**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 19 02:59:58 2009
Jun 19 03:13:38 <DocMobilizer> mrmoku|a`, moin
Jun 19 05:48:43 <tobii_> morning
Jun 19 06:04:32 <CIA-45> SHR: 03mok 07shr-themes * r70aef4106cfe 10/frameworkd/frameworkd-config-shr/ (3 files in 3 dirs): frameworkd: fix muxer configuration
Jun 19 06:04:33 <CIA-45> SHR: 03mok 07shr-themes * r855f3cc71462 10/ (269 files in 31 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@shr.bearstech.com/shr-themes
Jun 19 06:16:14 <mrmoku|a`> DocMobilizer, moin
Jun 19 06:16:56 <mrmoku> Weiss, no, does not say that - the only thing it finds in config.log with 'grep -wi oss' is the configure argument
Jun 19 06:16:57 <DocMobilizer> oioioi, what a "patch"
Jun 19 06:17:10 <mrmoku> patch?
Jun 19 06:17:30 <DocMobilizer>  (269 files in 31 dirs): Merge branch 'master' 
Jun 19 06:18:05 <mrmoku> sound rather huge :P
Jun 19 06:19:15 <mrmoku> dos1, morning
Jun 19 06:19:35 <budfive_> is the dbus problem still a mystery?
Jun 19 06:19:46 <dos1> mrmoku: hey
Jun 19 06:20:10 <dos1|school> ending of school year :P
Jun 19 06:20:15 <mrmoku> today?
Jun 19 06:20:19 <dos1|school> mrmoku: yep
Jun 19 06:20:26 <mrmoku> good thing :)
Jun 19 06:21:15 <dos1|school> i have to go to room with poor wifi coverage, so i may got reconnects
Jun 19 06:26:50 <dos1|school> mrmoku: sent email with patch to oe ;)
Jun 19 06:27:26 <mrmoku> oe-devel?
Jun 19 06:28:26 <mrmoku> ahh.. shr-devel
Jun 19 06:30:09 <mrmoku> dos1|school, applied
Jun 19 06:31:29 <PaulF|bipless> mrmoku: hey :)
Jun 19 06:32:37 <PaulF|bipless> mrmoku: i've an idea: how about adding 'nice' to all desktop files in SHR? That way WM will have a higher priority and possibly will be able to kill some extra processes when the system becomes too slow.
Jun 19 06:34:19 <mrmoku> PaulF|bipless, heh... no idea
Jun 19 06:36:51 <ptitjes> gutten morgen
Jun 19 06:37:01 <PaulF|bipless> mrmoku: have you ever faced an issue with the system being too slow and inability to do anything except reboot because of that?
Jun 19 06:37:08 <PaulF|bipless> ptitjes: hi :)
Jun 19 06:37:20 <ptitjes> :)
Jun 19 06:37:55 <mrmoku> PaulF|bipless, yep... had that... more than once
Jun 19 06:38:13 <ptitjes> hum what's the problem with libgee mrmoku ?
Jun 19 06:38:24 <mrmoku> ptitjes, ahh... got spanked. heh?
Jun 19 06:38:39 <mrmoku> ptitjes, you set PREFERRED_VERSION for libgee to "git"
Jun 19 06:38:42 <mrmoku> which is nonsense
Jun 19 06:38:46 <ptitjes> without even knowing why yeah ;)
Jun 19 06:38:49 <mrmoku> :)
Jun 19 06:39:00 <ptitjes> mrmoku: hum
Jun 19 06:39:05 <ptitjes> we already spoke about this
Jun 19 06:39:11 <mrmoku> yeah?
Jun 19 06:39:17 <ptitjes> yeah.....
Jun 19 06:39:21 <ptitjes> with Ainulindale :)
Jun 19 06:39:38 <ptitjes> mrmoku: prepare to being spanked :)
Jun 19 06:39:41 <mrmoku> anyway... in the end it was not even that but the DEFAULT_PREFERENCE=-1 in libgee_git
Jun 19 06:39:51 <mrmoku> (which was you too) :P
Jun 19 06:40:10 <ptitjes> that is related
Jun 19 06:40:35 <ptitjes> mrmoku: DEFAULT_PREFERENCE=-1 is to say this is not the prefered recipe
Jun 19 06:40:36 <mrmoku> ptitjes, well... don't worry... everything resolved... and all the new and nice stuff is building now
Jun 19 06:41:10 <ptitjes> mrmoku: we spoke about those two things with you and Ainulindale
Jun 19 06:41:29 <ptitjes> we wanted this to not the default recipe and being selected for SHR anyway$
Jun 19 06:41:35 * mrmoku wonders if ptitjes starts to talk in pluralis majestatis ;)
Jun 19 06:41:40 <ptitjes> if this is not the way to do it finaly then tell me and Ainulindale 
Jun 19 06:41:56 <mrmoku> ptitjes, thing is... we *need* it. The non git version is too old.
Jun 19 06:42:00 <dcordes-kais> que pasa?
Jun 19 06:42:09 <ptitjes> mrmoku: it might break some other distro
Jun 19 06:42:11 <ptitjes> this is why
Jun 19 06:42:37 <dcordes-kais> you need to put it all in org.oe.dev there's no doubt
Jun 19 06:42:45 <mrmoku> well... mickeyl cherr-picked your libgee recipe with that removed... for ms5.5 and I removed it for shr/import
Jun 19 06:42:53 <mrmoku> +y
Jun 19 06:42:57 <dcordes-kais> at some point. so you shouldn't break other distros in any case
Jun 19 06:46:18 <ptitjes> pfff
Jun 19 06:46:37 <ptitjes> got spanked for nothing
Jun 19 06:46:45 * ptitjes complains
Jun 19 06:48:17 <mrmoku> ptitjes, don't whine ;)
Jun 19 06:48:29 * mrmoku gets spanked for nothing too from time to time :P
Jun 19 06:48:48 <mrmoku> that's life... nobody promissed it will be easy ;)
Jun 19 06:49:13 <mrmoku> ptitjes, especially if you're married you have to get used to it :)
Jun 19 06:50:47 <ptitjes> to get married ??
Jun 19 06:50:51 <ptitjes> what does that mean
Jun 19 06:51:01 * ptitjes complains anyway
Jun 19 06:51:31 <ptitjes> because nobody thanks him when he has done good things
Jun 19 06:51:48 <ptitjes> (exept Jürg but he is a good man)
Jun 19 06:51:50 <mrmoku> ptitjes, well... signing a contract to not complain when you get spanked for nothing... basically :P
Jun 19 06:52:04 <ptitjes> haaa, this is it
Jun 19 06:52:11 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I'm not so mad!!!
Jun 19 06:52:14 <ptitjes> :)
Jun 19 06:52:19 <ptitjes> I like to whine
Jun 19 06:52:34 <mrmoku> ptitjes, well... whine then... but alone
Jun 19 06:52:40 * mrmoku moves ass to the office :)
Jun 19 06:52:51 <mrmoku> to not get spanked for a reasen ;)
Jun 19 06:52:55 <mrmoku> -e+o
Jun 19 06:53:02 <mrmoku> cu
Jun 19 06:53:18 <ptitjes> ciao
Jun 19 06:58:01 <Q-Master> PaulF|bipless: how's the test?
Jun 19 07:07:22 <playya> good morning
Jun 19 07:10:35 <dcordes-kais> hello playya
Jun 19 07:10:47 <playya> hi dcordes-kais 
Jun 19 07:16:56 <dcordes-kais> tmzt hello
Jun 19 07:17:38 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: blood test?
Jun 19 07:17:46 <Q-Master> PaulF|bipless: yep
Jun 19 07:17:56 <Q-Master> http://samurai-x.org/
Jun 19 07:17:59 <Q-Master> 8))
Jun 19 07:18:04 <tmzt> hey
Jun 19 07:18:49 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: everything is cool, i'm not infected :) Got an e-mail the same evening. With an explanation why they choosed pdf for presenting me the results (but no explanation for plenty of ^M in the letter text ;) )
Jun 19 07:19:06 <Q-Master> 8))
Jun 19 07:19:26 <Q-Master> PaulF|bipless: good to hear that everything is ok with you
Jun 19 07:19:35 <dcordes-kais> you should go utf8 dr
Jun 19 07:20:17 <dcordes-kais> Q-Master what disease did they suspect you to have?
Jun 19 07:20:41 <Q-Master> dcordes-kais: me? none. 8)
Jun 19 07:21:58 <dcordes-kais> ehh nvm
Jun 19 07:21:58 <PaulF|bipless> dcordes-kais: i got biten by at least 6 ticks in nurnberg, so i decided to play it safe and did a borrelia LgM (or G, already forgot) test.
Jun 19 07:22:59 <dcordes-kais> seems like a good decision
Jun 19 07:23:52 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: are you promoting samurai-x?
Jun 19 07:24:47 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: it seems to be useless, it's not tiling ;)
Jun 19 07:25:26 <dcordes-kais> nuremberg is in the high risk area for that disease isn't it?
Jun 19 07:26:05 <dcordes-kais> bbl
Jun 19 07:26:18 <Q-Master> PaulF|bipless: just for fun. 8(
Jun 19 07:26:19 <Q-Master> 8)
Jun 19 07:58:53 <ptitjes> bye
Jun 19 08:10:18 <playya> I'm missing a messagebus user for starting dbus on my shr image
Jun 19 08:28:34 <davidfokkema> Hi there, I have question about paroli: how do I start developing for it? I've flashed Om2009, ssh'd in and expected to be able to run python, import tichy, do a tichy.Service.get('Audio') and hack away. But no. What's the workflow?
Jun 19 08:45:24 <PaulF|bipless> davidfokkema: you know about paroli channel, don't you?
Jun 19 08:46:47 <davidfokkema> @PaulF: apparently not. I got this channel from the paroli project site, under FAQ. I'll look for the paroli channel, then, thanks!
Jun 19 08:47:29 <PaulF|bipless> davidfokkema: it's #paroli
Jun 19 08:47:55 <davidfokkema> @PaulF: yes, I'm connected now, thanks!
Jun 19 08:56:43 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: just tested uploading behind a proxy. Seems to work. Thanks a lot (though i still wonder where my "contribution made on 16th gone...).
Jun 19 08:57:14 <Q-Master> PaulF|bipless: 8) BTW, what does this proggie do?
Jun 19 08:58:56 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: openBmap?
Jun 19 09:00:10 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: it helps to make a large database of all cell stations (so one can roughly estimate his location based on cell station he's connected to).
Jun 19 09:07:15 <PaulF|bipless> Q-Master: my numbers in stats increased but probably twitter page is wrong and doesn't show it.
Jun 19 09:08:40 <Q-Master> 8)
Jun 19 09:09:16 <Q-Master> ok. I got it.
Jun 19 10:02:27 <morphis> heyho
Jun 19 11:03:57 <max_posedon> * ERROR: Package frameworkd-config-shr (parent frameworkd-config-shr) is not available from any configured src. [shr-unstable]
Jun 19 11:04:11 <max_posedon> should I just remove freameworkd-config-shr?
Jun 19 12:19:45 <Ainulindale> mickey|zzZZzz ?
Jun 19 12:19:54 <Ainulindale> max_posedon: no you shouldn't
Jun 19 12:19:57 <Ainulindale> and it's available here
Jun 19 12:24:44 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, ping
Jun 19 12:24:49 <Ainulindale> pong
Jun 19 12:24:54 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, will be off this weekend... do some sports
Jun 19 12:24:55 <BillK> a while back shr-unstable booted with the cool "dont panic" which
Jun 19 12:25:06 <BillK> got replaced with a plain white SHR
Jun 19 12:25:19 <BillK> any chance of getting dont panic back?
Jun 19 12:25:26 <Ainulindale> BillK: well I prefered this one too but dos decided to change it without doing a vote :-)
Jun 19 12:25:35 <Ainulindale> BillK: opkg install shr-splash-theme-dontpanic
Jun 19 12:25:41 <Ainulindale> Then you can change it via others (settings)
Jun 19 12:25:47 <BillK> tkx
Jun 19 12:26:08 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: ok :-)
Jun 19 12:26:11 <Ainulindale> What will you do then?
Jun 19 12:26:21 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, soccer
Jun 19 12:26:25 <Ainulindale> Yuk
Jun 19 12:26:28 <Ainulindale> That's gay isn't it?
Jun 19 12:26:29 <mrmoku> :)
Jun 19 12:26:41 <mrmoku> if you play it the french way... yes :P
Jun 19 12:26:44 <Ainulindale> Can't you play manly sports?
Jun 19 12:26:47 <mrmoku> not the way we play it ;)
Jun 19 12:26:47 <Ainulindale> Fencing, golf?
Jun 19 12:26:59 <Ainulindale> Ah you play with a ball with nails on it?
