**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 25 02:59:56 2009 Aug 25 06:51:48 Weiss: Hi Tom, I'm affected by narrower screen width too, but I like it :), because now is easier to scroll without executing something accidentaly :) Aug 25 07:11:45 morning Aug 25 08:06:26 good morning Aug 25 08:54:22 i'm back after a week of holidays Aug 25 09:27:27 JaMa: aha... which version of X.org do you use? Aug 25 09:27:58 1.6.3 now Aug 25 09:28:14 but I'm building master and bumped all individual packages to latest released Aug 25 09:28:29 it was the same with 1.6.1. and 1.6.2 Aug 25 09:29:13 ok, that's useful - thanks Aug 25 09:29:23 sorry about breaking compilation with < Git X.org.. i hope to fix that.. Aug 25 09:29:42 it was ok today Aug 25 09:29:46 no breakage Aug 25 09:29:58 I just droped my patch for dpmsconsts ;) Aug 25 09:30:13 you had an extra patch? Aug 25 09:30:41 yes.. that was part of my patch for OE.. sorry for not notifiing you.. Aug 25 09:30:58 no problem Aug 25 09:31:07 recipes/xorg-driver/xf86-video-glamo/xf86-video-glamo.dpmsconst.header.patch Aug 25 09:31:19 i guess you were using a new version of Xextproto even with Xorg 1.6.x? Aug 25 09:32:26 yes 7.0.5, now I'm trying 7.1* Aug 25 09:33:27 ah, ok Aug 25 09:40:15 methril|work: welcome back :) Aug 25 09:51:08 Weiss: hmm it looks like, we were doing the same today.. Today I prepared patch for latest xorg stuff quite similar to your new openmoko-dri.patch :/ Aug 25 10:05:33 dos1, you checked that frozen bubble builds I asume? Aug 25 10:11:23 dos1, applied it anyway ;) Aug 25 10:23:49 JaMa: no big deal.. Aug 25 10:32:52 SHR: 03seba.dos1 07opimd-utils * r33575cdaa57b 10/TODO: Update TODO Aug 25 10:33:00 SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-installer * r5b3a38540ffb 10/TODO: Update TODO Aug 25 10:33:11 SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-settings * r512da6ec1c64 10/TODO: [TODO] update Aug 25 10:34:38 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r25a5d2bc070b 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_generic.py: opimd: Don't create comp_value when not needed Aug 25 10:34:39 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r088bfce7ea11 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_generic.py: opimd: move making comp_value into function Aug 25 10:34:42 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rc9955fe84800 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_generic.py: opimd: handle comp_value correctly Aug 25 10:34:45 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rbebd0575c799 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (TODO pimd_generic.py): opimd: handle correctly blank fields Aug 25 10:34:48 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * ra14065414079 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/backend_manager.py: Aug 25 10:34:51 freesmartphone.org: opimd: backend manager: add GetInitialized method Aug 25 10:34:53 freesmartphone.org: ATM it always returns False, but it'll change when backends learns how to use it. Aug 25 10:34:58 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * rf0c2195243e6 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (TODO docs/TODO docs/api_overview.txt): opimd: little updates in docs directory Aug 25 10:35:01 freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r1b36e740965c 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (TODO docs/TODO docs/api_overview.txt): Merge branch 'master' into dos/opimd-tracking Aug 25 10:42:55 ;) Aug 25 