**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 12 02:59:57 2009
May 12 04:15:32 <shoragan> #ofono
May 12 05:40:19 <mrmoku|a`> Deubeuliou: vala-problems?.... To build vala native you have to bitbake -c clean vala-bootstrap-native first!
May 12 05:45:33 <alphaone> rwhitby: Cool, another API
May 12 05:46:50 <mrmoku> hehe... exactly what we need :(
May 12 05:50:43 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: i never thought holtmann is a dick but his way of expressing his thoughts about FSO is questionable to say the least.
May 12 05:50:47 <PaulFertser> :(
May 12 05:51:20 <rwhitby> meh - all technical people think their solution is best
May 12 05:51:34 <rwhitby> so it was not an unexpected response
May 12 05:53:18 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: i expected him to come here or to smartphones-standard to discuss it first. It doesn't make any sense if he just does his own thing without even talking to the most important "competitor".
May 12 05:53:48 <PaulFertser> And who does he suppose to convince others without any document describing why FSO way sucks and his way is better?..
May 12 05:54:03 <rwhitby> PaulFertser: there is no way that Intel or Nokia would allow such discussion in public before the announcement.
May 12 05:54:20 <rwhitby> you need to realise you're dealing with multi-billion dollar companies here
May 12 05:54:37 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: i'm talking about Marcel, not Nokia or Intel.
May 12 05:55:02 <PaulFertser> It's just fucking unfair what he did, at least it looks like it to me :(
May 12 05:55:05 <rwhitby> I expect he would be under strict conditions (and maybe even scripts) about what he can and can't say about ofone in public.
May 12 05:55:58 <mwester> "tight leash" is the term, I expect.
May 12 05:56:21 <rwhitby> To ascribe the actions to an individual is naive.  You're dealing with a marketing and corporate strategy department, not an individual.
May 12 05:56:36 <rwhitby> mwester: agreed
May 12 05:57:06 <rwhitby> (in fact, two corporate strategy departments, which means an even tighter leash)
May 12 05:58:52 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: how can i be dealing with a ".... department" when i'm talking to a particular person?.. Everybody is responsible for his own words, talks like "Well, FSO is shit because it shit, i understood that immediately i saw that, i know how to do it properly, sorry you lost" is just crap. I can't see my friend talking like that e.g.
May 12 05:59:15 <rwhitby> PaulFertser: ever worked in a large corporation?
May 12 05:59:29 <rwhitby> (i.e. 10K employees or larger)
May 12 05:59:58 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: Sure not, and i hope i'll never will.
May 12 06:00:04 <rwhitby> and I wonder how many people here would say exactly those words about Windows?
May 12 06:01:59 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: Working in a large corporation in no way can excuse unethical moves against other developers. In fact, it's aggravating circumstance imho. :(
May 12 06:03:27 <rwhitby> Wow, you have a very strong reaction to what I saw as mild words from him.
May 12 06:03:50 <PaulFertser> Words don't matter, actions do.
May 12 06:04:18 <PaulFertser> If he reasonably justified his actions, well, i'd consider it. But he didn't. It's lack of words from him that bothers me.
May 12 06:04:27 <rwhitby> How is ofono relative to FSO different from FSO relative to Qtopia?
May 12 06:05:01 <rwhitby> Both are just a new technical solution to the same basic problem space.
May 12 06:06:44 <PaulFertser> It is different for sure. rwhitby don't you remember that Qtopia is not free software project? Have you forgot how they accepted contributions? OM tried to participate in developement, fixed many issues, but was told that it breaks some proprietary stuff and therefore OM had to maintain a fork. OM tried to contribute but Nokia's attitude was damn wrong...
May 12 06:07:27 <PaulFertser> Well, give us BSD patches and maybe we release it as GPL-only later is the kind of patch acceptance policy no sane free software developer will like. 
May 12 06:07:38 <PaulFertser> No public tree, no public bug-tracker.
May 12 06:07:48 <rwhitby> From a large corporation's point of view, interaction with FSO is no different.
May 12 06:08:16 <rwhitby> In fact, the fact that FSO is not a legal entity is a key reason why Intel and Nokia would not be able to deal with it.
May 12 06:08:27 <rwhitby> No one to sue ...
May 12 06:09:43 <PaulFertser> I don't care about Nokia and Intel, i care about Marcel and other honorable devs who did shit to the fellow developers. And didn't justify it from technical POV, just some "FSO doesn't do what we want from an API and design perspective" and "The time of our UI developers is better spent to make everything look sexy than solving technical issues because of stupid APIs" is clearly not enough.
May 12 06:10:40 <rwhitby> PaulFertser: perhaps you can join #ofono and convince them ...
May 12 06:10:58 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: is your suggestion meant to be ironic?
May 12 06:11:30 <rwhitby> no, it's a suggestion to deal with a disagreement at the point of disagreement, rather than just bitch about it in a different channel
May 12 06:13:35 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: i think i'm not insane enough to think that i can change anything on the ofone side. I'm nobody. OTOH i can seek for some consensus (on what is good and what is bad) here and probably some will realise that helping the "good" guys (and not looking at what the "bad" guys do) is the right thing to do. 
May 12 06:16:32 <PaulFertser> Nah, in fact i don't want to do anything, i'm just very disappointed by _that_ kind of attitude.
May 12 06:16:44 <PaulFertser> rwhitby: Thanks for letting us know.
May 12 06:20:21 <PaulFertser> Heh, good morning everybody
May 12 06:23:47 <shoragan> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6762676329.html?kc=rss
May 12 06:25:46 <PaulFertser> shoragan: can you please comment on my concerns?
May 12 06:26:20 <shoragan> i'm also rather suprised that they didn't talk to us
May 12 06:26:41 <shoragan> if our api's are bad we'd rather fix them
May 12 06:27:24 <shoragan> also our stated goal is to move to C/Vala for the performance critical stuff
May 12 06:28:56 <mrmoku> as long as it brings us more open devices... to install FSO/SHR on... good for me :P
May 12 06:29:15 <shoragan> they just the usual holtmann-properties API (like connman, bluez)
May 12 06:31:26 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: do you consider a possibility of closing parts of the system? Like "we-are-really-open-source" android guys did with their "RIL" and several other critical parts? Have you noticed a sentence about low-level plug-in API to interface to cellular modems? Kind of worrying.
May 12 06:31:40 <mrmoku> which nobody finds simple... at least I'm having much less trouble with FSO API's... instead of bluez or connman
May 12 06:32:40 <shoragan> mrmoku, exactly my impression
May 12 06:32:43 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: of course... but I'm a positive thinking guy :-) So I assume the other way round.. until proven wrong
May 12 06:33:19 <PaulFertser> "enabling developers to focus on "presentation aspects and funky animated UIs," -- utter nonsence, imho
May 12 06:36:37 <tmzt> PaulFertser: the android ril isn't closed, the htc one is
May 12 06:36:49 <alphaone> PaulFertser: Honestly that kind of attitude doesn't really surprise me...
May 12 06:36:59 <alphaone> smells of politics
May 12 06:37:12 <PaulFertser> tmzt: android folks made that possible
May 12 06:38:08 <PaulFertser> alphaone: it surprised me because i assume all people to be good by default.
May 12 06:38:14 <alphaone> hmm
May 12 06:38:16 <tmzt> sure, I'd hate to argue that openmoko made a closed gsm firmware possible though
May 12 06:38:16 <PaulFertser> Esp. free software devs.
May 12 06:38:52 <tmzt> when it's the closed gsm firmware and libhtcril that made the whole of the respective projects possible commercially
May 12 06:39:25 <tmzt> my point was there is an open version of the ril in the android git repos, just not the closed one shipped on the g1
May 12 06:39:51 <tmzt> and the higher level of the gsm stack is implemented in java and only interfaces with that library
May 12 06:40:53 <PaulFertser> tmzt: if i was an android dev i'd make a big fuss about bad htc behaviour and talked about it on every corner.
May 12 06:41:48 <tmzt> I don't know of any "android devs" who aren't google/android employees
May 12 06:44:08 <PaulFertser> tmzt: Exactly my point. No matter who you work for, you're first of all a human. A fellow developer. And should behave. You might have bad temper, mood swings, whatever. But you shouldn't screw anybody. That's how i see it.
May 12 06:45:05 <tmzt> I guess I don't get it, just the act of allowing the release or a closed ril is what you see as this behavior?
May 12 06:49:33 <PaulFertser> tmzt: not allowing. Absence of complaining is what bothers me.
May 12 06:51:08 <PaulFertser> tmzt: btw, FSO itself is GPL, so no core functionality inside it can be implemented in a proprietary module.
May 12 06:51:42 <PaulFertser> tmzt: it least i guess that's the intention and if it was somehow violated i'm sure the core devs would complain.
May 12 06:51:56 <tmzt> right, it wouldn't make munch sense to do that though, at least in the python version
May 12 06:52:03 <tmzt> everything is imported/interconnected
May 12 06:54:50 <tmzt> as for complaining, I haven't seen anything directed at HTC but some general comments about things they would prefer were different
May 12 06:55:20 <tmzt> closed libraries being a major one of those
May 12 06:58:09 <PaulFertser> tmzt: That looked more like a general complaining about that life is not ideal and stuff, not a particular accustation. Doesn't count.
May 12 06:58:44 <tmzt> I could find some more specific stuff but I don't think it has much to do with this
May 12 06:59:08 <PaulFertser> Yeah, this time it's completely different.
May 12 06:59:12 <tmzt> if I understand the comments they were partly about the differing visions for the dbus APIs
May 12 06:59:37 <tmzt> with FSO focusing on implementing an GSM UE spec fairly closely
May 12 07:00:09 <PaulFertser> They should have discussed it first and make a fair comparision. Not start their own independent project even without mentioning FSO anywhere. 
May 12 07:00:34 <PaulFertser> tmzt: and FSO aims at providing both low-level and high-level means of interacting with system, afaik.
May 12 07:01:45 <tmzt> GSM and Phone?
May 12 07:03:20 <mrmoku> yep
May 12 07:03:56 <mrmoku> Phone... which hopefully includes VoiP one day too...
May 12 07:04:10 <tmzt> I have a similar issue, I have a device (a whole class of devices really) with no sim card, should I return a new NotImplemented error or something else
May 12 07:04:16 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: any news on the g_ether problem?
May 12 07:04:34 <mrmoku> mwester: forgot your timezone... are you sleeping? :P
May 12 07:04:38 <tmzt> the GSM api does not exactly fit here but I have no reason to implement a full CDMA api because the AT commands are so similar
May 12 07:04:45 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: mwester has some. Said that ethernet gadget doesn't know about link disconnecting/connecting at all.
May 12 07:05:18 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: i seem to remember he's somewhere near Chicago.
May 12 07:05:36 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: so we need to work around in some way... maybe choose manually if we want USB network or not..
May 12 07:06:20 <mrmoku> chicago would be UTC−6
May 12 07:06:26 <mrmoku> sleeping then ;)
May 12 07:07:04 <Ainulindale> Hey there
May 12 07:07:20 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: morning
May 12 07:07:23 <tmzt> at some level the kernel should know
May 12 07:07:29 <tmzt> what's the issue here?
May 12 07:07:50 <mrmoku> not getting notified if the USB network link is up or down
May 12 07:07:57 <mrmoku> get plugin plugout events
May 12 07:08:09 <mrmoku> to enable usb networking (set the default route to it) or to fallback to something else
May 12 07:08:11 <tmzt> uevent?
May 12 07:08:31 <tmzt> is there a otg_transceiver device in sysfs?
May 12 07:08:36 <mrmoku> something connman recognizes...
May 12 07:09:08 <mrmoku> tmzt: there is /sys/class/net/usb0/carrier
May 12 07:09:12 <mrmoku> but it is always 1
May 12 07:09:32 <tmzt> well you would have to bring the phy up down in response to those events
May 12 07:09:53 <PaulFertser> tmzt: no, something like ethernet link up/down events should be enough.
May 12 07:09:56 <tmzt> then connman should see it
May 12 07:10:13 <PaulFertser> tmzt: they work for hot-plugging ethernet cable on desktops...
May 12 07:10:29 <tmzt> why? if it's the same as physical ethernet the interface shouldn't come up/down, just the phy I think
May 12 07:10:31 <PaulFertser> tmzt: issued by carrier_on/off calls in the driver.
May 12 07:10:34 <tmzt> or wait
May 12 07:10:37 <tmzt> yeah
May 12 07:10:58 <tmzt> but how do you trigger those from the usb layer?
May 12 07:11:09 <PaulFertser> And we yet to find a way to insert these calls in the ethernet gadget driver...
May 12 07:11:30 <mrmoku> tmzt: so host side (cdc_ether) gets them...
May 12 07:11:33 <PaulFertser> tmzt: netif_carrier_on and 
May 12 07:11:34 <mrmoku> s/so/the/
May 12 07:11:34 <bzzbot> mrmoku meant: tmzt: the host side (cdc_ether) gets them...
May 12 07:11:52 <PaulFertser> netif_carrier_off. But the gadget side calls that only once on loading and unloading.
May 12 07:12:26 <methril|work> morning
May 12 07:13:35 <mrmoku> methril|work: still missing my resume on efl2... I know :(
May 12 07:14:07 <methril|work> well, now i've to work a little bit, i'll take a look later :)
May 12 07:14:24 <mrmoku> methril|work: until then I might have sent the mail even :P
May 12 07:14:36 <methril|work> you're really bussy?
May 12 07:15:11 <mrmoku> methril|work: would not say I don't know what to do.... Having more what do I have to do first problem ;)
May 12 07:15:25 <max_posedon> uImage-2.6.29-oe10+gitr119805+f656a97d946a2529630c9770a72c10a24dc397f9-r3.4-om-gta02.bin doesn
May 12 07:15:31 <max_posedon> t work with uboot?
May 12 07:15:56 <methril|work> max_posedon: works for me yesterday
May 12 07:16:17 <methril|work> mrmoku: I understand ;)
May 12 07:16:24 <max_posedon> "Kernel panic: not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(31,6)"
May 12 07:16:50 <methril|work> well, then it's not the kernel, it's the rootfs
May 12 07:17:03 <max_posedon> oh... catched, I flashed tar.gz.. instead of jffs2...
May 12 07:17:08 <methril|work> :)
May 12 07:17:10 <mrmoku> :)
May 12 07:17:42 <max_posedon> how can I convert tar.gz to jffs2 ?  
