**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 13 02:59:57 2010 Jan 13 06:31:18 ohhh.... disappointing backlog ;) Jan 13 08:03:37 mrmoku|away: why? :) Jan 13 08:16:14 * DocScrutinizer51 yawns and moans Jan 13 09:34:22 ~botsnck Jan 13 09:34:31 ~botsnack Jan 13 09:34:31 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer51 Jan 13 09:37:22 * Weiss wibbles Jan 13 09:39:07 * JaMa giggles Jan 13 09:40:21 DocScrutinizer51: morning :) Jan 13 09:40:30 morning Jan 13 09:42:55 christel knows how to scare people Jan 13 10:10:04 hi Jan 13 10:10:28 i'm having problems updating my package list in SHR :S Jan 13 10:10:39 any idea? Jan 13 10:17:42 Pepe__: best idea is to solve the problem Jan 13 10:17:57 lol Jan 13 10:18:02 lol Jan 13 10:18:07 Pepe__, describe the problem more precisely Jan 13 10:18:13 honestly. which answer do you expect? Jan 13 10:18:31 DocScrutinizer51, please be polite :P Jan 13 10:18:33 :D Jan 13 10:18:54 sorry. first coffee not yet kicked in Jan 13 10:18:58 when i make the "opkg update" it returns me a "Couldn't resolve the hostname" Jan 13 10:19:24 now we,re talking Jan 13 10:20:04 DNS issue Jan 13 10:20:08 Pepe__: i guess the answer is obvious... Jan 13 10:20:26 check /etc/resolv.conf Jan 13 10:21:10 make sure a 'ping ct.de' from FR terminal succeeds Jan 13 10:21:13 there are two nameserver Jan 13 10:21:26 i have to change them to min? Jan 13 10:21:29 mine? Jan 13 10:22:01 DocScrutinizer51: it's hard to be polite sometimes, heh Jan 13 10:22:14 lol Jan 13 10:22:19 i understand :) Jan 13 10:23:27 abybody has the freeDNS IPs for Pepe__ offhand? Jan 13 10:23:27 if i ping my router i don't recive anything :S Jan 13 10:24:04 Pepe__: setup your routing on host Jan 13 10:25:03 * DocScrutinizer51 sighs and points to #openmoko, the polite users over there and the instructive chan topic Jan 13 10:26:22 oks thanks ;) Jan 13 10:28:08 i know the problem now... i don't have internet connection on Neo... Jan 13 10:28:37 Pepe__: :-)) Jan 13 10:29:25 so check wiki for that. If any questions then #openmoko should be a good place to get help Jan 13 10:29:40 ok :) Jan 13 10:30:01 thanks Jan 13 10:30:39 Pepe__: welcome Jan 13 10:31:07 my last question... Jan 13 10:31:34 if the wifi in the neo is not available how can i get connection? Jan 13 10:32:25 in the oder channel are helping me :) Jan 13 10:32:29 thanks! bye Jan 13 10:36:52 Hi all, how to enable rtc for wakeup events ? any clue ? Jan 13 10:37:26 satish: rtcwake -s 50 -m no Jan 13 10:38:14 lindi : root@om-gta02 ~ $ rtcwake -s 50 -m no Jan 13 10:38:15 rtcwake: /dev/rtc not enabled for wakeup events Jan 13 10:38:38 lindi : getting error Jan 13 10:38:54 satish: it still works Jan 13 10:39:33 i mean .....it is working but show not enabled for wakeup events.....so can u help me how to enable it for wakeup events Jan 13 10:39:42 satish: it is enabled Jan 13 10:40:18 lindi : if i again issue Jan 13 10:40:21 root@om-gta02 ~ $ rtcwake -s 50 -m standby rtcwake: /dev/rtc not enabled for wakeup events Jan 13 10:40:34 not going into standby mode Jan 13 10:40:46 satish: well don't use -m standby :) Jan 13 10:41:07 i need it for an experiment Jan 13 10:41:32 satish: -m standby? i am sure you can suspend with "pm-suspend" Jan 13 10:42:04 root@om-gta02 ~ $ pm-suspend -sh: pm-suspend: not found Jan 13 10:42:55 satish: probably not in shr, you need to ask frameword to suspend for you Jan 13 10:45:52 linid : able to do with apm -s Jan 13 10:46:39 lindi : but don't have control to resume in this utility like rtcwake give control with -s option Jan 13 10:48:19 satish: rtcwake -s 50 -m no ; pm-suspend Jan 13 10:48:23 satish: rtcwake -s 50 -m no ; apm -s Jan 13 10:48:29 satish: rtcwake -s 50 -m no ; dbus-send ...... Jan 13 10:48:35 satish: all those should work Jan 13 10:48:49 satish: rtcwake -s 50 -m no ; echo mem > /sys/power/state Jan 13 10:50:47 * DocScrutinizer51 suggests fso-at Jan 13 10:51:24 lindi : those working and my system is going down but not coming up as i mentioned in -s option with seconds Jan 13 10:51:25 rtcwake will interfere with fso one nasty day Jan 13 10:52:12 lindi : i required to press the power button to comeout from standby mode Jan 13 10:52:35 satish: that might be caused by frameworkd also meddling with.RTCalarm Jan 13 10:52:57 lindi : is it possible to generate power button press event without press Jan 13 10:53:05 thus overriding your rtcwake settings Jan 13 10:54:10 DocScrutinizer51 : my intension is to measure active to standby and standby to active