10:43:03 commit spam ;) Aug 25 10:43:11 dos1: stop spamming Aug 25 10:43:23 ;) good boy though Aug 25 10:43:45 mrmoku: ?!! :-D Welcome back! Aug 25 10:44:22 DocScrutinizer, hehe, not yet :P Aug 25 10:44:26 still in sweden Aug 25 10:44:31 ooh Aug 25 10:44:41 emjoy your time then Aug 25 10:44:44 but I got me one week of internet access :) Aug 25 10:45:08 hehe :D Aug 25 10:45:17 though all this opimd commits rise expectations for phonegui-efl2 Aug 25 10:45:26 hi mrmoku ;) Aug 25 10:45:34 mrmoku: beware of fury Italian girls ;-) Aug 25 10:45:36 bumbl, hej :-) Aug 25 10:46:02 DocScrutinizer, nah, it was part of the deal to go three weeks instead of two... so nothing to fear :D Aug 25 10:46:09 mrmoku: in that short time when you wasn't there, i was able to break and then fix shr-unstable feed ;D Aug 25 10:46:30 dos1, :P; Aug 25 10:46:42 dos1, you've got buildhost access? Aug 25 10:46:46 dos1: be honest: breaking it was more fun, wasn't it? Aug 25 10:46:55 mrmoku: yup ;) Aug 25 10:46:59 bumbl: of course :D Aug 25 10:46:59 dos1: fix still pending for approval, no? ;-P Aug 25 10:47:06 dos1, you know about how to sync? Aug 25 10:47:32 mrmoku: yup, i looked at ~/.mrmoku file ;) Aug 25 10:47:37 ok :) Aug 25 10:48:17 dos1, I saw F4t has done some work on connman/mokonnect... Aug 25 10:48:22 what's the status there? Aug 25 10:48:51 mrmoku: he wanted to have mokonnect rev 110 built, and i built it Aug 25 10:48:55 mrmoku: for me it works fine ;) Aug 25 10:49:02 mrmoku: some people says it works ;) Aug 25 10:49:10 soltys, with which connman version? Aug 25 10:49:19 mrmoku: i didn't change connman version Aug 25 10:49:26 ok Aug 25 10:49:33 for me it still doesn't work, but for me it doesn't work even with pure wpa_supplicant ;P Aug 25 10:49:40 mrmoku: root@om-gta02 ~ $ connmand --version Aug 25 10:49:42 0.38 Aug 25 10:49:43 NM? Aug 25 10:50:11 soltys, that does not tell much... opkg list_installed | grep connman Aug 25 10:50:19 but IIRC 0.38 was what we reverted to... Aug 25 10:51:17 connman - 0.22+gitr1661+e77f2d1c63c96990529f4e4294337263b8738ff8-r1 - Aug 25 10:53:00 soltys, yes, e77f2d1... sounds familiar :) Aug 25 10:53:08 ;) Aug 25 10:53:22 dos1, if I upgrade my unstable now... will it explode? Aug 25 10:53:51 mrmoku: probably not, as exploding isn't implemented yet ;x Aug 25 10:54:01 dos1, implode? :P Aug 25 10:54:21 it will burn ;) Aug 25 10:54:41 * mrmoku likes fire and does opkg update / upgrade now ;) Aug 25 10:54:51 mrmoku: well, i'm building ATM frameworkd Aug 25 10:54:57 so wait few minutes ;) Aug 25 10:55:32 or maybe upgrade before you kill everything ;) Aug 25 10:56:05 * mrmoku is going to be confident and patient and just wait for the build to finish then.... Aug 25 10:56:40 dos1, btw. I applied your patch and Heinervdm's patch Aug 25 10:56:40 mrmoku: now package-index ;) Aug 25 10:56:57 I don't know about the other too (KMS kernel and navit config) Aug 25 10:57:36 mrmoku: http://xkcd.com/597/ Aug 25 10:57:49 yup, KMS needs checking Aug 25 10:58:03 dunno about navit - it seems to be exactly the same what i did recently Aug 25 10:58:23 but it seems i did something wrong ;x Aug 25 10:58:25 DocScrutinizer, hehe :) Aug 25 10:58:43 mrmoku: ?? Aug 25 10:58:53 DocScrutinizer, ahh sorry... Aug 25 10:58:55 PaulFertser, hehe :) Aug 25 10:59:09 hilights are yellow and difficult to read in the sun ;) Aug 25 10:59:17 aah, PaulFertser o/ Aug 25 10:59:17 mrmoku: do you already hear the whispers? Aug 25 10:59:17 * mrmoku changes color scheme... Aug 25 10:59:32 mrmoku: synced Aug 