**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 25 02:59:57 2009
May 25 05:42:27 <tobii_> good morning
May 25 07:06:29 <ptitjes> morning
May 25 07:07:38 <Blu3> 'morning
May 25 07:09:22 <Deubeuliou> hi Didier
May 25 07:09:29 <Deubeuliou> just arrived @school
May 25 07:09:42 <Deubeuliou> my phone is still borked :/
May 25 07:09:47 <ptitjes> hello Deubeuliou 
May 25 07:10:03 <Deubeuliou> neither h:1 nor shr can register to the gsm network
May 25 07:10:05 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: arf
May 25 07:10:29 <ptitjes> oh so you tried latest unstable ?
May 25 07:10:35 <Deubeuliou> I hope a bear will be able to repair that
May 25 07:10:37 <Deubeuliou> nope
May 25 07:10:41 <Deubeuliou> but it used to work
May 25 07:10:46 <ptitjes> a bear ??? :)
May 25 07:10:49 <Deubeuliou> and I didn't upgrade, in fact
May 25 07:10:59 <Deubeuliou> (a Bearstech employee)
May 25 07:11:06 <ptitjes> oh
May 25 07:11:17 <ptitjes> you should try latest anyway
May 25 07:11:48 <Deubeuliou> that's what I intended to do, yep
May 25 07:12:25 <ptitjes> did you have time to burn a DVD ?
May 25 07:12:33 <Deubeuliou> not yet
May 25 07:12:36 <ptitjes> oh man I'm so fucked off
May 25 07:12:41 <Deubeuliou> but I'll burn it this evening
May 25 07:12:43 <Deubeuliou> :D
May 25 07:12:44 <ptitjes> I'd like to sleep more
May 25 07:12:46 <ptitjes> :)
May 25 07:12:57 <ptitjes> oki
May 25 07:13:25 <Deubeuliou> you managed to lay your audio stuff at the self-storage ?
May 25 07:13:35 <ptitjes> yep no problem
May 25 07:14:03 <ptitjes> easier than to put them in :)
May 25 07:14:24 <ptitjes> (the car)
May 25 07:18:40 <ptitjes> oh I'm stupid
May 25 07:18:59 <ptitjes> I thought I was working today afternoon and tomorow
May 25 07:19:12 <ptitjes> but it tomorow afternoon and and the day after
May 25 07:19:19 <ptitjes> grrrrrr
May 25 07:21:53 <Deubeuliou> ow :/
May 25 08:12:40 <morphis> heyho
May 25 08:19:07 <jonkristian> Is there anything else I have to load except for the g_ether module in debian? I Can't get ssh access, i see that dropbear has been installed aswell. http://rafb.net/p/eKxKVb30.html & http://rafb.net/p/HTyGg381.html
May 25 08:19:47 <Zorkman> jonkristian: if you are using SHR and trying to log in through wifi, you need to edit a file first
May 25 08:21:30 <jonkristian> Zorkman: No, i am using debian on the fr, installed last night, trying to ssh into it.
May 25 08:22:17 <Zorkman> looks like the FR is better secured than all those people who are objecting the "run everything as root" :D
May 25 08:22:52 <jonkristian> you just gave me an idea on what the reason might be
May 25 08:22:56 <jonkristian> thanks
May 25 08:23:50 <Zorkman> np, i haven't the slightets idea what i did, but you're welcome :)
May 25 08:25:38 <jonkristian> If I am right, the option to ssh as root is not enabled as default, but it's a little long shot.
May 25 08:31:20 <jonkristian> hm, wasn't that either.
May 25 08:32:40 <Zorkman> i'll try to say something random again:
May 25 08:32:47 <Zorkman> jonkristian: have you looked at the mango's?
May 25 08:32:51 <jonkristian> yes yes, please:)
May 25 08:33:12 * jonkristian is grepping for mango's
May 25 08:34:04 <Zorkman> you do know it's no longer usb0? 
May 25 08:34:16 <jonkristian> if mango's are equivalent to the debian openmoko wiki, i am there:)
May 25 08:36:41 <Deubeuliou> alphaone|gone: please ping me when you're back
May 25 08:39:21 <alphaone> Deubeuliou: pinh
May 25 08:39:23 <alphaone> g
May 25 08:39:55 <Zorkman> pinch him good!
May 25 08:40:17 <jonkristian> Zorkman: yesh, i do.
May 25 08:40:41 <jonkristian> something ain't right, that's for sure.
May 25 08:45:30 <mrmoku> Deubeuliou, alphaone, is the group foto already somewhere? :D
May 25 08:45:44 <mrmoku> (my wife wants to see the freaks I passed the weekend with ;)
May 25 08:48:22 <alphaone> nope. let me upload them quickly
May 25 08:48:29 <jonkristian> can someone pastebin their debian fstab, just want to compare some stuff:) ?
May 25 08:48:29 <mrmoku> :) thanks
May 25 08:49:14 <Zorkman> mrmoku: wasn't she worried, that there would be like twenty hot chicks; and that she bas in danger of being cheated ? :p
May 25 08:49:51 <mrmoku> Zorkman, that's why I have to show her the foto with all the hot dudes :P
May 25 08:50:20 <morphis> mrmoku: in the shr wiki is already a link to some pictures
May 25 08:51:40 <stefan_schmidt> *yawn* morning guys
May 25 08:51:48 <morphis> hey stefan_schmidt 
May 25 08:52:16 <morphis> you already read the mail from the guy offering us some funding for gnufiish (just only for pizza and beer :)
May 25 08:52:30 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: heh, I did
May 25 08:53:07 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: Problem is that such small funds also have to get taxed if it targets your working area. (For me it does)
May 25 08:53:18 <stefan_schmidt> Therefor it is not worth the effort.
May 25 08:53:41 <morphis> they have to get taxed? 
May 25 08:53:46 <stefan_schmidt> Donations in form of devices are easier to handle.
May 25 08:53:52 <morphis> :)
May 25 08:54:14 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: Yes, if they are for the same work you do for living
May 25 08:54:22 <morphis> what is when he is sending is some bottle of beer/mate
May 25 08:54:29 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: If not people would get 'donations' from the boss ;)
May 25 08:54:40 <morphis> ah ok :)
May 25 08:54:46 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: That is not a problem. Money donations are the problem
May 25 08:54:50 <stefan_schmidt> paypal, etc
May 25 08:55:15 <morphis> ok
May 25 08:55:32 <morphis> how was the con? some people interested in gnufiish?
May 25 08:55:55 <mrmoku> morphis, yeah seen them... missing the nice group foto :)
May 25 08:56:58 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: it was nice.
May 25 08:57:08 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: Just a bit exhaust right now
May 25 08:57:39 <morphis> :)
May 25 08:57:46 <morphis> I sad about not beeing there
May 25 08:58:03 <morphis> s/I /I am/
May 25 08:58:03 <bzzbot> morphis meant: I amsad about not beeing there
May 25 08:58:05 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: next year :)
May 25 08:58:12 <morphis> I hope so
May 25 08:58:24 <morphis> when it is not at the same date 
May 25 09:01:38 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: no idea or plans yet
May 25 09:01:54 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: Just take over the organizing and you decide ;)
May 25 09:06:11 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: maybe, don't whats up with me next year at this time :) 
May 25 09:07:40 <Deubeuliou> alphaone: my FR can't register to the network since the buzz fix
May 25 09:07:54 <Deubeuliou> I thougt this was because of the roaming
May 25 09:08:12 <Deubeuliou> but here at home, neither hackable:1 nor shr succeed in registering
May 25 09:08:22 <Deubeuliou> on shr, ophonekitd doesn't start
May 25 09:08:32 <Deubeuliou> my "standard" phone does succeed
May 25 09:08:43 <alphaone> Deubeuliou: That sounds strange
May 25 09:08:49 <Deubeuliou> yeah ...
May 25 09:09:45 <Deubeuliou> I don't see how the mic could be related with the antenna
May 25 09:10:03 <Deubeuliou> (I think the problem is the antenna: shr-settings can't turn it on)
May 25 09:10:04 <alphaone> Deubeuliou: Did I test your phone?
May 25 09:10:12 <alphaone> What does the rework sheet say?
May 25 09:10:16 <Deubeuliou> you wrote you did
May 25 09:10:22 <Deubeuliou> "no buzz"
May 25 09:10:50 <Deubeuliou> I'll try te reflash with thelatest unstable
May 25 09:10:54 <alphaone> Then I was able to make a phone call
May 25 09:19:00 <alphaone> Deubeuliou: Some logs would be helpful
May 25 09:19:15 <alphaone> with ogsmd loglevel set to debug
May 25 09:20:01 <Deubeuliou> ok, for now, I'm falshing my neo
May 25 09:20:11 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: I got somehow connected to the fm chip :)
May 25 09:20:15 <alphaone> okay
May 25 09:20:24 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: yay
May 25 09:20:34 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: I retrieved some chip id and a device id
May 25 09:20:37 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: some how means you don't know the magic yet?
May 25 09:20:52 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: I only guess how it works
May 25 09:21:08 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: ok
May 25 09:21:17 <morphis> I just replayed the gpio sequence the knight program does and loaded my si470x_i2c driver
May 25 09:21:26 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: It's always a guess in the  beginning... :)
May 25 09:21:33 <morphis> jepp
May 25 09:39:48 <tmzt> fm on which phone?
May 25 09:43:14 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, ping
May 25 09:43:52 <Ainulindale> pong
May 25 09:43:58 <tmzt> morphis: what device? what is this program for?
May 25 09:46:34 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, I'm trying to build oemerge... missing the autorev thingie :P
May 25 09:46:37 <mrmoku> could you commit?
May 25 09:47:01 <Ainulindale> the autorev thingie? there's none, my sed has been too optimistic
May 25 09:47:26 <mrmoku> ahh, will replace it with autorev-unstable then...
May 25 09:47:31 <Ainulindale> Please do :-)
May 25 09:50:28 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-makefile * r48107ffbd299 10/Makefile: Makefile: setup local.conf to not include shr-autorev-oemerge but unstable instead
May 25 09:57:07 <Deubeuliou> alphaone: sorry for having frightened you: it works again :)
May 25 09:57:31 <alphaone> Deubeuliou: I never doubted that ;-)
May 25 10:00:18 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: so what was the problem ?
May 25 10:00:37 <Deubeuliou> but the sound is horrible :D (I dont know how it is for the callee but I called my answering machine, it was awful. it will do the firmware upgrade)
May 25 10:00:46 <Deubeuliou> ptitjes: I don't know :)
May 25 10:01:18 <Deubeuliou> it works now, so it my have been a problem with an old unstable that is fixed now
May 25 10:01:25 <Deubeuliou> (I re-flashed)
May 25 10:01:30 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: yeah we have to produce a buzz-fixed-patch.opkg but I don't know what to act on...
May 25 10:01:36 <Deubeuliou> 'k
May 25 10:01:41 <Deubeuliou> mahl zeit !
May 25 10:01:48 <Deubeuliou> (meal time)
May 25 10:02:17 <Deubeuliou> CU
May 25 10:03:01 <Ainulindale> Deubeuliou: change your scenarii
May 25 10:03:12 <Ainulindale> Deubeuliou: gsmhandset "Speaker" should be to ~110
May 25 10:03:16 <Ainulindale> and Mic2 should be reduced
May 25 10:04:04 <lindi-> Ainulindale: everyone seems to have a different opinion on these
May 25 10:04:31 <Ainulindale> lindi-: well here it's been tested on 4 different phones after the buzz fix
May 25 10:04:49 <Ainulindale> lindi-: So one can only try to think it might actually be necessary :-)
May 25 10:05:02 <lindi-> Ainulindale: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_Freerunner_audio_subsystem says Mic2 is suggested to have maximum value
May 25 10:05:28 <Ainulindale> Well sadly it'll saturate
May 25 10:06:31 <lindi-> Ainulindale: you should file a bug report
May 25 10:06:47 <lindi-> Ainulindale: otherwise we'll never get the right state file to distros. I filed one at http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2282
May 25 10:08:11 <Ainulindale> well I'll do that only when I'll have proof it's that way
May 25 10:08:25 <alphaone> mrmoku: http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/gallery/f9n/index.html
May 25 10:08:32 <morphis> tmzt: on the Glofiish M800
May 25 10:08:44 <tmzt> morphis: thanks, is it in the bt chip?
May 25 10:10:14 <morphis> tmzt: in the bluetooth chip? no, it's an own chip 
May 25 10:11:01 <tmzt> ok
May 25 10:11:16 <morphis> alphaone: is this (http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/gallery/f9n/img_5959_Med.jpg.1.html) the fr with a new case from swisscom?
May 25 10:11:26 <tmzt> makes sense now, I was pretty sure fr didn't have fm
May 25 10:11:45 <alphaone> morphis: Thats
May 25 10:11:55 <alphaone> That's just the new case with a mock up
May 25 10:12:11 <Zorkman> alphaone: it also has a bezel :(
May 25 10:12:20 <tmzt> are you screens depessed like that?
May 25 10:12:25 <alphaone> morphis: http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/gallery/f9n/img_5961_Med.jpg.3.html shows their case with my FR inside
May 25 10:12:39 <alphaone> My screen is always depressed
May 25 10:12:48 <alphaone> It's so sad :-)
May 25 10:13:02 <Zorkman> sometimes my screen is just pressed :)
May 25 10:13:17 <alphaone> :-)
May 25 10:13:24 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: also you the alsa control 63 ("Mic Sidetone Mux") must be to Mic2 (this is not the case in current shr unstable)
May 25 10:13:34 <alphaone> Zorkman: Yeah, but the bezel is not quite as big
May 25 10:13:53 <Zorkman> alphaone: you work at swisscom?
May 25 10:14:04 <alphaone> nope
May 25 10:15:30 <alphaone> Zorkman: I'm just a student trying to get by :-)
May 25 10:16:17 <Zorkman> k, could be you had some inside information ;-)
May 25 10:18:06 <Zorkman> small question: is http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Tweaks#majorreallymajorspeedupofsuspendandwakeup not integrated in standard shr?
May 25 10:18:13 <Zorkman> if not: why?
May 25 10:21:46 <mrmoku> alphaone, thanks :)
May 25 10:23:17 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, nah, I don't think it has much to do with the buzz fix...
May 25 10:23:31 <mrmoku> I had the loud volume with just the new alsa state files without buzz fix
May 25 10:24:04 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: I pushed the fm code 
May 25 10:24:21 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: great, thanks
May 25 10:26:26 <ptitjes> alphaone: when modifying values with alsamixer during a call, are the values saved to the state file when releasing the call ?
May 25 10:26:36 <alphaone> ptitjes: No
May 25 10:26:43 <ptitjes> grrr
May 25 10:26:49 <ptitjes> I had found good values :)
May 25 10:26:54 <alphaone> Hehe
May 25 10:26:55 <alphaone> sorry
May 25 10:26:56 <ptitjes> I have to redo it then :)
May 25 10:27:04 <Ainulindale> Speaker 110 & Mic2 2 IIRC
May 25 10:27:17 <Ainulindale> Just modify the state file
May 25 10:27:20 <mrmoku> yeah Speaker 110
May 25 10:27:25 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: currently it works until the tuner timed out, but I could not test if it is a really timeout cause I have no antenna available
May 25 10:27:32 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yep my problem is that names are different under alsamixer and the state file :)
May 25 10:27:46 <mrmoku> and Mic2 2
May 25 10:28:02 <Ainulindale> I'm talking about the state file
May 25 10:28:09 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and you were right echo stops when lowering the speaker
May 25 10:28:11 <mrmoku> ptitjes, so... open the statefile in eclipse and edit it - it will even give you a quickdiff ;)
May 25 10:28:21 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: mwahahaha
May 25 10:28:26 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and the default capture value is way too loud and saturate
May 25 10:28:33 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: Mic2.
