**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 24 02:59:58 2013
Jan 24 04:44:41 <morphis> PaulFertser: yes
Jan 24 04:45:10 <PaulFertser> morphis: eh, why would it be any better than FSO?
Jan 24 04:45:15 <PaulFertser> morphis: good morning :)
Jan 24 04:45:21 <morphis> yeah, good morning :)
Jan 24 04:46:21 <morphis> I don't say it's better than FSO but it opens a better path for me to get a device working with a system I like
Jan 24 04:56:24 <PaulFertser> morphis: i'd appreciate it if you elaborated a bit
Jan 24 04:56:55 <morphis> I did
Jan 24 04:57:22 <PaulFertser> I know too litle about webos internals to understand that idea.
Jan 24 04:58:53 <morphis> it's a really nice system. Yeah it's build on web technologies but for my purpose it's the right operating system since I got my first Palm Pre years ago
Jan 24 04:59:14 <morphis> and in the past months we made really good progress
Jan 24 04:59:32 <morphis> and we're backed up to some level :)
Jan 24 05:01:12 <morphis> PaulFertser: we have to made compromises at some places (like the graphics drivers) but I am ok with that
Jan 24 05:09:02 <PaulFertser> morphis: what i care is about 1. good enough kernel (current gta02's is "almost there") 2. Solid telephony and related smartphone infra (i'm using fsogsmd, fsodevice, fsousaged, oeventsd, opimd) and i'd need a replacement for all the components. 
Jan 24 05:14:18 <PaulFertser> I can't see how you might be getting any of that with webos but if you do, why can't i use that setup on my gta02.
Jan 24 07:00:39 <radekp> PaulFertser: hi, how about GTA04? ;-)
Jan 24 07:01:20 <PaulFertser> radekp: how does i really make any difference apart from that it has more RAM and a faster CPU?
Jan 24 07:01:22 <radekp> PaulFertser: it has best supported kernel out there...
Jan 24 07:02:05 <pabs3> is the GTA04 stuff in mainline?
Jan 24 07:02:42 <radekp> yup
Jan 24 07:02:52 <PaulFertser> radekp: i'm not so sure. What about the proper zero-clock support like it was in maemo kernel for n900?
Jan 24 07:02:56 <radekp> only little pieces are missing
Jan 24 07:02:59 <PaulFertser> radekp: and how's the power consumption in general?
Jan 24 07:03:08 <radekp> PaulFertser: 14mA in suspend
Jan 24 07:03:30 <PaulFertser> radekp: but gta02 is twice less!
Jan 24 07:03:36 <radekp> PaulFertser: ~200mA on full brightness
Jan 24 07:03:49 <PaulFertser> Also, i do not think i want suspend on an OMAP platform at all :/
Jan 24 07:03:51 <radekp> PaulFertser: well GTA02 is ~12mA
Jan 24 07:04:25 <PaulFertser> radekp: with deep sleep disabled?
Jan 24 07:04:30 <radekp> PaulFertser: yup
Jan 24 07:05:01 <PaulFertser> radekp: i do no see any reason whatsoever to run with deep sleep disabled.
Jan 24 07:06:13 <radekp> PaulFertser: i have deep sleep enabled, i tried to leave GTA02 with full charged brand new battery - and it laster ~5days
Jan 24 07:07:36 <radekp> PaulFertser: that is around ~10mA
Jan 24 07:07:51 <PaulFertser> radekp: yep, it was claimed the expected time is 140 hours
Jan 24 07:07:57 <radekp> PaulFertser: not that much difference from 15mA
Jan 24 07:08:36 <radekp> PaulFertser: and GTA04 has potential to be even better - one month ago it was at 25mA not it's 15mA
Jan 24 07:08:49 <radekp> erm i mean now it's at 15mA
Jan 24 07:09:21 <radekp> A5 variant will have some more HW fixes so it should be even lower
Jan 24 07:12:08 <PaulFertser> radekp: i do not like suspend at all :(
Jan 24 07:12:58 <radekp> PaulFertser: hmm i have to say that N900 without suspend is quite cool, but there is no reason why GTA04 should not do it too
Jan 24 07:13:07 <PaulFertser> Exactly
Jan 24 07:13:27 <PaulFertser> radekp: of course gta04 has cooler hardware than gta02.
Jan 24 07:14:05 <PaulFertser> But what i was sad about is that even decent almost fully investigated bugreports for FSO are getting ignored unless i actually provide a patch myself.
Jan 24 07:14:12 <PaulFertser> I'm a bit tired of fixing fso :(
Jan 24 07:14:15 <radekp> PaulFertser: maybe we can just apply some zeroclock patches, but i dont think i have skill for it...
Jan 24 07:14:44 <PaulFertser> Though i admit i do not do much, not comparable to what some of you folks do of course. 
