**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 18 02:59:57 2011
Feb 18 07:00:52 <mrmoku> GNUtoo|oeee: sure I'm subscribed... but used the wrong From for the mail
Feb 18 07:01:10 <mrmoku> GNUtoo|oeee: with the result I now sent it twice :P
Feb 18 08:38:43 <[Rui]> moin
Feb 18 08:42:26 <[Rui]> bye
Feb 18 10:08:12 <morphis> heyho
Feb 18 11:13:55 <DocScrutinizer> moo
Feb 18 11:21:17 <morphis> GNUtoo|laptop: heyho
Feb 18 11:21:30 <CIA-102> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rdf3b24887c7e 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/palmpre_quirks/touchscreenmanager.vala: fsodeviced: palmpre_quirks: kill tsmd daemon before launching it
Feb 18 11:21:31 <CIA-102> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rc8046169b681 10/libfsobasics/fsobasics/process.vala: libfsobasics: pidof: use correct array index for validation
Feb 18 11:21:32 <CIA-102> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * re42b2f593950 10/libfsobasics/ (fsobasics/process.vala tests/testprocess.vala): libfsobasics: add attach method to process guard class
Feb 18 11:21:35 <CIA-102> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r8a9a3d7ce22d 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): libfsobasics: process: rename pidof to findByName
Feb 18 11:21:42 <CIA-102> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r12933f36ed2b 10/libfsobasics/ (fsobasics/process.vala tests/testprocess.vala): libfsobasics: you have to specify the command when attaching to a process
Feb 18 11:21:49 <CIA-102> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rba45cd954ee4 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/palmpre_quirks/touchscreenmanager.vala: fsodeviced: palmpre_quirks: rather launching the ts daemon only we now try to attach first
Feb 18 11:51:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> morphis, hi
Feb 18 13:26:16 <mickey|office> moin GNUtoo|laptop 
Feb 18 13:33:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> hi
Feb 18 13:34:09 <GNUtoo|laptop> mickey|office, do you need some testing?
Feb 18 13:35:19 <mickey|office> if you want, you could strip testping down to see what's the actual command that makes things come up properly
Feb 18 13:35:31 <mickey|office> i did not have time to look at anything last week
Feb 18 13:35:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 13:35:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> I wanted to help but no one was there for telling me on what to work
Feb 18 13:36:03 <mickey|office> other than that, we need someone to do audio
Feb 18 13:36:17 <mickey|office> i.e. download libcmtspeech, see what the test program does
Feb 18 13:36:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> how can I test audio if....call don't work
Feb 18 13:36:22 <mickey|office> try whether a call comes up with audio
Feb 18 13:36:27 <mickey|office> calls work fine
Feb 18 13:36:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> wow
Feb 18 13:36:35 <mickey|office> not fully implemented, but i can initiate, and receive fine
Feb 18 13:36:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 13:36:49 <mickey|office> so the necessary dependencies for audio are there
Feb 18 13:36:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 13:36:55 <mickey|office> at least from fsogsmd side
Feb 18 13:37:01 <mickey|office> ah well... no
Feb 18 13:37:03 <GNUtoo|laptop> so I really need a working setup
Feb 18 13:37:04 <mickey|office> it crashes for you
Feb 18 13:37:05 <mickey|office> :/
Feb 18 13:37:07 <mickey|office> right?
Feb 18 13:37:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll retry
Feb 18 13:37:16 <mickey|office> ok
Feb 18 13:37:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> with newer bitbaken image
Feb 18 13:37:23 <mickey|office> good
Feb 18 13:37:27 <mickey|office> i also updated vala in oe
Feb 18 13:37:34 <mickey|office> perhaps this improves something
Feb 18 13:37:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 13:37:47 <mickey|office> since i always build with HEAD on my machine
Feb 18 13:37:49 <mickey|office> (vala HEAD)
Feb 18 13:38:03 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 14:15:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> recompiling the toolchain.....
Feb 18 14:15:54 <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe I should look in my irc logs
Feb 18 14:16:03 <GNUtoo|laptop> because I forgott to add -g -no-frame-pointers
Feb 18 14:16:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> to sane toolchain.inc
Feb 18 14:16:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> and send the patch
Feb 18 14:16:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> as it's highly core
Feb 18 14:21:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe JaMa should look into it
Feb 18 14:33:35 <GNUtoo|laptop> mickey|office, btw if we switch to 2.6.37 I've a way to detect the charger and the 100mA/500mA
Feb 18 14:34:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> dmesg says: power_supply isp1704: prop CURRENT_MAX=500
Feb 18 14:34:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> or similar stuff
Feb 18 14:34:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> so we get that node or uevent
Feb 18 14:34:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> and we're done?
Feb 18 14:37:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> s/get/use/
Feb 18 14:37:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> (/sys/class/power_supply/....)
Feb 18 14:46:08 <mickey|office> excellent
Feb 18 14:46:12 <mickey|office> yes, we can use that then
Feb 18 14:46:44 <mickey|office> perhaps paul gets somewhere wrt. forwarding, then i would switch to .37 as well
Feb 18 14:49:07 <playya> captainigloo, ping
Feb 18 14:52:26 <captainigloo> playya: pong
Feb 18 14:53:14 <playya> moin
Feb 18 14:53:29 <playya> i tried to compile enna with quite recent evas,...
Feb 18 14:53:49 <playya> but it seems to depend on old stuff (like eina-0)
Feb 18 14:53:58 <captainigloo> hum, wich version ?
Feb 18 14:54:05 <captainigloo> mercurial head ?
Feb 18 14:55:03 <playya> i ran a hg update iirc
Feb 18 14:55:09 <playya> but version si from 2823:05c4839401f0
Feb 18 14:55:17 <playya> ehh Wed Jan 27 16:28:00 2010 +0100
Feb 18 14:55:23 <playya> maybe wrong branch?
Feb 18 14:55:52 <captainigloo> maybe, iirc i change to depends on efl 1.0 some time ago
Feb 18 14:55:59 <captainigloo> but only on the master
Feb 18 14:56:16 <captainigloo> 0.4.1 branch had always old version
Feb 18 14:56:23 <playya> ok. maybe i just ran a hg update instead of pull?
Feb 18 14:56:38 <captainigloo> hg pull -u
Feb 18 14:56:47 <captainigloo> it pull and update
Feb 18 14:56:58 <playya> ok. I'm not familiar with hg
Feb 18 14:57:19 <playya> do you already support vdr?
Feb 18 14:58:08 <captainigloo> not really, is more a hack
Feb 18 14:58:13 <captainigloo> it's
Feb 18 14:58:31 <captainigloo> last time i tried it was really hard to get it working
Feb 18 14:58:46 <captainigloo> you need a special version of xine
Feb 18 14:58:57 <captainigloo> the xine-vdr plugin ....
Feb 18 14:59:16 <captainigloo> and a lot of patches.
Feb 18 14:59:21 <playya> are you using ubuntu 10.10 or is there any ppa?
Feb 18 14:59:25 <playya> oh. ok :/
Feb 18 14:59:43 <captainigloo> it's not me who had develop the vdr plugin
Feb 18 15:00:09 <captainigloo> and i do a lot of changes in enna core, so i guess that the vdr plugin should not build anymore
Feb 18 15:01:15 <captainigloo> iirc it's a geexbox guy who had developped the code
Feb 18 15:02:02 <captainigloo> playya: btw with the head revision of enna you have a specific phone theme
Feb 18 15:02:18 <captainigloo> based on the stb one.