mode transition time measurement Jan 13 10:54:21 user is discourraged to touch RTC directly on systems running FSO Jan 13 10:54:26 is it possible to get that -m standby to work Jan 13 10:54:42 DocScrutinizer51 : oh is it ? Jan 13 10:56:30 DocScrutinizer51 : in my application i want to keep system on / off for every 5 seconds and measure the power consumption Jan 13 10:57:20 DocScrutinizer51 ; that to in ACPI -S1-standby mode only not S3-mem / S4-disk modes Jan 13 10:57:34 satish: see, frameworkd allows multiple scheduled alarms and it handles a list of alarms and manages the RTC to make your alarm go off no matter if suspended or not. You mustn't interfere with that on low hw level, via rtcwake etc Jan 13 10:59:33 i.e on systems running FSO framework you have to use dbus call or fso-atd. rtcwake and the like is taboo Jan 13 11:00:18 DocScrutinizer51 : ok... Jan 13 11:00:46 DocScrutinizer51 : let me try those Jan 13 11:01:13 satish: check docs at freesmartphone.org Jan 13 11:02:31 satish: check ffalarms app. It's doing those things the right way Jan 13 11:05:55 ok Jan 13 11:11:46 satish: btw unless it's a homework for school or part of your master thesis it might be wise to disclose the *final* goal of your project rather than struggling thru clock() amd rtcwake. The advice you'll get will be much more to the point, saving you from quite some deadend pathes possibly Jan 13 11:17:47 DocScrutinizer51: i have exactly such scripts that use rtcwake Jan 13 11:17:52 DocScrutinizer51 : yes, your correct but this thesis is little sensitive and proprietary Jan 13 11:17:58 satish: i have exactly such scripts that use rtcwake Jan 13 11:18:00 DocScrutinizer51: sorry :) Jan 13 11:18:06 satish: how does rtcwake fail? Jan 13 11:18:39 root@om-gta02 ~ $ rtcwake -s 1 -m standby rtcwake: /dev/rtc not enabled for wakeup events Jan 13 11:18:53 lindi : as above Jan 13 11:19:13 lindi-: your approach to use fso as less as possible usually won't pan out Jan 13 11:19:27 DocScrutinizer51: thanks for the positive encouragement :) Jan 13 11:20:06 satish: but is that error just bogus? Jan 13 11:20:11 lindi-: honestly if you use a toolbox you quite usually need to stick with it Jan 13 11:20:13 satish: what's in rtc* file in sys? Jan 13 11:20:34 DocScrutinizer51: well i'm planning to get rid of ogsmd if i just had the time :) Jan 13 11:20:45 DocScrutinizer51: it will be deprecated soon anyway Jan 13 11:21:39 lindi-: so either you suggest to satish to completely shutdown framework and basically use a barebones debian as you do. then you may manage all things lowlevel via /sys Jan 13 11:22:15 DocScrutinizer51: it does not need to be so black and white. i can use only ogsmd for now Jan 13 11:22:29 DocScrutinizer51: and i won't touch sys directly. I use the libomhacks0 library Jan 13 11:22:58 lindi-: or you don't abuse satish's time by 'reverse engineering' what frameworkd does and simply stick with te fso alarm calls Jan 13 11:23:14 DocScrutinizer51: well i don't remember the api method names :) Jan 13 11:24:25 DocScrutinizer51: if you do, please tell satish Jan 13 11:25:05 lindi : in sys Jan 13 11:25:08 root@om-gta02 ~ $ ls /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/ date device name since_epoch time dev max_user_freq power subsystem uevent Jan 13 11:25:21 I think I gave comprehensive advice how to use RTC alarms Jan 13 11:25:30 satish: wrong file i think sorry Jan 13 11:25:42 satish: maybe it was in /proc Jan 13 11:26:03 satish: please forget /sys as long as frameworkd is running Jan 13 11:26:19 also forget /proc Jan 13 11:26:33 and forget rtcwake :l together Jan 13 11:26:52 as FSO uses all those exclusively for RTC Jan 13 11:27:00 as I explained above Jan 13 11:27:06 lindi : root@om-gta02 ~ $ cat /proc/driver/rtc rtc_time : 04:34:47 rtc_date : 2000-01-02 24hr : yes Jan 13 11:27:58 lindi : DocScrutinizer51 : able to see rtc time and date but no alarm related stuff Jan 13 11:28:22 as on my desktop Jan 13 11:28:45 satish: if you can change the alarm time in /proc/driver/rtc then it should work Jan 13 11:29:03 satish: you understand the concept of FSO middleware? Jan 13 11:29:05 but my desktop pc has something like this : Jan 13 11:29:09 root@satish-desktop:/home/satish/shr/shr-testing# cat /proc/driver/rtc rtc_time : 16:58:40 rtc_date : 2010-01-13 alrm_time : 16:07:36 alrm_date : ****-**-12 alarm_IRQ : no alrm_pending : no 24hr : yes periodic_IRQ : no update_IRQ : no HPET_emulated : no DST_enable : no periodic_freq : 1024 batt_status : okay