May 25 10:28:35 <ptitjes> mrmoku: héhéhé
May 25 10:29:07 <ptitjes> mrmoku: don't worry, one day you'll know how to use good tools ;)
May 25 10:30:15 <mrmoku> ptitjes, in contrary to you at least I already use them... how to will come with time ;)
May 25 10:30:29 <ptitjes> :)
May 25 10:33:57 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: it gnufiish trac system is unavailable again :)
May 25 10:34:03 <morphis> s/it/the/
May 25 10:34:03 <bzzbot> morphis meant: stefan_schmidt: the gnufiish trac system is unavailable again :)
May 25 10:34:04 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: ok so I'm doing a "buzz-fixed-phone.bb" recipe shipping the modified gsmhandset.state
May 25 10:34:14 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: would you accept that recipe ?
May 25 10:34:32 <Ainulindale> not this way
May 25 10:34:43 <Ainulindale> We have to ship a alsa-scenarii-shr with all the states
May 25 10:34:46 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: ok tell me what you would prefer
May 25 10:34:53 <ptitjes> ha ok
May 25 10:35:09 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: let me check
May 25 10:35:14 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: ok doing that
May 25 10:35:15 <ptitjes> then
May 25 10:35:54 <Ainulindale> maybe alsa-scenarii-buzzfixed-shr might be better
May 25 10:36:18 <Ainulindale> Remember it might be ARCH dependent.
May 25 10:36:37 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: then if it for buzz-fixed only, why ship all the files (that may be a dumb question but...)
May 25 10:36:57 <Ainulindale> because this is the proper way to do it
May 25 10:37:01 <ptitjes> oki
May 25 10:37:29 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: The whole machine is not available atm. Can't log in. Let us wait a bit.
May 25 10:37:53 <tmzt> people?
May 25 10:38:27 <ptitjes> hum ARCH-dependent... ?
May 25 10:39:34 <morphis> stefan_schmidt: aye
May 25 10:40:24 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: You mean me?
May 25 10:40:33 <tmzt> yes
May 25 10:41:01 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: gnufiish itself is a different machine. gnufiish git runs on the openezx virtual machine
May 25 10:41:07 <stefan_schmidt> that one is working
May 25 10:41:17 <tmzt> oh, ok
May 25 10:41:31 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: hum the changes I made directly in the state file, are not as good as the one I did in alsamixer manually: my voice is still too loud for the other party
May 25 10:41:58 <alphaone> ptitjes: Well, at least that's a change!
May 25 10:42:07 <alphaone> Usually it was too silent
May 25 10:42:12 <ptitjes> héhéhé :)
May 25 10:43:36 <mrmoku> ptitjes, I would veto such an recipe 
May 25 10:43:47 <ptitjes> mrmoku: really ?
May 25 10:44:04 <mrmoku> ptitjes, it does NOT depend the buzzfix
May 25 10:44:06 <ptitjes> mrmoku: you mean those changes should be done in fso's recipe ?
May 25 10:44:20 <mrmoku> just the coincidence that we have a different statefile from upstream
May 25 10:44:30 <ptitjes> mrmoku: so you would call that alsa-scenarii-shr ?
May 25 10:44:41 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: well I still think we should ship with the normal one and offer the possibility to have the buzzfixed one as one can't cope with buzzfixed settings on a non buzzfixed phone
May 25 10:44:44 <morphis> Ainulindale & mrmoku: I have currently some trouble with building the shr-unstable image
May 25 10:44:56 <morphis> everytime the build of vala-native failed cause of the unknown symbol
May 25 10:45:11 <mrmoku> I think we should get those damn volume sliders into the active phone call view ;)
May 25 10:45:53 <mrmoku> morphis, yep, known thing
May 25 10:46:02 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: that too
May 25 10:46:02 <morphis> mrmoku: some workaround?
May 25 10:46:42 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, is there some tag to tell opkg de-install that package when installing this one?
May 25 10:46:57 <morphis> Ainulindale: just another thing: current message&contact view is just basic, why not adopt raster ideas from elementary-sms/contacts?
May 25 10:48:00 <ptitjes> mrmoku, Ainulindale: according to mickey|zzZZzz, in the upcomming odeviced there will be a org.freesmartphone.Device.AudioMixer that will enable us to do such controls on the active call view
May 25 10:48:17 <ptitjes> mrmoku: anyway there should be decent values in the state file a priori
May 25 10:48:57 <mrmoku> ptitjes, I agree on that one :)
May 25 10:49:07 <ptitjes> :)
May 25 10:49:30 <Zorkman> morphis: what is raster his idea?
May 25 10:49:52 <morphis> Zorkman: look at the both application elementary-sms and elementary-contacts in the e svn
May 25 10:50:42 <morphis> Zorkman: or the screenshots here: http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary
May 25 10:52:38 <Zorkman> morphis: you mean http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/attachment/wiki/Elementary/elm-finger-scale-07.2.png ?
May 25 10:53:01 <morphis> Zorkman: jepp
May 25 10:53:20 <Zorkman> idea seems refreshing, but buttons and picture take a lot of space when you campare it with the actual text
May 25 10:53:56 <morphis> Zorkman: jepp, but you can disable them by a config option for example
May 25 10:54:10 <Zorkman> it would be very nice, but maybe also provide a "simple" layout for people why don't like scrolling so much (the FR will hate scrolling all those images :))
May 25 10:54:23 <Zorkman> morphis: it that case it seems very nice
May 25 10:55:15 <morphis> I think that is the advantage of the libframework-phonegui design
May 25 10:55:15 <Zorkman> morphis: one thing thought, in stead of having underneath every button a "options/reply/delete" button, why not have on, that stays in place? (like we have now in shr-messages) ?
May 25 10:55:41 <Zorkman> underneath every message i mean
May 25 10:55:45 <morphis> Zorkman: jepp, I don't like it too
May 25 10:56:10 <Zorkman> but all in all, everything e-related mostly looks good...
May 25 10:56:15 <morphis> :)
May 25 10:56:56 <morphis> I think if I have some time the next days I will work a little bit on this :)
May 25 10:57:07 <Zorkman> you have my blessing morphis :D
May 25 10:57:48 <morphis> Zorkman: thanks :)
May 25 10:58:44 <morphis> this would bring more appeal to our phone applications I think
May 25 11:00:56 <ptitjes> it seems modifying Control 12 to 6 (instead of 7) make my voice really more confortable for the other party
May 25 11:04:39 <mrmoku> ptitjes, if you have some statefile which satisfies you... could please send it to shr-user and ask people to try it out?
May 25 11:04:55 <mrmoku> that way we can see if it fits common sense ;)
May 25 11:04:55 <ptitjes> yep this what I was thinking about :)
May 25 11:04:59 <mrmoku> :)
May 25 11:08:42 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I like the way you're thinking I must have seen that somewhere =)
May 25 11:11:16 * mrmoku learns fast :P
May 25 11:11:45 <ptitjes> :)
May 25 11:12:30 <ptitjes> I just had a call from a friend that knows a bit in sound engineering
May 25 11:12:51 <ptitjes> and he told me that my voice was kinda like gated
May 25 11:13:05 <ptitjes> so there still seem to be some more adjustments to do
May 25 11:13:21 <ptitjes> maybe the echo suppression is too high
May 25 11:13:33 <ptitjes> that would explain the gate-like effect
May 25 11:15:16 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: didn't you told me this is configurable in frameworkd.conf ?
May 25 11:15:43 <mrmoku> ptitjes, yep... just look the example conf in frameworkd source
May 25 11:15:49 <mrmoku> +at
May 25 11:16:34 <ptitjes> hummm ti_calypso_dsp_mode = long-aec:12db
May 25 11:16:59 <ptitjes> wow so many choice
May 25 11:17:01 <ptitjes> +s
May 25 11:17:31 <jonkristian> can't seem to start x, i try to do dpkg-divert --add /etc/init.d/nodm but nodm file isn't in /etc/init.d/ after.
May 25 11:18:39 <mrmoku> ptitjes, yep, and it defaults to max
May 25 11:19:43 <ptitjes> alphaone: can we mix dsp modes for the calypso, say: ti_calypso_dsp_mode = long-aec:12db+nr:12db ??
May 25 11:20:13 <ptitjes> or aec+nr is a special case ?
May 25 11:20:27 <tmzt> how do those get sent to the modem?
May 25 11:20:45 <ptitjes> tmzt: through the framework ogsmd
May 25 11:21:03 <tmzt> ok, modems calypso
May 25 11:27:52 <Zorkman> does no-one have the nescessary equipment to do scientific tests?
May 25 11:27:59 <Zorkman> DocScrutinizer maybe?
May 25 11:28:15 <DocScrutinizer> huh?
May 25 11:28:26 <Zorkman> sorry to ping you DocScrutinizer, wasn't my intention
May 25 11:28:39 <Zorkman> they were talking about the sound quality
May 25 11:28:52 <Zorkman> but its mostly "what the other person hears"
May 25 11:29:10 <Zorkman> this seems quite difficult to build upon, seen the lack of objectivity
May 25 11:29:25 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 25 11:29:59 <Zorkman> wouldn't it be best to do some basic tests : sound gets recorderd on your side, and on the other side, do some frequency analysis
May 25 11:30:30 <Zorkman> might be me, but it can't be that hard... the only problem is the multitude of controls maybe...
May 25 11:30:34 <DocScrutinizer> what for?
May 25 11:30:48 <Zorkman> seems like the statefiles are not yet optimal
May 25 11:31:51 <DocScrutinizer> so messing around withstatefiles to enable recording and then compare this to what was transmitted thru gsm wont help for sure ;-)
May 25 11:32:58 <Zorkman> no i mean like putting an external mic and the mic of the FR close to eachother, no messing with statefiles to send the sound
May 25 11:33:25 <Zorkman> ofcourse they will differ a lot due to different placement and mic, but the best statefiles will give the smallest error
May 25 11:34:25 <DocScrutinizer> to "optimize" AT%Nxxx AEC setting of calypso you could püayback a test audio thru wolfson to modem, then do some ATcmd meddling and compare farend
May 25 11:35:42 <DocScrutinizer> for mic adjustment I recommend using a local pipethru or recording from builtin mic to find best setting for mic-sensitivity (control48?)
May 25 11:40:02 <DocScrutinizer> anyway fsck 31C here atm. need a shower - bbl
May 25 11:45:54 <mrmoku> uhh... yeah hot today :D
May 25 11:49:47 <mrmoku> ptitjes, you did not listen ;)
May 25 11:50:03 <ptitjes> what ?
May 25 11:50:11 <ptitjes> did I made a mistake ?
May 25 11:50:40 <ptitjes> hummm
May 25 11:50:42 <ptitjes> oki
May 25 11:51:33 <mrmoku> :) it's interesting for *all* phones
May 25 11:51:56 <ptitjes> do you see why I never write mails ?
May 25 11:52:03 <DocScrutinizer> btw, seems we found root cause for #1024 now. Layout/schem flaw: U1002-H2 VSDBB voltage regulator feedback sensing should be connected to U1001-P7 consumer pin. We got a short trace from regulator out directly to sense in next to it :-/ So fsckng R1003/4 isn't in reg loop
May 25 11:52:18 <ptitjes> because I'm too much stupid or in another world
May 25 11:52:29 <mrmoku> ptitjes, or you don't listen ;)
May 25 11:52:47 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, wow... that means another hardware fix? more parties... :P
May 25 11:53:07 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, or is it unfixable?
May 25 11:53:15 <DocScrutinizer> seems to be fixable by increasing C1009
May 25 11:53:34 <DocScrutinizer> root flaw not fixable :-(
May 25 11:53:49 <ptitjes> mrmoku: same as "in another world"!!
May 25 11:53:53 <DocScrutinizer> (except with new layout of PCB)
May 25 11:54:02 <mrmoku> being able to hack around is at least something
May 25 11:54:49 <DocScrutinizer> anyway sleep2 sw-fix seems to work
May 25 11:55:57 * mrmoku is wondering if ptitjes is using eclipse too often... might be a health hazard :P
May 25 11:56:02 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, true too
May 25 11:56:03 <DocScrutinizer> you could pump up standby *if* you're suffering from #1024 a lot - then increasing C1009 could give you maybe 30% longer standby
May 25 11:56:18 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #480 (navit feed and opkg upgrade) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/480>
May 25 12:01:29 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #481 (phone icons) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/481>
May 25 12:04:51 <spaetz> Ainulindale: ping
May 25 12:05:01 <spaetz> I am here now. meetings up to now
May 25 12:05:20 <jonkristian> Where might i find xserver-nodm on debian? i installed nodm, but there are no script in /etc/init.d/
May 25 12:05:21 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #482 (contact) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/482>
May 25 12:09:25 <Ainulindale> mrmoku, mickey|zzZZzz : seems it's ok for spaetz 
May 25 12:11:01 <spaetz> yep, I'm in
May 25 12:11:05 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, spaetz, good :)
May 25 12:12:00 <spaetz> I'll need more help with bug wrangling, though. I notice that I can't manage the incoming flow
May 25 12:12:19 <spaetz> well, of course I can randomly assign to mrmoku, ainu and dos :) but...
May 25 12:12:44 <spaetz> BTW, has the ownership of ophone apps been discussed over the weekend?
May 25 12:13:02 <spaetz> who *owns* which apps /piece fo code/. Or are we anarchic?
May 25 12:13:29 <spaetz> eg, who should be assigned for dialer/message bugs etc
May 25 12:13:50 <spaetz> not ophone apps, *Phone apps*, I mean. (my typing sucks)
May 25 12:14:56 <spaetz> and why is mickey|zzZZzz still sleeping? What did you guys do to him over the weekend?
May 25 12:19:52 <Blu3> how can i request the virtual keyboard pop up within pygtk/python?
May 25 12:22:42 <mrmoku> spaetz, no, did not talk about that
May 25 12:23:13 <mrmoku> spaetz, but we talked about the necessity to distribute responsibilities :)
May 25 12:23:55 <mrmoku> we should do that on the core ML... and until then you can happily assign me stuff regarding the EFL frontend, the buildhost and maybe some package requests :P
May 25 12:24:12 <spaetz> ok, think it would be useful to kind of distribute responsibilities, so I know whom to bug :)
May 25 12:24:48 <Ainulindale> actually we can edit the default assignees
May 25 12:24:55 <spaetz> mrmoku: cool, ... and thanks
May 25 12:37:28 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, sent my commit access request mail :)
May 25 12:38:30 <Ainulindale> good! :-)
May 25 12:41:16 <TAsn> Ainulindale, well, how was shrfsocon?
May 25 12:41:45 <spaetz> mrmoku: to which list do you sent that? Can you mail me your template so I can also request commit access, please? :)
May 25 12:43:03 <mrmoku> spaetz, hehe, ok 
May 25 12:43:15 <mrmoku>  
May 25 12:43:16 <spaetz> Sebastian SSpaeth de
May 25 12:43:16 <mrmoku> openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org
May 25 12:43:21 <spaetz> ok, thanks
May 25 12:43:57 <mrmoku> sent
May 25 12:44:02 <spaetz> cool
May 25 12:50:12 <Deubeuliou> Ainulindale: on what thread do you want to discuss about the fonctionnal needs ?
May 25 12:50:21 <Deubeuliou> or should I create a new one ?
May 25 12:50:39 <Ainulindale> Deubeuliou: on shr-devel
May 25 12:50:58 <Ainulindale> create a new one if you want to
May 25 12:51:15 <Deubeuliou> ok
May 25 12:51:16 <spaetz> mrmoku: seems that gnome apps need dbus-x11 which doesn't seem to be installed by default
May 25 12:51:17 <Deubeuliou> will do
May 25 12:51:24 <spaetz> agree to include it by default?
May 25 12:51:25 <spaetz> http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/438#comment:7
May 25 12:52:14 <spaetz> seems to need "http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/438#comment:7"
May 25 12:52:20 <spaetz> err, "dbus-launch" file
May 25 12:52:51 <mrmoku> spaetz, fine for me
May 25 12:52:58 <mrmoku> (have to wait for commit access though ;)
May 25 12:53:22 <spaetz> include it in SHR overlay for now? Or is that all in the OE branch now?
