**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 18 02:59:57 2009
Apr 18 04:49:06 <mwester> Ainulindale:  You silly git administrator -- you forgot to give me permissions to shr-makefile!
Apr 18 04:49:35 <mwester> So you have to fix it yourself I guess -- please fix the auto.conf file for the testing branch; it still refers to "packages" in the BBCLASS
Apr 18 04:50:12 <mwester> Also, can you move the rm_work line from auto.conf to local.conf; that should be a developer-choice option.
Apr 18 07:33:43 <bumbl> good morning folks
Apr 18 08:07:02 <budfive> mickey|lunch: there?
Apr 18 08:08:58 <Ainulindale> mwester: testing packages -> recipes was commited 20hours ago
Apr 18 08:10:11 <CIA-75> SHR: 03ainulindale 07shr-makefile * r843fe7f1f696 10/conf/site.testing.conf: Forgot s/packages/recipes/ after another commit. Apologies, mwester :-)
Apr 18 08:23:25 <morphis> heyho
Apr 18 08:23:40 <neobaka> hi
Apr 18 08:27:13 <bumbl> hi morphis 
Apr 18 08:29:21 <morphis> hey bumbl
Apr 18 08:30:13 <bumbl> how do you do
Apr 18 08:32:40 <neobaka> hey, what is the reason the OSS community at the moment tends to break stuff instead of fixing it? Thake KDE4 as an example
Apr 18 08:34:10 <neobaka> or yesterdays SHR kernel regression ;)
Apr 18 08:38:00 <morphis> bumbl: I am currently sitting in a seminar about bwl and pms ... it's the third time I hear this stuff 
Apr 18 08:38:10 <gurugentoo> neobaka: consider that the versions that were working still work
Apr 18 08:38:56 <neobaka> I will atm try an older kernel. but at first, it didn't allow USB-networking (strange)
Apr 18 08:39:32 <neobaka> so "welcome back WSOD" :(
Apr 18 08:40:20 <gurugentoo> I'm really glad I live in a warm climate because the WSOD only happens when it's cold out for me
Apr 18 08:40:43 <gurugentoo> it was unusable on a ski trip
Apr 18 08:40:53 <neobaka> wsod happens always here. i'm inside and it's warm
Apr 18 08:45:19 <neobaka> ...still no usb :((
Apr 18 08:54:59 <neobaka> so. last kernel to flash and then I'll kill that "we are more stable" SHR 
Apr 18 08:59:18 <neobaka> that's... argh ;(
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 18 09:02:14 2009
Apr 18 09:10:02 <Ainulindale> neobaka?
Apr 18 09:10:06 <neobaka> yup
Apr 18 09:10:14 <Ainulindale> "10:55 < neobaka> so. last kernel to flash and then I'll kill that "we are more stable" SHR 
Apr 18 09:10:17 <Ainulindale> "
Apr 18 09:10:19 <Ainulindale> ?
Apr 18 09:10:34 <Ainulindale> Which version were you using?
Apr 18 09:10:47 <Ainulindale> We patched the init scripts specifically to handle usb networking at first boot
Apr 18 09:10:54 <Ainulindale> Plus we don't fix the kernel revisions, openmoko does
Apr 18 09:11:11 <neobaka> ah, good to know the kernel part
Apr 18 09:11:14 <Ainulindale> So, testing or unstable?
Apr 18 09:11:15 <neobaka> but...
Apr 18 09:11:31 <neobaka> in unstable, ni USB-networking with 2.6.28
Apr 18 09:11:31 <Ainulindale> Did you upgrade or did you flash?
Apr 18 09:11:42 <neobaka> fresh flash
Apr 18 09:11:46 <Ainulindale> Well as we didn't update unstable for three days and latest kernel is 2.6.29
Apr 18 09:11:50 <Ainulindale> you're wrong
Apr 18 09:12:02 <Ainulindale> (check opkg)
Apr 18 09:12:07 <Ainulindale> (name of the package is confuse)
Apr 18 09:12:14 <Ainulindale> (or uname -a for that matter)
Apr 18 09:12:15 <neobaka> i'm wrong with wha?
Apr 18 09:12:20 <Ainulindale> here I have no problem with usb networking
Apr 18 09:12:28 <Ainulindale> neobaka: you should use testing, because we're going to break unstablre
Apr 18 09:12:29 <Ainulindale> -r
Apr 18 09:12:35 <gurugentoo> also working for me
Apr 18 09:12:38 <Ainulindale> and on testing everything is working properly
Apr 18 09:12:42 <Ainulindale> I made sure of that.
Apr 18 09:13:07 <neobaka> uImage-2.6.28-oe1+gitr119792+81c61a7d1abb03aecd13f5395aba355e996a1641-r3.2-om-gta02.bin no USB
Apr 18 09:13:12 <Ainulindale> neobaka: uname -a
Apr 18 09:13:14 <Ainulindale> Again
Apr 18 09:13:16 <Ainulindale> Name of the package is confuse
Apr 18 09:13:36 <neobaka> flashed with openmoko-shr-lite-image-glibc-ipk--20090416-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2
Apr 18 09:13:46 <Ainulindale> It's not latest at all.
Apr 18 09:13:51 <neobaka> directly from the repo
Apr 18 09:13:58 <Ainulindale> It's not even latest kernel
Apr 18 09:14:10 <neobaka> as i said, latest kernel os WSOD
Apr 18 09:14:19 <Ainulindale> Try testing, again.
Apr 18 09:14:22 <neobaka> and therefore regression and totally unusable
Apr 18 09:14:46 <Ainulindale> I'll repeat myself again
Apr 18 09:14:50 <Ainulindale> => TESTING <=
Apr 18 09:15:03 <Ainulindale> Plus
Apr 18 09:15:14 <Ainulindale> Latest kernel is exactly the same, albeit package differently
Apr 18 09:15:27 <Ainulindale> +d
Apr 18 09:15:36 <Ainulindale> (same revision)
Apr 18 09:15:54 <Ainulindale> Try testing, and then if you have any problem, please bug report on trac.shr-project.org
Apr 18 09:15:55 <neobaka> Ainulindale: thosa packages ARE TESTING
Apr 18 09:16:00 <Ainulindale> neobaka: you told me usntable.
Apr 18 09:16:06 <Ainulindale> 11:11 < neobaka> in unstable, ni USB-networking with 2.6.28
Apr 18 09:16:12 <Ainulindale> (damn keyboard)
Apr 18 09:16:23 <neobaka> (same keyboard here M) )
Apr 18 09:16:58 <Ainulindale> neobaka: Try testing, flash it fresh with latest kernel, then if you have any problem please bug report I'll be there to handle the case
Apr 18 09:17:07 <neobaka> so that's my mistake with testing, but i changed after the blog advise
Apr 18 09:17:21 <Ainulindale> Without knowing for sure that you're using the specific set of version I fixed
Apr 18 09:17:28 <Ainulindale> I'm not sure about what could cause your issue
Apr 18 09:17:31 <Ainulindale> So please try testing
Apr 18 09:17:42 <neobaka> Ainulindale: that's obviousely the wron place if you don't do kernel compiling
Apr 18 09:17:46 <Ainulindale> I had no problem with it personally apart from the failing auto suspend problem which is a frameworkd issue
Apr 18 09:17:54 <Ainulindale> neobaka: we compile the kernel.
Apr 18 09:18:09 <Ainulindale> We just don't set the revision per se
Apr 18 09:18:14 <Ainulindale> We use the fso onbe
Apr 18 09:18:15 <Ainulindale> -nb
Apr 18 09:18:19 <Ainulindale> (damn)
Apr 18 09:18:28 <Ainulindale> I can update it, but I have to be sure that there's a problem
Apr 18 09:18:33 <Ainulindale> And to do that I need proof =)
Apr 18 09:18:41 <Ainulindale> You're my first report of no USB
Apr 18 09:18:44 <neobaka> the? I didn't get that
Apr 18 09:18:56 <Ainulindale> As everyone here was happy that mwester fixed USB on first boot
Apr 18 09:19:00 <Ainulindale> So to be sure about your issue
Apr 18 09:19:07 <Ainulindale> Boot into testing latest (latest kernel)
Apr 18 09:19:11 <Ainulindale> try usb
Apr 18 09:19:14 <Ainulindale> if it doesn't work
Apr 18 09:19:15 <neobaka> Ainulindale: to make it clear again; 2.6.29 is WSOD; 2.6.28 is no USB
Apr 18 09:19:18 <Ainulindale> dmesg > dmesg.log
Apr 18 09:19:28 <Ainulindale> then depmod -a plus reboot
Apr 18 09:19:40 <Ainulindale> Yeah I got that, but please try testing latest no matter what.
Apr 18 09:19:42 <max_posedon> neobaka, uname -a || ls /lib/modules
Apr 18 09:19:52 <Ainulindale> And if you have an issue with your kernel
Apr 18 09:19:57 <Ainulindale> I'll try to compile an older one.
Apr 18 09:20:00 <Ainulindale> Or newer one
Apr 18 09:20:00 <max_posedon> Are you sure that they are for same kernel?
Apr 18 09:21:05 <neobaka> max_posedon: how am I supposed to enter that without USB in less than... say... 10min? ;))
Apr 18 09:21:40 <max_posedon> from vala-terminal?
Apr 18 09:21:51 <Ainulindale> neobaka: we can't help if you're not willing to spend some of your time helping us to diagnose the issue
Apr 18 09:21:53 <max_posedon> near 30sec is enough
Apr 18 09:22:10 <neobaka> max_posedon: I was joking about the on-screen-keyboard
Apr 18 09:22:11 <max_posedon> I just think that kernel modules and kernel version mistmatched
Apr 18 09:22:50 <max_posedon> I like it, not the best, but better than T9 for smses.
Apr 18 09:23:38 <Ainulindale> max_posedon: I'll leave you at helping him my girlfriend is complaining :-)
Apr 18 09:24:12 <max_posedon> fine, I just think that I know reason
Apr 18 09:24:26 <max_posedon> many people when begin reflash kernels forgets about modules
Apr 18 09:24:54 <neobaka> max_posedon: you were exactly right... missing modules 
Apr 18 09:25:05 <neobaka> i.e. wrong modules
Apr 18 09:25:09 <max_posedon> ta-da!)
Apr 18 09:25:34 <neobaka> so that solves that (i hope). and who to bug with the WSOD again?
Apr 18 09:26:10 <max_posedon> I'm sorry, I don't know about what WSDO bug all speak about
Apr 18 09:27:32 <neobaka> um.. max? how would you install the moduled if you wouldn't have an sd-card? theoretically speaking?
Apr 18 09:29:18 <max_posedon> hm... I don't know, wifi on your phone also doesn't work
Apr 18 09:29:33 <max_posedon> so just flash kernel and rootfs from shr-project
Apr 18 09:30:02 <max_posedon> and do opkg update && opkg upgrade
Apr 18 09:30:12 <max_posedon> [shr-testing]
Apr 18 09:30:16 <neobaka> then break all the modules and flash the older kernel?
Apr 18 09:30:37 <max_posedon> then
Apr 18 09:30:52 <max_posedon> download modules *for kernel* that yoi will flasg
Apr 18 09:31:13 <max_posedon> modules-version pack, shr provide them
Apr 18 09:31:22 <max_posedon> and put them to lib/modules
Apr 18 09:31:37 <max_posedon> then you can flash any of this 2(3,4?) kernels
Apr 18 09:31:45 <max_posedon> and they will work
Apr 18 09:32:11 <max_posedon> 2rd variant, compile your own kernel
Apr 18 09:32:14 <neobaka> ah okay, I forgot that you can have several module folders (stupid me)
Apr 18 09:32:25 <max_posedon> and put all important stuff build-in
Apr 18 09:32:58 <max_posedon> but I suggest just test status after opkg update ; upgrade
Apr 18 09:33:09 <max_posedon> yout problem might be fixed already
Apr 18 09:33:19 <neobaka> the only problem with "self-compile" is that I have no idea which patch fixes the "white-screen-of-death"
Apr 18 09:33:46 <neobaka> as i said, with 2.6.29, there is a regression, the wsod reappeared
Apr 18 09:35:35 <neobaka> max, one question: opkg upgrade cannot replace the kernel, can it?