Feb 18 15:02:31 <captainigloo> you can try it with enna -t phone or enna -t stb
Feb 18 15:02:57 <captainigloo> but it needd more work to be completly usable
Feb 18 15:05:57 <playya> ok
Feb 18 15:06:04 <playya> i now get: enna.c:310: error: too few arguments to function ‘elm_theme_extension_add’
Feb 18 15:06:22 <playya> there's a item name missing
Feb 18 15:07:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> mickey|office, do you want a trace or an activator first?
Feb 18 15:09:20 <captainigloo> playya: hum strange
Feb 18 15:09:47 <captainigloo> for me you are stil using the branch
Feb 18 15:09:50 <captainigloo> still*
Feb 18 15:10:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> does git have an hg plugin?
Feb 18 15:10:32 <captainigloo> no idea
Feb 18 15:10:49 <playya> GNUtoo|laptop, afaik yes
Feb 18 15:10:56 <playya> my efl rev: Revision: 56677
Feb 18 15:11:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> so maybe use that?
Feb 18 15:12:18 <captainigloo> playya: your revision is outdated
Feb 18 15:12:30 <captainigloo> i didn't seen the date :)
Feb 18 15:12:33 <captainigloo> 2010 !
Feb 18 15:12:40 <playya> really
Feb 18 15:12:50 <playya> ok. will run reasy tonight
Feb 18 15:12:59 <captainigloo> not the efl one
Feb 18 15:13:03 <captainigloo> the enna one
Feb 18 15:13:08 <playya> yes
Feb 18 15:13:16 <playya> i already did a hg pull
Feb 18 15:13:33 <captainigloo> ok, i wil try to update here
Feb 18 15:13:44 <captainigloo> I maybe have something wrong
Feb 18 15:14:14 <playya> Tue Jan 25 19:09:55 2011 +0100
Feb 18 15:14:55 <captainigloo> yep ok :)
Feb 18 15:15:18 <captainigloo> build fine here
Feb 18 15:15:42 <captainigloo> with elementary 57149
Feb 18 15:17:39 <captainigloo> playya: you maybe have multiple elementary.pc files on your system, of multiple Elementary.h ?
Feb 18 15:18:30 <playya> no. already checked it
Feb 18 15:18:43 <playya> and pkg-config add /usr/include/elementary-0 to the includepaths
Feb 18 15:20:59 <playya> and http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/elementary/src/lib/Elementary.h.in#L438 wants the additional parameter, too
Feb 18 15:26:33 <captainigloo> http://hg.geexbox.org/enna/file/e8a528d6c47a/src/bin/enna.c#l330 and enna give it the right param
Feb 18 15:27:44 <captainigloo> playya: could you give the result of hg st ?
Feb 18 15:30:57 <playya> captainigloo, empty
Feb 18 15:33:17 <playya> recloning repo
Feb 18 15:35:56 <playya> ok. now it works
Feb 18 15:38:50 <captainigloo> ouch
Feb 18 15:41:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> 125			g_main_loop_run (mainloop);
Feb 18 15:42:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll recompile libgisi
Feb 18 15:47:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> gisicomm.c:1271
Feb 18 15:48:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> 1271		self->online = state == PN_LINK_UP;
Feb 18 15:48:10 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll re-do the trace
Feb 18 15:48:13 <GNUtoo|laptop> because of that:
Feb 18 15:48:17 <GNUtoo|laptop> Backtrace stopped: previous frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?)
Feb 18 15:56:33 <GNUtoo|laptop> mickey|zzZZzz, 
Feb 18 15:56:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> ping
Feb 18 15:56:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> I've your trace
Feb 18 16:08:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://www.pastie.org/1579205
Feb 18 16:16:04 <DocScrutinizer> libgysi :-) nice
Feb 18 17:44:36 <playya> GNUtoo|laptop, it segv in this line?
Feb 18 17:47:15 <GNUtoo|oeee> yes
Feb 18 17:47:28 <GNUtoo|oeee> I pastebined the whole trace
Feb 18 17:47:33 <playya> ok
Feb 18 17:47:52 <playya> where can i get the libnl with phonet?
Feb 18 17:48:25 <playya> do you get the NETLINK STATE = message?
Feb 18 17:48:37 <GNUtoo|oeee> sec
Feb 18 17:50:10 <GNUtoo|oeee> bb on laptop
Feb 18 17:51:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> playya, http://www.pastie.org/1579205
Feb 18 17:52:40 <playya> that's the gdb output
Feb 18 17:52:51 <playya> i need the output on the device
Feb 18 17:53:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> found it
Feb 18 17:53:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 17:53:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> it's in libgisi
Feb 18 17:54:01 <playya> yes
Feb 18 17:54:10 <playya> could you try this patch: http://pastebin.com/KBtu5HTt
Feb 18 17:54:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://pastebin.com/xNqmv5cJ
Feb 18 17:54:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 17:54:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> thanks a lot, I'll try now
Feb 18 17:55:13 <morphis> baah slow internet connection is so bad ...
Feb 18 17:56:15 <playya> armes kleines dutzidu
Feb 18 18:00:10 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T18:32:39.661653Z [DEBUG] fsogsmd : GLib <fsogsm.modem_nokia_isi>: isitransport.vala:53: ISI OPEN ASYNC ENTER PHASE 1
Feb 18 18:00:11 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T18:32:39.662904Z [DEBUG] fsogsmd : GLib <gisicomm>: gisicomm.vala:107: NETLINK STATE = PN_LINK_UP
Feb 18 18:00:19 <GNUtoo|laptop> and then it powers down the modem:
Feb 18 18:00:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T18:33:04.687470Z [DEBUG] DBusServiceResource <GSM>: Disabling resource DBusServiceResource...
Feb 18 18:00:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll play a bit arround with it
Feb 18 18:01:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> ha segfault
Feb 18 18:03:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://www.pastie.org/1579595
Feb 18 18:03:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> but I can't reproduce it anymore
Feb 18 18:04:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://www.pastie.org/1579600
Feb 18 18:09:45 <playya> GNUtoo|laptop, is there already a lowlevel plugin for the n900?
Feb 18 18:10:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes
Feb 18 18:10:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll look if it's activated
Feb 18 18:10:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> lowlevel_type = nokia900
Feb 18 18:10:58 <GNUtoo|laptop> [fsogsm.lowlevel_nokia900]
Feb 18 18:11:07 <GNUtoo|laptop> so it should be activated
Feb 18 18:11:08 <playya> 2011-02-18T18:35:54.824370Z [WARN]  FsoGsmNullLowLevel : NullLowlevel::poweron() - this is probably not what you want
Feb 18 18:11:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> indeed that's strange
Feb 18 18:12:35 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll try something
Feb 18 18:13:17 <playya> should i push the patch?
Feb 18 18:13:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> wait a sec
Feb 18 18:13:27 <playya> ok
Feb 18 18:14:09 <GNUtoo|laptop> it still blocks
Feb 18 18:14:34 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://www.pastie.org/1579640
Feb 18 18:14:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> should I reboot?
Feb 18 18:14:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll try rebooting
Feb 18 18:16:39 <GNUtoo|laptop> now it pass the level1
Feb 18 18:17:16 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah no
Feb 18 18:17:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://www.pastie.org/1579648
Feb 18 18:17:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> bbs I've some problem with xchat
Feb 18 18:18:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> the last one was a quick tail
Feb 18 18:18:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> I didn't disable all the dbus stuff
Feb 18 18:19:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> still blocked at:
Feb 18 18:19:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T18:52:33.620766Z [DEBUG] fsogsmd : GLib <fsogsm.modem_nokia_isi>: isitransport.vala:53: ISI OPEN ASYNC ENTER PHASE 1
Feb 18 18:19:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T18:52:33.622047Z [DEBUG] fsogsmd : GLib <gisicomm>: gisicomm.vala:107: NETLINK STATE = PN_LINK_UP
Feb 18 18:19:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> and then it closes the modem
Feb 18 18:21:27 <playya> could you add debug("netlink: %p online %s", netlink, online.to_string()); in line 113?
