**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 02:59:57 2011 Feb 11 07:32:01 moin Feb 11 07:33:35 mrmoku: hi :) Feb 11 08:11:25 JaMa: morning Feb 11 08:12:02 JaMa: is this the uboot with ext support? http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/nokia900/u-boot-nokia900.bin Feb 11 08:12:29 vanous: yes Feb 11 08:12:34 ok Feb 11 08:13:16 so basically i grab a kernel and add uboot to it via the python builder Feb 11 08:13:30 vanous: corresponds to http://wiki.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/N900Install#U-Boot Feb 11 08:16:14 well, this says what and how, but i am trying to figure out also why :)) Feb 11 08:16:52 why? Feb 11 08:17:05 well, not how to prepare it, but how things work Feb 11 08:17:21 i think mostis probably here Feb 11 08:17:21 https://elektranox.org/n900/kernel/uboot.html Feb 11 08:17:41 yes and the rest in OE patch where you can read stored env Feb 11 08:18:09 last night, i had to reflash kernel, as simple uboot-power install from repos borked the bootloader Feb 11 08:18:47 * JaMa is using latest powerkernel with own u-boot Feb 11 08:19:01 that is my plan Feb 11 08:19:05 like this one http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/nokia900/u-boot-nokia900-2010.06+gitr0+bd2313078114c4b44c4a5ce149af43bcb7fc8854-r68.bin.dos-like Feb 11 08:19:08 JaMa: do you boot maemo at all? Feb 11 08:19:25 chang is that maemo boots when slide closed, shr boots if slide is open Feb 11 08:19:51 vanous: I do and yesterday I've even installed angrybirds on it :) Feb 11 08:20:27 JaMa: ok, same here, i need working maemo for dayjob, but want to have 4 way boot - maemo/meego/shr/andr Feb 11 08:20:46 vanous: I can give you prepared kernel-power46+uboot if you fail somehow Feb 11 08:21:02 i would presume creating my own boot,scr should be enough Feb 11 08:21:09 JaMa: thank you Feb 11 08:21:16 vanous: but in the evening.. yesterday I rebooted my desktop at home and it didn't boot Feb 11 08:21:32 last night, i got a bit sweaty, before i fixed it all up :) Feb 11 08:22:07 JaMa: i have had occasional random reboots with power kernel (no overclocking) so i want to make sure the phone reboots OK by itself (into maemo)... Feb 11 08:22:11 pneumonia makes me sweaty lately even without fixing stuff :/ Feb 11 08:22:20 JaMa: you have it? Feb 11 08:22:23 the viral one? Feb 11 08:22:27 yes Feb 11 08:22:58 my son doesn't have pneumonia but almost that, and it's really not fun at all Feb 11 08:23:17 wednesday he got over the worst, after two weeks Feb 11 08:23:33 i mean when you are seven, it hurts differently i guess Feb 11 08:23:52 yup :/ Feb 11 08:24:13 I have last 2 pils today.. but still don't feel very well :/ Feb 11 08:24:48 JaMa: :( our next week skying got canceled due to this... Feb 11 08:25:12 i gue for pnm you need atb, right? Feb 11 08:25:21 *guess Feb 11 08:25:24 * JaMa still hopes to go skying next week Feb 11 08:25:36 JaMa: i wouldn't push it Feb 11 08:25:36 yup, I got something on monday Feb 11 08:26:10 Xorimax Feb 11 08:26:30 i can see it on Otakar, he was fairly OK yesterday , but then he almost collapsed, from exhaustion - not enough eating, too much healing body work.... Feb 11 08:27:31 JaMa: what is the advantage of u-boor over multiboot, bootmenu etc? Feb 11 08:27:40 *uboot Feb 11 08:27:58 we're leaving on Thursday morning, so I hope it will be ok then Feb 11 08:28:16 vanous: not overwritting kernel partition all the time Feb 11 08:28:20 ok Feb 11 08:28:23 i thought so Feb 11 08:28:31 but you have to compile the config every time? Feb 11 08:28:44 why? Feb 11 08:29:00 vanous: I think the one included is universal enough for most needs Feb 11 