25 10:59:36 dos1, ok Aug 25 10:59:38 DocScrutinizer: hey-hey :D Aug 25 10:59:47 PaulFertser, whispers? Aug 25 11:00:07 dos1: hm did you break sth ?:P Aug 25 11:00:22 SHR has to move to N900? Aug 25 11:00:33 soltys: of course! ;) Aug 25 11:00:35 or which whisper? Aug 25 11:00:44 dos1: how nice ;) Aug 25 11:00:51 mrmoku: xkcd comics often have an inspiring alt teg you are supposed to see when hovering over the picture Aug 25 11:01:18 dos1: any idea why I get few of "Multiple packages (libfsobasics0 and libfsobasics0) providing same name marked HOLD or PREFER. Using latest." ? Aug 25 11:01:41 PaulFertser, ahh :-) Aug 25 11:02:01 PaulFertser, you mean the whispers that made me get internet access... I see :) Aug 25 11:02:15 PaulFertser, I heard them... but now I'm fine again :D Aug 25 11:03:03 PaulFertser: no hovering on ts-UI Aug 25 11:03:03 soltys: you broke something :P Aug 25 11:03:08 :-/ Aug 25 11:03:31 Dos1 : hi ! :) Aug 25 11:03:52 Not installing libfsotransport0 (0.9.3+gitr394+4893e3cfa02722b0a082c1c9d03bba7e30193fea-r6.1) on root -- already installed Aug 25 11:03:59 hmmm Aug 25 11:04:03 DocScrutinizer: I often use emacs-w3m for web access, there i need to watch the html source to read those additional lines. Aug 25 11:04:11 mrmoku: hmm? that's normal Aug 25 11:04:20 loool Aug 25 11:04:30 dos1, is it good too? :P Aug 25 11:04:36 or just normal... Aug 25 11:04:36 mrmoku: why not? Aug 25 11:04:44 I guess maemo-browser can do that too Aug 25 11:04:55 mrmoku: well, opkg shouldn't say that, as it doesn't make sense Aug 25 11:05:05 mrmoku: but that's normal and good behaviour ;) Aug 25 11:05:19 mrmoku: just other package managers don't have printf in that place :P Aug 25 11:06:02 mrmoku: http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900-en.shtml Aug 25 11:06:04 Oh mrmoku Aug 25 11:06:08 Are the holidays good? :-) Aug 25 11:06:08 sth to drool Aug 25 11:06:21 ST1: hi ;) Aug 25 11:06:52 mrmoku: the patch for wbxml2 and libsyncml? Aug 25 11:07:19 dos1: Tell me, i'm searching how to fill a bug but i'm a little lost .. can you help me ? Aug 25 11:07:51 Heinervdm, yep Aug 25 11:08:04 dos1: so how about deleting THIS printf() first, then changing the one in dbus to rise_signal(SIGBUSERR) Aug 25 11:08:07 Ainulindale, yep fine :) Aug 25 11:08:25 mrmoku: ok, thx. Whats with the Ace of Penguins patch? ;) Aug 25 11:08:26 ST1: http://trac.shr-project.org/ Aug 25 11:08:26 mrmoku: You fight is not beating you up? :-) Aug 25 11:09:13 Ainulindale, hmm? Aug 25 11:09:25 Heinervdm, IIRC it is allready applied... Aug 25 11:09:45 mrmoku: ok, thx i love these games ;) Aug 25 11:10:25 mrmoku: well for being on your laptop Aug 25 11:12:41 "" they'll keep churning out both S60- and Maemo-based phones. And while an ordinary consumer might get a headache because of this variety, those who'll try the RX-51 or the likes one won't have to think twice about which OS to go for ever again. "" Aug 25 11:13:54 Ainulindale, we made a deal... +1 week == +laptop :P Aug 25 11:14:14 sounds like a win/win deal :-) Aug 25 11:18:23 DocScrutinizer, yep Aug 25 11:18:28 hmm Aug 25 11:18:30 DocScrutinizer, interesting article... still reading Aug 25 11:19:00 I tried out gmail using iphone interface, but firefox renders the page with constant jumping up and down Aug 25 11:21:03 dos1, ok, rebooting now Aug 25 11:25:56 PaulFertser: will you follow up on Harals's mail? I assume you asked him for that, so... :) Aug 25 11:27:50 uuhhh installer has an icon :D Aug 25 11:29:20 * mrmoku puts up the green flag