**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 19 02:59:56 2011 Jul 19 07:45:20 SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07shr-chroot * rc79085a07be0 10/OE/.bashrc: bashrc: use cleansstate instead of cleanall to keep downloads Jul 19 09:11:40 SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07shr-makefile * rda01eaa73521 10/conf/shr-core/bblayers.conf: shr-core: enable meta-gnome for gconf Jul 19 10:15:40 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * r4506a681273a 10/libfsobasics/fsobasics/utilities.vala: libfsobasics: utilities: minor style corrections Jul 19 10:15:40 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * ra8b391fdbbb1 10/libfsobasics/fsobasics/ (6 files): libfsobasics: split utilities in seperate source files for a better overview Jul 19 10:15:41 freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rcb8ee8206773 10/Makefile: Jul 19 10:15:42 freesmartphone.org: cornucopia: use sudo for install/uninstall in global makefile Jul 19 10:15:42 freesmartphone.org: If you don't want sudo a prefix for install and uninstall just execute the makefile as Jul 19 10:15:42 freesmartphone.org: this: make SUDO= Jul 19 10:36:26 Weiss, larsc hi Jul 19 12:07:09 DocScrutinizer: (Lennart) and still he seems to be a talented (though controversal) hacker. His PA definitely has a point. It's just that it's not suitable for everybody, especially in the past days of the buggy drivers. Jul 19 12:08:47 would have the driver been corrected without pa ? Jul 19 12:09:40 *sigh* Jul 19 12:09:49 ~coffee Jul 19 12:09:50 it has been said that coffee is the reason the net exists, the drug of choice for a GNU generation, http://www.chez.com/emarsden/downloads/coffee.el, /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-html/mini/Coffee.html, geiseri's favorite beverage Jul 19 12:09:59 time for 12648430 ☕ Jul 19 12:10:04 moinmoin Jul 19 12:10:21 despite lennart the first topic I face Jul 19 12:13:08 ~poettering Jul 19 12:13:09 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' Jul 19 12:13:54 PaulFertser: I also think he has some good points Jul 19 12:14:26 and PA seems to run a async stack of plugins spinning idle (it seems to me) while ALSA obviously runs a sync stack of plugins paced by the hw Jul 19 12:15:20 DocScrutinizer: i'm somehow sure PA's design is really fine and is probably the optimal thing to meet the target requirements. Jul 19 12:15:44 meh Jul 19 12:16:29 lindi-: and btw in the ipv6 world avahi starts to play even more important part. Jul 19 12:18:37 UAAARGH another one, now that's too much for now. o/ Jul 19 12:20:36 really since yesterday people talk to me about poettering, that SCARES me :-O Jul 19 12:21:12 seems he opened a new large battle to turn linux into hos own playground, and away from *nix Jul 19 12:21:51 I'm all for forgetting *nix :) Jul 19 12:23:11 PaulFertser: the problem with *nix is that you can't change it Jul 19 12:23:26 lindi-: then start your own distro, fork, cal it maybe ubuntu-lin(DI), and implement whatever you like there Jul 19 12:24:11 DocScrutinizer: I'll rather do it together in an existing distro Jul 19 12:24:40 lindi-: ...except when you're poettering - then you might change linux at least Jul 19 12:24:59 yep Jul 19 12:25:24 but as you can see then everyone complains how it's the non-*nix way now Jul 19 12:25:26 and that's what I HATE with this guy Jul 19 12:25:40 indeed :-P Jul 19 12:25:46 so you can't really change *nix Jul 19 12:26:04 you can augment it Jul 19 12:26:34 but poettering means axing old good systems, for the NIH Jul 19 12:26:42 ~poettering Jul 19 12:26:43 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' Jul 19 12:26:44 well let's talk about cgroups for example Jul 19 12:27:00 