**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 28 02:59:58 2009
Oct 28 06:24:40 <Q-Master> morning
Oct 28 06:27:35 <TeLLuS> yes
Oct 28 06:48:50 <mrmoku> Weiss: heh :)
Oct 28 06:49:01 <mrmoku> Weiss: the most simple fixes earn the biggest cakes :)
Oct 28 06:49:34 <rebelThor> mrmoku: does shr/merge build and work correctly atm ?
Oct 28 06:52:56 <mrmoku> rebelThor: it builds correctly
Oct 28 06:53:05 <mrmoku> and has a problem that sqlite is segfaulting
Oct 28 06:53:12 <mrmoku> did not yet try it myself though
Oct 28 06:53:26 <rebelThor> mrmoku: no full rebuilds on the horizon, right?
Oct 28 06:58:26 <mrmoku> rebelThor: two problems... sqlite and groff on the buildhost :|
Oct 28 06:59:42 <rebelThor> mrmoku: the groff one is a nasty one indeed.. what's the purpose of a *-native package, I'm not entirely familiar with it, wouldn't that help somehow? (groff-native) 
Oct 28 07:02:45 <mrmoku> rebelThor: native packages are needed for tools to do the builds
Oct 28 07:02:51 <mrmoku> for example edje_cc
Oct 28 07:02:59 <mrmoku> you need it in a native package
Oct 28 07:03:05 <mrmoku> as the arm one won't run on the buildhost
Oct 28 07:03:15 <mrmoku> that's why you need a edje-native package
Oct 28 07:04:12 <rebelThor> so basically, any -native package is build for the buildhost to run, and the normal ones are built for the arm architecture
Oct 28 07:05:43 <rebelThor> so we'd need to build a groff-native, and add some patches so the failing packets would use our native one instead of the system's one
Oct 28 07:06:26 <mrmoku> rebelThor: exactly
Oct 28 07:06:40 <mrmoku> it automatically is using the native one
Oct 28 07:09:33 <mrmoku> bbiab
Oct 28 07:56:12 <PaulFertser> Hehe, the part i suspected in extreme inefficiency of the BL converter is indeed guilty. "replaced L1704 with a TDK VLF3012AT @ 2.2uH ... the efficiency of the conversion jumped to 80%"
Oct 28 08:05:36 <spaetz> mrmoku|away: compiling eject fails as the source is not available anymore... :-(
Oct 28 08:30:38 <PaulFertser> max_posedon: (n810) very clueful community members experienced the bug and couldn't determine if it's software or hardware because of blackbox nature of some parts of stack. Nokia engineers refused to provide _any_ additional debug information claiming "we checked it so we're sure it's bug-free". Ask your HW questions elsewhere (nokia customer care, what a wonderful advice).
Oct 28 08:34:24 <max_posedon> this is how big company works...
Oct 28 08:34:48 <PaulFertser> This is how big companies suck.
Oct 28 08:34:56 <PaulFertser> And infuriate their customers.
Oct 28 08:35:31 <PaulFertser> Moreover i can't see a reason why anyone from SW department didn't spend 1 hour of his spare time to expose the info he was asked for.
Oct 28 08:37:14 <PaulFertser> And claiming some code is bugfree is highly unprofessional (unless you're Knuth).
Oct 28 08:53:23 <mrmoku> spaetz: hmm :(
Oct 28 08:53:39 <spaetz> jsut discussing on #oe
Oct 28 08:54:04 <spaetz> we can't revert to the latest available upstrem versino which is on iblio.org as that is an older one.
Oct 28 08:54:27 <spaetz> and I cannot jsut change the SRCURI to a debian mirror as they have different md5 sums
Oct 28 08:54:40 <mrmoku> bad
Oct 28 08:54:56 <Heinervdm> host that file at sources.shr-project.org
Oct 28 08:55:01 <mrmoku> how does it get pulled in? as I don't think we actually need it :)
Oct 28 08:55:24 <spaetz> mrmoku: there is a whole bunch of crap being pulled in and compiled as DEPENDS
Oct 28 08:55:35 <spaetz> I don't think we need "eject" on an FR, no :)
Oct 28 08:55:45 <spaetz> but then we also compile cups and don't need it :)
Oct 28 08:56:03 <spaetz> let me check the dependency graph
Oct 28 08:56:38 <spaetz> "hal" -> "eject"
Oct 28 08:56:46 <Heinervdm> eject 2.1.5 ?
Oct 28 08:57:18 <spaetz> yep, that is the .bb file but the latest upstream source on ibiblio is now 2.1.0 as geocities went away
Oct 28 08:57:23 <spaetz> meeting
Oct 28 08:57:59 <Heinervdm> i have that file, so we can put it on sources.shr-project.org until the recipe is fixed upstream
Oct 28 08:58:52 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: ok, will do
Oct 28 08:58:56 <mrmoku> think I should have it too
Oct 28 09:00:28 <mrmoku> there it is
Oct 28 09:00:37 <mrmoku> spaetzBBL: if you're back retry
Oct 28 09:09:37 <Weiss> Heinervdm: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=xf86-video-glamo.git;a=commitdiff;h=de692805de0ddbaac9a50734f89e0f6cb99d6846
Oct 28 09:10:08 <Heinervdm> Weiss: nice :)
Oct 28 09:10:32 <Weiss> do I still get cake if it was that simple?
Oct 28 09:10:59 <Heinervdm> :)
Oct 28 09:16:18 <mrmoku> raster: ping (and no, I won't accuse you of writing inefficient, unoptimized and crapy code) :P
Oct 28 09:17:52 <raster> pong
Oct 28 09:17:53 <raster> :)
Oct 28 09:18:52 <mrmoku> raster: if you would have to do something like one of the good old light switches
Oct 28 09:19:00 <mrmoku> actually a vertical toggle
Oct 28 09:19:05 <mrmoku> how would you do that? 
Oct 28 09:20:12 <raster> in edje?
Oct 28 09:20:23 <mrmoku> well elementary + edje somehow
Oct 28 09:20:40 <mrmoku> http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/attachment/wiki/phoneui/incall.jpg
Oct 28 09:20:46 <mrmoku> the one on the left side
Oct 28 09:20:51 <mrmoku> to start/hangup a call
Oct 28 09:21:06 <raster> u chould make a style for the toggles
Oct 28 09:21:12 <raster> they are meant for this kind of stuff
Oct 28 09:21:17 <raster> i only did a horiz one
Oct 28 09:21:17 <spaetz> back from meeting, will retry.
Oct 28 09:21:33 <mrmoku> raster: I can make vertical toggles via style?
Oct 28 09:21:49 * spaetz slaps raster for saying "if you are smart you don't develop for the FR ;-)"
Oct 28 09:21:49 <mrmoku> that would be fine :)
Oct 28 09:22:12 <spaetz> sorry you had to endure that crappy flamewar, but I think you have a thick skin...
Oct 28 09:22:32 <JesusMcCloud> mrmoku: i think the question is should you make it or is raster going to include vertical toggles into elm by default
Oct 28 09:23:20 <raster> mrmoku:  yup. add a new style of your own
Oct 28 09:23:29 <raster> if its app specirfic - add it as an "extension" theme file
Oct 28 09:23:55 <raster> as such the toggles dont define HOW to toggle - just that u can and toggled states have labels
Oct 28 09:24:15 <mrmoku> raster: ok, will try. thanks :)
Oct 28 09:24:22 <JesusMcCloud> raster, but vert toggles couzld be included by default?! or do you think there is no need (i am askign coause i dont know)
Oct 28 09:24:46 <raster> spaetz:  where did i say that? i said if you are smart.. you plan for the FUTURE. you dont build just for today and paint yourself into a corner and come next generation hw.. you have to start again.
Oct 28 09:24:53 <raster> :)
Oct 28 09:25:20 <JesusMcCloud> raster: another question since you're here: what's up with ELM_WIN_DESKTOP? i cannot get it to work...
Oct 28 09:25:45 <raster> JesusMcCloud: tthey could be, but i cant go making a style for every man and his app - i designed it to be extensible so anyone can add them. they can be sucked back into the default at some point in the future
Oct 28 09:25:46 <raster> :)
Oct 28 09:26:25 <JesusMcCloud> raster: ok so no need until now for vert. toggles...
Oct 28 09:26:34 <raster> JesusMcCloud: as a type of window?
Oct 28 09:26:43 <raster> it just sets netwm type
Oct 28 09:26:45 <raster> nothing else
Oct 28 09:26:45 <JesusMcCloud> raster: YUP
Oct 28 09:26:52 <raster>       case ELM_WIN_DESKTOP:
Oct 28 09:26:52 <raster>          ecore_x_netwm_window_type_set(win->xwin, ECORE_X_WINDOW_TYPE_DESKTOP);
Oct 28 09:27:09 <raster> what are u trying to do?
Oct 28 09:27:43 <JesusMcCloud> raster, i saw something liek that in the sources, but settign type to ELM_WIN_DESKTOP gives me error msgs and the apps doesnt start...
Oct 28 09:28:15 <JesusMcCloud> raster: i was just playing around with an existing program to replace illume launcher
Oct 28 09:29:22 <JesusMcCloud> raster: do you know python? if so try typing ELM_WIN_DESKTOP as window type into the python promt.. you'll see what erro i mean. or try to compile a c program with ELM_WIN_DESKTOP
Oct 28 09:32:42 <raster> what error messages?
Oct 28 09:32:57 <raster> oooh python!
Oct 28 09:33:25 <raster> when you leave the wonderfully soft and fluffy world of c... i cease to know what is happening.
Oct 28 09:33:30 <raster> elementary doesnt much care
Oct 28 09:33:34 <raster> it just stored type
Oct 28 09:33:35 <JesusMcCloud> raster, i dont remember and i cannot try atm since i am at the university, i'll ping you as soon as i'm home and reproduced it
Oct 28 09:33:38 <raster>    win->type = type;
Oct 28 09:33:52 <raster> then on actual setting of x properties
Oct 28 09:33:59 <raster>    switch (win->type)
Oct 28 09:33:59 <raster>      {
Oct 28 09:33:59 <raster>       case ELM_WIN_BASIC:
Oct 28 09:34:00 <raster> ...
Oct 28 09:34:01 <JesusMcCloud> raster, i klnow what it is supposed to do... i just didn get it to work...
Oct 28 09:34:09 <raster> the defaulty case is even blank - so it wont bitch
Oct 28 09:34:24 <raster> but elementary doesnt have a problme with it
Oct 28 09:34:29 <raster> you may want to look at bindings
Oct 28 09:35:31 <JesusMcCloud> raster, i will start form scratch, with the elm examples from e17 trac in C and if it's still bitching i'll annoy< you again
Oct 28 09:37:46 <raster> sure
Oct 28 09:37:49 <raster> in c .. it will work
Oct 28 09:38:23 <spaetz> mrmoku: retrying
Oct 28 09:38:26 <JesusMcCloud> raster, so python bindings must be from like medieval times?
Oct 28 09:38:42 <spaetz> #oe proposed to change the SRC_URI of eject to the gentoo sources directory
Oct 28 09:40:11 <JesusMcCloud> gtg lecture...
Oct 28 09:42:32 <raster> jes: not sure
Oct 28 09:46:30 <raster> mrmoku: btw.. i love the mockup :)
Oct 28 09:46:45 <raster> seriously.. someone shoudl do a "crayon" or "pencil" theme
Oct 28 09:46:56 * JesusMcCloud needs to learn how to read a watch
Oct 28 09:47:01 <raster> it just has to be black and white with simple rough drawn outlines like u have
Oct 28 09:47:07 <spaetz> aka, a simple theme without transparencies?
Oct 28 09:50:36 <spaetz> Weiss: isn't inserting 2 usleep(15000); not a bit tough? :)
Oct 28 09:50:44 <spaetz> or is it no time-critical path?
Oct 28 09:51:28 <spaetz> and why is that patch called "reduce exessive waiting times?"
Oct 28 09:51:45 <Weiss> spaetz: better to be cautious with Glamo, as we well know..
Oct 28 09:52:08 <Weiss> the previous wait was a whole second either side, which is where the resume delay was coming from
Oct 28 09:52:09 <spaetz> heh, how fast is resume with that?
Oct 28 09:52:28 <Weiss> a bit under 2s I think (KMS is a little bit snappier still)
Oct 28 09:52:46 <Weiss> (because KMS cheats)
Oct 28 09:52:46 <spaetz> ahh exchanging sleep with usleep! no I see it...
Oct 28 09:52:49 <mrmoku> raster: yes, the mockup is nice :) not from me though...
Oct 28 09:53:02 <mrmoku> raster: but I want to have that as SHR active call screen :)
Oct 28 09:53:05 <spaetz> I was assuming you just changed 1->15000 and was really puzzled
Oct 28 09:53:10 * spaetz gets a coffee
Oct 28 09:53:11 <raster> mrmoku:  looks decent to me
Oct 28 09:53:13 <Heinervdm> Weiss: can you commit that to non-kms too? or are we already using this branche?
Oct 28 09:53:42 <Weiss> Heinervdm: I think you're already on the KMS (i.e. "dual driver") branch, but I'll cherry-pick it just in case..
Oct 28 09:54:16 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: and what if you call a hotline and they say, press 2 to come to this, and press 3 to come to this, how do you do this?
Oct 28 09:54:50 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: you touch the keypad button on bottom left and the keypad will open :)
Oct 28 09:54:54 <mrmoku> (just like it is now)
Oct 28 09:55:05 <Heinervdm> ok :)
Oct 28 09:56:30 <Weiss> Heinervdm: actually, I may just merge KMS back into master..
Oct 28 09:56:45 <Weiss> unless anyone's come across problems doing that without KMS?
Oct 28 09:56:59 <Weiss> (I'm running KMS driver+non-KMS kernel at the moment)
Oct 28 09:57:45 <Heinervdm> Weiss: i haven't heared about problems
Oct 28 09:57:59 <JesusMcCloud> gremlin attack gtg
Oct 28 09:58:30 <joerg_42> mrmoku: I have quite some doubts bout why we need that "keypad" button anyway
Oct 28 09:59:16 <joerg_42> rather than always showing keypad
Oct 28 10:04:49 <mrmoku> joerg_42: did you take a look at the call screen draft?
Oct 28 10:04:58 <joerg_42> no
Oct 28 10:05:02 <mrmoku> http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/attachment/wiki/phoneui/incall.jpg
Oct 28 10:07:30 <spaetz> nice. Why are the contacts needed in there?
Oct 28 10:07:59 <spaetz> options is for "Save current number as contact", I guess
Oct 28 10:08:41 <mrmoku> spaetz: it is explained in http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/phoneui
Oct 28 10:08:48 <mrmoku> though I'm not sure about that button yet...
Oct 28 10:12:35 <joerg_42> I wonder how to initiate a second call. Or more generally spoken, how to hit green button several times
Oct 28 10:13:09 <spaetz> joerg_42: it's a slider. So when you are in a call,it's on the green side, I'd expect
Oct 28 10:13:32 <joerg_42> spaetz: that's my concern
Oct 28 10:13:32 <spaetz> so no multiple calls from that screen.
Oct 28 10:14:18 <joerg_42> where are call details displayed? (duration, contact details, etc)?
Oct 28 10:15:46 <raster> joerg_42:  docz!
Oct 28 10:16:16 <joerg_42> the good thing though: with ython and FSO it should be easy like milk to build your own customized dialer
Oct 28 10:16:37 <joerg_42> raster: huh? hi! heh...
Oct 28 10:17:10 <raster> hey hey
Oct 28 10:17:28 <spaetz> joerg_42: I'd be already happy to have that screen, improving stuff incrementally (call details) can come later IMHO. Let's get a working phone, then make it fancy :)
Oct 28 10:18:27 <joerg_42> I thought we *got* a "working phone" - for that purpose
Oct 28 10:20:06 <joerg_42> opting for e.g. a slider here would somewhat create a foundation specs flaw that kinda makes it hard or impossible to "improve incrementally"
Oct 28 10:25:31 <Heinervdm> i made LIBC configureable in shr buildtree, will now build an image with glibc again...
Oct 28 10:26:02 <DocScrutinizer-8> raster: made yourself comfortable with maemo SDK? :-)
Oct 28 10:26:34 <raster> DocScrutinizer-8: nup.
Oct 28 10:26:43 <raster> i dont see why i need to. its too simple :)
Oct 28 10:27:07 <raster> i just slapped mer 0.16 testing on my smartq 5
Oct 28 10:27:11 <raster> works like a charm
Oct 28 10:27:19 <DocScrutinizer-8> simple like in "just the basic things there"?
Oct 28 10:27:49 <raster> and e on it saves about 27m of ram
Oct 28 10:27:56 <raster> (over matchbox+gtk etc.)