for opkg upgrade on shr-unstable :D Aug 25 11:30:41 hmm Aug 25 11:31:05 mrmoku: woohooo, so finally I might dare Aug 25 11:31:23 Did anybody read Thomas White's email? Especially about installing his newest X work, with "mixed mode pixmap handling" which "speeds things up a lot" Aug 25 11:31:24 how *long* will this statement hold valid? Aug 25 11:31:42 ? Aug 25 11:32:08 DocScrutinizer, your experience might vary... my unstable was not very old :P Aug 25 11:32:49 and if I don't hurry, it may bite my ass anyway Aug 25 11:33:06 mrmoku: does that icon look like others from shr-theme? Aug 25 11:33:30 I think the average full cycle time for last 2 weeks was ~4h Aug 25 11:33:40 mrmoku: and the same with openmoocow and openBmap? Aug 25 11:34:00 from works - aet your system - back to work Aug 25 11:34:04 dos1, looks good... and intone too Aug 25 11:34:12 yup Aug 25 11:34:21 dos1, good boy :D Aug 25 11:34:34 * mrmoku off to the beach now ;) Aug 25 11:34:37 mrmoku: i extracted template similar to that icons from phonegui mockups ;) Aug 25 11:34:44 hehe Aug 25 11:34:45 source for gimp is already in git repo Aug 25 11:34:54 how can i build gtk+, i'm getting 'syntax error in VERSION script' while compiling... Aug 25 11:34:55 dos1, that is good Aug 25 11:34:59 gimp? for openmoko? Aug 25 11:35:10 ehh how perverse idea is it ... Aug 25 11:35:12 anyway... probably bbl Aug 25 11:35:14 khiraly1: a) that's nor what i mean Aug 25 11:35:21 khiraly1: b) why not? i had gimp on neo Aug 25 11:35:29 it was quite slow, but it was working :P Aug 25 11:35:39 because my normal gimp session contains min. 3 windows Aug 25 11:35:56 dos1: do you know how to change user agent id in midori? Aug 25 11:36:03 want to try out gmail with midori Aug 25 11:36:14 dunno, i'm using links ;) Aug 25 11:37:11 khiraly1: i want to look at it, but i can't compile midori because gtk+ fails Aug 25 11:37:41 Heinervdm: Im using midori on my desktop (ubuntu 9.04), maybe its more easier to fiddling with Aug 25 11:39:27 khiraly1: Configuration -> Network -> Custom Aug 25 11:39:54 Heinervdm: edit->configuration? Aug 25 11:40:10 khiraly1: yes Aug 25 11:41:14 edit->preferences->[general, appearance, behavior, interface, privacy] Aug 25 11:41:16 which one? Aug 25 11:41:24 dont see user agent anywhere Aug 25 11:43:04 there is also a Tools->[bookmarks, history, console, userscripts, userstyles, extensions] Aug 25 11:43:18 Im using midori 0.1.2 Aug 25 11:43:20 khiraly1: i try to start midori with LOCALE=C Aug 25 11:43:31 I did ;) Aug 25 11:44:00 Edit -> Preferences -> Nework Aug 25 11:44:08 i'm having midori 0.1.8 Aug 25 11:44:19 ok, so Im on a too old version Aug 25 11:44:46 hmm, 'midori is already the newest version' Aug 25 11:45:45 the newest are 0.1.9 Aug 25 11:45:58 but not in ubuntu repositories Aug 25 11:45:58 khiraly1: gmail looks like it's usable on the FR with the UserAgent form IPhone Aug 25 11:46:09 yeah, I suspect too Aug 25 11:46:10 khiraly1: you can try the debian version Aug 25 11:46:17 where to? Aug 25 11:47:20 the newest version in hardy (older than jaunty) is 0.1.7, while in jaunty is 0.1.2 Aug 25 11:48:21 khiraly1: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/web/midori at the bottom, but you probable better use the jaunty version Aug 25 11:48:40 yeah, just for yaunty the newest are 0.1.2 Aug 25 11:48:53 äh hardy Aug 25 11:52:36 for jaunty: http://unixlab.blogspot.com/2009/07/installing-midori-on-ubuntu-jaunty.html Aug 25 12:02:55 hmm Aug 25 12:03:06 the interface is different under midori Aug 25 