**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 14 02:59:59 2013
Jan 14 10:36:11 <mmagcww> should the fastboot kernel work with 3.X radios on the HTC Dream? I'm able to boot both 2.X radios that I've flashed to the phone for testing purposes, both 3.X radios do not work with the fastboot kernel procedure
Jan 14 10:38:04 <mmagcww> I need the 3.X radio in order for my data to work, phone calls and sms work on the 2.X radio, though I have yet to confirm whether I'm right about needing the 3.X radio for data
Jan 14 11:43:08 <engblom> I hate to have to ask what probably somebody asks each day here, but I could not find any good FAQ.
Jan 14 11:43:38 <engblom> I have a n900 and I wonder what benefit/drawbacks I would have by switching over to shr?
Jan 14 11:44:34 <engblom> I could from the program list on the site see that there is a calculator, how is it with TI-emulator (you can download a such for maemo)
Jan 14 11:44:59 <engblom> Also, how is it with camera?
Jan 14 11:45:39 <engblom> Also, how is it with youtube, is there any program similar to cutetube?
Jan 14 11:48:59 <PaulFertser> engblom: if you think you can use SHR on n900 as a daily phone you're wrong :(
Jan 14 11:51:00 <PaulFertser> engblom: SHR is OpenEmbedded-based, so basically you'll have everything that's available from OE.
Jan 14 11:51:58 <engblom> PaulFertser: Thanks!
Jan 14 11:52:19 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: there was a time at which using it as a daily phone was possible
Jan 14 11:52:24 <Ainulindale> Sigh :-)
Jan 14 11:52:31 <engblom> What happened?
Jan 14 11:52:39 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: no, it never wasn't afaict.
Jan 14 11:52:55 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: Well, not on n900 but at least on the Freerunner :-)
Jan 14 11:52:57 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: the n900 telephony never was working reasonably on n900.
Jan 14 11:53:03 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: on gta02 it still is.
Jan 14 11:53:07 <pabs3> someone should fill out the wiki page more: http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Devices/NokiaN900
Jan 14 11:53:10 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: so-so!
Jan 14 11:53:12 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: i'm still using FSO.
Jan 14 11:53:18 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: breaks now and then 
Jan 14 11:53:29 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: what are you using now?
Jan 14 11:53:36 <Ainulindale> Android on Nexus S
Jan 14 11:53:38 <Ainulindale> :-)
Jan 14 11:53:54 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: CM? So, how do you manage to tolerate it?
Jan 14 11:53:56 <Ainulindale> (Got annoyed by breaks)
Jan 14 11:54:04 <Ainulindale> Tolerate what?
Jan 14 11:54:07 <PaulFertser> Android
Jan 14 11:54:13 <Ainulindale> Well, it's not that bad
Jan 14 11:54:19 <Ainulindale> Could be better obviously
Jan 14 11:55:07 <Ainulindale> PaulFertser: I was just fed up with having no way to do as a standard what was possible on more "mainstream" OSes, and had no strenght left to fix problems by myself (such has QA)
Jan 14 11:56:27 <PaulFertser> Ainulindale: i'm ok with functionality that's provided by FSO + Emacs, and i think i wouldn't be able to use Android.
Jan 14 11:57:15 <Ainulindale> I didn't yet talk about battery issues :-/
Jan 14 11:57:19 <Ainulindale> (and 3G)
Jan 14 11:57:41 <Ainulindale> it's been what, 5 years now?
Jan 14 11:58:01 <Ainulindale> I'm just under the impression the userland didn't follow up FSO quite that well
Jan 14 11:58:07 <PaulFertser> I've w-cdma support integrated in my netbook anyway.
Jan 14 11:58:11 <Ainulindale> FSO is nice enough, the userland isn't adapted sadly
Jan 14 11:58:23 <Ainulindale> (when I say adapted, I mean: not efficient or not covering all functionalities)
Jan 14 11:58:26 <Ainulindale> As to emacs
Jan 14 11:58:34 <Ainulindale> You may choose freely how to use your tentacles
Jan 14 11:58:38 <Ainulindale> I'm a vim guy :-)
Jan 14 11:59:01 <PaulFertser> I was really surprised by how much joy i had using ELisp.
Jan 14 12:00:55 * engblom is using vim for editing, emacs for ircing.
Jan 14 12:01:32 <Ainulindale> Brrr....
Jan 14 12:01:36 <Ainulindale> A mutant!
Jan 14 12:02:30 <engblom> Ainulindale: Actually, I am using erc (irc client inside of emacs) only because of the spell-check.
Jan 14 12:02:45 <engblom> Emacs has both its bright sides, and its bad sides.
Jan 14 12:03:02 <Ainulindale> The bad side being that it has two bad sides?