Jun 19 12:27:11 <mrmoku> no... with a rock
Jun 19 12:27:23 <Ainulindale> Sounds better indeed
Jun 19 12:27:24 <mrmoku> balls are for whimps ;)
Jun 19 12:27:35 <mrmoku> (not my balls though)
Jun 19 12:27:42 <Ainulindale> Meh :-p
Jun 19 12:27:47 <mrmoku> anyway... I disabled oss compat stuff
Jun 19 12:27:48 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: upgraded today by the way
Jun 19 12:27:51 <Ainulindale> Seems that all is working fine
Jun 19 12:27:57 <mrmoku> because it breaks stuff badly
Jun 19 12:28:40 <Ainulindale> That is?
Jun 19 12:28:44 <mrmoku> though people won't get that via the upgrade
Jun 19 12:28:46 <mrmoku> do_rootfs
Jun 19 12:28:50 <Ainulindale> Oh
Jun 19 12:28:50 <mrmoku> shr-image.inc
Jun 19 12:28:54 <bumbl> Ainulindale: no, germans play it the english way
Jun 19 12:28:58 <bumbl> hard but fair
Jun 19 12:29:26 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, and there is one open thing to do... libsdl-x11
Jun 19 12:29:35 <Ainulindale> Please elaborate
Jun 19 12:29:41 <mrmoku> I disabled oss for that too... though somehow it does not build it with alsa support
Jun 19 12:29:49 <mrmoku> which part?
Jun 19 12:29:57 <Ainulindale> One open thing to do: what?
Jun 19 12:30:06 <mrmoku> fix libsdl-x11 to have alsa support
Jun 19 12:30:11 <Ainulindale> Ok
Jun 19 12:30:14 <Ainulindale> Is there a ticket?
Jun 19 12:30:19 <mrmoku> don't think so
Jun 19 12:30:25 <Ainulindale> I fear I won't have time to do that this week-end as I have my article to write
Jun 19 12:30:28 <mrmoku> was struggling with that last night... until I gave up
Jun 19 12:30:28 <Ainulindale> But I'll try
Jun 19 12:30:35 <mrmoku> nvm
Jun 19 12:30:39 <Ainulindale> I'll try
Jun 19 12:30:40 <mrmoku> has time 
Jun 19 12:30:55 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, btw.... I'm using fso-abyss now :)
Jun 19 12:31:06 <Ainulindale> Is it nice?
Jun 19 12:31:13 <mrmoku> works nice so far
Jun 19 12:31:17 <max_posedon> Ainulindale, http://pastebin.ca/1466238
Jun 19 12:31:33 <mrmoku> next thing is to enable fsousaged
Jun 19 12:31:42 <Ainulindale> max_posedon: well it's here
Jun 19 12:31:44 <mrmoku> don't know how to do that though
Jun 19 12:31:48 <Ainulindale> So I can't tell :-)
Jun 19 12:32:22 <Ainulindale> max_posedon: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/om-gta02/frameworkd-config-shr_0.8.5.1+gitr1416+63a9ad025034ab07acb914cc9a860e6b0b77ebeb-56+e64f49dc49eb65730aff2481f7f009a192a152ff-r6_om-gta02.ipk
Jun 19 12:32:50 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I'll talk with mickey about it
Jun 19 12:33:36 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, according to mickey fsousaged is prime time ready
Jun 19 12:33:42 <mrmoku> (minus bugs ;)
Jun 19 12:33:45 <Ainulindale> I know
Jun 19 12:33:49 <Ainulindale> I was just talking about integration
Jun 19 12:33:58 <mrmoku> and dos1 said it suspends much faster :)
Jun 19 12:34:07 <mrmoku> dos1 should know too
Jun 19 12:34:09 <Ainulindale> I guess it does
Jun 19 12:34:47 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, btw. did you upgrade with my script?
Jun 19 12:34:56 <Ainulindale> Which script?
Jun 19 12:35:06 <Ainulindale> I didn't know there was one
Jun 19 12:35:14 <mrmoku> shr-step-by-step-upgrade.sh... don't you read our ML ? :P
Jun 19 12:35:14 <Ainulindale> Saw no mail
Jun 19 12:35:18 <mrmoku> nah...
Jun 19 12:35:21 <mrmoku> check your INBOX then
Jun 19 12:35:30 <mrmoku> I first wrote the script and the mail
Jun 19 12:35:31 <Ainulindale> Ah just saw it
Jun 19 12:35:34 <mrmoku> and then synched the feed :)
Jun 19 12:35:36 <Ainulindale> I solved it manually myself
Jun 19 12:36:00 <mrmoku> we should write some opkg replacement ;)
Jun 19 12:36:07 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I just disabled X & framework
Jun 19 12:36:12 <Ainulindale> And it went through
Jun 19 12:36:38 <bumbl> mrmoku: why not use an existing package manager?
Jun 19 12:37:09 <mrmoku> bumbl, problem is that we would have to go away from ipk then, no?
Jun 19 12:37:11 <Ainulindale> Find one fast & efficient
Jun 19 12:37:20 <mrmoku> don't know if that would be easy (and good)
Jun 19 12:37:21 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: or write a class for package generation it's not difficult
Jun 19 12:37:30 <bumbl> mrmoku: well depends but basically ys
Jun 19 12:37:32 <bumbl> +e
Jun 19 12:38:04 <mrmoku> at least then there would be no more bugreports from okpg.org packages breaking something ;)
Jun 19 12:38:29 <Ainulindale> I think we should rather fork it
Jun 19 12:38:35 <Ainulindale> Or see if there's a stable fork
Jun 19 12:38:55 <mrmoku> I checked yesterday... there are three different packages
Jun 19 12:39:06 <mrmoku> and some slow activity in development
Jun 19 12:40:45 <Ainulindale> How are you sure that libsdl is not shipped with alsa?
Jun 19 12:40:49 <Ainulindale> The conf seems right to me
Jun 19 12:41:06 <mrmoku> max_posedon, you could try to remove it with -force-depends and then reinstall it
Jun 19 12:41:25 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, because it does not work... and I checked config.log
Jun 19 12:41:32 <Ainulindale> I just did
Jun 19 12:41:36 <mrmoku> has no audiodriver for alsa
Jun 19 12:41:37 <Ainulindale> --enable-alsa is there
Jun 19 12:41:53 <mrmoku> it was always there... I changed --enable-oss to --disable-oss
Jun 19 12:42:13 <mrmoku> in the sequence of audio drivers libsdl tries alsa comes after oss
Jun 19 12:42:23 <mrmoku> (if you don't explicitely specify it)
Jun 19 12:42:37 <mrmoku> and I straced openmoocow
Jun 19 12:42:39 <Ainulindale> And it still builds oss?
Jun 19 12:42:45 <mrmoku> no
Jun 19 12:42:50 <mrmoku> just the dummy driver
Jun 19 12:43:07 <Ainulindale> Ok let me check that then
Jun 19 12:43:46 <Ainulindale> configure parameters seems right
Jun 19 12:43:53 <Ainulindale> How do you see it won't build alsa in log?
Jun 19 12:44:22 <mrmoku> check the SDL_config.h
Jun 19 12:44:30 <mrmoku> or the defines it says in the end of config.log
Jun 19 12:44:37 <max_posedon> mrmoku, now all even more bad http://pastebin.ca/1466253
Jun 19 12:44:41 <Ainulindale> Just looking at that as we speak
Jun 19 12:46:50 <mrmoku> max_posedon, where does you stuff in /etc/opkg/ point to?
Jun 19 12:48:34 <max_posedon> mrmoku, http://pastebin.ca/1466258
Jun 19 12:49:39 <Ainulindale> mrmoku:     AC_ARG_ENABLE(alsa,
Jun 19 12:49:39 <Ainulindale> AC_HELP_STRING([--enable-alsa], [support the ALSA audio API [[default=yes]]]),
Jun 19 12:49:42 <Ainulindale>                   , enable_alsa=yes)
Jun 19 12:49:45 <Ainulindale>     enable_alsa=no
Jun 19 12:49:45 <Ainulindale> What's that :-)
Jun 19 12:49:53 <mrmoku> max_posedon, looks good
Jun 19 12:50:06 <mrmoku> hmm... maybe the index is borked...
Jun 19 12:51:06 <mrmoku> max_posedon, opkg install http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/om-gta02/frameworkd-config-shr_0.8.5.1+gitr1416+63a9ad025034ab07acb914cc9a860e6b0b77ebeb-56+e64f49dc49eb65730aff2481f7f009a192a152ff-r6_om-gta02.ipk
Jun 19 12:51:10 <mrmoku> does that work?
Jun 19 12:51:13 <max_posedon> ok, I'll try install directly
Jun 19 12:51:18 <max_posedon> (doing it now)
Jun 19 12:53:59 <mrmoku> max_posedon, yeah... looks like the package index is not current... strange
Jun 19 12:54:10 <mrmoku> Ainulindale, could you build the package-index for om-gta02
Jun 19 12:54:20 <Ainulindale> I will 
Jun 19 12:54:26 <Ainulindale> Let me fix this libsdl-x11 thing
Jun 19 12:54:28 <Ainulindale> configure.in is wrong
Jun 19 12:54:34 <Ainulindale> it's disabling ALSA
Jun 19 12:54:38 <Ainulindale> even though it's enabled
Jun 19 12:55:20 <bumbl> DocMobilizer: ping
Jun 19 12:56:20 <bumbl> mrmoku, Ainulindale: which gsmhandset.state file do you use?
Jun 19 12:56:33 <mrmoku> bumbl, the default SHR one
Jun 19 12:56:50 <bumbl> mrmoku: so it differs from the default openmoko one
Jun 19 12:56:57 <mrmoku> bumbl, yep
Jun 19 12:57:20 <bumbl> as with paroli i don't have any sound when calling / getting called and the other side does not hear me either
Jun 19 12:57:31 <bumbl> with shr everything is fine
Jun 19 12:57:46 <mrmoku> well... use shr then ;)
Jun 19 12:57:52 <bumbl> mrmoku: i do
Jun 19 12:58:33 <bumbl> but i regularly test om2009
Jun 19 12:58:57 <bumbl> mrmoku: where could i find that gsmhandset.state file? in which git tree?
Jun 19 13:00:13 <mrmoku> bumbl, in our shr-themes repo
Jun 19 13:00:26 * mrmoku ---> shower
Jun 19 13:04:19 <Ainulindale> that's weird
Jun 19 13:04:24 <Ainulindale> this alsa issue is weird
Jun 19 13:04:30 <Ainulindale> it's enabled but not present
Jun 19 13:05:54 <Ainulindale> Although I think I know why
Jun 19 13:06:55 <Ainulindale> Yeah
Jun 19 13:06:57 <Ainulindale> The directive does nothing
Jun 19 13:07:03 <Ainulindale> Why is that removed from configure?
Jun 19 13:07:10 <Ainulindale> Who did that awful patch
Jun 19 13:07:32 <Ainulindale> No log...
Jun 19 13:39:36 <max_posedon> mrmoku, btw, one small bug, epdfview haven't icon
Jun 19 13:40:39 <mrmoku> max_posedon, yep, navit neither... xchat two :)
Jun 19 13:40:46 <mrmoku> anyway... off me goes
Jun 19 13:40:50 <mrmoku> cu on sunday
Jun 19 13:40:57 <max_posedon> xchat icon is e17 bug
Jun 19 13:57:13 <DocScrut`> xchat one icon when deleting second categories= parameter
Jun 19 13:57:25 <DocScrut`> moin
Jun 19 13:57:46 <max_posedon> yep, same here.
Jun 19 13:58:51 * DocScrut` wonders how to select which category is displayed by illume
Jun 19 14:13:15 <DocScrutinizer> htop icon (err .desktop) totally borked
Jun 19 14:17:13 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|zzZZzz: vala-terminal just does show() if invoced a second time, that might be good design. (no multiple instances). However this concept fails totally for e.g. htop icon which does 'vala-term -e htop', when term is already started
Jun 19 14:20:53 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|zzZZzz: if you do some patches to vala-terminal anyway (for c&p), you might consider to open new tab/subscreen for invocation with -e parameter
Jun 19 14:26:53 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|zzZZzz: I wonder whether 'vala-terminal -e "exit 20" || echo correct' is working properly
Jun 19 14:29:19 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|zzZZzz: sorry can't check ATM, as no ssh to FR established ;-P
Jun 19 14:29:58 <DocScrutinizer> testing from vala-term obviously complicates things :-)
Jun 19 14:31:17 <DocScrutinizer> and I don't want to test by creating a initscript or using nohup now
Jun 19 14:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|zzZZzz: oops, nevermind. This is a illume/e issue
Jun 19 15:53:57 <bkc_> Is any one deploying Debian on FreeRunner ?