May 25 12:53:39 <mrmoku> spaetz, all in OE :)
May 25 12:53:48 <spaetz> mmh, I see :)
May 25 12:54:09 <Ainulindale> By the way all of you guys should try to build the oemerge distro
May 25 12:54:34 * mrmoku has already a build running ;)
May 25 12:55:33 <Ainulindale> I know that :-)
May 25 12:55:40 <Ainulindale> Did you fix my mistake on the makefile or should I?
May 25 12:55:51 <mrmoku> already did that :)
May 25 12:56:00 <Ainulindale> Thanks
May 25 12:56:10 <spaetz> so which is the branch to use in OE?
May 25 12:56:26 <mrmoku> shr/import
May 25 12:56:32 <Ainulindale> All is in the makefile spaetz 
May 25 12:56:33 <mrmoku> (for now)
May 25 12:56:48 <spaetz> mrmoku: ok, thanks. Ainulindale cool, will check it out
May 25 12:57:39 <spaetz> and this is the branch that we will base releases on, plus SHR overlay, right? No more FSO-MS5.5 then?
May 25 12:57:57 * spaetz will check the makefile
May 25 12:59:21 <mrmoku> spaetz, release will be without overlay... branch name will still change I think :)
May 25 13:03:18 <spaetz> mrmoku: ok, good to know. So we are a vanilla OE project now :)
May 25 13:03:27 <mrmoku> yeah :)
May 25 13:03:41 <mrmoku> spaetz, we will still have the overlay as patch sandbox though...
May 25 13:04:03 <spaetz> yep, that's what Ainulindale was asking me, whether I would help to review/port those patches
May 25 13:04:08 <spaetz> which I will...
May 25 13:04:25 <spaetz> if you don't veto that :)
May 25 13:05:24 <mrmoku> nah... of course I will :P
May 25 13:05:39 <spaetz> thought so ;P
May 25 13:07:32 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: so could I actually try to update today? or isn't there any image with functionality of test-2009.04.16 yet?
May 25 13:08:54 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, good question :P
May 25 13:09:34 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, what does the list of apps you want contain?
May 25 13:09:47 <DocScrutinizer> very basic
May 25 13:10:08 <DocScrutinizer> no special things added yet (except mokomaze)
May 25 13:10:22 <mrmoku> lite or fat image?
May 25 13:10:50 <DocScrutinizer> I want a working suspend/resume, and working powerbutton menu
May 25 13:11:31 <DocScrutinizer> (lite/fat) no idea. 04.16 had some 14 apps on launcher
May 25 13:12:41 <DocScrutinizer> first of all I need a working phone. plus some IRC ;-)
May 25 13:12:59 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, ok, 14 apps is fat ;)
May 25 13:13:32 <mrmoku> regarding suspend/resume... there are some dbus problems... which makes that fail randomly :(
May 25 13:13:44 <DocScrutinizer> :-(((
May 25 13:14:40 <tmzt> why is dbus involved?
May 25 13:16:26 * DocScrutinizer wonders whether to get a flow, a zoom, or stick with M800
May 25 13:18:43 <jonkristian> ouch, anyone seen this before? trying to start x, it was working before, error opening security policy file /usr/lib/xserver/SecurityPolicy , can't find this file either.
May 25 13:19:31 <mrmoku> tmzt, because frameworkd is dbus based... and it looks like there is some bug in dbus making messages get dropped :(
May 25 13:19:34 * onen|openBmap thinks like DocScrutinizer
May 25 13:20:24 <tmzt> mrmoku: I mean why is it involved in resume, but I guess that's a cross os thing, not just kernel
May 25 13:21:12 <DocScrutinizer> kernel resume working fine AFAIK
May 25 13:21:23 <onen|openBmap> DocScrutinizer: hallo, what is a zoom (I just discovered the flow, and look at it)
May 25 13:21:45 <onen|openBmap> DocScrutinizer: I have a M800, but as long as GSM don't work... :-(
May 25 13:22:05 <spaetz> mrmoku: SHR makefile craps repeatedly out
May 25 13:22:06 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #480 (navit feed and opkg upgrade) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/480#comment:1>
May 25 13:22:06 <spaetz> http://dpaste.com/47497/
May 25 13:22:54 <spaetz> Onen_away: ping
May 25 13:23:12 <DocScrutinizer> Onen_away: http://www.phonemag.com/ti-zoom-symbian-048024.php
May 25 13:25:03 <DocScrutinizer> Onen_away: http://www.logicpd.com/products/development-kits/texas-instruments-zoom™-omap34x-ii-mdp
May 25 13:31:13 <DocScrutinizer> Onen_away: http://www.logicpd.com/sites/default/files/1012659A_Zoom_OMAP34x-II_MDP_Brief.pdf
May 25 13:33:14 <playya_> DocScrutinizer, nice device. but you'll need a rucksack to carry it
May 25 13:33:34 <DocScrutinizer> hehe - I don't care
May 25 13:44:09 <DocScrutinizer> [2009-05-25 14:15:40] <SpeedEvil> the guide had 'Don't panic' in yellow, in a relaxing font on the front cover
May 25 13:51:33 <mrmoku> spaetz, you should know that error by now ;)
May 25 13:51:35 <mrmoku> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
May 25 13:51:40 <mrmoku> just try again :)
May 25 13:53:52 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, hmm... zoom has a capacative touch screen...
May 25 13:54:40 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: yup :-/ but has a good kbd
May 25 13:55:42 <DocScrutinizer> so for the nasty cases I may get away with mouse emu via cursor keys
May 25 13:56:23 <DocScrutinizer> usually there's shortcuts for everything, I prefer to use those anyway
May 25 13:56:46 <mrmoku> :)
May 25 13:57:21 <DocScrutinizer> fsckng expensive though
May 25 13:58:10 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, my last *regular* cellphone lasted for 8Y
May 25 13:58:24 <DocScrutinizer> if zoom could do same... :-)
May 25 13:58:33 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer, still 7 to go ;) (for your FR) :P
May 25 13:59:05 <DocScrutinizer> FR has 5 *weeks* now of actual usage
May 25 13:59:12 <DocScrutinizer> for me
May 25 14:11:35 <luke-jr> can I get a Freerunner donated to port Gentoo to plz? >.>
May 25 14:18:26 <lindi-> luke-jr: won't any arm do?
May 25 14:18:57 <lindi-> luke-jr: debian uses http://db.debian.org/machines.cgi?host=agricola
May 25 14:19:10 <luke-jr> lindi-: that's compiling, not porting..?
May 25 14:19:41 <lindi-> luke-jr: doesn't gentoo already support armel?
May 25 14:19:43 <luke-jr> porting deals with hardware specifics, not CPU architecture so much
May 25 14:19:59 <luke-jr> eg, GPS, GSM, WiFi, etc
May 25 14:20:16 <lindi-> luke-jr: wifi is just like on any system
May 25 14:20:20 <lindi-> luke-jr: so is gps
May 25 14:20:47 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: pong
May 25 14:21:09 <luke-jr> lindi-: so it's as simple as popping in a Gentoo CD and going through the usual install? :p
May 25 14:21:20 * luke-jr knows most other handheld devices he's worked with aren't quite that simple
May 25 14:22:25 <jonkristian> lindi-: got stuff up and running eventually, it was quite painfull, lol. Unfortunately I couldn't install icewm , there was a dependency that was broken:/
May 25 14:28:16 <Heinervdm> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gentoo
May 25 14:28:59 <luke-jr> oh wow, someone already did? ö
May 25 14:38:57 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #480 (navit feed and opkg upgrade) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/480#comment:2>
May 25 14:44:31 <mrmoku> TAsn, ping
May 25 14:45:04 <TAsn> mrmoku, ?
May 25 14:45:36 <mrmoku> TAsn, was it an accident that you have the return type of a function in an extra line? or did I oversee that in your proposal?
May 25 14:45:37 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #482 (contact) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/482#comment:1>
May 25 14:46:04 <TAsn> mrmoku, I think you oversaw it.
May 25 14:46:15 * mrmoku checks ;)
May 25 14:46:16 <TAsn> (or I didn't write it)
May 25 14:46:27 <TAsn> I'm pretty sure it's in the kernel coding style
May 25 14:46:52 <TAsn> ok it's not.
May 25 14:47:24 <TAsn> ok
May 25 14:47:31 <mrmoku> TAsn :P and I dislike it ;)
May 25 14:47:35 <TAsn> hehe
May 25 14:47:44 <TAsn> ok, you are more than welcomed to change it back then.
May 25 14:47:48 <TAsn> though I must say
May 25 14:48:09 <TAsn> that K&R suggest both are good, and I like this one better because you can easily see the type
May 25 14:48:15 <TAsn> I mean, when the type ends
May 25 14:48:25 <mrmoku> hmmm...
May 25 14:48:31 <TAsn> and it doesn't take important needed line width in the function name and parameters types
May 25 14:49:28 <mrmoku> the patterns in my brain don't get it :P
May 25 14:49:37 <mrmoku> but I might as well just try it out... and see then
May 25 14:50:15 <TAsn> mrmoku, please give it a go
May 25 14:50:23 <TAsn> if you hate it or like it
May 25 14:50:30 <TAsn> doesn't matter, since we'll have to propose it in the ML
May 25 14:50:37 <TAsn> though in the meanwhile please try it ;)
May 25 14:50:39 <mrmoku> ok, if I still dislike it I will complain loudly on ML :P
May 25 14:50:39 <TAsn> as it rocks!
May 25 14:50:47 <TAsn> great.
May 25 14:50:50 <TAsn> :)
May 25 14:51:00 <TAsn> and if you like it, I'll officially add it.
May 25 14:51:07 <TAsn> btw mrmoku do you know where your towel is?
May 25 14:51:27 <mrmoku> hehe :) I'm in home office... so...
May 25 14:51:33 <TAsn> TAsn, (officially add it after talking about it in the ML)
May 25 14:51:51 <TAsn> mrmoku, partially counts.
May 25 14:51:53 <TAsn> :)
May 25 14:52:40 <TAsn> anyhow, I'm giving you until the weekend (do you think it's enough?) until you decide, and then I/you will post to the ML, ok?
May 25 14:52:48 <mrmoku> TAsn, ahh, and I started some vim config for the configurations... testing it and will add it to the wiki then
May 25 14:52:57 <mrmoku> TAsn, will suffice, yeah
May 25 14:53:15 <mrmoku> s/configurations/coding style/
May 25 14:53:33 <mrmoku> hot over here... thinking slowly :P
May 25 14:54:01 <TAsn> :)
May 25 14:54:05 <TAsn> it's hot here as well.
May 25 14:54:16 <TAsn> though I think it's my old p4 generating the heat, and not the sun :)
May 25 14:57:54 <mrmoku> TAsn, hmm something like this looks stupid though ;)
May 25 14:57:55 <mrmoku> static void 
May 25 14:57:56 <mrmoku> _reset(void)           
May 25 14:59:43 <TAsn> yeah. ;)
May 25 15:00:08 <mrmoku> though
May 25 15:00:10 <mrmoku> struct Window *
May 25 15:00:10 <mrmoku> instance_manager_remove(int type, int id)        
May 25 15:00:17 <TAsn> btw, the convention doesn't force you to start your static functions with an underscore!
May 25 15:00:17 <mrmoku> this looks much saner...
May 25 15:00:32 <mrmoku> TAsn, quickdev relict ;)
May 25 15:00:48 <TAsn> instead you should just have a descriptive prefix if it's not static. :)
May 25 15:00:58 <TAsn> mrmoku, hehe, that's ok, many people like this convention
May 25 15:01:12 <mrmoku> couldn't we have that rule to be not strictly enforcing?
May 25 15:01:23 <TAsn> what do you mean?
May 25 15:01:26 <mrmoku> like... normally you should do it, but when it looks stupid you don't have to?
May 25 15:01:47 <TAsn> oh, I'm fine with it.
May 25 15:01:55 <TAsn> (I'm with you on this one)
May 25 15:02:03 <TAsn> though I think headers should have it anyway
May 25 15:02:04 <mrmoku> anyway... will still try it a bit :)
May 25 15:02:38 <TAsn> and btw, I don't know if you noticed, but I didn't break a line with static functions declaration on the top of the code.
May 25 15:02:39 <mrmoku> you mean in headers you don't do it?
May 25 15:02:58 <mrmoku> good
May 25 15:03:04 <TAsn> mrmoku, I never do it, though I think we *should*.
May 25 15:03:05 <TAsn> :)
May 25 15:03:24 <TAsn> since the header data should be easy to read.
May 25 15:03:32 <TAsn> at least in my POV.
May 25 15:13:22 <spaetz> Onen_away: ahh now you are away again :)
May 25 15:14:04 <spaetz> mrmoku: yep, I had to retry about 5 times this time ....
May 25 15:14:30 <spaetz> also my latop freezes hard when i compile SHR from scratch. I suspect a heat issue...
May 25 15:14:35 <mrmoku> spaetz, quite annoying...
May 25 15:14:40 <spaetz> I use a different box now
May 25 15:14:40 <mrmoku> (both)
May 25 15:14:51 <mrmoku> ptitjes, to switch to libfso-glib...
May 25 15:14:55 <ChristW> I'm trying to follow the 'toochain' Wiki page, but I get an error compiling the 'sample' project: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libXext.la'. Any ideas what I can check and/or install?
May 25 15:14:55 <mrmoku> I just change that one
May 25 15:14:58 <mrmoku> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(LIBFRAMEWORKD_GLIB, libframeworkd-glib)
May 25 15:16:45 <ChristW> I'm trying to create a q virtual computer that is as clean as possible, but can compile software for the OpenMoko, so that I have a developer image.
May 25 15:17:09 <ChristW> Helps me to keep my computer clean :-)
May 25 15:31:25 * spaetz is not sure we want to switch to OE git, now it's hanging repeatedly while checking stuff out.
May 25 15:33:46 * mwester scans the backlog, searching desperately for any commits that fix the vala-native build problem...
May 25 15:45:31 <mrmoku> mwester, I'm doing a rebuild from scratch on my local buildhost now
May 25 15:45:49 <mrmoku> mwester, what branch are you trying to build?
May 25 15:46:22 <mwester> I have started one from an empty tmpdir as well.  I've also disabled all parallel options.  I think it will still break.
May 25 15:46:30 <mwester> unstable is what I am trying to build.
May 25 15:46:57 <mrmoku> mwester, there is shr-oemerge now, which builds without the overlay
May 25 15:47:39 <mwester> I am hoping that someone has fixed that vala-native problem; I think that if I need to edit OE/SHR recipes and perform manual build steps to get past an error, then the build is broken, and it should get top priority to be fixed.
May 25 15:48:18 <mrmoku> mwester, how right you are
May 25 15:48:28 <mrmoku> though I have to tell you that it will still break :(
May 25 15:48:29 <mwester> The fact that it works on the build server for SHR might indicate a host dependency, if so we should identify it so people can install it before building.
May 25 15:48:35 <mwester> It will still break?
May 25 15:48:38 * mwester sighs.
May 25 15:48:39 <mrmoku> yep
May 25 15:48:57 <mrmoku> we know how to fix it though :)
May 25 15:49:00 <mwester> Ok.  I go work on something else instead.  Maybe I'll go install Windows XP.  
May 25 15:49:16 <mrmoku> ouch
May 25 15:49:27 * mrmoku wonders if that would be more fun ;)
May 25 15:49:35 <mwester> It will be more successful.
May 25 15:49:45 <mwester> :p
May 25 15:49:56 <mrmoku> not if you try to do it from source ;)
May 25 15:50:02 <mwester> Ok, if we know how to fix it, then why is it not fixed?  Is there something horrible about the fix?
May 25 15:50:17 <mwester> Or is everyone too hung-over from the party over the weekend?
May 25 15:50:23 <mrmoku> thing is... vala needs vala to build itself
May 25 15:50:34 <mrmoku> that is why there is (soon was) vala-bootstrap-native package
May 25 15:50:41 <mwester> Yes.  So does gcc.  But gcc works. :p
May 25 15:51:12 <mrmoku> we elliminated the need for that by deciding (mickey + ptitjes) to do release tarballs and not build from git
May 25 15:51:30 <mrmoku> those release tarballs have vala as c source included
May 25 15:51:38 <mrmoku> so no need for an extra bootstrap package
May 25 15:51:47 <TAsn> mrmoku, cool. :)
May 25 15:52:09 <mwester> Ok... and...
