**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 29 02:59:57 2011
Dec 29 08:00:26 <CIA-82> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07shr-chroot * r3b72afcc53a6 10/ (164 files in 24 dirs): system upgrade
Dec 29 08:02:32 <CIA-82> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07shr-makefile * r2e0261b5557d 10/conf/shr-core/bblayers.conf: shr-core: add meta-osmocombb layer
Dec 29 08:05:18 <CIA-82> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * rcc0e5cf1ee8c 10/meta-osmocombb/README: meta-osmocombb: fix README
Dec 29 14:48:40 <paulk> could anyone help me setup alsa on nexus s?
Dec 29 17:55:58 <antrik> paulk: as neither GNUtoo nor morphis are online right now, probably not :-)
Dec 29 18:45:23 <JaMa|Off> nschle85: hi, already in Berlin?
Dec 29 18:53:11 <nschle85> yes all fine
Dec 29 18:54:46 * JaMa|Off -> home, bbl
Dec 29 18:55:18 <nschle85> 4 hours prague berlin
Dec 29 18:55:28 <nschle85> bye
Dec 29 19:27:49 * pespin thinking about buying http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_xperia_mini_pro-3713.php
Dec 29 20:05:41 <antrik> pespin: I thought about it as well... it's a little small for web browsing; but it's the cheapest Android device with keyboard that I'm aware of... which makes it a pretty interesting platform I'd say. Qualcomm chipset though :-(
Dec 29 20:09:46 <pespin> antrik, I was first looking for htc desire z, but it's unavailable now.
Dec 29 21:38:31 <Slyon_> hey
Dec 29 21:38:41 <JaMa|Off> hey
Dec 29 21:39:00 <Slyon_> JaMa|Off, could we add the package "linux-firmware" to our feeds? it's already in oe-core and linux-firmware-sd8686 is needed for the gta04
Dec 29 21:40:07 <JaMa|Off> why not add it to MACHINE_RRECOMMENDS then?
Dec 29 21:40:30 <JaMa|Off> so it will be also pulled to each gta04 image?
Dec 29 21:40:41 <Slyon_> JaMa|Off, i'd like to do this. but i guess gnutoo wouldn't be ok with this, as it isn't free software
Dec 29 21:41:13 <JaMa|Off> I see, I'm fine with it in task-shr-feed
Dec 29 21:41:41 <Slyon_> maybe we should add it to the feeds for now and discuss it with mrmoku, mickeyl and the others 
Dec 29 21:42:04 <JaMa|Off> good plan, do you want me to add it or will you?
Dec 29 21:43:07 <Slyon_> i can do it
Dec 29 21:46:27 <CIA-82> SHR: 03lukasmaerdian 07meta-smartphone * r4c6ee69ed6d9 10/meta-shr/recipes-shr/tasks/task-shr-feed.bb: meta-shr: task-shr-feed: add linux-firmware
Dec 29 21:49:51 <JaMa|Off> Slyon_: better to bump PR too, but now it's ok because mcnavi is broken now anyway
Dec 29 21:50:02 <Slyon_> oh, ok
Dec 29 21:50:05 <Slyon_> sorry
Dec 29 21:50:16 <JaMa|Off> np
Dec 29 21:56:47 * JaMa|Off bisecting efl to see when shr_elm_softkey got broken
Dec 29 21:57:08 <JaMa|Off> and it was even before r66164 :/
Dec 29 21:58:00 <JaMa|Off> r65800 aka 1.1.0 is working..
Dec 29 21:59:59 <Slyon_> hm..
Dec 29 22:01:22 <JaMa|Off> only 600 revisions to go :)
Dec 29 22:04:35 <Slyon_> heh
Dec 29 22:36:44 <GNUtoo> http://gnutoo.homelinux.org/downloads/shr/Videos/gta04_cards.avi
Dec 29 22:36:53 <GNUtoo> sorry for the blur-ness
Dec 29 22:40:02 <GNUtoo> JaMa|Off, hi
Dec 29 22:40:15 <GNUtoo> is there some users here?
