**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 06 03:00:01 2012
May 06 04:55:52 <alabd> Good day all , have flashed http://build.shr-project.org/shr-2012.01/ on fr , but it does not load properly , after clicking on home icon , it does not load desktop icons ...
May 06 04:56:28 <alabd> is this testing version or unstable version ?
May 06 07:35:42 <jake42> alabd: its a long standing bug
May 06 07:36:07 <CIA-17> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * re8e2ea0cf461 10/meta-shr/recipes-support/xchat/ (xchat-2.8.8/glib-2.32.patch xchat_2.8.8.bb): xchat: fix build with glib-2.32
May 06 07:36:13 <CIA-17> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * r1eceb9e62bfa 10/meta-shr/recipes-sato/claws-mail/ (claws-mail-3.6.1/glib-2.32.patch claws-mail_3.6.1.bb): claws-mail: fix build with glib-2.32
May 06 07:36:14 <CIA-17> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * r71e2240f5870 10/meta-shr/recipes-support/opensync/libsyncml_0.5.4.bb: libsyncml: RRECOMMEND libsoup-2.4
May 06 07:36:14 <CIA-17> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * rc7eb1b5d96a0 10/meta-shr/recipes-sato/claws-mail/ (sylpheed/glib-2.32.patch sylpheed_2.7.1.bb): sylpheed: fix build with glib-2.32
May 06 07:36:49 <jake42> workaround: hit the 4th button in the top menu bar 3 (or so) times
May 06 08:56:42 <CIA-17> SHR: 03Martin.Jansa 07meta-smartphone * r9c45467120d5 10/meta-openmoko/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-openmoko.inc: linux-openmoko: create firmware directory at the beginning of do_install
May 06 10:10:34 <alabd> Good day all 
May 06 10:10:42 <alabd> what do you install for JRE on shr
May 06 10:16:27 <jake42> alabd: about the missing icons. workaround: hit the 4th button in the top menu bar 3 (or so) times
May 06 11:26:59 <GarthPS> hi guys
May 06 11:27:28 <GarthPS> is there any changes around ssh under shr ? 
May 06 11:27:29 <GarthPS> ssh root@192.168.7.2
May 06 11:27:29 <GarthPS> ssh: connect to host 192.168.7.2 port 22: No route to host
May 06 12:40:16 <alabd> jake42: thanks , yes 
May 06 12:40:38 <alabd> problem has been solved with it ..
May 06 12:41:14 <alabd> GarthPS: did u solved your problem 
May 06 13:20:05 <GarthPS> alabd: nope (but currently I have rebooted under other distro, but if you have some clue..)
May 06 14:21:52 <Martix> rah: were you successful contacting Openmoko infrastructure admin?
May 06 14:25:01 <pabs3> he was
May 06 14:28:46 <Martix> pabs3: and what is result?
May 06 14:31:41 <pabs3> not sure of the latest
May 06 15:02:11 <rah> Martix: the openmoko infrastructure admin will not allow his contact details to be shared
May 06 15:02:39 <rah> Martix: DocScrutinizer is the liason to the infrastructure admin
May 06 15:03:19 <rah> Martix: I have heard nothing further from Sean Moss-Pultz, the infrastructure admin, or DocScrutinizer
May 06 15:03:35 <Martix> ok, any news regarding docs. and svn.openmoko.org?
May 06 15:03:42 <rah> no, no news
May 06 15:03:52 <rah> DocScrutinizer: what's happening about docs.openmoko.org?
May 06 15:04:07 <Martix> I'm worried about wiki, which is most valuable source of informations I think
May 06 15:04:12 <rah> indeed
May 06 15:04:39 <DocScrutinizer> wiki got mirrored by me some years ago :-D
May 06 15:05:02 <DocScrutinizer> also I think wiki still working, no?
May 06 15:05:10 <rah> DocScrutinizer: wiki is indeed still working
May 06 15:05:16 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: how? with dumps or just latest version pages using wget?
May 06 15:05:25 <DocScrutinizer> wget
May 06 15:05:28 <DocScrutinizer> a PITA
May 06 15:05:39 <rah> DocScrutinizer: have you made a mirror (ie, something which is continually updated) or just a backup?
