**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 13 02:59:56 2009
Oct 13 03:24:36 <Blu3> PaulFertser, ping: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards/SD-C02G
Oct 13 03:24:50 <Blu3> apparently plenty of others are experiencing issues too
Oct 13 03:26:19 <Blu3> http://www.mail-archive.com/smartphones-userland@linuxtogo.org/msg01089.html
Oct 13 06:12:46 <Arhuaco> Hello PaulFertser.
Oct 13 07:19:59 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * ra37e2ade67aa 10/vapi/elm.vapi: elm.vapi: catch up with upstream API changes as per rev 43043
Oct 13 07:22:09 <PaulFertser> Blu3: i knew about SD-GSM issues but it was observed only with specific cards iirc
Oct 13 07:23:49 <JaMa> tmzt: 557 38667 -4654632 -51172 121 46965312 65536
Oct 13 07:24:10 <tmzt> ah, thanks
Oct 13 07:24:14 <tmzt> forgot about that
Oct 13 07:24:18 <tmzt> are you using Xorg?
Oct 13 07:37:14 <JaMa> tmzt: yes
Oct 13 07:39:12 <tmzt> with tslib driver?
Oct 13 07:40:32 <JaMa> no evdev
Oct 13 07:42:16 <tmzt> oh, how is that done?
Oct 13 07:57:04 <JaMa> tmzt: what? working evdev? Thomas White has some static calibration data.. its taken from here http://www.bitwiz.org.uk/openmoko/xserver-init-lines and used in new shr-unstable
Oct 13 08:03:53 <tmzt> right, since the freerunners all have the same calibration data
Oct 13 08:04:06 <tmzt> can you compare with the results of this?
Oct 13 08:04:31 <tmzt> https://faceofboe.endoftheinternet.org/~darkstar62/pointercal_to_xinput.sh
Oct 13 08:04:39 <tmzt> also, how is it hard coded?
Oct 13 08:04:54 <tmzt> oh, ok
Oct 13 08:04:57 <tmzt> so it's through the kernel
Oct 13 08:07:01 <tmzt> my interest would be in something that could be used remotely or with something like irssi as a plugin, but I don't have any immediate need for that on webos
Oct 13 08:07:14 <tmzt> sorry
Oct 13 08:07:16 <tmzt> wrong channel
Oct 13 08:18:00 <JaMa> tmzt: I don't have perl on my neo.. mmt
Oct 13 08:22:08 <JaMa> tmzt: http://shr.pastebin.ca/1617500
Oct 13 08:23:26 <tmzt> well, can you DISPLAY=:0 xinput list
Oct 13 08:23:39 <tmzt> change the name or id to match and run that?
Oct 13 08:23:57 <tmzt> the last two lines are only needed if the screen is rotated
Oct 13 08:26:21 <JaMa> tmzt: no xinput command.. mmt again
Oct 13 08:26:36 <tmzt> hey, sorry
Oct 13 08:26:45 <tmzt> thanks for being so helpful though
Oct 13 08:29:04 <JaMa> you're welcome
Oct 13 08:31:46 <JaMa> tmzt: http://pastebin.ca/1617510
Oct 13 08:34:06 <tmzt> can you change "MSM touchscreen" to "Touchscreen" and run the first line?
Oct 13 08:34:13 <tmzt> see if ts still works for you in X
Oct 13 08:38:57 <JaMa> tmzt: probably not correct syntax
Oct 13 08:38:58 <JaMa> SHR root@gojama ~ $ xinput set-int-prop "Touchscreen" "Evdev Axis Calibration" 32
Oct 13 08:39:02 <JaMa> Usage: xinput set-int-prop <device> <property> <format (8, 16, 32)> <val> [<val> ...]
Oct 13 08:39:54 <tmzt> can you paste the first line of pointercal.sh ?
Oct 13 08:40:00 <tmzt> just here
Oct 13 08:40:05 <tmzt> I already closed the other one
Oct 13 08:40:11 <JaMa> it was in that pastebin
Oct 13 08:40:23 <JaMa> hmm strange sorry :)
Oct 13 08:40:33 <JaMa> that was pointercal.sh from first run without perl :)
Oct 13 08:40:34 <tmzt> found the url
Oct 13 08:40:38 <tmzt> ah, right
Oct 13 08:41:47 <JaMa> now it executes fine.. but I cannot test if touchscreen is calibrated right.. because am at work and neo is at home.. :/
Oct 13 08:41:57 <tmzt> oh, ok
Oct 13 08:42:10 <JaMa> tmzt: ping me in the evening..
Oct 13 08:42:10 <tmzt> can you paste the good values here
Oct 13 08:42:15 <tmzt> since they are the same for all fr
Oct 13 08:42:29 <JaMa> xinput set-int-prop "Touchscreen" "Evdev Axis Calibration" 32 100 918 932 107
Oct 13 08:42:32 <JaMa> xinput set-int-prop "Touchscreen" "Evdev Axis Inversion" 8 0 1
Oct 13 08:42:34 <JaMa> xinput set-int-prop "Touchscreen" "Evdev Axes Swap" 8 1
Oct 13 08:43:02 <tmzt> ok, the last two are only used when rotated but the patch to enable/disable them is not in X so I do it manually on my device
Oct 13 08:43:18 <tmzt> he (darkstar) copied that into the script but it shouldn't really be there
Oct 13 08:48:15 <rhkfin> Any hot discussion about wikireader? Anyone have further infomation connectors? Only uSD? Possibility to reflash the software?
Oct 13 08:54:44 <baruch> It seems nothing was released about the device
Oct 13 08:55:01 <baruch> It doesn't seem like a useful device to me
Oct 13 08:56:53 <rhkfin> If you're online 24/7 then propably no, but think about kids, especially in poorer countries?
Oct 13 08:59:42 <Heinervdm> mickeyl: can you tell me what's wrong with fso-monitord? There is no commit since 4 months but now it doesn't compile: http://shr.pastebin.com/m397a5bfd I have dbus 1.3.0, vala-native 0.7.7 and dbus-glib 0.82
Oct 13 09:03:06 <playya_> vala changed a lot in the last 4 months
Oct 13 09:03:29 <Heinervdm> playya_: but i'm sure i compiled it with vala 0.7.7
Oct 13 09:03:59 <playya_> strange
Oct 13 09:04:20 <playya_> i didn't push it yet because of malformed C code
Oct 13 09:04:38 <Heinervdm> playya_: ok, i'm not sure, perhaps it isn't needed for shr
Oct 13 09:04:52 <Heinervdm> und in shr-oemerge are some wrong depencies
Oct 13 09:05:41 <JaMa> Heinervdm: did you have dbus-1.3.0 before?
Oct 13 09:05:57 <Heinervdm> JaMa: no, but i tried with 1.2.14 too
Oct 13 09:09:04 <Heinervdm> playya_, JaMa: ok fso-monitord wasn't included in SHR
Oct 13 09:09:15 <playya_> yes
Oct 13 09:09:52 <playya_> some guys complained that fso-monitord restarts frameworkd all the time, even you stop it
Oct 13 09:10:01 <Heinervdm> task-fso-compliance in org.oe.dev is an older revision
Oct 13 09:10:40 <Heinervdm> then i can try shr-image again :)
Oct 13 09:11:14 <JaMa> Yesterday I run out of space on build partition while building image, now all package staging ends with http://pastebin.ca/1617552, any idea how to fix it without purging tmpdir?
Oct 13 09:13:01 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: shr-oemerge will hopefully build now :) i'm trying to build shr-image now and then send the last patch
Oct 13 09:13:12 <mrmoku> :)
Oct 13 09:13:16 <mrmoku> ok, will apply then
Oct 13 09:13:29 <JaMa> great!
Oct 13 09:13:38 <Heinervdm> do we need connman-test-utils ?
Oct 13 09:14:05 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: btw... the last thing I ran into was blktool not building...
Oct 13 09:14:08 <mrmoku> have you seen that?
Oct 13 09:14:28 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: as default or in general?
Oct 13 09:14:39 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: in general
Oct 13 09:14:53 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: there is no such package in org.oe.dev
Oct 13 09:15:00 <mrmoku> huh?
Oct 13 09:15:19 <mrmoku> openembedded/recipes/blktool/
Oct 13 09:15:34 <mrmoku> I have that in shr/merge
Oct 13 09:16:15 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: the second line was about connman ;)
Oct 13 09:16:29 <mrmoku> ahh :)
Oct 13 09:16:41 <Heinervdm> blktool build fine for me, but it was before glibc bump
Oct 13 09:17:17 <mrmoku> the test scripts are usefull to explore connman... but we don't necessarily need that as a package
Oct 13 09:17:25 <mrmoku> so I'm fine with them not existing :)
Oct 13 09:17:30 <Heinervdm> i added the package now
Oct 13 09:17:36 <mrmoku> hehe
Oct 13 09:19:39 <pespin> mrmoku, with updates from yesterday, on booting sometimes frameworkd doesn't power up GSM correctly. I had to restart it in order to get ophonekitd window to insert the PIN
Oct 13 09:20:04 <pespin> I'll try to pass you the logs this afternoon
Oct 13 09:24:41 <panicking> Hi all
Oct 13 09:24:44 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: can you apply all shr/merge patches?
Oct 13 09:24:47 <panicking> is there a drm-glamo channel
Oct 13 09:24:50 <panicking> ?
Oct 13 09:26:19 <JaMa> panicking: i guess no.. ping Weiss here
Oct 13 09:26:29 <panicking> ok
Oct 13 09:26:35 <panicking> Weiss, are you there?
Oct 13 09:30:53 <spaetz> TAsn: quorum reached?
Oct 13 09:35:49 <Ainulindale> There was not that many answers on the ML :-)
Oct 13 09:37:40 <spaetz> well, mrmoku, tasn, dos1, me. and some Ainu guy :)
Oct 13 09:37:58 <spaetz> who seems quite indecisive ;)
Oct 13 09:38:16 <Ainulindale> Pffft :-)
Oct 13 09:38:17 <Ainulindale> Well
Oct 13 09:38:22 <Ainulindale> As I told on the ML
Oct 13 09:38:28 <Ainulindale> I don't like any of the user preferred logo
Oct 13 09:38:36 <Ainulindale> But my vote is only one vote
Oct 13 09:38:46 <Ainulindale> So I'm caving in and just letting you choose :-)
Oct 13 09:39:08 <spaetz> well, as I said. It's not my favorite either, but if users like that best, than they should get it....
Oct 13 09:39:11 * spaetz shrugs
Oct 13 09:39:34 <spaetz> the number of votes seems quite high (if people were honest)
Oct 13 09:41:11 <Heinervdm> spaetz: what were the 2 top votes? can you tell me?
Oct 13 09:44:33 <rhkfin> which one did win the vote?
Oct 13 09:45:41 <mrmoku> pespin: ok, looks would be fine :)
Oct 13 09:46:17 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: yep, will apply now
Oct 13 09:46:37 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: bluez-utils will fail
Oct 13 09:46:47 <Heinervdm> trying newer version now
Oct 13 09:50:39 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: applied and pushed
Oct 13 09:58:07 <spaetz> does shr-merge follow dev.oe.org?
Oct 13 09:59:06 <Heinervdm> spaetz: not now, but i'm working on merging our stuff into dev.oe.org, perhaps i'm done now :)
Oct 13 10:00:12 <spaetz> cool
Oct 13 10:01:20 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: last patch sent (hopefully ;) )
Oct 13 10:03:29 <mrmoku> spaetz: shr/merge was created from oe.dev and we once pulled from it
Oct 13 10:04:44 <rhkfin> What's the status of -testing?
Oct 13 10:04:59 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: we want to follow org.oe.dev, so we have to pull from it periodicaly
Oct 13 10:05:49 <mrmoku> yup
Oct 13 10:05:49 <mrmoku> want me to pull?
Oct 13 10:05:49 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: applyed my last patch?
Oct 13 10:05:49 <mrmoku> yup
Oct 13 10:05:49 <Heinervdm> then you can :)
Oct 13 10:05:50 <mrmoku> ok
Oct 13 10:06:44 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: pulled and pushed
Oct 13 10:07:07 <mrmoku> mickey|office: thanks to Heinervdm we're getting closer to org.oe.dev :)
Oct 13 10:07:07 <Heinervdm> ok, then i can pull too :)
Oct 13 10:07:48 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: the question is, what do we do with it now? merge back???
Oct 13 10:08:02 <mickey|office> mrmoku: awesome. i'm really glad about that
Oct 13 10:08:08 <mickey|office> ~praise Heinervdm 
Oct 13 10:08:10 <spaetz> mrmoku: but can't you --track dev.oe.org and it will do that automatically?
Oct 13 10:08:10 <apt> All hail Heinervdm!
Oct 13 10:08:14 <spaetz> sorry if I am totally off, as you all know, I am a git dumbass :)
Oct 13 10:08:18 <Heinervdm> spaetz: that will only work for local branche not for remote
Oct 13 10:08:23 <spaetz> Heinervdm: ahh, ok
Oct 13 10:08:39 <mrmoku> I don't know if one can track two branches... hmm
Oct 13 10:08:42 <Heinervdm> spaetz: perhaps there is an other way then --track
Oct 13 10:08:44 <spaetz> thought there might be a reason for mrmoku to act like he does :)
Oct 13 10:09:08 <Heinervdm> but we have to ask a git expert for that :)
Oct 13 10:09:54 <spaetz> ? http://hxbc.us/journal/+post/78/
Oct 13 10:10:08 <spaetz> Tracking 2 branches in git-svn
Oct 13 10:10:15 <Heinervdm> git-svn
Oct 13 10:10:19 <spaetz> nahh, it's about svn. sorry
Oct 13 10:10:22 <mrmoku> root@om-gta02 ~ $ mdbus -s org.shr.phoneuid 2>/dev/null
Oct 13 10:10:22 <mrmoku> /org/shr
Oct 13 10:10:22 <mrmoku> /org/shr/phoneuid
Oct 13 10:10:22 <mrmoku> /org/shr/phoneuid/CallManagement
Oct 13 10:10:24 <mrmoku> /org/shr/phoneuid/Contacts
Oct 13 10:10:25 <mrmoku> /org/shr/phoneuid/Dialer
Oct 13 10:10:26 <spaetz> pasted quicker than I read :)
Oct 13 10:10:27 <mrmoku> /org/shr/phoneuid/Dialogs
Oct 13 10:10:30 <mrmoku> /org/shr/phoneuid/Messages
Oct 13 10:10:32 <mrmoku> :)
Oct 13 10:10:57 <spaetz> :)) looks good
Oct 13 10:11:09 <Heinervdm> NOTE: Running task 8416 of 8423 (ID: 20, /home/thomas/SHR/SHR/shr-oemerge/openembedded/recipes/images/shr-image.bb, do_package_update_index_ipk)
Oct 13 10:11:20 <Heinervdm> so shr-image went fine
Oct 13 10:11:58 <BillK> build keeps failing on vala-native: "execvp: valac: Permission denied"
Oct 13 10:12:03 <BillK> any hints????
Oct 13 10:12:19 <mrmoku> wrong file mode for valac?
Oct 13 10:12:26 <spaetz> BillK: is it picking up any locally isntalled vala compiler probably?
Oct 13 10:13:00 <BillK> should be nothing else except the shr build environment - started failing on this a couple
Oct 13 10:13:13 <BillK> of weeks ago, but Ive been away and just got back to it
Oct 13 10:13:30 <spaetz> lots of stuff in transition right now, billk
Oct 13 10:13:51 <Heinervdm> BillK: what vala version?
Oct 13 10:15:28 <BillK> Heinervdm: vala-native_0.7.7.bb
Oct 13 10:15:49 <Heinervdm> BillK: current shr/import?
Oct 13 10:15:58 <BillK> spaetz: ok, will probably have to leave it for now then
Oct 13 10:16:16 <BillK> Heinervdm: yes, at least thats what make update says :)
Oct 13 10:16:29 <playya_> BillK, do you compile on a different partition?
Oct 13 10:16:37 <Heinervdm> BillK: for me it builds...
Oct 13 10:16:43 <playya_> which uses umask or noexec?
Oct 13 10:17:24 <BillK> playya_: no, but compiling as a user not root but thats never made a diff bfore
Oct 13 10:17:45 <BillK> Heinervdm: might have to rm -rf tmp and start afresh :(
Oct 13 10:18:11 <playya_> wait
Oct 13 10:18:13 <Heinervdm> BillK: yes that helps probably :) i'm doing it periodicaly
Oct 13 10:18:34 <Heinervdm> BillK: i'm compiling as user too
Oct 13 10:18:43 <spaetz> compiling as user is fine, yep
Oct 13 10:18:57 <BillK> oh well, see you in a few days when done ...
Oct 13 10:18:59 <spaetz> Heinervdm: although it does mean refetching all the stuff from unreliable sources :)
Oct 13 10:19:00 <BillK> tkx
Oct 13 10:19:18 <playya_> BillK, could you run tmp/staging/*/usr/bin/valac
Oct 13 10:19:33 <spaetz> yay, my 10" ebook reader is shipping today :). New Toy...
Oct 13 10:19:37 <Heinervdm> spaetz: deleting downloads is a bad idea ;)
Oct 13 10:19:38 <playya_> s/tmp/ls -l tmp/
Oct 13 10:19:39 <apt> playya_ meant: BillK, could you run ls -l tmp/staging/*/usr/bin/valac
Oct 13 10:20:33 <BillK> playya_: no valac - maybe something has built out of order - what supplies valac?
Oct 13 10:21:08 <playya_> try bitbake-c rebuild vala-native
Oct 13 10:21:19 <playya_> a space in front of -c
Oct 13 10:22:55 * spaetz discovers mickey|office's reply to some openmoko announcement that he hasn't seen.
Oct 13 10:23:02 <spaetz> so is plan B public now?
Oct 13 10:23:08 * spaetz checks
Oct 13 10:23:16 * mrmoku picks up son from the kindergarten... bbiab
Oct 13 10:23:20 <BillK> playya_: have done a clean a few times and build vala-native with no change
Oct 13 10:23:37 <BillK> playya_: rebuild wont do any different will it?
Oct 13 10:23:42 <playya_> with no chance?
Oct 13 10:23:54 <playya_> can you paste the vala recipe?
Oct 13 10:23:59 <BillK> arg, change :)
Oct 13 10:24:08 <spaetz> BillK: vala-native relies on vala to compile, right
Oct 13 10:24:23 <spaetz> so maybe rebuilding vala before rebuilding vala-native will help?
Oct 13 10:25:13 <Heinervdm> spaetz: i think it's the other way arount ;) vala depends on vala-native, vala-native is compiled first
Oct 13 10:25:55 <playya_> when did you update OE last time?