May 12 07:18:54 <methril|work> why you didn't download a jffs2?
May 12 07:19:03 <methril|work> or bitbake a jffs2 image?
May 12 07:19:55 <max_posedon> I haven't normal internet now, just want convert what I have.
May 12 07:22:24 <tmzt> jffs2-tools right?
May 12 07:23:25 <tmzt> or -utils
May 12 07:23:32 <max_posedon> ok, I hope, mkfs.jffs2 -l -o
May 12 07:26:22 <methril|work> mkfs.jffs2 --root=${IMAGE_ROOTFS} --faketime --output=${DEPLOY_DIR_IMAGE}/rootfs.${MACHINE} ${EXTRA_IMAGECMD}
May 12 07:28:09 <PaulFertser> What about block erase size? AFAIK it should also be specified.
May 12 07:29:16 <methril|work> max_posedon: http://pastebin.com/m4c93bc58
May 12 07:29:25 <methril|work> yes, are the EXTRA_IMAGECMD
May 12 07:29:30 <methril|work> in pastebin
May 12 07:29:36 <max_posedon> tahaks
May 12 09:32:49 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/05/12/#20090512-ophono_fso
May 12 09:35:04 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: yep. Interesting how he would have thought better of the companies where i see that as completely irrelevant and i'm feeling sad because i would have thought better of the people involved.
May 12 09:36:36 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: but basically he states loudly and openly what i (and what is more important, FSO devs) are concerned with, that's the kind of talk an honest man does.
May 12 09:36:54 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: hmm... generally speaking... sometimes people are under constraints
May 12 09:37:01 <mrmoku> don't know how it is here though...
May 12 09:37:35 <mickeyl> waterfall model style of development is incompatible with OSS methods
May 12 09:37:36 <mickeyl> IMO
May 12 09:37:38 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: If one's ethics conflicts with constraints, one chooses ethics... Except being in a desperate state.
May 12 09:37:46 <mickeyl> i don't see them shaping the platform together with the community
May 12 09:37:53 <mickeyl> it's going to be take or leave 
May 12 09:37:55 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: And i don't think any of ofone devs are desperate.
May 12 09:37:56 <mickeyl> and this i don't call open
May 12 09:38:01 <mickeyl> code open or not doesn't matter here
May 12 09:38:04 <mickeyl> *shrug*
May 12 09:38:11 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: sure. 
May 12 09:38:35 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: have you seen http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/ofono.txt ?
May 12 09:38:48 <roh> mickeyl smells like maemo did
May 12 09:39:06 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: "<holtmann> We want to do something like a 21st century telephony stack and not some copy of ETSI specifications. It needs to be simple for the UI." and "<holtmann> The time of our UI developers is better spent to make everything look sexy than solving technical issues because of stupid APIs :)".
May 12 09:39:52 <mickeyl> sounds good
May 12 09:39:56 <mickeyl> sounds like the FSO mission
May 12 09:39:58 <mickeyl> :)
May 12 09:40:01 <mickeyl> roh: yeah
May 12 09:40:41 <Ainulindale> Hey there
May 12 09:40:47 <Ainulindale> (again)
May 12 09:40:57 <roh> besides that it sounds like he didnt unterstand that fso will not be the last layer to the top (in the end)
May 12 09:42:15 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: i don't think an honest man can just say "FSO is stupid and too low-level" without coming here first to discuss actuall issues. To start another project under the covers without any comparision. Harald wrote exactly about that in a much better wording. I'm sad to see famous devs participating in this kind of crap.
May 12 09:42:16 <mickeyl> i agree with not copying ETSI, however there's hardly anything more familiar with telephony than the ones who wrote these specs, so not considering them at all will lead to problems.
May 12 09:42:28 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: full ack.
May 12 09:43:04 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: it's all about control :(
May 12 09:43:21 <mickeyl> Marcel never has been a good team player i'm afraid
May 12 09:43:23 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: if he had admitted it from the beginning, well, i've no complains. But he didn't.
May 12 09:43:30 <mickeyl> yeah
May 12 09:46:02 <PaulFertser> I don't expect anything good from Nokia itself, they're obviously too tainted, HTML5 video tag is enough for a judgement about a corporation. As to Intel... Well, all corporations are more or less the same, some are nicer in some regards, some not... Too bad for free software lovers :-/ OTOH we're lucky to have many amazing things we already have. I look around and just can't beleive we have so many cool apps, tools and possibilities :)
May 12 09:46:47 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: just answered to your mail on shr-devel
May 12 09:46:56 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: ok, cool
May 12 09:47:40 <Ainulindale> By the way, would you be interested in this "core" team I was talking about?
May 12 09:47:43 <Ainulindale> I feel the urge to organize things
May 12 09:48:05 <Ainulindale> I don't know how you do that for FSO but I feel a bit lost with people driving me nuts trying to do everything at the same time
May 12 09:48:22 <Ainulindale> And nobody but a few people doing the actual useful (and annoying) stuff
May 12 09:48:32 <mickeyl> hehe, i can imagine
May 12 09:48:42 <Ainulindale> Such as writing specs, docs, bug wrangling & such
May 12 09:49:10 <Ainulindale> I can't possibly tell people what to do if they're not willing to offer some of their time willingly for that kind of stuff, after all they're not paid for that
May 12 09:49:19 <Ainulindale> (hence the "core team" initiative)
May 12 09:49:34 <mickeyl> a team trying to keep the project focused and moving towards a common goal as a whole is always a good idea, albeit somewhat hard to implement due to all folks working on it in their spare time
May 12 09:49:54 <mickeyl> so yes, i think a core team is a good idea, but don't lay too much hope in it accellerating the process
May 12 09:50:08 <Ainulindale> I don't lay too much hope on that, I just think that it'll allow me to formalize things
May 12 09:50:09 <mickeyl> as for organization, it will definitely help
May 12 09:50:13 <mickeyl> yeah
May 12 09:50:18 <Ainulindale> I.e. being able to tell people what to actually do even if they don't like it
May 12 09:50:46 <mickeyl> of course you can't force them to do it unless you pay them, but you could tell them that it would help the project more if they did that as opposed to this
May 12 09:50:54 <Ainulindale> Nowadays a bunch of developers are "interested". Are they interested enough to willingly do stuff, that is another thing
May 12 09:52:47 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: by the way
May 12 09:52:57 <Ainulindale> tried hopelessly to compile vala-bootstrap-native yesterday for Deubeuliou 
May 12 09:53:06 <Ainulindale> it was failing complaining about a missing makefile directive
May 12 09:53:07 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: btw, can you give some active channel participants (like Ainulindale, mrmoku, spaetz e.g.) an irc OP (there was a case with dos1 unwillingly spamming the chan and nobody could stop him)?
May 12 09:53:13 <Ainulindale> (the pending-upstream-move branch)
May 12 09:53:25 <mickeyl> vala-bootstrap-native should not come from pending-upstream
May 12 09:53:29 <mickeyl> it needs to be a release version
May 12 09:53:35 <mickeyl> 0.7.2 in my tree
May 12 09:53:44 <Ainulindale> Well I tried that
May 12 09:53:48 <Ainulindale> But then vala failed
May 12 09:53:54 <Ainulindale> complaining about a non runnable binary
May 12 09:54:01 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: for #openmoko i could do that, this channel was not registered by me though
May 12 09:54:01 <Ainulindale> (arm compiled, lt-vala)
May 12 09:54:28 <mickeyl> you tried to build vala for arm?
May 12 09:54:29 <mickeyl> why?
May 12 09:54:34 <mickeyl> [not that it shouldn't work]
May 12 09:54:40 <Ainulindale> I just did bitbake vala
May 12 09:54:47 <mickeyl> yeah, but why?
May 12 09:54:50 <mickeyl> what for? :)
May 12 09:55:00 <Ainulindale> No idea, Deubeuliou told me he needed it
May 12 09:55:15 <mickeyl> Vala for arm is not much use unless you compile on the device
May 12 09:55:32 <Ainulindale> That's good to know. So vala-native should come from pending-upstream-move then?
May 12 09:55:36 <mickeyl> correct
May 12 09:55:39 <mickeyl> check my tree
May 12 09:55:45 <Ainulindale> Where?
May 12 09:55:50 <mickeyl> git.freesmartphone.org:openembedded mickey/org.openembedded.dev
May 12 09:55:58 <Ainulindale> damn you forked
May 12 09:56:00 <Ainulindale> you ugly bastard! :-)
May 12 09:56:00 <mickeyl> i'm not committing to OE atm.
May 12 09:56:14 <mickeyl> this may change in the future but right now i need to boycott
May 12 09:56:46 <mickeyl> yes it sucks, but so does human behaviour sometimes
May 12 09:56:49 <mickeyl> *shrug*
May 12 09:56:52 <Ainulindale> "now"?
May 12 09:56:58 <Ainulindale> You mean it'll change in the nearest future?
May 12 09:57:05 <Ainulindale> Is there some change undergoing? :-)
May 12 09:57:46 <Ainulindale> (going to eat, bbl)
May 12 09:58:23 <mickeyl> well
May 12 09:58:38 <mickeyl> behind the scenes I'm looking for ways to "come back" in order to prevent a long-standing fork
May 12 09:58:56 <mickeyl> but not without a chance in steering
May 12 09:58:59 <mickeyl> err
May 12 09:59:02 <mickeyl> s/chance/change/
May 12 10:13:00 <emmentaler> ok.. so securecall works more or less.. 
May 12 10:13:07 <mickeyl> yay!
May 12 10:13:08 <mickeyl> congrats
May 12 10:13:16 <playya> securecal?
May 12 10:13:21 <emmentaler> the problem is now securedialer.. that does the callhandling
May 12 10:13:24 <mickeyl> so once I'm finished with the framework, we have a solution for secure calls
May 12 10:13:28 <playya> encrypted telephonyß
May 12 10:13:45 <playya> s/ß/?
May 12 10:13:48 <mickeyl> yep
May 12 10:13:59 <emmentaler> securecall == alsa -> speex -> encryption ---- csd call (serial)  -> decryption -> speex -> alsa
May 12 10:15:03 <emmentaler> mickeyl, any news concerning data call handling in FSO?
May 12 10:15:31 <mickeyl> no time to do the last bits of integration yet
May 12 10:15:44 <mickeyl> shouldn't be more than one day work left
May 12 10:16:42 <emmentaler> ok.. our problem is now that our bachelor thesis almost reached its end .. so we are running out of time .. since there are some papers to write.. :-/
May 12 10:17:37 <emmentaler> it would be great if we could deliver something that works .. my friend, plinder, is now developing securedialer, that does the handling of the datacall .. 
May 12 10:17:56 <PaulFertser> emmentaler: why can't you handle connection establishing yourself as a hack? Just request a pty from the muxer and use it?
May 12 10:17:59 <emmentaler> so i hope we should be able to get this to work soon.. 
May 12 10:18:35 <raster> boooooooooo
May 12 10:18:44 <emmentaler> PaulFertser, yes.. we are working on this.. we arent able to get a channel using dbus.. 
May 12 10:18:59 <emmentaler> is there any example that does this already?
May 12 10:19:06 <PaulFertser> emmentaler: what problems do you face with it?
May 12 10:19:16 <PaulFertser> emmentaler: mdbus -s org.pyneo.muxer /org/pyneo/Muxer org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.AllocChannel testpty
May 12 10:20:07 <emmentaler> aha.. he does this within c-code but he says that he never gets a response from dbus.. 
May 12 10:20:24 <PaulFertser> emmentaler: try the same from command line, usually works.
May 12 10:20:40 <raster> mmmmm
May 12 10:20:40 <PaulFertser> emmentaler: mdbus just shows you the pty and you're free to use it (as mickeyterm does)
May 12 10:20:50 <raster> i just saw the most gorgeous phone
May 12 10:20:55 <emmentaler> ah ok .. 
May 12 10:20:55 <raster> its off the dial
May 12 10:20:56 <PaulFertser> emmentaler: let him compare what his code does and what mdbus does.
May 12 10:21:49 <tig|> raster: got a link for it?
May 12 10:22:09 <mickeyl> raster: picture?
May 12 10:22:30 <raster> tig|: nup... as it doesn't exist... (in the outside world) yet.
May 12 10:22:38 <raster> mickeyl: :( sorry
May 12 10:22:39 <raster> BUT
May 12 10:22:40 <mickeyl> ah, open source-able?
May 12 10:22:43 <raster> it was gorgeous
May 12 10:22:52 <raster> small, thin, amazing screen
May 12 10:23:01 <raster> not lcd.. 480x480 AMOLED
May 12 10:23:09 <raster> tghat thing just looked goregous
May 12 10:23:11 <mickeyl> sounds like the new samsung android thing
May 12 10:23:12 <PaulFertser> raster: Mooo. Any progress on HTC Dream?
May 12 10:23:22 <raster> black wasnt grey... it was BLACK!
May 12 10:23:27 <raster> colors bright and sharp
May 12 10:23:38 <raster> and it was hyper-thin
May 12 10:23:45 <raster> makes an iphone look fat
May 12 10:23:58 <raster> and it was black and shiny (and 3g... and... well i'll top there)
May 12 10:24:10 <raster> and it has a good chance of being... hackable
May 12 10:24:11 <raster> ys
May 12 10:24:12 <raster> yes
May 12 10:24:17 <raster> thus i ... mention it
May 12 10:24:24 <emmentaler> PaulFertser, i think we will create a small script that just works so we can continue with testing..  and later implement a good solution when FSO is able to handle datacalls .. 
May 12 10:24:32 <raster> it probably will hit the streest some time in the next few months i imagine
May 12 10:24:40 <PaulFertser> emmentaler: sure a good workaround for the time being.
May 12 10:24:47 <raster> i wish i could say more
May 12 10:24:59 <raster> but.. keep your eyes peeled for new android phones...
May 12 10:26:17 <methril|work> mickeyl: what this does? http://pastebin.com/m2e9dea0c
May 12 10:26:42 <methril|work> i see a inversion... but i didn't understand it really well
May 12 10:28:13 <mickeyl> eeks
May 12 10:28:17 <mickeyl> that's an ugly construct
May 12 10:28:20 <mickeyl> where's that from?
