**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 09 02:59:56 2010
Feb 09 03:00:08 <DocScrutinizer> anybody knows off the top of his head?
Feb 09 03:00:50 <DocScrutinizer> (sorry, no FR here atm to test myself)
Feb 09 03:00:55 <misc> tar -xjf ? ( like gnu tar )
Feb 09 03:01:15 <misc> i can bring mine, just wait a few second 
Feb 09 03:01:32 <DocScrutinizer> afaik busybox tar doesn't know how to implicitly unzip
Feb 09 03:03:01 <misc> tar -xzf 
Feb 09 03:03:22 <DocScrutinizer> so I'd guess it's sth like 'unzip <file>|tar -xy
Feb 09 03:03:35 <misc> http://pastebin.mandriva.com/16523 
Feb 09 03:03:46 <DocScrutinizer> misc: verified to work on busybox?
Feb 09 03:03:52 <misc> DocScrutinizer: i can test 
Feb 09 03:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, it lists the -z
Feb 09 03:04:42 <DocScrutinizer> so it should know how to -z ;-P
Feb 09 03:04:55 <misc> verified on shr-u 
Feb 09 03:06:08 <DocScrutinizer> thanks a lot
Feb 09 05:21:27 <satish> i2cdetect 0 displays UU under few colums...what does it mean /
Feb 09 05:21:56 <satish> is it Under Use /
Feb 09 05:35:17 <satish> hi
Feb 09 05:36:44 <satish> lindi- : hi
Feb 09 06:16:12 <DocScrutinizer> satish: I suggest you study the driver sources of wm8753 and pcf50633. Those are the both devices that share the I2C bus you intend to use. And you probably want to duplicate them anyway for your own driver, to some extent, as they use the same I2C driver you'll need to share with them
Feb 09 06:18:42 <satish> DocScrutinizer : Hi
Feb 09 06:19:04 <satish> DocScrutinizer: when i connect Dbug board to freerunner phone, it's not booting
Feb 09 06:19:26 <satish> if i remove the copper connector...phone is booting
Feb 09 06:19:53 <satish> what is the dependency ?
Feb 09 06:20:19 <satish> if i connect the debug board after phone boot...the display is stuck...
Feb 09 06:20:40 <satish> so i believe connect the debug board first and then boot the phone...
Feb 09 06:20:48 <satish> is this sequence correct ?
Feb 09 06:22:29 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer: hey, I see you're back to your old sleeping habits :P
Feb 09 06:22:50 <DocScrutinizer> yo
Feb 09 06:22:53 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Feb 09 06:23:38 <DocScrutinizer> satish: first connect ddebug board. then power up debugboard, then phone
Feb 09 06:24:15 <satish> ok
Feb 09 06:24:30 <satish> yes..i'm doing same...its working some times
Feb 09 06:24:36 <satish> and not booting some times
Feb 09 06:24:44 <satish> don't know exact reason
Feb 09 06:25:14 <DocScrutinizer> wires too long. that's a 400kHz digital bus
Feb 09 06:25:47 <DocScrutinizer> you can't wire it like a lightbulb ;-)
Feb 09 06:25:59 <satish> ok
Feb 09 06:26:03 <satish> i have used i2cdetect utility to know the i2c buses available in the phone
Feb 09 06:26:26 <satish> root@om-gta02 ~ $ i2cdetect -l  i2c-0	i2c       	s3c2410-i2c                     	I2C adapter
Feb 09 06:26:50 <satish> after probing bus 0
Feb 09 06:26:52 <satish> root@om-gta02 ~ $ i2cdetect 0 WARNING! This program can confuse your I2C bus, cause data loss and worse! I will probe file /dev/i2c-0. I will probe address range 0x03-0x77. Continue? [Y/n] Y      0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  a  b  c  d  e  f 00:          -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  10: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- UU -- -- -- -- --  20: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  30: -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Feb 09 06:27:09 <satish> it seems 0x1a and 0x73 has UU
Feb 09 06:27:22 <satish> it means Under Use ?
Feb 09 06:27:30 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
Feb 09 06:27:40 <DocScrutinizer> see my prev comments
Feb 09 06:29:06 <satish> the two driver u mentioned 
Feb 09 06:29:15 <DocScrutinizer> sounds reasonable anyway, as there'S exactly 2 oher chips on that bus
Feb 09 06:29:17 <satish> wm8753 and pcf50633
Feb 09 06:29:22 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Feb 09 06:29:52 <DocScrutinizer> for both you find links to datasheet in wiki as well. Easy to find address for them
Feb 09 06:30:05 <DocScrutinizer> also driver source has address
Feb 09 06:30:45 <satish> ok
Feb 09 06:31:16 <DocScrutinizer> if I had to guess, I'd say 1a is PMU and 73 is mixer
Feb 09 06:31:43 <satish> ok
Feb 09 06:31:44 <satish> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NXP_PCF50633
Feb 09 06:32:37 <satish> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WM8753
Feb 09 06:33:39 <DocScrutinizer> 50633  client address is 0x08.
Feb 09 06:36:15 <satish> even after connecting my device, the i2cdetect has no change and displaying only those two 0x1a and 0x73
Feb 09 06:36:29 <satish> this means my device is not found on i2c bus 0
Feb 09 06:43:08 <DocScrutinizer>  The address of the PCF50633 is 1110011R/W. 
Feb 09 06:44:08 <satish> ok
Feb 09 06:47:35 <satish> DocScrutinizer : To cross compile my application / driver using gcc
Feb 09 06:48:02 <satish> tmp/cross/armv4t/bin/arm-oe-linux-gnueabi-gcc           i2c_test.c
Feb 09 06:48:47 <satish> where arm-oe-linux-gnueabi-gcc  is a cross compiler
Feb 09 06:49:00 <satish> is that ok..
Feb 09 06:49:05 <DocScrutinizer> actually this is 3 different address values. very confusing
Feb 09 06:49:47 <DocScrutinizer> (cross compile) no idea, sorry
Feb 09 06:50:20 <satish> ok
Feb 09 06:50:27 <satish> as per i2c protocol
Feb 09 06:50:34 <satish> it is 0x73 is address
Feb 09 06:50:48 <satish> and lsb bit is read / write command
Feb 09 06:51:05 <DocScrutinizer> yeah makes sense
Feb 09 06:52:02 <DocScrutinizer> i wonder who injected that 0x08 to wiki then
Feb 09 06:53:11 <DocScrutinizer> maybe pcf50606 was 0x08
Feb 09 06:53:20 <DocScrutinizer> on gta01
Feb 09 06:53:21 <satish> ok...
Feb 09 06:53:36 <satish> my phone is om gta02
Feb 09 06:53:39 <DocScrutinizer> nah, me doesn't care right now
Feb 09 06:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> g'night
Feb 09 06:54:27 <satish> DocScrutinizer :is it too late for u ?
Feb 09 06:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Feb 09 06:54:43 <satish> DocScrutinizer : thanks a lot ya...i will continue..
Feb 09 06:55:00 <satish> do u know any one....expertize in cross compile
Feb 09 06:55:11 <DocScrutinizer> mrmoku|away: 
Feb 09 06:55:12 <satish> in our chat window
Feb 09 06:55:27 <satish> ok..i will try to catch him
Feb 09 06:55:58 <satish> once again thanks and g'night
Feb 09 06:57:34 <blindcoder> morning
Feb 09 07:14:45 <satish> ./tmp/staging/om-gta02-oe-linux-gnueabi/kernel/include/
Feb 09 07:14:59 <satish> is this the default include dir for cross compilation
Feb 09 07:23:24 <satish> tmp/cross/armv4t/bin/arm-oe-linux-gnueabi-gcc            -Itmp/staging/om-gta02-oe-linux-gnueabi/kernel/include/                              i2c_test.c
Feb 09 07:23:35 <satish> is this correct way ?
Feb 09 07:27:12 <lindi-> satish: building your own module? aren't you supposed to use kbuild?
Feb 09 08:30:52 <satish> lindi- : hi
Feb 09 08:31:20 <satish> lindi-: trying to build own module and some simple applications
Feb 09 08:35:33 <feitingen> i was wondering, how can i add simple packages to shr? i would like to have xterm and xprop and other small utilities, but would that mean that i have to build it myself?
Feb 09 08:41:36 <blindcoder> feitingen: do they use autotools?
Feb 09 08:41:49 <satish> feitingen : are those scripts ?
Feb 09 08:42:57 <feitingen> the small utilities? they are made with make and make install, i haven't made any config script for them
Feb 09 08:44:02 <satish> blindcoder : tmp/staging/om-gta02-oe-linux-gnueabi/kernel/include is the default include path in openmoko ?
Feb 09 08:44:16 <satish> on freerunner phone ?
Feb 09 08:45:09 <feitingen> satish: tiny ugly-as-sin x apps written in c, parts of it when i was drunk
Feb 09 08:49:35 <blindcoder> satish: not sure if it is
Feb 09 08:49:50 <blindcoder> feitingen: then an include autotools should be all that's needed for the recipe to work
Feb 09 08:54:06 <TAsn-moko> damn opimd
Feb 09 08:56:54 <feitingen> blindcoder: i think i have to read up on bitbake or something first..
Feb 09 08:57:11 <blindcoder> feitingen: try an existing recipe
Feb 09 08:57:39 <blindcoder> feitingen: the openembedded/recipes/fltk/fltkhackdiet_svn.bb might be a good start
Feb 09 08:57:51 <blindcoder> it's very small and uses the configure/make/make install approach
Feb 09 08:59:46 <feitingen> thanks :)
Feb 09 09:01:10 <blindcoder> ARGH
Feb 09 09:01:27 <blindcoder> could PLEASE, SOMEONE fix the /dev/fd -> /proc/self/fd bug?
Feb 09 09:04:01 <JaMa> feitingen: xprop and xterm are already in oe.dev..
Feb 09 09:04:47 <feitingen> JaMa: cool, then i just have to add my own to the mix
Feb 09 09:22:59 <satish> if i have to set the include path for "i2c-dev.h" file, the tmp/staging/om-gta02-oe-linux-gnueabi/kernel/linux/i2c-dev.h is the right one, for om gta 02 ?
Feb 09 09:25:14 <PaulFertser> satish: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/build-linux-kernel-module-against-installed-kernel-source-tree.html
Feb 09 09:26:44 <satish> PaulFertser : This looks like a pc based one
Feb 09 09:27:06 <satish> if i have to install headers for freephone kernel will it be ok ?
Feb 09 09:27:08 <PaulFertser> satish: it doesn't matter, that gives an idea of proper way to build out-of-tree modules.
Feb 09 09:27:25 <PaulFertser> satish: or just build your module in-tree, like everything else.
Feb 09 09:27:38 <satish> ok
Feb 09 09:28:27 <satish> i will go through it.
Feb 09 09:30:16 <mrmoku> raster: ping, do you know if a Samsung M1 is rootable and/or has some sort of uncrippled Linux?
Feb 09 09:32:00 <raster> mrmoku: i actually dont know.
Feb 09 09:32:10 <raster> the m1/h1 are regular linux systems under the hood
Feb 09 09:32:41 <raster> but they are locked down to make vodafone happy
Feb 09 09:32:48 <mrmoku> heh, yeah :/
Feb 09 09:32:49 <raster> i am sure there wil be a hole somewhere
Feb 09 09:32:57 <raster> everything runs as root i think
Feb 09 09:33:17 <raster> in the end in the long run
Feb 09 09:33:26 <raster> expect anything sold via a telco at a subsidy to be locked down
Feb 09 09:33:35 <raster> thats the price for the subsidy
Feb 09 09:33:48 <raster> and if u want a hope for non-locked-down it'd be full-price non-telco phones
Feb 09 09:33:54 <raster> much like the nexus-one
Feb 09 09:34:00 <raster> or android adp1 are/were
Feb 09 09:34:17 <raster> (freerunner is only non-locked, non-subsidied)
Feb 09 09:34:52 <graziano> what about the nokia n900?
Feb 09 09:34:55 <mrmoku> yeah... I'm going to wait to see what is going to happen
Feb 09 09:35:03 <mrmoku> just was wondering nobody is talking about that one
Feb 09 09:35:18 <raster> graziano: also only an unlocked phone
Feb 09 09:35:18 <graziano> it should have root access by default if I don't go wrongf
Feb 09 09:35:20 <raster> u pay full price
Feb 09 09:35:48 <max_posedon> full prices usually less expensive in long term
Feb 09 09:35:49 <raster> as long as its a non-telco phone, the phone maker has the ability to make its own choices as to how it should be
Feb 09 09:35:52 <blindcoder> mrmoku: probably because it sucks ;P my gf has one and the touchscreen is so bad I wanted to introduce it to gravity
Feb 09 09:35:55 <raster> if its a telco subsidised one
Feb 09 09:35:59 <graziano> only phones with root access I know of are: freerunner, nokia n900
Feb 09 09:36:01 <raster> the people to bithc @ are the telco
Feb 09 09:36:09 <raster> as they want it locked down invariably
Feb 09 09:36:12 <graziano> I mean root access obtained in a legal way
Feb 09 09:36:18 <raster> asn the phone maker will do that because thats what gets them sales
Feb 09 09:36:19 <graziano> oh there is also the google ADP 
Feb 09 09:36:40 <graziano> but it costs more
Feb 09 09:36:47 <raster> yeah
Feb 09 09:36:53 <raster> well nexus-one isnt much more than n900
Feb 09 09:36:57 <mrmoku> blindcoder: good to know ;)
Feb 09 09:37:00 <raster> tho it is a significantly better bit of hw
Feb 09 09:37:01 <blindcoder> mrmoku: only fingers, no stylus use possible, and the calibration is off by about 1.5 cm
Feb 09 09:37:39 <blindcoder> so in winter, when someone calls you, you need to remove whatever keeps your fingers warm
Feb 09 09:38:03 <Moz_> Hi All. I'm looking for a freelance openmoko developer who might be able to help with a few projects I want to build. A key part is to have functionality where the SIM for the handset is held remotely in a SIM bank and the handset calls over an internet connection back to the SIM bank to pull details of the SIM to be used. i.e. the physical SIM is not held in the handset. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Feb 09 09:38:44 <raster> blindcoder: m1 is off by 1.5cm for screen?
