if there's a uboot menu on screen everything is fine, yes ;) Apr 03 22:57:35 onen: these are the two primitives call another thread to execute something, and reuse the main gui loop to execute a gui thing from a non-gui thread Apr 03 22:58:54 onen: I must look at all that glib thread stuff btw if I want we go on with that MVP stuff Apr 03 22:59:01 stuf stuff Apr 03 22:59:04 at the beginning was: gui gtk (so glib loop if I have understood correclty) + python thread for the log loop + glib for dbus signals Apr 03 22:59:06 too much stuff to do :) Apr 03 22:59:36 ptitjes: MVP stuff? Apr 03 22:59:47 onen: would you like to program in Vala ? Apr 03 22:59:50 :D Apr 03 23:00:09 ptitjes: I'd like we make a MVP framework for Vala/C/Glib Apr 03 23:00:13 ptitjes: and because of the crash, the log loop is schedule using glib scheduling primitives Apr 03 23:00:21 wow I write to myself Apr 03 23:00:25 :D Apr 03 23:00:41 * Dave claps Apr 03 23:00:46 onen: would you like to help us ??? Apr 03 23:00:54 ptitjes: and I think that now, everything is kind of running in the same thread. which sucks (but with all the Locks, I know that if this is not the case, nothing wrong will happen) Apr 03 23:01:07 Okay sweet, so I've located a new holder and found new alligators Apr 03 23:01:24 ptitjes: heard a lot of good about vala. had a quick look at gnome page about it. seems interesting. Apr 03 23:02:43 ptitjes: do you have a "how to start with Vala on the FR" document anywhere ? Apr 03 23:02:45 onen: so we'd like to make a MVP framework in order to have all the gui logic shared between all the instanciations of our apps for the different toolkit Apr 03 23:02:47 +s Apr 03 23:03:00 mirko-paroli: arf not yet Apr 03 23:03:11 mirko-paroli: this is one thing I must do... Apr 03 23:03:11 * mirko-paroli is filled with sadness Apr 03 23:03:38 ptitjes: sorry. I have to sort out how the things will evolve regarding the gsm/gps thing. merging and collaboration may be on their ways. if so, maybe will have more time Apr 03 23:04:15 onen: ok! but keep this in mind! Apr 03 23:04:37 mirko-paroli: just start on your desktop Apr 03 23:04:42 ptitjes: do I need anything problematic to compile Vala on the phone ? Apr 03 23:04:57 mirko-paroli: no. just use oe's recipe Apr 03 23:05:01 I wanted to migrate the gui stuff in paroli to Vala, to have a small start so to speak Apr 03 23:05:08 ehm ... ok Apr 03 23:05:11 will check :) Apr 03 23:05:13 mirko-paroli: yeah!! Apr 03 23:05:51 mirko-paroli: that is good news!! Apr 03 23:05:55 hehe Apr 03 23:06:00 I told you I was all for it :) Apr 03 23:06:15 just needed to migrate to elm first Apr 03 23:06:39 OH NO Apr 03 23:06:43 mirko-paroli: had also in mind to move the gui to paroli, and the core loger of openBmap as a daemon, or sth in this direction Apr 03 23:06:45 * Dave cuts the red wire... Apr 03 23:06:55 Not the red wire!!! Apr 03 23:07:12 blue blue Apr 03 23:07:16 * mirko-paroli runs from the loud BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM coming from Dave's direction Apr 03 23:07:46 ha! still nothing... Apr 03 23:07:52 good bet Dave! Apr 03 23:07:57 :D Apr 03 23:08:00 is the qemu emulation working? I was wondering in order to simulate gps/gsm data, to automatically test my program Apr 03 23:08:01 pffff Apr 03 23:08:12 onen: I would be very happy bout that, I think we all need to work together much more Apr 03 23:08:45 onen: never used it! too slow, too buggy, too old Apr 03 23:09:05 onen: use frameworkd-fake Apr 03 23:09:21 mirko-paroli: as I see things, I would like to have a core portable, and gui can be redone for different platform. but first see how