**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 20 02:59:57 2009
May 20 04:38:54 <wpwrak> aha, dinner is done. how was the fish ? :)
May 20 04:40:48 <Arhuaco> Hello wpwrak :-) It was not fish actually.
May 20 04:43:10 <wpwrak> ah, are you getting used to the local cuisine then, with meat for each meal ? :)
May 20 04:44:49 <Arhuaco> wpwrak: Yes. They also got used to seeing me eating next to a laptop plugged to a weird device with a lot of cables :-)
May 20 04:46:23 <wpwrak> yeah, i guess they figured that it's probably not a bomb ;-)
May 20 04:47:33 <Arhuaco> wpwrak: Yes. Unless I use a can to put the whole thing again.
May 20 04:49:17 <wpwrak> just make sure it doesn't tick :)
May 20 04:49:48 <Arhuaco> wpwrak: You just gave me an idea.
May 20 04:50:10 <wpwrak> switch DL_GDM on, they the phone makes interesting ticking noises :)
May 20 04:57:24 <TAsn-moko> hey
May 20 05:01:13 <TAsn-moko> it seems that shr settings saves gprs information, cool !
May 20 05:02:54 <TAsn-moko> im bored...
May 20 05:02:56 <rhkfin> So does OM2009
May 20 05:03:04 <Arhuaco> wpwrak: Bye now. I'll be around later.
May 20 05:03:06 <rhkfin> TAsn-moko: try paroli
May 20 05:05:12 <TAsn-moko> rhkfin: no thank you, i like shr 
May 20 05:28:56 <rhkfin> TAsn: you can use Paroli on SHR as well, AFAIK..
May 20 05:39:08 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, ping
May 20 05:41:15 <tobii_> good morning
May 20 06:25:46 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #468 (Phonelog crashes every time I try to open it (shr/testing)) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/468>
May 20 06:29:47 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #469 (Alarm does not work after suspend/while in suspend) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/469> || Ticket #443 (Automatic screen lock when suspending) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/443#comment:4>
May 20 06:32:06 <khiraly1> hmm
May 20 06:34:34 <khiraly1> wpwrak: doh! all this python love everywhere, and you are commiting in perl;-P
May 20 06:39:09 <wpwrak> khiraly1: yeah, gotta keep the balance ;-)
May 20 06:40:38 <khiraly1> ;)
May 20 06:41:06 <PaulFertser> wpwrak: btw, i don't know about kitchen utensils but here guys who do cell phone repair use some common air-flow soldering stations to do BGA rework.
May 20 06:42:04 <wpwrak> PaulFertser: yup, that's the "standard" process for manual rework. I never quite figured out how to do this right, though.
May 20 06:42:42 <PaulFertser> wpwrak: as to the components, DIP is dead for sure but i wish there were more components accessible in SOIC 1.27 or at most SSOP 0.7 (?) SSOP is reasonable enough for manual soldering, at least i managed to use FTDI232R without a proper board and equipment.
May 20 06:44:17 <wpwrak> SSOP is 0.65
May 20 06:44:20 <PaulFertser> SSOP 0.65 actually, yes.
May 20 06:44:48 <wpwrak> yeah, SSOP is pretty easy. QFN with exposed lateral metal ends is also okay
May 20 06:45:02 <wpwrak> what sucks are things that don't have any metal on the side
May 20 06:45:41 <wpwrak> of course, it's not all that hard to build a reflow oven ...
May 20 06:48:41 <wpwrak> building a little pick&place machine would be neat. i have a cnc mill, so all i'd need is a head with a stepper motor for tool axis and vacuum ...
May 20 06:50:04 <PaulFertser> reflow oven, then one'll need a decent way to put SMT paste, etc... Too involving for a hobbyist.
May 20 06:50:07 <wpwrak> ah yes, and motorized component feeds :)
May 20 06:50:32 <khiraly1> head with a stepper motor for tool axis <-- why axis? ITs either horizontal or vertical. Feed that way (no need to rotate after you picked up)
May 20 06:50:57 <wpwrak> naw, SMT paste is easy to apply manually. i wouldn't do something like a GTA02, but also for smaller projects, reflow is handy
May 20 06:51:49 <khiraly1> I have seen a pretty awesome smt pick and place machine. It feeded itself pretty awesome (with the same syringe what it used to pick components)
May 20 06:51:58 <khiraly1> i'll try to find the video about it
May 20 06:51:59 <wpwrak> khiraly1: this already gives you four possible orientations, and it seems you may get some errors in the pickup
May 20 06:52:29 <wpwrak> isn't it the one i posted on the gta03 list ?
May 20 06:56:39 <khiraly1> wpwrak: http://www.freeweb.hu/smd21/videok/pepi01.divx
May 20 06:56:48 <khiraly1> wpwrak: nope, I have seen long time ago
May 20 06:57:08 <khiraly1> here is a little animgif: http://www.freeweb.hu/smd21/PEPIJO.gif
May 20 06:59:43 <wpwrak> khiraly1: nice !
May 20 06:59:59 <khiraly1> that way the machine feeds itself
May 20 07:00:20 <wpwrak> yeah, no motor needed for the feeder
May 20 07:01:55 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #469 (Alarm does not work after suspend/while in suspend) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/469#comment:1>
May 20 07:02:02 <khiraly1> and it looks like pretty aligned no need to manual align what you posted
May 20 07:02:07 <khiraly1> although Im not an expert
May 20 07:02:35 <khiraly1> (what you posted, in one video it aligned the component in a hole. And placed after)
May 20 07:03:05 <khiraly1> but in gta02 there are components which are hardly seen
May 20 07:03:13 <wpwrak> the one in the video i posted had some substantial pickup tolerances. but yes, perhaps that's not unavoidable
May 20 07:03:36 <wpwrak> the smallest ones are 0402. just don't let them fall to the floor ;-)
May 20 07:03:57 <khiraly1> i think it mission impossible to place it by hand
May 20 07:04:56 <wpwrak> 0402 ? no problem. IDBG uses 0402 and i made about ten such boards.
May 20 07:05:22 <wpwrak> it only gets tricky if you run a tracer under a 0402 component. then you have to be a bit careful with the positioning.
May 20 07:05:30 <wpwrak> s/tracer/trace/
May 20 07:06:30 <khiraly1> trace? under this resistance? doh! 
May 20 07:08:14 <wpwrak> http://www.almesberger.net/misc/idbg/idbg-Component.ps
May 20 07:08:54 <wpwrak> the one right from the oval pads at the bottom has a trace between the pads
May 20 07:09:42 <khiraly1> wpwrak: oh there is a manual smd placer "machine". The same guy built it, who did the video
May 20 07:09:58 <khiraly1> fully mechanic
May 20 07:10:09 <khiraly1> http://www.freeweb.hu/smd21/kezibeulteto/index.html
May 20 07:10:19 <wpwrak> 18th centry computing, here we come again ;-)
May 20 07:10:21 <khiraly1> ok, the text are hungarian, but the images talks for themself
May 20 07:11:13 <khiraly1> it reduce hand fatigue and shaking
May 20 07:11:50 <wpwrak> hmm, and reduces visibility
May 20 07:12:49 <khiraly1> hmm?
May 20 07:12:53 <khiraly1> reduces visibility?
May 20 07:13:06 <khiraly1> ahh, you are talking about text ...
May 20 07:13:28 <wpwrak> no, the construction. seems that it's hard to see where you're placing things
May 20 07:14:10 <khiraly1> nono. You place it by hand. its only a "hand holder"
May 20 07:14:59 <wpwrak> oooh, i see
May 20 07:16:15 <khiraly1> the video is just an incremental version of this idea. The same feeding idea.
May 20 07:16:59 <khiraly1> ok. stop dreaming. The real problem is component sourcing for hobbyist, the component placing problem is just the top of the cake
May 20 07:17:01 <khiraly1> ;)
May 20 07:17:08 <wpwrak> yeah. i wonder how he handles the transparent film on top.
May 20 07:17:40 <khiraly1> transparent film? you mean the plexi board?
May 20 07:17:57 <wpwrak> no, the one on the component tape
May 20 07:20:09 <wpwrak> i guess you could add a force-controlled motor that gently pulls it off without moving the tape
May 20 07:20:27 <wpwrak> or just add a laser cutter ;-)
May 20 07:20:46 <khiraly1> ok, he writes it in the text. The folie needs from times to times "with an easy move" to hitch back to be accessible the components.
May 20 07:21:38 <khiraly1> ^^mechanical design.  
May 20 07:21:41 <khiraly1> hmm, it seems you are talking about the complete automated design
May 20 07:22:02 <wpwrak> yeah, of course. that's where the real fun it :)
May 20 07:22:49 <khiraly1> ok. Im reading the text for you;)
May 20 07:23:00 <khiraly1> there is also a complete forum thread (still in hungarian) about it
May 20 07:24:03 <khiraly1> here are some close-up photos: http://www.freeweb.hu/smd21/mechanika/index.html
May 20 07:26:05 <wpwrak> neat !
May 20 07:26:11 <khiraly1> ok. you need to pull of the folie in the distance of plexi board. So the machine can feed that distance at a time
May 20 07:26:42 <wpwrak> okay, that's what i thought
May 20 07:26:43 <khiraly1> and as the machine feeds itself, there is no misalignment after
May 20 07:27:29 <wpwrak> only if your components don't need to be rotated
May 20 07:27:32 <khiraly1> but it can developed further. The machine goes to the tape, and instead of pulling it, it simply holds. And than you can pull off the folie at the other and (under the plexi board
May 20 07:27:49 <khiraly1> wpwrak: if the component needs to be rotated there is an other feed for them
May 20 07:28:11 <khiraly1> there is no 45 degree feeds, if you are asking for it
May 20 07:28:23 <khiraly1> the other feed you can see it at the end of the video
May 20 07:28:29 <wpwrak> polar components aready have 4 directions at 90 deg
May 20 07:28:51 <khiraly1> yepp you need feed them differently
May 20 07:30:07 <khiraly1> I mean you need change it or you can build four feed at the four side
May 20 07:30:08 <wpwrak> but it's a very nice design. wish i had the time to construct such a contraption :)
May 20 07:30:33 <khiraly1> the empy tape goes off under the table
May 20 07:30:46 <wpwrak> naw, i would just add a motor to rotate. then add a camera and the system can auto-adjust itself
May 20 07:30:57 <khiraly1> doh. Its overkill
May 20 07:31:07 <wpwrak> cameras are *cheap* ;-)
May 20 07:31:11 <khiraly1> you need to do some image recognition software
May 20 07:31:26 <wpwrak> very very basic one
May 20 07:31:36 <khiraly1> it is genious because its dead simple.
May 20 07:31:59 <khiraly1> for polar components just build one feed to the other side.
May 20 07:32:28 <wpwrak> it is, but it also has a lot of limitations. e.g., the polar components. or how about connectors that need to be placed at a
May 20 07:32:33 <khiraly1> the feed guide is cnc'd into the aluminium. There is no much play in this design
May 20 07:32:36 <wpwrak> specific angle ?
May 20 07:32:47 <khiraly1> no specific angle
May 20 07:33:22 <khiraly1> I think this machine covers the 95% of the needs. For the remaining 5% there is the mechanical design
May 20 07:33:28 <khiraly1> ;)
May 20 07:34:14 <wpwrak> i like the dual-tool head
May 20 07:34:57 <khiraly1> in this design? its not really dual tool. One head is only the pull the tape. The other is for picking the components up
May 20 07:35:25 <wpwrak> yup. two simple tools :)
May 20 07:35:43 <khiraly1> oh, and for the pneumatics he use fridge compressor
May 20 07:36:06 <wpwrak> whee ! i was wondering where he got these from
May 20 07:36:57 <khiraly1> what I like about this concept, is there is no real pre-programming the machine. What I have seen in the industry. all of them needs manual tuning before run. One full day, or even weeks!
May 20 07:37:28 <wpwrak> nawm pick&place should be fairly straightforward
May 20 07:38:08 <wpwrak> and also with this machine you need to specify the tape order, step width, location, you "program" the orientation by how you place the feeds, etc.
May 20 07:38:53 <wpwrak> the only thing it seems to omit is the component height, but "one size fits" all may be a problem too, e.g., when you slam a tall component onto the board
May 20 07:45:28 <khiraly1> ok. He writes, that 1206 is no problem, 0805 either. But under these size there should be some optics/camera positioning
May 20 07:45:43 <wpwrak> aha !
May 20 07:46:03 <khiraly1> and for the small mialignment, in the oven the surface tencion just pull the components in axis direction
May 20 07:46:11 <khiraly1> sorry, if my english isnt enough clear
May 20 07:46:18 <khiraly1> tension
May 20 07:46:26 <wpwrak> yup, the magic of reflow :)
May 20 07:47:29 <khiraly1> the tape positioning is "death precise" the head pulls the tape with almost no play
May 20 07:47:50 <khiraly1> the tape guid is cnc'd into aluminium. So no play there either
May 20 07:48:17 <wpwrak> ok
May 20 07:48:23 <khiraly1> however the components inside the tape, has some misalignment. There is no correction for this. But the "magic of reflow" solves it
May 20 07:48:55 <khiraly1> therefore there is a 0805 size limits
May 20 07:49:16 <khiraly1> Im reading the forum thread, maybe there are some information about component heights too
May 20 07:49:53 <khiraly1> the play at size 1206 can be 0.1-0.2mm and 5-10 degree too. In the reflow, it will be no problem
May 20 08:19:13 <spaetz> is anyone a dillo expoert? We have dillo2 and dillo in our SHR feed. And apparently dillo is broken.
May 20 08:19:15 <khiraly1> wpwrak: ok. I read the whole thread. There is no mentioning of different height. And there are way more problems with them as I thought. I cant see how can it pick up size 0402.
May 20 08:19:35 <spaetz> Is there any advantage over dillo2? Otherwise, I'll just kick it out of the feed.
May 20 08:19:36 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #431 (Problem with Dillo) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/431#comment:3>
May 20 08:20:37 <khiraly1> wpwrak: and for components like leds, there is no easy way to reflow them. So I do not think it is possible to built a gta02 panel in a hobbyist environment
May 20 08:21:07 <Ainulindale> Hey there
May 20 08:21:11 <wpwrak> khiraly1: hmm, i've reflowed 0603 LEDs. why should this be impossible ?
May 20 08:22:25 <khiraly1> because over 80C you shorten the life of it. So If it takes to much time in a homebuilt reflow oven, it can be damaged
May 20 08:23:03 <khiraly1> btw, for image recognisition, one of the guys plaing with this:
May 20 08:23:06 <khiraly1> http://www.cnctar.hunbay.com/elektron/smd_gep_kepek_videok/recognized_smd_part.jpg
May 20 08:24:09 <khiraly1> about the rotating head: it adds wight, and the precise mechanics costs money. Way too much
May 20 08:24:10 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #412 (Vagalume crashes on Help/About) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/412#comment:3>
May 20 08:24:56 <Zorkman> spaetz: information on dillo2 on www.dillo.org: n dillo2, you will find: tabbed browsing, antialiasing, different character sets, accepting compressed pages, control over image loading, smaller footprint, near 50% smaller memory usage, fewer dependencies, better table rendering, bugfixes, improved GUI, among others!
May 20 08:25:09 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, hey... you were doing something on the buildhost?
May 20 08:25:15 <Ainulindale> Nah, why?
May 20 08:25:22 <Ainulindale> (just woke up)
May 20 08:25:27 <mrmoku> last night?
May 20 08:25:29 <Ainulindale> (trying to fix things again with the french administration)
May 20 08:25:31 <Ainulindale> I don't think so
May 20 08:25:33 <Ainulindale> Why?
May 20 08:25:37 <Zorkman> playing with buildhost in your sleep... that's even sicker than my dreams :p
May 20 08:25:45 <mrmoku> moment...
May 20 08:25:52 <spaetz> Zorkman: sounds like we don't want to keep dillo1 around then
May 20 08:26:02 <spaetz> thanks
May 20 08:26:04 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: ah and why don't we migrate to distro SHR fully by the way?
May 20 08:26:09 <Ainulindale> Are ou afraid about something?
May 20 08:26:31 <khiraly1> Zorkman: I would like to see easy zooming. Just like on iphone
May 20 08:26:40 <Zorkman> don't see why we should... maybe there's some proble i'm not aware of but don't think so.. dillo2 has been released in december 2008
May 20 08:26:41 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, nah... just blind (not only stupid ;)
May 20 08:26:46 <mrmoku> thought you moved away tmp...
May 20 08:26:51 <Ainulindale> Nah
May 20 08:26:53 <Zorkman> khiraly1: we all would like that :)
May 20 08:26:55 <Ainulindale> I didn't touch tmp
May 20 08:27:07 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, it is shr.conf now... but still does not build
May 20 08:27:08 <Zorkman> khiraly1: i thought it would be ease with some controlls like in duke3d@FR
May 20 08:27:16 <tmzt> how has rendering improved?
May 20 08:27:16 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: ah? Tell me more
May 20 08:27:16 <mrmoku> it DOES NOT help for the vala-native problem
May 20 08:27:22 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: weird here it worked
May 20 08:27:25 <Ainulindale> Can I look?
May 20 08:27:31 <wpwrak> khiraly1: some of the diy reflow ovens have convection and a very tight temperature control. so they shouldn't cause the leds undue distress
May 20 08:27:31 <mrmoku> please :)
May 20 08:27:38 <Zorkman> khiraly1: there you can controll it with accelerometers, or with your finger, the finger way seems to be perfect to me
May 20 08:28:01 <spaetz> Ainulindale, mrmoku: Just FYI. Going to remove dillo1 from the feed. There are bugs against it and we have dillo2 in the feed
May 20 08:28:02 <Zorkman> khiraly1: press and hold and tilt your finger to move would be become: press and hold and tilt finger to zoom 
May 20 08:28:03 <wpwrak> khiraly1: (head) you need just a small stepper motor. shouldn't be all that bad.
May 20 08:28:32 <Ainulindale> spaetz: That's good to me
May 20 08:28:37 <Ainulindale> spaetz: Do a mail on the ML :-)
May 20 08:28:47 <Ainulindale> (for user follow up)
May 20 08:29:06 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, somehow ltmain.sh wants to relink valac somethimes... and sometimes it calls it with a properly set path to the libs (without relinking)
May 20 08:29:09 <Ainulindale> spaetz: talking about that kind of thing we should keep a written track of changes like that in a Non-Ml format
May 20 08:29:18 <Ainulindale> then post a summary once a week
May 20 08:29:27 <Ainulindale> What do you think?
May 20 08:29:38 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: "sometimes"? :-)
May 20 08:29:38 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, another thing I would like to have is a repo for documents
May 20 08:29:47 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: well so would I
May 20 08:29:48 <mrmoku> stuff like coding style... guidelines... and such
May 20 08:29:58 <Ainulindale> About the questions I raised
May 20 08:30:08 <CIA-75> SHR: 03Sebastian 07shr-overlay * r70740ae2b8ae 10/openembedded/recipes/tasks/task-shr-feed.bb: feed: remove dillo(1). closes #431
May 20 08:30:09 <Ainulindale> I'd rather we open a thread for each of them and talk about them one by one
May 20 08:30:14 <Ainulindale> Else it's going to be confused
May 20 08:30:31 <mrmoku> yep... one topic per thread is easier to resume after discussion on ML...
