**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 08 02:59:57 2009
Apr 08 03:02:23 <TAsn> nvm
Apr 08 03:02:26 <TAsn> got around that.
Apr 08 03:02:28 <playya> wtf? bb builds 0.5.6 but i have a 0.6.0 and a 0.7.0
Apr 08 03:03:32 <raster> playya: bingo
Apr 08 03:03:34 <raster> only a 0.6
Apr 08 03:03:44 <raster> but om-prefeerred versions wants 0.5.7
Apr 08 03:03:47 <raster> whihc has no recipe
Apr 08 03:03:55 <raster> and 0.6 barfs building
Apr 08 03:04:19 <playya> i used bitbake -crebuild. so no depency to OM
Apr 08 03:04:51 <TAsn> do you have shr-autorev?
Apr 08 03:04:55 <raster> it depends on your chosen distro
Apr 08 03:04:55 <TAsn> cause for some reason I don't.
Apr 08 03:05:02 <raster> distro can set preferred versions of a package
Apr 08 03:05:05 <raster> om sets 0.5.7
Apr 08 03:05:13 <playya> this was in my fso-testing dir
Apr 08 03:05:29 <raster>  1:05PM ~/oe/oe/conf/distro > grep -r vala .
Apr 08 03:05:34 <raster> ./include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc:PREFERRED_VERSION_vala ?= "0.5.7"
Apr 08 03:05:35 <raster> ./include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc:PREFERRED_VERSION_vala-native ?= "0.5.7"
Apr 08 03:05:51 <raster> this is org.openembedded.dev
Apr 08 03:06:07 <raster> ie oe main stream dev
Apr 08 03:07:33 <playya> ok. didn't know that
Apr 08 03:07:56 <TAsn> playya, do you have shr-autorev?
Apr 08 03:08:12 <playya> i don't know.
Apr 08 03:08:39 <playya> i was lazy today. so i used the makefile to create the basix stuff for shr image
Apr 08 03:09:27 <TAsn> fuck it
Apr 08 03:09:32 <TAsn> I'm building from scratch.
Apr 08 03:09:58 <playya> me too. just to download OE and switch to correst branch
Apr 08 03:10:06 <TAsn> ;[
Apr 08 03:10:07 <TAsn> night.
Apr 08 03:10:09 <playya> s/est/ect
Apr 08 03:10:14 <playya> night
Apr 08 03:10:22 <playya> shr still building ...
Apr 08 03:11:11 <TAsn> it'll be building here for days
Apr 08 03:11:11 <TAsn> ;\
Apr 08 03:11:49 <TAsn> how much is the inital make setup?
Apr 08 03:12:38 <fredrin> http://folk.uio.no/fredrin/ok.png and http://folk.uio.no/fredrin/bor0k.png why? Who is to blame? X, E or omrotate? 
Apr 08 03:12:44 <fredrin> glamo?
Apr 08 03:13:22 <TAsn> no idea
Apr 08 03:13:24 <TAsn> though rotate
Apr 08 03:13:27 <TAsn> and then rotate back
Apr 08 03:13:29 <TAsn> and it fixes
Apr 08 03:13:30 <TAsn> iirc.
Apr 08 03:13:41 <fredrin> just shaking the phone makes de screen good.... 
Apr 08 03:13:52 <fredrin> just fliping back and forth 
Apr 08 03:14:11 <fredrin> i like it in widescreen mode though 
Apr 08 03:21:47 <Dave> hmm
Apr 08 03:33:11 <playya> anyone knows a good paper about C idioms?
Apr 08 04:42:58 <tmzt> TAsn: you can git checkout one file
Apr 08 05:56:57 <PaulFertser> spaetz: Hey :) Any idea how often the shr-unstable kernel builds?
Apr 08 06:00:53 <budfive_> PaulFertser: I made my gsm-death bug happen again. This time with a log. The calypso has issues 
Apr 08 06:00:56 <budfive_> PaulFertser: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2264
Apr 08 06:02:58 <PaulFertser> budfive_: man, i wish everyone was as fluent with building uart converters as you :)
Apr 08 06:03:11 <budfive_> :)
Apr 08 06:03:52 <budfive_> PaulFertser: did you look at the log? someone armed with the calypso docs should be able to figure some things out
Apr 08 06:04:17 <PaulFertser> budfive_: nice joke :)
Apr 08 06:04:52 <PaulFertser> budfive_: actually OM has only AT command intepreter sources. Other parts of the firmware are object files. And DSP is in ROM (==not accessible at all)
Apr 08 06:05:29 <PaulFertser> budfive_: The best way to draw attention to your bugreport is to CC Dieter, as he's the guy who spent plenty of time on re-ing calypso :)
Apr 08 06:06:12 <PaulFertser> budfive_: and Doc says that the debug output is not documented at all. Also a windows tool (pco2?) exists to decode binary data (and somehow interact with the modem).
Apr 08 06:08:20 <PaulFertser> budfive_: calypso is uber-nasty :( BTW, does limiting download speed solve it for you? It'd be an easy workaround.
Apr 08 06:09:53 <budfive_> PaulFertser: oof. I'm already talking to dieter about 1024. We're going to become best friends i think.
Apr 08 06:10:45 <budfive_> PaulFertser: but OM fixed #666, so they must have a bit more than just the AT parser, right? Or did TI fix #666?
Apr 08 06:10:47 <PaulFertser> budfive_: hehe, i wish i could see how he works. :)
Apr 08 06:11:27 <budfive_> PaulFertser: 666 was a major show-stopper for me as well. I'm hitting all of the calypso snags it seems
Apr 08 06:11:34 <PaulFertser> budfive_: i guess it was TI, in fact you can use a special command to see the date of last update of various firmware parts (look it up at OM wiki).
Apr 08 06:12:14 <PaulFertser> budfive_: dieter is disassembling all other parts anyway, but to the best of my knowledge only one part is available in source form.
Apr 08 06:14:05 <fredrin> :) 
Apr 08 06:16:55 <fredrin> andrenarchy 
Apr 08 06:18:58 <andrenarchy> hi fredrin
Apr 08 06:19:26 <PaulFertser> budfive_: the source includes also some stuff like GPIO, serial initialization etc. Everything needed to customize it to particular board, but all lower layers are hidden. AFAIK.
Apr 08 06:19:46 <PaulFertser> budfive_: was it max3232 you used?
Apr 08 06:20:07 <PaulFertser> budfive_: did you avoid any output _to_ calypso?
Apr 08 06:24:45 <budfive_> PaulFertser: i had some boards that used a max3221. I repurposed the board. Also, the data is pushed by the calypso. I didn't send anything to it.
Apr 08 06:27:33 <PaulFertser> budfive_: exactly what was needed. Thanks a lot for your efforts :)
Apr 08 06:28:06 <spaetz> PaulFertser: it automatically tracks andy-tracking now, but it will only be build if someone triggers an image or a kernel build
Apr 08 06:28:27 <spaetz> so not regularly, check out the file date in the download dir, would be my best guess :)
Apr 08 06:30:20 <PaulFertser> spaetz: do that now, so unstable users will be able to use bluetooth again, please :)
Apr 08 06:30:45 <PaulFertser> spaetz: (kernel build)
Apr 08 06:30:57 <spaetz> I can't, sorry
Apr 08 06:31:17 <spaetz> currently, Ainulindale would be the only one, with mrmoku being on holiday
Apr 08 06:35:17 <PaulFertser> "Rape me; rape me, my friend. Rape me; Rape me again. Am i the only one..."
Apr 08 06:40:06 <methril|work> morning
Apr 08 06:50:55 <PaulFertser> Guys, have anyone tried to disable slowing down uSD access when GPS is turned on (provided you have a hardware fix)?
Apr 08 07:03:14 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: morning :)
Apr 08 07:03:36 <mirko-paroli> hi PaulFertser
Apr 08 07:05:04 <mirko-paroli> how are you today?
Apr 08 07:06:32 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: i'm ok. And you? BTW, wanna take a look at another scary calypso bug? https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2264
Apr 08 07:08:08 <mirko-paroli> PaulFertser: I am not bad either, just still tired ... 
Apr 08 07:08:48 <mirko-paroli> hmm...sadly calypso bugs and low-level stuff is beyond my ability
Apr 08 07:09:32 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: Luckily we still have Dieter in team :)
Apr 08 07:09:41 <mirko-paroli> hehe
Apr 08 07:10:02 <mirko-paroli> I am building sth to activate gprs from paroli right now
Apr 08 07:10:22 <mirko-paroli> so we will stumble across the prob soon as well :(
Apr 08 07:10:59 <tobii_> I'm starting doom and I get 4 green screens with loading and after 5-10 seconds it crashes
Apr 08 07:11:11 <tobii_> anyone know to fix that?
Apr 08 07:11:24 <tobii_> i use SHR
Apr 08 07:11:24 <fredrin> doom :D
Apr 08 07:11:26 <tobii_> :)
Apr 08 07:12:31 <tobii_> it is so boring at work
Apr 08 07:12:35 <tobii_> i want to play
Apr 08 07:12:36 <tobii_> :/
Apr 08 07:16:27 <PaulFertser> tobii_: numptyphysics is the word :)
Apr 08 07:24:19 <fredrin> PaulFertser: too small
Apr 08 07:24:38 <fredrin> not finger friendly 
Apr 08 07:26:36 <tobii_> i want doom
Apr 08 07:26:38 <tobii_> :(
Apr 08 07:31:12 <fredrin> do you need to turn on the accelometers? 
Apr 08 07:32:27 <tobii_> no my problem is the screen
Apr 08 07:32:48 <tobii_> i have 4 little green sections on the display
Apr 08 07:33:06 <tobii_> i see that the game starts
Apr 08 07:33:12 <tobii_> but its green
Apr 08 07:33:15 <tobii_> :/
Apr 08 07:33:32 <tobii_> and it is crashing after 10 seconds
Apr 08 07:52:32 * PaulFertser can't wait to see a Dieter response to the latest findings...
Apr 08 07:54:11 <lindi-> PaulFertser: which ones? did budfive_ report his bug? ;)
Apr 08 07:54:26 <PaulFertser> lindi-: yeah and his report is amazing.
Apr 08 07:54:29 <PaulFertser> lindi-: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2264
Apr 08 07:54:46 <dent> Rakshasa: ping :)
Apr 08 07:54:50 <budfive_> I told dieter about it by the way. He's busy looking at 1024 for me right now, though :)
Apr 08 07:57:15 <PaulFertser> budfive_: looking at 1024 for you, hehehe
Apr 08 07:57:15 <budfive_> anybody here know git?
Apr 08 07:57:19 <budfive_> PaulFertser: :)
Apr 08 07:57:30 <budfive_> PaulFertser: i'm feeding him logs. 
Apr 08 07:57:40 <lindi-> budfive_: cool
Apr 08 07:57:44 <PaulFertser> budfive_: must be tasty
Apr 08 07:58:25 <budfive_> anybody know how to move back in a git history without checking out a new branch?
Apr 08 07:58:33 <budfive_> I can move forward with a "git merge"
Apr 08 07:58:38 <budfive_> how can i move back?
Apr 08 07:58:59 <PaulFertser> budfive_: git checkout revision
Apr 08 07:59:23 <budfive_> doesn't that move to a new branch? 
Apr 08 07:59:28 <PaulFertser> budfive_: you'll have a particular revision checked out without any branch. You'll be able to create a branch latter.
Apr 08 07:59:59 <PaulFertser> budfive_: anyway branching is extremely cheap, no need to worry about it.
Apr 08 07:59:59 <budfive_> right. but i don't want that. if i want to move forward, "git merge" will do that for me, while staying in the current branch
Apr 08 08:00:14 <lindi-> i need to fix my avr stuff so that i can log this cool output from the uncool proprietary program :P
Apr 08 08:00:33 <PaulFertser> budfive_: if you want your current branch to be merged with some other branch, git merge will do that, yes. So what?
Apr 08 08:00:53 * PaulFertser thinks lindi- is envious
Apr 08 08:01:11 <budfive_> PaulFertser: well, when going backwards, merge doesn't make much sense. I want to get rid of patches, not add them
Apr 08 08:01:34 <budfive_> PaulFertser: recently i've only been using darcs. It's a different world
Apr 08 08:01:37 <PaulFertser> budfive_: you want to set you branch HEAD to some previous commit? Easy, just "git reset commit"
Apr 08 08:01:49 <budfive_> PaulFertser: yay. yay. that's what i wanted
Apr 08 08:02:06 <budfive_> PaulFertser: thank you. i KNEW there was a way to do it
Apr 08 08:02:34 <PaulFertser> git is the most intuitive DVCS out there ;)
Apr 08 08:06:39 <PaulFertser> lindi-: btw, all you need to connect UART to RS232 of your desktop is a simple one-transistor inverter most probably. PC's RS232 usually consider 0V to be the same as -10V.
Apr 08 08:07:40 <lindi-> PaulFertser: but i don't have my pc when i move around :)
Apr 08 08:08:46 <PaulFertser> lindi-: Wow, why not feed calypso UART to the console port on the freerunner itself? no more than one wire is needed.
Apr 08 08:09:16 <lindi-> PaulFertser: won't work in suspend :(
Apr 08 08:09:38 <lindi-> PaulFertser: could i equally easily get GPS data from the headphone connector?
Apr 08 08:10:02 <PaulFertser> lindi-: gps? no way, only if you solder to testpoints.
Apr 08 08:10:31 <lindi-> ok
Apr 08 08:10:47 <lindi-> PaulFertser: it'd just be useful to save power to log to the AVR instead of the main cpu
Apr 08 08:11:05 <lindi-> so had to ask :)
Apr 08 08:11:48 <alphaone> lindi-: There's another way
Apr 08 08:11:51 <PaulFertser> lindi-: why not to leave gps powered and wake up SoC once a minute automatically?
Apr 08 08:12:09 <lindi-> PaulFertser: then i'd only get data points once per minute?
Apr 08 08:12:20 <PaulFertser> lindi-: sometimes it's enough...
Apr 08 08:12:22 <lindi-> that's not quite enough for openstreetmap traces
Apr 08 08:12:25 <alphaone> There are ways to load a custom program onto the GPS chip and have it run.
Apr 08 08:12:40 <lindi-> alphaone: i was told it was not field-upgradeable
Apr 08 08:12:54 <alphaone> lindi-: Who told you that?
Apr 08 08:13:09 <alphaone> lindi-: It's not really a firmware upgrade
Apr 08 08:13:17 <lindi-> alphaone: oh?
Apr 08 08:13:23 <alphaone> I'd have to check
Apr 08 08:14:03 <alphaone> Hmm, interesting. Maybe it requires external flash for that
Apr 08 08:14:09 <alphaone> Then we'd be out of luck
Apr 08 08:14:47 <Wonka> depending on how big the GPS's output buffer is, it would suffice to flush that buffer to file every some seconds or even minutes
Apr 08 08:14:57 * PaulFertser wonders if it's cool to be an old-school hacker, understand machine code, fluently read core dumps etc...
Apr 08 08:15:03 <lindi-> alphaone: ah sorry, i mixed it with wlan stuff
Apr 08 08:16:48 <alphaone> PaulFertser: Why shouldn't it?
Apr 08 08:17:45 <alphaone> Wonka: We don't have hw flow control set up on the GPS serial port afaik
Apr 08 08:18:06 <Wonka> mh.
Apr 08 08:18:31 <Wonka> alphaone: software would be good enough for that
Apr 08 08:18:52 <TAsn> ok
Apr 08 08:19:02 <TAsn> it looks like my build environment in sane.
Apr 08 08:20:44 <alphaone> "The serial ports consist of a RX- and a TX line. No handshaking- or hardware flow control signals are available.
Apr 08 08:20:46 <alphaone> "
Apr 08 08:21:34 <Wonka> should've been connected via usb, the gps...
Apr 08 08:22:16 <alphaone> The other *flow stuff in the manual all address reflow soldering.
Apr 08 08:22:42 <alphaone> I don't think it supports software flow control
Apr 08 08:22:58 <alphaone> Wonka: What effect would that have?
Apr 08 08:23:10 <alphaone> Except drawing more power?
Apr 08 08:23:17 <CIA-47> SHR: 03Sebastian 07shr-overlay * r01d401721ede 10/openembedded/packages/ (2 files in 2 dirs): rename vala-settings to shr-config
Apr 08 08:23:22 <CIA-47> SHR: 03Sebastian 07shr-overlay * r15612e2786ff 10/openembedded/packages/tasks/task-shr-feed.bb: vala-settings->shr-config in feed build
Apr 08 08:23:23 <Wonka> alphaone: no issues with hw flow control
Apr 08 08:23:37 <Wonka> alphaone: host just polls later when sleeping
Apr 08 08:24:05 <Wonka> alphaone: and i don't think it would really be more power - the usb interface is there anyway, on the gps
Apr 08 08:25:11 <alphaone> Well, when the main CPU gets suspended between polling USB should be problematic
Apr 08 08:25:54 <Wonka> could be a nice experiment
Apr 08 08:26:14 <Wonka> i _think_ it should be possible for the host to have a nap between polling usb
Apr 08 08:26:27 <lindi-> Wonka: the gps has usb interface?
Apr 08 08:26:37 <simarillion_> Hi, is there any possibility to switch the Freerunner to Host mode in the latest SHR unstable? file usb_mode doesn't exist.
Apr 08 08:26:59 <lindi-> simarillion_: find /sys -name "usb_mode"?
Apr 08 08:27:20 <Wonka> lindi-: i think so... at least the u-blox 5 has
Apr 08 08:27:39 <lindi-> Wonka: that's more than just a usb-to-serial converter?