how would you augment *nix to support the features? Jul 19 12:27:29 WTF cgroups? Jul 19 12:27:47 honestly I have found no use for that nonsense yet ;-P Jul 19 12:28:24 to be precise I haven't found many tools to use it Jul 19 12:28:31 you might want to study it first Jul 19 12:28:32 rh is wroking on a ui for that Jul 19 12:28:39 and google use it quite extensively Jul 19 12:28:43 DocScrutinizer: well lxc uses it! Jul 19 12:28:52 o.O Jul 19 12:29:01 * misc work on a project with a google sysadmin and he was not sure if he could say anything regarding cgroup for our project Jul 19 12:29:05 now really WTF lxc? Jul 19 12:29:14 DocScrutinizer: you have some reading to do :) Jul 19 12:29:31 DocScrutinizer: it's generalization of the vserver patches that never made it to mainline Jul 19 12:29:44 DocScrutinizer: now mainline has lxc, linux containers Jul 19 12:29:59 *cough* Jul 19 12:31:34 DocScrutinizer: basically a generalization of chroot Jul 19 12:31:40 DocScrutinizer: for more than just file system name space Jul 19 12:31:52 DocScrutinizer: you can e.g. have different network name space Jul 19 12:31:53 we calculated the employment statistics for the government each month, on normal unix, without cgroups :-P Jul 19 12:32:18 DocScrutinizer: of course you can do everything with a turing machine :) Jul 19 12:32:27 YEAH Jul 19 12:32:35 I don't think that's the point Jul 19 12:32:37 better do it in ASSEMBLER :-P Jul 19 12:33:03 if you can't do it in assembler, it's not worth being domne at all Jul 19 12:33:07 done* Jul 19 12:35:08 honestly, I wonder how any sane machine ever could've worked without awesome cgroups Jul 19 12:35:57 well they don't really work :) Jul 19 12:36:34 it's maybe a nice concept, and obviously you *can* change *nix* as there were new system features in all dialects and some time ago there even came BSD Jul 19 12:37:09 but what poetterin does is axing old systems for fun Jul 19 12:37:32 deliberately ignoring continuity and backwards comaptibility issues Jul 19 12:37:58 well he doesn't want to be limited by non-linux stuff Jul 19 12:38:21 I don't want him on this globe Jul 19 12:38:23 and is making it clear from the start Jul 19 12:38:31 Linux is really going forward nowadays, and going forward fast and sensibly. Jul 19 12:38:31 * DocScrutinizer too Jul 19 12:39:08 PaulFertser: have you been reading debian-devel this week? Jul 19 12:39:38 lindi-: no, but i'd appreciate a link. Jul 19 12:39:56 oh yeah, smart hackers inplementing such great stuff like security-framework/aegis and everybody goes "oooh wooow, I like the added security it gives me" IDIOTS Jul 19 12:40:03 PaulFertser: it's a long thread Jul 19 12:40:16 lindi-: subject? Jul 19 12:40:35 PaulFertser: starts from http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/07/msg00269.html Jul 19 12:41:28 lindi-: thanks! Jul 19 12:41:36 actually I MUST check if Lennart contributed to security framework, it somewhat has his signature Jul 19 12:42:13 though maybe a bit *too* smart for Lennart, bad ass smart Jul 19 12:42:16 DocScrutinizer: is that all just maemo/meego-only stuff? Jul 19 12:42:40 definitely not, security framework is mainline aiui Jul 19 12:43:34 just Nokia's variant aegis is way ahead and Nokia proprietary for now Jul 19 12:43:56 ~aegis Jul 19 12:43:57 methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 19 12:44:05 DocScrutinizer: you mean SMACK and TOMOJI? Jul 19 12:44:33 lindi-: I guess there are *many* names for it Jul 19 12:44:52 part of the concept to obfuscate the real intentions Jul 19 12:44:55 * jonwil is surprised how many pieces of aegis are actually open Jul 19 12:45:22 selinux smack tomoyo are its users if I read right Jul 19 12:45:33 aegis-builder, aegis-certman, aegis-crypto