May 20 08:30:31 <Ainulindale> (I for sure find it confused at the present time)
May 20 08:30:33 <spaetz> mrmoku: repo could be wiki, or real file repo?
May 20 08:30:44 <mrmoku> spaetz, something with history... --> repo :)
May 20 08:30:57 <spaetz> wiki has history, but ok :)
May 20 08:30:59 <mrmoku> (know wiki has history too... but can't use gitk on it :P)
May 20 08:31:09 <Ainulindale> well
May 20 08:31:09 <spaetz> fine for me
May 20 08:31:19 <Ainulindale> I'd also like to name responsible for threads, or "ideas"
May 20 08:31:23 <Ainulindale> someone who will sum it up in the end
May 20 08:31:33 <Ainulindale> TAsn is the designated volunteer for the coding style
May 20 08:31:49 <Ainulindale> It is a boring job but it is necessary
May 20 08:31:50 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #431 (Problem with Dillo) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/431#comment:4>
May 20 08:32:31 <spaetz> also, there are a few vagalume crasher bugs. We have 0.7, current is 0.7.1
May 20 08:32:41 <spaetz> Can someone try to update the recipe?
May 20 08:32:50 <Ainulindale> Well it's easy spaetz 
May 20 08:32:58 <Ainulindale> Drop a patch renaming it in OE
May 20 08:33:08 <Ainulindale> If it works we'll ask nytowl to commit it
May 20 08:33:18 <spaetz> I can't build it, my build env is still broken
May 20 08:33:40 <spaetz> gtk+ won't build. I get GNU_HASH or whatever errors on everything, really fucked up
May 20 08:33:54 <Ainulindale> here it built
May 20 08:34:01 <Ainulindale> (gtk)
May 20 08:34:09 <spaetz> using DSITR=shr?
May 20 08:34:11 <Ainulindale> yes
May 20 08:34:12 <spaetz> DISTRO
May 20 08:34:25 <spaetz> ok, weird. Going to delete tmp and retry from scratch
May 20 08:34:29 <Ainulindale> no
May 20 08:34:35 <Ainulindale> clean it, retry
May 20 08:34:39 <Ainulindale> then paste the log if it fails
May 20 08:34:42 <spaetz> I did
May 20 08:34:47 <Ainulindale> not to me :-)
May 20 08:34:50 <spaetz> cleaning didn't help
May 20 08:34:59 <Ainulindale> gimme the log lazy pig !
May 20 08:35:23 * mrmoku is tying vagalume 0.7.1 meanwhile ;)
May 20 08:35:27 <spaetz> will do when I have it.
May 20 08:35:30 * spaetz oinks
May 20 08:35:43 <Ainulindale> :-)
May 20 08:35:50 <Ainulindale> spaetz: but more seriously
May 20 08:36:05 <Ainulindale> deleting tmp is only pertinent when you really borked your staging dir or deployed packages
May 20 08:36:12 <Ainulindale> Or so I think
May 20 08:36:17 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: care to give your opinion?
May 20 08:36:31 <spaetz> Ainulindale: but I think it is really borked, as I get weird errors for basically all packages
May 20 08:36:44 <Ainulindale> spaetz: then let me see I'll help you :-)
May 20 08:36:50 <Ainulindale> We're here for that spaetz 
May 20 08:36:55 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, well... mwester would strongly disagree on that
May 20 08:37:07 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: mwester disagrees on everything :-p
May 20 08:37:10 <Ainulindale> Unfortunately he's often right
May 20 08:37:14 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: why would he, anyway?
May 20 08:37:26 <spaetz> hehe advocates more builds from scratch, I think
May 20 08:37:32 <spaetz> s/hehe/he/
May 20 08:37:35 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, because quite often building only works because you have something left in tmp
May 20 08:37:42 <mrmoku> and rebuilding from scratch won't work
May 20 08:37:53 <mrmoku> so just for that a rebuild from scratch is a nice thing to do
May 20 08:37:53 <Ainulindale> Ah yes to test dependencies & such I agree too
May 20 08:38:01 <Ainulindale> Once in a while you have to rebuild from scratch
May 20 08:38:04 <mrmoku> to ensure new builders won't run int problems...
May 20 08:38:06 <Ainulindale> But here spaetz just began to rebuild from scratch
May 20 08:38:10 <Ainulindale> As I did
May 20 08:38:12 <Ainulindale> And it worked here
May 20 08:38:23 <Ainulindale> So no reason to spend 2 days rebuilding again IMHO :-)
May 20 08:38:29 <mrmoku> sure thing :)
May 20 08:38:39 <spaetz> ERROR: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'EnumValue' objects while parsing /home/spaetz/src/shrbuildenv/shr-unstable/openembedded/recipes/openmoko-projects/paroli-elementary_git.bb
May 20 08:38:45 <spaetz> broken recipe?
May 20 08:38:50 <mrmoku> haha.. .missing SRCREV
May 20 08:39:52 * spaetz sighs
May 20 08:40:34 <spaetz> bitbake fails because of it...
May 20 08:42:26 <rtp> spaetz: what kind of GNU_HASH errors are you getting ? maybe it's some script expecting binaries compiled with -Wl,--hash-style=gnu. I'm not sure that it's the default on ARM
May 20 08:44:11 <spaetz> rtp: I deleted tmp (was switching from DISTRO=openmoko to DISTRO=shr anyway), I'll report back if I'm still getting it.
May 20 08:44:34 <rtp> spaetz: ok
May 20 08:45:40 <Ainulindale> mrmoku, spaetz: you have a bot to do :-)
May 20 08:45:57 <mirko-paroli> DocScrutinizer: you have an N800 right?
May 20 08:48:50 <spaetz> mrmoku: how do we fix the paroli-elementary thing best. Define AUTOREV in our autorev.inc?
May 20 08:49:02 <Ainulindale> s/bot/vote/
May 20 08:49:08 <Ainulindale> (How could I write otherwise?)
May 20 08:49:17 <spaetz> hehe.
May 20 08:49:23 <spaetz> I was wondering what you meant :)
May 20 08:51:31 <spaetz> mrmoku: 8h ago nytowl changed the paroli recpe to use SRCPV rather SRCREV
May 20 08:51:47 <spaetz> so this is what I have to provide in autorev.inc, right?
May 20 08:51:53 <mrmoku> yep
May 20 08:55:34 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, can't we get rid of angstrom-distribution as download location?
May 20 08:56:53 <CIA-75> SHR: 03Sebastian 07shr-overlay * re76183df3b69 10/openembedded/conf/distro/include/shr-autorev-unstable.inc: paroli-elementary: fix SRCPV to make bitbake happy. nytowl, you might want to do this too.
May 20 08:57:22 <spaetz> yes please!!!!
May 20 08:57:41 <spaetz> angstrom times out all the time rather then telling that it doesn't have stuff
May 20 08:57:48 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, and instead use shr-project.org?
May 20 08:58:11 * mrmoku wonders if it would be his job looking into that while doing shr.conf :P
May 20 08:58:13 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: well this would imply to download sources locally
May 20 08:58:25 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, what do you mean?
May 20 08:58:33 <spaetz> Ainulindale: many of the sources aren on angstrom anyway
May 20 08:58:34 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: well the framework tgz and such
May 20 08:58:43 <mrmoku> locally to where?
May 20 08:58:47 <Ainulindale> the buildhost
May 20 08:58:58 <Ainulindale> Or do you want to just disable angstrom?
May 20 08:59:08 <spaetz> that's how I understood it
May 20 08:59:17 <spaetz> just angstrom
May 20 08:59:34 <mrmoku> hmm... then just disable that never working, always timeouting armstrong thingie :P
May 20 08:59:48 <Ainulindale> armstrong?
May 20 08:59:54 <Ainulindale> You're into biking or space race? :-)
May 20 09:00:06 <spaetz> FYI: I fixed the SRCPV of paroli-elementary to the latest rev. WE currently don't use it, and AUTOREV causes each bitbake operation to check git online
May 20 09:01:50 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, nah... don't care :P
May 20 09:03:21 <Ainulindale> mrmoku, spaetz, go and vote :-)
May 20 09:06:07 <ptitjes> good morning
May 20 09:06:50 <ptitjes> mrmoku, Ainulindale, spaetz, ...: http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=shr-overlay.git;a=commit;h=034cbe19e9dcd0d4a8b975467b323d8d474e0f68
May 20 09:08:37 <ptitjes> sorry but what are vim and emacs ?
May 20 09:08:42 <ptitjes> ;D
May 20 09:12:45 <ptitjes> TAsn: heh could we have a recapitulation of the proposed things before voting
May 20 09:13:02 <ptitjes> TAsn: I think a complete point should be made before voting
May 20 09:18:36 <spaetz> I voted
May 20 09:18:49 <Ainulindale> 4 "yes" for now
May 20 09:18:58 <ptitjes> See my mail.
May 20 09:19:03 <tmzt> this is the experimental community process?
May 20 09:19:04 <Ainulindale> with Tasn, obviously, it'll be 5
May 20 09:19:14 <Ainulindale> tmzt: core team actually but yes
May 20 09:19:40 <Ainulindale> spaetz: interesting mail you did there
May 20 09:19:49 <Ainulindale> spaetz: (the cross post)
May 20 09:19:52 <Ainulindale> I like it :-)
May 20 09:19:53 <spaetz> in what way?
May 20 09:19:53 <Ainulindale> Good thinking
May 20 09:19:59 <spaetz> ahh, ok
May 20 09:20:14 <Ainulindale> spaetz: for the new feature by the way
May 20 09:20:16 <spaetz> As we don't have an announcement list *hint hint* :) I needed to crosspost
May 20 09:20:20 <Ainulindale> You were right to include it as a default without asking
May 20 09:20:25 <Ainulindale> As it's a new feature
May 20 09:20:36 <spaetz> Actually, it was dos who included it :) so it's his fault
May 20 09:20:38 <Ainulindale> So let the users test it for a while, see comments, and adjust
May 20 09:20:42 <Ainulindale> Then he was right :-)
May 20 09:20:58 <spaetz> I jsut prodded him into doing it :)
May 20 09:21:05 <Ainulindale> But one should always talk about that stuff
May 20 09:21:11 <Ainulindale> It's interesting for everybody
May 20 09:21:15 <albacore> join #elementary
May 20 09:21:16 <Ainulindale> Proof is: I'm glad it's there :-)
May 20 09:21:31 <Ainulindale> albacore: No! I don't want to! I'm scared, raster is mean!
May 20 09:21:31 <spaetz> right, I just wanted to prevent new trac tickets on the "unexpected" behavior :)
May 20 09:21:42 <Ainulindale> spaetz: good!
May 20 09:21:51 <spaetz> join #elementary-school
May 20 09:21:55 <Ainulindale> That's exactly what I'd like everyone to do :-)
May 20 09:22:42 <albacore> sorry, I go to school
May 20 09:22:51 <tmzt> just to clearify here,  the 8 seconds is a hardware thing?
May 20 09:23:00 <Ainulindale> tmzt: IIRC yes
May 20 09:24:24 <ptitjes> TAsn: were is the Wiki page the recapitulates the code convention points ?
May 20 09:24:49 <ptitjes> or do we vote for the fact of having code conventions ?
May 20 09:24:50 <spaetz> Ainulindale: BTW have fun cherrypicking stuff from -unstable. I'm afraid this might be a horrible mess. But then the wonders of git might just make it possible.
May 20 09:25:06 <spaetz> As I am not that experienced with git, it could work
May 20 09:25:10 <Ainulindale> spaetz: it wouldn't be a mess
May 20 09:25:22 <Ainulindale> Problem is that we can't properly migrate from unstable as a whole
May 20 09:25:29 <Ainulindale> there will always be one issue with a specific software
May 20 09:25:40 <Ainulindale> That's why I think it should be avoided
May 20 09:25:59 <Ainulindale> If only a single piece of software is not testing material then it means the whole distro isn't, in my opinion
May 20 09:26:10 <Ainulindale> (SHould have told that before I hit "send")
May 20 09:26:13 <spaetz> at least we know what works and what not. By cherry picking we will introduce new bugs as apps need to interoperate
May 20 09:26:28 <Ainulindale> spaetz: well that's our job to prevent things like that
May 20 09:26:39 <Ainulindale> Sorry to say but that's how things go in most of the distros :-)
May 20 09:26:50 <Ainulindale> (if not all)
May 20 09:26:55 <spaetz> well, I already have a fulltime job and a family, thanks :)
May 20 09:27:12 <spaetz> but let's try
May 20 09:27:31 <Ainulindale> spaetz: yeah so have I (apart for the family part :-p)
May 20 09:27:48 <Ainulindale> spaetz: But I told everyone that core team membership would make us do some things we don't like
May 20 09:27:56 <Ainulindale> But we need someone to do that anyway
May 20 09:28:01 <Ainulindale> Don't worry though that doesn't mean you'll have to do it
May 20 09:28:07 <Ainulindale> We'll talk about task assignment
May 20 09:28:30 <Ainulindale> If you feel more comfortable with PR/Bug wrangling/etc, it might do it too
May 20 09:33:40 <mrmoku> spaetz, hmm... short power button is not suspend, no? its syscon menu...
May 20 09:33:53 <spaetz> is that back? I thought it's still broken
May 20 09:33:56 <Ainulindale> Deubeuliou: hey there o/
May 20 09:34:00 <Ainulindale> I see you're alive
May 20 09:34:18 <spaetz> mrmoku: it used to be directly suspend a few days ago :). 
May 20 09:34:19 <mrmoku> spaetz, no, is back :) have to remove .e though to get it
May 20 09:34:51 <spaetz> ahh, I see. Right, removing .e is a necessity for getting the new behavior anyway, right? So I might need to fire a followup mail :(
May 20 09:35:04 <Ainulindale> Bad boy :-)
May 20 09:40:29 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, (vala-native) shr.conf fixed it for you?
May 20 09:40:40 <Ainulindale> seems it did yes
May 20 09:41:50 <mrmoku> I'm out of ideas... and it's getting critical :(
May 20 09:42:18 <Deubeuliou> Ainulindale: yep
May 20 09:42:45 <Deubeuliou> how are tou ?
May 20 09:43:19 <ptitjes> I'm sad that we have to vote although the points have not been summed up... Thus what we vote for, we don't know!
May 20 09:44:42 <ptitjes> mrmoku: it seems to me it solved for everyone with the libtool-native_2.2.4-r20 trick
May 20 09:44:51 <PaulFertser> ptitjes: except for mrmoku :-/
May 20 09:44:59 <ptitjes> mrmoku: yeah I noticed that
May 20 09:45:08 <PaulFertser> ptitjes: because for him the new libtool still generates relink_command crap.
May 20 09:45:12 <ptitjes> mrmoku: but do you still juggle between two tmp/ dir ?
May 20 09:45:41 <ptitjes> PaulFertser: thus it is not the new version
May 20 09:46:35 <PaulFertser> ptitjes: no, it is.
May 20 09:46:46 <PaulFertser> ptitjes: comment on top of his file says it.
May 20 09:46:54 <ptitjes> arrrgg
May 20 09:49:18 <mrmoku> ptitjes, PaulFertser, nah... you're wrong... von_fritz has the same problem
May 20 09:49:28 <mrmoku> ptitjes, stopped juggling
May 20 09:49:38 <ptitjes> oki
May 20 09:50:18 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, I studied ltmain.sh for over an hour... hard core shell scripting :P
May 20 09:50:25 <ptitjes> mrmoku: on the good tmp/ ??? ;)
May 20 09:51:05 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: I didn't dare to do it yesterday evening, was too sleepy already.
May 20 09:51:34 <ptitjes> mrmoku: do you have oe commit rights ?
May 20 09:52:05 <ptitjes> hum nytowl is not here...
May 20 09:52:31 <von_fritz> mrmoku yep still not building :( you are not alone :)
May 20 09:56:19 * mrmoku feels better now... and is off for lunch :P
May 20 09:56:37 <mrmoku> ptitjes, no, no OE commit rights
May 20 09:58:57 <Ainulindale> Deubeuliou: were you serious about tabs? :-)
May 20 09:59:21 <spaetz> lunch? great idea...
May 20 09:59:36 <Ainulindale> As your comment was a bit ironic I thought it was just a joke Deubeuliou 
May 20 10:03:05 <Ainulindale> One last vote to qorum, TAsn will be happy as his vote might be it :-)
May 20 10:04:30 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: ping
May 20 10:04:37 <Ainulindale> wake up you lazy german sausage :-)
May 20 10:04:57 <viq> :D
May 20 10:05:39 <Ainulindale> spaetz: ERROR: QA Issue: No GNU_HASH in the elf binary: '/home/ainu/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/procps-3.2.7-r7.1/install/procps/usr/bin/uptime.procps'
May 20 10:05:44 <Ainulindale> I had that.
May 20 10:05:52 <Ainulindale> Might be misconfigured distro :-)
May 20 10:05:53 <BillK> my shr-unstable got past vala-native, but the next stumble is "ERROR: '/home/moko/SHR/shr-unstable/openembedded/recipes/efl1/etk_svn.bb' failed"
May 20 10:05:56 <Ainulindale> (but it didn't stop the package)
May 20 10:05:58 <BillK> http://pastebin.com/d1a5cc203
May 20 10:06:12 <BillK> I think autoreconf is the wrong version
May 20 10:06:13 <Ainulindale> BillK: hmmm that's weird
May 20 10:06:28 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I answered, but (bad press) only to TAsn, he did answer to me and the list then
May 20 10:06:39 <BillK> I have not deleted tmp so far - is that a good idea, or a waste of time?
May 20 10:07:15 <Ainulindale> BillK: probably a waste of time if you started from scratch recently
May 20 10:07:59 <spaetz> Ainulindale: yep stuff like that in basically any binary
May 20 10:08:12 <Ainulindale> spaetz: I guess this is something missing then :-)
May 20 10:08:18 <Ainulindale> spaetz: but no harm done that I know about
May 20 10:08:25 <spaetz> but it seems to be working now that I deleted tmp, so I am happy for now
May 20 10:08:37 <Ainulindale> Sheesh, you just won't listen :-)
May 20 10:08:59 <spaetz> hehe, now you just sound like my wife
May 20 10:09:09 <Ainulindale> A wise woman I'm sure :-)
May 20 10:09:25 <Ainulindale> spaetz: but more seriously just ask instead of trying to do from scratch when you have this kind of issue
May 20 10:09:28 <PaulFertser> BillK: i'd try bitbake automake-native
May 20 10:09:31 <Ainulindale> I'm sure it'd help us to solve other issues
May 20 10:09:40 <Ainulindale> And if we can't, then delete it for sure
May 20 10:09:46 <spaetz> Ainulindale: usually I do, but I needed to start from scratch with DISTRO=shr anyway
May 20 10:09:49 <Ainulindale> But I'd rather know how to solve it than forget about it :-)
May 20 10:09:57 <Ainulindale> Ah you didn't start from scratch with it?
May 20 10:09:58 <PaulFertser> spaetz: i didn't
May 20 10:11:32 <BillK> PaulFertser: tkx
May 20 10:11:52 * spaetz catches up one the -om-community list and is appaled by trolls. No wonder I'm not subscribed there
May 20 10:12:01 <spaetz> appalled, actually
May 20 10:12:01 <Ainulindale> trolls? about what?
May 20 10:12:15 <spaetz> Ain't it funny..   Dale Maggee 
May 20 10:12:26 <PaulFertser> BillK: that's just a guess, not a solution.