Apr 08 08:27:59 <simarillion_> no result !
Apr 08 08:30:13 <Wonka> lindi-: http://www.u-blox.com/products/atr0635.html
Apr 08 08:31:06 <Wonka> lindi-: the docs sound like it's not just a usb-serial-adapter
Apr 08 08:32:20 <CIA-47> SHR: 03Sebastian 07shr-overlay * re6abc3abc7b8 10/openembedded/conf/distro/include/shr-autorev-unstable.inc: autorev shr-config
Apr 08 08:32:21 <lindi-> Wonka: two UART ports sounds odd too
Apr 08 08:32:50 <alphaone> yeah, it has two serial ports and usb
Apr 08 08:33:02 <lindi-> alphaone: but only one is connected in freerunner?
Apr 08 08:33:07 <alphaone> yes
Apr 08 08:33:16 <alphaone> wouldn't make sense otherwise :-)
Apr 08 08:33:18 <lindi-> would be cool to be able to get one of those connected to my AVR
Apr 08 08:33:30 <lindi-> since it could log for hours and hours
Apr 08 08:33:46 <alphaone> lindi-: I don't think they are routed outside of the shielding case
Apr 08 08:34:03 <Wonka> lindi-: block diagram shows an usb part completely independent from the two uarts
Apr 08 08:34:18 <lindi-> Wonka: rright
Apr 08 08:34:19 <alphaone> lindi-: Better just get an usb battery pack
Apr 08 08:34:27 <simarillion__> Does USB Host mode in SHR unstable work at soembody?
Apr 08 08:34:45 <lindi-> alphaone: i have usb battery pack, and second one is on its way :)
Apr 08 08:34:50 <alphaone> hehe
Apr 08 08:34:59 <lindi-> now only $13.83! ;)
Apr 08 08:35:55 <lindi-> simarillion_: modprobe ohci-hcd?
Apr 08 08:45:03 <simarillion__> lindi: still no result. Someone on the mailing list said it's due to a kernel patch from 9 March. And I wonder if there is workaround yet?
Apr 08 08:47:22 <PaulFertser> simarillion__: ok, wait a minute
Apr 08 08:48:22 <TAsn> have anyone experienced not working gps?
Apr 08 08:48:25 <TAsn> my gps suddenly died
Apr 08 08:48:31 <TAsn> does not work anymore.
Apr 08 08:48:48 <lindi-> TAsn: are you moving faster than 600 km/h? ;)
Apr 08 08:49:02 <TAsn> speed is relative
Apr 08 08:49:10 <lindi-> TAsn: relative to the gps system
Apr 08 08:49:20 <TAsn> nope.
Apr 08 08:50:21 <PaulFertser> simarillion__: doesn't /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode work for you?
Apr 08 08:50:50 <PaulFertser> simarillion__: hm, work for powering but not to switch to host, sorry
Apr 08 08:51:05 <simarillion__> that's the problem
Apr 08 08:51:55 <PaulFertser> simarillion__: let me dig this one
Apr 08 08:52:37 <simarillion__>  
Apr 08 08:52:37 <simarillion__> http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=b55b8e
Apr 08 08:52:55 <simarillion__> that's the patch the person on the mailing list mentioned
Apr 08 08:53:51 <TAsn> lindi-, no idea then?
Apr 08 08:53:53 <PaulFertser> simarillion__: usb mode capability was disabled by 70b36104ab8c03f5be6d03344214d09447d9d4a8 . Someone need to reenable it and check what is needed to make it work. Probably we can ask Balaji, should be easy for him.
Apr 08 08:54:01 <lindi-> TAsn: nope
Apr 08 08:56:55 <raster> wtf?
Apr 08 08:56:57 <simarillion__> PaulFertser__: Should I write him a mail I don't know him yet?
Apr 08 08:57:32 <PaulFertser> simarillion__: i guess i'll do it now, ccing -kernel. Thanks for reporting, stay tuned.
Apr 08 08:57:35 <raster> ooooh
Apr 08 08:57:39 <raster> fuck me dead
Apr 08 08:58:08 <simarillion__> PaulFertser__: Thank U very much
Apr 08 08:58:18 <raster> this vala thing is fucked
Apr 08 08:58:53 <TAsn> raster, I got mine working!~
Apr 08 08:59:04 <TAsn> I was missing the shr-autorev.inc file (wtf?! how?!)
Apr 08 08:59:34 <raster> vala is totally fucked
Apr 08 08:59:43 <spaetz> raster: vala per se?
Apr 08 08:59:46 <raster> yes
Apr 08 08:59:50 <spaetz> hehe
Apr 08 09:00:06 * spaetz likes what he has seen so far
Apr 08 09:00:11 <raster> cant build gobject stuff because valac doesnt exist (compiler nto built yet)
Apr 08 09:00:14 <raster> and valac cant build..
Apr 08 09:00:23 <raster> because gobject stuff isnt built
Apr 08 09:00:26 <raster> GAAAAH!
Apr 08 09:00:32 <raster> fuckers
Apr 08 09:00:42 <spaetz> releae tarballs contain .c sources
Apr 08 09:00:54 <spaetz> which compiled just fine for me
Apr 08 09:01:45 <raster> the .c seems to be there
Apr 08 09:01:50 <raster> but oe is not trying to build the .c
Apr 08 09:02:14 <spaetz> mmh, nytowl said that the OE vala recipe was not working
Apr 08 09:02:24 <spaetz> the one in SHR-overlay works just fine though
Apr 08 09:02:54 <spaetz> at least the non-git version. have not checked the git one
Apr 08 09:03:18 <raster> well mikcey git-pushed to oe.dev yesterday
Apr 08 09:03:22 <raster> and it broke oe.dev
Apr 08 09:03:30 <raster> vala wont build
Apr 08 09:03:36 <raster> | make[2]: valac: Command not found
Apr 08 09:03:42 <raster> | make[2]: *** [gobject.vala.stamp] Error 127
Apr 08 09:03:42 <raster> | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/raster/oe/tmp.angstrom.palmt650/work/i686-linux/vala-bootstrap-native-0.6.0-r2/vala-0.6.0/gobject'
Apr 08 09:08:16 <raster> aaaaah
Apr 08 09:08:41 <raster> gobject.vala.stamp seems not to be having the desired effect
Apr 08 09:08:47 <raster> its not trying to build the c
Apr 08 09:08:50 <raster> tryign to build the vala
Apr 08 09:09:12 <spaetz>    7 # work around timestamp problem in tarball
Apr 08 09:09:12 <spaetz>    8 do_compile_prepend() {
Apr 08 09:09:12 <spaetz>    9         touch gobject/gobject.vala.stamp
Apr 08 09:09:13 <spaetz>   10 }
Apr 08 09:09:38 <spaetz> this is in the SHR recipe for vala-native-0.6
Apr 08 09:09:42 <raster> in vala.inc
Apr 08 09:12:22 <raster> spaetz:  thnx muchly!
Apr 08 09:12:26 <spaetz> np
Apr 08 09:12:41 <raster> now it'd be nice if commits to oe dev... got tested. :(
Apr 08 09:13:04 <spaetz> I don't have access, ask mickey :)
Apr 08 09:13:11 <raster> i have access
Apr 08 09:13:16 <spaetz> ahh, k
Apr 08 09:13:17 <raster> i'm going to just fix a mountain of stucc
Apr 08 09:13:19 <raster> stuff
Apr 08 09:13:43 <raster> i've been holding back lots of commits from the main dev branch because i;'ve been told not to step on anything without cooordinating.
Apr 08 09:13:54 <raster> but i think it simply needs attention.
Apr 08 09:15:04 * spaetz nods
Apr 08 09:17:50 <TAsn> raster, how can I find out the signal that was sent to libevas before it crashed enlightenment?
Apr 08 09:18:58 <raster> signal sent to libevas?
Apr 08 09:19:11 <raster> when e's white box of death is up
Apr 08 09:19:12 <raster> gdb attach
Apr 08 09:19:15 <raster> (from a console)
Apr 08 09:19:20 <raster> gdb enlightenment 3542
Apr 08 09:19:24 <raster> (what4ever the pid of e is)
Apr 08 09:19:25 <TAsn> whitebox isn't up
Apr 08 09:19:25 <raster> and bingo
Apr 08 09:19:28 <TAsn> it just dies.
Apr 08 09:19:32 <raster> u should be able to get a backtrace
Apr 08 09:19:37 <raster> just dies?
Apr 08 09:19:38 <raster> that is bad
Apr 08 09:19:39 <TAsn> yeah.
Apr 08 09:19:42 <TAsn> I know.
Apr 08 09:19:45 <raster> gdb attach before u make e die
Apr 08 09:19:47 <raster> and see
Apr 08 09:19:49 <TAsn> I can't
Apr 08 09:19:53 <raster> e just dying is really bad
Apr 08 09:19:55 <TAsn> it dies when launched
Apr 08 09:19:57 <raster> it means its segv catcher didnt work
Apr 08 09:20:04 <TAsn> well... ;]
Apr 08 09:20:04 <raster> run under gdb
Apr 08 09:20:14 <TAsn> can't, it's crying about environment crap.
Apr 08 09:21:19 <raster> export E_START=1
Apr 08 09:21:22 <raster> that'll fool it
Apr 08 09:21:23 <raster> :)
Apr 08 09:22:07 <TAsn> haha. ;]
Apr 08 09:23:23 <raster> all u have to do is ask
Apr 08 09:23:24 <raster> :)
Apr 08 09:23:30 <raster> there's all sorts of cheats
Apr 08 09:23:40 <raster> i just dont document them otherwise users will. run around doingit
Apr 08 09:23:47 <raster> e_start is there for a reason
Apr 08 09:24:20 <raster> (to handle pre-launch checks like prefix, and optionally spawn a file-system precache in the background)
Apr 08 09:24:44 <raster> it also acts as a dbus connector
Apr 08 09:24:53 <PaulFertser> Does anyone know anything on Balaji's official status?
Apr 08 09:25:00 <raster> putting e under dbus-launch if e is not already under a dbus session launcher
Apr 08 09:25:29 <raster> PaulFertser: human i guess.
Apr 08 09:26:05 <TAsn> cool
Apr 08 09:26:10 <TAsn> I forgot to export a symbol.
Apr 08 09:26:11 <PaulFertser> raster: i'm mostly interested in his timezone and willingness to help with kernel issues ;)
Apr 08 09:26:32 <raster> TAsn: aaah
Apr 08 09:26:45 <raster> PaulFertser: ooh so not if he's human or a bot?
Apr 08 09:27:03 <PaulFertser> And if he's still employed by OM-the-company is of interest too (though it's not that important anymore).
Apr 08 09:30:22 <mirko-paroli> PaulFertser: balaji is from india, exact timezone I don't know
Apr 08 09:30:28 <PaulFertser> Ah, and whether he's still reading his @openmoko.org address.
Apr 08 09:30:30 <mirko-paroli> but he is busy with studies right now
Apr 08 09:30:42 <mirko-paroli> he shoud still be reading that address
Apr 08 09:30:47 <mirko-paroli> should
Apr 08 09:30:52 <mirko-paroli> as in, I think he is
Apr 08 09:31:27 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: thanks a lot for the info, i guess he'll find some hour to help to fix that usbmode regression (can't switch to hostmode in the latest kernel) :)
Apr 08 09:31:53 <mirko-paroli> PaulFertser: it's worth a try :)
Apr 08 09:32:23 <PaulFertser> Especially given he's the one who introduced it ;)
Apr 08 09:32:25 <spaetz> raster: now that you start playing with vala, I'd be happy to get e-dbus supported in vala ;-p
Apr 08 09:32:51 <raster> dude...
Apr 08 09:32:57 <spaetz> ok ok
Apr 08 09:33:03 <spaetz> just kidding
Apr 08 09:33:05 <spaetz> :)
Apr 08 09:33:05 <raster> making the fucker just not kill my oe build is all i want to play with vala...
Apr 08 09:33:09 <raster> :)
Apr 08 09:33:33 <spaetz> well, actually, some e-dbus support *would* be nice
Apr 08 09:33:40 <spaetz> but I gues I'm on my own here
Apr 08 09:33:44 <spaetz> guess
Apr 08 09:37:31 <ptitjes> hello
Apr 08 09:37:42 <ptitjes> spaetz: much thanks for the revert :)
Apr 08 09:38:04 <ptitjes> spaetz: what are the differences between e-dbus and standard dbus ?
Apr 08 09:51:31 <TAsn> raster, please, remind me again, how do I use unicode values in keyboard?
Apr 08 09:52:13 <raster> need to be utf strings in quotes
Apr 08 09:52:20 <raster> u cant do 0xe008
Apr 08 09:52:23 <raster> or such
Apr 08 09:52:35 <raster> need to use "さ"
Apr 08 09:52:38 <raster> for example
Apr 08 09:53:48 <TAsn> ok.
Apr 08 09:53:49 <TAsn> thanks.
Apr 08 09:54:03 <morphis> heyho
Apr 08 09:56:57 <morphis> Ainulindale: ping
Apr 08 10:03:01 <Ainulindale> pong
Apr 08 10:03:44 <raster> GAAAH
Apr 08 10:03:47 <raster> more vala breaks!
Apr 08 10:03:49 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser?
Apr 08 10:04:45 <TAsn> raster, who's responsible for writing the the blinking cursos in input areas?
Apr 08 10:05:01 <raster> TAsn: "writing"
Apr 08 10:05:05 <Ainulindale> morphis: pong
Apr 08 10:05:08 <raster> its in the theme
Apr 08 10:05:12 <raster> and whihc input areas?
Apr 08 10:05:15 <raster> in elementary?
Apr 08 10:06:51 <TAsn> I mean the position
Apr 08 10:07:06 <TAsn> i.e when I write I get a blinking char that indicates the next position to write to
Apr 08 10:07:12 <raster> yes
Apr 08 10:07:13 <TAsn> now it's wrong when using hebrew
Apr 08 10:07:17 <TAsn> (rtl...)
Apr 08 10:07:20 <raster> oooh
Apr 08 10:07:23 <raster> edje does that
Apr 08 10:07:27 <raster> edje_entry.c
Apr 08 10:07:31 <TAsn> cool ;]
Apr 08 10:07:33 <TAsn> thanks.
Apr 08 10:07:42 <raster> it places an edje object over the char that the corsor is over
Apr 08 10:07:46 <morphis> Ainulindale: you tried again to build the shr-eten-image?
Apr 08 10:07:52 <raster> (whatever geometry that is that evas says it is)
Apr 08 10:07:56 <Ainulindale> it built morphis 
Apr 08 10:07:59 <Ainulindale> it's online
Apr 08 10:08:00 <morphis> yeah!
Apr 08 10:08:01 <TAsn> raster, oh,
Apr 08 10:08:08 <Ainulindale> Can't ensure you it's working though
Apr 08 10:08:09 <TAsn> so evas says where's the next char position?
Apr 08 10:08:19 <TAsn> so I should do it in evas
Apr 08 10:08:25 <TAsn> (change the position...)
Apr 08 10:08:26 <raster> does it dsiplay right when u click on a char to set the cursor there?
Apr 08 10:08:52 <TAsn> now, because it's set according to the logical order
Apr 08 10:08:53 <morphis> Ainulindale: I have a rev update for the kernel, should I build it on my own or you want it to do?
Apr 08 10:08:57 <TAsn> and not the visual.
Apr 08 10:09:14 <Ainulindale> morphis: do it, as long as you don't break stuff =)
Apr 08 10:09:40 <morphis> ok
Apr 08 10:10:04 <raster> TAsn: it gets the geometry from textblock
Apr 08 10:10:22 <raster>    evas_textblock_cursor_char_geometry_get(en->cursor, &xx, &yy, &ww, &hh);
Apr 08 10:10:28 <TAsn> i c.
Apr 08 10:10:30 <raster> en->cursor is the textblock cursor.. for the.. cursor
Apr 08 10:10:45 <raster> and it just moves/resises that obj to be where the cursor geometry points
Apr 08 10:11:00 <TAsn> I need to change the x values manually
Apr 08 10:11:02 <raster> (if u ewant anunderbar image - edje just does that or a vertical bar - edje again does that etc.)
Apr 08 10:11:14 <TAsn> actually, the y as well.
Apr 08 10:11:27 <TAsn> I don't care about the look
Apr 08 10:11:28 <raster> the cursor logically shoudl point to the next char after the end of the string
Apr 08 10:11:30 <raster> if its at the very end
Apr 08 10:11:33 <TAsn> just the position.
Apr 08 10:11:35 <raster> or to a specific char
Apr 08 10:11:52 <TAsn> ok, but when the last char entered is actually at the begining of the string
Apr 08 10:11:55 <TAsn> things get hard ;]
Apr 08 10:12:18 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: today Nelson made a commit that brings back bluetooth. Do you by any chance want to trigger kernel build for unstable?
Apr 08 10:12:23 <PaulFertser> morphis: hey :)
Apr 08 10:12:42 <morphis> PaulFertser: hey
Apr 08 10:12:57 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: I will
Apr 08 10:12:57 <PaulFertser> morphis: i talked to Nelson yesterday evening (he is in TPE, btw). He advices you to post an e-mail.
Apr 08 10:13:12 <morphis> PaulFertser: jepp, I am on the way for it
Apr 08 10:13:22 <PaulFertser> morphis: or catch him at a more appropriate time (evening for us).
Apr 08 10:13:34 <PaulFertser> morphis: how is it going in general?