May 12 10:28:29 <methril|work> ubx.py
May 12 10:28:33 <raster> PaulFertser: no- i've been busy with work stuff. i will play next week
May 12 10:28:36 <methril|work> in ogpsd
May 12 10:28:38 <methril|work> :D
May 12 10:28:40 <mickeyl> oops
May 12 10:28:43 <mickeyl> our work then
May 12 10:28:55 <methril|work> yes
May 12 10:28:58 <raster> PaulFertser: at least i've hacked it so i have root. now i just ned to know how to cleanly make a new userspacd without making it all fall apart
May 12 10:28:58 <mickeyl> alphaone|gone went a bit too far with this contstruct :)
May 12 10:29:38 <methril|work> i could understand the dict, but not the logic inverting it (make a dictionary with the values as indexes)?
May 12 10:29:49 <mickeyl> well, i can't tell you about the why
May 12 10:29:52 <mickeyl> i can tell you how it works
May 12 10:30:01 <mickeyl> for the 'why' you need to ask alphaone|gone, it's his code :)
May 12 10:30:19 <methril|work> i understand in the code, but i didn't see so easy to understand in the expression :)
May 12 10:30:54 <methril|work> ok, i ask him when comes back
May 12 10:31:11 <mickeyl> ya
May 12 10:31:14 <PaulFertser> raster: Good plan and good news from you today :) Very cool, the sun is shining again :)
May 12 10:31:46 <raster> PaulFertser:  :) i try and.. bear good news
May 12 10:32:12 * raster mumbles somthing about this shiny new amoled phone having a ... 6410 in it...
May 12 11:01:40 <DocScrutinizer> raster: oled at last?  :-)
May 12 11:02:17 <DocScrutinizer> was sure you'd love it once you see it
May 12 11:04:40 <raster> DocScrutinizer: actually i have some reservations
May 12 11:04:42 <raster> its dotty
May 12 11:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
May 12 11:04:53 <raster> lcd has much smoother display
May 12 11:04:55 <raster> but
May 12 11:04:59 <raster> black is black
May 12 11:05:05 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 12 11:05:08 <raster> the black in the screen is the black of he case]
May 12 11:05:13 <DocScrutinizer> it's like plasma
May 12 11:05:14 <raster> same deep dark shiny black
May 12 11:05:15 <raster> yum
May 12 11:07:04 <DocScrutinizer> raster: 0clk-cpu?
May 12 11:07:04 <josch> but what will it do outside in the sun? reflect like hell?
May 12 11:07:57 <raster> DocScrutinizer: nah. suspend/resume
May 12 11:08:03 <DocScrutinizer> eeew
May 12 11:08:06 <raster> josch: probably
May 12 11:08:13 <raster> josch:  but dont burst my ballon
May 12 11:08:23 <raster> it looked utterly gorgeous indoors
May 12 11:08:40 <raster> well if i imagined it minus the wires and pcb bits poking out of the side...
May 12 11:08:43 <DocScrutinizer> nah, oled should be rather decent in sunlight
May 12 11:08:44 <methril|work> raster: could you give us some clue about the device? or it's secret?
May 12 11:09:23 <DocScrutinizer> methril|work: guess
May 12 11:09:26 <raster> methril|work: it has been on engadget as a rumor
May 12 11:09:32 <raster> put it that way
May 12 11:09:37 <raster> there is a photo of it there
May 12 11:10:11 * josch crawls his rss history..
May 12 11:10:20 <methril|work> iPhone 3rd generation?
May 12 11:10:24 <DocScrutinizer> and you know about which CPU it doesn't use
May 12 11:11:13 <raster> methril|work:  u think i'd be going gaga over something out of cupertino?
May 12 11:11:34 <methril|work> hehehe, it's plenty of rumours around :P
May 12 11:12:13 <methril|work> ok, i'll take a look to engadget ;)
May 12 11:12:21 <DocScrutinizer> muahaha
May 12 11:12:42 <josch> but how does 480x480 make a good phone? aren't the wider displays better/more usable
May 12 11:12:54 <josch> s/phone/phone display/
May 12 11:12:54 <bzzbot> josch meant: but how does 480x480 make a good phone display? aren't the wider displays better/more usable
May 12 11:13:07 <josch> who the heck installed this bot!?
May 12 11:13:39 <methril|work> Capela, Samsung i7500 ?
May 12 11:13:47 * DocScrutinizer thinks raster doesn't like steve
May 12 11:14:55 <DocScrutinizer> josch: what's wrong with lovely bzzbot (except it "can't find binary")?
May 12 11:15:13 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf wtf
May 12 11:15:14 <bzzbot> no binary found.
May 12 11:15:21 <PaulFertser> ~beer josch
May 12 11:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
May 12 11:15:37 <josch> he wont even hand me a beer! :D
May 12 11:15:38 <methril|work> ~food bzzbot
May 12 11:15:50 <methril|work> ~food methril|work
May 12 11:15:55 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
May 12 11:15:55 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer: :)
May 12 11:16:23 <DocScrutinizer> bzzbot: you are useless!
May 12 11:16:23 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer: what are you talking about?
May 12 11:16:38 <methril|work> bzzbot: you need more commands 
May 12 11:17:01 <josch> bzzbot: beer - NOW!
May 12 11:17:04 <DocScrutinizer> bzzbot needs more BRAIIIN
May 12 11:17:08 <methril|work> hehehe
May 12 11:17:16 <methril|work> ~brain > bzzbot
May 12 11:17:31 <methril|work> ~beer
May 12 11:17:47 <methril|work> josch: no way
May 12 11:17:49 <methril|work> :)
May 12 11:17:51 <DocScrutinizer> bzzbot: apt is smarter than bzzbot
May 12 11:17:51 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer: okay
May 12 11:17:56 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
May 12 11:17:57 <methril|work> lunch time
May 12 11:17:59 <methril|work> hehehe
May 12 11:18:01 <DocScrutinizer> ~apt
May 12 11:18:01 <bzzbot> methinks apt is smarter than bzzbot
May 12 11:18:01 <methril|work> bbl
May 12 11:18:09 <DocScrutinizer> good bot
May 12 11:18:19 <josch> it learns at least
May 12 11:19:09 <methril|work> bzzbot: beer gives a delicious beer to $1
May 12 11:19:16 <methril|work> ~beer me
May 12 11:20:05 <josch> i take back everything i said and state the opposite
May 12 11:20:15 <josch> now let the bot sleep its rightful slumber
May 12 11:22:05 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  steve? what steve?
May 12 11:22:13 <PaulFertser> Jobs
May 12 11:22:24 <raster> josch: i disagree. tall screens on phones are far and wide much more usable
May 12 11:25:10 <DocScrutinizer> ~beer is <reply> bzzbot gives a delicious beer to $who
May 12 11:25:10 <bzzbot> okay, DocScrutinizer
May 12 11:25:19 <DocScrutinizer> ~beer methril|work 
May 12 11:25:48 <josch> raster: i meant that - doesnt count wether portrait or landscape as this can be changed by sw but important is that they are far from being sqare
May 12 11:25:49 <DocScrutinizer> bzzbot: idiot!
May 12 11:26:41 <DocScrutinizer> bzzbot: ~WAKE UP!!!
May 12 11:26:48 <DocScrutinizer> bzzbot: WAKE UP!!!
May 12 11:26:54 <raster> josch: well 480-800 is further from square taqn the gta02
May 12 11:27:02 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
May 12 11:27:02 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer: aw, gee
May 12 11:27:10 <raster> and phones need to be tall just because of ear and mouth positions :)
May 12 11:27:18 <DocScrutinizer> greedy & lazy
May 12 11:29:03 <josch> raster: this is why 480x800 is better thatn 480x640
May 12 11:29:04 <Zorkman> bzzbot: is Dave alive?
May 12 11:29:11 <raster> josch: yes
May 12 11:29:13 <raster> imho
May 12 11:29:20 <raster> its taller
May 12 11:29:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen dave
May 12 11:29:27 <bzzbot> dave <n=dave@pool-138-89-1-87.mad.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 25d 22h 8m 33s ago, saying: 'dos1, I thought opimd was just a legend!? :o'.
May 12 11:29:35 <mickeyl> famous last words :D
May 12 11:30:26 <DocScrutinizer> who's our main kernel maintainer ATM?
May 12 11:33:33 <SHR-WugBranler> tracfeed: Ticket #431 (Problem with Dillo) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/431#comment:1>
May 12 11:33:49 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: Nelson
May 12 11:33:58 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
May 12 11:34:00 <DocScrutinizer> thanks
May 12 11:34:35 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: it's been you who created the new gsm-powerswitch, no?
May 12 11:34:38 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i guess nobody else left at OM-the-company except him.
May 12 11:34:46 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 12 11:34:55 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: Mostly, then Andy refactored it a bit iirc.
May 12 11:40:48 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: problem with messages
May 12 11:40:53 <Ainulindale> each time I put a space, it puts a new line instead
May 12 11:41:13 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: what's the problem with the gsm-powerswitch?
May 12 11:42:10 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: could you have a look, if there's any chance it locks by buggy tty "at@poff", e.g waiting for flowcontrol or a response etc? wrt #???? (can't find it grrr)
May 12 11:42:41 <DocScrutinizer> sth like "doesn't answer to any AT commands"
May 12 11:43:55 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: kernel doesn't send at@poff...
May 12 11:44:15 <bumbl> mirko-paroli: hmm after some testing i have to say that paroli lacks a screen lock + booting and suspending and resuming takes more time than with shr + the kernel i use seems to be quite unstable
May 12 11:44:27 <mirko-paroli> hi bumbl
May 12 11:44:33 <bumbl> hi mirko-paroli 
May 12 11:44:39 <mirko-paroli> bumbl: re the issues, only one is a paroli issue ;)
May 12 11:44:45 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: hmm
May 12 11:45:12 <bumbl> hehe yes
May 12 11:45:22 <bumbl> the others have to go to angus
May 12 11:45:28 <DocScrutinizer> we got http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2215 and http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2257
May 12 11:45:46 <mirko-paroli> bumbl: and nelson I guess
May 12 11:48:45 <Ainulindale> Deubeuliou: backlog for vala
May 12 11:49:04 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: do you know if tty lines of CPU are switched to highZ (or input) on powering down modem?
May 12 11:50:23 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i think yes, they are.
May 12 11:50:43 <DocScrutinizer> ok, thanks
May 12 11:51:36 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: s3c2410_gpio_cfgpin(S3C2410_GPH1, S3C2410_GPIO_INPUT); s3c2410_gpio_cfgpin(S3C2410_GPH2, S3C2410_GPIO_INPUT);
May 12 11:51:59 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, looks like the line
May 12 11:53:51 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: ping
May 12 11:54:48 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: old efl, right?
May 12 11:56:40 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: kernel bat-charge is fubar. we should talk about what it needs to restore proper operation
May 12 11:57:39 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: hehe... not the space is the problem...
May 12 11:57:49 <mrmoku> the number of chars it seems
May 12 11:58:04 <mrmoku> 'is a' stays in one line ;)
May 12 11:59:35 <mrmoku> hmm... if the next line gets longer... it rewraps
May 12 11:59:39 <mrmoku> strange
May 12 11:59:48 <mrmoku> raster: something changed in the behaviour of entries?
May 12 12:12:01 <alphaone> mickeyl, methril|work: Well, I need both directions
May 12 12:15:23 <alphaone> Sending CFG-NAV2 I need mapping from "CFG-NAV" to how the message is encoded and receiving a (class, id, length) tuple I need to find the type of message and how to decode it
May 12 12:18:20 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, did you chance upon the posix + stropts.h mail in vala lists?
May 12 12:18:30 <Deubeuliou> Ainulindale: ?
May 12 12:28:08 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: still having vala problems?
May 12 12:34:58 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: I didn't test today and I can't use git at school
May 12 12:36:13 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: ok... just for you to remember... we *only* need vala-native
May 12 12:36:17 <mrmoku> not the target version
May 12 12:36:28 <mrmoku> and to build vala from git you have to bootstrap it
May 12 12:36:43 <mrmoku> (or have some valac installed on your buildhost i think)
May 12 12:37:16 <mrmoku> to bootstrap it: 'bitbake -c clean vala-bootstrap-native; bitbake vala-bootstrap-native'
May 12 12:37:32 <mrmoku> after that you can do 'bitbake vala-native' and all should be fine
May 12 12:37:41 <Deubeuliou> aha, ok
May 12 12:38:09 <Deubeuliou> the missing targets problem may be solved by proceeding so ?
May 12 12:38:26 <mrmoku> at least that is what works for me
May 12 12:38:31 <Deubeuliou> ok
May 12 12:38:33 <mrmoku> everything you need should be in OE
May 12 12:38:41 <mrmoku> don't have to build it locally
May 12 12:38:53 <Deubeuliou> and it has the gir-writing feature ?
May 12 12:39:08 <mrmoku> the recipes are in OE and the pending-update-move branch we do set via our autorev.inc
May 12 12:39:33 <mrmoku> should have that... 
May 12 12:39:55 <Deubeuliou> ok
May 12 12:45:47 <dent> mrmoku: (to be sure if I got what you said) if I don't have valac on my build box and I'm doing a fresh build in OE, bitbake vala-native always fails... untill I bitbake vala-bootstrap-native?
May 12 12:46:03 <mrmoku> dent: yep
May 12 12:46:28 <dent> seemed like this was happening, but wasn't sure, thanks for claryfing :)
May 12 12:46:40 <mrmoku> even worse... if you bitboke vala-native and you want to bitbake it again... you have to explicitely clean and rebake vala-bootstrap-native
May 12 12:47:28 <mrmoku> this seems to be due to the package-staging feature of OE which we are using... (and might cause more trouble then benifit)
May 12 12:47:48 <mrmoku> still have to find out what this is all about...
May 12 12:47:58 <dent> I think shr wiki is not clear about this... so I'll add that info
May 12 12:49:04 <mrmoku> dent: great, thanks
May 12 12:49:31 <dent> mrmoku: so, if I had valac on my box, all (w.r.t vala) would work ok? and it's just lacking valac causing trouble?
May 12 13:02:51 <mrmoku> dent: thats what mickeyl said... either use the boostrap... or have valac in your path
May 12 13:06:52 <mrmoku> (at least what I understood ;)
May 12 13:27:34 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: found and fixed... going to commit now
May 12 13:28:12 <qknight> today i discovered another X bug
May 12 13:28:26 <qknight> the screen just when white and the system didn't work anymore
May 12 13:28:31 <qknight> occured the first time
May 12 13:30:05 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr * r600e2110db8d 10/libframeworkd-phonegui-efl/src/view/message-new-view.c: phonegui-efl: correct size for entry of new messages
May 12 13:31:45 <mwester> re
May 12 13:31:56 <mrmoku> mwester: hey... good morning :)
May 12 13:32:14 <mrmoku> had some nice nightmare of netlink messages?