May 20 10:12:29 <spaetz> about OM, and the best uses of the FR (boat anchor, etc)
May 20 10:12:54 <Ainulindale> well there's a lot of people who keep whining about anything out there :-)
May 20 10:13:28 <spaetz> so am I, but either they should just shut the fuck up, help to improve the situation or demand their money from OM back
May 20 10:13:54 <spaetz> not start mails with "Sieg Heil" which is usually about the time when I stop reading
May 20 10:13:55 <Ainulindale> well people are not used to help or come up with arguments when they settled their opinion
May 20 10:13:58 <Ainulindale> Unfortunately
May 20 10:13:59 <BillK> PaulFertser: realise that, but its worth a try before I wipe tmp and wait two days to see if that worked :)
May 20 10:14:07 <Ainulindale> spaetz: yeah, godwin's law
May 20 10:14:19 <spaetz> exactly
May 20 10:14:33 <BillK> Also, I get the reason for a bootstrap package, but whats
May 20 10:14:34 <Ainulindale> spaetz: usually that drives me mad :-)
May 20 10:14:49 <BillK> the reasoning behind a "native" package
May 20 10:15:00 <BillK> i.e., vala-native and vala
May 20 10:15:06 <Ainulindale> BillK: vala is the arm compiler
May 20 10:15:12 <Ainulindale> BillK: vala-native is the host compiler for arm
May 20 10:15:16 <Ainulindale> (IIRC)
May 20 10:15:31 <mickeyl> correct
May 20 10:15:34 <Ainulindale> So you can compile vala for arm on your host with vala-native
May 20 10:15:37 <BillK> ahh, makes sense, tkx
May 20 10:15:38 <ptitjes> yep
May 20 10:15:40 <Ainulindale> And compile vala on your device with vala
May 20 10:15:48 <Ainulindale> hey mickeyl o/
May 20 10:16:05 <mickeyl> mornin
May 20 10:16:30 <ptitjes> Ainulindale, BillK: but the vala recipe is only to have libvala
May 20 10:17:00 <ptitjes> hello mickey
May 20 10:17:11 <mickeyl> morning ptitjes 
May 20 10:17:38 <ptitjes> mickeyl: could we ask for more OE commit access and to who ?
May 20 10:18:42 <ptitjes> I may already have asked that but forgot the answer...
May 20 10:19:29 <mickeyl> you can always ask. chances are you need to show some patches or previous work to get ACKs from the members though
May 20 10:19:45 <BillK> ptitjes: tkx, its the phillosphy behind why some packages had bootstrap, native and package I was
May 20 10:19:49 <BillK> interested in.
May 20 10:20:20 <ptitjes> BillK: this is just because official releases come with C sources, and git does not :)
May 20 10:20:44 <ptitjes> BillK: so we setup a bootstrap recipe that compile just C from last release
May 20 10:20:57 <mickeyl> in general, we only add native packages when a) we need to have certain versions or we b) patch native software to be more cross-compiling friendly.
May 20 10:21:09 <ptitjes> BillK: and the non-bootstrap native one use the produced compiler to build from git
May 20 10:21:16 <BillK> ptitjes: the FR is the first time I have used cross-compilation so its new to me
May 20 10:21:28 <ptitjes> BillK: np
May 20 10:22:02 <ptitjes> BillK: my only view of cross-compilation was for PIC before :)
May 20 10:22:15 <ptitjes> BillK: Microchip PIC
May 20 10:24:13 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: could you apply a patch on libfso-glib_git.bb please, if I send it to you by mail ?
May 20 10:24:38 <BillK> ptitjes: know of it but never used it - c/c++ (very out of practise) and perl etc for Intel/AMD I am
May 20 10:25:07 <BillK> familiar with.  Did M6800 assembler for awhile, but hated it :)
May 20 10:25:21 <ptitjes> BillK: héhé
May 20 10:25:31 <ptitjes> BillK: MC68000 you mean right ?
May 20 10:26:03 <ptitjes> BillK: I'm sure you are not the only one to hate that assembler...
May 20 10:26:17 <BillK> M6800/6802 - showing my age - even used paper punch tape at one stage :)
May 20 10:26:34 <ptitjes> wow
May 20 10:26:37 <ptitjes> :)
May 20 10:26:59 <mickeyl> heh
May 20 10:27:02 <mickeyl> 6802 ASM was nice
May 20 10:27:29 <BillK> Putting on "old gae" voice and waving cane: You youngsters dont know how good you have it these days"
May 20 10:27:39 * mickeyl joins the old farts club
May 20 10:28:21 <BillK> was more the built in clock circuitry simplyfied things, but the assember was reasonably straight forward
May 20 10:28:43 <ptitjes> mickeyl: we have a (not doing much thing just deploy the vapi) bbclass for Vala
May 20 10:28:50 <ptitjes> mickeyl: on the shr overlay
May 20 10:29:08 <ptitjes> mickeyl: would you see it as a good thing if it was extended and moved to oe ?
May 20 10:29:36 <mickeyl> ptitjes: check my tree :)
May 20 10:29:41 <ptitjes> mickeyl: or do you find it more clear that the recipes explicitely states:
May 20 10:29:45 <mickeyl> did something like that some weeks ago
May 20 10:29:57 <ptitjes> FILES_${PN}-dev += "${datadir}/vala/vapi/*.vapi"
May 20 10:29:57 <ptitjes> FILES_${PN}-dev += "${datadir}/gir-1.0/*.gir"
May 20 10:30:38 <mickeyl> the first version even predates my OE boycott, so should already be in main
May 20 10:30:43 <mickeyl> i enhanced it lately w/ http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=openembedded.git;a=commit;h=628008d5a133eb52d8c7a946c26b54a21d444e6e
May 20 10:30:55 <mickeyl> all that stuff will land in OE soon, either in a branch or in .dev
May 20 10:31:32 <ptitjes> mickeyl: I was aware of this boycott yesterday only, where could I find a pointer to read about the rational please ?
May 20 10:32:33 <mickeyl> oh well
May 20 10:32:44 <mickeyl> for that you would need to read the last couple of years from oe mailing list
May 20 10:32:48 <mickeyl> plus having access to oe-private
May 20 10:33:08 <ptitjes> humm
May 20 10:33:29 <mickeyl> besides, it looks like i managed to stir some things up
May 20 10:33:45 <mickeyl> so I'm looking forwards to coming back to OE soon
May 20 10:34:40 <ptitjes> good
May 20 10:34:43 <spaetz> \o/ (again)
May 20 10:35:14 <ptitjes> mickeyl: I miss someone to commit a patch for libfso-glib recipe :(
May 20 10:36:31 <ptitjes> mickeyl: (vala bbclass) how could I extend you class to add a conditional:
May 20 10:36:41 <ptitjes> mickeyl: if a .gir has produced then deploy it
May 20 10:36:46 <ptitjes> +been
May 20 10:37:07 <mickeyl> well, you can just unconditionally specify it in the FILES_
May 20 10:37:15 <mickeyl> if something is there, it's going to be packaged
May 20 10:37:25 <ptitjes> mickeyl: or would you think that should be another class
May 20 10:37:34 <ptitjes> like gir.bbclass
May 20 10:37:37 <mickeyl> no, that should be in vala
May 20 10:37:40 <mickeyl> for now
May 20 10:37:52 <mickeyl> i have added the gir to the libfso-glib
May 20 10:37:54 <ptitjes> mickeyl: what about future gnome libs that have gir files ?
May 20 10:38:03 <mickeyl> we cross that bridge once we're there :)
May 20 10:38:11 <ptitjes> oki
May 20 10:38:24 <ptitjes> mickeyl: where did you add the gir ?
May 20 10:38:33 <ptitjes> in your tree
May 20 10:38:37 <mickeyl> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=openembedded.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ccd0508e2108a93b6c6ce385c7d20b887e243ae
May 20 10:38:39 <ptitjes> harrraaggh I'm lost
May 20 10:38:50 <ptitjes> there are too many repos
May 20 10:38:52 <mrmoku> ptitjes, you're buildhost is i686 or x86_64?
May 20 10:38:54 <mickeyl> indeed
May 20 10:39:02 <ptitjes> x86_64
May 20 10:39:07 <mrmoku> OK
May 20 10:39:20 <ptitjes> mrmoku: succeeded ?
May 20 10:39:26 <mrmoku> ptitjes, kidding?
May 20 10:39:36 <ptitjes> hummm no
May 20 10:39:46 <ptitjes> mrmoku: so what meant the "OK" ?
May 20 10:39:48 <ptitjes> :(
May 20 10:40:22 <mrmoku> nah... was big letters by accident :P
May 20 10:40:40 * mrmoku touched caps lock without wanting to :)
May 20 10:40:51 <mrmoku> new keyboard is still a bit slippery
May 20 10:41:17 <mrmoku> ptitjes, just thought I'd ask... because PaulFertser built on i686
May 20 10:41:32 <mrmoku> to know for sure it is supposed to work on x86_64...
May 20 10:42:35 <ptitjes> héhéhé
May 20 10:42:50 <ptitjes> mrmoku: and what is your buildhost ?
May 20 10:43:10 <mrmoku> x86_64
May 20 10:43:16 <mrmoku> and SHR buildhost too
May 20 10:48:39 <spaetz> oh god, please remove http://www.angstrom-distribution.org as SRC already, it's a major PITA
May 20 10:49:09 <spaetz> the only use it has is preventing my CPU from overheating as it forces pauses inbetween packages
May 20 10:51:07 <Deubeuliou> Ainulindale: about the tabs: I never use tabs, I always use a 4-spaces indentation
May 20 10:51:38 <ptitjes> spaetz: +1
May 20 10:51:40 <von_fritz> mrmoku just curious .. AMD or intel ?
May 20 10:51:52 <Deubeuliou> but I understand why one would prefer tabs
May 20 10:52:12 <ptitjes> hello Deubeuliou 
May 20 10:52:17 <Deubeuliou> spaces are recommended by Python's coding style
May 20 10:52:20 <Deubeuliou> hi Didier
May 20 10:52:23 <spaetz> Deubeuliou: is there really an advantage of one over the other as long as people agree on one way?
May 20 10:52:48 <spaetz> I don't think that saving source code space is a valid argument nowadays, so either solution is fine
May 20 10:52:51 <Deubeuliou> oh, no, sorry, that is not what I meant
May 20 10:52:56 <mickeyl> spaetz: just remove it from the tarball stash
May 20 10:53:01 <Deubeuliou> if everybody agrees with tabs, I'll use tabs
May 20 10:53:22 <mickeyl> i recommend only using the proposed code convention for C
May 20 10:53:30 <spaetz> Deubeuliou: yep, I understood that. Just saying, either way is fine, as long as people stick to one way
May 20 10:53:31 <mickeyl> other languages have other idioms, hence other conventions
May 20 10:53:48 <Deubeuliou> yes
May 20 10:53:54 <Deubeuliou> it must not be mixed
May 20 10:54:19 <Ainulindale> Deubeuliou: ok so it's clear enough to me :-)
May 20 10:54:28 <mrmoku> von_fritz, me intell... the buildhost AMD IIRC
May 20 10:54:32 <Ainulindale> As for python, then someone raise the subject :-)
May 20 10:54:33 <mrmoku> s/intell/intel/
May 20 10:54:36 <Deubeuliou> the advantage I see for tabs over spaces is the semantic
May 20 10:55:01 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: could I propose some conventions for Vala then ?
May 20 10:55:03 <mickeyl> i for one am pretty anal when it comes to coding conventions. 
May 20 10:55:12 <mickeyl> i can only read certain styles fluently
May 20 10:55:22 <mickeyl> and have a natural hesitation to read other styles ;)
May 20 10:55:27 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: You're just saying that for me to react right? :-)
May 20 10:55:27 <Deubeuliou> (and I can setup vim for making tabs a 4-spaces-width symbol if I find that 8 is too wide)
May 20 10:55:36 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: mind your chastity belt :-)
May 20 10:55:37 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: not at all :)
May 20 10:56:23 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: could you apply a patch on libfso-glib_git.bb please, if I send it to you by mail ?
May 20 10:58:13 <ptitjes> hum....
May 20 10:58:24 <Deubeuliou> ptitjes: what conventions would you set that are not covered by C ones ?
May 20 10:58:52 <mickeyl> it starts with naming and ends with source layout
May 20 10:59:18 <Ainulindale> well naming conventions :-)
May 20 10:59:20 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: maybe the nmespace|class|interface should not be announced in the C coding conventions, as that might confuse non-Vala codersw
May 20 10:59:50 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: we'll have another church fight with that :-p
May 20 11:00:08 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so I take for a "yes go on write some Vala code conventions"
May 20 11:00:09 <Deubeuliou> they may be seen as classes
May 20 11:00:41 <ptitjes> +it
May 20 11:01:06 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: hehe
May 20 11:01:29 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: but as told earlier on I have no true opinion on that
May 20 11:01:33 <Ainulindale> I go along with the majority
May 20 11:01:36 <Ainulindale> It doesn't matter to me
May 20 11:01:39 <mickeyl> that's fair
May 20 11:01:45 <mickeyl> i'd love to say it doesn't matter to me as well
May 20 11:01:50 <Ainulindale> Well I have more important opinion to fight for :-)
May 20 11:01:52 <Ainulindale> +s
May 20 11:01:55 <mickeyl> true
May 20 11:02:01 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: btw, could you do a little hack on buildhost to build vala-native once and then all subsequent builds will be ok?
May 20 11:02:17 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, what should I do?
May 20 11:02:22 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: or is it critical for buildhost to be able to build a clean tree?
May 20 11:02:28 * mrmoku would do anything at this point to get the damn thing to build
May 20 11:02:29 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: it involves jumping on one leg :-)
May 20 11:02:48 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, would even jump on one leg in my undies if that helps :P
May 20 11:02:57 <Ainulindale> I can do that for you I'm still in my undies
May 20 11:03:14 <mrmoku> go ahead then... but turn on the webcam first, please ;)
May 20 11:03:16 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: well, do bitbake -c compile vala-native, when it fails, remove .libs/valac and relink command from valac wrapper, then do bitbake vala-native again.
May 20 11:03:19 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: perv!
May 20 11:03:22 <ptitjes> mickeyl: about libfso-glib recipe, it seems we work both on the same stuff at the same time :(
May 20 11:03:33 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, ok, trying that now
May 20 11:03:43 <mickeyl> ptitjes: yeah, that will be fun for merging
May 20 11:03:50 <ptitjes> nooo
May 20 11:04:02 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: leave relink command empty, not remove it altogether.
May 20 11:04:25 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: i thought you needed a real solution, not an ad hoc workaround ;)
May 20 11:05:02 <ptitjes> mickeyl: btw it seems to me that your recipe does not publish the vapi
May 20 11:05:04 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, well, a real solution is what we want, yeah... though meanwhile I would like to be able to build an image...
May 20 11:05:30 <mrmoku> an then... I'm convinced it is all dos1's fault ;)
May 20 11:05:33 <ptitjes> mickeyl: oh sorry did not see the FILES_ contained a space
May 20 11:05:37 <mickeyl> :)
May 20 11:05:39 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: and after vala-native will get installed to the staging area, it should be able to build even with the wrong wrapper.
May 20 11:06:01 <dos1> mrmoku: i will jump on one leg, could it help? ;)
May 20 11:06:02 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: pong you nagging french frog
May 20 11:06:09 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: howdy!
May 20 11:06:14 <Ainulindale> I forgot what I had to tell you
May 20 11:06:22 <ptitjes> mickeyl: btw, you'll have fun when merging. my recipe is already in OE ;)
May 20 11:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> pha
May 20 11:07:03 <mickeyl> ptitjes: i know. we need to talk about the future of the fso and shr branches on weekend
May 20 11:07:25 <ptitjes> yep
May 20 11:07:38 <mickeyl> i think we should share one branch for shr and fso as we don't have any resources to work on distro anymore
May 20 11:07:39 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: shr branches?
May 20 11:07:49 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: you mean overlay right?
May 20 11:07:52 <mickeyl> no, branch
May 20 11:07:58 <mickeyl> i want to propose you getting rid of your overlay
May 20 11:08:04 <mickeyl> working in a branch instead
May 20 11:08:04 <Ainulindale> well it'll be difficult
May 20 11:08:09 <Ainulindale> althought I'd tend to agree in the end
May 20 11:08:13 <Ainulindale> but we have lots of patches
May 20 11:08:23 <Ainulindale> things nytowl wouldn't like
May 20 11:08:24 <mickeyl> well, the branch won't take care about the amount of patches :)
May 20 11:08:28 <mickeyl> ah wait
May 20 11:08:40 <mickeyl> this is not necesarily tied to OM
May 20 11:08:46 <Ainulindale> Then it's good to me
May 20 11:08:48 <mickeyl> i'm talking fso/shr here
May 20 11:08:49 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: remove .libs/lt-valac i meant.
May 20 11:08:49 <ptitjes> yep patches should be commits in a branch
May 20 11:08:50 <Ainulindale> Sharing efforts seems logical
May 20 11:09:03 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: though probably it's unnecessary.
May 20 11:09:05 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: I just thought you want to keep using the nytowl- branch
May 20 11:09:13 <Ainulindale> +ed
May 20 11:09:31 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: no, nytol will always have to do too many hacks
May 20 11:09:42 <Ainulindale> Then it's all good to me :-)
May 20 11:09:46 <mickeyl> in order to stabilize for a release
May 20 11:09:49 <mickeyl> or waht not
May 20 11:09:53 <Ainulindale> If we can commit things the way we use it
May 20 11:09:58 <Ainulindale> It'll be far more convenient
May 20 11:10:07 <Ainulindale> But it'll make us go further from OE dev
May 20 11:10:13 <Ainulindale> +away
May 20 11:10:22 <mickeyl> that depends on your willingness to merge
May 20 11:10:31 <Ainulindale> On "our" you mean :-)
May 20 11:10:38 <mickeyl> yes, scratch the 'y'
May 20 11:10:41 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: the shr subtree is ready
May 20 11:10:44 <Ainulindale> the real problem are patches
May 20 11:10:44 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: this is a patch
May 20 11:10:59 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: as we have lots of tweaks & whatnot
May 20 11:11:11 <mickeyl> well
May 20 11:11:17 <mickeyl> you could always add more branches
May 20 11:11:18 <mickeyl> like
May 20 11:11:25 <mickeyl> shr-pending-upstream
May 20 11:11:26 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: maybe we'll be able to review them this week-end
May 20 11:11:27 <mickeyl> shr-release
May 20 11:11:41 <mickeyl> (review) yes, we should take the time to do that. it's very important
May 20 11:11:48 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: my problem with an OE branch is that we need to have a fast reaction time locally
May 20 11:11:54 <Ainulindale> And it might be lengthy to add a new commiter
May 20 11:12:08 <Ainulindale> So maybe having a local SHR sandbox commited into the branch regularly isn't a bad idea
May 20 11:12:15 <Ainulindale> Thoughts?