Feb 18 18:21:36 <playya> in front of the if
Feb 18 18:21:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 18:24:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T18:57:11.694831Z [DEBUG] fsogsmd : GLib <gisicomm>: gisicomm.vala:113: netlink: 0x34d7a0 online true
Feb 18 18:24:50 <GNUtoo|laptop> should I stop it right after that with gdb?
Feb 18 18:24:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> and peek the address?
Feb 18 18:25:18 <playya> step by step might be useful
Feb 18 18:25:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> like p *(0x34d7a0)
Feb 18 18:25:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 18:30:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://www.pastie.org/1579696
Feb 18 18:30:48 <GNUtoo|laptop> last line produces that:
Feb 18 18:30:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T19:03:09.018523Z [DEBUG] DBusServiceResource <GSM>: Disabling GSM resource...
Feb 18 18:31:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll try to do a better trace
Feb 18 18:31:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> playya, do you want me to run some commands?
Feb 18 18:32:02 <playya> not atm
Feb 18 18:32:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok I'll try to get a better traec
Feb 18 18:32:34 <GNUtoo|laptop> *trace
Feb 18 18:33:35 <playya> i don't know where we are in this bt
Feb 18 18:33:45 <GNUtoo|laptop> in glib I think
Feb 18 18:33:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> let me look
Feb 18 18:35:28 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes I confirm
Feb 18 18:35:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> it's glib
Feb 18 18:36:49 <playya> yes
Feb 18 18:37:03 <playya> but no indication which triggers it
Feb 18 18:37:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll try to do a better trace
Feb 18 18:37:34 <GNUtoo|laptop> how do I breakpoint on a file?
Feb 18 18:38:17 <playya> i think that's not possible
Feb 18 18:38:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> If a line number is specified, break at start of code for that line.
Feb 18 18:38:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll look as soon as firefox comes back
Feb 18 18:38:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://pastebin.com/pMnxwUCd
Feb 18 18:40:00 <[Rui]> playya: I'm tremendously sorry, but I had two huge deadlines this week on Tue and Wed to finish up two important documents. I promise to look (and hopefully commit straight afterwards) to your patches this weekend :|
Feb 18 18:40:40 <[Rui]> it seems I have a text message that borks the messages list
Feb 18 18:43:01 <playya> no problem
Feb 18 18:47:38 <[Rui]> (sleep 20*60; $location='home';)&
Feb 18 18:51:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> ouch threading
Feb 18 18:52:13 <GNUtoo|laptop> gisicomm.c:1341 => 2011-02-18T19:24:51.671693Z [DEBUG] fsogsmd : GLib <gisicomm>: gisicomm.vala:113: netlink: 0x14b1438 online true
Feb 18 18:52:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> then I wait
Feb 18 18:52:19 <GNUtoo|laptop> and then
Feb 18 18:52:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2011-02-18T19:25:04.366622Z [DEBUG] DBusServiceResource <GSM>: Disabling resource DBusServiceResource...
Feb 18 18:52:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> while the main thread is stopped
Feb 18 18:52:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll stop the second thread or try to next time
Feb 18 18:53:57 <playya> do you request the resource at some point?
Feb 18 18:54:01 <playya> GNUtoo|laptop, ^
Feb 18 18:54:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes of course
Feb 18 18:54:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> else it doesn't work
Feb 18 18:55:29 <playya> do you quit the program?
Feb 18 18:56:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> no
Feb 18 18:56:40 <playya> the caller needs to stay active on dbus
Feb 18 18:56:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> I know
Feb 18 18:56:49 <playya> ok
Feb 18 18:56:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> I use mdbus -i -s
Feb 18 18:57:01 <GNUtoo|laptop> *mdbus2
Feb 18 18:57:16 <playya> you can run mdbus2 -sln to listen to the signals
Feb 18 18:57:28 <playya> sorry. I'm off for today
Feb 18 18:57:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 18:57:35 <GNUtoo|laptop> will mickey|zzZZzz come?
Feb 18 18:57:40 <playya> celebrating my first real job
Feb 18 18:57:42 <playya> dunno
Feb 18 18:57:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 18:57:50 <GNUtoo|laptop> is he at cebit?
Feb 18 18:57:56 <playya> yes
Feb 18 18:57:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Feb 18 18:58:01 <playya> at the OE booth
Feb 18 18:58:05 <GNUtoo|laptop> what's your job?
Feb 18 18:58:37 <playya> linux for infotainment in BMWs Mercedes,....
Feb 18 18:58:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Feb 18 18:58:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> meego?
Feb 18 18:59:01 <playya> that's all i know until i'll sign the nda
Feb 18 18:59:02 <playya> no
Feb 18 18:59:20 <playya> the think meego is dying, too.
Feb 18 18:59:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 18:59:32 <playya> they
Feb 18 18:59:45 <playya> ok. bbl
Feb 18 18:59:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok bye
Feb 18 20:22:29 <morphis> GNUtoo|laptop: read my mail about shr/fso future on fso/shr ml?
Feb 18 20:22:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> no
Feb 18 20:22:43 <morphis> :)
Feb 18 20:22:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> I hope we're not doomed
Feb 18 20:23:03 <morphis> for sure
Feb 18 20:23:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:23:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll read
Feb 18 20:23:28 <morphis> I want some sort of release cycle for fso/shr
Feb 18 20:23:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> how is it called?
Feb 18 20:23:43 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah? to get rid of bugs?
Feb 18 20:23:50 <morphis> "About the future of FSO/SHR"
Feb 18 20:23:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:24:09 <morphis> no, to concentrate on some features instead concentrating on everything
Feb 18 20:24:24 <morphis> but to get rid of bugs too
Feb 18 20:25:42 <morphis> in general I want our development a little bit more organized
Feb 18 20:26:42 <morphis> for example 
Feb 18 20:27:19 <morphis> relase 2011.04 will support n900/palmpre and have this feature: basic rootfs support, basic modem support (call, network), ...
Feb 18 20:27:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> we can have todo list for the features
Feb 18 20:27:35 <morphis> so defining some deadline and work on a hand of features
Feb 18 20:27:37 <morphis> jepp
Feb 18 20:27:45 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'm not against beeing more organized
Feb 18 20:27:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> indeed I'm for it
Feb 18 20:28:03 <morphis> currently we have many people working on different parts but we need to bring all together
Feb 18 20:28:03 <GNUtoo|laptop> but I'm not sure release are the best thing to do
Feb 18 20:28:49 <morphis> maybe "snapshot" sounds better?
Feb 18 20:28:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> tag?
Feb 18 20:29:00 <GNUtoo|laptop> like oe?
Feb 18 20:29:08 <morphis> jupp
Feb 18 20:29:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> I agree for tag
Feb 18 20:29:17 <GNUtoo|laptop> but not for branch
Feb 18 20:29:25 <morphis> I tend to let it be some kind of stable version
Feb 18 20:29:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> also pespin's idea of blogging the change we made is very good
Feb 18 20:29:54 <GNUtoo|laptop> oe's way is fine
Feb 18 20:30:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> else how do we handle 2 development branches?