May 12 13:32:20 <mwester> greetings.  (need more coffeee!)
May 12 13:32:22 <mwester> Yes.
May 12 13:33:13 <mwester> The host USB driver handles that based on "vbus" -- there is even an IRQ handler for vbus changes.
May 12 13:34:07 <mwester> When vbus disappears, then the USB connection is lost, and that triggers the shutdown of the driver, and ultimately results in a loss of carrier and a netlink message from g_ether.
May 12 13:34:10 <mwester> But...
May 12 13:34:28 <mwester> vbus is not not handled by the host USB driver on the gta02.
May 12 13:34:38 <mrmoku> eeek
May 12 13:35:24 <mwester> Yep, that entire mechanism is a giant no-op.  Now I need to find out how we fix that.
May 12 13:35:42 <mwester> And that's where I fell asleep on my keyboard, so that is a job for today.
May 12 13:35:48 <mrmoku> :)
May 12 13:36:13 <mwester> (I bet it comes as no surprise that this code ends up involving the pcf60633 driver, ultimately).
May 12 13:36:34 <mwester> I am really, really beginning to dislike that driver as much as the serial driver. :D
May 12 13:38:46 <mwester> But the good news is that it is now just a matter of plumbing -- we know how g_ether is *supposed* to get its signal, and we know which driver *does* get the signal instead, at the worst we simply put a callback in place to tie the two together (until someone who knows more about the guts can do it the right way).
May 12 13:39:39 <mrmoku> mwester: good :-) we have to prepare the UI side then... to get nice automatic networking
May 12 13:39:52 * mwester goes off to find more coffee... must have coffee...
May 12 13:40:15 * mrmoku passes mwester a nice and strong double espresso :-)
May 12 14:03:05 <khiraly1> re
May 12 14:04:16 <SHR-WugBranler> tracfeed: Ticket #438 (problem gnome-config->dbus) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/438>
May 12 14:10:17 * spaetz just had excellent coffee in the UK, didn't know that exists
May 12 14:14:26 <mickeyl> heh
May 12 14:14:31 <mickeyl> where are you?
May 12 14:15:45 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: mrmoku: err, please help me out. If FR operates in host mode usb, Vbus is supposed to come *from* FR, no?
May 12 14:16:23 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer: hmm...
May 12 14:16:35 * mrmoku has no idea about low-level stuff :(
May 12 14:17:25 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: usb host provides Vbus (5V)
May 12 14:18:01 <spaetz> Liverpool
May 12 14:18:14 <mickeyl> nice. what for?
May 12 14:18:15 <DocScrutinizer> spaetz: huh?
May 12 14:18:33 <spaetz> Conference. (non technical conference)
May 12 14:18:42 <alphaone> root@om-gta02 ~ $ cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter\:i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode 
May 12 14:18:43 <alphaone> 0
May 12 14:19:24 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: You'll need to set that to 1 afaik
May 12 14:20:32 <alphaone> Not sure if that's done automagically depending on the ADC value
May 12 14:21:06 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, there is some way to set USB to logic host, and some way to enable 5V-Vbus. neverthelsess I don't completely understand the suggested "fix" to g_ether mwester is suggesting
May 12 14:21:39 <alphaone> Oh, I'm not aware of that
May 12 14:21:45 <alphaone> (the fix)
May 12 14:22:10 <DocScrutinizer> [15:34] <mwester> vbus is not not handled by the host USB driver on the gta02.
May 12 14:22:53 <alphaone> So that answers that
May 12 14:22:54 <DocScrutinizer>  -a 20
May 12 14:23:27 <alphaone> Can we read the adc value of the glamo from userspace?
May 12 14:23:46 <DocScrutinizer> glamo adc?
May 12 14:25:55 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: mrmoku: AIUI a discrete usb-ethernet adapter is a device, and should be operated from FR both logical host AND FR *providing* Vbus
May 12 14:26:43 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: sorry, pcf
May 12 14:27:17 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: aah, sure there should be a way to get this value
May 12 14:28:01 <DocScrutinizer> emphasis on "should". never checked
May 12 14:28:26 <alphaone> ;-)
May 12 14:28:39 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: "Was nicht passt wird passend gemacht"
May 12 14:29:08 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so klingt das gerade mit g_ether
May 12 14:29:46 <DocScrutinizer> though I don't have the whole picture yet, what's the issue and how we should tackle it
May 12 14:31:45 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: Also on GTA02 we could add an ambient temperature sensor through the PCF
May 12 14:31:50 <DocScrutinizer> I even missed whether FR is simulating the usb->ethernet adapter or is driving an external ethernet-adapter 
May 12 14:32:15 <DocScrutinizer> another one. we got one in bat already
May 12 14:32:42 <alphaone> Well, that's not quite "ambient"
May 12 14:32:57 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 12 14:33:38 <DocScrutinizer> we should retrofit the original function tho, to handle gta01 bat correctly
May 12 14:34:06 <DocScrutinizer> as well as gta01 compatible bat
May 12 14:34:55 <DocScrutinizer> anyway all this is messed up FUBAR and a lot of loose ends
May 12 14:35:04 <Azog> alphaone: do you have news about the FR?
May 12 14:35:14 <DocScrutinizer> huh?
May 12 14:35:16 <alphaone> Will that not interfere with CC bat?
May 12 14:35:30 <alphaone> Azog: Nope, I've fixed the others yesterday.
May 12 14:35:53 <alphaone> Azog: And I'm a little out of ideas, I must admit
May 12 14:35:58 <DocScrutinizer> how should it? you can disable the test-voltage, and ADC is input
May 12 14:36:06 <alphaone> okay
May 12 14:36:13 <alphaone> didn't know you could disable it
May 12 14:36:21 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 12 14:36:25 <mrmoku> alphaone: is there a fso/dbus way to keep gps on during suspend?
May 12 14:36:45 <alphaone> mrmoku: No(t yet)
May 12 14:36:51 <mrmoku> ok :)
May 12 14:37:13 <alphaone> patches welcome, actually
May 12 14:37:28 <alphaone> You'd only need to echo 1 to the keep on file in pm_gps
May 12 14:37:41 <alphaone> and then not call shutdown device/init device
May 12 14:37:49 <alphaone> But maybe just set a fixnow mode
May 12 14:38:06 <alphaone> which should find its way to dbus as well
May 12 14:38:09 <alphaone> (fixnow)
May 12 14:38:36 <mrmoku> ok
May 12 14:39:09 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: LEDAMB is the sensor input?
May 12 14:39:56 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 12 14:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: need a C and photodiode afaik. even got TP (on gta02A6?)
May 12 14:42:24 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: should be rather easy to retrofit
May 12 14:42:50 <alphaone> yeah, I saw the TP
May 12 14:42:54 <alphaone> convenient :-)
May 12 14:43:18 <mwester> DocScrutinizer:  Not enough coffee.  s/host/device/
May 12 14:43:21 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, took me some nagging to get this one into design ;-)
May 12 14:43:50 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: aah, that explains a lot. makes it clearer to me
May 12 14:46:24 * DocScrutinizer has his 2nd glas of latte atm, so feels with mwester 
May 12 14:50:17 <Azog> alphaone: hm, that's bad news, what can we do now?
May 12 14:54:49 <alphaone> Azog: I'm not sure.
May 12 14:55:19 <alphaone> Got THW tonight, but I'll try another debugging session.
May 12 14:55:42 <alphaone> Maybe not tomorrow, because I have to take care of my tax declaration :-(
May 12 14:55:50 <alphaone> Azog: How long can you wait?
May 12 14:55:56 <alphaone> Or would you be willing to?
May 12 14:55:58 <m0nt0> Ainulindale, big leader, will ophonekitd integrate the settings?
May 12 14:56:02 <Azog> thanks for your efforts, maybe i can send you some more chocolate
May 12 14:56:16 <Azog> alphaone: i can wait
May 12 14:56:37 <mrmoku> m0nt0: nah... of course it will
May 12 14:56:44 <m0nt0> lol
May 12 14:56:46 <m0nt0> ok
May 12 14:56:51 <alphaone> Azog: No need, I'm getting fat already :-)
May 12 14:56:54 <alphaone> But thanks
May 12 14:58:39 <Azog> thanks for the information, gtg now; damn work...
May 12 15:00:14 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, chocolate. there was some... (heading to kitchen)
May 12 15:00:14 <mrmoku> nytowl: ping
May 12 15:00:16 <alphaone> np. Cu azog
May 12 15:00:22 <nytowl> mrmoku, pong
May 12 15:00:41 <mrmoku> nytowl: I started to build an image with the om-2009 version thingie included
May 12 15:00:46 <mrmoku> to get newer stuff
May 12 15:01:01 <mrmoku> one thing that I stumbled over was popt
May 12 15:01:20 <mrmoku> it is trying to install the static lib... which is not there
May 12 15:01:22 <nytowl> you mean om2009 recommended version
May 12 15:01:27 <mrmoku> yep
May 12 15:01:38 <nytowl> that fille needs to be toasted
May 12 15:01:47 <mrmoku> hehe... toasting it right now ;)
May 12 15:01:56 <nytowl> it really has nothing to do with Om2009
May 12 15:02:06 <mrmoku> fix for popt was to remove -a from oe_libinstall call
May 12 15:02:34 <nytowl> best would be to copy the 2008 to 2009 and we can move forward with that
May 12 15:03:03 <mrmoku> you think the image won't work?
May 12 15:03:37 <nytowl> It might I never got that far using that file 
May 12 15:03:52 <mrmoku> ok... will tell you
May 12 15:04:08 <mrmoku> at least it brings in all the nice new autotool versions we need 
May 12 15:06:38 <nytowl> mrmoko ok thanks
May 12 15:15:43 <Sharwin_F> /var/OE/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/lib/libxml2.so: undefined reference to `gzopen64'
May 12 15:15:52 <Sharwin_F> this error is preventing me to build a lot of things xD
May 12 15:17:05 <spaetz> mmh, new autotools
May 12 15:17:08 <spaetz> want it
May 12 15:18:07 <mrmoku> NOTE: Running task 3285 of 7107 
May 12 15:18:15 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, hi
May 12 15:18:21 <mrmoku> still lot of steps that can break horribly ;)
May 12 15:18:50 <mickeyl> hi Sup3rkiddo 
May 12 15:19:13 <mickeyl> Sup3rkiddo: this stropt.h thing is ugly
May 12 15:19:21 <mickeyl> Sup3rkiddo: i wonder why noone answers
May 12 15:20:51 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, yeah... I had to delete the stropt bindings from posix.vapi to get things working. btw, I started on onetworkd. Is it ok if I can do away with the typemodule infrastructure of libfsoframework without any plugins. 
May 12 15:21:20 <Sup3rkiddo> I mean, can't see why we need to load it as a plugin.. There is only interface anyway
May 12 15:21:28 <Sup3rkiddo> which isn't gonna change
May 12 15:21:30 <mickeyl> please not
May 12 15:21:37 <mickeyl> first, you don't know whether it will gain more plugins
May 12 15:21:43 <Sup3rkiddo> right
May 12 15:21:45 <mickeyl> 2nd, this time i really want to support two modes with everything
May 12 15:21:48 <mickeyl> plugin-based
May 12 15:21:50 <mickeyl> static
May 12 15:22:05 <mickeyl> so we need to keep the build infrastructure homogenous
May 12 15:22:18 <mickeyl> to make it possible to link all plugins into a static executable, if needed
May 12 15:22:29 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, ok, i understand. Thats why I thought it is best to ping you before I get too far... 
May 12 15:22:38 <mickeyl> right, thanks for checking
May 12 15:22:53 <Sup3rkiddo> so I will have a sharing plugin that exposed the ConnectionSharing Iface
May 12 15:23:02 <Sup3rkiddo> i mean 'sharing' plugin :D
May 12 15:24:56 <mickeyl> yeah :)
May 12 15:48:11 <mickeyl> emmentaler: 2009.05.12 17:47:28.253 ogsmd.device         INFO     org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.CallStatus: 1 connect {'status': 'connect', 'direction': 'incoming', 'mode': 'data', 'peer': '01786731510', 'line': 0, 'port': '/dev/pts/3'}
May 12 15:54:31 <Zorkman> mickeyl: you sir, are talking gibberish (from my point of view :))
May 12 15:57:39 <mickeyl> hehe
May 12 15:57:54 <mickeyl> not the first time someone said that to me ... i guess i have to live with that
May 12 16:09:56 * mickeyl spending a fortune on testing data calls
May 12 16:10:05 <mickeyl> ~lart run time errors
May 12 16:10:06 * bzzbot slaps run time errors around with a large trout
May 12 16:19:08 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07cornucopia * r2d04c8ad008d 10/fsonetworkd/ (20 files in 6 dirs): Initial skeleton of fsonetworkd
May 12 16:47:18 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07mickey/full-csd-handling * ra9f4779e0749 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/calling.py: 
May 12 16:47:18 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: CSD handling with external call handler part 2/3 done (outgoing)
May 12 16:47:18 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: Limitation: the state machine does not know about the additional state and will raise an execption,
May 12 16:47:18 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: on everything call handling while the call handler is active. To end a call while the csd handler
May 12 16:47:22 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: is still active, you can only use org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.ReleaseAll()
May 12 16:56:48 <Sharwin_F> ostres, que hevy, desde que he obert l'avidemux que no tinc so....
May 12 16:56:55 <Sharwin_F> ops sorry
May 12 17:28:08 <dos1> python-telepathy is really working!
May 12 17:28:14 * dos1 is fascinated
May 12 17:28:19 <mrmoku> nah...
May 12 17:28:44 <mirko-paroli> dos1: what ya buidling?