Jun 19 15:55:46 <lindi-> bkc_: what do you mean?
Jun 19 15:57:01 <bkc_> I had installed Debian on my newly purchased FreeRunner. But it appears only basica modules provided in Debian site.
Jun 19 15:57:58 <bkc_> I am wondering any one using Debian from their site in FreeFrunner 
Jun 19 15:59:26 <Heinervdm> I think Hackable:1 is more usefull then pure debian...
Jun 19 16:00:32 <dos1> bkc_: i'm just waiting for SHR apps packaged for debian ;)
Jun 19 16:01:44 <bkc_> The bottom line is I need v4l which is supposed to be included in kernel 2.6.28, but I just don't see it in any Debian or so for FreeRunner.
Jun 19 16:01:57 <lindi-> bkc_: i have used debian since last summer
Jun 19 16:02:19 <lindi-> bkc_: v4l has been in 2.4.x already ages ago?
Jun 19 16:09:43 <Blu3> v4l2?
Jun 19 16:22:13 <Defiant-> Blu3: you are looking for someone that uses debian?
Jun 19 16:22:23 <Defiant-> Blu3: works fine
Jun 19 16:22:37 <Blu3> not i, bkc is
Jun 19 16:22:45 <Defiant-> argh sorry
Jun 19 16:23:02 <Blu3> he and he wants v4l in it, i was suggesting v4l2 since v4l is deprecated
Jun 19 16:23:04 <Blu3> np :)
Jun 19 16:36:29 <agg1n> can anyone give me a hint howto use opimd via async dbus calls from vala? 
Jun 19 16:44:02 <DocScrutinizer2> [2009-06-18 22:04:08] <mickeyl> as a UI programmer there is just one thing you need to know about dbus
Jun 19 16:44:04 <DocScrutinizer2> [2009-06-18 22:04:10] <mickeyl> NEVER CALL SYNC
Jun 19 16:46:34 <dos1|away> DocScrutinizer2: he asks about async
Jun 19 16:46:41 <DocScrutinizer2> dos1|away should know
Jun 19 16:47:14 <dos1> DocScrutinizer2: no, i don't know - i have no experience with vala
Jun 19 16:47:21 <DocScrutinizer2> aah
Jun 19 16:47:36 <dos1> DocScrutinizer2: i can tell about opimd interface, but not about using dbus in vala ;)
Jun 19 16:47:46 <DocScrutinizer2> nm then
Jun 19 17:00:06 <dos1> mrmoku|away: Requested 'libcanberra >= 0.12' but version of libcanberra is 0.10
Jun 19 17:00:11 <dos1> (fsodeviced)
Jun 19 17:06:12 <agg1n> sync dbus call works well: http://pastebin.com/d56ea9d96
Jun 19 17:08:47 <agg1n> maybe it's not possible to do it async with vala out of the box?
Jun 19 17:11:31 <mickey|ICE> yo
Jun 19 17:14:26 <Ainulindale> hey mickey|ICE 
Jun 19 17:14:28 <Ainulindale> Did you have my mail?
Jun 19 17:15:03 <mickey|ICE> not yet, having some problems with connectivity here
Jun 19 17:17:23 <KaZeR> hey guys
Jun 19 17:17:59 <KaZeR> Ainulindale, i'm still facing this issue : http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/504 did you had time to have a look at it?
Jun 19 17:18:04 <DocScrutinizer> where is at/batch executable? I only find atd-over-fso
Jun 19 17:19:02 <DocScrutinizer> atd without at is hummm... a pitty
Jun 19 17:20:37 <Ainulindale> KaZeR: I have no time right now sorry
Jun 19 17:24:56 <Ainulindale> mickey|ICE ?
Jun 19 17:25:14 <Ainulindale> mickey|ICE: I think you should elaborate on how to use the framework with a simple example (for instance GSM registration and placing a call)
Jun 19 17:32:35 <dos1> ~seen mirko-paroli
Jun 19 17:32:36 <bzzbot_> mirko-paroli <n=mirko@91-64-217-87-dynip.superkabel.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 22d 20h 10m 30s ago, saying: 'alphaone: any news on the suspend problem in fso ?'.
Jun 19 17:33:02 <dos1> ~seen nytowl
Jun 19 17:33:03 <bzzbot_> nytowl <n=nytowl@S0106001c100a3234.cg.shawcable.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 9d 3h 50m 12s ago, saying: 'mirko, it's in /etc/freesmartphone/oeventsd/rules.yaml'.
Jun 19 17:33:27 <dos1> well... i have suggestion about using x11-16 engine in Paroli as default
Jun 19 17:33:43 <dos1> in look'n'feel it doesn't change anything, except resposibility and speed :P
Jun 19 17:33:52 <dos1> (in paroli)
Jun 19 17:34:08 <Blu3> responsivity?
Jun 19 17:34:12 <Blu3> :)
Jun 19 17:34:37 <dos1> Blu3: yep :D
Jun 19 17:34:59 <dos1> Blu3: my english isn't so good ;)
Jun 19 17:35:07 <Blu3> no problem :)
Jun 19 17:35:43 <KaZeR> Ainulindale, no pb. i hope someone will be able to have a look
Jun 19 17:39:22 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen vegiraupe
Jun 19 17:39:24 <bzzbot_> DocScrutinizer: i haven't seen 'vegiraupe'
Jun 19 17:40:32 <Ainulindale> mickey|ICE: did you have my last message?
Jun 19 17:40:42 <Ainulindale> I guess not
Jun 19 17:43:05 <mickey|train> darn
Jun 19 17:43:22 <mickey|train> winmobile sucks
Jun 19 17:43:26 <Ainulindale> 19:25:23 < Ainulindale> mickey|ICE: I think you should elaborate on how to use the framework with a simple example (for  instance GSM registration and placing a call)
Jun 19 17:43:55 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|train: really? ;-P
Jun 19 17:44:04 <mickey|train> Ainulindale: ok, will do that
Jun 19 17:44:11 <mickey|train> DocScrutinizer: yeah, it's doing someting strange to my network forwarding
Jun 19 17:44:28 <Ainulindale> mickey|train: and I sent you a mail for last part
Jun 19 17:44:29 <mickey|train> i would have used fso, but forgot to bring some iptable modules *sigh*
Jun 19 17:44:40 <Ainulindale> Overall it's very interesting but I'll adapt it a bit if you don't mind
Jun 19 17:44:58 <Ainulindale> I have to merge that with H:1 material
Jun 19 17:45:04 <mickey|train> Ainulindale: sure, change as you see fit.
Jun 19 17:45:16 <Ainulindale> mickey|train: And I'll see how it goes for author fees
Jun 19 17:45:26 <Ainulindale> If it's easy for them to handle foreign people
Jun 19 17:45:34 <Ainulindale> Then I'll just ask what they need and will forward that to you
Jun 19 17:46:22 <mickey|train> as you like, i don't mind you getting it, forwarding what you think should be my share
Jun 19 17:46:45 <Ainulindale> I'm too honest for that
Jun 19 17:47:21 <mickey|train> hehe
Jun 19 17:47:44 <Ainulindale> Ah and don't forget that if you need to crash somewhere in Paris you're welcome :-)
Jun 19 17:47:48 <Ainulindale> (for your trip next month)
Jun 19 17:47:53 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|train: yaml rules aren't supported by a comprehensive man page it seems.
Jun 19 17:48:16 <mickey|train> waaah, for some reason web nor imap goes through this damn OS
Jun 19 17:49:04 <mickey|train> Ainulindale: thanks, I'm bringing Sabine (and for two days my mother in law) though, so we will take a hotel this time.
Jun 19 17:49:07 <mickey|train> DocScrutinizer: yalm rules need to die ;)
Jun 19 17:49:12 <Ainulindale> mickey|train: ok :-)
Jun 19 17:49:23 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r04dc6fa65312 10/misc-vapi/vapi/Makefile.am: misc-vapi: install libasound.vapi
Jun 19 17:49:24 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r2dcd723c0be9 10/libfsoframework/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsoframework: create skeleton for sound system; requires alsa now
Jun 19 17:49:28 <mickey|train> much of the complexity was to handle the phone ringing ...
Jun 19 17:49:31 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|train: could we get a rule for idle state that cares about cpu usage (like batch)?
Jun 19 17:49:49 <Ainulindale> mickey|train: Is there some info by the way on how we could mix fsod/frameworkd now?
Jun 19 17:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|train: ooh, so what's supposed replacement for yaml
Jun 19 17:50:31 <mickey|train> ... which at the end of the day should be handled by the dialer in the first place
Jun 19 17:50:31 <mickey|train> so my plan for some day is to come up with something more simple
Jun 19 17:50:31 <mickey|train> for oeventsd
Jun 19 17:50:32 <mickey|train> i still think there's some merit in the concept of a flexible rules engine
Jun 19 17:50:34 <mickey|train> i just completely not like the way oeventsd is implemented atm.
Jun 19 17:51:14 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|train: ack, I see
Jun 19 17:51:18 <mickey|train> Ainulindale: yeah, please see the last comment of FSO #435
Jun 19 17:51:53 <Ainulindale> mickey|train: ah and I intended to test eglibc ASAP
Jun 19 17:52:01 <Ainulindale> I don't know what it could impact on
Jun 19 17:52:48 <mickey|train> eglibc 2.9 would be appreciated
Jun 19 17:52:57 <Ainulindale> I think so
Jun 19 17:53:06 <mickey|train> eventsfd and friends rock
Jun 19 17:53:37 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Jun 19 17:53:40 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Jun 19 17:53:59 <DocScrutinizer> that's what I thought when I first read about it
Jun 19 17:55:56 <mickey|train> ah btw.
Jun 19 17:56:08 <mickey|train> i decided to throw away libascenario and to everything directly with libasound
Jun 19 17:56:21 <Ainulindale> you're nasty
Jun 19 17:56:53 <mickey|train> i will first implement everything necessary to load/save complete scenarios to have backwards compatibility with fso1
Jun 19 17:57:08 <mickey|train> and then we can work on merging your fine granular audio path stuff
Jun 19 17:57:50 <mickey|train> ya, well, libascenario didn't work and then i looked at the code and didn't like it ;)
Jun 19 17:58:03 <mickey|train> one indirection less ;)
Jun 19 17:58:06 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|train: scenario: GPRS inbound traffic resumes device. Intended behaviour: screen stays locked and dim, suspend kicks in as soon as no app is in state "running" anymore (means inbound data is supposed to be processed). We need a blacklist to ignore broken greedy apps that never go to state "sleep" for reasonable time
Jun 19 17:59:56 <mickey|train> i see your intentions, sounds quite cool, but not exactly simple 
Jun 19 18:00:23 <DocScrutinizer> yup, thus my questions about batch, yaml, etc
Jun 19 18:00:54 <DocScrutinizer> where is at/batch executable? I only find atd-over-fso
Jun 19 18:01:00 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i have so much extra ip traffic that the phone keeps waking up all the tim
Jun 19 18:01:01 <DocScrutinizer> atd without at is hummm... a pitty
Jun 19 18:01:07 <mickey|train> no idea, never did anything with at(d)
Jun 19 18:02:08 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: well there's few we can do abot that. I wonder how you get that spam though
Jun 19 18:02:50 <DocScrutinizer> here IRC via GPRS with resume works rather reasonable
Jun 19 18:02:56 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: tcpdump shows windows network
Jun 19 18:03:12 <DocScrutinizer> ouuuuuch
Jun 19 18:03:14 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: scans from automated bots
Jun 19 18:03:28 <DocScrutinizer> nasty operator
Jun 19 18:03:36 <lindi-> no firewall
Jun 19 18:03:49 <DocScrutinizer> GPRS should be rather tight for this
Jun 19 18:03:55 <DocScrutinizer> yup exactly
Jun 19 18:04:15 <DocScrutinizer> no decent NAT, to be specific
Jun 19 18:04:18 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: does irc not ping all the time?
Jun 19 18:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, not here
Jun 19 18:04:49 <DocScrutinizer> maybe once a minute, or even less
Jun 19 18:05:10 <lindi-> wont that wake the phone really often?
