**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 03 02:59:57 2009 Jun 03 05:16:14 good morning...installed "shr-testing without problems....but shr-unstable in an other directory gave me the message Jun 03 05:16:15 " Jun 03 05:16:15 checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes Jun 03 05:16:15 checking for FRAMEWORKD_GLIB... configure: error: Package requirements (libframeworkd-glib) were not met: Jun 03 05:16:15 No package 'libframeworkd-glib' found Jun 03 05:16:17 " Jun 03 05:16:19 What shall I do? Jun 03 05:27:03 DocScrutinizer, I was advised you might e able to answer a question i asked in #om-debian. "does the internal GPS antenna need to be disabled for an external GPS antenna to be used instead?" from what i gather on the 'net the answer is 'no, but external antennas may not work correctly' Jun 03 05:29:21 yust works Jun 03 05:29:46 automagically Jun 03 05:32:14 ok, thanks. Guess I'll need to install a current image onto flash and try it on there. i'm not getting sync on the image living on sdcard. Jun 03 05:41:07 morning Jun 03 06:05:46 any idea why http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/048966.html is cut off after two paragraphs and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/ isn't updated at all? Jun 03 07:35:05 mrmoku|a`? Jun 03 07:49:40 hum are all those strange behavior du to the override missing ? Jun 03 08:00:26 ptitjes: there's a strong chance yes Jun 03 08:00:41 even the cursor ?? Jun 03 08:00:47 I had never seen this one :) Jun 03 08:00:51 mrmoku|a`: please remind me to check with you which override may be missing considering om OVERRIDE removal Jun 03 08:00:58 mrmoku|a`: I'm off for work Jun 03 08:01:14 cu later Jun 03 08:49:22 Morning! Jun 03 08:49:37 Could someone please kick me? Jun 03 08:50:54 Ainulindale: I think I found the language in which I'd like to program now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOLCODE Jun 03 08:50:56 :D Jun 03 08:51:13 Last night, I started bit-bake-ing Navit and then turned off the computer that routes the Intarwebs to my build host :-( Jun 03 08:51:15 ChristW: humm really ? Jun 03 08:51:30 So my build failed miserably... Jun 03 08:51:38 ChristW: and logically :) Jun 03 08:51:58 ptitjes: Well, not in a literal sense (or better: _only_ in a literal sense) :-) Jun 03 08:52:16 héhé Jun 03 08:52:23 Ah well, only one night of building time lost... It's now busy doing the rest... Jun 03 08:53:20 ...although I hope I can get the source of unzip522! It's been retrying a lot! Jun 03 08:55:06 humm brainfuck is a nice language too Jun 03 08:55:09 :) Jun 03 08:56:01 ChristW: this is the addition in brainfuck language: Jun 03 08:56:05 ,>------[<-------->+],[<+>-]<. Jun 03 08:57:00 (Marvin) I've seen it, it's rubbish! Jun 03 08:58:21 Like it says, Brainf*ck... it's not quite readable, now, is it? Jun 03 08:58:27 Then, there's 'Whitespace'... Jun 03 08:59:32 yeah :) Jun 03 08:59:43 syntax hilighting i cool for whitespace :) Jun 03 08:59:50 s/i/is Jun 03 09:09:08 Ainulindale, ouch Jun 03 09:13:03 LOLCODE looks... uhm... Jun 03 09:13:45 looks lol Jun 03 09:15:23 mrmoku: ouch? :-) Jun 03 09:15:48 Hi, i'm trying to package some tools in SHR, but bitbake make me crazy ! When I launch "bitbake -c build libnfc", it outputs with errors : "Missing or unbuildable dependency chain was: ['libnfc', 'libusb1"']" Jun 03 09:15:51 Ainulindale, the branch thing... I forgot to make update :( Jun 03 09:16:36 mrmoku: heh :-) Jun 03 09:17:18 Ainulindale, regarding the overrides... we get them all with git grep _openmoko', no? Jun 03 09:17:29 and find -type d Jun 03 09:17:43 ouch again :) Jun 03 09:19:03 hmm... no, no dirs with _openmoko Jun 03 09:21:19 Ainulindale, you already changed the branch? Jun 03 09:21:27 apparently Jun 03 09:30:02 mrmoku: Yes I did Jun 03 09:30:08 mrmoku: openmoko not _openmoko Jun 03 09:30:17 Ainulindale, even then Jun 03 09:30:47 I'm sure there is Jun 03 09:30:55 dropbear, netbase for instance Jun 03 09:30:58 Ainulindale, ahh... there is Xserver ;) Jun 03 09:31:07 What? Jun 03 09:31:23 recipes/xserver-kdrive-common/xserver-kdrive-common/openmoko Jun 03 09:31:30 which explains the cursor thing :P Jun 03 09:31:36 yep Jun 03 09:31:43 (see what I just did on screen) Jun 03 09:32:13 Some of them aren't used Jun 03 09:32:15 (such as udev) Jun 03 09:32:37 dropbear is unecessary now that we'll switch to openssh Jun 03 09:32:46 But we could still keep it for the sake of people wanting to use it Jun 03 09:33:01 IIRC splash is useless Jun 03 09:34:00 hellogood morning...installed "shr-testing without problems....but shr-unstable in an other directory gave me the message Jun 03 09:34:00 " Jun 03 09:34:00 checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes Jun 03 09:34:00 checking for FRAMEWORKD_GLIB... configure: error: Package requirements (libframeworkd-glib) were not met: Jun 03 09:34:01 No package 'libframeworkd-glib' found Jun 03 09:34:03 " Jun 03 09:34:05 schasch: What shall I do,in testing it is found,...in unstable not...? Jun 03 09:34:28 schasch: try bitbake -c rebuild libframeworkd-glib Jun 03 09:34:43 Then bitbake -c clean thepackagecomplainingaboutmissinglfg Jun 03 09:34:50 then bitbake thesamepackage Jun 03 09:34:59 (that after . setup-env, of course) Jun 03 09:35:11 Then tell me if it fails Jun 03 09:35:16 mrmoku: Do you need some additional info? Jun 03 09:35:21 Do you want me to help? Jun 03 09:35:27 Ainulindale, yeah... what do we do? :P Jun 03 09:36:02 Ainulindale:tankx...i will try... Jun 03 09:36:51 mrmoku: Let's split the work Jun 03 09:36:57 Do you want to do the _openmoko or openmoko stuff? Jun 03 09:37:27 hmm... Jun 03 09:37:56 what is the correct way I meant... cp openmoko shr ? Jun 03 09:38:05 (for the openmokof stuff) Jun 03 09:38:16 Yep Jun 03 09:38:18 and dupplicate _openmoko overrides to _shr Jun 03 09:38:22 Not necessarily Jun 03 09:38:29 We have to check each of them to see if we truly use them Jun 03 09:38:39 sure Jun 03 09:39:51 B y the way mrmoku could you help me quickly with my lack of git knowledge? :-) Jun 03 09:40:06 git pull complains about me needing to define Jun 03 09:40:06 branch.shr/import.remote = Jun 03 09:40:08 (and such) Jun 03 09:40:14 I can't recall how I fixed that before Jun 03 09:40:24 <= git noob, not really awoken yet Jun 03 09:40:56 [branch "shr/import"] remote = origin merge = refs/heads/shr/import Jun 03 09:41:07 is what I have in my .git/config Jun 03 09:41:08 Danke :-) Jun 03 09:41:18 and then push = "shr/import" Jun 03 09:41:24 under [remote "origin"] Jun 03 09:41:29 trying now Jun 03 09:41:32 that it just pushes our branch Jun 03 09:42:06 Seems it's working properly Jun 03 09:42:09 So, what would you rather do? Jun 03 09:42:35 well... I have to go to the public library with my son in some minutes Jun 03 09:42:41 (he's got some homework) Jun 03 09:42:45 Ok then I'll check myself :-) Jun 03 09:42:56 after that lunch and then I can do whatever is needed Jun 03 09:43:33 for _openmoko we just need dropbear and fbreader I think Jun 03 09:43:53 I did that once... and reverted it, because patches got applied twice Jun 03 09:44:06 (still had the openmoko override back then) Jun 03 09:44:21 Ok :-) Jun 03 09:45:09 for openmoko (the files) the most important one is ./recipes/xserver-kdrive-common/xserver-kdrive-common/openmoko Jun 03 09:47:07 Ainulindale, btw... for openssh to work out of the box we have to adjust the config there too Jun 03 09:47:12 to allow for empty passwords Jun 03 09:47:31 Yep Jun 03 09:47:54 anyway... I'll be back later to help :P have to go now, sorry Jun 03 10:02:16 mrmoku|away: ok I think I'm done there Jun 03 10:08:52 Ainulindale:TANKX ...make image runs now on... (I wrote your solution in the german forum... http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1277) Jun 03 10:59:36 Ainulindale, looks fine :) Jun 03 11:19:07 PaulFertser: are you here? Jun 03 12:18:18 mrmoku|away: will soon sync the images Jun 03 12:18:29 Hopefully they'll be good Jun 03 12:19:02 ptitjes ? Jun 03 12:19:26 Ainulindale: here but not much time Jun 03 12:19:32 gtg to work in some minutes Jun 03 12:19:35 ptitjes: my mail, and test the images when it hits the buildhost please Jun 03 12:19:45 s/it hits/they'll hit/ Jun 03 12:19:45 Ainulindale meant: ptitjes: my mail, and test the images when they'll hit the buildhost please Jun 03 12:19:45 is it already there ? Jun 03 12:19:54 in ten minutes or so Jun 03 12:20:00 good then I'll wait Jun 03 12:20:10 Take advantage of that time to reply to my mail Jun 03 12:20:16 Ten minutes should be enough Jun 03 12:20:22 Ainulindale: don't you think I need more than ten minutes ?? Jun 03 12:20:29 oh really ? Jun 03 12:20:37 Well you took three weeks to think about it Jun 03 12:20:40 Should be quite ready now Jun 03 12:20:55 (niark) Jun 03 12:20:58 studying GSimpleAsyncResult code actually Jun 03 12:21:18 GMyAss! Jun 03 12:21:34 I just like that part of the GLib Jun 03 12:21:38 My ass? Jun 03 12:21:58 I'm just sorry that all those stuff are not packaged in separate libraries Jun 03 12:29:32 mrmoku: ping Jun 03 12:29:38 Ainulindale, poing Jun 03 12:29:42 mrmoku: currently regenerating GTA01 Jun 03 12:29:48 Then package-index, then sync Jun 03 12:29:55 * mrmoku currently scping gta02 image :P Jun 03 12:30:08 mrmoku: could you please help me to come up with a procedure to fix that for existing images? Jun 03 12:30:16 Maybe some script to launch to update particularly dropbear? Jun 03 12:30:34 hmm... dropbear is tricky :( Jun 03 12:30:38 That is, downloading the ipk, changing the conf when necessary? Jun 03 12:31:45 Kamping_Kaiser: might be the uSD-GPS interference. But that's supposed to never show up on external ant Jun 03 12:32:21 Ainulindale, what about the kernel? is the kernel the correct one? Jun 03 12:33:46 DocScrutinizer, this time i was trying on internal ant. tomorrow i'll try with the external again to test it out Jun 03 12:34:05 mrmoku: SHR one, so yes Jun 03 12:34:09 As well as the initscripts Jun 03 12:34:14 Ainulindale, what about 'nohup opkg -force-reinstall install dropbear' Jun 03 12:34:22 Ainulindale, but it built from the wrong branch? Jun 03 12:34:33 Kamping_Kaiser: U know about uSD-GPS issue? Jun 03 12:34:39 mrmoku: well I'd like us to come up with a full shell script to do that Jun 03 12:34:55 mrmoku: I don't think it was Jun 03 12:35:01 Well anyway we'll check that Jun 03 12:35:09 mrmoku: I think somehow you rebased it Jun 03 12:35:11 Ainulindale, ok, nohup update-script then Jun 03 12:35:22 DocScrutinizer, i saw something about it today doing research. Jun 03 12:35:26 mrmoku: anyway we'll check that Jun 03 12:35:35 mrmoku: Plus we bumped PR for our modified stuff Jun 03 12:35:44 So it shouldn't be problematic Jun 03 12:35:54 and we wouldn't have had ophonekitd & such if there wasn't shr stuff in it Jun 03 12:35:58 so I guess you just rebased somehow Jun 03 12:36:07 So don't worry about that Jun 03 12:36:21 Just ask next time for overrides & such :-) Jun 03 12:36:26 (And test!!!! :-) ) Jun 03 12:36:38 I know it was mwester's fault though :-p Jun 03 12:36:46 ok, which packages need to be manually reinstalled then? Jun 03 12:36:56 dropbear, fbreader (which might be installed or not) Jun 03 12:37:04 the kdrive-common thing Jun 03 12:37:05 mrmoku: well all the packages with overrides openmoko to be sure Jun 03 12:37:13 I have a list in the screen Jun 03 12:37:21 Will tell you after the image building ends Jun 03 12:37:32 We have to check the installed packaged against the recompiled one Jun 03 12:37:38 mrmoku: download new packet and install from local storage, for dropbear? Jun 03 12:37:47 Fetch them from http Jun 03 12:37:54 Then reinstall them Jun 03 12:38:00 (I insist on fetching them before) Jun 03 12:38:06 DocScrutinizer: that's what I was suggesting Jun 03 12:38:07 hehe Jun 03 12:38:15 i c Jun 03 12:38:25 DocScrutinizer: great minds think alike Jun 03 12:38:32 yup Jun 03 12:38:43 Ainulindale : some softwares (like which one i try to package) need a patched libusb. This is just to fit to C99 standard. Many distributions (like Debian or OpenWrt) adopt this patch. How to summit this patch to OE ? Jun 03 12:39:00 neomilium: is it intrusive? Jun 03 12:39:08 Could it hamper functionnalities