Feb 09 09:39:03 <blindcoder> raster: at least the one my gf has
Feb 09 09:39:20 <raster> blindcoder:  odd. i've seen many an m1/h1 - screen is fine
Feb 09 09:39:22 <blindcoder> raster: when I touch the 'd' on the keyboard, I get an 'a'
Feb 09 09:39:27 <raster> but yes - its capacitive
Feb 09 09:39:36 <raster> resistive comes with many more troubles though
Feb 09 09:39:45 <raster> that seems totally odd
Feb 09 09:39:57 <raster> i havent seen that happen
Feb 09 09:40:11 <blindcoder> also, what I think sucks most, you cannot remove preinstalled applications
Feb 09 09:40:15 <raster> tho i spend my time on something with a more recent mult-touch screen
Feb 09 09:40:20 <raster> yeah
Feb 09 09:40:28 <raster> the 360 is something pretty muc made FOR vodafone
Feb 09 09:40:39 <raster> so you need to address vodafone there
Feb 09 09:40:41 <raster> thats what they wanted
Feb 09 09:40:52 <blindcoder> yeah, but they send you to samsung and you get a buchbinder wanninger very fast
Feb 09 09:41:10 <feitingen> Moz_: i think that would require poking into the firmware of the modem of the phone, i dont think you get direct access to the sim card otherwise (of course, i might be wrong)
Feb 09 09:41:33 <raster> blindcoder: in the end there is the unfortunate reality that - to make a phone u need high volume sales to justify the production line
Feb 09 09:41:44 <raster> as such the only thign that provides that volume of sales is telcos
Feb 09 09:42:07 <blindcoder> raster: yeah, I understand that, that's why I'm looking into non-subsidized phones at the moment
Feb 09 09:42:12 <raster> so in the end u need to appease them as thats the only thnig thats going to make that wiz-bang phone be abe to cost $500 or $600
Feb 09 09:42:22 <blindcoder> my contract with t-mobile ends in april. any suggestions? :)
Feb 09 09:42:32 <raster> it u do it openmoko-style wiht small volumes sellign full price only the same device becomes $1000 or $1500
Feb 09 09:42:47 <raster> and then yoru sales drop even morea speople say "but an iphone is so much cheaper - you suck!"
Feb 09 09:43:03 <raster> you cant win and please everyone easily
Feb 09 09:43:08 <raster> the best way is to sneak in
Feb 09 09:43:16 <raster> make somethgni that canbe closed off AND be open
Feb 09 09:43:22 <raster> telco gets tyhe closed-off ones
Feb 09 09:43:32 <blindcoder> but what's keeping them from making two different firmwares?
Feb 09 09:43:38 <raster> they can install 3rd party "approveD" apps via an approved "app store" mechaism
Feb 09 09:43:54 <raster> ands then u have full-rpice non-telco models that are sold the way all the unlocked ones are
Feb 09 09:43:58 <blindcoder> one (95%+) for the telcos, and one (5%) for people caring about fiddling with their devices?
Feb 09 09:44:04 <raster> and that one will allow "root" etc.
Feb 09 09:44:29 <raster> blindcoder: nothing. it's just that in the past your enigneering team is isntantly working on the next phone for a telco
Feb 09 09:44:36 <raster> and not carign about making an unlocked firmware
Feb 09 09:44:46 <raster> as there is no 3rd party apps/developer gorup to cater for
Feb 09 09:44:59 <raster> as such the 3rd party apps and develoeprs is a new phenomenon
Feb 09 09:45:13 <raster> ie for seriously catering to them
Feb 09 09:45:19 <raster> and that does change the model a lot
Feb 09 09:45:35 <blindcoder> raster: palm did it years ago, so maybe it's not 'new' but rather 'grown to be taken serious'
Feb 09 09:46:09 <raster> blindcoder: yeah.. well more that palm was seen as a pda with phone abilities
Feb 09 09:46:12 <raster> and thus that was another matter
Feb 09 09:46:22 <raster> on a technical level - no difference
Feb 09 09:46:36 <raster> more the point of view you come from
Feb 09 09:46:52 <blindcoder> yeah, I'm not wearing enough ties to know much about business points of view
Feb 09 09:47:02 <raster> hehehe
Feb 09 09:47:09 <blindcoder> never learned to tie one, actually ;)
Feb 09 09:47:26 <raster> but trust me - supporting devleoeprs and giving them what they need/want to write software for the devices is important
Feb 09 09:47:33 <raster> its literally discussed daily
Feb 09 09:47:37 <raster> and pushed for
Feb 09 09:47:53 <raster> there is the problem of telco customers and an ingrained culture of "we have always done it this way"
Feb 09 09:48:13 <raster> if you hired a bunch of oss coders and said "make a phone" you'd get that without question
Feb 09 09:48:37 <raster> but rememebr u actually have 100's of engineers who hve made dozens of phones over the years with a dozen os's for dozens of telcos
Feb 09 09:48:47 <raster> and u are now trying to make them all "get" open source
Feb 09 09:48:55 <raster> it is slow and takes time
Feb 09 09:48:57 <blindcoder> yeah, that's difficult
Feb 09 09:49:08 <raster> there are a few who do get it
Feb 09 09:49:18 <raster> it's a battle to make sure things happen
Feb 09 09:49:21 <raster> u cant win everything
Feb 09 09:49:24 <blindcoder> it was difficult enough teaching my parents and gf that OpenOffice is free and does not charge any money
Feb 09 09:49:40 <raster> but ther eare those - like me, who have a totally disproportionate amount of influence
Feb 09 09:49:51 <raster> it seems that when i say jump.. i am asked.. how high.
Feb 09 09:50:02 <blindcoder> hehehe
Feb 09 09:50:04 <raster> i just need to direct the jump call nicely
Feb 09 09:50:13 <raster> (ie right place, right time for the right thing)
Feb 09 09:50:13 * blindcoder .oO( jne )
Feb 09 09:50:19 <raster> i dont have time to yell jump all day :)
Feb 09 09:50:26 <blindcoder> of course
Feb 09 09:50:34 <raster> but... give this all a few years
Feb 09 09:50:43 <raster> persistent presure from 3rd party develoeprs wanting more access
Feb 09 09:50:48 <raster> wanting everything open
Feb 09 09:50:52 <raster> and it will happen
Feb 09 09:50:53 <JaMa> Wonka: ping
Feb 09 09:51:02 <SOLEIL> http://konkurranse.ps.no/vote/208
Feb 09 09:51:28 <raster> there are things u wont ever see open
Feb 09 09:51:34 <blindcoder> raster: great :) I will wait for that and hone my coding skills
Feb 09 09:51:36 <raster> 1. modem firmware itself. snowballs chance.
Feb 09 09:51:39 <lindi-> raster: never say never :)
Feb 09 09:51:54 <Wonka> JaMa: pong
Feb 09 09:51:57 <raster> the best u can hope for is the abiity to downlaod firmware updates and then your kenrle uploads firmware on boot to modem
Feb 09 09:52:04 <raster> firmwares will be digitally signed and encrypted
Feb 09 09:52:09 <raster> thats as good as u'll get
Feb 09 09:52:24 <raster> the protocol to deal with them - at the best, will be open - or at least have souce to deal with it
Feb 09 09:52:28 <max_posedon> 2. I think 3G or CDMA firmware's can be open
Feb 09 09:52:42 <blindcoder> what I - personally - care for is a device that i can code apps for and has decent performance. FR/SHR has solved 50% of that :)
Feb 09 09:52:42 <lindi-> max_posedon: maybe not now but maybe in 2020?
Feb 09 09:52:45 <raster> max_posedon: its not going to happen tho.
Feb 09 09:53:04 <max_posedon> their security not reliated on closed as on gsm...
Feb 09 09:53:18 <max_posedon> lindi-, cdma available here, with evdo and so on
Feb 09 09:53:24 <raster> max_posedon: u still have gsm stacks there too. and the netowkr itself is fragile
Feb 09 09:53:30 <raster> if u dont behave - uc an still take cells down
Feb 09 09:53:35 <raster> telcos just wont allwo it
Feb 09 09:53:49 <raster> and no phone maekr wants the reputation for their devices being the ones used to bring down telco networks
Feb 09 09:53:54 <raster> that will kill business.
Feb 09 09:54:28 <max_posedon> I heard about all this gsm problems, but don't heard about similar cdma's issues freankly speaking
Feb 09 09:54:30 <lindi-> raster: maybe you could have a relatively small core that is digitally signed and still has source available
Feb 09 09:54:30 <raster> 2. 34rd party devices such as gpus - the drivers thewre ar etotally not under the control of the manufacuters or telcos
Feb 09 09:54:32 <blindcoder> from what I've seen, network and datacenter planning is the worst SPoF in most telco networks ;P
Feb 09 09:54:37 <raster> your fight is with migtec or arm
Feb 09 09:54:40 <Wonka> hehe, no, that's a bonus for some customers, and others just don't care
Feb 09 09:54:41 <raster> err imgtec
Feb 09 09:55:05 <raster> lindi-: there is little point really. the firmware is a blob - u talk to it via a protocol
Feb 09 09:55:08 <Wonka> (ability to bring down cells)
Feb 09 09:55:10 <raster> it may as well be in silicon
Feb 09 09:55:20 <raster> think of it aas runtime upgradable/fixable silicon
Feb 09 09:55:27 <raster> as long as the modem runs in its own memory space
Feb 09 09:55:29 <raster> on tis own cpu
Feb 09 09:55:33 <raster> then its isolated
Feb 09 09:55:34 <blindcoder> redundant clusters with backup are usually situated like this: [Node 1][Backup][Node 2]
Feb 09 09:55:36 <raster> and it doesnt matter
Feb 09 09:55:41 <blindcoder> Fire --> 100% outage and data loss
Feb 09 09:56:01 <raster> it cant crash/bring down/cpompromise your host os and apps
Feb 09 09:56:01 <max_posedon> here we haven't telco cheap phones, and most people use unknown phones from china, and nobody even think who produced such phone
Feb 09 09:56:09 <Wonka> blindcoder: at least google has geographically separated backups ;)
Feb 09 09:56:13 <max_posedon> we name them "china nokia"
Feb 09 09:56:22 <lindi-> raster: you can fix bugs?
Feb 09 09:56:23 <blindcoder> Wonka: google is now a telco?
Feb 09 09:56:34 <lindi-> raster: you can study how the system works to understand
Feb 09 09:56:35 <Wonka> blindcoder: not yet ;)
Feb 09 09:56:51 <raster> lindi-: in order to fix those bugs u need access to soruce that will allow you too much power - the kind that canbe used to jam networks.
Feb 09 09:56:54 <raster> as above
Feb 09 09:56:55 <blindcoder> Wonka: well, still, that's nice for them, but bad for the 99% of the rest of the world :P
Feb 09 09:57:13 <raster> no phone maker wants that reputation as that will detroy their business as telcos wont touch them
Feb 09 09:57:26 <raster> i dont see it happening ever
Feb 09 09:57:27 <JaMa> Wonka: have you checked which python-e* libs are needed in zhone? please?
Feb 09 09:57:37 <raster> even the open guys agree on putting it into a firmware blob
Feb 09 09:57:49 <Wonka> JaMa: no, because I have no idea how to do so
Feb 09 09:57:55 <raster> as its the only practical solution that will, in the end, keep your sales, and allow for an open os
Feb 09 09:58:49 <JaMa> Wonka: ah ok, from my not-python-programer POV I would just grep for imports
Feb 09 09:59:12 <lindi-> raster: how can source be caused to jam networks?
Feb 09 09:59:42 <lindi-> raster: but i'm not an "open guy" :)
Feb 09 10:00:27 <raster> lindi-: you have lower level access then to create your own packets and send as you please
Feb 09 10:00:44 <raster> last i checked cells relied on co-operative functionality to stay alive
Feb 09 10:01:00 <raster> and the ability to make your own packets and lets say just loop and blast them out can kill a cell
Feb 09 10:01:33 <raster> the api given to you outside firmware currently - tho those apis are not open generally (the at commandset style api is pretty much open tho)
Feb 09 10:01:49 <PaulFertser> raster: but there's always SDR for those who want it.
Feb 09 10:01:52 <raster> hides this ability and gives you higher level control and that can stop this from happening
Feb 09 10:02:05 <raster> PaulFertser: correct. sdr for that.
Feb 09 10:02:15 <raster> your 2g/3g/4g etc. baserband is not for that
Feb 09 10:02:29 <raster> and the telcose want to keep their netowrks working
Feb 09 10:02:40 <raster> even if it is possible to build sdr's to do thius
Feb 09 10:03:14 <raster> no manufacutrer wants to have their name attached to the phone you buy to hack and bring down cell networks trivially with some patched firmware that was easily created from the open source for it
Feb 09 10:03:25 <raster> as such if the api is put high up that can be controlled
Feb 09 10:03:41 <raster> as it doesnt run in kernel or user sapce but on a separate cpu and in separate ram etc. - this is fine
Feb 09 10:03:49 <raster> as it doesnt affewct stability/security
Feb 09 10:03:55 <raster> (of your kernel/user apps)
Feb 09 10:04:12 <raster> you can considert it to be silicon - it may as well be.
Feb 09 10:04:14 <raster> consider
Feb 09 10:04:17 <raster> (the modem firmware)
Feb 09 10:04:35 <raster> as long as its isolated beyond an api that is open as above
Feb 09 10:04:37 <lindi-> raster: but hiding source only slows you down?
Feb 09 10:04:54 <raster> lindi-: how so?
Feb 09 10:04:58 <lindi-> raster: digital signatures could still prevent you from running modified versions
Feb 09 10:05:08 <PaulFertser> raster: what about those guys who break simlock? It is possible to patch baseband firmware on many devices it seems. 
Feb 09 10:05:16 <lindi-> raster: well you can always analyze the binaries
Feb 09 10:05:42 <raster> they dont need to make it open. they dont want to make it open. they dont have to make it open. there is no benefit they care about
Feb 09 10:05:56 <raster> frankly you auditing the source and sending them reports - they just dont care
Feb 09 10:05:59 <raster> that is of no value to them
Feb 09 10:06:07 <raster> what *IS* of value is 3rd party apps
Feb 09 10:06:37 <raster> trying to sell making the foirmware open, but digitally signed etc. so u cant ue modified fw, is like selling ice to eskimos
Feb 09 10:06:40 <raster> they just dont care
Feb 09 10:06:44 <raster> there is no value proposition
Feb 09 10:07:07 <lindi-> raster: well i do care and could buy such a device :)
Feb 09 10:07:25 <lindi-> raster: i don't need to ask the telcos as long as the device passes certification, right?
Feb 09 10:08:03 <JaMa> Wonka: seems like python-edbus python-edje python-ecore would be enough..
Feb 09 10:08:48 <raster> PaulFertser: thats why you digitally sign it. then its now nigh impossible unless u break the signature encryption. thats a lot harder than reverse-engineering firmware that is pretty much just arm instructions ina binary
Feb 09 10:09:24 <raster> lindi-:  if every open source/linux person that cared vetoed buying a phone because they dont have src to he modem.. manufacturers would not even notice. you are a rounding-error to them.
Feb 09 10:09:27 <raster> they dont care.
Feb 09 10:09:32 <PaulFertser> raster: why do vendors still allow to guys to do "sim unlocking"?
Feb 09 10:09:35 <raster> you dont matter.
