**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 18 02:59:57 2010 May 18 04:52:16 mickey|zzZZzz: wow, that was quick, thank you May 18 05:52:07 it's good to see pam in shr ... that's what the build process shows May 18 05:59:30 saw vala just getting configured so FSO2 is going to be there ... hate to learn new languages but mickey says it's faster than python so I have to live with this :) May 18 06:02:00 dah libpam failed! May 18 06:04:22 yesterday, my e segfaulted (reproducible) when I tried to select matchbox-keyboard as keyboard... May 18 06:05:41 spaetz: great, I'll try an update tomorrow morning :) May 18 06:06:25 JaMa: guess you already built it :P May 18 06:06:30 morning :) May 18 06:08:50 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rb3da63ce13c0 10/fsoinitd/src/ (4 files): fsoinitd: let the actionqueue return a status so the init process can stopped on error May 18 06:08:50 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r891059ada8d5 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git.freesmartphone.org/cornucopia May 18 06:08:53 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r29c13ccad439 10/fsousaged/ (8 files in 6 dirs): fsousaged: add lowlevel plugin for the palm pre machine May 18 06:14:19 mrmoku: fso or kernel? May 18 06:14:24 mrmoku: and yes, both :) May 18 06:14:43 :) May 18 06:15:35 JaMa: still wsod though May 18 06:21:18 mrmoku: hmm, that's bad, no idea why I don't see it May 18 06:21:32 hmm | staging.c:(.devinit.text+0x175c): undefined reference to `s3c_adc_register' May 18 06:23:31 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rec9de5033d6d 10/fsoinitd/src/actionqueue.vala: fsoinitd: add missing return statement in ActionQueue.run() May 18 06:26:06 staging? May 18 06:30:42 seen? larsc started 2.6.34 :-) May 18 06:31:11 this error is from 2.6.34 :) May 18 06:32:05 JaMa: one of the patches causing it or plain 2.6.34 does not build? May 18 06:32:47 heh May 18 06:32:47 | kiss_fft_s16.c:299: internal compiler error: in default_secondary_reload, at targhooks.c:660 May 18 06:33:01 (gst-plugins-base) May 18 06:35:11 mrmoku: now I have only patch for wm8753-fix-build-with-gcc-4.4.2 and updated defconfig May 18 06:35:26 tmzt: btw, what's new in ofono land? Is it already used anywhere? And what is there plans wrt PIM? May 18 06:35:39 mrmoku: but if you didn't see larsc's announcement, we have to rethink our calibration May 18 06:35:44 tmzt: are there any reasonable UIs for it already? May 18 06:36:09 it looks like ubuntu is working with it, they had a session during UDS-M May 18 06:36:17 but they are using telepathy as a wrapper May 18 06:36:54 tmzt: so it means nothing really functional or worth looking at currently? May 18 06:37:13 essentially PIM is something that goes over it, ofono isn't even supporting sim contacts as anything but import May 18 06:37:41 tmzt: so if i e.g. buy a netbook with integrated gsm module or, say, connect a usb dongle, my best bet would be to use it with FSO, right? May 18 06:37:51 as a phone? May 18 06:38:24 I guess it depends on what you want to do, both ofono and fso have connman plugins May 18 06:39:00 ubuntu/redhat also has another daemon that's just for mobile broadband and doesn't have the voice features May 18 06:40:03 tmzt: e.g. i want gprs/3g and text messaging, voice calls would be a plus. May 18 06:41:03 doesn't appear sms is supported by the ubuntu/redhat daemon so ofono or fso would be a better choice May 18 06:42:32 tmzt: or imagine i have a decent mobile target for porting and want full phone functionality on it. It looks like despite all the effort and fuss etc, ofono is still very lacking comparing to FSO. May 18 06:43:19 ofono doesn't attempt to be a complete stack May 18 06:44:23 but it fits into a set of daemons, connmgr, audmgr, and possibly telepathy May 18 06:45:07 tmzt: doesn't look like it's anywhere near "ready", right? May 18 06:45:25 for gprs or sms? May 18 06:45:37 as a complete phone stack, no, it doesn't appear so May 18 06:47:47 tmzt: what are they plan to use for resource (like FSO resources) management? May 18 06:48:12 you'll have to ask them May 18 06:48:21 tmzt: ok May 18 06:48:31 they do have power settings though May 18 06:48:47 but ofonod doesn't seem to be a full solution for resource managment on a device May 18 06:49:05 I just mean that I've been somewhat out of it with a work project for the last few months May 18 06:57:17 tmzt: i see. Just for a moment i thought it's possible to see ofono actually used for telephony on some device really soon. Looks like FSO has better chances :) May 18 06:57:32 I get "pam_prelude.c:13:32: error: libprelude/prelude.h: No such file or directory" and "pam_prelude.c:14:36: error: libprelude/prelude-log.h: No such file or directory" and "pam_prelude.c:15:44: error: libprelude/idmef-message-print.h: No such file or directory" foolowed by a long list of missing this and that ... May 18 06:57:53 howto fix this with OE build environment? May 18 06:59:54 PaulFertser: you can certainly make dbus calls to initiate voice, data, sms, etc. with ofono May 18 07:00:04 it's just serving the same purpose as the entire fso stack May 18 07:00:11 just isn't May 18 07:00:46 tmzt: yes, but what's already there doesn't seem enough to implement a real working solution right now (which is certainly possible with FSO). May 18 07:01:11 then I don't understand your question May 18 07:02:06 :( May 18 07:02:50 tmzt: i think my question was more like a general inquiry about ofono's (and related techonlogies) readiness for practical usage. May 18 07:03:07 as a full ui/phone stack? May 18 07:03:07 shaz123: looks like you need libprelude first May 18 07:03:14 that doesn't seem to be it's purpose May 18 07:03:24 ofono is closer to fsogsmd rather than fso May 18 07:04:08 tmzt: i understand, but fsogsmd has supporting infrastructure around it (and will soon have an sms-pushing plugin system) while ofono's infrastructure is very much in flux and not really ready it seems. May 18 07:04:49 I guess meego will eventually be that May 18 07:05:07 ofono, like fso/phoneui, has an API that other programs can consume May 18 07:05:59 tmzt: i understand that May 18 07:06:06 tmzt: thanks for the clarifications May 18 07:07:42 PaulFertser: all I do is make image ... how should I make libprelude before libpam? is multiple threads for OE build causing it? May 18 07:07:56 tmzt: in fact i asked my question more from a UI designer point of view. It looks like if you are building a telephony UI, ofono+all other projects you mentioned is not something you can easily target (because there's nothing integrated yet). May 18 