we manage (or not :-( ) to merge our parallel projects about gsm/gps Apr 03 23:09:34 btw ~seen mw Apr 03 23:09:39 ~seen mw Apr 03 23:09:40 ptitjes: i haven't seen 'mw' Apr 03 23:09:53 ptitjes: fake? never heard of this? waht capabilites does it ahve? Apr 03 23:09:54 ~seen mw_ Apr 03 23:09:54 i haven't seen 'mw_', ptitjes Apr 03 23:09:58 grrrrrr Apr 03 23:10:41 onen: sure, portable sounds clever, just let me know if I can help Apr 03 23:10:42 onen: it is a fake frameworkd. it implements the dbus services but have dumb code in it with some gui to simulate the dbus activity Apr 03 23:10:43 * eolson1 keeps checking the minutes from Dave's last response. Apr 03 23:11:07 mirko-paroli: should not happen very soon, if it happens Apr 03 23:11:15 Daaaaaaave! Apr 03 23:11:15 hehe ok Apr 03 23:11:57 . o O (and maybe if the freerunner boots, Dave can call 911) Apr 03 23:12:08 mirko-paroli: but want to move away from gtk, like the concept of elm, which resize things intelligently Apr 03 23:12:16 hello 91 Apr 03 23:12:28 eolson1: so we need to wait some more two minutes :) Apr 03 23:12:29 1hello 91 Apr 03 23:12:29 onen: coding in py ? Apr 03 23:12:44 eolson1: that the fr boots Apr 03 23:12:47 hello 911, i'dd like to report a bad case of BUZZ :) Apr 03 23:12:55 mirko-paroli: yep Apr 03 23:12:55 :)) Apr 03 23:13:10 onen: ah a mirko-readable lang :) Apr 03 23:13:22 mirko-paroli: project was also for learning python + gtk + glade Apr 03 23:13:27 ptitjes, right :) Apr 03 23:13:39 WE HAVE GO FOR LAUNCH Apr 03 23:13:43 eolson1 :P Apr 03 23:14:08 Man, if you're anything like ptitjes, you're just checking to see how long it's been since I've expired... so you can swoop in and steal my remaining functional freerunners :P Apr 03 23:14:14 onen, mirko-paroli: python?? you code a snake ? Apr 03 23:14:32 Dave: héhéhéhé Apr 03 23:14:42 ok guys, need some rest. diplomatic negociations foreseen next days. hope won't finish in cold war ;-) Apr 03 23:14:57 :] Apr 03 23:15:00 ptitjes: if necessary also elephants ... Apr 03 23:15:04 Hope to see you again soon onen :) Apr 03 23:15:12 onen: generaly I try to kill snale before they byte me Apr 03 23:15:15 :D Apr 03 23:15:18 onen: gn Apr 03 23:15:21 and hey, if I get this freerunner up and running, maybe I'll try to put it to good use for you :) Apr 03 23:15:24 s/snale/snake/ Apr 03 23:15:28 ptitjes: is Vala a snake killer ? Apr 03 23:15:29 SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE Apr 03 23:15:38 onen: night Apr 03 23:15:41 Dave: I love you too, Dave ;-) Apr 03 23:16:29 IT'S BOOTING!!! Apr 03 23:16:29 was nice to meet some new people Apr 03 23:16:36 good night Apr 03 23:16:38 Dave, nice, congrats on bringing a freerunner back to life! Apr 03 23:16:39 Btw, I am SO MacGyver right now Apr 03 23:16:45 mirko-paroli: .......C . . . . . ~~~< Apr 03 23:16:53 I made a make-shift bat holder out of paper and scotch tape :P Apr 03 23:16:54 (with the music of PacMan) Apr 03 23:17:00 LOOOOOOO Apr 03 23:17:01 L Apr 03 23:17:12 and I have wired coming out from every side of my freerunner Apr 03 23:17:19 looks like the borg got to it :P Apr 03 23:17:26 has it already become sentient? Apr 03 23:17:30 :O Apr 03 23:17:41 openmokonet Apr 03 23:17:48 he men I go Apr 03 23:17:56 I work again tomorow at 9h Apr 03 23:18:01 so goodnight all! Apr 03 23:18:09 gnight Apr 03 23:18:11 ptitjes: good night Apr 03 23:18:33 nite Apr 03 23:19:23 Goddamn, this 2007 install takes six minutes to boot Apr 03 23:21:50 hahaha Apr 03 23:21:54 FUCK Apr 03 23:21:56 modded it to extremities? Apr 03 23:22:09 Powered itself off again? Apr 03 23:22:14 When did I say it started booting? Apr 