Feb 09 10:09:45 <raster> you need to appeal to what they care about
Feb 09 10:09:52 <raster> they care about selling more phones
Feb 09 10:10:12 <raster> having the ability to add apps and make a phone more functional as a result sells many more units
Feb 09 10:10:24 <raster> as the apsp go to the ":unwashed masses" who are not open source nerds
Feb 09 10:10:25 <vegyraupe> mrmoku: http://h1.pargon.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Feb 09 10:10:39 <raster> they also dont much care except want a phone that does stuff - and does more things that are useful to them
Feb 09 10:11:09 <raster> the necessity of such an ecosystem is to either create all the apps in-house (insane - not possible on lareg scales) or.. you open up to 3rd party develoeprs and suck them in
Feb 09 10:11:24 <raster> PaulFertser: because they have very poor concepts of security
Feb 09 10:11:36 <raster> PaulFertser: to them rtemoving a header files == security.
Feb 09 10:11:45 <raster> now u dont have the api header.. uc ant use the library etc.
Feb 09 10:11:52 <raster> thats a real belief
Feb 09 10:11:58 <raster> i kid you not
Feb 09 10:12:14 <raster> thnk of it this way
Feb 09 10:12:19 <raster> open source programmers ar egenerally good
Feb 09 10:12:33 <raster> why? in the oss world u need to rely on literally being good to keep your head above water
Feb 09 10:12:41 <raster> if you are merely average or bad - you sink
Feb 09 10:13:03 <raster> in the end the law of the jungle in oss land means that oss devs tend to be like the top 1% of engineers
Feb 09 10:13:11 <raster> so they understand thgins like security
Feb 09 10:13:17 <raster> they know removing a ehader wont do anything
Feb 09 10:13:40 <lindi-> raster: hmm, hasn't openbts project already developed free gsm base station software? how hard would it be to get software for the handset?
Feb 09 10:13:40 <raster> they also know that putting security sensitive stuff in a shared lib as oppoed to in aservice running as root vs ui runing as user, is much more secure
Feb 09 10:13:41 <raster> etc.
Feb 09 10:13:54 <raster> they know about making code ope and being able to use digital signatures etc.
Feb 09 10:14:16 <raster> but.. those people are not 100% of the engineers u see working in real life at the places that make thigns like phones
Feb 09 10:14:35 <raster> they are maybe 5% of them.
Feb 09 10:15:01 <raster> so... you see modem firmwares being hackable because of an incorrect belief that they secured it already - the wrong way.
Feb 09 10:15:08 <raster> sometimes security is actively poor
Feb 09 10:15:17 <raster> ie "telco demands securing of X"
Feb 09 10:15:25 <raster> so u do just enough to make them happy and meet their checklist
Feb 09 10:15:31 <raster> the checlist is often very poor
Feb 09 10:15:53 <raster> and so "benign neglect" means iuts hackable
Feb 09 10:15:59 <raster> they maker's enginerrs wanted that
Feb 09 10:16:09 <raster> they can always say "we did what you asked us to do" to the telco
Feb 09 10:16:15 <raster> if the maker actively releaes source
Feb 09 10:16:17 <raster> thats another matter
Feb 09 10:16:24 <raster> the maker is actively making it easy to hack
Feb 09 10:16:33 <raster> thats a totally different story
Feb 09 10:16:51 <raster> lindi-: base stattion is another matter
Feb 09 10:17:15 <raster> a base station isnt sold cheaply and in everyones pocket running 100's or 1000's of 3rd party apps downloaded from unknown sources on the internet
Feb 09 10:17:21 <lindi-> raster: is a telco allowed to block a phone model from its network in usa?
Feb 09 10:17:32 <raster> its a REAL fear to have people with phones that have a trojane or virus downloaded and running rampant
Feb 09 10:17:47 <raster> lindi-: i cant sayfor the usa
Feb 09 10:18:00 <raster> but it is possible to blokc phone models and invididual phones
Feb 09 10:18:05 <lindi-> raster: yes but is it legal?
Feb 09 10:18:08 <raster> u can even ONLY allows specirfic phones
Feb 09 10:18:10 <raster> ie specific devices
Feb 09 10:18:18 <raster> of course this is imei based
Feb 09 10:18:26 <raster> so if u can hack your imei.. u can get around it
Feb 09 10:18:33 <raster> as for legal - i cant say in the usa
Feb 09 10:18:47 <raster> but in korea - the way it works there is - if its not a telco phone - it will not work
Feb 09 10:18:49 <raster> simple as tht
Feb 09 10:18:50 <lindi-> raster: I'm in finland and would assume that an operator could not do this
Feb 09 10:18:58 <raster> you have to actually get your phone approved
Feb 09 10:19:05 <raster> it costs like $700 to have it tested to be allowed on your network
Feb 09 10:19:10 <raster> err on theyir network
Feb 09 10:19:19 <raster> it is illegal to circumvent this
Feb 09 10:19:32 <lindi-> raster: maybe korea is indeed different
Feb 09 10:19:45 <raster> so you either buy the locked-down telco phone, or you done have a phone, or pay $700 and hope your phne passes such a test
Feb 09 10:19:57 <raster> circumventing this will land you in jail
Feb 09 10:20:02 <raster> as its actually a crime
Feb 09 10:20:26 <raster> i cant say about the states as to if locking phones out is anti-competetive etc. and can be fought in a court
Feb 09 10:20:27 <raster> and so on
Feb 09 10:20:50 <raster> i know acorss europe there is legislation explicitly forcing telcos to have open networks etc.
Feb 09 10:20:55 <lindi-> yep
Feb 09 10:20:57 <raster> (ie allow any phone on it etc.)
Feb 09 10:21:00 <raster> so it all depends
Feb 09 10:21:42 <lindi-> so there is nothing to prevent an openbts-like project from developing free gsm software and then paying to get some revision of it certified
Feb 09 10:21:56 <raster> lindi-:  not that i know of
Feb 09 10:22:16 <raster> and your gms stack thing woudl als need to be written FOR the specific baseband hw
Feb 09 10:22:23 <raster> and that is totally also not open
Feb 09 10:22:26 <raster> so even if u have a stack
Feb 09 10:22:38 <raster> u cant send/recieve anything without more help from the maker of that baseband
Feb 09 10:22:38 <raster> etc.
Feb 09 10:22:40 <lindi-> probably there's a long way to working phones but at least you could have some larger devices
Feb 09 10:23:07 <raster> maybe with your own sdr's
Feb 09 10:23:22 <raster> but if its big - its not able to fit in my pocket
Feb 09 10:23:25 <lindi-> yep
Feb 09 10:23:26 <raster> and so.. i know i lost interest then
Feb 09 10:23:46 <raster> its the magic "it fits in the vast majority of peoples pockets" form factor that suddenly makes the device magical
Feb 09 10:23:52 <lindi-> we used to have only car phones in the past :)
Feb 09 10:24:08 <raster> htis is why the ipads of this world imho will not sell anywhere near the voluems of smartphones
Feb 09 10:24:22 <raster> lindi-:  yes. and.. look at the volumes of them sold then :)
Feb 09 10:24:48 <raster> anyway
Feb 09 10:24:56 <raster> righyt now the battle to fight is not modem firmware
Feb 09 10:25:00 <raster> dont try
Feb 09 10:25:05 <raster> its like re-living ww2
Feb 09 10:25:09 <raster> donmt fight on too many fronts
Feb 09 10:25:11 <raster> u'll lose
Feb 09 10:25:13 <raster> every time.
Feb 09 10:25:21 <raster> fight the core big battle
Feb 09 10:25:27 <raster> thats for kernel + userspace
Feb 09 10:25:32 <raster> theres enouhg to fight over there
Feb 09 10:25:40 <raster> and ther u have big guns to fight with
Feb 09 10:25:57 <raster> as above - 3rd party develoeprs providing apps for an ecosystem has value to telcos and makers
Feb 09 10:26:06 <raster> open firmware for modem doesnt
Feb 09 10:26:32 <raster> use the weapons you have and fight there. there's damned well enough to deal with.
Feb 09 10:26:36 <lindi-> i think i'll stil continue following what openbts people do :)
Feb 09 10:26:51 <raster> brb
Feb 09 10:27:19 <JaMa> Wonka: can you please test/commit? http://jama.homelinux.org/org.openembedded.shr.images/0001-setup.py-use-pkgconfig-call-for-checking-eina-0-incl.patch
Feb 09 10:30:16 <JaMa> TAsn: mrmoku: phonefsod fails to build atm http://tinderbox.openembedded.net/packages/phonefsod/
Feb 09 10:34:32 <lindi-> just imagine carrying a software radio in your backpack together with a car battery to have enough power to run it :)
Feb 09 10:34:38 <Wonka> JaMa: will look into it
Feb 09 10:37:18 <JaMa> Wonka: it compiles fine after this patch here (and failed before with newer EFL)
Feb 09 10:38:14 <JaMa> Wonka: please ping me after commit, I'll bump git revision in same commit as removin unneeded python-e deps
Feb 09 11:31:00 <satish> I don't have /dev/spi0 .... should i need to create using mknod to access spi device ?
Feb 09 11:38:12 <satish> i have created  /dev/spi0 but failed to get read / write to spi device ...
Feb 09 11:38:45 <satish> i have used the below link
Feb 09 11:38:47 <satish> http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/spi/spidev_test.c
Feb 09 11:57:32 <Mirv> continuing on the topic of literki in Debian - if anyone wants to separate the png++ library away and start maintaining it, feel free. before that literki can't go into Debian main.
Feb 09 11:58:12 <Mirv> I'm not certain that I will continue on it for a while now that it's in pkg-fso
Feb 09 12:16:46 <Wonka> seems I'm missing something... since some weeks, it seems there's not a single package rebuilt in my shr-unstable tree
Feb 09 12:18:18 <JaMa> Wonka: do you have shr/unstable branch?
Feb 09 12:18:25 <JaMa> Wonka: I guess old shr/merge..
Feb 09 12:19:27 <Wonka> where would I see that?
Feb 09 12:20:15 <JaMa> Wonka: you use shr Makefile?
Feb 09 12:20:26 <Wonka> yes
Feb 09 12:20:27 <JaMa> cd shr-unstable/openembedded; git branch
Feb 09 12:21:03 <JaMa> but IIRC make update should change that branch for you automatically
Feb 09 12:23:08 <Wonka> I do: cd .../build/; make update (that one regularly updates some stuff)
Feb 09 12:24:47 <JaMa> and that branch?
Feb 09 12:27:08 <Wonka> then: cd shr-unstable; . ./setup-env; bb -k task-shr-feed package-index
Feb 09 12:27:22 <Wonka> $ git branch
Feb 09 12:27:22 <Wonka>   org.openembedded.dev
Feb 09 12:27:22 <Wonka>   shr/merge
Feb 09 12:27:22 <Wonka> * shr/unstable
Feb 09 12:27:36 <Wonka> (in shr-unstable/openembedded)
Feb 09 12:29:55 <Wonka> btw, isn't that build system a little perverted? make calling bitbake several times...
Feb 09 12:34:18 <JaMa> hmm that's ok.. and bb -k task-shr-feed package-index doesn't build upgrades for you? strange.. there are new upgrades almost every day
Feb 09 12:35:16 <JaMa> ie today i pushed upgrade for fltkspacetrader and babiloo, you should see them built..
Feb 09 12:35:31 <Wonka> JaMa: at least "opkg update ; opkg upgrade" downloads index files from there but never upgraded packages
Feb 09 12:35:44 <Wonka> i've seen stuff being done with babiloo
Feb 09 12:36:25 <JaMa> Wonka: try bb -c rebuild package-index
Feb 09 12:39:52 <Wonka> /home/w/OM/SHR/build/shr-unstable/tmp/work/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/gcc-cross-initial-4.4.2-r2.1/temp/log.do_compile.9065 ends with:
Feb 09 12:40:16 <Wonka> checking for suffix of object files... configure: error: in `/home/w/OM/SHR/build/shr-unstable/tmp/work/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/gcc-cross-initial-4.4.2-r2.1/gcc-4.4.2/build.x86_64-linux.arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/libgcc':
Feb 09 12:40:20 <Wonka> configure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile
Feb 09 12:42:30 <Wonka> seems the complete toolchain is fucked up
Feb 09 12:42:38 <Wonka> /home/w/OM/SHR/build/shr-unstable/tmp/work/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/gcc-cross-initial-4.4.2-r2.1/gcc-4.4.2/build.x86_64-linux.arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/./gcc/as: line 76: exec: : not fo
Feb 09 12:42:42 <Wonka> und
Feb 09 12:43:25 <Wonka> what do I need to do to cause a rebuild of the toolchain?
Feb 09 12:46:56 <blindcoder> Wonka: rm -rf tmp
Feb 09 12:46:59 <blindcoder> :)
Feb 09 12:47:24 <graziano> http://www.telecomskorea.com/market-8281.html
Feb 09 12:47:25 <Wonka> build/shr-unstable$ ls -la tmp/deploy/ipk/all/babiloo-efl_*
Feb 09 12:47:25 <Wonka> -rw-r--r-- 1 w w 526680 13. Dez 22:17 tmp/deploy/ipk/all/babiloo-efl_2.0.9-4-r1.4_all.ipk
Feb 09 12:47:29 <graziano> samsung to discard windows phones
Feb 09 12:47:32 <Wonka> blindcoder: that's a _bit_ much
Feb 09 12:48:24 <Wonka> blindcoder: I'd like to keep at least tmp/cache 
Feb 09 12:48:40 <JaMa> Wonka: you can try gcc-4.4.3.. I'm building it right now.. and if that works ok.. I would upgrade it in shr/unstable
Feb 09 12:48:59 <Wonka> blindcoder: also, why remove tmp/deploy?
Feb 09 12:49:47 <blindcoder> Wonka: from my experience with rock linux back then, rebuilding the toolchain and NOT rebuilding binary packages regularly screws up something
Feb 09 12:50:03 <Wonka> blindcoder: mhkay...
Feb 09 12:50:23 <blindcoder> but then, I only rebuilt the toolchain when there were updates in it, so
Feb 09 12:50:26 <blindcoder> YMMV
Feb 09 12:50:27 <Wonka> blindcoder: but keeping the cache is still senseful, so package version numbers will be consistent?
Feb 09 12:51:17 <blindcoder> Wonka: i don't know about OE's cache, sorry
Feb 09 12:51:40 <JaMa> Wonka: yes.. you want to keep cache because of SRCPV..
Feb 09 12:51:46 <JaMa> Wonka: otherwise you had to reflash
Feb 09 12:52:10 <Wonka> JaMa: but I can remove everything other?
Feb 09 12:52:20 <JaMa> Wonka: yes you can
Feb 09 12:52:46 <JaMa> I'm doing it too right now :)
Feb 09 12:53:03 <Wonka> ok... doing so too
Feb 09 12:53:08 <JaMa> Wonka: but if you want to safe 2 hours in next few days.. bump that gcc in sane-toolchain.inc too
Feb 09 12:53:26 <JaMa> Wonka: otherwise you would build newer gcc after my next commit
Feb 09 12:54:23 <Wonka> PREFERRED_GCC_VERSION                ?= "4.4.3"
Feb 09 12:54:26 <Wonka> anything else?