07:08:06 shaz123: bitbake libprelude first... May 18 07:08:17 k May 18 07:09:13 well, no, ofono+audmgr+telepathy could be the basis for the system behind such a UI May 18 07:09:20 it's just a component of a whole system May 18 07:09:51 shaz123: if you look inside the makefile, you'll see "make image" is just a thin wrapper around bitbake invocations (OE developers use bitbake directly usually) May 18 07:10:17 tmzt: "could be" is not the same as "ready" May 18 07:10:53 right, so I'm not understand what you mean by UI May 18 07:11:05 if you were developing a UI for fso what would it replace? May 18 07:12:08 PaulFertser: I think some environment variables are needed to set before "bitbake libprelude" May 18 07:12:14 tmzt: i developed a UI for fso and now i have telephony and messages on device without any of SHR apps/libs. Just fso2+fso. May 18 07:12:18 shaz123: of course May 18 07:12:27 is any script available May 18 07:12:29 shaz123: . ./env-setup or something like that May 18 07:12:37 shaz123: tried reading "Building SHR"? ;) May 18 07:12:37 thanx May 18 07:12:43 . setup-env May 18 07:13:03 ya May 18 07:13:25 tmzt: with opimd used for call listing, messages and contacts. May 18 07:13:27 ah May 18 07:14:18 PaulFertser and JaMa: found it in the making changes section ... similar to what u guys stated. May 18 07:14:36 what toolkit? May 18 07:14:36 tmzt: i mean i "just" installed fso on device, configured it a little, and wrote a UI. Looks like it would not be possible without major integration work for ofono. May 18 07:14:45 tmzt: Emacs May 18 07:15:10 okay May 18 07:15:23 I understand May 18 07:15:58 I was trying to understand how telepathy and eds-dbus might serve as pim May 18 07:16:18 tmzt: so i was walking today and thinking about how easily it would be to "port" it to another API. So i wanted to take a look at ofono+related technologies. But seems they're not ready enough for that. May 18 07:17:03 JaMa: gst-plugins-base fails building for me May 18 07:17:25 pimd is integrated with fso? May 18 07:17:28 | /home/mok/shrbuild/shr-unstable/tmp/cross/armv4t/lib/gcc/arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/4.4.4/../../../../arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: warning: libc.so, needed by /home/mok/shrbuild/shr-unstable/tmp/cross/armv4t/lib/gcc/arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/4.4.4/../../../../arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/lib/libgcc_s.so.1, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link) May 18 07:17:55 I cleaned and rebuilt gcc eglibc and eglibc-initial May 18 07:18:01 did not help May 18 07:18:24 or there's just an event used for the calllog? May 18 07:18:58 PaulFertser: ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'libprelude' ... I am trying "prelude" now. Is there any way we can search through a dependency tree and find different sorts of information. May 18 07:19:19 ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'prelude' May 18 07:19:38 tmzt: opimd is integrated in the sense it currently listens for signals from fsogsmd and manages call listing and message storage accordingly (including message receipts). May 18 07:19:48 right, okay May 18 07:20:11 shaz123: do you need libprelude at all? Why are you compiling pam with it? May 18 07:20:33 I just did "make image" :) May 18 07:20:58 tmzt: but soon fsogsmd will get message plugins subsystems that will allow fsogsmd to "push" incoming messages somewhere, for improved reliability. May 18 07:21:33 how is that different than listening for a dbus message? May 18 07:21:44 PaulFertser: How do we remove this dependency ... is there any OE doc that can explain such tips? May 18 07:21:57 do we need to remove it in the first place? May 18 07:22:57 mrmoku: hmm I have it: bitbake@jama ~/build.dev.shr.gta $ ls -lah ../tmpdir-dev-shr/cross/armv4t/arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/lib/libgcc_s.so.1 May 18 07:23:00 -rw-r--r-- 1 bitbake bitbake 166K May 16 23:30 ../tmpdir-dev-shr/cross/armv4t/arm-oe-linux-gnueabi/lib/libgcc_s.so.1 May 18 07:23:21 mrmoku: did you clean all gcc*4.4.4*bb, right? May 18 07:23:36 tmzt: if opimd is not running for whatever reason, it just "misses" the signal and the message is gone forever. If fsogsmd pushes the message, it can register an error and store the message temporarily somewhere. May 18 07:23:45 shaz123: there's bitbake manual May 18 07:23:52 hmm May 18 07:24:03 shaz123: and recipies are in fact very intuitive May 18 07:24:16 shaz123: just as configure_do and compile_do logs May 18 07:24:17 u mean OE is a wrapper over bitbake? May 18 07:24:20 I see, but why would opimd not be runnign but fsogsmd is/ May 18 07:24:45 tmzt: different processes... Who knows, opimd might crash or lock up or whatever. May 18 07:25:16 PaulFertser: didn't mickey say, that they are stored in file based cache? ie forever? but maybe I remember wrong.. May 18 07:25:28 shaz123: OE is the whole system + repository + everything else. It uses bitbake for doing actual job of building. May 18 07:25:45 JaMa: i think sim messages are May 18 07:25:54 JaMa: but i do not remember details as well. May 18 07:26:17 * JaMa greping logs May 18 07:26:47 mrmoku: 2.6.34 built :) May 18 07:27:28 JaMa: no, just -c clean gcc May 18 07:27:36 mrmoku: ahh, that's bad.. May 18 07:27:42 JaMa: and, does it work? ;) May 18 07:27:52 JaMa: still didn't find time to try 2.6.32... May 18 07:27:57 sure it does, but haven't tried it yet :) May 18 07:28:33 and without usb connection I'm not going to test mandatory xinput-calibrator again May 18 07:29:14 and for connect to wifi and openvpn start I need touchscreen working May 18 07:29:19 JaMa: ok, cleaning gcc gcc-cross and gcc-cross-initial eglibc and eglibc-initial now May 18 07:29:24 where are you writing to calibration to? May 18 07:29:47 mrmoku: isn't there also some intermediate? May 18 07:29:59 ohh.. May 18 07:30:00 yes May 18 07:30:02 :P May 18 07:30:03 mrmoku: for i in ../dev/recipes/gcc/*4.4.4*.bb ../dev/recipes/eglibc/*2.11*; do echo $i; bitbake -c clean -b $i; done May 18 07:30:37 mrmoku: for i in openembedded/recipes/gcc/*4.4.4*.bb openembedded/recipes/eglibc/*2.11*; do echo $i; bitbake -c clean -b $i; done May 18 07:30:47 from shr buildhost with shr makefile layout :) May 18 07:31:55 tmzt: for .29, .31, .32 we were using kernel driver calibration prepared by Weiss, but as larsc announced filtering is not available in .34 so we have to use ie xinput-calibrator which was now only optional May 18 07:32:25 creating a startup .sh file? May 18 07:32:26 JaMa: thanks :) May 18 07:32:33 sourced by xinit? May 18 07:32:54 tmzt: yes that's