03 23:22:18 * Dave scrolls up Apr 03 23:22:37 [01:13] WE HAVE GO FOR LAUNCH ? Apr 03 23:22:39 It's still booting -_- Apr 03 23:22:46 So it's been like nine minutes? Apr 03 23:22:51 [01:22] It's still booting -_- Apr 03 23:22:51 ughghg Apr 03 23:23:14 YES Apr 03 23:23:23 we got signal? Apr 03 23:24:55 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Apr 03 23:24:57 wtf means "booting" then? Apr 03 23:25:07 fuck Apr 03 23:25:36 I just got it plugged in, it was on AC for about 30second, I put in the battery, it then reported it had -1% capacity remaining, and now it just shut off :( Apr 03 23:25:38 Dave: incinerated another one? Apr 03 23:25:41 after I disconnected all my wires and shit Apr 03 23:25:46 gee, I hope not :p Apr 03 23:26:28 Dave: you really should use uboot to charge bat a little Apr 03 23:26:40 Uhhh actually Apr 03 23:26:47 I don't think I ever upgraded the uBoot on this one! Apr 03 23:26:55 Maybe I should check that though :P Apr 03 23:27:19 Dave: leave the USB power connected. Let the battery sit in the device for a few minutes then check to see if it's charged at all Apr 03 23:27:20 also if this is the OLD uboot, it also had that annoying menu_list bug where it shutoff due to inactivity Apr 03 23:27:23 I recently heard about nasty complications of FR shutting down when bat low, so you never achieve to swap the starterpack for the real bat Apr 03 23:27:36 Mmontour it did, since it's trying now to boot off the battery Apr 03 23:27:42 so it must have gotten a little charged Apr 03 23:27:47 I'm now waiting for it to shut off :P Apr 03 23:27:50 Dave: shutoff of uboot isn't a problem Apr 03 23:27:58 bat schould charge nevertheless Apr 03 23:28:05 presumably it will die midway though this nine-minute boot process :) Apr 03 23:28:23 uh oh, I think I just got OMSoD -_- Apr 03 23:28:28 fuck Apr 03 23:28:29 As long as the PMU "charger enabled" bit is on you can at least trickle-charge (100mA) even if the CPU is off Apr 03 23:28:31 Oh wait, there it goes :D Apr 03 23:28:57 right, I know :) Apr 03 23:29:31 Dave: kickstart to uboot menu, swap bat, power down, drink tea ;D Apr 03 23:29:42 yeah I wish Apr 03 23:29:52 that's a good idea though Apr 03 23:29:59 * Dave goes to heat up some water Apr 03 23:30:12 FREERUNNER WATERHEATER MOD?? Apr 03 23:30:17 :D Apr 03 23:30:17 Dave: don't forget to swap the bat first ;) Apr 03 23:30:33 I almost swapped the freerunner with my electric tea kettle Apr 03 23:30:45 hehe Apr 03 23:30:47 I get too many crazy ideas :P Apr 03 23:31:21 I think the channel can vouch for that Apr 03 23:31:22 well use the egg-boiler to prepare a 3min-FR ;-) Apr 03 23:31:48 Woot, it's charging now! Apr 03 23:31:53 1A :D Apr 03 23:32:05 Joerg XD Apr 03 23:32:06 hahahaha Apr 03 23:32:15 Man, joerg's on fire tonight ;) Apr 03 23:32:38 Joerg, I wish my boot process took under 3min :P Apr 03 23:32:41 yeah actually feeling like kidding a little today Apr 03 23:33:09 I like it Apr 03 23:33:24 Nexuiz 2.5 Is out! :D Get it now! http://alientrap.org/nexuiz/ http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4821677 Apr 03 23:33:31 arfarfarf Apr 03 23:34:09 woof? Apr 03 23:34:32 Thanks to 1A charging, I'm already 7% of the way there! Apr 03 23:34:36 meow? Apr 03 23:34:41 Now, time for that tea.. :) Apr 03 23:35:05 a brilliant iTea Apr 03 23:48:36 gonna do some reading, goodnight all Apr 03 23:48:53 hope your insurances covers everything the fr can do dave ;) Apr 03 23:49:03 night Zorkman Apr 03 23:49:09 Now is the time I really wish any of those backup programs actually worked. Apr 03 23:51:06 25% Apr 03 23:53:35 omg, Zorkman, guess what I can do