08:29:17 vanous: and if it doesn't suit 100% then you can replace it on the fly with that boot.scr Feb 11 08:30:02 JaMa: i have to say - i plugged in my uSD, installed nitdroid-install and was ready to go - tweaked the multiboot conf and that's it Feb 11 08:30:19 i would love to say shr-install in maemo repos, so we can attract more people Feb 11 08:30:32 you can install nitdroid to p2 and you're ready to go too Feb 11 08:30:45 or meego as I have Feb 11 08:31:18 if I stay @home long enough today I'll probably even update meego :) Feb 11 08:31:19 but this depends on how uboot is configured, you cannot really change it on the fly, can you? Feb 11 08:31:28 you can Feb 11 08:31:49 you can test booting it from cmdline Feb 11 08:31:56 and if it works then put it to boot.scr Feb 11 08:32:24 or install it with expected layout to uSD and stored env will work with meego/nitdroid too Feb 11 08:32:58 the enc, we are talking about boot.scr? Feb 11 08:32:58 only when new nokia CEO pushes win7.. then it will be useless :) Feb 11 08:33:04 *env Feb 11 08:33:25 JaMa: we have the hardware now, so this gives us a big chance Feb 11 08:33:30 env is stored in u-boot binary currently, but boot.scr is included too if found Feb 11 08:33:49 JaMa: can you have more boot.scr like files? Feb 11 08:34:01 so basicvally have something like .include support? Feb 11 08:34:37 vanous: check http://git.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/u-boot/u-boot-git/nokia900 Feb 11 08:34:57 <[Rui]> JaMa: shr-e-gadgets is safe to use at current HEAD should you want to upgrade, but the tasklist should be completed today Feb 11 08:35:01 vanous: yes you can have more, but stored env is looking only for /boot.scr on 1st uSD ext2 Feb 11 08:35:32 [Rui]: cannot ssh to home or buildhost today.. but I'll try it tonight if I don't forget Feb 11 08:35:52 vanous: or check http://gitorious.org/u-boot-shr/u-boot Feb 11 08:35:57 cool Feb 11 08:36:16 <[Rui]> JaMa: np, just to keep you up to date :) Feb 11 08:36:44 vanous: CONFIG_EXTRA_ENV_SETTINGS http://gitorious.org/u-boot-shr/u-boot/blobs/shr/include/configs/nokia_rx51.h Feb 11 08:38:45 config is probably good, but this is way too much hardcoded stuff, i will look at the boot.scr Feb 11 08:39:59 vanous: that's why I've tried to discuss it here and document it on wiki first, but it's also fastest to load&boot Feb 11 08:40:14 JaMa: ok. have you tried multibooting? Feb 11 08:40:23 ? Feb 11 08:40:47 i think uboot is s good way in long term run Feb 11 08:41:03 JaMa: multiboot Feb 11 08:41:13 Yes I had it before Feb 11 08:41:23 was it multiboot or bootmenu? Feb 11 08:41:30 I had both Feb 11 08:41:50 not at once of course, but didn't like neither of them Feb 11 08:42:05 i had bootmenu previously, before motherboard replacement Feb 11 08:42:26 last night i tried multiboot, but it sadi it doesn't have all the stuff to load to run shr Feb 11 08:42:46 vanous: hi there. I have a feeling i wanted to discuss some bluetooth stuff with you but no idea what exactly. Feb 11 08:42:48 with bootmenu I wasn't able to set root= properly and booting ie 3rd partition on uSD failed Feb 11 08:42:59 PaulFertser: on freerunner? Feb 11 08:43:04 I've got a feeling, a feeling deep inside, oh yeah. Feb 11 08:43:12 then with multiboot it worked somehow, but with u-boot it works even better Feb 11 08:43:19 PaulFertser: morning. perhaps my broken flexiblePCB? Feb 11 08:43:42 JaMa: yes, i uboot tooo Feb 11 08:43:59 but i would like to see shr installer in maemo repos for pleople to try shr Feb 11 08:44:01 vanous: probably, but then there's nothing to discuss, just my sympathy about you getting it broken. Feb 11 08:44:08 