where it is :) May 18 07:33:08 right, but I mean the actual calibration May 18 07:33:10 Xsession.d/89xTs* May 18 07:33:17 both are there May 18 07:33:19 once the calibration has completed May 18 07:33:22 okay May 18 07:33:55 but users complained that they messed their calibration on first run and then had always messed calibration after every reboot May 18 07:34:58 * mrmoku tries 2.6.34 meanwhile May 18 07:34:59 so I made it optional again and "calibration data" are created only when user start xinput_calibrator_once.sh manually and then used on every reboot from the same Xsession script (but only if there are calibration data already created by user) May 18 07:35:16 mrmoku: the one in my images dir? May 18 07:35:21 yep May 18 07:35:38 good luck :) May 18 07:35:47 :) May 18 07:36:34 mrmoku: moving ~/.e/e/appshadow helped a lot here.. May 18 07:36:49 mrmoku: >20 batery removal without major ext2 breakage May 18 07:37:16 JaMa: it booted :) May 18 07:37:38 and registered May 18 07:37:56 registered what? usb or even gsm? :) May 18 07:38:01 ohh... yes and touchscreen is borked :P May 18 07:38:07 JaMa: GSM May 18 07:38:12 nice May 18 07:38:13 (and usb works too) May 18 07:38:20 no sysfs changes :) May 18 07:39:08 hmm May 18 07:39:23 after running calibration touchscreen is upside down May 18 07:39:40 rotated by 180° May 18 07:39:40 running xinput_calibrator_once.sh? May 18 07:39:43 yep May 18 07:40:07 mrmoku: can you confirm that no sysfs node from 89xTsCalibration exists? May 18 07:40:35 JaMa: ? May 18 07:40:57 cat /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89xTs* May 18 07:41:11 and there are 3 sets of sysfs nodes (for .29, .31 and .32) May 18 07:41:53 yeah... not there May 18 07:42:04 root@om-gta02 ~ # ls /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-0/0-0073/s3c2410-ts/calibration May 18 07:42:07 ls: cannot access /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-0/0-0073/s3c2410-ts/calibration: No such file or directory May 18 07:44:31 root@om-gta02 ~ # ls /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-0/0-0073/ May 18 07:44:35 driver modalias pcf50633-backlight pcf50633-mbc pcf50633-regltr.10 pcf50633-regltr.4 pcf50633-regltr.7 pcf50633-rtc resume_reason May 18 07:44:38 dump_regs name pcf50633-gpio pcf50633-regltr.0 pcf50633-regltr.2 pcf50633-regltr.5 pcf50633-regltr.8 platform_battery subsystem May 18 07:44:41 hdq pcf50633-adc pcf50633-input pcf50633-regltr.1 pcf50633-regltr.3 pcf50633-regltr.6 pcf50633-regltr.9 power uevent May 18 07:45:50 mrmoku: they are provided by TS filtering options from kernel, which are not available as larsc said in announcement May 18 07:46:05 mrmoku: so it was just for confirmation and it was expected May 18 07:46:10 :) May 18 07:47:43 see defconfig chage http://gitorious.org/~jama/angstrom/jama-shr-experimental/commit/ffc01740822e1f6928f97506831cdebb905df028 May 18 07:48:53 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07utilities * r12fd53934d27 10/palmpre/modemctrl/ (11 files in 2 dirs): palmpre: add initial version of modemctrl May 18 07:54:58 mrmoku: btw if you switch kernel now, then the same calibration will be used with your 2nd kernel.. so be aware :) May 18 07:55:47 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07utilities * r86a331d6ba73 10/palmpre/modemctrl/Makefile.am: palmpre: modemctrl: add basedir switch to valac statement May 18 07:57:34 JaMa: I will do a complete reflash anyway when my local build finished May 18 07:58:17 * JaMa too May 18 08:04:54 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07utilities * r96c7c5d56704 10/palmpre/modemctrl/Makefile.am: palmpre: modemctrl: we don't need config.vapi May 18 08:28:16 hi May 18 08:28:59 some shr devs here? May 18 08:29:22 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rf7d480febb18 10/fsogsmd/ (5 files in 4 dirs): fsogsmd: add initial version of the lowlevel_palmpre plugin May 18 08:30:41 just ask... they will eventually re, if you're lucky :-P May 18 08:31:13 i made a patch for navit, could shr-u's navit be pushed to rev 3262? May 18 08:39:13 carcinoma: test build is autorev so always latest revision is available from my feed May 18 08:40:18 carcinoma: check thread http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-user/2010-May/005098.html May 18 08:45:52 very nice, 3262 already in your feed, thanks, i try it today on my freerunner May 18 08:46:32 JaMa: still no go with gst-plugins-base :/ May 18 08:47:00 can't i only take navit May 18 08:47:08 ? May 18 08:53:24 JaMa: Hi . hey I just saw that sms is fix by opkg update opkg upgrade. but For me it does not upgrade anything.. May 18 08:56:55 JaMa: nevermind I saw your response :p May 18 08:58:48 JaMa: where can I find the need packe? where is your repo? May 18 09:07:49 carcinoma: yes, please take only navit+its locales May 18 09:08:06 ok May 18 09:08:25 GarthPS-onwin: I'll push it soon, so just wait a bit May 18 09:09:08 GarthPS-onwin: in my shr-e repo is more experimental stuff and it's not so easy to cherry-pick only cornucopia upgrades May 18 09:38:08 JaMa: http://pastie.org/965202 May 18 09:50:13 JaMa: is that normal? : May 18 09:50:14 0002 mok@gonzales[pts/5]:~/shrbuild/shr-unstable/tmp/cross-> find . -name libc.so May 18 09:50:17 0002 mok@gonzales[pts/5]:~/shrbuild/shr-unstable/tmp/cross-> May 18 10:04:01 mickey|office: btw, are you still sure FSO should do suspend on its own? Why not just export 2 functions Suspend() and Resume() that will be called by the distro before and after the suspend? May 18 10:04:09 Heinervdm: ^ May 18 10:04:31 Heinervdm: whom can i ask to integrate pm-utils in SHR? ; May 18 10:04:43 Because even without modifying FSO it would still be a better way. May 18 10:05:07 Heinervdm: you just add another module to it that calls FSO to do actual suspend. May 18 10:05:29 PaulFertser: i can't find a OE recipe for it May 18 10:05:46 so we will have to make one first May 18 10:06:09 Heinervdm: well, those're sh scripts, should be easy. May 18 10:06:30 Heinervdm: as i do not run OE myself, i can't help you directly with that. May 18 10:06:49 Heinervdm: but i can assist in troubleshooting, reading/understanding the code, etc. May 18 10:07:11 PaulFertser: it's autotools so it shouldn't be a problem May 18 10:08:11 Heinervdm: of course. I'm surprised you do not use pm-utils yet, as it seems to be a sane solution to proper (allowing for user-supplied hooks) suspend method. May 18 10:09:53 mrmoku: there is no cross libc, but there should be libc.so.6 in sysroots (be aware that libc.so link is missing only libc.so is there) May 18 10:11:02 Heinervdm: btw, mickey|office's already implemented Resume() but Suspend unconditionally tries to put device to sleep using the raw "kernel" method, and Resume() unconditionally uses the supplied source and reason. May 18 10:12:02 If i was using e.g. uswsusp on my notebook and had FSO running on it, i wouldn't be exactly happy with the current semantics. May 18 10:12:48 Heinervdm: i guess if you integrate pm-utils properly in OE, mickey'll drop "echo mem > /sys/power/state" from suspend() or will make it optional, so everybody'll be happy. May 18 10:14:17 PaulFertser: i will try to build it now May 18 10:14:53 PaulFertser: resume is still working with yesterdays image, even after reboot. So perhaps the problem is fixed... May 18 10:15:00 the chvt problem May 18 10:16:02 Heinervdm: for now you can simply add a file to pm/module.d/fso with "#!