Oct 13 10:26:00 <BillK> playa_: http://pastebin.com/m3dd6f528
Oct 13 10:26:11 <playya_> BillK, maybe you still have my faulty recipe
Oct 13 10:26:20 <BillK> s/playa_/playya_/
Oct 13 10:26:20 <apt> BillK meant: playya_: http://pastebin.com/m3dd6f528
Oct 13 10:26:33 <playya_> yes. that's the old one
Oct 13 10:26:41 <playya_> update your recipes
Oct 13 10:26:51 <BillK> playya_: before each build - last one an hour ago
Oct 13 10:27:01 <playya_> which branch?
Oct 13 10:27:49 <spaetz> mickey|office: you did notice that you mail to announce@openmoko.org?
Oct 13 10:28:29 <playya_> BillK, do you use the shr makefile?
Oct 13 10:28:51 <mickey|office> spaetz: the wiki reader? sure
Oct 13 10:29:02 <BillK> shr-import, maybe not ...
Oct 13 10:29:04 <BillK> From git://git.openembedded.net/openembedded 94ac299..116c638  shr/merge  -> origin/shr/merge
Oct 13 10:29:49 <Heinervdm> ähm who changed makefile to shr/merge?
Oct 13 10:30:30 <playya_> shr/import did not apply my patch
Oct 13 10:30:48 <playya_> here is the update one by JaMa using checksums: http://patchwork.dev.bearstech.com/patch/261/
Oct 13 10:31:51 <BillK> playya_: is it the repo thats wrong, or my system?
Oct 13 10:31:58 <playya_> repo
Oct 13 10:32:23 <BillK> ok, I goota go eat, back in 30mins to see whats changed, tkx all
Oct 13 10:32:24 <playya_> that's actually my fault, because i patch the vala files
Oct 13 10:32:25 <Heinervdm> BillK: i think you've missread the output, i'm sure you're on shr/import not on shr/merge
Oct 13 10:32:46 <JaMa> playya_: your's didn't apply after http://patchwork.dev.bearstech.com/patch/251/, so I updated it and added checksum
Oct 13 10:33:11 <BillK> Heinervdm: I was sure I was on shr-import, but I just kicked ogg a make update and cut&pasted those lines
Oct 13 10:33:20 <BillK> s/ogg/off/
Oct 13 10:33:20 <apt> BillK meant: Heinervdm: I was sure I was on shr-import, but I just kicked off a make update and cut&pasted those lines
Oct 13 10:33:20 <playya_> i wrote this patch on top of HEAD, but shr/import
Oct 13 10:34:30 <JaMa> playya_: without that patch 251 it applied ok on top of shr/import..
Oct 13 10:35:01 <JaMa> playya_: then 251 was pushed and changed later removed vala_0.7.7.bb
Oct 13 10:35:16 <JaMa> playya_: thats why it didn't apply cleanly later
Oct 13 10:35:38 <playya_> yes. the problem with vala_0.7.7 is that you need an installed vala
Oct 13 10:35:49 <BillK> ahh, further down it says shr-merge and Already on shr-import - I'm officially confused :) - http://pastebin.com/d2cc6a041
Oct 13 10:36:53 <JaMa> BillK: its just because git pull shows all updated branches i guess.. so you're still on shr/import
Oct 13 10:38:03 <blindcoder> hey guys, short question: why are the *.h files of a library missing during bitbake -i ?
Oct 13 10:38:40 <blindcoder> the library is built, the packages are there
Oct 13 10:39:19 <blindcoder> find shr-unstable/ -name libetpan.h finds the file at tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libetpan-0.58-r1/image/usr/include/libetpan.h
Oct 13 10:39:46 <mickey|office> spaetz: finally we can talk about it
Oct 13 10:40:00 <mickey|office> not that many of this particular croud would want to buy it...
Oct 13 10:40:21 <playya_> JaMa, this patch should apply on top of mine: http://pastebin.com/f2552ff63
Oct 13 10:45:51 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r0faabe776bbc 10/mickeyterm/mickeyterm: mickeyterm: try to fail gracefully when we can't read anymore
Oct 13 10:53:48 <JaMa> playya_: its not enough sorry, see diff between 255 and 261 in patchwork..
Oct 13 10:59:21 <blindcoder> anyone?
Oct 13 11:04:26 <JaMa> now 3 patches for vala in patchwork :) what a mess! :)
Oct 13 11:05:35 <Heinervdm> JaMa: shr/merge is my playground :P
Oct 13 11:10:19 <blindcoder> okay, guess i'll just compile on the freerunner then if this crap doesn't work
Oct 13 11:10:23 <blindcoder> /home/blindcoder/SHR/shr-unstable/tmp/cross/armv4t/lib/gcc/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/4.1.2/../../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: warning: libstdc++.so.6, needed by /home/blindcoder/SHR/shr-unstable/tmp/staging/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libfltk.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
Oct 13 11:10:31 <blindcoder> fscking piece of sh*t
Oct 13 11:11:31 <blindcoder> anyone seen this before?
Oct 13 11:11:32 <Heinervdm> blindcoder: add a -lstc++ to CFLAGS
Oct 13 11:11:46 <Heinervdm> -lstdc++
Oct 13 11:11:57 <Heinervdm> or was it without ++
Oct 13 11:12:03 <Heinervdm> don't know :)
Oct 13 11:12:27 <blindcoder> Heinervdm: isn't the problem that it can't _find_ that library in the first place?
Oct 13 11:12:35 <JaMa> blindcoder: /me today :)
Oct 13 11:12:36 <blindcoder> or am I reading that message wrong?
Oct 13 11:12:50 <JaMa> blindcoder: its in gcc package
Oct 13 11:13:00 <blindcoder> \o/ works with -lstdc++
Oct 13 11:13:02 <Heinervdm> blindcoder: i think i solved it by adding a flag
Oct 13 11:13:14 <JaMa> Heinervdm: i guess thats already in CFLAGS.. but linker cannot find it..
Oct 13 11:14:33 <Heinervdm> hmm, i did CC += "-lstdc++" for midori
Oct 13 11:15:01 <Heinervdm> i think gcc is installed, it would be strange if now
Oct 13 11:15:03 <Heinervdm> not
Oct 13 11:15:03 <lindi-> Heinervdm: huh, CC is not meant to contain flags?
Oct 13 11:15:19 <Heinervdm> lindi-: i know :) it's not there anymore :)
Oct 13 11:15:28 <blindcoder> finally got a fltkmail package :-)
Oct 13 11:15:36 <Heinervdm> it was a workaround
Oct 13 11:15:46 <Heinervdm> blindcoder: what did you do?
Oct 13 11:15:57 <blindcoder> Heinervdm: added -lstdc++ into the compiler call
Oct 13 11:16:09 <Heinervdm> :D
Oct 13 11:16:19 <blindcoder> Heinervdm: even though I find it strange that it needs to be there, but it works
Oct 13 11:16:41 <Heinervdm> blindcoder: it's not the right way, but it works somehow
Oct 13 11:16:44 <blindcoder> now I jus need to write a config file for fltkmail instead of hardcoding stuff
Oct 13 11:17:16 <blindcoder> still, what is the right way of packaging libraries?
Oct 13 11:17:41 <blindcoder> I found 'include binconfig' and 'install -m libetpan-config ${STAGING_DIR}/usr/bin' but not sure if that's 'right'
Oct 13 11:18:08 <blindcoder> also, autotools_stage_all
Oct 13 11:18:42 <Heinervdm> i usally user autotools_stage_all
Oct 13 11:19:22 <blindcoder> Heinervdm: yes, bit the libetpan-config is not installed into staging by that
Oct 13 11:19:58 <Heinervdm> i think, autotools_stage_all stages all files from -dev package, but i'm not sure
Oct 13 11:20:47 <Heinervdm> so add the file to -dev and try :)
Oct 13 11:22:07 <blindcoder> Heinervdm: that's FILES_libetpan-dev += "libetpan-config" right?
Oct 13 11:23:55 <Heinervdm> blindcoder: usally it's the path that the file is installed to, /usr/bin/libetpan-config or so
Oct 13 11:24:17 <blindcoder> Heinervdm: okay, I'll check
Oct 13 11:24:43 <Heinervdm> blindcoder: perhaps you have to install to file first, it looks like it's from recipe dir and not from src package
Oct 13 11:26:12 <spaetz> ~logs
Oct 13 11:26:13 <apt> All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Oct 13 11:36:02 <Heinervdm> not good... I got this in do_rootfs.log: http://shr.pastebin.com/d467c3cc8
Oct 13 11:37:00 <mickey|office> eeks, multiple packages providing the same file
Oct 13 11:37:12 <mickey|office> w/ more than one provider being installed
Oct 13 11:39:39 <Heinervdm> e-wm recipe in org.oe.dev and shr/import are very different
Oct 13 12:02:46 <baruch> mickey|office, did you see the patches I sent to smartphones-userland? two gps patches are pending
Oct 13 12:04:01 <mickey|office> baruch: yes, sorry for the delay, i will process them asap
Oct 13 12:04:10 * mickey|office round robin between different things
Oct 13 12:04:31 <baruch> no problem, just wanted to make sure you've seen them
Oct 13 12:04:53 <baruch> I'm in no hurry, mrmoku|away isn't releasing a new shr-unstable anyway so I have nothing to upgrade
Oct 13 12:05:05 <soltys> ;)
Oct 13 12:12:46 <DocScrutinizer> spaetz: also
Oct 13 12:12:51 <DocScrutinizer> !logs
Oct 13 12:12:51 <cdbot2> Channel logs for #openmoko-cdevel are archived at:
Oct 13 12:12:53 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko-cdevel
Oct 13 12:12:54 <cdbot2> Live-logs are available at
Oct 13 12:12:55 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko-cdevel.livelog
Oct 13 12:12:57 <cdbot2> See ?? help-logs for usage instructions
Oct 13 12:15:34 <mrmoku> mickey|office: btw... do you remember the 'fsousaged signal to early' problem?
Oct 13 12:16:17 <spaetz> DocScrutinizer: thanks. cdbot should also know about the nslug logs BTW :-)
Oct 13 12:17:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> spaetz: cdbot knows about own logs only
Oct 13 12:18:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> spaetz: apt knows about nslu
Oct 13 12:18:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~log
Oct 13 12:18:14 <apt> i heard log is http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/ for #openmoko-cdevel only. Maybe you meant "~logs" ?
Oct 13 12:18:24 <mickey|office> mrmoku: somewhat, ya
Oct 13 12:19:25 <mrmoku> mickey|office: just want to be sure it is somewhere in your round robin list :P
Oct 13 12:19:34 <mickey|office> mrmoku: do you have a testcase?
Oct 13 12:19:43 <mickey|office> (please don't say SHR)
Oct 13 12:19:57 <mickey|office> something smaller would be helpful, preferably a selfcontained example
Oct 13 12:20:01 <mrmoku> hmm... will see if I can come up with a testcase
Oct 13 12:20:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> mickeyl: iirc that's an issue about clearing the wording in fso-specs very first instance
Oct 13 12:20:23 <DocScrutinizer-8> if I got the topic right
Oct 13 12:20:35 <mrmoku> yes, but I still beg to differ ;)
Oct 13 12:20:47 <mrmoku> the wording is fine for me... just the signal comes too early :)
Oct 13 12:21:06 <Weiss> does "mobiphil" live anywhere on IRC?
Oct 13 12:22:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> mrmoku: yes, I know you feel the specs are clear for you. I doubt they should be meant/read the way you do read them though
Oct 13 12:22:57 <mickey|office> DocScrutinizer-8: got any patches?
Oct 13 12:23:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> mickeyl: I suggest a discussion to get a clear idea of the resource allocation semantics
Oct 13 12:24:48 <mickey|office> hmm, a whole discussion
Oct 13 12:24:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> I could try to write a new spec for these few specs, but I doubt that's the best way to accomplish/tackle that
Oct 13 12:24:53 <mickey|office> i thought it was just unclear wording
Oct 13 12:25:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, the unclear wording causes different notions about the semantics between mrmoku and me it seems
Oct 13 12:26:50 <DocScrutinizer-8> if I'm right we also have a flaky implementation that needs a fix, I guess
Oct 13 12:27:32 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, about frameworkd not loading  correctly GSM, thus ophonekid not showing PIN GUI: http://pastebin.ca/1617686
Oct 13 12:27:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> if mrmoku is right then the specs are just not very clear
Oct 13 12:29:22 <Sharwin_F> got that. Then restarted frameworkd and didn't get the error strings about GSM and GPS and got GUI to insert PIN
Oct 13 12:29:51 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F: looks like a problem with fsousaged on boot?
Oct 13 12:30:09 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, do you want whole log?
Oct 13 12:30:55 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F: well.. paste it... not that I'm good at reading frameworkd logs... but still :)
Oct 13 12:31:16 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F: maybe ophonekitd.log as well
Oct 13 12:35:19 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, here you have both: http://espeweb.no-ip.com/misc/openmoko/logs/
Oct 13 12:36:01 <Sharwin_F> frameworkd log shows bad behavior first and then, after restarting it, good behavior
Oct 13 12:39:14 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|office: basically I read ""Once RequestResource returned without an error, a client may access the resource"" and I think we don't need any call to ListResources ( ) at all, for an app that actually wants to *allocate* a resource. To me ListResources ( ) is for mere info-purposes like systray icon showing if any *other* app allocated a resource or not (i.e. ListResources ( ) is for apps that do *not* allocate resources, while 
Oct 13 12:39:15 <DocScrutinizer> RequestResource ( s ) is for apps that want to allocate resources)
Oct 13 12:40:29 <DocScrutinizer> all this from memory, as I didn't write down the particular details when we discussed it here (me dumbass)
Oct 13 12:41:03 <mickey|office> yeah
Oct 13 12:41:08 <mickey|office> isn't that what is in the specs?
Oct 13 12:41:46 <DocScrutinizer> I think yes
Oct 13 12:42:05 <JaMa> mrmoku: new cookies in patchwork
Oct 13 12:42:13 <DocScrutinizer> But obviously that's not what we do with GSM resource if I got it right
Oct 13 12:42:48 <mrmoku> mhhh cookies :D
Oct 13 12:43:28 <JaMa> mrmoku: please also eat 161 in shr/import :)
Oct 13 12:45:22 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F: is that on every boot?
Oct 13 12:45:36 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, nop
Oct 13 12:46:16 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, remember I told you about happening the same when enabling composite in Xorg.conf? maybe that was irrelevant (I have it disabled sine then)
Oct 13 12:46:55 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer-8: well... we could as well just RequestResource GSM and check for the error (if GSM is not available)
Oct 13 12:47:03 <mrmoku> that's not my problem though
Oct 13 12:47:37 <mrmoku> Sharwin_F: hmm... then it might be some nasty startup timing problem... ?
Oct 13 12:47:46 <Sharwin_F> it seems so
Oct 13 12:47:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> mrmoku: I admit I might have forgotten what's the exact problem then
Oct 13 12:49:54 <Weiss> JaMa: do you need me to do anything to make your libdrm merge easier? (i.e. would it help if I did the same to my repository?)
Oct 13 12:50:03 <mrmoku> JaMa: you sent them twice?
Oct 13 12:50:08 <DocScrutinizer-8> I though request-resource () returns too early while GSM resource isn't actually usable yet
Oct 13 12:50:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> or sth like that
Oct 13 12:50:58 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer-8: after requesting a resource frameworkd sends a signal that the resource is up and ready for use... and that signal comes too early
Oct 13 12:51:24 <JaMa> mrmoku: for shr/merge and shr/import
Oct 13 12:51:34 <JaMa> mrmoku: its slightly different
Oct 13 12:51:37 <mrmoku> ahh...
Oct 13 12:51:39 * mrmoku just blind
Oct 13 12:51:44 <mrmoku> did not see the shr/merge prefix
Oct 13 12:51:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> mrmoku: according to above quote it isn't needed to wait for such signal
Oct 13 12:52:49 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, now just restarted and everything went ok
Oct 13 12:52:50 <mrmoku> whatever... I prefer the signal, because I can handle that even later, when GSM get's unavailable for some reason
Oct 13 12:52:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> mrmoku: I guess the definition of "may access" is different for you than for me
Oct 13 12:53:20 <DocScrutinizer-8> aah, ok. that's perfectly allowable
Oct 13 12:53:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> even mandatory per spec
Oct 13 12:54:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> though the specs seem to not guarantee the signal comes first time after resource allocation
Oct 13 12:55:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> anyway if it comes too early, that's bad for sure
Oct 13 12:56:30 <JaMa> Weiss: would be nice if you rebase your repository
Oct 13 12:56:55 <mrmoku> JaMa: cookies consumed :)
Oct 13 12:57:02 <JaMa> Weiss: I didn't rebase actually, because upstream probably moved from one repo to another as master or something and there was lots of conflicts
Oct 13 12:57:19 <JaMa> Weiss: I checkouted clean master
Oct 13 12:57:57 <JaMa> and then applied stuff from your branch with first 2 modified (which I could send you now
Oct 13 12:58:43 <JaMa> Weiss: actually you can do the same with this patch from OE http://cgit.openembedded.net/cgit.cgi/openembedded/diff/recipes/dri/files/libdrm-glamo.am.patch?h=shr/merge&id=92bd9981d05dbf8074a62b5569baf1f10f626c30
Oct 13 12:59:23 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: which signal is it exactly that you are checking?
Oct 13 12:59:38 <JaMa> mrmoku: thanks, what about http://patchwork.dev.bearstech.com/patch/261/ ? 
Oct 13 12:59:53 <JaMa> mrmoku: you don't like it, or it couldn't apply?
Oct 13 13:00:40 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: is it ResourceAvailable ( sb ) ?
Oct 13 13:01:10 <mrmoku> JaMa: forgot... doing too many things in parallel :P
Oct 13 13:01:11 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer: no
Oct 13 13:01:39 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer: ResourceChanged
Oct 13 13:01:46 <JaMa> ok
Oct 13 13:03:00 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, ok. Now I see. I always thought a OK return from RequestResource should imply a resource state of "enabled"
Oct 13 13:03:35 <spaetz> DocScrutinizer: which would be logical
Oct 13 13:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> as my notion about ""Once RequestResource returned without an error, a client may access the resource"" is the source has to be enabled for the app to "access" it
Oct 13 13:04:17 <mrmoku> JaMa: the gtkrc one?
Oct 13 13:05:21 <DocScrutinizer> well, if it isn't then the specs have to clearly state that
Oct 13 13:05:29 <mrmoku> JaMa: that might explain why gtk themes are broken now?