May 20 11:12:29 <mickeyl> at the end of the day use the workflow that works for you
May 20 11:12:38 <mickeyl> my main interest is getting stuff into .dev
May 20 11:12:45 <mickeyl> and having a stable tree to work on
May 20 11:12:47 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: I get that and I couldn't agree morei n the end
May 20 11:12:51 <mickeyl> and this stable tree would be our shared branch
May 20 11:13:09 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: it'd solve a lot of our issues anyway (such as time consuming maintenance)
May 20 11:13:14 <mickeyl> yep
May 20 11:13:19 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: but this would imply somehow a "shared board"
May 20 11:13:36 <Ainulindale> for big decisions such as EFL_SRCREV or vala migration
May 20 11:13:50 <Ainulindale> Or do you have any other idea to handle that?
May 20 11:14:21 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: "that thing" I sent you is only a patch for libfso-glib_git.bb
May 20 11:14:26 <mickeyl> not offhand
May 20 11:14:30 <mickeyl> you're probably right
May 20 11:14:30 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you have OE commits rights, right ?
May 20 11:14:46 <mickeyl> with the hat of FSO on, i can tell you that we want to go out of the distro business completely
May 20 11:14:46 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: that's mainly why I submitted you to the shr-coreteam list anyway :-)
May 20 11:14:53 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: because I think you're part of the problem somehow
May 20 11:14:57 <mickeyl> haha
May 20 11:15:00 <mickeyl> well put
May 20 11:15:03 <Ainulindale> :-)
May 20 11:15:09 <Ainulindale> But more seriously
May 20 11:15:10 <ptitjes> mickeyl: good news!
May 20 11:15:11 <Ainulindale> Your problems impact us
May 20 11:15:30 <Ainulindale> And we're a community consumer (well, "the" community consumer, so to speak, sorry mirko-paroli)
May 20 11:15:39 <mickeyl> sure. i know that. my problem is that i'm wearing multiple hats. 
May 20 11:15:40 <Ainulindale> So we need to work hands in hands I think
May 20 11:15:48 <mickeyl> full ACK
May 20 11:15:51 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: well stack them on top of each other
May 20 11:15:56 <mickeyl> heh
May 20 11:16:03 <Ainulindale> I don't like hat myself
May 20 11:16:04 <mickeyl> i'd love to, but some are mutually exclusive
May 20 11:16:05 <Ainulindale> +s
May 20 11:16:08 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: sry but i find the whole debate about this so useless
May 20 11:16:09 <Ainulindale> I'm sure it'd speed up my baldness
May 20 11:16:14 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: about what?
May 20 11:16:29 <mirko-paroli> this who is good for whom and who belags to the community
May 20 11:16:29 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: was just stating that paroli is (unfortunately) not considered a "community" project in my eyes
May 20 11:16:35 <Ainulindale> feel free to prove me wrong
May 20 11:16:44 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: woow slow down :-)
May 20 11:16:48 <Ainulindale> I'm not saying that paroli is bad :-)
May 20 11:16:52 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: I know
May 20 11:16:53 <Ainulindale> Just that you're tied to OM
May 20 11:16:57 <mirko-paroli> yepp
May 20 11:16:59 <Ainulindale> And that's what bugs me
May 20 11:17:03 <mirko-paroli> and that makes me and everything I do evel
May 20 11:17:05 <mirko-paroli> evil
May 20 11:17:08 <Ainulindale> Nope
May 20 11:17:10 <Ainulindale> Not evil :-)
May 20 11:17:13 <mirko-paroli> just bad
May 20 11:17:16 <Ainulindale> Neither
May 20 11:17:19 <dos1> just not community
May 20 11:17:23 <dos1> (if i get him right)
May 20 11:17:30 <Ainulindale> It's just that you have objectives & priorities
May 20 11:17:38 <Ainulindale> Not related exactly to the community but to the business
May 20 11:17:40 <Ainulindale> It is a thin line
May 20 11:17:42 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: LOL
May 20 11:17:46 <Ainulindale> It's not a reproach I'm saying out there mirko-paroli 
May 20 11:17:56 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: you should read up on the news
May 20 11:17:57 <Ainulindale> It's just that if the design team tells you to do X well you'll have to
May 20 11:18:03 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: Ah? Link?
May 20 11:18:17 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: never mind, I don't have energy for this
May 20 11:18:18 <mickeyl> mirko-paroli: i heard you're not making it to F9N?
May 20 11:18:23 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: I don't read OM Mls these adys
May 20 11:18:25 <Ainulindale> s/ad/da/
May 20 11:19:48 <spaetz>  if paroli is any better than other options, I wouldn0t hesitate to use it
May 20 11:19:53 <spaetz> for SHR, I mean
May 20 11:19:54 <Ainulindale> So would I
May 20 11:20:10 <Ainulindale> But I'll drive it for the community :-)
May 20 11:20:17 <mickeyl> here comes the next hat: API architect
May 20 11:20:24 <mickeyl> as an API architect, I want multiple clients
May 20 11:20:34 <mickeyl> so I'd rather not have all folks merge ;)
May 20 11:20:40 <Ainulindale> That's obvious :-)
May 20 11:21:11 <mickeyl> and i seriously want to get involved in UI again, btw.
May 20 11:21:12 <spaetz> this from the guy wanting less fragmentation ;-)
May 20 11:21:21 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: you're insane
May 20 11:21:34 <Ainulindale> spaetz: I guess he's talking about low level fragmentation
May 20 11:21:35 <mickeyl> spaetz: true, it's a thin line on whcih i walk
May 20 11:21:45 <Ainulindale> But anyway just to make things clear
May 20 11:21:48 <mickeyl> but true, it's rather about fragmentation below the value line
May 20 11:21:49 <Ainulindale> I have no issue at all with paroli
May 20 11:21:55 <Ainulindale> Just with its link to OM
May 20 11:22:01 <Ainulindale> If I'm wrong about that please say so :-)
May 20 11:22:02 <mickeyl> value line being UI and domain specific services
May 20 11:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: you're wrong :-)
May 20 11:22:55 <mickeyl> i think paroli is more or less free these days
May 20 11:22:58 <Ainulindale> You just saying that to poke me, assface! :-)
May 20 11:23:05 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: that's good!
May 20 11:23:18 <Ainulindale> Free about all the choices?
May 20 11:23:45 <spaetz> Ainulindale: then we can't use gtk, e or the linux kernel either :)
May 20 11:23:47 <mickeyl> no idea, mirko-paroli can answer that, but given the state of focus shift, i presume mirko-paroli more or less is in charge here
May 20 11:23:58 * spaetz has no problems with a project being linked to a company
May 20 11:24:05 <Ainulindale> spaetz: they're funded, not tied to business decision :-)
May 20 11:24:38 <spaetz> Ainulindale: I disagree, I have conducted interviews with Telco managers who fund eg gtk development
May 20 11:24:45 <Ainulindale> And?
May 20 11:24:58 <spaetz> employing peole to implement their business decisions directly
May 20 11:25:02 <spaetz> people
May 20 11:25:17 <Ainulindale> Yes but this had no impact on the project as a whole
May 20 11:25:18 <spaetz> in that funding=implementing business decisions
May 20 11:25:25 <Ainulindale> That is "don't do that here"
May 20 11:25:34 <Ainulindale> As it was done with illume / qwerty for example
May 20 11:25:34 <khiraly1> and why is bad, if the company wants the same thing as me? (speaking about an application)
May 20 11:25:37 <Ainulindale> That's what I'm talking about
May 20 11:26:02 <khiraly1> I do love some application, which I would really like to see opensourced. Like wingide for example
May 20 11:26:06 <dos1> khiraly1: openmoko with ASU showed, that they don't want the same things as community
May 20 11:26:26 <dos1> maybe that's why people are scepticic to paroli
May 20 11:26:30 <khiraly1> ASU was a nonsense. And this whole qtopia thing
May 20 11:26:51 <tmzt> illume/qwerty?
May 20 11:27:04 <Ainulindale> well I don't think paroli is bad per se, I just think that it's bad IF OM the company forces paroli to do something the community doesn't want to
May 20 11:27:05 <khiraly1> they are kept fixing qtopia bugs, when they was already working on e
May 20 11:27:08 <Ainulindale> +have
May 20 11:27:12 <DocScrutinizer> tmzt: ask raster
May 20 11:27:32 <khiraly1> tmzt: they forced raster to implement a qtopia keyboard replacement. or what
May 20 11:27:51 <dos1> khiraly1: lol, no
May 20 11:27:56 <khiraly1> tmzt: raster implemented a completely new software based on e. Which is truely awesome
May 20 11:28:04 <dos1> oh
May 20 11:28:10 <dos1> ok, you doesn't finish ;)
May 20 11:28:11 <tmzt> I know this much :)
May 20 11:28:31 <dos1> uhhh
May 20 11:28:32 <dos1> my english
May 20 11:28:45 <khiraly1> tmzt: so its not nice if somebody *force* you to implement one thing, when you know a much better way
May 20 11:28:49 <tmzt> not getting it though, qtopia is not X
May 20 11:29:13 <dos1> tmzt: in ASU was used crappy ported-to-X Qtopia keyboard
May 20 11:29:26 <dos1> tmzt: when raster's keyboard was available
May 20 11:29:34 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: "Et ? C'est quoi le rapport ?"
May 20 11:29:40 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: what's the problem ?
May 20 11:29:46 <tmzt> can't say I've had much luck with the illume keyboard though
May 20 11:29:48 <khiraly1> the good way would be to hire raster as a "gui manager". So he could decide about all these things. Because raster has some knowledge about gui and gui development
May 20 11:29:55 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I just ask you to please commit the patch...
May 20 11:29:58 <tmzt> shift and alt are broken for me
May 20 11:30:11 <dos1> illume keyboard is great
May 20 11:30:21 <dos1> qtopia keyboard is ok only on qtopia, not on X11 :P
May 20 11:30:32 <Ainulindale> khiraly1: well the good point about community is that you can ask why it's that way, criticize, come up with new ideas, and reach a consensus in the community
May 20 11:30:32 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and please stop ignoring me
May 20 11:30:40 <Ainulindale> Which is difficult in a company
May 20 11:30:43 <spaetz> dos1: thanks for the AUX button handling. Do you know if the package has been rebuild?
May 20 11:30:51 <Ainulindale> I don't think OM did that completely
May 20 11:30:59 <dos1> spaetz: ask mrmoku :>
May 20 11:31:05 <khiraly1> Ainulindale: or you can give power to the *right* people
May 20 11:31:11 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: what game are you playing ?
May 20 11:31:11 <dos1> i think he is jumping now on one leg :D
May 20 11:32:04 <tmzt> does anybody have clone command/url for frameworkd.git on shr?
May 20 11:32:10 * mrmoku wonders how long he has to do that... as it still has no effect :(
May 20 11:32:14 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, no go
May 20 11:32:24 <dos1> ptitjes: please kiss Ainulindale
May 20 11:32:26 <ptitjes> mrmoku: damned
May 20 11:32:28 <dos1> Ainulindale: please kiss ptitjes
May 20 11:32:31 <dos1> and say
May 20 11:32:36 <Ainulindale> dos1: what?
May 20 11:32:39 <spaetz> mrmoku: can you rebuild the package containing e.src ?
May 20 11:32:39 <mrmoku> just removing stuff in .libs does not recreate it
May 20 11:32:40 <ptitjes> dos1: I don't understand what game he plays
May 20 11:32:51 <spaetz> or has it been done since yesterday?
May 20 11:32:55 <ptitjes> dos1: I sent him a patch and he does as if he don't understanf
May 20 11:33:01 <khiraly1> Ainulindale: the whole problem was, om tried desperately produce an end user phone in no time (3-6 months). Which is impossible, so they choosed always the broken and quickest way. So this is why qtopia was choosen. They believed qtopia is ready. And after half year they were desperatly fixing qtopia bugs
May 20 11:33:02 <ptitjes> -f+d
May 20 11:33:02 <mrmoku> if I remove the valacompiler.o it recreates it... but also recreates the valac wrapper :(
May 20 11:33:09 <dos1> "I'M SORRY"
May 20 11:33:10 <dos1> ;>
May 20 11:33:12 <Ainulindale> khiraly1: yep :-/
May 20 11:33:25 <dos1> or if you don't want
May 20 11:33:28 <dos1> go to another playground!
May 20 11:33:30 <dos1> :D
May 20 11:33:34 <mrmoku> spaetz, have to update overlay first?
May 20 11:33:47 <spaetz> dos1 commited 8 hours ago or so
May 20 11:34:03 <spaetz> 18h ago, actually :)
May 20 11:34:05 <ptitjes> dos1: those words were for me ?
May 20 11:34:15 <khiraly1> the best solution would be give the power to the right people, and accept it that a working phone takes time. There are even some kernel/gsm bugs still. 
May 20 11:34:21 <dos1> ptitjes: you in plural ;) and just joking, no offence :P
May 20 11:34:38 <ptitjes> dos1: I don't understand why I should be sorry
May 20 11:34:56 <ptitjes> dos1: In fact, I did nothing than not agree with him
May 20 11:35:02 <mickeyl> ptitjes: should we open a bug about this problem with the signal-only interfaces or do you think Jürg already knows?
May 20 11:35:05 <ptitjes> dos1: and in fact I'm not alone
May 20 11:35:47 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: does it recreate valac wrapper after you modify it?
May 20 11:36:06 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: valac wrapper should be slightly altered, not removed.
May 20 11:36:14 <ptitjes> dos1: I repeat it as we stated with some in private: there is no point doing DBus APIs if we don't support the external phhone UI apps model, and thus we should concentrate on interl UI (non-dbus) apis
May 20 11:36:16 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: i don't think make will recreat it.
May 20 11:36:22 <Ainulindale> khiraly1: well to me the best solution is to keep it as close as we can from the community
May 20 11:36:36 <ptitjes> dos1: some do share my opinion but don't dare telling it loud because of Ainulindale 
May 20 11:36:46 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, it recreates it when it has to recreate .libs/lt-valac
May 20 11:36:57 <mrmoku> though just deleting lt-valac does not make it recreate it
May 20 11:36:59 <dos1> ptitjes: so maybe write mail about it? :x
May 20 11:37:00 <ptitjes> mickey|lunch: I don't know it seems you spoke about it yesterday with him, right ?
May 20 11:37:11 <khiraly1> Ainulindale: look at iphone. It was coded behind the world. And turned out to be damn good usable. (its pity it has way more restrictions what I could accept)
May 20 11:37:11 <ptitjes> dos1: this is what I did there:
May 20 11:37:14 <mrmoku> just deleting it brings the "this is a wrapper..." error
May 20 11:37:20 <khiraly1> and the keyboard of iphone is just a shame
May 20 11:37:41 <Ainulindale> khiraly1: don't know, didn't use it :-)
May 20 11:37:45 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, when deleting valacompiler.o it recreates lt-valac and valac in lib... but also the wrapper with the relink command :(
May 20 11:37:47 <dos1> khiraly1: i don't like keyboard on iphone, and even touchscreen on iphone
May 20 11:37:51 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: can you try not removing anything then and just alter valac wrapper?
May 20 11:37:58 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, ok
May 20 11:38:03 * Weiss wonders about making a variant of xcompmgr work on OM, then having a nice, LARGE, transparent keyboard
May 20 11:38:08 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: valacompiler.o shouldn't be removed, that's for sure.
May 20 11:38:09 <dos1> khiraly1: my fingers don't like that touchscreen ;) also in G1
May 20 11:38:09 <DocScrutinizer> ptitjes: where can I read a summary about that topic? Incl you rationale and a report about the advantages this buys us?
May 20 11:38:15 <dos1> khiraly1: my fingers are pro-resistive :D
May 20 11:38:21 * mrmoku has to wait for e-wm-config-illume-shr to finish first...
May 20 11:38:30 <khiraly1> my friend while driving a car, bought a highway matrice, and looked at the maps (using builting gps of iphone) where we are, were should he take directions. In *no* time
May 20 11:38:50 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: I'm searching in the archives
May 20 11:38:53 <khiraly1> like under a minute. He impressed me a lot
May 20 11:39:01 <spaetz> merci beacoup mrmoku
May 20 11:39:02 <DocScrutinizer> ptitjes: I'm not mute due to Ainulindale ;-)
May 20 11:39:09 <khiraly1> spaetz: beaucoup
May 20 11:39:10 <spaetz> beaucoup
May 20 11:39:13 <spaetz> typo :)
May 20 11:39:16 <thrashold> I'm getting this when trying to use latest ophonekitd with latest framework: http://pastebin.com/m55359685 Anyone got any clues?
May 20 11:39:20 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: what? Mute to me? What's that now?
May 20 11:39:23 <Ainulindale> +due
May 20 11:39:26 <khiraly1> spaetz: desole
May 20 11:39:47 <ptitjes> could someone tell Ainulindale to remove me from its IRC ignore list
May 20 11:39:58 <dos1> thrashold: killall -9 python; killall -9 ophonekitd; killall gsm0710muxd
May 20 11:40:13 <dos1> thrashold: and run all of those again :P
May 20 11:40:34 <DocScrutinizer> ptitjes: it's hard to get off someones ignorelist :-)
May 20 11:41:21 <spaetz> dos1: btw, ophonekitd doesn't respond to CTRL-C
May 20 11:41:43 <spaetz> do you think it'd be difficult to get it to quit?
May 20 11:41:53 <dos1> spaetz: i know, i filled a ticket about that
May 20 11:41:58 <dos1> killall -9 ophonekitd ;)
May 20 11:41:58 <spaetz> ahh, ok
May 20 11:42:04 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: anyway this is the whole point of this thread: http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-devel/2009-May/000037.html
May 20 11:42:34 <ptitjes> damn it is easier in my mail client  :)
May 20 11:43:19 <mrmoku> spaetz, ok, it hit the feed
May 20 11:43:55 <spaetz> cool, thanks
May 20 11:44:08 <spaetz> mucho appreciato
May 20 11:44:14 <Ainulindale> yuk
May 20 11:44:18 <Ainulindale> what a bad spanglish :-)
May 20 11:45:11 <khiraly1> Ainulindale: but it is true, what is happening now (with distributions, shr, phone softwares, etc), it should already happened back in GTA01 times
May 20 11:45:29 <Ainulindale> What do you mean by "it" exactly?
May 20 11:46:12 <khiraly1> we should already have shr on gta01. And all this development. 
May 20 11:46:21 <Ainulindale> Sadly yes
May 20 11:46:22 <khiraly1> Shr is only started in summer 2008
May 20 11:46:32 <Ainulindale> It's difficult to build a real community out of this
May 20 11:46:34 <thrashold> dos1: Should framework start gsm0710muxd, or it should be started beforehand, or should dbus start it? :)
May 20 11:46:35 <Ainulindale> OM should have done that
May 20 11:46:40 <Ainulindale> I spent months doing PR
May 20 11:46:44 <Ainulindale> So did mickey|lunch for FSO
May 20 11:46:45 <khiraly1> gta01 was out when? 2006? nothing happened 'til gta02
May 20 11:46:49 <Ainulindale> It's not that easy
May 20 11:46:59 <Ainulindale> thrashold: framework
May 20 11:47:19 <dos1> thrashold: frameworkd should start gsm0710muxd
May 20 11:49:17 <khiraly1> Ainulindale: there is no point to do gta03, gta04, etc until the software not matured enough. In a half year, our software will be kick ass. So now is the right time to develop a gta03, gta04, etc. Too bad openmoko ran out of money
May 20 11:49:34 <Ainulindale> yep 
May 20 11:50:07 <khiraly1> all this was necessary. You cant win olympic without wining some challenge before it ;)
May 20 11:50:17 <Ainulindale> Hmmmm
May 20 11:50:21 <Ainulindale> I heard that somewhere
May 20 11:50:28 <Ainulindale> In the 100th family guy episode I think :-)
May 20 11:50:52 <khiraly1> doh. Never seen family guy
May 20 11:51:00 <Ainulindale> Too bad it's great :-)
May 20 11:51:07 <khiraly1> better: never could watch till the end
May 20 11:51:08 <khiraly1> ;)
May 20 11:51:17 <ptitjes> Can someone that has OE commit rights please apply a little patch for me on libfso-glib_git.bb as it seems Ainulindale won't help ?