/bin/sh do_suspend() { mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmatphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.Suspend } May 18 10:17:01 PaulFertser: what do you mean with "FSO should do suspend on its own"? FSO does not suspend on its own May 18 10:17:03 PaulFertser: FYI: 19:03 < mickeyl> SMS will be saved in fsogsmd message book 19:03 < mickeyl> right now forever 19:04 < mickeyl> or until you yank the cache May 18 10:17:20 mickey|office: it does "echo mem > /sys/power/state" itself May 18 10:18:43 Heinervdm: and also /etc/pm/config.d/ should have a file with SLEEP_MODULE="fso" May 18 10:22:11 JaMa: ok. let me know.thx May 18 10:23:27 PaulFertser: ah, that you mean with suspending on its own. Well, it's already outfactored in an own plugin May 18 10:23:39 i don't see any value in adding another indirection here May 18 10:25:41 mickey|office: OS integration. Do you want to write a separate plugin for every suspend method out there? May 18 10:25:50 pretty much, yes May 18 10:25:51 mickey|office: for tuxonice, suspend2, etc? May 18 10:26:00 mickey|office: why not let pm-utils do the work? May 18 10:26:18 I'm not feeling well to delegate such a critical function to yet another binary May 18 10:26:47 mickey|office: every other distro does that, what makes FSO middleware so special? ;) May 18 10:27:14 mickey|office: also you're not ready to handle all the numerous quirks for different laptops/kernel modules etc etc, are you? May 18 10:29:12 mickey|office: i mean why do you want to care about suspend/resume at all? You just provide hooks to be called on suspend and on resume and let distro integrator care, seems like a reasonable way to me. May 18 10:29:14 ok, feel free to write a plugin that delegates the lowlevel suspend to pmutils May 18 10:29:30 some folks can use the builtin then May 18 10:29:31 mickey|office: it's not about delegation suspend itself, it's about not doing any suspend. May 18 10:29:35 and some can use the delegated May 18 10:29:49 err? May 18 10:31:28 mickey|office: a user calls "pm-suspend", it scans it's /etc/pm/sleep.d directory, runs scripts in it with "suspend" as the parameter, then uses whatever the lowlevel suspend method is available on this particular machine. May 18 10:32:43 Then on resume pm-utils run all the same scripts with "resume" as a parameter. May 18 10:34:06 :/ May 18 10:34:18 i must confess i don't like that May 18 10:35:05 mickey|office: why not? It is the way current distros handle suspend/resume, and it seems logical and flexible enough. May 18 10:35:19 it is the way desktops work, yes May 18 10:35:26 i don't think it's suitable for smartphones May 18 10:35:28 too slow May 18 10:35:33 to many indirections May 18 10:35:40 too many potential sources of failure May 18 10:35:51 mickey|office: you do want to provide the users with suspend/resume hooks, do not you? May 18 10:36:31 mickey|office: i mean the scheme FSO currently implements doesn't allow me to restart wifi or something like that. May 18 10:37:47 mickey|office: you could probably extend the api with SuspendResources() and ResumeResources() which will be suitable for calling in pm-utils hooks. May 18 10:50:42 JaMa: hmm... I have that libc.so May 18 10:51:24 PaulFertser: what would you use suspend/resume hooks for?` May 18 10:51:39 JaMa: to be sure it is something with my buildhost... gst-plugins-base r9.1 builds for you? May 18 10:53:25 mickey|office: i would call them prior to suspend and after the resume (so it suspends/resume all FSO resources). And will do actual low-level machine-specific suspend the way i want to. Do you consider running FSO on a laptop/netbook at all? There using pm-utils would be the most natural way i guess. May 18 10:53:49 mrmoku: yes gst-plugins-base-0.10.28-r9.1.do_rm_work May 18 10:54:21 mrmoku: rebuilt frm scratch may 12 and gcc/eglibc cleaned about 3 days ago May 18 10:54:36 PaulFertser: no, i mean _what_ do you want to achieve? May 18 10:54:55 with suspend/resume hooks May 18 10:56:04 if it's just using pm-utils for suspend/resume, then a suspend plugin for pm-utils might make more sense May 18 10:56:10 JaMa: shit :/ May 18 10:58:58 mickey|office: i can't see any reason to do it that way, it seems backwards to me. There're many GUI widgets/whatever configured to use pm-utils to suspend. The do not call fso, they call pm-utils. So FSO should be hookable itself in this common for most systems framework. May 18 10:59:38 mickey|office: if it wasn't like that, nobody'd have written fso-apm and apm2. May 18 11:00:32 Of course, you can implement quasi "pm-suspend" as well, but imho there should be an option left to do it the OS-supported way. May 18 11:02:07 Probably a minimal vala implementation of pm-suspend (that'll check if there're any user-supplied hooks, then call FSO to suspend resources, then directly use lowlevel plugins written for fsodeviced to suspend) would be nice and fast and controllable. May 18 11:06:56 the only reason i wrote fso-apm was a convenience for CLI May 18 11:07:17 since apm -s is in the memory of people May 18 11:08:35 btw, in fso-amp there is no apm --monitor May 18 11:10:08 right May 18 11:10:13 it's not designed to be a drop-in-replacement May 18 11:10:16 but just to show apm and apm -s May 18 11:10:34 ok May 18 11:10:35 rather than having people to use mdbus2 with those large commandlines May 18 11:11:45 ok better indeed May 18 11:12:18 basically it would have annoyed a lot command-line people to know how to suspend within the GUI but not the command-line May 18 11:13:17 * GNUtoo|oeee will have to use mdbus -s -l May 18 11:13:28 * JaMa ordered mini USB keyboard for his FR May 18 11:13:36 finally.. May 18 11:13:44 * GNUtoo|oeee had one but it broke May 18 11:13:52 which one? May 18 11:14:00 was not mini-usb but was tiny as an eeepc keyboard May 18 11:14:03 