in the interim... :o Apr 04 00:06:20 * DocScrutinizer wonders whether OM's insurance will still cover incidents after OM evetually is out of business ;-) Apr 04 00:07:00 or maybe they don't have any at all 8-o Apr 04 00:07:49 :D Apr 04 00:09:39 maybe you can get enough bricks from them to build a new house if FR incinerated yours XD Apr 04 00:10:05 ouch Apr 04 00:11:19 * DocScrutinizer is evil today Apr 04 00:13:29 juri. Apr 04 00:13:35 forgot to do smthg Apr 04 00:13:41 [01:53] omg, Zorkman, guess what I can do in the interim... :o Apr 04 00:13:48 does it involve transformers? :p Apr 04 00:14:31 dave. Apr 04 00:14:43 hehe Apr 04 00:15:00 Zorkman, I updated myself on tango friends... and now scouting around ;) Apr 04 00:15:10 Zorkman, thankfully no lulu sightings as of yet :D Apr 04 00:15:14 maybe she gave up.. :x Apr 04 00:16:36 hehe Apr 04 00:17:54 * Dave searches for Zorkman Apr 04 00:18:07 Am I going to be sorrowly disappointed? Apr 04 00:19:45 yes Apr 04 00:20:05 :[ Apr 04 00:20:09 been a while since used it because tanggps couldn't get a gps fix on shr-testi$ng Apr 04 00:20:15 assy Apr 04 00:20:21 fso-gpsd givin you problems? Apr 04 00:20:43 53% Apr 04 00:20:55 it's a bug that is already fixed in fso and in unstable, but testing is a bit behind :) Apr 04 00:21:07 i applied the patch a whilo ago but haven't tested it Apr 04 00:21:47 aw Apr 04 00:21:53 europe still beats america big time in tangogps :) Apr 04 00:22:07 If only we could leave short messages for each other on tango Apr 04 00:22:20 OR put in a comment field for our person icons on the map : Apr 04 00:22:21 :D Apr 04 00:22:28 I'll ask Marcus :P Apr 04 00:22:31 yeah i already e-mailed marcus about it the day tangogps got the friends function Apr 04 00:22:41 but bother him again please :) Apr 04 00:23:08 one of the two guys in china is called Africa1986 Apr 04 00:23:12 long way from home Apr 04 00:24:05 goodnight (this time for real :)) Apr 04 00:27:38 ok Apr 04 00:27:41 truste :] Apr 04 00:29:24 yo Dave! Apr 04 00:32:03 hei ferric :] Apr 04 00:32:11 welcome back, eolson :P Apr 04 00:35:41 Dave!!! Apr 04 00:39:23 am I supposed to do something special in order for my auto tools libs and includes to go to deploy to staging (using bitbake) or is it supposed to happen by itself? Apr 04 00:39:32 Dave! Apr 04 00:40:14 from looking at other .bb s it seems that it should happen automatically Apr 04 00:40:24 Hei Quatrox :D Apr 04 00:40:34 Tasn, and why aren't YOU on tango friends?? Apr 04 00:40:37 :] Apr 04 00:40:46 maybe because you never have a stable enough freerunner to use :P Apr 04 00:40:53 Dave, I rarely use the gps ;] Apr 04 00:41:01 Dave, my freerunner is always stable Apr 04 00:41:03 Aww Apr 04 00:41:06 except when connected to the computer Apr 04 00:41:11 :P Apr 04 00:41:11 that's when I abuse him. Apr 04 00:41:12 haha Apr 04 00:41:13 yeah Apr 04 00:41:17 I was going to say Apr 04 00:41:45 * Dave urges Tasn to join the collective Apr 04 00:41:50 ;] Apr 04 00:42:07 first thing first Apr 04 00:42:11 I have to solve this issue! Apr 04 00:43:02 fine fine :P Apr 04 00:43:05 You better! Apr 04 00:43:09 *shakes fist* Apr 04 00:43:34 bah, why doesn't it populate the staging dir?! Apr 04 00:44:09 Because you have it setup incorrectly Apr 04 00:44:16 (at least in bb's mind) Apr 04 00:44:17 :P Apr 04 00:44:24 Didn't we have this conversation just the other day Apr 04 00:44:53 75% Apr 04 00:45:06 I think we had Apr 04 00:45:11 though not about staging Apr 04 00:45:21 about me not handling bitbake correctly ;] Apr 04 00:50:01 :D Apr 04 00:51:00 budfive! Apr 04 00:51:11 Dave: whoa! Apr 04 00:51:34 * budfive