**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 10 02:59:59 2014
Aug 10 10:52:41 <GNUtoo-irssi> hi,
Aug 10 10:53:06 <GNUtoo-irssi> GTA02 has muxer_autoclose = 1 in fsogsmd.conf
Aug 10 10:53:14 <GNUtoo-irssi> and some other stuff
Aug 10 10:53:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> I guess that many things were fixed, like the GPRS issues
Aug 10 10:53:41 <GNUtoo-irssi> but how is it possible to do a modem reset from dbus?
Aug 10 10:54:03 <GNUtoo-irssi> mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy GSM disabled
Aug 10 10:54:07 <GNUtoo-irssi> mdbus2 -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy GSM auto
Aug 10 10:54:24 <GNUtoo-irssi> result in a "Can't open the modem." error
Aug 10 10:54:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> Goal: I travelled a lot when I was younger, and I changed country every 2/3/4/5 years
Aug 10 10:55:06 <GNUtoo-irssi> I've therefor a lot of SIMS...
Aug 10 10:55:16 <GNUtoo-irssi> so my plan was to do a script that:
Aug 10 10:55:23 <GNUtoo-irssi> 1) reset the modem
Aug 10 10:55:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> 2) use pisi to get the contacts and fso to get the sim card phone number
Aug 10 10:55:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> 1) is usefull because I've a simtrace connected to the GTA02, so I plan to hotswap SIMs
Aug 10 10:56:18 <GNUtoo-irssi> else I'll just read the fsousaged modem plugin for the gta02
Aug 10 11:13:23 <PaulFertser> GNUtoo-irssi: well, when I release GSM resource the normal way from my fso.el, I can then re-grab it, and that procedure reliably resets the modem. 
Aug 10 11:14:06 <GNUtoo-irssi> ah ok
Aug 10 11:14:11 <GNUtoo-irssi> how do you release it and gab it?
Aug 10 11:14:38 <GNUtoo-irssi> If I do a killall -9 fsogsmd It re-bootstrap the modem and so on
Aug 10 11:14:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> so that works
Aug 10 11:14:50 <GNUtoo-irssi> but org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy GSM disabled doens't disable the modem...
Aug 10 11:15:02 <GNUtoo-irssi> when I do that, the next time I enable it for instance like that:
Aug 10 11:15:05 <GNUtoo-irssi> org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy GSM auto
Aug 10 11:15:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> fsoraw -r GSM sleep 3600
Aug 10 11:15:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> then it says that the serial port is already taken
Aug 10 11:15:45 <GNUtoo-irssi> so I guess I'll go with killall for now
Aug 10 11:16:50 <PaulFertser> I call FSO.Usage.ReleaseResource GSM
Aug 10 11:17:05 <PaulFertser> And if fsogsmd is not hanging, it quits.
Aug 10 11:18:12 <PaulFertser> I've both muxer_autoopen = 1 and muxer_autoclose = 1
Aug 10 11:18:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> The issue is that you're the only user of fsogsmd's resource
Aug 10 11:18:46 <GNUtoo-irssi> here I've phonefsod that requested it already
Aug 10 11:18:59 <PaulFertser> So you should ask phonefsod that it realeses the resource.
Aug 10 11:19:13 <PaulFertser> I think just disabling it behind phonefsod's back is too nasty to work :)
Aug 10 11:19:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> ok
Aug 10 11:21:31 <GNUtoo-irssi> I didn't find something interesting in phoneui or phonefsod's dbus interface for that...
Aug 10 11:22:09 <GNUtoo-irssi> so modem disable is broken
Aug 10 11:22:15 <GNUtoo-irssi> it used to work before
Aug 10 11:22:24 <GNUtoo-irssi> I guess that feature is not that critical anyway
Aug 10 11:22:31 <GNUtoo-irssi> which is why it didn't get noticed
Aug 10 11:36:44 <PaulFertser> Releasing a dfu-util version with known-to-be-broken openmoko support would be a SHAME :/
Aug 10 11:37:41 <PaulFertser> It's still the only really fully functional reasonably free smartphone, dammit. gta04 is close too. Neo900 has _great_ potential.