Apr 08 10:13:36 <morphis> PaulFertser: yesterday I found a little workaroung 
Apr 08 10:13:59 <morphis> PaulFertser: the bug must be in the new touchscreen group filter 
Apr 08 10:14:25 <Ainulindale> morphis: answer to me! =)
Apr 08 10:14:28 <morphis> disabling all filters causes the bug and only disable the group and let all others stay fix it :)
Apr 08 10:14:49 <raster> TAsn:  yup. :)
Apr 08 10:15:10 <morphis> Ainulindale: sorry :) it is not easy to be on three different places at one time :)
Apr 08 10:16:04 <TAsn> btw, is there a way in bitbake
Apr 08 10:16:14 <TAsn> to tell it only to update the sources and make what's needed
Apr 08 10:16:25 <TAsn> not to rebuild what's already built? (objects)
Apr 08 10:16:58 <Ainulindale> TAsn: yes
Apr 08 10:17:05 <Ainulindale> that's what it does as a default
Apr 08 10:17:06 <TAsn> Ainulindale, how?
Apr 08 10:17:23 <TAsn> but the sources don't change
Apr 08 10:17:28 <TAsn> since it doesn't fetch
Apr 08 10:17:47 <TAsn> it skipping fetching.
Apr 08 10:17:52 <Ainulindale> well it won't fetch if the revision, PR, or PV didn't change
Apr 08 10:18:03 <Ainulindale> and if the sources are already there
Apr 08 10:19:46 <TAsn> exactly
Apr 08 10:19:54 <TAsn> and the sources are there
Apr 08 10:20:03 <TAsn> I just want to change a minor thing in the source
Apr 08 10:20:06 <TAsn> and then recompile
Apr 08 10:20:15 <TAsn> (I don't have ccache, had issues with it...)
Apr 08 10:20:57 <Ainulindale> Ah then you just want to change part of the sources ?
Apr 08 10:21:13 <Ainulindale> And avoid rebuilding what's already been built in a packagee?
Apr 08 10:22:14 <TAsn> yeah.
Apr 08 10:23:21 <max_posedon> Ainulindale, Hi! http://maxposedon.org/ru.po
Apr 08 10:23:26 <max_posedon> (remind you)
Apr 08 10:23:46 <Ainulindale> Well the only way is to bitbake -b yourfile -c devshell
Apr 08 10:23:52 <Ainulindale> First you build it (-c build)
Apr 08 10:23:55 <Ainulindale> then you devshell in it
Apr 08 10:23:58 <Ainulindale> make your changes
Apr 08 10:24:05 <Ainulindale> rebuild it using the typical tools (make ?)
Apr 08 10:24:09 <Ainulindale> inside the devshell
Apr 08 10:24:12 <Ainulindale> and it'll rebuild
Apr 08 10:24:20 <Ainulindale> max_posedon: Damn I thought I was able to get rid of you :-)
Apr 08 10:24:59 <TAsn> cool.
Apr 08 10:24:59 <max_posedon> ha, you didn't did it in 1812, and you can't now)
Apr 08 10:25:00 <TAsn> thanks.
Apr 08 10:25:12 <Ainulindale> max_posedon: pffff! :-)
Apr 08 10:25:23 <Ainulindale> I'm not a french emperor
Apr 08 10:25:28 <Ainulindale> Although I'm mighty
Apr 08 10:31:00 <agg1n> is someone working on a missing calls/msgs notification on the home screen? or are there any plans?
Apr 08 10:32:10 <spaetz> ptitjes: standard dbus requires a glib mainloop
Apr 08 10:32:13 * bumbl throws in the war of 1812
Apr 08 10:32:26 <spaetz> edbus uses the e loop as mainloop
Apr 08 10:32:28 <Ainulindale> Ok, now, this ru.po thing
Apr 08 10:32:33 <bumbl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4
Apr 08 10:32:38 <Ainulindale> spaetz: you're wrong
Apr 08 10:32:47 <Ainulindale> spaetz: dbus-glib requires a glib mainloop
Apr 08 10:32:52 <Ainulindale> not standard dbus
Apr 08 10:33:10 <ptitjes> standard dbus can use whatever loop
Apr 08 10:34:02 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: do you work today?
Apr 08 10:34:22 <ptitjes> spaetz: anyway, we will have the dbus loop and the e loop in || threads
Apr 08 10:34:52 <ptitjes> spaetz: also vala static client does not use glib-dbus anymore but raw dbus
Apr 08 10:34:54 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: actually that's how is working lfp-efl
Apr 08 10:35:01 <spaetz> ptitjes: for simple apps, it might be sufficient to only have one loop
Apr 08 10:35:08 <spaetz> for example to catch dbus signals
Apr 08 10:35:24 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: no, install party continues today
Apr 08 10:35:28 <spaetz> I agree that larger apps will need both loops in threads
Apr 08 10:35:43 <spaetz> commuting now, bll
Apr 08 10:35:45 <spaetz> bbl
Apr 08 10:35:49 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I was wondering if you were willing to come at my place
Apr 08 10:35:54 <Ainulindale> As I'm at home
Apr 08 10:36:02 <Ainulindale> (over a borrowed wifi access)
Apr 08 10:36:44 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I am at my parent's home until tomorow morning
Apr 08 10:36:55 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: but that is kind, thank you
Apr 08 10:37:30 <Ainulindale> That's for your agenda you know =)
Apr 08 10:37:46 <Ainulindale> max_posedon: Credits are going for? Nick? Name?
Apr 08 10:38:24 <max_posedon> let it be, Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau
Apr 08 10:38:35 <Ainulindale> I could write it in cyrillic if you want to :-)
Apr 08 10:38:39 <max_posedon> no!
Apr 08 10:38:43 <Ainulindale> (I have a cyrillic keyboard installed, for my girlfriend)
Apr 08 10:39:37 <Ainulindale> morphis: please tell me when the new kernel will be compiled I need access :-)
Apr 08 10:40:27 <morphis> k
Apr 08 10:40:44 <morphis> Ainulindale: there some errors
Apr 08 10:40:53 <Ainulindale> You're using a screen?
Apr 08 10:40:56 <morphis> about vala-settings
Apr 08 10:40:58 <morphis> jepp
Apr 08 10:41:05 <morphis> session linux-eten
Apr 08 10:41:44 <morphis> maybe the overlay is too old because spaetz updated the url for vala-settings and renamed it
Apr 08 10:42:06 <morphis> :)
Apr 08 10:43:34 <CIA-47> SHR: 03morphis 07shr-overlay * r59723a0bada0 10/openembedded/conf/distro/include/shr-autorev-unstable.inc: Add new revision for the linux-eten kernel
Apr 08 11:00:19 <TAsn> hmm.. for some reason gdb isn't loading the evas symbols.
Apr 08 11:06:32 <TAsn> bah. ;\
Apr 08 11:10:42 <PaulFertser> Hm, why are accelerometers are called like that? They don't measure acceleration, do they? :)
Apr 08 11:13:58 <TAsn> they do, I think.
Apr 08 11:19:39 <Weiss> acceleration due to gravity, and all that
Apr 08 11:21:42 <PaulFertser> Weiss: acceleration of which object?
Apr 08 11:22:39 <PaulFertser> TAsn: a=\frac{d^2x}{dt^2} , so to have a non-zero a, x should be constantly changing.
Apr 08 11:22:59 <TAsn> dx^2?
Apr 08 11:23:07 <PaulFertser> TAsn: the second derivative
Apr 08 11:23:15 <TAsn> oh.
Apr 08 11:23:26 <TAsn> no idea.
Apr 08 11:24:12 <PaulFertser> TAsn: do you agree that our "accelerometer" shows non-zero value at least on one of the axis, even if the sensor itself is not moving anywhere?
Apr 08 11:25:01 <TAsn> I have no idea what are the units the acclerometer uses, to me it looked like a custom representations, because the value were WAY off ;]
Apr 08 11:25:14 <TAsn> and yes, of course.
Apr 08 11:25:29 <Weiss> zero acceleration would be you in space, what you experience on earth is as if you were in a lift accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s/s
Apr 08 11:25:38 <PaulFertser> TAsn: quite the opposite, imagine the sensor itself is free-falling. I'm sure it'll show 0.
Apr 08 11:25:55 <TAsn> I'm just saying it looks broken to me ;]
Apr 08 11:26:34 <PaulFertser> Weiss: in fact, it's impossible to measure acceleration of the sensor itself inside the sensor, obviously, do you agree?
Apr 08 11:27:14 <PaulFertser> Weiss: so, no accelerometer can be supposed to show acceleration of itself. Then what is it supposed to show?
Apr 08 11:27:46 <Weiss> well.. to put it another way, it measures a force exerted on some sensory bits which are a result of gravity
Apr 08 11:28:29 <Weiss> as per relativity theory, you can't tell the difference between gravity and an accelerating frame of reference because all that exists is this "force"
Apr 08 11:30:30 <Ainulindale> morphis: tell me when the patch is ok
Apr 08 11:30:46 <morphis> Ainulindale: I will
Apr 08 11:30:51 <Ainulindale> morphis: the advantage is
Apr 08 11:30:53 <Ainulindale> you do the patch
Apr 08 11:30:57 <Ainulindale> then we can commit it to the branch
Apr 08 11:31:05 <Ainulindale> so all in all it's not thrown away
Apr 08 11:32:25 <PaulFertser> Weiss: exactly my point. So accelerometer shows force (in some units), not acceleration.
Apr 08 11:34:35 <Weiss> PaulFertser: but, because of the construction of the device, the only way you can cause it to detect a "force" is by subjecting it to an acceleration
Apr 08 11:34:48 <Weiss> PaulFertser: just as a thermocouple type thermometer "actually measures voltage"
Apr 08 11:39:18 <Weiss> because it's isolated in this way, all other forces are removed and all you have left is acceleration
Apr 08 11:39:22 <PaulFertser> Weiss: but you don't use accelerometer  in a way thermistor is used. You use accelerometer in the presence of gravitational force and can orient your sensor in any axis.
Apr 08 11:39:37 <Weiss> so?
Apr 08 11:40:05 <PaulFertser> Weiss: so calling its output "acceleration" is mostly wrong, because gravitational force messes it up.
Apr 08 11:40:39 <Weiss> but the gravitational force is entirely equivalent to an acceleration
Apr 08 11:41:28 <PaulFertser> Weiss: force can't be equivalent to acceleration. Acceleration is x'', something must be moving for it to be non-zero.
Apr 08 11:44:05 <Weiss> imagine you're in deep space, and inside your space station you're in an elevator accelerating upwards at 9.8 m/s/s. you'd feel exactly what you're feeling holding you to the ground right now
Apr 08 11:44:15 <Weiss> that's the Einstein equivalence principle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_general_relativity
Apr 08 11:44:39 <PaulFertser> Weiss: sure.
Apr 08 11:45:01 <PaulFertser> Weiss: and my sensor will show the same.
Apr 08 11:45:21 <PaulFertser> Weiss: but i'm not moving anywhere now, still my sensor shows it. :)
Apr 08 11:47:32 <Weiss> but the fact that you can't tell the difference (by *any* method) is due to the fundamental physics, not to some deficiency of the device :)
Apr 08 11:47:33 <dvarnes> PaulFertser: acceleration is not to do with movement, only force
Apr 08 11:47:45 <PaulFertser> dvarnes: hahaha, define acceleration :)
Apr 08 11:48:12 <PaulFertser> In physics, and more specifically kinematics, acceleration is the change in velocity over time.
Apr 08 11:49:21 <PaulFertser> Or speaking more formally, \frac{d^2 x}{dt^2}
Apr 08 11:49:25 <dvarnes> PaulFertser:  ja,  ... and reduces to F = ma   in the simple case 
Apr 08 11:49:41 <dvarnes> PaulFertser: of constant a
Apr 08 11:49:45 <PaulFertser> dvarnes: i can't be reduced like that.
Apr 08 11:50:11 <dvarnes> we look at small changes of the 'nearly' constant a
Apr 08 11:52:08 <PaulFertser> dvarnes: no, we don't. We talk about acceleration, it the second derivative of coordinate, it's a vector in general case btw.
Apr 08 11:52:32 <CIA-47> SHR: 03morphis 07shr-overlay * rd748bbba1f22 10/patches/linux-eten/0001-Add-new-defconfig-for-linux-eten.patch: Add new defconfig for linux-eten
Apr 08 11:52:45 <PaulFertser> dvarnes: so, to talk about acceleration we first must define a coordinate system.
Apr 08 11:53:46 <Weiss> PaulFertser: i think that's where my explanation and yours diverge
Apr 08 11:54:14 <Weiss> if you follow the argument you're having right now, you'll derive the whole of general relativity
Apr 08 11:54:20 <PaulFertser> Weiss: i think calling the output of "accelerometers" acceleration is impractical due to the presence of gravitation.
Apr 08 11:54:43 <PaulFertser> Weiss: no, i want to stay in Newton for now.
Apr 08 11:54:43 <Weiss> PaulFertser: .. and i'm saying you're right, but the distinction isn't helpful because of Physics
Apr 08 11:55:39 <Weiss> you may find you can't, if you want to have a consistent understanding. the beginnings of relativity are disturbingly basic..
Apr 08 11:56:35 <PaulFertser> Weiss: let's say our sensor measures acceleration. Then we have plenty of confusion: acceleration of which object etc? Let's say our sensor shows the amount of force to some weight inside it. Well, the second description is pretty clear and consistent.
Apr 08 11:57:36 <PaulFertser> Weiss: The first principle of relativity is present in Newton theory too (implicitly). But i don't want to talk about Lorence shrinking (?) etc.
Apr 08 11:57:40 <Weiss> that's true, if you want to stay Newtonian
Apr 08 11:58:30 <PaulFertser> Weiss: staying newtonian makes perfect sense unless we start to investigate really big velocities, so i see no problem with that.
Apr 08 11:58:44 <Weiss> that's fair
Apr 08 11:59:16 <Weiss> in my explanation, you have to "put up with" the gravity/acceleration equivalent. in your case, you have to "put up with" the accelerometer measuring "pseudo-forces" (centrifugal force, etc)
Apr 08 11:59:23 <Weiss> but they're *entirely* equivalent
Apr 08 12:01:00 <PaulFertser> Weiss: i'm outside the sensor, so for me thinking of forces affecting insides of the sensor is convenient and simple. Making gravity/acceleration equivalent is strange, indirect, and prone to errors, why do that?
Apr 08 12:01:36 <Weiss> there is no reason, if you prefer the former explanation
Apr 08 12:01:58 <PaulFertser> I want everyone to prefer that explanation ;)
Apr 08 12:02:16 <Weiss> i prefer the latter explanation :)
Apr 08 12:02:42 <Weiss> (but then, i am a physicist)
Apr 08 12:03:18 <PaulFertser> Weiss: so, why do you prefer the latter explanation?
Apr 08 12:04:05 <PaulFertser> Weiss: and btw, what pseudo-forces are you talking about? Coriolis force?
Apr 08 12:04:10 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: 9.81m/ss IS earth's acceleration. Acceleration is defined as any force applied to an object creating a tendency of the object to behave non-innert
Apr 08 12:05:01 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i don't agree. Acceleration is the second derivative of the coordinate, by definition.
Apr 08 12:05:23 <Weiss> because in your case i'd have to work out what force acts due to inertia on the insides of the accelerometer. in my case, i just look at how it moves and use my knowledge that i just have to take into account acceleration due to gravity as well
Apr 08 12:05:48 <PaulFertser> Weiss: the Coriolis force can be thought as "pseudo" only if we think about it inside the sensor. But we're outside, so it has a perfect newton explanation.
Apr 08 12:05:53 <Weiss> pseudo-forces meaning things like centrifugal force: it doesn't "exist" outside the rotating frame of reference, but it very much exists if you're the one doing the rotating
Apr 08 12:06:09 <DocScrutinizer> you don't have a coordinate for a solitary object in empty space. still there is acceleration possible
Apr 08 12:07:05 <Weiss> PaulFertser: outside the sensor, but still within the rotating frame of reference. me spinning on my office chair looking at the insides of the accelerometer with a microscope vs. my colleage watching me spinning
Apr 08 12:07:37 <DocScrutinizer> and the only "coordinate" is that of a reference object that doesn't see the force. that's exactly what g-meter does
Apr 08 12:08:57 <PaulFertser> Weiss: but for some tiny amount of time (while you're start to spin) the sensor will show you some Coriolis force, that you don't feel yourself. So you will wonder why it does that. If you talk about forces from the beginning, you'll have a perfect explanation.
Apr 08 12:09:35 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i don't think one cat talk about acceleration without defining reference frame, sorry.
Apr 08 12:10:58 <Weiss> PaulFertser: do you really mean the coriolis force, or the centrifugal force?
Apr 08 12:11:12 <DocScrutinizer> so what is it then that is pressing astronauts into their seats? the presence of some planet nearby where you can "anchor" your origin of coordinates?
Apr 08 12:11:32 <PaulFertser> Weiss: coriolis force. I assume that the weight inside the sensor will move somewhat along the radius.
Apr 08 12:12:31 <PaulFertser> Weiss: as to centrifugal force -- it's expected that you measure the presence of a centrifugal force being in a non-inertial reference frame, i  see nothing odd with it.
Apr 08 12:12:57 <PaulFertser> Weiss: the sensor inside your head will report it as well.
Apr 08 12:14:28 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: looking from Earth i'd say that while rocket is launching, it's seats that are pressing astronauts.
Apr 08 12:15:51 <DocScrutinizer> or isn't it rather the garbage jettisoned befor you fire the motor that is creating the coord's origin, no matter whether there is some earth nearby or anywhere in universe at all
Apr 08 12:16:56 <DocScrutinizer> i'm not talking about launching, I'm talking about firing the motor somewhere in empty space
Apr 08 12:17:06 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: you define reference frame however you like. But if you're inside the spaceship and can't "see" anything (the system is closed), you can't use any external object as a reference.