Dec 29 22:43:33 <JaMa|Off> i
Dec 29 22:43:34 <JaMa|Off> hi
Dec 29 22:47:32 <Slyon_> GNUtoo, is this video really only 1 sec?
Dec 29 22:47:50 <GNUtoo> no
Dec 29 22:47:52 <GNUtoo> not at all
Dec 29 22:47:58 <Slyon_> 4.4mb?
Dec 29 22:48:17 <GNUtoo> ah wrong video maybe
Dec 29 22:48:20 <GNUtoo> sorry
Dec 29 22:48:56 <Slyon_> the one you posted above has only 1sec
Dec 29 22:48:58 <GNUtoo> anyway you already have a video
Dec 29 22:49:06 <GNUtoo> yes I just found out
Dec 29 22:52:01 <GNUtoo> I guess I should compress it
Dec 29 22:52:05 <GNUtoo> it's 100M
Dec 29 22:52:10 <GNUtoo> *about 100M
Dec 29 22:52:16 <GNUtoo> I'm scp-ing the video
Dec 29 22:55:09 <GNUtoo> done
Dec 29 23:01:39 <Slyon_> GNUtoo, btw: i added linux-firmware to our feeds. would you be ok with adding it to the gta04-shr-image directly, so wifi works out of the box?
Dec 29 23:05:52 <GNUtoo> according to paulk many possible users don't want that firmware
Dec 29 23:06:08 <GNUtoo> maybe paulk could give more details
Dec 29 23:06:20 <paulk> on openmoko-fr.org, many were unhappy about the non-free firmware
Dec 29 23:06:49 <paulk> and now that GTA04 has support for data, some users may want not to use the non-free firmware
Dec 29 23:06:57 <paulk> (data via 3G I mean)
Dec 29 23:07:14 <paulk> for instance a lot of Replicant users don't use the wifi firmwares as there is working 3G
Dec 29 23:07:29 <paulk> while the kernel we use let them free to install it
Dec 29 23:08:06 <Slyon_> paulk, are there a lot of replicant user using the gta04?
Dec 29 23:08:36 <paulk> Slyon_, Replicant isn't supported yet as I don't have a device
Dec 29 23:08:40 <GNUtoo> paulk, would need a gta04 to port replicant on it
Dec 29 23:08:55 <paulk> but replicant users are seeking freedom
Dec 29 23:09:02 <GNUtoo> but he wanted to illustrate the point that the kind of people buying the gta04 care about freedom
Dec 29 23:09:12 <paulk> so they'll indeed be interested in having freedom
Dec 29 23:09:25 <GNUtoo> else they would be buying some random android or GNU/Linux phone
Dec 29 23:09:31 <paulk> indeed
Dec 29 23:10:16 <GNUtoo> GNU/Linux phone beeing palm, or nokia phones
Dec 29 23:10:23 <paulk> personally, I care about freedom and I sometimes decide to use a non-free WiFi firmware but I think it shouldn't be included by default in anything
Dec 29 23:10:49 <paulk> as it's taking the decision to use non-free firmware for the user
Dec 29 23:11:20 <paulk> (I figure this out somehow like imposing the decision to the user)
Dec 29 23:11:32 <Slyon_> yeah, that's true... but we have also the sort of users, who just want to use their wifi and would be happy if it just works when they boot their shr
Dec 29 23:11:47 <paulk> we could manage to make it easy for them too
Dec 29 23:12:00 <GNUtoo> like trough shr-wizard
Dec 29 23:12:08 <Slyon_> it's already pretty easy: opkg install linux-firmware-sd8686
Dec 29 23:12:16 <JaMa|Off> ah shr_elm_softkey was broken before r66019 already.. next tomorrow, gnight all
Dec 29 23:12:21 <misc> that's the same problem for all distributions, and there isn't much good solution
Dec 29 23:12:33 <Slyon_> JaMa|Off, gn8!