for 3rd party? Jun 03 12:40:12 no : it's just some stuff like s/u_int8_t/uint8_t/ ... Jun 03 12:40:21 what is C99 ? Jun 03 12:40:54 Ainulindale : have a look to https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/packages/libs/libusb/patches/001-debian_ansi_types.patch?rev=16122 Jun 03 12:40:55 mrmoku: bitbake -c clean modutils xserver-kdrive-common netbase dropbear procps sysvinit psplash fbreader; bitbake modutils xserver-kdrive-common netbase dropbear procps sysvinit psplash fbreader; bitbake shr-lite-image shr-image Jun 03 12:41:09 C99 is the lastest C standard Jun 03 12:41:15 neomilium: if it's not intrusive, if you're confident enough in it, add an override in the bb recipe for shr and put your patch in it Jun 03 12:41:17 aaah Jun 03 12:41:18 That is Jun 03 12:41:23 this one Jun 03 12:41:25 SRC_URI_append_shr = "file//yourpatch.patch;patch=1" Jun 03 12:41:35 and put the patch in the files for the package Jun 03 12:41:38 And I'll commit it to OE Jun 03 12:42:15 (Am I clear enough?) Jun 03 12:42:37 Ainudale : you want a "svn diff" from modified libusb recipe directory ? Jun 03 12:42:56 s/Ainudale/Ainulindale/ Jun 03 12:42:57 neomilium meant: Ainulindale : you want a "svn diff" from modified libusb recipe directory ? Jun 03 12:43:04 neomilium: nope Jun 03 12:43:14 I'd like to see *decent* regression tests rather than confidence Jun 03 12:43:17 neomilium: use the normal recipe, bitbake -c unpack libusb Jun 03 12:43:20 Go into the work directory Jun 03 12:43:28 try to apply your patch Jun 03 12:43:29 If it works Jun 03 12:43:35 Then add it to the bb recipe as I just told you to Jun 03 12:43:40 I'll test it then commit it into OE Jun 03 12:43:58 (patch as in diff patch) Jun 03 12:44:11 (check e17/e-wm_svn recipe to see how it's done) Jun 03 12:44:22 I'd like to see *decent* regression tests rather than confidence Jun 03 12:44:42 DocScrutinizer: :-) Jun 03 12:44:57 DocScrutinizer: Well to me debian inclusion unfortunately induces some confidence Jun 03 12:45:00 heh it's USB! Jun 03 12:45:03 I may be mistaken though Jun 03 12:46:30 if it's just for C99, the binary shouldn't differ, right? Jun 03 12:47:58 if binaries are identical, this would install enough of confidence to convince me ;-) Jun 03 12:50:16 DocScrutinizer, you're right binairies shouldn't differ... AFAI can imagine... Jun 03 12:51:44 neomilium: so could you do this test with your patch? It would make me feel much better :-) Jun 03 12:52:27 DocScrutinizer: yep, I'll Jun 03 12:57:44 tracfeed: Ticket #502 (unable to restart frameworkd with working gsm or sim) updated Jun 03 12:59:45 tracfeed: ophonekitd.log attached to Ticket #502  || frameworkd.2.log attached to Ticket #502 Jun 03 12:59:45 Ainulindale, something like http://pastebin.com/d3ce101ca Jun 03 13:00:59 Ainulindale, the image is finished... did you sync? Jun 03 13:02:09 sister Anne, don't you see anything comming ? Jun 03 13:02:10 tracfeed: Ticket #502 (unable to restart frameworkd with working gsm or sim) updated Jun 03 13:03:20 Ainulindale, mrmoku: any news ??? Jun 03 13:05:23 any problems ? Jun 03 13:06:46 ptitjes, problems Jun 03 13:07:25 mrmoku: do you think it will be quickly resolvable ? Jun 03 13:07:28 Ainulindale, ok, synced now... trying my script :) Jun 03 13:07:32 ptitjes, yep Jun 03 13:07:35 cool Jun 03 13:07:51 yes it is comming :) Jun 03 13:07:56 ptitjes, you can get the new image from today... which is ready Jun 03 13:08:13 mrmoku: this is what I was waiting for :) Jun 03 13:08:18 reload reload Jun 03 13:08:43 ptitjes, if you already flashed... you can as well try my script :P Jun 03 13:08:57 your script ? Jun 03 13:09:17 mrmoku: downloading now Jun 03 13:09:56 mrmoku: no kernel changes ? Jun 03 13:10:26 mrmoku: well did you add server to your script? Jun 03 13:10:27 +x Jun 03 13:10:57 mrmoku: ah and you should wget them all THEN opkg install them all Jun 03 13:11:11 plus check if opkg may have a -fetch command Jun 03 13:11:16 as it'll use proxy from opkg.conf Jun 03 13:11:34 * ptitjes doesn't even understand what you guys are speaking about Jun 03 13:11:50 ptitjes: upgrade script for the correction of the missing override Jun 03 13:11:58 In order to avoid reflash Jun 03 13:12:06 ha oki Jun 03 13:12:10 By the way we should raise the subject of a custom shr opkg directive Jun 03 13:12:26 to do postinst stuff for upgrade Jun 03 13:12:30 (from X to Y) Jun 03 13:12:44 (and custom scripts for this migration) Jun 03 13:12:49 I'm sure it's not that difficult to do Jun 03 13:13:02 It might even be a job for ptitjes who'll be eager to rewrite it in prolog Jun 03 13:13:26 Ainulindale: I was just thinking "hummm that would hard to setup for me" Jun 03 13:13:28 :) Jun 03 13:13:36 sorry I won't be that one Jun 03 13:13:37 That would what? Jun 03 13:13:43 be Jun 03 13:13:49 Why to setup? Jun 03 13:14:00 I'm sure you can setup stuff, such as mail accounts to reply to my mail for instance Jun 03 13:14:20 lol i'm really curious what you mailed him about :p Jun 03 13:14:26 meaning: I don't what an opkg directive could be, how it works and I don't mind :) Jun 03 13:14:44 ptitjes: opkg install does postinst stuff Jun 03 13:14:54 Ainulindale: please check you mail, instead of trolling Jun 03 13:14:56 on upgrade we might want to do a "upgrade_from_X_to_Y" Jun 03 13:14:57 :) Jun 03 13:15:08 great Jun 03 13:15:14 but that is not my part Ainulindale Jun 03 13:15:47 tracfeed: Ticket #496 (new frameworkd.conf default configuration problem about audio scenarii) updated Jun 03 13:16:03 please let me stick to designing/coding stuff (as I told in my answer to the "Responsibilities" mail on the coreteam ML) Jun 03 13:23:51 Blu3: ping Jun 03 13:31:07 mrmoku: so? Jun 03 13:31:51 who's maintaining the first-run config&setup script? (the one to make user select theme, locale, icons...) Jun 03 13:33:21 Ainulindale: so I won't bitch and whine on you ;-) Jun 03 13:33:22 tracfeed: Ticket #496 (new frameworkd.conf default configuration problem about audio scenarii) closed Jun 03 13:33:56 DocScrutinizer: it's e stuff Jun 03 13:34:04 errrrks Jun 03 13:35:00 Ainulindale: hey Jun 03 13:35:21 we might like to see SHR stuff there as well - e.g. setup CC, AC intl/natnl prefix Jun 03 13:35:32 MarcOChapeau: oï Jun 03 13:35:34 pim backends Jun 03 13:35:38 DocScrutinizer: I agree Jun 03 13:36:03 mrmoku: don't die on me :-) Jun 03 13:36:03 Ainulindale: I sent a CV to bearstech. they seem interested :) Jun 03 13:36:13 Heh Jun 03 13:37:01 hmmm, prolly your CV is more shiny than mine :-S Jun 03 13:37:33 More french maybe Jun 03 13:37:43 hrhrr Jun 03 13:39:10 DocScrutinizer: as far a FLOSS is concerned, I have a hard time doing anything interesting in the companies I work for... Jun 03 13:39:54 DocScrutinizer: so I'm knocking at the door of FLOSS service companies Jun 03 13:40:17 wtf Jun 03 13:40:18 NOTE: package vala-native-0.7.3+0.7.4-fso1-r0: task do_fetch: started Jun 03 13:40:18 NOTE: The localpath does not exist '/home/didier/SHR/shr-unstable/downloads/vala-0.7.4-fso1.tar.gz' Jun 03 13:40:18 NOTE: Task failed: Checksum of 'http://www.freesmartphone.org/sources/vala-0.7.4-fso1.tar.gz' failed Jun 03 13:40:18 NOTE: package vala-native-0.7.3+0.7.4-fso1-r0: task do_fetch: failed Jun 03 13:40:19 E Jun 03 13:40:34 ptitjes: checksums.ini Jun 03 13:40:42 or Jun 03 13:40:57 OE_ALLOW_INSECURE_DOWNLOADS=1 Jun 03 13:41:00 in local.conf Jun 03 13:41:25 insecure ? hooo, scary Jun 03 13:41:33 (avoid checksum verification) Jun 03 13:41:43 MarcOChapeau: well, I'm not exactly able to tell what I *would like to do*, so probably your CV and application is easier for those companies to get interested in Jun 03 13:41:55 Ainulindale: should I add the checksum.ini addition in my patch ? Jun 03 13:42:03 ptitjes: yes Jun 03 13:42:11 at the end of the file Jun 03 13:43:03 Ainulindale: why not after the existing vala-* checksums ? Jun 03 13:43:23 as it has been done for 0.7.3-fso1 ? Jun 03 13:45:08 MarcOChapeau: I've done such a wide collection of different things - most employers seem unable to decide which of my skills could be usefull for them, so in the end they might pick someone they got a better idea how to integrate him Jun 03 13:45:32 yes :) SHR spash is back :) Jun 03 13:45:39 ptitjes: as you wish Jun 03 13:45:41 I don't care Jun 03 13:47:16 do I have something to do so that bitbake knows I manually removed the downloaded archive ? Jun 03 13:47:53 -c clean should retry & fetch if necessary Jun 03 13:55:31 ptitjes: could you please answer to the dbusification thread? I just replied to it Jun 03 13:55:40 mrmoku: I'd be glad to see your thoughts too Jun 03 13:55:55 Deubeuliou: just answered to your mail Jun 03 13:56:05 I hope I'm understandable :-) Jun 03 13:59:00 re Jun 03 14:01:20 mwester: heya Jun 03 14:01:42 OMFG mrmoku died :-) Jun 03 14:01:54 o noes! Jun 03 14:19:52 heyho Jun 03 14:52:02 shr unstable...is there a patch? Jun 03 14:52:04 valac: symbol lookup error: /home/bucket/moko_shr/shr-unstable/tmp/work/i686-linux/vala-native-0.7.2-fso1-gitr2803+230d217be7125f40d179bbd5941a351e12c49e98-r0/git/compiler/.libs/lt-valac: undefined symbol: vala_code_context_set_profile Jun 03 14:52:05 make[2]: *** [vapigen.vala.stamp] Error 127 Jun 03 14:52:37 can't "make image"... .-( Jun 03 14:52:42 Ainulindale: (mrmoku) heh? Jun 03 14:55:06 * DocScrutinizer thinks about Vala Application Middleware Programming Interface Extended Jun 03 14:58:50 * DocScrutinizer got the vampie-gen, so puts on his sunglasses - - then off for shadowy beergarden Jun 03 15:05:39 schasch: you're not up to date it seems Jun 03 15:06:20 Ainulindale:so update with bitbake? Jun 03 15:06:40 schasch: make update in your directory where shr-unstable is Jun 03 15:06:44 tell me if it fails Jun 03 15:07:31 Ainulindale:make: *** No rule to make target `update'. Stop Jun 03 15:07:40 schasch: pwd? Jun 03 15:08:10 /home/bu/moko_shr/shr-unstable Jun 03 15:08:22 17:06:47 < Ainulindale> schasch: make update in your directory where shr-unstable is Jun 03 15:08:25 so cd .. Jun 03 15:08:25 make update Jun 03 15:08:41 and pastebin the result please Jun 03 15:08:41 sorry... Jun 03 15:08:46 No need to be sorry :-) Jun 03 15:09:35 Ainulindale:is updateing testing and unstable now? Jun 03 15:09:45 what? Jun 03 15:10:38 Ainulindale:I di ::: cd ..;make update Jun 03 15:10:50 yes, and ? Jun 03 15:12:37 Ainulindale:I asked if 'make update' updates .bb and makefiles for testing and unstable....I guess the answer is YES Jun 03 15:12:45 yes :-) Jun 03 15:13:42 Ainulindale:make update:ready.....make image is running again.... Jun 03 15:14:25 Was there some error in make update? Jun 03 15:15:59 Ainulindale:yes...errors ...I'll check.... Jun 03 15:16:19 Well you shouldn't rerun make image if there are errors Jun 03 15:22:51 error: patch failed: recipes/netbase/netbase_4.21.bb:2 Jun 03 15:22:51 error: recipes/netbase/netbase_4.21.bb: patch does not apply Jun 03 15:22:51 error: patch failed: recipes/netbase/netbase/om-gta01/interfaces:16 Jun 03 15:22:51 error: recipes/netbase/netbase/om-gta01/interfaces: patch does not apply Jun 03 15:22:51 error: patch failed: recipes/netbase/netbase/om-gta02/interfaces:16 Jun 03 15:23:13 (sigh) Jun 03 15:23:18 17:08:48 < Ainulindale> and pastebin the result please Jun 03 15:23:28 17:08:48 < Ainulindale> and pastebin the result please Jun 03 15:23:33 The whole thing Jun 03 15:23:35 Not only the errors Jun 03 15:23:40 Pastebin it Jun 03 15:25:46 Ainulindale: Pastebin it ???? Jun 03 15:26:36 pastebin.cocm Jun 03 15:26:37 -c Jun 03 15:28:04 mrmoku|away: if you're not answering I'll have to work on the script myself :-/ Jun 03 15:28:21 (I guess you're busy at work or something) Jun 03 15:29:33 Ainulindale:http://pastebin.com/m3040e341 Jun 03 15:30:48 schasch: ok so follow these steps Jun 03 15:31:04 schasch: rm -rf /home/bucket/moko_shr/shr-unstable/openembedded Jun 03 15:31:12 cd /home/bucket/moko_shr/ Jun 03 15:31:13 make update Jun 03 15:31:22 cd shr-unstable/openembedded Jun 03 15:31:23 git status Jun 03 15:31:29 tell me if it says you're on shr/import Jun 03 15:34:16 Hi all Jun 03 15:36:14 Ainulindale:# On branch shr/import Jun 03 15:36:15 Ainulindale:nothing to commit (working directory clean) Jun 03 15:37:04 schasch: then I'll suggest you go on