Oct 13 13:06:42 <DocScrutinizer> (the case where mrmoku is right, and we have a ambiguous wording in specs)
Oct 13 13:07:28 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise the specs are not *that* much unclear, but we have a flaw in implementation, as obviously the gsm resource isn't enabled on return OK of request-resource()
Oct 13 13:08:22 <DocScrutinizer> (which would be case b) of above then :-D ) 
Oct 13 13:09:44 <mickey|office> correct. if the signal arrives and a call that's done immediately afterwards is erroring out due to "ResourceNotEnabled", then it's clearly a bug in code
Oct 13 13:09:51 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: do you agree, or did I mess it up once again ? :-)
Oct 13 13:10:15 <mrmoku> JaMa: does not apply
Oct 13 13:10:42 <mrmoku> mickey|office: that's what is happening... but I will try to give you a nice testcase
Oct 13 13:11:42 <mickey|office> thanks, much appreciated
Oct 13 13:14:50 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|office: seems it's up to you to decide if the semantics are like "after RequestResource() returns with OK, a resource is assumed to be in state 'enabled'", or if the specs need a clear word about apps mandatory have to wait for a ResourceChanged ( sba{sv} ) 'enabled' signal after RequestResource() succeeds
Oct 13 13:16:19 <mickey|office> DocScrutinizer: right. actually, i need to make up my mind about that. I'm leaning towards the first interpretation though
Oct 13 13:16:40 <DocScrutinizer> heh :-). Me too
Oct 13 13:17:14 <DocScrutinizer> even if that means we seem to have a bug in GSM resource then
Oct 13 13:18:19 <JaMa> mrmoku: no vala version
Oct 13 13:18:50 <mrmoku> [14:43]          JaMa | mrmoku: please also eat 161 in shr/import :)
Oct 13 13:18:56 <mrmoku> [14:59]          JaMa | mrmoku: thanks, what about http://patchwork.dev.bearstech.com/patch/261/ ?
Oct 13 13:19:01 <DocScrutinizer> though that bug might be "fixed" with a botch (prone to races), to send a ResourceChanged 'disabled' same moment or even before(?) RequestResource(GSM) returns with OK
Oct 13 13:19:02 <mrmoku> JaMa: that confused me :P
Oct 13 13:19:08 <JaMa> sorry.. later I corrected number :/
Oct 13 13:19:11 <mrmoku> :)
Oct 13 13:19:18 <JaMa> yes that one :)
Oct 13 13:20:05 <mrmoku> JaMa: applied
Oct 13 13:21:19 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|office: also specs seem not to mention a resource might get disabled at all during any app holds an allocation to that resource. So that seems to be a little odd
Oct 13 13:22:58 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r89896d53c999 10/fsogsmd/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.Register()
Oct 13 13:24:16 <playya_> there's no Resource.enabled signal so the resources should only return Ok if they are really ready.
Oct 13 13:24:20 <JaMa> ahh I sent wrong patch.. another one to fix it again :/
Oct 13 13:25:15 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: specs do not mention an app has to monitor the ResourceChanged signal. It's mandatory to watch the ResourceAvailable signal
Oct 13 13:27:54 <DocScrutinizer> AIUI ResourceChanged is sibling of ListResources (and thus for info-services only), same way as ResourceAvailable is sibling of RequestResource (for apps actually allocating a resource)
Oct 13 13:30:02 <DocScrutinizer> Alas the specs are not very verbose about that (or about the concept / rationale behind the mere calls, at least for the first two)
Oct 13 13:30:51 <mrmoku> ResourceChanged ( sba{sv} )
Oct 13 13:30:52 <mrmoku> Description: Sent whenever a resource status changes. 
Oct 13 13:31:17 <mrmoku> thus it will tell me if GSM is disabled
Oct 13 13:31:27 <mrmoku> ResourceAvailable ( sb )
Oct 13 13:31:27 <mrmoku> Description: Sent whenever a resource is added or removed.
Oct 13 13:31:45 <mrmoku> which will tell me if there _exists_ such a resource (and thus can be requested)
Oct 13 13:32:35 <DocScrutinizer> bzz, wrong
Oct 13 13:32:55 <DocScrutinizer> "" Some resources may enforce this through access control, some may not — to handle that case, it is recommended that clients listen for ResourceAvailable announcements throughout their life cycle. ""
Oct 13 13:34:55 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: gsm must not get disabled as long as there's any "handle" open on it. (well, any resource, for that purpose)
Oct 13 13:35:24 <mrmoku> not so...
Oct 13 13:36:02 <DocScrutinizer> mickey|office: ^^^ you see? Specs need a clear wording
Oct 13 13:36:20 <DocScrutinizer> we still can't agree on exact meaning of the specs
Oct 13 13:39:24 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: great we got it to the point where our notions differ. :-)
Oct 13 13:39:41 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku: I think the rest is up to mickey|office 
Oct 13 13:40:17 <DocScrutinizer> cya fellas
Oct 13 13:40:54 <mickey|office> l8er DocScrutinizer 
Oct 13 13:53:30 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r0d111530c887 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcommands.vala atunsolicited.vala commandqueue.vala): fsogsmd: add +CREG command
Oct 13 13:56:00 <DocScrutinizer> for a bye greeting, let me put a question: which is the FSO call supposed to actually enable/disable a resource? (You can guess my answer: RequestResource)
Oct 13 14:16:44 <playya> github is down :( but i don't even want to build shr-config
Oct 13 14:18:16 <spaetz> someone should change the shr-cconfig autorev to a fixed rev
Oct 13 14:18:36 <playya> yes. did you fix the bugs in shr-config?
Oct 13 14:18:51 <spaetz> no need to always connect. not sure if  it even builds with current vala
Oct 13 14:19:18 <spaetz> no, haven't looked at it for a few months...
Oct 13 14:19:34 <playya> nope. but you made some mistakes with args
Oct 13 14:20:03 <spaetz> i did?
Oct 13 14:20:24 <playya> yes. using args as an array size
Oct 13 14:20:26 <spaetz> patches welcome. ;-)
Oct 13 14:21:12 <playya> isn't shr-config replaced by shr-settings?
Oct 13 14:21:20 <spaetz> i really wished there'd be a nice vala book
Oct 13 14:21:45 <playya> poke mickeyl to finish his book
Oct 13 14:22:03 <spaetz> it was coded in parallel, but shr-settings continued to evolve
Oct 13 14:22:10 <playya> or we start a new project
Oct 13 14:22:47 <spaetz> soltys, yes, i guess we can remove shr-config for now
Oct 13 14:22:58 <morphis> heyho
Oct 13 14:23:06 * morphis is now a happy owner of a palm pre !!!
Oct 13 14:23:30 <spaetz> i do like shr-config as it starts up quicker than loading a new python
Oct 13 14:24:03 <spaetz> morphis, traitor ;-). FR forevva
Oct 13 14:25:55 <playya> no we cannot remove it. i already send a patch to pin the revision
Oct 13 14:26:16 <playya> s/send/sent/
Oct 13 14:26:16 <apt> playya meant: no we cannot remove it. i already sent a patch to pin the revision
Oct 13 14:26:48 <playya> hmm. same for shr-today
Oct 13 14:36:55 <Gnutoo> hi, why the touchscreen filters(ts_filter_chain) uses the platform_device  struct?
Oct 13 14:37:06 <Gnutoo> what if I've no platform_device  struct in my touchscreen driver
Oct 13 14:41:34 <mickey|office> (book) good point, i really need to work on that
Oct 13 14:41:37 <mickey|office> bbl, relocating
Oct 13 15:13:26 <Heinervdm> github.com is back
Oct 13 15:46:41 <pieterc> I'm searching a channel with changbot to do this:
Oct 13 15:46:46 <pieterc> s/changbot/changebot
Oct 13 15:47:11 <Heinervdm> you forgot the / at the end
Oct 13 15:47:17 <pieterc> oh, really?
Oct 13 15:47:27 <Heinervdm> really
Oct 13 15:47:29 <pieterc> s/really?/yes!/
Oct 13 15:47:30 <apt> pieterc meant: oh, yes!
Oct 13 15:47:37 <pieterc> right!
Oct 13 15:47:38 <pieterc> thanks :p
Oct 13 15:52:58 <TAsn> mrmoku, here?
Oct 13 15:55:37 <TAsn> Heinervdm, btw, any ideas on how to address the resuming from suspend issue with xorg?
Oct 13 15:56:08 <Heinervdm> TAsn: PaulFertser told me that it's faster on debian
Oct 13 15:56:24 <TAsn> so you suspect it's either different compilation flags
Oct 13 15:56:27 <Heinervdm> so it has to be possible to speed it up
Oct 13 15:56:30 <TAsn> or different configuration
Oct 13 15:56:36 <TAsn> or something in between?
Oct 13 15:56:37 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 15:56:43 <Heinervdm> something :)
Oct 13 15:56:51 <Heinervdm> Weiss, larsc: ping
Oct 13 15:56:58 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 15:57:06 <Weiss> Heinervdm: pong
Oct 13 15:57:31 <Heinervdm> Weiss: resume needs ~6 seconds on SHR
Oct 13 15:57:39 <Heinervdm> that's too long :)
Oct 13 15:58:13 <Heinervdm> it seems that resume on debian is faster, do you have an idea how to speed it up?
Oct 13 15:58:30 <TAsn> possibly even make it faster than debian *wink*
Oct 13 15:58:30 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 15:58:45 <TAsn> lindi-, how much does it take you to resume from a suspend?
Oct 13 15:59:32 <mrmoku> TAsn: kind of (here)
Oct 13 15:59:38 <TAsn> mrmoku, cool :)
Oct 13 15:59:48 <TAsn> what's the dbus path for the ui daemon?
Oct 13 16:00:02 <mrmoku> org.shr.phoneuid
Oct 13 16:00:13 <Weiss> hmm.. I suspect the slowness isn't due to graphics system..
Oct 13 16:00:24 <Weiss> resume on SHR for me takes about 1.5 sec..
Oct 13 16:00:27 <TAsn> mrmoku, hehe weird :) but ok. :)
Oct 13 16:00:39 <TAsn> Weiss, even that is a lot.
Oct 13 16:00:53 <Heinervdm> Weiss: that is a lot faster then for me...
Oct 13 16:00:54 * TAsn is checking here
Oct 13 16:01:01 <larsc> resume on a .31 kernel is like almost instant :) ...just wanted to mention it
Oct 13 16:01:08 <TAsn> larsc, with xorg?
Oct 13 16:01:16 <TAsn> here it's also ~6 seconds
Oct 13 16:01:35 <TAsn> mrmoku, thanks a lot. :)
Oct 13 16:01:36 <Heinervdm> Weiss: what xorg package are you using?
Oct 13 16:01:49 <Heinervdm> larsc: and what xorg are u using?
Oct 13 16:01:52 <TAsn> mrmoku, and the specs are in shr-specs?
Oct 13 16:02:08 <larsc> xorg with non kms glamo driver
Oct 13 16:02:16 <Heinervdm> 1.7.0?
Oct 13 16:02:26 <larsc> 1.5.c
Oct 13 16:02:28 <larsc> 1.5.x
Oct 13 16:02:50 <Heinervdm> with tslib or evdev?
Oct 13 16:02:54 <larsc> tslib
Oct 13 16:03:09 <Heinervdm> ok, now Weiss :)
Oct 13 16:03:15 <Weiss> Xorg+KMS here
Oct 13 16:03:17 <mrmoku> TAsn: yup
Oct 13 16:03:29 * mrmoku checks if he comitted everything...
Oct 13 16:03:30 <Heinervdm> SHR uses 1.7.0 non-kms glamo and evdev
Oct 13 16:03:34 <Weiss> KMS makes a very slight difference because the framebuffer memory isn't zeroed, but it's small
Oct 13 16:03:42 <Weiss> (and that's "cheating")
Oct 13 16:03:53 <Heinervdm> Weiss: 1.7.0 or an older version too?
Oct 13 16:03:56 <TAsn> mrmoku, thanks a lot ;)
Oct 13 16:04:27 <TAsn> larsc, Weiss, who compiled your versions?
Oct 13 16:04:43 <larsc> I compiled mine
Oct 13 16:04:53 <TAsn> larsc, with what compilation options?
Oct 13 16:05:10 <TAsn> (I'm not familiar with Xorg's compilation options yet, just asking to know)
Oct 13 16:05:11 <Weiss> pre-1.7.0 Git version here.. I can dig out the exact revision if it helps, compiled by me
Oct 13 16:05:24 <TAsn> Weiss, same question to you too ^
Oct 13 16:05:34 <CIA-26> SHR: 03mok 07shr-specs * r9301002af520 10/ (63 files in 7 dirs): move stuff around :)
Oct 13 16:06:25 <Heinervdm> Weiss: ok, that should be similar to 1.7.0, how do you compile it? bitbake?
Oct 13 16:06:44 <TAsn> mrmoku, :)
Oct 13 16:06:45 <Weiss> --disable-xephyr --disable-config-hal --disable-xinerama--disable-xephyr --disable-config-hal --disable-xinerama --disable-glx-tls --enable-dri2 --disable-unit-tests
Oct 13 16:06:54 <Weiss> yep, OpenEmbedded here (all details on www.bitwiz.org.uk)
Oct 13 16:06:59 <TAsn> Heinervdm, any idea how we compile our?
Oct 13 16:07:03 <larsc> TAsn: disabled everthing thats not necessary ;)
Oct 13 16:07:10 <TAsn> larsc, that's a bit general :)
Oct 13 16:07:26 <larsc> i know
Oct 13 16:07:33 <TAsn> Weiss, pshhh, you disabled a couple of things twice ;]
Oct 13 16:07:46 <Heinervdm> --disable-xephyr --disable-config-hal --disable-xinerama --disable-kdrive --disable-xephyr --disable-xsdl --disable-xfake --disable-xfbdev --disable-dmx --disable-glx-tls --enable-dri2 --disable-unit-tests
Oct 13 16:08:03 <Weiss> TAsn: ah..alternatively I clicked paste twice by accident..
Oct 13 16:08:26 <larsc> TAsn: https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/packages/Xorg/xorg/xserver/xorg-server/Makefile
Oct 13 16:08:38 <TAsn> Weiss, jk ;)
Oct 13 16:08:43 <TAsn> larsc, arrigato.
Oct 13 16:08:52 <TAsn> Heinervdm, that's what we use?
Oct 13 16:09:00 <Weiss> :)
Oct 13 16:09:03 <Heinervdm> TAsn: yes
Oct 13 16:09:21 <TAsn> Heinervdm, we also disabled xephyr twice :)
Oct 13 16:09:26 <mrmoku> those dbus marshallers are driving me mad :(
Oct 13 16:09:29 <Heinervdm> i know ;)
Oct 13 16:09:35 <TAsn> mrmoku, :)
Oct 13 16:10:06 <TAsn> hm.. it seems that we do it exactly the same as Weiss 
Oct 13 16:10:09 <Heinervdm> Weiss: where can i find your recipe in your blog?
Oct 13 16:10:14 <TAsn> Weiss, kernel version?
Oct 13 16:10:24 <Weiss> Heinervdm: http://www.bitwiz.org.uk/s/dri-for-the-freerunner.html
Oct 13 16:10:29 <TAsn> Heinervdm, Maybe we should give his package a try
Oct 13 16:10:37 <TAsn> maybe it's something else that's slowing us down.
Oct 13 16:10:49 <Weiss> TAsn: 2.6.29-drm_tracking
Oct 13 16:10:56 <Weiss> or even 2.6.29_drm-tracking
Oct 13 16:11:18 <TAsn> Weiss, :)
Oct 13 16:11:20 <TAsn> thanks.
Oct 13 16:11:55 <TAsn> hm.. so it's quite similar to ours. (we use .29-andy-tracking iirc)
Oct 13 16:13:16 <larsc> Weiss: might be a bit short termed, but whats your plan for todays evening?
Oct 13 16:14:24 <Heinervdm> Weiss: does it matters if we have kbproto in depends?
Oct 13 16:15:52 <Heinervdm> oh no it's lbxutil
Oct 13 16:16:33 <Weiss> Heinervdm: mostly I've just bashed these dependencies around until it works. I certainly don't claim to know much about anything other than the DDX and DRI bits..
Oct 13 16:16:49 <Heinervdm> ok
Oct 13 16:16:54 <Weiss> larsc: still at work at the moment, need to have dinner but nothing planned after that
Oct 13 16:17:57 <Heinervdm> Weiss: can you send me your xserver-xorg ipkg?
Oct 13 16:18:46 <Weiss> Heinervdm: the one in http://www.bitwiz.org.uk/openmoko/dri-binaries/ is up to date, I think..
Oct 13 16:19:01 <Weiss> (in any case, it certainly didn't get faster since then)
Oct 13 16:19:13 <Heinervdm> Weiss: then i try your's
Oct 13 16:19:48 <larsc> Weiss: I'll be at the CCC, maybe you want to join me there. talk about glamo stuff, get to know some other geeky people
Oct 13 16:24:02 <Weiss> larsc: oo.. is it a weekly/regular thing, or a one-off?
Oct 13 16:26:12 <TAsn> mrmoku, still here?
Oct 13 16:26:39 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r870b0db103b8 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (5 files): fsogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrievePhonebook() done
Oct 13 16:29:05 <Weiss> larsc: (the CCC meeting that is. I don't know much about it)
Oct 13 16:31:42 <mickeyl> yearly
Oct 13 16:36:33 <mrmoku> TAsn: no
Oct 13 16:36:43 <mrmoku> TAsn: I'm under the shower :P
Oct 13 16:37:03 <mrmoku> bbiab
Oct 13 16:37:31 <DocScrutinizer-8> Weiss: http://events.ccc.de/congress/2009/wiki/index.php/Welcome
Oct 13 16:37:33 <TAsn> mrmoku, WAIT! :)
Oct 13 16:37:50 <TAsn> mrmoku, is the row fix included in master or just in no-async ?
Oct 13 16:38:33 * DocScrutinizer-8 wonders if mrmoku got a water-resistent laptop
Oct 13 16:39:05 * TAsn thinks he bought that weird yellow case for the moko and that's what he's using there.
Oct 13 16:40:17 <Weiss> DocScrutinizer-8, mickeyl: I think larsc is just talking about a smaller meeting in Hamburg (since I've just moved there)
Oct 13 16:40:34 * onen|openBmap is looking at fso palm pre challenge start up
Oct 13 16:40:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> aah, that's the weekly/montly local meeting then probably
Oct 13 16:41:35 <mickeyl> Weiss: ah, sorry then
Oct 13 16:41:50 <Weiss> no problem :)
Oct 13 16:42:03 * Weiss is still trying to figure out his new surroundings
Oct 13 16:43:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> Weiss: nevertheless 26C3 is worth it
Oct 13 16:43:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> hope to meet you there
Oct 13 16:44:35 <Weiss> DocScrutinizer-8: think I'm already booked up for that period :(.. or even double booked (I want to visit friends, but I'm not technically supposed to take time off work yet). But I'll keep it in mind..