May 12 17:28:59 <onen> oh my god, 40 minutes without anybody posting sth, what happens here? ;-)
May 12 17:29:30 <mrmoku> it was so peacefulll... and then... dos1 came along ;)
May 12 17:29:44 <dos1> mirko-paroli: nothing. i'm testing python-telepathy on my PC... looks like i will write some elementary based IM app :)
May 12 17:29:49 <onen> mrmoku: indeed :-D
May 12 17:29:53 <mirko-paroli> dos1: I had the same thought
May 12 17:30:02 <mirko-paroli> we need an IM that fits the screen etc
May 12 17:30:11 <mirko-paroli> IF you were thinking of having it on the FR
May 12 17:31:08 <onen> mirko-paroli: dos1: I think only apps designed for small screen can go to the desktop. the other way around, it never *really* works. not usable
May 12 17:31:25 <onen> small screens and limited/different input methods need new UI
May 12 17:32:03 <PaulFertser> dos1: isn't it better to hack irssi a bit? ;)
May 12 17:32:40 <dos1> mirko-paroli: that's why i want to write IM for FR
May 12 17:32:53 <mirko-paroli> yeah
May 12 17:32:55 <mirko-paroli> nice
May 12 17:32:58 <mirko-paroli> :)
May 12 17:33:18 <dos1> PaulFertser: it doesn't support jabber :P
May 12 17:34:00 <Blu3> argg
May 12 17:34:10 <Blu3> e is segfaulting
May 12 17:34:22 <Blu3> sigh, did not want to deal with this right now
May 12 17:34:47 <mirko-paroli> dos1: wanna work together this time? :)
May 12 17:34:56 * mirko-paroli takes out his peace-pipe
May 12 17:35:09 <dos1> mirko-paroli: i want to work together all the time ;)
May 12 17:35:55 <mirko-paroli> ;)
May 12 17:36:49 <PaulFertser> dos1: in fact it does
May 12 17:36:50 * mirko-paroli accepts his fate as "blame-taker" :p
May 12 17:36:52 <PaulFertser> dos1: via bitlbee
May 12 17:44:03 <DocScrutinizer> mirko-paroli: heute bis *du* schuld ;-)
May 12 17:44:12 <DocScrutinizer> bisT
May 12 17:44:13 <mirko-paroli> DocScrutinizer: yeah
May 12 17:44:19 <mirko-paroli> I take that blame
May 12 17:44:29 <mirko-paroli> as long as I get my IM with elm and py
May 12 17:44:30 <DocScrutinizer> every blame
May 12 17:44:40 <mirko-paroli> almost :)
May 12 17:46:26 * mrmoku knows what to do now... when the build will fail ;)
May 12 17:50:42 <dos1> i'm able to get roster, avatar, message and to send message
May 12 17:50:58 <dos1> (with script in /examples folder of telepathy-python :D)
May 12 17:51:10 <dos1> so... it shouldn't be so hard ;)
May 12 17:51:15 <dos1> s/script/scripts/
May 12 17:51:16 <bumbl> mrmoku: as sure as dead and taxes
May 12 17:53:11 <dos1> and it seems to be everything i need at first place to use jabber on neo
May 12 17:54:17 <czaks> oh, pidgin is not so bad on the FR compared to other apps, is it?
May 12 17:54:50 <dos1> czaks: yes, i'm using it
May 12 17:55:04 <dos1> but it eates sooo much RAM...
May 12 17:55:13 <dos1> so it's good when it's the only running app
May 12 17:55:21 <czaks> i see
May 12 17:59:19 <mrmoku> dos1: please finish opimd first ;)
May 12 18:00:31 <dos1> mrmoku: and wifi app... and shr-settings... and [some few others unfinnished project]... i know :D
May 12 18:01:06 <mrmoku> dos1: hey... you got the order straight :P opimd - wifi - settings 
May 12 18:02:10 <dos1> mrmoku: have you tested editing and deleting?
May 12 18:02:17 <dos1> mrmoku: now i have only 3 tickets on my papertrac ;p
May 12 18:02:26 <mrmoku> dos1: working on my segfaults...
May 12 18:02:49 <mrmoku> did not retest the SIM edit... but installed the hopefully fixed frameworkd 5 minutes ago
May 12 18:02:54 <mrmoku> so will test now...
May 12 18:03:38 <bumbl> hmm
May 12 18:03:53 <dos1> mrmoku: if it's fixed then i have on my trac: adding new fields to existing contact, removing items from cache when disabling backend and adding SIM contacts
May 12 18:04:25 <dos1> after that using hoversel for domains in opimd shr-settings module
May 12 18:04:31 <dos1> and then Messages domain
May 12 18:04:52 * bumbl is annoyed. Our "educational" politicians are - well stupid
May 12 18:14:20 <BluesLee> can someone tell me how i set correctly the timezone?
May 12 18:14:39 <BluesLee> symbolic link doesnt seem to work here
May 12 18:15:08 <BluesLee> always getting localtime-2 hours when i receive a sms
May 12 18:16:02 <dos1> BluesLee: -testing or -unstable?
May 12 18:16:03 <BluesLee> frameworkd.conf has the following two lines
May 12 18:16:06 <BluesLee> [otimed]
May 12 18:16:06 <BluesLee> zonesources = NONE
May 12 18:16:36 <BluesLee> dos1: testing
May 12 18:16:47 <BluesLee> symbolic link
May 12 18:16:49 <BluesLee> root@om-gta02 ~ $ ls -al /etc/localtime
May 12 18:16:49 <BluesLee> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           33 May 12 20:08 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin
May 12 18:17:05 <dos1> BluesLee: it looks like problem in libframeworkd-phonegui-efl, it should be fixed in unstable
May 12 18:17:13 <Blu3> better than me, i get unixtime(0) -4hrs
May 12 18:17:19 <BluesLee> hmmm
May 12 18:17:20 <dos1> BluesLee: unstable has also other hot features ;)
May 12 18:17:29 <dos1> like name resolving in SMS list
May 12 18:17:31 <Blu3> err
May 12 18:17:39 <BluesLee> dos1: but its unstable;-)
May 12 18:17:51 <dos1> BluesLee: looks like it's now more stable than testing
May 12 18:17:54 <dos1> syscon is fixed
May 12 18:18:00 <Blu3> unstable from this morning segfaults e
May 12 18:18:09 <BluesLee> hehe
May 12 18:18:14 <dos1> only scrolling is... strange.
May 12 18:18:16 <dos1> but still usable
May 12 18:18:53 <BluesLee> can someone upgrade libframeworkd-phonegui-efl in testing?
May 12 18:19:11 <BluesLee> and what about the aux button -lock screen in testing?
May 12 18:19:26 <BluesLee> this is also fixed in unstable i think
May 12 18:19:37 <BluesLee> goes eating
May 12 18:20:08 <dos1> BluesLee: yep. one pixel width of syscon menu is also fixed
May 12 18:25:14 <bumbl> mirko-paroli: deleting list items in I/O does not work when you try to delete the last list item
May 12 18:25:30 <mirko-paroli> oh
May 12 18:25:39 <mirko-paroli> last as in very bottom
May 12 18:25:40 <mirko-paroli> or latest?
May 12 18:27:47 <mrmoku> Blu3: I don't have e segfaults... where do you get them?
May 12 18:28:20 <Blu3> on bootup, past the splash, where it usually tosses the icons on the desktop
May 12 18:29:50 <mrmoku> hm... so it does not even start...
May 12 18:29:51 <mrmoku> strange
May 12 18:29:54 <mrmoku> don't have that
May 12 18:30:32 <mrmoku> Blu3: did you reflash or upgrade from some old unstable
May 12 18:31:44 <max_posedon> latest shr-ustable image have fun sms-messages 
May 12 18:32:25 <Blu3> i just upgraded from this morning.  last upgrade was yesterday
May 12 18:32:49 <vininim> anyone using shr for music playing?
May 12 18:32:52 <max_posedon> looks like it thinks, that neo could show only 10 chars per line
May 12 18:34:12 <Blu3> yep
May 12 18:34:23 <Blu3> 'tis why i tried this morning's update :)
May 12 18:34:48 <mrmoku> the SMS writing bug?
May 12 18:35:16 <Blu3> yup
May 12 18:36:45 <mrmoku> Blu3: some hint in /tmp/x.log?
May 12 18:37:13 <Blu3> when i get back to my desk and can plug my fone in, i'll check
May 12 18:37:19 <mrmoku> ok
May 12 18:38:10 <BluesLee> vininim: use intone
May 12 18:38:37 <dos1> hmm
May 12 18:38:44 <dos1> pidgin guifications are working with illume
May 12 18:38:58 <BluesLee> dos1: i guess i dont use the latest testing, i dont have the one pixel width of syscon menu
May 12 18:39:19 <dos1> maybe we can use the same type of windows to make some notifications
May 12 18:39:35 <BluesLee> dos1: opkg upgrading is not secure or?
May 12 18:40:06 <dos1> is someone developing with elementary on desktop?
May 12 18:40:19 <dos1> i have to run illume on desktop to have window resized correctly...
May 12 18:42:18 <mrmoku> BluesLee: no... have to reflash
May 12 18:43:14 * mwester begins work on a patch to REMOVE the opkg upgrade command.
May 12 18:43:38 <BluesLee> reflashing so often, too much work to configure 
May 12 18:43:47 <mwester> Then wait for a release.
May 12 18:44:19 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: why can't one just prepare a script to opkg remove all e* and shr* stuff and and then to install shr* (which will pull relevant e versions anyway)?
May 12 18:44:44 <mwester> Please sumbit your script when it's written and tested.
May 12 18:45:16 <PaulFertser> mwester: i know that talk is cheap. Well, i'm a cheap guy, i've already get used to it.
May 12 18:45:17 <BluesLee> why does it break everything?
May 12 18:45:55 <BluesLee> its designed for that reason and a big advantage compared to qt* for instance
May 12 18:46:06 <mwester> Because it takes much work to ensure that the dependencies are completely correct, and that all of the post-install scripts run completely and without error, and take all factors into accoutn.
May 12 18:47:04 <mwester> Of course that work must be done -- at some point in time.  If you want the developers to take care that all of those items are done for each and every change that is made, then yoiu must also accept that it will take anywhere from 2 to 4 times longer to get to a release.
May 12 18:47:22 <PaulFertser> mwester: OTOH i once manually upgraded without reinstalling slackware with libc5 to RedHat with glibc (libc6). That's first. And second: i once installed Redhat (probably 6.1) on UMSDOS partition (kinda vfat for Linux). Full manual install, without any installer script whatsoever. And i even didn't know about bash completion at the time. So i can say that i have some experience of _hard_ way of upgrading systems, can't i?
May 12 18:47:39 <mwester> So SHR is simply not bothering with such detail until after the first release.
May 12 18:48:05 <mwester> PaulFertser:  then you don't need to ask the question you did -- you know the answer.
May 12 18:48:43 <PaulFertser> I guess my cases were much harder than upgrading SHR. I'm not implying that SHR devs should ensure good deps, post/pre-install scripts etc. Quite the opposite, i'm suggesting that a "power" user won't need to "reflash".
May 12 18:48:55 <mwester> Yes.
May 12 18:48:57 <mwester> But.
May 12 18:49:32 <PaulFertser> I did all that without any deep unix-understanding btw, i've never actually used any real unix.
May 12 18:50:06 <PaulFertser> My first unix-like system was Slackware 3.5. Installed on 386 with 4M RAM (it was already obsolete by that time).
May 12 18:50:24 <mwester> Let's assume that there are dozens of power users who have been upgrading -- we don't know because they, of course, won't be on the IRC channels pestering the developers for help, because they have solved the problems themselves. :)   Those users know to ignore the advice to NOT upgrade, and they know that if they ignore that advice they shouldn't send flame-mail to the ML complaining about it. :D
May 12 18:50:58 <BluesLee> hehe
May 12 18:51:20 <BluesLee> i have a backup no problem
May 12 18:51:35 <mwester> The problem is the users who DO NOT know -- they attempt to upgrade, then they complain here or on the ML, and take developer time away from developing to do tech support for something that shouldn't work in the first place~!
May 12 18:52:08 <mwester> But no matter.  The release is coming soon, I hope, and then upgrades will have to start working.
May 12 18:52:17 <PaulFertser> Aha, and if they get ignored, they make fuss and it looks like devs are unfriendly and shit... :(
May 12 18:52:38 <mwester> Well, yeah.  But Ainulindale is a master at dealing with that in a firm but polite way.
May 12 18:52:44 <BluesLee> the first impression of a distro is very important
May 12 18:52:48 <mwester> (much better than I, I just piss off people)
May 12 18:53:07 <mwester> BluesLee:  That's why a lot of projects start in a "stealth" mode.
May 12 18:53:13 * PaulFertser pisses off devs
May 12 18:53:15 <PaulFertser> ;)
May 12 18:53:17 <mwester> hehe!
May 12 18:53:26 <BluesLee> what about speed in shr?
May 12 18:53:33 <mwester> secondary.
May 12 18:53:39 <BluesLee> that maybe a problem to some users
May 12 18:53:42 <mwester> yes.
May 12 18:53:52 <mwester> That will be solved after it works correctly.
May 12 18:53:56 <BluesLee> if they tested qt* or android
May 12 18:53:59 <mrmoku> secondary... yeah... with a secondary CPU we could get lots of speed :P
May 12 18:54:05 <BluesLee> :-)
May 12 18:54:18 <mwester> How many CPUs do you want, mrmoku ?   
May 12 18:54:29 <mwester> PaulFertser:  didn't you count the cpus on the FR at one time?
May 12 18:54:42 <mrmoku> mwester: how many do fit into my nice FR case? :P
May 12 18:54:43 <mwester> 4?
May 12 18:54:56 <mrmoku> 4 would be a nice start :)
May 12 18:55:02 <mwester> SoC, GSM, bluetooth, and WiFi, I think.
May 12 18:55:41 <BluesLee> sometimes the distro behaves like slow motion ... i have to remember every time that i am not drunken
May 12 18:55:49 <PaulFertser> mwester: wasn't me.
May 12 18:56:10 <mwester> BluesLee:  but, does it do the right thing in the end?
May 12 18:56:48 <mwester> Probably there will be speedup when the python is re-written in Vala, but there's no point in converting python that doesn't work right.
May 12 18:56:52 <PaulFertser> mwester: gsm has DSP too. And glamo has a core too 
May 12 18:57:07 <mwester> And I forgot the GPS, didn't I?
May 12 18:57:15 <Blu3> mrmoku, http://pastebin.com/d32d06782
May 12 18:57:17 <dos1> mwester: only SHR specific python thing in SHR is shr-settings i think...