with your image it should be good Jun 03 15:37:53 Ainulindale: make update first ? Jun 03 15:39:02 nah it should be good now if you followed what I told you Jun 03 15:43:40 yes!!!!! Jun 03 15:43:43 recieved my Fr back Jun 03 15:52:43 Zorkman: From where? Jun 03 15:52:51 buzz fix? Jun 03 15:59:53 can someone point me toward keyboard related files in case I want to make a custom keyboard? Jun 03 16:03:44 mwester: I heard a rumor that you tried the June 3 shr-unstable on gta01 Jun 03 16:04:04 It was from Ainulindale, so I'm not sure if it's true Jun 03 16:04:16 he's always spouting off BS Jun 03 16:04:42 not true :) But the day isn't over yet, and as soon as the openmoko/shr OVERRIDE stuff gets fixed up, I might build it again and attempt it. Jun 03 16:05:24 Oh, whoops Jun 03 16:05:32 I was just giving him grief. I was sure it was true ;-) Jun 03 16:05:52 Well, I'll probably give it a shot tonight, unless you've already tried it & tell me it's bad Jun 03 16:06:50 mwester: How's the job search? Jun 03 16:06:56 slow Jun 03 16:07:01 :-( Jun 03 16:07:11 ah well. Jun 03 16:08:45 where are you, if I may ask? Jun 03 16:09:14 http://lwn.net/ - Sean's post got to lwn. Corbet also told me that they have been writing an article for a week or so and hoping to finalize it soon. Jun 03 16:10:06 I love watching the way CEOs in their boundless optimism say "the company folded" Jun 03 16:10:11 (I sent a summary of all things happening like Om Inc happenings, gta02-core, A7 availability, buzz rework in EU etc) Jun 03 16:10:20 mwester: I already fixed it Jun 03 16:10:23 mwester: the override thing Jun 03 16:10:31 mwester: and rebuild the GTA01 image as well Jun 03 16:10:37 s/ild/ilt/ Jun 03 16:10:38 Ainulindale meant: mwester: and rebuilt the GTA01 image as well Jun 03 16:20:38 mrmoku: ALL HAIL OUR SAVIOR Jun 03 16:20:42 mrmoku: so? hard work? :-) Jun 03 16:20:44 Ainulindale, sorry... got a social disconnect... from wifey :( Jun 03 16:20:51 huh? Jun 03 16:20:56 Bad stuff? Jun 03 16:20:57 garden work... hard enough ;) Jun 03 16:21:11 Oh, I was worried about how you worded that :-) Jun 03 16:21:11 I promissed her to continue the construction of our pergola Jun 03 16:21:21 Well don't be sorry, real life comes first Jun 03 16:21:25 nahh.. not Jun 03 16:21:28 I was just wondering where you were Jun 03 16:21:28 *that* bad Jun 03 16:21:40 And whether I should take over the script or not :-) Jun 03 16:21:50 mrmoku: I studied the upgrade path thingie Jun 03 16:21:55 And I have a solution thanks to pb__ Jun 03 16:21:57 ok, opkg has download as command Jun 03 16:22:11 * mrmoku listens :) Jun 03 16:22:12 That is, patch opkg to include information about old package in postinst Jun 03 16:22:19 To allow us to use that information to compare versions Jun 03 16:22:21 And do what is necessary Jun 03 16:22:30 The patch is really straightforward Jun 03 16:22:36 All the info is there, not used yet though Jun 03 16:22:55 but that is for future upgrade paths? Jun 03 16:23:15 well Jun 03 16:23:20 if you have a 6 months old SHR Jun 03 16:23:24 And you update Jun 03 16:23:33 It'll apply the successive postinst scripts to keep you up to date Jun 03 16:23:39 And allow you not to bork your system Jun 03 16:24:07 This would solve our problem w.r.t. testing/stable/unstable and stuff Jun 03 16:25:03 anyway... for now I want to get my script done :P Jun 03 16:25:15 any reason why you want opkg to download the ipks? Jun 03 16:25:35 mrmoku: proxy settings/disconnect forced by dropbear hup Jun 03 16:26:24 Ainulindale, I agree with fetching all stuff first... Jun 03 16:26:32 opkg has it's own proxy settings? Jun 03 16:26:35 fetching with wget is not guaranteed depending on the user Jun 03 16:26:45 ok... opkg download then Jun 03 16:26:46 whereas there is a doc for proxy fetching for opkg Jun 03 16:26:49 I use it myself :-) Jun 03 16:27:00 how? Jun 03 16:27:09 in /etc/opkg/opkg.conf Jun 03 16:27:12 http & ftp proxy Jun 03 16:27:39 ok, so I can just do 'opkg download http://.....ipk' and all is fine... Jun 03 16:27:50 Exactly :-) Jun 03 16:27:58 Well opkg download without http is fine too :-) Jun 03 16:28:52 (i'd really like us to fix assassin issues w.r.t. SHR repos) Jun 03 16:29:01 (assassin is a must have for users) Jun 03 16:29:12 (or any packagekit UI) Jun 03 16:29:26 yep Jun 03 16:30:38 It's just a matter of patching it to consider good categories Jun 03 16:30:46 instead of the specific OM ones Jun 03 16:30:57 both items are on my todolist Jun 03 16:31:13 (that and the opkg upgrade thing) Jun 03 16:31:59 But for now my todolist includes whipping you to force you to do that script :-) Jun 03 16:35:31 Ainulindale, working on it :P Jun 03 16:35:40 Good! *whiplash* Jun 03 16:40:20 youhh Jun 03 16:40:37 DocMobilizer: you might be interested in that upgrade thing Jun 03 16:40:41 I think that's one of your woes Jun 03 16:41:22 exactly Jun 03 16:42:52 that's one of my woes w.r.t. the user too Jun 03 16:42:55 so that's good Jun 03 16:43:01 I count you as a voluntary tester for that :-) Jun 03 16:45:14 just ping me in case Jun 03 16:48:17 Don't think I won't Jun 03 16:50:51 DocMobilizer: by the way would you happen to have a link for a keyboard for the freerunner? Jun 03 16:53:42 hmm... busybox has a crippled mktemp? Jun 03 16:54:40 busybox IS crippled Jun 03 16:55:21 I *HATE* busybox Jun 03 16:57:15 Ainulindale: kbd? Jun 03 16:57:28 DocMobilizer: yeah, an USB or bluetooth keyboard Jun 03 16:57:38 Something light Jun 03 16:58:23 How many releases are we behind on busybox now? Jun 03 16:59:04 And how trimmed-down is the busybox defconfig? (IIRC, we use the default defconfig, which runs on devices with 32MB of total RAM...) Jun 03 16:59:06 :-) Jun 03 16:59:12 (well I'm off, see you in an hour or so) Jun 03 16:59:18 mwester: I'd be glad to change that for us :-p Jun 03 16:59:38 DocMobilizer, you might as well criticise modern computing technology based on transistors. Jun 03 16:59:44 Anyway, off now Jun 03 16:59:56 later Jun 03 17:01:01 * mwester goes to rebuild SHR once again, this time hopefully all the OVERRIDES are fixed and he can generate a reference image to use as he diddles with busybox changes. Jun 03 17:29:06 Ainulindale: so install decent shell and core-tools, and scratch busybox crap Jun 03 17:30:00 Ainulindale: AIUI busybox was never meant for an interactive shell. It's a botch to get initscripts running Jun 03 17:32:11 just about every tool emulated by busybox is a crippled implementation missing all of the nice features you would really love to have. E.g. "/" (find) for less Jun 03 17:32:46 "-s" for less Jun 03 17:33:09 ahh, don't get me started :-S Jun 03 17:33:20 I *HATE* busybox Jun 03 17:33:48 and I happily spend some 10MB for decent core-utils Jun 03 17:35:37 Blu3: PING Jun 03 17:35:45 oops capslock Jun 03 17:39:20 Ainulindale: I didn't receive your answer Jun 03 17:42:34 Ainulindale, ok, something like http://pastebin.com/d79cf0566 Jun 03 17:59:03 Ainulindale, added an opkg update and a nice message explaining the SSH disconnect Jun 03 18:02:17 arrrrrrrggghhh Jun 03 18:02:38 I'm so stupid. I thrown my send-email git settings while rm -rf shr-oemerge... Jun 03 18:31:08 doc, pong Jun 03 18:34:49 Ainulindale: Keyboard for Freerunner (or neo1973): iGo ThinkOutside, if they're still for sale Jun 03 18:34:53 evening Jun 03 18:35:16 It was about $40 - $50, and it folds up to fit in your pocket about as well as a FR fits in your pocket Jun 03 18:36:17 Deubeuliou: my answer? Jun 03 18:36:31 wurp2|working: thanks Jun 03 18:36:50 ptitjes: I'm glad you also came to that realization :-) Jun 03 18:37:13 ??? Jun 03 18:37:20 You being stupid :-p Jun 03 18:37:25 Ainulindale: beware I'm replying to your mail... Jun 03 18:37:31 the last one Jun 03 18:37:39 not much has changed I see... ;) Jun 03 18:37:45 Well I have automatic spam filters based on prolog & such :-) Jun 03 18:37:49 hi Jun 03 18:37:52 you may not be happy by what I'll say but IMHO this has to be said Jun 03 18:38:10 ptitjes: I'm happy with people disagreeing with me as long as it helps Jun 03 18:38:15 ptitjes: and FYI regarding your private mail Jun 03 18:38:22 If there is no move about dbusification this week Jun 03 18:38:26 I'll close the topic and start technical specs Jun 03 18:38:35 \o/ Jun 03 18:38:57 ptitjes: Some people were off in vacations and such I had to be sure everybody was given the right to talk Jun 03 18:39:24 Ainulindale: even if we are only David, mrmoku, Ainulindale and me (and the one that will awake seeing how things evolve), we can get something good Jun 03 18:39:36 s/Ainulindale/you/ Jun 03 18:39:36 ptitjes meant: you: even if we are only David, mrmoku, Ainulindale and me (and the one that will awake seeing how things evolve), we can get something good Jun 03 18:39:45 oh f****k Jun 03 18:39:52 :) Jun 03 18:40:02 i have to say... prolog left a mighty bad taste in my mouth after using it in AI Jun 03 18:40:23 man it was a pita to build useful data structures Jun 03 18:40:24 i like it for some specific problems Jun 03 18:40:37 raster: was it the same taste as when I first tried E ? Jun 03 18:40:38 :) Jun 03 18:40:43 ptitjes: meanwhile Jun 03 18:40:47 I have some candy for you Jun 03 18:40:56 ah, sorry, I was thinking of the other mail Jun 03 18:40:58 yeah candi Jun 03 18:40:59 personaly if i was looking for a logic extension lang where it doesnt have t be micro-small i'd use lua Jun 03 18:41:02 candi Jun 03 18:41:07 We'll need to be able to ship some "headers" for this stuff Jun 03 18:41:07 ptitjes, you should build itask-ng to get you mac feeling back Jun 03 18:41:08 ptitjes: ahhahaha Jun 03 18:41:16 such as component templates for libmodulo Jun 03 18:41:23 ptitjes: well.. i did use it for 6 months... (prolog) Jun 03 18:41:30 e.g. libframeworkd-phonegui-messages will ship "component" templates for messages Jun 03 18:41:39 usable regardless of the language hopefully Jun 03 18:41:45 Would you be able to start to think about that? Jun 03 18:41:50 Maybe write a proof of concept bb recipe? Jun 03 18:42:13 mrmoku: oh and by the way Jun 03 18:42:18 gpsd is in the image Jun 03 18:42:23 We forgot this one Jun 03 18:43:05 Ainulindale: heh the last image works as correctly as previous unstable Jun 03 18:43:07 that is good Jun 03 18:43:19 I hope we'll get rid of that suspend problem asap Jun 03 18:43:22 ptitjes: not for gps if I'm not mistaken Jun 03 18:43:26 this is ruinning my life Jun 03 18:43:27 ptitjes: s/suspend/dbus/ Jun 03 18:43:33 raster: bon soire Jun 03 18:43:34 lua isn't much enough lazy, as about me, I'll be think about smth similar to haskell Jun 03 18:43:44 Ainulindale: s/dbus/dbus-glib/ Jun 03 18:43:51 raster: long time no see/read Jun 03 18:43:53 ptitjes: IIRC it was libdbus Jun 03 18:43:55 not dbus-glib Jun 03 18:44:04 but still, dbus issue Jun 03 18:44:07 max_posedon: haskell is functionnal Jun 03 18:44:15 not the same thing :) Jun 03 18:44:16 haskell sucks as much as prolog Jun 03 18:44:17 ptitjes, I know Jun 03 18:44:18 people don't know that Jun 03 18:44:22 raster: How are things? Did you ever make it back to Europe? Jun 03 18:44:23 don't expect people to start using it Jun 03 18:44:39 it's sad to say, but people are lazy Jun 03 18:44:42 check ptitjes for instance :-> Jun 03 18:44:49 Ainulindale, I don't expect) Jun 03 18:44:50 Ainulindale: could you write a mail about you idea ?? Jun 03 18:44:57 (no pun intended) Jun 03 18:45:00 Which idea? Jun 03 18:45:06 ptitjes: the component thing? Jun 03 18:45:17 Ainulindale: yep - did not quite understand what you meant Jun 03 18:45:22 I will, when we'll hit technical specs Jun 03 18:45:33 But meanwhile I think as this is the way we'll go you could start thinking about it Jun 03 18:45:35 even not a view mail ? Jun 03 18:45:40 Would you like me to call you to explain that? Jun 03 18:45:51 I can't start thinking a thing I don't understand :) Jun 03 18:46:09 Ainulindale: hum... Jun 03 18:46:23 Ainulindale: then on fix because my mobil is sh***t Jun 03 18:46:38 :p Jun 03 18:46:43 ptitjes: query me the number Jun 03 18:46:56 don't you have it somewhere ? Jun 03 18:47:12 Probably up your ass Jun 03 18:47:23 And no, can't recall Jun 03 18:47:25 grrr you force me to open Contacts and trying to scroll that stupid e list that