and multiboot is probably easiest for that... Feb 11 08:44:21 PaulFertser: i have a plan to spend a day and fix it Feb 11 08:44:34 but that day is not coming up yet :))) Feb 11 08:46:00 JaMa: is the r&d mode this required for shr on n900? Feb 11 08:46:26 and what is it's purpose? some hw watchdog elimination? Feb 11 08:47:26 I still have it enabled and mrmoku reported that watchdog still kicks in if you stay too long in u-boot cmdline Feb 11 08:48:10 then, after you reboot, you still loose time on the device? Feb 11 08:48:28 from SHR to maemo yes Feb 11 08:48:41 and I also have to remove battery sometimes (most of the time) Feb 11 08:48:55 I mean after halting SHR to boot maemo Feb 11 08:49:24 after meego too? Feb 11 08:49:42 time and battery? Feb 11 08:50:01 not sure.. haven't booted it for really long Feb 11 08:50:30 as there wasn't anything exciting last time I did :/ Feb 11 08:50:39 how's meego? i tried it emulated on my laptop and there wasn't much there to see Feb 11 08:50:51 oh, i see, ok Feb 11 09:09:34 JaMa: in shr, does n900 fully suspend? Feb 11 09:09:47 as it seems that in maemo not really... or? Feb 11 09:17:00 [Rui], moin. is it possible to shrink an inwin to the required space? Feb 11 09:17:41 <[Rui]> playya: hiya, yes, elm_object_style, minimal-vertical IIRC Feb 11 09:18:16 doh. minimal_horizontal looks wrong :P Feb 11 09:35:34 if one uses mplayer -vo fbdev -- what are the possibilities for controlling the playback? touchscreen or aux/power? Feb 11 09:36:27 lindi-: you can read touchscreen or keyboard from separate process and send events to mplayer Feb 11 09:36:45 radekp: fair enough, is somebody already doing this? Feb 11 09:36:51 lindi-: that's how i do it qmplayer Feb 11 09:36:55 radekp: aha Feb 11 09:37:05 that doesn't seem to be in debian :/ Feb 11 09:37:25 radekp: I'm finally getting decent playback speed with new libtheora Feb 11 09:37:28 <[Rui]> ok, the tasklist appears to be working, even though there's one nasty message on stderr Feb 11 09:37:44 radekp: great, what does it mean "decent playback" ? Feb 11 09:38:03 radekp: 320x240 @ 25 fps with < 1% dropped frames with ogg(theora/vorbis) Feb 11 09:38:37 lindi-: so it's not theoarm? Feb 11 09:38:58 radekp: libtheora merged it Feb 11 09:39:05 ahh cool Feb 11 09:39:44 do you have to compile it from sources or are there already debian packages? Feb 11 09:40:33 btw qmplayer is here: https://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/tree/master/src/3rdparty/applications/qmplayer Feb 11 09:40:43 radekp: expect stable release any day soon :) Feb 11 09:40:44 it works even with QT-X11 Feb 11 09:41:02 you can open it in qtcreator on pc or build with standard qmake Feb 11 09:41:32 radekp: see http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2011/02/msg00952.html Feb 11 09:43:20 ohh great Feb 11 09:45:27 radekp: how does the UI of qmplayer appear to the user? Feb 11 09:45:35 radekp: do they see the buttons and video at the same time? Feb 11 09:46:42 lindi-: the video plays on the upper part of the screen, buttons are on the bottom Feb 11 09:47:17 radekp: aha Feb 11 09:47:28 lindi-: and you can press fullscreen button - that will switch to 320x240 Feb 11 09:47:33 radekp: mplayer -vo fbdev happily works on the same virtual console? Feb 11 09:47:34 lindi-: and hide buttons Feb 11 09:47:42 lindi-: yes it does Feb 11 09:47:46 interesting, thanks Feb 11 09:48:09 np Feb 11 09:48:35 some sort of re-encoding service might be useful Feb 11 09:50:38 it can encode on the device with mencoder Feb 11 09:51:04 and qmplayer on PC can talk to qmplayer on Neo Feb 11 09:51:22 you can playe videos from PC and PC can also encode