Oct 13 16:44:42 <onen|openBmap> mickeyl: hallo. I have already seen some updates on the fso challenge wiki ;-)
Oct 13 16:44:58 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r6c042a2a7223 10/fsogsmd/ (6 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: bump version to 0.1.0.0
Oct 13 16:45:14 <onen|openBmap> mickeyl: I wish you and the other good luck and viel erfolg to make the software work on the palm pre
Oct 13 16:45:16 <mickeyl> onen|openBmap: yeah :)
Oct 13 16:45:20 <mickeyl> onen|openBmap: thanks a lot
Oct 13 16:45:40 <onen|openBmap> mickeyl: I need a new phone for christmas, so I wait and see 
Oct 13 16:46:11 <mickeyl> i hope that we soon got the critical amount of infrastructure done so that the OM community embraces the webos-internals
Oct 13 16:47:04 <onen|openBmap> mickeyl: what do you mean? to "migrate" to the webos-internals community, wiki?
Oct 13 16:47:56 <onen|openBmap> mickeyl: if stefan_schmidt does not work hard enough, just steal his fancy sun glasses, and give them back to him only when his work is done :-P
Oct 13 16:48:14 <mickeyl> no, rather that a) some folks here buy pres, and b) work that is done here does not only get done for a single hardware (FreeRunner)
Oct 13 16:48:25 <stefan_schmidt> onen|openBmap: What let you think I only have one set of fancy sun glasses?
Oct 13 16:48:26 <mickeyl> (stefan) hehe, good plan
Oct 13 16:49:27 <onen|openBmap> stefan_schmidt: ich lache mich tot, very good one! :-D
Oct 13 16:51:29 * stefan_schmidt should buy some more sun glasses just to be sure
Oct 13 16:52:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> stefan_schmidt: get me some as well, if you find particularly cool ones 8-)
Oct 13 16:53:01 <stefan_schmidt> heh
Oct 13 16:54:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> in winter sunglasses are really important, as sun always so low and this ugly glaring white shit on the streets ;-)
Oct 13 16:54:03 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, is there anything I need to know about number validation?
Oct 13 16:54:14 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, i.e if I want to check if a phone number is valid...
Oct 13 16:54:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: that's non-trivial
Oct 13 16:54:53 <Heinervdm> why is it so complicated to install packages with opkg that are also in the feed
Oct 13 16:55:03 <Heinervdm> it's annoying
Oct 13 16:55:15 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, :|
Oct 13 16:55:25 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: wait a minute
Oct 13 16:55:28 <Sharwin_F> mrmoku, could you try building python-lxml from OE (I think it's already there) into the feeds when you have time please? :)
Oct 13 16:55:31 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, a regex? :)
Oct 13 16:55:35 <mrmoku> TAsn: it is in master IIRC
Oct 13 16:55:38 <DocScrutinizer-8> ok, 
Oct 13 16:55:48 <TAsn> mrmoku, yeah, just compiled and checked, thanks ;)
Oct 13 16:55:50 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: wait 10minutes ;-P
Oct 13 16:55:56 <TAsn> mrmoku, btw, the number icon: SOOO COOL :)
Oct 13 16:56:02 <TAsn> mrmoku, but index still doesn't work for me ;|
Oct 13 16:56:09 <TAsn> (in the messages app)
Oct 13 16:56:22 <mrmoku> yep... will take a look when I merged the fixes from master to no-async
Oct 13 16:56:34 <TAsn> mrmoku, btw, I'm cleaning up trac
Oct 13 16:56:37 <TAsn> damn, what a mess. :|
Oct 13 16:56:45 <mrmoku> oohhh.. yeah... good thing :)
Oct 13 16:57:09 <TAsn> btw mrmoku http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/146
Oct 13 16:57:14 <TAsn> take a look at the
Oct 13 16:57:19 <TAsn> NOTICE by TAsn"
Oct 13 16:57:21 <TAsn> section
Oct 13 16:57:24 <TAsn> tell me what you think.
Oct 13 16:57:29 * DocScrutinizer-8 wonders where's the waterdrops in between mrmoku posts ;-P
Oct 13 16:58:04 <mrmoku> TAsn: well... we need something like that for shr-dialer, messages and contacts
Oct 13 16:58:10 <mrmoku> as those are just a dbus call
Oct 13 16:58:44 <TAsn> mrmoku, they are not dbus calls
Oct 13 16:58:46 <TAsn> they are
Oct 13 16:58:50 <TAsn> phonegui_call_initate
Oct 13 16:58:57 <TAsn> and a like functions :)
Oct 13 16:59:05 <TAsn> (already created those)
Oct 13 16:59:19 <mrmoku> I know... and you passed it the wrong id ;)
Oct 13 17:00:05 <mrmoku> TAsn: i was thinking about before... when you start the dialer via dbus
Oct 13 17:00:10 <mrmoku> what do we do if that does not work?
Oct 13 17:00:44 <mrmoku> TAsn: btw... I already did incoming/outgoing phonecalls with the no-async stuff :D
Oct 13 17:00:55 <TAsn> :)))
Oct 13 17:01:04 <TAsn> mrmoku, what do you mean by <mrmoku> TAsn: i was thinking about before... when you start the dialer via dbus
Oct 13 17:01:04 <TAsn> <mrmoku> what do we do if that does not work?
Oct 13 17:01:29 <mrmoku> well... what do we do if for some reason (misconfigured) phoneuid does not work?
Oct 13 17:01:43 <TAsn> cry?
Oct 13 17:01:53 <mrmoku> that in any case... :)
Oct 13 17:01:53 <TAsn> same thing as we'd do if frameworkd wouldn't work
Oct 13 17:01:55 <TAsn> do nothing.
Oct 13 17:02:04 <TAsn> you can't assume the user will break it
Oct 13 17:02:07 <TAsn> and try to fix it
Oct 13 17:02:14 <TAsn> if they break it they should fix it
Oct 13 17:02:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: I think any string consisting of nothing more than 0-9,*,#,+,wW,pP,A,B,C,D should be considered a valid phonenumber
Oct 13 17:02:14 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 17:02:26 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, wow, really?
Oct 13 17:02:36 <Blu3> doing nothing is buggery.  attempt to resolve the problem or tell the user so he can attempt to resolve it
Oct 13 17:02:39 <TAsn> no more strict rules?
Oct 13 17:03:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: not really, as I would miss a few special cases always
Oct 13 17:03:12 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, well, I guess this is good enough ;)
Oct 13 17:03:24 <TAsn> it's just for a bug report we have.
Oct 13 17:03:38 <DocScrutinizer-8> ooh
Oct 13 17:03:39 <TAsn> users want to know about broken numbers
Oct 13 17:03:47 <TAsn> #226
Oct 13 17:03:55 <TAsn> some people don't seem to trust themselves :|
Oct 13 17:04:23 <DocScrutinizer-8> hmm, can you share a full URL to 226 please
Oct 13 17:04:48 <TAsn> http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/146   -146 +226
Oct 13 17:04:49 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 17:04:53 <TAsn> http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/226 ;]
Oct 13 17:06:04 <TAsn> anyhow, will fix it today :)
Oct 13 17:06:07 <TAsn> (later though)
Oct 13 17:06:31 <TAsn> mrmoku, is there a preferred way to mark the field described in 226?
Oct 13 17:06:38 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: this is about sms, no?
Oct 13 17:06:40 <TAsn> (maybe coloring it?)
Oct 13 17:06:42 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, yes.
Oct 13 17:06:50 <TAsn> limiting the numbers you can send sms to.
Oct 13 17:07:02 <TAsn> actually just notifying the user.
Oct 13 17:07:04 <Blu3> re #226, try converting the "asdf" to a number
Oct 13 17:07:36 <TAsn> Blu3, I can see where you are going
Oct 13 17:07:38 <Blu3> so people can enter "1-800-GET-STUFF" and have it correctly translated
Oct 13 17:07:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> with SMS the situation is even worse. You may receive SMS with a alphanum sender "number", like "info.o2"
Oct 13 17:07:56 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, I know
Oct 13 17:08:02 <TAsn> though only on incoming messages.
Oct 13 17:08:18 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: that's the crux
Oct 13 17:08:18 <TAsn> (at least that's what I know)
Oct 13 17:08:27 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, I don't care about incoming
Oct 13 17:08:40 <TAsn> as I'm willing to accept everything and give almost nothing :)
Oct 13 17:09:36 <mrmoku> TAsn: hmm, no idea
Oct 13 17:09:38 <TAsn> (i.e assuming everyone can't handle everything)
Oct 13 17:09:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: seems it's perfectly allowable to answer those sms, which in turn fails as the "number" can't be found by carrier routing
Oct 13 17:10:01 <TAsn> Blu3, there's a small issue with that.
Oct 13 17:10:07 <TAsn> that's damn confusing :)
Oct 13 17:10:14 <TAsn> as numbers can include A
Oct 13 17:10:16 <TAsn> D
Oct 13 17:10:16 <TAsn> and such.
Oct 13 17:10:36 <TAsn> mrmoku, btw
Oct 13 17:10:39 <Blu3> i'm sure there's already some formula for normalizing it
Oct 13 17:10:44 <TAsn> please try to reproduce a bug I found
Oct 13 17:10:47 <TAsn> open shr-contacts
Oct 13 17:10:53 <TAsn> and at the moment you see the contacts
Oct 13 17:10:59 <TAsn> pop open the index
Oct 13 17:11:00 <DocScrutinizer-8> for TEL numbers it's allowable digits (A..D) - at least for DTMF
Oct 13 17:11:06 <TAsn> and try to scroll to the last one or something.
Oct 13 17:11:26 <TAsn> Blu3, no, I meant
Oct 13 17:11:31 <TAsn> 123-DAD
Oct 13 17:11:34 <TAsn> is a legit number
Oct 13 17:11:39 <TAsn> and should NOT be translated
Oct 13 17:11:41 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re894b5c33523 10/fsogpsd/ (23 files in 7 dirs): create project skeleton for fsogpsd
Oct 13 17:12:03 <mrmoku> TAsn: have to go to school now... get to know my son's teacher :P
Oct 13 17:12:13 <TAsn> the phone should actually dial to 123-DAD and *not* to 123-323
Oct 13 17:12:17 <mrmoku> so... bbl
Oct 13 17:12:23 <TAsn> mrmoku|away, ciao. :)
Oct 13 17:12:31 <Blu3> make it locale dependent.  nobody in USA uses A-D
Oct 13 17:12:33 <TAsn> I'm off as well.
Oct 13 17:12:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: exactly. you should translate only lower case alpha to digits
Oct 13 17:12:44 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, that's what I thought
Oct 13 17:12:55 <larsc> Weiss: In case you answered, i didn't got it.
Oct 13 17:12:56 <TAsn> though then entering A..D would be quite annoying
Oct 13 17:13:03 <TAsn> but ok, whatever ;)
Oct 13 17:13:04 <Blu3> the dtmf tones exist technically, but no phones here are capable of it
Oct 13 17:13:05 <TAsn> will do.
Oct 13 17:13:16 <TAsn> Blu3, please add it to the bug report
Oct 13 17:13:27 <TAsn> as I want to remember it when I implement it
Oct 13 17:13:29 <TAsn> cya.
Oct 13 17:13:29 <DocScrutinizer-8> Blu3: that's not true
Oct 13 17:14:47 <Blu3> doc, effectively true.  except for special circumstances; no phones here can do that and on landline trucks those tones are often filtered
Oct 13 17:15:38 <Slyon> dos1: ping
Oct 13 17:16:02 <Blu3> if you asked a typical consumer to hit A on their phone, those that were savvy would hit "1", or they'd get really confused since a lot of cellphones don't have the letters printed on the right keys
Oct 13 17:16:12 <DocScrutinizer-8> Blu3: there's quite a number of system phones that use these special digits
Oct 13 17:16:46 <Blu3> those phone systems are very rare
Oct 13 17:16:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> Blu3: and btw "a" is on 2
Oct 13 17:16:58 <Blu3> yep
Oct 13 17:16:59 <dos1> Blu3: hmm?
Oct 13 17:17:21 <dos1> Blu3: i haven't seen any phone without letters printed on keyboard under digits ;x
Oct 13 17:17:39 <dos1> except some 20 years old analog phones :P
Oct 13 17:18:24 <Blu3> i have.  tons of cellphones have a qwerty keyboard on them, not a "2 abcd" "3 efg" ...
Oct 13 17:18:55 <Blu3> landline phones normally have them printed, but modern cellphones are unlikely to have the letters correctly paired with the numbers
Oct 13 17:19:27 <Slyon> dos1: i did a edje rewrite of shr-today, it's in git now, but i have to change the bb file in oe. can you help me with that?
Oct 13 17:19:29 <Blu3> if it's not qwerty, it's something resembling it, but still out of postion
Oct 13 17:19:59 <dos1> Slyon: ok, i'll look at it
Oct 13 17:20:02 <dos1> Blu3: strange...
Oct 13 17:20:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> dos1: we're talking about phones that miss special keys, as mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtmf#.23.2C_.2A.2C_A.2C_B.2C_C.2C_and_D
Oct 13 17:20:43 <Slyon> dos1: problem is, it's using edc files, which should be compiled before building
Oct 13 17:21:04 <Slyon> s/building/installing
Oct 13 17:21:48 <dos1> ABCD?
Oct 13 17:22:12 <Blu3> ancient office / industrial phones supported a 16 key keypad
Oct 13 17:22:22 <Blu3> 0-9 and A-D
Oct 13 17:22:30 <Blu3> and, * #
Oct 13 17:22:35 <dos1> oh, ok then
Oct 13 17:22:55 <dos1> then i didn't saw any phone with that special keys ;D
Oct 13 17:23:09 <dos1> Slyon: yup, i know
Oct 13 17:23:16 * dos1 is soo tired
Oct 13 17:23:48 <Slyon> dos1: okay, thanks for looking at it
Oct 13 17:25:08 <Slyon> btw, this is how it looks like at the moment: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/2ac5e1aaed533dbc5fc94366771010d8.png the slider is a bit laggy, maybe some edje guru can help me optimizing the code
Oct 13 17:27:09 <Blu3> there's a problem with trac.shr-project.org, the forever redirect after you request a password reset then log in
Oct 13 17:28:02 <Sharwin_F> Slyon, is that design of shr-today for some theme in particular?
Oct 13 17:29:06 <Slyon> Sharwin_F: nope, its completly independent, it has its own fully customizable edje file
Oct 13 17:30:08 <Sharwin_F> ok :)
Oct 13 17:30:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: for *warning* purposes I'd say any number not matching \+?[0-9]* should be considered a suspicious number format
Oct 13 17:30:47 <Sharwin_F> it looks awesome, but I'd like the colors to fit more niebiee theme :P
Oct 13 17:32:16 <Slyon> Sharwin_F: shouldn't be to hard to make a niebiee theme for shr-today. just changing a few png's and recompile the edc file
Oct 13 17:32:53 <Blu3> someone please fix trac.shr-project.org with the patch mentioned in http://trac-hacks.org/ticket/3233
Oct 13 17:33:01 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: but the root of that 226 ticket is, SMS needs a feedback of "sending..." and "sent"/"failed"
Oct 13 17:33:30 <Sharwin_F> Slyon, if the artistic values could be measurable, mine would be negative :P
Oct 13 17:33:41 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: which afaik is already implemented in opimd-mail sending
Oct 13 17:33:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> s/mail/sms/
Oct 13 17:33:59 <apt> DocScrutinizer-8 meant: TAsn: which afaik is already implemented in opimd-sms sending
Oct 13 17:34:52 <Slyon> Sharwin_F: hehe, i'm not a designer either
Oct 13 17:44:39 <Blu3> SHR people please update your webpage at http://wiki.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Communicate, shr-users@lists.shr-project.org is an invalid address :)
Oct 13 17:50:58 <dos1> Blu3: that's wiki ;P
Oct 13 17:51:03 <dos1> TAsn: why did you close #198?
Oct 13 17:51:12 <dos1> TAsn: AFAIK it isn't included...
Oct 13 17:51:56 <Blu3> dos1, and?
Oct 13 17:52:11 <Blu3> it's still invalid :P
Oct 13 17:52:28 <dos1> so you can edit it if you noticed wrong address :P
Oct 13 17:52:38 <dos1> but i'm editing it now
Oct 13 17:52:56 <Blu3> as i said ~20 minutes ago, someone needs to fix trac and i pasted a url
Oct 13 17:53:12 <Blu3> if you reset your password, then you can no longer go to the site
Oct 13 17:53:40 <Blu3> which effectively means that i can't log in so i therefore can't edit the wiki :P
Oct 13 17:53:49 <dos1> so why did you reset your password? ;p
Oct 13 17:54:44 <Blu3> uhm, because i needed to.  i reset it months ago and nobody has fixed the problem that i brought up months ago
Oct 13 17:58:58 <dos1> j/k ;p
Oct 13 18:01:09 <Sharwin_F> dos1, would you mind building python-lxml into the feeds if you have a moment ? :)
Oct 13 18:02:47 <dos1> Sharwin_F: it depends which feeds
Oct 13 18:02:53 <spaetz> are we updating the feeds again?
Oct 13 18:03:00 <dos1> and if it has bb file :P
Oct 13 18:03:23 <Sharwin_F> dos1, I think it has :)
Oct 13 18:03:35 <dos1> Sharwin_F: do you want it in unstable feeds?
Oct 13 18:03:40 <Sharwin_F> dos1, don't mind the feed as long as I can grap the ipkg file :P
Oct 13 18:03:41 <dos1> if yes, then i can't :P
Oct 13 18:03:48 <Sharwin_F> dos1, I'm using tests/mrmoku :)
Oct 13 18:03:54 <dos1> Sharwin_F: then i can ;D
Oct 13 18:04:00 <Sharwin_F> dos1, great! :D
Oct 13 18:07:23 <dos1> mrmoku|away: ping
Oct 13 18:08:46 <pieterc> how do you get apt-bot running on your own channel? ^^
Oct 13 18:09:15 <dos1> you all know about release of project b?