May 12 18:57:19 <BluesLee> mwester: last time speed was a big issue for me as i use sortdesk i clicked twice on some categories and lost almost desktop icons
May 12 18:58:20 <BluesLee> mwester: i know its a bad workaround but there is no solution in e/illume for the use of categories or some kind of sorting icons
May 12 18:58:31 <mwester> hey, I stumbled across a project that wants to put the dbus server in-kernel -- that might speed that up too!
May 12 18:59:09 <mwester> BluesLee:  I'm glad you're poking about with that sort of stuff; that would mean that all the low-level and basic stuff is working pretty well by now. :)
May 12 18:59:19 <mrmoku> Blu3: hmm.. not very helpful :(
May 12 18:59:32 <Blu3> i agree
May 12 18:59:52 <BluesLee> mwester: overall i am glad to use it, thats for sure
May 12 19:00:38 <BluesLee> mwester: daniel realived my neo with fixing the buzz;-)
May 12 19:00:57 <mwester> I still have buzz.  :(
May 12 19:00:58 <BluesLee> mwester: and now i want the whole cake;-)
May 12 19:01:31 <PaulFertser> mwester: on GTA01?
May 12 19:01:34 <BluesLee> mwester: no fix?
May 12 19:02:02 <mwester> I just want the basics to work.  So I will go back to trying to sort out how we can make the silly PCF driver tell the usb driver when the cable is yanked.
May 12 19:02:07 <mwester> PaulFertser:  gta02
May 12 19:02:25 <mwester> I haven't spent much time with my gta01 recently.
May 12 19:07:43 <Blu3> mrmoko, update to the pastebin
May 12 19:08:27 <mrmoku> Blu3: BD DO?
May 12 19:08:37 <Blu3> what?
May 12 19:09:20 <Blu3> it looks like a stray svn pkg
May 12 19:09:26 <Blu3> s/pkg/lib/
May 12 19:09:26 <bzzbot> Blu3 meant: it looks like a stray svn lib
May 12 19:16:54 <dos1> mrmoku, mirko-paroli: i already have ugly code which displays jabber roster in elementary list ;)
May 12 19:17:06 <mirko-paroli> hehe nice
May 12 19:17:19 <mirko-paroli> angus is about to put the stuff I need in our unstable
May 12 19:17:26 <mirko-paroli> so i'll have a look tomorrow
May 12 19:17:55 <mirko-paroli> well today for me, but yeah
May 12 19:18:07 <mirko-paroli> let's think global :)
May 12 19:18:20 <dos1> mrmoku: can you try to build telepathy-python?
May 12 19:19:10 <mrmoku> dos1: no! it will just distract you :P
May 12 19:19:19 <mrmoku> dos1: we have higher targets ;)
May 12 19:19:44 <dos1> mrmoku: no... now it's only "preview research" for me ;D
May 12 19:20:09 <mrmoku> dos1: yeah... exactly... but instead of doing "preview research" you could do all those nice thingies ;D
May 12 19:20:10 <dos1> mrmoku: like i did with opimd... ...about mouth before i started to real work ;p
May 12 19:20:24 <mrmoku> nah... ok
May 12 19:20:28 <mrmoku> will see if it builds ;)
May 12 19:20:41 <dos1> mrmoku: yeah... like homework in math ;)
May 12 19:20:47 <BluesLee_> mrmoku: what about this paroli stuff, will it be integrated in shr?
May 12 19:20:54 <dos1> or math's homework...
May 12 19:21:04 * dos1 thing he should do more english homeworks :D
May 12 19:21:13 <dos1> s/thing/thinks/
May 12 19:22:12 <mrmoku> I have no idea what it consists of... and if it would conflict with ophonekitd somehow...
May 12 19:22:28 <dos1> mrmoku: telepathy?
May 12 19:22:36 <mrmoku> paroli
May 12 19:22:49 <mrmoku> ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'python-telepathy'
May 12 19:22:58 <dos1> mrmoku: telepathy-python
May 12 19:23:05 <mrmoku> gahh
May 12 19:23:09 <Blu3> ugg
May 12 19:23:15 <mirko-paroli> mrmoku: why would it conflict with ophonekitd ?
May 12 19:23:23 <Blu3> mrmoku, what version of ecore-x do you have installed?
May 12 19:23:30 <mirko-paroli> mrmoku: not pushing, just curious
May 12 19:23:40 <mrmoku> mirko-paroli: what happens if both react on incoming calls or messages?
May 12 19:23:45 <dos1> mirko-paroli: some time before i have seen overwriting some files from other packages by paroli package
May 12 19:23:51 <dos1> like e themes etc.
May 12 19:23:57 <mirko-paroli> dos1: yeah the elementary theme ...
May 12 19:23:58 <dos1> mirko-paroli: it's still done that way?
May 12 19:24:06 <mirko-paroli> sadly so
May 12 19:24:11 * mirko-paroli curses the bindings
May 12 19:24:20 <mrmoku> Blu3: ecore-x - 2:0.9.9.050+svnr40567-r2 - 
May 12 19:24:35 <Blu3> is that giving you pre-svn libs in /usr/lib?
May 12 19:24:59 <mrmoku> Package ecore-x (2:0.9.9.050+svnr40567-r2) is installed on root and has the following files:
May 12 19:25:02 <mrmoku> /usr/lib/libecore_x-ver-pre-svn-01.so.0
May 12 19:25:04 <mrmoku> /usr/lib/libecore_x-ver-pre-svn-01.so.0.9.9
May 12 19:25:06 <Blu3> hmm
May 12 19:25:30 <Blu3> well, i uninstalled all of e and reinstalled, still segfaulting
May 12 19:26:06 <mrmoku> Blu3: did you try to remove .e
May 12 19:26:17 <Blu3> no, gonna try that next
May 12 19:27:06 <naeg> Blu3, i had this problem also with e all the time segfaulting, because i made settings with illumte-settings. i solved it by reflashing the whole system
May 12 19:27:15 <Blu3> :>
May 12 19:27:29 <Blu3> there's oodles of ways to do things on here, they don't all like each other :/
May 12 19:28:10 <naeg> i am relativly sure that illume-settings is the reason. tried it a second time and again all the time segfaults
May 12 19:29:44 <dos1> naeg: rm -rf ~/.e
May 12 19:29:53 <dos1> naeg: reflash is unnecessary ;p
May 12 19:30:28 <naeg> yeah...but in this moment reflashing seemed to be the easiest way to me : )
May 12 19:30:31 <Blu3> sigh, wiping .e fixed it.
May 12 19:30:39 <dos1> i'm reflashing only when i'm changing distro or there are some problems in fresh image (which i don't have on my system) which i want to fix :P
May 12 19:31:02 <Blu3> i only reflash when _really_ necessary.  i prefer to figure out why something broke
May 12 19:31:19 <dos1> Blu3: as me
May 12 19:31:38 <naeg> i knew why: illume settings : )
May 12 19:31:40 <dos1> or as I
May 12 19:31:41 <dos1> ;D
May 12 19:32:06 <Blu3> =]
May 12 19:34:17 <Blu3> which messages package is "fixed", i.e. shows contact names and proper timestamps?
May 12 19:36:15 <Blu3> i have shr-messages 0.0.2+gitr633+2e567013fc3dc564f949dcce4eec26754b8d5ef9-r7 installed and it doesn't do either
May 12 19:36:45 <dos1> Blu3: shr-messages has nothing to do with names... check if you have libframeworkd-phonegui-efl0 upgraded
May 12 19:37:15 <Blu3> 0.0.2+gitr635+600e2110db8dbf9fd246d0e40c1c727dbcdca0d7-r30
May 12 19:40:38 <mrmoku> dos1: have it... but don't play tooo much ;)
May 12 19:40:59 <dos1> mrmoku: thanks :) i just want to check speed on FR with my roster ;)
May 12 19:41:38 <Blu3> removed and reinstalled libframeworkd-phonegui-efl0 even, messages still don't display with the contact name.  is the contact name set when the message is fetched, or when it's incoming and stored?
May 12 19:44:37 <mrmoku> Blu3: contact name is looked up on the fly while building the list
May 12 19:44:53 <Blu3> aye, i thought that is what it was
May 12 19:45:25 <mrmoku> Blu3: 0.0.2+gitr635+600e2110db8dbf9fd246d0e40c1c727dbcdca0d7-r30
May 12 19:45:42 <Blu3> that's what i have
May 12 19:45:46 <mrmoku> Blu3: one thing though... numbers in contacts have to *exactly* match
May 12 19:46:07 <mrmoku> if you have the contacts stored without +xxxxx it won't find them
May 12 19:46:34 <Blu3> ok, so i have to change my fone numbers to have a 1 prefix
May 12 19:47:04 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: it looks like vala-native did compile :)
May 12 19:47:15 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: good to hear :)
May 12 19:47:38 <Blu3> mrmoko, that's fixed. how about timestamps? ;)
May 12 19:48:32 <dos1> Blu3: cat /etc/localtime?
May 12 19:49:03 <Blu3> root@nibbly-bits:~# cat /etc/localtime
May 12 19:49:03 <Blu3> TZif2����GMT+4TZif2����GMT+4
May 12 19:49:03 <Blu3> <GMT+4>4
May 12 19:49:27 <dos1> cat /etc/timezone?
May 12 19:50:02 <Blu3> root@nibbly-bits:~# cat /etc/timezone
May 12 19:50:03 <Blu3> Europe/London
May 12 19:50:20 <dos1> Blu3: i don't think it's correct ;)
May 12 19:50:21 <Blu3> it's not the timezone being incorrect.  my sms messages (in the applet) show unixtime(0)
May 12 19:50:30 <Blu3> i don't care about the TZ right now
May 12 19:50:40 <dos1> Blu3: oh. that's worse
May 12 19:50:41 <dos1> ;x
May 12 19:50:44 <Blu3> the text message on the card has the right timestamp
May 12 19:50:58 <Blu3> the timestamp isn't making it to the applet
May 12 19:51:14 <BluesLee> same here
May 12 19:52:36 <mrmoku> Blu3: with applet you mean the view of the message? and the list is correct?
May 12 19:53:03 <Blu3> view of the message.  if i fetch it w/ mdbus, the timestamp is correct
May 12 19:53:25 <Blu3> the listing of text messages in the gui has unixtime(0)
May 12 19:53:34 <Blu3> (with TZ offset)
May 12 19:58:18 <BluesLee> how do i rotate the screen?
May 12 19:58:33 <Blu3> dunno
May 12 19:58:39 <BluesLee> dunno?
May 12 19:58:43 <larsc> xrandr -o 1
May 12 19:58:44 <mrmoku> you can do that with illume-settings ;)
May 12 19:59:16 <BluesLee> dont say its implemented in unstable
May 12 19:59:19 <Blu3> illume-settings seems to have a bad track record ^_^ :P
May 12 19:59:44 <dos1> mrmoku: can you also build libtelepathy and telepathy-gabble?
May 12 19:59:48 <BluesLee> mrmoku: where do i find it?
May 12 20:00:03 <Blu3> erm.  adding new contacts seems to have inherited the 10 char wrap bug
May 12 20:00:10 <mrmoku> dos1: will do in 3min
May 12 20:00:16 <dos1> mrmoku: thanks ;)
May 12 20:00:42 <mrmoku> BluesLee: screen - resolution
May 12 20:01:45 <BluesLee> mrmoku: doesnt work
May 12 20:02:00 <Blu3> xrandr -o 1 works
May 12 20:02:12 <BluesLee> mrmoku: works
May 12 20:02:20 <mrmoku> yep :)
May 12 20:02:48 <BluesLee> good one
May 12 20:02:54 <wurp2|working> So does the fix for the system menu that's showing up on FSO carry through automatically to SHR, or does someone need to promote it?
May 12 20:03:30 <dos1> wurp2|working: it was in FSO after SHR had it ;)
May 12 20:03:34 <mrmoku> wurp2|working: is in unstable since long ;)
May 12 20:03:37 <wurp2|working> excellent!
May 12 20:03:52 <BluesLee> mrmoku: a shelf gadget for rotation would be optimal
May 12 20:04:04 <wurp2|working> I had heard people talking about menu problems within the last day or two so I didn't realize the fix was in SHR yet
May 12 20:04:25 <mrmoku> well it is not yet in testing... because we're still testing ;)
May 12 20:04:34 <jonquark> For rotation what about omnewrotate? works well here
May 12 20:04:44 <mrmoku> and in fact... the new EFL made a bug in the SMS app show up
May 12 20:05:04 <mrmoku> omnewrotate gets on my nerves fast :P
May 12 20:05:08 <BluesLee> mrmoku: why not add rotation to an aux menu
May 12 20:05:13 <dos1> mrmoku: which bug?
May 12 20:05:17 <dos1> line wrapping?
May 12 20:05:21 <mrmoku> dos1: yep
May 12 20:05:41 <BluesLee> aux: rotation, kbd, lock screen ...
May 12 20:05:43 <mrmoku> the entry was missing size hints to make it take the full scroller space :P
May 12 20:05:49 <mrmoku> don't know why it worked before
May 12 20:06:57 <dos1> mrmoku: new scrolling in EFL is also... not optimal ;p
May 12 20:07:20 <dos1> mrmoku: look at shr-settings modules, and try to change backlight value for instance
May 12 20:08:18 <mrmoku> dos1: yeah, already noticed
May 12 20:08:49 <mrmoku> dos1: looking at elementary_test source I found a new elm function
May 12 20:09:18 <dos1> mrmoku: what function?
May 12 20:09:27 <mrmoku>     elm_scroller_policy_set(data->sc, ELM_SCROLLER_POLICY_OFF, ELM_SCROLLER_POLICY_ON);
May 12 20:10:41 <mrmoku> guess you can turn on/off scrolling for x / y 
May 12 20:11:19 <dos1> mrmoku: hmm... i will look at it... and check, if python-elementary has binding for it :x
May 12 20:28:12 <Blu3> hmmm, what's the alsa ctl for "very bad feedback" complaint from someone on the other end of the phone?
May 12 20:28:35 <mrmoku> dos1: building now
May 12 20:28:50 <mrmoku> any frameworkd.log experts around?
May 12 20:28:52 <mrmoku> http://pastebin.ca/1420875
May 12 20:30:19 <fale> hi
May 12 20:30:34 <mrmoku> 2009.05.12 22:15:10.688 ogsmd.channel        ERROR    (ignoring) unhandled exception in response callback: string index out of range
May 12 20:31:09 <mrmoku> Blu3: use the *good* alsa state file :P
May 12 20:31:27 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: I'm now trying to compile my package
May 12 20:31:39 <Deubeuliou> I get this error during the do_compile;
May 12 20:31:40 <Deubeuliou> checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.
