**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 24 02:59:58 2013
Aug 24 11:58:03 <rah> DocScrutinizer05: I'm not sure if you realise this but I own a GTA04
Aug 24 12:02:29 <DocScrutinizer05> congrats
Aug 24 12:08:14 <fling> rah: great
Aug 24 12:09:25 <pabs3> anyone in Berlin during the next week?
Aug 24 20:23:59 * pabs3 browses through http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2012-March/066491.html
Aug 24 20:58:39 <rah> interesting
Aug 24 20:58:49 * rah boggles at HNS's new-found resistance
Aug 24 21:03:34 <rah> ah
Aug 24 21:04:00 <rah> the files there are just for an expansion board, not the GTA04 itself
Aug 24 21:45:12 <pabs3> the thread is a bit sad. I'm especially surprised to be disagreeing with DocScrutinizer
Aug 24 21:46:29 <DocScrutinizer05> disagreeing on what?
Aug 24 21:47:01 <pabs3> source files etc
Aug 24 21:53:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm all for publishing whatever it needs for a private person to find out every necessary detail of the hw they bought
Aug 24 21:55:58 <DocScrutinizer05> but project files that have been created with a commercial interest in mind, by maybe half a year of work, and with run on a system targeted at production and possibly not a FOSS tool anyway, I don't see the rationale in handing them out to guys who say they rather try to produce the PCB themselves than to buy them from the original manufacturer
Aug 24 21:57:13 <DocScrutinizer05> If I were Nikolaus, I'd hand out a beta version that has some nasty bugs still unfixed
Aug 24 21:57:31 <DocScrutinizer05> but nikolaus is not a bastard like I am
Aug 24 21:59:56 <DocScrutinizer05> pay Nikolaus the expense he had so far for developing the circuit and the PCB and the reflow profile and the footprints and the solder stop and silkscreen and the component placement, plus a 20% on top, and the project files are yours
Aug 24 22:00:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and with expense I also mean his working hours he invested into all that
Aug 24 22:07:01 <DocScrutinizer05> if you want to modify something with the PCB, suggest it to Nikolaus and find an agreement with him, I'm sure he has no objections to let somebody do the changes on the original project files and even would welcome an alternative more economic fab to produce the PCB you might be able to come up with. then you both guys share the risk and the profit
Aug 24 22:08:14 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, do you bring your own food to the restaurant and then blame the waiter not serving fork and knife fast enough?
Aug 24 22:10:48 <DocScrutinizer05> are you giving the restaurant a phonecall the day before asking them to fax you the cooking recipe?
Aug 24 22:14:08 <dos1> aren't those project files even tied to specific production process? don't them need adjustments for manufacturing somewhere else, depending on used equipment?
Aug 24 22:15:31 <JaMa> another view on this issue is number of units produced in one place, people are complaining about price, it would be great to be able to do batch with 1000 units instead of 10 subjects doing batch of 100 units each
Aug 24 22:16:05 <DocScrutinizer05> even worse in this case: do you ask the restaurant to prepare paella marisco with a special fish for you, particularly spicy, for the next day. then you ask to test the taste, ask for the exact instructions how that meal is prepared and say "thank you, now i'm heading home to test if I can get it a tad more spicy and for less money than you called if I had eaten yours"
Aug 24 22:17:38 <DocScrutinizer05> dos1: indeed
Aug 24 22:17:46 <DocScrutinizer05> JaMa: ack
Aug 24 22:19:30 <DocScrutinizer05> (the paella analogy is rather nice here, since paella usually gets prepared on demand and only if a certain number of meals are ordered. The pans are too large to make only one meal)