May 06 15:06:01 <lindi-> my mvs checkout of the wiki is at http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/wiki/
May 06 15:06:31 <rah> DocScrutinizer: could you ask the infrastructure admin to make the wiki data files available for mirroring?
May 06 15:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> not possible
May 06 15:07:17 <Martix> lindi-: great, this can be imported in new mediawiki?
May 06 15:07:17 <DocScrutinizer> it's a mysql database and I got told those are not compatible even across machines of same processor and kernel/mysql version
May 06 15:08:04 <lindi-> Martix: no idea, mvs is not maintained afaik
May 06 15:08:13 <rah> DocScrutinizer: mysql databases can be dumped to transferrable files though
May 06 15:08:24 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: I mean something like http://dumps.wikimedia.org/
May 06 15:08:39 <rah> DocScrutinizer: could you ask the infrastructure admin to make the wiki data available for mirroring?
May 06 15:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> I did, answer was >see above>
May 06 15:10:18 <rah> DocScrutinizer: there are lots of things that you could be referring to
May 06 15:10:29 <rah> DocScrutinizer: which of the above was the answer?
May 06 15:10:33 <rah> DocScrutinizer: that it is impossible?
May 06 15:10:36 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 06 15:10:40 <rah> DocScrutinizer: that is false
May 06 15:10:47 <DocScrutinizer> fine
May 06 15:10:47 <rah> DocScrutinizer: it is not impossible
May 06 15:11:24 <DocScrutinizer> God!!!!
May 06 15:11:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen roh
May 06 15:11:34 <apt> roh is currently on #qi-hardware. Has said a total of 55 messages. Is idling for 2d 2h 19m 40s, last said: 'real pros do tripple buffer ;)'.
May 06 15:11:38 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: Wikipedia provides dumps and wiki.openmoko.org runs MediaWiki as well
May 06 15:11:44 <rah> DocScrutinizer: could you please ask the infrastructure admin to explain why he believes it is impossible to provide a dump of the wiki?
May 06 15:15:51 <rah> DocScrutinizer: are you saying now that we should use a proceedure that deviates from the proceedure that you have previously declared should be used?
May 06 15:16:48 <DocScrutinizer> you're free to use whatever procedure you feel might work - you're doing that anyway
May 06 15:17:03 <rah> I'm doing what you've told me to do
May 06 15:17:20 <rah> using the admin-trac and if that fails, speak to you in #openmoko-cdevel
May 06 15:17:42 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, I'm out of ideas what to do to help this taking pace again
May 06 15:18:47 <rah> DocScrutinizer: have you explained to the infrastructure admin that it is possible to provide a dump of the wiki?
May 06 15:19:17 <DocScrutinizer> no, as he knows more about that stuff than I do
May 06 15:19:36 <rah> DocScrutinizer: could you please explain to the infrastructure admin that it is possible to provide a dump of the wiki?
May 06 15:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> no, I won't do that
May 06 15:20:16 <DocScrutinizer> I'm enjoying my holiday and suggest you forget about my existence
May 06 15:20:16 <rah> DocScrutinizer: could you please provide me with contact details for the infrastructure admin?
May 06 15:20:35 <DocScrutinizer> his name is roh
May 06 15:20:42 <DocScrutinizer> I got no other info
May 06 15:20:54 <DocScrutinizer> details
May 06 15:23:15 <DocScrutinizer> I'm as pissed about the whole situation as any of you, but I don't feel like there'S anything left for me to do to help it to the better
May 06 15:26:53 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: let roh know about mysqldump, output is text only and platform agnostic
May 06 15:27:34 <DocScrutinizer> I guess in same database are all the account
May 06 15:27:36 <DocScrutinizer> s
May 06 15:27:51 <rah> that can be cleaned
May 06 15:28:00 <Martix> rah: +1
May 06 15:28:21 <rah> saying that it is impossible to provide the community with wiki data for mirroring is an insult
May 06 15:28:31 <Martix> because all of this is ridiculous, Openmoko community depends on closed infrastructure, maintained by one man, whos only contact is IRC nick
May 06 15:30:31 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, I don't care
May 06 15:31:04 <rah> DocScrutinizer: are you relinquishing your role as the community liason to the infrastructure admin?