Dec 29 23:12:36 <misc> either decide on installing, not installing, or asking the question to users
Dec 29 23:12:50 <paulk> I like the way debian is doing things
Dec 29 23:13:11 <Slyon_> paulk, well debian just changed in this topic
Dec 29 23:13:29 <paulk> you mean very recently?
Dec 29 23:13:34 <GNUtoo> really?
Dec 29 23:14:18 <paulk> as far as I know, it's with the non-free firmware on a repo not officially part of the debian project and not enabled by default
Dec 29 23:14:34 <paulk> what is it now?
Dec 29 23:14:52 <slyon> well they don't include firmwares anymore
Dec 29 23:14:57 <slyon> in previous releases they did
Dec 29 23:15:01 <paulk> yes I know
Dec 29 23:15:07 <paulk> I like the way they do things "now"
Dec 29 23:15:10 <paulk> since debian 6
Dec 29 23:15:25 <slyon> hmm
Dec 29 23:18:35 <paulk> so eventually, shr-wizard could configure this external repo and opkg install the firmwares
Dec 29 23:19:45 <paulk> even though it's particularly a pain in the case of WiFi firmwares
Dec 29 23:20:04 <slyon> paulk, yeah that would probably the best way... but it requires quite some work. as we don't have networking at first boot
Dec 29 23:20:08 <paulk> (since you have to download the files that permit you to access the net)
Dec 29 23:20:15 <paulk> ok
Dec 29 23:20:24 <paulk> not even wired USB net?
Dec 29 23:20:34 <paulk> for nexus s, it works at first boot
Dec 29 23:20:52 <slyon> usb-net didn't work without manually brining up the usb0 interface for me
Dec 29 23:21:00 <slyon> (throuh serial)
Dec 29 23:21:06 <paulk> ouch
Dec 29 23:21:28 <paulk> I think this should be considered as a general issue for the device, shouldn't it?
Dec 29 23:21:28 <slyon> probably a bug on my side... we have to test
Dec 29 23:21:31 <GNUtoo> I guess JaMa|Off could handle that
Dec 29 23:21:47 <slyon> if it works on nexus s
Dec 29 23:21:58 <GNUtoo> we then have to move the usbnet init script
Dec 29 23:23:06 <slyon> yes, we have to figure out one way or another... but not today. I'll leave now.
Dec 29 23:23:09 <slyon> good night!
Dec 29 23:23:21 <GNUtoo> good night
Dec 29 23:23:24 <paulk> gn8 :)
Dec 29 23:23:39 <GNUtoo> paulk, also we could make a bbclass that prevent non-free software to get in the feeds
Dec 29 23:23:54 <GNUtoo> that would be so great
Dec 29 23:24:02 <paulk> I don't know bitbake, but I gues this is a good idea
Dec 29 23:24:20 <GNUtoo> it would be a bbclass, not in bitbake but in openembedded-core
Dec 29 23:24:30 <GNUtoo> python code still
Dec 29 23:24:38 <paulk> ok
Dec 29 23:24:43 <GNUtoo> it would work with a whitelist of licenses
Dec 29 23:24:44 <paulk> I thought "bb" was bitbake
Dec 29 23:25:10 <GNUtoo> yes but bbclass is in openembedded-core/meta/classes
Dec 29 23:25:16 <GNUtoo> it's like the gentoo classes
Dec 29 23:25:27 <GNUtoo> it's not part of emerge but part of the metadata
Dec 29 23:26:11 <GNUtoo> I'll go too
Dec 29 23:26:14 <GNUtoo> bye
Dec 29 23:26:15 <paulk> ok
Dec 29 23:26:20 <paulk> bye GNUtoo!
Dec 29 23:26:56 <paulk> anyone left?