May 25 15:52:11 <mrmoku> the tarball is allready there... we just need the recipe
May 25 15:52:25 <TAsn> mrmoku, change the SRC_URI?
May 25 15:52:35 <mwester> So, somebody removed the vala-bootstrap-native package, and did not create the new recipe?
May 25 15:52:40 <mwester> That seems the wrong order.
May 25 15:53:02 <TAsn> mwester, 
May 25 15:53:07 <TAsn> <mrmoku> that is why there is (soon was) vala-bootstrap-native package
May 25 15:53:09 <TAsn> soon was
May 25 15:53:13 <mrmoku> mwester, no. the old recipes are still there... just that current vala from git does not build with the vala from the bootstrap package
May 25 15:53:14 <TAsn> not already was :)
May 25 15:53:29 <mwester> mrmoku,  then we need to revert to the older vala version, no?
May 25 15:53:50 <mwester> we have had SHR unbulidable for at least an entire weekend; this is a bad thing.
May 25 15:54:01 <mrmoku> we need to commit the new recipes... and now comes the problem :P
May 25 15:54:10 <thrashold> So patching quilt continues to fail for me (it does so since 2007) and I can't compile SHR. Should I apply the three patches in shr-unstable/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/quilt-native-0.45-r2/quilt-0.45 before creating stamps, and which patches should I apply?
May 25 15:54:11 <mrmoku> I can't commit there... not yet
May 25 15:54:37 <mrmoku> TAsn, overriding SRC_URI might be an idea... will try that now
May 25 15:54:45 <mwester> No, the first problem is that we needed to revert to the older, still-working vala version.
May 25 15:54:54 <mwester> The second problem is what you state -- the new recipes.
May 25 15:55:01 <mwester> This is basic configuration management.
May 25 15:55:36 <mrmoku> I might tend to agree in general... though reverting to an older vala will break lots of other stuff that depends on the new vala
May 25 15:55:52 <mrmoku> so in this case we should just fix it
May 25 15:56:10 <mrmoku> mwester, you're right that this went quite suboptimal :(
May 25 15:56:29 <mrmoku> and that we should try harder to avoid something like that
May 25 15:56:31 <mwester> :D  You have a way with words... perhaps you are a politician?
May 25 15:56:44 <mrmoku> haha... no... then I would be rich :P
May 25 15:56:52 <mrmoku> and I am not :(
May 25 15:57:14 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #475 (battery gadget, wrong charge level on GTA02 + latest shr-unstable) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/475#comment:4>
May 25 15:58:24 <mwester> Ok.  So who do we have to bribe or threaten to get this fixed?
May 25 15:59:21 <mrmoku> mwester, well... I will try to fix it gratis - NOW :)
May 25 15:59:53 <mrmoku> mwester, you want to continue your build of unstable? or do you want to build the new thing from OE?
May 25 16:00:40 <mwester> I have no preference --what would you like to see tested?
May 25 16:02:28 <mrmoku> mwester, we should test the new oe thing, because we want to build the stable release from it
May 25 16:02:44 <mrmoku> so, if it would be ok for you... that would be the thing to do :)
May 25 16:04:54 <thrashold> Can anyone give any hint on this? http://pastebin.com/m57edbf2
May 25 16:05:52 <mwester> mrmoku,  ok.  how to setup?  URL for instructions?
May 25 16:08:12 <mrmoku> mwester, an URL I can't offer... but it should be as easy as: 'make update-common; make setup; cd shr-oemerge; make image'
May 25 16:08:25 <mrmoku> mwester, but I still need some minute to fix that vala thing
May 25 16:08:51 <mwester> "as easy as"   -- famous last words!  ;-)   I shall wait a few moments, and then try that. :)
May 25 16:11:03 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: ping
May 25 16:12:09 <mrmoku> mwester, will ping you when I finished *and* tested it
May 25 16:17:19 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, ping
May 25 16:18:23 * onen|openBmap feels like looking French Open Tennis with all these ping-pong goind on
May 25 16:19:32 <mrmoku> onen|openBmap, you and spaetz... have some increased latency while pinging :P
May 25 16:20:21 <onen|openBmap> mrmoku: ;-) but no packet loss :P
May 25 16:20:41 <onen|openBmap> mirko-paroli: hallo! how are you doing since we slept together? ;-)
May 25 16:20:51 <mirko-paroli> hrhr
May 25 16:21:01 <mirko-paroli> onen|openBmap: I still have the pictures in my head
May 25 16:21:03 <mirko-paroli> ;)
May 25 16:21:04 <mirko-paroli> :P
May 25 16:21:28 <onen|openBmap> mirko-paroli: :-D, I don't think so, you did not awake... :-O
May 25 16:21:57 <mirko-paroli> onen|openBmap: :D hehe, my body figured sleeping through it would make it easier :)
May 25 16:22:12 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * rb98d4dcc9fcd 10/patches/vala/0001-vala-native-switch-to-build-from-tarballs-instead-o.patch: add patch to make vala build from tarballs
May 25 16:23:51 <onen|openBmap> mirko-paroli: :-D
May 25 16:48:09 <ST1> hi everyone :)
May 25 16:48:34 <ST1> i'm coming back to see if anyone would have a solution for my little problem ...
May 25 16:49:03 <ST1> as i asked yesterday, i'm using a GTA02 phone and use the last version of FSO
May 25 16:49:21 <ST1> i created a little program, that request the gsm resource
May 25 16:49:30 <ST1> until here , everything's ok :)
May 25 16:49:56 <ST1> but when i want to submit my pin code , an error raise
May 25 16:50:05 <ST1> it says : SIM FAILURE...
May 25 16:50:31 <ST1> i know that it doesn't come from the gsm modem or anything else since, it works well with SHR
May 25 16:51:01 <ST1> (although since i upgrade to MOKO11 i have no sound anymore when i'm making a call... let's see that later)
May 25 16:51:46 <ST1> so , i would like to know if someone know is i missed something in order to be able to use my sim card normally :) thanks !
May 25 16:53:57 <DocScrutinizer> ST1: moko11 doesn't affect audio
May 25 16:56:56 <ST1> DocScrutinizer: maybe , but it seems that i lost audio right after installed it... but maybe is it something else
May 25 17:00:45 <DocScrutinizer> for sure it is
May 25 17:02:10 <DocScrutinizer> to proove you easily can downgrade to e.g. moko8
May 25 17:02:29 <DocScrutinizer> or moko9b1
May 25 17:02:41 <DocScrutinizer> which btw should be the same
May 25 17:03:49 <ST1> ok, so i will make some research for that problem independently... anything about my problem ?
May 25 17:08:33 <panicking> Hi all
May 25 17:08:34 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #475 (battery gadget, wrong charge level on GTA02 + latest shr-unstable) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/475#comment:5>
May 25 17:08:44 <DocScrutinizer> ST1: no clear idea. wrong PIN, wrong charset, wrong <cr>/<lf>?
May 25 17:08:47 <panicking> I'm working on accelerometer on freerunner in android
May 25 17:08:53 <panicking> and I write some code that works
May 25 17:08:58 <panicking> but I have some question
May 25 17:09:52 <DocScrutinizer> ST1: wrong sequence of commands?
May 25 17:09:53 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #480 (navit feed and opkg upgrade) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/480#comment:3>
May 25 17:10:41 <ST1> DocScrutinizer: It's possible i forget one ... In fact , i requested the GSM ressource, and right after launched the command to ask if the sim card required a code ... and that's crash
May 25 17:11:23 <DocScrutinizer> clearly wrong
May 25 17:11:26 <ST1> DocScrutinizer: If i pastebin my code, have you got time to look at it ? it's pretty small in fact. just few lines but maybe that could help
May 25 17:12:16 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, nope. I suggest to study FSO sources or log, to see how to do this the right way
May 25 17:14:52 <ptitjes> mrmoku: back
May 25 17:14:58 <ptitjes> that's too hot here
May 25 17:15:06 <ptitjes> was laying in the garden...
May 25 17:16:09 <ptitjes> mrmoku: you want to switch to libfso-glib, did I understood it correctly (or you were not talking to me)
May 25 17:16:19 <ptitjes> ?
May 25 17:18:25 <mrmoku> ptitjes, yep
May 25 17:18:40 <mrmoku> (at least start to play with it)
May 25 17:18:44 <alphaone> panicking: wpwrak is here
May 25 17:18:48 <ST1> if i come here... that's because i already searched a lot ... my goal is not to be assisted...
May 25 17:19:10 <panicking> wpwrak, Can I ask somenthing about accelerometers
May 25 17:19:11 <panicking> ?
May 25 17:19:32 <mrmoku> panicking, he should know something, yeah :P
May 25 17:20:09 <mrmoku> mwester, dinner came in between me and vala :P compiling now though
May 25 17:20:21 <panicking> mrmoku, I hope. 
May 25 17:21:12 <ptitjes> mrmoku: then doing something like what I do here and here might do it
May 25 17:21:18 <ptitjes> http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=ophonekitd.git;a=blob;f=configure.ac;hb=HEAD#l32
May 25 17:21:25 <ptitjes> http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=ophonekitd.git;a=blob;f=src/Makefile.am;hb=HEAD#l3
May 25 17:21:34 <lindi-> larsc: see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2009-May/010161.html for the clock source comparison
May 25 17:21:49 <mrmoku> ptitjes, ok, will look at vala ophonekit, thanks
May 25 17:22:13 <ptitjes> mrmoku: btw I had a strange error while building gupnp-vala to see if our new recipe would break it
May 25 17:22:17 <mrmoku> mwester, ok, it compiled :)
May 25 17:22:24 <ptitjes> (meant new vala recipe)
May 25 17:22:37 <panicking> wpwrak, I don't really understand why the bitbang operation is done with interrupt disabled. 
May 25 17:22:56 <mrmoku> mwester, the only thing missing is to remove all vala-native from openembedded/conf/distro/include/shr-autorev-unstable.inc
May 25 17:23:08 <mrmoku> (which again I cannot commit yet :()
May 25 17:23:19 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, ping... could you do that please ^^^
May 25 17:23:21 <ptitjes> mrmoku: see vala-native do not stage: http://pastebin.com/db93fe06 (log.stage)
May 25 17:23:27 <mrmoku> bbiab
May 25 17:24:03 <ptitjes> mrmoku: would you like the commit for the new recipe|remove files/|remove bootstrap ?
May 25 17:24:53 <ptitjes> mrmoku: is this due to the package_staging thing that all the fso team says we should not use ?
May 25 17:32:17 <mrmoku> ptitjes, no need for your broken recipe ;)
May 25 17:32:31 <ptitjes> héhéhé
May 25 17:32:35 <mrmoku> ptitjes, guess you forgot to change S from git to the actual name of the unpacked directory
May 25 17:32:50 <ptitjes> ouuuh
May 25 17:32:53 <mrmoku> but I already added the recipe (via patch for now due to missing OE commit rights)
May 25 17:33:13 <ptitjes> removing all the unused stuff
May 25 17:33:14 <ptitjes> ?
May 25 17:33:28 * mrmoku goes doing the good night story ritual :P
May 25 17:34:08 <ptitjes> I had added a VALA_FSO_RELEASE variable to define for 0.7.3-fso1
May 25 17:35:26 <KaZeR> <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #480 (navit feed and opkg upgrade) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/480#comment:3> -> opkg eating 100% of cpu, what can be wrong with the package?
May 25 17:38:35 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: pong
May 25 17:39:39 <KaZeR> spaetz, around?
May 25 17:49:07 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, hey, could you please use your commit power? :
May 25 17:49:08 <mrmoku> P
May 25 17:49:51 <ptitjes> wonder-Ainulindale
May 25 17:49:54 <ptitjes> :D
May 25 17:50:03 <mrmoku> Super-Ainulindale :P
May 25 17:50:13 <ptitjes> arf
May 25 17:51:02 <mrmoku> ptitjes, vala-native-0.7.2+0.7.3-fso1 is what I remember, correct?
May 25 17:51:40 <ptitjes> http://pastebin.com/d3edb99f8
May 25 17:51:52 <ptitjes> and yes I had forgotten the "vala-" in S
May 25 17:52:18 <mrmoku> ptitjes, would have been enough to just say yes ;)
May 25 17:52:27 <ptitjes> meh
May 25 17:52:33 <ptitjes> for once I do a good recipe
May 25 17:52:39 <ptitjes> nobody wants it :(
May 25 17:54:18 <mrmoku> ptitjes, didn't remember that you started that... and was under pressure to give mwester something that builds
May 25 17:54:25 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, gone again?
May 25 17:54:37 <ptitjes> mrmoku: the recipe name ? no. vala-native-0.7.2 is sufficient isn't it ?
May 25 17:54:59 <mrmoku> ptitjes, no, don't think so... 
May 25 17:55:03 <ptitjes> ha ok
May 25 17:55:20 <ptitjes> I should really not touch that OE thingie
May 25 17:55:29 <mrmoku> hmm, ok will add another patch to remove the vala stuff from the autorev file then...
May 25 17:56:06 <ptitjes> mrmoku: because the autorev is already in OE ??
May 25 17:56:10 <ptitjes> arf arf arf
May 25 17:56:12 <ptitjes> :D
May 25 17:57:44 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * rff1ad3fd0664 10/patches/vala/0002-remove-vala-native-from-shr-autorev-unstable.inc.patch: patches: add patch to remove vala from autorev
May 25 17:57:45 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #475 (battery gadget, wrong charge level on GTA02 + latest shr-unstable) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/475#comment:6>
May 25 17:58:02 <mrmoku> ptitjes, no, because autorev is for building from vcs systems (aka git repo)
May 25 17:58:31 <mrmoku> if you have a specific version you build (aka tarball) you don't have any rev
May 25 17:58:36 <ptitjes> yeah and autorev is already on oe ?
May 25 17:58:40 <mrmoku> mwester, ping
May 25 17:58:51 <mrmoku> ptitjes, ahh... the autorev file, yes :P
May 25 17:59:20 <ptitjes> I hope you get quickly the OE commit rights then :)
May 25 17:59:35 <mrmoku> ptitjes, already applied... lets see :)
May 25 17:59:51 <ptitjes> I've seen the mail and the one of sebastian
May 25 18:01:20 <mrmoku> until then I have to either use the overlay... or hope for SuperAinu ;)
May 25 18:01:55 <ptitjes> harsh
May 25 18:01:59 <ptitjes> ok gtg
May 25 18:02:04 <ptitjes> have a nice evening
May 25 18:02:04 <mrmoku> cu
May 25 18:02:18 <ptitjes> got to take my dog at my friend's home :)
May 25 18:02:21 <mrmoku> you too
May 25 18:02:25 * ptitjes happy
May 25 18:02:31 <DocScrutinizer> arfarf
May 25 18:02:35 * mrmoku figures that :)
May 25 18:04:31 <ptitjes> hummm no suspending anymore again...
May 25 18:05:50 <DocScrutinizer> F*******CK
May 25 18:06:13 <playya> ...ing hot
May 25 18:07:47 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #476 (Cannot create contact starting with *) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/476#comment:4> || Ticket #482 (Adding "preferred" contacts screen) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/482#comment:2>
May 25 18:09:20 <ST1> can someone check that part of log ? 
May 25 18:09:20 <ST1> http://pastebin.com/d66d06784
May 25 18:09:37 <ST1> i get an error 13 when asking my sim pin code requirement
May 25 18:16:28 <ST1> my source code is : http://pastebin.com/d59bbe1f6
May 25 18:21:51 <ST1> Nobody can help me ?