Feb 09 12:55:21 <JaMa> that should be enough
Feb 09 12:56:18 <Wonka> ok
Feb 09 12:57:06 <JaMa> Wonka: and you have to commit that change, otherwise next make update will reset it ..
Feb 09 13:05:48 <Wonka> JaMa: I committed that change to shr-unstable/openembedded/conf/distro/include/sane-toolchain.inc
Feb 09 13:05:58 <Wonka> JaMa: and after a "make update", it was gone again.
Feb 09 13:06:24 <Wonka> update-shr-unstable does:
Feb 09 13:06:26 <Wonka>         ( cd shr-unstable/openembedded ; \
Feb 09 13:06:27 <Wonka>           git clean -d -f ; git reset --hard ; git fetch ; \
Feb 09 13:06:27 <Wonka>           git checkout ${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE} 2>/dev/null || \
Feb 09 13:06:29 <Wonka>           git checkout --no-track -b ${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE} origin/${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE} ; \
Feb 09 13:06:32 <Wonka>           git reset --hard origin/${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE} )
Feb 09 13:06:38 <Wonka> seems that would undo anything not from upstream?
Feb 09 13:06:53 <JaMa> ah :/ I'm not using makefile.. sorry
Feb 09 13:07:51 <JaMa> well I'm using it on shr buildhost, but when I'm building there I have everything already tested locally and commited upstream
Feb 09 13:07:55 <Wonka> .oO( I'd like some documentation on stuff like that in maybe SHR wiki? )
Feb 09 13:08:28 <Wonka> .oO( like how to keep local changes I want to keep... )
Feb 09 13:10:12 <Wonka> also, I need some course on git. I have no idea what that 'git checkout --no-track -b ${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE} origin/${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE}' part is supposed to do
Feb 09 13:11:52 <JaMa> that checkouts branch origin/shr/unstable to local branch shr/unstable
Feb 09 13:13:03 <Wonka> but only if 'git checkout ${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE}' returned non-zero...
Feb 09 13:13:26 <Wonka> git is mighty and powerful... but hard to understand
Feb 09 13:15:44 <JaMa> Wonka: because the first part works when branch already exists and the 2nd part is for checkouting new local branch if ${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE} doesn't exist (ie first run)
Feb 09 13:16:33 <Wonka> and "git reset --hard origin/${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE}" resets what branch to what branch?
Feb 09 13:17:18 <JaMa> because you're already in shr-unstable/openembedded directory where is local branch ${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE} then it resets to upstream state of origin/${SHR_UNSTABLE_BRANCH_OE}
Feb 09 13:18:31 <vanous123> OK2OTA
Feb 09 13:18:37 <vanous123> error, sorry
Feb 09 13:18:44 <JaMa> vanous123: passwd? :)
Feb 09 13:18:49 <vanous123> no
Feb 09 13:18:55 <vanous123> looking up callsign
Feb 09 13:18:58 <Wonka> not very good one, if
Feb 09 13:19:09 <vanous123> for my son Otakar
Feb 09 13:19:52 <Wonka> another project on my todo list: get ham radio liz
Feb 09 13:21:53 <vanous123> Wonka: me been pulled int othe aprs world, have a tracker for neo now :)
Feb 09 13:24:25 <mrmoku> JaMa: (phonefsod) looking at it now
Feb 09 13:24:33 <JaMa> mrmoku: thanks
Feb 09 13:27:20 <mrmoku> TAsn: noob ;)
Feb 09 13:27:24 <CIA-47> SHR: 03mok 07phonefsod * r18c121f2be1c 10/src/phonefsod-fso.c: phonefsod-fso.c: fix typo to make it compile again
Feb 09 13:27:53 <mrmoku> JaMa: should build again :)
Feb 09 13:28:21 <JaMa> mrmoku: nice one :)
Feb 09 13:28:31 <Wonka> vanous123: :)
Feb 09 13:32:10 <mrmoku> JaMa: didn't expect something like that from TAsn... more from myself :P
Feb 09 13:33:58 <JaMa> mrmoku: I expected that last commit broke it.. and then I overlooked it too.. :)
Feb 09 13:34:21 <mrmoku> JaMa: yeah, overlooked it too... twice :)
Feb 09 13:34:30 <mrmoku> playya_: how did your toolchain efforts end?
Feb 09 13:34:51 <satish> how to create  /dev/spi0  and register SPI device with freerunner phone before make open() call ?
Feb 09 13:35:13 <JaMa> mrmoku: I guess you're ok with gcc-4.4.3 switch if shr-image compiles fine
Feb 09 13:35:19 <mrmoku> sure
Feb 09 13:36:31 <JaMa> maybe it will fix that libxml issue :)
Feb 09 13:36:38 <JaMa> but I doubt it..
Feb 09 13:44:10 <mrmoku> bbiab
Feb 09 14:05:47 <spaetz>  /j #ledger
Feb 09 14:05:49 <spaetz> arrg
Feb 09 14:05:53 <spaetz> ignore me :)
Feb 09 14:08:20 * dos1 added user spaetz to ignore list (reason: "as requested :P")
Feb 09 14:08:56 <spaetz> BLAH :P
Feb 09 14:09:10 <dos1> ;)
Feb 09 14:56:42 <pespin> registering to gsm netwrok is not working sometimes on reboot... I get this error:
Feb 09 14:56:43 <pespin> [ERROR] UsageController <9 R>: Resource GSM can't be enabled: Did not receive a reply. Possible
Feb 09 14:56:43 <pespin>  causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply 
Feb 09 14:56:43 <pespin> timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.. Trying to disable instead
Feb 09 14:57:03 <pespin> using latest shr-u
Feb 09 15:39:17 <sybren> hey folks
Feb 09 15:39:42 <misc> yes ?
Feb 09 15:40:21 <sybren> I'm using shr-testing. My root's homedir is mounted from the SD (see fstab at http://shr.pastebin.com/m4470f7f6) but for a while now it's no longer automatically mounted at boot.
Feb 09 15:40:36 <sybren> it still worked okay a few weeks ago
Feb 09 15:55:42 * DocScrutinizer wonders why everybody and his dog is so fsckng interested in open GSM firmware. Compared e.g. to nobody ever bitches about the firmware of his harddisk drive being closed source blob or even completely hidden
Feb 09 15:56:32 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: i do complain about that too :)
Feb 09 15:57:17 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: it's item #5 my list at http://iki.fi/lindi/firmware/free-firmware.txt
Feb 09 15:57:20 <sybren> I'm more complaining about my homedir not mounting, or about phoneui-messages being waaaay to slow in loading contact names for the numbers
Feb 09 15:58:54 <PaulFertser> lindi-: omg, you have a list even for that, you're continuing to amaze me :)
Feb 09 16:05:58 <DocScrutinizer> ok, lindi- so this is explicitly not for you:  All those bitching about GSM modem firmware should be open, to me seem to be liars on their motivations. There's nothing useful you could do to the GSM firmware, except cheating (or hope to, it won't work!) or crashing network, eavesdroping, etc. If you were concerned about review/fixes of the sw, you'd start where you actually *should* jhave concerns: on your datastorage aka hd
Feb 09 16:08:35 <sybren> DocScrutinizer: good point
Feb 09 16:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> of course you could think about 'improvements' like make the modem work without SIM, after initial authentication, or implementing a full multitasking alike swapping of all memory and registers, to log in to more than one cell/ntwork (with the same SIM then?). If you think a second time, all of that is either fraud, or you're messing with a cell for your private playground and don't care about the possible side effects. Would you 
Feb 09 16:19:48 <DocScrutinizer> grant same rights to mess up GSM to the guy next door who's a redneck and beats you up regularly?
Feb 09 16:31:56 <playya_> mrmoku, in a make update :/
Feb 09 16:32:12 <mrmoku> playya_: ouch :/
Feb 09 16:32:25 <playya_> i should rewrite some of the scripts
Feb 09 16:32:45 <mrmoku> guess I should add a check for dirtiness to the makefile...
Feb 09 16:32:54 <lindi-> DocScrutinizer: for hdd I have written http://iki.fi/lindi/darcs/crcloop/  that does transparent CRC checksums for any linux block device
Feb 09 16:33:13 <playya_> git already warns you
Feb 09 16:37:01 <playya_> could you help me with a few sed lines later?
Feb 09 16:38:10 <playya_> e already has some debian dirs. i want to package the SHR revision for ubuntu
Feb 09 16:38:53 <playya_> that people can run there apps on the host first
Feb 09 16:39:21 <mrmoku> well... my sed foo is not unlimited... but I can try :)
Feb 09 16:40:01 <playya_> i need the version and the package name from a AC_INIT line
Feb 09 16:40:10 <playya_> shouldn't be that hard
Feb 09 16:41:41 <TAsn> mrmoku, what did I do?
Feb 09 16:41:44 <TAsn> (to phonefsod?)
Feb 09 16:42:00 <TAsn> I changed a really minor thing iirc.
Feb 09 16:42:16 <mrmoku> TAsn: /* instead of */
Feb 09 16:42:17 <mrmoku> :P
Feb 09 16:42:23 <TAsn> weird
Feb 09 16:42:29 <TAsn> it should have colored everything weirdly :)
Feb 09 16:43:23 <TAsn> well, it is my fault :)
Feb 09 16:44:09 <TAsn> dos1, !!! SUPER PING !!!
Feb 09 16:44:16 <TAsn> mrmoku, opimd went crazy :P
Feb 09 16:44:33 <dos1> TAsn: MEGA PONG!!!
Feb 09 16:44:38 <TAsn> dos1, :)
Feb 09 16:44:51 <TAsn> dos1, how do I delete fields in opimd?
Feb 09 16:44:54 <TAsn> send "" ?
Feb 09 16:44:56 <TAsn> or None?
Feb 09 16:45:02 <TAsn> (python)
Feb 09 16:45:06 <dos1> delete?
Feb 09 16:45:08 <TAsn> (to the edit function)
Feb 09 16:45:11 <TAsn> dos1, not fields
Feb 09 16:45:14 <TAsn> I mean from a contact
Feb 09 16:45:18 <dos1> field from contact
Feb 09 16:45:20 <TAsn> i.e remove the Phone from the contact
Feb 09 16:45:25 <dos1> i think both None and "" should work
Feb 09 16:45:28 <TAsn> as I don't like it anymore :)
Feb 09 16:45:31 <TAsn> dos1, THEY DONT
Feb 09 16:45:37 <dos1> really?
Feb 09 16:45:37 <TAsn> actually, they kinda do
Feb 09 16:45:42 <TAsn> it gets deleted
Feb 09 16:45:45 <TAsn> but after a reboot
Feb 09 16:45:50 <dos1> hmm
Feb 09 16:45:51 <TAsn> there's a terrible mess
Feb 09 16:45:55 <dos1> sqlite backend?
Feb 09 16:45:56 <TAsn> and everything came back :(
Feb 09 16:45:58 <TAsn> aye.
Feb 09 16:46:02 <dos1> ok, i'll look at it
Feb 09 16:46:10 <TAsn> thanks :)
Feb 09 16:46:17 <TAsn> (though my database is already trashed :( )
Feb 09 16:46:20 <TAsn> dos1, and furthermore
Feb 09 16:46:30 <TAsn> pisi probably sent ""
Feb 09 16:46:33 <TAsn> to fields
Feb 09 16:46:39 <TAsn> and opimd created them all with "" values
Feb 09 16:46:40 <TAsn> =:(
Feb 09 16:46:48 <TAsn> I had 10k of fields
Feb 09 16:46:52 <TAsn> after importing my contacts
Feb 09 16:47:01 <TAsn> (but I didn't only see it from opimd)
Feb 09 16:48:14 <Serdar> TAsn, more then 5 lines is monologize :)
Feb 09 16:48:26 <TAsn> dos1, anyhow, please do and let me know if you need any more info.
Feb 09 16:48:41 <TAsn> Serdar, I'm an "Enter-key" spammer, it's a known fact :(
Feb 09 16:48:50 * DocScrutinizer mumbles prayers for opimd to get well eventually
Feb 09 16:48:56 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, :)
Feb 09 16:49:24 <Serdar> use mumble for mumbleing :)
Feb 09 16:50:49 <TAsn> mrmoku, btw, the contacts app is not perfect
Feb 09 16:50:52 <TAsn> it sometimes crashes
Feb 09 16:51:02 <DocScrutinizer> TAsn: hey, say hello to raster. Two of a kind
Feb 09 16:51:14 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, I know, our logs are crazy :)
Feb 09 16:51:55 <TAsn> mrmoku, try creating a couple of contacts one after the other.
Feb 09 16:52:48 <DocScrutinizer> hey othing is perfect
Feb 09 16:52:49 <Serdar> you woke up mickeyl 
Feb 09 16:53:03 <mickeyl> *yawn*
Feb 09 16:53:22 <DocScrutinizer> Kmail crashes randomly after grepping over 80k of msgs
Feb 09 16:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> 80k, not 80kB
Feb 09 16:54:05 <DocScrutinizer> moinmoin, mickeyl 
Feb 09 16:55:00 <CIA-47> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07opimd-utils * r19849e77f786 10/ (opimd-messages opimd-notifier opimd-resolve): notifier, messages, resolve: make name resolving faster
Feb 09 16:55:10 <CIA-47> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07opimd-utils * r587f39ed1310 10/data/po/ru/ (10 files): Merge branch 'master' of git@git.shr-project.org:opimd-utils
Feb 09 16:55:15 <TAsn> dos1, what's that name resolving?
Feb 09 16:55:35 <dos1> TAsn: contact resolving from number; that's just what i told you yesterday
Feb 09 16:55:48 <TAsn> remind me again how to use it please :)
Feb 09 16:55:50 <dos1> TAsn: it was using for loop instead of _at_least_one :P
Feb 09 16:55:59 <TAsn> oh
Feb 09 16:56:01 <TAsn> opimd-utils
Feb 09 16:56:02 <TAsn> sucks
Feb 09 16:56:03 <TAsn> :)
Feb 09 16:56:07 <dos1> TAsn: phone resolving? :P
Feb 09 16:56:21 <TAsn> bah, I'll start using this at least one crap
Feb 09 16:56:25 <TAsn> :)
Feb 09 16:56:48 <TAsn> anyhow
Feb 09 16:57:01 <TAsn> 4280|117|Cell phone|11111111
Feb 09 16:57:04 <TAsn> while
Feb 09 16:57:24 <TAsn> opimd-cli c query | grep "Cell phone"
Feb 09 16:57:27 <TAsn> returns nothing
Feb 09 16:59:39 <DocScrutinizer> opimd-cli c query | less     might help
Feb 09 17:00:00 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, I checked with less
Feb 09 17:00:13 <TAsn> (I checked manually) I just showed that grep also returns nothing :)
Feb 09 17:00:22 <DocScrutinizer> nah, hold it. Oly if you got *decent* less on your device, instead of you-know-what-crap
Feb 09 17:01:27 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, :)
Feb 09 17:01:29 <TAsn> actually
Feb 09 17:01:31 <TAsn> | vim -
Feb 09 17:01:32 <TAsn> :P
Feb 09 17:01:41 <TAsn> dos1, remind me how to use that please :P
Feb 09 17:01:53 <TAsn> (_at_least_one)
Feb 09 17:02:16 <dos1> TAsn: Query({'Name':'dos', 'Nickname': 'dos', '_at_least_one':True})
Feb 09 17:02:17 <TAsn> can be used with
Feb 09 17:02:19 <TAsn> get_single_entry_single_field
Feb 09 17:02:21 <TAsn> right?