http://www.keysonic.de/pages/keyboards/ACK_3400_U/ack_3400_u_uk.html May 18 11:14:08 yes a keysonic May 18 11:14:51 JaMa: do you probably have any comments about suspend/resume? May 18 11:15:32 PaulFertser: about implementation or the issue we have now with chvt? May 18 11:15:46 I've strange issues May 18 11:15:46 JaMa: about the implementation, OS integration etc May 18 11:15:59 it suspended well some time and not well some other time May 18 11:16:18 htcdream tough May 18 11:16:58 maybe I should try to remove the kill of the refresh thread May 18 11:17:15 it does some garbag on the screen for short moments May 18 11:17:35 PaulFertser: well I partially share your concerns and feel it's a bit NIH syndrome, but as long as mickey has time and is willing to support/maintain/develop it I'm fine with it May 18 11:19:17 JaMa: but do you want a possibility for a user to supply suspend/resume hooks on SHR? May 18 11:19:52 PaulFertser: we can (probably) replace it with pm-utils scripts later without too much pain, but right now fso is the central part of whatever is happening on my neo, so no big surprise that also suspend/resume May 18 11:21:00 PaulFertser: yes, that would be nice, but what I badly tried to explain in previous sentence, I don't see many user applications in need for those custom hooks May 18 11:21:02 JaMa: because you have no hooks you can't enable chvt workaround ;) May 18 11:21:58 I wasn't able to reproduce that issue at all.. May 18 11:23:44 I think there should at least be some possibility to hook FSO into a normal OS-supported process without too much pain. I think at least debian users will agree with me May 18 11:23:51 and because it's a bit of mystery to me, I would like to see the patch fixing it, just to see why I wasn't able to reproduce it May 18 11:24:38 and sometime I've event permanant garbage on the screen May 18 11:25:20 GNUtoo|oeee: something like gray background with color dots? May 18 11:26:56 sometimes yes May 18 11:27:55 but sometimes the image is just shifted May 18 11:28:03 grey thing May 18 11:28:06 color dot no May 18 11:30:02 ah yes I've the color May 18 11:30:06 if I look well May 18 11:30:19 black,white,color May 18 11:30:30 JaMa, what's that? May 18 11:36:24 GNUtoo: no idea what's that or where it is from, but I've seen it too lately May 18 11:36:39 ah ok May 18 11:36:46 on om-gta02? May 18 11:37:26 GNUtoo: as well as keyb with letter from illume keyboard zoomed strangely in middle of screen, size like 1/8 of screen May 18 11:37:32 GNUtoo: yes om-gta02 May 18 11:38:25 ok May 18 11:43:36 GarthPS: opkg upgrade ready May 18 11:49:23 [debian, fso2] When the phone wakes up from suspend, quite often it suspends again May 18 11:50:20 I think it happens when it's woken up with power button and USB power May 18 12:39:51 JaMa: thx! juste need to find someone to send me an sms :) because it worked when I wrote me sms.. May 18 12:40:33 JaMa: is sms fix already in feeds? May 18 12:40:46 GarthPS: from france ? i can send it May 18 12:42:58 misc: yep 06 03 63 04 33. thx!!! eu wait.. with an other phone than the FR? other wise it will be not relevant. May 18 12:43:18 GarthPS: with a nokia May 18 12:43:39 misc: eu misc de openmoko-fr? May 18 12:43:43 :) May 18 12:43:46 GarthPS: yup May 18 12:43:57 misc: ah ok :p May 18 12:44:07 misc: ok ca me va tres bien alors :) May 18 12:44:13 misc: merci!! May 18 12:44:21 enfin je te dirais quand je l'aurais recu May 18 12:44:26 et tu est chez qui? May 18 12:44:29 es May 18 12:44:31 GarthPS: sfr May 18 12:44:48 GarthPS: forfait illimité pour l'envoi de sms, donc n'hésite si tu veux un autre test May 18 12:44:50 misc: ah moi aussi, je ne sais pas si ca change qqch. recu! May 18 12:45:00 misc: cool! merci :p May 18 12:54:15 * dos1 could understand "merci", "sms", "ok" and "test", nothing more :P May 18 12:55:01 dos1: we are just sending test sms to validate something May 18 12:55:17 ( and sfr being the mobile operator we are both subscribed too ) May 18 12:55:41 misc: well, that i understood from text in english before that :D May 18 12:55:52 mhh oh, yes :/ May 18 12:57:07 JaMa, mickey|office: I changed ticket http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/562 to "fix" , oups.. and "closed"..I did not wanted that.Is it ok or do I let it as opened.? May 18 12:59:57 misc: thx for that day without bred ;) dos1 try to understand this one :p May 18 13:00:48 misc: what is the last string you receive from me? me was "jour sans pain" May 18 13:01:17 was it "ftgtttt" ? May 18 13:01:29 GarthPS: something along blablalbahhhh....gttt May 18 13:01:43 GarthPS: jeÅ›li chcesz, to mogÄ™ pisać po polsku, zobaczymy co wtedy zrozumiesz... ;) May 18 13:02:11 * misc only know insults in polish :( May 18 13:04:38 dos1:Polski, proste! Rozumiem :p thx google translate May 18 13:04:58 dos1:I though you where tchek May 18 13:05:01 were May 18 13:05:41 dos1: it's funny how knowning russian and a bit of ukranian allows me to understand some polish :) May 18 13:05:57 PaulFertser: hehe ;) May 18 13:20:05 GarthPS: that's ok, thanks May 18 13:20:42 mickey|office: thx to you! ;) May 18 13:57:50 dos1: yup May 18 14:17:29 mickey|office: I asked a firend to send me an sms from an onther country and it does not work... it wakes up the FR but nothing else happens.. and apart this 2010-05-18T14:13:16.704263Z [INFO] TiCalypsoModem <4C>: Modem Status changed to FSO_GSM_MODEM_STATUS_RESUMING May 18 14:17:29 2010-05-18T14:13:16.739215Z [INFO] TiCalypsoModem <4C>: Modem Status changed to FSO_GSM_MODEM_STATUS_ALIVE_REGISTERED May 18 14:17:29 2010-05-18T14:13:16.740635Z [INFO] DBusServiceDevice <>: Modem resumed successfully May 18 14:17:29 I have nothing in fsogsmd.log May 18 14:19:25 :) May 18 14:54:26 mickey|office: I have restarted my phon and now it works from an other country. but I don't anderstand why i did not work the first time and had no logs.. May 18 15:21:12 Has anybody tried openvpn over GPRS? May 18 15:25:09 i tried over edge, and 3g May 18 15:26:53 misc: that is, not on the FR :) May 18 15:27:23 misc, how well did it work over edge? May 18 15:30:03 McKael: well, it was on the train, and that's quite painful when moving, but when you don't move, that's not bad, a little bit long to establish May 18 15:33:57 McKael: I tried the other day... failed to connect :/ May 18 15:34:04 did not investigate further though May 18 15:35:11 do_fetch of linux-openmoko-shr-devel always hangs for me (tried several times today) :-/ May 18 15:35:16 what does it do? git clone? May 18 15:35:21 yup May 18 15:35:33 probably it does not hang but takes endlessly long :P May 18 15:35:42 oh, much better, thanks :) May 18 