Jun 19 18:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> well, it does. like once/min
Jun 19 18:05:54 <lindi-> oh
Jun 19 18:06:26 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: anyway by setting suspend timers all to min, a got IRC standby times of >14h
Jun 19 18:06:34 <DocScrutinizer> on battery
Jun 19 18:06:38 <lindi-> ok
Jun 19 18:07:19 <DocScrutinizer> and most wakes were due to join(leave msgs >:-(
Jun 19 18:07:32 <lindi-> i just would need to configure this to not unblank the display on resume
Jun 19 18:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> also I want a way faster suspend after resume from GPRS (or any other "non-interactive") resume
Jun 19 18:09:39 <DocScrutinizer> and a ts-lock to not accidentally issue user-interaction
Jun 19 18:10:44 <DocScrutinizer> also it's a PITA to reset the auto-dim if timers are set to 1sec ;-)
Jun 19 18:11:06 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: imho ogsmd sends way too many commands on suspend/resume
Jun 19 18:11:38 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i would prefer to keep calypso as quiet as possible all the time and not change the verbosity settings on resume/suspend
Jun 19 18:11:53 <DocScrutinizer> all this needs some love and polishing, to become a smoothly running scheme
Jun 19 18:12:33 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: (verbosity) talk to mickey| about this ;-)
Jun 19 18:12:49 <mickey|> well
Jun 19 18:12:57 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: i agree basically
Jun 19 18:13:03 <mickey|> once everything is stable, we can think about profiles or such
Jun 19 18:13:09 <mickey|> but different people have different usecasees
Jun 19 18:13:15 <mickey|> the gps loggers need the verbosity
Jun 19 18:13:29 <mickey|> the want live signal strength and registration updates
Jun 19 18:13:46 <mickey|> some people want cell broadcasts
Jun 19 18:14:01 <mickey|> so there's different needs to take into account
Jun 19 18:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|: maybe gps loggers need to allocate a resource for that? (hint, hint)
Jun 19 18:14:50 <DocScrutinizer> lol, changing trains in a hurry? ;-)
Jun 19 18:14:54 <mickey|ICE79> i will think about that for fsogsmd
Jun 19 18:15:09 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|ICE79: cool
Jun 19 18:15:11 <mickey|ICE79> fso2 will introduce some slight API changes for ogsmd anyways
Jun 19 18:15:32 <mickey|ICE79> still waiting for vala's async dbus support though before this work can continue
Jun 19 18:15:51 <DocScrutinizer> wuerg
Jun 19 18:16:24 <DocScrutinizer> waiting for dbus to handle async correctly at all
Jun 19 18:17:29 <mickey|ICE79> well, it's not too bad until you use it like we do
Jun 19 18:17:32 <mickey|ICE79> :)
Jun 19 18:19:33 <DocScrutinizer> alas this seems to render whole fso unreliable :-/
Jun 19 18:20:02 <mickey|ICE79> w/ fsousage it way more stable
Jun 19 18:20:08 <mickey|ICE79> that alone makes a difference
Jun 19 18:20:29 <mickey|ICE79> plus some bugfixes in OccupyResource action
Jun 19 18:20:29 <mickey|ICE79> but that's not finished yet
Jun 19 18:20:35 <DocScrutinizer> which in turn makes users think about fso based distros as not fit for daily use
Jun 19 18:21:03 <mickey|ICE79> yep
Jun 19 18:21:15 <mickey|ICE79> well, there's always the last released milestone
Jun 19 18:22:28 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, time for Schäufele ;-)    yummy
Jun 19 18:22:36 <mickey|ICE79> bon appetit
Jun 19 18:23:24 <DocScrutinizer> merci beaucoup
Jun 19 18:27:23 <DocMobilizer> k, away.bbl
Jun 19 18:50:11 <DocMobilizer> mickey|ICE79, (ring by dialer) to be honest this should be done by syscall() from dialer. see twinklephone callscripts
Jun 19 18:53:22 <mickey|ICE79> syscall?
Jun 19 18:53:36 <mickey|ICE79> you want kernel support for ringtones?
Jun 19 18:56:00 <mickey|ICE79> fsodeviced will have a pretty fast function to play an arbitrary sound
Jun 19 18:56:13 <bumbl> mickey|ICE79: if you have time (tomorrow,...) could you look into #443 (trac.freesmartphone.org) and tell me if you need more information
Jun 19 18:56:19 <mickey|ICE79> the rest should be out of FSO's responsiblities
Jun 19 18:56:32 <mickey|ICE79> bumbl: i'm away over the weekend
Jun 19 18:56:40 <bumbl> ah ok no problem
Jun 19 18:56:50 <mickey|ICE79> on my way to Zuric
Jun 19 18:56:51 <mickey|ICE79> h
Jun 19 18:56:59 <bumbl> this just means i'll flash shr
Jun 19 18:57:04 <mickey|ICE79> good plan
Jun 19 18:57:07 <bumbl> nice town
Jun 19 18:57:24 <bumbl> 2009.07.19 15:31:33.197 dbus.connection      ERROR    Unable to set arguments ('ResourceAvailable', <bound method AutoFunctionMetaClass.onResourceAvailable of <class 'oeventsd.fso_actions.OccupyResourceAction'>>) according to signature None: <type 'exceptions.TypeError'>: Don't know how which D-Bus type to use to encode type "instancemethod"
Jun 19 18:57:37 <bumbl> i get some of this errors
Jun 19 18:58:07 <bumbl> when starting or receiving a call with paroli
Jun 19 18:58:21 <mickey|ICE79> yeah, i think that's the regression i built in with the last commit
Jun 19 18:58:25 <bumbl> and i have no sound for both sides
Jun 19 18:58:27 <mickey|ICE79> use HEAD^1
Jun 19 18:58:39 <bumbl> or shr
Jun 19 18:58:41 <bumbl> ;)
Jun 19 18:58:53 <mickey|ICE79> well
Jun 19 18:59:03 <mickey|ICE79> if shr is using HEAD, then this won't help you
Jun 19 18:59:18 <mickey|ICE79> i have no time to fix it until next week
Jun 19 18:59:21 <bumbl> it helps so far as shr has no daily builds
Jun 19 18:59:43 <bumbl> and with older paroli images i have other issues
Jun 19 18:59:46 <mickey|ICE79> ya, i never understood the insanity of daily builds
Jun 19 19:00:06 <mickey|ICE79> i rather prefer handpicked packages in an update feed
Jun 19 19:00:07 <mickey|ICE79> *shrug*
Jun 19 19:00:25 <mickey|ICE79> leaving germany, need to log out
Jun 19 19:00:27 <mickey|ICE79> l8er
Jun 19 19:03:23 <DocMobilizer> mickey|ICE79, (syscall) sorry, used wrong word i guess. I meant simple call of arbitrary executable (scrpt, ELF) with stdin piping info like caller#, and stdout triggering all possible dialer reaktions like reject, accept, play (or not) ringtone, etc
Jun 19 19:06:49 <DocMobilizer> dos1, ^ this of interest to you?
Jun 19 19:08:06 <DocMobilizer> i'll help to take over tHc|Deubeuliou rather :(
Jun 19 19:09:09 <DocMobilizer> FIVE lines of quir-msg. Baah
Jun 19 19:11:39 <Blu3> ?
Jun 19 19:12:36 <DocMobilizer> Blu3, nevermind
Jun 19 19:13:26 <DocMobilizer> just adding spam to spam. I shouldn't do
Jun 19 19:15:26 <DocMobilizer> well, finally i like xchat *much* better than pidgin/purple.
Jun 19 19:16:09 <Blu3> yup.  irc interface is better
Jun 19 19:18:45 <DocMobilizer> but could anybody tell me key shortcut to join channel? or, much better, an alternative to F10/RMB to re-enable menubar ( as shortcut for chanjoin prolly is / j o i n  ;-)
Jun 19 19:20:40 <McKael> gug
Jun 19 19:21:25 <McKael> Do you know if one can use a non-qwerty kbd with SHR's X?
Jun 19 19:21:30 <Blu3> bind /j to /join
Jun 19 19:21:43 <DocMobilizer> gug?
Jun 19 19:21:45 <Blu3> xchat uses /j
Jun 19 19:22:47 <McKael> DocMobilizer: Generic UTC Greeting
Jun 19 19:24:38 <PaulFert`> McKael: guys are even using hebrew keyboard :)
Jun 19 19:26:59 <DocMobilizer> PaulFert`, hey! o/
Jun 19 19:27:14 <McKael> PaulFert`: hi!
Jun 19 19:28:03 <McKael> PaulFert`: actually I forgot a small detail... I'm thinking about an external kbd.
Jun 19 19:28:33 <McKael> I'm currently using an azerty BT keyboard
Jun 19 19:29:45 <PaulFert`> DocMobilizer: Hallo :D
Jun 19 19:30:03 <PaulFert`> McKael: i hope that SHR is or will be very soon using a standard X.org server.
Jun 19 19:31:26 <McKael> Speaking about keyboards... I've noticed something annoying lately: some apps loose focus
Jun 19 19:31:31 <PaulFert`> McKael: so the answer is that the external keyboard should work the same. And in case it's just an external azerty keyboard i think Xglamo will work as well, it should support some subset of xmodmap/xkb. fyi xglamo is kdrive-based.
Jun 19 19:31:33 <DocMobilizer> with RMB support - yeah
Jun 19 19:31:54 <McKael> typically rxvt. links2...
Jun 19 19:33:21 <McKael> PaulFert`: well... how would I change Xglamo's layout?
Jun 19 19:34:29 <DocMobilizer> who's maintainer of shr-dialer?
Jun 19 19:36:02 <McKael> If someone wants to try my focus issue: start an rxvt, jump to another window, get back to rxvt and try to write something.
Jun 19 19:36:51 <McKael> It used to work very well so I don't know if it's only me or if it was introduced with recent E changes
Jun 19 19:37:24 <DocMobilizer> FSCK! messed up xchat by touching left border
Jun 19 19:37:59 <DocMobilizer> now right side cutoff once again
Jun 19 19:38:12 <Blu3> heheheh
Jun 19 19:38:24 <DocMobilizer> no way to recover :-(
Jun 19 19:38:37 <Blu3> rotate your FR and drag it back
Jun 19 19:39:05 <DocMobilizer> haha
Jun 19 19:40:11 <DocMobilizer> kick ass ofwhoever messed xchat screenwidth calculation! grrrrrr
Jun 19 19:40:35 <Blu3> heheh
Jun 19 19:41:53 <DocMobilizer> bye
Jun 19 19:43:17 <DocMobilizer> re
Jun 19 19:43:28 <McKael> re
Jun 19 19:43:35 <Blu3> ere
Jun 19 19:43:48 * McKael hasn't tried xchat yet
Jun 19 19:44:14 <DocMobilizer> "you have been D-lined" whatever THAT means
Jun 19 19:47:44 <dos1> DocMobilizer: shr-dialer?
Jun 19 19:48:01 <DocMobilizer> you?
Jun 19 19:49:29 <dos1> DocMobilizer: no. but i know shr-dialer is just small wrapper around phonegui
Jun 19 19:49:35 <DocMobilizer> washdc is a nice one ;-D
Jun 19 19:49:42 <dos1> as shr-contacts and shr-messages
Jun 19 19:49:55 <DocMobilizer> dos1, ooh
Jun 19 19:57:44 <Heinervdm> why can't OE update vagalume to 0.7.1? it's so easy...
Jun 19 20:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: so I think I'll postpone the plan to go and fix the green=left, red=right issues with shr-dialer|messages|contacts by myself
Jun 19 20:03:18 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: it's not hard
Jun 19 20:03:24 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: i think i'll do it in few days
Jun 19 20:04:25 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: what about my idea to open a list of last ~10 outbound calls for quick redial, on pressing "Call" on an empty number textfield?
Jun 19 20:04:49 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: only after clearly defining interface to read/store that list
Jun 19 20:04:54 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: (opimd i think)
Jun 19 20:05:00 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: but idea is good
Jun 19 20:05:02 <dos1> ;)
Jun 19 20:05:06 <DocScrutinizer> with most recent call highlighted and selected on a second hit to this button
Jun 19 20:05:48 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: think we got that list already in phonelog app
Jun 19 20:06:00 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: temporialy
Jun 19 20:07:44 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: [2009-06-19 21:03:22] <DocMobilizer> mickey|ICE79, (syscall) sorry, used wrong word i guess. I meant simple call of arbitrary executable (scrpt, ELF) with stdin piping info like caller#, and stdout triggering all possible dialer reaktions like reject, accept, play (or not) ringtone, etc
Jun 19 20:08:24 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: that's about dialer handling ringtones etc
Jun 19 20:09:18 <[Rui]> hi
Jun 19 20:09:44 <[Rui]> so I should be wasting my weekend recompiling my openembedded environment?
Jun 19 20:10:06 <[Rui]> fso-unstable had problems with various svn libraries, same as as fso-testing
Jun 19 20:10:45 <[Rui]> if I want to release ipks to the general public of shr or om2009 what should I use?
Jun 19 20:11:05 <[Rui]> fso-milestone5.5 , fso-testing  or fso-unstable ?
Jun 19 20:11:11 <[Rui]> or another?
Jun 19 20:12:33 <DocScrutinizer> rui: probably the fso version the distro uses you are publishing your ipkg for, no?