just got a openwrt-worthy router. yay Apr 04 00:51:42 \o/ Apr 04 00:51:44 Congratulations! Apr 04 00:51:51 Enjoy the bliss and freedom that is wrt. Apr 04 00:52:02 Not to mention awesome fucking well-functioning router software :P Apr 04 00:52:42 Dave: the euros all sleeping? Apr 04 00:54:53 well, when you can't do it right, statically link. Apr 04 00:54:54 ... Apr 04 00:54:54 ;] Apr 04 00:55:02 pretty much Apr 04 00:55:11 haha naughty tasns Apr 04 00:55:20 ^ ^ Apr 04 00:55:25 Okay, the experiment must now be expanded. Apr 04 00:55:28 I need more freerunners! Apr 04 00:55:37 I spent the last few hours trying to solve it. Apr 04 00:55:42 * Dave waves his hands and a pile of dead black brick-like things appear in his lap Apr 04 00:55:48 ;] Apr 04 00:55:49 Dave: what are you doing? :) Apr 04 00:56:38 Dave is mobilizing his bot-army Apr 04 00:56:43 :D Apr 04 00:56:53 See, I have a bot army. and Joerg has a bat army ;) Apr 04 01:00:13 Dave: no, really. i'm curious. anything that involves many freerunners is interesting. If some of them died in the process, it's even more interesting Apr 04 01:01:05 hmm, there should be a picture gallery of freerunners somewhere Apr 04 01:01:10 Well, welcome to my world, budfive :) Apr 04 01:01:14 and if the death was gruesome, and involved flames, that would be even more interesting. Apr 04 01:01:23 Fuck it Apr 04 01:01:31 You must be a NASCAR fan, wester :P Apr 04 01:02:26 No, too boring. I am a Danica Patrick fan, though. :p Apr 04 01:02:52 * quatrox things burned plastic smells bad Apr 04 01:03:12 s/things/thinks/ Apr 04 01:03:54 mwester, no wonder your domain is registered at godaddy Apr 04 01:04:11 :P Apr 04 01:04:32 nah, it was registered there before she signed up with them... so that's because I'm cheap. :P Apr 04 01:04:59 yeah, same here, it's just cheap and easy not to switch hosts Apr 04 01:05:16 s/hosts/registrars Apr 04 01:07:38 budfive: rotfl Apr 04 01:08:43 one european less n8 everyone Apr 04 01:10:16 night mirko Apr 04 01:10:33 wonderful: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/04/03/atandt-tweaks-wireless-terms-of-service-to-forbid-video-streaming/ Apr 04 01:11:08 mwester, haha Apr 04 01:11:18 the url says it all Apr 04 01:11:50 too bad the FR is way too slow for this to matter :) Apr 04 01:12:15 it is not Apr 04 01:12:30 video streaming over gprs? Apr 04 01:12:31 i don't care Apr 04 01:12:53 works great to stream preencoded video over 3g Apr 04 01:13:02 hehe, they did videophones over ISDN Apr 04 01:13:12 haha Apr 04 01:13:17 yeah, but gprs << 3g and isdn Apr 04 01:13:31 then use a 3g dongle Apr 04 01:13:36 or wifi Apr 04 01:13:49 nope, gprs is same league as isdn Apr 04 01:14:59 anyway that wasn't video either Apr 04 01:15:11 hmm... one thing you could do, is share 3g internet from your other phone over BT to the neo Apr 04 01:15:43 or simply plug a usb-stick Apr 04 01:16:08 if you have one Apr 04 01:16:19 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/04/03/atandt-retracts-new-terms-of-service-apologizes/ Apr 04 01:16:22 hahaha Apr 04 01:16:46 hmpf no, I always plug in things I don't have ;) Apr 04 01:16:53 April Fools, anyone? Apr 04 01:16:56 ¬_¬ Apr 04 01:17:02 Motherfuckers :P Apr 04 01:17:47 Dave: it's over. Apr 1. was some days ago Apr 04 01:18:02 Dave is in the past Apr 04 01:18:38 TIME TRAVEL Apr 04 01:18:48 maybe I accidentally engaged the flux capacitor when I was jumping the phone earlier :D Apr 04 01:19:13 eeek, my FR opened another tunneeeeeeeellll Apr 04 01:19:25 Dave: why did you jumped on the phone? Apr 04 01:19:35 :P Apr 04 01:19:36 hhehheeeeehehehehee Apr 04 01:19:50 :D Apr 04 