Dec 29 23:27:08 <misc> me
Dec 29 23:27:19 <paulk> :)
Dec 29 23:27:53 <misc> in fact, for firmware, the long term answer is z free firmware
Dec 29 23:28:07 <paulk> indeed
Dec 29 23:28:21 <paulk> GNUtoo wanted to begin the work
Dec 29 23:28:40 <paulk> unfortunately, that's way more than I can do
Dec 29 23:29:30 <misc> there was two days ago a talk about debugging the firmware of a 3g key
Dec 29 23:29:40 <paulk> qualcomm yeah
Dec 29 23:29:41 <paulk> I read it
Dec 29 23:29:49 <paulk> (on CCC website)
Dec 29 23:30:02 <paulk> that's also very interesting
Dec 29 23:30:11 <paulk> as qualcomm MSM chipsets are the worth
Dec 29 23:30:13 <misc> you have seen the video ?
Dec 29 23:30:15 <paulk> worse*
Dec 29 23:30:22 <paulk> no, is it somewhere already?
Dec 29 23:30:32 <paulk> I would be very interested in seeing it
Dec 29 23:30:33 <misc> on youtube
Dec 29 23:30:39 <paulk> nice
Dec 29 23:30:51 <paulk> though, just like for OsmocomBB, it's a very long term solution
Dec 29 23:31:25 <paulk> we cannot write baseband software that would work find and be legal in a few months
Dec 29 23:31:31 <paulk> work fine*
Dec 29 23:31:36 <paulk> damn I'm tired
Dec 29 23:31:54 <misc> at least, we could explain why we need free firmware
Dec 29 23:32:07 <paulk> for qualcomm MSM chipsets, it's very clear
Dec 29 23:32:09 <paulk> it controls:
Dec 29 23:32:12 <paulk> - RAM
Dec 29 23:32:15 <paulk> - GPS
Dec 29 23:32:20 <paulk> - AUDIO
Dec 29 23:32:24 <paulk> - NAND
Dec 29 23:32:25 <paulk> etc
Dec 29 23:32:30 <paulk> (on HTC phones)
Dec 29 23:32:54 <paulk> that's why we decided to stop working on HTC phones on Replicant
Dec 29 23:32:54 <misc> yeah but maybe more straightforward examples
Dec 29 23:33:26 <misc> like 'printer firmware lies to you about ink level'
Dec 29 23:33:42 <paulk> ok
Dec 29 23:33:49 <paulk> here it's a bit hard to know
Dec 29 23:34:08 <paulk> (you can't listen to what's going on between the operator and the phone)
Dec 29 23:34:24 <paulk> maybe the operator asks for GPS position via data, maybe not
Dec 29 23:34:42 <misc> yep
Dec 29 23:34:48 <lindi-> nokia 9110 won't let you play audio files unless you have GSM coverage :)
Dec 29 23:34:55 <paulk> lol
Dec 29 23:34:57 <paulk> nice one
Dec 29 23:35:41 <misc> or for wifi, the mesh mode of olpc is a nice thing but we cannot replicate it because thzt's not free
Dec 29 23:36:24 <paulk> ok
Dec 29 23:37:03 <misc> i think too much people do not see issues with firmware 
Dec 29 23:38:01 <paulk> yes indeed
Dec 29 23:38:28 <paulk> it can also be a format issue
Dec 29 23:38:31 <paulk> like for nexus s GPS
Dec 29 23:38:47 <lindi-> misc: my personal problem list:  http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/firmware/free-firmware.txt
Dec 29 23:38:51 <paulk> we cannot add support for it via free stuff because its protocol is unknown
Dec 29 23:39:36 <paulk> that's great!
Dec 29 23:40:45 <paulk> mhh it's late
Dec 29 23:40:52 <paulk> I'm leaving
Dec 29 23:40:54 <paulk> bye!
Dec 29 23:41:01 <misc> same here :-)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 30 02:59:57 2011