May 20 11:51:25 <ptitjes> Ask me and I'll send the patch by mail.
May 20 12:03:03 <dos1> spaetz: sorry :(
May 20 12:03:12 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-themes * rf60436df6467 10/e-wm/e-wm-config-illume-shr/e.src: e-wm-config-illume-shr: fix AUX handling
May 20 12:04:12 <spaetz> dos1: ahh, it wouldn't work otherwise? OK. so let's rebuild once again....
May 20 12:04:31 <spaetz> mrmoku: pretty please? e-wm-config-illume-shr once again :)
May 20 12:04:39 <dos1> let's hope it will work now :D
May 20 12:05:11 * mrmoku wonders what happened to the 'test-first' rule :P
May 20 12:05:14 <mrmoku> will do
May 20 12:05:46 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, guess just emptying the relink_command is not enough
May 20 12:06:09 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, could you give me your valac wrapper?
May 20 12:06:27 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, can diff them then... and try with yours
May 20 12:06:37 <spaetz> I still can't test, my build env is still waiting for angstrom-distribution :)
May 20 12:07:12 <mrmoku> hah, dos1 is the one who should have tested... before comitting ;)
May 20 12:07:43 <mrmoku> ptitjes, why don't you just add it to the overlay?
May 20 12:08:08 <mrmoku> ptitjes, that's what I do when I need to change stuff in OE
May 20 12:08:16 <dos1> mrmoku: don't build!
May 20 12:08:17 <dos1> :x
May 20 12:08:38 <mrmoku> too late :P
May 20 12:08:44 <ptitjes> mrmoku: you mean adding yet another patch, when it is a very little modification ?
May 20 12:08:52 <mrmoku> ptitjes, yep
May 20 12:09:16 <dos1> mrmoku: simple_lock is borked :P
May 20 12:09:17 <dos1> it locks
May 20 12:09:19 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I would be ok if the overlay was a clone, but it is not
May 20 12:09:28 <dos1> but it doesn't unlock :x
May 20 12:09:34 <mrmoku> ptitjes, what do you mean by that?
May 20 12:09:39 <spaetz> dos1: ??? How can that be
May 20 12:09:41 <spaetz> weird
May 20 12:10:00 <KaZeR_mobi> hello there
May 20 12:10:08 <spaetz> raster!!!
May 20 12:10:18 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I mean the overlay should be a git clone of OE tree, and we could apply commits on it, that could have a chance to move to OE latter
May 20 12:10:19 <KaZeR_mobi> does anyone knows a way to decode pdu messages via command-line
May 20 12:10:25 <KaZeR_mobi> ?
May 20 12:10:40 <dos1> spaetz: i don't know...
May 20 12:10:47 <mrmoku> ptitjes, nah, that is what OM did... and failed... and had to do a painfull remerge
May 20 12:11:23 <ptitjes> mrmoku: this what mickey|lunch does
May 20 12:11:31 <ptitjes> mrmoku: this waht fso does too
May 20 12:11:58 <ptitjes> mrmoku: they branch
May 20 12:12:25 <ptitjes> mrmoku: and this is what will do too when moving to OE
May 20 12:13:05 <ptitjes> mrmoku: having sets of patches applied above a git tree is insane IMHO
May 20 12:13:22 <mrmoku> ptitjes, what mickey|lunch does is caused by a special situation
May 20 12:13:47 <mrmoku> ptitjes, and if you don't want to add that patch... just don't do it :P
May 20 12:13:57 <ptitjes> mrmoku: how do those patch are managed, in case upstream modifications occur on files that we patch
May 20 12:14:22 <mrmoku> ptitjes, they won't apply... and we either can remove them (because upstream) or adjust them
May 20 12:14:38 <ptitjes> mrmoku: how one must manage its git commits above OE, when lots of patches are applied and git diff does not show your modifications but the SHR patches
May 20 12:15:10 <mrmoku> ptitjes, I'm doing this for half a year now... having no problems
May 20 12:15:24 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I think the least that could be done is to reply the git apply (in apply-patches.sh) by git am
May 20 12:15:30 <mrmoku> ptitjes, I keep local branches in my OE repo... to produce the patches
May 20 12:16:04 <ptitjes> mrmoku: so why not publish this branch and thus having commits for every patches for us too
May 20 12:17:10 <mrmoku> ptitjes, I'm having a branch for every patch... don't see why you would want them
May 20 12:17:24 <mrmoku> ptitjes, just do make update and you have the patches applied... and can do your branching
May 20 12:17:56 <dos1> don't kill me!
May 20 12:17:58 <dos1> ;x
May 20 12:18:00 <mrmoku> ptitjes, publishing my local branches would be a bad thing... because I redo or rebase them
May 20 12:18:02 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-themes * r7e981ec5b4c1 10/e-wm/e-wm-config-illume-shr/e.src: e-wm-config-illume-shr: fix command, which runs shr-settings
May 20 12:18:03 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-themes * rca2a198436fc 10/e-wm/e-wm-config-illume-shr/e.src: Revert "e-wm-config-illume-shr: fix AUX handling"
May 20 12:18:03 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-themes * r4e29da7bd6ba 10/e-wm/e-wm-config-illume-shr/e.src: Revert "e-wm-config-illume-shr: AUX menu on long press"
May 20 12:18:04 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-themes * ra89288a56ba0 10/e-wm/e-wm-config-illume-shr/e.src: Revert "e-wm-config-illume-shr: fix command, which runs shr-settings"
May 20 12:18:57 <Ainulindale> Talking about the cloning vs patching again I guess?
May 20 12:21:31 <mrmoku> yep
May 20 12:22:15 <mrmoku> dos1, did you test it?
May 20 12:22:33 <ptitjes> mrmoku: yep this is what I'm forced to do everytime:
May 20 12:23:25 <ptitjes> mrmoku: git stash && cd ../ && make update && cd openembedded && git stash apply
May 20 12:23:32 <spaetz> mrmoku: last ones are "revert", so I guess we are back to normal
May 20 12:23:32 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: well anyway this will stay that way in order for it to be a sandbox thing and minimize problems
May 20 12:24:03 <mrmoku> spaetz, shall I build then?
May 20 12:24:05 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: Until we talk with mickey|lunch about alternatives that is :-)
May 20 12:24:24 <mrmoku> ptitjes, see... I don't want to do that for those small little OE patches... don't see no need for it
May 20 12:24:31 <spaetz> mrmoku: let me check git log. Not sure what's the current state now. Or even better, dos1 should tell us :)
May 20 12:24:42 <mrmoku> dos1, TELL US :P
May 20 12:24:50 <dos1> mrmoku: now it's as it was few days ago
May 20 12:24:55 <dos1> just working simple_lock
May 20 12:25:04 <mrmoku> ok, building then...
May 20 12:25:35 <ptitjes> mrmoku: still no vala on buildhost ?
May 20 12:25:42 <spaetz> so we need raster to tell us why it won't work
May 20 12:25:59 <ptitjes> mrmoku: when you have it, I'll be glad if you try ophonekitd-vala recipe :)
May 20 12:26:42 <mrmoku> ptitjes, no, no vala...
May 20 12:27:17 <mrmoku> ptitjes, do you have the valac libtool wrapper script around?
May 20 12:27:26 <ptitjes> mrmoku: sure
May 20 12:27:28 <ptitjes> mrmoku: mail ?
May 20 12:28:00 <ptitjes> that ^ meant "would you like a mail with it ?"
May 20 12:28:33 <mirko-paroli> mickey|lunch: right I won't make it
May 20 12:28:54 <mirko-paroli> mickey|lunch: it all turned out quite differently from what I expected here, so I had to kinda change my whole life
May 20 12:29:09 <ptitjes> mrmoku: could you give me the path of the exact file you need ?
May 20 12:29:59 <mrmoku> git/compiler/valac
May 20 12:30:18 <mrmoku> (in the workdir)
May 20 12:31:35 <Ainulindale> What a great day today is, warm weather, going to rollerskate tonight I think
May 20 12:31:43 <ptitjes> mrmoku: sent
May 20 12:31:55 <mrmoku> ptitjes, thanks
May 20 12:32:08 <ptitjes> np
May 20 12:33:12 <khiraly1> http://www.paroli-project.org/pics/Screenshot-3.png
May 20 12:33:36 <ptitjes> mickey|lunch: does frameworkd subsystems use DBus APIs to contact other subsystems, though they work in the same process ?
May 20 12:34:41 <spaetz> can we also use nice little green and red phones for the SHR apps please?
May 20 12:34:54 <spaetz> I always shudder when I have to "release" a phone call
May 20 12:34:56 <Ainulindale> spaetz: I made someone open a ticket for that a while ago
May 20 12:35:28 <spaetz> Ainulindale: k, so step 1 is done. Step 2, nice icons.
May 20 12:35:36 * spaetz hums innnocently
May 20 12:35:39 <spaetz> dos1?
May 20 12:35:42 <Ainulindale> spaetz: heh
May 20 12:36:19 <spaetz> you are so great with the visual stuff, aren't you? But I bet you cannot draw nice phone icons :)
May 20 12:36:57 <spaetz> or grab them from some repository with a compatible license
May 20 12:37:45 <DocScrutinizer> spaetz: Ainulindale: and *pretty please* put the "green" to left and "red" to _right_ side
May 20 12:37:58 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: did you open a ticket for that? :-p
May 20 12:38:12 <DocScrutinizer> f\%@# @%%
May 20 12:38:15 <Ainulindale> hahaha
May 20 12:38:29 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: you didn't answer to me in private by the way :-)
May 20 12:39:04 <DocScrutinizer> wasn't aware there's been any Q
May 20 12:41:06 <dos1> spaetz: i just know how to place text in GIMP and how to do gaussian blur on it ;)
May 20 12:41:20 <dos1> spaetz: but maybe i could fine some good icons
May 20 12:41:34 <mrmoku> dos1, spaetz: hit the feed again
May 20 12:41:44 <dos1> spaetz: do you like icons in shr-settings? they are from oxygen project
May 20 12:42:04 <dos1> mrmoku: can you build libframeworkd-phonegui-efl? :D i don't think it has your latest commit
May 20 12:43:25 <mrmoku> building
May 20 12:44:07 <dos1> spaetz: heh, i should change that "Johny Tenfinger" i think ;)
May 20 12:44:43 <spaetz> dos1: the icons in shr-settings are good
May 20 12:44:52 <spaetz> I like them a lot
May 20 12:45:10 <spaetz> dos1: hehe
May 20 12:45:53 <spaetz> Just downloaded a black simple phone image which is public domain. I'll make a red and a green version of it.
May 20 12:46:18 <dos1> many people on ML are refering to me by Johny ;x
May 20 12:46:19 <spaetz> Who should I bugger to use a png rather than a text label in the button?
May 20 12:46:37 <dos1> spaetz: quickdev :D
May 20 12:46:43 <spaetz> bahhh :)
May 20 12:46:56 <spaetz> ~seen quickdev
May 20 12:47:04 <spaetz> no bot?
May 20 12:47:18 <Ainulindale> quickdev has been away for too long
May 20 12:47:23 <spaetz> anyway, I bet he's been hired by Microsoft by now :)
May 20 12:47:34 <Ainulindale> nah he's sobering from his abitur
May 20 12:47:38 <Ainulindale> takes a while with german piss :-)
May 20 12:47:55 * spaetz slaps Ainulindale with a Masskrug
May 20 12:48:04 <Ainulindale> :-)
May 20 12:48:07 * mrmoku would agree if Ainulindale would have added the word 'north'
May 20 12:48:13 <Ainulindale> haha
May 20 12:48:18 <dos1> spaetz: do you remember Zhone icon?
May 20 12:48:21 <dos1> it's from oxygen also
May 20 12:48:22 * spaetz also slaps mrmoku with a Masskrug
May 20 12:48:23 <Ainulindale> I take that as a full non conditional agreement mrmoku 
May 20 12:48:36 <dos1> spaetz: it has source in svg
May 20 12:48:41 * mrmoku as bavarian is used to that... and does not care ;)
May 20 12:48:46 <dos1> spaetz: we can edit it a bit
May 20 12:48:51 * mrmoku does not even notice :P
May 20 12:48:55 <spaetz> dos1: ok, will have a look, thanks for the pointer
May 20 12:49:21 <dos1> spaetz: every icon in oxygen should have svg source
May 20 12:52:27 <spaetz> dos1: have a pointer to the oxygen icons repo?
May 20 12:52:33 <spaetz> I only found some weblog so far
May 20 12:52:59 <spaetz> but this should do as a start http://openclipart.org/people/Anonymous/Anonymous_aiga_telephone.svg
May 20 12:53:33 <mickeyl> ptitjes: correct. since the plan has always been to seperate subsystems, the whole architecture is not only based on vertical but also horizontal dbus communication
May 20 12:54:16 <ptitjes> mickeyl: thus the "plan" is to package them in separate processes ?
May 20 12:54:37 <ptitjes> right ?
May 20 12:55:02 <mickeyl> ptitjes: yes. although i will -- through means of the buildsystem -- eventually also support packing it together, the default configuration for fso2 will be one subsystem per process.
May 20 12:55:15 <dos1> spaetz: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdesupport/oxygen-icons/
May 20 12:55:15 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: interesting!
May 20 12:55:34 <ptitjes> bam
May 20 12:55:37 <mickeyl> i even want to support a static build
May 20 12:55:40 <mickeyl> no plugins
May 20 12:55:41 <ptitjes> we are here!
May 20 12:55:43 <mickeyl> for some systems
May 20 12:55:57 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: see ^^
May 20 12:56:13 <ptitjes> mickeyl: btw, do you know that using modulo
May 20 12:56:14 <mickeyl> i think for the middleware it makes most sense. Don't take this as recommendation for your architecture
May 20 12:56:17 <ptitjes> libmodulo
May 20 12:56:22 <dos1> spaetz:  svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/kdesupport/oxygen-icons/
May 20 12:56:26 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: I hope we'll be able to talk about our design choices
May 20 12:56:32 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: I'm keen on the idea of preloading screens
May 20 12:56:36 <ptitjes> mickeyl: you could have your all in one process not using dbus calls but direct calls
May 20 12:56:50 <spaetz> dos1: thanks
May 20 12:56:51 <Ainulindale> Though I don't like the idea of having a separate process per library as it'll impact on the connection and all, etc
May 20 12:56:53 <mickeyl> ptitjes: yes, lots of things would be possible.
May 20 12:57:25 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: i'm afraid we won't have enough time to cover everything, but lets stick as much as possible in these two days :)
May 20 12:57:31 <Ainulindale> yep
May 20 12:57:31 <ptitjes> mickeyl: libmodulo offers you the possibility to change the execution model transparently for subsystems developers
May 20 12:57:39 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: when will you be there by the way?
May 20 12:57:45 <Ainulindale> The fortnight?
May 20 12:58:12 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: mid friday, as we want to have fso meeting and hacking session for ms5.5 before anything else
May 20 12:58:22 <Ainulindale> In Essen right?
May 20 12:58:25 <mickeyl> yep
May 20 12:58:34 <Ainulindale> well care if I join? :-p
May 20 12:58:40 <mickeyl> feel free to
May 20 12:58:51 <Ainulindale> I don't know when I'll be there I still have to think that through
May 20 12:58:53 <mickeyl> we might arrive ~15 or 16
May 20 12:59:06 <spaetz> Ainulindale: gtk+ failing again...
May 20 12:59:08 <Ainulindale> But I was planning to arrive that too
May 20 12:59:10 <mickeyl> depending on traffic situation
May 20 12:59:10 <spaetz> /home/spaetz/src/shrbuildenv/shr-unstable/tmp/cross/armv4t/lib/gcc/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/4.1.2/../../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld:.libs/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.ver:2: ignoring invalid character `\001' in script
May 20 12:59:12 <Ainulindale> spaetz: hmpf :-/
May 20 12:59:14 <spaetz> /home/spaetz/src/shrbuildenv/shr-unstable/tmp/cross/armv4t/lib/gcc/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/4.1.2/../../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld:.libs/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.ver:2: syntax error in VERSION script
May 20 13:00:37 <DocScrutinizer> spaetz: nice, but you're not suggesting I read those cryptic urls, or even know what to do with them?
May 20 13:01:19 <spaetz> DocScrutinizer: look closer, they are no URLs :). It's the build failure
May 20 13:01:33 <spaetz> that Ainulindale wanted me to report rather than ditching my OE tmp directory
May 20 13:01:41 <DocScrutinizer> to me it's spam
May 20 13:01:54 <Ainulindale> Hmmm unfortunately I don't know what to make of that
May 20 13:01:58 <Ainulindale> Maybe wrong autotools?
May 20 13:01:59 <spaetz> so is it to me. i want that message to go away.
May 20 13:02:12 * spaetz shrugs. No clue. A virgin SHR install
May 20 13:02:26 <Ainulindale> Well I didn't have that myself.. hmmm...
May 20 13:04:50 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so what is the planning ? when do we go from paris ? from where ? do we follow each other (the two cars) ? where do we stop to buy beers in belgium ?
May 20 13:05:23 <ptitjes> mrmoku: does this help ?
May 20 13:07:45 <DocScrutinizer> ptitjes: you noticed #fsoshr ?
May 20 13:08:07 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: yep, some minutes ago. I just joined to it
May 20 13:08:45 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: you are telling to me I must discuss that there, right ?
May 20 13:09:17 <DocScrutinizer> I don't tell anybody ever "you must" ;-)
May 20 13:09:22 <ptitjes> :D
May 20 13:09:31 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: sorry wrong terminology :)
May 20 13:09:57 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: ok I asked that there
May 20 13:10:00 <DocScrutinizer> just mentioning it's much more on topic there
May 20 13:10:17 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: there's a topic here? :-)
May 20 13:10:18 <ptitjes> DocScrutinizer: though I don't expect any answer...
May 20 13:10:33 <ptitjes> unfortunately
May 20 13:11:33 <mrmoku> ptitjes, no, did not help
May 20 13:11:50 <ptitjes> mrmoku: grrrrrrr
May 20 13:12:40 <mrmoku> ptitjes, do you have libtools installed on your bildhost? what version?
May 20 13:12:41 <dos1> mrmoku: just copy builded vala-native from your desktop to buildhost :D
May 20 13:13:01 <Ainulindale> dos1: (if it's the same arch)
May 20 13:13:22 <Ainulindale> though it won't resolve the dependency problem if he doesn't create the stamps
May 20 13:13:39 <ptitjes> mrmoku: didier@didier-gentoo ~/SHR/shr-unstable $ libtool --version
May 20 13:13:40 <ptitjes> ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 1.5.26 (1.1220.2.493 2008/02/01 16:58:18)
May 20 13:13:46 <mrmoku> dos1, it does NOT BUILD on my desktop :P
May 20 13:13:47 <dos1> mrmoku: then also create stamps ;D
May 20 13:13:58 <dos1> mrmoku: uh... that's bad :P
May 20 13:19:18 <morphis> heyho
May 20 13:19:27 <dos1> morphis: hey
May 20 13:19:40 <dos1> morphis: can you take a look at paroli's python-elementary overlay?