15:37:45 JaMa|Sports: I thought we disabled GPS in fsotdld... looks like we did not :/ May 18 15:38:22 in log.do_fetch I see only: Initialized empty Git repository in /mnt/data/SHR/downloads/git/git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git/.git/ May 18 15:38:29 sigh May 18 15:45:10 zub: netstat? May 18 15:45:28 good idea, let me see May 18 15:46:18 tcp 0 0 dent:39463 git.openmoko.org:git ESTABLISHED May 18 15:47:40 but no data seems to be flowing May 18 15:49:56 I was thinking I'd run the command by hand (tmp/...blah/linux-openmoko-blah/run.do_fetch), but the file si empty May 18 15:50:15 anyway it might be the best try the checkout directly by git to see what it is or is not doing, w/o OE May 18 16:34:56 mickey|office: hey, i just hit the CLCC bug again. May 18 16:35:51 mickey|office: i guess it might be some race inside calypso between gsm network message (about call termination) and the clcc request. May 18 16:38:13 do i see correctly? new kernel in shr-unstable? May 18 16:59:02 PaulFertser: fun :/ May 18 16:59:23 PaulFertser: we need a special call handler that uses the %CPI URCs rather than +CLCC May 18 17:20:36 mickey|office: I have this 2010-05-18T17:18:51.239961Z [INFO] libfsotransport <0710:1>: SRC: "D123;" -> [ "OK" ] but the gsm gadgets indicat that I have a carier but not the lockscreen May 18 17:21:01 2010-05-18T17:18:51.239961Z [INFO] libfsotransport <0710:1>: SRC: "D123;" -> [ "OK" ] May 18 17:21:01 2010-05-18T17:19:22.900180Z [INFO] libfsotransport <0710:1>: URC: [ "NO CARRIER" ] May 18 17:22:33 mickey|office: so the gsm is not reliable . May 18 17:22:43 mickey|office: what can i do to help you? May 18 17:24:52 hi... May 18 17:27:19 are you registrated? May 18 17:27:21 check May 18 17:27:33 org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.GetStatus() May 18 17:27:52 perhaps you lost registration during suspend May 18 17:27:58 bbl, going home May 18 17:29:50 I got some issues with some apps in shr with illume2 concerning usability May 18 17:30:05 what I am missing is a button to close a running up May 18 17:30:13 like IIwi e.g. May 18 17:30:22 once started I dont know how to stop it again May 18 17:30:30 except if it has for some miracle a button May 18 17:31:00 this also applys to tangogps May 18 17:33:24 wtf is this Iliwi? ;o May 18 17:33:44 its an app to connect to wifi May 18 17:34:02 but my problem concerns all pürpograms without a button to close them May 18 17:34:17 in illume standard I could close them when clicking on that top bar May 18 17:34:29 with the expanding menu there May 18 17:34:31 Artox: click on empty space on top shelf May 18 17:34:33 Artox: just use top shelf May 18 17:34:44 Artox: a bar with three button should popup May 18 17:34:47 and you should get < X > May 18 17:35:12 dos1: ;) May 18 17:35:12 Artox: if it doesn't, check if shr_elm_softkey is running May 18 17:35:20 mickey|zzZZzz: root@om-gta02 ~ # mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.GetStatus May 18 17:35:20 is hanging! I need to make a call so I need to reboot. i will try to recreat this bug later May 18 17:36:03 that top shelf clicking only worked for me with standard illume and now I chose illume2 May 18 17:36:15 and I can click forever on free space on top shelf May 18 17:36:18 Artox: we're talking about illume2 May 18 17:36:25 Artox: so check shr_elm_softkey May 18 17:36:42 Artox: on illume2 it works.. but not on buttons there May 18 17:37:27 Artox: if shr_elm_softkey is running then after clicking on white space on top shelf you should get that buttons.. May 18 17:38:07 ok shr_elm_softkey is running May 18 17:38:15 * dos1 upgraded after 11 days. let's check what is broken now :D May 18 17:38:24 hi mickey|zzZZzz May 18 17:38:24 and clicking white space nothing happens May 18 17:38:31 dos1: everything ^^ May 18 17:38:33 I am using the version from sunday May 18 17:38:37 or saturday not sure May 18 17:38:49 Artox: odd it worked for me when I used my fr some days ago May 18 17:38:49 prebuilt one on wiki May 18 17:41:00 I can only say that nothing happens when I click on white space on top shelf May 18 17:42:15 Artox: did you try to restart shr_elm_softkey? ;p May 18 17:43:23 no I didn't May 18 17:43:40 and the x server crashed again May 18 17:43:42 Artox: so try :P May 18 17:43:45 that has happened several times May 18 17:43:50 when suspending and resuming May 18 17:43:56 it stays on blinking cursor May 18 17:44:10 so restarting that daemon will have to work May 18 17:44:16 wait* May 18 17:46:45 GarthPS: did you update or in some other way restart phonefsod? May 18 17:49:05 mrmoku: this afternoon i did an upgrade and reboot (I set deep sleep at always.. perhaps it is that..) May 18 17:49:20 mrmoku: this afternoon i did an upgrade and reboot (I set deep sleep at always.. perhaps it is that..) May 18 17:59:26 GarthPS: sleep always probably could explain it, yes May 18 18:00:10 mrmoku: I will brb but after can I test itsomehow? May 18 18:00:26 GarthPS: dunno how to reliably test it... May 18 18:03:59 mrmoku: will see with the boss :) mickeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? :p May 18 18:38:44 ERROR: '/home/shaz/moko/shr-unstable/openembedded/recipes/pam/libpam_1.1.0.bb' failed May 18 18:39:27 checked: ~/moko/shr-unstable/openembedded/recipes/pam$ cat libpam_1.1.0.bb |grep prelude but it returned nothing so where am I going wrong May 18 18:41:52 shazkhan: what's in the log? May 18 19:03:41 Kensan: errors start with - pam_prelude.c:13:32: error: libprelude/prelude.h: No such file or directory | pam_prelude.c:14:36: error: libprelude/prelude-log.h: No such file or directory | pam_prelude.c:15:44: error: libprelude/idmef-message-print.h: No such file or directory May 18 19:04:33 and then this and that expected and undeclared .... shud I send a pastebin link? May 18 19:06:34 It seems libprelude was not built which is a dependency for pam_prelude May 18 19:07:28 but the libpam.bb does not have the dependency mentioned .... so is this the problem? May 18 19:08:22 shazkhan: how are you building your image? May 18 19:08:29 shazkhan: latest openembedded tree? May 18 19:08:43 2 days old May 18 19:09:24 make image May 18 19:10:16 also tried "bitbake libpam" May 18 19:10:39 hm I don't even know if prelude is present in oe May 18 19:10:41 and bitbake libprelude or prelude has no recipies May 18 19:10:50 shazkhan: maybe you have to disable it via some compilerflags May 18 19:11:07 disable libprelude? May 18 19:11:25 this will be done in the bb recipy? May 18 19:12:25 shazkhan: pam should have a compile option to disable prelude support May 18 19:13:15 shazkhan: but it seems odd that