Aug 10 11:38:18 <GNUtoo-irssi> yes
Aug 10 11:38:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> here's my very practical point of view on it:
Aug 10 11:38:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> The GTA04 can have replicant, but has no possible free modem code yet
Aug 10 11:39:10 <GNUtoo-irssi> and nobody works on that
Aug 10 11:39:16 <GNUtoo-irssi> and probably nobody will ever do it
Aug 10 11:39:20 <GNUtoo-irssi> but you never know
Aug 10 11:39:33 <PaulFertser> It's a shame even core Openmoko + FSO devs have abandoned the project by now :/
Aug 10 11:39:38 <GNUtoo-irssi> the GTA02 instead doesn't have a good android distro at all, and has many hardware issues
Aug 10 11:39:49 <GNUtoo-irssi> well, FSO devs are comming back
Aug 10 11:39:53 <GNUtoo-irssi> at least I hope
Aug 10 11:40:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> they're reviving the mailing liste
Aug 10 11:40:01 <GNUtoo-irssi> *list
Aug 10 11:40:05 <GNUtoo-irssi> and mickeyl has time
Aug 10 11:40:08 <GNUtoo-irssi> I don't anymore
Aug 10 11:40:17 <GNUtoo-irssi> and I've always that dylema with SHR
Aug 10 11:40:32 <GNUtoo-irssi> SHR is nice and finger friendly
Aug 10 11:40:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's GUI is great
Aug 10 11:40:41 <GNUtoo-irssi> but it has a huge issue:
Aug 10 11:40:52 <PaulFertser> mickeyl didn't answer the questions I asked after his "revitalisation mail" :/
Aug 10 11:40:59 <GNUtoo-irssi> I've no guaranties whatsoever that it's close to 100% free
Aug 10 11:41:15 <GNUtoo-irssi> I know there are the non-free kernel firmwares, and the gllin
Aug 10 11:41:20 <GNUtoo-irssi> but I've no ideas about the rest
Aug 10 11:41:24 <GNUtoo-irssi> and nobody do either
Aug 10 11:41:39 <GNUtoo-irssi> so now since SHR contains many bugs, where the dylema:
Aug 10 11:41:54 <GNUtoo-irssi> "I'll fix some bugs, it will be usable soon, and then I free it"
Aug 10 11:42:07 <GNUtoo-irssi> but in fact, after all theses years, I never found the time to free it
Aug 10 11:42:14 <GNUtoo-irssi> because new bugs were always appearing
Aug 10 11:42:38 <GNUtoo-irssi> and you have to fixes theses, else it's unusable and the project dies way faster
Aug 10 11:42:50 <GNUtoo-irssi> so now some possible workarround could be:
Aug 10 11:43:08 <GNUtoo-irssi> Since the GTA04 is there, and that some people want to use it with debian,
Aug 10 11:43:17 <GNUtoo-irssi> there is some pkg-fso repository for it
Aug 10 11:43:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> and a lot is in debian itself
Aug 10 11:43:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> (upstreamed in the official debian)
Aug 10 11:43:57 <GNUtoo-irssi> so I guess all that it would take to get an usable GTA02 for me would be:
Aug 10 11:44:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> 1) Get the hardware issues fixed (bass fix!!!!!)
Aug 10 11:44:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> 2) create a more recent kernel (I expect huge wifi issues...)
Aug 10 11:44:52 <GNUtoo-irssi> 3) install debian well
Aug 10 11:45:06 <GNUtoo-irssi> 4) wait for debian to become in the fsf list of 100% free distros
Aug 10 11:45:29 <GNUtoo-irssi> Still some issues are to be expected
Aug 10 11:45:32 <GNUtoo-irssi> mainly the glamo
Aug 10 11:45:57 <GNUtoo-irssi> so I guess I could find good timings workarround
Aug 10 11:46:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> and a good microsd
Aug 10 11:46:03 <GNUtoo-irssi> and hope that it would work
Aug 10 11:46:23 <GNUtoo-irssi> I would also need to find finger friendly software for my main uses cases
Aug 10 11:46:25 <PaulFertser> Porting ar7000 driver to a recent kernel shouldn't be too hard, it's a hardmac ethernet driver.
Aug 10 11:46:27 <GNUtoo-irssi> telephony is already covered
Aug 10 11:46:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> but music isn't
Aug 10 11:46:41 <PaulFertser> gllin was an issue for gta01 only, gta02 has another gps receiver.
Aug 10 11:46:53 <GNUtoo-irssi> really? so if I convert it to cfg80211 from wext it's easy?
Aug 10 11:47:08 <GNUtoo-irssi> *from wext to cfg80211
Aug 10 11:47:11 <PaulFertser> No, not really.
Aug 10 11:47:13 <PaulFertser> Not easy.
Aug 10 11:47:16 <GNUtoo-irssi> Note that I burned out very badly
Aug 10 11:47:18 <PaulFertser> But you can keep using wext.
Aug 10 11:47:23 <GNUtoo-irssi> ah ok
Aug 10 11:47:33 <GNUtoo-irssi> didn't they remove the driver WEXT API?
Aug 10 11:47:41 <GNUtoo-irssi> like driver<->wext
Aug 10 11:47:41 <PaulFertser> Debian won't become 100% FSF free I think.