01:20:31 Doc: ssl tunnels are scary Apr 04 01:20:47 time tunnel Apr 04 01:20:53 ohh Apr 04 01:20:53 :O Apr 04 01:20:56 SSLT? Apr 04 01:21:01 yes Apr 04 01:21:09 I've inadvertently invented a new protocol? Apr 04 01:21:14 port 0 Apr 04 01:21:34 :O Apr 04 01:21:36 UMPOSSIBLE! Apr 04 01:21:44 DOES NOT COMPUTE Apr 04 01:21:48 * Dave divides by zero Apr 04 01:22:06 Dave: stop making black holes Apr 04 01:22:14 :D Apr 04 01:22:24 Fine, first you blame me for destroying OM... Apr 04 01:22:32 sooo? Apr 04 01:22:36 Next you're blaming me for destroying the universe. Apr 04 01:22:37 Dave: you mustn't use negative index on arrays Apr 04 01:22:57 hey, it's not *my* fault it doesn't implicitly perform bounds-checking FOR me ;p Apr 04 01:22:57 ehh Apr 04 01:22:59 ada? Apr 04 01:23:05 that's funny Apr 04 01:23:48 ooof. Is anybody with the latest SHR kernel and an SD card seeing low-level kernel errors? Apr 04 01:24:08 followup: anybody with that kernel and an SD card in their FR care to do a quick test for me? Apr 04 01:25:55 http://secretsauce.net:5050/SDerrors after a few minutes of fsck-ing. Apr 04 01:26:39 :o Apr 04 01:26:44 kinky Apr 04 01:40:06 bah, it's already 5 am Apr 04 01:40:13 D: Apr 04 01:40:15 and I haven't solved this stupid issue Apr 04 01:40:28 are you by any chance an oe expert? Apr 04 01:40:29 ;] Apr 04 01:41:29 haha hell no Apr 04 01:41:35 I struggle with bb along with everyone else Apr 04 01:43:06 TAsn: ask away; maybe somebody already fought your battle Apr 04 01:43:59 for some reason files don't got to staging Apr 04 01:44:09 i'm trying to build this: Apr 04 01:44:11 http://fribidi.org/download/fribidi-0.10.9.tar.gz Apr 04 01:44:15 I get a package that works Apr 04 01:44:27 shit Apr 04 01:44:36 though the libs don't go to the staging dir, same goes for the include headers Apr 04 01:44:42 blah Apr 04 01:44:49 autotools seems to be configured correctly Apr 04 01:44:52 and I'm using the simplest bb. Apr 04 01:44:53 ;\ Apr 04 01:45:05 TAsn: i saw this yesterday :) Apr 04 01:45:13 saw what? Apr 04 01:45:22 things not getting staged correctly Apr 04 01:45:27 and? ;] Apr 04 01:45:43 the package i was building was installing into stage-pkg and image Apr 04 01:45:59 and only the stage-pkg contents were moved into the correct place by populate_stage Apr 04 01:46:05 the answer was... one sec Apr 04 01:46:59 i added the following to the recipe Apr 04 01:47:02 do_stage() { Apr 04 01:47:02 autotools_stage_all Apr 04 01:47:02 } Apr 04 01:47:32 hey, I saw that once. Apr 04 01:47:37 sec, trying. Apr 04 01:47:44 seems like something that should automatically happen, but it didn't. the package I was working on was libtinymail_svn Apr 04 01:49:16 freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r98cb27d28291 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/unsolicited.py: Apr 04 01:49:16 freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Acknowledge status report messages right away Apr 04 01:49:16 freesmartphone.org: Status reports need to be acknowledged with AT+CNMA=1, but we want to do Apr 04 01:49:16 freesmartphone.org: that every time. There's nothing to be gained from deferring this to the Apr 04 01:49:18 freesmartphone.org: DBus client. Apr 04 01:50:47 OMG Apr 04 01:51:03 I wasted 6 hrs to hear that?! Apr 04 01:51:04 TAsn: did that fix it? Apr 04 01:51:06 yeah. Apr 04 01:51:22 thanks a lot. Apr 04 01:51:26 TAsn: i wasted a few hours yesterday working on that a few similar retarded things Apr 04 01:51:29 I still can't believe I wasted so much time. Apr 04 01:51:34 ;[ Apr 04 01:51:44 TAsn: only to discover that the app i was building was bug-ridden and