Jun 19 20:14:15 <DocScrutinizer> after all that's the whole point about distros
Jun 19 20:14:53 <[Rui]> well when I was doing it, previously, with fso-milestone5 it worked on shr and Om2008.12
Jun 19 20:15:02 <[Rui]> now with Om2009 will it work as well?
Jun 19 20:15:31 <[Rui]> Is fso-milestong5.5 Om2009 test 5 ?
Jun 19 20:16:07 <[Rui]> shr and Om2009 used to be fairly binary and package compatible
Jun 19 20:16:42 <DocScrutinizer> well that's by incidence, but not a guaranteed feature I guess
Jun 19 20:17:36 <DocScrutinizer> I can tell for sure SHR scenarii are NOT compatible to standard OM scenarios anymore ATM
Jun 19 20:17:50 <DocScrutinizer> for instance
Jun 19 20:18:03 <[Rui]> yeah, but since it's kind of space-wasteful and it takes a long time to compile anything in openebedded
Jun 19 20:18:16 <[Rui]> what would be the best recommendation for the moment in your opinion?
Jun 19 20:18:46 <DocScrutinizer> I'm no distro-maintainer for any of those. So no idea here, sorry
Jun 19 20:18:51 <[Rui]> it's just that it's quite frustrating to take two days compiling and then I can't use the ipk without replacing quite important libraries :(
Jun 19 20:19:25 <[Rui]> since I use the phone on a daily basis as a... phone... it would be kind of boring (to say the least) to break it :)
Jun 19 20:20:12 <DocScrutinizer> that's why ipkgs are distro specific AIUI
Jun 19 20:20:52 <DocScrutinizer> or any .rpm | .deb is wrt that
Jun 19 20:22:14 <[Rui]> DocMobilizer: I use fairly basic stuff so I don't expect serious differences at the moment between shr and om2009 for what I'm using.
Jun 19 20:22:27 <[Rui]> DocMobilizer: what do YOU use :)
Jun 19 20:22:41 <DocScrutinizer> SHR-u for now
Jun 19 20:22:52 <[Rui]> dang
Jun 19 20:23:17 <[Rui]> and it seems nobody else's irc window is up or at the keyboard :)
Jun 19 20:23:57 * Blu3 's irc is bleeping while me == coding
Jun 19 20:24:00 <cyberalex> hi
Jun 19 20:24:30 <[Rui]> cyberalex: hi, what do you use for making packages for Om2009 ? :)
Jun 19 20:24:59 <[Rui]> fso-milestone5.5, fso-testing or fso-unstable? :)
Jun 19 20:25:00 <cyberalex> i don't make packages yet..
Jun 19 20:25:07 <[Rui]> *sigh*
Jun 19 20:25:33 <Blu3> i make bugs, not packages ;>
Jun 19 20:25:40 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 19 20:26:47 <cyberalex> what about get shr-settings shr-messages etc in background?
Jun 19 20:27:27 <cyberalex> instead of close them any time?
Jun 19 20:27:49 <Blu3> new shr-unstable doesn't pop up shr-messages when a message comes in
Jun 19 20:28:00 <DocScrutinizer> cyberalex: huh?
Jun 19 20:28:01 <Blu3> thankfully
Jun 19 20:28:20 <cyberalex> DocScrutinizer: to speed up shr usability
Jun 19 20:28:36 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: I *really* hope that's a cfg-option
Jun 19 20:28:58 <cyberalex> like symbian in nokia smartphones
Jun 19 20:29:18 <Blu3> it pops up an info window that says how many missed calls/new messages you have
Jun 19 20:29:44 <DocScrutinizer> cyberalex: a utterly *bad* idea. I want to close an app for good if I close it. I can put the window to background any time I like
Jun 19 20:30:24 <dos1> Blu3: that's not shr-messages...
Jun 19 20:30:31 <dos1> Blu3: that's even not libframeworkd-phonegui-efl
Jun 19 20:30:38 <dos1> Blu3: that's external app, notifier
Jun 19 20:30:56 <dos1> i have modified version here
Jun 19 20:30:58 <Blu3> yes... and?  shr-messages reader used to pop up
Jun 19 20:31:03 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: I seem to remember we agreed on this a nice option and a must-have, but there's users like me who like the old style and we should have a config to choose
Jun 19 20:31:07 <dos1> with different GUI and with removed messages handling
Jun 19 20:31:17 <dos1> Blu3: so what?
Jun 19 20:31:37 <Blu3> so... what?  what're you fussing about?
Jun 19 20:31:49 <dos1> Blu3: if i'll write some app with "os.system(firefox)", then if you don't like that app, you'll say "firefox is bad"?
Jun 19 20:32:07 <Blu3> huh?
Jun 19 20:32:24 <dos1> [22:27] <Blu3> new shr-unstable doesn't pop up shr-messages when a message comes in
Jun 19 20:32:59 <dos1> it never hadn't poped up shr-messages :P
Jun 19 20:33:03 <Blu3> yes, it's grand that the incoming message isn't automatically made "read" by the message reader, and displayed on the screen
Jun 19 20:33:28 <Blu3> it has until recently popped up a new message display for every incoming sms
Jun 19 20:33:29 <dos1> Blu3: no. it's just notifier app, which handles now, what is also handled by ophonekitd
Jun 19 20:33:34 <dos1> "notifier"
Jun 19 20:33:39 <dos1> that's it's name :P
Jun 19 20:34:09 <dos1> and it doesn't pop it up... maybe cause notifier was broken
Jun 19 20:34:18 <dos1> cause i don't think there were any changes
Jun 19 20:34:33 <Blu3> what ever.  you can give a new and different name to every line of python code on the phone, it's still going to be grouped in with "shr-messages" because it's the same default UI people use to read messages
Jun 19 20:34:44 <DocScrutinizer> err, you guys lost me now
Jun 19 20:35:02 <dos1> Blu3: that's unrelated to shr-messages!
Jun 19 20:35:08 <dos1> Blu3: it's not even SHR app :P
Jun 19 20:35:17 <dos1> Blu3: (it's not hosted on SHR git)
Jun 19 20:35:29 <Blu3> ^-^
Jun 19 20:35:51 <_admiral0> hi guys. i'd like an opinion about the hw fix to #1024
Jun 19 20:35:58 <dos1> shr-messages is only wrapper to displaying libframeworkd-phonegui-* messages screen
Jun 19 20:36:10 <dos1> all gui is in libframeworkd-phonegui-* libriaries
Jun 19 20:36:16 <DocScrutinizer> _admiral0: go ahead
Jun 19 20:36:18 <dos1> now by default libframeworkd-phonegui-efl
Jun 19 20:36:24 <dos1> it's also used by ophonekitd
Jun 19 20:36:37 <dos1> which popups window with message text
Jun 19 20:36:41 <Blu3> ok, from now on we'll refer to it not as "messages", but "wrapper to libframeworkd-phonegui-* messages screen"
Jun 19 20:36:52 <_admiral0> DocScrutinizer:http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-May/001192.html
Jun 19 20:37:03 <Blu3> we all know it's a wrapper
Jun 19 20:37:05 <dos1> Blu3: just refer it to messages, not shr-messages
Jun 19 20:37:10 <_admiral0> can i apply it. is it gonna eat my hamster?
Jun 19 20:37:15 <_admiral0> XD
Jun 19 20:37:28 <Blu3> why?  that's the filename of the process that gets launched
Jun 19 20:37:30 <dos1> s/it to/to it as/
Jun 19 20:37:31 <bzzbot_> dos1 meant: Blu3: just refer to it as messages, not shr-messages
Jun 19 20:37:39 <dos1> Blu3: you're wrong now
Jun 19 20:37:45 <DocScrutinizer> _admiral0: you can apply it if you know how to SMT
Jun 19 20:37:48 <dos1> Blu3: on incoming message there is no shr-messages process
Jun 19 20:37:52 <dos1> Blu3: you can check it ;)
Jun 19 20:37:54 <Blu3> asl;kdfja;lsdkfj
Jun 19 20:38:10 <_admiral0> that's not a problem. i've got a friend that can do it
Jun 19 20:38:13 <dos1> Blu3: on incoming message that's ophonekitd with calls libframeworkd-phonegui screen
Jun 19 20:38:28 <dos1> shr-messages is ONLY for that "Messages" icon on desktop
Jun 19 20:38:31 <dos1> nothing more
Jun 19 20:38:37 <Blu3> a) launch /usr/bin/shr-messages.  b) up pops list of messages.  c) [show] a message, d) message shows.
Jun 19 20:38:40 <_admiral0> someone hare has got this fix?
Jun 19 20:38:51 <dos1> Blu3: but that's not *incoming* message :P
Jun 19 20:39:04 <DocScrutinizer> well, alphaone has
Jun 19 20:39:06 <Blu3> d) UI is the same interface as the incoming message
Jun 19 20:39:14 <dos1> Blu3: but process is different
Jun 19 20:39:24 <dos1> (but code is the same, fact :P)
Jun 19 20:39:28 <DocScrutinizer> _admiral0: and mwester has afaik
Jun 19 20:39:50 <Blu3> you can't expect other people to call the same UI a different thing when to them it is the -same- thing they use for messages
Jun 19 20:40:18 <dos1> Blu3: i don't expect it
Jun 19 20:40:29 <dos1> Blu3: just say "messages screen", not "shr-messages app"
Jun 19 20:40:48 <Blu3> why?  you'll berate me on "messages screen" when earlier it was "messages"
Jun 19 20:40:49 <DocScrutinizer> _admiral0: I burnt my fingers on the iron for 45years, so I reached "higher level" now on EE ;-) No more soldering for mere fun, just in case of emergency ;-D
Jun 19 20:40:58 <Blu3> tomorrow it'll be something else :P
Jun 19 20:41:12 <Blu3> but still have the same UI
Jun 19 20:41:16 <dos1> Blu3: well. "messages" is also acceptable :P
Jun 19 20:41:46 <dos1> Blu3: if you'll use different phonegui lib, then there won't be the same ui
Jun 19 20:41:51 <dos1> Blu3: that's difference
Jun 19 20:41:56 <DocScrutinizer> _admiral0: I don't do soldering, I can *imagine* I did
Jun 19 20:42:02 <Blu3> but because it's in the shr repo and the initial program people launch from the finger touch is shr-messages, it's not shr-messages? :P
Jun 19 20:42:06 <dos1> Blu3: and if you want to read code of shr-messages, to fix some ui thing
Jun 19 20:42:11 <_admiral0> DocScrutinizer, :)
Jun 19 20:42:14 <dos1> Blu3: then you'll find nothing :P
Jun 19 20:42:20 <Blu3> there's nothing to fix in shr-messages
Jun 19 20:42:38 <dos1> Blu3: that was example
Jun 19 20:42:39 <Blu3> why not just call the python script "messages" then
Jun 19 20:42:53 <dos1> Blu3: which python script? notifier?
Jun 19 20:43:01 <Blu3> no, i mean there's nothing to fix in it because there's almost nothing -in- /usr/bin/shr-messages
Jun 19 20:43:11 <dos1> Blu3: that script is for missed calls, but it also handles messages (which is IMHO bad)
Jun 19 20:43:45 <dos1> Blu3: yep. but saying "shr-messages shouldn't pop up window on incoming message" is suggesting, that there is something to fix in shr-messages :P
Jun 19 20:44:35 <Blu3> my original point was it's about time messages stop getting popped up by default. let the end user choose if he wants them popped up, and which process or "wrapper to libsomethingandsomething-else.dotsomething-gui.whatever library" to pop them up with
Jun 19 20:45:26 <Blu3> i use the term shr-messages because it's hella lot shorter than "wrapper to ........" and that's the name of the python script that people otherwise launch, to read their messages
Jun 19 20:45:48 <dos1> Blu3: why not just using "messages"? it's also shorter than "shr-messages", and it's also more correct ;P
Jun 19 20:46:07 <DocScrutinizer> guys!..... *yawn*
Jun 19 20:46:10 <dos1> shr-messages isn't python script...
Jun 19 20:46:22 <dos1> it's C app :P
Jun 19 20:46:25 <dos1> notifier is python script
Jun 19 20:46:31 <dos1> BTW
Jun 19 20:46:39 <dos1> http://openmoko.opendevice.org/~dos/notifier-dos
Jun 19 20:46:43 <Blu3> ^__^
Jun 19 20:46:46 <dos1> modified version of notifier
Jun 19 20:46:50 <dos1> which is IMHO better
Jun 19 20:46:55 <Blu3> getting back to my original point.......
Jun 19 20:47:24 <dos1> it has messages handling removed, and different gui
Jun 19 20:47:26 <Blu3> it's about time whateverthefuck stopped automatically popping up all incoming messages, thereby marking them read on the SIM
Jun 19 20:47:31 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: this one the one with missed-calls+SMS hovering over all screens?