Jan 13 11:29:40 satish: $ cat /proc/driver/rtc | nc paste.dyndns.org 1234 Jan 13 11:29:41 http://paste.debian.net/56535/ Jan 13 11:30:04 satish: with andy-tracking-a15608f241a40b41 Jan 13 11:30:51 * DocScrutinizer51 utter swearwords and curses and turns away for more refunding thiings than talking to terrorists trying to spoil a clean concept Jan 13 11:32:32 DocScrutinizer51: non-fso people are terrorists now? ;)) Jan 13 11:32:41 ping me when in 8h you finally find frameworkd overwrites whatever you set RTC alarm to, on going to suspend Jan 13 11:33:09 and make my day giving me a laugh Jan 13 11:33:27 DocScrutinizer51: sorry ya.... i didn't know much on fso framework Jan 13 11:33:59 DocScrutinizer51: let me understand how it works Jan 13 11:36:42 lindi : i will try this in quick for testing and if not works let me think in fso framework wise Jan 13 11:42:13 lindi-: people giving wrong advice for procedures on frameworkd based systems, just to state after hours ' hah I knew FSO doesn,t work' clearly are saboteurs destroying FSO reputation Jan 13 11:44:51 DocScrutinizer51: oh? Jan 13 11:53:55 libfsosaboteurs0 would be way better name though :) Jan 13 11:56:47 lindi-: sorry I was a little harsh. Still I think it's not really helpful for satish to try and *fight* fso. Either suggest to shutdown framework to do it the classic way which probably is rather simple and straightforward then. Or keep fingers off all /sys and rtcwake and the like and fully *cooperate* and exploit frameworkd Jan 13 11:57:48 DocScrutinizer51: well, afaict fso doesn't currently touch RTC if not explicitly asked to, so i guess lindi-'s advices shouldn't cause any harm. Jan 13 11:59:10 PaulFertser: I'm not sure about that. Anyway even when this holds true you can't simply assume nobody actually *did* ask frameworkd to schedule a alarm Jan 13 11:59:41 DocScrutinizer51: well, you warned satish in advance, so it was up to him to not run anything that can ask frameworkd. Jan 13 12:00:11 fighting about settings of a lowlevel hw resource *alway* is a bad idea Jan 13 12:03:23 DocScrutinizer51: yep, libomhacks-dev headers are full of warnings about this :) Jan 13 12:05:53 well fellas. Made my point (which btw is a sequel to my suggestions for augmenting FSO alarms handling e.g. by providing a *virtual* lowlevel RTCalarm node). Seems I should get a break and a brunch as my mood tends to be below par today Jan 13 12:09:16 * sybren agrees with DocScrutinizer51 about low-level resources Jan 13 12:51:57 anyone tried hildon widgets on FR? Jan 13 12:52:00 on SHR... Jan 13 12:52:35 daniele_athome: maemo uses a gtk fork, so they won't work ootb Jan 13 12:55:21 PaulFertser, I guess that gtk fork is optimized for embedded devices Jan 13 12:55:37 do you know if it's binary compatible with original gtk? Jan 13 12:56:24 daniele_athome: no idea about the details. Jan 13 12:56:30 ok Jan 13 13:03:04 (fork) still? Jan 13 13:03:23 i thought they brought everything necessary upstream during the 2.8/2.10 series Jan 13 13:03:26 *shrug* Jan 13 13:05:25 hildon was removed from debian last year because it did not work with gtk stuff in debian anymore Jan 13 13:05:51 interesting Jan 13 13:06:04 what happened to the hildon-desktop project that was supposed to bring it to x86? Jan 13 13:07:05 mickey|sofa: i guess they're abandoning everything gtk- to move to Qt in Maemo 6. Jan 13 13:07:35 mickey|sofa: with Qt they won't have problems convincing upstream in the necessity of some questionable patches anymore :) Jan 13 13:08:31 yep Jan 13 13:08:41 that's a ... good ... strategy Jan 13 13:09:04 it's somewhat bad for gtk, but well... Jan 13 13:10:54 mickey|sofa: lol. and ohla Jan 13 13:11:13 morning doc Jan 13 13:13:01 mickey|sofa: btw. how,s your foot meanwhile? Jan 13 13:14:50 DocScrutinizer51: thanks for asking, normal walking is fine, last wednesday i stood the first time on the table for table tennis and although it felt a bit strange and I'm not confident enough for very fast steps, i think it's ok. I will refrain from Squash for another couple of weeks though. so all in all, much better and hopefully in a few weeks back to normal Jan 13 13:20:10 mickey|sofa: pleased to hear Jan 13 13:20:43 :) Jan 13 13:21:23 mickey|sofa: yeah it takes a time to get confident about normal reliability again. Anyway I found ignoring it most of the time served best for me Jan 13 13:21:55 true, i just don't want to stress it too much at once Jan 13 13:22:03 sure Jan 13 13:22:10 sensible approach Jan 13 