makes jumps from D to Z ??? Jun 03 18:47:37 Plus I'm doing stuff around the flat Jun 03 18:47:47 Kensan: yo! Jun 03 18:47:54 ok 2 sec finishing the mail on devel Jun 03 18:48:07 Kensan: where in .ch are u? Jun 03 18:48:38 mrmoku: seems to me your script is great Jun 03 18:49:00 mrmoku: it lacks only a mail with instructions on how to fix :-) Jun 03 18:49:23 mrmoku: I'll apply it to my device first if you're willing to wait Jun 03 18:51:14 (woo shiny) Jun 03 18:51:56 mrmoku: heh Jun 03 18:51:57 checking sysvinit-pidof ... installed Jun 03 18:52:02 too bad opkg is dumb Jun 03 18:52:48 root@om-gta02 ~ $ cat shr-update.log Jun 03 18:52:48 opkg: *.ipk: No such file or directory Jun 03 18:53:17 raster Solothurn Jun 03 18:53:57 ptitjes: I won't have much time Jun 03 18:54:04 Genia is almost here Jun 03 18:54:28 sent my mail Jun 03 18:54:50 mrmoku: maybe you would like to replace *.ipk by `ls *.ipk` Jun 03 18:54:55 Ainulindale: see query Jun 03 18:55:09 calling Jun 03 18:55:20 there's a gay sounding man answering the phone, is that you? Jun 03 18:56:44 yep that is me Jun 03 18:58:19 Ainulindale, huh? I tried it and it worked Jun 03 18:58:55 Ainulindale, which version of my script did you try? Jun 03 18:59:11 build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/fix-update.sh is the current one :P Jun 03 19:03:13 Ainulindale, and I should add opkg -force-depends remove gpsd; opkg install fso-gpsd to the script Jun 03 19:07:59 Ainulindale, hmm... are you sure about gpsd? Jun 03 19:08:10 (I'm on the phone) Jun 03 19:08:26 Ainulindale, take your time... will continue to talk anyway :P Jun 03 19:09:24 ahh... it has both gpsd installed Jun 03 19:34:59 Ainulindale, ok, mail sent Jun 03 19:35:27 hi i have a problem with fso-frameworkd :-( Jun 03 19:35:42 whan comes GSM request handling Jun 03 19:36:53 i get an error while requesting resource GSM ... DBus.error.Noreply Jun 03 19:37:17 so i can't use the gta02 as a phone Jun 03 19:38:05 could someone help me ? Jun 03 19:39:06 Interesting mail ptitjes Jun 03 19:39:24 ptitjes: although I think your idea would be a bit difficult and would obfuscate the code Jun 03 19:39:38 I'm fine with both anyway, I'd like to see other people opinion Jun 03 19:39:50 (by difficult I mean: to apprehend for the newcomer/user) Jun 03 19:39:59 (plus, for instance, I see no point in DeleteContacts Jun 03 19:40:00 ) Jun 03 19:40:09 (as a specific screen, that is) Jun 03 19:40:16 Anyway need to cook Jun 03 19:40:40 mrmoku: did you solve the gpsd issue? Jun 03 19:41:01 mrmoku: I just cleaned & am rebuilding tangogps Jun 03 19:41:04 As it pushes the dependency Jun 03 19:41:27 takeiteasy, is dbus running? Jun 03 19:41:40 Blu3: for sure Jun 03 19:41:49 takeiteasy, are you using current release of software? Jun 03 19:42:37 ptitjes: I'd be glad if you raise the topic I just mentioned on the ML Jun 03 19:42:47 that is: is it pertinent to have such screens? Jun 03 19:42:56 meanwhile I'm really off Jun 03 19:43:12 Blu3: i am using fso-frameworkd 0.8.4.9-20090130-4 Jun 03 19:43:15 on debian Jun 03 19:43:49 Ainulindale, well... it has both installed (in the image) Jun 03 19:44:30 i'm not familiar with the debian distro for OM, on SHR, we have 0.8.5.1-gitversion Jun 03 19:44:45 ok Jun 03 19:52:34 fsck. I passed my oemerge uSD to a friend to test (tease) on his FR with his SIM (Telekom-D). After I snatched it away from him and booted my FR, with my SIM (O2-De), mow my TZ is reset to UTC obviously. Worked great before :-/. I really start to hate the idea of automatic TZ setting, and strongly recommend to have a manual setup on first-boot user config, and set the auto to default off Jun 03 19:53:14 mrmoku: it shouldn't IIRC Jun 03 19:56:51 mrmoku: install correct gpsd ... prerm script returned status 1 Jun 03 19:56:51 update-rc.d: /etc/init.d/gpsd exists during rc.d purge (use -f to force) Jun 03 19:56:54 postrm script returned status 1 Jun 03 19:57:24 docscrutinizer, you pinged me earlier, about 'find' perhaps? Jun 03 19:57:48 mrmoku: I don't think it's that bad though Jun 03 19:57:53 Although you should redirect stderr :-) Jun 03 19:57:59 (to the log) Jun 03 19:58:07 mrmoku|away: great job anyway :-) Jun 03 19:58:52 Blu3: about 'find'? no about setting up a script to bring users, decent file permisions, etc to oemerge Jun 03 19:59:24 mrmoku|away: it's complaing again about no ipk Jun 03 19:59:31 (with ls) Jun 03 19:59:49 Ainulindale, well... then download is not working for you Jun 03 19:59:52 that would be nice, but there is another component to that. all the desktop apps need to be reviewed, some of them crash if they don't have full root access to files Jun 03 19:59:58 Ah damn Jun 03 20:00:01 check your proxy settings ;) Jun 03 20:00:02 You're utterly right Jun 03 20:00:07 I still have my work proxy settings Jun 03 20:00:08 i can't stay, i gotta run Jun 03 20:00:12 :) Jun 03 20:00:22 Blu3: I know that Jun 03 20:00:35 hmmmm mrmoku Jun 03 20:00:41 so we should start to fix that soon, really soon Jun 03 20:01:00 root@om-gta02 ~ $ ps auxw | grep fix-update | wc -l Jun 03 20:01:00 248 Jun 03 20:01:16 huh Jun 03 20:01:21 yeah, huh :-) Jun 03 20:02:06 what's that? Jun 03 20:02:12 No idea Jun 03 20:02:14 I'll check Jun 03 20:02:57 It's almost 99% sure it's my fault anyway Jun 03 20:03:00 So don't worry about that Jun 03 20:03:36 hmm... strange anyway Jun 03 20:03:41 yep Jun 03 20:03:51 Did you follow my talk with pb__ about upgrade path by the way? Jun 03 20:04:01 (if you did not do something like for i in seq 1 250; do sh fix-update; done) :P Jun 03 20:04:23 Ainulindale, no just read what you told me... did not read backlog Jun 03 20:04:28 will do Jun 03 20:04:46 I think later tonight I'll do two things Jun 03 20:04:50 Make a patch for assassin Jun 03 20:04:53 And try to make a patch for opkg Jun 03 20:04:58 Assassin should be easy Jun 03 20:05:01 opkg might be more tricky Jun 03 20:05:22 Problem mrmoku Jun 03 20:05:30 Installing netbase (4.21-r34.1) to root... Configuration file '/etc/network/options' Jun 03 20:05:31 * mrmoku loves problems :P Jun 03 20:05:37 options... Jun 03 20:05:48 You should add -force-overwrite and or output that Jun 03 20:06:00 Ainulindale, hmm? Jun 03 20:06:13 -force-overwrite is something different... Jun 03 20:06:14 ==> File on system created by you or by a script. Jun 03 20:06:15 ==> File also in package provided by package maintainer. Jun 03 20:06:19 Well Jun 03 20:06:22 you should add something Jun 03 20:06:25 or display the output somehow :-) Jun 03 20:06:49 don't get you... which part? Jun 03 20:06:59 opkg install Jun 03 20:07:09 if the conf file on the host differs from the conf file in the package Jun 03 20:07:13 and it will Jun 03 20:07:18 then it'll display a dialog with a choice Jun 03 20:07:21 well... it get's outputted to the nohup file... which then ends in shr-update.log Jun 03 20:07:25 What would you like to do about it ? Your options are: Jun 03 20:07:25 Y or I : install the package maintainer's version Jun 03 20:07:26 Ainulindale, can't do that Jun 03 20:07:33 Yes then it'll hang forever Jun 03 20:07:49 no, because i do 'yes 'Y' | opkg ...' Jun 03 20:08:01 well here it hanged :-=) Jun 03 20:08:03 mrmoku: -force-defaults Use default options for questions asked by opkg. Jun 03 20:08:04 it will overwrite the config if you changed it Jun 03 20:08:19 Ainulindale, default would be to keep the config Jun 03 20:08:30 Ainulindale, are you sure you're using the current version of the script? Jun 03 20:08:37 mrmoku: I see no "yes 'Y' " something Jun 03 20:08:43 mrmoku: I redownloaded it two times :-p Jun 03 20:08:49 Ainulindale, then you have some old shit ;) Jun 03 20:09:10 Damn you're annoying :-) Jun 03 20:09:14 Bloody sausagy german Jun 03 20:09:35 Downloaded latest again Jun 03 20:09:37 Still no Y Jun 03 20:09:50 huh... you're right (bloody baguette french ;) Jun 03 20:09:54 Ah for once Jun 03 20:09:59 At least I am sometimes Jun 03 20:10:46 (usually when I talk to ptitjes) Jun 03 20:10:48 (but that's easy) Jun 03 20:11:40 mrmoku: please tell me when it's done Jun 03 20:11:52 Ainulindale, updated Jun 03 20:12:23 maybe the better way would be to treat dropbear special... and only install that one with nohup Jun 03 20:12:26 dunno Jun 03 20:12:50 Nah don't worry about that :-) Jun 03 20:13:03 this is a temporary hack Jun 03 20:13:07 just don't worry Jun 03 20:13:16 mrmoku: now we should make sure gpsd is out Jun 03 20:14:12 I'll rebuild a fresh image Jun 03 20:14:26 mrmoku: will you have some time to talk later on tonight? Jun 03 20:14:31 Say, at 23:30? Jun 03 20:15:54 Ainulindale, will try... but can't promise... have to get up early tomorrow Jun 03 20:16:02 mrmoku: ok no problem Jun 03 20:16:04 mrmoku: ah and Jun 03 20:16:09 we should try to build task-openmoko-feed Jun 03 20:16:14 I did, it failed at some point Jun 03 20:16:18 It might be interesting to build it Jun 03 20:16:26 what's it? Jun 03 20:16:28 (more packages) Jun 03 20:16:44 ah and also Jun 03 20:16:49 we should fix pidgin to put MSN in it Jun 03 20:17:00 eeeeek MSN :( Jun 03 20:17:05 I don't like it either Jun 03 20:17:11 But I'm no one to tell the user what to use Jun 03 20:17:25 but what not to use ;) Jun 03 20:17:32 meh Jun 03 20:17:35 You're a dumbass :-) Jun 03 20:17:48 fine for me (both being a dumbass and MSN) :P Jun 03 20:18:08 will try to build task-openmoko locally... see what happens Jun 03 20:18:24 well i did on the buildhost Jun 03 20:18:25 it's armless Jun 03 20:18:28 +h Jun 03 20:18:33 (armless, what a bad pun) Jun 03 20:22:16 hey guys, are you going to provide a somewhat "stable" version of oemerge (e.g. the 200905291723), or should I create another frawer for that on people.om/joerg? Jun 03 20:22:26 frawer? Jun 03 20:22:35 drawer Jun 03 20:23:00 DocScrutinizer: We will later tonight Jun 03 20:23:05 Worst case scenario tomorrow Jun 03 20:23:08 I'll make sure of that Jun 03 20:23:23 hey guys. Jun 03 20:23:29 what's oemerge? Jun 03 20:23:39 hai onen Jun 03 20:23:46 fredrin: hey, how are things going? Jun 03 20:24:10 been offline for like a month more or less, new record in my life Jun 03 20:24:20 but the Neo has been working Jun 03 20:24:23 fredrin: I have just commited some code, and will work on some GUI improvements, such as number of satellites in sight ;-) Jun 03 20:24:52 oemerge = name of the interim image build while merging completely in OpenEmbededd Jun 03 20:24:52 i just installed 0.3 of openBmap, but havent been outside testing it yet, too cold, hehe Jun 03 20:25:07 fredrin: IIRC you were the one asking for this... Jun 03 20:25:30 fredrin: then run. besides, you will cover a larger area :-P Jun 03 20:25:37 wurp2|gone: can't find the keyboard anywhere Jun 03 20:26:16 onen|openBmap: yes, to know that you could see some satelites even if you did not have a 3d fix Jun 03 20:26:33 just to get info that the gps was running Jun 03 20:30:05 fredrin: then launch obm version 0.3.0 :-) Jun 03 20:30:14 hi onen|openBmap Jun 03 20:30:29 hav you noticed the edit on openmoko-fr ? Jun 03 20:30:31 You shouldn't use openBmap Jun 03 20:30:37 I know for sure the developer is a jerk Jun 03 20:30:41 Deubeuliou: hey. Yes, thanks :-) Jun 03 20:30:47 He's whining a lot about cellhunter whereas it's the best everybody knows that Jun 03 20:31:21 fredrin: Ainulindale, one of the top contributor! :-P (he probably fears that you get a higher score than him ;-) ) Jun 03 20:31:25 * Ainulindale whistles and flees Jun 03 20:31:27 good evening everyone : Jun 03 20:31:27 :) Jun 03 20:31:55 * onen|openBmap looks for his machine gun, and waves Ainulindale so that he waits for it Jun 03 20:32:42 :) I'll do some roaming soon Jun 03 20:32:52 ~seen dos1 Jun 03 20:32:52 dos1 was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 3d 27m 31s ago, saying: ':)'. Jun 03 20:33:54 fredrin: I did a quick fix for GPS status, when not having a 3D fix, in order to solve the first problem you raised (is the GPS on, and what is it waiting for?) Jun 03 20:34:08 onen|openBmap: don't forget about my debt Jun 03 20:34:13 ptitjes: this goes for you as well Jun 03 20:34:21 fredrin: I will add the number of sat in sight in order to get: how far am I of the 3D fix Jun 03 20:34:25 I'm off to eat Jun 03 20:34:27 See you guys Jun 03 20:34:32 