Apr 08 12:17:32 <Weiss> PaulFertser: yes, i think what you say is true. i would have considered that small coriolis force as an artifact of the measurement device - the smaller you make the device, the smaller it gets
Apr 08 12:17:42 <PaulFertser> Weiss: sure
Apr 08 12:17:54 <DocScrutinizer> so you don't need. use yyourself, or mass inside gmeter of your FR
Apr 08 12:18:31 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: then i don't move, then i'm not accelerated, by definition. The force keeping me in a seat is for some unknown reason.
Apr 08 12:18:49 * Weiss knows all about artifacts of biological measurement systems, due to having clinical vertigo (the inner ear problem, not the fear of heights one)
Apr 08 12:18:55 <DocScrutinizer> still it's acceleration that's pressing you into seat, and as well is sensed by gmeter
Apr 08 12:19:20 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: it can't be proven inside the system.
Apr 08 12:19:28 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Apr 08 12:19:32 <DocScrutinizer> it can
Apr 08 12:19:53 <DocScrutinizer> it's acceleration, not "unknown"
Apr 08 12:20:00 <PaulFertser> Oh, my office chair is pushing me up. Must be acceleration of jet engines...
Apr 08 12:21:02 <DocScrutinizer> nonsense something is pusching you down(!) and that is earth acceleration aka gravity
Apr 08 12:21:36 <PaulFertser> I don't feel anything pushing me down, i feel only chair is pushing me up.
Apr 08 12:21:40 <Weiss> i still think the discussion of "what's really causing this accelerating feeling" is unhelpful, unless someone here is going to reformulate general relativity :)
Apr 08 12:22:12 <billk> spaetz: ping
Apr 08 12:22:38 <DocScrutinizer> Weiss: exactly
Apr 08 12:22:54 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: btw, we can talk about File->Save menu in OpenOffice as well. It does quite the opposite: erases my file on disk, writes to it something else.
Apr 08 12:23:10 <bumbl> PaulFertser: without something pushing you down the chair can't push you up
Apr 08 12:23:46 <PaulFertser> bumbl: even if i'm in a deep space and my chair is equipped with engines?
Apr 08 12:23:49 <Weiss> PaulFertser: we could formula special and general theories of OpenOffice.org as well?
Apr 08 12:24:22 <Weiss> that sounds like more fun
Apr 08 12:24:28 <PaulFertser> Weiss: and then spend the rest of our lifes trying to get a great unified OO field theory too.
Apr 08 12:24:32 <bumbl> PaulFertser: newton's third law
Apr 08 12:24:51 <PaulFertser> bumbl: yeah, chair is pushing me, i'm pushing chair :)
Apr 08 12:25:19 <bumbl> and why are you pushing the chair? because of gravity
Apr 08 12:25:28 <PaulFertser> bumbl: who knows...
Apr 08 12:25:51 <bumbl> well it might be that earth is diffrent in russia ;)
Apr 08 12:26:09 <PaulFertser> bumbl: i mean if i couldn't see outside, i'd not know that.
Apr 08 12:27:06 <DocScrutinizer> that's ecactly the reason why it's called acceleration (aka gravity)
Apr 08 12:27:22 <DocScrutinizer> you can't tell the difference 
Apr 08 12:27:51 <PaulFertser> while "gravity" refers specifically to the net force exerted by the Earth on objects in its vicinity as well as by other factors, such as the Earth's rotation
Apr 08 12:28:48 <DocScrutinizer> huh, what has gravity to deal with rotation?
Apr 08 12:30:34 <Weiss> the acceleration due to gravity is smaller than it would otherwise be because the earth is rotating
Apr 08 12:30:43 <DocScrutinizer> except that both are creating acceleration
Apr 08 12:30:56 <Weiss> yes, in opposite directions
Apr 08 12:31:17 <Weiss> we're all being flung slightly upwards by the rotation
Apr 08 12:31:37 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
Apr 08 12:32:24 <Weiss> i was just supporting PaulFertser's comment that what we measure as 'g' depends on things other than "magical gravitational down-suckiness"
Apr 08 12:33:10 <lindi-> just declare that the phone can not be operated in the precense of strong gravitational fields ;)
Apr 08 12:33:31 <DocScrutinizer> nope, what we get as "g" is a vector addition of all different kinds of acceleration we are exposed to
Apr 08 12:33:36 <PaulFertser> lindi-: ROTFL, good advice
Apr 08 12:33:57 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i'm afraid you're mixing "acceleration" and "force" concepts.
Apr 08 12:34:18 <lindi-> PaulFertser: better make also storing in strong gravitational fields unsupported, easy way to get all customers void their warranty very soon
Apr 08 12:34:21 <DocScrutinizer> acceleration IS a force
Apr 08 12:34:34 <DocScrutinizer> devided by the mass
Apr 08 12:34:44 <bumbl> PaulFertser: F ~ a
Apr 08 12:35:05 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: bumbl: only in certain conditions, not by definition.
Apr 08 12:35:15 <DocScrutinizer> bah
Apr 08 12:35:47 <bumbl> PaulFertser: well in all conditions we as human beings are able to investigate
Apr 08 12:35:59 <bumbl> and that's the purpose of physics
Apr 08 12:36:02 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: and if you want to define acceleration via force, then how are you going to define force itself? ;)
Apr 08 12:36:30 <DocScrutinizer> wikipedia:SI units
Apr 08 12:37:16 <PaulFertser> bumbl: carousel, use it, attach a reference frame to it; a good example to study non-inertial frame references.
Apr 08 12:37:52 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: nope, units are bad substitute for definitions
Apr 08 12:38:19 <PaulFertser> bumbl: Can you tell me the 1st Newton law without looking anywhere ;)
Apr 08 12:38:28 <bumbl> yes
Apr 08 12:38:31 <bumbl> but i get 2 go now
Apr 08 12:38:39 <bumbl> my bus is leaving in 5min
Apr 08 12:38:58 * DocScrutinizer getting extremely bored by this sofisticism of the channel's discussion
Apr 08 12:41:54 <Weiss> looks like we're about to have the same discussion on om-community as well :)
Apr 08 12:42:00 * PaulFertser likes discussing school physics topics, but he agrees it should be somewhat offtopic here.
Apr 08 12:43:02 <Weiss> #openmoko-cphysics?
Apr 08 12:44:52 <PaulFertser> BTW, can anyone with an appropriate Y-cable try Michael's patch (to bring usb hostmode back)? I lack the cable.
Apr 08 12:44:52 <Weiss> r.e. the actual issue of whether the axis definitions on the wiki are backwards or not:
Apr 08 12:45:40 <PaulFertser> Weiss: to be honest, i haven't read the wiki page they talk about ;)
Apr 08 12:45:41 <lindi-> PaulFertser: why would that need y-cable?
Apr 08 12:45:46 <Weiss> the "gravitational force" is in the opposite direction to the acceleration rixed was talking about. accelerations in all directions would generate a "force" in the opposite direction
Apr 08 12:45:55 <PaulFertser> lindi-: any suitable cable, sorry
Apr 08 12:46:03 <Weiss> i think i agree with the OP based on what they say, but i haven't checked the numbers on my own device
Apr 08 12:47:34 <PaulFertser> Weiss: i wonder how can a force be in opposite direction to the acceleration... I was told several times today something like \vec{F} = m\vec{a}.
Apr 08 12:48:34 <PaulFertser> Weiss: it's reasonable to talk about force applied to the sensor. It's gravitational force, pointing to the center of Earth. So \vec{a} should point there too.
Apr 08 12:49:01 <Weiss> because, as you say, what the accelerometer is really measuring is the force on a tiny weight which is allowed to move relative to the rest of the Neo
Apr 08 12:49:28 <Weiss> i'm not talking about anything particularly deep here: just that if you put a little ball in a box and yank the box to the right, the ball will end up at the left of the box
Apr 08 12:50:19 <PaulFertser> Weiss: well, that's a good argument, indeed.
Apr 08 12:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> waaaaaaaah
Apr 08 12:54:21 <Dave> :o
Apr 08 12:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> I'm really happy FR has no electron microscope, otherwise we would see endless debates how to photogrph an electron with it
Apr 08 12:55:41 <PaulFertser> Hahaha
Apr 08 12:55:43 <Dave> -_-
Apr 08 12:55:46 <Weiss> :)
Apr 08 12:55:54 * Weiss does electron microscopy for his PhD
Apr 08 12:56:01 <Dave> :D
Apr 08 12:56:24 <Weiss> you never, ever, get bored of looking at things and thinking "that's REALLY ****ing small"
Apr 08 12:57:43 <PaulFertser> Weiss: the main confusion is because of mixing forces and accelerations; i began with that today.
Apr 08 12:58:14 <Weiss> true, i think
Apr 08 13:04:29 <dent> Ainulindale: got my key? I wonder what the next steps should be...
Apr 08 13:04:47 <Ainulindale> Yeah got your key
Apr 08 13:04:53 <Ainulindale> Next step is to add you to the overlay
Apr 08 13:06:16 <dent> the SHR OE overlay? so that I could add my recipes?
Apr 08 13:06:28 <Ainulindale> Done.
Apr 08 13:06:29 <Ainulindale> Yes
Apr 08 13:06:36 <Ainulindale> Next steps are
Apr 08 13:06:40 <dent> thx
Apr 08 13:06:53 <Ainulindale> git clone git+ssh://git@git.shr-project.org/shr-overlay.git
Apr 08 13:07:00 <Ainulindale> Do some stuff
Apr 08 13:07:02 <Ainulindale> git pull
Apr 08 13:07:04 <Ainulindale> git commit -a
Apr 08 13:07:06 <Ainulindale> git push
Apr 08 13:07:13 <Ainulindale> I insist on git pull before git commit
Apr 08 13:07:19 <Ainulindale> Please make me happy
Apr 08 13:08:02 <dent> hm... being a git newbie... why? is that bc if there are some changes in the repo menawhile... commit would merge them somehow, but they might be untested?
Apr 08 13:08:20 <dent> => stuff potentially breaks?
Apr 08 13:08:48 <Ainulindale> well if you commit then try to push while some changes were pushed
Apr 08 13:08:51 <Ainulindale> you'll have to merge them
Apr 08 13:08:58 <Ainulindale> and it'll generate two comments on git
Apr 08 13:09:01 <Ainulindale> and it bores me
Apr 08 13:09:18 <dent> aha, ok
Apr 08 13:11:04 <Dave> :P
Apr 08 13:11:17 <dent> :-P~
Apr 08 13:12:49 <Gnutoo> hi, I can't find the planet entry about compiling on the openmoko(would be faster...I've to debug something)
Apr 08 13:13:03 <Ainulindale> It wouldn't be that fast
Apr 08 13:13:13 <Ainulindale> I'd suggest, use bitbake + devshell, then nfs mounts
Apr 08 13:13:16 <Ainulindale> That is faster
Apr 08 13:13:16 <Gnutoo> it listed all packages that one should install in order to compile something
Apr 08 13:13:18 <dent> Gnutoo: toolchain + nfs work well for me
Apr 08 13:13:23 <dent> and gdb on the FR seems ok then
Apr 08 13:13:38 <Gnutoo> yes I know well oe but I'd like to compile a *very* small program
Apr 08 13:14:04 <Gnutoo> only a test program
Apr 08 13:14:14 <Gnutoo> I'll look at the devshell
Apr 08 13:14:22 <Ainulindale> devshell is bitbake -c devshell
Apr 08 13:14:41 <Gnutoo> ok thanks
Apr 08 13:14:42 <Ainulindale> sets the correct env to use the normal tools
Apr 08 13:14:45 <Ainulindale> (gcc, make, etc)
Apr 08 13:14:53 <Gnutoo> I've already oe setup
Apr 08 13:15:11 <Ainulindale> well devshell sets the correct path for you to use plain command
Apr 08 13:15:15 <Ainulindale> +s
Apr 08 13:15:19 <Gnutoo> ok thanks a lot
Apr 08 13:15:23 <Ainulindale> you're welcome
Apr 08 13:16:49 <TAsn> Ainulindale, opened a bug, concerning fribidi package, also added a bb.
Apr 08 13:17:01 <Ainulindale> well, why don't you commit it?
Apr 08 13:17:09 <Ainulindale> I thought you had access
Apr 08 13:17:14 <TAsn> oh, right
Apr 08 13:17:15 <TAsn> I do ;]
Apr 08 13:17:17 <TAsn> cool.
Apr 08 13:17:25 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: output of gmeter isn't "g" but rather the vector product of all forces applied to FR (as long as we don't include rotations of FR itself)
Apr 08 13:18:34 <TAsn> I finally found out what the bugs in my app were, A BAD FUCKING BUILD ENVIRONMENT!!!
Apr 08 13:18:35 <TAsn> ;]
Apr 08 13:18:45 <Dave> haha
Apr 08 13:18:49 <Dave> Nice going, tasn
Apr 08 13:18:49 <TAsn> Dave, not funny
Apr 08 13:18:52 <Ainulindale> s/CAPS/I suck/
Apr 08 13:18:56 <TAsn> I have wasted a lot of time on this shit.
Apr 08 13:19:04 <TAsn> Ainulindale, yeah.
Apr 08 13:19:06 <Dave> Yeah, I know
Apr 08 13:19:07 <Ainulindale> :-p
Apr 08 13:19:27 <TAsn> btw, what's the best way to generate a lot of needed packages (initial build) make image?
Apr 08 13:19:32 <TAsn> I don't want an image
Apr 08 13:19:40 <TAsn> just want all the stock moko packs built.
Apr 08 13:19:49 <Ainulindale> well just generate your package
Apr 08 13:19:53 <Ainulindale> it'll generate the dependencies
Apr 08 13:20:01 <TAsn> cool.
Apr 08 13:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: mechanical forces to case of FR that is
Apr 08 13:20:34 <TAsn> Ainulindale, for some reason I didn't have shr-autorev.inc
Apr 08 13:20:43 <Ainulindale> meh
Apr 08 13:21:47 <CIA-47> SHR: 03tom 07shr-overlay * rae0d092c0b9a 10/openembedded/packages/fribidi/fribidi_0.10.9.bb: added fribidi bb
Apr 08 13:22:34 <TAsn> ok Ainulindale 
Apr 08 13:22:39 <TAsn> just built a new OE
Apr 08 13:22:44 <TAsn> and still, no shr-autorev.
Apr 08 13:22:52 <Ainulindale> that's because it's not in OE
Apr 08 13:22:58 <Ainulindale> It's in the overlay
Apr 08 13:23:13 <TAsn> so bottom line, how do I get it.?
Apr 08 13:23:28 <Ainulindale> Well didn't you ever wonder why we had a makefile? :-)
Apr 08 13:23:41 <Ainulindale> Plus we don't use OE dev branch but FSO branch
Apr 08 13:24:30 <TAsn> bah, so how do I get it?
Apr 08 13:24:42 <Ainulindale> All is on the wiki
Apr 08 13:24:56 <Ainulindale> http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Building%20SHR
Apr 08 13:25:04 <AntonTakk> perhaps this isn't the right place to ask, but as i understand it, OM is still moving forward with the 2009.x software stack for the FreeRunner, or no?
Apr 08 13:25:20 <TAsn> I'm viewing this page atm
Apr 08 13:25:24 <TAsn> I should probabyl read harder.
Apr 08 13:25:27 <Ainulindale> heh :-)
Apr 08 13:25:44 <dent> Ainulindale: OM is moving? :)
Apr 08 13:25:46 <dent> :-P
Apr 08 13:26:38 <dent> ouch, I mean AntonTakk...
Apr 08 13:26:40 <dent> sorry
Apr 08 13:26:47 <AntonTakk> heh
Apr 08 13:26:54 * dent was TAB-happy
Apr 08 13:27:08 <AntonTakk> spasiming?
Apr 08 13:27:17 <AntonTakk> convulsing?
Apr 08 13:27:20 <dent> yeah
Apr 08 13:27:23 <dent> that :)
Apr 08 13:28:12 <AntonTakk> well, even if they have to stop and make a pda or some other reasonable non-phone device, i'd still be interested
Apr 08 13:28:57 <AntonTakk> (for the love of $deity, the world does not need yet another pmp)
Apr 08 13:29:11 <dent> undefined var :-P
Apr 08 13:30:27 <AntonTakk> heh
Apr 08 13:32:28 <dent> AntonTakk: maybe I missed some .inc files :)
Apr 08 13:35:30 <spaetz> billk: pong
Apr 08 13:43:39 <AntonTakk> anyone know if anyone has gotten xu4 to compile and run on the fr?
Apr 08 13:45:27 <Dave> Hey Anton :)
Apr 08 13:46:08 <AntonTakk> hey Dave 
Apr 08 13:46:32 <AntonTakk> seems i'm gonna have to finish my ui if I want to use the fr as a phone, huh?
Apr 08 13:46:51 <Dave> Seems only logical ;)
Apr 08 13:51:35 <TAsn> raster, ! compositing has landed!
Apr 08 13:52:43 <TAsn> raster, works beautifully.
Apr 08 13:52:55 * spaetz wonders whether investing time into the existing message/dialer apps is worthwhile or whether looking at a vala replacement makes more sense.