them for FR - all from gui Feb 11 09:52:01 i wish i had video, only found this one, but it's very old http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdxPjjtgHgc&feature=related Feb 11 10:13:07 radekp: encoding on the device is going to be slllow Feb 11 10:13:19 lindi-: it's not that bad Feb 11 10:13:40 lindi-: for youtube clips it's quite usable IIRC Feb 11 10:14:02 yeah but a PC could encode on the fly Feb 11 10:14:16 sure Feb 11 10:14:29 but sometimes you dont have PC Feb 11 10:14:46 so it's IMO nice to have also option to encode on device Feb 11 10:14:51 radekp: sure Feb 11 10:15:17 radekp: mencoder did not produce nice ogg containers, it really only likes AVI Feb 11 10:15:24 radekp: that's why I had to use mencoder + ffmpeg2theora Feb 11 10:18:43 lindi-: how about using pure ffmpeg? Feb 11 10:19:28 lindi-: they have added patch for rotating screen lately Feb 11 10:20:30 btw i am very disappointed by the situation with videos, it's real mess, with those milion formats and incopatibilites :( Feb 11 10:21:26 i though ffmpeg could solve it, but IIRC it cant render subtitles so it's not sufficient Feb 11 10:38:11 radekp: I don't think that patch is in debian yet though? Feb 11 10:38:41 lindi-: no idea, it was in the release like 3 months ago Feb 11 10:39:06 radekp: that could be an option then Feb 11 10:41:13 i think it's FFmpeg 0.6.1 Feb 11 10:46:54 mrmoku: GNUtoo|laptop ping Feb 11 10:47:07 mickey|bbl, pong Feb 11 10:50:16 mickey|office, I don't see you talking.... Feb 11 10:50:41 ah I ponged mickey|bbl instead of mickey|office Feb 11 10:52:54 i wonder whether we should issue a combined SHR/FSO "press release" based on the recent events Feb 11 10:53:18 mickey|office: you are planning to adopt windows phone 7 too? ;) Feb 11 10:53:29 exactly :D Feb 11 10:53:31 what events? Feb 11 10:54:25 events: nokia killing devices, driving meego to the "oh well, it's our side project for some of the veterans who still want to play", going in bed with microsoft, HP killing WebOS updates for older devices, etc. Feb 11 10:54:40 ah? Feb 11 10:54:50 * GNUtoo|laptop didn't follow the news recently Feb 11 10:54:55 i.e. pointing out that we continue delivering software for all kinds of devices, working on the only remaining true FOSS middleware and app suite Feb 11 10:54:59 something like that Feb 11 10:55:06 yes Feb 11 10:55:09 that's a good idea Feb 11 10:55:14 <[Rui]> hehe Feb 11 10:55:20 a very good idea Feb 11 10:55:36 but we have an issue Feb 11 10:55:47 "working on the only remaining true FOSS middleware and app suite" Feb 11 10:55:55 <[Rui]> That ex-Microsoft dude doesn't pour water on flames, but gasoline :) what an asshole http://is.gd/6rWTjC Feb 11 10:55:57 gllin is not FLOSS Feb 11 10:56:30 meego will be abandoned? Feb 11 10:57:05 well... according to nokia it's part of their "long term strategy exploring new approaches" Feb 11 10:57:06 *cough* Feb 11 10:57:09 how is n900 modem/audio support in meego? Feb 11 10:57:14 <[Rui]> that's corporate speak for abandoned :) Feb 11 10:57:22 [Rui]: that's what i thought as well Feb 11 10:57:44 <[Rui]> fscking petiononline.com seems broken Feb 11 10:57:58 vanous: no idea, i have to stick with maemo until someone finds out how to get modem forwarding done in SHR Feb 11 10:58:08 *sigh* Feb 11 10:58:08 i mean... there is android and meego, what is the advantage of fso/shr over those for those who have no clue? Feb 11 10:58:11 <[Rui]> I'm doing the little troublemaker part by making a petition for people pledging not to buy winphoney phones from Nokia, rather preferring a free software meego :) Feb 11 10:59:41 vanous: those who don't have a clue don't