and aegis-enabler are open Jul 19 12:45:39 selinux??????? Jul 19 12:45:42 FSCK Jul 19 12:45:57 and apparmor Jul 19 12:46:03 if selinux goes security framework, they are on the dark side now Jul 19 12:46:57 http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/wiki-e/?WhatIs#comparison has a comparison matrix Jul 19 12:46:58 see, that's why I suspect poettering behind security framework. It's poettering all across linux Jul 19 12:47:29 DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure what this "security framework" is yet Jul 19 12:47:30 just like PA Jul 19 12:47:32 is it the same as LSM? Jul 19 12:47:47 it's kind of difficult to google :) Jul 19 12:49:07 DocScrutinizer: LSM would have been a better known term Jul 19 12:49:20 lindi-: go wikipedia trusted_computing Jul 19 12:49:27 DocScrutinizer: it seems at least some "maemo validator" is an LSM Jul 19 12:49:31 from there you find all the gory details Jul 19 12:49:44 DocScrutinizer: that page does not list LSM Jul 19 12:49:55 or 'security framework' Jul 19 12:51:04 lindi-: why do you think they are constantly moving, renaming, changing locations, whatnot, since err 10? years Jul 19 12:51:14 DocScrutinizer: they? Jul 19 12:51:19 nokia? Jul 19 12:51:29 I would have recognized the word LSM instantly Jul 19 12:51:31 security framework is the alternative implementation to MSSF(?) Jul 19 12:51:49 they= TC_protagonists Jul 19 12:52:39 I'm not familiar with this meego/maemo stuff Jul 19 12:52:57 wht?! TC != maemo/meego Jul 19 12:53:13 MSSF first hit is http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-platform-security/linux-mssf Jul 19 12:53:29 and security famework aka MSSF is a mainline thing aiui Jul 19 12:53:47 Mobile Simplified Security Framework (MSSF) forms the main part of Harmattan Jul 19 12:54:46 git grep MSSF -- '*.c' does not find anything Jul 19 12:54:59 sigh Jul 19 12:55:01 http://www.google.de/search?q=trusted+computing+linux Jul 19 12:55:13 DocScrutinizer: that's bit too general :) Jul 19 12:55:21 pff Jul 19 12:55:55 too general for your poor mind to see the implications on FOSS, or what? Jul 19 12:56:15 ? Jul 19 12:57:58 anyways, if you find where MSSF is in mainline it would be interesting to see how it fits to the landscape of the existing LSMs Jul 19 12:58:44 wait til meego-proper pushes it upstream Jul 19 12:59:13 see the google link above for already existing implementation details for TC in linux Jul 19 13:00:14 I've been planning to migrate to trusted grub but I don't think my hardware supports it yet Jul 19 13:00:59 the whole thing is like devil's own company, after failing to force you into a ass rape contract, now is going to take all your relatives and friends as hostages to make sure you behave Jul 19 13:02:30 you know a) aegis does NOT allow root to kill $user processes b) aegis aka MSSF CAN NOT be disabled on devices that are missing a certain certificate Jul 19 13:03:15 a) is just a random picked example of what root means on a TC device Jul 19 13:03:16 DocScrutinizer: well obviously devices that you TC without giving the owner the keys are problematic. however, the techonology can also be used for good. I don't think the answer is to not use it for good (the bad guys would just maintain the patches out-of-tree) Jul 19 13:03:44 DocScrutinizer: I think the answer is to not buy hardware where you don't get the keys. I have three openmokos, I don't buy maemo/meego stuff :) Jul 19 13:03:44 lindi-: BS, even nuclear devices can get used for good - thought Oppenheimer Jul 19 13:05:14 DocScrutinizer: well TC clearly can be used for good. I can keep my disk encryption keys there without having to worry about dictionary attacks against my passphrase :) Jul 19 13:05:47 and the most perfidious