Oct 13 18:09:28 <pieterc> yeah;)
Oct 13 18:10:01 <Heinervdm> ~riker
Oct 13 18:10:05 <Heinervdm> ~tomriker
Oct 13 18:10:41 <Heinervdm> ~timriker
Oct 13 18:10:41 <apt> [timriker] my owner http://rikers.org/ mailto:Tim@Rikers.org mailto:TimR@Debian.org maintainer of BZFlag, member of a ton of open source projects http://www.advogato.com/person/timriker/ http://sourceforge.net/users/timriker/ the guy who GPL'd SCO's ABI files, giving every Linux user the right to use them ;-), or a very cool guy.
Oct 13 18:15:08 <pieterc> thanks :)
Oct 13 18:24:53 <Sharwin_F> dos1, tell me when it's build :)
Oct 13 18:25:04 <dos1> Sharwin_F: it's compiling ATM
Oct 13 18:25:11 <Sharwin_F> dos1, ok, thanks :)
Oct 13 18:25:52 <Sharwin_F> dos1, oh, and did you look at the error message I sent you the other day? opimd not loading SQLite-Messages backend...
Oct 13 18:26:45 <Sharwin_F> well, at least it says so in frameworkd.log and I can't read the sms I had in the sqlite file
Oct 13 18:26:51 <Slyon> dos1: is the new shr-today also going to be in tests/mrmoku for now?
Oct 13 18:27:09 <dos1> Slyon: after my fighting with recipe - probably yes ;)
Oct 13 18:27:16 <Slyon> okay :)
Oct 13 18:59:22 <benjamin_> hi everyone, last week i got a neo1973 mobile, and i installed the shr distribution
Oct 13 18:59:26 <benjamin_> its really cool
Oct 13 19:00:22 <benjamin_> but i wonder if there is a application to write a sms 
Oct 13 19:00:29 <benjamin_> by hand, without a pen
Oct 13 19:01:33 <benjamin_> is there a possibility to get a bigger keyboad?
Oct 13 19:02:28 <PaulFertser> benjamin_: you got gta01 and you're not a dev?
Oct 13 19:02:37 <spaetz> some uusers have creatted separate keyboard apps
Oct 13 19:04:28 <benjamin_> can you give me a hint
Oct 13 19:04:37 <benjamin_> where to get those apps 
Oct 13 19:04:41 <benjamin_> please
Oct 13 19:06:02 <benjamin_> PaulFertser: i found a openmoko at work
Oct 13 19:06:15 <benjamin_> and they allowed me to play with it :-)
Oct 13 19:06:37 <PaulFertser> benjamin_: are you sure that's gta01?
Oct 13 19:07:11 <benjamin_> its gta01bv4
Oct 13 19:08:22 <mrmoku> dos1: pong
Oct 13 19:08:28 <PaulFertser> benjamin_: ok, i see. I can't tell you about good apps to draw letters, but
Oct 13 19:08:30 <dos1> mrmoku: please cherry-pick fix for emotion to shr/merge
Oct 13 19:09:10 <mrmoku> dos1: what, where, how? 
Oct 13 19:09:17 <dos1> mrmoku: in shr/merge there is still old emotion recipe, which breaks staging :P
Oct 13 19:09:23 <PaulFertser> benjamin_: i use my fingernails and it works good for typing. Other people suggest "literki" and "qwo" as alternative input methods.
Oct 13 19:09:25 <mrmoku> uhh, ok
Oct 13 19:11:38 <mrmoku> dos1: got a commit hash?
Oct 13 19:12:06 <benjamin_> PaulFertser: thanks for the tips
Oct 13 19:12:39 <PaulFertser> benjamin_: some apps are at opkg.org but beware, they're not always compatible.
Oct 13 19:13:12 <dos1> mrmoku: 0bbdab0f7500f21871ce170000fa7ad4acd69840
Oct 13 19:17:02 <mrmoku> dos1: thanks
Oct 13 19:18:06 <mrmoku> dos1: applied and pushed
Oct 13 19:18:22 <dos1> thx :)
Oct 13 19:21:57 <dos1> mrmoku: can you also check patchwork?
Oct 13 19:24:58 * mrmoku checks patchwork
Oct 13 19:25:29 <net_tux> any suggestions on debugging bluetooth headset issues if I'm not hearing any sound on it? running hcidump doesn't show any data being transferred either :(
Oct 13 19:27:36 <mrmoku> playya: your shr-config patch is against shr/import?
Oct 13 19:28:01 <playya> yes. but spaetz suggested to completely remove it
Oct 13 19:28:21 <playya> because shr-settings is more evolve
Oct 13 19:28:34 <playya> and it doesn't compile ;)
Oct 13 19:31:45 <spaetz> mrmoku, it doesn't compile due to vala changes
Oct 13 19:31:55 <TAsn> dos1, really? hehe sorry then, I just noticed in the last couple of days that it works nicely :)
Oct 13 19:32:05 <JaMa> tmzt: now I'm at home and the calibration stuff with xinit doesn't work :/
Oct 13 19:32:11 <spaetz> i am fine with removing until i have time to  look at it
Oct 13 19:33:05 <pwgen> mickeyl ping
Oct 13 19:33:27 <JaMa> tmzt: or maybe i send also thouse 2 cmds for rotation.. mmt
Oct 13 19:34:57 <TAsn> mrmoku, what's our position concerning
Oct 13 19:35:10 <TAsn> publishing hte full poll results?
Oct 13 19:35:54 <spaetz> i'd do it
Oct 13 19:36:09 <spaetz> publish, that is
Oct 13 19:36:17 <JaMa> tmzt: and removing property setting doesnt look as easy as expected :) SHR root@gojama ~ $ xinput delete-prop "Touchscreen" "Evdev Axes Swap"
Oct 13 19:36:20 <JaMa> X Error of failed request:  BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)
Oct 13 19:36:32 <TAsn> spaetz, I think the same as you.
Oct 13 19:36:41 <TAsn> but I'm too lazy to ask in core team, bah. :|
Oct 13 19:36:50 <TAsn> I think I'll just publish after we decide the winner.
Oct 13 19:36:57 <TAsn> *we decide to publish the winner
Oct 13 19:37:17 <spaetz> sounds good
Oct 13 19:38:34 <mrmoku> any marshalling expert around? sba{sv} translates to VOID:STRING,BOOLEAN,BOXED no?
Oct 13 19:38:55 <mrmoku> TAsn: yup publish
Oct 13 19:39:15 <TAsn> mrmoku, how's ophonekitd doing btw?
Oct 13 19:39:28 <TAsn> have you thought about a way to prompt the user about bad numbers?
Oct 13 19:40:02 <mrmoku> fine... until I started to create a small testcase for the signal to early problem... and I'm hanging at stupid marshalling :(
Oct 13 19:40:11 <TAsn> :|
Oct 13 19:40:28 <mrmoku> TAsn: so... solve my marshalling problem and I will commit something :)
Oct 13 19:40:39 <TAsn> hehe :)
Oct 13 19:42:01 <dos1> three arguments: string, boolean and dictionary/hashtable
Oct 13 19:42:25 <dos1> that's all what i understand from that dbus signatures ;)
Oct 13 19:44:08 <mrmoku> dos1: yup :)
Oct 13 19:44:18 <mrmoku> ResourceChanged signal
Oct 13 19:46:12 <benjamin_> PaulFertser: do you own a neo1973 too? is it a known issue that the keyboad doesn't work if i rotate the screen using xrandr
Oct 13 19:46:56 <PaulFertser> benjamin_: yes, a known shr issue.
Oct 13 19:47:07 <PaulFertser> benjamin_: you need to turn off the keyboard before rotation i guess
Oct 13 19:53:19 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * r71e5569c7b31 10/src/ (5 files): move part of phone-utils.* to phone-utils-gsm.*
Oct 13 19:56:46 <onen|openBmap> I would need help with connman.
Oct 13 19:57:15 <onen|openBmap> using mdbus, at root /, getproperties, the device list is empty
Oct 13 19:58:38 <onen|openBmap> when I use /device/my-mac-address ProposeScan, then GetProperties, I see a list of network, with url following: /device/my-mac-address/AP-mac-address
Oct 13 19:58:54 <onen|openBmap> but I cannot figure out how to use this (I have no object at this url :-( )
Oct 13 19:58:57 <onen|openBmap> anyone?
Oct 13 19:59:27 <spaetz> sorry,  nope
Oct 13 19:59:40 <Gnutoo> hi PaulFertser I've a log from my phone : http://pastebin.com/m53bc3305
Oct 13 19:59:48 <Gnutoo> I don't get a sound...
Oct 13 19:59:53 <Gnutoo> when calling the 4242
Oct 13 20:00:01 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: hi
Oct 13 20:00:56 <onen|openBmap> spaetz: thanks
Oct 13 20:01:23 <onen|openBmap> well it seems to me as it does not work quite right. I will probably fall back to iwtools then
Oct 13 20:01:37 <tmzt> JaMa: just set to 0 0
Oct 13 20:01:43 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: it'd be interesting to compare it with "proper" commands. Also iirc you need to "activate" sound routing by some ioctl call.
Oct 13 20:01:44 <tmzt> don't have to remove
Oct 13 20:01:57 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok
Oct 13 20:02:15 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, fso activate sound routing by ioctl commands?
Oct 13 20:02:15 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: oh, by proper command i mean those issued by android of course.
Oct 13 20:02:18 <Gnutoo> because FSO worked
Oct 13 20:02:28 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok I'll paste you that
Oct 13 20:02:36 <tmzt> android? on what?
Oct 13 20:02:44 <tmzt> oh, hi, Gnutoo
Oct 13 20:02:50 <Gnutoo> yes indeed tmzt hi
Oct 13 20:02:52 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: fso can do various things, on freerunner it calls alsactl restore.
Oct 13 20:03:04 <tmzt> are you using alsa yet?
Oct 13 20:03:05 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok
Oct 13 20:03:06 <JaMa> tmzt: I restarted xorg :)
Oct 13 20:03:13 <Gnutoo> tmzt, yes and no
Oct 13 20:03:20 <Gnutoo> tmzt, alsa works only with aplay
Oct 13 20:03:20 <tmzt> JaMa: did it work?
Oct 13 20:03:41 <JaMa> tmzt: no.. it looks upside down
Oct 13 20:03:50 <Gnutoo> tmzt, maybe with dummy->file-plugin->aplay->hw=1,0
Oct 13 20:03:53 <tmzt> right, you ned set-audio-path htc-hw to be exposed as dapms
Oct 13 20:04:12 <tmzt> JaMa: try inverting one asix
Oct 13 20:04:14 <Gnutoo> tmzt, ok how do FSO does that
Oct 13 20:04:23 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * ref4df6d3f159 10/src/ (Makefile.am str-utils.c str-utils.h str_utils.c str_utils.h): added Wextra and Werror to compiler flags
Oct 13 20:04:24 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * rd349d11760f3 10/src/ (phone-utils-gsm.c phone-utils.c str-utils.c str-utils.h): added missing includes and renamed str_utils to str-utils to conform with the rest of the lib
Oct 13 20:04:31 <JaMa> tmzt: with Evdev Axis Inversion?
Oct 13 20:04:35 <tmzt> yes
Oct 13 20:04:40 <tmzt> it's x y
Oct 13 20:04:48 <tmzt> invert the one that's wrong
Oct 13 20:04:52 <tmzt> but don't swap
Oct 13 20:05:20 <tmzt> Gnutoo: fso? this is in kernel/asoc drivers
Oct 13 20:05:27 <tmzt> fso just uses alsactl
Oct 13 20:05:39 <JaMa> tmzt: I tried, its better but ist a bit misplaced
Oct 13 20:05:43 <Gnutoo> tmzt, so why could I call with FSO ?
Oct 13 20:06:03 <tmzt> did you echo to sysfs?
Oct 13 20:06:04 <JaMa> tmzt: top line is about 1cm lower than should be, the same down
Oct 13 20:06:07 <JaMa> tmzt: yes
Oct 13 20:06:08 <tmzt> I don't kniw
Oct 13 20:06:10 <JaMa> without echo?
Oct 13 20:06:31 <tmzt> JaMa: sorry, that was to Gnutoo
Oct 13 20:06:49 <tmzt> is you kernel calibration script being used?
Oct 13 20:06:52 <Gnutoo> tmzt, echo what?
Oct 13 20:07:07 <tmzt> I don't know your ts driver very well
Oct 13 20:07:28 <Gnutoo> tmzt, ah ts driver...I have 2 drivers:
Oct 13 20:07:33 <Gnutoo> *one tslib working
Oct 13 20:07:37 <tmzt> Gnutoo: do you have /sys/clas/vogue_hw/audio ?
Oct 13 20:07:44 <Gnutoo> ok I'll look
Oct 13 20:08:21 <Sharwin_F|afk> dos1, python can't import python-lxml package, so the package must be wrong :S
Oct 13 20:08:36 <dos1> import python-lxml?
Oct 13 20:08:39 <dos1> wtf?
Oct 13 20:08:41 <Sharwin_F|afk> import lxml
Oct 13 20:08:45 <dos1> import lxml doesn't work? :P
Oct 13 20:08:47 <tmzt> Gnutoo: this ts stuff should work on g1 also, but I'm trying to test it in a known good situation and g1 doesn't nee calibration anyway
Oct 13 20:08:48 <Sharwin_F|afk> >>> import lxml
Oct 13 20:08:48 <Sharwin_F|afk> Traceback (most recent call last):
Oct 13 20:08:48 <Sharwin_F|afk>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
Oct 13 20:08:48 <Sharwin_F|afk> ImportError: No module named lxml
Oct 13 20:08:51 <dos1> well, i just built it :P
Oct 13 20:09:06 <Gnutoo> tmzt, calibration for ts or for audio?
Oct 13 20:09:07 <Sharwin_F|afk> dos1, I just tried it :P
Oct 13 20:09:36 <Gnutoo> I've /sys/class/adsp
Oct 13 20:09:37 <tmzt> Gnutoo: ts
Oct 13 20:09:50 <Gnutoo> tmzt, so let's talk about ts:
Oct 13 20:09:55 <Sharwin_F|afk> dos1, also it has cofnlicts with python-setuptools
Oct 13 20:10:00 <Gnutoo> tmzt, I've tslib and that works fine...
Oct 13 20:10:04 <tmzt> isn't thre a mixer setting for routing?
Oct 13 20:10:10 <Sharwin_F|afk> * Package python-lxml wants to install file /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/site.py
Oct 13 20:10:10 <Sharwin_F|afk> 	But that file is already provided by package  * python-setuptools
Oct 13 20:10:20 <tmzt> Gnutoo: sorry, I was working with JaMa on that
Oct 13 20:10:20 <Gnutoo> tmzt, I've tried importing the filter thing...without success because it wants a special struct:
Oct 13 20:10:45 <tmzt> Gnutoo: are you still using kdrive/Xfbdev?
Oct 13 20:10:54 <Gnutoo> yes and no: I've 2 images
Oct 13 20:11:26 <Sharwin_F|afk> dos1, but that's not the problem of failing on import, as I've uninstalled setuptools and installed lxml correctly :P
Oct 13 20:11:34 <tmzt> Gnutoo: when you want to try Xorg we will do that , we can try evdev instead of tslib
Oct 13 20:11:57 <Gnutoo> tmzt, ok let me find the filter header
Oct 13 20:11:59 <tmzt> Gnutoo: evdev should work great on capac. ts as no calibration is needed
Oct 13 20:12:17 <Gnutoo> tmzt, realy? It need calibration
Oct 13 20:12:26 <Gnutoo> tmzt, tslib works fine...evdev is not precise
Oct 13 20:12:45 <Gnutoo> tmzt, basically when you move the finger it looses precision
Oct 13 20:12:59 <JaMa> tmzt: i rebooted without echo for calibration and just xinput and it seems fine
Oct 13 20:13:06 <tmzt> I woner why that is
Oct 13 20:13:13 <tmzt> Jama: no regression?
Oct 13 20:13:46 <Gnutoo> tmzt, how do you overcome that:         struct platform_device *pdev, ?
Oct 13 20:13:52 <tmzt> JaMa: does it handle only touches or also drags
Oct 13 20:14:02 <JaMa> mmt installing sketch book
Oct 13 20:14:05 <Gnutoo> tmzt, in the filters
Oct 13 20:14:10 <tmzt> Gnutoo: sounds like that's in the kernel
Oct 13 20:14:15 <Gnutoo> tmzt, yes it is
Oct 13 20:14:20 <tmzt> filters?
Oct 13 20:14:28 <Gnutoo> tmzt, indeed for calibration
Oct 13 20:14:39 <tmzt> overcme what?
Oct 13 20:14:44 <JaMa> tmzt: but drags works ok..
Oct 13 20:14:50 <Gnutoo> .../openmoko-kernel/drivers/input/touchscreen
Oct 13 20:14:59 <Hardy> Tasn, you couldnt stop right? nice work on fixing :D
Oct 13 20:15:01 <Gnutoo> that where the filter thing comes from
Oct 13 20:15:14 <TAsn> Hardy, referring to what? :)
Oct 13 20:15:20 <Gnutoo> I imported them in my linuxtogo htc 2.6.29 kernel
Oct 13 20:15:29 <tmzt> don't get what you mean by filter
Oct 13 20:15:58 <tmzt> unless you mean in-kernel calibration/scaling, which is not what I'm working on
Oct 13 20:16:01 <Gnutoo> tmzt, look at the openmoko evdev touchscreen driver
Oct 13 20:16:03 <larsc> touchscreen filters
Oct 13 20:16:04 <Hardy> Timeline of SHR :D
Oct 13 20:16:11 <Hardy> Tasn 
Oct 13 20:16:19 <larsc> Gnutoo: what do you want to do?
Oct 13 20:16:30 <mrmoku> hmm... it is dbus_g_type_get_map("GHashTable", G_TYPE_STRING, G_TYPE_VALUE) that does not work...
Oct 13 20:16:31 <Gnutoo> larsc, I'll explain:
Oct 13 20:16:37 <tmzt> Gnutoo: kernel driver?