May 06 15:31:18 <DocScrutinizer> I never had such 'role'
May 06 15:31:37 <DocScrutinizer> and I'm fed up with bitching here
May 06 15:31:45 <rah> "So on freenode IRC you /join #openmoko-cdevel and proceed as 
May 06 15:31:46 <rah> suggested, and if you manage to ping me, you'll receive an answer."
May 06 15:31:51 <DocScrutinizer> and with idiotic behaviour of Sean
May 06 15:31:54 <rah> "No need to invent your own procedure, even though you 
May 06 15:31:55 <rah> might think it's more effective, there are reasons it probably isn't."
May 06 15:34:22 <Martix> PaulFertser_: could you contact roh privately and ask him for providing wiki.openmoko.org dump using mysqldump?
May 06 16:18:06 <rah> Martix: I've been chatting with roh
May 06 16:18:32 <rah> Martix: I've emailed Sean Moss-Pultz again to ask for an update, and also noted that the community is getting restless with the lack of communication
May 06 16:18:48 <rah> Martix: on the mailing list you offered to provide hosting
May 06 16:18:56 <rah> Martix: what is your organisation about?
May 06 16:21:13 <rah> Martix: where does the funding come from for the servers?
May 06 16:24:53 <Martix> rah: Openmobility wants to support Open Source mobile platforms and hardware
May 06 16:25:25 <Martix> we have one server, provided by our member
May 06 16:26:14 <rah> Martix: you mean the server is provided by a private individual?
May 06 16:27:00 <Martix> yes, but he and our counsil (incl. me) have remote access
May 06 16:28:42 <rah> I don't think a server provided by a private individual would suffice, in terms of sustainability
May 06 16:28:49 <rah> I have a server
May 06 16:28:53 <rah> HNS has a company server
May 06 16:29:04 <Martix> I realize that for hosting Openmoko infrastructure we need better
May 06 16:29:09 <rah> indeed
May 06 16:30:50 <Martix> point is, we dont know how long will Openmoko Inc. sustain current machines and Nikolaus proposed creating of some Openmoko association or foundation
May 06 16:31:17 <Martix> and Openmobility is association formed by Czech Openmoko community
May 06 16:54:43 <alabd> do you advice installing navit from its repo or shr repo 
May 06 16:54:44 <alabd> ?
May 06 17:01:41 <Martix> rah: do we need dedicated server or just virtual (VPS)?
May 06 17:02:21 <rah> Martix: apparently all the hosts are on VPS right now
May 06 17:03:14 <Martix> yes: hetzner.de
May 06 17:03:33 <rah> apparently the hosting cost is currently €240-€250 per month
May 06 17:03:50 <Martix> you mean dedicated?
May 06 17:08:41 <rah> I mean, that is what's being paid in order to keep the openmoko.org infrastructure online
May 06 17:08:45 <rah> in total
May 06 17:08:54 <Martix> I see
May 06 17:12:50 <Martix> rah: can roh provide backups?
May 06 17:13:03 <rah> he can
May 06 17:13:08 <rah> but he won't
May 06 17:13:21 <Martix> do he have any reason?
May 06 17:13:29 <rah> he hasn't been paid
May 06 17:13:46 <rah> at least, that's the impression I get
May 06 17:13:51 <rah> it seems like he can't be bothered any more
May 06 17:13:53 <Martix> so openmoko.org is hostage?
May 06 17:14:02 <rah> so it would take effort to set up mirroring for the wiki
May 06 17:14:11 <rah> which is effort that he doesn't seem to be willing to put in
May 06 17:14:16 <rah> openmoko.org is fucked
May 06 17:14:27 <Martix> omfg
May 06 17:14:29 <rah> we are in shit
May 06 17:14:39 <Martix> indeed
May 06 17:15:35 <rah> I'll wait to see what kind of response, if any, I get from Sean Moss-Pultz
May 06 17:17:08 <Martix> rah: and what is wrong with docs.openmoko.org and svn.openmoko.org?