13:26:03 mickey|sofa: I did a lot of 'gymnastics' like during sitting. Or intentionaly ballancing while walking etc Jan 13 13:26:43 guess i should do something like that as well, might help revitalizing the muscles etc. Jan 13 13:26:56 yep Jan 13 13:35:03 mrmoku: .. more updates wrt -cworth.. merger in opkg, new busybox is back, new images should be without -cworth Jan 13 13:36:34 messybox is back. Ahh that makes my day ;) Jan 13 13:37:05 * JaMa hides Jan 13 13:37:46 * DocScrutinizer51 pets JaMa Jan 13 13:37:59 JaMa: in feed already? Jan 13 13:38:00 maybe box will fail to rsync to feed.. and die somewhere in pipe between.. Jan 13 13:38:12 mrmoku: do_rootfs now.. (still :)) Jan 13 13:38:41 JaMa: we should check for another EFL bump too - broken sliders are annoying :| Jan 13 13:38:46 mrmoku: would be nice if you can confirm that opkg postinst was executed first (before busybox's) Jan 13 13:39:02 JaMa: just ping me when it hit the feed and I will try Jan 13 13:39:07 great Jan 13 13:39:42 DocScrutinizer51: btw... had another WSOD today... and (again) I have the feeling that it does not like the cold Jan 13 13:39:47 i've tried psplash :D very nice look with om2008 openmoko splash :) Jan 13 13:40:21 mrmoku: relation tween cold and WSOD is wellknown and confirmed Jan 13 13:40:28 * JaMa doesn't like the cold too... especially when I'm all white.. Jan 13 13:41:44 * mrmoku remembers DocScrutinizer51 trying to reproduce WSOD in a Taipeh fridge :P Jan 13 13:42:18 still I'm kinda depressed my recommendation to fix WSOD for good didn't make it into production kernel for over a year now Jan 13 13:44:09 DocScrutinizer51: what is the relation between cold and wsod, i fail to see what it could be :/ Jan 13 13:44:17 or maybe it simply failed - but I don't think so Jan 13 13:44:40 DocScrutinizer51: for me you would need to dicatate it regexp by regexp :).. I've read whole discussion between you and Weiss and didn't get much with my small kernel knowledge.. :) Jan 13 13:45:02 s/:)/:(/ Jan 13 13:45:03 JaMa meant: DocScrutinizer51: for me you would need to dicatate it regexp by regexp :(.. I've read whole discussion between you and Weiss and didn't get much with my small kernel knowledge.. :) Jan 13 13:48:17 JaMa: well I'm almost 24/7 here so any interested party could ask me Jan 13 13:49:36 DocScrutinizer51: I know you're crazy insomniac and we like you for that :) Jan 13 14:24:40 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r735b75a11842 10/fsogsmd/ (src/ppp/Makefile.am src/ppp/plugin.vala vapi/ppp.vapi): fsogsmd: ppp: once ipcp negotiation is complete, gather the necessary information from ppp and submit to fsogsmd Jan 13 14:30:47 mrmoku: ping (rsynced) Jan 13 14:31:29 ok, new way for networking: ppp will no longer change any routes on its own. it will rather report to fsogsmd, which in turn will then hand this over to fsonetworkd, which then will decide -- based on user preferences -- which of the available "network providers" will be chosen for the default route Jan 13 14:32:24 that way we can implement things like - "if wifi is available, always prefer this over gsm" Jan 13 14:32:28 or Jan 13 14:32:28 * Weiss really wants to implement DocScrutinizer51's stuff, but is really struggling for time at the moment (just so you know the intention is there..) Jan 13 14:32:45 "if usb is available, only use this for a certain route" Jan 13 14:32:57 plus anything outside the Glamo 2D/3D engine is a little outside my specialist area Jan 13 14:35:33 JaMa: ok Jan 13 14:35:37 * mrmoku searches his FR Jan 13 14:40:36 JaMa: hmm... http://shr.pastebin.com/m70604fe5 Jan 13 14:40:49 opkg configure came before busybox configure... but not first Jan 13 14:42:44 mrmoku: as long as its before busybox its ok Jan 13 14:43:05 mrmoku: hopefully its decided in some deterministic way Jan 13 14:43:20 JaMa: yeah, but might as well just be random luck :P Jan 13 14:45:48 mrmoku: found small issue with buildhost.. still -cworth in staging.. so last full image will still run merger with first upgrade.., building -lite now Jan 13 14:50:29 JaMa: good work :-) Jan 13 14:50:43 * mrmoku is way toooo busy with daywork :( Jan 13 14:53:00 * JaMa was 14hours at work yesterday.. hopefully today will be better :) Jan 13 14:54:32 JaMa: like 24h at work, saving the useless time for traveling to/from office? :-) Jan 13 14:55:49 DocScrutinizer51: today morning while travelling to work I was thinking about looking for a job where I can work from home.. :) Jan 13 14:56:50 