May 25 18:23:11 <playya> ST1, IRC isn't that instant. even if it seems to be
May 25 18:23:13 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #476 (Cannot create contact starting with *) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/476#comment:5>
May 25 18:25:51 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #482 (Adding "preferred" contacts screen) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/482#comment:3>
May 25 18:26:11 <ST1> playya : Sorry for insistance ... but i have to admit that it's driving me crazy :s
May 25 18:26:50 <playya> yes. but wait some time. if someone has an answer he will reply
May 25 18:31:25 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07mickey * r0bfe960c2ddb 10alsa-scenario/ (.gitignore autogen.sh): build system: more sanitizing
May 25 18:31:36 <DocScrutinizer> ST1: to me it seems in your log you're sending 'AT+CLIP=1\r\n' before 'AT+CLCK="SC",2\r\n' returns. I dunno if this might cause problems. Also yur SIM might be locked or sth
May 25 18:33:25 <ST1> After research , i think this is an FSO bug... even if it doesn't occured in SHR
May 25 18:33:33 <ST1> I will open a new one...
May 25 18:34:01 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|zzZZzz: ping
May 25 18:34:51 <mrmoku> mwester, whenever your XP install is finished... vala-native should build now :P
May 25 18:34:52 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #482 (Adding "preferred" contacts screen) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/482#comment:4>
May 25 18:35:32 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|zzZZzz: could you backscroll to >>[2009-05-25 18:49:56] <ST1> but when i want to submit my pin code , an error raise
May 25 18:39:40 <spaetz> KaZeR: I'm around now
May 25 18:40:25 <spaetz> Onen_away: damn, this is ping pong :). I'll write  mail, that is easier :)
May 25 18:40:34 <mickey|zzZZzz> DocScrutinizer ST1: ResourceRequest does not turn on functionality, it just requests the resource. try gsmdevice.SetAntennaPower(True) before querying the SIM.
May 25 18:41:13 <mickey|zzZZzz> nearby... eventually this will become SetFunctionality( level ), with level being "none", "sim", "phone"
May 25 18:41:43 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: I am here
May 25 18:41:47 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: hi
May 25 18:41:53 <spaetz> hehe
May 25 18:42:08 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: I saved you an email ;-)
May 25 18:42:16 <spaetz> just a few UI observations for openbmap, I used it for a 160km trip
May 25 18:42:25 <spaetz> and it works really nice
May 25 18:42:38 <ST1> mickey|zzZZzz : here is what the fso documentation says : Description: Set antenna power status for this device. Will raise AuthFailed if the SIM is protected with an authentication code.
May 25 18:42:44 <spaetz> but when I'm in the car, it's really hard to see the relevant numbers
May 25 18:42:55 <mickey|zzZZzz> ST1: yes
May 25 18:43:17 <ST1> mickey|zzZZzz : so ... if my sim card is protected by a sim code , that won't work , will it ?
May 25 18:43:20 <spaetz> so i would propose to decrease the number of significant digits (I don't need km/h with 10 digits after the comma :) )
May 25 18:43:37 <spaetz> and increase the font size on the other hand, at least for the CellID
May 25 18:43:39 <mickey|zzZZzz> ST1: no, it will still turn on the maximum functionality
May 25 18:43:54 <ST1> let me try
May 25 18:43:58 * mrmoku wonders if spaetz should better look on the road instead... while driving :P
May 25 18:44:03 <spaetz> ideally you would flash the cellID in bold red wwhenever it changes for a few seconds
May 25 18:44:19 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: mmmh, good point. I usually don't look at it, I just start it, and lay it in front of the car
May 25 18:44:28 <mickey|zzZZzz> i will change the API soon and mark SetAntennaPower as deprecated
May 25 18:44:31 <mickey|zzZZzz> it's misleading
May 25 18:44:41 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: i always want to see how often the cell changes
May 25 18:45:08 <spaetz> so this is the most important for me. Making it a bigger font would help already
May 25 18:45:19 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: the GUI needs a serious overhaul anyway. People are asking for more infos (number of cells seen so far, etc...), and I am lacking real estate. Additionaly, the buttons at the bottom are kind of "lost" space
May 25 18:45:34 <spaetz> if it flashed red if changed for a few seconds that would be perfect
May 25 18:45:51 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: be careful, 1. you could become addicted, 2. I don't want to be responsible for a car accident ;-)
May 25 18:46:10 <spaetz> also, i find that I start tangogps in parallel, because I want to know how many satellites it sees if it doesnßt have a 3d fix yet
May 25 18:46:37 <ST1> mickey|zzZZzz: here is the result : dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.AuthFailed: SIM PIN required
May 25 18:46:43 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: what I am thinking about, is sth in the way of Mot Mot Navigator: a complete screen of infos, and when you press you go to a complete grid of buttons to make whatever you like (start, stop, etc.)
May 25 18:46:58 <ST1> maybe should i ignore it with a try ?
May 25 18:47:15 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: I put the FR where the tachometer is, so making the kmh display a little bigger would help prevent an accident :)
May 25 18:47:24 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: interesting idea
May 25 18:47:26 <mickey|zzZZzz> ST1: exactly
May 25 18:47:48 <mickey|zzZZzz> dbus exceptions are not hard errors
May 25 18:47:51 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: someone already requested to have number of satellites in sight
May 25 18:47:54 <mickey|zzZZzz> usually it makes sense to catch them
May 25 18:47:59 <mickey|zzZZzz> and do something else then
May 25 18:48:07 <ST1> mickey|zzZZzz : Thats very confusing indeed :)
May 25 18:48:08 <spaetz> so far I do like that i can reach the buttons easily, but then you donßt need them often---
May 25 18:48:21 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: thanks a lot for your remarks, I add it to the ToDo list.
May 25 18:48:21 <spaetz> yep, no of satellites would be handy.
May 25 18:48:40 <spaetz> no problem, just some random comments and thoughts I had when using it.
May 25 18:49:09 <spaetz> I don't need the no of cells seen. for that I'll download the uploaded data file and check it :)
May 25 18:49:14 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: no it really helps. even if some infos are not interesting me, does not mean they should not be displayed. :-)
May 25 18:49:46 <spaetz> ahh, and your map uses google map
May 25 18:49:55 <spaetz> a free cell map should be using openstreetmap :)
May 25 18:50:00 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: I was on a 600 km trip, and I wanted to know how many cells I had been through. So basically, I found the proposition useful ;-)
May 25 18:50:08 <ST1> mickey|zzZZzz: Incredible !!!! Thanks a lot !!!!
May 25 18:50:22 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: grep your log file afterwards :) ?
May 25 18:50:29 <ST1> mickey|zzZZzz: I wouldn't have found it by myself... that works !
May 25 18:50:44 <stefan_schmidt> re
May 25 18:50:57 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: this has alredy been requested on ML. Nick answered that OSM does not offer all what Google maps offers. :-( as an OSM contributor, sure thing, I already asked him :-)
May 25 18:51:25 <spaetz> It doesn't? what would be misssing?
May 25 18:51:37 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: I will add in log files the number of satellites, just to make your arguments irrelevant :-P
May 25 18:51:47 <spaetz> hehe
May 25 18:51:52 <mickey|zzZZzz> ST1: :)
May 25 18:52:03 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: I don't know. give me a minute, I try to find the email back to have the details of the answer.
May 25 18:52:31 <spaetz> I am the t@h server admin, so if there is anything we need to do to make OSM more useful for openbmap just tell me what you are needing
May 25 18:52:58 <spaetz> I bet openlayers can do it.
May 25 18:53:10 <spaetz> sorry slightly offtopic
May 25 18:53:56 <stefan_schmidt> Who designed the SHR icon theme?
May 25 18:54:09 <stefan_schmidt> I may be in need for some icons and I like them a lot
May 25 18:55:58 <mrmoku> stefan_schmidt, Hire
May 25 18:56:06 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: thanks
May 25 18:56:12 <mrmoku> np :)
May 25 18:57:01 <spaetz> stefan_schmidt: http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=shr.git;a=commitdiff;h=77b48a2cdaeba41f26f1bc18a9046275c819ca5f
May 25 18:57:13 <spaetz> darn, too slow :)
May 25 18:58:01 <stefan_schmidt> :)
May 25 18:58:11 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: also one more thing
May 25 18:58:28 <spaetz> the openbmap website. Do you plan to offer some data dump download?
May 25 18:59:02 <spaetz> like OSM has weekly planet dumps. Always offeing a dump that is not older than a week does sound useful.
May 25 19:00:04 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, xchat and fbreader packages missing in the feeds ;)
May 25 19:00:17 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: also http://realtimeblog.free.fr/cell_map.php gives me server error 500
May 25 19:00:32 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F, xchat does not build :(
May 25 19:00:39 <Sharwin_F> :S
May 25 19:00:45 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F, fbreader I don't remember if we tried... will try now
May 25 19:01:16 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, ok thanks :)
May 25 19:01:51 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: please if you want to discuss this, email Nick, and let me know his answer (about what google maps does and OSM not). He is not on IRC, and barely reads the ML because of lack of time. So I do filter the things ;-)
May 25 19:02:26 <spaetz> ok. see other website issues I posted
May 25 19:02:31 <spaetz> server error 00
May 25 19:02:34 <spaetz> 500
May 25 19:03:34 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: about the server error. free, is a French Internet provider. They offer free space with PHP and mysql, for personnal webpages. That is where the site is, and there is no quality assurance. so sometimes it is down. Their server experiences pbs since yesterday :-(
May 25 19:04:15 <spaetz> ok...
May 25 19:04:30 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: for the download thing, this is in the work, and on top of my (make Nick do) todo list. This is also the mandatory (and they are absolutely right about this) condition to start working together, people from the framework gave me
May 25 19:04:33 * spaetz wonders if some other more reliable place would be willing to host it#
May 25 19:04:55 <spaetz> ok, godd to know you are working on that
May 25 19:05:06 <spaetz> which Nick?
May 25 19:05:16 <spaetz> is there a mailing list?
May 25 19:05:16 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: I already have proposition from shoragan about hosting the service. We have to see how this could work.
May 25 19:05:24 <spaetz> ok, cool
May 25 19:05:34 <spaetz> glad to see all issues are being worked on
May 25 19:05:58 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: Nick is the guy taking care of the server side. I work on the client, and on the d-bus service to get your position out of the data on your phone
May 25 19:06:19 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: there are *no* issues, only possible improvements ;-)
May 25 19:06:39 <spaetz> hehe
May 25 19:06:50 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: a ML about what?
May 25 19:06:56 <spaetz> openbmap
May 25 19:06:57 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07mickey * r0c6c8644ca0c 10alsa-scenario/ (.gitignore configure.ac configure.in): yet more build system cleaning
May 25 19:07:04 <spaetz> I see your forum is pretty empty
May 25 19:07:14 <spaetz> where can I follow what is being worked on :)
May 25 19:08:10 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: euh... mostly here I guess. for the moment this kind of schizophrenic. wiki page is not on our website, but on openmoko for example.
May 25 19:08:21 <spaetz> ok
May 25 19:08:31 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: I have no blog, or never did some kind of: email update what the current status
May 25 19:08:41 * spaetz checks out wiki
May 25 19:08:44 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: only release emails, or answers
May 25 19:09:29 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: if you email Nick about osm/google map issue, please CC me
May 25 19:09:44 <spaetz> what's his mail?
May 25 19:09:50 <spaetz> can you pm it?
May 25 19:09:59 <spaetz> I'll write a mail
May 25 19:11:01 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07mickey * r54fde6a87053 10alsa-scenario/configure.ac: fix AC_INIT
May 25 19:11:34 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: the best way to look at cells is using the kml file in google earth. did you try it?
May 25 19:11:53 <spaetz> no, I don't have google earth installed :(
May 25 19:11:59 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: what means "pm"?
May 25 19:12:16 <spaetz> private message, so it won't show up in the public irc log
May 25 19:12:26 <spaetz>  /msg spaetz blahblah
May 25 19:12:38 <spaetz> or whatever your irc client uses
May 25 19:12:42 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: it does run under Linux ;-) it is really nice, you can see cell coverage in 3d, you have a network link which gets updated automatically with last data
May 25 19:13:02 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: ok thanks
May 25 19:13:09 <spaetz> I know, i am just allergic to google map products :)
May 25 19:13:36 <spaetz> although they are really good
May 25 19:14:21 * mrmoku has the same allergy :)
May 25 19:14:52 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rf160907c9d12 10/libfsoframework/ (fsoframework/fsoframework-2.0.vapi vapi/libascenario.vapi): fsoframework: libascenario: add [NoArrayLength] to list()
May 25 19:15:25 <spaetz> hehe
May 25 19:19:09 <TAsn> quick, how do I say I don't speak german in german?
May 25 19:19:37 <Flyser> TAsn: Ich spreche kein Deutsch.
May 25 19:19:54 <TAsn> thanks.
May 25 19:23:21 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: ok found it. or more precisely not found it. The question had been raised osm/google maps. and I thought Nick did answer this. But in fact it must has been only to me in a talk
May 25 19:23:32 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: so please, ask him the details
May 25 19:23:34 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, HELP you left my screen session with an open nano... what am I supposed to do now? ;)
May 25 19:23:42 * spaetz is tempted to teach TAsn some bad swearwords :)
May 25 19:23:50 <spaetz> German bad swearwords
May 25 19:23:52 <TAsn> spaetz, hehe ;)
May 25 19:23:55 <TAsn> yeah, I got you.
May 25 19:24:00 <TAsn> Israeli do that a lot
May 25 19:24:08 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: sent a mail
May 25 19:24:10 <spaetz> hehe
May 25 19:24:28 <spaetz> close it?
May 25 19:25:01 <TAsn> telling foreigners that "hello there" translates to hebrew as "i'm a ho"
May 25 19:25:13 <TAsn> I mean, they teach them the i'm a ho
May 25 19:25:20 <TAsn> in hebrew
May 25 19:25:24 <TAsn> instead of hello there
May 25 19:25:27 <TAsn> I hope you know what I meant :)
May 25 19:25:39 * mrmoku notes to never ask an Israeli how to say something in hebrew...
May 25 19:26:17 <TAsn> mrmoku, You can trust me
May 25 19:26:38 * TAsn is thinking about future possibilities.
May 25 19:26:52 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: good, got it. Will ping Nick about this. ping me if no news about this
May 25 19:27:26 * mrmoku wonders if we should do a core team vote about TAsn's trustability ;)
May 25 19:27:58 <TAsn> mrmoku, you should. :)
May 25 19:28:07 <TAsn> at least concerning the hebrew translation...
May 25 19:29:40 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07mickey * rb9a240f31216 10alsa-scenario/libascenario.pc.in: 
May 25 19:29:40 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: .pc file: add -lasound; FIXME: Should gather this at configure time, since
May 25 19:29:40 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: we can also link to libsalsa
May 25 19:30:14 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F, fbreader hit the feed
May 25 19:30:22 <mrmoku> and yes... I saw it adding the patch :P
May 25 19:41:52 * spaetz wonders whether he should press the "i'm a ho" or "i'm a jerk" button on an incoming call when selecting hebrew locales
May 25 19:44:18 <mwester> "My hovercraft is full of eels"
May 25 19:46:15 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #483 (select contact with keyboard (soft/hardware)) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/483>
May 25 19:47:18 <mrmoku> mwester, would that be accept or reject?
May 25 19:47:36 * mwester goes back to finish up a WinXP install. :p  Then he'll have time to mess again with attempting to build SHR (of course, he had LOTS of time all weekend, but it seems everyone was too busy drinking (and attending a conference)!)
May 25 19:50:46 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: ping
May 25 19:50:58 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: pong
May 25 19:51:24 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: Who the hell buzzfixed your FR?
May 25 19:51:36 <alphaone> Looked like hell and was broken already.
May 25 19:51:45 <mrmoku> mwester, drinking... yeah... coffee though. I had *two* beers the whole weekend ;)
May 25 19:51:55 <alphaone> Is fixed now, though
May 25 19:52:05 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: some bad guy I know
May 25 19:52:14 <alphaone> plus 22µF for C1009
May 25 19:52:18 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: can't do anything about it
May 25 19:52:24 <alphaone> And GSM is still working
May 25 19:52:24 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: sweet
May 25 19:52:27 <stefan_schmidt> :)
May 25 19:52:30 <alphaone> :-)
May 25 19:52:36 * mickey|zzZZzz hugs alphaone for a fixed #1024
May 25 19:52:46 <alphaone> mickey|zzZZzz: Did tests already?