Aug 10 11:48:02 <GNUtoo-irssi> and maybe only that is left: driver<->cfg80211<->wext
Aug 10 11:48:06 <PaulFertser> wext is an ioctl api, the drivers were handling all on their own I think.
Aug 10 11:48:23 <PaulFertser> cfg80211 is one of the drivers providing wext ioctl api to the userspace.
Aug 10 11:48:27 <GNUtoo-irssi> ah ok
Aug 10 11:48:38 <GNUtoo-irssi> so there is .ioctl
Aug 10 11:48:47 <GNUtoo-irssi> and everything but the headers is in the driver
Aug 10 11:48:47 <PaulFertser> wext is a list of ioctls
Aug 10 11:48:49 <GNUtoo-irssi> ?
Aug 10 11:48:55 <PaulFertser> Yes, afaict.
Aug 10 11:49:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> ok
Aug 10 11:49:06 <pabs3> PaulFertser: there is potential for something to come out of DebConf14 FYI https://www.fsf.org/events/john-sullivan-20140824-portland-debconf-debian-and-the-fsf-working-together-to-advance-free-software
Aug 10 11:49:18 <GNUtoo-irssi> ah john sullivan
Aug 10 11:49:21 <GNUtoo-irssi> that sounds great
Aug 10 11:49:32 <GNUtoo-irssi> here what I figured out of the debian freedom mess
Aug 10 11:49:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> most of the packages in main are ok
Aug 10 11:49:53 <GNUtoo-irssi> there are still lots of bugs open for the ones that are not
Aug 10 11:50:11 <GNUtoo-irssi> and lots of bugs open for the infrastructure (bug tracker, documentation etc...)
Aug 10 11:50:35 <GNUtoo-irssi> like to remove the mentions of the non-free repository
Aug 10 11:50:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> is that correct?
Aug 10 11:50:46 <GNUtoo-irssi> (that would be the software status)
Aug 10 11:50:56 <GNUtoo-irssi> Then the people status is probably very different
Aug 10 11:51:09 <GNUtoo-irssi> many want to promote the non-free repository somehow I guess
Aug 10 11:51:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> like for instance: "let's find a way to promote it strongly but somehow make it acceptable for the FSF" ?
Aug 10 11:51:43 <pabs3> I don't think promote is the right word, but I think there are quite a few who disagree with hiding non-free
Aug 10 11:51:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> ok
Aug 10 11:51:59 <GNUtoo-irssi> well, I rather see that as misleading stuff
Aug 10 11:52:04 <GNUtoo-irssi> Example:
Aug 10 11:52:10 <pabs3> the most concerning thing for me about Debian is http://lintian.debian.org/tags/source-is-missing.html
Aug 10 11:52:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> User heard of ubuntu
Aug 10 11:52:21 <GNUtoo-irssi> he was told it was 100% free software
Aug 10 11:52:42 <GNUtoo-irssi> because the person who told him missunderstood the ubuntu website and what was written on their cd
Aug 10 11:52:53 <GNUtoo-irssi> becasue it was meant to make people missunderstand
Aug 10 11:53:07 <GNUtoo-irssi> for instance "ubuntu contains only free software" but they didn't talk about the drivers
Aug 10 11:53:11 <GNUtoo-irssi> or similar stuff
Aug 10 11:53:16 <GNUtoo-irssi> it was like that in the past
Aug 10 11:53:24 <GNUtoo-irssi> then he installs it
Aug 10 11:53:34 <GNUtoo-irssi> but it needs some "restricted" stuff to make the drivers work
Aug 10 11:53:45 <GNUtoo-irssi> he clicks without understanding what he just did
Aug 10 11:53:54 <GNUtoo-irssi> and don't even find out that he just installed non-free software
Aug 10 11:54:07 <GNUtoo-irssi> and he still thinks ubuntu is 100% free
Aug 10 11:54:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> that example is lousely based on an exagerated former reality
Aug 10 11:54:42 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's only to illustrate a point
Aug 10 11:54:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> here the user is misslead a lot
Aug 10 11:55:14 <pabs3> yeah, there are some deficiencies in apt/etc and web pages that need addressing
Aug 10 11:56:14 <GNUtoo-irssi> well, I'm not sure if "source is missing" is the most problematic thing
Aug 10 11:56:27 <GNUtoo-irssi> but I'm not following debian closely
Aug 10 11:56:35 <GNUtoo-irssi> there seem to be a huge ammount of packages still
Aug 10 11:56:42 <pabs3> I've been a victim of that myself, accidentally installed worldwind. luckily my non-free/contrib cron script mailed me about it
Aug 10 11:56:44 <GNUtoo-irssi> and I've no idea of the priority of such bugs
Aug 10 11:56:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> well, I've been a victim too in the past
Aug 10 11:57:01 <GNUtoo-irssi> I had gentoo
Aug 10 11:57:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> I started before 100% free distro appeared
Aug 10 11:57:31 <GNUtoo-irssi> in fact I was there at FOSDEM when RMS announced the very first 100% free distro
Aug 10 11:57:37 <GNUtoo-irssi> Ututo