Apr 18 09:36:21 <max_posedon> can
Apr 18 09:36:32 <max_posedon> and will, but don't afraid of this
Apr 18 09:36:56 <max_posedon> because it also updates all modules before
Apr 18 09:37:51 <neobaka> oh. just to make sure: where do i block packages from being upgraded? (as i don't expect the wsod to be fixes tomorrow). there is a file but i cant remember
Apr 18 09:38:14 <max_posedon> I don't know
Apr 18 09:38:25 <max_posedon> but why you want it?
Apr 18 09:38:32 <neobaka> well nevermind, i will look it up
Apr 18 09:38:38 <max_posedon> it will upgrade *his* kernel, and *his* modules
Apr 18 09:38:49 <max_posedon> it won't update modules, which you put manullay
Apr 18 09:38:55 <max_posedon> *manyally&
Apr 18 09:39:35 <neobaka> because.. then i had to reflash the old kernel after opkg upgrade?
Apr 18 09:39:57 <max_posedon> I don't think that it is bad
Apr 18 09:40:12 <max_posedon> at least you will be able test, is bug fixed in new kernel
Apr 18 09:40:18 <max_posedon> )
Apr 18 09:40:25 <neobaka> thats true
Apr 18 09:40:48 <neobaka> ...how many flash cycles can the samsung do? *fg*
Apr 18 09:41:30 <raster> neobaka: ummm probably a few hundred thousand at least - if not 1 million or so
Apr 18 09:41:51 <neobaka> i bet not. those are figures for eeprom
Apr 18 09:42:14 <raster> those are normal rewrite cycles for nand these days
Apr 18 09:42:43 <max_posedon> and even if it will be die, you always has microsd
Apr 18 09:42:58 <neobaka> are not. i work with them. you get the number because of defect management, which doesnt help if you flash the whole area
Apr 18 09:43:24 <raster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
Apr 18 09:43:27 <raster> i work with them too
Apr 18 09:44:02 <raster> # SLC NAND Flash is typically rated at about 100K cycles (Samsung OneNAND KFW4G16Q2M)
Apr 18 09:44:50 <raster> when they quote a write cycle that is a write to a nand block - each nand block shoudl withstand that many rewrites
Apr 18 09:44:57 <tmzt> bad block management is in the kernel though, right?
Apr 18 09:45:17 <raster> as a reflash of all of nand is simply a single write to all blocks (Withint he flashed region)... it should be just fine
Apr 18 09:45:21 <neobaka> ah, okay. it's because it is a multi-chip package, not embedded flash (which is worse)
Apr 18 09:45:24 <raster> tmzt: yes.
Apr 18 09:45:58 <raster> i dont know the exact nand used
Apr 18 09:46:00 <raster> on gta02
Apr 18 09:46:18 <raster> but u would bet its more cycles that u need to worry about for full reflashes
Apr 18 09:46:27 <raster> what u need to worry about ius live modifications
Apr 18 09:46:37 <raster> jffs2 shoudl spread those over many blocks
Apr 18 09:46:49 <raster> but doing silly things like using ext2 on nand is going to kill it fast
Apr 18 09:46:59 <raster> i worked on such a web tablet once for toshiba
Apr 18 09:47:01 <neobaka> K5D1G13ACA-D075" Multi-Chip Package MEMORY
Apr 18 09:47:19 <raster> during development we had ext2 on flash (this was back in like 2001/2002)
Apr 18 09:47:24 <neobaka> it is called in the datasheet
Apr 18 09:47:59 <raster> and ext2 of course will rewrite specific blocks.. a LOT. the flash managed to survive about 4 months of development before it spat the dummy
Apr 18 09:48:00 <tmzt> have you looked at yaffs2, raster?
Apr 18 09:48:13 <raster> and that was back in the days when nand was more like 5-10k cycles before barfing
Apr 18 09:48:23 <raster> nand has moved on since then
Apr 18 09:48:39 <raster> tmzt: i onl;y know of it. i know its a non-compressed "jffs2"
Apr 18 09:48:50 <raster> beyond that - know nothing
Apr 18 09:48:59 <neobaka> raster: embedded flash still is at 10k cycles, believe me. it is at infineon and at renesas and others too
Apr 18 09:49:24 <tmzt> it has integrated badblock management so it works on mtd like jffs2
Apr 18 09:49:33 <raster> i personally have not really cared too much about flash filesystems of late as i'm a more recently leaning to the idea of rootfs etc. on SD. use flash only to keep uboot and a rescue os on. run the real day-to-day os off sd
Apr 18 09:49:36 <tmzt> and google is using it in g1
Apr 18 09:49:44 <raster> but dont do it on gta02 - as its sd card setup sucks. do it on a good platform
Apr 18 09:49:45 <raster> :)
Apr 18 09:49:46 <tmzt> and that's all I know
Apr 18 09:49:53 <neobaka> the problem is that the manufacturing process is optimized for the CPU, not the flash
Apr 18 09:50:21 <raster> neobaka: i've mostly worked with onenand recently...
Apr 18 09:51:21 <neobaka> and the point we all mustn't forget is that 100k cycles and 10years retention never are at the same time. it is either/or
Apr 18 09:51:43 <raster> sure
Apr 18 09:51:45 <raster> but its a phone
Apr 18 09:52:04 <neobaka> yeah, in 5years it is a brick ^^
Apr 18 09:52:06 <raster> if the device survives more than 12 months... its beaten the average,
Apr 18 09:52:51 <raster> chances are betwene now and 10 years it goes into a toilet, gets run over by a large vehicle or otherwise drops from a good height enough to kill it off :)
Apr 18 09:53:03 <neobaka> 12months? i think gta03 wont be here in 12months -.-
Apr 18 09:53:32 <raster> gta03 wont be here. om has ceased development on it
Apr 18 09:53:42 <raster> and of course let all their linux staff go
Apr 18 09:54:41 <tmzt> have you seen the new android tablet on engadget?
Apr 18 09:54:54 <neobaka> I thought they need them for "Project B"e here never??
Apr 18 09:55:16 <raster> project b is neither a phone, nor comms device - nor does it run or have anyting to do with linux
Apr 18 09:55:27 <raster> despite what om says they only "suspended" gta032
Apr 18 09:55:33 <raster> if u fire all youre software linux staff
Apr 18 09:55:41 <tmzt> and palm suspended the foleo
Apr 18 09:55:44 <raster> u just lost your ability to verify any hw u make works with linux
Apr 18 09:56:11 <neobaka> yes i know. and i wondered about the pfrasing "suspend the work" the same you did
Apr 18 09:56:32 <raster> suspended products in companies that KEEP all their staff (and just reassign them to other things) are 90% dead. they almost never come back from cancellation
Apr 18 09:56:42 <raster> if you ALSO let go the staff working on it
Apr 18 09:56:51 <raster> its 99.999% dead
Apr 18 09:57:08 <neobaka> but i supposed the mp3 player gps whatever project b would still make use of the linux work OM invested...
Apr 18 09:57:33 <raster> neobaka:  no it doesnt
Apr 18 09:57:41 <raster> as i siad. it doesnt run linux. not related
Apr 18 09:57:48 <raster> they dropped their staff that work on it
Apr 18 09:57:52 <raster> kernel devs and so on.
Apr 18 09:58:11 <raster> any work that went into gta03 or gta02 is totally unrelated to project-b
Apr 18 09:58:29 <neobaka> that doesn't make to much sense, but that's not my problem
Apr 18 09:59:03 <raster> nup
Apr 18 09:59:19 <raster> it just means. 1. dont wait or hold out for gta03 - its not going to happen. thats what reality is.
Apr 18 09:59:33 <raster> 2. dont wait for project-b to be a mysterious new phone that is not gta03... as it isnt
Apr 18 09:59:41 <raster> either live with/buy gta02
Apr 18 09:59:54 <raster> or... start your own phone company to do a phone or your own
Apr 18 10:00:00 <raster> or... give up :)
Apr 18 10:00:06 <neobaka> who did actually do the HW-development? FIC?
Apr 18 10:00:07 <pwgen> *G*
Apr 18 10:00:09 <raster> (and find some other phone)
Apr 18 10:00:14 <raster> neobaka:  openmoko did
Apr 18 10:00:30 <neobaka> or is OM giong to be a HW-design house for others?
Apr 18 10:00:54 <raster> openmoko used to the the mobile phone division of fic - they did oem-style cheap featurephones. they got spun off into their own company - openmoko
Apr 18 10:01:36 <neobaka> I thought fic is still doing OEM-phones for their asian market? am i wrong?
Apr 18 10:02:32 <raster> neobaka: no. that is what op4enmoko was before it was spun off
Apr 18 10:02:38 <raster> and phone stuff @ fic stopped with that
Apr 18 10:02:41 <tmzt> http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/giiniis-movit-mini-wifi-android-tablet-hands-on/2
Apr 18 10:02:54 <neobaka> I hoped for QT to release a better greenphone, but after the QTopia/extended/whatever gor kickec too, that also will not happen 
Apr 18 10:03:35 <tmzt> I just want an open qwerty phone
Apr 18 10:04:13 <raster> neobaka: well trolltech already decided to kill the greenphone in favor of telling people to get an openmoko gta02.
Apr 18 10:04:21 <raster> they dont want to be in the hw biz
Apr 18 10:04:38 <raster> tmzt: nothing exists :( and android isnt really open.
Apr 18 10:04:49 <raster> or more specifically on my side. it's not linux.
Apr 18 10:05:10 <neobaka> my hope was, since nokia owns QT, they could take care of the developer greenphone also
Apr 18 10:05:23 <raster> and i am not in the mood to learn yet anothe language and yet another api someone else invented when all i want is to simply have the stuff and langauges i already know.. work on my phone.
Apr 18 10:06:36 <neobaka> but my impression is, they bought all the competition and will stay on their proprietary way
Apr 18 10:07:05 <tmzt> kernel has so far been provided in public git and this seems to be vast improvement over ce devices with no specifications
Apr 18 10:07:15 <tmzt> not for this device, sorry
Apr 18 10:07:49 <neobaka> i.e. make windows phones and maybe one andriod and single-chip featurephones
Apr 18 10:08:07 <tmzt> it's also not a phone, 480x272 resistive, no clue about cpu/gpu
Apr 18 10:08:36 <tmzt> msm7x00 is a single chip as are coming qsds
Apr 18 10:08:44 <tmzt> excepting rf of course
Apr 18 10:09:48 <raster> the msm is pretty popular
Apr 18 10:10:53 <tmzt> but will it replace msm65xx in cdma feautre phones?
Apr 18 10:11:11 <tmzt> and os is likely to be amss ui for now, completely closed
Apr 18 10:11:41 <tmzt> on those phones
Apr 18 10:12:26 <neobaka> you lost me there, which manufacturer is msm...?
Apr 18 10:12:36 <tmzt> qualcomm
Apr 18 10:12:36 <neobaka> ti?
Apr 18 10:13:05 <neobaka> and qualcomm has fast arm cores?
Apr 18 10:13:12 <tmzt> arm11
Apr 18 10:13:23 <tmzt> and now cortex
Apr 18 10:13:28 <tmzt> in msm8k
Apr 18 10:14:05 <tmzt> android has experimental kernel source for msm8k, so far what they have released is very similar
Apr 18 10:14:13 <neobaka> you would have to state which cortex ;) since Cortex M0 is... well... 16bit
Apr 18 10:14:29 <tmzt> m8 I think or asomething
Apr 18 10:14:41 <tmzt> that's thumb?
Apr 18 10:15:06 <neobaka> afair, the m0 can only do thumb, yes
Apr 18 10:22:14 <neobaka> um... can "tar" on SHR do gzipped archives?
Apr 18 10:22:40 <pwgen> zcat | tar -xvf - ( busybox tar )
Apr 18 10:23:10 <neobaka> tnx!
Apr 18 10:26:11 <tmzt> with the -?