Feb 09 17:02:22 <TAsn> :)
Feb 09 17:03:08 <dos1> TAsn: should work, it's the same engine supporting those calls AFAIR ;)
Feb 09 17:03:18 <TAsn> okie :)
Feb 09 17:03:20 <TAsn> thanks.
Feb 09 17:05:13 <TAsn> dos1, btw
Feb 09 17:05:23 <TAsn> nvm
Feb 09 17:06:45 <sybren> I'm using shr-testing. My root's homedir is mounted from the SD (see fstab at http://shr.pastebin.com/m4470f7f6) but for a while now it's no longer automatically mounted at boot. It worked okay weeks ago. Does anyone know what I should do to get my root homedir mounted again before X is started?
Feb 09 17:10:28 <TAsn> mrmoku|away, ping
Feb 09 17:14:09 <DocScrutinizer> query({'_OR_', 'contact.address.name.*':'*':'dos'}, {'_OR_', 'contact.address.name.nickame':'*':'dos1'}, {'_AND_',  'contact.address.date':'meeting': '2010-02-11'. '_LESS_THAN_'})
Feb 09 17:19:08 <DocScrutinizer> type:'contact.name.firstname', name:'Vorname', Value:'dos'; type:'contact.name.nickname', name:'IRC Nick', Value:'dos'; type:'contact:date', name:'meeting', value:'2010-02-09 22:45'
Feb 09 17:21:46 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * r7ebe770b54d7 10/msmvterm/ (6 files in 2 dirs): msmvterm: make it compile and run the cmdloop
Feb 09 17:33:21 <DocScrutinizer> plus any number of additional (type,name,value) tuples that hold birthday, Surname, phone, cellphone, street, ... whatever you like
Feb 09 17:34:32 <DocScrutinizer> the whole record returned
Feb 09 17:39:07 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07cornucopia * r3a0b1c59587e 10/fsogsmd/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: Fix compilation if gsm0710mux has been disabled
Feb 09 17:40:54 <TAsn> dos1, found any bugs in opimd ? :P
Feb 09 18:04:33 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * rc36a6695114e 10/libmsmcomm/src/ (6 files): libmsmcomm: fix some compiler warnings
Feb 09 18:04:34 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r250688f4dca0 10/libmsmcomm/ (7 files in 2 dirs): libmsmcomm: message structures are now in the msmcomm.sdef file too
Feb 09 18:04:35 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07msmcomm * r1a69d9268d8a 10/msmvterm/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git.freesmartphone.org:msmcomm
Feb 09 18:11:12 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * rd1453d5337f2 10/msmvterm/ (6 files in 2 dirs): msmvterm: command loop now implemented with registering commands, 'help', and 'quit'
Feb 09 18:26:34 <TAsn> mrmoku|away, look at the commit :)
Feb 09 18:26:45 <CIA-47> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-ui * r3f05517d931f 10/src/ (phoneui-utils.c phoneui-utils.h): Improved name resolving to look in all the fields
Feb 09 18:28:18 <TAsn> finally more field support :)
Feb 09 18:29:14 <TAsn> dos1, found anything useful about my opimd bug?
Feb 09 18:29:48 <TAsn> dos1, btw, there's something I miss in opimd, I really need "Field added/removed" signals. :)
Feb 09 18:30:00 <TAsn> atm I probe for the fields all the time
Feb 09 18:30:02 <TAsn> which is kinda slow
Feb 09 18:31:40 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * r67c7bcb38f17 10/msmvterm/src/commands.vala: msmvterm: add stubs for all commands currently known by msmcterm
Feb 09 18:38:34 <Q-Master> TAsn: any news?
Feb 09 18:38:42 * Q-Master is drunk
Feb 09 18:38:54 <TAsn> Q-Master, unfortunately no ;(
Feb 09 18:40:18 <TAsn> mrmoku, look at the commit ;)
Feb 09 18:41:03 <TAsn> It's terribly slow atm (here, because I have ~8 phone fields) but it's cool
Feb 09 18:41:07 <TAsn> resolves from all fields
Feb 09 18:41:14 <mrmoku> nice :)
Feb 09 18:42:04 <DocScrutinizer> Q-Master: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- please walk this line
Feb 09 18:43:46 <Q-Master> DocScrutinizer: no way! 8)(
Feb 09 18:44:46 <Wonka> I'd only be able to hobble...
Feb 09 18:55:01 <onen|openBmap> leviathan: ping
Feb 09 18:56:10 <mickeyl> where are uint8_t and friends defined?
Feb 09 18:57:22 <larsc> stdint.h
Feb 09 18:57:25 <mickeyl> thanks
Feb 09 18:58:03 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * rcaa02cfee666 10/libmsmcomm/ (src/msmcomm.h vapi/msmcomm-1.0.vapi): libmsmcomm: include stdint.h and fix inclusion headers in msmcomm-1.0.vapi
Feb 09 19:01:04 <TAsn> dos1, ? :)
Feb 09 19:07:06 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * r066c0e225669 10/libmsmcomm/ (src/context.c vapi/msmcomm-1.0.vapi): libmsmcomm: add msmcomm_new to ease binding to Vala
Feb 09 19:12:49 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * r8a1a831926da 10/msmvterm/ (Makefile.am configure.ac src/commands.vala src/terminal.vala): msmvterm: require libfsotransport
Feb 09 19:18:57 <Wonka> jftr: my "bitbake -k task-feed-shr ..." is still running...
Feb 09 19:38:00 <TAsn> dos1, any new info about my opimd bug?
Feb 09 19:45:28 <JesusMcCloud> ~logs
Feb 09 19:45:29 <apt> All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Feb 09 19:46:47 <KaZeR> anyone from the shr project around?
Feb 09 19:47:09 <JesusMcCloud> heya! what's the progress on elementary based phonelog?
Feb 09 19:48:21 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, none.
Feb 09 19:48:29 <TAsn> KaZeR, ?
Feb 09 19:48:30 <JesusMcCloud> grml...
Feb 09 19:49:07 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * r83b1c84eaf31 10/src/frameworkd-glib-dbus.c: 
Feb 09 19:49:07 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: fix signal handling of SignalStrength signals
Feb 09 19:49:07 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: parameter for the callback is G_TYPE_INT not G_TYPE_UINT
Feb 09 19:49:07 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de>
Feb 09 19:49:52 <mrmoku> ohh... phonelog is lying dirty in my tree :P
Feb 09 19:50:00 <KaZeR> TAsn, i was curious about the versionning of the navit package : 1:0.1.0-svn what is the 1: for?
Feb 09 19:50:39 <JesusMcCloud> mrmoku, näh... pyphonelog sucks, even with empty db it takes >3 secs to display...
Feb 09 19:50:41 <mrmoku> KaZeR: that is the package epoch from OE
Feb 09 19:50:59 <TAsn> KaZeR, ^ :)
Feb 09 19:51:03 <KaZeR> package epoch? what's that?
Feb 09 19:51:12 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, it's not pyphonelogs fault!
Feb 09 19:51:17 <TAsn> it's sucky opimd!
Feb 09 19:51:30 <mrmoku> something to make it 'sort newer' ...
Feb 09 19:52:17 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, but pyphonelog was always slooooow... elmphonelog showed really quick (had both installed in parallel, acessing the same db, when opimd wasnt integrated...
Feb 09 19:52:47 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, are you saying pyphonelog became slower since switch to opimd?
Feb 09 19:52:55 <KaZeR> mrmoku,  the thing is that because of that weird versionning, it always prefers to use package from shr rather than possibly newer (but i agree differently organized) package from navit
Feb 09 19:53:09 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, YES
Feb 09 19:53:17 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, pyphonelog was amazingly fast without opimd
Feb 09 19:53:29 <TAsn> all it does now is waiting for opimd to work :|
Feb 09 19:53:32 <mrmoku> KaZeR: hmm... Ic
Feb 09 19:53:36 <TAsn> it was < 3 secs iirc
Feb 09 19:53:42 <TAsn> before the switch that is.
Feb 09 19:54:13 <JesusMcCloud> hmm, but repainting after a call for example is also sucky (i know new glamo driver +gtk...)
Feb 09 19:54:53 <KaZeR> mrmoku, i can change navit's versionning, that's no big deal. but i wanted to know if it was done on purpose
Feb 09 19:55:33 <mrmoku> KaZeR: probably JaMa knows exactly why
Feb 09 19:55:36 <KaZeR> it would probably be a bad idea to mix shr packages and navit packages, but imo, if you setup the navit repository, it's because you want to use theses packages
Feb 09 19:56:08 <mrmoku> no idea if opkg offers some mechanism for that... probably not :/
Feb 09 19:56:23 <mrmoku> KaZeR: do you build navit packages with OE?
Feb 09 19:56:30 <CIA-47> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-ui * r3f05517d931f 10/src/ (phoneui-utils.c phoneui-utils.h): Improved name resolving to look in all the fields
Feb 09 19:56:41 <CIA-47> SHR: 03tom 07libphone-ui * rabb2f1957388 10/src/ (phoneui-utils.c phoneui-utils.h): merged with master
Feb 09 19:56:53 <KaZeR> mrmoku, not sure, i'm not the one who set up the build process
Feb 09 19:57:10 <mrmoku> if so... just set PE in the recipe to 1 too
Feb 09 19:58:01 <JesusMcCloud> mrmoku, quick question: is it safe to disable the sim backend for messages?
Feb 09 19:58:33 <KaZeR> mrmoku, thanks for the tip
Feb 09 19:58:46 <JesusMcCloud> (haven't used my fr for >1month)
Feb 09 19:59:33 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud: should be safe yeah
Feb 09 19:59:49 <TAsn> I finally migrated all of my contacts
Feb 09 19:59:55 <TAsn> and I now use only sqlite backend
Feb 09 19:59:59 <JesusMcCloud> good, wanna keep my sim clean...
Feb 09 20:00:15 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, as long as you don't use it as default
Feb 09 20:00:19 <TAsn> it'll stay clean
Feb 09 20:00:43 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, so sim is not used fot temporary storage of msgs on arrival?
Feb 09 20:00:58 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, no
Feb 09 20:01:01 <JesusMcCloud> s/fot/for/
Feb 09 20:01:02 <apt> JesusMcCloud meant: TAsn, so sim is not used for temporary storage of msgs on arrival?
Feb 09 20:01:07 <JesusMcCloud> thx
Feb 09 20:01:15 <TAsn> and it'll be used for storing on errors (according to dos) no matter what you do
Feb 09 20:01:20 <TAsn> so it's better to put it on
Feb 09 20:01:32 <TAsn> just so you won't loose anything
Feb 09 20:02:04 <JesusMcCloud> thanks, TAsn about migrating contacts.. is there a script available or does pisi work?
Feb 09 20:02:26 <TAsn> no script
Feb 09 20:02:34 <TAsn> and pisi didn't do it well
Feb 09 20:02:53 <TAsn> I used pisi
Feb 09 20:02:59 <TAsn> and then manually fixed stuff
Feb 09 20:03:13 <TAsn> but I haven't tried sim -> opimd
Feb 09 20:03:30 <TAsn> I tried vcf -> opimd
Feb 09 20:03:57 <TAsn> (took it from an old phone backup I took before moving to moko's sim)
Feb 09 20:03:58 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * re99e5eff088f 10/src/ (frameworkd-glib-dbus.c frameworkd-glib-dbus.h): 
Feb 09 20:03:58 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: fix registering to UpdatedMessage signal
Feb 09 20:03:58 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de>
Feb 09 20:04:18 <TAsn> mrmoku, please let me know when it's built. :)
Feb 09 20:04:27 <JesusMcCloud> ... that remids me, i do have google account...
Feb 09 20:08:12 <pespin> mrmoku, what about adding an option in new contacts app you are coding to copy the selected contact to SIM? :D
Feb 09 20:08:45 <TAsn> pespin, I don't think it's on the top of the todo :)
Feb 09 20:09:21 <pespin> TAsn, np, just saying I'd like that feature. Do you agree to have it there at some time in the future?
Feb 09 20:09:28 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, is importing to opim using pisi also as damn slow as exporting?
Feb 09 20:09:45 <TAsn> JesusMcCloud, I think :)
Feb 09 20:09:48 <TAsn> it's SLOW
Feb 09 20:10:07 <TAsn> pespin, sure, it's important.
Feb 09 20:10:14 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, gimme some numbers please how many contacts do you have and how long did is approx take?
Feb 09 20:10:26 <TAsn> I would say 10 mins
Feb 09 20:10:29 <TAsn> 150 contacts
Feb 09 20:10:51 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, ok this is not *that* bad...
Feb 09 20:11:00 <TAsn> but maybe I didn't notice and it took me a couple of hours
Feb 09 20:11:03 <TAsn> really, no idea :)
Feb 09 20:11:09 <TAsn> though I remember 10 mins
Feb 09 20:12:49 <Heinervdm> JesusMcCloud: i've a question about e-wm themes :) how have you enabled the flaunche icons?
Feb 09 20:13:27 <JesusMcCloud> Heinervdm, added an flaunch section to the theme
Feb 09 20:13:43 <JesusMcCloud> Heinervdm, so for current shr-u it woudl be best to remove it
Feb 09 20:13:43 <Heinervdm> JesusMcCloud: would it be possible to add sth else?
Feb 09 20:13:54 <Heinervdm> i would like an notification area instead
Feb 09 20:13:56 <JesusMcCloud> Heinervdm, i dunno what else has been implemented...
Feb 09 20:14:24 <pespin> hmm links doesn't have javascript support? :(
Feb 09 20:14:41 <JesusMcCloud> Heinervdm, if you hack illume and add it to the theme
Feb 09 20:15:22 <JesusMcCloud> edje is *ONLY* for looks and feel, *NOT* for adding features
Feb 09 20:15:29 <Heinervdm> JesusMcCloud: ok, but for the buttons you don't have an idea why they have multiplied?
Feb 09 20:15:40 <JesusMcCloud> Heinervdm, changes is illume
Feb 09 20:15:45 <JesusMcCloud> i guess..