Ainulindale: bye Jun 03 20:35:17 fredrin: I was thinking to hide it nevertheless when 3d fix acquired. because it does not bring much info, and it uses screen real estate Jun 03 20:35:26 onen|openBmap: that nice Jun 03 20:35:28 fredrin: does it make sense to you? Jun 03 20:36:17 Ainulindale: what debt ? Jun 03 20:36:27 fredrin: another thing I think about is removing all the buttons from the main screen (in order to get space), and when pressing a specific part of the main screen, you then get a whole screen of buttons Jun 03 20:36:35 onen|openBmap: yeah, but openBmap is no so much about saving screen realastate. It just runs, and when you want to take a look at it, more info is better than less, imho Jun 03 20:36:38 fredrin: ala Mot Mot navigator Jun 03 20:37:05 dont know what that is Jun 03 20:37:46 fredrin: then you have more space for info on the screen. And only when you press a specific part of it, you get all the buttons Jun 03 20:38:39 fredrin: you are right (real estate). But, people are asking more info (serving, neighbours, number of sats in sight). And I got a nice suggestion to make the most important things much bigger Jun 03 20:38:42 sounds like a good idea Jun 03 20:39:24 fredrin: e.g. : a user is looking at his screen in the car, just to see if the serving has changed. He suggested to get this info bigger Jun 03 20:39:38 fredrin: and possibly to make it flash or sth when it changes Jun 03 20:40:38 fredrin: sorry to annoy you that much as soon as you are back. but I prefer to get people opinion in order to not screw my GUI up. So far people liked it Jun 03 20:41:07 onen|openBmap: tranquilo, hehe, i like helping out. Jun 03 20:41:36 and i'll gladly test Jun 03 20:41:39 fredrin: by the way, here some stats: you got 26 cells Jun 03 20:42:13 fredrin: well, that is good to know :-) Jun 03 20:42:13 i know, not so muhc, hehe Jun 03 20:42:39 fredrin: no, no, good contribution, 2500 to go to get back in touch with Ainulindale ;-) Jun 03 20:43:20 fredrin: the last version got the neighbour cells logging activated, so you should get a much higher ratio of cells gathering Jun 03 20:43:40 nice Jun 03 20:43:52 fredrin: and an alpha dbus service is ready in order to get your position out of the obm db located on your phone :-) Jun 03 20:43:57 I'm in Buenos Aires now, lots of cells here Jun 03 20:44:15 ah, cool Jun 03 20:44:29 spaetz: ping Jun 03 20:48:26 fredrin: uhm, can't recall, were you not the one looking at my code in order to add some local db stuff? Jun 03 20:48:37 yeah Jun 03 20:49:17 ST1 : ping Jun 03 20:49:20 i did for some time, but then i did not have internet in my place for a month, put the whole thing on ice for some time Jun 03 20:49:37 :p just to check if it did something fun :D Jun 03 20:49:42 fredrin: sure no problem. you know you can ping me about this if you want Jun 03 20:50:01 k :) Jun 03 20:50:11 fredrin: if you don't have time, put the idea together and post it on the obm forum, or mail it to me Jun 03 20:50:26 for shr , is there a git that i can clone ? Jun 03 20:50:27 fredrin: thus a trace would stay Jun 03 20:50:43 sure Jun 03 20:51:25 ? Jun 03 20:51:52 fredrin: but of course let me know if you keep working on it :-) Jun 03 20:52:14 fredrin: or if you switch to the dark side, of competition ;-) Jun 03 20:53:22 Ainulindale: :-( I thought that maybe the last time I looked I couldn't find that model Jun 03 20:54:25 Ainulindale: I see more promising results searching for "thinkoutside keyboard" Jun 03 20:54:46 The bluetooth thinkoutside stowaway keyboard looks like the new model Jun 03 20:57:35 * onen|openBmap falls asleep while transfering openBmap log directory from flash to sd card to prevent flash from getting old. sooooo sloooooooooooooow Jun 03 20:58:17 Hrm, nope, I see lots of results for igo keyboard or thinkoutside keyboard, but from igo's website it looks as if they don't make keyboards any more :-( Jun 03 20:59:05 So I think it's all resellers or people with old stock. Which is a shame since I've never heard anything negative about the kbd Jun 03 21:12:34 onen|openBmap: I'm trying to run openBmapGTK 0.3; the gui seems fine until a GPS fix is attained. But then it just freezes and I have to kill it. Any ideas? Is there some way to break a python program in a debugger? How can I tell where it's hanging? Jun 03 21:14:59 budfive: hy Jun 03 21:15:11 s/hy/hi Jun 03 21:15:24 hi Jun 03 21:15:25 budfive: what distro? Jun 03 21:15:34 shr. recent unstable Jun 03 21:15:56 budfive: mmhh (have to install one of these ;-), otherwise Ainulindale will kick my ass) Jun 03 21:16:53 is there a way to tell what a python program is doing right now? like gdb in a compiled language? Jun 03 21:17:08 budfive: do you start the logger? or simply run the app and it freezes when GPS fix is acquiered? Jun 03 21:17:43 i run the openBmapGTK app. This IS the logger, i thought? Jun 03 21:17:58 budfive: HOME/.openBmap/openBmap.log will let you know first where it hangs (this file gets overwritten when you launch the app) Jun 03 21:18:02 it freezes when fix is acquired. If the fix is already there when I start, the application comes up frozen Jun 03 21:19:19 budfive: I was trying to figure out if it freezes just when the apps is launched, or if you need to press "generate" button (and thus start the logging loop) in order to freeze it Jun 03 21:19:48 onen|openBmap: let me check. So until "generate" is pressed, the program doesn't really do anything? Jun 03 21:19:51 budfive: yes you can debug it. Once I had a look at it. but cannot remember much about it Jun 03 21:20:07 budfive: http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html Jun 03 21:20:47 onen|openBmap: great. thanks. i'll look into that. Jun 03 21:21:06 budfive: it requests the GPS and the CPU at startup (1st to be able to log when you want, even when you pressed "stop", 2nd in order to prevent suspend if phone follows this rule) Jun 03 21:21:49 onen|openBmap: ok. it doesn't seem to break anymore. :) Jun 03 21:21:57 onen|openBmap: was 100% broken until I asked for help Jun 03 21:22:26 budfive: I am just good at fixing things 8-) Jun 03 21:22:53 budfive: do you have the .openBmap directory located on your flash, or on your sd card? Jun 03 21:23:16 onen|openBmap: flash Jun 03 21:23:55 budfive: if you see it freeze again, try a tail -f .openBmap/openBmap.log Jun 03 21:24:09 yeah. i'm trying to do that now Jun 03 21:24:24 budfive: and try to cover the phone with your hand. this should make the signal strenght change, and thus triggers some logging messages Jun 03 21:24:46 aha. was just going to ask that. Jun 03 21:24:56 budfive: or user mdbus to unregister/register from gsm. this triggers log messages for sure Jun 03 21:25:37 I seed the strength number chaning, but no log is generated Jun 03 21:25:39 budfive: did you modify the config file? Jun 03 21:25:53 no Jun 03 21:26:07 is the log supposed to go into Logs or Processed_logs? Both are empty Jun 03 21:26:13 budfive: I was talking about log messages, not GSM log files (mmmh, not sure I get clearer, am I?) Jun 03 21:26:21 :) Jun 03 21:26:35 ok, sorry. openBmap.log is full of stuff Jun 03 21:26:40 i'm looking at it Jun 03 21:27:04 i think i have figured it out. let me check Jun 03 21:27:12 .openBmap/openBmap.log is the app log. Logs/contains the XML GSM/GPS generated files. Processed_logs/contains the files moved from Logs when succesfully uploaded Jun 03 21:29:05 onen|openBmap: I'm looking at the "GPS Info" in shr settings. If the gps fix is "no fix", openbmap is responsive (but doesn't know where we are, obviously). Jun 03 21:29:17 onen|openBmap: if it is "3d fix" the openbmap works Jun 03 21:29:28 budfive: and the gui states it waits for a 3d fix, right? Jun 03 21:29:41 onen|openBmap: but previously I was in some intermediate state, where tangogps showed the position, but openbmap would freeze Jun 03 21:29:56 onen|openBmap: let me try to recreate that Jun 03 21:30:39 budfive: this should not be correlated. I rely on FSO GPS stuff, which multiplexes the GPS messages Jun 03 21:31:17 onen|openBmap: yeah. got it. Fix is now "unknown", but my position is available and tangogps works Jun 03 21:31:26 onen|openBmap: openBmap is frozen, thoguh Jun 03 21:31:27 budfive: it would be interesting to see if the app or only the gui was broken Jun 03 21:32:02 budfive: ok "good" ;-). do you see logs in the app log file? Jun 03 21:32:14 right now no log data is coming through Jun 03 21:32:23 but maybe there's nothing to log at this moment Jun 03 21:32:44 budfive: try the hand on the phone to make the signal strenght change Jun 03 21:32:47 actually, no. app is fully frozen for sure. It doesn't respond to the "close" command Jun 03 21:33:13 This seems like 2 bugs. FSO should report an "unknown" fix Jun 03 21:33:17 and openbmap shouldn't crash Jun 03 21:33:28 let me try pdb Jun 03 21:34:09 aha. app still frozen, but I got a spurt of data in the log. most importantly: Jun 03 21:34:11 ERROR:root:get neighbour cells info: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken. Jun 03 21:34:24 budfive: the gtk parts handles kill signals, in order to quietly close the app. so the illume cross is supported. but if the gui is frozen, it won't make it close Jun 03 21:34:55 budfive: YEAHHH!!! not my fault :-P Jun 03 21:34:55 so this is an fso issue then? openbmap is blocking in that dbus call Jun 03 21:35:09 onen|openBmap: and I was just about to go blame you :) Jun 03 21:35:44 onen|openBmap: thanks for helping. I'll look into the fso part of this Jun 03 21:35:45 budfive: learn the lesson, never blame anybody unless you are 110% sure it is his fault ;-) Jun 03 21:36:16 budfive: you are kidding me, I thank you for taking the time to figure out what is wrong! Jun 03 21:36:38 ptitjes: for F9N Jun 03 21:36:43 ptitjes: I owe you 60¤ Jun 03 21:36:54 ha oh Jun 03 21:36:57 yes Jun 03 21:37:17 nice indeed Jun 03 21:37:25 Ainulindale: some FSO GPS time out (budfive gets it when tangogps and obm runs together) Jun 03 21:37:35 I did 'bitbake navit', and it gave me errors about gtk_, and it also told me 'Build completed'. I don't have anything called 'navit' in my shr-unstable directory. Is there anything not building at the moment? Jun 03 21:37:59 /gtk_/gtk+/ Jun 03 21:38:05 Ainulindale: obm requests the GPS ressource through FSO dbus calls. could this bring instability with some SHR GPS managing daemon or sth? Jun 03 21:38:17 onen|openBmap: No Jun 03 21:38:23 He has to check he has fso-gpsd and NO gpsd Jun 03 21:38:39 Ainulindale: oh, good point! Jun 03 21:38:49 budfive: did you see last Ainulindale comment? Jun 03 21:39:19 last Ainulindale ? Jun 03 21:39:22 There was a former one? Jun 03 21:39:26 Did I upgrade myself? Jun 03 21:39:32 Ainulindale: hope not, one is enought :-P Jun 03 21:39:57 Nah you can't have enough of me Jun 03 21:39:59 budfive: Ainulindale: ok I am mixing things. the error message reported by budfive is not about GPS but about GSM monitoring interface Jun 03 21:40:12 onen|openBmap: what's the issue then? Jun 03 21:40:28 Ainulindale: ERROR:root:get neighbour cells info: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken. Jun 03 21:40:54 mrmoku: gps is still in the image Jun 03 21:41:09 Although there is a PREFERRED_PROVIDER Jun 03 21:41:12 Ainulindale, hmm Jun 03 21:41:25 I remember having talked about that with mickey or stefan... Jun 03 21:41:34 So did I Jun 03 21:41:35 and why the way we did it is wrong Jun 03 21:41:51 !summon alphaone Jun 03 21:43:16 ok, i'm back. Yes, yall are right. Right now I'm seeing an "unknown" gps fix, but openbmap seems ok Jun 03 21:43:34 So this unknown vs 3d thing is weird, but is not causing this particular issue Jun 03 21:44:02 Ainulindale, thing is... it installs *both* Jun 03 21:44:07 budfive: ideally, I would manage this error, and report it up to GUI for user to notice sth is wrong with neighbours. Jun 03 21:44:13 and grepping for gpsd... shows me Jun 03 21:44:21 mrmoku: tangogps depends on it Jun 03 21:44:26 recipes/images/fso-image.inc: # remove autostart of gspd (if installed), we have fso-gpsd and this conflicts Jun 03 21:44:29 recipes/images/fso-image.inc: rm -f ./etc/init.d/gpsd Jun 03 21:44:45 Although PREFERRED_PROVIDER should squeeze that Jun 