Apr 18 10:26:19 <tmzt> before xvf
Apr 18 10:27:41 <neobaka> still doesnt work -.- "bad tar magic"; have i mentioned that i don't like the busybox tar?
Apr 18 10:27:57 <raster> baaaaaaaaaaaad magic
Apr 18 10:27:58 <raster> bad
Apr 18 10:28:25 <tmzt> zcat file.tgz PIPE tar xzf -
Apr 18 10:28:48 <neobaka> ah. damn
Apr 18 10:28:50 <neobaka> ^^
Apr 18 10:29:01 <neobaka> i forfot the first file
Apr 18 10:29:11 <raster> hmm there has to be a better way to sort images visually
Apr 18 10:30:56 <neobaka> more correct, i didi put the file on the wrong place. (me like Gnu tar more -.-")
Apr 18 10:40:47 <neobaka> well great... why didn't i open the tar before i copied it? the modules-2.6.28.tgz contains 2.6.29 modules only ?!? i think it's a typo -.-
Apr 18 11:06:41 <pwgen> some dbus guru here who ca tell me how i can connect with python  to an dbus endpoint without useing the dbus-daemon  ?
Apr 18 11:07:09 <TAsn> pwerken, not quite here, but #dbus
Apr 18 11:07:20 <TAsn> will probably have a guru ready for your needs.
Apr 18 11:07:21 <TAsn> ;]
Apr 18 11:07:29 <CM> Wow, latest SHR works great :)
Apr 18 11:07:47 <CM> Thanks all hardworking people 
Apr 18 11:07:51 <neobaka> CM: no WSOD?
Apr 18 11:08:03 <CM> Not yet at least, but I'm on a GTA01
Apr 18 11:08:08 <CM> using teh 2.6.24 kernel
Apr 18 11:08:16 <CM> s/teh/the/
Apr 18 11:08:16 <bzzbot> CM meant: using the 2.6.24 kernel
Apr 18 11:08:25 <neobaka> CM: an orange one?
Apr 18 11:08:29 <neobaka> *_*
Apr 18 11:08:37 <CM> Unfortunately not
Apr 18 11:08:42 <CM> Got the old black 1973
Apr 18 11:09:27 <neobaka> i nearly got an orange one at ebay, but it was too expensive in the end
Apr 18 11:12:59 <cyberalex> hi
Apr 18 11:13:06 <neobaka> hi
Apr 18 11:13:24 <cyberalex> i'm using bitbake to compile a c program that uses elementary lib
Apr 18 11:13:43 <cyberalex> do_compile fails
Apr 18 11:14:09 <cyberalex> and in the log i can see that Eina.h file is missied
Apr 18 11:14:40 <cyberalex> but i have added eina in DEPENDS var (file.bb)
Apr 18 11:21:47 <Weiss> cyberalex: is your configure script (if it exists) finding the correct include path?
Apr 18 11:22:24 <cyberalex> i don't have a configure script
Apr 18 11:22:36 <cyberalex> only a single sourcefile
Apr 18 11:22:45 <cyberalex> it is an helloworld in elementary
Apr 18 11:25:02 <ptitjes> good morning everybody
Apr 18 11:25:09 <cyberalex> i have added libeina instead of eina in DEPENDS and now it seems to install other stuff
Apr 18 11:25:17 <cyberalex> hi
Apr 18 11:29:00 <neobaka> oh no. second typo -.-
Apr 18 11:29:32 <ptitjes> does someone know the IRC name of Leonti Bielski ?
Apr 18 11:32:13 <neobaka> if there is someone reading who can write on http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/ : the modules-2.6.28-oe1+gitr119 have a typo, they should be named 2.6.29 instead as they contain 2.6.29 modules
Apr 18 11:32:48 <neobaka> i fell for that the second time now -.-
Apr 18 11:33:17 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: hello
Apr 18 11:33:49 <Ainulindale> neobaka: that's known, and I told you that earlier, the name of the package is confuse.
Apr 18 11:33:58 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: Can't talk too much, cooking.
Apr 18 11:34:03 <ptitjes> ok
Apr 18 11:34:09 <ptitjes> how are you ?
Apr 18 11:34:17 <neobaka> aha, now i know what exactly you tried to tell me ^^
Apr 18 11:34:20 <ptitjes> was just bipping you for neobaka's pb
Apr 18 11:34:43 <Ainulindale> neobaka: That's upstream, we could correct that, but I won't, as it's nytowl's job.
Apr 18 11:34:46 <Ainulindale> Anyway, off to my fish.
Apr 18 11:34:54 <ptitjes> bon ap.
Apr 18 11:35:10 <neobaka> yes, bon appetite
Apr 18 11:35:25 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: et bonjour à G
Apr 18 11:35:39 <neobaka> (cost me 2 times 30min to download that stuff -.-)
Apr 18 11:36:50 <neobaka> isdn suxx
Apr 18 11:37:11 <sicu> that it does ;p
Apr 18 11:38:19 <neobaka> and i was at my providers office saying "I can has big internets?" and he said no -.-
Apr 18 11:38:29 <sicu> include a forced disconnect/reconnect every 3 hrs, and it's perfect =p
Apr 18 11:38:54 <sicu> yeh, had the same for 3 years, until i finally moved =]
Apr 18 11:39:04 <neobaka> no, at least i _never_ get forced disconnects :D
Apr 18 11:40:33 <sicu> so it's not all bad =]
Apr 18 11:40:46 <neobaka> what really bugs me is that all neighbours in the house have DSL from a different provider and i'm stuck in the contract 'till end of the year
Apr 18 11:41:30 <sicu> well, at least you know you can get it
Apr 18 11:42:05 <neobaka> hm... whats worse: not having it and not knowing or not having it and knowing?
Apr 18 11:42:30 <Ainulindale> neobaka: well here in Paris
Apr 18 11:42:33 <Ainulindale> No forced disconnect
Apr 18 11:42:35 <Ainulindale> Static ip
Apr 18 11:42:52 <neobaka> wow! IPv6 too?
Apr 18 11:42:52 <Ainulindale> 1,5Mbytes/s  down 200Kbytes/s up
Apr 18 11:42:55 <Ainulindale> Yep
Apr 18 11:43:07 <sicu> I used to live in a little rural town with not enough ppl for the ISP's to justify giving us DSL :/
Apr 18 11:44:06 <neobaka> Paris, city of love and bandwidth ^^
Apr 18 11:44:12 <ptitjes> sicu: I know very little places in France where they grouped and petitioned to force the main operator to have that
Apr 18 11:44:16 <ptitjes> and they won
Apr 18 11:45:27 <sicu> ptitjes: yeh, I was trying to engage my neighbours into signing
Apr 18 11:45:32 <sicu> at least until I moved =]
Apr 18 11:45:38 <ptitjes> :D
Apr 18 11:46:08 <ptitjes> sicu: if you were leading they should have been disappointed that you moved :)
Apr 18 11:46:39 <neobaka> its so unfair when you boot-up your laptop and see al the free giveaway WiFi-rputers in the air -.-
Apr 18 11:48:26 <sicu> ptitjes: I'm sure they'll have their new leader as soon as someone gets sufficiently p'd off with their ISDN and cut-offs ;p
Apr 18 11:49:33 <neobaka> at least it's flat for both B-channels for me. I think they make minus on me *fg*
Apr 18 11:55:58 <sicu> Ainulindale: same here now, no forced disconnect and static ip, 17500kbps down 1750 kbps up
Apr 18 11:56:15 <sicu> it's a nice change =]
Apr 18 11:56:41 <sicu> btw, latest SHR works like a charm here
Apr 18 11:56:49 <sicu> and testing Qi for the first time too
Apr 18 11:56:51 <neobaka> i don't know. are there still many ISPs who have forced disconnects?
Apr 18 11:57:29 <Ainulindale> sicu: wooh nice
Apr 18 11:57:51 <sicu> neobaka: i know a few in the UK who still have them, but none here in Norway afaik
Apr 18 11:58:26 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: should we briefly go over the recipes now?
Apr 18 11:58:39 <neobaka> ah... and one good news is: there is a vagalume .ipk which is working on SHR
Apr 18 12:00:21 <max_posedon> working? you are lucky)
Apr 18 12:00:26 <neobaka> http://uploads.telefoninux.org/monto/vagalume_0.7.1-r0_armv4t.ipk
Apr 18 12:00:40 <max_posedon> ah... not default...
Apr 18 12:00:40 <neobaka> http://n2.nabble.com/vagalume-0.7.1-td2519776.html
Apr 18 12:01:02 <neobaka> but working. whatever he changed...
Apr 18 12:17:09 <ingoa> hello
Apr 18 12:17:16 <neobaka> hi
Apr 18 12:17:53 <ingoa> i need a littel bit help to untar the rootfs to my sd card
Apr 18 12:18:55 <ingoa> i have always trouble whit this tar :(
Apr 18 12:19:11 <neobaka> what is the problem?
Apr 18 12:20:58 <ingoa> neobaka:  can you tell my the right command for tar?
Apr 18 12:21:45 <neobaka> maybe, from where do you untar? your pc?
Apr 18 12:22:28 <ingoa> Yes, from PC to SDcardreader. 
Apr 18 12:23:23 <neobaka> tar -xzvf image.tar.gz normally would work
Apr 18 12:23:40 <neobaka> (if the tar is on the sd-card already=
Apr 18 12:24:33 <ingoa> ok, thanks
Apr 18 12:26:55 <ingoa> and is it possible to move it from pc to card in one command? whit a "pipe" or so?
Apr 18 12:28:21 <neobaka> yup: tar -C /mnt/moko/ -xzvf image.tar.gz
Apr 18 12:28:35 <neobaka> you can find the description here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card
Apr 18 12:29:16 <sicu> ok, seems i have no usb networking, doing dmesg > dmesg.log, and depmod -a, reboot now
Apr 18 12:29:54 <neobaka> what does -a do with depmod? (i'm depmodding myself ^^)
Apr 18 12:29:55 <sicu> Ainulindale: is booting with usb plugged in still an issue?
Apr 18 12:30:53 <sicu> neobaka: no idea, just doing what Ainulindale told you to do a little while ago ;)
Apr 18 12:31:08 <ingoa> neobaka: uff, thank you. Thats it! 
Apr 18 12:31:12 <neobaka> ah, i found out: do all modules (but should be default)
Apr 18 12:31:39 <ingoa> I read this article three time but maybe i read to fast.
Apr 18 12:32:38 <mwester> a) Do not do opkg update; opkg upgrade -- you must reflash  b) Depmod is no longer necessary with recent images  c) If  you are using Qi, your host may cause the interface to become eth<n> instead of usb0 on your HOST - recent images do this.  It is a feature.
Apr 18 12:33:34 <mwester> d) do NOT be confused by the package name; uname is the only reliable way (at present) to know what version of the kernel you have.
Apr 18 12:33:47 <mwester> e) do NOT opkg update or opkg upgrade.
Apr 18 12:33:48 <neobaka> mwester: were you here before? 2.6.29 has a regression, the WSOD reappeared
Apr 18 12:33:56 <mwester> f) do NOT opkg update, or do opkg upgrade!
Apr 18 12:34:28 <neobaka> HEUREKA! USB networking with 2.6.28 and (hopefully) no WSOD
Apr 18 12:34:49 <bumbl> mwester: yesterday i got a purple screen of death
Apr 18 12:35:02 <mwester> neobaka:  the WSOD was fixed upstream.  So either you have an OLD kernel, or you have encountered a new kernel bug (we are at the latest development kernel).  Please use uname -a and open a ticket.
Apr 18 12:35:15 <bumbl> without any known cause the display suddenly went pink-purple + blue blinking stripes
Apr 18 12:35:21 <bumbl> is this a known problem?
Apr 18 12:35:34 <sicu> mwester: so what you're saying is opkg update and opkg upgrade is nice and safe ;p
Apr 18 12:35:36 <mwester> But if you do opkg update ; opkg upgrade you may get a random kernel due to opkg naming problems.
Apr 18 12:35:48 <mwester> So who knows what kernels you actually eded up with?