Feb 18 20:30:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> that will, instead of concentrating people, make them diverge
Feb 18 20:31:44 <morphis> hm ok
Feb 18 20:31:52 <morphis> testing tags should be ok
Feb 18 20:31:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:32:01 <morphis> or snapshot
Feb 18 20:32:17 <GNUtoo|laptop> someone can make shr-testing branch if he wants
Feb 18 20:32:18 <morphis> we should have a feature map for each snapshot
Feb 18 20:32:33 <GNUtoo|laptop> but I will only work on developping trough upstream/master etc...
Feb 18 20:32:43 <morphis> we need both
Feb 18 20:32:58 <morphis> we could call it a long sprint too
Feb 18 20:33:06 <morphis> or a milestone
Feb 18 20:33:09 <morphis> whatever
Feb 18 20:33:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> what would be the TODO for next version?
Feb 18 20:33:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> also....
Feb 18 20:33:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> we can't release the n900 yet
Feb 18 20:33:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> the kenrel is unusable
Feb 18 20:33:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> and spending time on it is useless
Feb 18 20:33:50 <morphis> we should create a wiki page a collect all features
Feb 18 20:33:58 <morphis> ok
Feb 18 20:33:58 <GNUtoo|laptop> there are some already
Feb 18 20:34:00 <GNUtoo|laptop> for the n900
Feb 18 20:34:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> and for all the devices
Feb 18 20:34:17 <morphis> the we should call it really a development snapshot
Feb 18 20:34:26 <morphis> but we should provide images/kernsl for each snapshot
Feb 18 20:34:34 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes
Feb 18 20:34:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> but we have a possible issue
Feb 18 20:34:49 <morphis> not depending on if it is usable
Feb 18 20:34:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> the buildhost is too slow
Feb 18 20:35:01 <morphis> maybe we can use the amthyst 
Feb 18 20:35:03 <morphis> for that
Feb 18 20:35:04 <GNUtoo|laptop> do you really want to bitbake the whole feed for each release?
Feb 18 20:35:15 <morphis> we should use trac for all the bug/task managemnt
Feb 18 20:35:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:35:25 <morphis> hm
Feb 18 20:35:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> until now I used wiki
Feb 18 20:35:34 <GNUtoo|laptop> for everything
Feb 18 20:35:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> fso wiki
Feb 18 20:35:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/HardwareComparison
Feb 18 20:36:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Hardware/N900/TODO
Feb 18 20:37:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> is the wiki more visible than the bug tracking?
Feb 18 20:37:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> I think so
Feb 18 20:38:58 <morphis> trac is better for oganizing tasks/bugs
Feb 18 20:39:20 <GNUtoo|laptop>  ah?
Feb 18 20:39:28 <morphis> and we can group them
Feb 18 20:39:28 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:39:58 <GNUtoo|laptop> wiki was easier for newcomer
Feb 18 20:42:27 <morphis> jepp
Feb 18 20:42:47 <morphis> anyone can request a feature but we need responsibility for each one
Feb 18 20:47:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> basically the todo list is fine for me
Feb 18 20:47:30 <morphis> and someone should be the head of a milestone
Feb 18 20:47:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> but I can't guarantee to work on something
Feb 18 20:47:44 <morphis> thats the point
Feb 18 20:48:05 <morphis> thats why I want to define a milestone with some features we can really work on
Feb 18 20:48:09 <morphis> in our limited time
Feb 18 20:48:21 <morphis> but this features we should do right
Feb 18 20:48:45 <morphis> I know there are many pittfalls like the kernel for n900 or the unknown modem protocol for the palmpre
Feb 18 20:48:57 <morphis> but I think it will help us in getting forward
Feb 18 20:54:21 <morphis> GNUtoo|laptop: what are the things which need to be done for the n900 with the highest priority?
Feb 18 20:54:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes ok
Feb 18 20:54:43 <GNUtoo|laptop> good plan
Feb 18 20:54:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> basically to make a release there are 3 groups of stuff
Feb 18 20:54:58 <GNUtoo|laptop> *modem
Feb 18 20:55:00 <GNUtoo|laptop> *kenrel
Feb 18 20:55:01 <GNUtoo|laptop> *fso
Feb 18 20:55:10 <morphis> but for a first milestone?
Feb 18 20:55:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> modem
Feb 18 20:55:17 <morphis> ok
Feb 18 20:55:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> the rest will be importnat later
Feb 18 20:55:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> but the problem is
Feb 18 20:55:30 <morphis> then we should split modem into some more parts
Feb 18 20:55:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> that not everybody is good at modem
Feb 18 20:55:42 <morphis> and order them by priority
Feb 18 20:55:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> for modem I can test
Feb 18 20:56:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> but I've no idea on how gisi work
Feb 18 20:56:03 <morphis> I know and for that we should take one aspect from each group for a milestone for example
Feb 18 20:56:07 <morphis> ok
Feb 18 20:56:13 <morphis> but so we can work together
Feb 18 20:56:37 <morphis> and have some date and some kind of a target to reach in a limited time
Feb 18 20:56:45 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:56:47 <morphis> and time is not enough
Feb 18 20:56:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> what should I work on?
Feb 18 20:56:54 <morphis> we will delay the milestone
Feb 18 20:57:04 <morphis> we should collect first
Feb 18 20:57:07 <morphis> create some wiki page
Feb 18 20:57:10 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:57:12 <morphis> explain the general idea
Feb 18 20:57:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> I know a bit trac
Feb 18 20:57:19 <morphis> and create another one for each milestone
Feb 18 20:57:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> but I need some admin rights
Feb 18 20:57:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> for defining targets etc...
Feb 18 20:57:30 <morphis> there we collect the features we want to have in this milestone
Feb 18 20:57:39 <morphis> then we create tasks in trac and collect bugs
Feb 18 20:57:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:57:54 <morphis> as there there are even rootfs bugs we need to fix for both n900 and palmpre
Feb 18 20:58:09 <morphis> thats maybe something you take care off
Feb 18 20:58:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:58:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> I've very limited time nowadays
Feb 18 20:58:23 <morphis> and maybe the image generation on the buildhost/amethyst
Feb 18 20:58:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> because I'm always tired
Feb 18 20:58:30 <morphis> :)
Feb 18 20:58:37 <morphis> like me
Feb 18 20:58:47 <morphis> I have currently a 40h/per week job until march
Feb 18 20:58:53 <morphis> then studying again
Feb 18 20:58:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 20:59:01 <morphis> but we need to motivate more people
Feb 18 20:59:11 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'm motivated but I've a big problem
Feb 18 20:59:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> I have bad luck
Feb 18 20:59:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'm always there when nobody is there
Feb 18 20:59:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> and end waiting on stuff
Feb 18 20:59:35 <GNUtoo|laptop> like for a bug I don't know how to fix
Feb 18 20:59:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> or waiting for mickeyl like today
Feb 18 21:01:36 <morphis> hm
Feb 18 21:03:12 <morphis> what kind of bug?
Feb 18 21:08:07 <mrmoku> yo
Feb 18 21:13:58 <mrmoku> GNUtoo|laptop: ping
Feb 18 21:14:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> pong
Feb 18 21:14:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> morphis, modem stuff
Feb 18 21:14:21 <mrmoku> what kernel are you using these days?
Feb 18 21:14:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> very low level modem
Feb 18 21:14:25 <mrmoku> (n900)
Feb 18 21:14:35 <GNUtoo|laptop> mrmoku, the 2.6.37 from meego
Feb 18 21:14:45 <GNUtoo|laptop> I tried to make camera work but it seem complicated
Feb 18 21:14:48 <mrmoku> GNUtoo|laptop: meego or the nokia one?