May 06 17:17:37 <rah> FYI, svn.openmoko.org is a CNAME for docs.openmoko.org
May 06 17:17:55 <rah> docs.openmoko.org has had its IP address blocked by the hosting company
May 06 17:18:15 <rah> it needs some paperwork filled in to get them to open it up again
May 06 17:18:29 <rah> I don't know who has to fill in that paperwork
May 06 17:28:22 <DocScrutinizer> Martix: (cleaning database) deliver a script that does the exporting job, and I'm absolutely sure roh will run it for us
May 06 17:30:45 <DocScrutinizer> Martix: you're not demanding roh *has to* do all that stuff manually just because he volunteered into maintenance of the infra? I guess you also won't suggest he creates a root access for you so you could do it yourself, while all privacy data on those servers gets exposed to you?
May 06 17:31:20 <Martix> I understand
May 06 17:32:29 <Martix> there is no need for script, just run mysqldump with exclude for tables with personal informations
May 06 17:32:51 <Martix> it's one command, example: mysqldump -u username -p database --ignore-table=database.accounts > database.sql
May 06 17:34:02 <DocScrutinizer> well, check back with actual structure and names of mediawiki mysql backend, deliver the right command, and I guess things will happen
May 06 17:34:47 <rah> Martix: I wouldn't bother
May 06 17:34:54 <DocScrutinizer> or roh will explain to you why it can't work like that
May 06 17:35:04 <rah> Martix: according to roh, "its a fucked up old db format"
May 06 17:35:17 <DocScrutinizer> toldya
May 06 17:35:30 <rah> told us what?
May 06 17:36:53 <DocScrutinizer> sorry sir, to protect my mental health I have to use /ignore now
May 06 17:40:39 <DocScrutinizer> Martix: I've been there, done that, I think twice already. For some reason I ended with wget. I asked roh how to do a wiki backup and discussed it with him. I did a wget with a nasty cleanout job after that, to remove all sorts of unexpected autogenerated pages
May 06 17:41:12 <DocScrutinizer> all this been like 3 years in the past, so sorry when I can't recall each detail of the reasoning
May 06 17:43:51 <Martix> this would be best approach: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki#XML_dump
May 06 17:44:17 <Martix> php dumpBackup.php --full --output=gzip:openmoko_wiki.xml.gz
May 06 17:44:29 <Martix> To create an XML dump, use the command-line tool dumpBackup.php, located in the maintenance directory of your MediaWiki installation.
May 06 17:48:30 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: please, could you ask roh to run: "php dumpBackup.php --full --output=gzip:openmoko_wiki.xml.gz" inside maintenance directory of MediaWiki?
May 06 17:48:59 <DocScrutinizer> please do it yourself
May 06 17:50:45 <rah> Martix: please don't
May 06 17:50:55 <Martix> rah: why?
May 06 17:51:01 <DocScrutinizer> I'd be very interested in the result though, if you won't mind to share it here
May 06 17:51:17 <rah> Martix: for now, I don't think it's worth it
May 06 17:51:26 <rah> Martix: there are bigger problems than just the wiki
May 06 17:52:26 <rah> Martix: this is just one big mess
May 06 17:52:50 <Martix> I agree there are more problems
May 06 17:53:08 <rah> Martix: once the issues with communication and hosting and control have been sorted, then it'll be worth setting up a system to mirror the wiki
May 06 17:54:01 <Martix> if Sean responds...
May 06 17:54:03 <rah> Martix: but until then, it's probably a good idea not to use up what little goodwill there is on the administrators' part by asking them to fiddle with this smaller issue
May 06 17:54:40 <rah> well, if Sean doesn't respond then that's still movement forwards because then we know Sean isn't responding
May 06 17:54:56 <rah> so we can take more drastic action
May 06 17:57:23 <Martix> ok, I can wait another week
May 06 17:57:50 <DocScrutinizer> oh wow, I used /ignore too early. Almost missed rah taking over my "role as contact to infra admin'
May 06 17:58:48 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: you have been replaced :-P
May 06 17:59:00 <DocScrutinizer51> thank God!