crashy :( Apr 04 01:51:50 especially since I saw this thing in some other places. Apr 04 01:52:04 budfive, the night is still young Apr 04 01:52:10 I may discover that myself in half an hour. Apr 04 01:52:10 ;] Apr 04 01:52:19 TAsn: what are building? Apr 04 01:52:31 trying to play with e a bit Apr 04 01:52:34 to add rtl support Apr 04 01:52:53 what's rtl? Apr 04 01:52:57 fridibi is a gpled implementation of the unicode bidi algorithm Apr 04 01:53:00 right to left text Apr 04 01:53:57 oh. i see. if you regularly use one of those languages, it really seems like everything about your computing life has several extra levels of complexity. Apr 04 01:54:07 yeah ;[ Apr 04 01:54:11 this sucks badly. Apr 04 01:54:13 right-to-left Apr 04 01:54:19 I hate rtl! Apr 04 01:54:23 INDEED Apr 04 01:54:27 fuck that rtl shit Apr 04 01:54:35 yeah ;[ Apr 04 01:54:39 messed my life badly. Apr 04 01:54:41 It's LTR or it's TERRORISM! Apr 04 01:54:46 ! Apr 04 01:54:51 WAR!!!!!!! Apr 04 01:54:52 You can quote me on that ;D Apr 04 01:55:31 I'm thinking about starting an anarchist organization, we'll bomb/kidnap and kill until the world will knee to my demands, no RTL. Apr 04 01:55:39 and free beer. Apr 04 01:56:55 bah, compiling is soo long :( Apr 04 01:57:08 budfive, btw, what were you building yesterday? Apr 04 01:57:24 was trying to get tmut running (small, mail client) Apr 04 01:57:34 oh, sweet. Apr 04 01:57:36 TAsn: RTC Apr 04 01:57:40 LTC Apr 04 01:57:41 got it build finally, but it keeps crashing Apr 04 01:57:43 I bet it doesn't have rtl support though ;] Apr 04 01:57:51 probably not :) Apr 04 01:57:54 budfive, ;\ Apr 04 01:57:58 quatrox, ? Apr 04 01:58:07 right to center Apr 04 01:58:09 today i'll probably just try to run claws and see if it's fast enough Apr 04 01:58:42 then you can mirror stuff Apr 04 01:58:46 hmm Apr 04 01:58:57 ncurses have nice support for that Apr 04 01:59:14 I never heard about this term ;\ Apr 04 01:59:17 link?;] Apr 04 01:59:22 :D Apr 04 01:59:27 budfive, THANKS! Apr 04 01:59:29 it's done Apr 04 01:59:33 TAsn: no worries Apr 04 01:59:36 compiling after depending on that staging. Apr 04 01:59:45 TAsn: you don't happen to have an SD card in your FR? :) Apr 04 01:59:52 budfive, I do. Apr 04 01:59:58 I have 5 lying around here Apr 04 02:00:17 TAsn: can you do a fsck, and see if it crashes your kernel after a few minutes? Apr 04 02:00:30 http://secretsauce.net:5050/SDerrors Apr 04 02:00:45 this is with the latest kernel from shr Apr 04 02:01:09 budfive, not a good time Apr 04 02:01:13 It's 5am Apr 04 02:01:18 and I want to get this thing done Apr 04 02:01:24 \o/ Apr 04 02:01:26 sorry. Apr 04 02:01:27 ;[ Apr 04 02:01:34 TAsn: haha. it's ok Apr 04 02:01:40 I might install latest unstable on µSD Apr 04 02:01:47 that reminds me, I need more µSDs Apr 04 02:01:48 -_- Apr 04 02:01:51 TAsn: http://om.quatrox.org/rtc Apr 04 02:01:56 and multi adaptors Apr 04 02:01:58 budfive: i think i will learn some things about the kernel tonight :) Apr 04 02:02:00 quatrox :) Apr 04 02:02:00 quatrox, thanks! Apr 04 02:02:05 Bud5, I hope so :) Apr 04 02:02:12 It'd be interesting to see what you get Apr 04 02:02:13 quatrox, very intuitive Apr 04 02:02:22 lol Apr 04 02:02:43 I really don't get what you mean by right to center ;] Apr 04 02:02:57 quatrox ftw Apr 04 02:03:03 that reminds me... Apr 04 02:03:08 * Dave digs up the soldering diagram Apr 04 02:04:30 wtf Apr 04 02:04:33 it's actually working Apr 04 02:04:34 ;] Apr 04 02:04:37 I have rtl Apr 04 02:04:39 still buggy Apr 04 02:04:41 but rtl. Apr 04 02:05:07 I never thought this day would come. Apr 04 02:05:14 glad? :P Apr 04 02:06:03 