Apr 18 12:36:09 <mwester> ONLY report problems (for the moment) against FRESH flashes.
Apr 18 12:36:22 <neobaka> i flashed freshly. so it should be nearly sure whick kernel i had ;)
Apr 18 12:36:25 <bumbl> sicu: yeah we should all do an opkg update/upgrade
Apr 18 12:36:46 <sicu> mwester: i did a reflash and testing Qi for the first time, so will check for option a), thanks =]
Apr 18 12:37:07 <sicu> s/a)/c)/
Apr 18 12:37:07 <bzzbot> sicu meant: mwester: i did a reflash and testing Qi for the first time, so will check for option c), thanks =]
Apr 18 12:37:18 <mwester> that's better ;)
Apr 18 12:37:22 <mwester> Fedora does that.
Apr 18 12:37:27 <mwester> (at least)
Apr 18 12:38:05 <cyberalex> i have an error configuring libeina with bitbake, gstreamer not found..
Apr 18 12:38:16 <cyberalex> but it has been instaled
Apr 18 12:38:31 <neobaka> mwester: is it necessary to reflash if we know that i used http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/uImage-2.6.29-oe10+gitr119792+81c61a7d1abb03aecd13f5395aba355e996a1641-r3.3-om-gta02.bin ?
Apr 18 12:38:54 <neobaka> i do not want to break things again -.-
Apr 18 12:39:01 <sicu> neobaka: so what did you do to get you HEUREKA?
Apr 18 12:39:03 <bumbl> mwester: is the psod bug known?
Apr 18 12:39:13 <mwester> In a nutshell, Qi will pass the _real_ usb MAC addrs from your gta02's identity partition.  This would work if g_ether was built in-kernel, but not if it was a module.  That got fixed, so if you have Qi on a gta02, now g_ether will no longer use random local MAC addrs.  Some hosts will change the network name from usb0 to eth<n> depending on local vs real MAC addr ranges being detected.
Apr 18 12:39:42 <neobaka> sicu: extract http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/modules-2.6.28-oe1+gitr34240a1c06ae36180dee695aa25bbae869b2aa26-r3-om-gta02.tgz and "depmod", then reboot
Apr 18 12:39:52 <bumbl> and how to reproduce someting random
Apr 18 12:39:53 <mwester> bumbl:  You haven't provided enough information (nor has anyone) to know if there are one PSOD bug, it if was fixed previously, or if there are many different ones.
Apr 18 12:40:27 <bumbl> mwester: as it seemed to be random reproducing is hard
Apr 18 12:40:32 <mwester> Right.
Apr 18 12:44:29 <neobaka> okay. im going to break things now. Just one question: where to file the kernel bug? SHR trac?
Apr 18 12:44:54 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r8c89f6c412c3 10/ (configure.ac src/main.vala): post-release version bump; restore original signal handler in signal handler
Apr 18 12:50:57 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * rf15ff7c58946 10/mickeyterm/ (TODO mickeyterm): mickeyterm: if called without arguments, look for fso-abyss first, then fallback to gsm0710muxd
Apr 18 12:52:28 <ptitjes> mickeyl: I answered both of the thread split on standards ML
Apr 18 12:52:32 <ptitjes> mickeyl: hello btw
Apr 18 12:54:12 <mickeyl> ptitjes: excellent thanks. we're making progress here :) will reply later today. need to buy some things for the weekend now
Apr 18 12:54:21 <mickeyl> ptitjes: good morning :)
Apr 18 12:54:41 <ptitjes> :)
Apr 18 13:20:14 <sicu> mrmoku|e`: thanks for pointing out option c)
Apr 18 13:21:00 <sicu> works like a charm now =]
Apr 18 13:21:55 <Toaster`> How does one force fast-charge mode on a current SHR-Unstable?  The wiki seems to be out of date.
Apr 18 13:23:42 <bumbl> sicu: mrmoku|e` is still @easterholidays
Apr 18 13:27:42 <tmzt> Toaster`: it seems the changed the sysfs path
Apr 18 13:28:00 <tmzt> from s3c2440-ohci to s3c-ohci
Apr 18 13:28:11 <tmzt> if that's where you make the change
Apr 18 13:29:34 <bumbl> 3
Apr 18 13:37:35 <Toaster`> tmzt: it seems not to be the right place..
Apr 18 13:37:58 <tmzt> bumbl?
Apr 18 13:38:54 <tmzt> Toaster`: if you're on linux lsusb -v -v should tell you what it's requesting
Apr 18 13:42:09 <Toaster`> tmzt: on my host or my FR?
Apr 18 13:45:12 <neobaka> kernel regression on uname -a: "Linux om-gta02 2.6.29-rc3 #1 PREEMPT Fri Apr 17 18:34:52 CEST 2009 armv4tl unknown" WSOD reappeared. Not present on "Linux om-gta02 2.6.28-rc4 #1 PREEMPT Sun Feb 8 19:53:16 CET 2009 armv4tl unknown"
Apr 18 13:45:20 <neobaka> now where to file the bug?
Apr 18 13:45:32 <lindi-> neobaka: bugs.debian.org
Apr 18 13:45:39 <lindi-> neobaka: bugs.openmoko.org sorry
Apr 18 13:45:56 <neobaka> not SHR trac?
Apr 18 13:46:14 <lindi-> neobaka: shr does not develop a kernel?
Apr 18 13:46:18 <mwester> Nope
Apr 18 13:46:29 <mwester> SHR just builds directly from upstream.
Apr 18 13:46:56 <neobaka> confirmed the bug by reflashing etc. 
Apr 18 13:47:10 <mwester> We'll see if that turns out to have been a bad decision, but its certainly what the upstream kernel devs have requested.
Apr 18 13:47:28 <mwester> neobaka:  and hopefully you have included info necessary to duplicate the problem?
Apr 18 13:47:57 <neobaka> lol, if i knew which? i'm not a kernel guy
Apr 18 13:48:13 <mwester> Ok.  Then how did you confirm the bug?
Apr 18 13:50:05 <tmzt> Toaster`: host
Apr 18 13:50:05 <neobaka> flash SHR testing images rootfs and kernel from 7-Apr-2009; let the device get into suspend, let it cool down a little bit (flashing and booting heat up much); press power on and *boom*
Apr 18 13:50:58 <neobaka> reflashing with kernel from 02-Mar-2009, same procedure with further cooling down (outside) and no prob
Apr 18 13:51:47 <lindi-> neobaka: would be great if you could do git bisect to figure out which exact commit broke this
Apr 18 13:51:54 <neobaka> since it is somewhat temperature-dependent it cannot be reproduced on any device (like known from the first appearance of the problem)
Apr 18 13:51:55 <Toaster`> tmzt: ok, done.  What should I be looking for?
Apr 18 13:52:28 <neobaka> lindi-: cannot do, i dont't have a build environment here :(
Apr 18 13:52:31 <mwester> Since I don't have a gta02 that is susceptible to the WSOD bug, I can't do much other than follow bug reports, I'm afraid. :(
Apr 18 13:52:40 <lindi-> neobaka: can't you install it?
Apr 18 13:53:15 <neobaka> i tried once... a) too stupid b) not enough drive space left for all that stuff
Apr 18 13:53:26 <lindi-> neobaka: you only need compiler
Apr 18 13:54:57 <neobaka> I do? is there a wiki-page on it? i tried the mokomakefile, and that isn't working for me
Apr 18 13:55:01 <mwester> neobaka:  only b) is a valid excuse ;)
Apr 18 13:55:30 <mwester> neobaka:  with the toolchain, and the kernel repo, you can easily build it yourself.
Apr 18 13:55:39 <lindi-> neobaka: for building kernel you don't need that much. i have added it to development_environment page at wiki
Apr 18 13:56:02 <tmzt> Toaster`: current draw
Apr 18 13:56:22 <mwester> ooh - I didn't know about that page - thanks lindi- 
Apr 18 13:56:27 <neobaka> btw: how is the bugs.openmoko.org supposed to work??
Apr 18 14:00:09 <Toaster`> tmzt: `lsusb -v -v | grep -i draw` returns nothing
Apr 18 14:06:10 <neobaka> aah... the submit button appears only when logged in oO" i wasn't aware of that
Apr 18 14:11:25 <mwester> Yeah, SPAM issues, IIRC.
Apr 18 14:12:14 <neobaka> to which "milestone" does the upstream kernel belong to?
Apr 18 14:13:05 <mwester> none, really - it's independent
Apr 18 14:13:34 <neobaka> hm.. okay i'll leave that empty
Apr 18 14:20:43 <sicu> s/mrmoku|e`/mwester/
Apr 18 14:20:47 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r35a869988bcf 10/src/gsm.vala: fixed typo in GSM.Phone.StatusChanged callback
Apr 18 14:21:26 <sicu> meh, nm bzzbot ;p
Apr 18 14:21:38 <sicu> anyways, thanks for your help mwester =]
Apr 18 14:21:43 <mwester> np
Apr 18 14:22:26 <mwester> I thought it was a cool feature -- a bit unexpected, but it should actually make NetworkManager on the host behave better.
Apr 18 14:22:52 <mwester> Since now your Freerunner will always be recognized as the same device when you plug it into the host.
Apr 18 14:23:29 <sicu> brilliant =]
Apr 18 14:25:10 <sicu> resume from suspend is noticeably quicker with Qi
Apr 18 14:26:10 <mwester> Yes, although we can make it much faster on u-boot than it is, just by removing a lot of the text that gets dumped to the slow glamo.
Apr 18 14:26:39 <PaulFertser> Arhuaco: One small question: how is TS is supposed to work in QVGA mode? Who should translate the coordinates? X-server?
Apr 18 14:26:43 <mwester> Currently all the scrolling of text on the FB is done in software in the kernel, so it is very slow on the glamo
Apr 18 14:27:04 <lindi-> PaulFertser: Xorg already does it
Apr 18 14:27:17 <sicu> mwester: ok, good to know
Apr 18 14:27:24 <PaulFertser> lindi-: ok, thanks for the info. :)
Apr 18 14:27:48 <sicu> seems one can speed up resume on Qi as well by changing to loglevel=1 quiet
Apr 18 14:28:05 <lindi-> PaulFertser: QVGA "works" but the image is in odd offset due to http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2263
Apr 18 14:28:08 <mwester> And it's a lot easier to change that with Qi than it is with uboot!
Apr 18 14:28:10 <PaulFertser> lindi-: i know
Apr 18 14:28:47 <sicu> guess I'll stick with Qi for now then =]
Apr 18 14:28:58 <mwester> If it works for you, yes
Apr 18 14:29:23 * mwester has one gta02 with qi, and one without -- for testing.
Apr 18 14:34:22 <neobaka> is there a chance that the working vagalume will be included into SHR builds or the repo?
Apr 18 14:41:23 <Arhuaco> PaulFertser: I have never thought of that. :-/
Apr 18 14:41:58 <PaulFertser> Arhuaco: now thanks to lindi- we know that some smart X.org guys have already thought about it and done the right thing :)
Apr 18 14:43:16 <Arhuaco> :-)
Apr 18 15:00:18 <Sharwin_F> hi, speaking from the FR in Barcelonas buzz fix party!
Apr 18 15:06:55 <neobaka> bye
Apr 18 15:09:31 <Azog> do you hear me? *buzz* *g*
Apr 18 15:10:13 <Sharwin_F> no. just some echooooo
Apr 18 15:12:23 <mwester> hehe!
Apr 18 15:16:40 <Gorbusch> hi
Apr 18 15:28:57 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/wp2.avi
Apr 18 15:29:01 <raster> awesome
Apr 18 15:29:08 <raster> my image sorting algorithm... works!
Apr 18 15:29:17 <raster> noice how nicely sorted images are
Apr 18 15:29:22 <raster> so similar images are together
Apr 18 15:29:22 <raster> :)
Apr 18 15:31:03 <bumbl> raster: very nice
Apr 18 15:31:41 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/img-sort2.png
Apr 18 15:31:48 <raster> and there is all of them sorted... in view
Apr 18 15:32:59 <raster> i'm rather amazed.. that with some fiddling with the image id generator, i managed to have a linear set of image id strings generated that u can sort nicelty so images of simialr color, brightness even content, get sorted together
Apr 18 15:33:24 * mwester goes to peek at raster's p0rn collection... 