Jan 14 12:03:11 <Ainulindale> (ha, a recursive bad side, that's a good thing)
Jan 14 12:03:51 <engblom> Well, one bad side is lack of threads (definitely a bad side). Try to connect to Undernet (most servers will not accept you) and while it tries to connect, the whole emacs will be locked.
Jan 14 12:04:05 <engblom> Emacs is a terrible os, in that way...
Jan 14 12:04:45 <Ainulindale> heh
Jan 14 12:04:50 <Ainulindale> still a irssi user here
Jan 14 12:04:56 <Ainulindale> been that way for almost ten years
Jan 14 12:06:07 <engblom> I used irssi for many, many years too, but I wanted a good spell-check. That could not be achieved with irssi. It was annoying how it was echoing suggestions instead of marking the misspelled words red (or something similar)
Jan 14 12:11:44 <PaulFertser> engblom: but it can do that too http://emacswiki.org/emacs/ConcurrentEmacs
Jan 14 12:15:53 <engblom> PaulFertser: According to that page, it looks like it is work in progress, and as far as I know, RMS is against making emacs threaded.
Jan 14 12:17:29 <PaulFertser> engblom: you can do some elisp computations in a child emacs process
Jan 14 12:18:43 <PaulFertser> engblom: but yes, my main annoyance with Emacs is its current single-threaded sloppiness.
Jan 14 12:19:16 <PaulFertser> And elisp is ancient :)
Jan 14 12:19:22 <PaulFertser> But still lots of fun.
Jan 14 12:23:25 <engblom> I have a theory, but I do not know if it is true: I think the "bloat" of emacs is a more or less eternal obstacle for it to ever become a modern editor/environment. I mean, every change you do needs to work with all modules of it. At least emacs24 is one step in right direction when it included a package manager.
Jan 14 12:28:16 <pabs3> oO
Jan 14 12:44:15 <PaulFertser> engblom: since you're an erc user, why do not you try it with https://github.com/jwiegley/emacs-async?
Jan 14 18:52:40 <anyibeth> hola
Jan 14 18:55:46 <anyibeth> alguien sabe como hacer una sala de conversacion,, es que lo necesito urgente,unos amigos me estan pidiendo que haga una sala con contraseña,para que hablemos de una competencia de la escuela,lo haremos contra varias escuelas por eso,no queremos que nadie se entere,por que pueden a ver de otras escuelas esuchando lo que decimos, gracias a los que me digan como,de veras les devere una
Jan 14 18:58:28 <Exio> anyibeth: el canal es para el desarrollo de openmoko, para esas consultas deberias ir a #freeenode y preguntar en ingles, or ir a ##freenode-es y ver si alguien puede ayudarte 
Jan 14 18:59:11 <anyibeth> muchas gracias
Jan 14 20:05:08 <mmagcww> anyone know of a problem in regards to fastbooting a HTC Dream with a 3.X radio, I've searched everywhere for evidence as to why I can boot with the 2.X radios and not with the 3.X radios. I figured I would have found a answer considering the 3.X radio was used with Orange as well as Rogers. It's the same with replicant, it boots with the 2.X radio but not with the 3.X radio. I'd actually rather use SHR as it's the fist ui th
Jan 14 20:07:02 <GNUtoo-x60> mmagcww, hi
Jan 14 20:07:18 <mmagcww> Hello
Jan 14 20:07:31 <GNUtoo-x60> we're looking for maintainers for the htc dream
Jan 14 20:10:34 <mmagcww> I'd help if I had the brains, though it's not my area of expertise, I'm a user, I guess I'll give in and get myself a Palm Pre2 or n900 until someone picks up the htc dream once again. I go with the GTA04 though it's a huge purchase for me
Jan 14 20:12:10 <mmagcww> I wouldn't know where to start if I where to try and trouble shoot the problem, suggestions welcome
Jan 14 20:18:01 <mmagcww> I just had a brain storm, I'm changing my title to tester, I'm looking into it
Jan 14 20:21:52 <mmagcww> Here's the thing, how would you find out why a problem would result, say as in when you have a vertical split screen and you want to sift through windows -- one side, the left works fine when you pull down the window control panel, though if you switch to the right side pane and try and pull down the window control panel it will either; pull up the tool bar configuration menu or switch back to the left pane when the window co
Jan 14 20:23:17 <mmagcww> So I ask you this, figure that one out! you need big brains for this sort of trickery
Jan 14 20:31:06 <mmagcww> All jokes aside, awesome work, I give my thanks. Where would this world be with out all this awesomeness
Jan 14 20:57:32 <GNUtoo-x60> mmagcww, hmmm
Jan 14 20:58:02 <GNUtoo-x60> for a new device the GTA04 at least works as a phone
Jan 14 20:58:28 <GNUtoo-x60> the other targets such as n900 and nexus S are incomplete for telephony
Jan 14 20:58:40 <morphis> GNUtoo-x60: sorry I left yesterday without a response
Jan 14 20:58:47 <GNUtoo-x60> there is also the GTA02 which works with telephony but it's old
Jan 14 20:58:48 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
Jan 14 20:59:39 <GNUtoo-x60> morphis, ok
Jan 14 20:59:51 <GNUtoo-x60> so what should I do for crespo
Jan 14 21:00:11 <GNUtoo-x60> it's one small step away from beeing usable with telephony
Jan 14 21:00:16 <GNUtoo-x60> it already has wifi
Jan 14 21:00:21 <GNUtoo-x60> it can have bluetooth easily
Jan 14 21:00:30 <GNUtoo-x60> GPS will probably never work
Jan 14 21:00:56 <GNUtoo-x60> camera doesn't work out of the box and will probably not work unless someone looks at the replicant source code and makes it work under SHR
Jan 14 21:01:05 <GNUtoo-x60> so it's pretty good
Jan 14 21:01:06 <morphis> GNUtoo-x60: you saw this: https://github.com/shr-distribution/linux/commit/109e4cfd2191ea4a7691ed558f5585cd64b1039e ?