nobody else has hit this problem... May 18 19:14:05 Kensan: I am the only one who gets stuck with OE all the time! May 18 19:14:27 toolchain works perfect for me but I want to get things done with OE now May 18 19:15:06 Kensan: where do I set the compile option using OE system May 18 19:15:09 shazkhan: can you try --disable-prelude May 18 19:15:27 in the recipe? May 18 19:15:35 shazkhan: add it to the line EXTRA_OECONF += " May 18 19:15:44 k ... May 18 19:15:52 shazkhan: in libpam_1.1.0.bb May 18 19:16:20 shazkhan: it's a bit hackish but if it works there's an issue with prelude support being compiled eventhough the dependencies are not present. May 18 19:17:07 did not get it? May 18 19:17:23 how shud this be changed: EXTRA_OECONF += " --includedir=${includedir}/security" May 18 19:18:28 shazkhan: just append it May 18 19:18:54 shazkhan: or ask mickeyl ;) May 18 19:19:10 shazkhan: EXTRA_OECONF += " --includedir=${includedir}/security --disable-prelude" May 18 19:19:30 k ... let me check it May 18 19:25:08 Kensan: still the same ... do I need to refresh anything? May 18 19:25:59 before doing make image ... what about doing it with bitbake? May 18 19:26:11 I am trying it with bitbake .... May 18 19:26:19 shazkhan: bb -c clean libpam May 18 19:26:30 otherwise it won't reconfigure it May 18 19:26:35 k May 18 19:26:42 mrmoku: it's still disabled in my fresh image May 18 19:27:38 mrmoku: there was only one global config for all devices, I've added openmoko_gta one with right tty device and disabled gps and it's still there and used May 18 19:42:19 PaulFertser: cool, if this could be ported to a new ui (not gnome dependent) it could be a great basis for phone messaging/call alerting May 18 19:42:22 https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-empathy-indicator May 18 19:46:54 Kensan: libpam done .... now gtk needs cairo in the process of configure! May 18 19:47:17 mrmoku: swap axis in xinput call for fixed calibration with .34 for mine it looks like: May 18 19:47:20 SHR root@gojama ~ $ xinput set-int-prop "Touchscreen" "Evdev Axis Calibration" 32 107 918 911 98 May 18 19:47:21 Should I remove it? May 18 19:47:23 SHR root@gojama ~ $ xinput set-int-prop "Touchscreen" "Evdev Axes Swap" 8 1 May 18 19:47:51 I think cairo is related to crypto and I need it .... for my experiments. May 18 19:48:21 shazkhan: related to crypto? May 18 19:48:26 shazkhan: it's graphics May 18 19:49:23 bitbake cairo is in process ... and it's dependencies are being handled ... I hope it works. May 18 19:50:03 lindi-: but I remember that my trusted software stack needed it ... I am almost sure about that. May 18 19:50:30 JaMa: ahh, ok I checked cornucopia git and the one in default... and had the impression GPS started to work after commenting out GPS in there... coincidance then :) May 18 19:51:17 mrmoku: yes that was the workarround, but I didn't want to disable it globally so I added openmoko_gta specific config May 18 19:51:32 ok May 18 19:51:44 JaMa: will try that xinput thing later May 18 19:51:48 shazkhan: ok good May 18 19:51:53 * mrmoku has to do some daywork :/ May 18 19:52:00 shazkhan: cairo is a gtk lib May 18 19:52:01 mrmoku: 2.6.34 is now built in shr-kms too May 18 19:52:29 shazkhan: what are your goals? May 18 19:52:43 shazkhan: It's good that somebody starts working on security stuff. May 18 19:53:12 hardcore security for clients ... access control models etc :) May 18 19:58:05 basically I am handling trustworthy computing solutions for a research project called dynamic remote attestation for mobile platforms. OpenMoko is our target platform. I have done tits bits with the toolchain and now want to get everything together. May 18 20:00:08 shazkhan: can you give a simple usecase? May 18 20:04:27 I want my client to enforce a policy and use a particular set of trusted software components ... policy is MAC and some others and I verify this remotely and prefereably without privacy issues. May 18 20:05:54 shazkhan: what do you use as trust anchor? May 18 20:06:28 shazkhan: microsd smartcard? May 18 20:07:03 tpm emulator and trustzone but working on others as well May 18 20:08:52 hrmf. May 18 20:09:12 <[Rui]> shazkhan: treacherous platform module? I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole... May 18 20:09:13 that 2.6.34 uImage panics with "cannot mount rootfs". May 18 20:10:07 <[Rui]> shazkhan: not while *I* can't control the master keys. May 18 20:10:16 [Rui]: lols May 18 20:10:34 shazkhan: does trustzone have some kind of key management features? May 18 20:10:53 there is a good side and bad side of everything. Opensource and free software can make a difference May 18 20:11:48 Kensan: We do that with the emulator but trustzone gives us the secure world where this is done May 18 20:11:55 if you don't have *some* kind of hardware crypto involved I would not consider it "hardcore security" ;) May 18 20:12:15 let me give u a link ... May 18 20:12:21 shazkhan: ok, but trustzone is used to guarantee separation May 18 20:12:51 <[Rui]> shazkhan: of course, however the TPM is not under our control, and has master-keys, so your security is toast by design. May 18 20:12:52 shazkhan: I haven't really found any "good" technical papers about trustzone... just marketing stuff. May 18 20:13:13 increasing bootwait seems to have helped May 18 20:13:21 n900 has it and Meego platform is using it May 18 20:13:23 shazkhan: would very much be interested in good technical information. May 18 20:13:31 <[Rui]> shazkhan: I suggest supporting something like the Fellowship of FSFE crypto cards May 18 20:14:16 I'll analyze this [Rui] .. May 18 20:14:38 shazkhan: microsd smartcards could be interesting for you. May 18 20:14:40 <[Rui]> shazkhan: I'd love to see something like that, but depending on real HSMs, not the TPM :) May 18 20:14:59 ok :) I'll see into it. May 18 20:15:01 [Rui]: How do you trust your HSM? May 18 20:16:03 <[Rui]> Kensan: excluding bugs, you need to be in control of all the keys May 18 20:16:45 <[Rui]> for instance, you need to be able to put your own CA inside, as the ROOT one May 18 20:17:18 http://marc.info/?l=linux-security-module&m=127182686310401&w=2 ... how do Maemo/Meego do it with trustzone? May 18 20:17:22 <[Rui]> Kensan: but mainly, the TPM is not designed with *our* security in mind May 18 20:17:47 Have u gone through MTM? May 18 20:18:29 [Rui]: It's not that rigid ... May 18 20:18:53 <[Rui]> shazkhan: MTM is the nokia thing, right? nopes... May 18 20:18:58 even if u keep MTM aside May 18 20:19:17 <[Rui]> shazkhan: anyway, you know about http://tpm-emulator.berlios.de/ ? May 18 20:19:36 well they are the first ones to