Oct 13 20:16:39 <Hardy> just reading your name xD thats great :D
Oct 13 20:16:44 <TAsn> Hardy, hehe, if there's one thing in this world that I hate
Oct 13 20:16:52 <TAsn> is a mess in the bug reporting system :)
Oct 13 20:17:24 <Hardy> ^^ yeah xD
Oct 13 20:17:26 <TAsn> Hardy, though dos1 caught me in the middle of the power trip (closing a bug that's not really fixed)
Oct 13 20:17:27 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 20:17:28 <tmzt> Gnutoo: I mean Xorg evdev driver
Oct 13 20:17:40 <Gnutoo> larsc, I had this tslib driver that was working well...but tmzt wants evdev and he's right because we got xorg support without relying on the old xf86-input-tslib driver
Oct 13 20:18:16 <tmzt> Gnutoo: not sure about synaptics qmi
Oct 13 20:18:23 <Hardy> Tasn, what did i have to heared? not really fixed??? tztz i take everything back what i've said xD
Oct 13 20:18:48 <Gnutoo> tmzt, so I modified the tslib driver to make an evdev driver...that worked....badly.....when press then move your finger the cursor goes far away from your finger
Oct 13 20:18:58 <TAsn> Hardy, it's not me! it's the power! I couldn't help it. it just took over me! bah. :(
Oct 13 20:19:00 <Gnutoo> s/ tmzt / larsc 
Oct 13 20:19:30 <tmzt> Gnutoo: doing math like that in the kernel is usually bad
Oct 13 20:19:34 <Hardy> TAsn: keep watching if its not overwhelming ya xD
Oct 13 20:19:35 <Gnutoo> larsc, so I tried to import the openmoko filters in order to use with the synaptics qmi driver
Oct 13 20:19:47 <Gnutoo> tmzt, so what should we do?
Oct 13 20:20:01 <tmzt> join #android :)
Oct 13 20:20:04 <larsc> Gnutoo: that wont work unless you really know what you are doing
Oct 13 20:20:13 <Gnutoo> larsc, indeed
Oct 13 20:20:24 <Gnutoo> I don't know exactly what I was doing
Oct 13 20:20:36 <Gnutoo> larsc, so back to tslib?
Oct 13 20:20:46 <Gnutoo> no recent xorg support?
Oct 13 20:20:58 <TAsn> Hardy, :)
Oct 13 20:21:03 <Gnutoo> is tslib development dead?
Oct 13 20:21:24 <larsc> Gnutoo: my plan is to fix xf86-input-tslib for xserver 1.7.0 tonight
Oct 13 20:21:34 <tmzt> any reason why evdev shouldn't work?
Oct 13 20:21:41 <Hardy> TAsn: xD 
Oct 13 20:21:53 <Gnutoo> larsc, ok I started that...but didn't go further because of the lack of time...
Oct 13 20:22:16 <tmzt> larsc: what support would be neeed for nonlinear scaling in evdev?
Oct 13 20:22:26 <tmzt> (xorg driver)
Oct 13 20:22:47 <Gnutoo> tmzt, btw I've /sys/class/adsp
Oct 13 20:23:02 <larsc> tmzt: i never looked at evdev driver
Oct 13 20:23:52 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, do you prefer FSO or reference-ril logs?
Oct 13 20:24:08 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, because fso can call 
Oct 13 20:27:36 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * r542365b43b7d 10/src/ (phone-utils.c phone-utils.h.in): changed possible_chars to be composed of POSSIBLE_DIGITS AND a '+' and added phone_utils_is_valid_number that returns wether a number is valid or not
Oct 13 20:28:46 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * re5e76a1d87f1 10/src/phone-utils.c: removed the stupid ; now it even compiles...
Oct 13 20:30:01 <TAsn> mrmoku, coming to think about it, I'm not sure I even like #296
Oct 13 20:30:09 <TAsn> or was it 226?
Oct 13 20:30:19 <Blu3> hmm.  removed the stupid.  i like those checkins
Oct 13 20:30:38 <mrmoku> the stupid _;_
Oct 13 20:30:53 <TAsn> anyhow, people can still make contacts with bad numbers (without a warning) and then try to send them an sms without a warning
Oct 13 20:30:54 <TAsn> ...
Oct 13 20:30:57 <TAsn> :|
Oct 13 20:31:02 <Blu3> well.  removing the stupid period is good :>
Oct 13 20:32:51 <juri_> so, whats with the openmoko wikireader device?
Oct 13 20:32:55 <TAsn> mrmoku, 
Oct 13 20:32:58 <TAsn> if (string_is_number(number)) {
Oct 13 20:33:08 <TAsn> message_new_view:721
Oct 13 20:33:14 <TAsn> you already fixed 226...
Oct 13 20:33:21 <TAsn> (kinda)
Oct 13 20:33:42 <TAsn> it doesn't let you enter non numbers numbers :)
Oct 13 20:34:12 <TAsn> sweet :)
Oct 13 20:35:07 <Gnutoo> TAsn, like ABCDEF ? for gov things?
Oct 13 20:35:17 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: hm, i think fso then. But you should find a way to route audio properly. I'm not sure how fso does that on dream.
Oct 13 20:35:31 <TAsn> btw mrmoku I'm removing string_is_number in favor of the phone_utils alternative, and strip html in favor of elm's function
Oct 13 20:35:33 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok 
Oct 13 20:36:06 <TAsn> Gnutoo, I forgot to put it in the string (actually forgot to handle this in phone_utils at all) although I'm aware of that, sec, fixing, but yeah ;)
Oct 13 20:36:34 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: btw, i'm in no way a gsm expert, i don't even remotely resemble one. So i want to warn you in advance it can happen you're spending time without any benefit with me ;)
Oct 13 20:36:48 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok np
Oct 13 20:37:04 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, I know less than you so what else could I do anyway
Oct 13 20:37:37 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, btw I saw in a modem that you needed an AT command for setting the frequency
Oct 13 20:37:42 <Gnutoo> (US/EU etc...)
Oct 13 20:38:27 <tmzt> Gnutoo: you have the alsa support added to your kernel, right?
Oct 13 20:38:43 <Gnutoo> tmzt, only aplay works...and not in the one I'm using right now
Oct 13 20:38:44 <TAsn> Blu3, take this :)
Oct 13 20:38:49 <TAsn> pushing...
Oct 13 20:38:50 <tmzt> can you use alsactl or alsamixer to change routing
Oct 13 20:38:55 <TAsn> bah. it's hard to push ;)
Oct 13 20:38:56 <tmzt> alsa is more than pcm
Oct 13 20:39:02 <Blu3> heheheh
Oct 13 20:39:05 <tmzt> it's also mixer
Oct 13 20:39:10 <TAsn> wtf, push already... :|
Oct 13 20:39:16 <TAsn> ffs.
Oct 13 20:39:52 <TAsn> doesn't push :|
Oct 13 20:40:41 <tmzt> Gnutoo: who was doing alsa for msm?
Oct 13 20:40:52 <JaMa> tmzt: sorry I retested.. because i found another calibration with echo .. > /sys in /etc/init.d and now it doesn't work :/
Oct 13 20:41:01 <Gnutoo> tmzt, codeaurora
Oct 13 20:41:13 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, http://pastebin.com/m1e3f8384
Oct 13 20:41:14 <tmzt> your other option is to build utilities like playwav2
Oct 13 20:41:27 <tmzt> Gnutoo: I mean who from #htc-linux?
Oct 13 20:41:30 <Gnutoo> tmzt, ok I've that already
Oct 13 20:41:35 <JaMa> tmzt: should be xinput enough for calibration or do I need both? echos and then xinput? because then it works ok even without xinput, but xinput could be usefull when rotating screen
Oct 13 20:41:46 <Gnutoo> tmzt, druidu started but I couldn't find him...so I imported alsa...
Oct 13 20:41:55 <Gnutoo> tmzt, so that's me unfortunately
Oct 13 20:42:09 <tmzt> xinput should be enough, but it's possible your kernel ts driver does to much
Oct 13 20:42:10 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * rc4935c390f89 10/src/phone-utils-gsm.h: added the stupid
Oct 13 20:42:13 <Gnutoo> tmzt, and debugging with printk isn't fun
Oct 13 20:42:24 <tmzt> Gnutoo: somebody had it working, was that you?
Oct 13 20:42:26 <Gnutoo> I've no serial cable
Oct 13 20:42:48 <Gnutoo> tmzt, no it was druidu but druidu can't be found...I've got it somewhat working too but only with aplay
Oct 13 20:43:24 * mrmoku takes the freaking marshallers and stuffs them under his pillow
Oct 13 20:43:34 <mrmoku> maybe sleeping over them helps...
Oct 13 20:43:38 <mrmoku> gnight all
Oct 13 20:43:41 <Gnutoo> tmzt, personally I don't call aplay-only working...
Oct 13 20:43:50 <JaMa> mrmoku|away: gnite
Oct 13 20:43:56 <tmzt> aplay used mixer ioctls didn't it?
Oct 13 20:44:05 <tmzt> I remember you discussing that
Oct 13 20:44:10 <spaetz> hehhee, night then mrmoku
Oct 13 20:44:22 <Gnutoo> tmzt, yes I think so...the WRITEI thing
Oct 13 20:44:23 <tmzt> you need to expose the audio path as a mixer control (dapm)
Oct 13 20:44:38 <Gnutoo> tmzt, done
Oct 13 20:44:43 <tmzt> the alsamixer/amixer should be usable
Oct 13 20:44:53 <tmzt> as well as asoundctl save/restor
Oct 13 20:44:57 <Gnutoo> tmzt, it is...it has only an issue that I found hacking on android....
Oct 13 20:45:04 <tmzt> that's what pf was asking wasn't it?
Oct 13 20:45:10 <tmzt> what was that?
Oct 13 20:45:28 <Gnutoo> tmzt, null pointer when using headset+handset at the same time
Oct 13 20:45:37 <Gnutoo> at least that's what I have on android
Oct 13 20:45:49 <Gnutoo> and so I bet the crash of adsp I have is due to that
Oct 13 20:46:11 <tmzt> interesting
Oct 13 20:46:16 <Gnutoo> tmzt, oops no null pointer on android but adsp crash
Oct 13 20:46:27 <tmzt> but your device switches with a gpio?
Oct 13 20:46:36 <Gnutoo> null pointer only in GNU/Linux+linux kenrel
Oct 13 20:47:10 <tmzt> can you you use a work queue to flip that, not in sys/ioctl handlr?
Oct 13 20:47:22 <Gnutoo> tmzt, basically in alsamixer you have 2 bars...the left one is the volume and the right one is the....routing...ouch yes
Oct 13 20:47:53 <Gnutoo> I didn't look into the lower level switching than the mixer api
Oct 13 20:47:54 <Gnutoo> yet
Oct 13 20:48:08 <Gnutoo> basically the routing is a mixer
Oct 13 20:48:23 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: do you see a sudden switch to Roman time? ;) INFO     GSM: timezone 'Europe/Rome' 
Oct 13 20:49:07 <Gnutoo> Sat Oct 10 20:59:38 CEST 2009
Oct 13 20:49:12 <Gnutoo> but it's 22:51 here
Oct 13 20:49:51 <Gnutoo> tmzt, for the audio I've 2 issues:
Oct 13 20:50:01 <Gnutoo> *the first I have is the crash of the adsp....
Oct 13 20:50:31 <Gnutoo> *the second one who worries me the most is that only aplay can play audio,ogg123 is audible but not great and mplayer waits for an ioctl
Oct 13 20:50:36 <Gnutoo> I've traced the mplayer thing
Oct 13 20:50:49 <Gnutoo> without any debugger(only printks)
Oct 13 20:51:06 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: your manual method of calling seemed to work properly when you got OK after ATD. Lack of sound is properly a sound routing issue.
Oct 13 20:51:09 <Gnutoo> even debugger in userspace won't work....it makes the phone reboot when you type bt
Oct 13 20:51:20 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok thanks a lot
Oct 13 20:51:30 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, fso got sound so I'll look into fso
Oct 13 20:51:35 <Gnutoo> but I don't know what to grep for
Oct 13 20:52:09 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: look at your oeventsd rules file first of all.
Oct 13 20:53:08 <Gnutoo> ok thanks a lot
Oct 13 20:53:18 <Gnutoo> tmzt, I traced it until that line: rc = wait_event_interruptible(the_locks.read_wait,(prtd->in_count > 0)|| prtd->stopped);
Oct 13 20:54:05 <TAsn> Blu3, what I meant: <CIA-26> SHR: tom libphone-utils * rc4935c390f89 /src/phone-utils-gsm.h: added the stupid
Oct 13 20:54:06 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 20:54:18 <Blu3> heheheh
Oct 13 20:54:29 * Blu3 likes filtering the stupid
Oct 13 20:55:04 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: on freerunner there's SetScenario call in there.
Oct 13 20:55:09 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, it does only alsa commands and I don't have alsa in that kenrel: 
Oct 13 20:55:20 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: that means just alsactl restore -f /usr/share/scenario/<name>.state
Oct 13 20:55:21 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * r95830c0d67a3 10/src/phone-utils.c: also added A-D to the legal digits - Gnutoo: thanks for reminding me
Oct 13 20:55:53 <Gnutoo> http://pastebin.com/m4c55d8a3
Oct 13 20:56:07 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: probably you were just lucky having started it in gsm-routing mode occasionally (by rebooting at right time or something)? Or there's some special AT command...
Oct 13 20:56:33 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, I don't know...I boot and it's there
Oct 13 20:56:50 <Gnutoo> I can try changing the route
Oct 13 20:56:59 <Gnutoo> I've a program for that...called playwav2
Oct 13 20:57:06 <Gnutoo> s/I've/there is a 
Oct 13 20:57:27 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: (events rules) nothing in there
Oct 13 20:58:11 <Gnutoo> indeed
Oct 13 20:58:20 <Gnutoo> I'll look into the modem files
Oct 13 20:58:38 <tmzt> I will be back in a few minutes
Oct 13 20:58:59 <tmzt> you should be able to changethe route with just alsa
Oct 13 20:59:42 <tmzt> do you need to play something with playwav first?
Oct 13 20:59:54 <Gnutoo> tmzt, not needed
Oct 13 20:59:54 <tmzt> before calls work
Oct 13 20:59:59 <tmzt> good
Oct 13 21:00:01 <Gnutoo> no not needed
Oct 13 21:01:16 <DocScrutinizer> tmzt: Gnutoo: what you're talking about?
Oct 13 21:01:43 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: using modem and other parts of HTC Dream.
Oct 13 21:01:49 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Oct 13 21:01:49 <Gnutoo> DocScrutinizer, after that: <tmzt> I will be back in a few minutes ? 
Oct 13 21:02:01 <Gnutoo> ah sorry wrong person
Oct 13 21:02:11 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * re5722a6f25bf 10/src/ (phone-utils-gsm.c str-utils.c): added missing newlines at ends of files
Oct 13 21:02:37 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: I don't see anything interesting in at commands of fso, i don't see any clue in other files. I just don't get how you might have got the sound with FSO (confused)
Oct 13 21:02:54 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, it works that way:
Oct 13 21:03:15 <Gnutoo> arm11(application cpu)->arm9->audio-dsp
Oct 13 21:03:23 <Gnutoo> arm9->modem&gps
Oct 13 21:03:38 <Gnutoo> at least that's what I understood from what I was told
Oct 13 21:03:48 <TAsn> mrmoku|away, fixed a crazy memory leak :)
Oct 13 21:03:59 <Gnutoo> so maybe the arm9 setup the audio for the modem by itself
Oct 13 21:04:50 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: yes, but fso doesn't seem to issue any special commands. After it answers "ok" to your ATD try to poll it with AT+CLCC to see the call status.
Oct 13 21:05:02 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok thanks
Oct 13 21:05:09 <Gnutoo> good idea
Oct 13 21:05:12 <Gnutoo> fso does it
Oct 13 21:05:22 <Gnutoo> or was it android?
Oct 13 21:05:26 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: fso
Oct 13 21:05:31 <Gnutoo> ok
Oct 13 21:05:56 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: look at the third value returned, when it's 2, call initiation is ongoing, and 0 seems to indicate you connected.
Oct 13 21:06:12 <Gnutoo> ok
Oct 13 21:06:16 <Gnutoo> I've 0707
Oct 13 21:06:41 <Gnutoo> rebooting for reseting the modem(I'm not shure ATZ reset it entierly)
Oct 13 21:07:05 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: btw, what's the end of the story with mystic problems with some usa devices?
Oct 13 21:07:47 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, tha's indeed why I'm asking you for that AT command...I'm preparing a set of AT commands for them
Oct 13 21:09:11 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, but I found that: http://www.instructables.com/id/SXITOBDFOD7QJEN/
Oct 13 21:09:25 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, "Depending on where in the world you are, you might need to change the band setting. The dierent bands you can set are dened by the following parameters: "
Oct 13 21:09:37 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: i hoped that was a link to some tits or whatever
Oct 13 21:10:17 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: what makes you think the modem you have in Dream is similar to Telit?
Oct 13 21:11:02 <Gnutoo> nothing just that the reference ril doesn't work in us adp phones ...so I thought that I might have missed a command like that
Oct 13 21:12:39 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: reference ril doesn't work but what about proprietary? And who buys ADP anyway when usual phones can be unlocked and made the same?
Oct 13 21:12:40 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07shr * r7f4a0f295672 10/libframeworkd-phonegui/src/frameworkd-phonegui-utility.c: added missing include
Oct 13 21:13:15 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, basically reference ril works for me but not for adp,proprietary ril works for both....
Oct 13 21:13:35 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: why don't you capture proprietary's ril output?
Oct 13 21:13:45 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, ok I need a kernel patch?
Oct 13 21:13:53 <Gnutoo> just printk the AT commands?
Oct 13 21:14:01 <Gnutoo> like we said before?
Oct 13 21:14:51 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07shr * rda053ee3fa82 10/libframeworkd-phonegui/src/frameworkd-phonegui-utility.c: Revert "added missing include" - as it wasn't really missing
Oct 13 21:14:54 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: yeah (rolling eyes)
Oct 13 21:14:58 <Gnutoo> ok thanks
Oct 13 21:15:10 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: at least that's what i'd do
Oct 13 21:15:13 <Gnutoo> I didn't remember to printk the AT commands....
Oct 13 21:15:18 <Gnutoo> sorry
Oct 13 21:15:23 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-utils * ra338823b9f4f 10/src/phone-utils-gsm.h: added the _GSM part to the ifdef of phone_utils_gsm
Oct 13 21:15:38 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: probably there's an easier method like intercepting them a layer hight but i know too little about RILs to tell for sure.
Oct 13 21:16:04 <Gnutoo> ok
Oct 13 21:18:29 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: running strings on proprietary ril can be beneficial too, it doesn't take time to try but can suddenly make you realise the missing command.
Oct 13 21:18:45 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, it works but I never used it
Oct 13 21:19:01 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, and it's not realtime 
Oct 13 21:19:07 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, and there is no time in it
Oct 13 21:19:47 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: what are you talking about, i don't understand a word?
Oct 13 21:20:05 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: if you can you can also try "stracing" proprietary ril.
Oct 13 21:20:10 <PaulFertser> Instead of kernel patching.
Oct 13 21:20:16 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, strings ./proprietary_ril
Oct 13 21:21:02 <PaulFertser> Gnutoo: i said it might help in some rare case. It's just like trying to find stupid hardcoded password in some win32 executable. Sometimes it just works that way. :)
Oct 13 21:21:32 <Gnutoo> PaulFertser, the AT commands are strings...
