**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 23 02:59:59 2012 Dec 23 12:41:27 GNUtoo, thank you very much yesterday Dec 23 12:41:39 PaulFertser, thank you too Dec 23 12:41:41 ok Dec 23 12:43:14 I am trying to update my mobile's rootfs which is mounted by nfs, then I chroot it, but the speed seems the same as in sdcard Dec 23 12:44:58 i notice this http://htc-linux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Msm_Serial , but I think I don't need it as I have had ssh, do I? Dec 23 12:48:57 what do you want to do with serial? Dec 23 12:49:43 I forget , We can't use serial to debug kernel, can we? Dec 23 12:51:33 it is still impossible to know why android can use fb but linux can't Dec 23 12:55:02 ayaka, yes with kgdb Dec 23 12:55:43 Oh, I forget it, then I will buy another usb cable Dec 23 12:56:56 another problem, if the camera driver has a v4l2 interface, can I use 3rd part android program to use the camera? Dec 23 13:00:22 what third party programs Dec 23 13:00:27 because it works that way Dec 23 13:00:35 there is the kernel interface Dec 23 13:00:42 and then there are libraries Dec 23 13:00:48 and on top java framework Dec 23 13:00:57 and then the app talks to that if it's an android app Dec 23 13:01:50 ? but in msm platform, it use the api provided by libcamera or use libcamera to convert its interface to android's api interface? Dec 23 13:02:30 I don't understand Dec 23 13:03:29 then what is libcamera used for? Dec 23 13:05:08 kernel v4l2<->libcamera<->java framework<->application Dec 23 13:05:28 since the kernel has non-standard interfaces Dec 23 13:05:39 and that the interface is different between different phones Dec 23 13:05:49 it interfaces the framework with the kernel Dec 23 13:06:22 v4l2 interface is different in different in hardward? Dec 23 13:07:21 basically different phones have different camera interface, some use a v4l2 modified in one way Dec 23 13:07:29 some don't use v4l2 Dec 23 13:07:31 etc... Dec 23 13:08:07 like mr.zhuang's mobile, his camera doesn't use v4l2, does he? Dec 23 13:08:27 no idea, it depends on the compilation options Dec 23 13:10:07 but in PC, does the gstreamer act as libcamera, Dec 23 13:10:44 in pc it's different Dec 23 13:10:54 in pc v4l2 is always standard Dec 23 13:11:22 so in pc there is no need for a libcamera Dec 23 13:13:27 I see, so msm_camera interface doesn't need v4l2? Dec 23 13:13:44 msm_camera is not v4l2 Dec 23 13:14:01 there is a kenrel configuration option to choose between msm_camera and v4l2 in your kernel Dec 23 13:14:06 but v4l2 won't work Dec 23 13:14:19 yes, I can't compile kernel Dec 23 13:14:36 even if you could it require some stuff at runtime Dec 23 13:14:41 like different interface Dec 23 13:14:49 it's not pure v4l2 Dec 23 13:15:53 I see Dec 23 13:16:37 do you have any idea to let zhuang's new camera, like what he may have a tried? Dec 23 13:20:54 I've no idea Dec 23 13:21:13 I've not even an idea how msm camera works Dec 23 13:22:07 since the qualcomm architecture is against freedom because the modem which runs non-free code has too much control, I try to avoid as hard as possible to have any device with a qualcomm SOC inside Dec 23 13:22:37 ok, it doesn't matter, I want to know some about android's wlan, I have build-in modules, and copy the fireware, but it doesn't work Dec 23 13:23:01 so roughly I've not made the camera work on replicant qualcomm devices because we had more freedom-friendly devices to work on Dec 23 13:23:13 and I'm really not interesting in qualcomm SOCs anymore Dec 23 13:23:31 ok Dec 23 13:23:41 I am really tired with MSM too, I think I had better sell my phone and buy a new one Dec 23 13:23:48 yes Dec 23 13:24:16 ping me before choosing a new phone Dec 23 13:24:24 because it's very important to get the right one Dec 23 13:24:34 else it will be too hard to do something with it Dec 23 13:24:37 do