Aug 10 11:57:40 <pabs3> generally such bugs (non-DFSG stuff in main) are release critical and Severity: serious
Aug 10 11:57:50 <GNUtoo-irssi> so I kept gentoo for a while until I switched to trisqeul
Aug 10 11:58:05 <GNUtoo-irssi> in the meantime I was ultra carefull when installing a package
Aug 10 11:58:13 <GNUtoo-irssi> I always looked at the license of it
Aug 10 11:58:23 <GNUtoo-irssi> but once I got bitten by its deps
Aug 10 11:58:29 <GNUtoo-irssi> xv is two things
Aug 10 11:58:39 <jonwil> I used to run Gentoo and about the only non-free thing I had to install was the NVIDIA blob (this was the easiest way to get the old Geforce MX in that machine to work)
Aug 10 11:58:43 <GNUtoo-irssi> xv is an (Xorg?) API for accelerating video resizing
Aug 10 11:58:53 <GNUtoo-irssi> like you play a video, and you put it full screen
Aug 10 11:59:23 <GNUtoo-irssi> but xv is also a non-free freeware with sources, it's an image editing program, a bit like gimp
Aug 10 11:59:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> so you pay to get the full version patch or something like that
Aug 10 11:59:48 <GNUtoo-irssi> and it's non-free as in freedom
Aug 10 11:59:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> and it has source code
Aug 10 12:00:10 <GNUtoo-irssi> now, I had the xv use flag
Aug 10 12:00:24 <GNUtoo-irssi> and that pulled in the xv image editor...
Aug 10 12:00:28 <jonwil> what I want is a distro that's basically Gentoo (with all the "compile everything locally" and that stuff) but 100% free-as-in-freedom with no non-free stuff in the repos
Aug 10 12:00:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> so while I checked most of the deps and always the license of the software I installed
Aug 10 12:00:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> I got bitten by xv
Aug 10 12:01:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> still someone can do the checks by hand etc...
Aug 10 12:01:10 <GNUtoo-irssi> but then it's the same ammount of work than doing his own distro
Aug 10 12:01:44 <GNUtoo-irssi> so instead the person should create his own 100%free distro, or if he lacks the required time, use one that is already 100% free
Aug 10 12:01:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> jonwil: I think it's possible
Aug 10 12:02:11 <GNUtoo-irssi> jonwil: look at what's left of ututo
Aug 10 12:02:34 <GNUtoo-irssi> and modify the portage tree to strip out and replace the non-free stuff in the same way
Aug 10 12:02:43 <GNUtoo-irssi> else it's probably way easier nowadays
Aug 10 12:02:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> portage has stronger licenses checking
Aug 10 12:02:53 <GNUtoo-irssi> and so on
Aug 10 12:03:05 <GNUtoo-irssi> so if it's possible to classify licenses
Aug 10 12:03:08 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's a matter of:
Aug 10 12:03:20 <GNUtoo-irssi> -> adding the right licenses (the ones that are considered free by the FSF)
Aug 10 12:03:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> s/adding/whitelisting/
Aug 10 12:03:29 <apt> GNUtoo-irssi meant: -> whitelisting the right licenses (the ones that are considered free by the FSF)
Aug 10 12:03:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> -> fixing the huge as-is mess
Aug 10 12:03:59 <GNUtoo-irssi> -> fixing the joe-user-license that is instead a modified MIT with joe's name inside
Aug 10 12:04:08 <GNUtoo-irssi> -> stripping out all the non-free stuff
Aug 10 12:04:14 <GNUtoo-irssi> -> releasing a portage tree fork
Aug 10 12:04:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> then it could be similar to parabola for its installation
Aug 10 12:04:35 <GNUtoo-irssi> it could have two modes:
Aug 10 12:04:42 <GNUtoo-irssi> 1) install from livecd/liveusb
Aug 10 12:04:52 <GNUtoo-irssi> 2) convert a gentoo install to a freetoo one
Aug 10 12:05:03 <GNUtoo-irssi> or to a freedo one
Aug 10 12:05:18 <GNUtoo-irssi> gentoo is the fastest penguin out there according to the legend
Aug 10 12:05:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> freedo is the name of the linux-libre mascott
Aug 10 12:05:33 <GNUtoo-irssi> (if I remember well)
Aug 10 12:05:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> so it's the freest penguin out there I guess
Aug 10 12:05:52 <GNUtoo-irssi> but that would be a good thing to do
Aug 10 12:06:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> beside freeing a usefull distro
Aug 10 12:06:10 <GNUtoo-irssi> gentoo is probably dead easy to cross compile and to tune
Aug 10 12:06:19 <GNUtoo-irssi> (before it was way harder)
Aug 10 12:06:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> => you could have freedo on arm, on mips etc...