Aug 24 22:28:29 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, everybody seems to love the N900-case idea. So why don't you start a "crowdfunding" to get the money collected for 200 or even 500 such GTA04-900N and I *bet* Nikolaus will promise to come up with a modified PCB and new LCD interface and other new birdseed, in a timespan of max 9 months
Aug 24 22:30:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard of at least 5 N900 owners who seriaosly consider to try and swap the 3430 SoC for a 3630 from a N9 they would kill to get the chip
Aug 24 22:30:55 <DocScrutinizer05> N900 still go for 250+EUR when in excellent condition
Aug 24 22:31:19 <DocScrutinizer05> this should tell you a bit about the fanbase behind that device
Aug 24 22:32:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and stskeeps had ported maemo fremantle to a beagleboard or pandaboard or whatever several years ago already, so it's not completely out of sight to even keep the OS
Aug 24 22:32:57 <DocScrutinizer05> or clone the N950 ;-P
Aug 24 22:33:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I hear they still go for ~2000EUR on Ebay
Aug 24 22:33:26 <DocScrutinizer05> the case would be cumbersome
Aug 24 22:34:10 <JaMa> well I like the idea and the case, but sure if the difference would be big enough for me for the board replacement
Aug 24 22:34:11 <DocScrutinizer05> as would be the display, there are no spares available *anywhere*. but then the N900 case is way better when it comes to handling than the N950 case ever been
Aug 24 22:35:33 <JaMa> I mean if someone buys perfectly working N900 for 250e, would he want to invest another 400-600e for board replacement?
Aug 24 22:36:06 <DocScrutinizer05> and the GTA04 still is closer to N950/N9 than to N900, but maemo HARMATTAN (N9/50 OS) for sure has no problems whatsoever to run on a N900 display and digitizer (except for multitouch, which you don't really need a lot in HARM anyway)
Aug 24 22:36:28 <DocScrutinizer05> eh?
Aug 24 22:36:35 <DocScrutinizer05> what board replacement?
Aug 24 22:36:56 <DocScrutinizer05> I thought of buying new housings and digitizers and LCDs
Aug 24 22:37:21 <JaMa> it would be different if someone finds stash with 500 unused n900 cases or cheap production of those for Nicolaus to sell complete phone in n900 case
Aug 24 22:37:23 <DocScrutinizer05> housing: 17EUR, digitizer: 15EUR, LCD:30EUR
Aug 24 22:37:55 <DocScrutinizer05> you seen my mail, particularly the links in it?
Aug 24 22:38:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it's all readily available on fleabay
Aug 24 22:38:33 <JaMa> ah sorry then I misunderstood/overlooked what you meant
Aug 24 22:38:35 <DocScrutinizer05> not 500 but probably 5000 and more
Aug 24 22:39:31 <DocScrutinizer05> you can get original black housing, white housing, the heck even golden housing
Aug 24 22:40:05 <DocScrutinizer05> check out ebay!
Aug 24 22:40:34 <DocScrutinizer05> check mymail with the lonks I provided!
Aug 24 22:40:42 <DocScrutinizer05> links even
Aug 24 22:42:31 <JaMa> I probably shouldn;t read e-mails when watching Star Trek and drinking...
Aug 24 22:42:38 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo "fremantle" kernel would probably run OOTB on such a slightly modified GTA04
Aug 24 22:42:43 <JaMa> or even IRC :)
Aug 24 22:43:33 <JaMa> nite
Aug 24 22:43:52 <DocScrutinizer05> booting might be a nice challenge, since NOLO prolly won't run in a non-HS environment, so we finally had to fix uBoot to genuinely boot the board, not get chainloaded from NOLO bootloader
Aug 24 22:43:58 <DocScrutinizer05> nite JaMa
Aug 24 22:44:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and *of course* the modem is a major PITA
Aug 24 22:44:39 <DocScrutinizer05> since the isi libs are closed blobs
Aug 24 22:45:38 <DocScrutinizer05> but Mickey knows the ISI specs and did some adaption and pulling from phonet sufficient to make phonecalls under SHR on N900
Aug 24 22:46:19 <DocScrutinizer05> so I'm sure he could handle the other way round, with ISI upface and AT standard interface downfacing to modem
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 25 02:59:58 2013