Feb 18 21:14:54 <mrmoku> the nokia one probably...
Feb 18 21:14:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> basically the userspace tool is complicated
Feb 18 21:14:58 <GNUtoo|laptop> meego
Feb 18 21:15:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> let me find it
Feb 18 21:15:23 <mrmoku>         url = git://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel.git
Feb 18 21:15:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel/commits/2.6.37-n900-next
Feb 18 21:16:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> 2.6.37-n900-next
Feb 18 21:16:08 <mrmoku> yeah, that's what I call the nokia one :)
Feb 18 21:16:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 21:16:15 <mrmoku> it's not the meego kernel
Feb 18 21:16:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Feb 18 21:16:24 <mrmoku> ok, we should get that to oe
Feb 18 21:16:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes
Feb 18 21:16:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> the other don't have a working DVFS
Feb 18 21:16:43 <GNUtoo|laptop> this one either
Feb 18 21:16:47 <mrmoku> do you have a good defconfig?
Feb 18 21:16:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> but it has other features
Feb 18 21:16:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> no
Feb 18 21:16:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> I've a monolitic defconfig
Feb 18 21:16:58 <nschle85> morphis: motivating is not enough, the main problem is i think to understand how thinks are working
Feb 18 21:16:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> for easy testing
Feb 18 21:17:04 <GNUtoo|laptop> no modules at all
Feb 18 21:18:21 <mrmoku> morphis: btw. read your mail too
Feb 18 21:19:17 <mrmoku> morphis: and yes, I don't feel well with moving planlessly ahead either
Feb 18 21:19:32 <mrmoku> morphis: though I think it's more complicated
Feb 18 21:23:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> todo list are a start
Feb 18 21:23:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> we could add some todo list in trac
Feb 18 21:23:50 <GNUtoo|laptop> as morphis suggested
Feb 18 21:23:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> as a start
Feb 18 21:24:33 <mrmoku> I think it is not _one_ todo list
Feb 18 21:24:42 <mrmoku> we have different components
Feb 18 21:24:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> I know
Feb 18 21:24:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> but we start with a todo list
Feb 18 21:24:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> and sort them
Feb 18 21:25:00 <GNUtoo|laptop> by components
Feb 18 21:25:01 <mrmoku> ok :)
Feb 18 21:25:10 <GNUtoo|laptop> I forgett to tell that as I thought it was obvious
Feb 18 21:27:18 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop:  mrmoku: what are you talking about ? I have not got the start of your discussion. Is it about future of SHR ?
Feb 18 21:27:39 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes
Feb 18 21:27:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> it's about morphis's mail:
Feb 18 21:28:11 <GNUtoo|laptop> Subject: 	About the future of FSO/SHR
Feb 18 21:34:44 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: who is Simon Bush (morphis ? ) and Neil Jerram ?
Feb 18 21:35:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> morphis, is simon bush
Feb 18 21:35:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> I don't know for neil
Feb 18 21:35:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> why?
Feb 18 21:35:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> to map irc<->mail
Feb 18 21:35:39 <GNUtoo|laptop> ?
Feb 18 21:37:24 <[Rui]> this is very boring, for every file I install with a .desktop file, e crashes
Feb 18 21:38:22 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: yes, want map irc - mail
Feb 18 21:38:37 <nschle85> [Rui]: i have the same problem
Feb 18 21:38:38 <[Rui]> No elm_efreet support compiled in
Feb 18 21:38:46 <[Rui]> grrr
Feb 18 21:39:01 <[Rui]> efreet should be added as an elementary dependency
Feb 18 21:39:08 <mrmoku> [Rui]: talking about your desktop?
Feb 18 21:39:11 <[Rui]> THIS is why shr_elm_softkey doesn't have pretty window icons
Feb 18 21:39:15 <[Rui]> in the task list
Feb 18 21:39:28 <[Rui]> mrmoku: about my freerunner's desktop with shr-u current
Feb 18 21:39:52 <mrmoku> ahh, talking about shr_elm_softkey... I had it switching to a wrong window at least once
Feb 18 21:39:53 <[Rui]> mrmoku: can you make efreet be available in oe before elementary is built?
Feb 18 21:40:05 <GNUtoo|laptop> [Rui], do you want a trace of it?
Feb 18 21:40:05 <nschle85> mrmoku: [Rui] is right, installing new applications lets e-wm crash
Feb 18 21:40:06 <[Rui]> mrmoku: haven't had that yet
Feb 18 21:40:43 <[Rui]> mrmoku: there is one possibility for that, that comes to my mind.
Feb 18 21:40:48 <[Rui]> mrmoku: the list is not dynamic
Feb 18 21:41:05 <[Rui]> mrmoku: if a window changes in between, I don't know if the window ids are maintained
Feb 18 21:41:20 <[Rui]> but I just say that because I know very little of the innards of X
Feb 18 21:41:23 <mrmoku> [Rui]: yeah, it was persistent... think two windows we're switched IIRC
Feb 18 21:41:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> I think I should really fix the lack of debugability
Feb 18 21:41:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> but JaMa is not there
Feb 18 21:41:58 <[Rui]> mrmoku: but can you make sure efreet is a dependency for elementary?
Feb 18 21:42:10 <[Rui]> mrmoku: ie, do you have commit there?
Feb 18 21:42:17 <mrmoku> [Rui]: let me check the dependencies...
Feb 18 21:42:58 <mrmoku> [Rui]: DEPENDS = "eet-native efreet evas ecore edje eet edbus ethumb"
Feb 18 21:43:19 <[Rui]> mrmoku: yeah, just noticed another thing: no PKG_CHECK for efreet
Feb 18 21:43:31 <[Rui]> I will add that epxlicitly to shr-e-gadgets
Feb 18 21:43:32 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop:  i read the mails, I agree in some parts, one year ago, I was wondering how shr is developed, i told it and earned misunderstanding. Now I think we should think about a new development process
Feb 18 21:44:46 <[Rui]> mrmoku: thanks. I will check if this fix solves it
Feb 18 21:44:57 <[Rui]> nice window icons are a plus for the task list
Feb 18 21:45:33 <[Rui]> I'll be having an e17 crash in a few seconds
Feb 18 21:47:16 <mrmoku> [Rui]: what fix? that DEPENDS was already there :)
Feb 18 21:47:32 <mrmoku> ahh... you mean your fix :)
Feb 18 21:47:32 <mrmoku> ok
Feb 18 21:47:41 <[Rui]> mrmoku: adding a package check for efreet explicitly
Feb 18 21:47:49 <mrmoku> and yes... window icons would be very nice
Feb 18 21:48:24 <[Rui]> elm_efreet is not there, hms...
Feb 18 21:48:54 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: we dont need a task list, we need a feature list first
Feb 18 21:49:09 <GNUtoo|laptop> what's the difference?
Feb 18 21:49:17 <GNUtoo|laptop> for me task means something like 
Feb 18 21:49:19 <GNUtoo|laptop> fix wifi
Feb 18 21:49:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> add sms 
Feb 18 21:49:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> etc....
Feb 18 21:50:24 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: no, a feature is: wifi works with protocol ....
Feb 18 21:50:36 <[Rui]> mrmoku: that DEPENDS was for elementary?