Jan 24 07:15:06 <PaulFertser> I just want to use the phone, and stop debugging ...
Jan 24 07:15:21 <radekp> PaulFertser: hmm if FSO was written in C i'd be interested
Jan 24 07:16:03 <PaulFertser> radekp: C is a really unsuitable language for this kind of task, i'm afraid.
Jan 24 07:16:41 <radekp> PaulFertser: well oFono is written in C
Jan 24 07:16:42 <PaulFertser> C++ might have been a good choice but afair it lacked real DBus and glib integration.
Jan 24 07:17:00 <PaulFertser> radekp: i know but where that ofono is? Is it used on any device actually?
Jan 24 07:17:21 <radekp> PaulFertser: i guess it is - i am subscibed to oFono mailing list and it's very active
Jan 24 07:17:41 <PaulFertser> radekp: on which phone e.g.?
Jan 24 07:17:59 <radekp> PaulFertser: i guess it's much more deployed on some USB sticks
Jan 24 07:18:45 <PaulFertser> radekp: well, yes, probably, but i think that the fact nobody uses it on a real cellphone is telling a lot.
Jan 24 07:19:44 <radekp> PaulFertser: i had it running on GTA04 as QtMoko backend - and had zero problems with it
Jan 24 07:20:00 <PaulFertser> radekp: why do not you keep it then?
Jan 24 07:20:16 <radekp> PaulFertser: because imo the Qtopia's phone modem implementation is best
Jan 24 07:21:26 <radekp> PaulFertser: it took me like 2 weeks to adapt it to GTA04 and it works really well - i dont like changing things that work
Jan 24 07:21:47 <PaulFertser> radekp: sounds reasonable
Jan 24 07:22:15 <radekp> PaulFertser: it's written in Qt/C++ and easy to debug...
Jan 24 07:22:58 <PaulFertser> radekp: but qtmoko doesn't really provide proper abstraction for end-user telephony programs, does it? Can i just use it as a daemon and write something like fso.el?
Jan 24 07:23:47 <radekp> PaulFertser: yup that's benefit of oFono/FSO
Jan 24 07:24:26 <radekp> PaulFertser: IMO it could be quite easily to export the qtopia's C++ modem interface to dbus
Jan 24 07:27:21 <PaulFertser> radekp: modem is one thing. I'm using fsogsmd, fsousaged, fsodeviced, oevents, opimd. I'd need an integrated system for all those components.
Jan 24 07:27:59 <radekp> PaulFertser: sure
Jan 24 07:28:15 <PaulFertser> The FSO architecture looks almost fine, the main thing that's lacking is a sane high-level calls interface (current one is really GSM-specific).
Jan 24 07:28:47 <PaulFertser> Probably a telepathy adapter that's using fsogsmd would be a nice fit.
Jan 24 07:30:08 <PaulFertser> And also the way bluetooth earpieces are handled currently (if it works at all, it used to be working but then broken) seems wrong (layer violation)
Jan 24 07:32:31 <radekp> i quite like FSO architecture too and it was very easy to teach QtMoko to run on top of it
Jan 24 07:33:22 <radekp> but the problem for me is that the API is large and wonder if there is at least one active developer that daily uses phone backed by FSO
Jan 24 07:47:18 <PaulFertser> I use my phone daily but i'm not an active developer. Probably i'm the most die-hard user of FSO out there, using it straight for about 3 years almost every day!
Jan 24 07:47:43 <PaulFertser> I also occassionally do useful bugreports and sometimes even patches. But meh :(
Jan 24 14:23:36 <ayaka> GNUtoo-hplaptop,  the teacher refuse to change devboard, is there some info about speed of hardware encoding in OMAP
Jan 24 14:25:13 <ayaka> if it is slow enought, maybe he will change his mind, or I have to write a plugin for gst, there is only hardware decode part in gst
Jan 24 14:29:34 <ayaka> I think the 6410 devboard is simple board, I will let teacher lend it to me, I can use that board to pratise writing dts and many thing about arm
Jan 24 14:44:30 <ayaka> GNUtoo-hplaptop, thank you every much
Jan 24 14:53:41 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> ayaka, hi
Jan 24 14:54:24 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> ayaka, I know that hardware encoding on omap3@600Mhz is slower than software
Jan 24 14:54:34 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> but here you have slower CPU than omap....