Feb 09 20:16:33 <Heinervdm> JesusMcCloud: i hoped you had an idea, how to solve it ;)
Feb 09 20:16:44 <JesusMcCloud> Heinervdm, must be a chenge in illuem code
Feb 09 20:17:03 <Heinervdm> ok
Feb 09 20:17:18 <JesusMcCloud> atm it might be best to remove flaunch from theme
Feb 09 20:17:50 <JesusMcCloud> Heinervdm, ask in #e
Feb 09 20:18:20 <Heinervdm> JesusMcCloud: no :P
Feb 09 20:18:32 <Heinervdm> i'm to lazy for asking there
Feb 09 20:18:52 <Heinervdm> how do i update an svn checkout to the lastest rev?
Feb 09 20:19:21 <JesusMcCloud> svn co ?!
Feb 09 20:19:26 <Heinervdm> nvm, used wrong dir
Feb 09 20:20:51 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, what is the field name for contact's picture?
Feb 09 20:21:25 <TAsn> Photo
Feb 09 20:21:39 <JesusMcCloud> thx
Feb 09 20:21:43 <TAsn> np.
Feb 09 20:22:05 <JesusMcCloud> i guess i have to use an absolute path?
Feb 09 20:24:59 <TAsn> mrmoku, ^ ?
Feb 09 20:26:42 <JesusMcCloud> TAsn, absolute paths work
Feb 09 20:26:52 <JesusMcCloud> including leading slash
Feb 09 20:26:52 <TAsn> I know absolute works
Feb 09 20:27:08 <TAsn> I just didn't know if you can omit it (for use from default dirs)
Feb 09 20:27:16 <JesusMcCloud> ??
Feb 09 20:27:30 <TAsn> I just didn't know if there's a default search dir
Feb 09 20:27:38 <TAsn> if a relative path is supplied
Feb 09 20:27:42 <JesusMcCloud> ah ok
Feb 09 20:27:55 <JesusMcCloud> (just looked up the word 'omit')
Feb 09 20:28:57 <mrmoku> JesusMcCloud, TAsn: atm absolute paths for photos
Feb 09 20:29:08 <TAsn> mrmoku, i c, thanks ;)
Feb 09 20:29:16 <mrmoku> we probably will make relative paths to the home work too
Feb 09 20:29:30 <JesusMcCloud> anywho i gotta go, thx for the help and give spaetz a pad on the back for the -testing snapshots!
Feb 09 20:29:38 * JesusMcCloud <- afk
Feb 09 20:29:41 <playya_> could anyone tell me how to represent a delegate in UML?
Feb 09 20:30:58 <Heinervdm> flaunch: http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/e/src/modules/illume/e_flaunch.c#L99
Feb 09 20:31:05 <Heinervdm> there the 10 comes from
Feb 09 20:32:23 <dos1> changed both number and used category...
Feb 09 20:32:29 <dos1> without even changing it in comments
Feb 09 20:32:45 <TAsn> dos1, opimd - anything new about the bug?
Feb 09 20:32:53 <TAsn> dos1, trac theme - anything new at all? :P
Feb 09 20:32:54 <dos1> TAsn: no, sorry, didn't have time today
Feb 09 20:32:59 <TAsn> dos1, :(
Feb 09 20:37:45 <mrmoku> dos1: did you contact bearstech?
Feb 09 20:38:05 <dos1> mrmoku: i think i forgot ;x i'll do tomorrow
Feb 09 20:38:10 <mrmoku> ok
Feb 09 20:54:01 <Serdar> hmm 
Feb 09 20:54:15 <Serdar> this FSOSHRCON stuff sounds nice
Feb 09 20:54:23 <Serdar> but.. I don't know.
Feb 09 20:55:30 <Heinervdm> Serdar: it it's in essen it wouldn't be far for you
Feb 09 20:55:37 <Heinervdm> if it's
Feb 09 20:56:12 <Serdar> hmm
Feb 09 20:56:47 <Serdar> hm
Feb 09 20:56:49 <Serdar> yeah
Feb 09 20:57:53 <TAsn> it's a 600$ plane ticket for me
Feb 09 20:58:01 <TAsn> doesn't matter where it'll be at
Feb 09 20:58:21 <Serdar> it would be $0 for me
Feb 09 20:58:22 <TAsn> (plane ticket alone, not including in country transportation and food/sleep)
Feb 09 20:58:46 * TAsn hates living in the middle of nowhere :P
Feb 09 20:59:11 <Serdar> are you from Baveria/Germany?
Feb 09 20:59:24 <Serdar> or Cologne?
Feb 09 21:00:07 <Heinervdm>  /whois TAsn
Feb 09 21:00:08 <Serdar> sounds like Cologne, where could middle of nowhere be than cologne?
Feb 09 21:00:25 <Serdar> Heinervdm, Cologne! No need to look!
Feb 09 21:00:33 <Heinervdm> :D
Feb 09 21:00:46 <TAsn> Serdar, Israel :(
Feb 09 21:01:24 <Serdar> TAsn, can't you borrow a tank?
Feb 09 21:01:54 <TAsn> nah, all are in use :P
Feb 09 21:02:33 <Serdar> does it matter? there is not one kind of borrowing.
Feb 09 21:02:41 <Heinervdm> My FR just told me that i have to charge it, charged it last time at fosdem :)
Feb 09 21:02:45 <Serdar> borrowing with asking and the other way
Feb 09 21:02:56 <Heinervdm> that are 3 days
Feb 09 21:03:38 <TAsn> Serdar, I can't take without asking, they'll notice.
Feb 09 21:03:46 <TAsn> I may be able to steal a fighter jet
Feb 09 21:04:09 <Serdar> isn't that faster?
Feb 09 21:04:54 <TAsn> Serdar, yeah, but fuel is terribly expensive, because we don't have trade agreements with the arab countries (oil)
Feb 09 21:05:33 <Serdar> isn't there enough fuel for a one way trip to germany?
Feb 09 21:05:51 <Serdar> but refilling it will cost you 600$
Feb 09 21:06:23 <TAsn> Serdar, I don't know how it's like where you live, but here it's considered impolite to borrow a vehicle and return it with an empty tank.
Feb 09 21:07:37 <TAsn> anyhow, /me is off taking a shower.
Feb 09 21:07:47 <Serdar> I never borrowed a fighter jet yet
Feb 09 21:08:51 <TAsn> Serdar, vehicle-etiquette applies on all vehicles
Feb 09 21:09:00 <TAsn> I never borrowed one myself either.
Feb 09 21:09:06 <TAsn> anyhow, shower.
Feb 09 21:14:55 <Serdar> Heinervdm, the problem is, I don't know what I should do there. :>
Feb 09 21:15:36 <Heinervdm> Serdar: the same as in the zoo: watching the animals
Feb 09 21:15:44 <Serdar> hm
Feb 09 21:15:56 <Serdar> no feeding allowed.
Feb 09 21:16:10 <Heinervdm> :D
Feb 09 21:16:21 <Serdar> when was it last year?
Feb 09 21:17:03 <Heinervdm> 22.-24.5.
Feb 09 21:17:12 <Serdar> (don't believe that this question ist correct)
Feb 09 21:17:17 <Serdar> oh it'S lot of time
Feb 09 21:17:49 <Serdar> CeBIT next month. but isn't LinuxTag on may?
Feb 09 21:18:23 <Heinervdm> don't know. but since LinuxTag is in Berlin i'm not interested in it anymore
Feb 09 21:19:01 <Serdar> you were interested in it, if it was in Karlsruhe or Wiesbaden?
Feb 09 21:19:16 <Heinervdm> yes
Feb 09 21:19:19 <Serdar> it's the same amount of time you are traveling
Feb 09 21:19:41 <Serdar> okay maybe not from komblenz
Feb 09 21:19:50 <Serdar> but Duesseldorf is centralized
Feb 09 21:19:54 <Heinervdm> Berlin is about 6 hours, Wiesbaden 1,5
Feb 09 21:20:09 <Heinervdm> Karlsruhe was about 2,5
Feb 09 21:20:27 <Serdar> need 2,5 for karlsruhe too
Feb 09 21:20:33 <Heinervdm> i think, don't remeber anymore, that was 2006 ro so
Feb 09 21:21:08 <Serdar> I was on LinuxTag 2005 and 2008
Feb 09 21:21:36 <Heinervdm> i was there 2006 and 2007
Feb 09 21:25:17 <Serdar> will LPI be on FSOSHRCON?
Feb 09 21:25:53 <Heinervdm> Why should they be there=
Feb 09 21:26:04 <Heinervdm> it's just about SHR and FSO
Feb 09 21:26:05 <Serdar> why not?
Feb 09 21:26:20 <Serdar> it's a Linuxhouse right?
Feb 09 21:26:26 <Serdar> or Linuxhotel
Feb 09 21:26:36 <PaulFertser> lindi-: btw, some maxtor/seagate (?) hdds have a jumper that tells them not to spin up on power on.
Feb 09 21:26:48 <Heinervdm> if it will be the same place as last year
Feb 09 21:26:49 <ThibG> (is it safe to upgrade SHR-unstable?)
Feb 09 21:26:55 <lindi-> PaulFertser: really?
Feb 09 21:27:01 <TAsn> Heinervdm, DAMN YOU GUYS, I need to take a 1hr drive to the airport, 4hrs flight and a long drive in germany (not including all the hassle flights include) to get to anywhere :(
Feb 09 21:27:03 <PaulFertser> lindi-: yeah, i think i can google it for you
Feb 09 21:27:12 <lindi-> PaulFertser: how can i boot from one?
Feb 09 21:27:25 <TAsn> ThibG, I'm running an up to date version, so yeah, I think.
Feb 09 21:27:42 <ThibG> TAsn, ok, thanks
Feb 09 21:28:53 <Heinervdm> TAsn: i need about 3 hrs, so you just need double of time
Feb 09 21:29:07 <TAsn> Heinervdm, and 10 times the money
Feb 09 21:29:13 <TAsn> and 15 times the hassle
Feb 09 21:29:14 <TAsn> :P
Feb 09 21:29:18 <Heinervdm> :)
Feb 09 21:29:30 <TAsn> not to mention the fact that I don't speak german :P
Feb 09 21:29:34 <PaulFertser> lindi-: you can't obviously
Feb 09 21:29:41 <PaulFertser> lindi-: it's a jumper setting
Feb 09 21:29:55 <Heinervdm> TAsn: there was a section about sponsoring in mickys mail
Feb 09 21:30:39 <TAsn> Heinervdm, yeah, noticed that. But even if I get a sugar-daddy, that still won't save me the hassle/time :P
Feb 09 21:30:44 <Heinervdm> TAsn: you can speak english, if you ask german people younger then 40 then most of them can understand you
Feb 09 21:31:02 <TAsn> Heinervdm, I know, I was just kidding about the last part.
Feb 09 21:31:03 <PaulFertser> lindi-: found, it's WD :) http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2579-001037.pdf
Feb 09 21:31:35 <PaulFertser> PM2 mode
Feb 09 21:34:20 <Serdar> mickey|tv, query?
Feb 09 21:34:51 <leviathan> onen|openBmap_: pong [delay: 5h]
Feb 09 21:35:04 <Serdar> leviathan, great timeout
Feb 09 21:35:12 <leviathan> xD
Feb 09 21:35:33 <Serdar> its like ipoac
Feb 09 21:36:24 <Serdar> IPoAC
Feb 09 21:38:47 <onen|openBmap_> leviathan: hi
Feb 09 21:38:54 <onen|openBmap_> leviathan: :D
Feb 09 21:39:20 <leviathan> I'm try'n atm to clean codeaurora from pmem and merge it into upstream
Feb 09 21:39:39 <leviathan> means: get it boot in upstream
Feb 09 21:39:55 <leviathan> but pavels nonfunctional driver stuff is still around there
Feb 09 21:39:56 <leviathan> ... -.-
Feb 09 21:40:08 <onen|openBmap_> leviathan: I had a  question for you: g1 + SHR/FSO. For logging for openBmap I would need: GPS-GSM cells info-(WiFi possibly). It does not need to work for calls, for WPA, etc.
Feb 09 21:40:27 <onen|openBmap_> leviathan: do you think this is (will be) available any time soon?
Feb 09 21:41:47 <leviathan> uuhhhm
Feb 09 21:41:57 <onen|openBmap_> leviathan: I have understood that you the project made good progresses lately...
Feb 09 21:42:02 <leviathan> you can scan for GSM/UMTS stations
Feb 09 21:42:06 <leviathan> can register
Feb 09 21:42:11 <leviathan> and also make phonecalls
Feb 09 21:42:18 <leviathan> also wesnot works
Feb 09 21:42:24 <leviathan> as GNUtoo showed me ;D
Feb 09 21:43:07 <onen|openBmap_> leviathan: I see. The mandatory things are available then ;-)
Feb 09 21:43:46 <GNUtoo> leviathan, finally
Feb 09 21:44:04 <onen|openBmap_> leviathan: installing shr on g1 means flashing it right? no way to have (kind of) dual booting? (which would allow me to have a "working" phone under android, and a real Linux system for real fun (hacking)
Feb 09 21:44:13 <GNUtoo> leviathan, did you compile xf86-video-msm without neon ?
Feb 09 21:44:18 <GNUtoo> how far did you get
Feb 09 21:44:58 <onen|openBmap_> stefan_schmidt: hallo du! what's up?
Feb 09 21:45:04 <GNUtoo> because I was waiting the whole day for some gdb answer in #gdb and then I was fedup and looked at the source and there was non-optional neon things
Feb 09 21:45:18 <leviathan> hmm
Feb 09 21:45:31 <leviathan> you mean: I should try to get it work with our kernel?
Feb 09 21:45:40 <leviathan> good, then I could merge ours into upstream
Feb 09 21:45:41 <GNUtoo> leviathan, do you know what neon is?
Feb 09 21:45:50 <leviathan> uhhm
Feb 09 21:45:52 <leviathan> gas?
Feb 09 21:46:02 <leviathan> was used for some time in neon lights
Feb 09 21:46:15 <leviathan> now theres other, cheaper gas in it
Feb 09 21:46:15 <GNUtoo> by gas you mean the assembler?
Feb 09 21:46:20 <leviathan> nope
Feb 09 21:46:22 <onen|openBmap_> ok guys, need some sleep. good night.
Feb 09 21:46:24 <GNUtoo> ah ok
Feb 09 21:46:28 <GNUtoo> so I'll explain
Feb 09 21:46:30 <leviathan> I mean like hydrogenium
Feb 09 21:46:31 <leviathan> :)
Feb 09 21:46:41 <leviathan> but not reactive
Feb 09 21:46:42 <leviathan> ;)
Feb 09 21:46:55 <GNUtoo> neon is like mmx
Feb 09 21:46:59 <leviathan> aha
Feb 09 21:47:01 <GNUtoo> for arm*v7* cpus
Feb 09 21:47:17 <GNUtoo> it's a single instruction multiple data I think
Feb 09 21:47:26 <GNUtoo> anyway we do not have neon
Feb 09 21:47:33 <GNUtoo> we only have armv6 without vfp
Feb 09 21:47:41 <GNUtoo> so we must get rid of it
Feb 09 21:47:55 <leviathan> uhhm, ok
Feb 09 21:48:19 <Serdar> hmm
Feb 09 21:48:46 <Serdar> can I sell my debug board at mailing list?