care, so: no advantage. those who care may find "community driven vs. a victim of strategic platform moves driven by marketing interests" being a good reason Feb 11 10:59:45 <[Rui]> <[Rui]> LOL #Nokia now down more than 10% -http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?... Feb 11 10:59:50 hehe Feb 11 10:59:55 <[Rui]> it was 8% an hour ago Feb 11 11:00:18 IOW, we don't abandon stuff just because we can't make any money with it Feb 11 11:00:25 we abandon stuff if noone wants to work with it Feb 11 11:00:30 (which is a much better reason IMO ;) Feb 11 11:00:53 since we don't make any money at all Feb 11 11:00:54 :D Feb 11 11:00:55 indeed Feb 11 11:01:19 we abandon stuff because no one develops with it Feb 11 11:01:31 *maintain it Feb 11 11:01:42 like om-gta01 Feb 11 11:01:51 if people test it Feb 11 11:02:01 we supports it Feb 11 11:04:01 replicant is also floss Feb 11 11:05:32 [Rui]: is he EX-microsoft at all? ;) Feb 11 11:07:06 hehe Feb 11 11:07:11 mickey|office: i think there is plenty of folks who would like to develop and don't really care much on what - as far as it's cool and it runs on their device. floss is a benefit, but in the mobile market, what options do you really have? Feb 11 11:07:45 but then people get educated and learn to appreciate some other values Feb 11 11:07:51 vanous: that's where we differ. we don't care about the mobile market. and we work for minds like that Feb 11 11:08:12 <[Rui]> JaMa: ex only as in employed, it seems Feb 11 11:08:51 and good news is that Microkia won't support QML for their winphones.. so those devs they found for symbian/meego platform get fscked while mounted R/W Feb 11 11:08:52 hmmm Feb 11 11:09:12 if nokia goes microsoft....where will we find devices? Feb 11 11:09:15 <[Rui]> git notifications down? Feb 11 11:09:23 GNUtoo|htcdream: HP Feb 11 11:09:26 <[Rui]> GNUtoo|htcdream: it won't Feb 11 11:09:43 <[Rui]> GNUtoo|htcdream: elop might get fired RSN Feb 11 11:09:59 elop? Feb 11 11:10:05 RSN? Feb 11 11:10:09 <[Rui]> the dude Feb 11 11:10:11 [Rui]: yes.. changed chair, but still paid by MS it looks Feb 11 11:10:15 <[Rui]> real soon now Feb 11 11:10:45 mickey|office: i think minds get also stimulated by success and opportunities. but with a PR like this morning, i think some people do loose hope, so shr/fso PR would be a good think Feb 11 11:11:05 vanous: that's what i was thinking. just catching the opportunity Feb 11 11:11:10 but Feb 11 11:11:22 and this is where my point is Feb 11 11:11:41 Alberto Torres, head of Meego left yesterday.. looks like he knew.. Feb 11 11:11:57 ouch Feb 11 11:12:10 what's the name of stskeeps Feb 11 11:12:12 * JaMa will reflash meego with nitdroid probably Feb 11 11:12:27 Carsten Munk Feb 11 11:12:47 nitdroid doesn't have sound in calls Feb 11 11:12:50 mickey|office: could it also be counterproductive as people would be looking for a distro for their mobile platform, that is somewhat usable and if PR runs out too early, they get discouraged? Feb 11 11:12:56 but the rest seem to work Feb 11 11:13:23 that's looks more usable then last few meego Images I've tried Feb 11 11:13:46 kernel wise....what do we do? Feb 11 11:13:57 that PR will attract users Feb 11 11:14:07 users will get a 2.6.35 Feb 11 11:14:22 that doesn't work well Feb 11 11:14:23 GNUtoo|laptop: i have tried nitdroid, it has many cool factors - installs easily, runs very well, app support Feb 11 11:14:38 vanous: only if we stir false hopes about the state of affairs. if it's crystal clear we are lightyears away on the UI and app level, and also lacking in middleware on some hardware platforms, then we might get a couple of folks that are actually able to help driving it forward. if not... nothing lost ��or as the press says... 