May 25 19:52:53 <mickeyl> doing it atm.
May 25 19:52:58 <alphaone> mickeyl: great
May 25 19:52:58 <mickeyl> looks really good so far
May 25 19:53:32 <alphaone> please report either to me and I'll forward or to werner, joerg and dieter as well
May 25 19:54:51 <mickeyl> will do
May 25 19:54:56 <alphaone> great, thanks
May 25 19:57:07 <wpwrak> mickeyl: wow, after all these years ! how will you survive without #1024 ? :)
May 25 19:57:21 <mickeyl> heh, well
May 25 19:57:53 <mickeyl> can't wait to do my next standbytime test
May 25 19:58:00 <mickeyl> will launch that tomorrow
May 25 19:58:21 <agg1n1> hi, i have a lot of free time now for some months, so i want to contribute something to shr :) is there anything where i could try to help/develop? :)
May 25 19:58:47 <mrmoku> agg1n1, what are your special interests and capabilities?
May 25 19:59:06 <mrmoku> we always need people with lots of time :)
May 25 19:59:17 <spaetz> hehe
May 25 19:59:36 <spaetz> people complain that navit is outdated
May 25 19:59:51 <agg1n1> mrmoku: i have some little coding skills in c++ and python
May 25 19:59:59 <spaetz> KaZeR: ping? what's a good revision that we could use?
May 25 20:06:12 <mrmoku> agg1n1, does c++ include c?
May 25 20:06:32 <spaetz> or vala?
May 25 20:06:34 <spaetz> :)
May 25 20:06:35 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb158eca1bc69 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/alsa_audio/plugin.vala: fsodevice: alsa_audio: honor loop parameter in sound playback
May 25 20:06:37 * mrmoku wonders if we should have some 'what needs to be done' list on the wiki...
May 25 20:06:52 <spaetz> mrmoku: yep, or as trac tickets :)
May 25 20:07:02 <spaetz> with nice milestones that show progress
May 25 20:07:15 <agg1n1> mrmoku: c is also ok :) 
May 25 20:07:29 <spaetz> agg1n1: you are hired :)
May 25 20:09:40 <mrmoku> agg1n1, did you already take a look at some of our code?
May 25 20:10:39 <agg1n1> mrmoku: i took a look at libframeworkd-phonegui-efl
May 25 20:10:57 <mrmoku> agg1n1, good :)
May 25 20:11:12 <mrmoku> agg1n1, do you no some elementary?
May 25 20:11:16 <mrmoku> s/no/know/
May 25 20:11:18 <bzzbot> mrmoku meant: agg1n1, do you know some elementary?
May 25 20:12:21 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #482 (Adding "preferred" contacts screen) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/482#comment:5>
May 25 20:13:34 <agg1n1> mrmoku: yes, i ported the minesweep game from qt to elementary :>
May 25 20:13:35 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #483 (select contact with keyboard (soft/hardware)) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/483#comment:1>
May 25 20:13:50 <mrmoku> agg1n1, great :D
May 25 20:14:11 <mrmoku> agg1n1, one thing which would be outstanding is to port our lists to elementary genlists
May 25 20:14:23 <mrmoku> right now they are customized etk lists
May 25 20:14:34 <mrmoku> would that be something you're interested in?
May 25 20:15:18 <agg1n1> sounds like fun :)
May 25 20:15:51 <mrmoku> agg1n1, maybe you should work on efl2 though...
May 25 20:16:22 <mrmoku> it is practically a forked efl with opimd support for contacts (and maybe messages soon if I come back to coding from building :()
May 25 20:17:01 <TAsn> how much does the moko cost?
May 25 20:17:16 <agg1n1> mrmoku: ok i will take a look at these things and hope i can help :)
May 25 20:17:19 <TAsn> I remember 300$ (I mean I remember a price drop lately)
May 25 20:17:25 <mrmoku> agg1n1, great :)
May 25 20:17:25 <TAsn> though I can't find nothing.
May 25 20:18:18 <mrmoku> TAsn, from pulster it's 249 €
May 25 20:18:25 <mickeyl> but hurry up...
May 25 20:18:48 <TAsn> mrmoku, tuxbrain is 269€
May 25 20:18:53 <TAsn> just found it, thanks :)
May 25 20:19:02 <TAsn> though all the us stores sell for 400$
May 25 20:19:03 <TAsn> weird.
May 25 20:19:29 <mrmoku> TAsn, goldelico.de offers the GTA02a6 for 279 € and the A7 for 299 €
May 25 20:19:42 <TAsn> cool. ;)
May 25 20:19:59 <mrmoku> TAsn, you could save 20 € and get a spare battery by getting it buzz-fixed ;)
May 25 20:20:12 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: heh
May 25 20:20:13 <TAsn> mrmoku, actually, in tuxbrain it's pretty good moko11 firmware and bugfixed...
May 25 20:20:17 <BluesLee> it was only 200 euros some months ago
May 25 20:20:23 <BluesLee> what happened?
May 25 20:20:31 <spaetz> I want my phone buzz fixed. no one in switzerland who could do that?
May 25 20:20:32 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Time to buy the complete stock?
May 25 20:20:47 <mickeyl> actually
May 25 20:20:49 <TAsn> Blu3, that's what I remember
May 25 20:20:50 <mickeyl> looks like you can't anymore
May 25 20:20:54 <TAsn> BluesLee, *
May 25 20:21:01 <mickeyl> webshop seems closed
May 25 20:21:12 <mickeyl> you probably have to stop by in TPE to buy more
May 25 20:21:15 <TAsn> mickeyl, moko webshop?
May 25 20:21:19 * stefan_schmidt bids 1000eur including shipping
May 25 20:21:21 <TAsn> I jsut went there...
May 25 20:21:28 <mickeyl> where?
May 25 20:21:33 <mickeyl> url, that is?
May 25 20:21:34 <TAsn> sec
May 25 20:21:53 <stefan_schmidt> lol, nice front page
May 25 20:22:08 <TAsn> http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner
May 25 20:22:12 <mickeyl> well
May 25 20:22:15 <TAsn> no sold out notices like they had.
May 25 20:22:25 <mickeyl> this URI is no longer linked from the front page or is it?
May 25 20:22:57 <mickeyl> openmoko.com -> products leads to the distributors list
May 25 20:22:59 <BluesLee> what are the results of the fsoshrudcon jury?
May 25 20:23:05 <mickeyl> BluesLee: 10 points
May 25 20:23:09 <BluesLee> hehe
May 25 20:23:14 <mickeyl> BluesLee: and the winner is...
May 25 20:23:16 <mickeyl> FSO 2.0
May 25 20:23:19 * stefan__ wonders who controls his internet connections that it just stopped when I start talking
May 25 20:23:20 <mickeyl> w/ SHR 1.2
May 25 20:23:35 <BluesLee> that means?
May 25 20:23:39 <stefan__> mickeyl: greet mickeyl 2.0 rom me
May 25 20:23:51 <mickeyl> stefan__: will do. he's fine
May 25 20:23:59 <mickeyl> BluesLee: the future is bright. 
May 25 20:24:05 <mickeyl> BluesLee: lots of motivation, lots of plans
May 25 20:24:12 <mickeyl> we'll work closer together
May 25 20:24:15 <BluesLee> rewritting stuff?
May 25 20:24:17 <mickeyl> and have less duplicated work
May 25 20:24:26 <BluesLee> thats fine
May 25 20:24:27 <mickeyl> rewriting, some.
May 25 20:24:34 * stefan__ has to lock up who commited the new front page
May 25 20:24:55 <BluesLee> shr should speed up things
May 25 20:25:50 <stefan__> the distributor page is back actually
May 25 20:27:05 <TAsn> mrmoku, I thought you'll be fixing the phonegui package not to write the stupid phonegui.conf! :) (or was it someone else who said he'll do it?)
May 25 20:27:40 <mrmoku> TAsn, ha... you forgot to add a ticket ;)
May 25 20:27:47 <spaetz> hehe
May 25 20:27:48 * mrmoku forgot that :(
May 25 20:28:04 <TAsn> no, it's my fault
May 25 20:28:08 <TAsn> I should have opened a ticket
May 25 20:28:12 <spaetz> what's wrong with writing a phonegui.conf?
May 25 20:28:13 <TAsn> mrmoku, is a ticket still wanted?
May 25 20:28:18 <TAsn> spaetz:
May 25 20:28:25 <TAsn>  *** frameworkd-phonegui.conf (Y/I/N/O/D) [default=N] ? 
May 25 20:28:27 <TAsn> that!
May 25 20:28:29 <mrmoku> TAsn, better add one... just in case :P
May 25 20:28:34 <TAsn> mrmoku, :)
May 25 20:28:39 <spaetz> ok, I see.
May 25 20:29:41 <spaetz> BTW, current xset blank command won't turn off the screen. The content is still visible. just the backlight is turned off
May 25 20:29:54 <mrmoku> BluesLee, speed is the next important thing... after a reliably working phone
May 25 20:30:02 <spaetz> and I read that a lot of energy savings comes from actually turning off the screen
May 25 20:30:24 <spaetz> I read, meaning, some FR specific testing by Harald Welte
May 25 20:33:36 <TAsn> #484
May 25 20:33:38 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #484 (Don't put configuration files in the packages.) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/484>
May 25 20:39:49 <BluesLee> mrmoku: thats totally correct, its not reliable yet
May 25 20:41:00 <TAsn> hehe
May 25 20:41:05 <TAsn> funny and weird at the same time
May 25 20:41:22 <TAsn> the biggest news site in the country (that also has a product sales section)
May 25 20:41:39 <TAsn> just offered in the main page an iphone for sale, and the preview picture was of a moko
May 25 20:41:49 <TAsn> (gta01)
May 25 20:42:09 <TAsn> we don't even have an official distributor here...
May 25 20:44:14 <spaetz> TAsn: the one thing is that if important stuff changes in the config file
May 25 20:44:26 <spaetz> people will have to manually nuke their old one
May 25 20:44:29 <TAsn> spaetz, have you read my ticket?
May 25 20:44:35 <spaetz> yep, skeleton
May 25 20:44:38 <spaetz> dir
May 25 20:44:41 <TAsn> will copy if necessary!
May 25 20:44:46 <TAsn> major change = necessary
May 25 20:44:50 <TAsn> furthermore, you can patch
May 25 20:44:51 <TAsn> ...
May 25 20:45:02 <TAsn> i.e just change the relevant part if not user configured...
May 25 20:45:03 <spaetz> yes, that means we have to actually work on upgrade paths :)
May 25 20:45:13 <TAsn> spaetz, as discussed in the ML.
May 25 20:45:25 <TAsn> you can still emulate the same behavior if you want
May 25 20:45:28 <TAsn> though it's bad!
May 25 20:45:32 <TAsn> just let the user be.
May 25 20:45:32 <spaetz> yep
May 25 20:45:34 <TAsn> I know my configs
May 25 20:45:37 <TAsn> I like em.
May 25 20:45:40 <spaetz> heh
May 25 20:46:28 <TAsn> btw, screenshot of the major news site I talked about, if anyone is interested: http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8527/mokoiphoneynet.png
May 25 20:52:30 <spaetz> night all
May 25 20:53:05 <methril> night
May 25 21:01:31 <wpwrak> btw, a silly question for the SHR experts: how much does your work actually depend on angus' ?
May 25 21:04:36 <stefan_schmidt> wpwrak: Without him we will be able to build without being forced to have en_CA locales
May 25 21:04:55 <TAsn> wpwrak, [OT] who's angus?
May 25 21:05:01 <stefan_schmidt> wpwrak: More serious. Not much depend on him for SHR
May 25 21:05:04 <wpwrak> stefan_schmidt: ;-))
May 25 21:05:07 <spaetz> I don't know how it is with our OE branch, but until then we directly inherited his stuff
May 25 21:05:12 <stefan_schmidt> wpwrak: They mostly did the work on their own
May 25 21:05:18 <wpwrak> stefan_schmidt: okay, that's what i thought. thanks.
May 25 21:05:38 <stefan_schmidt> TAsn: build system guy from om
May 25 21:05:48 <spaetz> so we benefitted from some stuff he does
May 25 21:05:57 <stefan_schmidt> spaetz: you inherit some things from the fso branch, indeed
May 25 21:06:02 <wpwrak> TAsn: nytowl. he worked on OM2009. he actually did a *lot* of work. but i somehow figured that it wasn't really relevant in the end, sad as it is to have to say that
May 25 21:06:10 <spaetz> stefan_schmidt: yep:)
May 25 21:06:40 <TAsn> wpwrak, I know the nick.
May 25 21:07:02 <stefan_schmidt> wpwrak: He did a lot work, yes. Some good, some not. And for sure sad that we have to take care of the distro business again.
May 25 21:07:09 <stefan_schmidt> I really hoped that would go away.
May 25 21:07:19 <spaetz> is he gone?
May 25 21:07:21 <TAsn> wasn't he here an hour ago?
May 25 21:07:25 <Deubeuliou> hi
May 25 21:07:33 <stefan_schmidt> Anyway, plans where done just this WE how FSO and SHR join forces for this
May 25 21:07:37 <TAsn> spaetz, exactly what I was about to ask, my last question was the prep work.
May 25 21:08:04 <stefan_schmidt> spaetz: gone from this channel or gone from om?
May 25 21:08:08 <spaetz> TAsn: hehe. you are just more diplomatic
May 25 21:08:26 <spaetz> from om. You talk in past tense of him
May 25 21:08:31 <alphaone> Anyone is welcome to build and test the openembedded shr/import branch
May 25 21:08:40 <dos1|neo> what's with angus? does he left from OM?
May 25 21:08:48 <TAsn> hehe rumors spread fast.
May 25 21:08:52 <stefan_schmidt> spaetz: you read the community list?
May 25 21:08:56 <dos1|neo> ;D
May 25 21:09:07 <spaetz> nope. just browsing from time to time
May 25 21:09:18 <spaetz> too many lists, too many trolls
May 25 21:09:23 <TAsn> spaetz, ++
May 25 21:09:25 <TAsn> that's what I said
May 25 21:09:36 <stefan_schmidt> But also infos from time to time
May 25 21:09:37 * spaetz high-fives TAsn 
May 25 21:09:46 <TAsn> I have enough spam in my inbox (viagra and internet brides) no need for more...
May 25 21:09:57 <Blu3> how can i request the virtual keyboard pop up/activate within pygtk/python?
May 25 21:10:03 <spaetz> stefan_schmidt: yep, that's why I try to browse through from time to time :)
May 25 21:10:20 <TAsn> stefan_schmidt, if you'll be able to write something that filters the dirt, you'll be a millionaire.
May 25 21:10:21 <stefan_schmidt> spaetz: maybe browse now and look for actual mails
May 25 21:10:28 * TAsn high-fives spaetz back
May 25 21:10:36 <TAsn> spaetz, sorry for leaving you hanging for so long
May 25 21:10:42 <stefan_schmidt> TAsn: My dirt filter is ^r in mutt
May 25 21:10:51 <TAsn> I'm tired, I'm falling asleep on the keyboard
May 25 21:10:54 <TAsn> stefan_schmidt, huh? :)
May 25 21:10:59 <spaetz> TAsn: so am I :)
May 25 21:11:05 * spaetz checks community list archive
May 25 21:11:08 <TAsn> spaetz, time to go to bed?
May 25 21:11:19 <TAsn> community list has even more spam than anywhere else
May 25 21:11:24 <TAsn> I'm talking about shr-user
May 25 21:11:35 <TAsn> which had plenty of spam before the move to the new ML
May 25 21:11:45 <TAsn> I guess the spammers didn't bother to move.
May 25 21:12:10 <TAsn> anyhow, night, going to sort out some viagra mail, I wonder if that ML has an archive...