you have some mobile suggestion, then I don't need to fight with msm anymore Dec 23 13:24:39 like with the one you have Dec 23 13:24:46 it depends Dec 23 13:24:57 what do you want to do with it? Dec 23 13:25:00 porting debian? Dec 23 13:25:05 yes Dec 23 13:25:11 let me look Dec 23 13:25:18 do you know java? Dec 23 13:25:28 a few Dec 23 13:25:34 (because vala is very similar to java) Dec 23 13:25:48 do you know C and kernel? I guess so Dec 23 13:26:05 yes, but you know my kernel level Dec 23 13:26:30 basically we have 4 devices supported by SHR Dec 23 13:26:37 http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/HardwareComparison Dec 23 13:26:47 the openmoko GTA02 is old and slow and has buggy hardware Dec 23 13:26:54 but it's so well supported Dec 23 13:26:59 and great for freedom Dec 23 13:27:40 the n900 is not usable yet, it lacks a good forwarder between the modem audio and the sound card Dec 23 13:27:52 but there is only that left to do for beeing usable Dec 23 13:27:58 also GPS isn't implemented yet Dec 23 13:28:01 but it's documented Dec 23 13:28:16 some modem stuff is also lacking, the most important one is SMS Dec 23 13:28:21 but that's also documented Dec 23 13:28:27 in ofono and in some headers Dec 23 13:28:37 then next device is the Nexus S Dec 23 13:28:47 it's a really good device Dec 23 13:29:02 it's supported by SHR really well but 2 tiny things lacks for telephony: Dec 23 13:29:16 * better sound scenarios(really easy and straingtforward) Dec 23 13:29:21 it's one command away Dec 23 13:29:42 I have known then before, I think they are little old, without ported is not a problem, but just one thing, it is easy to develop(like OMAP platform)? Dec 23 13:29:42 you mess up with alsamixer, type one command and make a commit of the output and you're done on that point Dec 23 13:29:49 * a better sound driver Dec 23 13:30:16 the current driver needs to be modified to be initialized correctly and not loose its state when you close it Dec 23 13:30:56 the GTA04 is even better supported, but the hardware is not cheap nor easily findable Dec 23 13:31:06 then there is a not supported phone that is omap4 Dec 23 13:31:12 it's supported by openwebos tough Dec 23 13:31:17 it's the galaxy nexus Dec 23 13:31:26 wifi is almost standard Dec 23 13:31:43 bluetooth can work if ubuntu fixes a bug in bluez for the nexus 7 Dec 23 13:31:53 camera is really difficult....but.... Dec 23 13:32:01 there is gstreamer plugins for it Dec 23 13:32:33 so personally I would go for nexus S if you can find it Dec 23 13:32:42 do you need telephony? Dec 23 13:32:54 or some other phones already run debian also Dec 23 13:33:05 like GTA04, n900 and such Dec 23 13:33:12 but they're not complete Dec 23 13:33:26 I mean for n900 Dec 23 13:33:30 GTA04 is pretty good Dec 23 13:33:58 ayaka, also you must consider the form factor too Dec 23 13:34:08 even OMAP platform will have some problem with linux? Dec 23 13:34:26 because if I remember well you didn't even got Xorg working, so you couldn't test the usability of the phone under Xorg Dec 23 13:34:51 and that's because MSM is really hard that you failled, I guess I would have failed too Dec 23 13:35:07 ayaka, well omap is part of the phone Dec 23 13:35:13 you have other components with it Dec 23 13:35:18 such as modem, GPS etc... Dec 23 13:35:24 so it's more phone specific Dec 23 13:35:28 than SOC specificv Dec 23 13:35:32 SOC is one thing Dec 23 13:35:36 but not the only thing Dec 23 13:36:57 I think because of my lazy and a little unorder busy, so I failed, if I have modified the kernel thorought, I think that my mobile has been worked Dec 23 13:37:09 ayaka, OMAP is good in itself, but for instance the motorolla omap phones were signed in such way that running a different kernel was not possible in the past Dec 23 13:37:23 now they did some progress: Dec 23 13:37:51 