Apr 08 13:53:00 <spaetz> no that I have any time for it
Apr 08 13:53:12 <spaetz> not
Apr 08 13:56:07 <janf> hi, i need help, shr build fails for me with the following message: "ERROR: '/media/disk/shr-unstable/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko-2.6.28_git.bb' failed"
Apr 08 13:56:55 <janf> what can is do? :(
Apr 08 13:57:04 <janf> s/is/i
Apr 08 13:59:30 <Ainulindale> janf: You have a log
Apr 08 13:59:37 <Ainulindale> bitbake is telling you where it is
Apr 08 13:59:41 <Ainulindale> (normally)
Apr 08 14:00:02 <janf> yes, it tells me: "/media/disk/shr-unstable/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/bin/install-sh: ./-m0644 does not exist."
Apr 08 14:00:25 <Ainulindale> How did you try to build SHR?
Apr 08 14:00:30 <spaetz> I thought that f*** thing has been fixed long time ago?
Apr 08 14:00:32 <Ainulindale> Did you use the makefile ?
Apr 08 14:00:38 <janf> yes
Apr 08 14:00:42 <spaetz> AFAIK it's left in the -testing somewhere
Apr 08 14:00:46 <spaetz> but not -unstable
Apr 08 14:00:55 <Ainulindale> You should try to build unstable anyway
Apr 08 14:01:07 <spaetz> he does try to build unstable, it seems
Apr 08 14:01:18 <Ainulindale> Ah yes seemingly
Apr 08 14:01:21 <spaetz> mickey has fixed one instance of that long ago
Apr 08 14:01:24 <Ainulindale> Well I can't help then
Apr 08 14:01:29 <janf> hm
Apr 08 14:04:31 <janf> any other way how i could build unstable? :/
Apr 08 14:08:38 <billk> spaetz: hi, as I said in my email, the kernal install and a few other things are broke when you do a clean build (rm -rf everything and start again)
Apr 08 14:09:24 <spaetz> billk: must be, because I just build the kernel just fine
Apr 08 14:09:32 <Ainulindale> janf: well as is, apart from telling you to update...
Apr 08 14:10:04 <billk> yes, but do you rm -rf OE, bitbake, ccache, SHR etc before you build?
Apr 08 14:10:16 <billk> the file in question is
Apr 08 14:10:19 <billk> tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.28-2.6.28-oe1+gitr119778+9c4451ff31b937a478f3d3eabef30b71cbe12b12-r3.1/git/scripts/Makefile.fwinst
Apr 08 14:11:22 <spaetz> billk: heck no. On my laptop a rebuild takes about 2 days
Apr 08 14:11:37 <spaetz> don't use ccache
Apr 08 14:12:17 <billk> how to turn it off? - but ccache should affect this anyway (and I deleted the cache twice as well)
Apr 08 14:12:41 * spaetz shrugs
Apr 08 14:12:52 <spaetz> no idea. I know little about build proceses
Apr 08 14:13:11 <spaetz> 4 weeks ago, I didn't even know what OE is
Apr 08 14:13:31 <billk> What I did want get from you is what version of bluez4 are you building, because that still wont build for me (unstable)
Apr 08 14:14:44 <mwester> CCACHE = ""
Apr 08 14:14:57 <mwester> ^^^ Disables ccache; place that line in your local.conf
Apr 08 14:14:59 <billk> mwester: in what file?
Apr 08 14:15:15 <billk> ahh, too quick, sorry
Apr 08 14:15:47 <mwester> That won't fix the kernel build problem, though.  I really cannot imagine where that's coming from; that missing space in the -m problem was fixed a loooooooooooooooooong time ago!
Apr 08 14:16:05 * mwester builds shr-unstable regularly
Apr 08 14:16:35 * mwester built shr-testing once, but it was too old and no point in building locally since its easier to download the binaries from the web.
Apr 08 14:17:14 * mwester throws a day-old quiche at Ainulindale for spending way too much time with his girlfriend instead of here writing software!
Apr 08 14:17:27 <Zorkman> only a day old?
Apr 08 14:17:28 <billk> mwester: do you do a clean build (rm -rf everything), or just changes?
Apr 08 14:17:32 <Zorkman> i'd eat it :p
Apr 08 14:17:54 <mwester> billk:  Both; I delete tmp every week or two.
Apr 08 14:18:00 <janf> i used http://shr.bearstech.com/Makefile  and did everything the wiki-article told me to to :/
Apr 08 14:18:31 <billk> mwester: not the same as what I am having to do then - when I first
Apr 08 14:18:35 <dent> janf: I remember coming across that and giving up
Apr 08 14:18:48 <spaetz> bluez4                                    0:4.33-r2
Apr 08 14:18:48 <mwester> Why give up?
Apr 08 14:18:53 <spaetz> billk: ^^^
Apr 08 14:18:57 <billk> ran into probs I rm -rf'd everything except downloads and it just
Apr 08 14:19:05 <mwester> The patch is dirt-simple (even though it should be already applied)
Apr 08 14:19:32 <mwester> bluez4 had (or may still have) another problem, that perhaps is host-sensitive.  There's a half-way applied patch in OE...
Apr 08 14:19:34 <spaetz> mwester: what type of patch would it need?
Apr 08 14:19:51 <billk> got worse.  i.e., I think the bluez problem is it cant find usb.h (I think, not in front of me) so it might
Apr 08 14:19:59 <mwester> s/-m0644/-m 0644/ <Makefile.fwinst
Apr 08 14:20:05 <billk> be a build order problem - will track that tomorrow.
Apr 08 14:20:30 <spaetz> I know I applied a patch to obexftp because that did not include bluetooth.h
Apr 08 14:20:44 <nytowl> spaetz : vala from git doesn't currently build properly
Apr 08 14:20:58 <spaetz> mwester: just tried in a devshell. OE install copes fine with -m0644
Apr 08 14:21:21 <spaetz> nytowl: even the one in the OE dev branch? mmh, ok, then mickey needs to fix that first. Sorry, and thanks for ooking into it
Apr 08 14:21:54 <spaetz> mwester: the problem I see with that line: "/media/disk/shr-unstable/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/bin/install-sh: ./-m0644  does not exist."
Apr 08 14:22:20 <spaetz> is that it expands $(INSTALL) to nothing, so it tries to execute ./
Apr 08 14:22:21 <nytowl> spaetz, I have all of the patches waiting on my local MS5.5 branch. Only vala-bootstrap-native_0.6.0 needs fixing
Apr 08 14:22:44 <spaetz> ok, will nag mickey into fixing :) thanks
Apr 08 14:24:05 <spaetz> mwester: I tried "install -m0644 /somefile /tmp" and that worked fine from the OE devshell
Apr 08 14:24:18 <spaetz> so the missing space is not the issue
Apr 08 14:24:32 <spaetz> from my naive test (I might well be wrong)
Apr 08 14:25:15 <janf> spaetz: i replaced "-m0644" with "-m 0644" and try to build again
Apr 08 14:27:29 <spaetz> janf: yep, try that
Apr 08 14:27:43 <spaetz> let us know if it helps
Apr 08 14:33:17 <janf> spaetz: no errors anymore!
Apr 08 14:34:50 <billk> spaetz: thanks for bluez info
Apr 08 14:35:11 <janf> mwester: thanks for the missing-space-hint :)
Apr 08 14:39:19 <spaetz> ok, so it is those darn spaces. interesting
Apr 08 14:39:36 <spaetz> I wonder why I can compile the kernel successfully
Apr 08 14:39:53 <billk> spaetz: http://pastebin.com/d34f9e919 for bluez error
Apr 08 14:39:57 <billk> nite all
Apr 08 14:40:23 <spaetz> billk: if you find a patch to fix it, I can incorporate
Apr 08 14:40:27 <toggles_w> oh oh bluez is fixed?
Apr 08 14:40:36 <spaetz> at least into SHR, although this would preferrably go into OE
Apr 08 14:40:44 <toggles_w> oh.. famn
Apr 08 14:40:46 <toggles_w> damn
Apr 08 14:43:35 <mwester> spaetz:  The inconsistency is indeed baffling, and is probably the root problem here.  Something is clearly not right in some way. :(
Apr 08 14:45:30 * spaetz agrees
Apr 08 15:14:19 <Sharwin_F> dejavu, fbreader from feeds comes another time without the patch applied
Apr 08 15:14:56 <Sharwin_F> why that's always happening?
Apr 08 15:22:14 <ptitjes> guys where can I get the list of mandatory commands to run the SHR Makefile and bitbake ?
Apr 08 15:22:34 <ptitjes> the wiki page gives some for ubuntu, but I'd like a more complete list
Apr 08 15:46:49 <janf> ERROR: Task 2930 (/media/disk/shr-unstable/openembedded/packages/bluez/bluez4_4.33.bb, do_compile) failed
Apr 08 15:46:56 <janf> is there any patch for that? :/
Apr 08 15:49:10 <morphis> new blog post: http://blog.shr-project.org/2009/04/shr-is-running-on-eten-m800.html
Apr 08 15:53:56 <playya> hmm. only 249€ for a new mobile running openmoko
Apr 08 15:54:13 <Azog> pulster?
Apr 08 15:54:36 <playya> pearl
Apr 08 15:59:49 <mwester> janf:  how would we know if you do not provide the logfile (pastebin)?
Apr 08 16:00:56 <janf> mwester: sry, http://pastebin.com/d3e3292a9
Apr 08 16:03:41 <playya> i had this error some time ago. but can't remember why
Apr 08 16:10:04 <playya> mwester, should bluez4 depend on libusb-native?
Apr 08 16:11:46 <mwester> I think that may be at the root of the problem; there's an inconsistency/conflict that can arise between libusb vs libusb1/libusb-compat
Apr 08 16:13:20 <onen> stefan_schmidt: hallo
Apr 08 16:13:32 <onen> morphis: hi
Apr 08 16:14:11 <onen> morphis: I have seen some effort in porting SHR on x800, what is the status of this?
Apr 08 16:19:43 <morphis> onen: X800 is near the same as M800
Apr 08 16:19:56 <playya> mwester, and libusb-1.0.0 use include/libusb-1.0/libusb.h instead of include/usb.h
Apr 08 16:20:07 <morphis> on M800 the basics are working 
Apr 08 16:20:22 <morphis> but no modem, wifi, bluetooth atm
Apr 08 16:20:39 <morphis> modem code is just there but we can talk with it actually
Apr 08 16:21:10 <onen> morphis: do you think this is possible to make it *really* work? I have seen a lot of efforts trying to run linux things on phones (HTC, ...) but never reached sth usable
Apr 08 16:21:33 <morphis> onen: I am back in about an hour than I can answer more detailed questions
Apr 08 16:21:44 <onen> morphis: ok, thanks
Apr 08 16:21:50 <onen> morphis: no hurry :-)
Apr 08 16:24:10 <ptitjes> onen: hello
Apr 08 16:24:43 <ptitjes> guys I've got some warning like the following while bitbaking, is that normal
Apr 08 16:24:46 <ptitjes> NOTE: fetch http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/sources/git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git.tar.gz
Apr 08 16:24:46 <ptitjes> env: wget: No such file or directory
Apr 08 16:26:19 <ptitjes> this happens during the "Handling of bitbake files"
Apr 08 16:27:05 <onen> ptitjes: wassup?
Apr 08 16:27:14 <ptitjes> fine and you ?
Apr 08 16:28:01 <onen> ptitjes: good good. pretty happy to see other people think in the way of openBmap, about what to store or not. feel less lonely ;-)
Apr 08 16:28:46 <ptitjes> also openssl-native_0.9.{7g|7m|8g|8j}.bb fail to parse
Apr 08 16:28:47 <onen> ptitjes: I have started talking to morphis about chances to make SHR working on top of eten x800/ dx 900. dx900 is dual sim, like perfect openBmap logging machine ;-)
Apr 08 16:29:19 <ptitjes> onen: good :D
Apr 08 16:30:46 <ptitjes> anyone can help ? http://pastebin.com/da224197
Apr 08 16:31:18 <onen> ptitjes: see you got your new machine ;-)
Apr 08 16:31:30 <ptitjes> yeah :D
Apr 08 16:31:40 <onen> ptitjes: sorry, ignorant in bb
Apr 08 16:31:54 <ptitjes> it runs pretty fast
Apr 08 16:33:00 <onen> ptitjes: maybe too fast for bb ;-)
Apr 08 16:33:16 <ptitjes> héhéhé
Apr 08 16:56:52 <Sharwin_F-> hmm mplayer doesn't come now with lite image?
Apr 08 16:58:19 <Dave> onen!
Apr 08 16:58:28 <Dave> oh, and ptitjes ¬_¬
Apr 08 17:03:13 <ptitjes> Dave!!!
Apr 08 17:03:17 <ptitjes> how fine ?
Apr 08 17:03:29 <ptitjes> Dave: we have the camera for sure :)
Apr 08 17:03:47 <ptitjes> +video
Apr 08 17:04:12 <Dave> Yay!
Apr 08 17:04:23 * Dave hugs ptitjes
Apr 08 17:05:02 <onen> Dave: Dave, wassup?
Apr 08 17:08:31 <Dave> Hey :)
Apr 08 17:08:45 <Dave> I wish obmap ran on all distros
Apr 08 17:09:30 <onen> Dave: me too. that's good ;-) what do you have in mind exactly?
Apr 08 17:13:25 <admiral0> hi
Apr 08 17:14:00 <admiral0> does the shr image for eten m800 work with eten glofiish m810?
Apr 08 17:15:56 <Dave> maybe I just need to install all the necessary/required libs on the target device, but still :\
Apr 08 17:16:02 <Dave> kind of a pain :D
Apr 08 17:16:13 <Dave> stupid gui
Apr 08 17:16:42 <lindi-> Dave, distros should package it, not upstream
Apr 08 17:16:50 <Dave> yeah yeah
Apr 08 17:19:08 <onen> Dave: you mean, when you try to install the ipk, you miss dependencies?
Apr 08 17:20:05 <onen> Dave: the ipk from feeds have been working under FSO and SHR. If dependencies are missing, let me know.
Apr 08 17:20:19 <onen> Dave: or did you use the ipk from opkg/sourceforge?
Apr 08 17:21:14 <morphis> onen: it is hard to say if we reach the "full support" state one day 
Apr 08 17:21:30 <morphis> onen: it depends much on the man power we have and the community 
Apr 08 17:22:00 <Dave> yeah, unfortunately it doesn't run on gtk or qt :P
Apr 08 17:22:10 <Dave> haha
Apr 08 17:22:12 <morphis> onen: maybe such projects like gnufiish we become more attention these days through the stopped gta03
Apr 08 17:22:14 <Dave> damn fso
Apr 08 17:22:18 <Dave> and it's pesky dbus :)
Apr 08 17:22:21 <morphis> s/we/will/
Apr 08 17:22:22 <bzzbot> morphis meant: onen: maybe such projects like gnufiish will become more attention these days through the stopped gta03
Apr 08 17:22:57 <onen> morphis: that is precisely my fear, to almost be there, but not reach it. That is the main reason I have been supporting om since I discovered it
Apr 08 17:23:08 <morphis> onen: jepp
Apr 08 17:23:30 <morphis> onen: I am very happy with the freerunner actually, but it missed some features I really want to have
Apr 08 17:23:57 <morphis> onen: and I want a real linux (not a cracky android) running on my phone
Apr 08 17:24:15 <onen> morphis: I have been following progresses of x800 port, (and also of HTCs), and thought about helping, but I have very 0 knowledge of low level things :-( fear to start from too far away
Apr 08 17:24:50 <morphis> onen: and it seems so that the glofiish series are the best chance to get a near full supported phone because they are using many similiar components like the gta02 or gta03 uses
Apr 08 17:24:55 <onen> morphis: (android) agree. Able to cross compile anything, to use everything existing, any lib, any language is so convenient
Apr 08 17:25:20 <onen> morphis: and as the G1, for what I have understood from a presentation from laforge
Apr 08 17:26:17 <morphis> with the G1 you have the same thing like with any other phone
Apr 08 17:26:19 <onen> Dave: what? does not run on GTK??? again, you lost me :-P You got the package from opkg/sourceforge, right? what distro are you using? does the application runs?
Apr 08 17:26:29 <morphis> because there are many many blobs in the android sources
Apr 08 17:27:13 <Dave> -_-
Apr 08 17:27:29 <onen> morphis: for what I had understood, he was hoping to have better chance to reach a working point because of the similarities of many components of the G1 with the eten, and of the eten with the GTA02.
Apr 08 17:28:05 <morphis> jepp
Apr 08 17:28:22 <Dave> morphis, make the future!
Apr 08 17:28:26 <Dave> who will succeed?
Apr 08 17:28:51 <morphis> Dave: don't know
Apr 08 17:28:58 <onen> morphis: still, I like the idea to try to make it work. Do you know what kind of knowledge is mandatory to help? I have near 0 in hardware things
Apr 08 17:29:30 <morphis> onen: the same for me, I don't have a big knowledge like laforge in hardware things but I try to learn it :)
Apr 08 17:30:00 <onen> morphis: but you have a phone ;-) I do not even have a piece of hardware so far :-(
Apr 08 17:30:01 <morphis> currently we have some trouble with the touchscreen and I am triying to get it working (never have done anything in the linux kernel before)
Apr 08 17:30:11 <morphis> onen: ah ok
Apr 08 17:30:45 <Dave> ~_~
Apr 08 17:31:08 <onen> morphis: for what I have understood, you do not need to flash the phone, right? it keeps all the dirty WM things? do you have to open the case and plug anything? (I may find one phone at work...)
Apr 08 17:31:50 <onen> Dave: sorry, I want to help you, but you lost me. I am not even sure if you have problems to run oepnBmap or not :-D
Apr 08 17:31:54 <morphis> onen: me currently not, but laforge has maybe
Apr 08 17:32:21 <morphis> onen: I found so far something on a eten forum about flashing wm images to the phone
Apr 08 17:32:44 <onen> mrophis: I guess you are in touch with him? how does he things progressing?