aspect is brain-damaged FOSS people even *help* to evolve SF Jul 19 13:06:06 SF? Jul 19 13:06:07 lindi-: sorry that's absolute BS Jul 19 13:06:16 please read the wiki about TC Jul 19 13:06:26 security< framework Jul 19 13:06:45 DocScrutinizer: I'm not going to read the whole wiki page no :) Jul 19 13:07:27 then don't spread FUD and nonsense about positive aspects that allegedly are unique to TC - there are exactly ZERO Jul 19 13:07:46 DocScrutinizer: having my encryption keys there is an advantage Jul 19 13:08:07 all the allegedly exiating positives already exist in less rogue implementations/concepts Jul 19 13:08:23 DocScrutinizer: can you point out to some? Jul 19 13:08:35 SElinux for example Jul 19 13:08:54 different scenario Jul 19 13:09:11 DocScrutinizer: think about a laptop with hard disk encryption Jul 19 13:09:18 please, I'm not going to hold a private lesson summarizing the content of a wiki article that's too long for you Jul 19 13:09:34 DocScrutinizer: the wiki article mentions how disk encryption software uses TPM Jul 19 13:09:36 the stuff *is* complex Jul 19 13:09:46 SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * r2459c3da3abc 10/meta-fso/recipes-freesmartphone/freesmartphone/ (6 files): meta-fso: sync SRCREVs with oe.dev Jul 19 13:10:06 you will have to read the whole page plus some more, to at least halfway wrap your head around it all Jul 19 13:10:24 DocScrutinizer: rright Jul 19 13:11:11 with disk encryption you tightly link your disk to the FRITZchip, when it breaks your data is lost Jul 19 13:11:30 DocScrutinizer: of course I make backups :) Jul 19 13:11:34 SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * rcfcec649234e 10/meta-nokia/ (2 files in 2 dirs): linux-nokia900-meego: update defconfig to build at least kernel-module-tun Jul 19 13:11:53 DocScrutinizer: my data is also lost if my cheap SSD breaks Jul 19 13:11:55 you can do the absolutely same with a USB dongle or manually entered passpharse during boot, and that won't break when your mainboard blows blue smoke Jul 19 13:12:07 lindi-: BZZZZ off topic Jul 19 13:12:19 what got backup to do with it? WTF?? Jul 19 13:12:21 DocScrutinizer: I don't want extra dongles Jul 19 13:13:02 DocScrutinizer: what do you mean by usb dongle? usb flash drive? Jul 19 13:13:16 READ THE WIKI!!! Jul 19 13:13:27 no I won't now Jul 19 13:13:46 I've read the at least two times in the last 10 years Jul 19 13:14:03 then stop pestering me with questions that are answered there, or there are links to the answers there Jul 19 13:14:19 DocScrutinizer: it does not mention usb Jul 19 13:14:36 lindi-: you're stating to nag Jul 19 13:14:42 starting Jul 19 13:14:42 eh? Jul 19 13:17:58 even the wiki page acknowleges that it can also be used for good "It is also possible to build open source stack of trusted modules, leaving for the security chip only the task to guard against unauthorized modifications" Jul 19 13:23:59 yes, and this is exactly the part of TC you can implement in better ways that don't allow the manufacturer to own your device Jul 19 13:24:25 without this friggin TCPM welded into your PC hardware Jul 19 13:25:12 as then the chip is not worth anything, you as well can implement this on application processor Jul 19 13:25:30 and it has been done Jul 19 13:25:32 DocScrutinizer: I'm not quite sure if you understand how TPM is used in disk encryption Jul 19 13:25:40 DocScrutinizer: I don't see how you can do the same without TPM Jul 19 13:25:55 believe me, I pretty good understand each aspect of how it works Jul 19 13:25:56 did you mean that I should always boot from a usb flash drive? Jul 19 13:26:46 lindi-: basically your SIM is a TCPM chip Jul 19 13:27:03 your chip on EC/credit card is a TCPM chip Jul 19 