12:03:53 khiraly1: different to what? Aug 25 12:04:01 to firefox? Aug 25 12:04:13 yepp to firefox with user agent iphone 3.0 Aug 25 12:04:21 different buttons used in midori Aug 25 12:04:34 doh! Aug 25 12:04:51 in ssh trac the user agent is older than with iphone 3.0 (under firefox) Aug 25 12:04:55 Excuse me, but does anyone know how to exit a python program ? is there any exit or quit command ? Aug 25 12:05:03 quit() Aug 25 12:05:09 and ctrl-d Aug 25 12:05:24 thanks a lot khiraly1 Aug 25 12:05:25 or exit() Aug 25 12:09:16 ptitjes: dider!! Aug 25 12:09:30 ptitjes: welcome back to the world. how was your back-to-nature thing? Aug 25 12:10:37 ptitjes: i'll update my vala copy and check whether things still works Aug 25 12:11:39 i had some strange SIGSEGVS in libfso-glib, then patched the 'yield' thing out and suddenly it worked again Aug 25 12:11:47 (in dbus-binding-tool) Aug 25 12:12:04 that was in fsousaged, where it uses async on client side Aug 25 12:12:32 khiraly1 : I tried exit() but tha mainloop.run() don't want to quit my main program :( Aug 25 12:12:43 quit() ? Aug 25 12:13:08 khiraly1 : trying... Aug 25 12:14:03 khiraly1: Nope still stuck in this mainloop.run()... Aug 25 12:14:14 mainloop.run ... is it a e program? Aug 25 12:14:17 wait a sec Aug 25 12:14:30 elementary.exit() Aug 25 12:15:01 Heinervdm: Trying... Aug 25 12:15:08 main_loop_quit() Aug 25 12:15:17 ecore.main_loop_quit() Aug 25 12:15:51 or if elementary, than what Heinervdm suggested Aug 25 12:16:35 in fact it's not a e program... my mainloop comes directly from dbus.mainloop Aug 25 12:18:04 ahh Aug 25 12:21:33 Ok found. Aug 25 12:21:37 mainloop.quit () -_- Aug 25 12:28:23 ptitjes: everything still works, but the SIGSEGV when using async dbus is still present Aug 25 12:28:36 so i still have to patch out the 'yields' construct in vala-dbus-binding-tool Aug 25 12:30:20 http://pastebin.com/m5ed34605 Aug 25 12:35:47 ok Aug 25 12:36:09 Heinervdm: I made a full research, and midori needs definietly some work Aug 25 12:36:28 I posted many screenshot of midori to the mailing list. Please check it ... Aug 25 12:36:29 Ainulindale, ping Aug 25 12:36:50 khiraly1: there exists already a patch for midori for the useragent Aug 25 12:37:10 yepp, but midori itself does not render correctly gmail's iphone interface Aug 25 12:37:57 khiraly1: we have 0.1.2 on freerunner, perhaps we should update to 0.1.8 Aug 25 12:38:08 0.1.9 the newest version Aug 25 12:38:42 but we definietly need to push midori a little. It *almost* works Aug 25 12:41:10 hmm, there is woot, or whatever for browsing Aug 25 12:41:11 i try to build midori 0.1.8 because this should work by just renaming the reciepe Aug 25 12:41:16 Heinervdm: did you tried it out too:, Aug 25 12:41:27 woosh Aug 25 12:41:28 Heinervdm: it is not really usable for gmail Aug 25 12:41:40 khiraly1: the latest patches of woosh are from me ;) Aug 25 12:41:57 Heinervdm: midori (in its current state) does not work with gmail mobile interface Aug 25 12:42:23 please read my mail on the openmoko-community mailing list. I posted many screenshots too Aug 25 12:42:42 woosh, hmm... Aug 25 12:42:48 is it installable on ubuntu jaunty? Aug 25 12:42:50 any idea? Aug 25 12:43:21 aptitude search woosh should help Aug 25 12:43:43 playya: I mean some unofficial repository;) Aug 25 12:44:11 khiraly1: no, its a app from hackable:1 only for freerunner Aug 25 12:44:27 written by Marcus Bauer the author of TangoGPS Aug 25 12:44:35 Heinervdm: can you try it out on gmail mobile? Aug 25 12:44:41 