Jun 19 20:47:39 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: yep
Jun 19 20:48:24 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/ab8647ca1f8d819be7604a85d2141e37.png
Jun 19 20:48:27 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: maybe it's my poor english, but to me your last sentence doesn't make any sense
Jun 19 20:49:03 <dos1> Blu3: ophonekitd is popping up all incoming messages
Jun 19 20:49:51 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: where to hook that in?
Jun 19 20:50:10 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: /usr/bin/notifier
Jun 19 20:50:16 <DocScrutinizer> or is it just same scriptname file replacing the old one
Jun 19 20:50:49 <Blu3> doc, whateverthefuck in SHR automatically pops open all incoming text messages and notifications
Jun 19 20:50:56 <Blu3> until a couple days ago
Jun 19 20:50:59 <DocScrutinizer> aah, ok. So this one just replaces the notifier script I understand Blu3 is complaining about
Jun 19 20:51:11 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: yes and no
Jun 19 20:51:17 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: it's replacing notifier script
Jun 19 20:51:25 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: but Blu3 complains about ophonekitd i think
Jun 19 20:51:28 <Blu3> which makes all messages automatically status=read on the sim card
Jun 19 20:51:37 <dos1> Blu3: which notifications? we have notifications support? :o
Jun 19 20:51:55 <Blu3> exactly. which is why it is a bad idea
Jun 19 20:52:16 <dos1> only smses and missed calls (by notifier script) and smses (by ophonekitd, which should be configurable)
Jun 19 20:52:35 <Blu3> any other app that comes along has to keep it's own database to track if a message or notification has been read or acted on
Jun 19 20:53:25 <DocScrutinizer> AIUI Blu3 is complaining about the original notifier script calling ibframeworkd-phonegui which in turn marks SMS as read
Jun 19 20:54:36 <Blu3> the SIM actually marks it read when anything reads it from the storage index.  FSO doesn't provide a way to mark it unread (if it can be, on the SIM)
Jun 19 20:54:43 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: notifier doesn't call anything, which can mark 
Jun 19 20:54:47 <dos1> +SMS as read
Jun 19 20:54:49 <dos1> ;)
Jun 19 20:54:52 <DocScrutinizer> anyway this discussion seems to drain my power (or was it my dinner?) ;-)
Jun 19 20:54:54 <Blu3> nor does FSO provide a status-changed signal
Jun 19 20:56:20 <DocScrutinizer> OMG now we're back to "SMS status changed signalling"
Jun 19 20:56:28 <DocScrutinizer> cya
Jun 19 20:57:53 <Blu3> back to?  the last time i brought status-changed up was weeks ago and it was a discussion about dbus
Jun 19 21:05:48 <DocScrutinizer> from a system-architecture POV SMS(-on-SIM) is a systemwide resource that has to be handled by exactly *one* dedicated handler/daemon/server/whatever (prolly opimd here), and this central instance has exclusive access to SIM SMS storage and *SHOULD* remove each SMS from SIM and store it to central database as soon as possible
Jun 19 21:08:16 <DocScrutinizer> then it's up to this central handler and its policies how to notify user about new SMS, either by popup of a requester, by executing a script, or propagating a dbus broadcast
Jun 19 21:08:30 <DocScrutinizer> or even all three
Jun 19 21:11:52 <DocScrutinizer> and it's not of any interest that actually framework is notifying opimd about modem receiving a new SMS. Still access to SIM-SMS via framework/dbus is exclusive for opimd, and any other app interested in SMS has to talk to opimd and *not* to modem
Jun 19 21:13:28 <dos1|neo> DocScrutinizer: i agree
Jun 19 21:14:07 <dos1|neo> DocScrutinizer: school year is ended, i'll play with opimd messages more ;)
Jun 19 21:14:28 <DocScrutinizer> so wtf is the purpose of a SIM-SMS_status_changed_to_hasBeenRead dbus broadcast?
Jun 19 21:16:00 <Blu3> the purpose of a DBUS api for the sms status-changed is to know if the status of it changed.  read/unread, deleted, replaced, etc
Jun 19 21:16:07 <DocScrutinizer> dos1|neo: good to hear :-)
Jun 19 21:16:18 <Blu3> sort of like the usefulness of a signal indicating a new message
Jun 19 21:17:34 <dos1|neo> Blu3: no. incoming message signal is needed by opimd
Jun 19 21:17:56 <Blu3> you wouldn't like it if all your irc chat got eaten by pidgin.  there are different applications for accessing things and if one app changes a resource, then the other apps tracking those resources should be advised of it
Jun 19 21:17:59 <dos1|neo> and read/deleted/moved etc. it's opimd work
Jun 19 21:18:31 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: I'm sure after opimd has notified you there's a new SMS you can find a way to get to know about SMS (*not* in SIM as SMS are there only for a few seconds) has changed to been_read
Jun 19 21:18:44 <Blu3> great.  when opimd gets functional that'll be nifty.  in the mean time, other people are using the phone and writing applications
Jun 19 21:18:46 <dos1|neo> opimd is part of FSO, as ogsmd
Jun 19 21:19:13 <dos1|neo> so some people should work on opimd...
Jun 19 21:19:26 <dos1|neo> i managed contacts to work
Jun 19 21:19:28 <Blu3> and other people work on other things
Jun 19 21:19:42 <dos1|neo> but i don't have unlimited amount of time
Jun 19 21:19:47 <Blu3> neither do i
Jun 19 21:19:56 <dos1|neo> Blu3: so noone wants pim intefration?
Jun 19 21:20:04 <dos1|neo> s/fra/gra/
Jun 19 21:20:05 <bzzbot_> dos1|neo meant: Blu3: so noone wants pim integration?
Jun 19 21:20:42 <Blu3> having a functional sms application -now- is far more important to me than the background process being prepared for the future
Jun 19 21:20:47 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: you don't suggest we include a botch into fso api to deal with apps using the api in a wrong way?
Jun 19 21:21:29 <Blu3> until opimd was created, fetching messages off the sim is the only way
Jun 19 21:21:41 <Blu3> until it is functional, it's still the only way
Jun 19 21:21:43 <dos1|neo> Blu3: it is created...
Jun 19 21:22:02 <dos1|neo> and it's almost functional
Jun 19 21:22:17 <dos1|neo> in would be functional NOW
Jun 19 21:22:37 <DocScrutinizer> so go ahead hack your own script for it, but don't request FSO api to take care it won't break this botch when everything is done correctly
Jun 19 21:22:46 <dos1|neo> if only there would be at last one person working on it this mounth
Jun 19 21:22:50 <Blu3> almost functional.  no offense in my statement but i've been using my fone for four months now
Jun 19 21:23:07 <Blu3> adding another signal to dbus isn't going to break anything
Jun 19 21:23:22 <dos1|neo> but it's useless
Jun 19 21:24:01 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: it breaks fso api spec at least ;-)
Jun 19 21:24:08 <dos1|neo> really, instead of creating apps, which will duplicate some opimd functionality
Jun 19 21:24:08 <Blu3> it doesn't break anything
Jun 19 21:24:27 <Blu3> what is being duplicated?
Jun 19 21:24:29 <DocScrutinizer> ... you should improve opimd
Jun 19 21:24:31 <dos1|neo> just work on opimd instead, and everyone will be happy
Jun 19 21:24:59 <Blu3> opimd isn't an end user interface to messages
Jun 19 21:25:19 <DocScrutinizer> SO WHAT??? grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jun 19 21:26:01 <Blu3> so what?  i don't give a flying turd about opimd right now.  it has zero relevance to me.  i needed a functional sms application, i wrote it
Jun 19 21:26:51 <DocScrutinizer> so don't nag about framework caring about *your* app then !!
Jun 19 21:26:53 <Blu3> when opimd becomes functional, i'll _happily_ switch my app to using it instead of reading directly off the sim
Jun 19 21:27:03 <Blu3> who is nagging anyone?
Jun 19 21:27:09 <dos1|neo> but until that
Jun 19 21:27:17 <Blu3> i brought up status-changed once.  weeks ago.
Jun 19 21:27:26 <dos1|neo> live without some functionality
Jun 19 21:27:27 <dos1|neo> ;p
Jun 19 21:27:48 <Blu3> no.  i use my fone.  i'm not going to put it on the shelf until 2015 gets here
Jun 19 21:27:50 <dos1|neo> or, if you want that functionality now
Jun 19 21:27:59 <dos1|neo> work on opimd
Jun 19 21:28:11 <dos1|neo> i'm using it too
Jun 19 21:28:12 <Blu3> how about you work on my app?
Jun 19 21:28:28 <dos1|neo> as daily, primary phone
Jun 19 21:28:43 <dos1|neo> i'm working on FSO and SHR projects
Jun 19 21:28:54 <Blu3> why not work on gentoo?
Jun 19 21:29:03 <dos1|neo> you are using FSO project
Jun 19 21:29:10 <dos1|neo> with your app
Jun 19 21:29:30 <Blu3> pretty much every distribution for OM is utilizing FSO
Jun 19 21:29:37 <dos1|neo> i'm not using neither your app nor gentoo
Jun 19 21:29:46 <Blu3> i'm not using opimd
Jun 19 21:30:00 <dos1|neo> Blu3: i know only shr, om2009 and debian
Jun 19 21:30:57 <Blu3> my priority is functional sms/mms/notifications handling and presentation to the end user.  not the inner workings of FSO
Jun 19 21:31:06 <dos1|neo> opimd is FSO part
Jun 19 21:31:28 <dos1|neo> so we won't duplicate opimd job in other FSO parts
Jun 19 21:31:53 <DocScrutinizer> I'm deeply amazed how 2h of arguing end at the starting point at last. So let me repeat myself as well
Jun 19 21:31:55 <DocScrutinizer> cya
Jun 19 21:32:34 <dos1|neo> huh
Jun 19 21:33:26 * dos1|neo still needs to think about handling and combining split incoming messages in opimd...
Jun 19 21:33:48 <dos1|neo> combining split messages stored on sim already works
Jun 19 21:34:00 <Blu3> all methods?
Jun 19 21:34:09 <dos1|neo> but incoming are more important from opimd point of view
Jun 19 21:34:34 <Blu3> different carriers split messages different ways
Jun 19 21:35:07 <dos1|neo> Blu3: wtf? that's phone who split message...
Jun 19 21:35:17 <Blu3> no, it isn't
Jun 19 21:35:31 <dos1|neo> yes, it is
Jun 19 21:35:31 <dos1|neo> read specs
Jun 19 21:35:36 <dos1|neo> (i read)
Jun 19 21:35:37 <Blu3> an originating device for sms splits messages
Jun 19 21:35:56 <Blu3> however, carriers split message a dozen ways from sunday when they're gatewayed
Jun 19 21:36:32 <Blu3> if you read the specs you'll see there are at least three distinct ways to split a message originating on a phone
Jun 19 21:36:59 <dos1|neo> so? handling PDU is ogsmd job, and it's working
Jun 19 21:37:04 <Blu3> if you look at real messages coming from the MSC, you'll see a myriad of ways they split them and all the screwed up things they do
Jun 19 21:37:21 <dos1|neo> and i'm using it successfully
Jun 19 21:37:25 <Blu3> actually the PDU is getting futzed when it comes to binary messages
Jun 19 21:37:39 <Blu3> there's junk prefixed to the notification url
Jun 19 21:37:42 <dos1|neo> binary messages is different thing
Jun 19 21:37:51 <Blu3> or, the url is missing the head
Jun 19 21:37:56 <dos1|neo> out of my interest now
Jun 19 21:38:47 <Blu3> why is it out of your interest?  you just implied it's opimd's job to recombine the messages
Jun 19 21:39:04 <dos1|neo> i just want some very basic PIM support
Jun 19 21:39:35 <Blu3> that's the problem.  if opimd doesn't fully handle things then it's just an obstruction
Jun 19 21:40:02 <dos1|neo> but then that's not my problem
Jun 19 21:40:07 <Blu3> if you insist on being the gateway to messages, you need to fully and properly support them
Jun 19 21:40:13 <dos1|neo> i'm not FSO developer
Jun 19 21:40:25 <Blu3> otherwise everyone will ignore opimd and talk directly to the sim
Jun 19 21:40:46 <dos1|neo> Blu3: i agree it has to be done
Jun 19 21:40:54 <dos1|neo> Blu3: but not by me
Jun 19 21:41:36 <dos1|neo> Blu3: as i don't have enough knowledge for that
Jun 19 21:42:20 <DocScrutinizer> dos1|neo: it's a framework duty anyway
Jun 19 21:42:37 <dos1|neo> i'm just community member, who is trying to be able to have more messages in inbox, than sim can store
Jun 19 21:42:50 <dos1|neo> DocScrutinizer: and i agree :P
Jun 19 21:43:12 <Blu3> i'm just a community member who is making a far more functional message application
Jun 19 21:43:33 <dos1|neo> in your opinion
Jun 19 21:43:59 <Blu3> i don't see any other app out there that does what mine can
Jun 19 21:44:23 <dos1|neo> well, our actual apps aren't so functional regarding gui
Jun 19 21:44:40 <dos1|neo> (but for me it's enough)
Jun 19 21:44:49 <Blu3> that's precisely the void that i've filled
Jun 19 21:45:08 <dos1|neo> but that's why we want to have ophonekitd/phonegui api
Jun 19 21:45:25 <dos1|neo> s/api/dbus api/
Jun 19 21:45:27 <bzzbot_> dos1|neo meant: but that's why we want to have ophonekitd/phonegui dbus api
Jun 19 21:45:35 <dos1|neo> and we're working on it
Jun 19 21:45:52 <Blu3> my app: a) properly timestamps messages, b) sorts, c) has partial support for MMS, d) recombines several varieties of message splitting, e) decodes several types of notifications, etc, etc
Jun 19 21:46:35 <dos1|neo> a), b), and with opimd d) is working for me in SHR
Jun 19 21:46:57 <dos1|neo> don't know what e) means
Jun 19 21:47:14 <dos1|neo> well
Jun 19 21:47:47 <dos1|neo> IMHO your app should be done as phonegui lib
Jun 19 21:47:55 <Blu3> a) still shows unixtime(0) with TZ applied, b) doesn't sort.  messages are in sim index order, d) might be done in opimd but from our conversation i suspect is partial
Jun 19 21:47:58 <dos1|neo> then everyone would be happy
Jun 19 21:48:06 <dos1|neo> but it's your choice
Jun 19 21:48:12 <dos1|neo> and just my opinion
Jun 19 21:48:17 <Blu3> e) all the "garbage" sms notifications that show up in your mailbox
Jun 19 21:48:50 <dos1|neo> d) is done with ogsmd api, as it should be
Jun 19 21:49:05 <Blu3> are you handling gatewayed messages?