Jan 24 14:55:16 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> ayaka, look at this blog:
Jan 24 14:55:17 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> https://felipec.wordpress.com/
Jan 24 14:55:25 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> there are performance stuff on omap3 + gstreamer
Jan 24 14:55:32 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> like graphs and such
Jan 24 15:12:59 <ayaka> GNUtoo-hplaptop,  thank you so much , I didn't recived your message because network problem, but once I notice, I pick up from chat log
Jan 24 15:16:42 <ayaka> I have known how usb and DM9000ae work in that 6410 devboard. but just copy and rewrite from vender's 3.0.1 kernel to 3.7
Jan 24 15:18:51 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> ayaka, my message was to look at https://felipec.wordpress.com/ for the performance of omap3+gstreamer
Jan 24 15:21:10 <ayaka> oh, that is your blog, I have used ssh to visit that blog and finding it
Jan 24 15:22:38 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> no
Jan 24 15:22:42 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> it's not my blog
Jan 24 15:22:53 <ayaka> oh,it is dsp,  does the MFC in s3c6410 is also a dsp in SoC
Jan 24 15:23:06 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> it's about omap DSP and gstreamer
Jan 24 15:23:10 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> felipec worked with that
Jan 24 15:23:18 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> he improved performance of gstreamer etc....
Jan 24 15:23:22 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> for the n900
Jan 24 15:23:49 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> he has graphs and figures on the performance of gstreamer on omap3
Jan 24 15:24:16 <ayaka> yes, I have got your mesg from channel's log before. maybe it will make teacher change his mind
Jan 24 15:25:26 <ayaka> as there is a bug in gst-plug-good in debian armel(reported), I have just tested vp8 in software encode, but it takes full of cpu and looks like a slide show
Jan 24 15:28:36 <ayaka> my god, it is ms level, I think I have to write a encode plugin for gst
Jan 24 15:34:20 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> vp8?
Jan 24 15:34:34 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> why do you use vp8?
Jan 24 15:34:48 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> it's a codec which consume a lot of resources
Jan 24 15:34:51 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> try mjpeg
Jan 24 15:35:19 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> btw I'm building an image for an omap3 which has a camera
Jan 24 15:35:32 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> if you want me to do tests I can do some
Jan 24 15:35:59 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> but you'll have to give me most of the commands to type such as gst-launch v4l2src ! fooenc ! etc...
Jan 24 15:38:18 <ayaka> yes, but there is no rtp plugin in gst for mjpeg
Jan 24 15:40:14 <ayaka> and mjpeg need a high bandwidth, there is the cmd I used https://paste.debian.net/228210/  , please change caps
Jan 24 15:41:55 <ayaka> sorry, I think there is, as it is jpeg
Jan 24 15:43:56 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> ok
Jan 24 15:44:05 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> yes it will need a very high bandwith
Jan 24 15:44:08 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> but a lower CPU
Jan 24 15:44:44 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> because even on an omap3 I doubt that it can do vp8
Jan 24 15:50:44 <ayaka> I have to go, lab will close, thank you and good bye, mjpeg can work(not tested in arm, in x86)
Jan 24 15:50:50 <ayaka> GNUtoo-hplaptop, thank you too much
Jan 24 15:54:18 <GNUtoo-hplaptop> ok
Jan 24 22:26:49 <ccxCZ> so I got used N900 from my uncle. before I brick it, is there convenient way to back up all of the data there? (think nandroid or similar low-level tool)
Jan 24 22:28:51 * ccxCZ is reading the shr wiki on n900
Jan 24 22:42:12 <GNUtoo-x60> ccxCZ, hi
Jan 24 22:42:39 <GNUtoo-x60> what do you want to use the n900 for exactly?
Jan 24 22:42:42 <GNUtoo-x60> telephony?
Jan 24 22:42:46 <GNUtoo-x60> or portable computer?
Jan 24 22:49:54 <ccxCZ> the latter
Jan 24 22:50:15 <GNUtoo-x60> ok good
Jan 24 22:50:28 <ccxCZ> I still prefer my dumbphone for former :-)
Jan 24 22:50:43 <GNUtoo-x60> because no one fixed the forwarder => sound quality during calls is unusable
Jan 24 22:50:58 <ccxCZ> what about SIP?
Jan 24 22:51:08 <ccxCZ> or voip in general
Jan 24 22:51:44 <GNUtoo-x60> I've no idea, I should look if there is a VOIP program packaged
Jan 24 22:51:47 <GNUtoo-x60> maybe trough pidgin
Jan 24 22:53:52 <GNUtoo-x60> I'll go to sleep
Jan 24 22:54:02 <GNUtoo-x60> some pointers:
Jan 24 22:54:13 <GNUtoo-x60> nokia has or had some factory images
Jan 24 22:54:22 <GNUtoo-x60> download theses just in case
Jan 24 22:54:52 <GNUtoo-x60> 2) flasher supports cold flashing => no bricking risk unless you're not skilled enough to flash an image
Jan 24 22:55:20 <GNUtoo-x60> I'm yawning, I'll go
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 25 02:59:58 2013