JaMa: as mickey|sofa about that way to organize your life. He opted out Jan 13 14:57:07 * mrmoku works mostly from home... and enjoys that Jan 13 14:57:52 mrmoku: for some characters it works, for others not. Also deped on type of work you're doing Jan 13 14:58:11 DocScrutinizer51: for sure it has big disadvantages too, yes Jan 13 14:59:42 for sure it needs lots of disipline and competence to structure your day to make that work@home a success story Jan 13 15:01:17 yeah but with 2 hours distracted more at home then at office .. I could still save some time then spending 2 useless hours a day Jan 13 15:01:59 well I should just shutdown workstation at home before going to work if I care about distractions :) Jan 13 15:14:29 the best thing is freedom, really. i have an office away from home and am happy to use it like, 4 out of 5 workdays per week. All the week at home didn't really rock, esp. since I'm alone here, that may change when Sabine goes freelancing in April. The good thing is i don't _have_ to go to the office, which makes it -- especially when you have weather or health conditions -- very convenient Jan 13 15:32:19 busy with daywork!!!! here too :-( Jan 13 15:34:46 yo stefan_schmidt Jan 13 15:34:48 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb300e8c86526 10/README: update README Jan 13 15:37:05 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r31c8ccc76881 10/misc-vapi/.gitignore: gitignore++ Jan 13 15:40:45 stefan_schmidt: hey. long time no see :-) Jan 13 15:42:23 hi mickey|sofa Jan 13 15:42:26 hi DocScrutinizer-8 Jan 13 15:43:00 DocScrutinizer-8: right, IM an IRC abstinent for quite some time Jan 13 15:48:40 stefan_schmidt: morphis told me I should work on the pre audio routing. You already did something on that, right? Can you recap the latest status or point me to a link to the relevant info? Jan 13 15:50:31 mickey|sofa: Status is that I figured out the wierd scripts loading into kernel interface but wasn't able to trigger what I wanted them to do Jan 13 15:51:01 mickey|sofa: It seems that they enable/disable gsm audio by enabling/disbaling the codec Jan 13 15:51:19 mickey|sofa: But the twl4030 PMIC is a real beast Jan 13 15:51:41 mickey|sofa: Would need to figure out more before we could get audio Jan 13 15:51:59 mickey|sofa: Still I think it will be easier then modem signalling Jan 13 15:52:02 signaling Jan 13 15:52:40 mickey|sofa: if a dbus call returns a "variant" what is that in vala? Jan 13 15:52:58 spaetz_: sounds like a GLib.Value Jan 13 15:53:04 ok, thanks will try Jan 13 15:53:40 stefan_schmidt: hmm, ok, that doesn#t sound like i could quickly write a plugin that does the appropriate things to simulate stereoout, gsmhandset, etc. Jan 13 15:53:52 mickey|sofa: btw, after a few months knee-deep in vala, how much do you like it ? Jan 13 15:54:23 mickey|sofa: nope, I don't think so Jan 13 15:54:40 stefan_schmidt: hmm, bummer. that sounded differently when i talked to morphis Jan 13 15:54:42 *sigh* Jan 13 15:54:58 mickey|sofa: I stopped working things out as modem signaling was falling behind and I'm lazy, you know... Jan 13 15:55:02 wpwrak: the instability-through-immaturity aside, it's the best language I have worked with since long Jan 13 15:55:20 stefan_schmidt: true, but it seems morphis is shortly before a breakthrough wrt that. Jan 13 15:55:29 judging from the commits to msmcommd Jan 13 15:55:30 wpwrak: You are searching for a C replacement? :) Jan 13 15:55:54 mickey|sofa: Aren't RE projects that always? ;) Jan 13 15:56:03 hmm, yeah Jan 13 15:56:23 mickey|sofa: if implementing something you would be very comfortable doing in c, would the comfort level be equivalent in vala or would you miss something ? Jan 13 15:56:58 stefan_schmidt: i'm considering going a bit more OO for fped. there's a ton of gtk in there. Jan 13 15:57:10 wpwrak: not at all. Vala implements most things you can do in C, some of the syntax is even compatible Jan 13 15:57:32 stefan_schmidt: in fact, almost all the difficult stuff is gui. can't we just return to tty and avoid all that mess ? :) Jan 13 15:57:42 wpwrak: hmm, how does OO and GTK match? ;) Jan 13 15:57:43 stefan_schmidt: judging from the messages to maemo-list, controlling audio routing will be a nightmare on the N900 as well Jan 13 15:57:46 * stefan_schmidt hides :) Jan 13 15:58:10 mickey|sofa: N900, I bet Jan 13 15:58:25 Same PMIC and even more advanced usage from them Jan 13 15:58:38 mickey|sofa: how about static functions ? say, you have a method