Jun 19 21:49:14 <dos1|neo> e) i don't have any garbage
Jun 19 21:49:37 <Blu3> so you don't get any notifications when you get a voicemail?  or notifications when you delete a voicemail?
Jun 19 21:49:51 <dos1|neo> no
Jun 19 21:49:56 <DocScrutinizer> garbage????
Jun 19 21:49:59 <Blu3> well, we do
Jun 19 21:50:17 <dos1|neo> what is that?
Jun 19 21:50:51 <dos1|neo> and why are you decoding it in fso client, instead of decoding it in fso?
Jun 19 21:50:53 <Blu3> it's an sms with a bitfield and a value.  indicates how many new voicemails you have, or an update message indicating replacement/deletion of any previous sms messages from the same MSC
Jun 19 21:51:00 <DocScrutinizer> took me one afternoon to config voicmail notifications (on my SIP-voicebox)
Jun 19 21:51:41 <dos1|neo> then FSO should handle that, as it handles receipts
Jun 19 21:51:54 <DocScrutinizer> ack
Jun 19 21:52:06 <dos1|neo> and everyone would benefit from that code
Jun 19 21:52:19 <dos1|neo> Blu3: your app is very egoistic ;p
Jun 19 21:52:36 <Blu3> egotistical, how?
Jun 19 21:53:26 <dos1|neo> cause you implement something, which can't be used outside your app; and it should be in central api
Jun 19 21:53:37 <dos1|neo> please, consider adding it to FSO
Jun 19 21:53:52 <dos1|neo> so everyone will benefit from your work
Jun 19 21:54:37 <Blu3> why shouldn't i.  i've spent four months trying to get half a pickle's worth of information about things in FSO and nobody cares about messaging, especially not MMS, and nobody cares about sharing any information bout the internals of fso
Jun 19 21:54:51 <DocScrutinizer> or consider to abandon usage of FSO all together, as it never will fit with this style of handling things
Jun 19 21:55:09 <Blu3> nobody cares about a bug getting filed about broken PDU handling
Jun 19 21:55:40 <dos1|neo> Blu3: it's just not enough man-power
Jun 19 21:56:06 <dos1|neo> Blu3: ask for commit access and just contribute
Jun 19 21:56:14 <Blu3> so, if you get pretty much a brick wall about trying to fix something, how are you going to approach it?  there's nothing egotistical about making things work from the information i'm given
Jun 19 21:56:57 <DocScrutinizer> there's just two valid options to choose from: 1) contribute to FSO, 2) don't complain about FSO not meeting your needs
Jun 19 21:57:13 <dos1|neo> i agree with Doc
Jun 19 21:57:31 <Blu3> it's not a far cry to say that i've had to figure out almost everything entirely on my own, stumbling through screwed up outdated wiki pages and figuring out how something works today vs what someone put on a wiki a year ago
Jun 19 21:58:08 <DocScrutinizer> so whom you like to blame then??
Jun 19 21:58:16 <dos1|neo> Blu3: so? that's the same what i had to do with opimd when i started to work on it
Jun 19 21:58:30 <dos1|neo> so i started to write and update
Jun 19 21:58:50 <Blu3> where was i complaining?  1) i'm writing the app for the community.  this entire debacle started with me saying it's about time "messages" stopped popping up
Jun 19 21:59:01 <wpwrak> solution: write the wiki in invisible ink, so that the pages fade after a few days, when they've become obsolete anyway
Jun 19 21:59:33 <Blu3> oh my goodness, how novel!  that's exactly why i started writing my sms app.  i wasn't sitting on my ass bellyaching.  i made an app that -worked-
Jun 19 21:59:50 <Blu3> who said i was trying to blame anybody, for anything?
Jun 19 22:00:40 <Blu3> how many times have you sat here and bitched about something with xchat, pidgin, cut and paste in the terminal, etc?
Jun 19 22:00:46 * DocScrutinizer thinks Blu3 has a ptitjes-esque notion towards sw-development (to create a new word not intended to embarras anybody)
Jun 19 22:01:52 <Blu3> i told you guys at the beginning of the year i didn't want commit access because i knew nothing about python, dbus, sms/sim operations and nothing about fso
Jun 19 22:02:28 <Blu3> i needed a functional sms app and i have said several times, that i wrote it to learn all of these things, and because i needed a working sms application
Jun 19 22:02:30 <dos1|neo> i just think writing new, separate sms app for that and implementing in it things which should be implemented in FSO, isn't good thing and won't give too much for project
Jun 19 22:02:39 <dos1|neo> Blu3: as I
Jun 19 22:02:45 <alphaone> Blu3: Interesting about the notifications
Jun 19 22:03:00 <alphaone> Is that binary field you're referring to in the message body?
Jun 19 22:03:07 <Blu3> i don't think an sms application belongs in FSO.  FSO is a framework.  not the entire package
Jun 19 22:03:27 <dos1|neo> Blu3: decoding messages is FSO work
Jun 19 22:03:40 <dos1|neo> Blu3: now please talk with alphaone
Jun 19 22:03:42 <dos1|neo> ;)
Jun 19 22:03:45 <alphaone> Calm down guys, please
Jun 19 22:04:16 <dos1|neo> flaaaaameeeee
Jun 19 22:04:19 <dos1|neo> ;)
Jun 19 22:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> hi alphaone :-) and yes, ack wrt calm-down, and bbl - off for beer
Jun 19 22:04:46 <alphaone> Blu3: I'm asking because the message notification headers should (at least partially) be supported
Jun 19 22:04:59 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: Hi and Prost
Jun 19 22:05:34 <Blu3> alphaone, re. notifications, the sender field is filled in with "junk" and represents the messaging center.  for me the bitfield is converted to a delta triangle character. the message contains a value which is according to MSC, the count of new messages, or it's a replace-all-previous-messages-from-msc-with-this-one value
Jun 19 22:06:18 <Blu3> dos1, my application is primarly message handling and presentation for the end user.  i wrote the decoding because it is currently necessary
Jun 19 22:07:00 <Blu3> i.e i just got a voicemail
Jun 19 22:07:12 <dos1|neo> Blu3: then move decoding to fso and i'll be happy :) and that's all :P
Jun 19 22:07:30 <DocScrutinizer> seems Blu3 isn't interested in augmenting fso to provide a function that belongs there but actually is considered done in his app. So asking for fso improvements to meet Blu3 app isn't quite polite
Jun 19 22:07:37 <alphaone> Blu3: what's the PID of that message?
Jun 19 22:07:41 <Blu3> the sender is: '_@',
Jun 19 22:07:46 <Blu3> the pid is 32
Jun 19 22:08:02 <Blu3> 'message-indication-count': 3
Jun 19 22:08:24 <Blu3> 'message-indication-type': 0,
Jun 19 22:08:46 <Blu3> which means, it's a new voicemail count update, current new voicemails is 3
Jun 19 22:09:29 <Blu3> doc, BS.  i put it in my own app because nobody was interested in it
Jun 19 22:09:58 <Blu3> none of my bugs have ever gotten even a comment
Jun 19 22:10:08 <dos1|neo> Blu3: i am interested. and as you can see, alphaone is also interested
Jun 19 22:10:27 <dos1|neo> ;p
Jun 19 22:10:29 <Blu3> my request to add the dbus signal is precisely an augmentation improvement of FSO
Jun 19 22:10:58 <dos1|neo> oh, in that signal i'm not interested
Jun 19 22:11:01 <dos1|neo> :D
Jun 19 22:11:16 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: ack, it actually is. but the ptitjes way, and that won't happen ;-)
Jun 19 22:11:17 <alphaone> pid 32 indicates nothing special ("implicit meaning")
Jun 19 22:11:47 <alphaone> So what more do you need from FSO?
Jun 19 22:12:11 <Blu3> dos1, having a signal arrive at opimd telling you something changed on an sms slot index on the sim would probably benefit you as well
Jun 19 22:12:47 <Blu3> not all sms messages are intended for the end user, i.e. these notifications
Jun 19 22:13:33 <dos1|neo> Blu3: how? messages shouldn't be stored on sim (unless user says he want to)
Jun 19 22:13:42 <alphaone> Well, dbus isn't exactly "end user" :-)
Jun 19 22:13:49 <Blu3> so should they go through opimd where they're entirely unrelated?  or be handled by an applet like say one that shows your voicemail count similar to the battery status?
Jun 19 22:13:53 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: it won't help opimd as system architecture is: only opimd is accessing SIM-SMS
Jun 19 22:15:04 <alphaone> Well, generally we schould not even go through SIM for SMS imho
Jun 19 22:15:19 <alphaone> Then everyone interested can listen to the dbus signals
Jun 19 22:15:26 <dos1|neo> Blu3, alphaone: that's why signal VoicemailStatusChanged IMHO should be providen, instead of IncomingMessage
Jun 19 22:15:35 <dos1|neo> in that situation
Jun 19 22:15:54 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: if framework can tell type of SMS, for sure another handler than opimd could register for that specific type of SMS-notification
Jun 19 22:15:59 <Blu3> alphaone.  FSO has two bugs right now, ignoring the timestamps.  a) it's passing on an SMS indicating it's part 2 of 2, but there's no part 1.  part 1 is a blank signal emitted with nothing stored in the sim
Jun 19 22:16:05 <alphaone> if you go that way you'll have an explosion of dbus signals
Jun 19 22:16:37 <Blu3> b) the PDU decoding on binary messages appears to be broken as the message body is often prefixed with junk or the head of the notification url is chopped off
Jun 19 22:17:19 <alphaone> Blu3: Could you provide me with the PDUs?
Jun 19 22:17:41 <alphaone> And/or what FSO decoded it as
Jun 19 22:17:47 <DocScrutinizer> Blu3: but still every SMS is handled by framework *only*, and every (type of) SMS has one exclusively dedicated handler, so such a signal is completely useless
Jun 19 22:17:53 <Blu3> docscrutinizer there are numerous types of message notifications like this, and none of them should reach the end user.  they're meant to be handled by the phone
Jun 19 22:18:18 <Blu3> particularly things like a notification that says erase any prior sms matching this sender
Jun 19 22:18:25 <Blu3> erase or replace
Jun 19 22:18:26 <DocScrutinizer> ok, no conflict with what I said
Jun 19 22:18:43 <Blu3> none of those should go through opimd
Jun 19 22:18:47 <alphaone> Blu3: *especially* these SMS I don't want my phone to handle on its own
Jun 19 22:19:09 <Blu3> but they are stored on the sim card and a dbus signal emitted saying a message has arrived
Jun 19 22:19:23 <alphaone> but this is turning into a vi vs emacs kind of discussion
Jun 19 22:19:39 <dos1|neo> Blu3: but in near future they won't
Jun 19 22:20:01 <alphaone> Blu3: got a PDU of the offending message?