Aug 10 12:06:44 <GNUtoo-irssi> or make custom versions of it for router, device with 4G of disk storage and so on
Aug 10 12:07:21 <GNUtoo-irssi> or build a version with klibc for including in a 16M BIOS flash as a coreboot payload
Aug 10 12:07:54 <GNUtoo-irssi> So we have:
Aug 10 12:08:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> Trisquel, for users that don't want to customise everything, and servers
Aug 10 12:08:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> Parabola for the bleeding edge and the customisation
Aug 10 12:08:38 <GNUtoo-irssi> gnewsense, I didn't try the last release
Aug 10 12:08:46 <GNUtoo-irssi> we lack some distro
Aug 10 12:08:54 <GNUtoo-irssi> a clone of fedora would be nice
Aug 10 12:08:59 <GNUtoo-irssi> and a clone of gentoo too
Aug 10 12:09:22 <GNUtoo-irssi> Fedora has selinux and systemd
Aug 10 12:09:24 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's nice
Aug 10 12:09:39 <GNUtoo-irssi> gentoo has cross-compilation, customisation at the use flag level
Aug 10 12:09:45 <GNUtoo-irssi> so it's probably great too
Aug 10 12:09:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> nowadays I guess that most computers are fast enough for gentoo
Aug 10 12:10:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> the speed of gentoo is a fake legend
Aug 10 12:10:21 <GNUtoo-irssi> often there were tests by some online magazines
Aug 10 12:10:32 <GNUtoo-irssi> and putting gcc flags don't get you a huge speed bump
Aug 10 12:10:37 <GNUtoo-irssi> usually it's a very very small one
Aug 10 12:10:49 <jonwil> When I was running Gentoo, the speed when it was running wasn't a problem
Aug 10 12:10:52 <GNUtoo-irssi> especially because the common distro already uses good compilation flags
Aug 10 12:11:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> so the points of gentoo is rather to customise use flags
Aug 10 12:11:26 <GNUtoo-irssi> like USE="-Xorg +selinux"
Aug 10 12:11:27 <jonwil> But let me tell you, compiling something like KDE or GCC or some other super-massive package on that system took forever
Aug 10 12:11:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> on what machine?
Aug 10 12:11:55 <GNUtoo-irssi> does it take forever on a T60 with a core 2 duo?
Aug 10 12:11:58 <jonwil> It was a Pentium 4 of some sort
Aug 10 12:12:13 <GNUtoo-irssi> do you really need a core i7 to install a kde upgrade with gentoo?
Aug 10 12:12:23 <jonwil> I think a 1.4GHz P4
Aug 10 12:12:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> because if so that would be ironic
Aug 10 12:12:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> it would be:
Aug 10 12:12:43 <jonwil> It wasn't that it didn't compile
Aug 10 12:12:54 <GNUtoo-irssi> Freedo, the 100% free distribution that you can't use on a 100% free computer
Aug 10 12:13:09 <GNUtoo-irssi> (becuase compiling would be too slow and require more than 3G of RAM)
Aug 10 12:13:21 <GNUtoo-irssi> which no 100% free computers have
Aug 10 12:13:33 <GNUtoo-irssi> (lemote netbooks, x60, t60, macbook2.1)
Aug 10 12:13:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> with x60s, x60t beeing included in the list
Aug 10 12:14:03 <GNUtoo-irssi> and t60 with ati GPU beeing excluded
Aug 10 12:14:26 <jonwil> it was that it could take the best part of a few days to run a full emerge pass if certain large packages like KDE or GCC were updated
Aug 10 12:14:27 <GNUtoo-irssi> well, can you really compile KDE with less than 6G of RAM?
Aug 10 12:14:45 <GNUtoo-irssi> because kde probably depends on webkit
Aug 10 12:14:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> and webkit linking is a nightmare
Aug 10 12:15:05 <jonwil> Well I had webkit/KHTML on that box
Aug 10 12:15:07 <jonwil> and it compiled
Aug 10 12:15:17 <jonwil> and it definatly had less than 4GB of ram
Aug 10 12:15:26 <dos1> GNUtoo-irssi: you can ask phonefsod to release the resource
Aug 10 12:15:46 <GNUtoo-irssi> dos1: nice, how?