http://and-developers.com/start?rev=1350504668 Dec 23 13:38:15 ayaka, no, msm is really hard Dec 23 13:38:37 I'm considered really good at what I do and still I failed to make GNU/Linux usable on the HTC Dream Dec 23 13:38:45 oh, I have problem with uboot and x-loader I will ask you later, maybe buying a devboard can have a better developing feeling Dec 23 13:38:56 I mean I had issues with audio, wifi etc... Dec 23 13:39:09 nearly everything worked....but worked so badly that it was unusable Dec 23 13:39:45 ayaka, well a devboard is different, you can't use it outside etc.... Dec 23 13:40:12 some phones are not so far to become usable under SHR Dec 23 13:40:19 so porting them to debian is doable Dec 23 13:40:23 even by you Dec 23 13:40:42 it's just about packaging and re-using work and then finishing the work Dec 23 13:41:05 finishing the work means to go beyong the SHR status and make it usable Dec 23 13:41:09 it's not that far Dec 23 13:42:18 because after porting debian to it, I can also have a arm computer, that is what I want, I can learn many thing then as there is a very great teacher Dec 23 13:42:36 ok Dec 23 13:43:18 you're used to android but you never tried GNU/Linux on a phone so let me explain the potentials issues with user interface: Dec 23 13:43:34 some phones(n900,GTA02,GTA04) have resistive touchscreens Dec 23 13:43:41 and that's really good for GNU/Linux Dec 23 13:43:48 specially for GTK+ programs Dec 23 13:44:03 no,no I don't get used to android, but I have used linux for many years Dec 23 13:44:05 because some programs are obtimized for touch(like the enlightenment ones) Dec 23 13:44:16 yes but you didn't try it on a cellphone Dec 23 13:44:32 and some aren't(like some GTK+ ones) Dec 23 13:44:39 so a stylus is very precise Dec 23 13:44:49 which permit to interact with GTK+ programs too Dec 23 13:45:16 some other phones(like galaxy Nexus or Nexus S) have capacitive touchscreen Dec 23 13:45:16 yes, really. but can I use mouse and keyboard( there is usb OTG , isn't it?) Dec 23 13:45:31 for using that you need or to change the DPI Dec 23 13:46:09 ah if you want that yes it's possible on some phones: Dec 23 13:46:20 GTA02, GTA04, Galaxy Nexus Dec 23 13:46:32 N900 has an integrated not-complete keyboard Dec 23 13:46:59 and the Nexus S has no bluetooth yet and an USB host that requires power(I've to try it) Dec 23 13:48:02 so there are 2 ways for keyboards+mouses Dec 23 13:48:05 or bluetooth Dec 23 13:48:11 or trough USB host Dec 23 13:48:12 why is the DPI more important on capacitive touchscreens? Dec 23 13:48:20 I mean changing the DPI Dec 23 13:48:25 to get stuff bigger Dec 23 13:48:29 ok Dec 23 13:48:29 or change gtkrc Dec 23 13:48:32 or something like taht Dec 23 13:48:46 on my hardware I always try to make it match anyway Dec 23 13:48:53 me too Dec 23 13:49:00 because we have good gtkrc for SHR Dec 23 13:49:03 but he wants debian Dec 23 13:49:10 (even if some people were pissed because their regular gtkrc with 12pt fonts were breaking) Dec 23 13:49:21 ok Dec 23 13:49:35 ayaka: if you want debian you can try hackable:1 Dec 23 13:49:38 I mean for instance the scroll bars are bigs etc.... Dec 23 13:49:47 khorben, what phones are supported? Dec 23 13:49:59 gta02, n900, one HTC phone Dec 23 13:50:06 he has a phone with qualcomm MSM soc right now, he'll probably change it Dec 23 13:50:28 ayaka, do you really need telephony on your phone? Dec 23 13:50:44 because n900 could be what you want if you don't need telephony Dec 23 13:50:56 however there are issues for external keyboards Dec 23 13:50:58 telephony is supported only on n900, and partially on the HTC Dec 23 13:51:08 sorry Dec 23 13:51:13 telephony is supported only on gta02, and partially on the HTC Dec 23 13:51:13 ah good Dec 23 13:51:17 ah ok Dec 23 13:51:21 and not on n900? Dec 23 13:51:22 yes, but I think there is another way, keep my phone and buy