May 20 13:19:52 <TAsn> someone called me?
May 20 13:25:21 <morphis> dos1: you mean paroli's patch for py-elm?
May 20 13:26:12 <dos1> morphis: yep
May 20 13:26:33 <dos1> as far as i have seen it has scroller policy etc.
May 20 13:27:09 <morphis> dos1: my local repository have it too 
May 20 13:27:22 <dos1> morphis: commit? ;)
May 20 13:27:24 <morphis> I just doing some tests and then I will commit the scroller stuff + many other things
May 20 13:27:27 <dos1> i would like to use it in shr-settings
May 20 13:27:32 <morphis> give me 10min :)
May 20 13:27:47 <dos1> more: it's must have before shr release ;)
May 20 13:28:09 <dos1> morphis: thanks :)
May 20 13:28:13 <morphis> no problem :)
May 20 13:29:40 <morphis> dos1: everything for the release goes the right way? or there are some big blockers?
May 20 13:38:08 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: ticket -pahhh. See [devel]
May 20 13:39:05 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: thanks :-)
May 20 13:39:08 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: how could I possibly open a ticket for sth that's missing any rule how to do it right
May 20 13:39:15 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: well
May 20 13:39:20 <Ainulindale> add it as a feature :-)
May 20 13:39:29 <DocScrutinizer> so NOW I might open a ticket eventually
May 20 13:39:38 <Ainulindale> to say you don't know how to open a ticket? :-)
May 20 13:41:06 <DocScrutinizer> I know how to open tickets ;-) "you don't adhere to Joerg's authoritative advice"
May 20 13:41:32 <DocScrutinizer> prepare for spanking ;-D
May 20 13:44:08 <ptitjes|bbl> Ainulindale: why did you ignore the terminology part of my mail ????
May 20 13:44:36 <TAsn> Ainulindale, bah, I'll sum up the coding style soon.
May 20 13:44:38 <TAsn> ;[
May 20 13:45:09 * ptitjes|bbl wonders how much longer he will bear working for SHR if it turns out like that
May 20 13:45:16 <TAsn> mrmoku, phonegui, fixed everything needed? ;]
May 20 13:45:41 <morphis> dos1: I am on the way commiting the stuff, currently I have some troubling with my git-svn solution
May 20 13:47:21 <sylaar1> Ainulindale: mmm why upgrading shr unstable the messages app has the numer bug (it doesn't show contacts' names from the sim phonebook)? I saw a lot of bug in the last days but now any name is show anywhere..
May 20 13:48:18 <Ainulindale> sylaar1: didn't get that, could you repeat it please? :-)
May 20 13:48:40 <Ainulindale> sylaar1: if you don't have any contact instead of numbers, anyway, you should read the user ML
May 20 13:48:44 <sylaar1> Ainulindale: sorry for my bad english :\
May 20 13:48:46 <Ainulindale> You have no to configure our settings
May 20 13:48:47 <Ainulindale> no problem :-)
May 20 13:49:05 <sylaar1> Ainulindale: You have no to configure our settings = You have now to configure our settings?
May 20 13:49:12 <Ainulindale> +w
May 20 13:49:13 <Ainulindale> Yes
May 20 13:49:23 <Ainulindale> sylaar1: see in /etc/frameworkd-phonegui.conf
May 20 13:49:35 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: you will be happy ;)
May 20 13:49:39 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr * rabb32732c1f0 10/libframeworkd-phonegui-efl/data/contacts.edc: libframeworkd-phonegui-efl: place "Yes" button on the left and "No" button on the right when deleting contact
May 20 13:50:10 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: that would be a completely new experience to me ;-)
May 20 13:50:13 <spaetz> so why is it we work on phonegui-efl and not phonegui-efl2?
May 20 13:50:21 <spaetz> and why do we use 1 and not 2?
May 20 13:50:27 <sylaar1> Ainulindale: how can I read the ML without being registered to it? isn't there anything like nabble?
May 20 13:50:32 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: why do you think I'm going to be happy?
May 20 13:50:33 <Ainulindale> sylaar1: yes there is
May 20 13:50:39 <dos1> spaetz: 2 is experimental fork with opimd  support
May 20 13:50:47 <spaetz> DocScrutinizer: see commit msg of dos
May 20 13:50:53 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: look at latest commit (inspired by your mail)
May 20 13:51:07 <DocScrutinizer> AAaaaaHHH :-)))
May 20 13:51:12 <spaetz> dos1: but aren't we going to us it/switch to it?
May 20 13:51:26 <dos1> spaetz: i think no for first release
May 20 13:51:49 <sylaar1> Ainulindale: where? (I know only about this way -> http://lists.shr-project.org/mailman/listinfo/shr-user)
May 20 13:51:50 <spaetz> and if not what sense does that fork make? If we are going to eventually use it, we should focus on that for our improvements IMHO
May 20 13:51:57 <dos1> mrmoku: you should sync efl2 with all efl1 changes ;x
May 20 13:51:58 <spaetz> or all the goodness is going to be lost
May 20 13:52:06 <Ainulindale> sylaar1: well on nabble :-)
May 20 13:52:31 <Ainulindale> spaetz: we will ultimately, but one can commit into both I think
May 20 13:52:32 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #412 (Vagalume crashes on Help/About) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/412#comment:4> || Ticket #468 (Phonelog crashes every time I try to open it (shr/testing)) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/468#comment:1>
May 20 13:52:44 <Ainulindale> spaetz: as for the time being lfp-efl2 is highly untested :-/
May 20 13:52:48 <Ainulindale> (and not release material)
May 20 13:52:52 <morphis> dos1: rev 40756
May 20 13:52:53 <Ainulindale> Or so I think
May 20 13:54:26 <dos1> France sucks
May 20 13:54:31 <dos1> morphis: thanks :)
May 20 13:55:23 <morphis> dos1: I hope everything works
May 20 13:55:34 <morphis> dos1: write me a short mail if something doesn't work
May 20 13:55:42 <dos1> ok
May 20 13:55:45 <morphis> dos1: genlist support will follow next
May 20 14:00:18 <dos1> hehe
May 20 14:00:21 <dos1> -SRCREV_pn-python-elementary = "40567"
May 20 14:00:21 <dos1> +SRCREV_pn-python-elementary = "40756"
May 20 14:00:24 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-overlay * r0cd7c3432026 10/openembedded/conf/distro/include/shr-autorev-unstable.inc: shr-autorev-unstable: bump python-elementary
May 20 14:00:28 <dos1> 567 -> 756
May 20 14:01:13 <morphis> dos1: was planed :)
May 20 14:01:15 <TAsn> dos1, don't fool around in the git conf files!
May 20 14:01:35 <dos1> TAsn: ?
May 20 14:02:26 <TAsn> doing silly stuff like mixing the numbers
May 20 14:02:32 <TAsn> (j/k...)
May 20 14:03:37 <spaetz> hehe
May 20 14:03:45 <spaetz> bit shuffling
May 20 14:07:10 <Ainulindale> mrmoku ?
May 20 14:07:11 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #468 (Phonelog crashes every time I try to open it (shr/testing)) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/468#comment:2>
May 20 14:08:41 <spaetz> mrmoku: I have the same issue as leontie in http://n2.nabble.com/ERROR%3A-SRCREV-was-used-yet-no-valid-SCM-was-found-in-SRC_URI-td2693717.html#a2693717
May 20 14:08:55 <spaetz> when trying to use LOCAL as SRCREV
May 20 14:09:13 <spaetz> his solution was to modify a .bb file. I hope that won't be necessary.
May 20 14:09:31 <Ainulindale> spaetz: no, local-build is there for that
May 20 14:09:43 <spaetz> Ainulindale: that is what I am using
May 20 14:09:58 <spaetz> and what Leontie was also using. But we still get the error
May 20 14:10:03 <sylaar1> Ainulindale: I setted my prefix and code in the conf file you there is no name...
May 20 14:10:05 <Ainulindale> by the way don't you have mails to answer to spaetz?
May 20 14:10:07 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, was away picking up my son
May 20 14:10:19 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: no problem :-)
May 20 14:11:17 <spaetz> no mails to answer. If you refer to the dbus API discussion I dont feel qualified to chime in. I won't comment on stuff I don't have an opinion about :)
May 20 14:12:04 <dos1> mrmoku: there is still "Number" when answering to some message (sms recipients list)
May 20 14:12:51 <Ainulindale> spaetz: well unfortunately this is your duty as core member to answer :-)
May 20 14:13:39 <TAsn> dos1, noticed that as well.
May 20 14:13:45 <mrmoku> hmm
May 20 14:15:03 <spaetz> actually, my opinion is a very unspectactular "it depends". If subsystems use dbus, the API should be pushed. If external apps make use of it, it should be pushed. If only within-app libraries are called, I don't see a pressing need for full dbus API specs... THis is all I have to say
May 20 14:15:05 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #468 (Phonelog crashes every time I try to open it (shr/testing)) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/468#comment:3>
May 20 14:15:31 <Ainulindale> spaetz: well the purpose was to be dbus accessible on the system level
May 20 14:15:37 <Ainulindale> so I guess you know what this means
May 20 14:15:45 <Ainulindale> intra/extra communication, what ever
May 20 14:18:37 <spaetz> mrmoku: sorry to bother again. Do you have any opinion on why http://n2.nabble.com/ERROR%3A-SRCREV-was-used-yet-no-valid-SCM-was-found-in-SRC_URI-td2693717.html#a2693717 might occur
May 20 14:18:45 <spaetz> when using local-builds.conf?
May 20 14:18:47 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr * rcee7cf59a9d8 10/libframeworkd-phonegui-efl/data/dialog.edc: libframeworkd-phonegui-efl: place "Yes" button on the left and "No" button on the right in dialogs
May 20 14:19:09 <spaetz> dos1: want my red/green phone receiver .pngs?
May 20 14:19:10 <spaetz> :)
May 20 14:19:31 <TAsn> dos1, actually, that's not a good fix
May 20 14:19:48 <TAsn> the correct fix would be removing the stupid dialogs
May 20 14:19:55 <TAsn> btw Ainulindale I will discuss it in list
May 20 14:19:57 <spaetz> for example for call-incoming-view.c ?
May 20 14:20:00 <dos1> TAsn: no!
May 20 14:20:15 <Ainulindale> TAsn: discuss what?
May 20 14:20:18 <TAsn> nvm, was about to say something stupid
May 20 14:20:18 <TAsn> ;]
May 20 14:20:19 <dos1> i remember when there was no dialogs "do you really..."
May 20 14:20:32 <TAsn> dos1, usually, when I click delete, I mean it.
May 20 14:20:33 <TAsn> ;]
May 20 14:20:36 <dos1> i lost many smses because of that :P
May 20 14:20:38 <mrmoku> spaetz, well it needs a SRCREV... and because the SRC_URI is no scm you have to provide it
May 20 14:20:44 <Ainulindale> well we could make it user configurable guys
May 20 14:20:44 <TAsn> dos1, bah.
May 20 14:20:45 <TAsn> sucks.
May 20 14:20:47 <Ainulindale> it's easy
May 20 14:20:50 <TAsn> Ainulindale, ++
May 20 14:20:58 <Ainulindale> go on with that and ask on the Ml then :-)
May 20 14:21:02 <dos1> Ainulindale: ++ :P
May 20 14:21:02 <Ainulindale> we already have a conf file
May 20 14:21:14 <Ainulindale> we may use it for other stuff :-)
May 20 14:21:19 <Ainulindale> <= the mediatore
May 20 14:21:21 <Ainulindale> -e
May 20 14:21:28 <TAsn> actually I hate having a conf file for guis, but that's reasonable enough since we already do have on.
May 20 14:21:31 <spaetz> mrmoku: SRCREV_pn-libframeworkd-phonegui-efl = "LOCAL is in local-builds.conf
May 20 14:21:32 <TAsn> *not guis
May 20 14:21:33 <TAsn> libs
May 20 14:22:00 <mrmoku> spaetz, and as speciality... for recipes using SRCPV (like the SHR ones) you have to specify that also ;)
May 20 14:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> TAsn: on a ts input I might kill any devel who's not aslimg a second time after I hit any possibly harmful button
May 20 14:22:21 <DocScrutinizer> ;-)
May 20 14:22:38 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, ok.
May 20 14:22:41 <TAsn> dos1, you win.
May 20 14:22:43 <TAsn> ;[
May 20 14:22:46 <spaetz> mrmoku: still don't know how I have to change local-builds.conf to make it work :-(. All I see is that the example in our wiki won't work
May 20 14:22:51 <Ainulindale>  /w 20
May 20 14:22:53 <Ainulindale> Woops
May 20 14:23:08 <Ainulindale> mickeyl?
May 20 14:24:10 <mrmoku> spaetz, pastebin your local-builds.inc? and you have enabled it in local.conf I guess...
May 20 14:24:39 <dos1> mrmoku: what's about your receipts stuff? can you commit it in branch?
May 20 14:25:19 <mrmoku> dos1, sure
May 20 14:25:26 <mrmoku> dos1, give me a minute
May 20 14:25:30 <dos1> ok
May 20 14:25:31 <spaetz> http://dpaste.com/45967/
May 20 14:25:43 <spaetz> and yes, I enabled require local-builds.conf
May 20 14:26:02 <spaetz> this is basically the default with my git path adapted
May 20 14:26:59 <mrmoku> spaetz, soo... where is SRCPV ?
May 20 14:27:00 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: yo?
May 20 14:27:01 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbc8f17dde918 10/fsodeviced/ (6 files in 4 dirs): fsodevice: start with BasePowerControl class in libfsodevice; add build skeleton for plugin openmoko_powercontrol
May 20 14:27:51 <spaetz> bitbake complained about some SRCREV. So if we need SRCPV too, we need to adapt the wiki.
May 20 14:27:54 * spaetz tries
May 20 14:28:04 <spaetz> SRCPV...=LOCAL should work?
May 20 14:28:14 <mrmoku> same as SRCREV, yes
May 20 14:28:23 <spaetz> ok, trying
May 20 14:30:05 <mrmoku> dos1, here you go... sms-receipt
May 20 14:31:56 <dos1> mrmoku: where it fails?
May 20 14:32:18 <mrmoku> dos1, it segfaults somewhere in the dbus-glib marshall code...
May 20 14:32:38 <mrmoku> dos1, maybe I have to put some lfg stuff to... wait
May 20 14:32:46 <dos1> mrmoku: on which function in -pg-efl code?
May 20 14:33:14 <mrmoku> dos1, yeah... give me another minute
May 20 14:33:42 <mrmoku> dos1, it segfaults on the message sending function
May 20 14:33:56 <dos1> mrmoku: ok :)
May 20 14:33:57 <mrmoku> whenever I put something in the properties...
May 20 14:35:42 <schannall1> root@om-gta02: ophonekitd 
May 20 14:35:42 <schannall1> ** ERROR **: Key file contains line 'libframeworkd-phonegui-efl.so.0' which is not a key-value pair, group, or comment
May 20 14:35:42 <schannall1> aborting...
May 20 14:35:42 <schannall1> Aborted
May 20 14:37:44 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * r680276e4cdda 10/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
May 20 14:37:44 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: add handler for incoming message receipt
May 20 14:37:44 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de>
May 20 14:37:54 <mrmoku> dos1, ok
May 20 14:38:47 <dos1> schannall1: opkg update; opkg upgrade
May 20 14:39:46 <schannall1> dosi: its already upgradet to the newest version (im using shr unstable btw)
May 20 14:40:11 <dos1> schannall1: no, you don't have libframeworkd-phonegui0 upgraded...
May 20 14:40:13 <schannall1> exit
May 20 14:40:23 <schannall1> argh
May 20 14:41:08 <schannall1> no its latest version - ill reinstall it
May 20 14:41:28 <dos1> schannall1: so then you have borked /etc/frameworkd-phonegui.conf
May 20 14:43:54 <spaetz> mrmoku: looks good. It seems to work with local-builds.conf now. Thanks
May 20 14:44:17 <schannall1> dosi: reinstalling helped, thank you!
May 20 14:46:53 <mickeyl> how can i show the call stack w/ glib?
May 20 14:47:05 <mickeyl> (yes, without gdb)
May 20 14:47:43 <mrmoku> spaetz, of course it does ;)
May 20 14:48:22 <ptitjes|phone> mickeyl: for debugging purposes ?
May 20 14:48:43 <mickeyl> yeah
May 20 14:48:51 <mickeyl> like, overwriting SIGSEGV handler
May 20 14:48:55 <spaetz> pff
May 20 14:48:57 <mickeyl> and then printing out the call stack
May 20 14:49:03 <mickeyl> which some apps do
May 20 14:49:21 <ptitjes|phone> mickeyl: I have a plan to integrate calls to that in my Logger:
May 20 14:49:22 <ptitjes|phone> http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/glibc/libc_665.html
May 20 14:49:43 <mickeyl> ah, right
May 20 14:49:46 <ptitjes|phone> :)
May 20 14:49:50 <mickeyl> i thought there were something like that in glib as well
May 20 14:49:52 <Ainulindale> Woooh I'm late for my lasagnas
May 20 14:49:55 <mickeyl> heh
May 20 14:49:56 <mickeyl> ~bon appetit
May 20 14:50:00 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: nah I have to cook
May 20 14:50:03 <Ainulindale> Else I'll get spanked
May 20 14:50:07 <mickeyl> righto
May 20 14:59:52 <DocScrutinizer> ~spank Ainulindale 
May 20 15:00:15 <DocScrutinizer> *sigh*, missing apt_
May 20 15:00:29 <DocScrutinizer> !spank Ainulindale 
May 20 15:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: seems you get away with it... ;-D
May 20 15:02:13 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: don't incinerate your lasagne while waiting for shower heating up ;-)
May 20 15:05:01 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rd022a7af5d23 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/interfaces.vala: fsoframework: interfaces: add PowerControl object path
May 20 15:05:03 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r0c13810ee213 10/fsodeviced/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fsodevice: openmoko_powercontrol: Openmoko.BluetoothPowerControl working.
May 20 15:07:57 <alphaone> Azog: ping
May 20 15:08:36 <alphaone> Azog: Is it okay if I just send you one of my replacement devices? I want to take a closer look at the GSM failure, but not enough time atm.
May 20 15:08:51 <alphaone> Azog: So I'll just send you a different one and keep yours
May 20 15:30:02 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #468 (Phonelog crashes every time I try to open it (shr/testing)) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/468#comment:4>
May 20 15:31:55 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbbda56b17fe4 10/fsodeviced/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fsodevice: openmoko_powercontrol: WiFiPowerControl done.
May 20 15:33:51 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: Sorry, it took me longer than it should have, here's my valac: http://rafb.net/p/qV6vuQ52.html
May 20 15:39:52 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rf516ab22b95d 10/fsodeviced/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fsodevice: add plugin thinkpad_powercontrol
May 20 15:43:12 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, already got the one from ptitjes|phone :)
May 20 15:43:19 <mrmoku> does not help though :(
May 20 15:44:04 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, and yours looks exactly like the one from ptitjes
May 20 15:44:54 <eolson> on shr-unstable with GTA01, both contacts and dialer crash after resuming from suspend.  The only error I see is one in ophonekitd.log, any ideas?