13:27:39 (or ideally should be ;-P) Jul 19 13:27:46 DocScrutinizer: and I should use those? Jul 19 13:28:10 you can even implement the same algorithms in userland process Jul 19 13:28:26 as long as you make sure your kernel isn't compromised Jul 19 13:28:44 DocScrutinizer: the kernel has to be stored unencrypted on my laptop so somebody might tamper with it Jul 19 13:28:44 there's basically no difference between TCPM and PGP Jul 19 13:29:17 with TPM I can make sure that only unmodified kernel has access to the encryption keys Jul 19 13:29:59 no you can't Jul 19 13:30:12 DocScrutinizer: why not? ;) Jul 19 13:30:38 as it's not a immanent property of TC to sign kernels Jul 19 13:30:49 ? Jul 19 13:30:51 SW is doing that Jul 19 13:31:13 DocScrutinizer: do you know the SKINIT instrution? Jul 19 13:31:31 (amd64 architecture) Jul 19 13:31:36 lindi-: I'm bored to hell discussing this topic, sorry Jul 19 13:31:58 come on, I eventually even read parts of the wiki :P Jul 19 13:32:21 fact is the ONLY benefit of a FRITZchip is user can't access the endorsement key issued by hw manufacturer Jul 19 13:32:31 I disagree Jul 19 13:32:34 everything else can get implemented by alternative means Jul 19 13:32:45 or at least I don't understand how Jul 19 13:34:01 it's as simple as that: everything the user can do also can be done by a rogue malware. So the only increase in security from TC is when you deprive user of some of his permissions Jul 19 13:34:24 DocScrutinizer: the malware has to first get to my encrypted disk :) Jul 19 13:34:32 only exception: keying in a passphrase that's printed on the box only Jul 19 13:34:46 lindi-: nonsense Jul 19 13:35:02 how TPM can make sure that only unmodified kernel can access the encryption keys: Jul 19 13:35:16 OMG Jul 19 13:35:18 1) the keys are stored in the TPM (let's leave out how they were put there) Jul 19 13:35:43 2) hash of the kernel is stored in the TPM and associated with the key (let's also leave out how the initial setup was done here) Jul 19 13:36:02 3) the system boots. If grub asks the TPM for the key it says you can't have it Jul 19 13:36:11 pfff Jul 19 13:36:24 nobody ever asks TPM for any key Jul 19 13:36:40 well that's simplicifation, you might ask the TPM to decrypt a key Jul 19 13:36:48 you ask TPM to uncrypt things Jul 19 13:36:49 so that the key in TPM never has to leave the TPM Jul 19 13:37:07 well, let's say the TPM has the key that is used to encrypt the key that is used to encrypt the disk :) Jul 19 13:37:48 4) so, when you execute the SKINIT instruction and give it a memory area as an argument it: a) calculates the checksum of the memory area b) sends this checksum to the TPM c) begins executing code in the memory area Jul 19 13:37:58 and it's duty of rom bootloader to hash and verify the GRUB/$random-1st-level bootloader Jul 19 13:38:06 5) if the checksum of the memory area matches what is in TPM then the TPM will let you operate on the key Jul 19 13:38:16 DocScrutinizer: that's the static root of trust model Jul 19 13:38:21 DocScrutinizer: I'm talking about the dynamic root of trust Jul 19 13:38:28 and you won't win anything with your funny method sketched above Jul 19 13:38:29 I know that nokia uses this static one Jul 19 13:39:05 but it doesn't really work on x86 when you have all sorts of untrusted bios code flying around Jul 19 13:39:14 not to mention PCI/ISA/PCIe stuff Jul 19 13:39:37 DocScrutinizer: which step is the most badly explained one? ;) Jul 19 13:40:15 sorry, you managed to spoil my mood now, I'm off - it's simply too boring to discuss with TC-protagonists that deny the immanent evil of the concept Jul 19 13:41:23 I do agree that it can be used for evil and will be used for evil Jul 19 13:41:49 some people