Apr 08 17:33:19 <morphis> onen: me not really, but stefan_schmidt is
Apr 08 17:33:25 <onen> mrophis: I guess you are in touch with him? how does he thinks, things are progressing?
Apr 08 17:33:37 <morphis> he will meet with him in the next weeks to get the modem driver running
Apr 08 17:33:40 <onen> morphis: ok
Apr 08 17:36:12 <onen> Dave: I don't want to become annoying, but I am very interested to solve your problems, would it be because other people may encounter them, so feel free to let me know what you encounter
Apr 08 17:36:34 <Dave> It only runs on FSO right? because of DBUS :P
Apr 08 17:37:03 <onen> Dave: it does, thus FSO, SHR and Debian (and some others)
Apr 08 17:37:26 <onen> Dave: and you would like to see it run under which distri?
Apr 08 17:37:41 <onen> Dave:  maybe you have a WM phone, a client exists for it :-P
Apr 08 17:38:11 <lindi-> wm?
Apr 08 17:38:41 <onen> Dave: well, for debian, no package at the moment, did not have time. but as fso has been packaged for it, I don't see why this would not work (beside a dirty hardcoded path in my code, shame on me)
Apr 08 17:38:51 <onen> lindi: Windows Mobile
Apr 08 17:39:13 <Dave> oh, no
Apr 08 17:39:20 <onen> Dave: :-D
Apr 08 17:39:24 <Dave> haha if it would run under gtk :P
Apr 08 17:39:26 <Dave> hahahah
Apr 08 17:39:30 <Dave> write a new client app? :D
Apr 08 17:39:33 * Dave laughs
Apr 08 17:40:27 <onen> Dave: the app already runs under GTK under LInux. But the wm client does not. do you want me to port the inteface to it? ;-)
Apr 08 17:40:56 <Dave> would it be difficult? :P
Apr 08 17:44:55 <onen> Dave: in fact I don't know. 1. I don't remember what is the status of GTK under WM, but qt is now officialy supporte dthere, I think. 2. the code is from Nick, not from me, and I did not work on it. so don't know what it looks like
Apr 08 17:45:51 <onen> Dave: I would rather restart from scratch with another toolkit and/or language with/without framework, than working again under Windows Mobile
Apr 08 17:46:23 <onen> Dave: I still fill tainted from the time I had to work with it for a living
Apr 08 17:48:24 <onen> Dave: what about making it work using sth else as the engine? yeah... I know, you don't like slippery animals ;-)
Apr 08 17:53:23 <Dave> I don't use Windows Mobile
Apr 08 17:53:26 <Dave> -at all-
Apr 08 17:53:41 <Dave> Anyway, it's fine, I'll just use it under SHR :P
Apr 08 17:54:26 <dent> onen: you too have a shameful episode with wince? :)
Apr 08 17:59:38 <onen> Dave: what distri would you like to see it run on?
Apr 08 17:59:52 <Dave> Nevermind!
Apr 08 18:00:00 <Dave> I don't want to bother you with added silliness :P
Apr 08 18:00:01 <onen> dent: well, it is too early for talking about it, I am not ready...
Apr 08 18:00:25 <onen> Dave: right, mines are keeping me already busy ;-)
Apr 08 18:00:33 <Dave> ;)
Apr 08 18:00:36 <Dave> I figured as much!
Apr 08 18:00:39 <onen> Dave: dent: tests done with bugfix, packaging it
Apr 08 18:00:49 <Dave> \o/
Apr 08 18:02:17 <onen> basically, my work with WM make me think that I will feel narrowed under Android (WM allows different language, what android, does not on regular phones)
Apr 08 18:03:36 <onen> Dave: dent: I still wait to see a little bit how things will turn out on thread regarding possible collaboration/merging of GSM database projects for FSO.
Apr 08 18:03:49 <dent> my job is about some wince automotive trash... sigh
Apr 08 18:04:30 <Dave> Yeah!
Apr 08 18:04:32 <Dave> I really hope so :)
Apr 08 18:04:39 <Dave> dent? o_O
Apr 08 18:04:51 <onen> Dave: dent: don't want to put efforts if next week we decide to do sth different, or abandon my code ;-) but still I am getting tired of waiting, and feel the urge to bring improvement to my app ;-) some kind of geeky side of me, I guess
Apr 08 18:04:57 <dent> Dave: nah... just revealing my secret :)
Apr 08 18:05:08 * onen hughs dent
Apr 08 18:05:11 <dent> :)
Apr 08 18:05:14 * onen hugs dent
Apr 08 18:05:35 <dent> onen: are you by any chance female? :)
Apr 08 18:05:40 <onen> Dave: dent: do you follow the thread on ML ?
Apr 08 18:05:58 <Dave> hehe
Apr 08 18:06:06 <Dave> I haven't been recently :p
Apr 08 18:06:14 <dent> onen: which ML? :)
Apr 08 18:06:24 <onen> dent: are you an open-minded man? I mean, female, like born so, or dressed up like would suffice?
Apr 08 18:06:32 <dent> lol :))
Apr 08 18:06:38 <dent> sorry, not that open-minded :)
Apr 08 18:06:51 <onen> dent: you live in the past! :-P
Apr 08 18:06:57 <Dave> :D
Apr 08 18:07:01 <dent> I'll think of that :))
Apr 08 18:07:09 <Dave> onen - rofl - tmi!
Apr 08 18:07:58 <dent> tmi?
Apr 08 18:08:26 <onen> dent: well to be honnest: you can only see some of the discussion on MLs (devel, and smartphone standards), because Thomas (opencellid) and Sebastian (cellhunter) are only subscribded to some of them (Thomas I think none of them). And the list let only subscribers messages through... but through responses, you get the original emails
Apr 08 18:09:06 <dent> I'll have a look... but as for OM-stuff, I'm on shr-devel only
Apr 08 18:09:18 <onen> dent: I see.
Apr 08 18:09:18 <dent> somehow never was cosy with MLs
Apr 08 18:10:07 <Dave> grrr... Sebastian...
Apr 08 18:10:14 <onen> dent: well, the fact is, I am ready to keep going on working on my logger, and bringing improvements, but not if this is trashed next week... still, I need some patience here, to allow people to give their point of view
Apr 08 18:10:30 <onen> Dave: what Sebastian?
Apr 08 18:10:55 <Dave> ¬_¬
Apr 08 18:11:04 <Dave> Man
Apr 08 18:11:21 <Dave> Why doesn't /anyone/ want to share their db, or at least dicuss a managed merge?
Apr 08 18:11:24 <Dave> bastards...
Apr 08 18:11:47 <alphaone> Dave: It's sad, isn't it?
Apr 08 18:11:57 <onen> Dave: well I think we do! Nick proposed to put our extra fields in opencellid, last month already, this is in ML archive.
Apr 08 18:12:43 <Dave> Yes, come on people, we're not hippies, but at least we should be working together :(
Apr 08 18:13:10 <Dave> onen, but who will be in charge then, or is just saying, oh yeah yeah we'll add your crap, thanks for the input, kthxbye
Apr 08 18:13:12 <mickeyl> morning
Apr 08 18:13:48 <Dave> Yes, hey Mickey
Apr 08 18:14:09 <onen> Dave: well what do you reproach to us? do you think what we (obm) propose is not satisfying?
Apr 08 18:14:30 <Dave> It's not that, it's more so how it's being done
Apr 08 18:14:42 <onen> mickeyl: morgen (wha ttime zone are you in? morning?)
Apr 08 18:15:22 <Dave> Mickey Standard Time?
Apr 08 18:15:33 <mickeyl> yep
Apr 08 18:15:34 <mickeyl> MST
Apr 08 18:15:49 <mickeyl> actually it's UGT
Apr 08 18:15:50 <mickeyl> ~ugt
Apr 08 18:15:57 <mickeyl> hmm no bot here
Apr 08 18:16:16 <mickeyl> <apt> methinks ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Apr 08 18:16:21 <onen> Dave: we proposed to merge obm db in opencellid, and stop our db. This would of course imply that we could have some assurance to be able to work comfortably with it
Apr 08 18:16:25 <Dave> heh
Apr 08 18:16:50 <onen> mickeyl: :-D
Apr 08 18:16:55 <Dave> Onen, but they would retain control?
Apr 08 18:17:01 <Dave> we serve them?
Apr 08 18:17:37 <bumbl> i love that ugt attitude (as it fits my rl one)
Apr 08 18:17:55 <Dave> :P
Apr 08 18:18:31 <onen> Dave: well I cannot argue so. I mean, if this would be located at openbmap place, you would have to trust us. why more trust in openbmap as in opencellid? Or maybe you think about multiple administrative accounts, to prevent stop of managing the db?
Apr 08 18:18:43 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: ??
Apr 08 18:19:11 <Dave> yeah
Apr 08 18:19:15 <Dave> something like that
Apr 08 18:20:40 <onen> Dave: my vision was: if the project runs well, maybe somebody (or entity) woudl propose hosting for the db/server thing. IIRC Nick already has modified his db to allow easy hosting of db in every country, with onlythe frontal service dispatching logs for inclusion. for better scaling
Apr 08 18:22:05 <onen> mickeyl: I would like to know if you have followed the ongoing discussion about GSM location databases merge/collaboration on ML, and if you could give me your opinion about it?
Apr 08 18:23:54 <mickeyl> onen: i have loosely been following, but didn't dive into the details. what exactly do you like me to commit on? (let me start with saying that I'd rather prefer a "living" database with less cells than a dead one with huge ones, i.e. the most important thing to me is that we can communicate to make things better for people using FSO)
Apr 08 18:24:04 <mickeyl> s/commit/comment/
Apr 08 18:24:04 <bzzbot> mickeyl meant: onen: i have loosely been following, but didn't dive into the details. what exactly do you like me to comment on? (let me start with saying that I'd rather prefer a "living" database with less cells than a dead one with huge ones, i.e. the most important ...
Apr 08 18:24:15 <mickeyl> s/huge/many/
Apr 08 18:24:17 <bzzbot> mickeyl meant: onen: i have loosely been following, but didn't dive into the details. what exactly do you like me to commit on? (let me start with saying that I'd rather prefer a "living" database with less cells than a dead one with many ones, i.e. the most important t...
Apr 08 18:24:57 <alphaone> s
Apr 08 18:24:59 <alphaone> s/s/ss/
Apr 08 18:24:59 <bzzbot> alphaone meant: ss
Apr 08 18:25:01 <alphaone> s/s/ss/
Apr 08 18:25:01 <bzzbot> alphaone meant: ss
Apr 08 18:28:15 <onen> mickeyl: no commitment, just your impression. I think Stefan is following closely the discussion. I have the feeling that it kind of stalls now, and that already happened last month when I tried to propose collaboration. This time I would like to get a bit further. And know if this makes sense or not to keep putting my efforts in openBmap.
Apr 08 18:29:42 <onen> mickeyl: we have less cells, but we put high the fact that we want high quality data. not quantity. opencellid has stated that they target quantity. So we try to see if people are interested in our approach, or not.
Apr 08 18:30:07 <mickeyl> dent: access granted. welcome on board
Apr 08 18:31:12 <mickeyl> onen: i for one am grateful that you seem to be pushing the collaboration. that's enough for me to say "lets use this db by default and try to streamline pushing data to it"
Apr 08 18:31:23 <onen> mickeyl: I can imagine that Stefan and you will discuss this matter later, I don't want to bother you too much with this.
Apr 08 18:31:45 * onen feels honored
Apr 08 18:32:12 <onen> mickeyl: well I could not have wished more satisfying answer from you! thanks.
Apr 08 18:32:39 <mickeyl> :) tomorrow we have our weekly telco. stefan_schmidt will put us all up to date and then we can think about how to move forward
Apr 08 18:33:27 <onen> mickeyl: perfect! feel free to let me know what is the outcome, even if this turns "bad" for oepnBmap, for any reason :-)
Apr 08 18:33:38 <mickeyl> for sure.
Apr 08 18:34:23 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: monthly conf call will no longer work for me on thursday
Apr 08 18:34:35 <onen> mickeyl: I am looking forward knowing how we move forward, to see if I keep going on my logger code :-)
Apr 08 18:34:37 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: wednesday or friday would be better
Apr 08 18:34:41 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: hi, btw :)
Apr 08 18:35:06 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: hi. ya, read your mail. does that also affect tomorrow or can you make an exception?
Apr 08 18:35:20 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: friday is fine for me as well
Apr 08 18:35:26 <mickeyl> although in general i prefer wed.
Apr 08 18:35:45 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: tomorrow not really. University schedule
Apr 08 18:35:59 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: This week on friday and starting from next week wed?
Apr 08 18:36:37 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: fine with me. shoragan, alphaone|gone ?
Apr 08 18:37:03 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: arg, moment
Apr 08 18:37:11 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: It's karfreitag
Apr 08 18:37:19 <mwester> bluez4 recipe update needs to be merged to the fso5.5 milestone branch, btw
Apr 08 18:37:20 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Family diner
Apr 08 18:37:29 <mickeyl> heh
Apr 08 18:37:39 <mickeyl> 15:00 ?
Apr 08 18:37:49 <mickeyl> or is it the whole day?
Apr 08 18:38:03 <stefan_schmidt> And Should be  better
Apr 08 18:38:25 <stefan_schmidt> Tomorrow will alos not work as it is the 11th year with my GF
Apr 08 18:39:05 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: I'll write a mail when finished with food
Apr 08 18:39:27 <mickeyl> 11. nice.
Apr 08 18:39:35 <mickeyl> congrats
Apr 08 18:39:37 <mickeyl> oki
Apr 08 18:39:45 * mwester figures stefan_schmidt is pretty much married.
Apr 08 18:39:46 <mwester> :D
Apr 08 18:39:54 <Dave> :P
Apr 08 18:40:10 <stefan_schmidt> mwester: heh, you should talk to her ;)
Apr 08 18:41:04 <onen> stefan_schmidt: congrats
Apr 08 18:42:00 <mwester> playya:  the bluez4 problem is that it is missing a dependency on libusb-compat on the FSO 5.5 branch; that has been fixed on the OE dev branch.  If you bitbake libusb-compat, then you'll find bluez4 will build correctly.
Apr 08 18:42:19 <stefan_schmidt> thanks guys
Apr 08 18:42:34 <playya> ah ok. thx mwester 
Apr 08 18:43:15 <mickeyl> nytowl: (bluez4) can you do that?
Apr 08 18:43:32 <mickeyl> nytowl: (vala) that should have been fixed with my last commit in oe.dev
Apr 08 18:43:57 <nytowl> ok I'll bring both of those over and test
Apr 08 18:44:27 <Ainulindale> mwester: FYI I just moved
Apr 08 18:44:27 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r2b3348c11b70 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (commandqueue.vala mediators.vala): fsogsm: modify command syntax for mediators
Apr 08 18:44:31 <Ainulindale> I have other stuff to do than developing =)
Apr 08 18:44:36 * onen goes for lunch
Apr 08 18:44:39 <Ainulindale> And anyway, I spent yesterday trying to fix stuff
Apr 08 18:44:46 <Ainulindale> ptitjes?
Apr 08 18:48:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07cornucopia * r804b44062f2a 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/ (fsoframework-2.0.vapi interfaces.vala): 
Apr 08 18:48:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Add Display interface to libfsoframework
Apr 08 18:48:56 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Sudharshan 'Sup3rkiddo' S <sudharsh@gmail.com>
Apr 08 18:48:58 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07cornucopia * r1cb344a72041 10/fsodeviced/ (6 files in 3 dirs): 
Apr 08 18:48:59 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Add kernel26_display. No abort errors here
Apr 08 18:49:01 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Sudharshan 'Sup3rkiddo' S <sudharsh@gmail.com>
Apr 08 18:49:03 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rde740627c948 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/kernel26_display/plugin.vala: fsodevice: kernel26_display: whitespace changes; please use 4 spaces, no tabs
Apr 08 18:58:32 <mwester> ]ERROR: maximum recursion depth exceeded while parsing /r/shr/shr-unstable/openembedded/packages/sato-icon-theme/sato-icon-theme_0.1.bb
Apr 08 18:58:41 <mwester> OOooooops!
Apr 08 18:58:47 <mwester> Who's recipe is that?
Apr 08 18:59:07 <dos1> mwester: isn't it in mainstream OE? ;p
Apr 08 18:59:19 <dos1> it's in shr-unstable/openembedded/
Apr 08 18:59:25 <dos1> no in shr-unstable/shr/openembedded/
Apr 08 18:59:51 <mwester> Yeah, but it would have to be in the FSO 5.5 branch, and those who own that branch hang out here. :)
Apr 08 19:00:22 <dos1> ;)
Apr 08 19:10:36 <PaulFertser> Arhuaco: hey :) One little question: have you tested that usb hostmode thing? I'm a bit worried because i think Balaji wouldn't comment out an important code section (and commit it) just for the fun of it...
Apr 08 19:11:27 <nytowl> any git experts around ?
Apr 08 19:12:02 <PaulFertser> I guess we all know it to varying degrees.
Apr 08 19:12:58 <yoh> Hi guys... I wonder what is the upstream repository for zhone? I cloned the git one from pkg-fso Debian maintainers, but I thought find upstream one (if there is any?)
Apr 08 19:13:00 <nytowl> with the recent change to oe moving packages to recipes, a change I haven't made yet
Apr 08 19:13:30 <nytowl> I 'm trying to pull something from the recipes section on oe dev into the ms5.5 branch 
Apr 08 19:13:58 <nytowl> is there an equivalent of patch -p1 for git ?