Jan 14 21:01:30 <GNUtoo-x60> yes of course
Jan 14 21:01:49 <GNUtoo-x60> but to make it work you have to do the procedure I explained yesterday:
Jan 14 21:01:53 <GNUtoo-x60> 1) record a song
Jan 14 21:01:58 <GNUtoo-x60> 2) use alsamixer while recording
Jan 14 21:02:04 <GNUtoo-x60> 3) setup the path and the lock
Jan 14 21:02:08 <GNUtoo-x60> 4) audio is working
Jan 14 21:02:21 <GNUtoo-x60> automatic switching fails because the lock is off at startup
Jan 14 21:02:32 <GNUtoo-x60> long time ago I was about to make it work in kernel space
Jan 14 21:02:48 <GNUtoo-x60> like during the 2012 winter hollidays
Jan 14 21:03:03 <GNUtoo-x60> you told me that it was better to do it in userspace
Jan 14 21:03:10 <GNUtoo-x60> then I tried, it failed 
Jan 14 21:03:25 <GNUtoo-x60> and then you told me to wait for 2013
Jan 14 21:03:28 <GNUtoo-x60> and here we are
Jan 14 21:03:46 <GNUtoo-x60> now my time is more divided than before
Jan 14 21:04:09 <GNUtoo-x60> but I still want to make it work if it's not too long
Jan 14 21:07:13 <morphis> with automatic switching you mean by just open the alsa device makes it working and we don't have to care about it again?
Jan 14 21:07:44 <GNUtoo-x60> I mean that FSO can't switch the scenarios because the device is off
Jan 14 21:07:55 <GNUtoo-x60> so it can't set the codec lock
Jan 14 21:07:59 <GNUtoo-x60> and if there is a call
Jan 14 21:08:11 <GNUtoo-x60> it can't switch to a state where there is audio
Jan 14 21:08:37 <GNUtoo-x60> and if someone wants to play music for instance
Jan 14 21:08:55 <GNUtoo-x60> since it's in the off state(because fso failed to switch) you ear no sound
Jan 14 21:08:56 <GNUtoo-x60> etc...
Jan 14 21:09:17 <GNUtoo-x60> basically there is no userspace bootstrap of the sound card
Jan 14 21:09:30 <GNUtoo-x60> I repaired your plugin
Jan 14 21:09:32 <GNUtoo-x60> I tried it
Jan 14 21:09:35 <GNUtoo-x60> still same result
Jan 14 21:09:45 <morphis> that was the job of the plugin
Jan 14 21:09:59 <morphis> opening the alsa device once, set the lock and set the current scenario
Jan 14 21:10:49 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
Jan 14 21:10:53 <GNUtoo-x60> let me look
Jan 14 21:13:26 <morphis> GNUtoo-x60: maybe the power control is not activated automatically but I implemented at least support for this
Jan 14 21:13:39 <morphis> GNUtoo-x60: look for default_policy()
Jan 14 21:13:50 <morphis> it should return ENABLED as value
Jan 14 21:14:14 <GNUtoo-x60> ok let me look
Jan 14 21:14:20 <GNUtoo-x60> ah I start remembering
Jan 14 21:14:25 <GNUtoo-x60> how does it work
Jan 14 21:14:30 <GNUtoo-x60> because it create a private resource
Jan 14 21:14:44 <GNUtoo-x60> and I didn't find how to use that private resource automaticaly
Jan 14 21:16:57 <morphis> GNUtoo-x60: it's because of http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=blob;f=fsodeviced/src/plugins/herring_quirks/alsa.vala;h=6963fd47dc9578b5897446679e727da731a609a2;hb=HEAD#l143
Jan 14 21:17:58 <GNUtoo-x60> let me look
Jan 14 21:18:23 <GNUtoo-x60> morphis, yes but how to use that stuff
Jan 14 21:18:26 <GNUtoo-x60> what is it lacking?