and you want to break it into smaller pieces. can you do this locally, like in C, or do you have to declare every single piece with global visibility (although limited access), like in C++ ? Jan 13 15:58:50 * stefan_schmidt remembers the RT thread for PA doing echo stuff on the AP Jan 13 15:59:22 stefan_schmidt: they make you at least search for the things affecting objects of a certain class as much as they do in OO systems :) Jan 13 15:59:47 wpwrak: yeah Jan 13 15:59:56 wpwrak: there are both file-wide, namespace-wide, class-wide, and and global-wide scopes Jan 13 16:00:09 wpwrak: Your moving went well? Jan 13 16:02:18 stefan_schmidt: reconstruction work is still in full swing. takes much longer than i thought :-( (two bathrooms, one kitchen, along with most of the gas and water piping) Jan 13 16:03:34 wpwrak: huh, I thought about moving, not building? Jan 13 16:03:36 mickey|sofa: also for methods ? so you can break a method X into two functions X and Y, each acting like a method, where Y is only declared (and defined) in the .c (or whatever is the vala equivalent) file ? Jan 13 16:04:01 no partial methods Jan 13 16:04:05 no partial classes Jan 13 16:04:19 but partial namespaces Jan 13 16:04:41 stefan_schmidt: well, some stuff is old, looks bad, and may not function properly. e.g., the windows (balcony-sized) rattled and let water through in storms. we have quite a few storms this summer. Jan 13 16:05:32 wpwrak: ok, so you are planning long-term for this flat then. I mean, even two bathrooms. Looks like you are planning for two girls. ;) Jan 13 16:05:46 wpwrak: it too me a while to understand your message was not about vala language :) Jan 13 16:05:57 mickey|sofa: hmm, so this would be a regression from C then ? pity. i'd consider being able to break a function into pieces without telling anyone else a fairly important feature. Jan 13 16:06:14 mickey|sofa: i.e., keep information about local decisions local too Jan 13 16:06:47 lindi-: in fact it is :) well, some of them are - the plumbing ones aren't ;-) Jan 13 16:07:46 wpwrak: well, perhaps we're talking about different things Jan 13 16:08:13 you can, of course write private functions in a class Jan 13 16:08:19 and call them from public functions Jan 13 16:08:37 stefan_schmidt: there's more: main bathroom with bathtub (to become shower) and toilet, service bathroom with toilet and drench-everything type of shower, guest toilet without shower, and i guess i could put a little pool on the terrace too :) Jan 13 16:08:45 one thing you need to learn though is that there is no distinction between declaration and definition Jan 13 16:08:49 there's no .c/.h in Vala Jan 13 16:09:03 everything goes in .vala files Jan 13 16:09:27 mickey|sofa: oh, i see. that's bothersome in C++. you can have private methods but they still end up in the global declaration. Jan 13 16:09:30 mickey|sofa: how do libraries work then? Jan 13 16:10:13 mickey|sofa: or does it just generate the C headers? Jan 13 16:10:35 for libraries, Vala creates .h files Jan 13 16:10:57 stefan_schmidt: the building is some 30-35 years old. so replacing the plumbing was also a good idea. some of it was lead. i thought they had figured out that this wasn't such a smart choice sometime around the fall of the roman empire :) Jan 13 16:11:26 the same .h files that are supposed to be used when you're using the vala library from C Jan 13 16:11:51 vala has no idea whether a library that you use has been written in Vala or is a native C library Jan 13 16:11:53 it's both the same C Jan 13 16:12:14 the only difference is the .vapi files Jan 13 16:12:25 for Vala libraries, Vala autocreates the .vapi Jan 13 16:12:30 for custom C libs, you need to write it on your own Jan 13 16:12:34 wpwrak: heh, as long as nobody complains... ;) Jan 13 16:12:48 wpwrak: So it is a house and not a flat? Jan 13 16:14:00 stefan_schmidt: it's an apartment. duplex plus two small terraces, 14th floor. Jan 13 16:14:32 wpwrak: nice :) Jan 13 16:15:06 * stefan_schmidt makes a note when visiting .ar .... Jan 13 16:17:37 stefan_schmidt: the terrace will need a bit of extra work. there are tall sidewalls that make one feel a tad imprisoned, particularly when seated: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ndep/all.pdf Jan 13 16:18:00 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re7602fa4007f 10/fsogsmd/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: implement org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.InternalStatusUpdate