03 21:44:53 is there a conflicts in fso-gpsd? Jun 03 21:45:02 and a provides? Jun 03 21:45:06 budfive: but at the moment I have no "infrastrucutre" to push unsollicited message in a nich way to the GUI Jun 03 21:45:21 Ainulindale, tangogps RRECOMMENDS = "gpsd" Jun 03 21:45:24 budfive: I can easily manage the error, and log it in the app log file Jun 03 21:45:31 mrmoku: tangogps sucks balls Jun 03 21:45:39 we could try to recommand "virtual/gpsd" instead Jun 03 21:45:46 -a+e Jun 03 21:45:48 If you're willing to give it a try Jun 03 21:45:50 Ainulindale: that may not be the point ;-) Jun 03 21:45:56 just repackage it and check in control Jun 03 21:46:10 onen|openBmap: fork you! :-) Jun 03 21:46:42 Ainulindale, don't understand that... what do you mean by repackage? Jun 03 21:46:44 Ainulindale: oh no please, there are already too many of us ;-) Jun 03 21:46:53 mrmoku: well clean rebuild then unpack ipk Jun 03 21:47:03 (I'm working on assassin right now) Jun 03 21:47:34 Ainulindale, ok Jun 03 21:47:38 budfive: but what I "like" in the crash of the app, is that it never happened to me or other people I have been in touch with, so this could be a but in the framework Jun 03 21:48:30 onen|openBmap: I have a theory. GSM reception is pretty crappy where I am and the signal goes in and out. I bet this is why I'm seeing it but others don't. Testing this theory right now Jun 03 21:49:10 onen|openBmap: The main problem is that fso dbus calls really shouldn't block for a long time Jun 03 21:50:25 they don't block Jun 03 21:50:31 budfive: indeed. that is my point. to silently "cover" a timeout in the framework, is hiding sth wrong under the carpet Jun 03 21:50:33 they're all async (in fso) Jun 03 21:50:53 and it raises an error for the caller Jun 03 21:50:58 Ainulindale: budfive: I think he meant, they should not time out Jun 03 21:51:10 they shouldn't, but they may Jun 03 21:51:11 if something fails Jun 03 21:51:16 Ainulindale: wait. fso dbus doesn't block? Jun 03 21:51:21 no Jun 03 21:51:26 all calls are async Jun 03 21:51:29 Ainulindale: in the ideal case, or always? Jun 03 21:51:30 (within FSO) Jun 03 21:51:35 always Jun 03 21:51:47 Ainulindale: then something else is wrong. let me figure out this pdb thing Jun 03 21:52:01 budfive: could you redescribe your issue for me? Jun 03 21:52:25 at times (quite often) the openbmapgtk freezes Jun 03 21:52:54 it comes back after a few minutes spitting out that error message into its log (about the dbus timeout) Jun 03 21:52:54 budfive: I once got such issues. A fresh reflash solved it. AFAIR Jun 03 21:53:21 Ainulindale, (openmoko-feed) we should pick the interesting stuff from there and put it in our feed :P Jun 03 21:53:30 mrmoku: maybe we should yes Jun 03 21:53:38 Ainulindale: I thought something (fso dbus call in particular) was blocking openBmapGTK, but you say that doesn't happen Jun 03 21:53:47 trying to build it now... to see what fails... and what works Jun 03 21:54:05 budfive: I run FSO M5.1, and sometimes when I use zhone to watch gps, it hogs the cpu, as tiem goes by Jun 03 21:55:13 budfive: no it should not. obm runs his own loop. dbus calls are async through the dbus channel (for what I have understood). but obm block on his dbus call, until it gets an answer or a timeout Jun 03 21:55:36 budfive: the error would then mean to me, that I call a method of fso, and it never answers Jun 03 21:55:46 budfive: if openbmap is not async it'll bloc Jun 03 21:55:49 onen|openBmap: ah. ok. i understand Jun 03 21:55:49 +k Jun 03 21:55:54 IIRC it is async Jun 03 21:56:39 ptitjes: just replied to your mail Jun 03 21:56:52 budfive: what is async in my soft at least, is when you get dbus signals Jun 03 21:57:06 onen|openBmap: and dbus method calls? Jun 03 21:57:07 Are they async? Jun 03 21:57:26 if they aren't, I owe you a spank Jun 03 21:57:44 :) Jun 03 21:57:47 héhéhé Jun 03 21:58:36 budfive: Ainulindale: I don't think so. your app runs a loop for managing his dbus part. this loop blocks until the dbus call returns. if framework times out, the loop block until this (and for what I have understood, gtk and dbus/python share the same loop, so gui is frozen) Jun 03 21:59:18 onen|openBmap: no Jun 03 21:59:28 onen|openBmap: not if you're async Jun 03 21:59:38 it's queued in the mainloop and the callback is called when the call returns Jun 03 21:59:49 onen|openBmap: check our phone stack for instance Jun 03 21:59:54 when you hit speaker Jun 03 21:59:58 the gui isn't frozen Jun 03 22:00:02 but the call is undergoing Jun 03 22:00:08 (for set speaker) Jun 03 22:01:24 Ainulindale: budfive: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-python/doc/tutorial.html#making-asynchronous-method-calls Jun 03 22:01:38 yes, so what? Jun 03 22:01:44 Ainulindale: so you are right :-P Jun 03 22:01:48 I know Jun 03 22:02:16 You could have skipped the "looking" part and just said that right away :-) Jun 03 22:03:02 Ainulindale: I did not remember of this (a)synchronous thing. But I did it the simple way, because the framework has not reason to not answer me :-P if it starts not answering it probably will fail on othe rthings (I know, this is very lame excuse) Jun 03 22:03:15 onen|openBmap: you're actually wrong Jun 03 22:03:20 onen|openBmap: it might take long to enable some stuff Jun 03 22:03:29 Ainulindale: So to make sure I understand, all dbus calls return immediately, but reply with data later in a callback? Jun 03 22:03:31 that's the problem with sync Jun 03 22:03:39 for instance, if I get my phonebook Jun 03 22:03:41 I have 200+ contacts Jun 03 22:03:45 It takes ~6s Jun 03 22:03:50 That's a long time for a GUI Jun 03 22:03:53 budfive: yep Jun 03 22:04:02 budfive: you call the dbus method telling him "please reply to that method" Jun 03 22:04:05 you continue your stuff Jun 03 22:04:08 when the method returns Jun 03 22:04:11 it'll call your method Jun 03 22:04:15 and your mainloop will handle that Jun 03 22:04:17 Ainulindale: ah. great. So if I use mdbus, mdbus WILL block until a reply is received? Jun 03 22:04:23 yes Jun 03 22:04:25 mdbus is sync Jun 03 22:04:36 Ainulindale: I said my excuse is lame :-P having async calls, would also allow to launch the app even when the gsm is not already registered and so on Jun 03 22:04:48 Exactly Jun 03 22:04:54 Ainulindale: but it needs more attention to prevent concurrent access Jun 03 22:04:56 Ainulindale: Great. Thank you. Jun 03 22:05:01 You're welcome Jun 03 22:05:07 onen|openBmap: no it doesn't Jun 03 22:05:12 onen|openBmap: the framework handles that Jun 03 22:05:15 Ainulindale: but I have already my code full of Locks to manage this problem :-) Jun 03 22:05:22 it'll reply the appropriate error for that Jun 03 22:07:04 Ainulindale: in fact I don't know what is exaclty the problem, but I saw an email about people using cellhunter which were having the app crash when the GSM was not up completely, or sth like that Jun 03 22:07:08 onen|openBmap: and by the way Jun 03 22:07:11 onen|openBmap: about sync/async Jun 03 22:07:16 I ran into the same issue 8 months ago Jun 03 22:07:19 Welcome to the club Jun 03 22:07:22 Ainulindale: that is what I was refering to. And I don't know the details Jun 03 22:07:43 onen|openBmap: well it's pretty straightforward Jun 03 22:07:48 you request the GSM resource Jun 03 22:07:53 If it's not requestable => framework error Jun 03 22:07:57 (see the specs for full info) Jun 03 22:08:01 If you manage to request it Jun 03 22:08:03 You get the GSM status Jun 03 22:08:09 If it's not properly enabled => framework error Jun 03 22:08:12 Etc. Jun 03 22:08:26 onen|openBmap: ophonekitd code might be a good way to start looking into it Jun 03 22:08:32 IIRC I exit upon error on ressource request Jun 03 22:09:02 With an error message? :-) Jun 03 22:09:23 Ainulindale: sure. But this is no pb I think. common async pb. if you call async, then use Lock or sth to manage concurent access Jun 03 22:09:40 Ainulindale: of course, in the app log file :P Jun 03 22:11:22 Ainulindale: or did you make sth very special about handling this in ophonekitd? Jun 03 22:11:46 onen|openBmap: well we have no lock, no need to, not the way it's handled Jun 03 22:11:58 because there might not be any concurrent accesses the way it's done Jun 03 22:12:02 (or I may be mistaken, but still) Jun 03 22:19:19 Ainulindale: mmmh, I am curious. If you have async calls, you have to be careful about concurent access read/write Jun 03 22:19:30 Ainulindale: of course, depending of what you are doing, you may not need it Jun 03 22:19:30 the framework handles that Jun 03 22:19:46 calls are queued in the framework Jun 03 22:20:17 Ainulindale: not in my case. If the loop read the GSM data which have been updated by a dbus signal, it must be sure that nobody is modifying it while it is reading it Jun 03 22:21:32 It won't and can't be updated Jun 03 22:21:42 From the moment it has been sent Jun 03 22:21:46 It's pertinent Jun 03 22:21:57 And if it changes between the time it's sent and received by you Jun 03 22:22:02 You'll receive a new signal Jun 03 22:22:26 I got a signal, and gsm data got updated in my app Jun 03 22:22:37 then i start reading the stored gsm details Jun 03 22:22:44 What do you mean by that? (gsm data got updated?) Jun 03 22:22:50 during this reading, a new signal comes, and start updating it Jun 03 22:23:01 ok start again: Jun 03 22:23:08 Ah yes I see your point Jun 03 22:23:15 good :-) Jun 03 22:23:25 In your case if you want to ensure "transactionnal" processing Jun 03 22:23:27 yes, you need a lock Jun 03 22:23:33 just in your app, in this specific case Jun 03 22:23:43 to ensure you're "queuing" signals properly Jun 03 22:23:47 you might also remove the lock Jun 03 22:23:50 and queue that in a stack somehow Jun 03 22:23:53 and it won't get updated Jun 03 22:24:32 this still may not be possible to happen, because for what I have understood, gtk and python/dbus use glib mainloop and thus when dbus signal it processed, no gtk processing is ongoing, neither glib iddle/timeout_add() Jun 03 22:24:55 you are right Jun 03 22:24:57 well that's my point Jun 03 22:25:03 Again? Jun 03 22:25:04 Damn I'm good :-p Jun 03 22:25:20 this would be another approach, and probably better (because avoid *all* deadlocks and concurrent accesses) Jun 03 22:25:35 onen|openBmap: I see your point nonetheless but I fear you see that as a theorician more than an actual tricky son-of-bastard hardcore developer Jun 03 22:25:42 (which I'm not either) Jun 03 22:25:49 (but I'm a bastard though) Jun 03 22:26:00 * onen|openBmap agrees Jun 03 22:26:03 :-) Jun 03 22:26:36 onen|openBmap: you might have thought a bit too much about your (potential) issues :-p Jun 03 22:26:51 but hey nevermind it works Jun 03 22:27:57 Ainulindale: yes, and it can scale. I can have multiple views, I can turn it into daemon more easily Jun 03 22:29:19 onen|openBmap: daemon is overkill for your stuff I think :-) Jun 03 22:29:54 Ainulindale: ok found it: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/stdlib2.html#multi-threading Jun 03 22:30:10 reads 11.4, under the yellow rectangle Jun 03 22:30:22 well, i started up xchat & ran it for a while, no problem. started up pidgin and everything crashed in about 5 minutes Jun 03 22:30:50 Ainulindale: it depends. imagine the engine would run as a service, able to log, to update db, to give position, to make coffee Jun 03 22:31:31 Ainulindale: that is the reason for th emoment, I tried to be ready to evolve, but for the moment, it is an app, glued to its gui Jun 03 22:31:43 Ainulindale, oops... wrong host :P Jun 03 22:31:59 :-) Jun 03 22:32:06 Ainulindale: the python doc goes in your direction about managing threads, because of the difficulity to manage Locks and other correctly Jun 03 22:32:08 * mrmoku tired and confused Jun 03 22:32:11 time for bed :-) Jun 03 22:32:37 I know about locks & threading & concurrency onen|openBmap Jun 03 22:32:50 Don't worry about that I had a full extensive lesson about that subject over a semester :-) Jun 03 22:33:11 Ainulindale: just wanted to point at, that even the python doc says your suggestion is better :-) Jun 03 22:33:34 onen|openBmap: Oh didn't see that Jun 03 22:33:39 gnight all Jun 03 22:33:40 what're you guys discussing? Jun 