May 06 17:59:06 <Martix> :-D
May 06 17:59:43 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless the bitching been too much, /me will be rare here from now on
May 06 18:00:47 <Martix> keep calm, nobody is bitching, at least without a reason :-)
May 06 18:01:36 <PaulFertser_> imho docs.openmoko.org has been down for too long and Sean behaving like an asshole now, so bitching is _rather_ justified.
May 06 18:02:12 <DocScrutinizer> obtuse ignoring of basically every word I said and thinking new *hardware* was the solution to all our problems, while actually the probelm always is people taking the burden to DO something....
May 06 18:02:21 <Martix> I just read some bitching on #qi-hardware :-)
May 06 18:03:01 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: no, new admin is the solution or sponsor paying current admin
May 06 18:05:20 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser_: indeed
May 06 18:05:25 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser_: and hi!
May 06 18:06:06 <DocScrutinizer> but please no bitching in my general direction anymore. I'll simply ignore it
May 06 18:06:37 <DocScrutinizer> well, actually I already did /ignore it
May 06 18:06:39 <PaulFertser_> DocScrutinizer: hi
May 06 18:08:30 <PaulFertser_> Well, ok, i can just notice that apparently while Sean is behaving like an asshole, roh acts very cryptic, and that's discouraging. Also, i see no reason for the Openmoko community to not vote to, say, pass access credentials to some trusted individuals.
May 06 18:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> that's exactly the point
May 06 18:09:13 <lindi-> PaulFertser_: just getting access to the data would be enough to migrate it
May 06 18:09:26 <DocScrutinizer> plus Martix' comment about funds to pay admins
May 06 18:09:31 <lindi-> PaulFertser_: at least git trees we could move to gitorious/github easily
May 06 18:09:41 <lindi-> PaulFertser_: but now that they are down that's too late
May 06 18:09:54 <DocScrutinizer> they are not 'down'
May 06 18:09:57 <Martix> lindi-: git.openmoko.org is still up
May 06 18:09:57 <PaulFertser_> lindi-: of course, but roh acts cryptic, so dumping the data this way is not easy.
May 06 18:09:59 <DocScrutinizer> just unreacable
May 06 18:10:16 <lindi-> Martix: oh it works again?
May 06 18:10:39 <Martix> look at git.openmoko.org now
May 06 18:10:40 <PaulFertser_> git yes, svn no
May 06 18:10:51 <PaulFertser_> As svn and doc is the same host, right?
May 06 18:10:58 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 06 18:11:03 <DocScrutinizer> afaik
May 06 18:11:14 <DocScrutinizer> same IP I guess
May 06 18:11:36 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: youre wrong
May 06 18:11:40 <Martix> host  git.openmoko.org
May 06 18:11:42 <Martix> git.openmoko.org has address 88.198.160.201
May 06 18:11:48 <Martix> host svn.openmoko.org
May 06 18:11:49 <Martix> svn.openmoko.org is an alias for docs.openmoko.org.
May 06 18:11:51 <Martix> docs.openmoko.org has address 88.198.148.21
May 06 18:12:03 <DocScrutinizer> err wut?
May 06 18:12:09 <Martix> maybe one physical host with more IPs?
May 06 18:12:16 <DocScrutinizer> [2012-05-06 20:10:51] <PaulFertser_> As svn and doc is the same host, right?
May 06 18:12:27 <DocScrutinizer> [2012-05-06 20:11:49] <Martix> svn.openmoko.org is an alias for docs.openmoko.org.
May 06 18:12:35 <Martix> DocScrutinizer: ok
May 06 18:12:55 <Martix> but git is on different than svn
May 06 18:13:08 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
May 06 18:14:34 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser_: indeed roh acts cryptic
May 06 18:14:53 <PaulFertser_> If Sean refuses to clarify the situation for two weeks already, probably he deserves some public bashing on reddit or /. article or something like that, treating the community this way is not tolerable.