which gets called from the ppp plugin Jan 13 16:18:48 stefan_schmidt: is the audio routing bits documented on the webos-internals wiki? Jan 13 16:19:06 wpwrak: I see. Some bright colors and some plants could do wonders here Jan 13 16:19:22 mickey|sofa: yep, should be all I know Jan 13 16:19:31 mickey|sofa: Will check later if something is missing there Jan 13 16:19:37 thanks Jan 13 16:20:02 stefan_schmidt: i was more thinking of a raised floor so that one can look over the upper beam :) Jan 13 16:20:04 I'm still not ready to give up all hope on the pre Jan 13 16:20:33 mickey|sofa: Basically you are loading scripts over sysfs into the kernel, they are stored in a list in kernel space and you can execute them with their name writing into another sysfs node Jan 13 16:20:39 mickey|sofa: it seems that, no matter how slowly gta02-core progresses, we can still beat all the anti-vendor efforts :) Jan 13 16:20:56 wpwrak: yes, if you can beat Samsung, you should be all well Jan 13 16:20:58 wpwrak: and fall over it? No kids at your place it seems ;) Jan 13 16:21:05 stefan_schmidt: kernel.el, finally :) Jan 13 16:21:21 wpwrak: yeah, I feeled like it Jan 13 16:21:35 mickey|sofa: samsung ? why them ? Jan 13 16:21:48 Ah and the scripts are of course only reg addresses with hex codes written into them :) Jan 13 16:22:08 Some comments of course. Soem are even more questions to themselfs ;) Jan 13 16:22:20 stefan_schmidt: no kinds and lots of dangerous stuff ;-) but the idea would be to have the deck low enough that the beams act like a normal railing Jan 13 16:23:55 wpwrak: rumours have it they're coming out with something unobfuscated GNU/Linux-based Jan 13 16:24:02 as they have employed some E hackers etc. Jan 13 16:24:14 mickey|sofa: aaah, interesting ! Jan 13 16:26:04 wpwrak: (flat) Ah, looking through the other pictures shows me that it is way higher then I thought from your first picture Jan 13 16:26:17 wpwrak: A raised floor makes indeed sense then Jan 13 16:29:04 mickey|sofa: (Pre audio) This is basically what I know: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Research_Pre_Audio Jan 13 16:29:06 stefan_schmidt: the question is only how to accomplish this without making it too complicated/expensive Jan 13 16:30:13 wpwrak: hmm, some constructions out of wood maybe? Or not good with the ar weather? Jan 13 16:30:24 wpwrak: hmm, you need stairs too. Ugly Jan 13 16:30:41 stefan_schmidt: ok, thanks Jan 13 16:30:49 mickey|sofa: but i guess they still won't release schematics. in fact, i'm already planning for a scenario where there's competition that's "as open as openmoko". so we have to be one step more open. hence open design hardware. lots of new fun things you can do with this, and it'll take the competition a few years to come to terms with that concept. Jan 13 16:31:24 mickey|sofa: I can see if I find some time before 27th to look more into this. No promise though as learning sucks in a lot of time atm Jan 13 16:31:27 stefan_schmidt: wood is alright, but still difficult. stairs shouldn't be too bad. Jan 13 16:31:31 stefan_schmidt: ok, thanks Jan 13 16:31:52 i know now how to do the most basic audio routing on HTC Touch Pro Jan 13 16:32:05 so it's two steps ahead of the Pre now ;) Jan 13 16:32:23 wpwrak: my brother has some teak (not sure I wrote it right) timber for his terrace. Looks great and is very solid. Jan 13 16:32:35 mickey|sofa: heh Jan 13 16:32:48 mickey|sofa: You can't challenge me with such things anymore ;) Jan 13 16:33:17 hmm, bummer. where's your sense of competition gone? :D Jan 13 16:33:29 lots in the river of pointless reverse engineering... Jan 13 16:33:31 mickey|sofa: lost in to many RE projects? :) Jan 13 16:33:31 err Jan 13 16:33:32 lost Jan 13 16:33:34 righto Jan 13 16:33:36 heh, is there some proximity sensor on neo.. suspending usbnet when owner is gone longer than few hours? Jan 13 16:33:56 JaMa: yay, you found the easteregg. ;) Jan 13 16:34:02 everytime I went to work.. few hours later neo stops responding.. Jan 13 16:34:23 * stefan_schmidt needs to tidy up the kitchen. later. Jan 13 16:34:24 but when I arrive home and call just dmesg on host computer it starts responding again.. Jan 13 16:34:50 and what is even more weird.. when I sleep in the same room as neo it never disconnects Jan 13 16:35:09 that's real love ;) Jan 13 16:35:19 sure! but how its done? :) Jan 13 16:35:34 stefan_schmidt: here, cedar seems to be the wood of choice for such things (if you want things to look nice) Jan 