make an emulator for it but it is actually a mobile counterpart of tpm May 18 20:20:33 [Rui]: Have a look at this one ... it seems a bit heavy but very interesting .. http://sourceforge.net/projects/ibmswtpm/ May 18 20:22:00 <[Rui]> shazkhan: forgive me for being very wary of IBM software... :) my experience with them doesn't leave me relaxed anytime I see their name May 18 20:24:10 <[Rui]> shazkhan: ugh... they only make code dumps? no SCM? Yuck! That means no community! May 18 20:25:46 just relax .. don't know much about other projects but the one I deal with are considered trecherous at the moment but we are trying to twist it towards the right path May 18 20:26:39 <[Rui]> shazkhan: yeah, however you can't, the whole design is not intended for the right path :) better to let it die of non-usage May 18 20:27:38 I have studied the design! May 18 20:29:12 have u checked out property based attestation and sealing May 18 20:29:32 Do u know that the whole thing can be regulated May 18 20:31:53 Maybe u think in terms of a mass community platform but we are looking at solutions for enterprises, where the user in not the only owner of the platform May 18 20:33:30 <[Rui]> shazkhan: I see no difference. means the company is not in control (even worse than an user, from economical PoV) May 18 20:34:09 how can u say that the company is not in control May 18 20:35:07 please have a look at mobile phone reference architecture because I cannot disclose some of the research work in progress on our side May 18 20:35:32 TCG MPWG MPRA May 18 20:35:46 <[Rui]> shazkhan: I rather not go deep into the details of tools designed to facilitate DRM May 18 20:36:03 can u define DRM May 18 20:36:22 <[Rui]> shazkhan: Digital Restrictions Management May 18 20:36:43 it's not about music and movies ... it's about classified information like health care records May 18 20:36:50 digital rights management May 18 20:37:15 if I have a right then I have it and no one can take it away from me is what we want to accomplish May 18 20:37:34 <[Rui]> shazkhan: for that you don't need DRM (and really, if it means enforcing "rights" upon others, it's restrictions, not rights. May 18 20:38:20 if they can take it away then we already know that they can and we make a deal according to that in an open environment May 18 20:38:23 <[Rui]> shazkhan: for that you need only intelligent use of standard cryptography (eg, OpenPGP, X.509, etc...) May 18 20:39:03 yeah thats u do with tpm ... store ur keys May 18 20:39:20 <[Rui]> shazkhan: with the slight problem that they have master-keys you don't control :) May 18 20:39:24 shazkhan: at what uni are you doing your research? May 18 20:39:33 [Rui]: they? May 18 20:39:58 <[Rui]> Kayin: "it" if you'd rather May 18 20:40:18 （。々°） May 18 20:40:20 the other party ... operator, hospital, bank, etc May 18 20:40:54 <[Rui]> Kensan: I mean the TPM chips. May 18 20:41:55 http://imsciences.edu.pk/serg/ May 18 20:48:18 http://www.ictrdf.org.pk/fp-dbamp.htm May 18 20:52:18 hmf. who would I need to bribe to get some modifiers into illume-keyboard? May 18 20:52:23 would that be raster? May 18 20:52:41 [Rui]: by the way if smart card can have them why not tpm? May 18 20:53:00 tpm is a built-in smart card May 18 20:53:42 <[Rui]> shazkhan: made by a platform oriented towards being a necessary (for effectiveness) DRM counterpart, in which there are master-key holders. May 18 20:55:04 <[Rui]> smart cards designed that way wouldn't even fly (commercially) May 18 20:56:01 [Rui]: intelligent use of opengpg is very hard May 18 20:56:20 [Rui]: i don't want to expose my key to a machine where i read my email. it's very tricky to decrypt encrypted mail May 18 20:56:28 <[Rui]> lindi-: lol, OpenPGP :) GPG is a Free Software implementation ;) May 18 20:56:41 [Rui]: point still stands May 18 20:56:58 it's pretty difficult to use in a safe manner May 18 20:57:12 <[Rui]> lindi-: ? May 18 20:57:32 [Rui]: well i need to copy the email to usb stick and move it to offline computer May 18 20:57:49 Kensan: can u give me an idea which micro sd card based smart card is available to purchase easily? May 18 20:58:14 <[Rui]> lindi-: ok, you have your paranoia level at a notch higher than mine ;) May 18 20:58:26 [Rui]: well there are security bugs in web browsers all the time May 18 20:58:30 <[Rui]> It's not bad, I just couldn't handle it. I admire you for doing it :) May 18 20:58:39 [Rui]: and pdf readers, and image/video viewers May 18 20:59:21 [Rui]: and smartcards don't help much with this unfortunately May 18 21:00:05 <[Rui]> lindi-: they help in the sense that your key isn't exposed, you just send them encrypted data and your pin and they return you decrypted data May 18 21:00:24 [Rui]: yes but anybody who gets access to my account can decrypt everything i've ever received May 18 21:00:54 <[Rui]> lindi-: only if they know your secret and have your card May 18 21:00:58 [Rui]: It's same with tpm if you are a good designer of tss May 18 21:01:03 [Rui]: well it's trivial to snoop the pin May 18 21:01:26 [Rui]: since it'll be software running under the privileges of my normal account May 18 21:01:44 [Rui]: it can just stay in the background and wait for me to insert the card May 18 21:01:48 [Rui] who wons the tpm master key? May 18 21:01:49 <[Rui]> shazkhan: if the TPM was only a crypto card I wouldn't have any problem with it, but it sadly goes too much in other directions. May 18 21:01:56 owns May 18 21:02:05 like ... May 18 21:06:35 I am stuck with checking for "BASE_DEPENDENCIES... configure: error: Package requirements (glib-2.0 >= 2.23.6 atk >= 1.29.2 pango >= 1.20 cairo >= 1.6) were not met:" May 18 21:07:23 for package gtk+-2.20.0-r8.0: task do_configure: Failed May 18 21:12:11 :( May 18 21:12:23 shazkhan: I gather G&D are selling such cards May 18 21:12:44 can I google this? May 18 21:14:18 Kensan [Rui] lindi-: where and what do u do? May 18 21:14:58 shazkhan: give me asec May 18 21:15:34 shazkhan: http://www.gd-sfs.com/the-mobile-security-card/ May 18 21:15:41 shazkhan: I don't know where and if it is sold. May 18 21:15:54 shazkhan: I live in Switzerland and work for a IT security company May 18 21:17:46 <[Rui]> shazkhan: I live in Portugal and work for an IT company strongly dependant on security. May 18 21:18:51 so I have some gurus here to discuss issues with. nice to know :) May 18 21:20:12 <[Rui]> I'm not a guru, I try to follow on the steps of Gurus :) May 18 21:20:27 shazkhan: Guru is a big word... I don't like big words ;) May 18 21:20:43 actually I am too young :) May 18 21:26:06 Suis la :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 19 02:59:57 2010