Oct 13 21:21:49 <prahal> had to do a local hack for to compile phonegui and ophonekitd  http://pastebin.com/f499ff751 . It is working there that s all I can tell. Too new in the playground
Oct 13 21:21:55 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * rd5a905a7aeeb 10/TODO: updated todo
Oct 13 21:21:56 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * r5566764cfe4e 10/src/view/message-new-view.c: added a missing g_strstrip to strip trailing newline
Oct 13 21:21:57 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * r131d197d5c52 10/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): removed the string_is_number and string_strip_html and used the phone_utils and elm alternatives - more testing is needed as I'm tired and maybe not fit for testing :)
Oct 13 21:21:58 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * r6bfd4f4401db 10/src/view/contact-show-view.c: s/8\//*\//
Oct 13 21:22:02 <TAsn> finally, lost the ugly hacks :)
Oct 13 21:22:26 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, what are the restrictions on PIN and PUK?
Oct 13 21:22:44 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
Oct 13 21:22:55 <DocScrutinizer> probably nobody knows for sure
Oct 13 21:23:11 <DocScrutinizer> pin has to be >=4 chars afaik
Oct 13 21:23:14 <prahal> what is the process for such a fix (against latest framework-glib) ?
Oct 13 21:24:17 <DocScrutinizer> I don't think the definition of PIN has any restriction to 0..9 or anything
Oct 13 21:24:50 <DocScrutinizer> but for obvious reasons it shouldn't use non-numeric
Oct 13 21:24:54 <prahal> ie is phonegui (the ophonekitd -lm added seems pretty objective) made to build against shr version of framework-glib and I ll have to wait for an upgrade of shr ?
Oct 13 21:24:57 <DocScrutinizer> and it must not be 112
Oct 13 21:25:01 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
Oct 13 21:25:06 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * r34876e16ec3d 10/src/util/ (helper.c helper.h): removed string_replace_newline which is useless and ugly
Oct 13 21:30:16 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * r0750187fa36f 10/TODO: added something to TODO
Oct 13 21:33:16 <TAsn> ok, I think I'm done destroying efl2 for today :)
Oct 13 21:33:33 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * r2c1eb1a3d957 10/src/view/message-list-view.c: removed weird spacing
Oct 13 21:33:33 <CIA-26> SHR: 03tom 07libframeworkd-phonegui-efl2 * r8ee1e38ed925 10/src/ (util/helper.c util/helper.h view/message-list-view.c): removed all traces to that horrible time_stringtotimestamp function
Oct 13 22:23:24 <TAsn> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/UTYlJhZ3ElE/Wikipedia-In-Your-Pocket-99 <-- by the openmoko  dude.
Oct 13 22:25:01 <max_posedon> TAsn, in russian, we usually say "good morning" in this situation)
Oct 13 22:25:21 <TAsn> max_posedon, same here. :)
Oct 13 22:25:26 <TAsn> so that's project B?
Oct 13 22:25:44 <TAsn> I already have a wiki reader btw
Oct 13 22:25:44 <max_posedon> looks like
Oct 13 22:25:49 <TAsn> I call it an FR gta02
Oct 13 22:25:50 <TAsn> :)
Oct 13 22:26:04 <max_posedon> can it work for a 1 year without charging?)
Oct 13 22:26:15 <TAsn> max_posedon, omg, are you for real?
Oct 13 22:26:20 <TAsn> the wikireader can do that?
Oct 13 22:26:31 <TAsn> OMG that's cool! :)
Oct 13 22:26:37 <max_posedon> at least they sais it on their site
Oct 13 22:26:50 <max_posedon> and work from regular AAA batteries
Oct 13 22:26:57 <TAsn> but that's probably without cool html formatting and images
Oct 13 22:27:03 <TAsn> only lame text :{
Oct 13 22:27:06 <TAsn> or something ;)
Oct 13 22:27:06 <max_posedon> yes
Oct 13 22:27:11 <TAsn> ^ sucks.
Oct 13 22:27:18 <TAsn> sex sells, not text.
Oct 13 22:27:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> hehe
Oct 13 22:27:55 <max_posedon> as for me, I'll thinking on buying couple(~5), nice crissmass gift
Oct 13 22:28:12 <TAsn> and a picture is worth a thousand words (and a thousand battery hours) therefore it's too bad they don't have images support.
Oct 13 22:28:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> and yes, this time we did it right from beginning with "suspend"
Oct 13 22:28:36 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, you just don't suspend?
Oct 13 22:28:44 <TAsn> just "suspend" processes?
Oct 13 22:28:55 <max_posedon> DocScrutinizer-8, so, may be you know answer for 2nd most important question
Oct 13 22:28:59 <max_posedon> lcd or e-ink?
Oct 13 22:29:02 <DocScrutinizer-8> there is no processes, there is no suspend
Oct 13 22:29:02 <TAsn> and use a chip that can work slow with almost no power consumption?
Oct 13 22:29:07 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: you seem to become a rich man i see. Sheevaplug, other toys lately...
Oct 13 22:29:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> lcd
Oct 13 22:29:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> and kinda zeroclock
Oct 13 22:29:33 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, you know, Belarus not so pour country)
Oct 13 22:29:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: exactly
Oct 13 22:30:07 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, yeah, that's a better approach :)
Oct 13 22:30:10 <max_posedon> and main reason, I'm geek, I need only food, bed, and devices/devices/devices)
Oct 13 22:30:15 <TAsn> (especially for this kind of purposes)
Oct 13 22:30:23 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: well, tbh no, i do not. I care about censorship a lot more than about money.
Oct 13 22:30:30 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, so there's really no pictures support? only text?
Oct 13 22:30:33 <TAsn> not even formatted text?
Oct 13 22:30:37 <TAsn> does it run linux?
Oct 13 22:30:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> afaik we have lores 4bpp images
Oct 13 22:30:58 <TAsn> can someone hack it to run a pdf reader?
Oct 13 22:31:00 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, btw, hear about our software for learing driving and linux situation?)
Oct 13 22:31:20 <lindi-> TAsn: no it does not run linux :)
Oct 13 22:31:25 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, touch screen?
Oct 13 22:31:36 <max_posedon> TAsn, I think its better to convert pdfs to some wiki format
Oct 13 22:31:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: probably a pdf reader is far beyond the cpus grunt
Oct 13 22:31:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: c-ts
Oct 13 22:31:46 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, i c.
Oct 13 22:31:50 <TAsn> max_posedon, GOOD IDEA!
Oct 13 22:31:56 <TAsn> man, maybe I should also buy one :)
Oct 13 22:32:06 <TAsn> 100$ is a bit steep
Oct 13 22:32:10 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: no, i haven't
Oct 13 22:32:12 <TAsn> but that sounds cool.
Oct 13 22:32:14 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer-8: do you know if it has MMU though?
Oct 13 22:32:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> no mmu
Oct 13 22:32:29 <DocScrutinizer-8> afaik
Oct 13 22:32:39 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, you can start here : http://www.opennet.ru/opennews/art.shtml?num=23802
Oct 13 22:32:58 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer-8: there's some code to run mmu on on armv4 but it's probably not used here in the end?
Oct 13 22:33:01 <max_posedon> begging of story about fighting againts proprietary morons
Oct 13 22:33:05 <lindi-> s/run/turn/
Oct 13 22:33:05 <apt> lindi- meant: DocScrutinizer-8: there's some code to turn mmu on on armv4 but it's probably not used here in the end?
Oct 13 22:33:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> maybe you want to /join #openmoko-wikireader ?
Oct 13 22:34:56 <TAsn> night all. ;)
Oct 13 22:35:09 <TAsn> I think I shall stick with my FR for the meanwhile :)
Oct 13 22:35:11 <TAsn> ciao.
Oct 13 22:38:55 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: (reading mail log of that cool free software dev) those proprietary guys are really retarded
Oct 13 22:40:03 <max_posedon> yes, and most funny stuff, that he already visited their office, and all understand that they can't do anything with him
Oct 13 22:40:22 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: hm, not really retarded.
Oct 13 22:40:41 <max_posedon> he didn't accept eula, he don't destribute, and our low allows reverse engenering for personal use)
Oct 13 22:40:42 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: they were smart enough to sell the program cheap so they defeated piracy.
Oct 13 22:41:18 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: they seem to be typical Delhi coders :D
Oct 13 22:41:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> dehli or Delphi? ;-P
Oct 13 22:42:04 <max_posedon> exactly)
Oct 13 22:42:08 <max_posedon> DocScrutinizer, Delphi
Oct 13 22:46:05 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: (cool free software guy) he's a bit too evil i'd say.
Oct 13 22:46:44 <max_posedon> hm, why?)
Oct 13 22:48:14 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: first, he says go seek sympathy from "old woman" who're sitting idling near your house. That's offensive and wrong thing to say. Some other stylistic issues. Also it's not a good thing to publish any mail without _explicit_ permission from the author.
Oct 13 22:49:39 <max_posedon> I have different opinion, mails from some unknown organization (not person) can be published
Oct 13 22:50:06 <DocScrutinizer-8> hmm, I tend to agree with maxim
Oct 13 22:50:52 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, also, he even did commit, which prevents his code working on windows)
Oct 13 22:51:05 <max_posedon> http://tinyurl.com/yk3fy7p
Oct 13 22:51:18 <DocScrutinizer-8> impersonal mails (without human sender) are hard to get a permission anyway
Oct 13 22:51:40 <max_posedon> I was lauging when I saw this commit for a half of hour)
Oct 13 22:52:25 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: have you met him on LVEE
Oct 13 22:52:43 <max_posedon> yes, and freankly speaking I know him far before this
Oct 13 22:53:13 <max_posedon> in small country all `linux-devs` know each other I think
Oct 13 22:53:17 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: (commit) lol
Oct 13 22:54:01 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: is he a friendly guy? Because well it seemed to me he's a bit too rude. Delphi developers are sick, it's not nice talking like that with sick people, you know...
Oct 13 22:54:53 <max_posedon> yes, he is, and btw, he isn't delphi dev
Oct 13 22:55:16 <max_posedon> main feature of Delphi - very easy reverse engenering
Oct 13 22:55:53 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: no, those proprietary coders are delphi guys who are sick
Oct 13 22:56:22 <max_posedon> ah ok, about rude - yes, in this mails he is rude, but, I can understand why
Oct 13 22:56:57 <max_posedon> you know, you wrote some small program(~1 month developing on free time) which can open smth, and
Oct 13 22:57:13 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: yes, yes
Oct 13 22:57:17 <max_posedon> suddenly some company starting face court
Oct 13 22:57:36 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: but those people are sick, like mentally sick. Why do you think it's ok to offend fools?
Oct 13 22:58:59 <max_posedon> offend - isn't ok, I don't like it, but.. I understand why he did so
Oct 13 22:59:57 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: anyway i wish him good luck
Oct 13 23:00:37 <max_posedon> most interesting that its our first "шумиха" around linux
Oct 13 23:03:00 <max_posedon> and yes, looks like all linuxoids here prepearing for court, if it will be
Oct 13 23:03:37 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: it won't be. Those fools lack money and clue for a court.
Oct 13 23:04:00 <max_posedon> its belarus, you don't need money here
Oct 13 23:04:40 <max_posedon> we afraid of that goverment will take newturn's side
Oct 13 23:08:13 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: i think if i lived in belarus i'd either in jail or emigrated
Oct 13 23:08:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> heh, a belarus SCO?
Oct 13 23:09:13 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, I don't know, may be, jail - possible only if you like taking part in politics
Oct 13 23:09:31 <max_posedon> DocScrutinizer-8, not exactly
Oct 13 23:09:52 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: (politics) i would need to do that inevitably, you know i'm a truth-search of kind
Oct 13 23:10:02 <max_posedon> in short, one guy write viewer for database of tests for "learing driving rules"
Oct 13 23:10:16 <max_posedon> and company who create database, very dislike this)
Oct 13 23:10:28 <DocScrutinizer-8> hehehe
Oct 13 23:11:20 <max_posedon> main reason for disliking - they afraid of pirates
Oct 13 23:11:20 <prahal> database is copyrighted , I mean if people have it to feed to the viewer they bought it
Oct 13 23:11:24 <max_posedon> and they did their software 10 years ago! and last 10 years only getting money
Oct 13 23:11:37 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: the guy needed to do that because original viewer of that database didn't work even on windows in vmware.
Oct 13 23:11:42 <max_posedon> they are just lazy move their asses
Oct 13 23:12:34 <DocScrutinizer-8> PaulFertser: so I'd say these are stupid morons and deserve it
Oct 13 23:14:24 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: they do but i didn't like how the cool guy wrote mails to that company. It seemed a bit like laughing at a retard. (And delphi coders are usually retarded indeed)
Oct 13 23:14:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> heh
Oct 13 23:19:02 <tmzt> DocScrutinizer-8: the kernel that android uses has a non-standard way of doing audio and audio routing, in place of alsa
Oct 13 23:19:44 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: I should consider to uninstall kylix then ;-P
Oct 13 23:19:46 <tmzt> on the non android phones (like the windows mobile ones, we still have to play a sound before audio works in calls and I was wondering if that was the case on g1 using the same utilities)
Oct 13 23:20:22 <DocScrutinizer> tmzt: i c
Oct 13 23:21:15 <tmzt> sound in calls works after ATDnumber; or ATA (on voice calls)
Oct 13 23:21:25 <tmzt> so there shouldn't be any other AT commands needed
Oct 13 23:21:45 <tmzt> Gnutoo is trying to adapt a driver from qualcomm's own kernel work (codeaurora.org) for our devices and the g1
Oct 13 23:21:57 <tmzt> so we can use alsa/asoc and standard interfaces to the kernel
Oct 13 23:22:40 <tmzt> that should make fso support easier
Oct 13 23:23:23 <DocScrutinizer> sure it does
Oct 13 23:25:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> PaulFertser: (kylix/delphi) probably a good plan anyway as it never really worked
Oct 13 23:25:19 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer-8: hehe
Oct 13 23:35:16 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: writing compilers as a college diploma work sounds cool
Oct 13 23:35:46 <max_posedon> ? where you find it)
Oct 13 23:36:09 <max_posedon> e.g. on mine 3rd cource we have learning "red dragon book"
Oct 13 23:38:00 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, do you know which book I speak about?
Oct 13 23:38:06 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: heard about it many times
Oct 13 23:38:09 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: never read
Oct 13 23:38:12 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: shame on me
Oct 13 23:38:17 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: (found) in his CV
Oct 13 23:38:26 <max_posedon> oh, yes; its really cool book
Oct 13 23:38:54 <max_posedon> much theory, but after I really understand bison/gcc background
Oct 13 23:39:38 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: for what did he go to their office?
Oct 13 23:39:55 <max_posedon> to speak about this situation
Oct 13 23:40:28 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: are results public enough so you can tell about them?
Oct 13 23:40:45 <max_posedon> yes, I think I said it before
Oct 13 23:41:00 <max_posedon> 1. they decide make their software work under wine
Oct 13 23:41:25 <max_posedon> 2. all understand that EULA not counting because he didn't accept it
Oct 13 23:41:45 <max_posedon> 3. he bought the disk, so he can do any reverse engenering
Oct 13 23:42:01 <max_posedon> 4. he can't prepare end-user product and sell
Oct 13 23:42:09 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: how he could dump the memory and reverse the database format without starting their code and accepting EULA?
Oct 13 23:42:32 <max_posedon> 5. he won't remove sources from site
Oct 13 23:42:34 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: (work with wine) not really a solution anyway
Oct 13 23:42:56 <max_posedon> I don't know, I don't ever run this program
Oct 13 23:43:21 <max_posedon> it isn't solution, this is what they want to do, to prevent linuxoids activity
Oct 13 23:43:29 <max_posedon> but people are not stoppable now)
Oct 13 23:43:53 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: so his visit to the office was absolutely useless and non-informative it seems. 
Oct 13 23:43:59 <max_posedon> some person start thinking about porting e-ink's
Oct 13 23:44:06 <max_posedon> yes, kinda this
Oct 13 23:44:47 <max_posedon> but at least it informative for him - he understand that they can't do anything against him (at least not easy)
Oct 13 23:45:42 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: hm, he understood that after visiting a lawyer, not their office.
Oct 13 23:46:22 <max_posedon> yes, may be, I may be lost in all this info)
Oct 13 23:52:14 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: btw, when i prepared for my driving license exams (and i did it twice, first for a motorbike, then for a car) i didn't use any programs. I just bought a paper variant of questions. It wasn't expensive and was quite convenient.
Oct 13 23:52:53 <max_posedon> you may be don't get main feature of that program, which make it very popular
Oct 13 23:53:04 <prahal> yes but I suppose this is for driving schools
Oct 13 23:53:12 <max_posedon> examinators use this program (some special editions)
Oct 13 23:53:36 <max_posedon> so, near 100% of drivers bought this disk for prepearing
Oct 13 23:54:37 <max_posedon> and as for me, it is ok, disk consts just 4$, but... windows only
Oct 13 23:56:27 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: so?
Oct 13 23:57:02 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: aha, i think i see now
Oct 13 23:57:26 <max_posedon> I just want to say, that this program [idea!] is good but implementation..
Oct 13 23:57:37 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: you don't have a standard set of questions. And we do. Only pictures slightly differ (drawn by various designers) but all the questions are the same.
Oct 13 23:58:07 <max_posedon> hm.. but we have! (at least at exams)
Oct 13 23:58:37 <max_posedon> set of quesions on exams *exactly* same as from this progra,
Oct 13 23:58:39 <max_posedon> program
Oct 13 23:58:39 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: so? I prepared using the book and when i faced a PC on exams i saw almost the same i've seen in my book. What's the benefit?
Oct 13 23:58:53 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: btw, what're you doing at your new job?
Oct 13 23:59:03 <max_posedon> ah, hm... 
Oct 13 23:59:15 <max_posedon> I'm Game Developer now
Oct 13 23:59:32 <max_posedon> you can google for "Order of War"
Oct 13 23:59:56 <max_posedon> mainly doing some server/multipleyer stuff
Oct 14 00:00:15 <max_posedon> windows/linux 50:50
Oct 14 00:00:47 <raster> max_posedon: you're a direct3d fiend now?
Oct 14 00:00:49 <raster> :)
Oct 14 00:00:50 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: sounds interesting enough. Just multi-threading in windows sucks...
Oct 14 00:01:09 <max_posedon> no! no any gui!
Oct 14 00:01:15 <max_posedon> no any threads!