Jan 14 21:18:51 <GNUtoo-x60> I mean there is a private resource
Jan 14 21:19:05 <GNUtoo-x60> does all apps need to be rewriten to use that private resource?
Jan 14 21:19:14 <morphis> no
Jan 14 21:19:20 <morphis> it's activated automatically
Jan 14 21:19:25 <GNUtoo-x60> how?
Jan 14 21:19:27 <morphis> as it's default policy is ENABLED
Jan 14 21:19:31 <morphis> fsousaged does this
Jan 14 21:19:41 <morphis> fsodeviced registers the resource with fsousaged
Jan 14 21:19:51 <morphis> and the resource tells "hey enable me by default"
Jan 14 21:19:59 <morphis> so no one has to care about it
Jan 14 21:20:12 <morphis> but it can be suspended/resumed
Jan 14 21:20:43 <GNUtoo-x60> ah ok
Jan 14 21:20:56 <GNUtoo-x60> but why isn't it enabled by default in reality then
Jan 14 21:21:47 <morphis> don't know
Jan 14 21:21:55 <GNUtoo-x60> let me retry
Jan 14 21:23:23 <GNUtoo-x60> [fsodevice.herring_quirks/alsa_power_control]
Jan 14 21:23:24 <GNUtoo-x60> I add that
Jan 14 21:23:30 <GNUtoo-x60> after [fsodevice.herring_quirks]
Jan 14 21:23:38 <GNUtoo-x60> ?
Jan 14 21:24:05 <GNUtoo-x60> which makes alsa_audio_private appear in fsoraw -l
Jan 14 21:24:47 <morphis> ok
Jan 14 21:25:00 <morphis> check the resource state then
Jan 14 21:25:06 <GNUtoo-x60> mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.GetResourcePolicy alsa_audio_private => 
Jan 14 21:25:10 <GNUtoo-x60> ('enabled',)
Jan 14 21:25:13 <GNUtoo-x60> ok it's enabled
Jan 14 21:25:20 <GNUtoo-x60> then I\'ll try playing with alsamixer
Jan 14 21:25:28 <GNUtoo-x60> everything is off
Jan 14 21:25:33 <GNUtoo-x60> so it can't work
Jan 14 21:25:47 <GNUtoo-x60> maybe I should put the quirks plugin way before the alsa plugins?
Jan 14 21:27:27 <GNUtoo-x60> I'll do that and reboot
Jan 14 21:27:30 <morphis> ok
Jan 14 21:30:10 <GNUtoo-x60> same....
Jan 14 21:30:13 <GNUtoo-x60> everything is off
Jan 14 21:30:35 <GNUtoo-x60> still the resource is enabled
Jan 14 21:32:17 <GNUtoo-x60> morphis, what should I do now?
Jan 14 21:32:24 <morphis> GNUtoo-x60: then the enabled logic is somehow broken
Jan 14 21:32:30 <morphis> you need to debug the plugin
Jan 14 21:32:37 <morphis> add some debug statements and see what it does
Jan 14 21:32:56 <GNUtoo-x60> ok
Jan 14 21:33:09 <GNUtoo-x60> but that's exactly what happens with not enough infos on commit messages
Jan 14 21:33:14 <GNUtoo-x60> no one has a clue anymore
Jan 14 21:33:42 <GNUtoo-x60>   83             _pcm_allocator.take();
Jan 14 21:33:46 <GNUtoo-x60> what's that exactly?
Jan 14 21:34:31 <GNUtoo-x60> ah ok
Jan 14 21:34:40 <GNUtoo-x60> it's the class that is just before
Jan 14 21:34:43 <morphis> yes
Jan 14 21:34:50 <morphis> the code should be self explaining
Jan 14 21:34:57 <morphis> it just opens the alsa device
Jan 14 21:34:59 <morphis> no magic
Jan 14 21:35:09 <morphis> anyway, I have to leave for today
Jan 14 21:35:22 <morphis> ah and as side note I am currently working on getting the fso 0.12 release out
Jan 14 21:35:23 <morphis> bye
Jan 14 21:35:35 <GNUtoo-x60> yes I know
Jan 14 21:35:36 <GNUtoo-x60> bye
Jan 14 23:11:12 <mhanne> weee! ruby running with ffi-efl bindings :D
Jan 14 23:12:17 <mhanne> i had to create symlinks for all e stuff like /usr/lib/libeina.so.1 -> /usr/lib/libeina.so
Jan 14 23:12:33 <mhanne> is there some magic trick i should be doing, or why aren't they there already?
Jan 15 01:24:06 <jeepingben> llll
Jan 15 01:24:10 <jeepingben> df
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 15 02:59:58 2013