May 25 21:12:26 <wpwrak> TAsn: the viagra list ? :)
May 25 21:12:41 <stefan_schmidt> damn, you guys find my secret list
May 25 21:12:52 <TAsn> wpwrak, they are sending that to a list (which they gathered from somewhere)
May 25 21:12:57 <stefan_schmidt> I hoped to get money through the SPAM thing and build an open phone
May 25 21:13:08 <TAsn> stefan_schmidt, hehe ;)
May 25 21:13:27 <TAsn> well I support the cause, so all means are "kosher"
May 25 21:13:29 <TAsn> night. ;)
May 25 21:13:37 <stefan_schmidt> TAsn: night
May 25 21:15:13 <spaetz> mmh, visit at openmoko thread
May 25 21:17:01 <spaetz> ok, that was OM-the-company then?!
May 25 21:17:24 <spaetz> well, they are going to be in the history books (at least the nerdy ones)
May 25 21:18:29 <spaetz> really gone to sleep now
May 25 21:18:45 <stefan_schmidt> Well, I haven't been there. I don't know. I just hope that anyone who is left will make a public announcement. Or we will get tons of rumors.
May 25 21:18:48 <mrmoku> alphaone, I'm at 4540 of 7197 now :)
May 25 21:18:58 <wpwrak> spaetz: naw, the obituaries are still a bit premature
May 25 21:18:59 <stefan_schmidt> spaetz: night
May 25 21:19:16 <stefan_schmidt> wpwrak: yeah, some facts would help
May 25 21:19:28 <alphaone> mrmoku: Great
May 25 21:19:35 <alphaone> I'm retrying here as well
May 25 21:19:37 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #484 (Don't put configuration files in the packages.) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/484#comment:1>
May 25 21:19:40 <alphaone> with updated bitbake
May 25 21:20:37 <mrmoku> alphaone, has some interesting changes (bitbake) ?
May 25 21:22:22 <alphaone> mrmoku: Not sure
May 25 21:22:31 <alphaone> I got parsing errors before, so maybe :-)
May 25 21:22:53 <mrmoku> ahh, ok
May 25 21:23:22 <mrmoku> alphaone, I added another patch to our overlay :(
May 25 21:23:28 <mrmoku> to make vala-native build as supposed
May 25 21:23:32 <alphaone> okay
May 25 21:23:48 <alphaone> ah, but that's not in oe yet?
May 25 21:24:43 <mrmoku> alphaone, I have no commit access yet and Ainulindale was not around...
May 25 21:25:16 <mrmoku> it is in the shr-overlay at shr-project.org... in the shr/import branch
May 25 21:25:51 <alphaone> mrmoku: Ah, okay
May 25 21:26:13 <alphaone> hey mirko-paroli 
May 25 21:26:37 <mirko-paroli> hej alphaone
May 25 21:27:02 * onen|openBmap should get his wiki page out of openomoko wiki and move it to his own website
May 25 21:29:55 * mrmoku just cloned paroli and is going to take a look now :)
May 25 21:31:23 * mrmoku is wondering if mirko-paroli should pack his git repo :P
May 25 21:31:34 <mrmoku> ahh finished :)
May 25 21:32:02 * mirko-paroli is already scared of mrmoku's verdict
May 25 21:33:07 <mrmoku> nahh... I'm not even in grade to judge python code :)
May 25 21:33:24 <mirko-paroli> hehe
May 25 21:33:26 <mrmoku> want just to get a grasp of the architecture
May 25 21:33:28 <mirko-paroli> i wouldn't be too sure ;)
May 25 21:36:41 <onen|openBmap> pfff, so instead of publicly stating what is going on, om will let rumors spread like fire.
May 25 21:37:01 * onen|openBmap will never understand om PR, management, and strategy (if any)
May 25 21:39:56 <alphaone> mrmoku: Are you building the images with ENTERPRISE_DISTRO="1"?
May 25 21:40:57 <spaetz> onen|openBmap: agreed. bad pr handling
May 25 21:41:43 <m0nt0> hola!
May 25 21:41:55 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: by the way, I answered your email, to precise some points. But I have not been in touch with Nick so far. I let you know when I know more
May 25 21:42:44 * onen|openBmap prays for stefan_schmidt to find out why GSM does not work on M800
May 25 21:43:09 <onen|openBmap> m0nt0: hi
May 25 21:43:23 <m0nt0> hi onen|openBmap 
May 25 21:43:35 <mrmoku> m0nt0, hey... kids sleeping? :P
May 25 21:43:36 <stefan_schmidt> onen|openBmap: oh well, don't hold your breath
May 25 21:43:46 <m0nt0> yes, me too :D
May 25 21:44:19 <m0nt0> need to fix the ita forum
May 25 21:44:27 <m0nt0> damned spammers
May 25 21:44:28 <onen|openBmap> stefan_schmidt: oh you sound pessimistic
May 25 21:44:54 <alphaone> onen|openBmap: Well, both stefan and harald have sunk some considerable time into that problem...
May 25 21:45:05 <mrmoku> m0nt0, hehe, know that... daddies are always in danger to fall asleep before the kids while bringing them to bed :)
May 25 21:45:08 <onen|openBmap> stefan_schmidt: I don't care not to have choice, but we need at least one device to make our software run :-S
May 25 21:45:12 <stefan_schmidt> onen|openBmap: well, we already spent a lot time on it. We will spent some more, but we are running out of ideas
May 25 21:45:27 <alphaone> onen|openBmap: ACK
May 25 21:45:35 <alphaone> More devices are necessary
May 25 21:45:45 <onen|openBmap> stefan_schmidt: alphaone: yeah, I know, and I thank them for this
May 25 21:45:53 <stefan_schmidt> And we work on that. Just not as fast as everybody is hoping
May 25 21:46:01 <onen|openBmap> stefan_schmidt: alphaone: what about the new kid on the block, Flow?
May 25 21:46:21 <alphaone> onen|openBmap: It's not a product per se
May 25 21:46:46 <alphaone> Probably mechanically unstable even if you manage to build a nice case for it
May 25 21:47:05 <stefan_schmidt> onen|openBmap: In my opinion it is pretty bad to have the pcb stacked together that way. Mechanic my be to fragile. Also big and completely unknown how it performs as phones.
May 25 21:47:21 <onen|openBmap> alphaone: stefan_schmidt: ok. I have no idea about electronics...
May 25 21:47:22 <stefan_schmidt> Nothing I pay > 1000$ just for testing
May 25 21:47:28 <alphaone> So we have 1) OpenEZX which is mostly supported by now, but EOL
May 25 21:47:45 <wpwrak> alphaone: do actually all those boards fit into the case ? the case seems fairly compact.
May 25 21:47:59 <alphaone> 2) Glofiish where you don't know when GSM will work
May 25 21:48:03 <alphaone> wpwrak: No idea
May 25 21:48:18 <stefan_schmidt> wpwrak: Buy one, send it over and I tell you. ;)
May 25 21:49:18 <alphaone> 3) HTC Touch Diamond which suffers from all problems anit-vendor ports suffer. Additionally to that the people working on the kernel only seem to care about android and not GNU/Linux
May 25 21:50:09 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: On 3 I'm more worried about understanding the hw. If there is a driver it can be adapted to standard kernel interfaces.
May 25 21:50:29 <alphaone> 4) The G1 looks promising in that many things are provided in source. I must admit I haven't looked closely at it so I don't know what work has to be done. Unfortunately a Developer version costs much more than I'm willing to spend.
May 25 21:50:37 <onen|openBmap> alphaone: 4) the omnia, which Harald has spotted which could be a possible platform
May 25 21:50:37 <stefan_schmidt> But for this the knowledge is needed. And gathering this takes ages for anti-vendor ports
May 25 21:51:05 <stefan_schmidt> onen|openBmap: yes. Need to poke him if he did some tests.
May 25 21:51:05 <alphaone> Omnia, yes. But too many unknowns for now to judge how that fits in.
May 25 21:51:16 <tmzt> the only person working on kernel primarily for android that I know about is dzo
May 25 21:51:17 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: (understanding the hw) true
May 25 21:51:19 <stefan_schmidt> He should have a device and a jtag adpater for it by now
May 25 21:52:03 <tmzt> which Omnia, the pxa3xx version? no idea on what radio that uses or how to interface it
May 25 21:52:07 <alphaone> I really would like it if someone could take a close look at a G1
May 25 21:52:27 <alphaone> or lend me one
May 25 21:52:36 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: yes, pxa3xx omnia. quallcomm modem with dual port ram with the pxa
May 25 21:53:00 <tmzt> most of what we know about the G1 applies to the other htc msm devices, it's differences in the radio firmware (amss) that make it difficult
May 25 21:53:18 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: A first good step would be to find out if there is anything binray needed for the modem communication. Be it in kernel or userspace
May 25 21:53:24 <tmzt> stefan_schmidt: right, I remember reading that now, probably your webblog
May 25 21:54:01 <tmzt> on G1? the ril that's shipped with the G1 is closed, but there is no reason an open ril or something like ogsmd won't work
May 25 21:54:21 <tmzt> the AT commands are through a shared memory tty with GPL driver in the kernel
May 25 21:54:27 <alphaone> And they are talking at
May 25 21:54:40 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: hmm
May 25 21:54:52 <alphaone> So why has noone played with that yet?
May 25 21:55:01 <stefan_schmidt> that would at least allow to start communicating with it
May 25 21:55:19 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: nobody knows :)
May 25 21:55:39 <tmzt> as to why nobody has put something other than android directly on g1, I don't know, I've been asking for months
May 25 21:55:52 <tmzt> I decided not to get one and got cdma touch pro instead
May 25 21:55:52 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: Do you know if there are different msm modem versions? One that speaks AT and one that speaks a binary proto?
May 25 21:56:14 <stefan_schmidt> I hear a lot stuff about a binary proto with frames for the msm modems
May 25 21:56:16 <tmzt> I have had no problems with debian and now gentoo-arm on my touch pro
May 25 21:56:27 <stefan_schmidt> Not sure if it can be enabled with any firmware
May 25 21:56:32 <tmzt> there are many different amss versions for msm, older and newer
May 25 21:56:48 <stefan_schmidt> hmm, ok
May 25 21:56:59 <tmzt> mostly vendor specific, like the calypso was "customized" for om
May 25 21:57:29 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: ok, but that are smaller additions. I talk about a complete different protocol to talk to it.
May 25 21:58:05 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: Some bird told me that a big cellphone company uses a userspace lib that talks to the modem in such a proto.
May 25 21:58:28 <stefan_schmidt> I just don't know which modem version. I guess it's not even released hardware
May 25 21:59:49 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: Another option for a G1, next to the one I told you at lunch, would be to ask harald to lend us his device
May 25 21:59:57 <tmzt> we have verified the release htc msm devices are AT command based, no idea what you are referring to
May 25 22:00:07 <alphaone> okay, some bird might be able to organize a G1 developer phone
May 25 22:00:32 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: He didn't get the developer version, did he?
May 25 22:00:35 <stefan_schmidt> to many birds. They are loud, especially in the morning ;)
May 25 22:00:56 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: no, the t-mobile directly from tw :)
May 25 22:00:58 * mrmoku noticed that while sleeping in the car :P
May 25 22:01:13 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: okay
May 25 22:01:21 <alphaone> I'd prefer developer phone for now
May 25 22:01:27 <stefan_schmidt> tmzt: ok, nevermind then. May be a chip that is not on the market yet or a special firmware for the device maker
May 25 22:01:36 <stefan_schmidt> mrmoku: :)
May 25 22:01:47 <alphaone> We can always exploit via crafted png after FSO is running on the device :-)
May 25 22:02:07 <stefan_schmidt> alphaone: heh
May 25 22:02:11 <tmzt> as for exploits, the general process is:
May 25 22:02:26 <tmzt> downgrade to an ealier nbh called rc29 or rc7
May 25 22:02:44 <tmzt> which has a root hole when it listens of the /dev/console even when the gui is running for root commands
May 25 22:02:49 <tmzt> enter telnetd
May 25 22:02:53 <alphaone> ah, right
May 25 22:03:00 <tmzt> use flash_image to flash recovery.img
May 25 22:03:06 <tmzt> use that to flash any update.zip
May 25 22:03:23 <alphaone> sounds really easy :-)
May 25 22:03:49 <alphaone> And for the downgrade you need to create a special unlock sd card image?
May 25 22:04:27 <tmzt> only if you have the eu version, there is no nbh for those with the root hole
May 25 22:08:07 <onen|openBmap> stefan_schmidt: do you have both M and X 800? I am wondering if you have only one model, if the other may bring sth helpful for your GSM hunt...
May 25 22:08:46 <stefan_schmidt> onen|openBmap: Only the M800 here. But we also tried with Haralds X800. Same problem
May 25 22:08:58 <onen|openBmap> stefan_schmidt: :-(
May 25 22:10:24 <onen|openBmap> ok guys good night
May 25 22:10:32 <mrmoku> onen|openBmap, night
May 25 22:10:36 <stefan_schmidt> nigh onen|openBmap 
May 25 22:10:50 * stefan_schmidt should also go to bed now. night folks
May 25 22:10:58 * onen|openBmap crosses his fingers and druck den Daumen for brighter people (yes you stefan_schmidt :-P ) to get GSM working
May 25 22:11:17 <mrmoku> mass emBEDding :)
May 25 22:11:20 <mrmoku> gnight
May 25 22:11:28 <onen|openBmap> mrmoku|away: :-D
May 25 22:19:35 <Zorkman> you guys read tghe mail from sven klomp on the community list?
May 25 22:19:50 <Zorkman> "It seems to me that almost everyone just got layed of in this very meeting."
May 25 22:20:17 <Zorkman> though werner said "it's still too early to draw too many conclusions from what you saw."
May 25 22:24:27 <methril> i've to go to be too, but i'm finishing to read e-mails
May 25 22:32:13 <wpwrak> at the moment, the company i'm most worried about is the one that's supposed to fix the hot water pump in the building in which i live. how water has quite reliably failed for three weekends in the last month, and today is the second failure in this long weekend. i like cold showers about as much as the average cat does :-(
May 25 22:36:44 <DocScrutinizer> spaetz: (xset blank command won't turn off the screen) GREAT!
May 25 22:46:34 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: winter in argentina? ;-)
May 25 22:47:08 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: xset dpms force off?
May 25 22:47:14 <DocScrutinizer> Zorkman: (too early to draw too many conclusions) I don't think we could draw wrong conclusions out of this
May 25 22:47:39 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: btw, did you notice the latest calypso bug? ;)
May 25 22:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> huh? yet another one??? darn!
May 25 22:49:12 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: what is it this time?
May 25 22:49:14 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2291 -- AT+CCLK sometimes returns corrupted time
May 25 22:51:31 <wpwrak> DocMobilizer: why would the hot water bother to fail if it's nice and warm outside ? naw, it waited for the cold :-(
May 25 22:51:43 <DocScrutinizer> pfff, I don't care. Couldn't care less. We got no RTC in calypso
May 25 22:51:52 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: no rtc in calypso?
May 25 22:52:16 <DocScrutinizer> we got no backup bat, so no real RTC
May 25 22:52:22 <lindi-> ok
May 25 22:52:30 <DocScrutinizer> we got a working RTC in PMU
May 25 22:52:32 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but it seems to drift much less than the pcf50633 one
May 25 22:52:33 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
May 25 22:52:45 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: well, it drifts 1 second every four hours
May 25 22:52:48 <DocScrutinizer> bah, I *really* doubt
May 25 22:53:00 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: you do?
May 25 22:53:31 <DocScrutinizer> my PMU RTC always been *much* more precise than sysclock anyway
May 25 22:53:46 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: can you run the steps detailed in http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2009-May/010161.html  to capture data?
May 25 22:53:56 <DocScrutinizer> unless corrupted by a messed-up /etc/adjtime
May 25 22:54:04 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: if you plot my "clock.log" using the gnuplot command you'll see how my pcf50633 drifts
May 25 22:54:25 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but /etc/adjtime does not come in to play when I read rtc and don't set it?