Jun 19 22:20:02 <Blu3> alphaone, it's necessary.  it's a notification from the MSC that your voicemails are all read (or some are read for replace) and the message count is now 0, delete any previous sms that gave a message count
Jun 19 22:20:30 <Blu3> alphaone, i am am waiting for it to arrive
Jun 19 22:20:47 <alphaone> Blu3: Yeah, and this results in that I can send friends one hate SMS and a minute later I can overwrite it with a friendly one. Pretty fun :-)
Jun 19 22:21:18 <Blu3> dos1, but if a message arrives and is stored on the sim, but gets eaten by an applet, is opimd going to silently ignore the incoming message signal?
Jun 19 22:21:41 <DocScrutinizer> THERE ARE NO SMS TO BE STORED AT SIM
Jun 19 22:21:50 <alphaone> Blu3: Just imagine someone wanting to log and graph the number of voicemails over time. They don't want that data removed
Jun 19 22:21:55 <Blu3> alphaone, that's a policy decision.  otherwise you have multiple message count sms
Jun 19 22:22:05 <alphaone> Blu3: exactly
Jun 19 22:22:36 <Blu3> doc, all messages come in and are stored on the sim.  the radio has to put them somewhere
Jun 19 22:22:51 <Blu3> post-receipt, it's up to us to move them off the sim
Jun 19 22:22:59 <DocScrutinizer> exactly, and immediately
Jun 19 22:23:24 <alphaone> Blu3: gsmsms.SetSimBuffersSms(False)
Jun 19 22:23:33 <Blu3> and, as i just said, messages should go two directions.  people messages go through opimd.  machine messages go to applets
Jun 19 22:23:34 <alphaone> will remedy that
Jun 19 22:23:37 <DocScrutinizer> and by exactly ONE dedicated handler process for each type of SMS
Jun 19 22:24:20 <Blu3> and as i also just said.  if a message disappears behind the back of another handler and they are reacting to notification of a new message, they should be advised that it's already gone
Jun 19 22:24:41 <DocScrutinizer> never can happen
Jun 19 22:25:15 <alphaone> Well, I'm going to do something constructive now...
Jun 19 22:25:15 <dos1|neo> Blu3: btw, there are some MessageAck and MessageNack methods
Jun 19 22:25:21 <alphaone> biking
Jun 19 22:25:24 <Blu3> i know that
Jun 19 22:25:37 <DocScrutinizer> alphaone: enjoy
Jun 19 22:25:43 <Blu3> and those have strict time frames for being handled and acknowledged
Jun 19 22:25:52 <DocScrutinizer> as I'll enjoy my beer now
Jun 19 22:26:38 <alphaone> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.html;hb=HEAD
Jun 19 22:27:01 <alphaone> Yes, a limitation from the device/network itself
Jun 19 22:27:03 <alphaone> anyway
Jun 19 23:07:58 <Blu3> alphaone, 07914140279597F8440A81111103010000F590609181926169390B05040B8423F000037E020230392E3138332E33322E3138393A383030332F3036313932323239313431303030303230303031343030303000
Jun 19 23:08:35 <Blu3> http://2 is missing.  i know it's a 2, because i am familiar with my MSC's media url
Jun 19 23:40:14 <[Rui]> http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary lost the images :(
Jun 19 23:44:35 <DocMobilizer> rui, err... huh?
Jun 20 00:11:26 <[Rui]> DocScrutinizer: Error: Macro Image(elementary.2.png, align=left) failed
Jun 20 00:15:59 <DocMobilizer> sheeeet, missed onother opportunity to trace gprs lease expiry with tcpdump :o(
Jun 20 00:49:19 <Toaster`> Good evening all
Jun 20 00:49:22 <Toaster`> I'm back!
Jun 20 00:49:31 <Toaster`> DocScrutinizer: ping
Jun 20 00:55:59 <DocMobilizer> Toaster`, pong
Jun 20 00:56:08 <Toaster`> Question for you.
Jun 20 00:56:22 <DocMobilizer> sorry for delay
Jun 20 00:56:29 <DocMobilizer> xchat cfg
Jun 20 00:56:41 <DocMobilizer> no notify
Jun 20 00:56:45 <Toaster`> No worries.  I'm planning on doing some rework on my FR, both the buzz fix and the bass boost.
Jun 20 00:57:01 <DocMobilizer> cool
Jun 20 00:57:30 <Toaster`> The buzz fix is pretty straight forward (I have one of the techs from work on line to actually do the soldering), but I have a question about the bass fix
Jun 20 00:57:53 <DocMobilizer> really wish we shipped al fr with that
Jun 20 00:58:15 <DocMobilizer> go ahead
Jun 20 00:58:29 <Toaster`> I'm thinking of trying your (?) idea of a string of 4.7uF caps.  Do you have any suggestions on a specific process?
Jun 20 00:58:47 <Toaster`> I was planning on stringing them along two wires, and wrapping them in Kapton tap
Jun 20 00:58:50 <Toaster`> *tape
Jun 20 00:58:55 <DocMobilizer> yup, my idea
Jun 20 00:59:27 <DocMobilizer> sounds good
Jun 20 01:00:15 <Toaster`> ok.  Are there any other fix suggestions?  My tech is very experienced in small formfactor SMT work, so there isn't any concerns there.
Jun 20 01:00:57 <DocMobilizer> i found it incredibly hard to source components
Jun 20 01:01:03 <Toaster`> The only issue I have is finding RoHS solder, I'm not sure we have any at work :(
Jun 20 01:01:12 <DocMobilizer> suggest... lemme think
Jun 20 01:01:19 <Toaster`> digikey/stores at work supplies all of mine :)
Jun 20 01:01:45 <DocMobilizer> Toaster`, forget rohs solder
Jun 20 01:01:51 <Toaster`> no need?
Jun 20 01:02:23 <DocMobilizer> nah, experienced guy will know how
Jun 20 01:02:32 <Toaster`> cool
Jun 20 01:03:07 <DocMobilizer> rohs was for the avrg dummy
Jun 20 01:03:12 <Toaster`> Right.
Jun 20 01:03:53 <Toaster`> That's good.  We're in one of the exempt fields and I'd rather not have to worry about cross contamination
Jun 20 01:04:50 <DocMobilizer> never worry bout ceram cap, tantal fine
Jun 20 01:05:16 <DocMobilizer> consider #1024
Jun 20 01:05:25 <Toaster`> teh camping issue?
Jun 20 01:05:32 <Toaster`> I've never seen that manifested
Jun 20 01:05:34 <DocMobilizer> yo
Jun 20 01:05:57 <Toaster`> though I suppose I could use deep_sleep then, and maybe get better performance out of the battery
Jun 20 01:06:33 <DocMobilizer> seems device spec
Jun 20 01:06:34 <DocMobilizer> so nm
Jun 20 01:06:43 <DocMobilizer> yo 80 vs 130
Jun 20 01:06:55 <Toaster`> That's worth it to me
Jun 20 01:07:35 <Toaster`> 22uF 0805 should be readily available at work, so that's a non-issue
Jun 20 01:07:40 <DocMobilizer> see1024 only on sleep=4
Jun 20 01:07:56 <DocMobilizer> k. do it
Jun 20 01:08:15 <DocMobilizer> we borked layout
Jun 20 01:08:21 <DocMobilizer> fix that
Jun 20 01:08:35 <DocMobilizer> if you got option
Jun 20 01:08:37 <Toaster`> I should convince my EMI/EMC engineer at wor to review it as well..
Jun 20 01:08:43 <Toaster`> layout?
Jun 20 01:09:05 <DocMobilizer> schem/layout
Jun 20 01:09:32 <DocMobilizer> theres a feedback path thats borked
Jun 20 01:09:44 <DocMobilizer> 0R
Jun 20 01:09:51 <DocMobilizer> in the way
Jun 20 01:09:59 <Toaster`> Hrm... so are there other deep-sleep related issues other then the #1024?
Jun 20 01:10:03 <DocMobilizer> trace in the way
Jun 20 01:10:26 <DocMobilizer> nobody knows ;)
Jun 20 01:10:39 <DocMobilizer> no known ones
Jun 20 01:10:40 <Toaster`> fun fun... oh well, I can be a guniea pig
Jun 20 01:11:12 <DocMobilizer> nah 22uF is kinda tested
Jun 20 01:11:30 <Toaster`> I mean for the other deep_sleep issues
Jun 20 01:11:46 <DocMobilizer> huh?
Jun 20 01:11:59 <DocMobilizer> none known
Jun 20 01:12:18 <Toaster`> If I could have a buzz-fixed, bass-boosted, long-life suspended FR; I'd be a happy happy Toaster
Jun 20 01:12:21 <Toaster`> cool.
Jun 20 01:12:46 <DocMobilizer> its feasible
Jun 20 01:13:15 <DocMobilizer> we cant get HSPA
Jun 20 01:13:22 <DocMobilizer> but hey
Jun 20 01:13:44 <Toaster`> Any good sources of images for under the shield?  I don't want to open it up here (ESD 0/1 env @ work is safer)
Jun 20 01:13:52 <DocMobilizer> (chatting in pub, on FR)
Jun 20 01:14:22 <Toaster`> right.  Well, next time I'm in DE I'll buy a round
Jun 20 01:14:43 <DocMobilizer> sorry need to wait til @home
Jun 20 01:15:08 <Toaster`> ok
Jun 20 01:15:16 <DocMobilizer> np
Jun 20 01:15:27 <DocMobilizer> ping me in 30min
Jun 20 01:15:56 <Toaster`> cool.  Enjoy your pint :)
Jun 20 01:16:15 <DocMobilizer> finished ;-P
Jun 20 01:16:37 <DocMobilizer> got a bottle for take away
Jun 20 01:17:11 * Toaster` wishes he lived in a country that treat alcohol/people sensibly
Jun 20 01:17:13 <DocMobilizer> bill is done
Jun 20 01:17:29 <DocMobilizer> me moving - takes 10min
Jun 20 01:17:51 <DocMobilizer> where u?
Jun 20 01:17:56 <Toaster`> Canada
Jun 20 01:18:04 <DocMobilizer> ouch
Jun 20 01:18:16 <Toaster`> Beats the US :D
Jun 20 01:21:23 <Toaster`> DocMobilizer: I'm off for ~45 min.  I'll ping when I'm back
Jun 20 01:21:24 <DocMobilizer> ayayay. 2 beers and my english is fubar
Jun 20 01:21:42 <DocMobilizer> s/take away/to go/
Jun 20 01:21:51 <DocMobilizer> np
Jun 20 01:21:57 <Toaster`> I understood, and am still jealous :)
Jun 20 01:22:08 <DocMobilizer> i'm at home now
Jun 20 01:23:48 <DocScrutinizer>  eeek spiders invaded my living room while I was gone 3h
Jun 20 01:29:08 <DocScrutinizer> microwave popcorn. heritage from TPE :-)
Jun 20 01:34:35 <DocScrutinizer> actually TPE is much more like US than EU
Jun 20 01:37:02 <DocScrutinizer> is
Jun 20 02:12:07 <DocScrutinizer> toaster, I'm starting to feel tired
Jun 20 02:19:32 <Toaster`> DocScrutinizer: ping
Jun 20 02:19:37 <Toaster`> I'm back now
Jun 20 02:19:56 <DocScrutinizer> awake still, well somewhat
Jun 20 02:20:35 <Toaster`> I suppose it is pretty late over there...
Jun 20 02:21:10 <DocScrutinizer> nah, not for Fr eve
Jun 20 02:21:16 <Toaster`> True enough
Jun 20 02:21:37 <DocScrutinizer> though need to get up / be upnearly later
Jun 20 02:22:06 <DocScrutinizer> up early later on
Jun 20 02:22:12 <Toaster`> Understood
Jun 20 02:24:17 <DocScrutinizer> anything I can help before nap?
Jun 20 02:24:34 <Toaster`> I won't keep you then.  I'll track down a #1024 fixing capacitor at work on Monday, and I'll get talking with my tech to ensure we have all the details sorted out.
Jun 20 02:24:49 <Toaster`> If anything comes up, you mind if I bug you?
Jun 20 02:24:58 <Toaster`> Nope, just go sleep :)
Jun 20 02:25:03 <DocScrutinizer> nah, go ahead
Jun 20 02:25:15 <DocScrutinizer> any time
Jun 20 02:25:32 <Toaster`> Cool. Thanks.  Night
Jun 20 02:25:36 <DocScrutinizer> I feel good to be able to help
Jun 20 02:25:44 <DocScrutinizer> night
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 20 02:59:57 2009