May 12 20:31:43 <Deubeuliou> If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.
May 12 20:31:47 <Blu3> heh, everyone has their own opinion of a "good" state file
May 12 20:32:13 <Deubeuliou> I have a configure.ac and a src/Makefile.am that are similar to libfso-glib's
May 12 20:32:14 <mrmoku> Blu3: according to DocScrutinizer there is only one :P
May 12 20:32:21 <wurp2|working> Blu3: Really?  The default one I got with SHR works great
May 12 20:32:24 <Blu3> of course
May 12 20:32:29 <dos1> Blu3: there is only one good (in official meaning)
May 12 20:32:50 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: time for a frameworkd problem? :)
May 12 20:33:06 <Blu3> well, i'm also trying to get my BT headset working, only get silence with occasional ticks on it
May 12 20:34:03 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: nope, i'm already sleeping, sorry ;)
May 12 20:34:32 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: wake up then :P see devs can be the pest too :P
May 12 20:35:04 <max_posedon> Deubeuliou, for cross compilation you usually wants setup many autoconf variables
May 12 20:35:06 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: sleep well then :)
May 12 20:35:10 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: did you manage to build a vala app that is using libfso-glib ?
May 12 20:35:16 <PaulFertser> Blu3: oh, so you got it somehow working and FSO tries to route audio there etc?
May 12 20:35:25 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: did not try yet
May 12 20:35:26 <Deubeuliou> max_posedon: I'm simply using bitbake
May 12 20:35:39 <Deubeuliou> Isn't it suppose to do the job ?
May 12 20:35:42 <Deubeuliou> ok mrmoku
May 12 20:35:44 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: if you ask the question now i might find an answer while i'll be dreaming ;)
May 12 20:35:45 <max_posedon> Deubeuliou, and I'm simply use emerge)
May 12 20:35:52 <Blu3> yeah, i hacked up BtHeadset to use more correct path/method names
May 12 20:35:54 <max_posedon> it suppose, look at site directory
May 12 20:35:58 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: http://pastebin.ca/1420875
May 12 20:36:14 <Blu3> just can't get the fone to send audio to it
May 12 20:36:44 <max_posedon> but if you trying compile smth which wants new autoconf variables (say new coreutils-7.4 for example), you may be want add there new variables
May 12 20:37:10 <Deubeuliou> max_posedon: I mean: other packages I compiled don't have anything special regarding cross compilation in their Makefiles.am nor configure.ac
May 12 20:37:22 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: you'll need to show Daniel more info, including the PDU in question.
May 12 20:37:34 <mrmoku> should all be managed by bitbake
May 12 20:37:37 <max_posedon> Deubeuliou, they have
May 12 20:37:42 <max_posedon> look at "site" folder
May 12 20:37:45 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: ahh, so it is something with a message?
May 12 20:38:05 <mrmoku> fale: could you set DEBUG as loglevel in /etc/frameworkd.conf and reboot?
May 12 20:38:12 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: thanks
May 12 20:38:13 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: looks like some garbled SMS triggers a traceback due to inadequate validation of PDU fields.
May 12 20:38:29 <Deubeuliou> max_posedon: what "site" folder ? I have no such
May 12 20:38:42 <mrmoku> ptitjes: ping
May 12 20:38:45 <fale> mrmoku: yes, in a few seconds I'll be able to do that
May 12 20:39:27 <PaulFertser> Blu3: what was wrong with the wiki instructions then? Is simple-agent at fault or what?
May 12 20:39:29 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: what package are you building? your gtk2 thingie?
May 12 20:39:33 <Deubeuliou> yes
May 12 20:39:36 <max_posedon> Deubeuliou, of course you have, smth like shr-unstable/openembedded/site/
May 12 20:39:37 <mrmoku> is the recipe somewehere?
May 12 20:39:46 <Deubeuliou> max_posedon: yes, indeed, sorry
May 12 20:39:53 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: I can send it to the git
May 12 20:40:06 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: the overlay though...
May 12 20:40:13 <Deubeuliou> mmh ok
May 12 20:40:16 <Blu3> not sure, after the initial pairing problems being unreliable, it now pairs reliably.  not sure why it had issues to start with
May 12 20:40:29 <Deubeuliou> I'm not sure how to commit that, though
May 12 20:40:32 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: or just pastebin it
May 12 20:41:30 <Deubeuliou> 'k
May 12 20:41:33 <CIA-75> SHR: 03deubeuliou 07libframeworkd-phonegui-gtk2 * r69af8dd79a6a 10/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am): changes inspired from libfso-glib
May 12 20:41:46 <PaulFertser> Blu3: What's BtHeadset you tweaked, is it part of frameworkd?
May 12 20:42:09 <mrmoku> dos1: ERROR: QA Issue: libtelepathy.pc failed sanity test (tmpdir) in path /home/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/staging/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/pkgconfig
May 12 20:42:31 <Blu3> it's on that wiki page
May 12 20:42:38 <Blu3> BtHeadset.py
May 12 20:43:08 <dos1> mrmoku: uh... not good ;x
May 12 20:43:14 <PaulFertser> Blu3: (wrt echo on remote side) fso already sends a command to modem to suppress it. Should work o-o-b
May 12 20:43:38 <PaulFertser> Blu3: BtHeadset.py? That's not part of the recommended instructions at all, that's something outdated for om2008 probably.
May 12 20:43:52 <Blu3> for some reason the mic was set up really high
May 12 20:44:22 <PaulFertser> Blu3: once you paired and configured FSO by enabling bt-headset and setting bdaddr it should do everything needed by itself...
May 12 20:44:31 <fale> mrmoku: I'm waiting the "wind" test to appear ;)
May 12 20:44:35 <Blu3> nope
May 12 20:44:53 <PaulFertser> Blu3: yep, can be that, ambient noise getting on the mic preventing echo suppression.
May 12 20:45:13 <PaulFertser> Blu3: BtHeadset.py is clearly not needed.
May 12 20:45:36 <Blu3> i'll give the bt headset another try, gotta do it later tho.  other pokers in the fire right now
May 12 20:46:01 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: I used to use a local folder for SRC_URI, and changed it to use the repo before pasting it to you but .... the fetch is curious, and fails
May 12 20:46:11 * PaulFertser wonders how can one misintepret instructions _that_ much :-/
May 12 20:46:30 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: paste it anyway
May 12 20:46:39 <PaulFertser> And there's the source readily available on the device, just grep and less is enough to understand it...
May 12 20:46:48 <Blu3> PF, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth
May 12 20:47:07 <Blu3> it's in the instructions for using a bt headset
May 12 20:47:15 <Deubeuliou> http://pastebin.com/d3d617d56
May 12 20:48:02 <PaulFertser> Blu3: only  Once Again, Bluetooth Headset on Freerunner there is right, everything else is fucking outdated.
May 12 20:48:18 <PaulFertser> s/right/aiming to be right/
May 12 20:48:20 <bzzbot> PaulFertser meant: Blu3: only  Once Again, Bluetooth Headset on Freerunner there is aiming to be right, everything else is fucking outdated.
May 12 20:48:46 <PaulFertser> Obviously
May 12 20:48:50 <Blu3> well, delete that stuff from the wiki page then!
May 12 20:49:05 <PaulFertser> Blu3: many people still use OM2008 for whatever reason :-/
May 12 20:49:06 <Blu3> obviously....
May 12 20:49:47 <Blu3> probably a whole hell of a lot of people because phones get shipped with whatever and the instructions are a fucking spiderweb tangle of mismatched information!
May 12 20:50:34 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: ok... fetch failing is clear :)
May 12 20:50:49 <mrmoku> you have to use the http:// git url for OE
May 12 20:50:59 <Blu3> why not just delete the entire "Bluetooth Headset on Freerunner" section from the wiki if it's "fucking outdated" ?
May 12 20:51:01 <mrmoku> and set SRCREV to something different than LOCAL
May 12 20:51:04 <Deubeuliou> ah, ok
May 12 20:51:11 <Deubeuliou> ${AUTOREV}
May 12 20:51:20 <PaulFertser> Blu3: no, they just don't want to listen and read. I've written several times at community mailing list and elsewhere that OM2008 is deprecated. It was in November. In fact om2008 was dead-born, most sane devs saw that very soon after the initial ASU announcement.
May 12 20:51:41 <PaulFertser> Blu3: because om2008 users are nasty and i don't want to conflict with them.
May 12 20:51:44 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: trying to build it now...
May 12 20:51:51 <Blu3> ok, find / -iname om2008 -rmthefucknow
May 12 20:52:35 <Blu3> leaving all these outdated instructions on the wikis makes for fscking frustrated users
May 12 20:53:15 <Blu3> nobody but the active devs knows wtf is accurate because everything outside the dev circle is a tangleweb of mismatched outdated information
May 12 20:53:35 <fale> mrmoku: http://pastebin.ca/1420917 this is the result ;)
May 12 20:54:04 <PaulFertser> Blu3: no, you don't understand. Many users complained they don't want to use FSO/SHR because it's slow/unstable/whatever. And because they invested their time in OM2008-qtopia-bastard. So devs didn't care about OM2008 but keeped information not to upset insane users.
May 12 20:54:14 <Blu3> that goes for a fair bit of the comments that are still in -unstable config files.  things people use as information
May 12 20:54:15 <mrmoku> fale: wrong log :)
May 12 20:54:24 <PaulFertser> Blu3: those users refused to listen to devs, really.
May 12 20:54:25 <mrmoku> /var/log/frameworkd.log... not logread
May 12 20:54:51 <Blu3> i'm not one of those users, i wiped om2008 and put shr-unstable on the day i got the fone
May 12 20:54:55 <fale> mrmoku: -.- sorry, my brain is on strike, today
May 12 20:55:11 <PaulFertser> Blu3: i'm not accusing you of anything.
May 12 20:55:17 <Blu3> but a LOT of the wiki information has very little current information and a hell of a lot of outdated information
May 12 20:55:23 <PaulFertser> Blu3: btw, i'm not a dev so you can't accuse me of anything too ;)
May 12 20:55:27 <mrmoku> fale: no problem :)
May 12 20:55:42 <wurp2|working> Does anyone know of a good matte screen protector for FR?  I'm thinking that plus an icon to switch to 100% brightness + a black background could make it much more readable outdoors
May 12 20:56:14 <Blu3> i'm not.  i'm not accusing anyone particularly.  i'm explaining why people who aren't intimately familiar with things get very frustrated when you (someone) points them to a wiki.  the wiki has outdated info on it
May 12 20:56:35 <Blu3> like this "Bluetooth Headset on Freerunner" section
May 12 20:56:50 <fale> mrmoku: http://pastebin.ca/1420921 :)
May 12 20:57:04 * dent agrees w Blu3
May 12 20:57:24 <Blu3> the "Once Again, Bluetooth Headset on Freerunner" which immediately follows "Bluetooth Headset on Freerunner" is also out of date
May 12 20:57:42 <Blu3> but that depends if you're running -unstable or -somethingelse
May 12 20:57:48 <PaulFertser> Blu3: probably the most confusion is due to OM2008 and FSO being completely different and people fail to understand it.
May 12 20:58:35 <PaulFertser> Blu3: i thought i fixed it, now it stays that if one's running unstable, he doesn't need to tweak configs and download the statefile. Could you please recheck?
May 12 20:58:50 <mrmoku> alphaone|gone: if you have time for a SMS.decode problem... http://pastebin.ca/1420921
May 12 20:59:09 <Blu3> ok, that's better
May 12 20:59:10 <mrmoku> ahh... THW tonight... forgot about :)
May 12 20:59:35 <PaulFertser> Blu3: did it right after you reported it's already there in unstable the day before yesterday.
May 12 20:59:41 <Blu3> now how about put the preceding "Bluetooth Headset on Freerunner" section in some box or note or something that says "this is for fucking ollllllllllllllld shit and does noooooooooot work!"
May 12 20:59:43 <fale> mrmoku: maybe I should update?
May 12 21:00:30 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: what did you put in SRC_URI ? I can't find anything valid ...
May 12 21:00:58 <Deubeuliou> I tried bot git and http URIs, with different protocols
May 12 21:04:22 <PaulFertser> Blu3: done http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Bluetooth_Headset_on_Freerunner
May 12 21:04:46 <Blu3> hahahah, thank you :)
May 12 21:05:37 <PaulFertser> Blu3: though i believe that you being a native speaker could describe that in a more elegant way ;)
May 12 21:05:55 <Blu3> i think "deprecated shit" works well enough
May 12 21:06:21 <Blu3> i'm sure someone will come along to massage that into a more PC vernacular
May 12 21:08:48 <Blu3> uhhhh, what's a thin red line across the bottom of a blank screen mean?
May 12 21:09:20 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: I'm stupid... correct SRC_URI is git://...../repo/.....git;protocol=http
May 12 21:09:32 <mrmoku> fale: don't think it would help
May 12 21:09:46 <mrmoku> fale: problem is one of your messages
May 12 21:09:53 <fale> ah, ok
May 12 21:10:07 <Blu3> sigh, i was -just- saying the phone is reliable
May 12 21:10:19 <mrmoku> and it looks like it triggers some bug in frameworkd sms parsing
May 12 21:10:22 <fale> mrmoku: than I could put the sim in another phone and remove the smss?
May 12 21:10:34 <fale> which can be the error?
May 12 21:10:41 <fale> an accented character?
May 12 21:10:56 <mrmoku> don't know
May 12 21:11:15 <fale> in italian we always have accented characters :S
May 12 21:11:19 <Blu3> framework did have a bug sometime back with msgs.  i had to put my sim in another phone and delete them
May 12 21:11:54 <fale> Blu3: exactly what I'm going to do now ;)
May 12 21:11:56 <mrmoku> well we should fix that bug...
May 12 21:12:22 <fale> btw, any PIM development?
May 12 21:12:56 <Blu3> it was actually a couple bugs.  one was text messages didn't actually get deleted when framework thought they were.  the other was with binary data and i think that bug is still around 
May 12 21:13:28 <mrmoku> binary data is what I would guess...