'there is no bad PR' Feb 11 11:15:04 mickey|office: agree Feb 11 11:16:24 I tried it too Feb 11 11:16:42 but I've some other android devices Feb 11 11:16:51 that are supported by replicant Feb 11 11:20:52 what do wer do for the kernel? Feb 11 11:20:55 mickey|office: pr targeted to n900 community? Feb 11 11:20:57 of n900 Feb 11 11:21:22 basically DVFS doesn't work on recent ones Feb 11 11:21:35 including the dvfs branches Feb 11 11:22:13 if someone makes dvfs work.... Feb 11 11:22:24 vanous: not only, given the recent events wrt. a promised webos update, i think we should at least also address the webos folks Feb 11 11:22:57 we even got camera on 2.6.37 Feb 11 11:23:04 or could have Feb 11 11:23:20 GNUtoo|htcdream: nice. someone really needs to focus on audio now. we will have voice calls sooon Feb 11 11:30:14 now? Feb 11 11:30:29 without voicecalls how can we test it? Feb 11 11:31:56 mickey|office: hi, i'd have few questions if you dont mind... Feb 11 11:34:57 mickey|office: is it possible to use FSO for GPRS dialing and modem multiplexing and at the same time use modem from qtopia's phone stack? Feb 11 11:36:31 maybe we could associate some more stacks to the press release Feb 11 11:36:35 like qtmoko Feb 11 11:36:40 and replicant? Feb 11 11:37:10 GNUtoo|htcdream: sure, i like the idea Feb 11 11:37:40 radekp: in theory yes, in practice it might need work. both fsogsmd and qtopia's phone stack are competing over the resources. It might be possible to use FSO's singleline modem abstraction for that. Feb 11 11:39:09 fsoabyss could do the muxing, fso's singleline the ppp dialing, and qtopia the rest, if you can get qtopia to use the distinct mux nodes Feb 11 11:39:32 then again, this is crazy from the architecture POV Feb 11 11:39:41 you'd be better off settling on one middleware Feb 11 11:40:04 or an adapter, if you insist on qtmoko Feb 11 11:40:17 it should be possible to make the qtmoko dialer use fsogsmd Feb 11 11:40:36 yup, i am all for switching to FSO and dropping the old qtopia modem library, but i am not sure how to do it best Feb 11 11:41:18 you can either do the changes in the dialer, or write a qtopiacomm library that is just a shim over fsogsmd's dbus API Feb 11 11:41:35 both is a couple of weeks of work i guess Feb 11 11:41:53 i'd like to use also other parts of FSO like gsmd and device daemon - because these things could be handled much better this way Feb 11 11:42:13 *nod* Feb 11 11:42:24 that sounds like you really want to rip out the UI parts of qtmoko Feb 11 11:42:31 and base completely on the FSO middleware Feb 11 11:42:37 radekp: switching qtmoko over to fso would be even more interesting for the pr Feb 11 11:42:45 which means you have to write quite a significant amount of C++ dbus code :) Feb 11 11:42:49 but it'd be interesting Feb 11 11:43:06 mickey|office: iirc there is some tool that generates c++ code from dbus xml api Feb 11 11:43:20 yeah, qtdbus is not too shabby as well Feb 11 11:43:24 they're handling it quite nice Feb 11 11:43:53 i saw how it was generating bluez interface and was quite impressed Feb 11 11:45:03 vanous: yes, from my POV it makes no sence to maintain in c++ something that is working in FSO Feb 11 11:47:13 mickey|office: i think i will hack up some prototypes and see what will be best way Feb 11 11:47:24 cool, please keep us posted, sounds pretty interesting Feb 11 11:48:34 mickey|office: i will maybe start with simple dialer app (with FSO running and qtopia using dummy modem) Feb 11 11:48:56 and i can try to check how to make qtopiacomm use FSO Feb 11 11:49:48 