Aug 10 12:15:55 <jonwil> since my current (windows) box has 4GB of ram and the Gentoo box was an old PC of mine and I wouldn't have bought a new PC with less ram than my old one :)
Aug 10 12:15:56 <PaulFertser> dos1: wow, you even showcased my fso.el in your slides, thank you! :)
Aug 10 12:16:01 <jonwil> Probably only had 512mb or 1gb
Aug 10 12:16:04 <GNUtoo-irssi> org.shr.phonefso.Usage.GetOfflineMode ?
Aug 10 12:16:14 <GNUtoo-irssi> s/Get/Set/
Aug 10 12:16:15 <apt> GNUtoo-irssi meant: org.shr.phonefso.Usage.SetOfflineMode ?
Aug 10 12:16:21 <jonwil> Thank god I never installed some of the truly massive packages on that thing like OO.o
Aug 10 12:16:47 <GNUtoo-irssi> dos1: Thanks for doing all the work for Neo900
Aug 10 12:17:11 <GNUtoo-irssi> I probably cound't get one, but I would really like it to succeed
Aug 10 12:17:22 <GNUtoo-irssi> it has a hardware keyboard!!!!
Aug 10 12:17:52 <jonwil> I also want it to be the replacement for my N900 if and when that dies
Aug 10 12:18:14 <GNUtoo-irssi> dos1: also do you know pisi?
Aug 10 12:18:42 <GNUtoo-irssi> well, I am keeping my n900 in case I could get a neo900 one day
Aug 10 12:18:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> I should get back my charger though
Aug 10 12:19:06 <dos1> GNUtoo-irssi: ah, looks like I had some older version in mind
Aug 10 12:19:19 <GNUtoo-irssi> jonwil: do ooo/libreoffice still take 5 hours to compile ?
Aug 10 12:19:19 <dos1> GNUtoo-irssi: well, you can still just restart phonefsod
Aug 10 12:19:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> ok
Aug 10 12:19:31 <jonwil> I dont know, I have never compiled ooo/libreoffice thank god
Aug 10 12:19:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> I did once
Aug 10 12:19:47 <GNUtoo-irssi> on a pentium3 if I remember well
Aug 10 12:20:09 <GNUtoo-irssi> pentium 3 1GHz, few RAM at nowadays standards
Aug 10 12:20:11 <jonwil> I would say one of the most nightmarish packages to compile (from memory) was the abomination that is Boost
Aug 10 12:20:18 <GNUtoo-irssi> lol
Aug 10 12:20:29 <GNUtoo-irssi> what was called its build system already?
Aug 10 12:20:31 <dos1> PaulFertser: no, thank you for creating fso.el, so I can tell everyone "you can even phone with emacs!" :D
Aug 10 12:20:32 <GNUtoo-irssi> jsomething
Aug 10 12:20:47 <GNUtoo-irssi> I can't remember
Aug 10 12:20:50 <GNUtoo-irssi> but it's awfull
Aug 10 12:20:51 <jonwil> that and all the things that then need to be totally rebuilt because boost has changed
Aug 10 12:21:03 <GNUtoo-irssi> well, the issue is boost's buildsystem
Aug 10 12:21:08 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's not autotols
Aug 10 12:21:12 <dos1> GNUtoo-irssi: wasn't pisi a tool for pim synchronization?
Aug 10 12:21:16 <GNUtoo-irssi> I can't remember its name
Aug 10 12:21:19 <GNUtoo-irssi> dos1: yes it is
Aug 10 12:21:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> my use case is that one:
Aug 10 12:21:39 <jonwil> At least the KDE family of packages had that nice build system that tells you what % complete it is
Aug 10 12:21:42 <GNUtoo-irssi> I want to copy the content of all my old sim cards, and I've lots of them
Aug 10 12:21:49 <dos1> jonwil: cmake
Aug 10 12:21:53 <PaulFertser> dos1: btw, have you seen my https://gitorious.org/xmonad-smartphone-config/xmonad-smartphone-config/source/aa36011d09c17d2fef0c40fd8d5451f27110fb59:xmonad-dzen-screenshot1.png ? I've created a repository fully explaining how to use a plain GNU/Linux system + Xmonad on a smartphone :)
Aug 10 12:22:05 <GNUtoo-irssi> so instead of powering on, copying, powering off, powering on, copying ...