Feb 18 21:50:47 <mrmoku> [Rui]: yup
Feb 18 21:50:51 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: wifi can be configured with an GUI tool
Feb 18 21:51:04 * [Rui] is getting confused, no ELM_EFREET came up
Feb 18 21:51:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> obviously you add some better messages and explanations
Feb 18 21:51:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> but I see not difference between my task list and your feature list
Feb 18 21:51:39 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: no, a feature is a feature, and may have several tasks
Feb 18 21:51:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Feb 18 21:51:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> I understand
Feb 18 21:52:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> such as phone calls with GUI
Feb 18 21:52:13 <GNUtoo|laptop> that depend on:
Feb 18 21:52:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> *modem
Feb 18 21:52:21 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: later you can test the feature, and not all the tasks
Feb 18 21:52:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> *cmt udev 
Feb 18 21:52:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> etc...
Feb 18 21:52:55 <[Rui]> captainigloo: how's your kick-ass home app? :)
Feb 18 21:54:12 <[Rui]> mrmoku: from the examples I find, if elementary was built with efreet support, then you'd have ELM_EFREET
Feb 18 21:54:23 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: features are on user level, fixes are on developers level, If you buy a phone nobody will write on the box: we fixed sms, On the box is written: You can write SMS :-)
Feb 18 21:54:32 <mrmoku> [Rui]: hmm...
Feb 18 21:54:38 * mrmoku takes another look at the recipe
Feb 18 21:54:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> lol ok yes I already understood:
Feb 18 21:54:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> <GNUtoo|laptop> I understand
Feb 18 21:55:20 <[Rui]> mrmoku: I don't know if it's autodetected or if it needs explicit --enable
Feb 18 21:55:21 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: so we should write a feature list what your phones can do 
Feb 18 21:55:31 <mrmoku> [Rui]: maybe elm does not pick it up automatically
Feb 18 21:55:33 <mrmoku> yeah
Feb 18 21:55:33 <GNUtoo|laptop> we've already something somewhat similar
Feb 18 21:55:43 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: i know
Feb 18 21:55:47 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/HardwareComparison
Feb 18 21:55:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 21:55:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> that needs to be track-ified
Feb 18 21:56:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> who has admin on trac?
Feb 18 21:56:09 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: YES !
Feb 18 21:56:17 <captainigloo> [Rui]: efreet is autodetected by elementary
Feb 18 21:56:33 <captainigloo> and you need to add elm_need_efreet in your code if you want your app use it
Feb 18 21:56:37 <[Rui]> elementary autodetects efreet, looking at the configure.ac
Feb 18 21:56:47 <[Rui]> captainigloo: oh?
Feb 18 21:56:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> and which trac?
Feb 18 21:56:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> fso or shr or both?
Feb 18 21:57:09 <captainigloo> [Rui]: and i'm working on it currently
Feb 18 21:57:16 <[Rui]> captainigloo: ok, but the problem is that ELM_EFREET isn't defined
Feb 18 21:57:38 <captainigloo> working on the config, to be able to load gadgets/app when you start it again
Feb 18 21:57:39 <[Rui]> captainigloo: I don't even get to the point where I'd need to call elm_need_efreet (but nice tip, thanks)
Feb 18 21:58:25 <captainigloo> [Rui]: if autodetects failed and ELM_EFREET isn't defined it's a bug in elementary
Feb 18 21:58:48 <captainigloo> s/isn't/is
Feb 18 21:58:59 <[Rui]> captainigloo: in shr-u, ELM_EFREET is not defined
Feb 18 21:59:05 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: hmmm, let me think about it
Feb 18 22:00:04 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: if a user installs an image, is it a shr or fso image ?
Feb 18 22:00:10 <captainigloo>  [Rui] so autodetects failed
Feb 18 22:00:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> SHR
Feb 18 22:00:50 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: you gave the answer, shr provides the features
Feb 18 22:01:17 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: so shr must track the progress
Feb 18 22:01:28 <mrmoku> nschle85: there is basically three things....
Feb 18 22:01:35 <mrmoku> a) SHR the distro (the image you install)
Feb 18 22:01:36 <captainigloo> [Rui]: btw did you see recent raster's change on elm ? those concerning usage of elm to drive application switch ?
Feb 18 22:01:41 <mrmoku> b) FSO the middleware
Feb 18 22:01:48 <mrmoku> c) SHR the GUI stack
Feb 18 22:02:12 <mrmoku> (talking about the phone part)
Feb 18 22:02:42 <elisa42> GNUtoo|laptop: maybe we should first start with all the existing tickes? see if they are still valid etc. or we just delete them and start over.
Feb 18 22:03:16 <nschle85> elisa42: you are right its a good start
Feb 18 22:03:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> elisa42, ok
Feb 18 22:03:42 <nschle85> mrmoku: and ????? 
Feb 18 22:03:59 <mrmoku> 23:00 < nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: you gave the answer, shr provides the features
Feb 18 22:04:04 <mrmoku> that is _not_ so
Feb 18 22:04:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> can we make a ticket depend on fso?
Feb 18 22:04:52 <mrmoku> maybe we should consider to join tracs
Feb 18 22:05:00 <mrmoku> dunno what mickey|office thinks about that though
Feb 18 22:05:15 <nschle85> mrmoku: on source code level you are right, but on user level shr does ! (no user cares about middle ware )
Feb 18 22:05:39 <mrmoku> nschle85: yeah, but what we're trying to achieve is to plan the source code level
Feb 18 22:05:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> mickey|office is not online
Feb 18 22:06:41 <nschle85> mrmoku: no you want to know where to go
Feb 18 22:07:16 <mrmoku> nschle85: well... right you are... we need _both_ :-)
Feb 18 22:08:09 <mrmoku> and yes... defining the features from an end user pov is the first step
Feb 18 22:08:21 <mrmoku> (which would be SHR the distro then)
Feb 18 22:09:04 <nschle85> mrmoku: i wont to come over arrogant, but please leave source code level. First you have a target... then comes source code
Feb 18 22:09:22 <nschle85> mrmoku: i dont wont to come :-)
Feb 18 22:09:47 <nschle85> mrmoku: i am writing silly ...
Feb 18 22:10:06 <nschle85> mrmoku: hope you understand me
Feb 18 22:11:08 <mrmoku> nschle85: 23:08 < mrmoku> and yes... defining the features from an end user pov is the first step
Feb 18 22:12:04 <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe we should first create a new milestone
Feb 18 22:12:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> or something like that
Feb 18 22:12:16 <GNUtoo|laptop> and start adding and migrating features
Feb 18 22:13:44 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: mrmoku: there is one problem: all developers are working in spare time, how to force to complete Feature A ?
Feb 18 22:14:13 <GNUtoo|laptop> I think if it's in trac
Feb 18 22:14:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> some people would work on it
Feb 18 22:14:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> according to their skills
Feb 18 22:14:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> for instance I don't want to work on low level modem
Feb 18 22:14:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'm better at kernel
Feb 18 22:14:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> so I can try to fix kernel issues
Feb 18 22:15:30 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: the problem (or not) is that trac assigns bugs to distinct persons instead of teams. do you agree ? 
Feb 18 22:15:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> ahh ouch
Feb 18 22:16:04 <GNUtoo|laptop> but there is a default assignement
Feb 18 22:16:09 <GNUtoo|laptop> but it's to persons then
Feb 18 22:16:50 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: i think there must be a trac manager who assigns tasks and tracks the progress
Feb 18 22:18:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 22:19:51 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: mrmoku: i think we cannot solve the problems here, if you really want to set up a process we should start like a scratch board and collect ideas
Feb 18 22:20:10 <mrmoku> nschle85: well... not now ;)
Feb 18 22:20:26 <mrmoku> I'm on my way to bed... have to get up early and deliver a server tomorrow morning
Feb 18 22:21:11 <nschle85> but GNUtoo|laptop: mrmoku: are you really interested in bringing some structure in shr ?