and post some screenshots Aug 25 12:44:53 some basic task: read some email, and read emails with label Aug 25 12:47:15 woosh isn't that nice Aug 25 12:47:34 i think we should use an activly developed browser Aug 25 12:47:39 there is a browser using e bindings and webkit, what is the name of it? Aug 25 12:47:46 eve Aug 25 12:47:54 but it has no finger scrolling Aug 25 12:48:07 doh Aug 25 12:48:43 Heinervdm: eve has no finger scrolling? Aug 25 12:48:55 WTF? when i tried it, it had ;x Aug 25 12:49:24 is there a homepage of eve? Aug 25 12:50:26 i'm building the current svn version, lets see if it has it now Aug 25 12:50:50 Heinervdm: do you have any link? Aug 25 12:50:54 playya: pong Aug 25 12:50:58 is that for your patch? Aug 25 12:51:06 nope. Aug 25 12:51:13 i resend it today Aug 25 12:51:21 you resent it or you'll resend it? Aug 25 12:51:26 khiraly1: no, it's an e project, so no documentation and no real information ;) Aug 25 12:51:36 i'll resend it with the patch Aug 25 12:51:44 but could we use flite-alsa instead of flite Aug 25 12:52:03 you have to load oss-pcm-snd for flite Aug 25 12:52:28 Heinervdm: link for the svn? or the svn checkout command? Aug 25 12:53:07 khiraly1: http://heinervdm.dyndns.info/shr-dist/eve_svn.bb Aug 25 12:53:15 bitbake reciepe Aug 25 12:55:06 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Eve Aug 25 12:55:30 playya: oss-psm-snd is deprecated. install libaoss and use aoss wrapper instead! Aug 25 12:55:43 playya: why for flite? Aug 25 12:55:50 or directly use flite-alsa Aug 25 12:55:50 playya: use espeak Aug 25 12:56:20 playya: even better, yes Aug 25 12:56:36 playya: espeak writing to stdout, piped to aplay is the fastest way to use speech in navit :P Aug 25 12:57:08 let me test it Aug 25 12:57:39 are there other languages for espeak? Aug 25 13:01:25 yup Aug 25 13:01:35 polish works well Aug 25 13:02:09 hmm. but not in the shr repository Aug 25 13:03:06 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libgsm0710mux * rdf01e9e81775 10/gsm0710mux/ (consts.vala manager.vala multiplexer.vala): change errors to Vala standard format Aug 25 13:03:21 playya: hmm? Aug 25 13:03:31 playya: i'm using only shr repo Aug 25 13:03:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r636c7dd86819 10/src/server.vala: catch up with new error names in libgsm0710mux Aug 25 13:03:53 opkg list| grep espeak only shows me espeak Aug 25 13:05:38 playya: so? Aug 25 13:06:37 espeak -v pl "To jest przykładowy tekst w języku polskim" --stdout | aplay - Aug 25 13:06:39 works well Aug 25 13:06:53 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * ra4f65077c3fa 10/src/server.vala: catch session errors from libgsm0710mux Aug 25 13:07:05 without --stdout | aplay - also works, but there is little latency on startup Aug 25 13:07:50 "To jest przykładowy tekst w języku polskim" = "This is example text in polish language" Aug 25 13:08:10 oh. other language aren't in extra packages Aug 25 13:09:24 playya: espeak --voices Aug 25 13:19:26 hmm Aug 25 14:03:01 playya: what were you needing from me? Aug 25 14:03:05 You didn't tell Aug 25 14:20:03 Ainulindale, dos1 pointed me to espeak instead of flite. so it's done for now Aug 25 14:23:35 Ok :-) Aug 25 14:45:09 khiraly1: can you tell me why using just mutt with IMAP is not enough for your purposes? Aug 25 14:46:03 because I never used mutt, and Im on linux since 2000? Aug 25 14:46:37 so its not time to begin to learn mutt. And Im pretty sure most of the users do not want to mess with mutt Aug 25 14:46:41 