Oct 28 10:28:00 <raster> an d runs nicely
Oct 28 10:28:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> whatever d is
Oct 28 10:28:40 <DocScrutinizer-8> might be ++c or --e
Oct 28 10:29:02 <raster> even thosits only a s3c6410@532mhz
Oct 28 10:29:02 <DocScrutinizer-8> or sth totally different ;-P
Oct 28 10:29:08 <raster> "and runs nicely" :)
Oct 28 10:29:13 <raster> :-P
Oct 28 10:29:50 <raster> remember - what gta03/4 should have been
Oct 28 10:30:05 <raster> (ie whatever thet next gen device was ever managing to be called)
Oct 28 10:30:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> yup
Oct 28 10:32:08 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: cookie for you, to simply switch eglibc to glibc and the other way around
Oct 28 10:32:39 <m0nt0> hi all, trying to compile shr-u without success, it fails building libXfont with this error: 
Oct 28 10:32:39 <m0nt0> /usr/bin/xmlto -m ./doc/fontlib.xsl -o doc txt ./doc/fontlib.xml
Oct 28 10:32:39 <m0nt0> No way to convert HTML to text found.
Oct 28 10:32:44 <m0nt0> any hint?
Oct 28 10:32:53 <panicking> Hi DocScrutinizer-8 
Oct 28 10:34:00 <panicking> I'm working on frequency scaling of the neo
Oct 28 10:34:10 <panicking> is it a safe combination for 500Mhz
Oct 28 10:34:14 <panicking> frequency
Oct 28 10:34:43 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: have to eat that cookie later... have to go now
Oct 28 10:34:44 <lindi-> panicking: have you been able to get serial ports work if you compile with frequency scaling?
Oct 28 10:34:46 <mrmoku> do some daywork :(
Oct 28 10:34:56 <mrmoku> bbl
Oct 28 10:34:56 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: no problem
Oct 28 10:36:19 <panicking> lindi-, I'm involved in a project that use resource reservation
Oct 28 10:36:36 <panicking> now I'm trying to check if the patches send on the mailing list
Oct 28 10:36:38 <panicking> work
Oct 28 10:37:01 <lindi-> panicking: the patches that I tested work but serial port does not work with them
Oct 28 10:37:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> lindi-: aiui there's simply no way to get that done, without layering violations. We need to flowctl stop all serial lines prior to cpuclk tweaking
Oct 28 10:37:30 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer-8: but serial ports stop working even if you don't even change the frequency
Oct 28 10:37:32 <Heinervdm> m0nt0: it seems that it uses xmlto from your host, either fix the recipe, that it uses xmlto from tree or install lynx, w3m or links on your host
Oct 28 10:37:59 <DocScrutinizer-8> lindi-: errr, huh
Oct 28 10:38:14 <m0nt0> Heinervdm, thanks
Oct 28 10:40:02 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer-8: just compiling with the patches break it
Oct 28 10:40:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> possibly
Oct 28 10:40:15 <Heinervdm> My Pre is on the last few km to me :)
Oct 28 10:40:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> why should I care?
Oct 28 10:40:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> it for sure fails on first state change anyway
Oct 28 10:41:47 <DocScrutinizer-8> or on 74th, for that. As it's a race tweem serial data stream and clockchange
Oct 28 10:41:49 <panicking> lindi-, do you try the userspace governator
Oct 28 10:41:51 <panicking> ?
Oct 28 10:41:57 <panicking> I can't set 200000 freq
Oct 28 10:43:10 <lindi-> panicking: see my emails, it's been almost 5 months  :)
Oct 28 10:43:33 <panicking> can you give me the pointer of that
Oct 28 10:43:34 <panicking> ?
Oct 28 10:43:35 <panicking> mail
Oct 28 10:45:15 <mickey|office> Heinervdm: congrats!
Oct 28 10:45:18 <mickey|office> morning folks, btw.
Oct 28 10:45:49 <Heinervdm> I hope it will arrive in the next hour, else i'm not at home anymore..
Oct 28 10:46:11 <lindi-> panicking: 'cpufreq patches seem to save ~30 mA (Re: [RFC 0/3] CPU frequency scaling for GTA02)' and others I've sent to kernel@
Oct 28 10:46:20 <lindi-> panicking: 16 Jun
Oct 28 10:47:01 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'm not sure it's actually true, but at least it seems like all the projects started >6month ago and then either finished or abandoned, now are retarted from scratch out of a mere ignorance of history. That's rather discouraging to anybody hoping for real progress
Oct 28 10:47:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> s/retarded/restarted/ 
Oct 28 10:48:20 <panicking> lindi-, thanks
Oct 28 10:48:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> s/retarted/restarted/ 
Oct 28 10:51:29 <m0nt0> and here we are again :D same old vala-dbus-binding-tool-native isn't configuring, it can't find gee package (and i also can't find it)
Oct 28 10:52:18 <panicking> lindi-, the problem is that there is a table
Oct 28 10:52:23 <panicking> but I can use only 100000 and 200000
Oct 28 10:52:31 <panicking> 400000
Oct 28 10:52:32 <panicking> sorry
Oct 28 10:52:35 <lindi-> panicking: that is ok for me.
Oct 28 10:52:46 <lindi-> panicking: but i want my serial ports to work before it can be any good :)
Oct 28 10:52:51 <mickey|office> ** Message: codes.vala:67: service center: +491770610000
Oct 28 10:52:51 <mickey|office> ** Message: codes.vala:68: oaddr: +491772616464
Oct 28 10:52:51 <mickey|office> ** Message: codes.vala:69: scts: 8/12/18 20:7:58 +4
Oct 28 10:52:51 <mickey|office> ** Message: codes.vala:82: text: 'Keule...'
Oct 28 10:52:51 <panicking> ok
Oct 28 10:52:56 <lindi-> panicking: if you fix serial ports I can start testing
Oct 28 10:52:58 * mickey|office dances a jig
Oct 28 10:53:17 <panicking> ok, but I would like to know from DocScrutinizer-8 if it possible to use 500Mhz
Oct 28 10:53:21 <panicking> frequenct
Oct 28 10:53:28 <panicking> if there is a stable combination
Oct 28 10:53:31 <panicking> in his opinion
Oct 28 10:54:02 <Heinervdm> m0nt0: so you're trying to compile shr/import
Oct 28 10:54:33 <Heinervdm> m0nt0: we hope shr/import will be obsolete since today, because of that it's not in a buildable state...
Oct 28 10:54:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> iirc you have only very unfortunate scaling factors for RAM on cpuclk=500. So system probably slower than on 400
Oct 28 10:54:48 <m0nt0> Heinervdm, just downloaded shr make file, make setup, make update, cd shr-unstable, make image
Oct 28 10:54:58 <alphaone> congrats mickey|office 
Oct 28 10:55:10 <Heinervdm> m0nt0: was a bad timing ;)
Oct 28 10:55:11 <panicking> How can I find the possible combination for different frequency
Oct 28 10:55:13 <panicking> on neo
Oct 28 10:55:14 <panicking> ?
Oct 28 10:55:20 <alphaone> mickey|office: No "Bitfummelei" yet, though?
Oct 28 10:55:20 <mickey|office> alphaone: you will not guess which code i stole for that to achieve :D
Oct 28 10:55:25 <m0nt0> uff, i'm always so lucky!
Oct 28 10:55:28 <m0nt0> :D
Oct 28 10:55:36 <alphaone> mickey|office: tell me!
Oct 28 10:55:42 <mickey|office> alphaone: Hint #1
Oct 28 10:55:46 <m0nt0> Heinervdm, when i can try again in your opinion?
Oct 28 10:55:46 <mickey|office> Embrace your enemies
Oct 28 10:55:49 <mickey|office> Hint #2
Oct 28 10:55:53 <alphaone> of
Oct 28 10:55:54 <mickey|office> Vala makes it soooo elegant to include C code
Oct 28 10:55:55 <alphaone> on
Oct 28 10:55:58 <alphaone> oi
Oct 28 10:56:01 <alphaone> -i
Oct 28 10:56:01 <mickey|office> YEAH!
Oct 28 10:56:03 <mickey|office> and price goes to alphaone 
Oct 28 10:56:09 <Heinervdm> m0nt0: we want to switch from shr/import to shr/merge, and it will hopefully done today
Oct 28 10:56:09 <mickey|office> :)
Oct 28 10:56:23 <alphaone> heh
Oct 28 10:56:25 <alphaone> nice
Oct 28 10:56:33 <mickey|office> they have really solid code for all that scary stuff
Oct 28 10:56:36 <m0nt0> ok, so i'll wait :D
Oct 28 10:56:40 <m0nt0> thanks a lot
Oct 28 10:56:46 <mickey|office> "reuse" :)
Oct 28 10:56:53 <Heinervdm> m0nt0: we experienced a problem with sqlite yesterday, because of taht we haven't switched
Oct 28 10:57:27 <m0nt0> Heinervdm, no problem, i'll keep trying until i'll get my compiled shr image :D
Oct 28 10:57:30 <Heinervdm> m0nt0: i'm building a new image now, this will be finished in 10 hours
Oct 28 10:57:38 <mickey|office> alphaone: so, sms pdu mode will be taken from your list of tasks. i still rely on you for ublox though :)
Oct 28 10:58:00 <alphaone> mickey|office: heh, okay.
Oct 28 10:59:04 <alphaone> I hope I'll be more or less finished with my work project soon
Oct 28 10:59:20 <alphaone> actually that's soon /tm)
Oct 28 10:59:22 <alphaone> (tm)
Oct 28 10:59:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> mentioning ublox... there seems to be flaws
Oct 28 11:00:09 <alphaone> what kind of?
Oct 28 11:00:18 <DocScrutinizer-8> no diff on "deleteing gps data", always takes some 150sec for TTFF
Oct 28 11:00:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> on suboptimal signal though
Oct 28 11:01:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> 28..33 S/N
Oct 28 11:01:48 <alphaone> hmm
Oct 28 11:01:48 <alphaone> that's weird
Oct 28 11:01:56 <alphaone> Time is right, though?
Oct 28 11:01:56 <DocScrutinizer-8> yep
Oct 28 11:02:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> yes
Oct 28 11:02:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> also time shouldn't have any impact if off <1h
Oct 28 11:03:42 <alphaone> yeah
Oct 28 11:03:56 <alphaone> at least not that big
Oct 28 11:04:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> noty bene, that's for a off-time of some 10 sec
Oct 28 11:04:17 <alphaone> 45sec is normal even for a cold start
Oct 28 11:04:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> yep
Oct 28 11:04:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> I can get 45 sec on good clear sky view
Oct 28 11:04:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> occasionally
Oct 28 11:05:31 <DocScrutinizer-8> still I don't understand why this figure does not change when deleting agps data
Oct 28 11:08:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> I might see some decay in performance due to / on uSD, though that seems to be rather negligable on A7
Oct 28 11:08:20 <alphaone> If you have agps data it should get better
Oct 28 11:08:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> yes
Oct 28 11:08:32 <alphaone> down to maybe 15-20 seconds
Oct 28 11:08:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's my point
Oct 28 11:08:57 <alphaone> Are you running an old image?
Oct 28 11:09:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'm not concerned about absolute TTFF, but rather about unlogical behaviour on deleting AGPS data
Oct 28 11:09:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: shr-u0808 with some upgrades
Oct 28 11:12:20 <alphaone> 0808?
Oct 28 11:12:51 <alphaone> Well, it seems that it doesn't make any difference whether you have agps data or not
Oct 28 11:14:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> yep
Oct 28 11:14:12 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's my point
Oct 28 11:14:49 <alphaone> There was some bug that got fixed (a while ago)
Oct 28 11:15:03 <alphaone> Where ephemeris upload was buggy
Oct 28 11:15:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> just tested next to window: on S/N 41..46 TTFF<30sec (felt durationn)
Oct 28 11:15:22 <DocScrutinizer-8> (bug) I know
Oct 28 11:19:21 <alphaone> After that bug got fixed I really haven't had any problems with GPS anymore..
Oct 28 11:19:53 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: If you install zhone it will tell you ttff as reported by the chip in the gps tab
Oct 28 11:20:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: install zhone on shr-u? o.O
Oct 28 11:21:20 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: Should be possible
Oct 28 11:21:27 <alphaone> Don't need to autostart it
Oct 28 11:21:51 <alphaone> Unfortunately none of us ever got around to a standalone GPS debug application
Oct 28 11:21:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> anyway, what could I learn fro it?
Oct 28 11:23:31 <DocScrutinizer-8> maybe the "delete AGPS data" button in shr-settings is just a fake?
Oct 28 11:24:02 <lindi-> strace
Oct 28 11:24:18 <DocScrutinizer-8> hmpf
Oct 28 11:24:23 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: :-)
Oct 28 11:24:45 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: You could see if the chip reports it has almanac/ephimeris
Oct 28 11:24:52 <alphaone> for the given SV
Oct 28 11:25:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'd rather "rm fsckng-agpspickle.foo"
Oct 28 11:25:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> no idea yet where it's located though
Oct 28 11:26:22 <DocScrutinizer-8> as I didn't dive into all that yet. Just 20min of mere user-interface testing and compare
Oct 28 11:28:15 <alphaone> /etc/freesmartphone/persist/ogpsd/ or something like that
Oct 28 11:33:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> "delete AGPS data" -> file /etc/free*/p*/ogpsd.pickle gone
Oct 28 11:33:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> now going to test for TTFF
Oct 28 11:34:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> TTFF <25sec on C/N>43
Oct 28 11:35:25 <DocScrutinizer-8> not exactly a bug to complain about ;-P
Oct 28 11:35:34 <DocScrutinizer-8> still *strange*
Oct 28 11:37:24 * DocScrutinizer-8 wonders if pickle is buffered somewhere - e.g. in agps-driver
Oct 28 11:37:43 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: I'm not sure when ogpsd reads the pickle file
Oct 28 11:37:56 <DocScrutinizer-8> exactly
Oct 28 11:37:58 <alphaone> yeah, I assume so
Oct 28 11:38:12 <alphaone> try delete reboot retest
Oct 28 11:38:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> already in progress ;-P
Oct 28 11:39:14 <alphaone> :-)
Oct 28 11:39:21 <alphaone> You're way ahead of me
Oct 28 11:39:59 <}mat> hi, i need some help concerning the debug board. I followed the instructions from the wiki, but when I set "console to serial" in NOR uboot and then try to connect to it with "screen /dev/ttyUSB0" everthing I get is a completely black window. ideas?
Oct 28 11:41:22 <alphaone> }mat: Try screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200
Oct 28 11:44:07 <}mat> alphaone: thanks, seems to work
Oct 28 11:44:20 <alphaone> np
Oct 28 11:44:47 <alphaone> }mat: That's the baud rate you need to set in case you were wondering
Oct 28 11:45:44 <}mat> yeah reconiced it from the kernel command line
Oct 28 11:45:59 <DocScrutinizer-8> WTF? rm *.pickle; reboot; ls *.pickle -> ressurected o.O
Oct 28 11:46:37 <DocScrutinizer-8> 3min ago
Oct 28 11:46:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> so during reboot
Oct 28 11:48:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: seems your agps code missing a condition to write out/update pickle on detecting a good fix from ublox *only*
Oct 28 11:48:24 <alphaone> what do you mean?
Oct 28 11:49:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> agps drive MUST NOT write a pickle file as long as ublox has not acquired a 2D-fix
Oct 28 11:50:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> quite obvious, eh? ;-)
Oct 28 11:51:48 <alphaone> actually, no
Oct 28 11:52:05 <alphaone> You can still save the almanac and ephimeris you got
Oct 28 11:53:25 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, during boot I don't see any almanac/ephem as well that's worth storing it - no?
Oct 28 11:53:50 <DocScrutinizer-8> still for some strange reason there's a new pickle created during boot
Oct 28 11:54:38 <DocScrutinizer-8> I  guess that's bogus data in there, at least if there's no flag inside the file signaling it's in fact bogus data
Oct 28 11:55:02 <alphaone>         self.aidingData = persist.get( "ogpsd", "aidingdata" )
Oct 28 11:55:02 <alphaone>         if self.aidingData is None:
Oct 28 11:55:02 <alphaone>             self.aidingData = { "almanac": {}, "ephemeris": {}, "position": {}, "hui": {} }
Oct 28 11:55:21 <alphaone> # Load aiding data and only if that succeeds have the GPS chip ask for it
Oct 28 11:56:17 <alphaone> we only load the last known position if we had one
Oct 28 11:56:34 <alphaone> We don't load ephimeris or almanac if we don't have any
Oct 28 11:56:37 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: without context that code tells me nothing except there's actually NOT the *write* to file inside that "if"
Oct 28 11:56:59 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: That happens on shutdown
Oct 28 11:57:04 <alphaone> The sync to file
Oct 28 11:57:28 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: that's BAD
Oct 28 11:57:56 <alphaone> We don't load bogus data on start. Shouldn't, anyway
Oct 28 11:58:00 <DocScrutinizer-8> 1) I can't delete the pickle file ;-)
Oct 28 11:58:14 <alphaone> shutdown of gps, not the device
Oct 28 11:58:26 <alphaone> Yeah, I agree it's suboptimal
Oct 28 11:58:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> 2) we don't sync then if hard powerdown
Oct 28 11:58:35 <alphaone> ack
Oct 28 11:58:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> 3) we don't have most recent pickle in file any arbitrary time
Oct 28 12:00:00 <alphaone> I can ask shoragan if there's any particular reason for it being this way
Oct 28 12:00:01 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: (sync on gps shutdown). So where is that pickle file from then. after reboot?