would have said the same of computer :/ Jul 19 13:54:33 lindi-: do not you think tpm gives the evil vendors too much of a too easy opportunity to abuse the end-users? Do you think the legitimate usecases compensate for that? Jul 19 13:54:51 PaulFertser: I am not sure Jul 19 13:55:36 PaulFertser: but I don't think we can stop them in any other way than not buying such products and explaining others why such products are not nice Jul 19 13:55:50 PaulFertser: saying that all TPM is evil does not really help the goal much Jul 19 13:56:54 lindi-: when some loosy vendor invents his own scheme, it's often possible to curcumvent it. But if the really knowledgable folks develop an easy-to-use framework it's like giving the enemies a powerful weapon without leaving yourself anything to defense with. Jul 19 13:57:32 PaulFertser: that sounds like the security through obscurity argument? Jul 19 13:57:50 PaulFertser: the vendors would improve their scheme over time anyway Jul 19 13:58:15 PaulFertser: we are talking about quite large and knowledgeable vendors, those whose employees already write stuff for linux Jul 19 13:59:46 lindi-: it kinda sounds like that indeed. But dealing with stupid vendors it might work nevertheless. They might simply lack resources or motivation to do the real protection. But when it's all mainline, documented and ready to use, the temptation for them is higher. Jul 19 14:00:08 PaulFertser: but it's already there, can't do much about that :) Jul 19 14:00:14 PaulFertser: I look forward to using it for good Jul 19 14:00:40 lindi-: sounds reasonable indeed :) Jul 19 14:01:07 PaulFertser: then you can at least show people the difference between good and evil use Jul 19 14:01:43 well, there is already TPM for iphone, or at least, it look very similar to me Jul 19 14:02:06 PaulFertser: have I already advertised qubes for you? ;) Jul 19 14:02:30 lindi-: no, not yet :) Jul 19 14:02:48 lindi-: i'm on it Jul 19 14:02:57 lindi-: btw, are you happy with your current irc client now? Jul 19 14:03:14 PaulFertser: it's this project to create a desktop operating system with strong isolation between application domains. http://qubes-os.org/Architecture.html Jul 19 14:03:18 PaulFertser: quite happy Jul 19 14:03:32 I've found new features that make it work even better on small screens Jul 19 14:03:58 lindi-: have you already documented that somewhere? Jul 19 14:04:07 some early screenshots only Jul 19 14:04:52 lindi-: ok, please keep us informed :) (how's it called, i've managed to forgot already?) Jul 19 14:05:00 PaulFertser: quassel Jul 19 14:06:22 I also learned about a new openstreetmap routing program, monav Jul 19 14:06:30 lindi-: (qubes) thanks a lot, an interesting read Jul 19 14:06:31 a lot more user friendly than navit Jul 19 14:06:49 (quassel, navit and monav are all in debian) Jul 19 14:07:00 (qubes stuff is not yet) Jul 19 14:10:16 Hm, it looks like monav can really turn my FR into a turn-by-turn gps navigator. Jul 19 14:11:37 PaulFertser: navit can already do that but it's somewhat difficult to configure :-) Jul 19 14:11:55 PaulFertser: see http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20110718.142313.8fe393d3.en.html Jul 19 14:12:04 PaulFertser: when I posted that I got a reply that I should use monav :P Jul 19 14:15:02 PaulFertser: you are not coming to debconf by any chance? ;) Jul 19 14:17:14 lindi-: :( Jul 19 14:19:36 lindi-: but is navit really usable if you say install FR on a car's windshield and expect it to guide you through a city you've never been to? Jul 19 14:20:15 PaulFertser: I've used it like that yes Jul 19 14:21:09 lindi-: but FR's screen is unreadable in sunlight anyway :/ . Have you used any TTS engine? Jul 19 14:21:34 PaulFertser: TTS