Aug 10 12:22:23 <GNUtoo-irssi> I connected simtrace to it, simtrace has a SIM slot that is accesible
Aug 10 12:22:30 <GNUtoo-irssi> so my plan instead is:
Aug 10 12:22:39 <GNUtoo-irssi> plug sim, reset modem, copy contacts,
Aug 10 12:22:47 <GNUtoo-irssi> plug sim again, reset modem, copy contacts
Aug 10 12:22:50 <GNUtoo-irssi> way faster
Aug 10 12:22:57 <GNUtoo-irssi> no loong reboot times
Aug 10 12:23:17 <GNUtoo-irssi> and I would retrive the SIM card infos trough fsogsmd dbus interface
Aug 10 12:23:22 <GNUtoo-irssi> like operator and phone number
Aug 10 12:23:38 <PaulFertser> dos1: btw, when I told RMS I'm using Emacs to phone he wasn't really impressed :)
Aug 10 12:23:39 <dos1> PaulFertser: haven't seen that. bookmarked :)
Aug 10 12:23:49 <dos1> hehe :D
Aug 10 12:23:50 <jonwil> I wish the people who have to do the "port Fremantle to Neo900" work good luck, they will need it :)
Aug 10 12:24:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> yes
Aug 10 12:24:53 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's the same kind of work that cyanogenmod does
Aug 10 12:24:58 <GNUtoo-irssi> but there is way more work here
Aug 10 12:25:01 <GNUtoo-irssi> way more blobs
Aug 10 12:25:21 <GNUtoo-irssi> so they either replace the blobs or make them work
Aug 10 12:25:24 <jonwil> Actually, the blobs that are going to cause issues on the Neo900 aren't that many
Aug 10 12:25:26 <GNUtoo-irssi> they take the quickest path
Aug 10 12:25:34 <GNUtoo-irssi> ah ok
Aug 10 12:25:37 <GNUtoo-irssi> I see
Aug 10 12:25:43 <GNUtoo-irssi> you want binary compatibilty then
Aug 10 12:25:47 <GNUtoo-irssi> *they
Aug 10 12:25:53 <jonwil> Yeah
Aug 10 12:26:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> like for instance having the same ALSA controls
Aug 10 12:26:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> just for making every software wirtten for the n900 work
Aug 10 12:26:24 <dos1> maemo uses pulseaudio
Aug 10 12:26:27 <GNUtoo-irssi> like that old free software uttility to change volume
Aug 10 12:26:30 <GNUtoo-irssi> yes
Aug 10 12:26:40 <GNUtoo-irssi> but some programs might access alsa dirrectly
Aug 10 12:26:55 <GNUtoo-irssi> for instance some "Advanced sound control" program with a nice icon
Aug 10 12:27:07 <GNUtoo-irssi> and a simplified alsamixer
Aug 10 12:27:11 <dos1> but sound system will be similar, so the differences might come from things like newer kernel
Aug 10 12:27:12 <GNUtoo-irssi> but it was just an example
Aug 10 12:27:17 <GNUtoo-irssi> ahh ok
Aug 10 12:27:20 <GNUtoo-irssi> not an issue then
Aug 10 12:27:20 <jonwil> Pretty much the only major issues are going to be the closed audio blobs, the cellular services daemon (that talks to the cellular modem) and the GPS daemons
Aug 10 12:27:34 <GNUtoo-irssi> the kenrel do keep userpace API
Aug 10 12:27:48 <jonwil> #1 biggest nightmare will be cellular voice audio
Aug 10 12:27:51 <GNUtoo-irssi> you just need the right .config
Aug 10 12:28:03 <dos1> GNUtoo-irssi: API - yes; alsa controls - not necessarily
Aug 10 12:28:10 <GNUtoo-irssi> and to have the same API than what nokia added
Aug 10 12:28:23 <GNUtoo-irssi> like that custom sysfs path that is not in mainline
Aug 10 12:28:27 <dos1> however, modem audio in Neo900 is simplified a lot in comparision to the one from N900
Aug 10 12:28:42 <GNUtoo-irssi> hmmm
Aug 10 12:28:55 <GNUtoo-irssi> why do you need the same API for the voice
Aug 10 12:29:05 <GNUtoo-irssi> can't pulse handle that at the higher level API
Aug 10 12:29:22 <GNUtoo-irssi> like you take the "public functions" and hook them to the current audio card
Aug 10 12:29:27 <dos1> some big codepaths in closed libs will be able to be replaced via simple copy between two alsa audio cards
Aug 10 12:30:01 <dos1> so modem audio shouldn't be hard to integrate with maemo
Aug 10 12:30:17 <GNUtoo-irssi> ahhh right
Aug 10 12:30:27 <GNUtoo-irssi> I had meego's pulseaudio code in mind
Aug 10 12:30:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> I remember that on maemo it was not free software
Aug 10 12:30:39 <jonwil> I don't envy the people who will have to handle the nightmare of pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice, pulseaudio-module-nokia-common, pulseaudio-module-nokia-record and pulseaudio-module-nokia-music
Aug 10 12:30:51 <dos1> modem (as in phone functions) and GPS will be harder
Aug 10 12:30:59 <GNUtoo-irssi> GPS, yes
Aug 10 12:31:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's ISI
Aug 10 12:31:18 <jonwil> On meego-n900 is handled by a library called libcmtspeechdata
Aug 10 12:31:20 <GNUtoo-irssi> do you plan to do:
Aug 10 12:31:26 <GNUtoo-irssi> AT<->ISI?