May 06 18:29:35 <rah> I've spoken some guys at the Oregon State University Open Source Lab
May 06 18:29:51 <rah> they have limited resources but they're open to the idea of helping, if comes to it
May 06 18:32:06 <rah> OSU OSL helps hosting bits of, eg, Meego, Apache, KDE, etc.
May 06 18:39:49 <DocScrutinizer> since this is no secret site: https://monitor.openmoko.org/munin/agni/docs.openmoko.org-processes.html
May 06 18:40:20 <rah> PaulFertser_: I think we would need someone with a high-profile blog to post about it really, before reddit or slashdot would take notice
May 06 18:40:32 <rah> anyone know someone with a high-profile blog?
May 06 18:40:34 <rah> :-)
May 06 18:40:52 <DocScrutinizer> I already posted that link (or similar ones) several times, but probably very few of you are aware or do remember
May 06 18:41:18 <rah> DocScrutinizer: yes it's up but it's blocked from the outside world
May 06 18:41:23 <rah> DocScrutinizer: we know this
May 06 18:41:27 <rah> DocScrutinizer: it doesn't help us
May 06 18:41:38 <PaulFertser_> rah: i will now write another email, so please give it some 2 days more.
May 06 18:42:01 <rah> PaulFertser_: I've just emailed Sean again
May 06 18:42:48 <DocScrutinizer51> rah: could you pretty please stop talking to me? each and every post of yours is negative and discouraging, if not worse
May 06 18:42:53 <rah> PaulFertser_: what is it you're saying to give 2 days more
May 06 18:43:06 <rah> ?
May 06 18:43:12 <PaulFertser_> rah: before posting on a high-profile blog :)
May 06 18:43:19 <rah> PaulFertser_: oh
May 06 18:43:28 <rah> PaulFertser_: well, I don't know anyone with a high-profile blog :-)
May 06 18:44:03 <rah> so no worries about that :-)
May 06 18:45:10 <PaulFertser_> rah: how long was it that Sean is silent about the issue?
May 06 18:49:36 <rah> PaulFertser_: I emailed him (and publicly CC'd community@...) on 22nd April; then emailed contact@openmoko.org privately four days later on 26th April; he responded to me privately the same day, 26th April; Martix emailed him publicly another four days later, on 30th April; I emailed him today, 10 days after his private response to me
May 06 18:50:03 <PaulFertser_> rah: thanks for the information
May 06 18:50:16 <rah> np
May 06 18:54:20 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser_: I think it started with mail >>Bob Ham <rah@bash.sh> to community@lists.openmoko.org, laforge@openmoko.org; 2012-03-23 23:52<< which already implied some relations that are not in line with what we actually got
May 06 18:56:08 <DocScrutinizer> >> it appears that the domain and all of the servers within it are still under the control of FIC<< nope, FIC a) doesn't exist anymore afaik, and b) never been in charge regarding OM infra
May 06 18:56:08 <rah> there's a lot of stuff in my head that should be written down
May 06 18:56:52 <rah> I'll do a brain dump to the community list when outcome of my email to Sean is clear
May 06 18:57:00 <rah> ie, when he either responds or doesn't respond
May 06 18:57:49 <rah> there's still questions I need to ask of roh
May 06 18:59:10 <rah> in particular, who needs to be involved with the paperwork to unblock docs.openmoko.org
May 06 20:29:51 <GNUtoo-desktop> mrmoku`, hi
May 06 23:08:48 <rah> finally some fucking answers
May 07 00:00:33 <DocScrutinizer51> damn, I forgot to set /ignore on this client
May 07 00:06:30 <DocScrutinizer51> I bet our hero will fix all issues with a single email in ALL CAPITALS, if only roh will tell him who's the one to shout at. We idiots dealing with this shit 'every day' just have no clue how to solve such simple problems the right way
May 07 00:13:46 <DocScrutinizer> https://monitor.openmoko.org/munin/index.html // agni, buildhost, jabber, docs:: down/unreachable /  git:: /me got root access  /  projects::down/unreachable  /  varaha::user-access  /  chandra::down/unreachable  /  sita::user-access  /  murder::down/unreachable  // rest up but I got no access
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 07 02:59:59 2012