May 20 15:44:54 <eolson> Unknown internal dbus error: Method "GetPowerStatus" with signature "" on interface "org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerSupply" doesn't exist
May 20 15:45:56 <mrmoku> eolson, and ophonekitd is gone after that I guess...
May 20 15:46:03 <Azog> alphaone: pong
May 20 15:46:28 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-overlay * rc480b5d66e52 10/openembedded/recipes/shr/frameworkd-config-shr_git.bb: frameworkd-config-shr: create opim folder and provice cell.db and la.db
May 20 15:46:30 <eolson> was just checking --- looks like ophonekitd is still running, but frameworkd is not.
May 20 15:46:40 <Azog> alphaone: if it's ok for you that would be great, having a working phone again
May 20 15:46:48 <dos1> eolson: opkg update; opkg upgrade...
May 20 15:47:02 <Azog> alphaone: is it possible to use the "old" case?
May 20 15:47:58 <dos1> mrmoku: can you rebuild frameworkd-config-shr? :D
May 20 15:48:22 <dos1> mrmoku: and libframeworkd-phonegui-efl, if it isn't rebuilded
May 20 15:48:42 <mrmoku> dos1, to make DocScrutinizer happy?
May 20 15:48:53 <eolson> dos1, ok thanks, doing that now (I thought I just did that earlier this morning :) ).  will report if I get any further problems.
May 20 15:49:38 <alphaone> Azog: no problem
May 20 15:49:50 <alphaone> Except that S/N and IMEI wont match
May 20 15:50:02 <Azog> alphaone: the display is unfortunately fixed, right?
May 20 15:50:15 <alphaone> Azog: Yes
May 20 15:50:17 <alphaone> Why?
May 20 15:50:37 <Azog> there is also an invisible shield on it
May 20 15:51:03 <alphaone> ah, I see
May 20 15:51:20 <alphaone> is it possible to peel that off without destroying?
May 20 15:51:43 <Azog> maybe, but don't use heat, that could go wrong
May 20 15:52:34 <Azog> i know someone who peeled it of and put in on again after a few weeks
May 20 15:55:44 <alphaone> I'll switch the wifi cards as well so you keep your old
May 20 15:56:49 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: then you can simply remove it and copy bootstrap valac over it and then (without any additional steps) cd to vapigen and issue "make" there. And then in the root directory. Something like that allowed me to build vala-native even without upgrading libtool, that's for sure.
May 20 15:58:30 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, will try when the current build finished
May 20 15:59:40 <Ainulindale> Damn spaetz 
May 20 15:59:48 <Ainulindale> You had to use another poll than the one I used did you? :-p
May 20 16:00:08 <Ainulindale> It's buggy though it's a multiple choice
May 20 16:00:31 <Ainulindale> (or maybe that's because it's on purpose?)
May 20 16:01:19 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5c551b7b48b9 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/interfaces.vala: fsoframework: interfaces.vala: add Audio
May 20 16:01:20 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r0a67b9bec7f6 10/fsodeviced/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fsodevice: add skeleton for alsa_audio plugin
May 20 16:03:00 <spaetz> Ainulindale: never saw that papillon poll thingie before, but I love doodle. It's the best to get a bunch of people to agree on a time/day
May 20 16:03:07 <Ainulindale> Yep :-)
May 20 16:03:11 <Ainulindale> Nevermind I don't care
May 20 16:03:16 <Ainulindale> As long as there's a poll :-)
May 20 16:03:18 <mrmoku> spaetz, btw... there is missing a button ;)
May 20 16:03:24 <Ainulindale> spaetz: but keep doing that, that's the way to go
May 20 16:03:32 <Ainulindale> (IMHO)
May 20 16:03:37 <Ainulindale> Although one could easily fake doodle
May 20 16:03:39 <dos1> mrmoku: can you biuld also python-elementary?
May 20 16:04:13 <spaetz> interesting, it's really multiple-choice. I wonder if I could have made it radio-buttons
May 20 16:04:24 <mrmoku> dos1, we would have to set a different EFL_SRCREV for that...
May 20 16:04:51 <mrmoku> spaetz, anyway... I'm missing the 'Reject silently' button :P
May 20 16:05:06 <dos1> mrmoku: no
May 20 16:05:18 <mrmoku> dos1, why?
May 20 16:05:24 <dos1> mrmoku: python-elementary isn't related with EFL_SRCREV
May 20 16:05:32 <mrmoku> dos1, huh?
May 20 16:05:49 <dos1> mrmoku: (i think)
May 20 16:05:57 <alphaone> Azog: Hmm, the result doesn't look too pretty... :-/
May 20 16:06:03 <dos1> mrmoku: but i bumped python-elementary version
May 20 16:06:13 <dos1> we have the same situation some time ago
May 20 16:06:16 <dos1> and it was working
May 20 16:06:54 <spaetz> mrmoku: :-) I'm not able to do taht. Also I don't have commit access to shr.git
May 20 16:07:05 <spaetz> so I'll need that before I can push any changes :)
May 20 16:07:11 <mirko-paroli> dos1: why do you wanna bump py-elm?
May 20 16:07:34 <nytowl> dos1, we made a paroli-elementary package that has more of the python bindings in it
May 20 16:07:46 <mrmoku> dos1, ok then
May 20 16:08:27 <dos1> nytowl: why? they are upstream now
May 20 16:08:37 <spaetz> anyway gone. family time. can I get shr.git access?
May 20 16:08:49 <dos1> nytowl: you should talk with morphis and send him patches instead making new package i think
May 20 16:09:05 <nytowl> dos1, I don't want to change efl_srvrev right now
May 20 16:09:07 <mrmoku> spaetz, yeah, will give you
May 20 16:09:28 <dos1> nytowl: bumping python-elementary only is also possible
May 20 16:10:08 <nytowl> dos1, I thought of that too, and decided the safest for now was just add the bindings we need
May 20 16:10:22 <mrmoku> spaetz, no excuses anymore ;)
May 20 16:13:06 <eolson> mickey, Are there any current benefits people would get by running fso thinkpads? (other than helping debug fso)
May 20 16:13:55 <mickeyl> some distros don't know about dimming
May 20 16:14:00 <mickeyl> so this is kind of cool
May 20 16:14:38 <mickeyl> if you have a gprs modem built-in, you can use it for that
May 20 16:14:45 <mickeyl> i use it for bluetooth on/off
May 20 16:14:55 <Azog> alphaone: which result?
May 20 16:15:01 <mickeyl> could also use the GPS stuff, if you have a bluetooth gps dongle
May 20 16:15:36 <alphaone> Azog: The invisible shield..
May 20 16:16:28 <Azog> alphaone: but you managed to peel it off?
May 20 16:16:49 <eolson> mickeyl, cool, although I have most of those functions with ubuntu.   I do have a neo connected most of the time, maybe I could tie the gprs and gps to it.
May 20 16:16:56 <alphaone> yes, it's also on the other display
May 20 16:17:40 <Azog> alphaone: there's some special spray to put it on, maybe i can make that better with it
May 20 16:17:52 <alphaone> ah, okay
May 20 16:19:44 <eolson> by "most functions", I mean typical laptop functions like bluetooth and dimming seem to work.  Anyway, I might install it and see how it fits in.
May 20 16:19:54 <Azog> if it's possible just leave it "not so pretty" on the display
May 20 16:21:06 <mrmoku> dos1, ok, built
May 20 16:21:12 * mrmoku off for dinner... bbl
May 20 16:21:14 <Azog> alphaone: all that is really nice from you
May 20 16:21:36 <alphaone> Azog: no problem
May 20 16:21:43 <alphaone> Will leave it like that
May 20 16:22:17 <Azog> thanks
May 20 16:25:50 <dos1> mrmoku|away: have you updated overlay before building python-elementary? ;x
May 20 16:26:45 <dos1> mrmoku|away: and frameworkd-config-shr... that change was about recipe :P so nothing changed with your rebuild...
May 20 16:29:51 <mickeyl> DocScrutinizer: did you ever have a chance to come up with the numbers of controls that are really necessary to switch from e.g. gsmhandset to stereoout? the delay in alsactl is linear to the numbers of controls, if we have less controls to switch when transitioning from one scenario to another we could save some time
May 20 16:35:03 <alphaone> Even managed to switch the labels
May 20 16:41:35 <khiraly1> where can I find the recipe for frameworkd?
May 20 16:41:51 <khiraly1> Im looking for this file: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/framework/__version__.py
May 20 16:42:05 <khiraly1> so by what and where is it created
May 20 16:44:33 <mickeyl> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=openembedded.git;a=blob;f=recipes/freesmartphone/frameworkd_git.bb;h=d658fd092a77b1ed2efe0ee37c157da7c4804133;hb=refs/heads/mickey
May 20 16:44:38 <mickeyl>   20 do_configure_append() {
May 20 16:44:38 <mickeyl>   21         echo "version=\"${PV}\"" >framework/__version__.py
May 20 16:44:38 <mickeyl>   22 }
May 20 16:44:49 <khiraly1> thank you!
May 20 16:45:54 <khiraly1> mickeyl: and how it gets the ${SRCREV} variable?
May 20 16:46:14 <mickeyl> this is computed by OE
May 20 16:46:22 <mickeyl> either from SRCREV_pn-frameworkd in sane-srcrevs.inc
May 20 16:46:39 <mickeyl> or -- if you use fso-autorev.inc -- automatically by checking the latest git rev
May 20 16:48:14 <khiraly1> mickeyl: python question: from .__version__ import version
May 20 16:48:21 <khiraly1> ^^ what is the dot in there?
May 20 16:48:41 <mickeyl> force to look in the current package
May 20 16:48:42 <khiraly1> maybe stupid question, but it is not the same as from __version__ import version
May 20 16:48:56 <mickeyl> this depends on sys.path
May 20 16:48:58 <khiraly1> mickeyl: but it looks always in the current dir first, no?
May 20 16:49:01 <mickeyl> no
May 20 16:49:04 <mickeyl> i think no longer
May 20 16:49:14 <mickeyl> import rules have changed some versions ago
May 20 16:49:21 <mickeyl> with the addition of dotted notation
May 20 16:49:24 <khiraly1> ok, so then you force it to look in the current dir and *nowhere* else
May 20 16:49:31 <mickeyl> correct
May 20 16:49:37 <khiraly1> ok. thank you
May 20 16:57:18 <Ainulindale> well, lasagnas preparation almost ready
May 20 16:57:22 <Ainulindale> yummy
May 20 16:58:17 * MarcOChapeau is eating beer
May 20 16:58:25 <MarcOChapeau> yummy
May 20 16:58:43 <khiraly1> mickeyl: and what are the difference between SRCREV and SRCPV ?
May 20 16:59:43 <mickeyl> SRCPV is an experimental addition that counts the number of commits to git to mangle the sourcerev in a way that leads to increasing file names
May 20 16:59:54 <mickeyl> adding a revision count prefix
May 20 17:00:33 <mickeyl> OT: anyone know a lightweight library to play wav through alsa?
May 20 17:00:54 <khiraly1> mickeyl: in python?
May 20 17:00:57 <mickeyl> no, C
May 20 17:00:58 <khiraly1> or simple C program
May 20 17:01:45 <mickeyl> I'd turn aplay.c into a library, but that is GPL :/
May 20 17:03:09 <mickeyl> hmm, libcanberra without the fancy XDG stuff could work
May 20 17:03:28 <khiraly1> mickeyl: sor [revision_count]+[git last commit sha]
May 20 17:03:33 <khiraly1> s/sor/so/
May 20 17:03:34 <bzzbot> khiraly1 meant: mickeyl: so [revision_count]+[git last commit sha]
May 20 17:03:34 <mickeyl> yes
May 20 17:03:37 <mickeyl> that's the idea
May 20 17:03:48 <mickeyl> currently this only works for AUTOREV
May 20 17:03:55 <khiraly1> ok. I needed to read it twice to understand what you are talking about;)
May 20 17:03:56 <mickeyl> but not for fixed rev
May 20 17:04:30 <khiraly1> mickeyl: or write .wav player grained with assembly
May 20 17:04:31 <khiraly1> ;)
May 20 17:04:49 <mickeyl> nah, it should at least be portable on C layer
May 20 17:04:57 <mickeyl> i don't think i want to learn arm asm
May 20 17:06:13 <khiraly1> it depends how big is the latency ;)
May 20 17:06:28 <mickeyl> well
May 20 17:06:37 <mickeyl> on fast systems, gstreamer is fine
May 20 17:06:40 <mickeyl> i love gstreamer
May 20 17:06:47 <mickeyl> but on the Neo, it's too slow
May 20 17:06:57 <mickeyl> so i'm looking for an alternative for fso2
May 20 17:07:15 <alphaone> mickeyl: Use pulseaudio :-)
May 20 17:07:18 * mickeyl downloads libcanberra to play
May 20 17:07:21 <mickeyl> heh
May 20 17:07:32 <mickeyl> that'd be kind of .... backwards :D
May 20 17:08:05 <alphaone> Or make fso2 depend on faster (read nonexistent) 
May 20 17:08:08 <alphaone> hardware
May 20 17:08:50 <mickeyl> well
May 20 17:08:56 <mickeyl> it rocks on ezx
May 20 17:09:01 <mickeyl> (gstreamer)
May 20 17:09:16 <alphaone> hmm
May 20 17:09:17 <mrmoku> dos1, you did not tell me ;)
May 20 17:10:29 <khiraly1> mickeyl: http://www.morphet.org.uk/comp/wavtools.html
May 20 17:10:54 <mickeyl> GPL as well
May 20 17:10:58 <mickeyl> and no output, just reading
May 20 17:11:11 <alphaone> mickeyl: wav should be really easy
May 20 17:11:13 <mickeyl> aplay has all i need but the licence
May 20 17:11:37 <alphaone> mickeyl: On some formats just cat'ing the wav to /dev/{dsp,snd,...} works
May 20 17:11:57 <mickeyl> yeah, but that'd be really barebone
May 20 17:12:07 <alphaone> probably need to read the header format first and ioctl to use the right format
May 20 17:12:22 <alphaone> aplay does more?
May 20 17:12:49 <khiraly1> http://mpg123.org/ <-- it looks like an optimised program
May 20 17:13:12 <mickeyl> well, aplay has 60K lines
May 20 17:13:29 <mickeyl> err, no
May 20 17:13:32 <mickeyl> 60K C source
May 20 17:13:47 <mickeyl> 2565 lines
May 20 17:13:51 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-makefile * r19ef085fe88f 10/Makefile: set DISTRO to shr for unstable
May 20 17:14:02 <khiraly1> 2565 line for wav playback?
May 20 17:14:07 <mickeyl> yes
May 20 17:14:11 <mickeyl> it can record as well though
May 20 17:14:12 <alphaone> mickeyl: Afraid of looking at it?
May 20 17:14:23 <mickeyl> yeah
May 20 17:14:25 <mickeyl> would taint me
May 20 17:14:35 <alphaone> mickeyl: It can also interact with alsa more than you'd need to
May 20 17:14:35 <mickeyl> i need something lgpl
May 20 17:15:07 <mickeyl> i'm hesitating to use something from lennart again though
May 20 17:15:13 <mickeyl> given the abysmal failure pulseaudio was 
May 20 17:15:16 <mickeyl> (on the neo)
May 20 17:15:25 <khiraly1> http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/hkovaska/wavdumper/ <-- maybe this is handy too (python wav header library)
May 20 17:15:45 <mickeyl> hmm
May 20 17:17:59 <khiraly1> mickeyl: http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/
May 20 17:18:12 <mickeyl> yes, that's _the_ reader/writer these days
May 20 17:18:26 <mickeyl> needs to be combined with something that actually plays sound though
May 20 17:18:55 <khiraly1> mickeyl: why not convert everything to the dumpest .wav fileformat and feed the audiocard with it?
May 20 17:19:00 <alphaone> mickeyl: If you can write to pcm that will suffice
May 20 17:21:12 <alphaone> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/group___p_c_m.html#gf13067c0ebde29118ca05af76e5b17a9
May 20 17:23:49 <mrmoku> dos1, and again you made me build untested stuff ;)
May 20 17:23:51 <mrmoku> Hunk #1 FAILED at 23.
May 20 17:23:52 <mrmoku> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file elementary/elementary.c_elementary_scroller.pxi
May 20 17:24:28 <dos1> mrmoku: patches?
May 20 17:24:29 <dos1> WTF?
May 20 17:24:53 <DocScrutinizer> mickeyl: (number of controls) I'll come up with some draft this night or tomorrow the latest
May 20 17:24:57 <dos1> mrmoku: i can't test as my buildhost isn't working - evas-native is failing
May 20 17:25:25 <mrmoku> :)
May 20 17:27:37 <mrmoku> dos1, so... what do we do now? looks like there are obsolete patches in OE :(
May 20 17:28:01 <dos1> mrmoku: that's why i don't like fso/milestone5.5 now :P
May 20 17:28:14 <dos1> they are stabilizing branch for Om2009
May 20 17:28:27 <dos1> and it makes problems for us
May 20 17:29:05 <khiraly1> shr doesn't need stabilizing?;)
May 20 17:29:32 <mrmoku> khiraly1, not for unstable :P
May 20 17:29:43 <khiraly1> doh!
May 20 17:32:27 <mwester> re
May 20 17:40:16 <dos1> mrmoku: done
May 20 17:40:22 <CIA-75> SHR: 03dos 07shr-overlay * r33ce875af095 10/patches/e17/0002-remove-python-elementary-patch.patch: patches: make python-elementary building
May 20 17:48:26 <mrmoku> dos1, ok
May 20 17:48:40 <dos1> mrmoku: built?
May 20 17:48:55 <mrmoku> dos1, building
May 20 17:49:04 <dos1> ok
May 20 17:49:50 * dos1 is thinking about https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2085 implementation in opimd
May 20 17:52:35 <Heinervdm> dos1: looks not that complicated, because of contact merge you only have to resolve the name
May 20 17:53:07 <dos1> Heinervdm: surname handling is very easy
May 20 17:53:13 <dos1> Heinervdm: but group can be done in 2 ways
May 20 17:53:27 <dos1> hmm, now we don't have fields specified
May 20 17:53:43 <dos1> (some standard... but we should do it ASAP ;x)
May 20 17:53:58 <dos1> so now i'll implement it without groups
May 20 17:54:11 <Heinervdm> what's so wrong with the fields in the docs?
May 20 17:54:39 <dos1> Heinervdm: outdated in some places, in others needs reviewing
May 20 17:54:50 <dos1> {'Name':'Sebastian', 'Surname':'Krzyszkowiak', 'Phone':'tel:+48666666666'}
May 20 17:54:53 <dos1> then on sim:
May 20 17:55:51 <dos1> Name: Krzy;Sebastian/0 (can name be longer than 16 chars?), Phone: +48666666666
May 20 17:56:15 <DocScrutinizer> mickeyl: alphaone: khiraly1: DocScrutinizer suggests to use aplay whenever possible
May 20 17:56:38 <Heinervdm> dos1: sim should be readonly :D
May 20 17:56:52 <dos1> Heinervdm: no no no
May 20 17:56:54 <Heinervdm> :)
May 20 17:57:49 <dos1> Heinervdm: some people use SIM to store most important contacts, then if you have to replace SIMs (some emergency situation when battery goes flat in FR for example) you have important contacts available
May 20 17:57:55 <dos1> for instance ;)
May 20 17:58:09 * mwester does that.