of course yes Jul 19 14:21:44 PaulFertser: suopuhe is the finnish speech synthesis program Jul 19 14:21:59 written in scheme by the university people. it's in debian Jul 19 14:22:03 bit slow :P Jul 19 14:29:49 lindi-: btw, what are you using nowadays for your web-browsing needs? Jul 19 14:30:11 PaulFertser: on FR? Jul 19 14:30:57 lindi-: no, on your laptop or desktop. Jul 19 14:31:23 iceweasel and chromium-browser Jul 19 14:31:42 lindi-: i see... I'm still on emacs-w3m mostly. Jul 19 14:32:13 on FR it's mostly elinks + midori Jul 19 14:32:26 since the chromium-browser bugs still need work Jul 19 15:29:52 hi everyone Jul 19 16:15:19 JaMa: hello! hope your vacations were great! Jul 19 16:17:17 yeah! Jul 19 16:18:43 :) Jul 19 16:33:53 freesmartphone.org: 03angelo 07angelox/testing * r0a33546cf3f7 10aurora/aurora-applications/app-settings/ (AboutAuroraPage.qml AboutPage.qml qmldir): aurora-settings: add About Aurora page and About general page Jul 19 16:57:45 JaMa: do you have an idea about this issue http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/1452 cant ssh into shr on pre2 => "PTY allocation request failed on channel 0" Jul 19 16:59:23 some months ago someone had the same issue Jul 19 17:07:06 GarthPS, I was hit by this bug on the fr during the weekend but my usual suspect is I and reflashed form shr-project Jul 19 17:07:34 I was testing aurora and installed a lot of qt stuff Jul 19 17:09:07 GarthPS: I guss /dev/pts is not mouted Jul 19 17:09:09 mounted Jul 19 17:09:37 also noticed that vala-terminal did't work but after reflash I cannot repeat it Jul 19 17:23:42 morphis: hello Jul 19 17:27:15 morphis , morphis_ : ping Jul 19 17:32:12 mickeyl or GarthPS: can answer my ping :) Jul 19 18:13:25 mickeyl GarthPS: Someone made this,what do you think? http://pynell.com/images/aurora_icon.png Jul 19 18:19:28 angelox|laptop: ~ Jul 19 18:21:23 GarthPS: What do you think about that be something like aurora's logotype? Jul 19 18:21:28 or icon :) Jul 19 18:22:23 angelox|laptop: I don't know what ideas behind th aurora name that mickeyl or morphis wanted to give so I can't realy help here Jul 19 18:22:43 JaMa: ok thx I will look at this Jul 19 18:23:11 GarthPS: Same here,but i liked anyway the icon :) Jul 19 18:27:45 which one is morphis? morphis or morphis_ :) Jul 19 18:53:00 angelox|n900: this one :) Jul 19 18:56:21 morphis: what do you think about this: http://www.pynell.com/images/aurora_icon.png ? Jul 19 18:56:32 my friend made it :) Jul 19 18:56:48 angelox|n900: looks good Jul 19 18:56:51 angelox|n900: as logo? Jul 19 18:57:49 yes Jul 19 18:58:10 if you want she can make a blue or green one :) Jul 19 18:58:18 looks more like a app icon Jul 19 18:58:34 but I like the style of the A Jul 19 18:59:28 icon of settings app maybe ? Jul 19 19:00:46 hm Jul 19 19:00:59 the icon of the settings app should be more specific for the settings app Jul 19 19:01:16 hmm yes Jul 19 19:01:17 but if she has some free time we can get a nice logo from this first darft Jul 19 19:01:33 if you have a app icon it should always tell the user what the app is about Jul 19 19:02:08 yes..maybe we can create another application only for the icon :) hehe Jul 19 19:02:28 let mw ask she about time Jul 19 19:02:34 s/mw/me/ Jul 19 19:02:34 angelox|n900 meant: let me ask she about time Jul 19 19:02:50 :) Jul 19 19:07:07 morphis: she has time,but she needs know what we should change Jul 19 19:07:25 ok Jul 19 19:07:34 1. the icons looks not like a logo Jul 19 19:07:51 and it would be very great if she can try to make a logo for aurora Jul 19 19:07:58 as this is something we need first Jul 19 19:08:06 2. the logo should after decent colors Jul 19 19:08:33 look at the winner of the shr logo contest: http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/LogoContest Jul 19 19:08:52 so it should be no big block like the icon Jul 19 19:09:00 something that integrates with the background Jul 19 19:09:12 and the background should be dark most times Jul 19 19:09:12 hmm Jul 19 19:10:08 look at some logos like gnome: http://www.gnome.org/ ; webos: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/WebOS_logo.svg Jul 19 19:10:26 android: http://media.bestofmicro.com/Android-Logo,3-9-225621-3.jpg Jul 19 19:10:40 the logo should tell something about aurora Jul 19 19:11:01 not too playful, serious is better Jul 19 19:11:05 and what aurora wants tell about itself? Jul 19 19:11:32 that it's a simple approach for a mobile phone Jul 19 19:11:49 personally I like the shr logo very much Jul 19 19:12:09 especially this one: http://shr-project.org/trac/attachment/wiki/LogoContest/alphalog-shr-2.png Jul 19 19:12:31 the shr logo is awesome :) Jul 19 19:12:39 i too,but i didn't understand why they didn't choose it :) Jul 19 19:12:44 i'm asking she to join here Jul 19 19:13:10 TAsn: :) Jul 19 19:13:16 angelox|laptop: that would be great Jul 19 19:13:23 as we need great artists today :) Jul 19 19:13:34 as we're all developers and bad artists Jul 19 19:14:07 :) Jul 19 19:14:20 there's only a problem,she takes too much time to answer me haha Jul 19 19:18:36 Hi Jul 19 19:19:24 Hi Vivialive Jul 19 19:19:33 morphis: now you can tell aurora stuff to she :) Jul 19 19:19:43 hey Vivialive Jul 19 19:20:00 I hear from angelox|laptop you are the one who made the first aurora icon Jul 19 19:20:00 hi Jul 19 19:20:15 yeah Jul 19 19:20:39 I already talked with angelox|laptop about it Jul 19 19:20:51 in general what we need is a great logo for aurora Jul 19 19:21:04 something that identifies the project Jul 19 19:21:19 something like this one: http://shr-project.org/trac/attachment/wiki/LogoContest/alphalog-shr-2.png Jul 19 19:21:24 (which I personally like very much) Jul 19 19:22:05 i see Jul 19 19:22:20 I don't know how skilled you are and how much and motivation you have to work on this one for us Jul 19 19:22:28 but it would be very nice if you can do Jul 19 19:23:02 what's the point? Jul 19 19:23:33 did not like the icon I created? Jul 19 19:24:26 the problem with the icon is it is not a real logo in my opinion. it looks more as a application icon Jul 19 19:24:33 you can place on the homescreen or desktop Jul 19 19:24:43 I like it, thats not the question Jul 19 19:25:34 then, as expected to be the logo? Jul 19 19:27:03 you mean your icon? Jul 19 19:27:33 yes Jul 19 19:27:42 yes and no Jul 19 19:28:24 describe what you really want Jul 19 19:29:36 first when I looked at the icon I thought that it is a good start for a logo and then realized that we need one for the project Jul 19 19:29:44 I want a logo for the Aurora project. Jul 19 19:30:48 but I don't have any real idea how it should look like Jul 19 19:31:09 understood, but from what I did not understand Jul 19 19:31:25 that logo you made looks more like an icon for an application,not like a logo,aurora isn't only an application,it is an UI,like Android is for Android phones.. Jul 19 19:31:39 it's more Jul 19 19:31:56 it's a operating system like android, webos, windows phone 7, ios Jul 19 19:32:07 all of them have a logo Jul 19 19:32:12 also the SHR project has one Jul 19 19:32:22 all of them are specific in some way Jul 19 19:32:32 hi larsc Weiss Jul 19 19:32:44 and we need a logo that suites for the idea behind aurora Jul 19 19:32:44 GarthPS, I've an idea Jul 19 19:33:03 GNUtoo|laptop: heyho Jul 19 19:33:16 GNUtoo|laptop: you got my mail? Jul 19 19:33:44 yes Jul 19 19:33:47 I'll rewrite Jul 19 19:33:52 but I'm on hollidays Jul 19 19:33:56 :) Jul 19 19:34:02