a devboard Dec 23 13:51:28 ok Dec 23 13:51:39 if you want an arm computer, the devboard may be better Dec 23 13:51:42 no I did not write any phonet userland Dec 23 13:51:47 it won't do phone etc.... Dec 23 13:51:53 but it will be a better computer Dec 23 13:52:10 I don't know devboards well, but maybe the pandaboard is good Dec 23 13:52:12 ayaka: the N9 is a great phone, giving you a lot of control Dec 23 13:52:19 just hard to buy any... Dec 23 13:52:28 it runs linux off the shelf Dec 23 13:52:37 and you can chroot a debian inside Dec 23 13:52:39 2.6.32..... Dec 23 13:52:46 right? Dec 23 13:52:47 yes, I once want n9, but I can't buy it anywhere Dec 23 13:53:27 if only everyone interested had bought one when it launched... :/ Dec 23 13:53:53 how is it? Dec 23 13:53:57 does it have a 2.6.32? Dec 23 13:54:30 let me check Dec 23 13:54:58 in my memories, Sicelo has n900, let me ask him Dec 23 13:56:03 2.6.37 Dec 23 13:59:20 I have a 2.6.32.54 Dec 23 14:00:07 but there is 2.6.37 kernel Dec 23 14:00:25 there is a 3.x for n900 Dec 23 14:00:27 BusyBox v1.20.0.git (MeeGo 3:1.20-0.2+0m8) built-in shell (ash) Dec 23 14:00:49 (I'm running a stock N9 with the SDK developer modeenabled) Dec 23 14:01:18 Is it ARMv8 worth waiting? Dec 23 14:02:00 if you always wait for the new cool stuff, you never do anything Dec 23 14:02:10 most of my hardware is used Dec 23 14:03:13 sometimes it even helps to have semi-old stuff (driver support...) Dec 23 14:03:21 I prefer reliable to fast Dec 23 14:03:26 yes, but half of year again, I knew, it really begin a big change Dec 23 14:03:39 * khorben <3 sparc Dec 23 14:05:30 GNUtoo, I have the first problem, why OMAP need x-loader why not use u-booy directly? Dec 23 14:05:44 s/u-booy/u-boot/ Dec 23 14:10:26 xloader is smaller Dec 23 14:10:42 that way it fits into the 64k of memory Dec 23 14:10:59 else you would have to make uboot fit in 64k Dec 23 14:11:05 which is really hard Dec 23 14:11:44 basically you have bootrom->something that fit into 64k Dec 23 14:12:03 I hope I remember the value of 64k well Dec 23 14:13:26 Is the 64K the limitted of ARM Dec 23 14:15:11 morphis, hi Dec 23 14:15:26 ayaka, you have to initialize the RAM I think Dec 23 14:15:36 and so the 64k is already-initialized RAM Dec 23 14:16:03 morphis, for crespo I was trying to make the alsa driver standard.... Dec 23 14:16:23 morphis, but I saw userspace uttilities in the uttility git Dec 23 14:17:09 what should I do? Dec 23 14:17:13 userspace seem better Dec 23 14:17:13 oh, only 64K can be used at first, then x-loader initializes RAM, then u-boot don't need to initialize any RAN? Dec 23 14:17:25 something like that Dec 23 14:17:44 I think it's more that tough: Dec 23 14:18:11 xloader fetch in 64k of internal RAM a bootloader Dec 23 14:18:22 from serial or USB or microSD or NAND Dec 23 14:18:28 for details refer to the datasheet Dec 23 14:19:04 morphis, userspace seem better because it would save more power..... Dec 23 14:19:35 I will check datasheet Dec 23 14:21:13 another problem, I have opened a router(atheros platform), I think the one chip is wireless chip and another is SoC, is it correct? Dec 23 14:21:43 there should be some numbers on each chip Dec 23 14:21:45 look them up Dec 23 14:23:43 are they both SoC? Dec 23 14:24:07 look them up... Dec 23 14:26:10 GNUtoo, zhuang got the third award, I just knew that Dec 23 14:26:23 ? Dec 23 14:28:15 GNUtoo, yesterday, they are solving the problem which is solved by you for today competition in XiaMen University Dec 23 14:28:34 ah ok Dec 23 14:29:50 the picture of route http://www.insoler.com/m/photos/get_image/original/31e8c632fc7bc5f5d406db431585459c.jpg Dec 23 14:33:30 GNUtoo, thank you Dec 23 14:33:34 khorben, thank you Dec 23 14:35:11 np Dec 23 14:48:22 GNUtoo: I would prefer the userspace variant Dec 23 14:48:26 as its better to debug Dec 23 14:48:39 morphis, ok Dec 