Oct 28 12:00:33 <DocScrutinizer-8> for sure I shut down gps *prior* tto deleting the pickle file
Oct 28 12:00:35 <alphaone> Stupid resource system starts and stops all resources once on boot (framework start)
Oct 28 12:00:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's what I say
Oct 28 12:00:58 <alphaone> Mickey once said that was necessary for weird reasons I didn't understand entirely
Oct 28 12:00:59 <DocScrutinizer-8> and we got no ephem, alm then
Oct 28 12:01:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> to save
Oct 28 12:01:07 <DocScrutinizer-8> to pickle
Oct 28 12:01:13 <alphaone> Something about hw and /sys files being out of sync?
Oct 28 12:01:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> so that's BUG
Oct 28 12:01:32 <alphaone> Nah, no bug
Oct 28 12:01:52 <alphaone> the pickle file just contains an empty map.
Oct 28 12:02:08 <DocScrutinizer-8> ogpsd MUST NOT store any bogus data to pickle file
Oct 28 12:02:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> no?
Oct 28 12:02:21 <alphaone> the pickle file basically contains the METADATA at that point
Oct 28 12:02:37 <alphaone> like "here goes ephimeris and it's empty"
Oct 28 12:02:43 <DocScrutinizer-8> or is that "empty map" considered the "bogus" flag I mentioned above?
Oct 28 12:02:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> ahh ok
Oct 28 12:02:54 <alphaone> "here goes position and it's unknown"
Oct 28 12:03:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> so let me actually test TTFF with that allegedly zero  pickle I got now
Oct 28 12:03:48 <alphaone> It's just easier to have that empty map from the start than create it as soon as data worth storing appears.
Oct 28 12:03:57 <alphaone> please do
Oct 28 12:03:59 <DocScrutinizer-8> ooh yeah, pickle is 81 bytes atm
Oct 28 12:04:07 <alphaone> Maybe there are bugs in that logic
Oct 28 12:04:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> dunno if that's "zero", or it's always that small
Oct 28 12:05:38 <alphaone> well, the ephimeris packet contains 104 bytes
Oct 28 12:05:49 <alphaone> almanac 40
Oct 28 12:05:52 <alphaone> per sv
Oct 28 12:06:22 <alphaone> HUI 72
Oct 28 12:07:05 <alphaone> office train?
Oct 28 12:07:33 <alphaone> mickey|office: Oh, a static IP
Oct 28 12:07:39 <mickey|office> :)
Oct 28 12:07:42 <alphaone> Do you have IPv6 as well?
Oct 28 12:07:46 <mickey|office> i'm afraid not
Oct 28 12:07:50 <shoragan> DocScrutinizer-8, http://git.sicherheitsschwankung.de/?p=gps.git
Oct 28 12:07:57 <shoragan> that might be useful
Oct 28 12:07:59 <mickey|office> we're just subrenter here
Oct 28 12:08:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: 2D-fix after 27sec. though now it's 3/3 sats, not 3/10
Oct 28 12:08:38 <alphaone> 27 seconds is *really* good
Oct 28 12:08:45 <alphaone> how did you time that?
Oct 28 12:08:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> 4/4 after some 40sec
Oct 28 12:09:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> by counting "21, 22.." ;-)
Oct 28 12:09:23 <alphaone> That looks like aiding data was wiped
Oct 28 12:09:49 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: Ah, so you're the new time base for PTB now?
Oct 28 12:09:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> still NO diff to agps TTFF
Oct 28 12:10:07 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: yep XD
Oct 28 12:10:16 <mickey|office> hehe
Oct 28 12:10:22 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: Please try with something at least a stopwatch
Oct 28 12:10:30 <alphaone> Better ttff reported by chip
Oct 28 12:10:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> bah
Oct 28 12:10:55 <alphaone> Or if you don't want to then through ogpsd debug data
Oct 28 12:11:09 <alphaone> s/data/logs/
Oct 28 12:11:10 <apt> alphaone meant: Or if you don't want to then through ogpsd debug logs
Oct 28 12:11:38 <DocScrutinizer-8> considering the huge randomness of those tests at large, I'm absolutely sufficiently precise for a time base
Oct 28 12:12:44 <alphaone> If you say so
Oct 28 12:13:16 <alphaone> Well, if you restart you should see 0/4 or whatever SVs you got now right away
Oct 28 12:13:28 <DocScrutinizer-8> the diff between agps TTFF and cold (deleted pickle) TTFF is <10% and thus well below randomness of TTFF anyway
Oct 28 12:14:29 <alphaone> I'll just reiterate that the zhone GPS debug tab is really useful, especially looking at signal unusable, code/carrier lock/downloading data status
Oct 28 12:14:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> and you bet for comparing purposes I'm precise enough to tell any non-marginal diff between AGPS and cold TTFF
Oct 28 12:15:35 <alphaone> Yes, but there's more info to be had to investigate your Issue
Oct 28 12:15:44 <alphaone> Anyway, back to work
Oct 28 12:15:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> it's notmy issue
Oct 28 12:16:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'm just mentioning it seems the ublox performs good even without any pickle
Oct 28 12:17:11 <alphaone> fun
Oct 28 12:17:23 <alphaone> Well, it's supposed to, actually :-)
Oct 28 12:17:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> and I'm not up to analyze NMEA to understand why
Oct 28 12:17:47 <alphaone> No need!
Oct 28 12:17:59 <alphaone> zhone will tell you with grey and green bars
Oct 28 12:18:08 <alphaone> Anyway, I made my point
Oct 28 12:18:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> tell what?
Oct 28 12:18:27 <alphaone> Ich you need help interpreting zhones display let me know
Oct 28 12:18:50 <alphaone> How fast what SVs are recognized, locked onto and ephemeris download completed
Oct 28 12:19:19 <alphaone> Would be interesting
Oct 28 12:19:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> i'm not interested in any zhone green bars. I have nmeric values in shr-settings sat details, and all the other details in basic position screen
Oct 28 12:20:19 <alphaone> Yes, the stuff NMEA is willing to give you
Oct 28 12:20:20 <shoragan> i just read the backlog
Oct 28 12:20:25 <alphaone> Not the advanced stuff
Oct 28 12:20:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> and I know from GPS basics it's impossible to dl ephem/alm in 25sec
Oct 28 12:20:46 <shoragan> if the "delete agps data" button in shr is not restarting the framework it won't have any effect until you reboot
Oct 28 12:21:00 <shoragan> frameworkd will not reload the persist file
Oct 28 12:21:10 <alphaone> Yeah, already mentioned that
Oct 28 12:21:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: we're one step beyond
Oct 28 12:21:49 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer-8: Even more important to see what the ublox chip reports before/during/after the fix
Oct 28 12:21:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: I rm the pickle, then rebooted
Oct 28 12:21:52 <shoragan> but with complete alm+eph i see ~15 sec fixes often
Oct 28 12:21:59 <alphaone> But I said that about ten times now
Oct 28 12:22:10 <alphaone> If you don't wnat to listen, fine
Oct 28 12:22:22 <DocScrutinizer-8> alphaone: and I say 3rd time I'll not digg int that
Oct 28 12:22:31 <alphaone> Gotta do more productive stuff no
Oct 28 12:22:32 <shoragan> more is only possible with better time sync
Oct 28 12:24:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: alphaone: If you got an obvious flaw/strangeness in your code, it's not *my* problem to debug it. And I don't have to "listen" to suggestions to use zhone to learn.. yeah what? I'm not into that stuff so I really won't do the debugging to report to you, as you can do that as well
Oct 28 12:25:42 * DocScrutinizer-8 shrugs
Oct 28 12:27:33 <shoragan> i've been using the agps stuff for ~6 months now, it's working very well for me (~15 sec fixes)
Oct 28 12:27:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: read backscroll
Oct 28 12:28:00 <shoragan> i did
Oct 28 12:28:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> so you obviously missed the point
Oct 28 12:28:31 <shoragan> maybe
Oct 28 12:29:35 <shoragan> your problem is that for you agps does not help?
Oct 28 12:30:21 <DocScrutinizer-8> which is: "deleting pickle makes NO difference, which suggests either AGPS is completely useless, or there's a major bug in pickle file handling at large"
Oct 28 12:31:21 <shoragan> even with working pickle file handling this can have many causes
Oct 28 12:31:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: see above. I get TTFF of <30sec *without* pickle (allegedly empty pickle actually)
Oct 28 12:32:07 <shoragan> that's possible under good condition
Oct 28 12:33:33 <shoragan> even if you have a fix, that does not mean you have all available alm/eph
Oct 28 12:33:59 <shoragan> so a simple restart (with some aiding) might not give you a faster fix
Oct 28 12:34:32 <shoragan> having full alm and eph for all visible sats should give you ~14 sec ttff
Oct 28 12:34:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> still it doesn't
Oct 28 12:35:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> I get 25sec with and without data
Oct 28 12:36:02 <shoragan> do you have a accurate time?
Oct 28 12:36:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> I admit I didn't compare precision of fix though
Oct 28 12:36:26 <shoragan> precision shouldn't matter
Oct 28 12:36:33 <DocScrutinizer-8> yes, time *is* as accurate as it gets
Oct 28 12:37:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> it's set each time I get a fix
Oct 28 12:37:27 <shoragan> can you send me the pickle file which you used to test agps?
Oct 28 12:37:47 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, I guess that's feasible
Oct 28 12:39:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> though another 30min of work to reproduce the different states pickle was during the tests
Oct 28 12:42:29 <DocScrutinizer-8> will take a while...
Oct 28 12:43:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> first I have to make sure it downloaded ephem/alm correctly and completely, which probably will need some 30min of gps enabled
Oct 28 12:44:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> then do all the TTFF metering, rm *.pickle, reboot and watch pickle resurrect during that, and always copy to some backup the pickle in between
Oct 28 12:45:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> prepare for ETA not before tomorrow
Oct 28 12:46:59 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: want some logs as well? would I need special settings to create good logs? which ones?
Oct 28 12:47:28 <shoragan> mom
Oct 28 12:51:36 <panicking> DocScrutinizer-8, do you know the ram refresh period
Oct 28 12:51:39 <panicking> of gta02
Oct 28 12:51:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> duh, no
Oct 28 12:53:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> panicking: seems qi/uboot and kernel resume code should have that
Oct 28 12:54:29 <shoragan> DocScrutinizer-8, you have to restart frameworkd every time you change/remove the pickle file
Oct 28 12:54:36 <shoragan> otherwise it won't have any effect
Oct 28 12:54:53 <lindi-> uh? and you won't be able to receive calls during that?
Oct 28 12:54:59 <shoragan> lindi-, no
Oct 28 12:55:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: I shutdown gps, then do "rm *.pickle", confirm it's gone, then *rebooted*
Oct 28 12:55:21 <shoragan> ok
Oct 28 12:55:46 <shoragan> but restarting frameworkd should be enough
Oct 28 12:56:09 <shoragan> lindi-, you shouldn't need to remove the pickle file anyway
Oct 28 12:56:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> still after reboot there was a "ressurected" pickle, creation time boottime. and I got 25sec with that pickle as well
Oct 28 12:56:47 <shoragan> DocScrutinizer-8, thats expected under good condition
Oct 28 12:57:52 <shoragan> but it should be better than that with vaild aiding data
Oct 28 12:58:40 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rc8f30ee9d815 10/fsogsmd/ (7 files in 4 dirs): fsogsmd: improve 3rdparty code integration for SMS PDU handling
Oct 28 12:58:57 <lindi-> shoragan: well except for debugging?
Oct 28 12:59:01 <DocScrutinizer-8> so under good conditions: TTFF-AGPS=25s, TTFF-cold=25s; under poor conditions TTFF-AGPS=160s, TTFF-cold=??? (before I start further tests to yield meaningless results)
Oct 28 12:59:50 <shoragan> in the agps cases, did you have eph for many sats?
Oct 28 13:00:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> no idea
Oct 28 13:00:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'm accuiring eph right now
Oct 28 13:00:41 <shoragan> DocScrutinizer-8, having eph for only some sats may explain why it's not better that cold
Oct 28 13:00:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> to reproduce with better defined conditions
Oct 28 13:04:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> shoragan: what's considered a condition poor enough to see actual impact of AGPS?
Oct 28 13:04:41 <DocScrutinizer-8> is 28..33 S/N low enough?
Oct 28 13:05:51 <shoragan> it should have an impact even under good conditions
Oct 28 13:06:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> it nnever had here, assuming I ever got a full eph/alm dl
Oct 28 13:07:29 <DocScrutinizer-8> actually I never seen a TTFF better than those 25s measured half an hour ago, with freshly deleted pickle
Oct 28 13:09:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> nevertheless I will test with stopwatch (yes, I'll find one for alphaone|gone ;-), and same conditions as before, after some good time for eph/alm dl
Oct 28 13:11:07 <shoragan> zhone should be easily installable on shr
Oct 28 13:11:17 <shoragan> it will show you a lot of internal gps details
Oct 28 13:11:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> sigh
Oct 28 13:11:47 <shoragan> also for which sat you have eph/alm
Oct 28 13:11:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> atm I guess nothing is "easily installable on shr"
Oct 28 13:12:04 <shoragan> oh
Oct 28 13:12:32 <shoragan> it's just a python scipt and the edje file
Oct 28 13:12:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> so might work then
Oct 28 13:13:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> as long as I don't do an opkg update
Oct 28 13:14:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> this fsckng installation has to serve as a semi-working phone for at least another 4 weeks :-/
Oct 28 13:15:29 <net_tux> is that how long before a new build is expected to be released?
Oct 28 13:15:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's time to N900 shipping date
Oct 28 13:16:06 <net_tux> ah
Oct 28 13:18:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> after I got that, you may (or may not) talk me into whatever adventure regarding shr-u-experimetal-explosive-whatever. For now I'm really reluctant to do any install/upgrade
Oct 28 13:19:44 <Weiss> Heinervdm: (r.e. merging xf86-video-glamo KMS into master) reason not to do it just yet: won't compile without libdrm, even if KMS isn't used
Oct 28 13:19:47 <net_tux> yeah - I'm running an image from mid August
Oct 28 13:20:24 <net_tux> and considering looking for another distro :(
Oct 28 13:21:37 <DocScrutinizer-8> atm the standard conversation goes like "(t0) mrmoku: new new image seems to work quite nice. \n (t+0:30) xyz: but xorg/ogsmd/foo segfaults on first inbound"
Oct 28 13:25:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> 9/12 accuracy:1.4/0.8/1.3
Oct 28 13:25:29 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's inndoor
Oct 28 13:35:00 <DocScrutinizer-8> ohh, FUCK! installing task-python-efl
Oct 28 13:36:03 * DocScrutinizer-8 googles for shoragans address, just in case...
Oct 28 13:36:27 <shoragan> DocScrutinizer-8, python-efl should be there for shr anyway?
Oct 28 13:36:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's exactly the point!!!! upgrading it :-(((
Oct 28 13:37:00 <shoragan> ah, your installing via opkg?
Oct 28 13:37:06 <DocScrutinizer-8> sure
Oct 28 13:37:09 <shoragan> i though just copying it over
Oct 28 13:37:12 <DocScrutinizer-8> what else??
Oct 28 13:37:20 <shoragan> to leave the rest alone
Oct 28 13:38:21 <DocScrutinizer-8> installing python-etk :-(((
Oct 28 13:38:34 <shoragan> sry
Oct 28 13:38:58 <shoragan> everything it needs is part of the shr image anyway
Oct 28 13:39:06 * DocScrutinizer-8 considers to kick it into the bin right now, and reactivate 6210
Oct 28 13:39:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> mustn't forget to remoce my sim prior to binning that crap
Oct 28 13:40:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> sorry, so no logs or pickle files anymore
Oct 28 13:42:11 <shoragan> it broke completely?