Feb 09 21:48:55 <GNUtoo> mickey|tv, is still looking tv
Feb 09 21:49:25 <GNUtoo> leviathan, did you assist at the last talk?
Feb 09 21:49:28 <GNUtoo> at fosdem?
Feb 09 21:49:31 <TAsn> Heinervdm, what an elementary calender widget? anything new?
Feb 09 21:49:32 <GNUtoo> s/?//
Feb 09 21:49:33 <apt> GNUtoo meant: at fosdem
Feb 09 21:49:52 <leviathan> GNUtoo: yes
Feb 09 21:50:01 <leviathan> I was looking for you, but didnt see you
Feb 09 21:50:22 <leviathan> there was nothing really new for me
Feb 09 21:50:33 <leviathan> except, that I have really to look onto my coding style
Feb 09 21:50:34 <leviathan> :)
Feb 09 21:51:01 <leviathan> because checkpatch returns a lot of critic
Feb 09 21:51:21 <leviathan> leviathan@dizzy-6 /mnt/sda/experimental $ ls scripts/checkpatch.pl
Feb 09 21:51:21 <leviathan> scripts/checkpatch.pl
Feb 09 21:51:39 <GNUtoo> leviathan, apart the good commit messages?
Feb 09 21:51:45 <Serdar> if anyone need a debug board, I am selling one for 25 EUR. It's new, never used, because it was for a someone but he hasn't show up on fosdem :/
Feb 09 21:51:52 <Serdar> now I have 2 boards :/
Feb 09 21:52:00 <Heinervdm> TAsn: morphis is lazy, he still hasen't sent it upstream
Feb 09 21:52:01 <GNUtoo> Serdar, too bad I wanted one
Feb 09 21:52:05 <leviathan> Serdar: is it usable for other smartphones too?
Feb 09 21:52:12 <Serdar> no idea.
Feb 09 21:52:13 <TAsn> Heinervdm, bah :)
Feb 09 21:52:24 <Serdar> GNUtoo, you was on FOSDEM?
Feb 09 21:52:26 <TAsn> Heinervdm, any specific reason? or jut pure laziness?
Feb 09 21:52:28 <GNUtoo> yes
Feb 09 21:52:29 <leviathan> Serdar: yes
Feb 09 21:52:30 <leviathan> me too
Feb 09 21:52:57 <Heinervdm> TAsn: i think the pre is more important to him
Feb 09 21:52:57 <Serdar> GNUtoo, maybe you live near Duesseldorf? :)
Feb 09 21:53:10 <TAsn> Heinervdm, I'll mail him :)
Feb 09 21:53:13 <leviathan> Serdar: nope, atm more in my region
Feb 09 21:53:14 <leviathan> :)
Feb 09 21:53:21 <leviathan> aka. switzerland
Feb 09 21:53:26 <Serdar> oh
Feb 09 21:53:31 <Heinervdm> Serdar: GNUtoo was the one showing around the g1 and i think you gave him a beer ;)
Feb 09 21:53:34 <Serdar> not EU :D
Feb 09 21:53:37 <GNUtoo> Serdar, italy
Feb 09 21:53:43 <Serdar> ah, right
Feb 09 21:53:55 <Serdar> oh.
Feb 09 21:54:02 <GNUtoo> I didn't drink any bear...
Feb 09 21:54:11 <Serdar> you drank my beer and don't congratulate me for my birthday? :O
Feb 09 21:54:12 <GNUtoo> but some people arround me did
Feb 09 21:54:15 <Serdar> no one did :(
Feb 09 21:54:26 <GNUtoo> I was the one drinking water
Feb 09 21:54:39 <TAsn> Heinervdm, mailed him. :)
Feb 09 21:54:45 <Heinervdm> TAsn: ok :)
Feb 09 21:55:03 <Serdar> I was the one who told Heinervdm to stop because Deubeuliou needed to show up :D
Feb 09 21:55:33 <Serdar> lack of time.
Feb 09 21:55:57 <leviathan> I drank half a bottle jack daniels on the way to FOSDEM
Feb 09 21:56:03 <leviathan> it was so hard >_<
Feb 09 21:56:11 <Heinervdm> I never expected that i can talk for half an hour
Feb 09 21:56:23 <Serdar> Heinervdm, you was really nervous
Feb 09 21:56:28 <leviathan> Heinervdm: always new experiences
Feb 09 21:56:35 <Heinervdm> Serdar: as always
Feb 09 21:56:44 <Serdar> Heinervdm, was it your first presentation?
Feb 09 21:57:15 <leviathan> Heinervdm: always keep in mind that they are great full to learn new things from you
Feb 09 21:57:19 <leviathan> so no fear
Feb 09 21:57:37 <leviathan> hmm
Feb 09 21:57:52 <leviathan> GNUtoo: I'll look, how to disable neon
Feb 09 21:58:07 <GNUtoo> I'm doing it
Feb 09 21:58:08 <leviathan> but I fear, we will have to hack into the driver a disablation or so
Feb 09 21:58:08 <Heinervdm> Serdar: first public talk, all my other talks were at university
Feb 09 21:58:11 <Serdar> anyway I have two debug boards both new so don't need one selling for 25 EUR.
Feb 09 21:58:23 <Serdar> Heinervdm, and that's not public?
Feb 09 21:58:36 <GNUtoo> I think it's easy
Feb 09 21:59:30 <Heinervdm> Serdar: not in that way :) At university there are only the people that have to be there ;)
Feb 09 21:59:52 <Heinervdm> all others aren't interested in comming
Feb 09 21:59:59 <leviathan> :)
Feb 09 22:00:15 <Serdar> I guess I ask on the mailing list :)
Feb 09 22:00:27 <leviathan> in ethz there are even people on sunday
Feb 09 22:01:07 <leviathan> Heinervdm: then youre universities arent enough motivating :P
Feb 09 22:01:39 <Heinervdm> leviathan: there are too many talks and all of them are very specific
Feb 09 22:01:58 <leviathan> oh, you mean while fosdem?
Feb 09 22:02:12 <Heinervdm> no at university
Feb 09 22:02:19 <Serdar> Heinervdm, I am not afraid of doing speeches, I guess I am good at it, but not in english :>
Feb 09 22:02:31 <Serdar> my english is bad :>
Feb 09 22:02:59 <Heinervdm> I don't think my english is good, but i thought i can't be wrong to try :)
Feb 09 22:03:19 <Heinervdm> and i don't think that i'm a great talker
Feb 09 22:04:12 <Serdar> that was the only talk I heard from you.
Feb 09 22:04:48 <Heinervdm> But i think that the only way of getting better, is doing it
Feb 09 22:05:01 <Serdar> learning by doing.
Feb 09 22:05:23 <Serdar> but it will not help if nobody says you what you did wrong.
Feb 09 22:06:18 <Serdar> should I tell it here, or query? :Y
Feb 09 22:06:19 <Serdar> :>
Feb 09 22:06:50 <Heinervdm> i think i found enough errors by my self, and i can't solve everything at once. So first solving the things i know and after that everything else should be fine
Feb 09 22:07:00 <Heinervdm> Tell here
Feb 09 22:07:04 <Serdar> okay
Feb 09 22:07:35 <Serdar> first do a empty presentation or to a friend/family etc.
Feb 09 22:07:51 <Serdar> second doing this will let you rememeber the pages
Feb 09 22:08:19 <Serdar> third remembering pages will help you to be able to look to the audience, most of the time you were looking to your slides
Feb 09 22:08:48 <Serdar> fourth speak loud and clear, this was a small room, but I hope to get a bigger one for next FOSDEM.
Feb 09 22:09:55 <Serdar> fifth use some gestures, maybe move around that will help to get away your nervousity, maybe take a pointer in your hand and don't look more than few second to one, or you will get nervous.
Feb 09 22:11:19 <Serdar> six don't speak to the slides, short looking is okay but like I said at third, staring and speaking to it will make people not hear you
Feb 09 22:11:25 <Serdar> I guess that's it
Feb 09 22:12:09 <Serdar> mickeyl, query?
Feb 09 22:12:16 <Heinervdm> three isn't easy for, i'm always trying :)
Feb 09 22:12:32 <mickeyl> Serdar: yo, waht's up?
Feb 09 22:12:44 <Serdar> yeah, that's why you should try 1
Feb 09 22:12:48 <larsc> Heinervdm: and make yourself notes if you aren't that fluent in the languages you are talking in. sometimes it seemed as if you wanted to say something but didn't knew howto
Feb 09 22:12:56 <Heinervdm> but i'm sure next one will be better
Feb 09 22:12:56 <Serdar> mickeyl, about FSOSHRCON
Feb 09 22:13:18 <mickeyl> ya, read your suggestion about LPI
Feb 09 22:13:23 <Serdar> not that
Feb 09 22:13:27 <mickeyl> ah, ok
Feb 09 22:13:57 <Serdar> I am not really involved to shr, maybe I never will be, because I don't like illume and its looks, but I can help organizeing
Feb 09 22:14:07 <Heinervdm> larsc: yes, that was a problem, i tried at home several times, but there i used other words :)
Feb 09 22:14:14 <Serdar> I found out, that I am really good at it.
Feb 09 22:14:21 <Serdar> I mean it works.
Feb 09 22:14:33 <Serdar> and I am atm the nearest guy to essen right?
Feb 09 22:14:48 <mickeyl> where are you located again?
Feb 09 22:14:53 <Serdar> Duesseldorf
Feb 09 22:14:55 <mickeyl> right
Feb 09 22:15:00 <mickeyl> that should make you the nearest one, yepü
Feb 09 22:15:11 <Serdar> thought so.
Feb 09 22:15:31 <Serdar> and maybe I can ask Univativ for some sponsering
Feb 09 22:15:39 <mickeyl> awesome idea
Feb 09 22:16:01 <Serdar> they are not that big, so I guess it would be possible for some beer, snacks goodies etc.
Feb 09 22:16:17 <mickeyl> sure, every bit is helpful, especially organization
Feb 09 22:16:43 <Serdar> I mean Duesseldorf location if they can make some work to the Darmstadt and ask for more help it can be more than few stuff
Feb 09 22:17:49 <Serdar> if we can represent univativ and the way how it works, finding students for work etc. then it could be more. I can ask
Feb 09 22:17:57 <GNUtoo> leviathan, http://pastebin.com/d3cdaefdf
Feb 09 22:18:14 <GNUtoo> doesn't segfault anymore
Feb 09 22:18:19 <GNUtoo> I'll prepare a patch tomorrow
Feb 09 22:18:30 <GNUtoo> s/segfault/illegal instruction
Feb 09 22:18:50 <mickeyl> GNUtoo: found the problem in xorg-msm?
Feb 09 22:19:06 <Heinervdm> mickeyl: tried mkbootimg?
Feb 09 22:19:24 <mickeyl> Heinervdm: let me do that now
Feb 09 22:19:29 <mickeyl> where do i have the adp1...
Feb 09 22:19:31 <GNUtoo> mickeyl, it was easy...neon
Feb 09 22:19:33 * mickeyl starts searching
Feb 09 22:19:34 <Heinervdm> :)
Feb 09 22:19:45 <Serdar> I will ask the next days
Feb 09 22:19:45 <mickeyl> GNUtoo: well, good work in analysis!
Feb 09 22:19:53 <mickeyl> Serdar: cool, keep us posted
Feb 09 22:20:04 <GNUtoo> basically I fired the debugger too rapidely
Feb 09 22:20:18 <Serdar> mickeyl, in exchange I want a LPIC exam :>
Feb 09 22:20:26 <Serdar> :D
Feb 09 22:20:54 <Serdar> summer is nice, I have time to learn :>
Feb 09 22:20:54 <mickeyl> heh
Feb 09 22:21:04 * mickeyl afraid of summer
Feb 09 22:21:09 <mickeyl> many non-FOSS projects :/
Feb 09 22:21:22 <Serdar> I really want it, because it's something I can show.
Feb 09 22:21:29 <GNUtoo> I'll go to sleep
Feb 09 22:21:50 <Serdar> mickeyl, you will get money for that? Need money too :/
Feb 09 22:22:00 <mickeyl> g'night GNUtoo 
Feb 09 22:22:01 <Heinervdm> gn8
Feb 09 22:22:14 <Serdar> I am doing too many things, mostly social ones which are not paid :/
Feb 09 22:22:16 <GNUtoo> thanks
Feb 09 22:22:30 <Serdar> this thirstday for example Altweiber...
Feb 09 22:23:30 <Serdar> from 0900 am-0300 am helping idiots to feel better from their alcohol orgy...
Feb 09 22:25:17 <Serdar> I say you guys, if I see one of you there in our tents I will not help you :O
Feb 09 22:27:09 <leviathan> hmm
Feb 09 22:27:14 <Heinervdm> Sent fix for #821
Feb 09 22:29:54 <mickeyl> Heinervdm: ok, it boots fine
Feb 09 22:30:04 <mickeyl> what shall we do next?
Feb 09 22:30:07 <mickeyl> evening mirko
Feb 09 22:30:13 <vegyraupe> hey mickeyl
Feb 09 22:30:40 <Heinervdm> mickeyl: check the licence text
Feb 09 22:31:15 <Heinervdm> i understood it that way that one has to ship the licence text with that lib
Feb 09 22:31:30 <Heinervdm> mkbootimg it self has an apache licence
Feb 09 22:31:59 <max_posedon> mickeyl, I found mdbus2 interactive mode awesome
Feb 09 22:32:14 <mickeyl> max_posedon: thanks, took me the whole part of the trainride from FOSDEM to Frankfurt :)
Feb 09 22:32:16 <max_posedon> but I face ERROR:main.c:1001:introspection_startElement: code should not be reached
Feb 09 22:32:33 <max_posedon> sometimes, when playing on destkop with it
Feb 09 22:32:42 <mickeyl> max_posedon: ya, it lacks some error checks, especially for non well-behaved dbus services
Feb 09 22:32:51 <max_posedon> ah, ok.
Feb 09 22:33:07 <mickeyl> i'll work on that permitting time
Feb 09 22:33:36 <mickeyl> Heinervdm: correct, we need to ship a COPYING file with the binary
Feb 09 22:33:37 <max_posedon> and now I updated all fso2 stuff to master state, so trying to retest fsousaged issue once more
Feb 09 22:33:43 <mickeyl> max_posedon: cool
Feb 09 22:33:59 <Heinervdm> mickeyl: but i don't know how to do that with autotools
Feb 09 22:34:27 <Heinervdm> and i think we should rename that COPYING to COPYING.lib
Feb 09 22:34:30 <mickeyl> Heinervdm: that's simple, just a data install
Feb 09 22:34:45 <Heinervdm> and add another COPYING for the apache one
Feb 09 22:34:46 <mickeyl> i don't have a COPYING file
Feb 09 22:35:07 <mickeyl> k
Feb 09 22:35:18 <mickeyl> check any of the fso2 programs 
Feb 09 22:35:27 <Heinervdm> never used apache, so i don't know it terms
Feb 09 22:35:27 <mickeyl> i.e. data or conf installs things into datadir
Feb 09 22:35:38 <mickeyl> the apache license is very open
Feb 09 22:35:47 <mickeyl> more or less you don't need to do anything
Feb 09 22:36:07 <Heinervdm> ok
Feb 09 22:42:44 <Heinervdm>  /usr/share/doc/mincrypt should be ok?