yaar. 2.6.24 seems to not crash with the SD. >:O Apr 04 02:06:38 Dave, shocked! Apr 04 02:06:45 TAsn: http://om.quatrox.org/ncurses/ Apr 04 02:06:47 to be honest. I never thought this day would come Apr 04 02:06:51 look at typewriter Apr 04 02:06:52 s/./,/ Apr 04 02:06:53 TAsn meant: to be honest, I never thought this day would come Apr 04 02:07:59 quatrox, it doesn't seem right. Apr 04 02:08:05 what about mixed hebrew and english? Apr 04 02:08:39 What happens when the text meets in the middle? Apr 04 02:08:49 hehe Apr 04 02:09:54 then you continue on next line Apr 04 02:10:14 from r&l Apr 04 02:17:26 :D Apr 04 02:17:36 too many R's and L's Apr 04 02:17:42 what are we doing, playing videogames now? :P Apr 04 02:18:33 hmmm Apr 04 02:18:44 good idea Apr 04 02:20:14 we have snes9x or similar for the neo Apr 04 02:20:21 so should be possible Apr 04 02:20:28 only lack a video out Apr 04 02:20:59 to connect it to the pocket size projector Apr 04 02:32:01 another goodie that would have been almost for free on gta03 but was considered "we don't need" :-( Apr 04 02:32:25 same as line-in to record decent stereo Apr 04 02:33:31 DocScrutinizer: but the current GTA03 will never be realized? Apr 04 02:33:37 which is absolutely for free even in gta02 Apr 04 02:33:47 quatrox: seems no Apr 04 02:34:19 so maybe GTA03 (in 2011) will have it Apr 04 02:34:35 yup, lol Apr 04 02:35:39 anyway, it is not much point before that time Apr 04 02:36:10 because pocket sized projectors are too expensive right now Apr 04 02:36:38 quatrox: there's more nice projects on this planet than just gta03 ;-) Apr 04 02:36:52 I know Apr 04 02:37:14 I have flashed my linksys routers Apr 04 02:37:26 there are dreambox Apr 04 02:38:26 not to mention Atmels STK500 Apr 04 02:38:32 :o Apr 04 02:40:22 is there another open-ish phone project? Apr 04 02:40:34 gnuphone? Apr 04 02:40:58 http://notnews.today.com/2008/09/22/free-software-foundation-announces-gnuphone/ Apr 04 02:41:23 geez Apr 04 02:42:01 It would be very cool to actually have a gnuphone Apr 04 02:42:29 the question Apr 04 02:43:19 “What could be more intuitive than a bash prompt?” said seventeen-year-old Debian developer Hiram Nerdboy. “The ultimate one-dimensional desktop! Just type dial voice +1-555-1212 –ntwk verizon –prot cdma2000 –ssh-version 2 -a -l -q -9 -b -k -K 14 -x and away you go! Simple and obvious!” Apr 04 02:43:46 that reminds me of the dbus thing we do on the neo Apr 04 02:44:06 except the gnuphone look to have a simplified version Apr 04 02:44:14 just a one-liner Apr 04 02:44:20 :) Apr 04 02:44:55 A-netz. I've been joking about it for a few days. interesting Apr 04 02:45:35 tis a koffertelefon Apr 04 02:46:12 hehe A-net Apr 04 02:47:00 cool you nad no need of any dial or keys back when. just grab receiver and tell what you want Apr 04 02:47:43 we're far from that today Apr 04 02:47:52 ;D Apr 04 02:48:42 we have a lot of work to do in order to get there Apr 04 02:48:57 and when we do, GTA03 will come out Apr 04 02:49:04 to our parents Apr 04 02:49:09 and grand parents Apr 04 02:49:17 and everyone else Apr 04 02:49:19 though nokia recognizes even names that were just entered by typing in, still you can dial them by voicecommand, without training Apr 04 02:50:11 DocScrutinizer: back then I was a lil kid Apr 04 02:50:36 DocScrutinizer: but I sign your statement we are far from any transparency Apr 04 02:50:52 just look at qualcomm. pseude free system Apr 04 02:51:04 :) Apr 04 02:51:07 have maximum of hardware controlled by radio proc Apr 04 02:52:45 so where is smd1 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 04 02:59:57 2009