May 25 22:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> haha
May 25 22:54:48 <DocScrutinizer> read `man hwclock`
May 25 22:54:57 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but status is 64
May 25 22:55:08 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: meaning that kernel should not sync system clock to hardware clock
May 25 22:55:18 <DocScrutinizer> the worst bug I ever seen was writing sysclock to RTC on sys-shutdown
May 25 22:55:33 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i fixed that and i did not shutdown during this test period
May 25 22:55:35 <DocScrutinizer> OM did this as well
May 25 22:55:50 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i did not run ntpdate or ntpd or hwclock during the test period
May 25 22:55:58 <DocScrutinizer> you did a `cat /etc/adjtime`?
May 25 22:56:13 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: you want to see that?
May 25 22:56:21 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: it has '-2.872299 1243193233 0.000000 1243193233 UTC'
May 25 22:56:23 <DocScrutinizer> huh, no hwclock? so how did you read out RTC aNYWAY
May 25 22:56:34 <DocScrutinizer> OMG!!!!
May 25 22:56:58 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i read /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/since_epoch
May 25 22:57:19 <DocScrutinizer> pfff, no idea about this sysfs crap
May 25 22:57:40 <DocScrutinizer> use hwclock, use it wisely, and you'll smile
May 25 22:57:47 <lindi-> it's slow :)
May 25 22:57:55 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
May 25 22:58:28 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but I can repeat the tests by having compare-clock-sources.pl run hwclock if you insist
May 25 22:58:53 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but both hwclock and since_epoch seem to have the same time
May 25 22:59:10 <DocScrutinizer> though, wait a minute... IIRC the abobe adjtime says your RTC is ahead of time by 2.87sec every hour
May 25 22:59:59 <vininim> free software time travelling
May 25 22:59:59 * DocScrutinizer does a `man adjtime`
May 25 23:01:08 <DocScrutinizer> Line 1: 3 numbers, separated by blanks: 1) systematic drift  rate  in  seconds  per  day,
May 25 23:01:23 <DocScrutinizer> so looks rather good to me
May 25 23:01:50 <DocScrutinizer> (btw; `man hwclock` /adjtime)
May 25 23:01:56 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yep i read those
May 25 23:02:02 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but i'm not running hwclock during the test period
May 25 23:02:11 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: so it should not cause this drifting?
May 25 23:02:45 <DocScrutinizer> it actually should compensate a drift od 2.87sec/day *if* you used it
May 25 23:03:05 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yep
May 25 23:03:28 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but it's drifting even more than that
May 25 23:03:55 <DocScrutinizer> and, btw, there's absolutely *no* reason the calypso "RTC" should be *any* better than that
May 25 23:04:08 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but it seems to be
May 25 23:05:01 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: so do a decent calibration: remove all "hwclock --systohc" calls from any scripts - especially init.d scripts
May 25 23:05:09 <DocScrutinizer> adjust your systime
May 25 23:05:19 <DocScrutinizer> do a hwclock --systohc
May 25 23:05:44 <DocScrutinizer> don't forget to remove /etc/adjtime prior to that
May 25 23:06:12 <DocScrutinizer> then next day adjust your systime again, do `hwclock --systohc` again
May 25 23:06:31 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i'd rather not write to the rtc at all
May 25 23:06:46 <DocScrutinizer> you get a pretty decent /etc/adjtime, and a quite accurate time from hwclock each time you use it
May 25 23:06:54 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: since I could just only read from it and compensate by using offset and scaling
May 25 23:07:17 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: every time i write to rtc there is uncertainty in when exactly the write gets through
May 25 23:07:40 <DocScrutinizer> well, that's the supposed method to cope with RTC misadjustment
May 25 23:08:10 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: you usually shouldn't do that (write to RTC)
May 25 23:08:31 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yep, so i'm writing some program that'll convert the wrong rtc time to correct time
May 25 23:08:39 <DocScrutinizer> you should do it twice to create a /etc/adjtime
May 25 23:08:53 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i don't like hwclock --adjust since it writes to hardware clock
May 25 23:09:45 <mirko-paroli> c y'all
May 25 23:09:50 <DocScrutinizer> then if by any means your RTC is wrong due to DST or missing bat, use `hwclcock --systohc --noadjfile`
May 25 23:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> ahhh
May 25 23:10:54 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: please RTFM
May 25 23:10:58 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: still. can't I always just maintain two values A and B in a file and then set_system_time((get_rtc_time()-A)*B) without ever having to write to RTC
May 25 23:11:02 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i did read it multiple times :)
May 25 23:11:16 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: which part did I misunderstand?
May 25 23:11:39 <DocScrutinizer> sorry you cmpletely lost me 
May 25 23:12:02 <lindi-> sorry :)
May 25 23:12:26 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: 1) do you agree that pcf50633 drifts here one second every four/five hours? ;)
May 25 23:12:46 <DocScrutinizer> whenever you need a correct time, use `hwclock` and you'll get it
May 25 23:13:35 <DocScrutinizer> given you don't mess with `hwclcok --systohc` any other means than the procedure I described above
May 25 23:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> the procedure sketched above involves exactly TWO writes to RTC
May 25 23:14:36 <DocScrutinizer> to calculate systematic drift, and to create a decent /etc/adjtime out of it
May 25 23:14:40 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: and even those I can do without if I manually write /etc/adjtime
May 25 23:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> jou could
May 25 23:15:17 <DocScrutinizer> actually I don't know what's the purpose to do it manually
May 25 23:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> Line 1: 3 numbers, separated by blanks: 1) systematic drift  rate  in  seconds  per  day,
May 25 23:16:03 <DocScrutinizer>        floating  point  decimal;  2)  Resulting  number of seconds since 1969 UTC of most recent
May 25 23:16:04 <DocScrutinizer>        adjustment or calibration, decimal integer; 3) zero (for compatibility with clock(8))  as
May 25 23:16:06 <DocScrutinizer>        a decimal integer.
May 25 23:16:34 <DocScrutinizer> if you have fun with calculating this manually, go ahead
May 25 23:17:06 <lindi-> :)
May 25 23:17:27 <DocScrutinizer> Line  2: 1 number: Resulting number of seconds since 1969 UTC of most recent calibration.
May 25 23:17:28 <DocScrutinizer>        Zero if there has been no calibration yet or it is known that any previous calibration is
May 25 23:17:30 <DocScrutinizer>        moot (for example, because the Hardware Clock has been found, since that calibration, not
May 25 23:17:31 <DocScrutinizer>        to contain a valid time).  This is a decimal integer.
May 25 23:17:33 <DocScrutinizer>        Line 3: "UTC" or "LOCAL".  Tells whether the Hardware Clock is set to Coordinated Univer-
May 25 23:17:34 <DocScrutinizer>        sal  Time  or local time.  You can always override this value with options on the hwclock
May 25 23:17:36 <DocScrutinizer>        command line.
May 25 23:19:06 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: you never must write to RTC by any other means than using `hwclock --systohc` IF COMPENSATING SYTEMIC DRIFT
May 25 23:20:09 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: btw, are there any other time sources in freerunner than those I tested?
May 25 23:20:17 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: you must NEVER use `hwclock --systohc`, but rather `hwclock --systohc --noadjfile` to correct any error NOT introduced by systemic drift, like DST or bat loss
May 25 23:21:43 <DocScrutinizer> dunno what U tested. There's PMU, system, GPS, and GSM (RTC and network time - if supported by carrier)
May 25 23:22:20 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yep I tested those four
May 25 23:22:29 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: s3c rtc apparently is not usable
May 25 23:22:38 <DocScrutinizer> GSM is crap, as RTC doesn't survive a modem reset, and carriers send time very rarely
May 25 23:22:55 <DocScrutinizer> S3C rtc not supported by hw
May 25 23:24:00 <DocScrutinizer> GPS is higly accurate
May 25 23:24:33 <DocScrutinizer> PMU is supposed to be master clock ("stratum 0" ;-> )
May 25 23:25:46 <DocScrutinizer> as it's the only clock capable to resume and even boot the device, and it should yield accuracy comparable to an low-priced quartz wrist watch
May 25 23:26:37 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i consider it to drift too much for even a low-priced watch :)
May 25 23:26:49 * DocScrutinizer humms "20 mio watches with a strap to sell"
May 25 23:28:08 <vininim> DocScrutinizer: how many times per day would a carrier send time?
May 25 23:28:28 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: now if I want to set an RTC alarm accurately i need some library that can calculate the correct wakeup time (accounting for the drift in the clock)
May 25 23:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> that would be the end of... be the end of time
May 25 23:28:59 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: hehe, correct
May 25 23:29:18 <DocScrutinizer> if you bother about the few seconds off
May 25 23:30:04 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise you could do a --hctosys --systohc to give the RTC a fake correction
May 25 23:30:27 <lindi-> i wouldn't want to write to rtc due to the inaccuracy that causes :)
May 25 23:30:30 <DocScrutinizer> and set skew between physical and corrected time to zero
May 25 23:30:42 <lindi-> anyways, calypso just drifted one second :-)
May 25 23:31:01 <lindi-> (-1 second against gps now)
May 25 23:31:06 <DocScrutinizer> wtf, you can't use calypso for anything
May 25 23:31:20 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: sure I can :)
May 25 23:31:33 <DocScrutinizer> it has no ALARM, it doesn't keep time when powered down
May 25 23:31:41 <lindi-> yep
May 25 23:31:46 <Toaster`> lindi-: Dare I ask: What are you doing that requires that type of accuracy?
May 25 23:32:17 <lindi-> Toaster`: openstreetmap voice notes was my original goal :)
May 25 23:32:18 * DocScrutinizer also wonderng if lindi- just wants to annoy him
May 25 23:32:39 <lindi-> Toaster`: I was fed up with having those off-by-four-second or so :)
May 25 23:33:38 <Toaster`> lindi-: ok, so you'll be mapping with gps, couldn't just use the gps time?  Maybe use a gps polling of 1Hz?
May 25 23:34:03 <lindi-> Toaster`: well you can't poll gps
May 25 23:34:04 <DocScrutinizer> bah, call `hwclock --hctosys` with a cronjob every hour, and you're fine
May 25 23:34:17 <lindi-> Toaster`: it sends the time when the second changes
May 25 23:34:40 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yep, i'll investigate on the adjtime more
May 25 23:34:49 <Toaster`> lindi-: ok, maybe polling is a bad word, could your app not parse it from the most recent NEMA data?
May 25 23:35:02 <lindi-> Toaster`: yep
May 25 23:35:47 <lindi-> Toaster`: but still i'd fancy a bit more accurate clock for logging and stuff :)
May 25 23:36:14 <lindi-> Toaster`: "asterisk called twice, which call got through?"
May 25 23:36:25 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: btw the SHR GPS applet/screen foo adjusts RTC and systime automatically
May 25 23:37:16 <Toaster`> lindi-: I suppose.  Either way, if you get something working I can offer to be a tester :) Audio logging (ideally VOX audio, but triggering is ok) would be fantastic.
May 25 23:37:42 <lindi-> Toaster`: simple logging is very easy to do
May 25 23:38:21 <Toaster`> lindi-: quite true, but audio apps are beyond what I've looked into.
May 25 23:38:31 <Toaster`> as in more complex ones
May 25 23:38:44 <vininim> GPS applet wat?
May 25 23:39:01 <lindi-> but for higher accuracy I might want to keep the audio device open all the time so that when user presses the button I can start recording immediately without delay
May 25 23:39:13 <Toaster`> that'll hurt battery time
May 25 23:40:27 <lindi-> Toaster`: sure
May 25 23:40:34 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: actually I guess it's frameworkd (ogpsd?) that does this, not any SHR setting screen/app
May 25 23:40:50 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yep, otimed
May 25 23:40:57 <lindi-> but i don't want those :)
May 25 23:41:24 <DocScrutinizer> so I can't help
May 25 23:57:30 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: AFAIK you can set up GPS as a timeserver for ntpd
May 25 23:57:35 <lindi-> yep
May 25 23:57:54 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: should cat /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/since_epoch and "hwclock" produce different results when /etc/adjtime is setup correctly?
May 25 23:58:18 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: I think yes but I can't make them print different values even if I use totally crazy adjtime
May 25 23:58:20 <DocScrutinizer> i dunno what this sysfs crap does
May 25 23:58:27 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: it should read the rtc directly
May 25 23:58:39 <DocScrutinizer> I guess , yes
May 25 23:59:10 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: do those differ on your system?
May 25 23:59:25 <DocScrutinizer> can't test ATM
May 26 00:00:45 <DocScrutinizer> but yes, hwclock should calculate the correct time from RTC raw readout and adjtime file. You mustn't call hwclock with --adjust though ;-)
May 26 00:01:35 <DocScrutinizer> just do 'hwclock' w/o any parameter
May 26 00:02:13 <DocScrutinizer> and it should give you different time than raw read via sysfs
May 26 00:02:44 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: hwclock --utc   does not even open /dev/adjtime
May 26 00:02:45 <DocScrutinizer> of course only if RTC is actually off
May 26 00:03:06 <DocScrutinizer> rather strange
May 26 00:03:15 <lindi-> if (!noadjfile && (adjust || set || systohc || (!utc && !local_opt))) {
May 26 00:03:16 <lindi->   rc = read_adjtime(&adjtime);
May 26 00:03:25 <lindi-> } else { /* A little trick to avoid reading the file if we don't have to */
May 26 00:04:03 <DocScrutinizer> duh, where's this from?
May 26 00:04:04 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: my theory here is that adjtime is only used when you _write_ to rtc
May 26 00:04:08 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: util-linux 2.13
May 26 00:04:13 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: hwclock.c
May 26 00:04:31 <DocScrutinizer> (only on write) doesn't make sense
May 26 00:05:02 <lindi-> "strace -e open hwclock --utc" clearly does not even open the whole file
May 26 00:05:23 <DocScrutinizer> || (!utc &
May 26 00:05:32 <lindi-> neither does "sudo strace -e open hwclock --localtime"
May 26 00:05:47 <ptitjes> good night everybody
May 26 00:05:48 <lindi-> if you don't specify --utc or --localtime then it needs to read adjtime to figure out if it is UTC or LOCALTIME on the third line
May 26 00:06:00 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 26 00:06:13 <lindi-> but my theory is that those first two lines are not used
May 26 00:06:36 <lindi-> (unless you write to RTC)
May 26 00:06:39 <DocScrutinizer> that would be utterly wrong and silly
May 26 00:07:54 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: yep reading the code i'm 98% sure that hwclock does not use adjtime when you use it display current time
May 26 00:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> yup, you're right. manpage says it's used for --adjust parameter only
May 26 00:09:12 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: the relevant fragment is http://paste.debian.net/37101/ -- in if (show) the adjtime struct is not passed anywhere
May 26 00:09:45 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: ok. so I need to write some nice tool that will do set_system_time((get_rtc_time() - A) * B)
May 26 00:10:19 <DocScrutinizer> anyway all this is written down in epic verbousness in "The Adjust Function" of `man hwclock`
May 26 00:10:25 <lindi-> yep
May 26 00:10:58 <DocScrutinizer> I don't see what's wrong with the --adjust function of hwclock
May 26 00:11:53 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: it makes it harder to do long-term monitoring of the clock's behavior :)
May 26 00:12:04 <DocScrutinizer> (btw I think this semantics changed from last century to now)
May 26 00:12:23 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: since when I write something to RTC I can never quite know when the write go through
May 26 00:12:31 <lindi-> s/go/got/
May 26 00:12:31 <bzzbot> lindi- meant: DocScrutinizer: since when I write something to RTC I can never quite know when the write got through
May 26 00:12:36 <DocScrutinizer> hwclock *DOES* long term monitoring of the RTCs behaviour
May 26 00:13:14 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: but if every write introduces uncertainty then it's not something I want
May 26 00:13:21 <DocScrutinizer> and hwclock deals with it's own skew
May 26 00:14:19 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: also, my proposed solution would be stateless. there would be no need to update a file every four hours :)
May 26 00:14:45 <lindi-> think of the flash write cycles :P
May 26 00:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> OMG
May 26 00:59:44 <wpwrak> lindi-: finally a good test for all the bad block avoidance algorithms :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 26 02:59:57 2009