Apr 08 19:14:43 <bumbl> PaulFertser: i missed the bus ;( ; still interested in newton's first axiom?
Apr 08 19:15:20 <bumbl> yoh: http://git.freesmartphone.org/
Apr 08 19:15:36 <PaulFertser> nytowl: you can apply patches (exported by git format-patch e.g.) with "git am"
Apr 08 19:15:39 <mwester> nytowl:  just use patch -p1
Apr 08 19:15:51 <yoh> bumbl, THANKS!
Apr 08 19:16:04 <PaulFertser> bumbl: sorry to hear that (missed bus)
Apr 08 19:16:12 <PaulFertser> bumbl: but yes, i'm still interested.
Apr 08 19:16:36 <nytowl> PaulFertser mwester thx
Apr 08 19:16:50 <bumbl> well newton's first axiom says that without an external force a "thing" won't change its state (at least that is how i learned it)
Apr 08 19:17:02 <Zorkman_> small question, cant shr testing not untar tar.gz files?
Apr 08 19:17:14 <PaulFertser> nytowl: git am will preserve commit message and author name etc. With "patch" you can apply arbitrary patches, but have to fill the necessary information yourself.
Apr 08 19:17:34 <mwester> Zorkman_ not sure what you  mean.  
Apr 08 19:17:35 <Zorkman_> root@om-gta02 /media/card $ tar xvfz shr-image-om-gta02.tar.gz
Apr 08 19:17:35 <Zorkman_> tar: can't open 'z': No such file or directory
Apr 08 19:17:40 <mwester> Oh.
Apr 08 19:17:43 <mwester> Yeah.
Apr 08 19:17:49 <PaulFertser> bumbl: unfortunately it's extremely imprecise description, i'd say.
Apr 08 19:18:06 <Azog> Zorkman_: try xzvf
Apr 08 19:18:07 <nytowl> Zorkman_ try tar xvzf
Apr 08 19:18:09 <Dave> timestamps timestamps timestamps
Apr 08 19:18:13 <mwester> For some inexplicable reason, somebody in OE removed the "z" option support from the busybox config.
Apr 08 19:18:27 <mwester> It's not been put back in, for another inexplicable reason.
Apr 08 19:18:37 <Dave> zorkman, the z must come before the f
Apr 08 19:18:47 <Dave> mwester, yeah
Apr 08 19:18:49 <yoh> I wonder if there is some reason why debian's version of zhone is somewhat outdated? (if Nikita or Joachim are here ;))
Apr 08 19:18:53 <Dave> cocksuckers prefer the antiquated version :D
Apr 08 19:19:07 <Dave> what is this, Solaris6??
Apr 08 19:19:14 <Dave> -gah-
Apr 08 19:19:14 <Zorkman_> root@om-gta02 /media/card $ tar xzvf shr-image-om-gta02.tar.gz
Apr 08 19:19:15 <Zorkman_> tar: invalid option -- z
Apr 08 19:19:15 <Zorkman_> xvzf also doesn work
Apr 08 19:19:18 * mwester hopes that the folks suggesting changing the order are right; that would mean that somebody saw the light and put that option BACK! :D
Apr 08 19:19:30 <Dave> so, gunzip first, then untar
Apr 08 19:19:36 <Dave> it's annoying, but gogogo
Apr 08 19:19:53 <mwester> Real annoying because it doesn't save any space to disable it in the first place.
Apr 08 19:20:03 <bumbl> PaulFertser: if an object is moving in a closed system without friction it will keep its velocity unless you act out a force
Apr 08 19:20:07 <mwester> It was just a pointless change in OE...
Apr 08 19:20:21 <Dave> Or Dave enacts his wrath upon it!
Apr 08 19:20:54 <PaulFertser> bumbl: basically that's correct only for inertial frame references by definition of an inertial frame reference. And no definition can be considered a "law" or "axiom".
Apr 08 19:22:18 <Dave> Paul, Paul, The Physics man :D
Apr 08 19:23:35 <PaulFertser> Dave: nah, i don't understand real physics (lack of mathematical knowledge mostly), just school (or bad engineer) level.
Apr 08 19:24:08 <Dave> :P
Apr 08 19:24:11 <Dave> nice
Apr 08 19:25:10 <bumbl> PaulFertser: now i get your point - you are talking about the coriolis effect
Apr 08 19:25:37 <Arhuaco> PaulFertser: I did not test it. It compiled and it didn't break USB client.
Apr 08 19:25:42 <PaulFertser> Dave: do you know all that funny stuff like aximatic set theory, algebras, rings, groups and other basic maths stuff?
Apr 08 19:25:56 <Dave> some :)
Apr 08 19:26:08 <PaulFertser> Arhuaco: it couldn't break usb client if you don't switch it. I'm afraid Balaji had a real reason to comment it out. :)
Apr 08 19:26:16 <PaulFertser> Dave: some ZFC?
Apr 08 19:26:36 <Dave> I'm only familiar with most of it in passing or the basics
Apr 08 19:26:53 <Dave> I really am not a theoretical mathematician or physicist, nor am I fond of either :p
Apr 08 19:26:53 <PaulFertser> I don't even know the basics, only funky words :-/
Apr 08 19:27:35 <Dave> though I can't hate ... or else I'll get my ass beat by a girl :D
Apr 08 19:29:08 <fredrin> girlyman? 
Apr 08 19:29:30 <Dave> What? Who!? :P
Apr 08 19:29:31 <bumbl> PaulFertser: actually we did all of the basics you said in school
Apr 08 19:29:44 <Dave> Bumble - and did you like them? :D
Apr 08 19:30:03 <PaulFertser> bumbl: set theory? Axiom of Choice? Etc?
Apr 08 19:30:09 <fredrin> (: 
Apr 08 19:30:25 <bumbl> Dave: i don't have anything against the math i had/have to do regulary
Apr 08 19:30:32 <fredrin> PaulFertser: discrete maths is enough
Apr 08 19:30:34 <Dave> :P
Apr 08 19:31:13 <PaulFertser> fredrin: some people i know think no math is enough. ;)
Apr 08 19:31:23 <fredrin> either the math axioms are true or false 
Apr 08 19:31:38 <fredrin> math is better than many other things, yes
Apr 08 19:31:41 <PaulFertser> fredrin: how can an axiom be false? ;)
Apr 08 19:32:46 <bumbl> PaulFertser: basic set theory yes (if wikipedia's translation to german is correct)
Apr 08 19:33:33 <bumbl> well axiom of choice is just a law (we didn't learn about it) which to me makes sense
Apr 08 19:33:50 <PaulFertser> bumbl: have you studied Russell's paradox at school?
Apr 08 19:35:08 <dos1> axiom?
Apr 08 19:35:20 * dos1 is searching translation...
Apr 08 19:35:28 <PaulFertser> bumbl: even Naive set theory is complex enough so i can't really understand it; it takes me a day to understand just 3 pages from the book.
Apr 08 19:35:57 <Dave> silly dos
Apr 08 19:36:55 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * redbba5e16113 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/const.py modems/abstract/mediator.py): 
Apr 08 19:36:55 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Convert MCC and MNC to int when comparing
Apr 08 19:36:55 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: This fixes http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/375
Apr 08 19:37:04 <bumbl> dos1: axiom = law
Apr 08 19:37:07 <PaulFertser> bumbl: and it takes me a week without practicing to forget it again.
Apr 08 19:37:10 <PaulFertser> bumbl: no!
Apr 08 19:37:15 <dos1> bumbl: no
Apr 08 19:37:26 <dos1> axiom is law, but it's something more
Apr 08 19:37:32 <dos1> as i see on polish wikipedia
Apr 08 19:38:00 <PaulFertser> dos1: axiom == some statement defined to be true in particular axiomatic theory.
Apr 08 19:38:19 <bumbl> PaulFertser: nah we did not do Russels Paradox (as i said we did just the basics)
Apr 08 19:38:21 <Zorkman_> i installed the latest shr unstable and the desktop is full of various settings icons, is this intended?
Apr 08 19:38:26 <dos1> but reading wiki... i thing if only my math teacher would expain it to me, i would understand it
Apr 08 19:38:42 <dos1> it doesn't look so difficult
Apr 08 19:38:47 <PaulFertser> bumbl: it's basics actually. If you don't limit ways to define a set, then you'll face it immediately :) iirc
Apr 08 19:39:48 <bumbl> PaulFertser: law = statement that has to be obeyed in certain conditions
Apr 08 19:39:55 <bumbl> -> law = axiom
Apr 08 19:39:58 <dos1> PulFertser: i won't understand your explaining :D i like wikipedia's one more :P
Apr 08 19:40:00 <PaulFertser> (face it immediately) of course, if you've heard about it
Apr 08 19:40:37 <PaulFertser> bumbl: statement to obey? In some legal sense it's probably true, but in maths you don't obey anything :)
Apr 08 19:41:00 <dos1> i agree with PaulFertser ;]
Apr 08 19:41:05 <bumbl> PaulFertser: it might be basics but in fact ~50% were struggeling to pass
Apr 08 19:41:16 <bumbl> s/basics/below basics/
Apr 08 19:41:18 <bzzbot> bumbl meant: PaulFertser: it might be below basics but in fact ~50% were struggeling to pass
Apr 08 19:41:50 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yé
Apr 08 19:41:53 <bumbl> PaulFertser: well i used obey as i don't know a word which fits better to express what i mean
Apr 08 19:42:32 <PaulFertser> bumbl: i'd say in maths law==theorem (something that can be proved given set of axioms)
Apr 08 19:42:56 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I've got problems with openssl-native from oe, do you have the same ?
Apr 08 19:46:17 <Zorkman_> wifi borked in latest shr unstable?
Apr 08 19:47:24 <fredrin>  what what what, wifi b0rked, that can't be
Apr 08 19:51:15 <Zorkman_> icant power wifi on with terminal (mdbus) and the connections settings does not show a wifi slider
Apr 08 19:51:45 <fredrin> Zorkman_: try to run 'depmod -a' and reboot 
Apr 08 19:51:53 <Zorkman_> k, i will
Apr 08 19:52:01 <Zorkman_> what does that do?
Apr 08 19:52:24 <fredrin> fix module loading problems 
Apr 08 19:52:40 <Sharwin_F-> Zorkman, for the icons, opkg update && upgrade
Apr 08 19:53:29 <Zorkman_> and when booting for the first time it asks for thins to put in quicklaunch
Apr 08 19:53:44 <Zorkman_> were is this quicklaunch located?
Apr 08 19:55:06 <fredrin> quicklanuch?
Apr 08 19:57:10 <Dave> openlunch?
Apr 08 19:57:11 <Dave> :D
Apr 08 19:57:25 <fredrin> quicklunch is gooood
Apr 08 19:57:45 * fredrin misses norwegian quicklunch now that's it easter
Apr 08 20:02:39 * DocScrutinizer missedlunch
Apr 08 20:03:57 <dent> I'm looking at how the SHR makefile sets up the dir. structure and I wonder: how come bitbake sees stuff stom $TOPDIR/../shr/openembedded/*/*.bb ?
Apr 08 20:04:03 <dent> or am I wrong, and it sees it no?
Apr 08 20:04:06 <dent> s/no/not/
Apr 08 20:04:06 <bzzbot> dent meant: or am I wrong, and it sees it not?
Apr 08 20:04:38 <dent> nah, I figured... I guess
Apr 08 20:04:53 <dent> sometimes asking is the best way to make one realize the answer :)
Apr 08 20:06:27 <fredrin> true
Apr 08 20:11:13 <Ainulindale> mwester?
Apr 08 20:11:31 <Ainulindale> Or anyone with a GTA01
Apr 08 20:11:38 <Ainulindale> I only have windows, and I need to flash latest unstable on it
Apr 08 20:11:43 <Ainulindale> It doesn't seem to be detected by dfu-util
Apr 08 20:11:44 <Ainulindale> Any idea?
Apr 08 20:12:09 <mwester> I've never flashed mine from windows
Apr 08 20:12:15 <mwester> But I can talk to uboot
Apr 08 20:12:34 <Zorkman_> i flashed from win and it worked
Apr 08 20:13:01 <Ainulindale> Well it doesn't seem to be even detected properly by windows
Apr 08 20:13:11 <Ainulindale> Although I have the inf file for the GTA02 (and it seems it's the same)
Apr 08 20:13:25 <mwester> Qi or uboot?
Apr 08 20:13:34 <Ainulindale> uboot
Apr 08 20:13:40 <mmontour> GTA01 had a different USB vendor ID
Apr 08 20:14:13 * mwester thinks mmontour is correct
Apr 08 20:15:24 <Ainulindale> Well, what should I do?
Apr 08 20:16:35 <mwester> boot from uSD until you get to a proper linux host? 
Apr 08 20:16:50 <mmontour> I don't use windows. Maybe you can edit the inf file and change the ID it's looking for?
Apr 08 20:17:07 <Ainulindale> Well I have clearly no idea about what I'm supposed to put there anyway
Apr 08 20:17:17 <Ainulindale> And I'm a windows noob
Apr 08 20:18:05 <tmzt> morricone: I didn't see laf0rge presentation on g1, but the full kernel is gpl even wifi, there are some user space components that interface with kernel trhough mmio devices which are closed, including GL some audio driver and the qualcomm camera library none of which would be required for debian/oe/shr on the device.  the modem interface is shared memory with a closed radio firmware on a seperate core (same soc) which is u
Apr 08 20:19:07 <lindi-> tmzt: too long line?
Apr 08 20:19:24 <lindi-> tmzt: ends at "(same soc) which is"
Apr 08 20:24:08 <Ainulindale> Damn I'm stuck
Apr 08 20:32:46 <onen> Dave: dent: obm 0.2.1 released. updated: sourceforge, opkg.org. wait for inclusion in FSO. then will ask here for inclusion in SHR
Apr 08 20:33:34 <fredrin> onen: obm?
Apr 08 20:34:04 <onen> fredrin: openBmap http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenBmap
Apr 08 20:34:16 <fredrin> ah, k
Apr 08 20:34:34 <onen> fredrin: GSM/GPS logger, to build a free database
Apr 08 20:34:54 <fredrin> better than cellhunter? 
Apr 08 20:35:24 <Ainulindale> onen: well you can give me the bb file I'll commit it
Apr 08 20:35:28 <Ainulindale> Or I can give you commit access
Apr 08 20:35:42 <onen> fredrin: to my point of view, yes, much better :-) You should ask dent and Dave, they are neutral ;-)
Apr 08 20:37:02 <onen> Ainulindale: I am not familiar with bb. so far, Stefan has put it in OE for FSO, and mrmoku has then used the recipe to add it to SHR. I am ok to become commit access, just I am not sure what recipe I should commit ;-)
Apr 08 20:37:32 <Ainulindale> Well if it's already in FSO then it's a piece of cake to update it
Apr 08 20:37:38 <Ainulindale> just ping stefan_schmidt_ 
Apr 08 20:37:40 <fredrin> *testing* 
Apr 08 20:38:19 <onen> fredrin: to sum it up: we focus on quality of data, cellhunter focuses on quantity. Plus our app seems easier to use, when logging offline.
Apr 08 20:38:35 <onen> fredrin: do not hesitate if you have question/comments/rants ;-)
Apr 08 20:39:03 <fredrin> I always got questions/comments/rants, but not always relevant, hehe
Apr 08 20:39:25 <onen> fredrin: no problem, my answers aren't always relevant too ;-)
Apr 08 20:40:08 <onen> stefan_schmidt_: openBmap 0.2.1 release, email sent to you with details, thanks for inclusion in OE
Apr 08 20:41:36 <tmzt> lindi-: sorry, and who ever that was to is not here, but:
Apr 08 20:44:48 <tmzt>  which is
Apr 08 20:44:48 <tmzt>               used on g1 for some low level taks
Apr 08 20:44:48 <tmzt>               like gpio and vreg and some clocks.
Apr 08 20:44:48 <tmzt>               the interface to the modem is a tty
Apr 08 20:44:48 <tmzt>               implemented over this shared memory
Apr 08 20:44:50 <tmzt>               interface and an ethernet-like
Apr 08 20:44:53 <tmzt>               device for data (edge/3g)
Apr 08 20:45:25 <onen> Ainulindale: I don't want to bother too much Stefan, I am already pretty much annoying him all the time because of the ongoing discussion about collaboration between GSM/GPS projects ;-)
Apr 08 20:45:43 <onen> Ainulindale: I will let you know as soon as the recipe hits OE
Apr 08 20:46:22 <fredrin> onen: what's the 'generate' button good for? 
Apr 08 20:47:31 <onen> fredrin: :-( I was proud thinking my interface was intuitive enough for not needing to read the manual :'-(    When you launch the application, it requests the GPS, once 3D fix is got, GPS details will appear
Apr 08 20:48:03 <dent> Ainulindale: I tested my boost recipes... so I guess I could commit those.
Apr 08 20:48:37 <dent> To actualy make use of it, a change for PREFERED_VERSION is needed... should it be in commit together with the recipes?
Apr 08 20:48:45 <dent> btw. I guess nothing in shr uses boost, right?
Apr 08 20:48:46 <onen> fredrin: if you hit 'generate' the logging loop starts, every 'schedule' second (see end of wiki for configuration options) the loop look to see if GPS and GSM data are valid for a log. if so it adds it
Apr 08 20:48:54 <Ainulindale> dent: I have no idea for boost
Apr 08 20:49:01 <Ainulindale> My suggestion would be to build an image and check
Apr 08 20:49:34 <fredrin> onen: hum, why not just 'start logging' instead of generate? 