May 12 21:13:37 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: building lots of gtk stuff now :P
May 12 21:13:39 * Blu3 waits for the fone to finish booting and signing on air
May 12 21:14:19 <wurp2|working> Do people still have to reboot their phone once a day or so with moko11?
May 12 21:15:41 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: ok, the url works :)
May 12 21:15:50 <Deubeuliou> but it seems like the package is empty ...
May 12 21:15:55 <Blu3> i rebooted my phone because it crashed hard
May 12 21:16:23 <Deubeuliou> plus, it builds a -dev and a -dbg ipk
May 12 21:16:30 <Deubeuliou> and no regular one
May 12 21:16:36 <Blu3> oh sweet.  /etc/frameworkd.conf disappeared
May 12 21:16:40 <Blu3> ^_^
May 12 21:16:42 <Deubeuliou> (i'll see what is in this site/ directory)
May 12 21:17:48 <fale> my old phone only look for sms in SD card or Phone memory ;(
May 12 21:18:29 <Blu3> so does this fone until opimd gets going
May 12 21:18:35 <Blu3> only on the SD card atm.
May 12 21:18:58 <m0nt0> Ainulindale, have you seen my mail?
May 12 21:22:21 <wurp2|working> Blu3: Yeah, that doesn't sound too important.  It'll probably work fine without it.
May 12 21:22:38 <Blu3> frameworkd.conf?  ;-)
May 12 21:22:44 <wurp2|working> yeah
May 12 21:22:46 <wurp2|working> You don't need that
May 12 21:22:49 <wurp2|working> ;-)
May 12 21:22:52 <Blu3> it's so fast and efficient, it finishes and exits immediately!
May 12 21:23:56 <fale> mrmoku: nothing solved. I hope that someone will fix the bug soon
May 12 21:24:44 <mrmoku> fale: will see if alphaone|gone can take a look tomorrow...
May 12 21:25:02 <fale> mrmoku: thank you :)
May 12 21:25:09 <Blu3> luckily i use joe, so i had frameworkd.conf~
May 12 21:29:05 <mrmoku> nytowl: yeah... it built... and it booted :D
May 12 21:29:43 <nytowl> that was just updating the autotools and doing a build from scratch ?
May 12 21:29:57 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: did it build ?
May 12 21:30:12 <mrmoku> adding the om-2009 include to openmoko.conf and build from scratch
May 12 21:30:22 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: not your gtk thingie... it is still building
May 12 21:30:53 <nytowl> mrmoku, so mokomaze 0.5.1 will build now ?
May 12 21:30:59 <Deubeuliou> since how long ??
May 12 21:31:16 <Deubeuliou> it takes less than 1 minute to compile
May 12 21:31:16 <Blu3> dos1, you're opimd man, right?
May 12 21:31:20 <mrmoku> nytowl: I hope so
May 12 21:31:26 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: is building gtk+ now...
May 12 21:31:30 <Deubeuliou> ah, ok
May 12 21:32:49 <mrmoku> nytowl: trying now
May 12 21:33:07 <mrmoku> ahh... moment... it was ode having the problem...
May 12 21:33:56 <Blu3> oh good grief.  more files in /etc/ are missing
May 12 21:34:54 <Blu3> meh, which pkg has /etc/freesmartphone/ogsmd/networks.tab in it? 
May 12 21:36:18 <dos1|neo> mrmoku: so... have you tested opimd?
May 12 21:36:18 <dos1|neo> sim update/delete
May 12 21:36:45 <nytowl> dos1|neo, are you using pidgin
May 12 21:36:49 <Blu3> dos1, you're opimd man, right?  is there a script or install function that makes the initial db?
May 12 21:37:44 <Weiss> lindi-: can i take from the latest commit to xf86-video-glamo that your problem has been fixed? or is this something else?
May 12 21:38:06 <mrmoku> dos1|neo: looks like it works... I still have a segfault in my stuff I can't find... but frameworkd does not hang anymore :)
May 12 21:38:54 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: building libfso-glib now :)
May 12 21:40:33 <CIA-75> SHR: 03dos 07shr-settings * rb60e32b24e23 10/playground/wifiman.py: [playground] wifiman.py: try to connect woth connman twice
May 12 21:40:35 <m0nt0> mrmoku, so opimd is now live??
May 12 21:41:06 <dos1|neo> nytowl: yep, pidgin
May 12 21:41:08 <mrmoku> m0nt0: bah... live ;)
May 12 21:41:17 <m0nt0> lol, unstable?
May 12 21:41:19 <dos1|neo> Blu3: what initial db?
May 12 21:41:19 <mrmoku> still some work to do
May 12 21:41:26 <m0nt0> ok
May 12 21:41:26 <Blu3> the sqlite db
May 12 21:41:28 <mrmoku> yep, unstable
May 12 21:41:40 <mrmoku> hope to sort that out until end of week though
May 12 21:41:51 <dos1|neo> Blu3: just use it
May 12 21:41:58 <Blu3> errors
May 12 21:42:15 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: ok, build completed...
May 12 21:42:24 <m0nt0> mrmoku, don't say so if it's not sure :D
May 12 21:42:40 <dos1|neo> m0nt0: i'm working on opimd from frameworkd side, and mrmoku is working on it from phonegui side
May 12 21:42:41 <mrmoku> hehe
May 12 21:42:44 <Blu3> dos1, http://pastebin.ca/1420967
May 12 21:43:26 <mrmoku> Blu3: mkdir /etc/freesmartphone/opim
May 12 21:43:46 <dos1|neo> oh!
May 12 21:44:06 <m0nt0> dos1|neo, i'm interested in frameworkd side, mrmoku work is precious but first we need a frameworkd opimd stable
May 12 21:44:08 <dos1|neo> i checked situation with db deleted
May 12 21:44:39 <dos1|neo> but i didn't check which dir removed ;x
May 12 21:45:07 <dos1|neo> Blu3: i'll fix code soon, now please use mrmoku's workaround
May 12 21:45:15 <Blu3> i had to pull the battery when the red line appeared, no way to issue a sysrq-sync
May 12 21:45:20 <Blu3> *nod*
May 12 21:45:31 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: my gtk package did compile ? and the IPKs are not empty ?
May 12 21:45:48 <dos1|neo> m0nt0: Contacts domain should work good now
May 12 21:45:51 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: it successfully built... checking size now
May 12 21:46:37 <dos1|neo> m0nt0: only adding newfields to existing contact is missing
May 12 21:46:38 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou: hehe, ok... around 700 Bytes... might call it empty, yeah ;)
May 12 21:47:11 <dos1|neo> m0nt0: after that one feature for SIM backend (adding)
May 12 21:47:41 <dos1|neo> m0nt0: and then one generic, backend thing
May 12 21:48:14 <dos1|neo> m0nt0: and i will say "Contacts are finished ATM" ;)
May 12 21:48:26 <m0nt0> dos1|neo, wohoo :D
May 12 21:48:53 <mrmoku> and opimd contacts are a *lot* faster then the ones from SIM :D
May 12 21:49:12 <nytowl> dos1|neo, you can type pretty quick with that stylus
May 12 21:50:15 <Blu3> speaking of typing.  how do i get rid of that "smart" keyboard and make the terminal one the default?
May 12 21:51:39 <mrmoku> mickeyl: hey, interested in a debug log of a failing SMS.decode?
May 12 21:52:15 <dos1|neo> nytowl: i'm not using stylus ;>
May 12 21:52:52 <nytowl> dos1|neo, bt, usb or speech to txt ;)
May 12 21:53:27 <dos1|neo> nytowl: illume terminal keyboard and finger
May 12 21:53:36 <mrmoku> nytowl: yeah... ode-0.11 succesfully built :)
May 12 21:53:46 <dos1|neo> (more fingernail than finger ofc)
May 12 21:54:05 <mickeyl> mrmoku: sure, although this is rather alphaone|gone's domain
May 12 21:54:14 <mickeyl> if you have the SMS, please forward it to us
May 12 21:54:15 <mrmoku> mickeyl: http://pastebin.ca/1420921
May 12 21:54:29 <nytowl> great mrmoku keep me upto date if anything else breaks, I'm messing with intiscripts right now
May 12 21:54:30 <dos1|neo> nytowl: people usually don't trust me ;D
May 12 21:54:34 <mrmoku> fale: could you forward the SMS?
May 12 21:55:00 <mrmoku> nytowl: ok, trying to build mokomaze now
May 12 21:55:02 <nytowl> dos1|neo, name you must have pointy fingers
May 12 21:56:11 <mrmoku> there are rumors that dos1|neo is using a pencil sharpener once a week ;)
May 12 21:56:38 <dos1|neo> nytowl: that's why i wouln't want to have capacitive touchscreen
May 12 21:56:50 <dos1|neo> mrmoku: haha ;D
May 12 21:57:30 <nytowl> dos1|neo, oh yeah preaching to the choir on that one
May 12 21:58:43 <DocScrutinizer> nytowl: (initscripts) please check if we can get rid of loading a "default" alsa.state. This honestly should be done by whomever is intending to output any sound, rathen than on init.d
May 12 21:59:03 <DocScrutinizer> dos1|neo: amazing anyway
May 12 21:59:16 <DocScrutinizer> dos1|neo: (C-TS) 100% ACK
May 12 21:59:28 <mickeyl> ptitjes: no time for updating yet?
May 12 21:59:37 <nytowl> nytowl, it was on the list but right now it just restores the states from the last shutdown
May 12 21:59:54 <Blu3> doc, wouldn't it be good to restore state on startup?
May 12 21:59:58 <nytowl> DocScrutinizer,  if it does install a default one it will be stereo out
May 12 22:00:02 <mrmoku> and frameworkd restores the default one on startup
May 12 22:00:05 <ptitjes> mickeyl: hum got merge conflicts
May 12 22:00:13 <mickeyl> ouch
May 12 22:00:14 <mickeyl> ok
May 12 22:00:20 <mickeyl> take your time, not urgent
May 12 22:00:33 <mickeyl> yo alphaone 
May 12 22:00:38 <nytowl> if frameworkd does one too then I'll drop the alsa-restore
May 12 22:01:13 <alphaone> yo mickeyl 
May 12 22:01:13 <DocScrutinizer> nytowl: (stereo) I know. Should be duty of any process wanting to output sound though, as no process could rely on stereoout.state being restored for the process by anyone else
May 12 22:02:28 <DocScrutinizer> nytowl: chances are the processes doind audio actually obey this policy and restoring any alsa.state in init is a waste of time anyway
May 12 22:03:13 <mickeyl> alphaone: got that pastebin?
May 12 22:03:29 <alphaone> Yeah, I'm looking at it now
May 12 22:03:34 <DocScrutinizer> if any process relies on stereoout being restored at system boot, this is broken by design and needs a fix
May 12 22:05:18 <DocScrutinizer> nytowl: even much more important: DO NOT store alsa.state to any default file on system shutdown!
May 12 22:05:55 <DocScrutinizer> alsa state at shutdown time is arbitrary and mustn't be restored at boot
May 12 22:06:04 <mrmoku> ptitjes: I successfully built and booted an image with newer autotools
May 12 22:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> nytowl: dunno if this has been fixed a few weeks ago or is still there
May 12 22:06:27 <ptitjes> mrmoku: yeah!
May 12 22:06:40 <dos1|neo> mrmoku: prefered-om2008 or 09?
May 12 22:06:46 <mrmoku> dos1|neo: 2009
May 12 22:06:51 <mrmoku> both to be correct
May 12 22:06:52 <dos1|neo> fine
May 12 22:07:07 <dos1|neo> ;)
May 12 22:07:43 <ptitjes> mrmoku: this is excelent! did you have a try with gobject-instropection again then ?
May 12 22:07:50 <DocScrutinizer> nytowl: also DO NOT hwclock --systohc on shutdown. The sysclock usually is more inaccurate than RTC
May 12 22:08:02 <ptitjes> mrmoku: an new error ?? 8|
May 12 22:08:40 <mrmoku> ptitjes: not yet... finished the image build half an hour ago
May 12 22:08:52 <ptitjes> mrmoku: congrats
May 12 22:09:00 <ptitjes> :D
May 12 22:09:23 <mrmoku> ptitjes: will continue tomorrow though... need some sleep now
May 12 22:09:37 * dos1|neo to
May 12 22:09:42 <dos1|neo> too*
May 12 22:09:58 <ptitjes> goodnight mrmoku 
May 12 22:10:03 <mrmoku> night all
May 12 22:10:11 <ptitjes> goodnight dos1
May 12 22:10:19 <Blu3> 'nite
May 12 22:10:28 <dos1|neo> good night :)
May 12 22:17:10 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: nope, restoring audio state of last shutdown on boot time is a desktop thing not suitable for our audio hw based on heavy switching for different scenarios
May 12 22:19:11 <DocScrutinizer> if you had hs plugged on shutdown, you may see it unplugged on next boot.  If you shutdown emergency for a system bork during gsmhandset.state, you for sure don't want this to be restored on next boot
May 12 22:21:00 <DocScrutinizer> every app has to care for correct scenario by itself. there's no use to load any "default"
May 12 22:22:00 <DocScrutinizer> the only reasonable default is all audio shut down, and this is what audio hw does automatically
May 12 22:22:27 <Blu3> actually what i meant was restore it to a known state, so you didn't have any unknown positions
May 12 22:22:51 <Blu3> i didn't know that.  not all audio hw defaults to a sane state on powerup
May 12 22:23:09 <DocScrutinizer> ours does :-)
May 12 22:26:02 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: and even if it didn't, the alsa driver surely should take care of that on modprobe
May 12 22:28:46 <alphaone> mrmoku night
May 12 22:29:18 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: actually we've seen "broken audio" tickets because of hs was plugged in on shutdown, and the system didn't revert to stereoout.state even on repeated reboots - until you plugged and unplugged headset once more   :-DD
May 12 22:29:32 <Blu3> *nod*
May 12 22:29:56 * Blu3 is heading off to homo depot, gotta get some tools.  bbiaw
May 12 23:06:59 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r773aa0b005a8 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: 
May 12 23:06:59 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: odeviced: kernel26: check whether the battery is actually present before evaluating the capacity
May 12 23:06:59 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: This should fix the infamous shutdown when you use a GTA01 battery in GTA02.
May 12 23:43:40 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, nice
May 13 01:04:35 <Toaster`> ~seen raster
May 13 01:04:35 <bzzbot> raster <n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 13h 35m 15s ago, saying: 'its taller'.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 13 02:59:57 2009