Oct 14 00:01:26 <max_posedon> but I know now GameSpy and Steam SDK's
Oct 14 00:01:58 <PaulFertser> raster: directx part for networking is called DirectPlay ;)
Oct 14 00:02:10 <max_posedon> and know how is hard to port fucking C++ code to linux from windows, when code was writed with opinion that it is ONLY for windows
Oct 14 00:02:28 <max_posedon> and now I know, that wine is suxx, and can tell exactly why)
Oct 14 00:02:29 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: even some system-level stuff?
Oct 14 00:02:51 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, lets name it "backend" yes
Oct 14 00:03:10 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: how is c++ windows code special?
Oct 14 00:03:45 <juri_> paul: MFC.
Oct 14 00:03:53 <max_posedon> msvc sucks, it allows many not-standart constructions
Oct 14 00:03:56 <max_posedon> for example class app:Game { };
Oct 14 00:03:57 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: ah, so it's not about c++ code, it's about loosy coders who don't know c++
Oct 14 00:04:03 <max_posedon> e.g. namespaces in name classes
Oct 14 00:04:12 <PaulFertser> juri_: MFC is not used for backends in games i hope. 
Oct 14 00:04:25 <max_posedon> msvc don't care about typename/template keywords
Oct 14 00:05:02 <max_posedon> mistakes are not very crazy, but when you see 1 million lines of errors)
Oct 14 00:05:50 <PaulFertser> raster: btw, i've read about one of criticism points for D3D vs OpenGL comparision for game devs is that OpenGL silently resorts to doing some expensive operations in software and that is not cool for games. Can you please comment? ;)
Oct 14 00:06:36 <max_posedon> D3D is.. sucks, our game have million stupid bugs because of it
Oct 14 00:06:44 <Blu3> what was g_ether superseded by that changed usb0 to eth1?
Oct 14 00:07:10 <max_posedon> PaulFertser, for example, do you know that d3d dx9 doesn't work correctly on vista?)
Oct 14 00:07:17 <PaulFertser> Blu3: what? g_ether wasn't superseded by anything.
Oct 14 00:07:26 <max_posedon> just doesn't work, just don't implemented correctly
Oct 14 00:07:44 <max_posedon> Blu3, neo start report mac address
Oct 14 00:07:44 <Blu3> hrm, i thought the g_ether module made "usb0"
Oct 14 00:08:06 <max_posedon> your host kernel like name devices ethN when he know mac
Oct 14 00:08:13 <PaulFertser> Blu3: it used to use random MAC, modern distros and bootloaders set fixed MAC that is read from factory nand partition.
Oct 14 00:08:15 <Blu3> right
Oct 14 00:08:29 <raster> PaulFertser: well cant comment well there except...
Oct 14 00:08:40 <raster> 1. you dont know IF what uare doing is hardware accelerated or not
Oct 14 00:08:48 <raster> if its in the OGL api then its going to work
Oct 14 00:08:58 <raster> but if its not hw implemented it falls back to software
Oct 14 00:09:07 <raster> u dont know when or if and cant ask the driver
Oct 14 00:09:21 <raster> so what is 100fps on 1 card is 0.2 fps on another
Oct 14 00:09:33 <raster> the sopftware fallbacks arent great either. just enough to "work"
Oct 14 00:10:07 <raster> another criticism of GL is GLSL - d3d has an intermediate binary language for shaders that ALL drivers support. you compile to this bytecode then the driver converts to native machine instrs
Oct 14 00:10:42 <raster> with GLSL for shaders.. you need to include a full compiler - ie need to parse a c-like lang, convert to token, conver tot asm, optimise THEN convert to machine instrs.
Oct 14 00:10:46 <raster> thats a tonne more work for the vendor
Oct 14 00:10:56 <raster> also in GLES the need for a runtime compiler was dropped
Oct 14 00:11:02 <PaulFertser> raster: so, are those obviously bad for game designers points being addressed?
Oct 14 00:11:11 <raster> you can use an offline (at app compile-time) shader compiler, but this is not standardised
Oct 14 00:11:19 <raster> each vendor may havre a different one that works differently
Oct 14 00:11:27 <raster> and the binary output is dependant per gfx chip
Oct 14 00:11:49 <raster> so u cant use a universal one - u need to literally build a shader compile setup per vendor.
Oct 14 00:11:54 <raster> look at evas's new gle engine
Oct 14 00:11:58 <raster> it does both gl and gles2
Oct 14 00:12:21 <raster> i have some nasty stuff for handling the s3c6410 as that has no runtime glsl compiler. its an offline compiler that is a binary for windows only
Oct 14 00:12:30 <raster> i compile the shaders via wine
Oct 14 00:13:32 <max_posedon> raster, you speak about `PC world` e.g. when developer don't know client's video card. But what if video card is fixed, for example PS3/PSP/Xbox/etc
Oct 14 00:14:25 <PaulFertser> raster: are shaders now written in a C-like language? Oh :-O :)
Oct 14 00:15:21 <PaulFertser> raster: (windows only compiler) is that an issue with unavailable datasheets again?
Oct 14 00:15:38 <raster> max_posedon: i do speak of the pc world. but it matters when writing portable code
Oct 14 00:15:44 <raster> u'd like porting to be minimum work
Oct 14 00:15:56 <raster> not having to write a custom shader build scnario per target
Oct 14 00:16:51 <raster> but as for bad for game designers - yes. its bnad not knowing what is and inst accelrated. you can use a new feature and technique to get some effect workign and make it look much more realistic/nice, but an older different technique thats not quite as nice but looks ok - and u can switch methods based on available hw accel.
Oct 14 00:16:54 <PaulFertser> raster: i thought that shader programs are less portable, somewhat like SSE/3dnow code that is still mostly coded in assembly (in ffmpeg e.g.) for all different variants.
Oct 14 00:17:02 <raster> as for shaders - yes. in opengl they are writtne in GLSL
Oct 14 00:17:32 <raster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLSL
Oct 14 00:17:34 <raster> for example
Oct 14 00:18:39 <PaulFertser> raster: i opened it before you told me. I'm not that dumb
Oct 14 00:19:17 <PaulFertser> Examples there are poor, not showing compiled assembly output for different vendors and card generations.
Oct 14 00:20:00 <max_posedon> portability and shaders, game worls (imho) now is so different that being portable is near impossible
Oct 14 00:20:22 <max_posedon> for example some games on PS3 also using Cell SPU's for graphics calculations
Oct 14 00:20:53 <max_posedon> (Killzone2 for example)
Oct 14 00:21:18 <max_posedon> and I can't realize how such stuff can be written in portable way...
Oct 14 00:21:51 <raster> PaulFertser:  there is no assembly per card. u never see it. its internal
Oct 14 00:22:00 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: you know yesterday my brother came home and we talked about things and stuff and he mentioned Doom 2.
Oct 14 00:22:29 <raster> example. nvidia internaly goes from glsl to asm then asm to native binary. ati radeon goes straight from glsl to binary
Oct 14 00:22:33 <PaulFertser> raster: (assembly) i want to see it. And in fact i think i saw some snippets in radeonhd sources.
Oct 14 00:22:38 <raster> u dont see it
Oct 14 00:22:40 <raster> u dont get to
Oct 14 00:22:46 <raster> there is not standard asm for glsl
Oct 14 00:22:50 <PaulFertser> raster: sure
Oct 14 00:22:53 <raster> thats entirely internal to the vendor
Oct 14 00:23:03 <raster> i happen to have asm shaders in evas
Oct 14 00:23:16 <raster> for the 6410 - i had to as the offline compiler produces crap shaders that are slow
Oct 14 00:23:20 <PaulFertser> raster: one can't write efficiently in a c-like language without having an idea about underlying assembler, that's what you told me before ;)
Oct 14 00:23:20 <raster> i had to optimise themby hand
Oct 14 00:24:05 <raster> max_posedon: in direct3d the intermediate binary lang is portable. all d3d implementations take it and ompile into native. much like a jit.
Oct 14 00:24:11 <raster> its in fact very much like java bytecode
Oct 14 00:24:35 <raster> u compile glsl - style shaders into this protable bytecode shader - and the d3d libs just take than and make native binaries
Oct 14 00:24:51 <raster> it is portable as that is what games use.
Oct 14 00:24:58 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: and that Doom 2 had such a well-thought and exciting gameplay that people could play again and again and still enjoy it. Compare with modern everything-3D crapgames. Doom2 didn't have a single real 3d object, everything were sprites!
Oct 14 00:25:01 <raster> d3d is easier on driver writers to support than ogl
Oct 14 00:25:05 <raster> as a result
Oct 14 00:25:21 <raster> PaulFertser: shaders are not as compex as c
Oct 14 00:25:33 <raster> u dont have pointers. structs are just simple linear blobs of variables
Oct 14 00:25:56 <raster> the compilers invariably dont optimise and your operations are invariably actual shader unit opcodes
Oct 14 00:25:58 <raster> eg
Oct 14 00:26:04 <PaulFertser> raster: i understand. Still understanding how much space you have for registers, what matrix operations are efficient etc etc seems to be beneficial.
Oct 14 00:26:10 <raster> texture2D(tex, coor); is a shader op
Oct 14 00:26:11 <raster> directly
Oct 14 00:26:43 <raster> v = vec4(a, b, c, d) * vec4(x, y, w, z); s a single shader opcode
Oct 14 00:26:54 <raster> well actuallt no its 3
Oct 14 00:27:05 <raster> build vec4 into register, build other vec4 into another
Oct 14 00:27:07 <raster> then a mul
Oct 14 00:27:10 <raster> but its pretty obvious
Oct 14 00:27:47 <PaulFertser> raster: how do you tell it's supported on a particular card? Are shaders fully standardized? If yes, why have different compilers then and why 6410 compiler suck? ;)
Oct 14 00:27:47 <raster> space forregisters is per card
Oct 14 00:27:58 <raster> u generally have a LOT
Oct 14 00:28:12 <raster> shaders are fulls standardised in GL
Oct 14 00:28:30 <raster> in GLES shaders may be runtime or offline
Oct 14 00:28:36 <raster> they all accept GLSL
Oct 14 00:28:40 <PaulFertser> raster: yes but game designers do not like software fallbacks.
Oct 14 00:28:45 <raster> the asm shaders u see for 6410 are compiled form the GLSL
Oct 14 00:28:52 <raster> i just modified them to optimise them
Oct 14 00:29:03 <raster> no they dont
Oct 14 00:29:09 <raster> as i said - shaders are all standardised
Oct 14 00:29:22 <raster> if it is FASt is a matter if it is a software fallback or not
Oct 14 00:29:42 <PaulFertser> raster: i seem to remember some early cards didn't support branching in shaders
Oct 14 00:29:43 <raster> if your card suports dx10 class shaders...then evertything will work in hw
Oct 14 00:29:54 <raster> early cards had custom per-vendor shader things
Oct 14 00:29:57 <raster> that got standardised
Oct 14 00:30:04 <raster> then they only had vertex shaders, no fragment shaders
Oct 14 00:30:05 <raster> i think
Oct 14 00:30:12 <raster> and yes
Oct 14 00:30:17 * PaulFertser is living in the past apparently :)
Oct 14 00:30:28 <raster> thats earlier class
Oct 14 00:30:49 <raster> even so
Oct 14 00:31:03 <raster> branchin in a shader is bad anyway
Oct 14 00:31:10 <raster> shders are nice linear math engines
Oct 14 00:31:14 <raster> they pipeline nicely.
Oct 14 00:31:21 <raster> they are horrible at making decisions
Oct 14 00:33:59 <PaulFertser> No wonder :)
Oct 14 00:34:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> what do you need branches for anyway?
Oct 14 00:34:36 <PaulFertser> Anyway, 4:30am is a bit too late, good night guys :D
Oct 14 00:34:44 <raster> DocScrutinizer-8: u should see some of he fancier shaders
Oct 14 00:34:48 <raster> branches do come into play
Oct 14 00:35:21 <raster> one nasty problem is no way to access exture units by index
Oct 14 00:35:23 <PaulFertser> raster: tomorrow i'll ask you why Doom 2 was so great and almost all modern games suck.
Oct 14 00:35:32 <PaulFertser> ;)
Oct 14 00:35:39 <PaulFertser> TIA
Oct 14 00:35:41 <raster> ie texture2d(tex[i], coord);
Oct 14 00:36:01 <raster> PaulFertser:  doom has little to do with modern gfx in games
Oct 14 00:36:24 <PaulFertser> raster: i know you have some very insightful thought about almost everything in life
Oct 14 00:36:28 <PaulFertser> thoughts
Oct 14 00:37:29 <PaulFertser> raster: and it was modern gfx when it was released.
Oct 14 00:38:01 <raster> when - yes
Oct 14 00:38:14 <raster> but it was a wonderful hack in 3d
Oct 14 00:38:28 <raster> but limited
Oct 14 00:38:34 <raster> and it depends what u mean by "awesome"
Oct 14 00:38:44 <raster> if u mean the game as a whole... thats gameplay
Oct 14 00:38:46 <raster> not gfx
Oct 14 00:38:48 <raster> another topic
Oct 14 00:38:51 <PaulFertser> It was almost true 3D in fact, later the engine was a little bit modified and levels became true 3D.
Oct 14 00:39:09 <raster> tho at the time doom2 was a revolution - these days every game and his dog is fancy 3d because the hw does it all
Oct 14 00:39:24 <raster> dure3d only hit with quake
Oct 14 00:39:37 <raster> doom2 was "horizontal and vertical surfaces only"
Oct 14 00:39:55 <raster> bcause by rendering them in horizontal and vertical spans u can avoid 1 divide per pixel
Oct 14 00:40:06 <raster> u can dived once per line drawn
Oct 14 00:40:51 <PaulFertser> It seems that modern game developers think too much about modern gfx and too little about the gameplay.
Oct 14 00:41:55 <max_posedon> its sometimes hard to design game which hit most people
Oct 14 00:42:40 <PaulFertser> Hollywood moviemakers producing fancy crap is no surprise - it sells well. But i don't see why selling a good gameplay started to be hard. 
Oct 14 00:43:06 <max_posedon> for example, we fit problem, how easy game should be
Oct 14 00:43:33 <max_posedon> as result of preparation for USA market, Russian's dislike company because of `too easy`
Oct 14 00:43:57 <max_posedon> but publisher doesn't allows us make game harder
Oct 14 00:44:30 <max_posedon> e.g. between game designer and gamer, there is always a publisher)
Oct 14 00:44:36 <raster> PaulFertser: i've never been here nor there on gameplay. yes good gameplay is good.. but i like gfx. good gfx make me like a game more than bad gfx
Oct 14 00:44:51 <raster> eg halflife2's engine is awesome
Oct 14 00:45:03 <raster> the unreal2 engine too - totally nuts
Oct 14 00:45:13 <raster> quake4 is fantastic too
Oct 14 00:45:17 <raster> most other game engines tend to suck
Oct 14 00:45:21 <PaulFertser> Oh, btw, one of my other favourite games is "Full Throttle". So hilarious, so fun. I wish there was a modern game like that. I wouldn't care a bit if it's 90s gfx in it.
Oct 14 00:45:21 <raster> one way or another
Oct 14 00:45:31 <playya> i want to play the new monkey island but it isn't working in my wine version yet
Oct 14 00:45:32 <raster> in speed, flexibility, glitches, etc. etc.
Oct 14 00:46:05 <max_posedon> btw, about graphics and xorg stuff, I have a question
Oct 14 00:46:19 <raster> what i dont like about modern games is.. too short
Oct 14 00:46:23 <raster> u finish them so fast
Oct 14 00:46:36 <raster> i want a game i can keep playing and finding new stuff until i am totally bored
Oct 14 00:46:43 <raster> and even then something changes so its interesting again
Oct 14 00:46:50 <raster> WoW even has its limts
Oct 14 00:46:56 <raster> the world is too static.
Oct 14 00:47:04 <playya> Leisure suit larry? tever tried to get 100% there?
Oct 14 00:47:08 <raster> user can have little effect on the world - permanent or transient
Oct 14 00:47:19 <max_posedon> PS3 Linux has big problem, works only in hdtv res, if I attach my monitor (just 1680x1050) I can't use this resolution, only 1920x1050, and as result picture is bad.
Oct 14 00:47:40 <max_posedon> so, is it hard to implement some fake driver, which will work as 1680x1050
Oct 14 00:47:41 <raster> ps3 linux has problems
Oct 14 00:47:45 <raster> ps3's no logner support it
Oct 14 00:47:47 <raster> :)
Oct 14 00:47:51 <PaulFertser> playya: hehe, i played the old dos version where you could type "fuck the bitch" and she'd refuse saying "what kind of woman do you think i am" :D
Oct 14 00:48:08 <playya> hehe.
Oct 14 00:48:10 <max_posedon> which will don some magic transformation, to 1920x1050 exactly such
Oct 14 00:48:22 <playya> i think i have the whole collection somewhere on my hdd
Oct 14 00:48:24 <max_posedon> that after transformation by my monitor picture will be good
Oct 14 00:48:44 <max_posedon> raster, new versions doesn't but old devices still)
Oct 14 00:49:02 <raster> PaulFertser:  if u like that... play GTA
Oct 14 00:49:09 <raster> i've played the psp ones
Oct 14 00:49:11 <raster> and its awesome
Oct 14 00:49:18 <raster> but even it has its limits
Oct 14 00:49:40 <raster> max_posedon:  i know. but slowly old ps3's will be hard to find or impossible.. so its moot for most people
Oct 14 00:50:33 <max_posedon> ok, anyway, it isn't my question, my question about magic algo, and fake screen resolution
Oct 14 00:51:13 <max_posedon> at least some opinion is it possible or not)
Oct 14 00:52:41 <max_posedon> ok, anyway, need to sleep...
Oct 14 00:55:29 <raster> depends where u are doing it
Oct 14 00:55:37 <raster> where is the limitation being enforced?
Oct 14 00:58:55 <max_posedon> I think by hypervizor, or videocard
Oct 14 00:59:08 <max_posedon> anyway from Linux on PS3 I have only very fast fb
Oct 14 00:59:30 <max_posedon> and cell for calculations (his spu's is good enough for graphics too)
Oct 14 01:26:35 <raster> max_posedon: the spu's dont seem bad at all
Oct 14 01:26:40 <raster> but it is a shame u lost the whole gpu too
Oct 14 01:26:51 <raster> but i know i've lost interest in the cell and ps3
Oct 14 01:27:00 <raster> beyond being a dumb gaming console
Oct 14 01:27:04 <raster> maybe one day i
Oct 14 01:27:08 <raster> i'll get one
Oct 14 01:27:21 <raster> but pc games are more fun. a rel kbnd and mouse make for nice games.
Oct 14 01:27:29 <raster> console controllers do not
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 14 02:59:56 2009