Apr 18 15:33:26 <mwester> :p :D
Apr 18 15:33:32 <raster> i've been redoing the wallpaper dialog so it can fit/work on small screens - like qvga etc.
Apr 18 15:34:05 <raster> mwester: note the image sorting... how they sort nicely.. and thats not by filename :)
Apr 18 15:34:23 <mwester> Wow.  Ok, I'm impressed - I thought you sorting icon-like images; those are full-color photos.
Apr 18 15:34:38 <raster> yup
Apr 18 15:34:59 <mwester> The  prairie-dog didn't sort together, but all the other sets seem to have done so nicely.
Apr 18 15:35:03 <raster> sorted visually by actual content
Apr 18 15:35:18 <raster> whihc frankly... is the whole point of wallpapers.. u dont care about the name.. but the content
Apr 18 15:35:29 <raster> and yes - oddly enough the prairie dog didnt
Apr 18 15:35:35 <raster> sometiems odd things like that happen
Apr 18 15:35:37 <raster> they are "close"
Apr 18 15:35:39 <raster> but not together
Apr 18 15:36:14 <raster> all in all. i'm relatively happy with how it turned out
Apr 18 15:36:26 <raster> considering the incredibly small and simple amount of code that makes it work
Apr 18 15:36:27 <raster> :)
Apr 18 15:36:37 <bumbl> raster: one might argue that now it looks boring
Apr 18 15:36:42 * bumbl likes chaos
Apr 18 15:37:01 <raster> bumbl: thats why everything wobbles and slides around
Apr 18 15:37:06 <raster> to.. get interesting things back
Apr 18 15:37:13 * mwester prefers organization, and rather likes the layout
Apr 18 15:37:32 <raster> it also nicely adapts to really small or large window sizes
Apr 18 15:37:40 <raster> that was the primary point
Apr 18 15:37:41 <bumbl> raster: yeah that's nice
Apr 18 15:37:45 <raster> how to creat ea wallpaper selector
Apr 18 15:37:50 <bumbl> when can we see it on the freerunner ;)
Apr 18 15:37:52 <raster> and still have ti work well on a small screen like a gta02
Apr 18 15:37:55 <bumbl> *scnr*
Apr 18 15:38:01 <raster> and give you as much info as it can
Apr 18 15:38:09 <raster> its already in e17 in svn
Apr 18 15:38:14 <raster> its the wallpaper 2 conf module
Apr 18 15:38:19 * bumbl svn updates
Apr 18 15:38:21 <raster> u'll have to load it
Apr 18 15:38:26 <raster> i'll replace the original when its all done
Apr 18 15:38:41 <mwester> raster:  are you maintaining the e recipes in OE?
Apr 18 15:38:56 <raster> you will want to rm -rf ~/.e/e/fileman/thumbnails/*
Apr 18 15:39:09 <raster> as those will not be of use to you anymore
Apr 18 15:39:19 <raster> mwester:  i am
Apr 18 15:39:30 <raster> i pushed updates over the past few days
Apr 18 15:39:37 <raster> though the new sorting isnt there yet
Apr 18 15:39:43 <raster> i just put it in svn an hr ago
Apr 18 15:40:16 <mwester> Ok.  Just FYI, I had a build failure on an e module; it was looking for python-native but it wasn't built yet.  Looks like a dependency problem.
Apr 18 15:40:28 <raster> oooh
Apr 18 15:40:30 <mwester> (bb-number-threads cranked WAY up)
Apr 18 15:40:32 <raster> i dont touch the python stuff
Apr 18 15:40:46 <TAsn> raster, VERY SLEEK! 
Apr 18 15:40:47 <mwester> python-e-something?
Apr 18 15:40:47 <TAsn> nice!
Apr 18 15:41:07 <raster> TAsn: if you know your efl.. you can do it to :)
Apr 18 15:41:17 <TAsn> I know nothing about efl ;]
Apr 18 15:41:29 <raster> i havent been very good at really showing off efl of late
Apr 18 15:41:45 <raster> so i may as well put in some candy while i fix the dialogs
Apr 18 15:41:49 <TAsn> ;]
Apr 18 15:42:35 <bumbl> raster: TAsn used gtk for shr-pyphonelog
Apr 18 15:42:39 <bumbl> *tut* *tut*
Apr 18 15:42:41 <TAsn> shhh
Apr 18 15:42:44 <bumbl> go fix your code
Apr 18 15:42:45 <bumbl> ;)
Apr 18 15:42:46 <TAsn> bumbl, damn you!
Apr 18 15:42:47 <TAsn> ;]
Apr 18 15:42:57 <raster> bumbl: tut tut indeed! :)
Apr 18 15:43:06 <TAsn> actually, I heard (ML) that someone is finally writing a phonelog app in vala and elementary.
Apr 18 15:43:08 <raster> TAsn: :)
Apr 18 15:43:10 <TAsn> let's just hope.
Apr 18 15:43:30 <TAsn> although pyphonelog is everything I need and more (if I needed something, I wrote it...)
Apr 18 15:43:34 <TAsn> python is too slow.
Apr 18 15:43:42 <bumbl> nah
Apr 18 15:43:43 <raster> aye
Apr 18 15:43:54 <bumbl> all apps start slowly on the freerunner
Apr 18 15:43:55 <raster> especially startup times
Apr 18 15:43:58 <bumbl> once they are started
Apr 18 15:43:58 <raster> memory footprint
Apr 18 15:44:10 <bumbl> there are not that many disadvantages in my opinion
Apr 18 15:44:17 <raster> well freerunner has its own slowness issues anyway
Apr 18 15:44:20 <TAsn> raster, phonelog's memory footprint isn't that important
Apr 18 15:44:26 <TAsn> not in the phonelog
Apr 18 15:44:35 * mwester wonders if preload might help
Apr 18 15:44:36 <TAsn> it's rarely launched
Apr 18 15:44:44 <raster> bumbl: dunno. on my treo650 the python version of fso uses more ram than e17
Apr 18 15:44:45 <TAsn> mwester, I'm suggesting this for years!
Apr 18 15:44:55 <raster> and when all u have is 32m ram... it comes to a crawl
Apr 18 15:45:03 <TAsn> having those apps cache daemons running
Apr 18 15:45:19 <bumbl> that's why i would prefer a paroli/zhone/epydial like phoneapp 
Apr 18 15:45:26 <raster> mwester:  i've tested with preload before and foudn ti pretty much to not make a difference with c
Apr 18 15:45:36 <mwester> ok
Apr 18 15:45:36 <raster> mwester: at least in my tests it didnt
Apr 18 15:45:41 <raster> like maybe 5%
Apr 18 15:45:46 <raster> but that was entropy anyway
Apr 18 15:45:51 <bumbl> (all in C would be nice but not a must)
Apr 18 15:45:57 <raster> elementary supports a nice little quicklaunch trick tho
Apr 18 15:46:00 <raster> if u have slow IO
Apr 18 15:46:03 <raster> it really helps
Apr 18 15:46:03 <TAsn> bumbl, that's where vala comes along.
Apr 18 15:46:08 <mwester> at some point (after we get everything working correctly) it might be fun to see what happens if we build it all in THUMB mode.
Apr 18 15:46:13 <raster> i got start times down from 4.5 to 1sec
Apr 18 15:46:19 <raster> (when u had slow IO)
Apr 18 15:46:53 <bumbl> raster: for e itself or for the apps it launches?
Apr 18 15:47:08 <raster> bumbl:  for any app that uses elementary
Apr 18 15:47:12 <raster> if u build it right
Apr 18 15:47:15 <raster> and set up a symlink
Apr 18 15:47:29 <raster> and have elementary_quicklaunch running
Apr 18 15:47:39 <raster> it uses a little dlopen() hack
Apr 18 15:47:51 <raster> the quicklaunch hangs around already pre-initted and connected to x
Apr 18 15:47:57 <raster> with everything seeded and ready to go
Apr 18 15:48:42 <TAsn> raster, btw, how light is e17? I'm thinking about giving it a go on my p3 600mhz 256mb raw lappie
Apr 18 15:48:45 <TAsn> what do you think?
Apr 18 15:49:11 <raster> then all it does it send a message (ipc socket) to elementary_quicklaunch that dlopens() the appropriate .so that actually has all the core of the app
Apr 18 15:49:32 <raster> then it forks off the child - thus copy on write and inheritign of fd's solves everyting being copied along to a new child
Apr 18 15:49:48 <raster> and hte parent just shuts itself down -re inits and onnects to x again waiting for further instructions
Apr 18 15:50:11 <bumbl> TAsn: on that thing you could run kde if you want
Apr 18 15:50:13 <raster> thus - really fast start as all the ld.so goop and x connecting, roudn trips etc. are skiped as they are done ahead of time
Apr 18 15:50:22 <TAsn> bumbl, really?
Apr 18 15:50:23 <raster> TAsn:  it should run better than most things on that
Apr 18 15:50:30 <TAsn> atm I'm running flux on it.
Apr 18 15:50:34 <TAsn> can't be happier ;]
Apr 18 15:50:37 <TAsn> though it's gentoo
Apr 18 15:50:53 <TAsn> and compile time is terrible
Apr 18 15:51:02 <raster> TAsn:  e17 will be a little heavier than flux
Apr 18 15:51:08 <raster> but it also will have about 10x the features
Apr 18 15:51:16 <TAsn> raster, I used a naked flux
Apr 18 15:51:19 <TAsn> with confy
Apr 18 15:51:24 <bumbl> TAsn: kde usually is not limited by cpu but by ram and i have it running on a p4 with 256mb ram
Apr 18 15:51:26 <raster> to be honest
Apr 18 15:51:29 <raster> just try e17
Apr 18 15:51:31 <raster> if u dont like it
Apr 18 15:51:33 <raster> keep using flux
Apr 18 15:51:38 <raster> at least give it a godo go and see
Apr 18 15:51:45 <raster> if it works for you - great!
Apr 18 15:51:47 <TAsn> raster, I'm reinstalling the box anyway
Apr 18 15:51:49 <max_posedon> Tasn, don't be lazy, cross compile!
Apr 18 15:51:51 <raster> if not - thats fine.
Apr 18 15:52:00 <bumbl> raster: nicely done although the bad python users (aka me) will not be able to use it
Apr 18 15:52:14 <TAsn> hm.. I'm thinking about installing the new ubuntu on it.
Apr 18 15:52:16 <TAsn> I'll see.
Apr 18 15:52:20 <raster> bumbl:  nup. it's a c-only trick
Apr 18 15:52:23 <raster> :(
Apr 18 15:52:30 <raster> but it really cuts down startup time
Apr 18 15:52:37 <bumbl> yep i know
Apr 18 15:52:41 <raster> literally 1 second after hitting enter on the cmdline - a window is up
Apr 18 15:53:01 <bumbl> that's nice
Apr 18 15:53:03 <raster> (and rendered)
Apr 18 15:53:09 <bumbl> we need that for all the core apps
Apr 18 15:53:35 <TAsn> bumbl, core apps (except for phonelog)
Apr 18 15:53:42 <TAsn> are cached.
Apr 18 15:55:13 <TAsn> raster, is there a quick way to get e for ubuntu 9.04 or do I have to compile it myself? googling gives me 3 y/o results.
Apr 18 15:56:29 <raster> bumbl:  unfortunately such tricks cant be pulled for python "generically" along with everything else - ud have to do a specific quiclaunch thing for python
Apr 18 15:56:32 <raster> and oen for ruby
Apr 18 15:56:34 <raster> and one for perl
Apr 18 15:56:36 <raster> and one for...
Apr 18 15:56:40 <raster> (you get the point)
Apr 18 15:57:08 <raster> TAsn: u'll need to compile right now. there are ubuntu ports/packages
Apr 18 15:57:12 <raster> but they are a little old i think
Apr 18 15:57:15 <raster> and i dont know where they are
Apr 18 15:57:17 <raster> i dont use them
Apr 18 15:57:38 <TAsn> raster, i c. well I'll compile then.