Oct 28 13:42:59 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'm tempted to simply assume, tosave my time and nerves to test
Oct 28 13:43:28 <DocScrutinizer-8> yust place it on the tram-rail and finally feel FREE
Oct 28 13:44:20 <shoragan> hopefully the n900 is hackable
Oct 28 13:44:54 <shoragan> the prē isn't that straight forward either :/
Oct 28 13:45:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> i start to fell, hopefully it's NOT
Oct 28 13:46:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> feel
Oct 28 13:46:41 <shoragan> :/
Oct 28 13:46:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> hmm, no segfault on boot so far
Oct 28 13:47:07 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, probably that would have been to simple
Oct 28 13:56:40 <net_tux> DocScrutinizer-8: if it's still working ok, I'd highly recommend running this script:
Oct 28 13:56:40 <net_tux> http://pastebin.com/m2d6af368
Oct 28 13:56:40 <net_tux> which will create a root image and kernel image you can flash as well as a full copy of your filesystem
Oct 28 13:56:40 <net_tux> I run it before I every try doing an upgrade
Oct 28 13:57:47 <net_tux> every -> ever
Oct 28 13:58:46 <net_tux> oops, I updated that posting after copying the URL, this one is a little beter:
Oct 28 13:58:46 <net_tux> http://pastebin.com/m1ef64b03
Oct 28 13:59:08 <net_tux> man, can't type today
Oct 28 13:59:08 <net_tux> beter -> better
Oct 28 13:59:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> net_tux: I might adapt it to run without FR hooked up to any PC :-)
Oct 28 14:00:01 <DocScrutinizer-8> as I install over GPRS, remote from any Laptop
Oct 28 14:00:19 <net_tux> DocScrutinizer-8: cool - good idea
Oct 28 14:01:13 <net_tux> if you don't have mkfs.jffs2 installed already, I can send you a copy so you don't have to install it from the (possibly broken) repo
Oct 28 14:04:53 <panicking> lindi-, I'm working on the latest patch for 2.6.32
Oct 28 14:04:59 <panicking> frequency scaling
Oct 28 14:05:06 <panicking> I have integrated voltage regulator
Oct 28 14:05:16 <panicking> but I have some trouble
Oct 28 14:05:24 <panicking> to switch from a frequency to an other
Oct 28 14:16:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> panicking: I think all that has been done quite some time ago?
Oct 28 14:17:14 <argiris> My sim was in a sony erricsson k500i and some character @ the contacts are not readable from applications.Do you know what encoding I must install and how?
Oct 28 14:24:01 <JesusMcCloud> raster: ELM_WIN_DESKTOP works flawlessly in C on my box
Oct 28 14:26:10 <raster> :)
Oct 28 14:26:13 <raster> muhahahahah
Oct 28 14:26:17 <raster> as i thought :)
Oct 28 14:28:35 <JesusMcCloud> raster: so whats up with the python bindings?
Oct 28 14:29:22 <JesusMcCloud> (not that i know python, its just faster to change things and try things out, if you just started with elm, so al serieous coding will be in c)
Oct 28 14:29:48 <spaetz> JesusMcCloud: don't ask raster about python. never... ever ... :)
Oct 28 14:30:10 <JesusMcCloud> noted
Oct 28 14:30:13 <spaetz> It might be dangerous for you :)
Oct 28 14:30:37 <JesusMcCloud> i think i am far away enough... but i'll keep it in mind
Oct 28 14:31:39 <raster> JesusMcCloud:  i dont follow the python bindings.. so can't say. maybe just not up to date ot fully done?
Oct 28 14:31:50 <raster> sap i'm going easy on him :)
Oct 28 14:31:56 <spaetz> hehe
Oct 28 14:32:15 <AntonTak1> python? yech, i'd rather use basic  ;)
Oct 28 15:04:45 <panicking> DocScrutinizer, the idea is try to increase battery life and if it is possible
Oct 28 15:04:52 <panicking> to use 500Mhz frequency
Oct 28 15:14:51 <JesusMcCloud> mrmoku: i was thinking about the vertical sliders: how do you imagine rejecting a call using slider? 3-state-toggle or a seperate button?
Oct 28 15:17:46 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: rejecting is another screen
Oct 28 15:18:05 <mrmoku> the toggle is for the active call screen... aka after you pressed accept
Oct 28 15:18:38 <JesusMcCloud> ok so accept and reject will be button based... ist that a littel incosistent? (just a thought)
Oct 28 15:19:30 <mrmoku> will still do some work on the incoming call screen too then :)
Oct 28 15:20:33 <JesusMcCloud> again, just bouncing ideas i dont cosider myself a designer (i dont even know how to make my gry* buttons less ugly when pressed and still maek them work in bright sunlight)
Oct 28 15:25:35 <JesusMcCloud> (i'm creating svgs from the call screen mockups on phoneui page and adjust them to make them look like i'd liek htem to be and then post htem somwhere)
Oct 28 15:26:46 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: good.. fast though ;)
Oct 28 15:27:02 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: btw. did you take a look at my last commit to libphone-ui-shr?
Oct 28 15:27:24 <JesusMcCloud> which one?
Oct 28 15:27:38 <JesusMcCloud> i updated yesterdy evening since then saving numbers works
Oct 28 15:27:49 <JesusMcCloud> and sms got a little improved
Oct 28 15:31:12 <JesusMcCloud> mrmoku: i'll opkg update & upgrade
Oct 28 15:32:40 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: no, not built yet
Oct 28 15:32:46 <mrmoku> just started to cleanup the edcs
Oct 28 15:32:50 <mrmoku> united them into one
Oct 28 15:33:11 <JesusMcCloud> coolio
Oct 28 15:33:20 <mrmoku> no user-visible changes but interesting for themers :P
Oct 28 15:33:54 <JesusMcCloud> (although i won't have to theme them to fint with gry, since they already use the gry* colorscheme when having gry* elm theme installed)
Oct 28 15:40:54 <TAsnn> mrmoku, built the new glamo driver?
Oct 28 15:41:05 <TAsnn> Weiss, omfg, that's an odd bug ;] thanks a lot! :)
Oct 28 15:41:07 * TAsnn is baking a cake.
Oct 28 15:44:29 <Weiss> mmmmm cake :D
Oct 28 15:45:16 * TAsnn slaps Weiss on his hand.
Oct 28 15:45:20 <TAsnn> Wait! it's not ready yet@!
Oct 28 15:45:20 <TAsnn> :)
Oct 28 15:45:26 <TAsnn> (the cake)
Oct 28 15:47:35 <dos1> Cake is a lie!
Oct 28 15:48:38 <Weiss> hehe
Oct 28 15:51:11 <dos1> companioooon cuuuubeeeeeeeeeeee :'(((
Oct 28 15:51:30 <dos1> heh, that guy on maillist is strange...
Oct 28 15:51:48 <TAsnn> dos1, I guess that since I didn't finish the game I was no supposed to understand this: "<dos1> companioooon cuuuubeeeeeeeeeeee :'((("
Oct 28 15:51:49 <dos1> subject: "Centralization of graphical awesomeness" on community ml
Oct 28 15:52:14 <dos1> TAsnn: you're right ;)
Oct 28 15:52:34 <TAsnn> :)
Oct 28 15:53:11 <dos1> well, i like and i'm playing only few games
Oct 28 15:53:38 <TAsnn> :)
Oct 28 15:53:38 <dos1> portal, frets on fire, frozen-bubble, supertux, pingus and few others ;)
Oct 28 15:53:43 <TAsnn> lol.
Oct 28 15:53:48 <TAsnn> you crazy open source dude ;]
Oct 28 15:53:53 <dos1> so portal is the only one non-free game :D
Oct 28 15:53:59 <TAsnn> yeah ;)
Oct 28 15:53:59 <dos1> buuuut
Oct 28 15:54:07 <TAsnn> you'll play diablo 3
Oct 28 15:54:07 <dos1> i found portal in ascii
Oct 28 15:54:09 <TAsnn> when it's out?
Oct 28 15:54:11 <TAsnn> dos1, lol.
Oct 28 15:54:15 <dos1> and it's open :D
Oct 28 15:54:16 <TAsnn> I think I heard about that.
Oct 28 15:54:17 <TAsnn> :)
Oct 28 15:55:27 <dos1> about diablo 3 - dunno, i'll see
Oct 28 15:56:14 <TAsnn> mrmoku|away, nooo :)
Oct 28 15:58:27 <TAsnn> shit
Oct 28 15:58:36 <TAsnn> Weiss, I can't test your driver
Oct 28 15:58:46 <TAsnn> as build (of libxfont) fails here
Oct 28 15:58:52 <TAsnn> and mrmoku|away didn't build it in repos yet.
Oct 28 15:59:26 <Weiss> :(
Oct 28 16:01:20 <TAsnn> Weiss, hm... maybe I can use your package.
Oct 28 16:01:24 <TAsnn> I wonder
Oct 28 16:01:42 <TAsnn> but we probably use different libc
Oct 28 16:01:51 <TAsnn> and actually different everything.
Oct 28 16:03:36 <Weiss> TAsnn: maybe not.. I'm using SHR-Unstable from only a month or so ago
Oct 28 16:03:50 <TAsnn> mind sending me your package?: )
Oct 28 16:04:48 <TAsnn> tom #@$@#%@$%@#$ stosb.com
Oct 28 16:05:35 <Weiss> http://www.bitwiz.org.uk/openmoko/dri-binaries/xf86-video-glamo_git-r0.0087_armv4t.ipk
Oct 28 16:06:18 <TAsnn> thanks.
Oct 28 16:08:51 <TAsnn> Weiss, installed.
Oct 28 16:08:59 <TAsnn> testing.
Oct 28 16:11:16 <TAsnn> Weiss, btw, why would anyone use a sleep(1) (sounds a bit excessive) in the first place?
Oct 28 16:19:38 <Weiss> TAsnn: it used to be usleep(1000) before larsc cleaned things up and moved that chunk to another file. possibly he was just out by a factor of 1000 in his head..
Oct 28 16:20:16 <TAsnn> hehe, I hate when that happens. that's why I do'nt trust the human mind.
Oct 28 16:20:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> I *HATE* BUSYBOX
Oct 28 16:21:41 <TAsnn> DocScrutinizer-8, why? I find lack of features fun and relaxing.
Oct 28 16:22:19 <Weiss> TAsnn: indeed. I like to think about it and understand why these things happen (http://www.bitwiz.org.uk/s/2009/02/understanding-mistakes.html)
Oct 28 16:22:21 <DocScrutinizer-8> sure, lack of sleep 0.1 is great, e.g.
Oct 28 16:22:23 <TAsnn> dos1, THE CAKE IS NOT A LIE.
Oct 28 16:22:34 <TAsnn> Weiss, THANKS A LOT! :)
Oct 28 16:22:49 <Weiss> it works? :)
Oct 28 16:23:45 <dos1> TAsnn: *bzzt* At the end of test, you will be *bzzt* baked, and then there will be cake. *bzzt*
Oct 28 16:24:00 <TAsnn> Weiss, beautifully :)
Oct 28 16:24:37 <Weiss> :D
Oct 28 16:26:08 <TAsnn> mrmoku|away, gimme xf86-video-glamo please :) fixes resume time. :)
Oct 28 16:32:17 <JesusMcCloud> regarding phoneui desing... just making mockups makes me notice that there are some flaws with the design...
Oct 28 16:32:59 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, I'm glad to hear ;)
Oct 28 16:33:05 <Weiss> TAsnn: is it as fast as xf86-video-fbdev, or still a little slower?
Oct 28 16:33:20 <TAsnn> Weiss, no idea, never tested fbdev
Oct 28 16:33:23 <Weiss> (it does do a lot more stuff. I'm curious as to whether that makes a significant difference)
Oct 28 16:33:28 <Weiss> ah, ok
Oct 28 16:33:32 <JesusMcCloud> TAsnn: will post picture soon with sidenotes
Oct 28 16:33:39 <TAsnn> Weiss, but it's almost instantaneous
Oct 28 16:33:45 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, actually I'd really like to hear your comments
Oct 28 16:33:57 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, btw, don't be afraid to add stuff to phoneui wiki page. :)
Oct 28 16:34:04 <JesusMcCloud> a picture spaeks more than 1000 words..
Oct 28 16:34:55 <JesusMcCloud> TAsnn: atm i'm fiddling around and i realized the approcah with vertival toggle and voluem slider: it wont look good (i added picture and name of the caller and BAM! you run into troubles because if you make it centered it doesnt look centered...
Oct 28 16:35:22 <DocScrutinizer-8> "slider isn't a valid substitute for two buttons" isn't 1000 words, and still more clear than a picture
Oct 28 16:35:36 <TAsnn> DocScrutinizer, why not?
Oct 28 16:36:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsnn: how to press green button twice then? ;-P
Oct 28 16:36:30 <TAsnn> huh, what green button?
Oct 28 16:37:23 <DocScrutinizer-8> exactly
Oct 28 16:37:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> slider isn't a valid substitute for two buttons
Oct 28 16:38:07 <JesusMcCloud> DocScrutinizer-8: ahhh i understand... good point, and the next problem is found!
Oct 28 16:38:34 <JesusMcCloud> DocScrutinizer-8: although slider can still work nicely
Oct 28 16:38:35 <TAsnn> you are crazy.
Oct 28 16:38:38 <TAsnn> :)
Oct 28 16:39:01 <JesusMcCloud> just figured when you have another incoming call another window will be ontop of the current one so you dont need buttons...
Oct 28 16:39:15 <Sup3rkiddo> anyone know the pull uri for the git repos which FSO guys use?
Oct 28 16:39:22 <Sup3rkiddo> i mean the OE tree
Oct 28 16:39:37 <DocScrutinizer-8> what a mess
Oct 28 16:39:52 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, yeah, I know another window will be on top.
Oct 28 16:40:07 <JesusMcCloud> so sliders will still wokr fine (3-step-slider)
Oct 28 16:40:10 <TAsnn> Sup3rkiddo, fso guys use the SHR tree iirc.
Oct 28 16:40:26 <Sup3rkiddo> TAsnn, ah ok
Oct 28 16:40:27 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, omg, don't replace buttons with slider
Oct 28 16:40:30 <TAsnn> only for volume.
Oct 28 16:40:33 <Sup3rkiddo> TAsnn, thanks
Oct 28 16:40:33 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r31da476bf015 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/atcommands.vala: fsogsmd: add (optional) SIM name in +CMGL
Oct 28 16:40:38 <TAsnn> Sup3rkiddo, np,.
Oct 28 16:41:00 <JesusMcCloud> TAsnn: i am not implementign anything. i am just drawing mockups
Oct 28 16:41:12 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, I know.
Oct 28 16:41:31 <TAsnn> Weiss, thanks again! You literally changed my life ;]
Oct 28 16:41:32 <JesusMcCloud> TAsnn: drawing mockups makes you realize where the design flaws are hidden...
Oct 28 16:41:40 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, of course.
Oct 28 16:42:01 <TAsnn> Weiss, (I missed a lot of calls because of slow resume time)
Oct 28 16:42:40 <JesusMcCloud> TAsnn: DocScrutinizer-8: but you run out of buttons/toggles etc so i think the slider approcha is not the worst, (it has a huge advantage, but wailt till my first image is ready and i will explain)
Oct 28 16:43:01 <TAsnn> yay, finally managed to build libxfont (edited the makefile to stop building docs)
Oct 28 16:43:44 <Weiss> TAsnn: aww :)
Oct 28 16:43:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, I won't have to cope with that for the next 5 weeks
Oct 28 16:43:53 <Weiss> nice to make a difference..
Oct 28 16:45:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> and then there's still paroli ;-P
Oct 28 16:45:44 <TAsnn> Weiss, :)
Oct 28 16:45:50 <TAsnn> DocScrutinizer-8, traitor.
Oct 28 16:47:54 <TAsnn> ciao for the meanwhile.
Oct 28 16:49:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsnn: would you prefer a videa of a)droptest from skyscraper (camera on impact ground 0), or b) 40ton lorry or train rolling over my phone?
Oct 28 16:49:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> video
Oct 28 16:49:54 <TAsnn> no idea :( that's a hard question.
Oct 28 16:50:00 <Weiss> option (b) with the train would be dangerous..
Oct 28 16:50:02 <TAsnn> both are amazingly nice.
Oct 28 16:50:15 <TAsnn> probably i'd prefer seeing the first.
Oct 28 16:56:58 <sicu> DocScrutinizer-8: they all pretty much sound like instant phone death ... i'd rather you make your phone the main actor in a slapstick chain of events
Oct 28 16:56:59 <JesusMcCloud> mockup is done
Oct 28 16:57:13 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, up.
Oct 28 16:57:30 <JesusMcCloud> (i did not actual widgets so proportions will nto be that ugly
Oct 28 16:57:37 <sicu> make it a weekly video blog so we get some entertainment out of it ;p
Oct 28 16:57:40 <JesusMcCloud> http://jmccloud.jm.funpic.de/neo/call%20active.png <-mockup
Oct 28 16:58:08 <JesusMcCloud> actual widgets will look way much nicer
Oct 28 16:58:42 <JesusMcCloud> sicu: +1
Oct 28 16:58:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> sicu: "the 3 stooges" (trying to build a phone) - sth like that? That's already (c) Wolfgang spraul ;-P
Oct 28 17:01:22 <JesusMcCloud> TAsnn: i thing hanging up and pickin up a call shoudl be doen by toggles or at least buttons thate are not in the same place as they are in contacts/messages/phonelog/flaunch so the user cannot accidentally hit the buttons of the underlaying windows
Oct 28 17:02:01 <JesusMcCloud> DocScrutinizer-8: what do you think about that?