Feb 18 22:21:12 <mrmoku> nschle85: and the correct thing is probably to respond to morphis' mail to start some disucssion there
Feb 18 22:21:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes
Feb 18 22:21:30 <mrmoku> yup
Feb 18 22:21:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> altough, as usual, the devil is in the details
Feb 18 22:22:06 <mrmoku> if not we won't have a stable release before Iphone 15 is out ;)
Feb 18 22:22:56 <mrmoku> anyway... have to sleep now
Feb 18 22:23:00 <mrmoku> gnight all
Feb 18 22:23:03 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: mrmoku: so ill start a new wiki page on shr wiki, trying to collect some ideas
Feb 18 22:23:11 <mrmoku> nschle85: great
Feb 18 22:23:18 <nschle85> mrmoku: night, good luck
Feb 18 22:23:21 <mrmoku> and gnight
Feb 18 22:23:23 <mrmoku> thanks
Feb 18 22:23:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Feb 18 22:23:33 <mrmoku> hopefully I don't need luck... skill should suffice ;)
Feb 18 22:23:37 <mrmoku> cu
Feb 18 22:23:59 <nschle85> mrmoku: if the servers are windows based you need some luck :-)
Feb 18 22:25:56 <nschle85> mrmoku: GNUtoo|laptop: before you going to bed, one question, what is the best medium for discuss the current problem ?
Feb 18 22:26:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> nschle85, I think the mailing list + the IRC
Feb 18 22:27:58 <nschle85> GNUtoo|laptop: i am not active on mailing list, but its time to register i think, mrmoku: what do you think ?
Feb 18 22:28:19 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes good idea
Feb 18 22:28:34 <[Rui]> captainigloo: no, I didn't see that recent change of raster which one do you mean?
Feb 18 22:29:37 <nschle85> elisa42: are you still online ?
Feb 18 22:30:12 <elisa42> yes
Feb 18 22:30:14 <elisa42> ihm here
Feb 18 22:30:32 <nschle85> elisa42: your idea to clean up TRAC was very good
Feb 18 22:30:37 <elisa42> just lookin at some of the bugs in  trac
Feb 18 22:31:49 <nschle85> elisa42: can you develop a strategy how to clean the entries in trac please ?
Feb 18 22:31:59 <elisa42> yeah.. some are realy old and invalid other things are just as broke as they where months ago. though nobody had time to fix them or dig into them
Feb 18 22:32:29 <nschle85> elisa42: this information is very useful
Feb 18 22:32:39 <elisa42> nschle85: i think one could just see if they are still valid or not (timeconsuming)
Feb 18 22:32:48 <elisa42> nschle85: and mark them somehow
Feb 18 22:33:06 <nschle85> elisa42: do you have a shr wiki account ?
Feb 18 22:33:22 <elisa42> ive got an trac account yes
Feb 18 22:33:33 <elisa42> seems to be the same for the wiki
Feb 18 22:33:47 <nschle85> elisa42: yes its the same
Feb 18 22:34:31 <nschle85> so i will create a new wiki page and a section for your input
Feb 18 22:34:46 <nschle85> elisa42: do you agree ?
Feb 18 22:35:17 <elisa42> nschle85: ok we'll see if i'm able to contribute something
Feb 18 22:37:13 <nschle85> elisa42: dont be afraid !
Feb 18 22:37:51 <elisa42> nschle85: i try not to :D
Feb 18 22:38:20 <nschle85> elisa42: so i have to create a new wiki page
Feb 18 22:41:56 <elisa42> nschle85: alright. then we can track the progress with that page
Feb 18 22:45:53 <nschle85> elisa42: ok give me some minutes to find a good name for the new page
Feb 18 22:50:46 <elisa42> nschle85: found a name?
Feb 18 22:51:01 <nschle85> elisa42: no talking with you :-)
Feb 18 22:52:02 <nschle85> i would like to add a new page in Developer resources
Feb 18 22:52:37 <nschle85> my first idea was: Development Process
Feb 18 22:53:12 <nschle85> elisa42: its very general
Feb 18 22:54:03 <nschle85> elisa42: what do think ? 
Feb 18 22:55:20 <elisa42> nschle85: maybe something like get shr back ontrack or future of shr maybe
Feb 18 22:55:48 <elisa42> future development of shr
Feb 18 22:56:15 <nschle85> elisa42: i think this could be one of the sub pages
Feb 18 22:56:47 <elisa42> ok so you would like to layout a hole concept?
Feb 18 22:57:10 <nschle85> elisa42: yes, 
Feb 18 22:57:12 <elisa42> not just a few things we could do to improve
Feb 18 22:57:51 <nschle85> elisa42: the first things of the whole concept is to improve some things
Feb 18 22:58:01 <elisa42> :D
Feb 18 22:58:41 <nschle85> elisa42: the is no official entry in some formal things like development process
Feb 18 22:58:51 <nschle85> s/the/there/
Feb 18 22:58:53 <apt> nschle85 meant: elisa42: there is no official entry in some formal things like development process
Feb 18 22:59:16 <elisa42> sounds like a chicken-egg problem: we want to improve so we improve ;)
Feb 18 22:59:29 <nschle85> apt: you are right
Feb 18 22:59:30 <apt> I think you lost me on that one, nschle85
Feb 18 23:00:24 <nschle85> apt: we want to implement a process where we do not loose anyone
Feb 18 23:00:39 <elisa42> nschle85: at least not in an OS project. there is no wrong way of doing things if one one else would have done it
Feb 18 23:01:11 <elisa42> apt: have you drunken to much?
Feb 18 23:01:30 <elisa42> s/to/too/
Feb 18 23:06:18 <nschle85> apt: are you interested in explayning what we want ?
Feb 18 23:07:25 <elisa42> apt seems to be busy ;)
Feb 18 23:07:53 <[Rui]> mrmoku: it really has to be elementary that's not finding efreet for some reason
Feb 18 23:08:11 <nschle85> elisa42: i did also not understand his problem
Feb 18 23:08:59 <[Rui]> mrmoku: although it does link against it :(
Feb 18 23:09:14 <[Rui]> so maybe it's something about the build env
Feb 18 23:09:51 <elisa42> nschle85: well artifical intelligence hasn't made that much progres since the 70's as expeced
Feb 18 23:10:15 <elisa42> s/that much/as much/
Feb 18 23:10:15 <apt> elisa42 meant: nschle85: well artifical intelligence hasn't made as much progres since the 70's as expeced
Feb 18 23:11:18 <nschle85> apt: he told me
Feb 18 23:12:47 <nschle85> apt: are you interested in explaining what we want ?
Feb 18 23:13:22 <nschle85> elisa42: i ll create a page "Development Process"
Feb 18 23:13:36 <elisa42> nschle85: ok :) sounds great
Feb 18 23:16:09 <elisa42> apt seems to be sick
Feb 18 23:33:26 <nschle85> elisa42: GTA-02
Feb 18 23:33:59 <elisa42> nschle85: me too
Feb 18 23:34:39 <nschle85> elisa42: good -)
Feb 18 23:35:27 <elisa42> nschle85: also my only phone
Feb 18 23:36:15 <nschle85> elisa42: my too
Feb 18 23:36:33 <nschle85> elisa42: but i dont really need a phone
Feb 18 23:36:47 <nschle85> elisa42: look here: http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Development%20Process
Feb 18 23:37:21 <elisa42> nschle85: me neither. i wouldn't have one if it wasnt for the freerunner
Feb 18 23:38:37 <elisa42> nschle85: great, i'll think about what to do in detail about the first topic
Feb 18 23:39:15 <nschle85> elisa42: how can we involve other ? in the wiki we should enter the results
Feb 18 23:39:43 <elisa42> nschle85: other folks?