Apr 08 20:49:40 * fredrin is dumb
Apr 08 20:49:49 <onen> fredrin: note that you don't have to wait for GPS fix to hit 'generate'. as long (and if you lost your fix) as you do not have a fix, no data will be logged, no risk of garbage logging
Apr 08 20:51:02 <onen> fredrin: the project has started by a windows mobile client by Nick. I recycled the buttons. that is the reason. by the way, this is obviously not proper for internationalisation. I will need to switch to pure icon + real text
Apr 08 20:51:15 <dent> Ainulindale: well, if I remove boost recipes and bitbake shr-lite-image, is that enough? (if it builds -> nothing uses boost -> changing the recipe can't break anything)?
Apr 08 20:51:30 <fredrin> onen: ok
Apr 08 20:52:02 <onen> fredrin: there is an ongoing thread on smartphone standards and openmoko devel about possible collaboration between opencellid, cellhunter and openBmap, if you are interested...
Apr 08 20:52:05 <dent> there is a mention of boot in preferred-om-2008-versions.inc, pinning it to an ancient version
Apr 08 20:52:09 <dent> ehm, boost
Apr 08 20:52:26 <fredrin> but like now, i'm indoors and don't get a gps fix, but receive gsm signales, but that won't be logged unless i hit 'generate'? 
Apr 08 20:53:25 <onen> fredrin: even better ;-) you can hit 'generate', as long as GSM *and* GPS data are not valid, it will not generate anything. as soon as both are available, it will log it
Apr 08 20:53:46 <dent> which is cool for "click and forget" approach :)
Apr 08 20:54:06 <fredrin> dent: true :) 
Apr 08 20:54:07 <onen> dent: dobre
Apr 08 20:54:20 <dent> onen: btw, you're from .fr?
Apr 08 20:54:45 <onen> dent: fredrin: Nick and I put focus on quality of data. On my side (the client), I focus on stability, simplicity.
Apr 08 20:55:17 <onen> dent: no this would be such a shame ;-)... ok, OK, I am. But I have non French ancestor ;-)
Apr 08 20:55:18 <fredrin> good 
Apr 08 20:55:40 <Ainulindale> Hmpf. onen
Apr 08 20:55:49 <Ainulindale> What is the shame in having french ancestors? :->
Apr 08 20:56:08 <Ainulindale> Do you want me to thoroughly spank your ass to give you a taste of the french way to chastize?
Apr 08 20:57:07 <bumbl> Ainulindale: maybe he means it would be a shame if he had because his french isn't perfect
Apr 08 20:57:16 <bumbl> or ...
Apr 08 20:57:24 * onen is proud of being French (please, no spanking)
Apr 08 20:57:28 <stefan_schmidt_> onen: Will put it in tomorrow
Apr 08 20:57:31 <fredrin> onen: does it prevent suspend? 
Apr 08 20:57:49 <onen> dent: yes from fr, why?
Apr 08 20:58:26 <dent> onen: just curious
Apr 08 20:58:30 * dent is always curious
Apr 08 20:58:45 <onen> Ainulindale: by the way, hope we car pool to FSOSHRUDCON ;-)
Apr 08 20:59:05 <Ainulindale> I don't know if I'll go. I want to annoy ptitjes
Apr 08 20:59:12 <Ainulindale> So I'll tell him later on if I'll go or not
Apr 08 20:59:25 <Ainulindale> That way he'll write my speech
Apr 08 20:59:31 <Ainulindale> And I'll be doing nothing
Apr 08 20:59:37 <Ainulindale> I love it that way
Apr 08 21:00:02 <onen> stefan_schmidt_: great, no hurry from my side, the bug fix does not correct sth with logs garbage, but prevent from logging some good data.
Apr 08 21:00:34 <onen> Ainulindale: :-D
Apr 08 21:00:50 <tmzt> onen: thanks to om/fso/shr the htc devices have a chance
Apr 08 21:01:48 <onen> tmzt: hope this reaches a point where it actually works, I am following the further developments...
Apr 08 21:05:28 <onen> tmzt: if some audio libraries are in user space as binary blog, is there no risk of being able to use modem (calls) but have no sound?
Apr 08 21:06:37 <tmzt> there are rpc calls on the windows mobile devices
Apr 08 21:06:50 <tmzt> to switch audio routing
Apr 08 21:09:45 <onen> tmzt: well I am not familiar with all of these :-( but I have seen on xda developpers, that on HTC blackstone is running android, calls are ok, but no sound! http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065&package_id=310952
Apr 08 21:10:10 * onen hits me for wrong copy/paste
Apr 08 21:10:20 <onen> http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BlackstoneLinux
Apr 08 21:11:41 <onen> fredrin: hope you will enjoy the app. let me know if you have any comment
Apr 08 21:11:57 <fredrin> onen: sure man, i'll be testing it today
Apr 08 21:12:03 <fredrin> look out for data from Uruguay 
Apr 08 21:12:04 <onen> Ainulindale: I will keep the secret to let ptitjes do the job, don't worry ;-)
Apr 08 21:12:38 <onen> good night everyone
Apr 08 21:13:15 <fredrin> I'll use it as an excuse to get out of the house now :D
Apr 08 21:13:20 <onen> ptitjes: Velizy... well that is not far from my home :-)
Apr 08 21:13:24 <fredrin> *testing*
Apr 08 21:13:42 <Ainulindale> onen: he doesn't live there
Apr 08 21:13:49 <Ainulindale> He lives at Villeuneuve la Garenne
Apr 08 21:13:58 <Ainulindale> (I, on the other hand, work at Vélizy)
Apr 08 21:14:32 <onen> Ainulindale: hé hé, a game for me would be to try to guess for what company, there are so many there ;-)
Apr 08 21:15:04 <Ainulindale> Well guessing is easy when you know my name and know how to use google
Apr 08 21:16:13 <onen> Ainulindale: wow, that is a long way from home :-(
Apr 08 21:16:20 <ptitjes> what stupid things you guys are saying...
Apr 08 21:16:46 <onen> ptitjes: I didn't, it's Ainulindale!
Apr 08 21:16:49 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: do not know whether you answered me about my openssl-native problems
Apr 08 21:16:56 <onen> ptijes: it's all *his* fault
Apr 08 21:16:58 <ptitjes> onen: balance :D
Apr 08 21:17:36 <onen> ptitjes: ;-)
Apr 08 21:17:59 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I didn't, bcause I have no idea about what you're talking about, as ever
Apr 08 21:18:02 <Ainulindale> +e
Apr 08 21:18:53 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: when did you build for the last time ? http://pastebin.com/m61de5070
Apr 08 21:19:25 <Ainulindale> yesterday
Apr 08 21:19:52 <Ainulindale> Information not available for target 'i386-darwin'
Apr 08 21:20:00 <Ainulindale> When did you read for the last time? =)
Apr 08 21:20:13 <Ainulindale> Plus the sato thing is known
Apr 08 21:20:14 <onen> Ainulindale: ok, I know how to use google ;-) found it. I know what you did last summer!
Apr 08 21:20:34 <Ainulindale> onen: Last summer I bought a GTA02.
Apr 08 21:20:43 <Ainulindale> And launched SHR with a bunch of other people
Apr 08 21:21:09 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so what I'm supposed to do ? And why this doesn't parse ?
Apr 08 21:21:35 <onen> ok guys, this time I really go for rest
Apr 08 21:21:37 <onen> good night
Apr 08 21:21:56 <ptitjes> ciao onen
Apr 08 21:22:27 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: because there is an error
Apr 08 21:22:30 <Ainulindale> Because your target sucks
Apr 08 21:22:33 <Ainulindale> Because mac sucks
Apr 08 21:23:02 <Ainulindale> I have no idea about how you should build OE on a mac
Apr 08 21:23:10 <Ainulindale> So I'll say : RTFM
Apr 08 21:23:32 <DocScrutinizer> WTFM
Apr 08 21:23:43 <Ainulindale> :-)
Apr 08 21:23:53 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: I was thinking just the same thing
Apr 08 21:29:51 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: could you tell in what way my host arch could make the parsing any different ?
Apr 08 21:30:03 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: second I'm on Gentoo
Apr 08 21:30:22 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so thank you for your help
Apr 08 21:32:19 <DocScrutinizer> ptitjes|walk: enjoy :-)
Apr 08 22:17:35 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r8ac2650299b6 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
Apr 08 22:17:35 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: fsodevice: kernel26_display: overhaul
Apr 08 22:17:35 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: * fix API semantics (we're using percentages, not absolute values)
Apr 08 22:17:35 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: * get rid of display-helpers and use Posix.ioctl instead
Apr 08 22:27:00 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r879d566b19b0 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/kernel26_leds/plugin.vala: fsodevice: kernel26_leds: use FsoFramework.AbstractObject for config and logging setup
Apr 08 22:37:17 <ptitjes> what is the fix for the sato-icon-theme.inc missing ?
Apr 08 22:39:01 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: could you tell me please ?
Apr 08 22:41:11 <mwester> use 1.8.12 bitbake.
Apr 08 22:42:16 <mwester> Somebody needs to fix the shr Makefile so that it selects the bitbake version that is tagged 1.8.12, instead of the most recent version on the 1.8 branch...
Apr 08 22:55:31 <ptitjes> mwester: thanks for your answer. (I think you were answering me...) as I have no idea how to "use 1.8.12 bitbake", I removed the require in the .inc
Apr 08 22:56:57 <ptitjes> mwester: btw what does mean "env: wget: No such file or directory" ? I have wget... I also get some "sh: git: command not found" but I also have git...
Apr 08 22:59:58 <DocScrutinizer> ptitjes: maybe wrong PATH?
Apr 08 23:00:49 <ptitjes> which wget
Apr 08 23:01:12 <ptitjes> gives /Users/didier/Gentoo/usr/bin/wget
Apr 08 23:01:22 <ptitjes> in the same shell
Apr 08 23:01:34 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: hello btw
Apr 08 23:01:40 <DocScrutinizer> HI
Apr 08 23:02:44 <DocScrutinizer> I just insert a 'wget --help' or whatever a line before script fails
Apr 08 23:03:07 <DocScrutinizer> if I'm in doubt about things like that
Apr 08 23:03:31 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: however I have no idea where that call to wget can be... :(
Apr 08 23:03:55 * ptitjes begins to have nightmares about oe!
Apr 08 23:04:45 <DocScrutinizer> trace the script? (sth like 'set -v -x -y')
Apr 08 23:05:27 <ptitjes> I added --verbose but this does not add many information
Apr 08 23:05:31 <DocScrutinizer> check set as I don't remember atm
Apr 08 23:06:33 <ptitjes> ho! set is a shell command ??
Apr 08 23:07:18 <DocScrutinizer> #VERBOSE=true; DEBUG=true; set -v -x
Apr 08 23:07:32 <DocScrutinizer> fro one of my scripts
Apr 08 23:08:09 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: where should I put that ?
Apr 08 23:08:14 <DocScrutinizer> one of the first 10 lines in script
Apr 08 23:08:43 <DocScrutinizer> best 2. line, after shebang
Apr 08 23:09:12 <ptitjes> hum shebang ?
Apr 08 23:09:53 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: does this works for python scripts too ?
Apr 08 23:10:05 <DocScrutinizer> don't think so
Apr 08 23:10:08 <ptitjes> (I believe the answer is no but I ask it anyway)
Apr 08 23:10:11 <ptitjes> :D
Apr 08 23:11:21 <DocScrutinizer> anyway make (and bitbake) is no python-script, no?
Apr 08 23:11:39 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: bitbake is python
Apr 08 23:11:50 <DocScrutinizer> outch
Apr 08 23:11:58 <ptitjes> as you say
Apr 08 23:14:36 <ptitjes> but why should I have to do that stuff to develop for SHR ??
Apr 08 23:15:46 <ptitjes> that is plain stupid!! this is a distro thing!
Apr 08 23:19:49 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: could you help me ?
Apr 08 23:20:18 <ptitjes> I have no idea how to debug this out...
Apr 08 23:23:37 <dent> ptitjes: what's your distro?
Apr 08 23:24:16 <ptitjes> dent: the one on my desktop or on my target ?
Apr 08 23:24:47 <dent> well, I suppose you don't run OE on the FR (now, that would be quest! :) - so, desktop
Apr 08 23:26:34 <ptitjes> héhéhé :)
Apr 08 23:26:48 <ptitjes> Gentoo-Prefix above MacOS X
Apr 08 23:27:10 <mwester> Oh good grief!
Apr 08 23:27:10 <dent> huh... then I won't offer any tips 8-O
Apr 08 23:27:17 <mwester> Good luck, trail-blazer!
Apr 08 23:27:33 <dent> I used to be OE-scared so much I was running it inside a debian chroot
Apr 08 23:27:34 <ptitjes> oh men!
Apr 08 23:27:45 <dent> but now, somehow, it works ok in my gentoo "headless desktop"
Apr 08 23:27:46 <mwester> you would be insane to not have an ordinary i386 running a real distro ( :p ) with which to compare.
Apr 08 23:27:48 <ptitjes> could you explain me why this should behave differently ?
Apr 08 23:27:54 <mwester> otherwise debugging that will be impossible.
Apr 08 23:27:58 <ptitjes> python is python, bash is bash, make is make
Apr 08 23:28:01 <mwester> Why?
Apr 08 23:28:23 <mwester> Yeah, right.  "bash is bash" - sure.
Apr 08 23:28:29 <mwester> but your .bashrc is not.
Apr 08 23:28:44 <mwester> Nor are the defaults compiled into your distro
Apr 08 23:29:14 <ptitjes> dent: my gentoo prefix is kindof a gentoo headless
Apr 08 23:29:18 <mwester> and who knows what versions of what host tools you may have -- they may be too new, too old, or they may be compiled with options or without options that OE expects...
Apr 08 23:29:48 <ptitjes> mwester: but then oe should complain and not go over it silently ?
Apr 08 23:29:54 <mwester> And btw, bash is not always bash -- one of the horrors out there is the stupid distro that says bash == dash.
Apr 08 23:29:59 <mwester> which breaks all sorts of things.
Apr 08 23:30:12 <mwester> OE complains about much, but it cannot possibly test everything.
Apr 08 23:30:40 <mwester> In your case, I think it is telling  you that when it attempts to execute the host "env wget" command, it fails.
Apr 08 23:30:47 <mwester> What could be more clear about that?
Apr 08 23:31:05 <mwester> I'm betting that you do not have wget installed, or at least it is not installed in a standard location.
Apr 08 23:31:15 <ptitjes> didier@didier-villevaloiss-macbook-pro /Volumes/Data/Work/SHR/shr-unstable $ env wget
Apr 08 23:31:15 <ptitjes> wget: missing URL
Apr 08 23:31:15 <ptitjes> Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]...
Apr 08 23:31:15 <ptitjes> Try `wget --help' for more options.
Apr 08 23:31:32 <mwester> Right -- for you with all your env vars and env set.
Apr 08 23:31:39 <mwester> You are aware that OE resets that?
Apr 08 23:32:13 <mwester> (too many failures caused by people with bad stuff set in their envs, so the fix was to unset everything but a small handful of vars)
Apr 08 23:32:25 <ptitjes> sorry did not understand "Right -- for you with all your env vars and env set."
Apr 08 23:33:02 <ptitjes> mwester: so what are the variables oe keeps ?
Apr 08 23:33:04 <mwester> And then, inside a recipe, the paths are all reset once again, because it must prefer the commands installed in the staging area over the host commands, (that goes for libraries as well).
Apr 08 23:33:23 <mwester> ptitjes:  all documented in the various OE docs online, don't recall the URL.
Apr 08 23:34:43 <ptitjes> mwester: it resets that when we do . ./setup-env right ?
Apr 08 23:34:55 <mwester> No, bitbake does it.
Apr 08 23:34:57 <ptitjes> mwester: then my PATH is keeped right ?
Apr 08 23:35:09 <ptitjes> s/keeped/kept/
Apr 08 23:35:11 <bzzbot> ptitjes meant: mwester: then my PATH is kept right ?
Apr 08 23:35:45 <mwester> I can't say if your PATH is kept.
Apr 08 23:37:07 <mwester> If you really want to get OE working with MacOS, then you'll need to spend some time with a standard distro to get it working, and learn how OE and bitbake work internally -- then you will probably have no trouble finding where OE is making assumptions that are not true for MacOS or for your install.
Apr 08 23:37:30 <ptitjes> mwester: in fact, I don't want at all.
Apr 08 23:37:33 <mwester> I don't know Macs, so I am of little help, I'm afraid.
Apr 08 23:37:42 <ptitjes> mwester: I just want to continue my developments
Apr 08 23:38:00 <ptitjes> mwester: I just keep thinking that oe makes me lose time
Apr 08 23:38:42 <mwester> Please!  show us another way; I'll switch in an instant if its better!
Apr 08 23:39:33 <ptitjes> mwester: I just say I should not have to bother with that. That is a work for the distro manager not for the application people.
Apr 08 23:40:01 <ptitjes> mwester: I feel forced to use that
Apr 09 00:09:15 <mwester> max_posedon:  libframeworkd-phonegui-efl, ru.po has a syntax error in the most recent commit, and for some reason I seem to recall that you may be involved in that set of sources?
Apr 09 00:21:46 <ptitjes|bed> night all
Apr 09 00:31:51 * Dave tucks ptitjes in
Apr 09 00:35:53 * mwester takes ptitjes' freerunner out of Dave's pocket, and places it back on ptitjes' nightstand.
Apr 09 00:38:13 <Dave> :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 09 02:59:57 2009