Oct 28 17:08:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> I think we should keep a homogenous UI-style throughout all phone apps, as I already pushed some months ago with "green"=left, "red"=right. Nevertheless we need to make sure user doesn't hit buttons accidentally by e.g. a screen closing or popping up during user tries to press another button
Oct 28 17:10:17 <JesusMcCloud> DocScrutinizer-8: but thsi will continue to happen if teh buttons are always in the same place...
Oct 28 17:10:21 <DocScrutinizer-8> this can be achieved by e.g. introducing a delay between a screen getting focus (aka become visible) and actually taking touch events
Oct 28 17:10:36 <JesusMcCloud> DocScrutinizer-8: thats an idea
Oct 28 17:11:05 <JesusMcCloud> there doesnt even have to be anotehr window benath, even using flaunch can screw things up
Oct 28 17:11:48 <TAsnn> DocScrutinizer, yes, we already said we want "free time"
Oct 28 17:11:52 <TAsnn> freeze*
Oct 28 17:12:11 <TAsnn> when windows close/open
Oct 28 17:12:42 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, not sure I like it.
Oct 28 17:12:47 <TAsnn> looks too "crowded"
Oct 28 17:12:47 <JesusMcCloud> it woudl be neugh if after a call ended the call duration would be displayed for 1 second or so
Oct 28 17:12:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsnn: heh, great minds work alike ;-)
Oct 28 17:13:03 <TAsnn> DocScrutinizer-8, :)
Oct 28 17:13:40 <dos1> freeze time, yup
Oct 28 17:13:50 <dos1> it's how it worked in my old nokia :)
Oct 28 17:14:00 <TAsnn> :)
Oct 28 17:14:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> duh, not been THAT old then
Oct 28 17:14:25 <TAsnn> dos1, nokia rock.
Oct 28 17:14:28 <JesusMcCloud> i am not a good designer, i just altered the call screen that was available as a sketch in the wiki. and i realized i have really no idea on how to make a call screnn happen where you have more than just 3 things accesible without having to click more than one time...
Oct 28 17:14:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> my 1999 6210 I actually rejected inbound by accident
Oct 28 17:15:00 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, I don't have a better idea (yet)
Oct 28 17:15:04 <TAsnn> but I will :)
Oct 28 17:15:11 <JesusMcCloud> i hope so
Oct 28 17:15:27 <TAsnn> but I don't think both your idea/current design "work" as wanted.
Oct 28 17:15:59 <JesusMcCloud> (i am one of those guys who never used om2007.2 so i should probably look at the cacc screens it used)
Oct 28 17:17:08 <JesusMcCloud> waht do wen need? we want picture displayed (but not during call ?) we need to be able to toggel keyboard, we need to adjust volume... waht else, do we need anything else apart from maybe "put on hold"?
Oct 28 17:17:43 <JesusMcCloud> s/keyboard/keypad/
Oct 28 17:18:24 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, we need to figure out
Oct 28 17:18:28 <TAsnn> how we want to handle
Oct 28 17:18:30 <TAsnn> calls
Oct 28 17:18:34 <TAsnn> (multi calls)
Oct 28 17:18:43 <TAsnn> atm we do it by using multi windows
Oct 28 17:18:51 <TAsnn> maybe just one, with a list
Oct 28 17:18:52 <JesusMcCloud> does it owrk using phoneui?
Oct 28 17:18:53 <TAsnn> is better.
Oct 28 17:18:59 <TAsnn> JesusMcCloud, multi call?
Oct 28 17:19:02 <JesusMcCloud> yup
Oct 28 17:19:06 <TAsnn> for a long time now
Oct 28 17:19:11 <TAsnn> used to work in efl0
Oct 28 17:19:42 <JesusMcCloud> coolio (never got into the situation for weeks now)
Oct 28 17:19:46 <TAsnn> :)
Oct 28 17:21:06 <JesusMcCloud> what are the option in multi call? accept ->first call on hold. reject ->first one stays active, conference mode (after accepted and put one on hold)
Oct 28 17:21:21 <TAsn> no confrence yet.
Oct 28 17:21:25 <TAsn> conference*
Oct 28 17:21:46 <JesusMcCloud> ok, but maybe it should be considered in teh design for the future?
Oct 28 17:21:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> gnaaah, look at GSM basic specs
Oct 28 17:22:07 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, probably.
Oct 28 17:22:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> all about 3 keys "1" "2" "3"
Oct 28 17:23:02 <DocScrutinizer-8> and "0" iirc
Oct 28 17:23:43 <JesusMcCloud> but htere should be a design before there is an implementation...
Oct 28 17:23:56 <DocScrutinizer-8> it's standardized. No need to invent any new fancy foo
Oct 28 17:24:30 <JesusMcCloud> so the three buttons that alredy exist and a slider for volume?
Oct 28 17:24:51 <TAsn> Weiss, what's xf86-video-glamo-kms ?
Oct 28 17:24:55 <TAsn> I mean, I know what that is.
Oct 28 17:25:05 <TAsn> what I meant is, why don't we use it?
Oct 28 17:27:54 <Weiss> TAsn: the only reason not to merge kms back into master is that kms won't (currently) compile without libdrm, so we'd effectively be locking out non-KMS users if I did that
Oct 28 17:28:00 <Weiss> apart from that, there's no reason
Oct 28 17:28:14 <Weiss> -kms includes both drivers, and uses the "traditional
Oct 28 17:28:24 <TAsn> i c.
Oct 28 17:28:24 <Weiss> " driver if KMS isn't available in the kernel
Oct 28 17:28:45 <TAsn> oh, so atm I'm using the kms driver (if I have that in kernel?)
Oct 28 17:29:08 <Weiss> yep - check your Xorg.0.log where it'll say either "Using KMS!" or "Not using KMS
Oct 28 17:29:11 <Weiss> +"
Oct 28 17:29:58 <mickeyl> alphaone: ACK/NACKing SMS should not be exposed through dbus API, right?
Oct 28 17:31:20 <DocScrutinizer-8> mickeyl: OTA ACK?
Oct 28 17:31:31 <mickeyl> yes
Oct 28 17:31:50 <TAsn> Weiss, (II) Not using KMS
Oct 28 17:31:57 <TAsn> but I guess that's because of my kernel.
Oct 28 17:32:39 <DocScrutinizer-8> mickeyl: should be done implicitly when you successfully transfer the inbound SMS via dbus I guess. When storing SMS on SIM it's completely hidden inside modem anyway afaik
Oct 28 17:33:04 <mickeyl> yes, i think that was alphaone's reasoning as well last time he worked on SMS pdu
Oct 28 17:33:05 <Weiss> TAsn: yep
Oct 28 17:33:09 * mickeyl removes from specs
Oct 28 17:33:56 <Weiss> TAsn: incidentally, in the OpenWRT kernel patches there is support for enabling/disabling engines in the kernel (rather than from userspace). if you used that (no KMS), then the delay would also have gone away..
Oct 28 17:34:21 <DocScrutinizer-8> mickeyl: which makes me wonder what's going to happen when an inbound SMS is supposed to be stored in main system, but main system is suspended and takes 10sec to resume
Oct 28 17:34:22 <Weiss> (unless there's a similarly excessive delay in the kernel routines for that. I haven't actually looked at them)
Oct 28 17:34:23 <TAsn> well, I had delay.
Oct 28 17:34:38 <TAsn> with a non-kms kernel.
Oct 28 17:34:47 <alphaone> mickeyl: Nope, ACK/NACK of status reports was removed from spec
Oct 28 17:34:53 <Weiss> but with andy-tracking, not the full set of OpenWRT patches?
Oct 28 17:34:56 <mickeyl> alphaone: righto, thanks
Oct 28 17:35:08 <TAsn> Weiss, default shr.
Oct 28 17:35:15 <TAsn> so probably andy-tracking
Oct 28 17:35:16 <TAsn> yeah.
Oct 28 17:35:49 <alphaone> mickeyl: I kept ACK/NACK of SMS because of the possibility to receive the SMS without conveying that to the SMSC or sender
Oct 28 17:36:12 <mickeyl> alphaone: aah, i mixed that up. i see, ok, i need to think about that
Oct 28 17:36:33 <mickeyl> if you don't ACK or NACK SMSC will just retry?
Oct 28 17:36:56 <mickeyl> DocScrutinizer-8: that's why it's safer to always use SIM buffering
Oct 28 17:37:03 <mickeyl> DocScrutinizer-8: but handle this transparently to the system
Oct 28 17:37:11 <alphaone> If we do neither the modem will store it on SIM, ACK and disable all unsolicited messages.
Oct 28 17:37:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's my suggestion
Oct 28 17:37:24 <mickeyl> alphaone: ah, ok
Oct 28 17:37:36 <mickeyl> palm is doing this as well, btw.
Oct 28 17:37:51 <alphaone> So it would be wise to have a timeout that NACKs the message in case userland does nothing
Oct 28 17:37:54 <mickeyl> they use sim buffering internally and transparently
Oct 28 17:38:01 <mickeyl> alphaone: (timeout) ya, i like that
Oct 28 17:38:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> store on SIM but remove/transfer as soon as possible
Oct 28 17:38:25 <alphaone> mickeyl: What do they do if you put in a SIM where all slots are full?
Oct 28 17:38:34 <mickeyl> alphaone: can't happen
Oct 28 17:38:43 <alphaone> how so?
Oct 28 17:38:44 <mickeyl> on startup, they read everything into internal buffer
Oct 28 17:38:49 <mickeyl> and clear SIM
Oct 28 17:38:50 <DocScrutinizer-8> yep
Oct 28 17:39:00 <DocScrutinizer-8> correct procedure
Oct 28 17:39:21 <mickeyl> have to investigate how to do this for CDMA devices
Oct 28 17:39:25 <mickeyl> but that's not my main problem for now ;)
Oct 28 17:39:35 <alphaone> So they delete data on the SIM without your knowing?
Oct 28 17:39:51 <mickeyl> alphaone: looks like it yea
Oct 28 17:39:57 <alphaone> interesting
Oct 28 17:40:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'd be ok with that
Oct 28 17:40:40 <DocScrutinizer-8> as nowadays nobody honetly is interested in storing 8 SMS on SIM
Oct 28 17:40:40 <mickeyl> in order to simplify the API i want to get rid of being able to chose between direct and buffered mode
Oct 28 17:40:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> ack
Oct 28 17:41:02 <alphaone> mickeyl: Well, with phase2+ (ACK/NACK) it's perfectly possible to have reliable delivery without SIM buffering
Oct 28 17:41:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> always use SIM as buffer
Oct 28 17:41:25 <mickeyl> alphaone: i guess that's what they do for cdma as well
Oct 28 17:43:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> probably the question is (like always): does calypso - or any other nasty modem - know about phase2+
Oct 28 17:43:23 <alphaone> Yes
Oct 28 17:43:38 <alphaone> They specify ACK/NACK
Oct 28 17:43:46 <alphaone> Telit doesn't, though
Oct 28 17:43:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> and is it working always, even when main system is stale
Oct 28 17:44:10 <alphaone> DocScrutinizer: You'll lose no messages
Oct 28 17:44:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> hmm, so I have no particular notion on that then
Oct 28 17:46:11 <mickeyl> giving the limited amount of slots on a SIM, i will also get rid of individual message handling
Oct 28 17:47:03 <mickeyl> as well as phone entry
Oct 28 17:47:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> yup
Oct 28 17:47:28 <mickeyl> like... only keeping API that transfers a whole phonebook
Oct 28 17:47:32 <mickeyl> or erases
Oct 28 17:48:07 <mickeyl> (since it's the lowlevel API anyways), opimd will have the fine grained API
Oct 28 17:48:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> well for the contacts you at least want to be able to access particular index / make sure a index keeps a certain contact
Oct 28 17:49:39 <DocScrutinizer-8> for sms ack/nack, it helps to think of it as being similar to dbms commit/rollback
Oct 28 17:51:35 <TAsn> mickeyl, you still haven't responded to the opimd_redesign page :) (and we really want to hear your thoughts)
Oct 28 17:51:54 <mickeyl> TAsn: oh right, sorry about that. can you point me to it again please?
Oct 28 17:51:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> (contact index) see "nn#" speed dial specs of that notorious unknown paragraph of gsm specs
Oct 28 17:52:00 <TAsn> mickeyl, sec.
Oct 28 17:52:08 <TAsn> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opimd_redesign
Oct 28 17:52:14 <mickeyl> DocScrutinizer-8: i know, but i'd rather see speed-dialling implemented higherlevel
Oct 28 17:52:27 <mickeyl> DocScrutinizer-8: that way it can deal with larger phonebooks
Oct 28 17:52:31 <mickeyl> TAsn: thank
Oct 28 17:52:32 <mickeyl> s
Oct 28 17:52:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's usually another syntax or paradigm of speeddial
Oct 28 17:52:55 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, it's nice that gsm has speed dial
Oct 28 17:52:59 <TAsn> though I agree with mickeyl 
Oct 28 17:53:08 <TAsn> it belongs to higher level
Oct 28 17:53:43 * mickeyl goes back one step and implements sending SMS
Oct 28 17:53:47 <TAsn> (higher level probably means opimd)
Oct 28 17:53:48 <mickeyl> that we need anyways
Oct 28 17:54:00 <TAsn> mickeyl, what are you talking about? we can already send sms...
Oct 28 17:54:02 <TAsn> ;]
Oct 28 17:54:05 <mickeyl> hehe
Oct 28 17:54:17 <mickeyl> yes, and no
Oct 28 17:54:22 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, certain fieldtest monitor functions of modems rely on passing values as number of a particular sim contact index
Oct 28 17:54:52 <TAsn> mickeyl, you mean a higher level function for sending sms?
Oct 28 17:55:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> so having control over the sim contacts index and values is mandatory anyway
Oct 28 17:55:28 <mickeyl> TAsn: no, I'm working on fsogsmd, which can't send SMS yet. but yes, it will feature long SMS when it's done
Oct 28 17:56:03 <TAsn> so please consider using libphone_utils and maybe take a look at what we did in libphone-ui for sending long sms, as we already have clean, working code.
Oct 28 17:56:31 <TAsn> anyhow libphone-uitls has nice gsm encoding (in sms) features.
Oct 28 17:56:50 <DocScrutinizer-8> and for speeddial from SIM, it's clearly specified as "<[n]n>#"
Oct 28 17:57:06 <DocScrutinizer-8> afaik
Oct 28 17:57:34 <mickeyl> TAsn: the 3rd party code i'm using has all that already 
Oct 28 17:57:42 <mickeyl> TAsn: but i'll take a look at your API
Oct 28 17:57:54 <TAsn> mickeyl, really? mind giving me a link? (to the 3rd party code)
Oct 28 17:57:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> bbl
Oct 28 17:58:21 <mickeyl> TAsn: i grabbed the SMS PDU stuff from ofono :D
Oct 28 17:58:32 <TAsn> hehe. ;)
Oct 28 17:58:35 <mickeyl> there's a certain irony to that IMO
Oct 28 17:58:46 * TAsn is googling for their repos.
Oct 28 17:58:49 <TAsn> mickeyl, hehe, yeah.
Oct 28 17:59:23 <TAsn> they took your design, so the least they could do is contributing code back ;P
Oct 28 17:59:35 <mickeyl> righto :)
Oct 28 18:00:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> huh, ophono took fso design? Didn't they tell "fso is a stupid AT interface", so how could they take it then? LOL
Oct 28 18:01:45 <mickeyl> yeah, it's kind of funny
Oct 28 18:01:54 <mickeyl> if you take a look at the code you will see some very similar patterns :)
Oct 28 18:02:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's plain ridiculous
Oct 28 18:02:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> those suckers
Oct 28 18:02:54 <TAsn> mickeyl, maybe similar patterns, but damn, their c code is BAD.
Oct 28 18:02:56 <TAsn> and ugly.
Oct 28 18:02:57 <TAsn> :|
Oct 28 18:03:00 <mickeyl> TAsn: correct
Oct 28 18:03:46 <TAsn> i'm in deep pain :(
Oct 28 18:04:01 <TAsn> (just trying to find out how they deal with sending sms.
Oct 28 18:04:23 <mickeyl> check the fsogsmd repo
Oct 28 18:04:28 <mickeyl> the interesting code is already imported
Oct 28 18:04:35 <mickeyl> not the actual sending, of course
Oct 28 18:04:39 <mickeyl> since we do that on our won
Oct 28 18:04:40 <mickeyl> own
Oct 28 18:04:52 <mickeyl> but the nasty bit fiddleing
Oct 28 18:04:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's why it takes until maemo6 for ofono to start productive :-P
Oct 28 18:05:54 <TAsn> mickeyl, I'm just talking about splitting messages and moving from and to gsm7 (the latter is not yet implemented, but it can easily be done as I can easily do char -> gsm07)
Oct 28 18:06:14 <mickeyl> TAsn: yeah, charset conversion
Oct 28 18:06:21 <mickeyl> and 8bit->7bit
Oct 28 18:06:25 <mickeyl> for userdata
Oct 28 18:06:40 <TAsn> mickeyl, that's the same as utf8 to -> 7bit
Oct 28 18:06:42 <TAsn> isn't it?