May 20 17:58:19 * DocScrutinizer does that
May 20 17:59:07 <dos1> Heinervdm: do you see? that's why i'm improving SIM backend ;)
May 20 17:59:38 <Heinervdm> dos1: yes, for this SIM is the best backend
May 20 18:00:38 <dos1> Heinervdm: and i think we can just implement that in SIM backend and forgot about it, as it's working :)
May 20 18:00:45 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: anyway please wrap your head around what purpose for Nokia phones have a "sim/ponestorage" selct option
May 20 18:01:08 <khiraly1> most of my contacts get truncated if I save it on sim
May 20 18:01:12 <DocScrutinizer> plus a copy2sim and a copy2phone function
May 20 18:01:58 <khiraly1> i like to write some text after the name, because if I dont do it I forgot who the hell are this guy
May 20 18:02:03 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: i used that option in my Nokia 3410 when i bought new phone ;)
May 20 18:02:15 <khiraly1> and if I save it on sim, it gets truncated
May 20 18:02:18 <dos1> khiraly1: SIM - only 16 chars
May 20 18:02:22 <mwester> Yes, my contacts get "munged" as well when I save to the sim.  So I have two entries for important numbers -- the "sim" version which is written to sim, and the "normal" version with longer/more fields and information.
May 20 18:02:33 <DocScrutinizer> so you are aware of the basic usage principles ;-)
May 20 18:02:42 <mwester> (on my Treo, I mean -- but I expect the same to be true for the Om devices).
May 20 18:02:54 <dos1> khiraly1: you can merge contacts from SIM and some other backend
May 20 18:03:09 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: exactly
May 20 18:03:45 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: anyway usually that's not exactly what you want
May 20 18:04:02 <DocScrutinizer> (merge contacts)
May 20 18:04:10 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: merging is done automatically when loading contacts
May 20 18:04:13 <DocScrutinizer> (automatically)
May 20 18:04:22 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
May 20 18:04:25 <khiraly1> dos1: I would like to merge to my gmail account. There are even python library for connection
May 20 18:04:27 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: it's only about presenting contacts for user
May 20 18:04:58 <khiraly1> that way I would always have a backup from my contacts
May 20 18:05:02 <khiraly1> if the phone gets stolen
May 20 18:05:04 <DocScrutinizer> yup, and mwester and me get the augmented contact merged with the sim-based crippled one
May 20 18:05:24 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: so some contact can be stored on SIM and on different backend
May 20 18:05:37 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: and user don't see duplicates in contact list
May 20 18:05:38 <dos1> more
May 20 18:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> DocScrutinizer: that's exactly what we do not want to get
May 20 18:06:08 <DocScrutinizer> err
May 20 18:06:17 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: ^
May 20 18:06:22 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: why?
May 20 18:06:50 <DocScrutinizer> if you actually do not get duplicates, all is fine for me
May 20 18:07:22 <mwester> I *want* to see duplicates -- because I want to be the one to choose what information gets stored on the SIM and what is not; especially when I abbreviate the field names.  I don't want a merge alorigthm hacking up my work.
May 20 18:08:10 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: but due to the restrictions of sim I doubt it will work flawlessly to avoid dups
May 20 18:08:23 <dos1> mwester: if you have different names, then merging won't proceed
May 20 18:08:34 <mwester> That's acceptable.
May 20 18:08:50 <dos1> mwester: and on SIM you have only Name and Phone fields
May 20 18:09:06 <dos1> mwester: or if you want also Surname and few groups for phones, but optionally
May 20 18:09:08 <DocScrutinizer> just want to filter to hide sim all together then
May 20 18:09:24 <mwester> Yep.  As long as the merge is only keyed on the name, that's fine (because the phone number, of course, will be the same).
May 20 18:10:38 <dos1> mwester: you have contact data in one backend, and contact data in second backend
May 20 18:12:29 <dos1> mwester: and if *every* field, which is present on *both* backends, is equall in both backends, then contact merges
May 20 18:12:33 <DocScrutinizer> I thought we agreed on "compare for merge is done by comparing *all* fields of both contacts, and a match occurs if and only if the string in on contact's field is identical to other contact OR one of the fields is empty (empty=wildcard) - for *all* fields"
May 20 18:12:34 <dos1> mwester: is that good? :)
May 20 18:12:48 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
May 20 18:13:32 <DocScrutinizer> boolen transform of expression
May 20 18:13:48 <DocScrutinizer> both expressions are equivalent
May 20 18:14:01 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: hehe :)
May 20 18:14:38 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #468 (Phonelog crashes every time I try to open it (shr/testing)) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/468#comment:5>
May 20 18:14:44 <dos1> and if it doesn't work like that, then that's bug :P
May 20 18:16:21 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: remember the sony-ericson extension though!
May 20 18:17:02 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: i want to make it configurable ;)
May 20 18:17:19 <DocScrutinizer> which introduces name truncation and thus makes this contacts-compare a little more tricky to get it right
May 20 18:18:37 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: then comparing surnames should look at beginings
May 20 18:18:52 <dos1> if first.startswith(second) or second.startwith(first):
May 20 18:19:00 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: basically, yes
May 20 18:19:28 <mrmoku> dos1, now
May 20 18:20:52 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: but only if sim-contact is actually using the SE-extension
May 20 18:21:46 <DocScrutinizer> then you need to convert (normalize ;-> ) the sim-contact
May 20 18:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> then see if sim-surname, firstname, whatever, is a leading substring of the other contact, rather than a exact match
May 20 18:24:31 <dos1> mrmoku: thanks
May 20 18:24:33 <DocScrutinizer> (configurable) I like very much the concept of piping everything thru an external executable (usualy a script) to do any normalization or other mangeling
May 20 18:25:24 <DocScrutinizer> see e.g the way kmail is using spamassassin
May 20 18:26:08 * dos1 is implementing now generic support of comparing posibbly truncated fields
May 20 18:26:23 <DocScrutinizer> we should do telnumber normalizing, sim-SE-conversion etc in a similar way
May 20 18:26:53 <dos1> (for sim names when len=16 and for sim surnames if SE-conversion is activated and len of whole entry = 16)
May 20 18:27:22 <dos1> but providing infos in brackets is backend job
May 20 18:28:33 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: I'd like to see this "16" to become a user-config *at very least*
May 20 18:28:51 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: why user config?
May 20 18:28:55 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: it's backend job
May 20 18:29:00 <dos1> SIM can store only 16 chars
May 20 18:29:18 <dos1> if we would use some other backend, which can store only 10 chars
May 20 18:29:32 <DocScrutinizer> mine can store only 14. So what you gonna do now ?  ;-P
May 20 18:29:39 <dos1> hmmm
May 20 18:29:40 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, ask the sim
May 20 18:29:42 <TAsn> for the limitations
May 20 18:29:48 <dos1> maybe i'm wrong about 16
May 20 18:29:53 <DocScrutinizer> TAsn: exactly
May 20 18:29:53 * dos1 checks
May 20 18:29:57 <TAsn> it's available from dbus
May 20 18:29:59 <TAsn> with the framework
May 20 18:30:13 <dos1> TAsn: which method?
May 20 18:30:17 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: listen to TAsn !
May 20 18:30:25 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
May 20 18:30:29 <TAsn> dos1, I don't remember
May 20 18:30:33 <TAsn> though look in shr-settings
May 20 18:30:35 <TAsn> you get that
May 20 18:30:57 <dos1> mine can store 14 too
May 20 18:31:04 <dos1> :D
May 20 18:31:05 <TAsn> here 14 name length
May 20 18:31:09 <TAsn> 44 number length;]
May 20 18:31:22 <dos1> so other sims can have other values?
May 20 18:31:28 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 20 18:31:29 <TAsn> probably
May 20 18:31:33 <dos1> ok
May 20 18:31:38 <TAsn> otherwise you wouldn't be able to probe for YOUR size ;]
May 20 18:31:51 <dos1> that's not hard to ask ogsmd for that :P
May 20 18:32:24 <DocScrutinizer> well, not that you know it, it's simple :P
May 20 18:32:45 <DocScrutinizer> s/not /now /
May 20 18:32:45 <bzzbot> DocScrutinizer meant: well, now that you know it, it's simple :P
May 20 18:32:54 <dos1> number_length = 44, name_length = 14, max_index = 200 on mine SIM
May 20 18:33:12 <dos1> or s/mine/my/
May 20 18:33:20 <TAsn> here 250 on sim
May 20 18:33:23 * DocScrutinizer highfives TAsn 
May 20 18:33:28 <TAsn> and I have another sim with a different value
May 20 18:33:38 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, hehe. ;)
May 20 18:33:42 <dos1> i have another sim with 250 too i think
May 20 18:33:57 <TAsn> maybe you should check for that as well
May 20 18:34:06 <TAsn> and say something when reached the limit.
May 20 18:34:34 * dos1 looks if mirko-paroli implemented that (limit of entries)
May 20 18:34:39 <DocScrutinizer> duh, think it's only interesting to know how much empty places left
May 20 18:35:44 * mrmoku has name_length = 17 ;)
May 20 18:35:51 <DocScrutinizer> a strore action to a filled sim will raise error anyway
May 20 18:36:05 <mrmoku> and max_index = 255 :P
May 20 18:36:26 * DocScrutinizer doen't know his sim's namelength limit ;-D
May 20 18:37:03 * mrmoku wonders why DocScrutinizer does not start shr-settings to look :P
May 20 18:38:10 <dos1> TAsn: yep, after reaching limit it will try to store entry with id=limit+1
May 20 18:38:15 <dos1> TAsn: so it will fail anyway
May 20 18:38:16 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: I don't care. I knew what to holler to point to flaws in system architecture. That's one of my core competences ;-)
May 20 18:38:31 <dos1> but there is already looking for contact book info
May 20 18:38:45 <TAsn> dos1, yes, but we want to warn the user
May 20 18:38:48 <dos1> so checking that name_length is oneliner :)
May 20 18:38:53 <dos1> TAsn: it's GUI task
May 20 18:39:16 <TAsn> oh
May 20 18:39:22 <TAsn> though you were talking about the phone
May 20 18:39:22 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: yup
May 20 18:39:32 <dos1> TAsn: i'm talking about opimd
May 20 18:39:34 <TAsn> didn't understand you were talking about opimd onl
May 20 18:39:37 <TAsn> yeah ;]
May 20 18:40:04 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: thanks for hint
May 20 18:40:10 <TAsn> mrmoku, I have "real" name length of 7 ;[
May 20 18:40:13 <DocScrutinizer> np, welcome
May 20 18:40:19 <dos1> i would implement 16 chars limit and wonder, why it doesn't work ;)
May 20 18:40:24 <TAsn> because I use utf-8 that cuts everything by 2
May 20 18:40:25 <dos1> as i have 14 on my sim :D
May 20 18:41:29 <DocScrutinizer> TAsn: I really doubt this applies to sim contacts
May 20 18:42:14 <TAsn> sure it does
May 20 18:42:28 <TAsn> how would you save a utf-8 string on a 14 byte buffer?
May 20 18:42:39 <TAsn> if not by using plain utf-8? ;]
May 20 18:42:51 <TAsn> (or more likely ucs-2)
May 20 18:43:51 <DocScrutinizer> TAsn: you really think your nokia phone does sim names that way?
May 20 18:44:07 <TAsn> how would it otherwise?
May 20 18:44:20 <DocScrutinizer> maybe, I really dunno
May 20 18:44:51 <TAsn> anyhow, I know as a fact
May 20 18:44:55 <TAsn> that I'm limited to 7 ;]
May 20 18:46:08 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: i think it's switchable between ascii and ucs-2, like in smses
May 20 18:46:15 * DocScrutinizer wonders if SE-ext offers a way to tell if the name got truncated or not
May 20 18:46:55 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, I seriously doubt that, though maybe ;]
May 20 18:47:03 <TAsn> anyhow, I'm off, gn everyone
May 20 18:47:11 <DocScrutinizer> gn
May 20 18:47:31 <DocScrutinizer> anyone a quick reference to this SE ticket?
May 20 18:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: ?
May 20 18:48:28 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2085
May 20 18:48:38 <DocScrutinizer> thnx
May 20 19:11:58 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: see https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2085. btw: looks like fun to calculate the compare length for SE-ext. Luckily we only need a simple substr-compare
May 20 19:34:24 <Gnutoo> hi, why could opkg list | grep midori return nothing
May 20 19:34:27 <Gnutoo> same for dillo
May 20 19:34:35 <Gnutoo> I've this shr version:
May 20 19:34:47 <Gnutoo> Angstrom -20090509
May 20 19:35:32 <max_posedon1> opkg update
May 20 19:36:03 <Gnutoo> I've done it yesterday I'll re-try
May 20 19:36:39 <Gnutoo> max_posedon1, same issue
May 20 19:39:50 <Gnutoo> what should I do? opkg update didn't solve the problem
May 20 19:40:19 <Gnutoo> I can't use bitbake I'm in the middle of a python upgrade...
May 20 19:55:38 <spaetz> mrmoku: true, the pkg index is missing out lots of pkgs
May 20 19:55:55 <spaetz> eg midori and othr stuff
May 20 19:56:38 <spaetz> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/armv4t/Packages used to be bigger
May 20 20:01:02 <Deubeuliou> mrmoku: you told me, in order to build vala, to first bitbake -b vala-native and then vala-bootstrap-native ?
May 20 20:01:15 <Deubeuliou> or vala and then vala-bootstrap-native ?
May 20 20:02:00 <spaetz> you need the bootstrap first
May 20 20:02:22 <spaetz> vala from git requires valac tobe compiled
May 20 20:04:02 <Deubeuliou> :S
May 20 20:08:28 <PaulFertser> Deubeuliou: still having problems building vala-native?
May 20 20:08:48 * mrmoku still has problems :P
May 20 20:09:09 <mrmoku> spaetz, yeah
May 20 20:09:15 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: you're an exception.
May 20 20:09:27 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: I managed to build it even with an old libtool, why can't you?
May 20 20:09:29 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: ;)
May 20 20:10:09 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, you meant I'm exceptional? :P
May 20 20:10:16 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: sure, man
May 20 20:10:48 <mrmoku> PaulFertser, I think the only way to really solve it is to understand ltmain.sh
May 20 20:10:57 <mrmoku> though it is ... aehm... not easy
May 20 20:11:34 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: or to ask some libtooler
May 20 20:12:56 <mrmoku> spaetz, regarding dillo2... it does not build
May 20 20:12:57 <mrmoku> configure: error: source directory already configured; run "make distclean" there first
May 20 20:13:00 <mrmoku> FATAL: oe_runconf failed
May 20 20:13:20 <mrmoku> hmm... maybe it was not clean... will try with -c clean first
May 20 20:14:28 <spaetz> mrmoku: ahh thankks, didn't know that.
May 20 20:14:55 <mrmoku> spaetz, and with the rsyncing old packages are still there... but not in the index
May 20 20:15:02 <spaetz> people report that midori is not in pkg index either
May 20 20:15:06 <spaetz> i see
May 20 20:15:17 <mrmoku> don't know how to solve it :(
May 20 20:15:20 <spaetz> mhh
May 20 20:15:44 <spaetz> i've no idea either
May 20 20:17:04 <mrmoku> no... dillo2 does not build...
May 20 20:17:33 <mrmoku> trying midori now
May 20 20:18:27 <spaetz> k, i'll  check dillo2  tomorrow
May 20 20:19:31 <spaetz> i wish the distro we inherit from had more buildable stuff
May 20 20:19:56 <spaetz> feelss like we have to do everything ourselves
May 20 20:22:19 <spaetz> btw,i'm on the n800, not drunk ;-)
May 20 20:22:25 <Deubeuliou> so, first vala-bootstrap-native, and then vala ?
May 20 20:22:53 <PaulFertser> Deubeuliou: then vala-native
May 20 20:22:56 <PaulFertser> Deubeuliou: then vala
May 20 20:23:08 <Deubeuliou> oooook
May 20 20:23:19 <PaulFertser> Deubeuliou: and if vala-native doesn't build for you with a cryptic error try changing DISTRO to shr in auto.conf
May 20 20:23:25 <PaulFertser> Man, isn't it obvious? 
May 20 20:23:25 <PaulFertser> ;)
May 20 20:24:18 <Deubeuliou> is it normal that vala-bootstrap-native needed -lselinux last time I tried ??
May 20 20:26:47 <tmzt> on redhat/fedora?
May 20 20:27:16 <Deubeuliou> Debian unstable
May 20 20:27:27 <tmzt> does that have selinux?
May 20 20:28:17 <PaulFertser> Deubeuliou: needed? I thought OE has it's own set of dependencies, mostly unrelated to the host system.
May 20 20:31:19 <Deubeuliou> PaulFertser: http://pastebin.com/d1e7b8a53
May 20 20:37:58 <PaulFertser> Deubeuliou: you need to read do_configure log and probably config.log from the work directory. Looks like vala-native's configure script founds some selinux dev files on your host and enables it.
May 20 20:54:40 <jonkristian> Package edbus-ehal wants to install file /usr/lib/libehal-ver-pre-svn-01.so.0.5.0
May 20 20:54:43 <jonkristian> can i force this?
May 20 20:54:55 <jonkristian> shr-unstable
May 20 20:58:37 <jonkristian> s/can/should
May 20 20:59:21 <dos1|neo> jonkristian: more, you must ;)
May 20 21:00:04 <jonkristian> just did
May 20 21:00:24 <jonkristian> congrats with 100% completion
May 20 21:01:53 <jonkristian> hm, it's alot slower after upgrading.
May 20 21:02:04 <jonkristian> oh, dbus, zomg
May 20 21:31:29 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #421 (SMS notification sound only on first message. Following messages without ...) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/421#comment:4>
May 20 21:33:47 <vininim> a while back erasing the offending package and upgrading worked
May 20 21:34:00 <vininim> but it just got removed from the repository
May 20 21:34:04 <vininim> *I think
May 20 21:37:30 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #421 (SMS notification sound only on first message. Following messages without ...) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/421#comment:5>
May 20 23:03:14 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rcf76ec5e2b42 10/libfsoframework/vapi/ (Makefile.am libcanberra.deps libcanberra.vapi): fsoframework: add vala bindings for libcanberra
May 20 23:03:15 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re5e962b1b258 10/libfsoframework/vapi/linux26.vapi: linux26: add linux-isms from posix.vapi; add eventfd
May 21 01:06:29 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #470 (shr settings power sliders) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/470>
May 21 01:58:56 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #325 (Incorrect EST timezone data) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/325#comment:3>
May 21 02:37:47 <josch> anybody using this kernel on gta01 with qi:
May 21 02:37:49 <josch> http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/experimental/Neo1973/
May 21 02:38:09 <josch> with uboot it works but with qi i only get a white screen
May 21 02:38:19 <josch> but can log in via ssh so the rest works
May 21 02:38:39 <josch> it seems that the display is not initialized correctly without uboot doing that
May 21 02:53:15 <mwester> josch,  check the ML archives for qi vs u-boot initialization issues for the gta02; perhaps that will give you a hint for similar places to look in the gta01-specific code.  Frankly, there are very few gta01 users, and I suspect that the number of them using qi would be about one.
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