03 22:33:41 My solutions aren't always better sadly Jun 03 22:33:44 mrmoku: night Jun 03 22:33:46 'nite moku Jun 03 22:33:50 I just think that in your case concurrency management is overkill Jun 03 22:33:56 Still it's great & fun to implement Jun 03 22:34:00 Ainulindale: possible Jun 03 22:34:04 But one has to implement logic diagrams & such for that Jun 03 22:34:08 Ainulindale: well have to go in bed Jun 03 22:34:16 Ensure no deadlock and all Jun 03 22:34:20 onen|openBmap: Then go to bed Jun 03 22:34:24 mrmoku|away: 'night honey Jun 03 22:34:41 Ainulindale: so conclusion: it works. But using a queue as you suggested is probalby better (as says the python doc too) Jun 03 22:35:14 onen|openBmap: well Jun 03 22:35:19 the best solution is and always will be Jun 03 22:35:25 do as you're more comfortable Jun 03 22:35:27 +with Jun 03 22:35:36 As long as you know what you're doing Jun 03 22:35:40 And you can do it properly Jun 03 22:35:43 Understandably Jun 03 22:35:48 And as long as it works Jun 03 22:35:50 To me, it doesn't matter Jun 03 22:36:05 (there is the "performance" factor too, but let us see a nice picture :-p ) Jun 03 22:36:12 Ainulindale: I would say if you are consistent (defining which method are Lock protected, and which aren't), and calling the method correctly it's ok... but well of course I fall back to: if you do things correctly, it works ;-) well anyway, queue are better Jun 03 22:36:31 ok I'm up with something working Jun 03 22:36:53 Ainulindale: for the specs repo Jun 03 22:36:55 :) Jun 03 22:36:55 ptitjes: talking about your penis again? Jun 03 22:37:07 arrrghhh Jun 03 22:37:48 I hope Genia can't read this, and if ever she does, I hope she spank you Jun 03 22:37:54 :D Jun 03 22:38:20 She went home (she has to work tomorrow) Jun 03 22:38:58 pfff there no english word for malautru Jun 03 22:39:28 Ainulindale: can you create a "shr-phoneui-specs" repo please ? Jun 03 22:42:24 ptitjes: phonegui-specs.git, done Jun 03 22:43:32 arggg Jun 03 22:43:59 Ainulindale: why no shr- prefix ? Jun 03 22:44:29 for all other projects we have the complete repo-location-agnostic prefixes Jun 03 22:44:54 Ainulindale: and why g btw ?? Jun 03 22:45:54 Ainulindale: we could provide features in the API that could cross the graphical barrier Jun 03 22:46:19 we have plenty of possibilities for user interaction: vibration, sound... Jun 03 22:47:17 ptitjes: why what? Jun 03 22:47:36 why no shr- prefix ? Jun 03 22:47:42 (ah no why g) Jun 03 22:47:47 and why "g" in phonegui Jun 03 22:47:51 because it was named phonegui first and seriously it doesn't matter Jun 03 22:47:55 we will be able to rename it later Jun 03 22:48:06 nah we should rename it now Jun 03 22:48:09 it's not a matter of life & death Jun 03 22:48:23 I already named everything like that in what I produced Jun 03 22:48:30 Too bad =) Jun 03 22:48:33 So you'll make a big commit to change everything inside Jun 03 22:48:42 and then we will never change anything... Jun 03 22:48:55 :D Jun 03 22:48:58 Name has to be decided seriously Jun 03 22:49:01 we don't care right now Jun 03 22:49:06 My mind is not set on anything Jun 03 22:49:10 And if you annoy me too much Jun 03 22:49:16 I'll rename it "ptitjes-sucks-balls.git" Jun 03 22:49:21 woot! Jun 03 22:49:23 And you know I'm able to =) Jun 03 22:49:24 :> Jun 03 22:49:29 then if you don't mind why not try to be pleasant with me ;) Jun 03 22:49:46 It's against my religion Jun 03 22:50:02 be pleasant with me is against your religion ??? Jun 03 22:50:08 Be pleasant at all Jun 03 22:50:14 I'll go prey then Jun 03 22:50:19 so that it changes Jun 03 22:50:21 When I'm nice & warm & fuzzy people tend to think I'm like that and then they ask stuff Jun 03 22:50:22 :) Jun 03 22:50:24 And I'm lazy Jun 03 22:50:25 I don't want to do stuff Jun 03 22:50:30 I'd rather be the bad one just for that Jun 03 22:51:26 Ainulindale: and btw I do think name are just very very important Jun 03 22:51:31 they focalize energy Jun 03 22:53:06 ptitjes: that's why I'm telling you Jun 03 22:53:09 don't focus on that now Jun 03 22:53:15 let us all decide together Jun 03 22:53:18 don't go and decide by yourself Jun 03 22:53:20 night guys Jun 03 22:53:26 let us focus our energy on disagreeing with you =) Jun 03 22:53:29 night onen|openBmap Jun 03 22:53:37 brrrrr Jun 03 22:54:13 but still ptitjes Jun 03 22:54:22 I might have the right to say I want to name it that way Jun 03 22:54:24 But see Jun 03 22:54:26 I'm compromising Jun 03 22:54:29 I don't care Jun 03 22:54:32 Let us all decide together Jun 03 22:54:38 Just do the same it's for your own good :-) Jun 03 22:54:42 why would you have the right ? Jun 03 22:54:52 Because I launched the idea, I wrote the first phonegui, and I'm the boss :-) Jun 03 22:54:59 Plus I have gitosis repo rights :-> Jun 03 22:55:04 pfffffff Jun 03 22:55:21 -o Ainulindale Jun 03 22:55:30 arf no there are no op Jun 03 22:55:34 :) Jun 03 22:55:49 ptitjes: just because I may have the right doesn't mean I'm willing to act upon it Jun 03 22:55:53 I don't purposely Jun 03 22:55:53 anyway I'l commit in that stupidely-named repo Jun 03 22:56:00 Because I want everyone to be part of that decision process Jun 03 22:56:10 And I'm not sure you want to impose your choices to everyone Jun 03 22:56:40 yes I do Jun 03 22:57:07 (you forgot your ) Jun 03 22:57:10 frrrrrrr I can't remember the git lines Jun 03 22:57:59 (I wonder how much there was in (irony)) Jun 03 22:58:18 ptitjes: just because I may have the right doesn't mean I'm willing to act upon itCollected errors: * Could not obtain administrative lock Jun 03 22:58:23 woops Jun 03 22:58:24 Collected errors: * Could not obtain administrative lock Jun 03 22:58:27 Was I saying Jun 03 22:58:32 I have that issue, can't remember how to solve it Jun 03 22:58:45 strace should reveal Jun 03 22:58:49 (opkg) Jun 03 22:58:55 yep Jun 03 22:59:02 ah right Jun 03 22:59:05 sure you don't have another opkg running? Jun 03 22:59:10 I forget about strace everytime Jun 03 22:59:14 Nah just lock Jun 03 22:59:17 *nod* Jun 03 22:59:28 (/usr/lib/opkg/lock) Jun 03 22:59:34 i use strace like i use a toothbrush, a couple times a day Jun 03 22:59:37 (I was looking in /var & /tmp) Jun 03 23:00:00 Just compiled aircrack on unstable Jun 03 23:00:04 Their sources are horrible Jun 03 23:00:10 Wrongly ordered includes Jun 03 23:00:26 (available on the feed for wannabe hackers) Jun 03 23:00:32 imo, it should be in /var/lock, /var/lib/opkg, or /var/run/opkg Jun 03 23:00:42 Blu3: agreed Jun 03 23:00:43 i need to update xchat Jun 03 23:01:01 low on my todo list tho Jun 03 23:01:03 Ainulindale: does monitor mode work for the wlan now? Jun 03 23:01:12 No freaking idea Jun 03 23:01:21 Someone asked me to compile it Jun 03 23:01:22 I did Jun 03 23:01:26 ah, k Jun 03 23:05:55 ptitjes: tell me when it's on I need to chmod some stuff to make it available through git web Jun 03 23:06:29 it is Jun 03 23:07:04 Ainulindale: it is Jun 03 23:07:17 (adding ping in case off the screen) Jun 03 23:08:03 Ainulindale: quick explanation (I'll do a mail) Jun 03 23:08:03 src contains the XML Jun 03 23:08:45 gen contains what we generate from that Jun 03 23:08:45 doc the generated docs (not yet implemented but have had support for XSLTPROC in configure.ac Jun 03 23:08:45 it's a bit confusing Jun 03 23:08:50 one doesn't know where to look Jun 03 23:09:28 src Jun 03 23:09:34 source Jun 03 23:09:37 what is better Jun 03 23:09:43 ? Jun 03 23:09:57 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=tree Jun 03 23:10:08 nah Jun 03 23:10:13 it is bad Jun 03 23:10:18 I don't think so Jun 03 23:10:21 It's straightforward Jun 03 23:10:23 Ainulindale: when I first cloned the stuff Jun 03 23:10:31 I did not understand what to use Jun 03 23:10:41 That's because you think differently Jun 03 23:10:50 If they do it that way and if people are satisfied with it Jun 03 23:10:54 Maybe that's because it's good =) Jun 03 23:10:58 Ainulindale: the XML in the folders or the XML in xml/ ?? Jun 03 23:11:01 At least to me it is Jun 03 23:11:07 The overall dir structure Jun 03 23:11:26 Ainulindale: should one use the XML in the folders or the XML in xml ? Jun 03 23:11:29 heh Jun 03 23:11:32 say that Jun 03 23:11:35 without knowing Jun 03 23:11:48 ptitjes: look at it that way Jun 03 23:11:50 I'm used to FSO Jun 03 23:11:55 I know where to look at stuff Jun 03 23:11:58 I'm a newcomer to SHR Jun 03 23:12:02 I don't know where to look at stuff Jun 03 23:12:05 And this is confusing Jun 03 23:12:18 Anyway it's cosmetic Jun 03 23:12:42 ok let us never make any enhancements because others do another way, then... Jun 03 23:13:06 Enhancements are not necessarily enhancement because you think they are :-) Jun 03 23:13:12 First, do as we are used to do Jun 03 23:13:14 Ainulindale: for instance we don't need to strip the doc Jun 03 23:13:16 Then talk about enhancements Jun 03 23:13:22 That is the usual way to do things Jun 03 23:13:41 alphaone, ping Jun 03 23:13:56 ptitjes: I'm not saying this or that solution is better, keep that in mind Jun 03 23:14:09 Just saying that it's not homogeneous, and that is confusing for sure, that's the point Jun 03 23:20:36 BAH! Jun 03 23:20:39 I'm tired. Jun 03 23:20:56 sorry for disappearing (not being active in the last couple of days) man I was busy with R/L. Jun 03 23:22:15 life happens Jun 03 23:24:20 TAsnn: Wrong excuse Jun 03 23:24:29 Go and answer your mails! :-) Jun 03 23:24:35 shit! Jun 03 23:24:37 what mails? Jun 03 23:24:52 coreteam Jun 03 23:26:27 will do Jun 03 23:26:59 btw, is that a known issue or am I the only one who's cellphone won't suspend after a couple of hours/calls ? Jun 03 23:27:06 known issue Jun 03 23:27:08 bug in dbus Jun 03 23:27:21 only solution is to restart the framework, might as well restart the phone Jun 03 23:27:23 cool :) Jun 03 23:27:33 Ainulindale, this is BAD! ;[ Jun 03 23:27:38 Yes this is very bad Jun 03 23:27:42 FSO guys are working on it Jun 03 23:27:46 Ainulindale, did dos1 do it? Jun 03 23:27:48 :) Jun 03 23:27:52 AFAIK they didn't have any answer from dbus guys Jun 03 23:28:44 Ainulindale: i like your dictator style Jun 03 23:28:53 fredrin: meaning? Jun 03 23:29:25 making poor and tired TAsnn work, hehe Jun 03 23:29:35 well I don't force him to :-) Jun 03 23:29:41 Just making sure he knows he has Jun 03 23:29:46 He signed the contract :-) Jun 03 23:30:12 jeje, just having some fun Jun 03 23:30:56 :-) Jun 03 23:31:27 fredrin, don't encourage him :) Jun 03 23:31:38 he doesn't need to Jun 03 23:31:39 heh Jun 03 23:31:43 it's 2:31 am here :) Jun 03 23:31:47 I'm all o ver you TAsnn Jun 03 23:31:51 and I'm after a long days work Jun 03 23:31:58 which means I have till 3/3:30 Jun 03 23:31:58 I will kick your ass until you do what we need you to do Jun 03 23:32:00 to work on shr Jun 03 23:32:25 TAsnn: Thanks for you time man Jun 03 23:32:47 fredrin, thank you for the opportunity, I'm enjoying the ride :) Jun 03 23:32:48 * fredrin likes good cop / bad cop Jun 03 23:32:50 style Jun 03 23:32:55 fredrin, haha :) Jun 03 23:34:13 Ainulindale, hm.. what do you think about migration procedures? Jun 03 23:34:16 should I start with that? :) Jun 03 23:34:26 TAsnn: well I put my thoughts in my mails Jun 03 23:34:34 I'm willing to listen to every piece of opinion Jun 03 23:34:41 And will reply to each of them as I ever do Jun 03 23:34:44 I meant, what do you think about the topic Jun 03 23:34:54 I'm trying to proiritze my responses :) Jun 03 23:35:05 That we should micromanage package migrations Jun 03 23:38:20 Ainulindale, btw, mind changing the ML options that pressing reply will auto reply to list, and not to user? Jun 03 23:38:39 if someone would like to reply to user (not as often as only to list) adding him is easy Jun 03 23:38:43 what do you think? Jun 03 23:39:22 TAsn: this isn't the standard, and this is harmful Jun 03 23:39:39 http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Jun 03 23:40:56 :) Jun 03 23:41:17 (I'm too tired to read it atm, so will just leave it) Jun 03 23:41:51 TAsn: yeah =) Jun 03 23:41:56 we had this discussion loads of time Jun 03 23:42:05 just know that I won't change it Jun 03 23:42:19 I'm sorry but I don't think we're stupid enough not to remember to hit reply to all :-) Jun 03 23:43:52 Ainulindale, actually, last week Jun 03 23:44:00 I got 5 mails that were sent only to me Jun 03 23:44:19 I know, people may be dumb from times to times Jun 03 23:44:24 That's sad Jun 03 23:44:26 But still :-) Jun 03 23:44:34 but anyhow, I'm talking about the cases where you don't want to reply straight to the user, but to the thread in general, though i'll just change my habits :) Jun 03 23:44:45 Ainulindale, ok :) agreed. Jun 03 23:45:23 TAsn: when I'll be less tired Jun 03 23:45:26 I'll explain all of that Jun 03 23:45:45 Ainulindale, when i'll be less tired, i'll be glad to hear it :) Jun 03 23:46:12 good :-) Jun 03 23:46:16 how's life apart from that? Jun 03 23:46:21 are you done with your exams & such? Jun 03 23:46:32 I wish Jun 03 23:46:40 exam period is actually 1 month from now Jun 03 23:47:07 I had stuff I had to finish with work Jun 03 23:47:18 and of course, leisure ;) Jun 03 23:47:39 Well it seems to me you're more focused on leisure than anything :-) Jun 03 23:47:46 Judging from your eagerness to do SHR work Jun 03 23:48:04 hehe :) Jun 03 23:48:35 Ainulindale, don't worry, hopefully I'll finish h.w soon (tomorrow?) and then fix stuff in shr. Jun 03 23:48:49 TAsn: take your time, real life is more important Jun 03 23:49:26 Ainulindale, I use my moko as a real phone Jun 03 23:49:34 So do I :-) Jun 03 23:49:39 which means, shr gets mixed with r/l quite often :) Jun 03 23:49:44 heh Jun 03 23:49:50 for instance, the dbus bug is a deal breaker ;) Jun 03 23:49:58 Too bad you weren't with us on F9N by the way Jun 03 23:50:03 (still using it) Jun 03 23:50:08 Ainulindale, I wish I could come ;[ Jun 03 23:50:13 Yeah I know Jun 03 23:50:15 I really couldn't. Jun 03 23:50:24 I'll probably come to Jun 03 23:50:25 I know it's difficult for an israeli to go in germany Jun 03 23:50:27 f10n though :) Jun 03 23:50:28 * Ainulindale whistles and flees Jun 03 23:50:35 Ainulindale, actually not. :) Jun 03 23:50:40 I like germany. Jun 03 23:50:49 You don't fear the people out there? Jun 03 23:50:53 DocScrutinizer looked pretty mean to me Jun 03 23:50:54 the only issue is work. Jun 03 23:51:02 Ainulindale, I fear no one. *wink* Jun 03 23:51:10 heh :-) Jun 03 23:51:10 Ainulindale, and now for real, are you being serious? Jun 03 23:51:18 TAsn: about what? Jun 03 23:51:20 grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-ARRF Jun 03 23:51:25 You don't fear the people out there? Jun 03 23:51:31 TAsn: How could I be serious? Jun 03 23:51:35 Do I look that dumb? Jun 03 23:51:44 I *know* you fear germans Jun 03 23:51:46 It's obvious Jun 03 23:51:48 Ainulindale, I was scared for a moment :) Jun 03 23:51:50 :) Jun 03 23:52:02 TAsn: I like to play with that kind of thing Jun 03 23:52:18 you'd be surprised to know how many ppl think the way you pretended to think... :) Jun 03 23:52:18 TAsn: A great french man once said "one can joke about everything, but can one joke with everyone?" Jun 03 23:52:35 Ainulindale, hehe, great quote. Jun 03 23:52:46 TAsn: my favourite french comedian Jun 03 23:52:59 Great deal of puns and a great great GREAT knowledge of french Jun 03 23:52:59 Ainulindale, many jokes are misunderstood on the internet... Jun 03 23:53:05 Ainulindale, name? Jun 03 23:53:11 "Pierre Desproges" Jun 03 23:53:12 someone killed Doc's TV-antenna this night. So he's going to fetch the '45 Jun 03 23:53:31 TAsn: well I'm no racist, no antisemit, no antianything but antiasses Jun 03 23:53:41 TAsn: just to make sure :-) Jun 03 23:53:49 Ainulindale, hehe :) Jun 03 23:54:01 Ainulindale, neither am I. Jun 03 23:54:01 Ah and I'm anti that type of guy who boasts about having a bigger car than anyone Jun 03 23:54:07 life is too short to do all of those. Jun 03 23:54:18 Ainulindale, americans? Jun 03 23:54:24 Nah we have that in France too Jun 03 23:54:32 Plus americans are nice & warm & fuzzy, see mwester Jun 03 23:54:43 I'm sure one could think he's a teddybear Jun 03 23:54:50 With all the wrinkles Jun 03 23:55:23 Ainulindale, :) Jun 03 23:55:29 (although what I say is a bit wrong, I'm anticlerical although I'm not antireligious) Jun 03 23:55:47 (I just think religion is dumb but that's my personal opinion that's about it) Jun 03 23:55:56 But I think we talked about that w.r.t. Dawkins Jun 03 23:56:40 guys good night Jun 03 23:56:42 cu Jun 03 23:56:54 ptitjes: s/u/ul/ Jun 03 23:57:17 ptitjes, gn. Jun 03 23:57:17 wow you are in great mood Jun 03 23:57:25 Yeah Jun 03 23:57:26 bye Jun 03 23:57:27 ptitjes, don't spoil it! Jun 03 23:57:28 :) Jun 03 23:57:29 By the way before you leave ptitjes Jun 03 23:57:35 ptitjes: will you be at bearstech tomorrow? Jun 03 23:57:39 For Passage en Scène ? Jun 03 23:57:47 Deubeuliou will be there and so will I Jun 03 23:57:48 oh fuck I forgot Jun 03 23:58:01 Might be a good thing to meet & talk Jun 03 23:58:16 there is a concert tomorow and I must meet a firend (girl) there Jun 03 23:58:18 ... Jun 03 23:58:21 Ah, a girl Jun 03 23:58:37 that is a good excuse isn't it ? Jun 03 23:58:38 I see what you mean behind your not so crude words Jun 03 23:58:54 girls are always a good excuse. Jun 03 23:58:54 Well Jun 03 23:58:54 nah Jun 03 23:58:56 :) Jun 03 23:58:57 You're too old for that ptitjes Jun 03 23:59:05 especially if you are italian/french Jun 03 23:59:13 TAsn: that's overrated Jun 03 23:59:13 I didn't mean anything else than what I said Jun 03 23:59:21 I'd rather go with russian girls <3 Jun 03 23:59:36 s/irls/irl/ Jun 03 23:59:36 Ainulindale meant: I'd rather go with russian girl <3 Jun 04 00:00:12 Ainulindale, :) Jun 04 00:00:19 * ptitjes shows his angel's wings Jun 04 00:00:36 TAsn: by the way I was looking for the word for this jewish tradition about the glass of wine on shabbat Jun 04 00:00:36 * TAsn needs a shave. Jun 04 00:00:52 Ainulindale, in hebrew it's called kabalat shabat Jun 04 00:00:56 (if I got you right) Jun 04 00:01:14 well that's the way you share a glass of wine at the beginning of the meal, am I right? Jun 04 00:01:28 I was involved with a jewish girl some seven years ago Jun 04 00:01:32 I can't recall properly Jun 04 00:01:36 * TAsn is not really jewish (by religion) only by nationality Jun 04 00:01:40 I had to wear a kippa!!!! Me!!!! Jun 04 00:01:46 Ainulindale, omg. Jun 04 00:01:48 Damn it still burns Jun 04 00:01:50 I never work a kippa Jun 04 00:01:55 wore* Jun 04 00:01:55 :) Jun 04 00:01:58 I'm sure that's why I'm growing bald Jun 04 00:02:05 Ainulindale, you are more jewish than I am. Jun 04 00:02:06 :) Jun 04 00:02:27 Ainulindale, oh, was the name you were looking for KIDDUSH? Jun 04 00:02:28 I seriously doubt that Jun 04 00:02:34 I don't stone my wife on account of adultery Jun 04 00:02:39 TAsn: Yeaaaaaaaah that's the one Jun 04 00:02:41 Ainulindale, well, I did a bar-mitzva Jun 04 00:02:43 Ainulindale, :) Jun 04 00:03:05 I recalled it has something to do with shower Jun 04 00:03:06 Ainulindale, I don't have a wife, so technically, neither do I. Jun 04 00:03:15 Ainulindale, lol. Jun 04 00:03:16 (douche which sounds like "dush" is a shower in french) Jun 04 00:03:29 Ainulindale, in hebrew we use dush Jun 04 00:03:46 to describe the shower's pipe Jun 04 00:03:52 I mean the one where the water come from. Jun 04 00:03:52 Yep same here Jun 04 00:04:00 I guess we stole it from you guys :) Jun 04 00:04:13 Well that's because France is the center of the world Jun 04 00:04:20 everybody knows that Jun 04 00:04:23 Ainulindale, that's probably why. Jun 04 00:04:35 well anyway, in order to stop me from saying crappy things Jun 04 00:04:39 I think it's time to sleep Jun 04 00:04:46 Ainulindale, israel is the real center of the world.... Jun 04 00:05:01 (many religious ppl like it) Jun 04 00:05:06 TAsn: meh :-) Jun 04 00:05:11 won't even try to answer to that Jun 04 00:05:14 and many people fight over it for some reason. Jun 04 00:05:23 Ainulindale, (I'm not religious) Jun 04 00:05:28 I know :-) Jun 04 00:05:36 just making sure. Jun 04 00:05:53 I'm sure you're a douche/dush/not-a-shower-but-a-douche Jun 04 00:06:06 Anyways :-) Jun 04 00:06:17 When I'm tired I say lots of stupid jokes I should go to sleep Jun 04 00:06:20 on that bombshell, I think i'll go to bed as well. :) Jun 04 00:06:34 TAsn: Have a good night and finish your homework laddie Jun 04 00:06:44 Ainulindale, thanks, will do (or at least attempt to) Jun 04 00:06:49 TAsn: Then daddy's arms will be there to rescue you from the closed source mobile phone world Jun 04 00:07:15 Meanwhile, beam me up scotty, I'm off to sleep Jun 04 00:07:24 'nite Jun 04 00:07:29 And DocScrutinizer for the record I'm waiting for your observations for battery time with wifi & all Jun 04 00:07:42 If you managed to do some Jun 04 00:07:42 nite. Jun 04 00:09:07 wifi???? you're kidding! don't want my FR to detonate Jun 04 00:11:00 got ~18h of gprs standby *with IRC*, on ultrashort dim&suspend time, and low backlight Jun 04 00:15:08 ok, '45 oiled and loaded. let's go up to the attic, then shoot the pigeon, racoon, or neighbour ;-D Jun 04 00:15:12 DocMobilizer, that's wicked! :) Jun 04 00:15:23 bah, I shouldn't be talking here Jun 04 00:15:29 I should jsut go te sleep already Jun 04 00:15:42 omg, I have a lot of typos, I'm really tired :) Jun 04 00:15:43 night. Jun 04 00:15:55 night, TAsn Jun 04 00:16:14 g'nite Jun 04 00:16:21 heard you go to D? stay away from eastern germany! Jun 04 00:16:44 no kiddin Jun 04 00:17:38 not even I dare to walk streets at night in new-5-land Jun 04 00:33:57 * mwester has a bigger car than Ainulindale. :p :-D Jun 04 00:35:48 of course, with the French autos I've seen, pretty much everyone has a bigger car! :D But my wife says they're "cute". Jun 04 00:35:59 DocScrutinizer, it's the bats! Jun 04 00:36:47 mwester: huh? Jun 04 00:36:54 Your antenna. Jun 04 00:37:56 aaaah Jun 04 00:39:55 well, got no flashlight/torch (whatever is the correct english word), and my M800 battery is dead after 4weeks of switched-off (muahahaha. meanwhile FR is even *better* than eten M800) Jun 04 00:40:42 Well, now we wish we had one of those silly iPhone 'flashlight' apps for the neo! Jun 04 00:40:43 freakin bats, told them to stay away from wires and metal objects Jun 04 00:41:06 Do what my neighbor does -- a big plastic owl on the antenna. Jun 04 00:41:35 actually thats no susbtitute for the luxeon LED in M800 Jun 04 01:49:17 ok, once again I feel quite happy I never had to visit mainland China :-( Jun 04 02:01:17 mwester: pssst hummer is chineese now Jun 04 02:05:15 DocScrutinizer, what image are you running to use the GPRS? Jun 04 02:06:20 gprs works well in shr-unstable Jun 04 02:06:26 DocScrutinizer: what does happen with with gprs and irc when the NOE supsends? Jun 04 02:06:30 neo Jun 04 02:06:41 is it still connected? Jun 04 02:07:57 Blu3, cheers. Jun 04 02:08:00 fredrin, I'm glad I don't drive one! (I'd rather have a land rover, if money were no object). Jun 04 02:08:05 'lo Jun 04 02:08:08 I'm going to be driving 2000km+, and i'm hoping to be able to download maps as needed. means i've got 2 weeks to make gprs work. trying with debian atm, we'll see what happens though Jun 04 02:08:41 does debian use the fso framework? if so, it should work well by a simple dbus call Jun 04 02:09:18 i assume you know your gprs information right, the apn, u/p etc? Jun 04 02:09:44 yes, it has fso. Jun 04 02:10:11 i think i know it - i'll need to double check with my carrier. might make a note of that actually. Jun 04 02:13:10 then you probably just need to issue the dbus call w/ that info Jun 04 02:13:32 nice. I'll check that out. Jun 04 02:14:01 DocMobilizer: hmm, what happened in mainland china ? Jun 04 02:20:50 kamping_kaiser, http://pastebin.ca/1447062 Jun 04 02:28:05 mwester: :) I would love to trie it once though, but don't want to own it and maintain it Jun 04 02:29:47 Blu3, nice. Jun 04 02:51:58 wpwrak: Tiananmen Jun 04 02:52:34 and nothing (to the better) since Jun 04 02:54:15 DocMobilizer: wow, that was some 20 years ago. Jun 04 02:58:26 wpwrak: well the asshole with the dirt under his nose is more than 60Y ago. Nevertheless I don't like ppl who think he was great. And in China prolly even same assholes still fart same chair they did back when **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 04 02:59:58 2009