Oct 28 18:07:01 <mickeyl> yes
Oct 28 18:07:06 <mickeyl> i'm looking forward to handling binary sms as well now
Oct 28 18:07:16 <mickeyl> so that someone can do MMS
Oct 28 18:07:23 <mickeyl> and those strange configuration things :D
Oct 28 18:07:31 <DocScrutinizer-8> eeeeek
Oct 28 18:07:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> pleeease NO
Oct 28 18:07:47 <mickeyl> so that the provider can make your phone dance by sending you SMSes
Oct 28 18:07:49 <TAsn> mickeyl, isn't mms just a simple sms with a link in it?
Oct 28 18:08:14 <TAsn> btw, I really think mms should not be retrieved automatically
Oct 28 18:08:18 <mickeyl> TAsn: that's one form, but last i heared from the operators, it's a tad bit more complicated
Oct 28 18:08:41 <TAsn> but we should let the user decide when and how (wifi? is it possible?) to retrieve it.
Oct 28 18:08:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> I simply DO NOT WANT ringtones sent by SMS for 4.99 bucks per SMS
Oct 28 18:09:20 <khiraly1> hi
Oct 28 18:09:20 <TAsn> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=fsogsmd/src/3rdparty/conversions.c;h=90af438f31594582e97d6250fbb8366734156624;hb=HEAD
Oct 28 18:09:26 <khiraly1> dos1: ping
Oct 28 18:09:37 <TAsn> if there's something I hate is discrete header inclusion!
Oct 28 18:09:41 <DocScrutinizer-8> also don't need a SMS that configs my GPRS to pay same amount per KB
Oct 28 18:09:52 <dos1> khiraly1: little pong
Oct 28 18:09:53 <TAsn> this file should definitely have a glib.h include line.
Oct 28 18:09:58 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, that's for sure.
Oct 28 18:10:36 <TAsn> #define uninitialized_var(x) x = x
Oct 28 18:10:39 <khiraly1> Have anybody noticed, when you type some text in a elementary entry, then you click on any other element (a button for example) and you click again on the entry. The cursor is at the end of the text. But when you send some chars useing illume keyword it inserts one char before the last char
Oct 28 18:10:39 <TAsn> what's that^ ?
Oct 28 18:10:44 <TAsn> oh
Oct 28 18:10:47 <TAsn> omfg
Oct 28 18:10:50 <TAsn> that's instead of a 
Oct 28 18:10:51 <khiraly1> the backspace does erase the last char
Oct 28 18:10:54 <TAsn> (void) x;
Oct 28 18:10:54 <khiraly1> pretty strange
Oct 28 18:10:57 <TAsn> man, that's ugly. ;)
Oct 28 18:11:02 <TAsn> (what they did)
Oct 28 18:11:33 <TAsn> it doesn't matter as any decent compiler will translate both x = x and (void) x to nothing, but still, the cast is wayyy nicer.
Oct 28 18:11:46 <TAsn> and will also work on structs.
Oct 28 18:11:47 <mickeyl> that particular function we will remove anyways
Oct 28 18:11:56 <mickeyl> as we can do the same in Vala
Oct 28 18:11:57 * TAsn thinks someone should fire someone.
Oct 28 18:11:59 <mickeyl> "".convert()
Oct 28 18:12:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> mickeyl: IF leftstr(sms, "/SCKL") then sms->delete
Oct 28 18:12:19 <mickeyl> heh
Oct 28 18:12:21 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, heh.
Oct 28 18:17:10 <mickeyl> still i like the idea of using binary SMS for MMI in use cases where latencies are not important
Oct 28 18:17:19 <mickeyl> esp. if you have SMS flatrate 
Oct 28 18:17:32 <mickeyl> since this rarely can be got for data connections 
Oct 28 18:17:35 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Oct 28 18:17:48 <dos1> mmi?
Oct 28 18:18:46 <mickeyl> machine 2 machine interaction
Oct 28 18:20:08 <dos1> oh, nice :)
Oct 28 18:21:54 <TAsn> mickeyl, I heard people use MMI when meaning GUI (Man Machine Interface), and I gotta say I hate they meaning and like yours better.
Oct 28 18:22:00 <TAsn> actually those same people use
Oct 28 18:22:33 <TAsn> MMI (man machine interface), HMI (human machine interface) and GUI when they talk about GUI.
Oct 28 18:22:35 <TAsn> ffs :(
Oct 28 18:23:14 <dos1> man machine interface sucks
Oct 28 18:23:25 <TAsn> tell me about it.
Oct 28 18:23:28 <dos1> human machine interface is quite acceptable
Oct 28 18:23:30 <mickeyl> *nod* acronyms...
Oct 28 18:23:34 <TAsn> I have to hear it on a daily basis.
Oct 28 18:23:34 <TAsn> :(
Oct 28 18:23:45 <dos1> (G)UI is the best for me :P
Oct 28 18:23:47 <TAsn> it's annoying and damn inconsistent.
Oct 28 18:24:04 <mickeyl> what's even worse is the new trendy "hardware 2 wetware"
Oct 28 18:24:05 <TAsn> dos1, that's the ONLY way to say it (in my pov)
Oct 28 18:24:15 <TAsn> mickeyl, wetware?
Oct 28 18:24:17 <TAsn> wth?
Oct 28 18:24:21 <mickeyl> *nod*
Oct 28 18:24:27 <mickeyl> humans consist of 80% water
Oct 28 18:24:38 <TAsn> you are probably joking.
Oct 28 18:24:40 <mickeyl> someone thought it was cool to introduce the term wetware
Oct 28 18:24:42 <mickeyl> sorry, no
Oct 28 18:24:45 <TAsn> I don't want to believe
Oct 28 18:24:47 <TAsn> you
Oct 28 18:25:02 <mickeyl> i was similarly shocked
Oct 28 18:25:07 <dos1> ....................
Oct 28 18:25:13 <TAsn> I hardly believe that.
Oct 28 18:25:27 <TAsn> I don't think you were nearly as shocked as I am now.
Oct 28 18:25:37 <TAsn> as I thought I reached rock bottom
Oct 28 18:25:40 <TAsn> with MMI and HMI
Oct 28 18:25:41 <mickeyl> hehe
Oct 28 18:25:47 <mickeyl> it can always get worse
Oct 28 18:25:56 <mickeyl> IIRC the term itself comes from biology actually
Oct 28 18:26:02 <TAsn> worse than wetware?
Oct 28 18:26:10 <dos1> carbonware?
Oct 28 18:26:17 <mickeyl> who knows what they come up with next...
Oct 28 18:26:26 <khiraly1> its only about 60%
Oct 28 18:26:27 <mickeyl> all in the name of sounding "fresh, new, and cool"
Oct 28 18:26:28 <khiraly1> ;-)
Oct 28 18:26:30 * mickeyl pukse
Oct 28 18:26:35 <mickeyl> pukes even
Oct 28 18:26:42 <mickeyl> khiraly1: details... details... :)
Oct 28 18:28:13 <dos1> ERMI - earth residents machine interface?
Oct 28 18:28:25 * alphaone only knows the term wetware from scifi and associated it with implants and such
Oct 28 18:28:34 <dos1> or even SSRMI
Oct 28 18:28:35 <bumbl> mickeyl: one has to move with the time - and the time wants to play bullshitbingo ;)
Oct 28 18:28:45 <dos1> solar system residents machine interface ;)
Oct 28 18:29:10 <dos1> and next... milky way?
Oct 28 18:29:12 <mickeyl> bumbl: right
Oct 28 18:29:23 <bumbl> which btw. is fun to play
Oct 28 18:29:27 <khiraly1> mickeyl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_water
Oct 28 18:29:39 <khiraly1> The percentage of body weight that is water therefore varies inversely with body fat. In the average lean adult male around 60% of the body weight is water.
Oct 28 18:29:46 <TAsn> dos1, (ERMI) that'll actually maybe make sense in the future.
Oct 28 18:29:55 <mickeyl> i drink a lot of water
Oct 28 18:30:01 <mickeyl> mine must be 80% ;)
Oct 28 18:30:26 <bumbl> mickeyl: 2l a day keep the doctor away
Oct 28 18:30:37 <khiraly1> mickeyl: if you are a jellyfish ...
Oct 28 18:30:41 <mickeyl> hehe
Oct 28 18:30:42 <khiraly1>  the body of an adult jellyfish is made up of 94–98% water.
Oct 28 18:30:46 <dos1> i feel now like something about 20% of water in my body ;x
Oct 28 18:31:01 <khiraly1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water#Effects_on_life
Oct 28 18:31:02 <khiraly1> ^^
Oct 28 18:31:14 <khiraly1> dos1: yeah, the rest of vodka
Oct 28 18:31:25 <khiraly1> s/of/are/
Oct 28 18:31:36 <dos1> heheh ;D
Oct 28 18:31:44 <dos1> not yet
Oct 28 18:31:48 <dos1> i'm too young ;)
Oct 28 18:32:11 <bumbl> dos1: that's not an excuse
Oct 28 18:32:20 <khiraly1> I just heard in the news, that ukraine soldiers must drinks vodka to avoid catching flu
Oct 28 18:32:21 <khiraly1> ;-)
Oct 28 18:32:39 <bumbl> lol
Oct 28 18:32:54 <dos1> bumbl: it's illegal here... but i suppose that's not excuse too ;D
Oct 28 18:32:55 <khiraly1> and also onion
Oct 28 18:33:27 <khiraly1> dunno how onion+vodka are. But I dont feel like trying one such a cocktail
Oct 28 18:33:30 <bumbl> dos1: vodka is illegal in poland? i thought limbarowa is from poland
Oct 28 18:34:03 <khiraly1> bumbl: its illegal under age 14. Is it dos1?;-D
Oct 28 18:34:21 <bumbl> haha
Oct 28 18:34:41 <dos1> oh, i'm not THAT young ;)
Oct 28 18:35:19 <khiraly1> dos1: try some hard drog. Its illegal no matter of your age
Oct 28 18:36:02 <dos1> but in ~25 days i'll be 17 years old, so i'll still have to wait one year ;P
Oct 28 18:36:10 <khiraly1> and with your age, you can even avoid prison. Oh dear if I knew that when I was thirteen ...
Oct 28 18:36:41 <dos1> khiraly1: well, i'm not interested. chocolate is my drug now and it works well :P
Oct 28 18:37:55 <bumbl> dos1: i knew 13year olds here who drank vodka bull regularly + according to media stuff hasn't changed
Oct 28 18:38:24 <bumbl> which is imo a bit too young
Oct 28 18:41:00 <dos1> yup
Oct 28 18:41:17 <dos1> well, i don't even like beer in taste...
Oct 28 18:41:20 <dos1> i know, i'm strange :P
Oct 28 18:41:36 <TAsn> nah I don't like beer *that* much either.
Oct 28 18:41:47 <TAsn> but I'm not european, so it's half ok.
Oct 28 18:41:47 <dos1> TAsn: i don't like beer at all ;P
Oct 28 18:41:52 <bumbl> mhm beer
Oct 28 18:41:52 <dos1> and i'm european
Oct 28 18:41:54 <dos1> ;)
Oct 28 18:42:08 <bumbl> mrmoku|away: ping ;)
Oct 28 18:42:12 <TAsn> dos1, you are eastern european, you should like vodka, no beer.
Oct 28 18:42:31 <TAsn> western europeans like beer.
Oct 28 18:42:39 <dos1> well, i started learning programming something about 7 years ago. so i have to be strange ;)
Oct 28 18:42:41 <TAsn> s/no/not/
Oct 28 18:42:53 <dos1> i'm more central european
Oct 28 18:43:05 <dos1> living in western part of poland ;)
Oct 28 18:43:10 <jMcCloud|lunch> cheers! (just great you log onto the dev channel and whitness a discussion about alcohol)
Oct 28 18:43:13 <TAsn> dos1, I'm not that strange and I started learning programming ~13 years ago.
Oct 28 18:43:29 <dos1> TAsn: and how old are you? :P
Oct 28 18:43:34 <TAsn> 21
Oct 28 18:43:42 <dos1> hmm
Oct 28 18:43:46 <dos1> ;)
Oct 28 18:44:08 <dos1> so you're strange too. you just don't know it (yet)
Oct 28 18:44:13 <dos1> :D
Oct 28 18:44:29 <bumbl> dos1: that counts as east nevetheless (bloody iron curtain)
Oct 28 18:44:43 <TAsn> bumbl, ++
Oct 28 18:44:52 <bumbl> jMcCloud|lunch: prost ;)
Oct 28 18:45:10 <TAsn> dos1, actually I'm kinda strange, I enjoy both computers and sports.
Oct 28 18:45:31 <TAsn> I'm the only guy I know who has to decide whether to program or go out surfing on saturday :)
Oct 28 18:45:53 <bumbl> surfing rocks
Oct 28 18:46:15 <khiraly11> wine+strawberry juice+sode is the best
Oct 28 18:46:18 <khiraly11> ;-)
Oct 28 18:46:19 <TAsn> bumbl, :)
Oct 28 18:46:21 <dos1> i was borned in democratic poland (1992), for me those differences are rather historic
Oct 28 18:46:23 <JesusMcCloud> bumbl: nix prost, drinking too much as it is
Oct 28 18:46:43 <dos1> (but in newest history i'm quite interested. and the best polish rock music is from 80s ;))
Oct 28 18:46:45 <bumbl> but as a neo owner i have to say - stay in and get phoneui done
Oct 28 18:47:24 <TAsn> bumbl, hehe, that also has to do with mrmoku|away's surfing habits ;]
Oct 28 18:47:45 <TAsn> dos1, btw, have you tried Weiss's fix for glamo?
Oct 28 18:47:49 <TAsn> works amazingly well :)
Oct 28 18:47:50 <dos1> not
Oct 28 18:47:56 <dos1> TAsn: oh, thanks
Oct 28 18:47:56 <TAsn> why not?
Oct 28 18:48:05 <dos1> TAsn: you reminded me to plug my neo to computer
Oct 28 18:48:10 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn: how to get the fix?
Oct 28 18:48:11 <dos1> as yesterday i forgot
Oct 28 18:48:12 <TAsn> needs a charge?
Oct 28 18:48:15 <dos1> and now my battery is flat
Oct 28 18:48:16 <dos1> :D
Oct 28 18:48:19 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, install the package he supplied earlier.
Oct 28 18:48:29 <TAsn> dos1, you charge it every other day?
Oct 28 18:48:35 <dos1> and i would forgot today too
Oct 28 18:48:39 <dos1> TAsn: every ~2 days
Oct 28 18:48:51 <TAsn> I need to charge it on a daily basis. :|
Oct 28 18:49:00 <dos1> but recently i forgotten it for more days :P
Oct 28 18:49:11 <dos1> and used neo only for alarms
Oct 28 18:49:15 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 18:49:24 <TAsn> oh, you reminded me
Oct 28 18:49:25 <dos1> and only few sms in week ;x
Oct 28 18:49:33 <TAsn> I'm going to turn up ring volume.
Oct 28 18:49:47 <dos1> i want holidays again...
Oct 28 18:50:14 <dos1> now i never have enough time to hack...
Oct 28 18:50:21 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn: do i have to overwrite libdrm2 or keep it when trying Weiss' fix?
Oct 28 18:50:30 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, I overwrote it.
Oct 28 18:50:39 <JesusMcCloud> ok will do so aswell
Oct 28 18:52:20 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn: do you have any other repos activated or did you compile libdrm yourself, cause it's not in the feeds
Oct 28 18:52:33 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, opkg update
Oct 28 18:52:39 <JesusMcCloud> just did it
Oct 28 18:52:44 <TAsn> worked here.
Oct 28 18:52:47 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, actually I think
Oct 28 18:52:53 <TAsn> doing a -no-deps
Oct 28 18:52:58 <TAsn> and keeping the old drm
Oct 28 18:52:58 <JesusMcCloud> ah ok
Oct 28 18:53:01 <TAsn> is good enough.
Oct 28 18:57:00 <vanous> huh, this is fast!
Oct 28 18:57:01 <vanous> good
Oct 28 19:01:25 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: (freeze-time) int button.freezetime = 1000; //ms, 0 means no, <0 refers to an index in a global table of systemwide settings;;;    bool button.freeze-retrigger =  true; //when hitting button during freezetime, then timeout restarts to extend freezetime;;;    button.freeze_callback = &beep-and-vibr; // callback function that's called when button hit during freezetime, to notify user
Oct 28 19:01:51 <TAsn> omg you are crazy ;]
Oct 28 19:02:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: freezetime started on button redraw
Oct 28 19:03:00 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn: i don't have x anymore
Oct 28 19:03:07 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, sounds bad.
Oct 28 19:03:11 <TAsn> want my libdrm?