Apr 18 15:57:56 <raster> TAsn:  u already had to deal with evas for fribidi!
Apr 18 15:57:58 <raster> it isnt hard
Apr 18 15:58:10 <raster> http://www.rasterman.com/files/get_e.sh
Apr 18 15:58:13 <TAsn> it's not hard
Apr 18 15:58:15 <raster> should... get u there easily
Apr 18 15:58:18 <TAsn> never said it said.
Apr 18 15:58:19 <raster> it should work on ubuntu
Apr 18 15:58:32 <raster> it will install build/run deps
Apr 18 15:58:34 <TAsn> never said it is*
Apr 18 15:58:41 <raster> checkout, compile and install
Apr 18 15:58:59 <TAsn> raster, no jaunty support! ;] 
Apr 18 15:59:39 <raster> hmm edit the .sh
Apr 18 15:59:48 <raster> chances are the other ubuntu ones will work
Apr 18 16:00:03 <TAsn> raster, j/k, I will.
Apr 18 16:00:17 <raster> ok
Apr 18 16:00:19 <raster> snoozies!
Apr 18 16:04:32 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-term * ra1fcae065315 10/ChangeLog: yank ChangeLog
Apr 18 16:13:05 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-term * r2cd15459c689 10/ (Makefile.am src/main.vala src/reader.vala vapi/config.vapi): add banner and shut down gracefully
Apr 18 16:15:45 <bumbl> TAsn: alternatively use easy_e17.sh
Apr 18 16:17:20 <TAsn> bumbl, sweet! thanks.
Apr 18 16:32:36 <Gorbusch> how can i find all libs an application is depending on? The reason i want to know is, that i build the application and copied it to the freerunner and it is missing libs
Apr 18 16:39:11 <coney> omg i cant seem to bitbake tiff for the life of me
Apr 18 16:39:18 <viq> Gorbusch: ldd
Apr 18 16:41:27 <Gorbusch> thanks.
Apr 18 16:41:27 <Gorbusch> Output is "not a dynamic executable"
Apr 18 16:42:14 <viq> If it is compiled statically then it has everything it needs in itself
Apr 18 16:43:41 <Gorbusch> if i start the application i get:
Apr 18 16:43:41 <Gorbusch> gdbserver: error while loading shared libraries: libthread_db.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Apr 18 16:44:11 <Montgoss> Anyone running SHR:  what is in the text field for Delayed Action for the power button by default?
Apr 18 16:45:21 <viq> Gorbusch: how did you compile the program and where?
Apr 18 16:46:02 <Gorbusch> compiled the program on my x86 with host settings to arm-anstrom-linux-gnueabi and complete toolchain installed
Apr 18 16:48:30 <Gorbusch> viq: copied this one file to the freerunner, and this time looks like i got it into the correct folder
Apr 18 16:48:59 <Gorbusch> program is atleast giving me using output
Apr 18 16:50:33 <Gorbusch> looks like it is running fine now :)
Apr 18 16:50:46 <Gorbusch> montgoss: which screen you are talking about?
Apr 18 16:51:58 <Montgoss> Gorbusch: The Key Bindings screen, under Input, in the Illume config menu
Apr 18 16:56:31 <Gorbusch> montgoss: [xterm][0.3 exec xev]
Apr 18 17:00:10 <Montgoss> Gorbusch: thanks.  apparently it's a bad idea to edit that
Apr 18 17:06:36 <Kagee> i'm trying to connect a function [def msgIn(sender, msg, prop)] to a signal in cli-framework - and i came up with this :  
Apr 18 17:06:42 <Kagee> bus.add_signal_receiver(msgIn, 'IncomingMessage', "org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS", "org.freesmartphone.ogsmd", "/org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device")
Apr 18 17:06:54 <Kagee> but it didn't work ....
Apr 18 17:07:22 <Kagee> can anyone give me a ultra-quick course in python/fso/dbus?
Apr 18 17:11:19 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbfcbabbce568 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/ (fsoframework-2.0.gir fsoframework-2.0.vapi transport.vala): fsoframework: transport: refactor configure into base class
Apr 18 17:11:44 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re1b6b140114b 10/fsogsmd/src/plugins/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: implement missing createChannels() method in plugins
Apr 18 17:22:05 <Q-Master> good evening
Apr 18 17:23:05 <pwgen_away> mickeyl: hi 
Apr 18 17:53:51 <bumbl> mirko-paroli: does paroli already use opimd?
Apr 18 17:56:29 <mirko-paroli> bumbl: no not yet
Apr 18 17:56:37 <mirko-paroli> is opimd ready for daily usage?
Apr 18 17:56:56 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re0a6916efe7d 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/channel.py: ogsmd: channel: add freeze() and thaw(), preparing for data call and pdp channel handover
Apr 18 17:57:04 <Q-Master> where to read about opimd?
Apr 18 17:57:27 <bumbl> mirko-paroli: afaik basic stuff seems to work
Apr 18 17:57:39 <bumbl> except for deleting and editing existing contacts
Apr 18 17:58:08 <mirko-paroli> bumbl: hmmm, not really ready for daily than ... but I'll keep an eye on it
Apr 18 17:58:14 <mirko-paroli> would love to get PIM stuff off my hands
Apr 18 17:58:21 <PaulFertser> Q-Master: in the repo primarily :)
Apr 18 17:58:31 <bumbl> Q-Master: git.freesmartphone.org and freesmartphone.org ; the rest of the information is spread all over the net
Apr 18 17:58:42 <Q-Master> hehe
Apr 18 17:58:48 <mickeyl> hi pwerken 
Apr 18 17:58:54 <mickeyl> mmh
Apr 18 17:58:56 <mickeyl> ~lart tab completion
Apr 18 17:58:56 * bzzbot whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that tab completion is stuck to the floor
Apr 18 18:00:24 <mirko-paroli> mickeyl: who were you aiming for ?
Apr 18 18:01:18 <mickeyl> pwgen
Apr 18 18:01:27 <mirko-paroli> ah, close :)
Apr 18 18:39:25 <Gorbusch|away> currently my enlightenment needs about 20% cpu with screen off. Image is 7 days old. Is this known or already fixed?
Apr 18 18:39:59 <onen> Gorbusch|away: SHR? testing? unstable?
Apr 18 18:40:09 <Gorbusch> shr-testing
Apr 18 18:40:17 <dos1> Gorbusch|away: it's fixed
Apr 18 18:40:44 <onen> Gorbusch: testing is renewed since 2-3 days. it now fixes this
Apr 18 18:40:44 <Gorbusch> okay, i will get me a new image
Apr 18 18:41:02 <onen> Gorbusch: fix was only in unstable before
Apr 18 18:41:56 <onen> Gorbusch: http://blog.shr-project.org/2009/04/unstable-migration-to-testing.html
Apr 18 18:42:50 <Gorbusch> Good to know, will check the blog regulary
Apr 18 18:56:36 <WhiteParrot> any info on Project B
Apr 18 19:09:35 <cyberalex> hi
Apr 18 19:11:43 <Gorbusch> the sources of openmoko-message app in shr distro are in the openmoko git?
Apr 18 19:15:33 <dos1> Gorbusch: no, in shr git
Apr 18 19:15:43 <dos1> and it's now shr-messages, no openmoko-messages3
Apr 18 19:15:49 <dos1> s/no/not/
Apr 18 19:15:51 <bzzbot> dos1 meant: and it's notw shr-messages, no openmoko-messages3
Apr 18 19:16:13 <dos1> heh
Apr 18 19:16:23 <dos1> that's not correct ;x
Apr 18 19:16:52 <Gorbusch> if i follow the build image i should have the sources as well?
Apr 18 19:17:21 <dos1> yep
Apr 18 19:23:31 <Gorbusch> hmm, make image fails with Nothing PROVIDES 'shr_lite-image'
Apr 18 19:23:41 <Gorbusch> i have run a make update before
Apr 18 19:23:54 <dos1> change packages to recipes in site.conf...
Apr 18 19:23:58 <dos1> it was on maillist and on blog...
Apr 18 19:31:04 <Gorbusch> dos1: you mean the bbfiles statement? this is already set to recipes
Apr 18 19:32:23 <dos1> hmm
Apr 18 19:44:35 <budfive> mickey|tv: there?
Apr 18 19:51:14 <cyberalex> i'm not able to build libeina with bitbake (configure log: http://rafb.net/p/hvkWx096.html )
Apr 18 19:51:23 <cyberalex> can someone help me please :)
Apr 18 19:52:20 <TAsn> cyberalex, 
Apr 18 19:52:26 <TAsn> bitbake gstreamer
Apr 18 19:52:37 <TAsn> bitbake gstreamer-control as well actually
Apr 18 19:52:39 <TAsn> that's it.
Apr 18 19:53:16 <TAsn> I may got the names wrong, though just try it
Apr 18 19:53:53 <cyberalex> gstreamer is alreary installed
Apr 18 19:55:19 <cyberalex> and gstreamer-control is not a pkg in oe...
Apr 18 19:55:32 <cyberalex> so i'm confused
Apr 18 19:57:24 <TAsn> try to rebuild bitbake it seems like you have an issue with it going to staging.
Apr 18 19:57:53 <TAsn> and maybe gstreamer-control is just another set of modules that come with the gstreamer package
Apr 18 19:57:59 <TAsn> so just rebuild gstreamer.
Apr 18 19:58:16 <TAsn> bitbake -c clean gstreamer && bitbake -c build gstreamer
Apr 18 20:06:45 <Gorbusch> any idea what i could try with this build error?
Apr 18 20:10:03 <coney> isnt it shr-lite-image
Apr 18 20:11:27 <Gorbusch> you mean my errormessage or the make image command?
Apr 18 20:11:56 <coney> mkae shr-lite-image
Apr 18 20:13:09 <Gorbusch> i'm not sure about this anymore. The wiki has on the beginning the statements with make image and later on with make shr-lite-image
Apr 18 20:13:37 <coney> probably cause noone has touched it in awhile
Apr 18 20:13:38 <Gorbusch> but make shr-lite-image fails with
Apr 18 20:13:38 <Gorbusch> make: *** No rule to make target 'shr-lite-image'. Stop.
Apr 18 20:20:02 <cyberalex> no same error...
Apr 18 20:45:31 <plhardy> hi all i am testing latest shr testing. i started from scratch but on ucard, i have already posted a problem with elightmnet not strating on mailling list and found a local problem, now i am facing another problem :
Apr 18 20:46:06 <plhardy> i have no application on my desktop, to get a menu i need to add a start gadget from settings 
Apr 18 20:46:43 <dos1> plhardy: no icons?
Apr 18 20:47:02 <plhardy> no icons
Apr 18 20:47:08 <plhardy> just the top menu
Apr 18 20:47:08 <Sharwin_F> Flashed 2 shr-tsting images today on the buzz party, both 2 had icons
Apr 18 20:47:33 <plhardy> well i think it is related to my system : i have ucard
Apr 18 20:47:43 <dos1> yep, it's your local problem probably ;)
Apr 18 20:47:54 <plhardy> it is splitted in four partition and started through Qi
Apr 18 20:48:03 <dos1> can you delete everything and unpack SHR to sdcard again?
Apr 18 20:48:06 <dos1> but correctly?
Apr 18 20:48:07 <dos1> ;)
Apr 18 20:48:33 <plhardy> it is no normal that enlightment just crash when by example i try to add Start in Shelf Gadget
Apr 18 20:48:51 <plhardy> dos1: did that too many times. no.
Apr 18 20:49:30 <plhardy> i came with same problem when i upgraded from an old testing to an unstable with and opkg update.
Apr 18 20:49:59 <dos1> plhardy: yep, there was problem with upgrading
Apr 18 20:50:06 <dos1> but with fresh images there isn't :P
Apr 18 20:50:10 <plhardy> the latest testing ( this of yesterday ) seems to have problems, since the previous one had icons on my environment
Apr 18 20:50:10 <dos1> and wasn't
Apr 18 20:50:44 <plhardy> there are problem with fresh image because they reference /media/card/bind-root that is on ucard
Apr 18 20:50:52 <PaulFertser> dos1: Hey, does SHR settings app support fast charge mode?