khiraly1: hm? What about pine/alpine/other popural MUAs? Aug 25 14:46:55 and what about a MUA with gui? Aug 25 14:47:08 btw, did you try out the iphone interface of gmail? Aug 25 14:47:21 I tend to prefer it over regular user interface ... Aug 25 14:47:23 ;) Aug 25 14:49:23 hi guys... Aug 25 14:49:47 is here anyone who use successfully elock? when it shows, enlightenment crashes :( Aug 25 14:50:47 khiraly1: i don't use webinterfaces Aug 25 14:51:12 khiraly1: and MUA with gui doesn't make sense, i've never seen one that was any more convenient/functional than mutt... Aug 25 14:51:42 i use gmail interface a lot, and i finally prefer it over evolution and others Aug 25 14:51:58 its fast. Only downside, it requires network connection Aug 25 14:52:33 however, I understand you. But please recognize, that your case its less than 10 percent of all users;) Aug 25 14:54:46 and the iphone interface of gmail is really good for finger usage Aug 25 14:55:10 you cant be as fast with mutt with a virtual keyboard... Aug 25 14:55:24 PaulFertser: I agree with khiraly1 - I get a *lot* of mail, and sorting and moving things into folders is much quicker in a GUI... Aug 25 14:55:55 As always, it depends on your specific use cases, but for the vast majority of users a 'real' GUI is much easier and quicker... Aug 25 14:56:30 anyway, gmail's iphone interface is really nice. We need to get it onto the freerunner. And it does not prevent you to use your regular mutt client Aug 25 14:56:48 its a win-win situation Aug 25 14:57:23 khiraly1: sounds great... Would sound better if I could reliably get either wifi or gprs working... :-) Aug 25 14:59:54 agree... Aug 25 15:01:31 wjbaird: sorting/moving should be done automatically, no? Also i can't see how GUI can help that anyway... Aug 25 15:02:14 PaulFertser: something can automatically tell which emails of mine correspond to a high, medium or low priority project? I want your AI... Aug 25 15:15:11 wjbaird: hm, for different projects different MLs used usually or there's some keyword in subject or smth like that. And even if you do it manually, i can't see why GUI can be any better than mutt. Aug 25 15:17:35 PaulFertser: I'll describe my use case more completely --- I'm a product manager for a software company - I get tonnes of emails - none of them from mailing lists, and all of them related to various projects, products, or emergencies going on. I scan through the emails, reply to the ones I can immediately deal with, and then manually sort the rest by priority. I have my folder list down the left of my screen, and I can quickly scr Aug 25 15:17:52 I used to use both elm and mutt - I definitely could not do what I need to nearly as easily in them. Aug 25 15:18:18 wjbaird: "and I can quickly scr" were the last words. Aug 25 15:18:31 doh. Aug 25 15:18:42 ... I can quickly scroll through the list of emails, multi-selecting the messages that should go into the folders for high, medium and low priority. and then can easily drag them to that folder. Aug 25 15:18:52 wjbaird: you can use splitlong.pl script for irssi to auto-split long messages. Aug 25 15:20:46 wjbaird: you can have folder list visible all the time in mutt too, there's some patch for that. As to selecting, well i'm not sure, probably it can be slightly faster with mouse. But selecting with mouse is easy to add to any console app. As to "dragging" i seriously doubt the effectiveness of this technique in general ever. Aug 25 15:21:19 anyone know how use git send-email ? Aug 25 15:23:28 