Oct 28 19:03:23 <JesusMcCloud> it is worth ashot
Oct 28 19:03:45 <TAsn> what's the exact name of the pkg (of libdrm
Oct 28 19:03:46 <TAsn> ?
Oct 28 19:03:52 <bumbl> dos1: memento te hominem esse -  and that means you have to do a lot of things you don't want to ;)
Oct 28 19:03:53 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, when did you make that?
Oct 28 19:04:06 <DocScrutinizer-8> lol, make what?
Oct 28 19:04:21 <DocScrutinizer-8> I just had a shower ;-L
Oct 28 19:04:22 <TAsn> mickeyl, I'm just reminding (hoping you didn't forget about opimd redesign) ;]
Oct 28 19:04:36 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, oh, it looked like if you were working on that for hours.
Oct 28 19:04:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> ;-)
Oct 28 19:04:36 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn: libdrm2 is what i have installed libdrm is what glamo driver wants to install
Oct 28 19:04:50 <TAsn> http://build.shr-project.org/tests/mrmoku/unstable/feed//armv4t/libdrm_2.4.15+gitr4564+67a3eb2188a38a5000af0ad4ac3a0eba43cab574-r1_armv4t.ipk
Oct 28 19:05:29 <mickeyl> TAsn: *nod* page already printed out 
Oct 28 19:05:55 <mickeyl> (/me analog person for some tasks)
Oct 28 19:05:57 <TAsn> mickeyl, printed? bah, tree murderer!
Oct 28 19:06:05 <TAsn> mickeyl, hehe :)
Oct 28 19:06:31 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: actually forgot sth important:  void button->no_freeze(); // disables freezetime for next redraw event;  void button->abort_freeze() //obvious, no? 
Oct 28 19:06:45 <TAsn> yeah.
Oct 28 19:06:59 <vanous> mickeyl: just wanted to add onto that page: allow different sorting of different national character coding  
Oct 28 19:07:13 <mickeyl> vanous: good pointer
Oct 28 19:07:21 <JesusMcCloud> thx TAsn
Oct 28 19:07:26 <TAsn> vanous, so add. ;]
Oct 28 19:07:38 <vanous> it's printed already :)
Oct 28 19:07:41 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, I think we should implement full window freeze, no need for specific button freezing.
Oct 28 19:07:43 <vanous> will do anyways
Oct 28 19:08:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> it's much simpler to implement it to the object prototype once
Oct 28 19:08:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> then you get it for free on all buttons
Oct 28 19:08:48 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, yeah, implement per object and wrap in a per window function.
Oct 28 19:08:58 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, yeah, what I meant.
Oct 28 19:09:33 <TAsn> vanous, that should just work.. (sorting)
Oct 28 19:10:01 <TAsn> as both utf8 and unicode are ordered encodings.
Oct 28 19:10:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: and you might find usecases where you want to have different freezetime for objects sharing same screen
Oct 28 19:10:12 <vanous> TAsn: hmm who was it... mrmoku who commented that it is hardcoded in opimd?
Oct 28 19:10:28 <vanous> TAsn: i am talking about national sorting rules
Oct 28 19:10:35 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, I hardly doubt that, but maybe.
Oct 28 19:11:09 <vanous> i.e. in CZ_cs, "ch" is one character, sorted like this: ...e.f.g.h.ch.i.j....
Oct 28 19:11:10 <TAsn> vanous, I don't think I quite get you. Is there a country where Z comes before A ? (or the equivalent in the national charset)?
Oct 28 19:11:21 <TAsn> omg.
Oct 28 19:11:22 <TAsn> ok.
Oct 28 19:11:27 <vanous> and there is more
Oct 28 19:11:27 <TAsn> my bad then ;)
Oct 28 19:11:34 <vanous> accented letters
Oct 28 19:11:40 <TAsn> yeah, you are right.
Oct 28 19:11:45 <vanous> now they get sorted on the end
Oct 28 19:11:50 <vanous> no worries
Oct 28 19:11:54 <TAsn> forgot about multipurpose chars
Oct 28 19:12:32 <TAsn> hm.. are there any functions for that?
Oct 28 19:12:51 <TAsn> (there probably are, I meant are there any that you can direct me to?)
Oct 28 19:13:08 <vanous> sorry, storytelling time, bbl
Oct 28 19:13:21 <TAsn> vanous, ciao, have fun.
Oct 28 19:13:42 <DocScrutinizer-8> see locale, search for collation sequence...  (iirc)
Oct 28 19:13:54 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, thanks. :)
Oct 28 19:15:45 <khiraly11> you can also specify a custom function when sorting (in python at least)
Oct 28 19:16:28 <DocScrutinizer-8> SQL same
Oct 28 19:16:55 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, in the day opimd will use sql, we'll do that ;]
Oct 28 19:18:51 <khiraly11> I dont get the idea of using SQL at all ...
Oct 28 19:19:21 <TAsn> khiraly11, what don't you get in using a well known, well tested, powerful data querying language for querying data?
Oct 28 19:19:21 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 19:19:32 <TAsn> (language and lib)
Oct 28 19:19:55 <khiraly11> I search through 12MB of text file less then 0.2ms (on laptop) and less then 8ms on the freerunner with pure python
Oct 28 19:20:33 <khiraly11> I can return results while you *type* on your freerunner.
Oct 28 19:20:47 <khiraly11> so yes, I dont get why a full-fletched database required in the first place
Oct 28 19:21:31 <khiraly11> btw the most of the time is spent to fill elementary.entry with the result. And not the actual file opening, searching ...
Oct 28 19:22:10 <TAsn> it's not that simple
Oct 28 19:22:26 <TAsn> but yeah, text files are fast as well.
Oct 28 19:22:36 <TAsn> anyhow, I gtg.
Oct 28 19:22:42 <TAsn> khiraly11, if you have anything to say, write in wiki
Oct 28 19:22:45 <TAsn> I'll respond there
Oct 28 19:22:54 <khiraly11> heh;-)
Oct 28 19:22:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> khiraly11: we're same pahe wrt that (SQL == overkill)
Oct 28 19:23:14 <TAsn> I'm too tired to respond twice (or possibly more)
Oct 28 19:23:22 <DocScrutinizer-8> page
Oct 28 19:23:35 <khiraly11> it use the memory for nothing really useful ..
Oct 28 19:23:59 <khiraly11> we only have 128MB of it.
Oct 28 19:24:12 <khiraly11> anyway its just my point of view
Oct 28 19:24:27 <TAsn> khiraly11, which probably makes sense, so we'd like to hear it
Oct 28 19:24:31 <TAsn> (in the wiki page)
Oct 28 19:24:33 <TAsn> ciao :)
Oct 28 19:24:38 <khiraly11> heh
Oct 28 19:24:41 <khiraly11> which wiki page?
Oct 28 19:24:42 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, works?
Oct 28 19:24:48 <TAsn> khiraly11, opimd_redesign
Oct 28 19:25:08 <khiraly11> I didnt looked deeply in the opimd sourcecode, just gave an outsider opinion
Oct 28 19:25:10 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn: works now testing resume speed)
Oct 28 19:25:17 <TAsn> cool.
Oct 28 19:25:19 <khiraly11> but startup time was scary (20sec)
Oct 28 19:25:20 <TAsn> ciao.
Oct 28 19:25:38 <JesusMcCloud> not as fast as fbdev but way much better!!
Oct 28 19:26:02 <TAsn> Weiss, <JesusMcCloud> not as fast as fbdev but way much better!!
Oct 28 19:26:04 <TAsn> ciao.
Oct 28 19:27:04 <JesusMcCloud> gn8
Oct 28 19:27:16 <Weiss> in resuming, I guess you mean?
Oct 28 19:27:38 <JesusMcCloud> Weiss: resume is way much better!
Oct 28 19:28:17 <JesusMcCloud> Weiss: can't bake a cake for you, but i can give you a golden cookie: http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/990/goldencookiebyevilagram1rr.png
Oct 28 19:28:34 <Weiss> :D
Oct 28 19:43:32 <vanous> my phoneuid is still restarting upon second phoneui app accessing it (Loading phoneuid), is this still like that or is there some workaround known already?
Oct 28 19:43:48 <vanous> mrmoku/unstable
Oct 28 19:56:33 <JesusMcCloud> mrmoku: i made a mockup of the active call screen sketch, but TAsn and DocScrutinizer-8 had too good points to consider it. and if you look at it you'll see that the were right, so probably ertival slider is not the answer -> http://jmccloud.jm.funpic.de/neo/call%20active.png
Oct 28 19:56:44 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: yeah saw it 
Oct 28 19:56:51 * mrmoku just finished reading immense backlog :P
Oct 28 19:57:34 <JesusMcCloud> you're bound to run into problems implementing this design
Oct 28 19:58:01 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: what kind of problems?
Oct 28 19:58:03 <JaMa> NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 9797 tasks of which 8034 didn't need to be rerun and 211 failed.
Oct 28 20:00:40 <JesusMcCloud> woman ->brb
Oct 28 20:05:26 * JesusMcCloud is fucked.
Oct 28 20:06:41 <JesusMcCloud> mrmoku: about desing issues: first problem, where to put the image (in the center -> it won't look centered as teh whole window is asymmetric, to the left, will look centered at first, but a s soon as you look at the whole window you'll realize it is not centered)
Oct 28 20:07:51 <vanous> JesusMcCloud: how about making the volume slider thicker?
Oct 28 20:09:43 <JesusMcCloud> doable but still asymmetric, and hangup-toggel is nice eyecandy, but... well is it more than that?
Oct 28 20:10:21 <vanous> the hangup makes it ugly for me for some reason, but i like the idea 
Oct 28 20:10:26 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: other than eye candy the toggle is a unwanted hangup protection
Oct 28 20:10:39 <mrmoku> (but you had that discussion already)
Oct 28 20:11:02 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: will think about it... also on how to integrate a second incoming call
Oct 28 20:11:35 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: if you have some splendid ideas... feel free to do more mockups :)
Oct 28 20:11:45 <vanous> :)
Oct 28 20:11:50 <JesusMcCloud> i will (creativity is low atm)
Oct 28 20:11:55 <mrmoku> meanwhile I'm off
Oct 28 20:12:00 <mrmoku> yeah mine too :P
Oct 28 20:12:02 <mrmoku> cu
Oct 28 20:15:10 <JesusMcCloud> they're fast, they're organized and they've got my keys, gtg
Oct 28 20:16:08 <TAsn> mrmoku|away, nooooo
Oct 28 20:16:21 <TAsn> mrmoku|away, shit, wanted you to build glamo, as it's fast now :)
Oct 28 20:16:36 <TAsn> vanous, still here?
Oct 28 20:16:44 <TAsn> <vanous> my phoneuid is still restarting upon second phoneui app accessing it (Loading phoneuid), is this still like that or is there some workaround known already?
Oct 28 20:16:46 <[Rui]> TAsn: glamo? fast? miracle?
Oct 28 20:16:55 <TAsn> you are probably using x11-16
Oct 28 20:16:57 <TAsn> which is broken.
Oct 28 20:17:11 <TAsn> [Rui], resume time is no longer super-slow ;]
Oct 28 20:17:27 <[Rui]> TAsn: yayayayay that's so nice!
Oct 28 20:17:33 <[Rui]> TAsn: so no longer 8s? :) great!
Oct 28 20:17:40 <TAsn> no
Oct 28 20:17:41 <TAsn> it's now
Oct 28 20:17:45 <TAsn> ~1 sec
Oct 28 20:17:52 <TAsn> even less (maybe)
Oct 28 20:17:55 <[Rui]> TAsn: is x11-32 faster than x11-16 in shr-u ?
Oct 28 20:18:00 <vanous> still here
Oct 28 20:18:00 <[Rui]> TAsn: that's great news!
Oct 28 20:18:03 <TAsn> [Rui], no.
Oct 28 20:18:11 <TAsn> [Rui], never said that.
Oct 28 20:18:15 <TAsn> vanous, 
Oct 28 20:18:18 <TAsn> <TAsn> you are probably using x11-16
Oct 28 20:18:19 <TAsn> <TAsn> which is broken.
Oct 28 20:18:22 <TAsn> <TAsn> <vanous> my phoneuid is still restarting upon second phoneui app accessing it (Loading phoneuid), is this still like that or is there some workaround known already?
Oct 28 20:18:27 <vanous> i don't 
Oct 28 20:18:34 <vanous> i checked several times
Oct 28 20:18:36 <[Rui]> TAsn: that would surprise me, but I don't see what x11-16 has anything to do with glamo being fast :)
Oct 28 20:18:39 <vanous> unless
Oct 28 20:18:47 <TAsn> [Rui], their are not related
Oct 28 20:18:52 <TAsn> I never said they are
Oct 28 20:18:54 <[Rui]> TAsn: I'm just using it as a workaround but, as raster said, it's quite broen
Oct 28 20:19:03 <TAsn> glamo talks = you
Oct 28 20:19:09 <TAsn> x11-16 talks = vanous
Oct 28 20:19:21 * [Rui] blushes in shame
Oct 28 20:19:46 <TAsn> hehe, it took you a while to understand ;]
Oct 28 20:19:55 <vanous> hmm
Oct 28 20:19:57 <TAsn> and believe me, I tried to tell you. ;]
Oct 28 20:20:03 <vanous> i can see i left export ELM_ENGINE=x11-16 in profile
Oct 28 20:20:13 <TAsn> vanous, :)
Oct 28 20:20:14 <vanous> would that be the culprit?
Oct 28 20:20:23 <vanous> i was still checking illume settings :)
Oct 28 20:20:35 <vanous> this has been lest there since long time ago
Oct 28 20:20:55 <vanous> x restart
Oct 28 20:21:05 <TAsn> vanous, that's it...
Oct 28 20:21:41 <vanous> TAsn: it's been there before shr-settings had that knob to turn it on/off 
Oct 28 20:21:54 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 20:22:15 <vanous> hehe, is woring now :)
Oct 28 20:22:27 <vanous> so i guess i will be able to accept call now :)
Oct 28 20:22:33 <[Rui]> TAsn: well... I'm now anxious to try a test image... now that resume time is fixed, all I need is an image with working phone (at least about as well as current shr-u)
Oct 28 20:22:33 <TAsn> vanous, probably.
Oct 28 20:22:34 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 20:22:37 <vanous> before i don't think it worked
Oct 28 20:22:43 <vanous> not when i tried :)
Oct 28 20:22:52 <TAsn> vanous, well, that's because of x11-16
Oct 28 20:22:53 <TAsn> ...
Oct 28 20:23:05 <TAsn> it's incomplete.
Oct 28 20:23:11 <[Rui]> I'm learning that in the new images I should not be using x11-16 :)
Oct 28 20:23:12 <TAsn> and not stable.
Oct 28 20:23:20 <vanous> i know :)
Oct 28 20:23:24 <TAsn> [Rui], you should never use that crap ;]
Oct 28 20:23:36 <TAsn> raster had a way to make x11-32 faster
Oct 28 20:23:41 <[Rui]> TAsn: I had a huge performance improvement
Oct 28 20:23:41 <vanous> and abandoned 
Oct 28 20:23:42 <TAsn> we need him to explain how.
Oct 28 20:23:49 <vanous> yes
Oct 28 20:23:51 <TAsn> [Rui], same here.
Oct 28 20:24:24 <TAsn> anyhow, ciao.
Oct 28 20:24:32 <TAsn> if you see mrmoku|away please tell him to build glamo :)
Oct 28 20:26:31 <vanous> TAsn: FYI: 
Oct 28 20:26:32 <vanous> 21:21:59.963112 [libphone-ui]         result gave 435 entries
Oct 28 20:26:32 <vanous> 21:22:06.546994 [libphone-ui-shr]     Adding index Š (last letter)
Oct 28 20:27:10 <vanous> 7 seconds of opimd reading, will be good t osee the screen being just hidden :))
Oct 28 20:28:33 <vanous> hmm, seems hidden already, so this is just refresh already u guess 
Oct 28 20:31:50 <Weiss> TAsn: would it help if I cherry-picked the sleep fix onto the master branch?
Oct 28 20:32:09 <TAsn> Weiss, a lot.
Oct 28 20:32:59 <TAsn> vanous, don't worry, we'll make it faster (opimd reading will only happen on phoneuid startup, the rest will just be updates according to opimd signals, so reading time will be 0)
Oct 28 20:33:28 <vanous> :)
Oct 28 20:33:42 <vanous> it's actually working quite fast already
Oct 28 20:33:53 <TAsn> not nearly as fast as we want it to be.
Oct 28 20:34:10 <vanous> sometime i can make it crash, but i will test now, if it wasn't still the X11-16 issue
Oct 28 20:34:18 <TAsn> btw, if opimd will become really fast (i.e work as expected)
Oct 28 20:34:29 <vanous> rewrite?
Oct 28 20:34:32 <TAsn> we probably won't cache anything
Oct 28 20:34:33 <vanous> or redesign
Oct 28 20:34:41 <TAsn> vanous, redesign.