Apr 18 20:50:54 <Sharwin_F> dos1, do you know if unstable is already broken?
Apr 18 20:50:58 <plhardy> and this is not part of system, this is outside
Apr 18 20:51:02 <PaulFertser> dos1: forcing charge current i mean.
Apr 18 20:51:16 <dos1> PaulFerster: no, but i want to implement it
Apr 18 20:51:51 <dos1> Sharwin_F: it shoudnlt
Apr 18 20:52:02 <dos1> s/shoudnlt/shouldn't/
Apr 18 20:52:02 <bzzbot> dos1 meant: Sharwin_F: it shouldn't
Apr 18 20:52:11 <Sharwin_F> ok thanks :)
Apr 18 20:52:15 <PaulFertser> dos1: how do people use fastcharge currently? I saw people complaining that it stopped working for them somehow (probably they use some python script they can't modify for no obvious reason).
Apr 18 20:52:27 <plhardy> dos1: the partition on wcich i untared the system was just empty, it is a scratch install from this point of view
Apr 18 20:52:41 <plhardy> i won't be the only to face that problem
Apr 18 20:53:10 <dos1> PaulFertser: maybe battery.py. i was using it on 2007.2 too. but i don't know where to get it ;x
Apr 18 20:53:26 <plhardy> my question is : how can i debug the testing thingie, gdb is not in repository
Apr 18 20:53:42 <PaulFertser> dos1: hehe, ok, i think i'd let lusers wait for SHR settings update then :)
Apr 18 20:53:46 <dos1> plhardy: gdb? what for?
Apr 18 20:54:14 <dos1> PaulFertser: but it really is only change in path to let that script run ;)
Apr 18 20:54:25 <plhardy> to track where some programs crash
Apr 18 20:55:47 <plhardy> fact is in this special case it won't help me, but in some other it will
Apr 18 20:56:09 <mwester> plhardy:  the reference to /media/card/bind-root should have been fixed
Apr 18 20:56:13 <PaulFertser> dos1: well, i can tell them the new path. :)
Apr 18 20:56:16 <mwester> Perhaps it's not yet in testing?
Apr 18 20:56:39 * mwester thinks we need to refresh testing tonight.
Apr 18 20:58:13 <plhardy> what is the difference between opkg and ipkg ?
Apr 18 20:59:50 <plhardy> this is an alias...
Apr 18 21:01:18 <plhardy> updating my testing
Apr 18 21:03:37 <plhardy> and what about that ext4 rootfs, does it mount correctly ext2, or is it better to have ext3 or even ext4 ?
Apr 18 21:04:18 <plhardy> my mantinenance system is an om2008.12 and it does not have any ext4 tool
Apr 18 21:07:31 <mwester> ext4?
Apr 18 21:07:34 <plhardy> opkg tells it is upgrading Upgrading kernel-module-XXX on root from 2.6.28-... ... i don't catch that since i have already a 2.6.29 installed, is it that the opkg cache doesn't match the testing roottf content ? 
Apr 18 21:08:07 <dos1> plhardy: no. it's only wrong version number in packages. modules are really for 2.6.29 kernel.
Apr 18 21:08:09 <mwester> You can't do opgk upgrades; you need to reflash.
Apr 18 21:08:40 <dos1> mwester: it's about fresh install from today
Apr 18 21:08:46 <mwester> Oh, ok.
Apr 18 21:08:52 <mwester> That'll work then.  
Apr 18 21:08:56 <plhardy> grmmblll
Apr 18 21:08:59 <mwester> (for a few hours, at least :)  )
Apr 18 21:10:10 <plhardy> i iiinstalled a testing then an unstable and 3 times the new testing from scratch, i hoped it would be enough
Apr 18 21:10:36 <dos1> it is enough
Apr 18 21:10:37 <dos1> for me
Apr 18 21:10:38 <dos1> ;p
Apr 18 21:10:49 <mwester> Well, if you've already installed the updated testing image, then it's not going to change if you re-install it.
Apr 18 21:11:25 <plhardy> it seems that if fs is ext2 it mount it ext4, but if ext3 it mount it ext3 ...
Apr 18 21:11:52 <mwester> Are you runngin Qi or u-boot
Apr 18 21:11:58 <plhardy> Qi
Apr 18 21:12:11 <mwester> What is the content of /proc/cmdline
Apr 18 21:12:48 <plhardy> loglevel=4 console=tty0 console=ttySAC2,115200 init=/sbin/init ro  mtdparts=physmap-flash:-(nor);neo1973-nand:0x00040000(qi),0x00040000(depr-ub-env),0x00800000(kernel),0x000a0000(depr),0x00040000(identity-ext2),0x0f6a0000(rootfs)  g_ether.host_addr=00:1F:11:01:82:7F g_ether.dev_addr=00:1F:11:01:82:7F  root=/dev/mmcblk0p3 rootdelay=1 loglevel=1 quiet rootdelay=5
Apr 18 21:13:23 <mwester> Ok.
Apr 18 21:13:30 <mwester> No rootfstype= from Qi.
Apr 18 21:13:40 <mwester> So the kernel must figure out what type it is.
Apr 18 21:13:40 <plhardy> seems it was stupid to readd rootdelay=5 in /boot/append-GTA02
Apr 18 21:14:22 <mwester> You might try adding "rootfstype=ext2" to your append-GTA02 file.
Apr 18 21:14:47 <plhardy> my latest is ext3, but the previous was ext2 and when starting it complained about ext4 and some circular references, i have no such logs anymore since i am in ext3
Apr 18 21:14:50 <mwester> However, i think the next testing kernels will simply not support ext4 for rootfs.
Apr 18 21:15:22 <plhardy> i don't wan't ext4, but i would prefer ext2 to have no journal on ucard
Apr 18 21:15:32 <plhardy> BTW how do i tell noatime on rootfs ?
Apr 18 21:15:32 <mwester> Ok, well thanks for finding that problem; we'll get a solution in the kernel soon.
Apr 18 21:15:41 <mwester> Ah.
Apr 18 21:15:56 <dos1> plhardy: you should have journal on ucard to avoid data corruption
Apr 18 21:15:57 <mwester> Yes, that is a long-standing bug that needs fixing as well.
Apr 18 21:16:08 <plhardy> i don't know actualy if there is atime stamps...
Apr 18 21:16:13 * mwester adds "relatime" to the list of fixes.
Apr 18 21:16:51 <mwester> BTW, I do agree with dos1 - ext3 on the SD card makes sense.
Apr 18 21:17:17 <plhardy> it won't consume the sd too early ?
Apr 18 21:17:19 <mwester> Why would you not want a journal?
Apr 18 21:18:04 <dos1> plhardy: sd? no. sd cards have controler to avoid writing data in the same parts of flash
Apr 18 21:18:06 <plhardy> just the impression that it would write more then consume sdcard cells sooner
Apr 18 21:18:06 <mwester> No, the journal will not injure the SD card, as the wear-levelling is done by the firmware and processor in the SD card itself -- so basically as the journal is written, it is moved all over the SD card.
Apr 18 21:18:52 <dos1> plhardy: journal shouldn't be on in NAND, and NAND needs software wear-levelling. that's why we have jffs2 in NAND.
Apr 18 21:18:59 <thrashold> It's always more exciting without a journal. :) It's so fun when your battery goes dead while e2fsck is running. :)
Apr 18 21:19:04 <plhardy> yes i just learned some days ago about taht wear-levering and why sdcard was actualy not like a flash even if it uses one.
Apr 18 21:19:11 <dos1> plhardy: on sd card, you can use journal. and to avoiding data corruption, you should use it.
Apr 18 21:19:19 <mwester> thrashold:  thats' why you have a backup, right?! :D
Apr 18 21:19:47 <thrashold> Well, I didn't...
Apr 18 21:20:04 <plhardy> dos1: i agree, i'am convinced now. thank for enlighting me ( until i am enlighted by enlightenment ).
Apr 18 21:20:10 * mwester wonders if partimage is in the feeds...
Apr 18 21:21:32 <plhardy> at one point in some weeks when i will masterize the freerunner beast, i will be ready to help you for fixes.
Apr 18 21:21:58 <plhardy> for the moment i just find problems.
Apr 18 21:21:59 <mwester> Cool.  We'll be here!
Apr 18 21:22:33 <mwester> We have no problems!
Apr 18 21:22:42 <mwester> (just solutions that we are not yet aware of)
Apr 18 21:22:45 <plhardy> i don't know arm processor but i know a little about kernel programming.
Apr 18 21:23:27 <mwester> You should join the openmoko kernel mailing list, then - that's where the kernel topics get discussed.
Apr 18 21:26:28 <plhardy> is there a way to tel to enlightment to be more verbose about its errors ?
Apr 18 21:38:16 <bumbl> hmm usually it is quite verbous
Apr 18 21:38:17 <bumbl> e
Apr 18 21:38:37 <plhardy> i got it
Apr 18 21:39:49 <plhardy> if /dev/mmcblk0 is FAT system it goes worng : no icons or whatseover
Apr 18 21:40:53 <plhardy> i changed /home/root to be bind mounted on /dev/mmcblk0p4  which is a ext3 system and my icons does appear
Apr 18 21:41:22 <plhardy> this is certainly a problem of permissions, on fat some can't be changed
Apr 18 21:41:44 <plhardy> YES !
Apr 18 21:41:54 <mwester> Right, that bug was fixed
Apr 18 21:41:59 <mwester> It's just not in testing yet.
Apr 18 21:42:37 <plhardy> what is fixed ? the fact that it doesn't care if it is fat or not ? or is mounted somewhere else ?
Apr 18 21:43:38 <mwester> the bind mount is bogus, and came from upstream.
Apr 18 21:43:46 <mwester> It got removed.
Apr 18 21:45:07 <plhardy> well, but i fixed my /etc/fstab, will my fstab be affected by a next update ?
Apr 18 21:45:44 <mwester> shouldn't be.
Apr 18 21:45:55 <plhardy> this bind-mount is not so bad, it put data on a subpart on antoher system, that allow more sharing
Apr 18 21:46:19 <plhardy> ok, then fix is in rootfs.
Apr 18 21:46:32 <mwester> It assumes way too much.
Apr 18 21:46:49 <plhardy> yes it assumes a lot :-)
Apr 18 21:47:17 <mwester> If a user wants a bind-mount such as that, it should be an option at setup time during first boot.
Apr 18 21:47:23 <plhardy> this should be a quetion after a first install : would you like to create an external home
Apr 18 21:47:29 <mwester> yep
Apr 18 21:47:43 <mwester> With a nice GUI tool to reconfigure it if you wish to pull out your SD card.
Apr 18 21:47:44 <plhardy> i just can agree :-)
Apr 18 21:47:57 <mwester> So we need someone to write all that.
Apr 18 21:47:58 <mwester> :)
Apr 18 21:48:07 <mwester> In the meantime, I took it out. :p
Apr 18 21:49:30 <plhardy> well better is sometimes good's ennemy ( a french sentence litteraly translated ).
Apr 18 21:50:08 <plhardy> don't code something if you get rid of it :-)
Apr 18 21:58:31 <freerunner-gta02> at least pidgin works from shr testing
Apr 18 21:58:59 <freerunner-gta02> not so usable with the keyboard
Apr 18 21:59:14 <plhardy> proof of concpet
Apr 18 21:59:37 <plhardy> freerunner-gta02 is me on my freerunner
Apr 18 22:00:22 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07fso-makefile * rf83ca74445dc 10/conf/site.conf: Changed packages to recipes in site.conf.
Apr 18 22:00:24 <plhardy> not so easy to choose the channel, you can't see what you are typing since it is hidden wihtin other filed that ovelpas
Apr 18 22:01:50 <plhardy> fields
Apr 18 22:01:57 <plhardy> overlaps
Apr 18 22:02:03 <plhardy> time to sleep
Apr 18 22:03:31 <plhardy> by all. mwester, thanks for all.