right. Feb 11 11:50:04 for the sake of maintenance i have a slight tendency to change the UI apps directly Feb 11 11:50:08 and not inject a "fake middleware" Feb 11 11:50:17 yup, it's much cleaner Feb 11 11:50:37 and it might save you from hacking in qtopiacomm ;) Feb 11 11:52:14 it would be best to have the glue code as thin as possible - using only the autogenerated api would be cool Feb 11 11:53:56 yep Feb 11 11:54:43 doing this would bring qtmoko an entire new frontier of possible hardware Feb 11 11:54:53 everything that FSO supports Feb 11 11:57:56 i am quite excited, let's see how it will go :) Feb 11 11:58:13 right. crossing my fingers. holler, if you need any insider info about FSO :) Feb 11 11:58:56 oki, i hope i wont bother you with too many quiestions :) Feb 11 11:59:25 <[Rui]> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/meego/ Feb 11 11:59:31 mickey|office: pm Feb 11 12:01:09 ~bon appetit Feb 11 12:01:10 well, bon appetit is smacznego. Guten Appetit. Eet Smakelijk. God Appetitt. Buon Appetito. Buen apetito Bom Apetite. buen apetito Smaklig m�ltid!. Hyv�� ruokahalua. Bo Proveito Mahlzeit! Feb 11 12:20:30 radekp, indeed that would mean qtmoko on htcdream,palm-pre,nokia n900 etc... Feb 11 12:22:55 I just hope that doesn't mean qtmoko developers will focus on new half-working devices, and effectively abandon freerunner, as happened with SHR :-) Feb 11 12:23:25 was freerunner really abandoned? Feb 11 12:23:29 I don't think so Feb 11 12:23:36 I tried it yesterday and it worked Feb 11 12:24:44 neo1973 is not maintained....yes...kind of abandoned as nobody test it Feb 11 12:24:59 but freerunner is alive Feb 11 12:25:57 antrik: i am interested only in FR and GTA02 Feb 11 12:26:10 GNUtoo|laptop: well, right now Qtmoko is working better than SHR, that's for sure... Feb 11 12:26:28 yes, and that's not because of hardware support Feb 11 12:26:43 it's because everything change at the same moment in SHR Feb 11 12:26:53 that is to say: Feb 11 12:26:54 *FSO Feb 11 12:26:57 *illume Feb 11 12:26:58 *oe Feb 11 12:27:09 s/illime/illume+efl etc... Feb 11 12:27:18 you have too much changing stuff Feb 11 12:27:48 *vala Feb 11 12:27:50 is changing too Feb 11 12:30:23 GNUtoo|laptop: well, all the moving targets are certainly part of the reason for SHR's instability... Feb 11 12:30:56 I think there is an shr-testing Feb 11 12:31:02 but nobody bother testing it Feb 11 12:31:08 and nobody wants to use it Feb 11 12:32:31 actually, the reason nobody wants to use it is that there are too many known issues that don't get fixed... at least that's part of the reason I switched to qtmoko instead, which offers the kind of maturity one would expect from SHR testing... Feb 11 12:32:59 (the other reason being the regression regarding SIM phonebook support) Feb 11 12:33:16 ok Feb 11 12:33:45 qtmoko is based on debian right? Feb 11 12:33:55 how the package management works? Feb 11 12:34:32 I know you can't upgrade a distro Feb 11 12:34:35 or stuff like that Feb 11 12:34:51 but there is a GUI for the package manager Feb 11 12:34:59 but I've no idea on how it works under the hood Feb 11 12:35:05 is the package manager apt? Feb 11 12:35:13 is there only one package manager Feb 11 12:35:18 or are there 2 package manager? Feb 11 12:35:36 like apt for debian(that the user should not touch) Feb 11 12:35:50 and another package management for the application Feb 11 12:36:40 * GNUtoo|laptop would love to see a more standard qtmoko that base itself on FSO+OE Feb 11 12:37:33 GNUtoo|laptop: it's a bit weird... the base system is managed with dpkg/apt, but qtopia is not. also, the default install seems to use some modified