Oct 28 20:34:57 <TAsn> vanous, there's still one issue that may make it crash (one issue that I know of)
Oct 28 20:35:03 <TAsn> but other than that, it's bullet proof here.
Oct 28 20:35:50 <vanous> i think i can make it crash if i try to use the quick index before is like fully loaded or something...
Oct 28 20:35:58 <TAsn> vanous, exactly.
Oct 28 20:36:01 <vanous> :)
Oct 28 20:36:04 <vanous> too bad
Oct 28 20:36:05 <TAsn> <TAsn> vanous, there's still one issue that may make it crash (one issue that I know of)
Oct 28 20:36:06 <TAsn> what I meant.
Oct 28 20:36:15 <TAsn> that'll actually be solved soon though.
Oct 28 20:36:23 <TAsn> (when I'll have time)
Oct 28 20:36:25 <vanous> not a new bug, no cookie for me 
Oct 28 20:36:40 <TAsn> I'll just create the index *after* it finished loading
Oct 28 20:36:44 <TAsn> btw, it's an elementary isue
Oct 28 20:36:45 <TAsn> issue
Oct 28 20:36:50 <vanous> i see
Oct 28 20:36:52 <TAsn> not mine, I'll just add a workaround.
Oct 28 20:39:23 <Weiss> TAsn: done
Oct 28 20:39:40 <TAsn> Weiss, thanks. :)
Oct 28 20:40:01 <TAsn> rebuilding it here, now I'll actually have the patch :)
Oct 28 20:40:16 <TAsn> Weiss, btw, now that you know that it's not as fast as fbdev, got any more ideas?
Oct 28 20:40:57 <TAsn> Weiss, don't get me wrong, you already got yourself a cake, I'm not suggesting cream topping and strawberries.
Oct 28 20:40:58 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 20:41:09 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r37ca116b7e2c 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS: add simple API for sending a text message of unlimited length.
Oct 28 20:41:17 <Weiss> the delays on the command queue (in userspace) and jbt6k74 (in the kernel) could possibly be reduced a bit, maybe
Oct 28 20:42:08 <TAsn> mickeyl, ^ just the API or also the code? if you haven't done the code yet, please consider looking at libphone-utils. (phoneutils_sms_send or something like that)
Oct 28 20:44:15 <mickeyl> TAsn: will definitely look there, but the code is already present (like i said, taken from *f***)
Oct 28 20:44:37 <TAsn> also for split sms? ic.
Oct 28 20:44:42 <TAsn> thought only for single sms.
Oct 28 20:44:48 <TAsn> ok, cool enough.
Oct 28 20:44:50 <mickeyl> no, the whole thing :)
Oct 28 20:45:12 <mickeyl> i just have to create my CMGS commands
Oct 28 20:45:20 <TAsn> I did nothing fancy, just detecting if gsm07 or gotta use unicode, and split accordingly. 
Oct 28 20:46:07 <mickeyl> hmm
Oct 28 20:46:20 <mickeyl> you might be the right one to review "that other code"
Oct 28 20:47:27 <TAsn> I don't mind, though I gotta say, I'm too tired atm, and I'm not willing to look through that ugly piece of code... I'd really prefer to get a gitweb link that points to the correct line ;]
Oct 28 20:47:41 <TAsn> when you have the time, no rush.
Oct 28 20:47:49 <mickeyl> righto
Oct 28 20:48:01 <TAsn> I actually tried looking for it.
Oct 28 20:48:12 <TAsn> though I got a headache from all the mess. :|
Oct 28 21:37:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> oh, so it's not specifically me who's getting headache from reading other coders code then. good, thought there's sth wrong with me
Oct 28 21:53:03 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, I don't mind reading other people's code.
Oct 28 21:53:13 <TAsn> I mind reading code from people who do
Oct 28 21:53:16 <TAsn> x = x;
Oct 28 21:53:17 <TAsn> instead of
Oct 28 21:53:20 <TAsn> (void) x;
Oct 28 21:53:31 <TAsn> when they want to tell the compiler it's fine they didn't use this parameter.
Oct 28 21:53:31 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 21:53:45 <TAsn> btw, I don't think they heard about comments
Oct 28 21:53:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> or if bla() == true
Oct 28 21:54:07 <TAsn> neither about coding conventions (mostly naming conventions)
Oct 28 21:54:20 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, that i hate!
Oct 28 21:55:00 <TAsn> although, bla() != NULL or 0 is sometimes (very rare cases) more clear than the non-verbose alternative.
Oct 28 21:55:07 <DocScrutinizer-8> I tend to suggest if ((bla() == true) == true) then
Oct 28 21:55:51 <TAsn> :|
Oct 28 21:55:53 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 21:55:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> double it to confirm it's *really* true ;-P
Oct 28 21:56:06 <TAsn> I said, in *very* rare cases.
Oct 28 21:57:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: != NULL is a completely different case
Oct 28 21:57:04 <TAsn> I almost exclusively omit the == true.
Oct 28 21:57:04 <TAsn> ;]
Oct 28 21:57:18 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, I know.
Oct 28 21:57:24 <TAsn> == true is plain dumb.
Oct 28 21:57:29 <TAsn> actually, speaking about that.
Oct 28 21:57:29 <DocScrutinizer-8> yep
Oct 28 21:57:40 <TAsn> I once did a university paper
Oct 28 21:57:43 <TAsn> with a friend
Oct 28 21:57:52 <TAsn> which was a c noob
Oct 28 21:58:03 <TAsn> and he consisted to define
Oct 28 21:58:07 <TAsn> TRUE and FALSE
Oct 28 21:58:29 <TAsn> (it was a c89 app, no stdbool.h yet)
Oct 28 21:58:39 <TAsn> and he would never omit the == TRUE
Oct 28 21:58:53 <TAsn> s/would never omit/never omitted/
Oct 28 21:58:54 <apt> TAsn meant: and he never omitted the == TRUE
Oct 28 21:59:03 <TAsn> all the code was filled with
Oct 28 21:59:07 <TAsn> bla() == FALSE
Oct 28 21:59:12 <DocScrutinizer-8> hehe
Oct 28 21:59:13 <TAsn> or  bla() == TRUE>
Oct 28 21:59:18 <TAsn> it was terrible.
Oct 28 21:59:25 <TAsn> I tried to convince him, but he just wouldn't listen
Oct 28 21:59:28 <TAsn> he kept saying.
Oct 28 21:59:38 <TAsn> "who said your way is the only correct way?"
Oct 28 22:00:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> true = false; false = !true; there you are ;-P
Oct 28 22:00:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> eeew, wher's my Aspirin??
Oct 28 22:02:23 <TAsn> bah. :)
Oct 28 22:02:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> also a special foe of mine: neverending if then else if then else if... on a single var, instead of a nice clean case
Oct 28 22:02:44 <TAsn> oh yeah, those are terrible.
Oct 28 22:03:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> or a case with only one value and a catchall
Oct 28 22:03:14 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 22:03:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> (though that's even a minor crime)
Oct 28 22:03:26 <TAsn> those usually come from different cases that shrunk over the years.
Oct 28 22:03:47 <DocScrutinizer-8> yep, or you expect them to grow
Oct 28 22:04:10 <TAsn> yep.
Oct 28 22:05:08 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, seeing programmers that think about future code is rare enough, no need to punish them over such minor offenses.
Oct 28 22:05:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> ack
Oct 28 22:05:51 <TAsn> bah, I miss coding, if I only had the time ;( (haven't coded for almost a week)
Oct 28 22:05:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> I already told I think it's a minor offense
Oct 28 22:06:07 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, yeah, saw that.
Oct 28 22:06:10 <[Rui]> LOL
Oct 28 22:06:23 <[Rui]> I've just read the talk about == :)
Oct 28 22:06:26 <TAsn> hehe.
Oct 28 22:06:26 <[Rui]> and NULL and bools :)
Oct 28 22:06:43 <TAsn> [Rui], btw, since you mentioned bools again.
Oct 28 22:06:47 <TAsn> i think stdbool.h
Oct 28 22:06:58 <TAsn> is the worst thing happened to C after 
Oct 28 22:07:02 <TAsn> //
Oct 28 22:07:04 <TAsn> comments
Oct 28 22:07:12 <[Rui]> TAsn: stdbool.h what? :)
Oct 28 22:07:36 <TAsn> http://www.squarebox.co.uk/cgi-squarebox/manServer/usr/share/man/man0p/stdbool.h.0p
Oct 28 22:07:43 <[Rui]> I just tend to do 0 == false, not zero == true, or use some API's defaults (like Eina_Bool or glib's equivalent, etc...
Oct 28 22:07:48 <[Rui]> TAsn: I was kidding! :)
Oct 28 22:08:14 <[Rui]> TAsn: I'd answer you "win what?" if you asked me sth about Windows ;)
Oct 28 22:08:20 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 22:08:32 <TAsn> [Rui], yeah, got that after you said: <[Rui]> TAsn: I was kidding! :)
Oct 28 22:08:39 <TAsn> missed the ":)" on the first time :|
Oct 28 22:09:53 <[Rui]> *giggle*
Oct 28 22:10:15 <[Rui]> did you guys see that wikireader is 7th on Amazon's electronic gadgets? wow...
Oct 28 22:10:25 <TAsn> link.
Oct 28 22:10:31 <DocScrutinizer-8> muuuhaaaahaahahaazahhaaa
Oct 28 22:10:32 <TAsn> please. ;)
Oct 28 22:10:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> inCREDIBLE
Oct 28 22:11:22 <[Rui]> http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172594/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_3_last
Oct 28 22:11:28 <TAsn> I'm happy to see this succeeds, as I really like OM, although they did many mistakes in the past, they have good heart (well, producing an open source phone should not be taken for granted)
Oct 28 22:11:29 <[Rui]> 13 days in the top 100  
Oct 28 22:11:39 <TAsn> how many units sold so far?
Oct 28 22:12:06 <[Rui]> no idea, but what seemed like a "nice idea, but not for me" for many, seems to actually be selling :)
Oct 28 22:12:13 <TAsn> [Rui], no kindle there?
Oct 28 22:12:15 <[Rui]> unlike the Neos
Oct 28 22:12:20 <DocScrutinizer-8> in Germany we got a dogfood some years ago, called "Cesar".  Sold same shit half volume for 3 times the price. Somewhat I feel like deja vu
Oct 28 22:12:30 <TAsn> [Rui], I agree with "nice idea, but not for me"
Oct 28 22:12:44 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, :)
Oct 28 22:13:45 <[Rui]> TAsn: no, really,.. not for most geeks, but it seems many find it interesting
Oct 28 22:14:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> actually it is. I can tell as I co-developed it ;-) Nevertheless I know it's not worth the almost 100 bucks
Oct 28 22:14:48 <TAsn> [Rui], I guess that's because I have an ebook reader + wikipedia reader in my pocket all the time
Oct 28 22:14:51 <TAsn> (moko)
Oct 28 22:15:16 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, I know you have.
Oct 28 22:15:37 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, well, a lot of things don't worth their price.
Oct 28 22:15:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> yep
Oct 28 22:16:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> price always a function of market, never of production cost
Oct 28 22:16:26 <TAsn> exactly what I started to write
Oct 28 22:16:33 <TAsn> but I guess you type faster than me ;)
Oct 28 22:16:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> which is quite amazing, on my N810
Oct 28 22:17:17 <TAsn> ass, I'm already ashamed as is, no need to rub it in. ;)
Oct 28 22:17:24 <[Rui]> TAsn: a "major" politician in the TI area of the Portuguese government thought it was «really interesting»
Oct 28 22:17:28 <[Rui]> I'm trying to find the link
Oct 28 22:17:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> unless you type on a Pre or FR ;-P
Oct 28 22:17:34 <[Rui]> but it's been a success on twitter
Oct 28 22:17:41 <TAsn> [Rui], really?!
Oct 28 22:17:42 <TAsn> wow.
Oct 28 22:17:50 <TAsn> I'm truly amazed.
Oct 28 22:19:26 <TAsn> anyhow, it's time for me to go.
Oct 28 22:19:48 <TAsn> I'll read a bit about calculus (taking the advance calculus course this semester)
Oct 28 22:19:51 <TAsn> and then I'll go to bed.
Oct 28 22:19:53 <TAsn> ciao.
Oct 28 22:20:08 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer-8, btw, I type on a full size keyboard.
Oct 28 22:20:19 <TAsn> s/type/typed/
Oct 28 22:20:19 <apt> TAsn meant: DocScrutinizer-8, btw, I typed on a full size keyboard.
Oct 28 22:20:35 <TAsn> which is very unfortunate.
Oct 28 22:20:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> you're not used to it ;-)
Oct 28 22:21:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> switch to illume-kbd
Oct 28 22:21:20 <DocScrutinizer-8> prolly you're faster then 
Oct 28 22:21:21 <[Rui]> http://twitter.com/rgrilo/status/4829977172 => really interesting, rt @RuiSeabra wikipedia on your hands, offline and more ecological
Oct 28 22:21:24 <TAsn> :)
Oct 28 22:24:26 <TAsn> mickeyl, I don't know if you do it already (and to tell you the truth I gtg so I'm don't have time to check) but I really think the release call signal should include information about who released the call, the user or the other end/network/modem failure. this is useful for knowing if a call was missed or just rejected.
Oct 28 22:24:30 <TAsn> ciao again.
Oct 28 22:25:23 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: super point
Oct 28 22:25:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: night fella
Oct 28 22:26:28 <[Rui]> TAsn: good night, good luck with calculus :)
Oct 28 22:26:34 <[Rui]> not sure I miss that :)
Oct 28 22:26:42 <[Rui]> (not with my teachers)
Oct 28 22:26:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> TAsn: you really should have close look at twinklephone
Oct 28 22:27:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> could give you some inspiration
Oct 28 22:28:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> here particularly twinkle phonelog and the data logged there (termination rreason)
Oct 28 22:34:41 <Sharwin_F> is there finally a new unstable image out there?
Oct 28 22:35:17 <Sharwin_F> (one which works ? :D)
Oct 28 22:37:48 <CIA-26> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r240da84fbc18 10/fsogsmd/ (7 files in 4 dirs): fsogsmd: more work on SMS PDU
Oct 28 22:38:07 <mickey|zzZZzz> TAsn: (more info for release signal) i agree and this will be present in fsogsmd
Oct 28 22:51:47 <Weiss> TAsn, larsc, mrmoku|away et al.: I just merged the KMS branch of xf86-video-glamo into master, and made the compilation of the KMS parts optional with --enable-kms. Without that option, the driver should be exactly as before. With it, you get the new setup which supports both (depending on kernel), but you need the libdrm bits to make it build or run.
Oct 28 22:53:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> Weiss: that's a nice bit actually
Oct 28 22:53:53 <JaMa> Weiss: thank.. I'll switch branch in OE repo then :)
Oct 28 22:55:17 <Weiss> ideally it would determine everything at runtime, but that's a lot of work..
Oct 28 22:57:09 <JaMa> Weiss: any news about drm kernel patch?
Oct 28 22:57:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> not quite sure about my notion regarding "at runtime". There are good points for keeping all redundant stuff out of runtime env
Oct 28 22:57:19 <[Rui]> 4th place now
Oct 28 22:57:26 <[Rui]> skyrocketing success
Oct 28 22:58:00 <DocScrutinizer-8> that's really amazing
Oct 28 22:58:35 <[Rui]> even if it doesn't stay there for a long time, it'll probably already outsold all Neo's altoghether
Oct 28 22:59:08 <DocScrutinizer-8> rui: you should add a link to #openmoko-wikireader chan-topic ;-)
Oct 28 22:59:29 <[Rui]> but the positive reviews are also great. 
Oct 28 22:59:38 <[Rui]> DocScrutinizer: sorry, I didn't know that existed :)
Oct 28 23:03:30 <khiraly1> lol
Oct 28 23:03:52 <khiraly1> I couldn't imagine how the hell would buy such a limited device
Oct 28 23:04:08 <Weiss> what's the procedure to create a new Git repository on git.openmoko.org these days? I think perhaps it's time to put the libdrm bits in the same place as xf86-video-glamo
Oct 28 23:19:46 <TAsn> take a look: http://digg.com/tech_news/Why_open_clouds_are_more_important_than_open_phones
Oct 28 23:19:52 <TAsn> I'm off again, night. :)
Oct 28 23:27:32 <Weiss> JaMa: it's on my list. it's just my list is quite large at the moment. but I'm getting through it..
Oct 28 23:27:44 <Weiss> hmm.. the KMS path just became segfaulty for no apparent reason
Oct 28 23:40:57 <DocScrutinizer> (keeping all redundant stuff out of runtime) yes udev, that for you as well
Oct 29 00:07:17 <pieterc> Is Sean actually still keeping track of openmoko?
Oct 29 00:07:53 <pieterc> It might be nice if he'd come to fosdem
Oct 29 00:08:19 <pieterc> Oh, I'll send him an e-mail
Oct 29 01:24:12 <m0nt0> bye all!!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 29 02:59:57 2009