soltys: yup Aug 25 15:23:31 soltys: man knows ;> Aug 25 15:24:41 PaulFertser: (dragging) - as opposed to what? Typing the name of the folder? Aug 25 15:24:43 khiraly1: btw, i've never needed to download all of my emails from gmail, and i use it through IMAP. And thrashing works exactly the same way. Aug 25 15:25:31 wjbaird: yes, esp. when there's name completion. If you can type you'll spend almost the same time but the probablity of mistake will be lower, i guess. Aug 25 15:25:32 PaulFertser: maybe its my bad. But the synchronizing part is 100% percent sure. I tried it for a week Aug 25 15:25:48 khiraly1: what did you use for sychronizing? Aug 25 15:25:53 evolution Aug 25 15:26:26 khiraly1: ?? Aug 25 15:26:41 khiraly1: why not imapsync or other well-established solutions? Aug 25 15:27:01 because I didnt want to rtfm for an another week?;) Aug 25 15:27:23 PaulFertser: I don't think so -- 95% of the time I'm dragging the emails to one of about 5 different folders... they are positioned right beside the mail list, so I only have to drag the mouse about two or three cm to drop 'em in the right folder... It's very quick. Aug 25 15:27:24 And I used evolution at that time. Now I completely migrated over gmail Aug 25 15:28:04 wjbaird: oh, than you can just make a shortcut like C-F1, C-F2 etc, will be even faster and error-immune comparing to dragging. Aug 25 15:28:36 PaulFertser: have you spent any serious time using a GUI mail client? A very die-hard mutt user who I know very well recently tried using thunderbird for a few weeks, and had to grudgingly admit it was much better... Aug 25 15:28:55 but please recognize your argument: teaching everybody to use a "proper" (ie. console) MUA, rather than using an intuitive interface (which is slower or not) Aug 25 15:29:10 khiraly1: of course gmail sucks and their imap implementation sucks too but i don't trust Evolution even a little bit. Aug 25 15:29:44 evolution was far the best gui MUA around 2002 and I kept using until some months ago Aug 25 15:29:50 wjbaird: i almost don't use mouse so i doubt i'll be able to feel the benefits. And really, since you have only really limited number of folders, why not make shortcuts? Aug 25 15:29:59 its a big monster neverthless, but was usable Aug 25 15:30:20 PaulFertser: you can make shortcuts in gmail too Aug 25 15:30:38 PaulFertser: I tend to think spatially --- it's the way I organize thing... Aug 25 15:30:55 khiraly1: gmail is web app. Web app == stupid/bad app. By definition. Aug 25 15:31:02 and note the other big advantage of gmail: you can check your email from any computer Aug 25 15:31:17 khiraly1: o really? Aug 25 15:31:27 khiraly1: how do i ensure it doesn't have any keyloggers installed first? Aug 25 15:31:56 khiraly1: and when i do that why not just ssh in my computer and connect to screen running mutt? Aug 25 15:31:57 while your solution needs a hand-customized mutt MUA Aug 25 15:32:15 my computer is a laptop, its not always switched on Aug 25 15:32:29 khiraly1: then read mail on server/vps/whatever... Aug 25 15:32:47 but I agree, you can be as productive or even more productive than other gmail users. But its really not the point. The point is, we cant teach everybody to use MUA Aug 25 15:32:54 MUA -> console MUA Aug 25 15:33:13 btw, most of the users dont have a server where they could ssh in Aug 25 15:33:16 khiraly1: we don't want to, so what's the problem? Aug 25 15:33:31 included myself. I only got recently one. (I didnt had one for almost 2 years) Aug 25 15:34:04