Apr 18 22:35:41 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07fso-makefile * rc3c1c5175301 10/Makefile: Changed fso-image to fso-paroli-image
Apr 18 22:46:15 <dcordes> http://www.compulab.co.il/exeda/html/exeda-datasheet.htm interesting platform for free software
Apr 18 23:27:11 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mwester 07shr-overlay * r2703de0939fd 10/patches/kernel/ (4 files): patches/kernel: updated kernel to patch out upstream changes causing a WSOD,
Apr 18 23:27:20 <mwester> Yo!!   
Apr 18 23:27:46 <mwester> Somebody sync up their shr-unstable, buiild it, and test it please!
Apr 18 23:29:11 <BillK> shr-stable, make update: error: Entry 'conf/site.testing.conf' not uptodate. Cannot merge.
Apr 18 23:30:03 <BillK> also, last night left it building, died at shr-contacts,
Apr 18 23:30:07 <BillK> make: *** No rule to make target `install'.  Stop.
Apr 18 23:30:17 <BillK> new build from scracth :(
Apr 18 23:37:06 <BillK> s/shr-stable/shr-testing
Apr 18 23:49:13 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mwester 07shr-overlay * rf42374d67736 10/openembedded/recipes/shr/ (initscripts-shr/checkroot.sh initscripts-shr_git.bb): SHR initscripts-shr/checkroot.sh: remount rootfs if noatime is absent as well
Apr 19 00:04:22 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mwester 07shr-overlay * ra34da99b8c27 10/openembedded/recipes/images/shr-image.inc: shr-image.inc: Fix (temporary; real fix is upstream) to make udev stop complaining
Apr 19 00:04:22 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mwester 07shr-overlay * r2703de0939fd 10/patches/kernel/ (4 files): patches/kernel: updated kernel to patch out upstream changes causing a WSOD,
Apr 19 00:04:24 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mwester 07shr-overlay * rf42374d67736 10/openembedded/recipes/shr/ (initscripts-shr/checkroot.sh initscripts-shr_git.bb): SHR initscripts-shr/checkroot.sh: remount rootfs if noatime is absent as well
Apr 19 00:04:24 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mwester 07shr-overlay * r86d2d4b84771 10/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git@shr.bearstech.com:shr-overlay.git into testing
Apr 19 01:30:00 <wurp2|working> Does anyone know how to get the "Gps & Maps" icon on my desktop?
Apr 19 01:30:38 <wurp2|working> I mean, I can create a desktop entry for tangogps, but I liked the icon...
Apr 19 01:34:19 <mwester> Isnt' there a tangogps.desktop file already?
Apr 19 01:38:11 <wurp2|working> mwester: Lemme check... it doesn't appear on my desktop
Apr 19 01:38:42 <Toaster`> wurp2|working: are you talking about your FR desktop? Or your computer desktop?
Apr 19 01:38:45 <mwester> Yeah, I don't see it appearing either.
Apr 19 01:40:06 <mwester> Edit the tangogps.desktop file and change Application to plural.
Apr 19 01:40:10 <mwester> Sigh.
Apr 19 01:40:15 <wurp2|working> My neo1973 desktop :-)
Apr 19 01:40:46 <wurp2|working> mwester: Excellent, thanks.  I would have seen that if I had just looked... but I assumed it was just missing
Apr 19 01:41:03 <mwester> A reasonable assumption...
Apr 19 01:42:12 <wurp2|working> Several of them are missing the trailing s
Apr 19 01:42:18 <wurp2|working> Hrm, including some that show up
Apr 19 01:42:47 <mwester> Seems there are multiple categories being displayed.
Apr 19 01:43:11 <wurp2|working> I changed the wrong one :-)
Apr 19 01:43:21 <wurp2|working> The one in Categories was wrong, not the Type
Apr 19 01:43:56 <wurp2|working> however, fixing the category in tangogps.desktop does make it show up
Apr 19 01:44:37 <wurp2|working> Wow, the Categories are all mixed up
Apr 19 01:44:49 <mwester> It's a mess
Apr 19 01:44:54 <wurp2|working> Utility vs Utilities, Application vs Applications
Apr 19 01:44:56 <mwester> Clearly someone needs to sort that.
Apr 19 01:45:38 <mwester> It's also relatively pointless since you have no easy way to select with category you wish to view.
Apr 19 01:46:38 <wurp2|working> Phonelog has two Categories entries... not sure how that's interpreted
Apr 19 01:46:53 <wurp2|working> very true re: pointlessness
Apr 19 01:47:51 <wurp2|working>  for f in `grep -l Categories.*Application[^s] /usr/share/applications/*.desktop `; do vi $f; done
Apr 19 01:47:55 <wurp2|working> :-)
Apr 19 01:55:52 * Blu3 removes vi
Apr 19 01:58:30 <wurp2|working> I'm not sure emacs is a good idea on the neo ;-)
Apr 19 02:03:34 <Blu3> i use joe
Apr 19 02:03:34 <rozzin> Emacs works fine with a Twiddler2.
Apr 19 02:03:44 <rozzin> Too bad their out of production :\
Apr 19 02:03:57 <rozzin> Too bad they're out of production, rather :\
Apr 19 02:05:13 <rozzin> I may try hooking mine up to my FreeRunner, at some point, now that I've tracked down the necessary adaptors.
Apr 19 02:05:39 <rozzin> FreeRunner in one pocket, Twiddler in the other....
Apr 19 02:05:42 <wurp2|working> rozzin: I have one
Apr 19 02:05:51 <wurp2|working> The fuzzy stuff wore off the nub
Apr 19 02:06:04 <wurp2|working> so now it's an ugly square piece of plastic
Apr 19 02:06:06 <rozzin> I hope I don't get funny looks, `playing' in one pocket and talking into the other, though....
Apr 19 02:06:14 <rozzin> Mmph.
Apr 19 02:06:25 <rozzin> You can get replacement nub-caps from Lenovo.
Apr 19 02:06:32 <rozzin> All sorts of different ones, actually.
Apr 19 02:06:39 <wurp2|working> I'll look into that
Apr 19 02:06:45 <wurp2|working> I actually used my twiddler very little
Apr 19 02:06:54 <wurp2|working> I have a folding keyboard I had been using with my neo
Apr 19 02:06:58 <wurp2|working> bluetooth
Apr 19 02:07:33 <wurp2|working> But it hasn't been working on the neo for some time... the bt on my build was fubar, and now I think the batteries are too low
Apr 19 02:07:50 <wurp2|working> I have neglected my neo for a while... the new shr-testing install is the shit
Apr 19 02:09:33 <Toaster`> :q
Apr 19 02:11:02 <mwester> Gonna file some bug reports, wurp2|working ?
Apr 19 02:11:11 <wurp2|working> I should say, "the shit" is good... as opposed to the new install is shit, which is bad
Apr 19 02:11:35 <mwester> That's what I thought you meant.
Apr 19 02:11:43 <mwester> :) We need more gta01 testers.
Apr 19 02:11:55 <wurp2|working> I'll submit some on the .desktop files, and some of the settings guis are bad sizes
Apr 19 02:12:01 <wurp2|working> Which keeps me from using them to do anything
Apr 19 02:12:32 <mwester> Especially ping the team on those specific to the gta01 -- image size, for example, or bad choices for what's a kernel module vs built-in, etc.
Apr 19 02:12:50 <wurp2|working> I'll look out for those
Apr 19 02:13:05 <mwester> BTW, can you check if your rootfs mount has the "noatime" option?
Apr 19 02:13:10 <mwester> cat /proc/mounts
Apr 19 02:13:12 <wurp2|working> The image size was good, though, and I probably won't dig too much in modules
Apr 19 02:13:42 <wurp2|working> mwester: nope, rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0
Apr 19 02:13:54 <mwester> Ah, good. :)
Apr 19 02:14:06 <mwester> testing or unstable?
Apr 19 02:14:44 <mwester> hmm... what about the /dev/root entry?
Apr 19 02:17:42 <wurp2|working> teseting
Apr 19 02:17:45 <wurp2|working> er, testing
Apr 19 02:18:13 <wurp2|working> mwester: /dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
Apr 19 02:18:49 <mwester> Ok.  I pushed a fix that should change that, but it's only in unstable right now, I think.
Apr 19 02:19:01 <wurp2|working> Sorry, I'm switching windows to my neo & doing stuff there at the same time
Apr 19 02:24:51 * mwester jumps
Apr 19 02:25:09 <mwester> I read that as "Sorry, I'm switching _to_ windows _on_ my neo..."
Apr 19 02:25:12 <mwester> :P
Apr 19 02:25:35 <Toaster`> That would be an interesting situation.
Apr 19 02:25:56 <wurp2> Ow
Apr 19 02:25:59 <Blu3> anyone familiar with the sms code shr uses?  i'm looking to fix the bug where all text messages have a void timestamp
Apr 19 02:26:47 <wurp2> It would take three hours to boot, and you would have to remove 25 viruses every time you turned off bt or disconnected usb
Apr 19 02:27:38 <wurp2> I don't seem to know how to operate the key bindings screen
Apr 19 02:27:53 <wurp2> It might have something to do with part of the gui being offscreen
Apr 19 02:29:54 <Blu3> not off screen, covered up by a GPF dialog...
Apr 19 02:29:57 <Blu3> ;)
Apr 19 02:30:16 <wurp2> For me, it's off screen
Apr 19 02:30:38 <wurp2> as in, the gui is about 30% larger than the screen horizontally, with the extra bits being off screen on either side
Apr 19 02:31:33 <Blu3> i was being facetious @ windows on neo
Apr 19 02:31:49 <wurp2> O
Apr 19 02:32:04 <wurp2> sorry, I translated GPF to segfault
Apr 19 02:32:18 <Blu3> =]
Apr 19 02:36:25 <wurp2> Can you change the checkbox values in Illume wrench->Display->Top Shelf?
Apr 19 02:36:31 <wurp2> It gives me a SIGABRT every time
Apr 19 02:38:08 <wurp2> I kind of suspect it's because there is a wifi gadget in there, and of course I don't have wifi
Apr 19 02:38:48 <Blu3> last time i tried it, it crashed
Apr 19 02:39:05 <wurp2> OK
Apr 19 02:39:08 <wurp2> thanks
Apr 19 02:43:06 <rozzin> wurp2: I was going to paste a trackpoint-cap URL to you..., but it's like... eleventy-seventy characters long.
Apr 19 02:43:48 <rozzin> But, on lenovo.com, it's $9.99 for a set of six caps--2 each of 3 different kinds.
Apr 19 02:46:16 <wurp2> rozzin: Awesome, thanks!
Apr 19 02:46:25 <wurp2> I'll find it with google
Apr 19 02:46:36 <wurp2> That URL might have had a session id in it anyway
Apr 19 02:46:44 <wurp2> People need to discover REST
Apr 19 02:48:44 <wurp2> rozzin: What kind of typing speed do you get with your twiddler?
Apr 19 02:48:57 <wurp2> I have only played with mine, never used it for anything serious
Apr 19 02:57:11 <wurp2> How do I hunt up the right place to report bugs for each app?  Or is it sufficient to provide one bug report to SHR for all the desktop files?
Apr 19 02:58:13 <wurp2> Oh, and what are people doing about gprs connection?  I have a handy little script (with a .desktop entry) that does it
Apr 19 02:58:30 <Blu3> i have a script i exec
Apr 19 02:58:52 <Blu3> shr annoys me because it won't keep any settings
Apr 19 02:58:57 <wurp2> I saw the Settings option for connecting, but from what I read it doesn't remember the settings
Apr 19 02:59:00 <wurp2> :-)
Apr 19 02:59:05 <Blu3> 'xactly
Apr 19 02:59:13 <Blu3> so instead of fixing it all the time, i just use a script
Apr 19 02:59:47 <wurp2> I'd typically rather not go through four clicks to turn on gprs anyway
Apr 19 02:59:51 <wurp2> yeah, me too
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 19 02:59:57 2009