23 14:48:54 morphis, what's the status and what should I do? Dec 23 14:49:15 GNUtoo: long time ago :) Dec 23 14:49:20 need to take a look Dec 23 14:49:22 ok Dec 23 14:49:31 because I don't understand the point of many stuff Dec 23 14:49:50 will do that but after xmas Dec 23 14:49:54 there is an fsodeviced quirk plugin Dec 23 14:50:12 and there are 2 programs in uttilities/nexuss Dec 23 14:50:27 and there are some kernel branches(I guess I shouldn't touch the kernel) Dec 23 14:52:02 morphis, the problem is that I won't probably have time after xmas to work on that Dec 23 14:52:08 and I've time now Dec 23 14:52:23 so I guess I've to hit my head and find out Dec 23 14:53:11 yes Dec 23 14:53:24 test the quirks plugin and check wether it still works Dec 23 14:53:36 quirk has 2 plugins Dec 23 14:53:44 one is alsa power control (newer) Dec 23 14:54:03 and there is an older one that is removed: alsa stream keeper Dec 23 14:55:35 let me try Dec 23 14:55:44 you need both, power control and quirk afaik Dec 23 14:55:53 [fsodevice.herring_quirks/alsa_power_control] Dec 23 14:55:55 I try that Dec 23 14:58:40 hmmm Dec 23 14:58:47 seem that I know what to try now Dec 23 14:59:01 I add the previous config line to fsodeviced.conf Dec 23 14:59:05 then I make scenarios Dec 23 14:59:10 and it would work I guess Dec 23 14:59:31 ah no Dec 23 14:59:39 it doesn't lock.... Dec 23 15:00:03 I guess I need more userspace pieces? Dec 23 15:00:08 like the ones in uttilities? Dec 23 15:11:01 GNUtoo: no the one in utilities isn't needed anymore Dec 23 15:11:06 just the power control plugin Dec 23 15:12:06 ah ok Dec 23 15:12:14 so I need to improve the powercontrol plugin? Dec 23 15:12:22 because it doesn't work Dec 23 15:12:31 or work partially Dec 23 15:12:39 the stereoout scenario is right Dec 23 15:12:50 let me look again Dec 23 15:13:32 for instance controls are reset on .close() of mplayer Dec 23 15:14:14 I wondered if /usr/lib/alsa-lib/alsa_scenario_hook.so was necessary Dec 23 15:19:47 beacuse the power control plugin doesn't do alsa hooks Dec 23 15:19:51 it only exports stuff Dec 23 15:19:53 to dbus Dec 23 15:19:58 s/stuff/some functions/ Dec 23 15:20:43 basically my problem is the following: Dec 23 15:20:55 *) with the plugin I can play, it doesn't block anymore Dec 23 15:21:01 but it doesn't touch the CODEC lock Dec 23 15:21:09 and it doesn't enable the right path either Dec 23 15:22:09 before the plugin it blocked I guess Dec 23 15:22:22 s/before/without Dec 23 15:22:32 maybe it did that: Dec 23 15:22:44 it tries to setup the scenario but fails Dec 23 15:22:51 because nothing is played Dec 23 15:22:57 and then it's in a bad stat Dec 23 15:23:01 *state Dec 23 15:23:06 like fso is in a bad state Dec 23 15:23:08 not the card Dec 23 15:24:30 morphis, ^^^ Dec 23 15:25:22 ah wait Dec 23 15:25:37 the line I added in fsodeviced.conf ....it disappeared Dec 23 15:25:39 again Dec 23 15:26:14 [ Read 49 lines (Warning: No write permission) ] Dec 23 15:26:18 fs errors I guess Dec 23 15:26:20 again.... Dec 23 15:26:31 [ 366.053321] EXT2-fs (loop2): error: remounting filesystem read-only Dec 23 15:26:32 right Dec 23 15:26:37 I'll re-push Dec 23 15:36:54 ok Dec 23 15:36:58 'GLib : g_dbus_connection_register_object: assertion `object_path != NULL && g_variant_is_object_path (object_path)' failed' Dec 23 16:03:29 rash Dec 23 16:08:14 sorry wrong channel Dec 23 16:41:54 sigh sigh sigh Dec 23 16:42:09 I can't print nothing in fsoframeworkd Dec 23 18:31:00 morphis, I've found the bug, it's alsa_audio_private, because alsa-audio-private is wrong because - is not allowed Dec 23 18:38:19 morphis, it still doesn't work out of the box.... Dec 23 18:38:24 hence my previous question Dec 23 18:38:39 let me fix a bit the plugin Dec 23 19:03:04 morphis, should I write you a mail instead? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 24 02:59:57 2012