13 16:35:40 really this happen about 10 times now.. Jan 13 16:36:13 just arrive home and there is "usb 2-5.3: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 9 "usb0: register 'cdc_ether' at usb-0000:00:13.5-5.3, CDC Ethernet Device, ca:2a:75:c5:6a:ba" Jan 13 16:37:04 and at work I see just "usb 2-5.3: USB disconnect, address 7; usb 2-5: clear tt 3 (0070) error -19; usb0: unregister 'cdc_ether' usb-0000:00:13.5-5.3, CDC Ethernet Device" Jan 13 16:37:29 JaMa: probably the same mechanism that makes card terminals work when i approach them, after they've rejected/timed out several customers before. already happened a number of times :) Jan 13 16:38:39 JaMa: i have seen this behaviour as well Jan 13 16:39:01 * JaMa is thinking about leaving cup of bodily fluids at home, when leaving to work... its better than cuting whole hand.. Jan 13 16:39:09 heh Jan 13 16:39:13 perhaps a contact problem Jan 13 16:39:22 you should attach a scope to the USB terminal Jan 13 16:39:27 yeah... wifey tries something... does not work... I try exactly the same thing... works Jan 13 16:39:31 common scenario :P Jan 13 16:39:42 karma Jan 13 16:40:13 mickey|sofa: but now I'm quite carefull to not touch any part of neo or cable.. just log on computer and call dmesg Jan 13 16:40:13 * mrmoku wishes his karma would not be restricted to electronic components ;) Jan 13 16:40:24 AHH I know it.. hehe Jan 13 16:40:53 interface goes away when you log out? Jan 13 16:40:58 its LCD probably.. after reorganization of my work table I started plugging neo to LCD usb hub.. Jan 13 16:41:09 hehe Jan 13 16:41:20 and the LCD is in standby only when I'm at work for longer time.. Jan 13 16:41:42 so it probably kills hub and I carefully log in ... :) Jan 13 16:42:10 next time I'll log in on my HP700/92 to see that its still off :) Jan 13 17:04:18 is it safe to upgrade SHR unstable? Jan 13 17:04:21 * ThibG asks, now :p Jan 13 17:37:44 How do I install SHR? Jan 13 17:37:48 * mstevens pretends to be a drooling user Jan 13 17:38:27 not that I have to pretend too hard Jan 13 17:41:58 mstevens: err,follow trac.shr-project.org ? Jan 13 17:42:15 or the shr user manual on wiki.openmoko.org ? Jan 13 17:43:16 I was just looking, it seemed to assume I knew how to flash my phone, although I've just found the reference to neotool. Jan 13 17:43:27 And I see things have moved on since I last flashed it and we were at the command line :() Jan 13 18:10:09 is it safe to upgrade SHR now? Jan 13 18:12:31 Gabrys: yes, unless e Jan 13 18:21:27 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r5d0aaa8249c3 10/msmcommd/ (src/talloc_ctx.c tests/frame_test.c): msmcommd: enable memory leak report for frame tests Jan 13 18:21:28 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rb99bef256248 10/msmcommd/src/ (log.c msmcommd.c): msmcommd: add command line option handling Jan 13 18:21:45 johnnymnemonic: unless e? Jan 13 18:25:45 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r1231bc2668ae 10/fsogsmd/src/ (lib/muxppp.vala ppp/plugin.vala): fsogsmd: add debug for ppp address transmission Jan 13 18:28:49 Gabrys: is still broken Jan 13 18:28:56 like this http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=2 Jan 13 18:29:52 johnnymnemonic: I see, but GSM and SMS notifications work eventually? Jan 13 18:30:47 yes Jan 13 18:32:08 I have got it almost working already (updated like 3 days ago), but SMS notifications are not added to the lock screen (although new messages appear in "Messages" when you restart the app and the SMS signal is played on new message). Jan 13 18:37:22 johnnymnemonic: how do I upgrade but e? :> Jan 13 18:45:51 johnnymnemonic, those bugs have been here for a few days, or is it new? Jan 13 18:51:03 Gabrys: you don't have a practical way with opkg Jan 13 18:51:19 just use opkg list_upgradable and upgrade manually Jan 13 18:51:30 ThibG: not new Jan 13 18:51:33 johnnymnemonic: how do I know which ones are broken? Jan 13 18:51:57 ok, so I'll upgrade :) Jan 13 18:53:09 Gabrys: really don't know Jan 13 18:53:35 is just upgrade some; see if it's broken, downgrade if needed Jan 13 18:53:43 johnnymnemonic: if the problem is not really new, I should already be affected with it :) Jan 13 18:53:52 johnnymnemonic: I have upgraded three days ago Jan 13 18:54:07 johnnymnemonic: I use x11-16 engine for E17 Jan 13 18:54:27 and the non-gry theme Jan 13 18:56:08 Gabrys: this is the list of packages I've not upgraded Jan 13 18:56:09 http://pastebin.com/m365380f6 Jan 13 18:56:16