Feb 09 22:45:10 <mickeyl> looks good
Feb 09 22:45:20 <max_posedon> mickeyl, its look like fsousaged installs 2 configs
Feb 09 22:45:48 <max_posedon> ah not
Feb 09 22:45:51 <mickeyl> yeah, one for 'default' and one for 'openmoko_gta'
Feb 09 22:45:55 <max_posedon> sorry, its my stupid ebuild
Feb 09 22:46:10 <max_posedon> 1 had one more in /etc/freesmartphone
Feb 09 22:46:23 <mickeyl> ah, that's only if you want to override it
Feb 09 22:47:13 <JaMa> mickeyl: does this look right for zhone to you? it fixes missing eina-0 headers for build for me http://jama.homelinux.org/org.openembedded.shr.images/0001-setup.py-use-pkgconfig-call-for-checking-eina-0-incl.patch
Feb 09 22:47:50 <mickeyl> hmm
Feb 09 22:47:58 <mickeyl> why is ecore not enough?
Feb 09 22:48:13 <mickeyl> ecore should link against eina as well, no?
Feb 09 22:48:26 <JaMa> mickeyl: both functions are from python-ecore.. Ecore_x.h is using Eina.h
Feb 09 22:48:33 <JaMa> mickeyl: which is not in /usr/include
Feb 09 22:48:39 <JaMa> but /usr/include/eina-0
Feb 09 22:48:47 <mickeyl> ah, it's about the include flags, not the ldflags
Feb 09 22:48:55 <mickeyl> ok then, looks good
Feb 09 22:49:00 <max_posedon> fsogsmd manuall start (when fsousaged running) 2010-02-09T22:45:50.104956Z [ERROR] DBusServiceResource <GSM>: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus). Can't register resource with fsousaged, enabling unconditionally                                                                                                                                               
Feb 09 22:49:00 <max_posedon> 2010-02-09T22:45:50.122438Z [DEBUG] DBusServiceResource <GSM>: Enabling GSM resource...
Feb 09 22:49:07 <JaMa> can you push it to zhone.git?
Feb 09 22:49:26 <max_posedon> mickeyl, thats was workaround for make fsogsmd works at least once?
Feb 09 22:49:42 <JaMa> I would bump git rev with that and remove few unneeded python-e* deps there..
Feb 09 22:49:49 <mickeyl> JaMa: you don't have access to git.fso ?
Feb 09 22:49:54 <JaMa> no
Feb 09 22:50:11 <mickeyl> JaMa: oh. you can have, if you want
Feb 09 22:50:17 <mickeyl> max_posedon: prevent fsousaged from being started
Feb 09 22:50:30 <mickeyl> max_posedon: at least that was what helped on your system
Feb 09 22:50:34 <mickeyl> on mine it's not necessary
Feb 09 22:50:49 <JaMa> mickeyl: thanks.. but I think it's not necessary..
Feb 09 22:51:04 <mickeyl> ok, i'll push it then
Feb 09 22:51:18 <max_posedon> I think its smth strange here now
Feb 09 22:51:27 <max_posedon> fsogsmd start kills fsousaged
Feb 09 22:51:28 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03Martin.Jansa 07zhone * r2638381cf581 10/setup.py: setup.py: use pkgconfig call for checking eina-0 include headers (as used in python-ecore)
Feb 09 22:53:00 <Heinervdm> mickeyl: changed it to install the licence and removed headers from installed files, because i don't think they will be used by any other programm
Feb 09 22:53:20 <Heinervdm> mickeyl: http://heinervdm.dyndns.info/shr-git/mkbootimg.tar.gz
Feb 09 22:53:54 <Heinervdm> so we can host it somewhere and then intgrate it in oe
Feb 09 22:54:58 <playya> mickeyl, should i use the defaultLogger for the glib logger?
Feb 09 22:55:14 <leviathan> mickeyl: did you find the way to disable neon?
Feb 09 22:55:27 <leviathan> gnutoo didnt tell me before he left
Feb 09 22:56:01 <playya> leviathan, the gloating point unit?
Feb 09 22:56:09 <leviathan> floating
Feb 09 22:56:11 <leviathan> yes
Feb 09 22:56:41 <mickeyl> playya: use FsoFramework.theLogger until you need for specific loggers
Feb 09 22:56:52 <playya> ok
Feb 09 22:56:56 <mickeyl> i.e. if you have more complex things that need different logging domains
Feb 09 22:57:20 <mickeyl> leviathan: 
Feb 09 22:57:21 <mickeyl> <GNUtoo> leviathan, http://pastebin.com/d3cdaefdf
Feb 09 22:57:21 <mickeyl> <GNUtoo> doesn't segfault anymore
Feb 09 22:57:22 <mickeyl> <GNUtoo> I'll prepare a patch tomorrow
Feb 09 22:57:22 <mickeyl> <GNUtoo> s/segfault/illegal instruction
Feb 09 22:57:26 <playya> afaik you have to pass explicit arguments to gcc to enable neo
Feb 09 22:57:32 <Heinervdm> why does this patch doesn't show up in patchwork? http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-devel/2010-February/002123.html
Feb 09 23:02:21 <max_posedon> mickeyl, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/175962/
Feb 09 23:02:54 <max_posedon> fsousaged core dump backtrace
Feb 09 23:03:41 <mickeyl> someone sending a null string
Feb 09 23:03:54 <mickeyl> libfsoresource current?
Feb 09 23:04:03 <max_posedon> #9  0x40a0a9d0 in usage_resource_new (name=0x24b20 "GSM", busname=0x24eb0 ":1.15", objectpath=0x21fc0 "/org/freesmartphone/Resource/GSM") at resource.c:312
Feb 09 23:04:13 <max_posedon> there no any NULL I think
Feb 09 23:04:18 <max_posedon> I think yes
Feb 09 23:04:37 <max_posedon> if its wasn't updated today - then should be yes
Feb 09 23:06:01 <leviathan> mickeyl: good, then I'll wait until tomorrow
Feb 09 23:06:11 <leviathan> for getting able to debug graphics
Feb 09 23:06:12 <leviathan> ...
Feb 09 23:06:20 <max_posedon> mickeyl, c97f4a4c83e77cb9a65099009ddeaeba49714852
Feb 09 23:06:43 <max_posedon> so, its latest
Feb 09 23:10:01 <max_posedon> mickeyl, so, this is another issue which face only I?
Feb 09 23:10:34 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * r8358b8df838e 10/libmsmcomm/src/context.c: libmsmcomm: fix logic inversion in msmcomm_new
Feb 09 23:12:07 <mickeyl> hmm :/
Feb 09 23:12:13 <mickeyl> apparantly not
Feb 09 23:12:23 <mickeyl> something broke
Feb 09 23:14:52 <max_posedon> only significant diff - vala-0.7.10
Feb 09 23:15:17 <CIA-47> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07msmcomm * r39c9008f5d80 10/msmvterm/src/ (main.vala terminal.vala): msmvterm: create context and open transport
Feb 09 23:15:22 <mickeyl> yeah
Feb 09 23:15:27 <mickeyl> might be a vala regression
Feb 09 23:15:29 <mickeyl> or something we broke
Feb 09 23:23:05 <max_posedon> mickeyl, another issue
Feb 09 23:23:07 <max_posedon> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/175979/
Feb 09 23:23:18 <max_posedon> such fsodeviced start here just kills neo(
Feb 09 23:23:33 <max_posedon> its stopped ping, but screen shows its not suspended
Feb 09 23:28:23 <playya> good night
Feb 09 23:28:54 <max_posedon> ah, log give more info
Feb 09 23:29:04 <max_posedon> fsodeviced bad games with usb host
Feb 09 23:29:56 <max_posedon> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/175983/
Feb 09 23:35:17 <max_posedon> fsodeviced configure: kernel26_rfkill : no ; player_canberra : no ; player_gstreamer : no
Feb 09 23:35:39 <max_posedon> mickeyl, kernel26_rfkill required for gta02, yes?
Feb 09 23:36:11 <mickeyl> from .32 upwards
Feb 09 23:36:35 * mickeyl found the breakage in Vala
Feb 09 23:37:57 <max_posedon> shr uses :  --enable-kernel26-rfkill --enable-player-canberra
Feb 09 23:38:13 <mickeyl> forget canberra on Openmoko devices
Feb 09 23:38:38 <max_posedon> ok, will use gstreamer player, but what is rfkill
Feb 09 23:38:45 <max_posedon> (if I use 2.6.29)
Feb 09 23:39:18 <mickeyl> i advise alsa player
Feb 09 23:39:27 <mickeyl> unless you use != wav
Feb 09 23:39:44 <mickeyl> rfkill takes care about bluetooth and wifi power control
Feb 09 23:39:48 <mickeyl> only on .32++ though
Feb 09 23:40:03 <max_posedon> lets say I want nice linux-way for testing purpose now
Feb 09 23:40:10 <max_posedon> ah, ok.
Feb 09 23:40:14 <larsc> it will work with the .29 kernels also
Feb 09 23:40:37 <max_posedon> but latest question why fsodeviced do smth with usbhost mode, and how to disable it
Feb 09 23:41:56 <mickeyl> why usbhost?
Feb 09 23:42:09 <mickeyl> ah
Feb 09 23:42:22 <max_posedon> fsodevice do smth bad on usb during start for me
Feb 09 23:42:23 <mickeyl> when fsousaged is not present, all resources will be enabled
Feb 09 23:42:44 <max_posedon> with usbhost its killing ssh
Feb 09 23:42:49 <mickeyl> correct
Feb 09 23:43:09 <max_posedon> could it be changed in config? and I think it shouldn't be so by default
Feb 09 23:43:28 <mickeyl> i think it's good to enable resources if resource control is not found
Feb 09 23:43:33 <mickeyl> otherwise you have a hard time enabling them
Feb 09 23:43:40 <max_posedon> but not this one
Feb 09 23:43:49 <mickeyl> yes, this is somewhat special
Feb 09 23:44:15 <mickeyl> i'd rather add a switch to disable usb host control altogehter
Feb 09 23:44:46 <max_posedon> but can I do smth for now? or just wait for vala fix?
Feb 09 23:45:01 <max_posedon> I said you that you will hate me :) ...
Feb 09 23:45:16 <mickeyl> can't do anything about the vala problem, just reverting
Feb 09 23:46:41 <mickeyl> 7887af51df148bdde3d50181932a432b1c982d1d is the problem
Feb 09 23:47:59 <mickeyl> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609475
Feb 09 23:48:14 <Serdar> mickeyl, when do you plan to set the date?
Feb 09 23:49:09 <Serdar> could it be set in next weeks or do you need more?
Feb 09 23:49:17 <Serdar> (time)
Feb 09 23:49:21 <mickeyl> not too soon, first i need to hear back from all the important people, then we need to check with LinuxHotel etc.
Feb 09 23:49:36 <mickeyl> i hope it's clear by end of march
Feb 09 23:49:42 <Serdar> hm
Feb 09 23:50:22 <Serdar> I can take the checking part, but it's only possible if we have a 
Feb 09 23:50:41 <Serdar> s/a/some dates to ask.
Feb 09 23:51:33 <mickeyl> yes, we need to find some good weekend, perhaps some with a public holidy on fr. or mo.
Feb 09 23:52:29 <Serdar> 15.02.2010 (Mo.)	 :>
Feb 09 23:53:06 <Serdar> G 24.05.2010 (Mo.)	Pfingstmontag
Feb 09 23:53:35 <Serdar> 01.11.2010 (Mo.)	Allerheiligen that's next
Feb 09 23:54:09 <Serdar> but if it's from 21-25 you need to plan now, because it's pretty near.
Feb 09 23:54:24 <Serdar> if you plan 01.11 we got plenty of time
Feb 09 23:54:45 <mickeyl> that's too late
Feb 09 23:54:49 <mickeyl> much too late
Feb 09 23:54:56 <Serdar> there are some holidays on thirstday
Feb 09 23:54:57 <mickeyl> time is somewhat running out for FSO
Feb 09 23:55:04 <mickeyl> we need to show something in Summer
Feb 09 23:55:20 <Serdar> 03.06.2010 (Do.)	Fronleichnam
Feb 09 23:55:28 <mickeyl> that could be something
Feb 09 23:55:56 <Serdar> or 13.05.2010 (Do.)	Christi Himmelfahrt
Feb 09 23:56:11 <Serdar> I would suggest 02.06
Feb 09 23:56:15 <Serdar> 03
Feb 09 23:56:48 <Serdar> 17.11.2010 (Mi.)	Buß- und Bettag <-- wtf? never heard of it...
Feb 09 23:57:09 <Serdar> how's next monday :>
Feb 09 23:57:18 <Serdar> okay I will not have time because of red cross.
Feb 09 23:58:43 <Serdar> I have two alternatives for you:
Feb 09 23:58:44 <mickeyl> buß und bettag has been cancelled 
Feb 09 23:59:00 <mickeyl> max_posedon: if you build vala w/ reverting said patch fsousaged works again
Feb 09 23:59:42 <Serdar> 21-24.05 24.05 is Pfingstmontag
Feb 10 00:00:49 <Serdar> 04-07.06 where 03.06 is Fronleichnam
Feb 10 00:00:55 <max_posedon> nice, but I think its too late, can I expect some vala bump from you tomorrow may be?
Feb 10 00:01:11 <max_posedon> some 0.7.10.1
Feb 10 00:01:39 <Serdar> I write that on mailing list.
Feb 10 00:01:50 <mickeyl> max_posedon: yes, i'll cut a release
Feb 10 00:02:06 <max_posedon> ok, so it will be easier for me. thanks
Feb 10 00:02:16 <mickeyl> np
Feb 10 00:02:31 <Serdar> mickeyl, there is only 1.5 week difference
Feb 10 00:03:19 <mickeyl> yep
Feb 10 00:03:22 <Serdar> maybe Pfingsmontag is better.
Feb 10 00:03:26 <Serdar> +t
Feb 10 00:03:42 <Serdar> because of monday
Feb 10 00:03:51 <Serdar> I will look for holidays, wait
Feb 10 00:05:23 <Serdar> okay Ostern is in april
Feb 10 00:09:50 * mickeyl -> bed
Feb 10 00:09:52 <mickeyl> g'night
Feb 10 00:13:58 <perry81> cxv
Feb 10 00:23:56 <Serdar> good night.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 10 02:59:58 2010