Debian packages optimized for size, but it's possible to install normal packages from the standard Debian repos Feb 11 12:37:56 at least that's what I gathered so far... I'm certainly not the best person to explain this :-) Feb 11 12:37:56 ok Feb 11 12:38:22 if it based itself on oe....it wouldn't have theses issues Feb 11 12:39:43 actually, I'm rather sceptical about OE. I don't really see any benefits. standard Debian install is too huge to fit in internal NAND; but the stripped qtmoko packages are fine Feb 11 12:40:28 and to my surprise, there are no performance problems with apt/dpkg either Feb 11 12:41:06 for apt and dpkg it's ok Feb 11 12:41:16 but I wonder how manual is the stripping Feb 11 12:41:24 we have a very automatic stripping Feb 11 12:41:31 no idea Feb 11 12:41:48 basically with FILES_${PN}-foo Feb 11 12:42:04 you can split packages Feb 11 12:42:09 and there is a default setting Feb 11 12:42:13 that split all packages Feb 11 12:42:23 you can override or append to it Feb 11 12:51:53 lindi-: do you know how fresh are FSO packages in debian? Feb 11 13:38:58 GNUtoo|laptop: okey.. what should I say here? :) Feb 11 13:39:05 I'll talk to you Feb 11 13:39:20 just that I want to be eared publically Feb 11 13:39:26 here's the problem with SHR and wesnoth Feb 11 13:39:42 basically we build differently Feb 11 13:39:49 I've one temporary dir per machine Feb 11 13:40:04 GNUtoo|laptop: I do not use shr Feb 11 13:40:09 the have one temporary dir for all the machines Feb 11 13:40:13 zrafa, what do you use? Feb 11 13:40:50 gamerunner, which is based on Om2008.9-gta02-20081117.rootfs Feb 11 13:40:57 GNUtoo|laptop: gamerunner, which is based on Om2008.9-gta02-20081117.rootfs Feb 11 13:40:58 ah and they have wesnoth? Feb 11 13:41:16 I am adding wesnoth to gamerunner. I did it :) Feb 11 13:41:17 last time I tried there was no wesnoth Feb 11 13:41:19 ah ok Feb 11 13:41:25 I'll try then Feb 11 13:41:30 and tell you if it works Feb 11 13:41:35 mmh? Feb 11 13:41:44 what will you go to try? Feb 11 13:41:52 opkg install wensnoth on SHR Feb 11 13:41:55 and then Feb 11 13:42:17 westnoth -r 480x640 -w Feb 11 13:42:39 but both environments are different. Feb 11 13:42:58 at least you have a starting point Feb 11 13:43:06 the segfault you had were because of old boosts Feb 11 13:43:35 I would like to know some advices about which version to try. I have tried several wesnoth versions (1.4.3, 1.4.6, 1.4.7) cross compiled with openmoko toolchain. I also built libboost-iostreams and latest libsdl (and some versions before) Feb 11 13:43:50 I have not applied any patch to any source Feb 11 13:43:58 you don't need patches Feb 11 13:44:03 All of them are built using the original sources. Feb 11 13:44:13 Neither I touched the Makefiles or stuff.. All is clean Feb 11 13:44:21 but look at wesnoth recipes Feb 11 13:44:37 the last one still work on htcdream Feb 11 13:44:39 GNUtoo|laptop: I just say about patches so people know that I am not trying to build stuff modifying environment or things. Feb 11 13:45:01 GNUtoo|laptop: are you talking about OE? Feb 11 13:45:01 ok Feb 11 13:45:24 last wesnoth in oe is 1.8.4 Feb 11 13:45:25 (you said "wesnoth recipes") Feb 11 13:45:29 yes Feb 11 13:45:37 I'm talking about oe Feb 11 13:45:43 even if you don't use it Feb 11 13:45:48 it give you some infos Feb 11 13:45:56 for instance you need and want that: Feb 11 13:46:01 -DGUI=tiny Feb 11 13:46:25 Okey.. and you use 1.8.4 on your htc and it runs well? And for "runs well" I mean.. you have played some campaings Feb 11 13:46:34 and those did not break on the middle Feb 11 13:46:35 you also want that: -DENABLE_LOW_MEM=ON Feb 11 13:46:45