Feb 18 23:40:40 <nschle85> elisa42: folks ? other shr developers would be enought
Feb 18 23:42:04 <elisa42> nschle85: you mean the already very active ones or the ones to come?
Feb 18 23:42:52 <nschle85> elisa42: i mean the already active one
Feb 18 23:46:13 <elisa42> nschle85: i'm not sure if they have enought time
Feb 18 23:46:44 <nschle85> elisa42: its not necessary to assign distinct bugs to distinct developers, I think you develop a genaral strategy to reduce the amount of open bugs
Feb 18 23:47:58 <elisa42> nschle85: well i guess we just need someone how manages trac (as someone already said)
Feb 18 23:48:44 <nschle85> elisa42: we need someone who can classify the entries 
Feb 18 23:49:05 <elisa42> nschle85: in what way?
Feb 18 23:49:38 <nschle85> elisa42: you can read the database and summarize what kind of bugs are open
Feb 18 23:50:15 <elisa42> nschle85: what do you mean by "kind of bugs"?
Feb 18 23:50:48 <elisa42> nschle85: right now we've got 244 open bugs ;)
Feb 18 23:52:40 <nschle85> elisa42: bugs already fixed; minor bugs; change requests; complicated bugs which nobody wants to fix; .....
Feb 18 23:54:26 <nschle85> elisa42: you can ask a question if you read a trac ticket: Why is it not fixed ? (depending on answer you should goup it in)
Feb 18 23:57:07 <elisa42> nschle85: that can be done with the already assined ones
Feb 18 23:57:47 <nschle85> elisa42: no, the answer is: not assigned :-)
Feb 18 23:59:28 <elisa42> nschle85: but who should answer the question then?
Feb 19 00:00:00 <elisa42> nschle85: i'm just talking about the "why is it not fixed?"
Feb 19 00:00:44 <elisa42> nschle85: i agree with you on the other points though
Feb 19 00:02:46 <nschle85> elisa42: i mean the bug must be assigned
Feb 19 00:03:24 <nschle85> elisa42: in our company this process is called CCB (Change Control Board)
Feb 19 00:03:42 <elisa42> nschle85: oh.. i'm sorry 
Feb 19 00:04:53 <nschle85> elisa42: i think your task is to document what kind of bugs are sleeping in trac. 
Feb 19 00:05:50 <nschle85> elisa42: and how them could be fixed (a process not the fix is meant)
Feb 19 00:08:03 <elisa42> nschle85: yes, i will see which ones are still valid. if they appear to be invalid i'll write a comment asking the reporter to see if the agrees. 
Feb 19 00:08:40 <elisa42> i saw that when you comment on some bugs the reporter is still watching the progress even if its a very old bug
Feb 19 00:08:44 <nschle85> elisa42: in short: please write your ideas how Trac can be monitored, or Trac can be used a bit better.
Feb 19 00:09:17 <nschle85> elisa42: you should write a concept
Feb 19 00:10:11 <nschle85> elisa42: then we (shr) can discuss abaout it
Feb 19 00:10:18 <elisa42> nschle85: ok :) will do
Feb 19 00:11:48 <nschle85> elisa42: please do not get stressed, if you have time work on it, if you do not have time, meet with your friends in real life :-)
Feb 19 00:14:02 <elisa42> nschle85: yeah, i've got to more tests coming up next week
Feb 19 00:14:57 <elisa42> s/to/two/
Feb 19 00:14:58 <apt> elisa42 meant: nschle85: yeah, i've got two more tests coming up next week
Feb 19 00:15:00 <nschle85> elisa42: that i mean, first make your school, then comes shr :-)
Feb 19 00:16:12 <elisa42> nschle85: shr is probably at the lowes priority
Feb 19 00:17:01 <nschle85> elisa42: hmmm, but you asked the highest prior question :-)
Feb 19 00:17:51 <elisa42> nschle85: i knew it will pop up sooner or later
Feb 19 00:18:15 <nschle85> elisa42: right... 
Feb 19 00:19:12 <nschle85> elisa42: what is your name in mailing lists ?
Feb 19 00:20:02 <elisa42> nschle85: jake
Feb 19 00:20:54 <elisa42> nschle85: yours?
Feb 19 00:21:18 <nschle85> i did know a jake he was working with me on alphaflight amiga
Feb 19 00:21:55 <nschle85> elisa42: i am not active on mailing list
Feb 19 00:22:22 <elisa42> nschle85: no never had anything to do with amiga :)
Feb 19 00:22:27 <nschle85> elisa42: just a moment please, i ll register now
Feb 19 00:23:04 <elisa42> nschle85: ok. im not very active on it. mostly reading what's going on :)
Feb 19 00:23:33 <nschle85> elisa42: thats me too
Feb 19 00:24:01 <nschle85> elisa42: so i ll register now, please waot some seconds
Feb 19 00:28:00 <nschle85> elisa42: i am registered, nschle85 i think
Feb 19 00:28:38 <elisa42> nschle85: welcome to the list :)
Feb 19 00:29:17 <nschle85> and how do i write a mail to you ?
Feb 19 00:29:24 <elisa42> nschle85: to which one did you register? shr-user/devel? or openmoko-community?
Feb 19 00:29:45 <nschle85> devel
Feb 19 00:30:30 <elisa42> to the list or to me?
Feb 19 00:30:46 <nschle85> to the list (and to you)
Feb 19 00:32:14 <elisa42> just put my adress into To and cc to shr-devel@list.shr-project.org
Feb 19 00:33:18 <nschle85> elisa42: and what is your address ?
Feb 19 00:34:07 <elisa42> nschle85: see private message :)
Feb 19 00:35:59 <nschle85> elisa42: ok, ill not save it, ill start a new discussion about trac clean up or do you want to do it ?
Feb 19 00:38:19 <elisa42> nschle85: you could just write a reply to [Shr-Devel] About the future of FSO/SHR thread with a link to the new wiki page
Feb 19 00:39:35 <nschle85> elisa42: i did not got the mail :-)
Feb 19 00:39:54 <elisa42> nschle85: and invite others to discuss or write anything usefull into the wiki
Feb 19 00:40:25 <nschle85> elisa42: you are right
Feb 19 00:41:02 <elisa42> nschle85: did you get it now? 
Feb 19 00:42:09 <nschle85> no, cannot reply
Feb 19 00:43:22 <elisa42> nschle85: i'm not quite sure what you're trying to do?
Feb 19 00:44:22 <elisa42> nschle85: you want to write an email to the mailing list, right?
Feb 19 00:44:23 <nschle85> i thought i get an email where i can reply 
Feb 19 00:45:09 <nschle85> elisa42: right, but it should be a reply to the existing thread
Feb 19 00:46:02 <elisa42> nschle85: oh.. didn't think of that.. ofcourse you didn't get the mail as you wheren't subscribed at that time
Feb 19 00:46:19 <nschle85> elisa42: thats true
Feb 19 00:46:47 <nschle85> elisa42: you can write a mail with all the news :-)
Feb 19 00:48:19 <elisa42> nschle85:  ok ;)
Feb 19 00:58:22 <elisa42> nschle85: i've put some initial thought into the wiki
Feb 19 01:06:54 <elisa42> nschle85: i wrote a mail to the list with a link to the wiki page
Feb 19 01:11:53 <elisa42> nschle85: ping, sill there?
Feb 19 01:13:11 <elisa42> nschle85: i'm going to bed, gn8
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