Aug 10 12:31:27 <jonwil> The same library is used on the N900 Fremantle
Aug 10 12:31:33 <GNUtoo-irssi> like the reverse of pnatd?
Aug 10 12:31:47 <GNUtoo-irssi> jonwil: ok, so it's easy
Aug 10 12:31:56 <jonwil> Only problem is that libcmtspeechdata is statically linked into pulseaudio-module-nokia-*
Aug 10 12:32:04 <jonwil> otherwise it would be easy
Aug 10 12:32:09 <GNUtoo-irssi> but libcmtspeechdata is free software in meego
Aug 10 12:32:16 <GNUtoo-irssi> I saw its code
Aug 10 12:32:19 <jonwil> it is
Aug 10 12:32:23 <jonwil> but not in maemo
Aug 10 12:32:30 <GNUtoo-irssi> and they did tricks with real time stuff in pulse
Aug 10 12:32:32 <jonwil> and since its statically linked, replacing it isn't simple
Aug 10 12:32:34 <GNUtoo-irssi> like they request RT_PRIO
Aug 10 12:32:46 <GNUtoo-irssi> ok
Aug 10 12:32:59 <GNUtoo-irssi> people that know well binutils are rare, indeed
Aug 10 12:33:09 <GNUtoo-irssi> so it could still be done somehow
Aug 10 12:33:16 <GNUtoo-irssi> like with radare2 and so on
Aug 10 12:33:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> but I wonder who is used to that kind of stuff
Aug 10 12:33:49 <GNUtoo-irssi> since the binaries are ELF
Aug 10 12:33:52 <jonwil> as for GPS, gps works via a pair of daemons called location-daemon and location-proxy (the latter is used to handle supl and talking to the supl server I believe)
Aug 10 12:34:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's easy to do for the people who do know how
Aug 10 12:34:19 <jonwil> there is a library called liblocation (closed source but with header files available) that apps can use to talk to the daemons
Aug 10 12:34:26 <GNUtoo-irssi> I'll do the program to get the data of my SIM
Aug 10 12:34:31 <GNUtoo-irssi> bbl
Aug 10 12:35:13 <jonwil> From where I sit the way to handle GPS is to reverse engineer all the ways in which location-daemon and location-proxy talk to the rest of the system (e.g. dbus interfaces) and build something that does the same but talks to the new GPS hardware
Aug 10 12:35:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> ok
Aug 10 12:35:28 <jonwil> Same for the cellular modem and the cellular services daemon
Aug 10 12:35:34 <GNUtoo-irssi> reverse engineer dbus?
Aug 10 12:35:38 <GNUtoo-irssi> isn't that already documented?
Aug 10 12:35:44 <GNUtoo-irssi> like in maemo wiki
Aug 10 12:36:02 <jonwil> The actual dbus calls used for the cellular services daemon and GPS daemons are only partially documented at best
Aug 10 12:36:10 <GNUtoo-irssi> ok
Aug 10 12:36:22 <jonwil> A few bits and pieces have been documented (by me in a number of cases) but a lot is still a mystery unfortunatly
Aug 10 12:36:25 <GNUtoo-irssi> so dbus introspection and looking up waht it does will be the way to reverse it
Aug 10 12:37:09 <jonwil> I only wish I had the skills (and tools) for ARM reverse engineering that I do for x86, it would make pulling things on the N900 so much easier
Aug 10 12:37:17 <jonwil> things like pulsaudio-nokia-*
Aug 10 12:37:21 <GNUtoo-irssi> radare2 is good for binary stuff
Aug 10 12:37:28 <GNUtoo-irssi> else there is also strace and so on
Aug 10 12:37:37 <jonwil> or libconnui
Aug 10 12:37:41 <GNUtoo-irssi> and LD_PRELOAD wrappers that you write yourself
Aug 10 12:38:13 <GNUtoo-irssi> Replicant uses ldpreload, strace, and looks at logs
Aug 10 12:38:14 <GNUtoo-irssi> bbl
Aug 10 12:40:36 <GNUtoo-irssi> dos1: well, systemctl stop phonefsod doesn't change a thing
Aug 10 12:40:43 <GNUtoo-irssi> it's a bug in fso somewhere
Aug 10 12:41:00 <GNUtoo-irssi> Can't allocate channel #2 from MUX: Channel 2 is already taken.
Aug 10 12:41:09 <GNUtoo-irssi> so I'll killall -9 fsogsmd instead
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 11 02:59:58 2014