**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 08 02:59:59 2016
Aug 08 10:00:18 <Not-c51b> [02freesmartphone.github.io] 07jake42 forked the repository - 13https://git.io/v6sFQ
Aug 08 18:49:36 <DocScrutinizer05> PaulFertser: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1048259057/openkey-the-two-factor-authentication-and-password/posts/1512372
Aug 08 18:49:44 <DocScrutinizer05> PaulFertser: you got mail
Aug 08 18:49:57 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: I did
Aug 08 18:50:16 <DocScrutinizer05> you did? what? :-)
Aug 08 18:50:24 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: did got the mail :)
Aug 08 18:50:27 <DocScrutinizer05> aah
Aug 08 18:50:34 <DocScrutinizer05> nice project
Aug 08 18:50:41 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: btw, I agree with your reasoning regarding the spirit of assigning IDs
Aug 08 18:50:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder why they approach us only now, but anyway...
Aug 08 18:51:03 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Aug 08 18:51:30 <DocScrutinizer05> [wallops] Quick server maintenance so you'll see a few clients reconnect for a short while.
Aug 08 18:53:09 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: I can't see any sources at all there: https://github.com/onlykey/OnlyKey-Firmware
Aug 08 18:53:45 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh
Aug 08 18:55:42 <PaulFertser> Do you?
Aug 08 18:59:47 <DocScrutinizer05> UGH that looks *evil*
Aug 08 19:01:31 <DocScrutinizer05> this clearly doesn't qualify for anything except our ignore list. Please ask Tom/Tim(?) what's the deal with this, he can't be serious
Aug 08 19:04:16 <PaulFertser> Done
Aug 08 19:08:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ta :-)
Aug 08 19:17:17 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm LOL?@ The firmware is Arduino format they use .ino files that when compiled become .hex files that are loaded onto the hardware.
Aug 08 19:17:51 <DocScrutinizer05> where's my link to the layman's lesson about FOSS?
Aug 08 19:20:42 <DocScrutinizer05> HMMM, maybe I'm missing something here?  >> I can also give you access to a dev VM I made if you want to modify/change/experiment with the firmware.<<
Aug 08 19:20:58 <DocScrutinizer05> PaulFertser: ^^^
Aug 08 19:30:08 <DocScrutinizer05> would be a pity when such a nice project fails on FOSS spirit out of mere ignorance about what FOSS means and requires
Aug 08 19:30:20 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: https://github.com/onlykey/OnlyKey-Firmware/blob/master/OnlyKey_Beta_IN/OnlyKey_Beta_IN.ino
Aug 08 19:30:59 <DocScrutinizer05> AAAH!
Aug 08 19:31:12 <DocScrutinizer05> that looks like sourcecode :-)
Aug 08 19:31:32 <DocScrutinizer05> at least faintly
Aug 08 19:33:11 <DocScrutinizer05> PaulFertser: what's your verdict about this now?
Aug 08 19:34:11 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: still looking
Aug 08 19:34:18 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Aug 08 19:35:31 <DocScrutinizer05> I looked at the hex format and thought WTF
Aug 08 19:38:02 <DocScrutinizer05> they got the libs somewhere too
Aug 08 19:38:31 <DocScrutinizer05> https://github.com/onlykey/libraries
Aug 08 19:39:54 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: where did you get a link to that teensyduino?
Aug 08 19:40:20 <DocScrutinizer05> err I started at their main page and clicked my way along
Aug 08 19:40:52 <DocScrutinizer05> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9CRMLtS-CoBLUM2ckJDWEVmWnc/view?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1
Aug 08 19:41:30 <DocScrutinizer05> "loading onlykey frimware"
Aug 08 19:42:24 <DocScrutinizer05> "download and install teensy loader"
Aug 08 19:45:51 <DocScrutinizer05> the quickstart guide
Aug 08 20:16:01 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer05: seems that the libraries are the answer, yes. But they're so tightly integrated with the main project that I do not understand why they should be in a separate repo...
Aug 08 20:16:38 <DocScrutinizer05> NFC either
Aug 08 20:17:03 <DocScrutinizer05> a small punishment in the B note though :-)
Aug 08 20:17:03 <PaulFertser> Hm, this is not free software: https://github.com/onlykey/libraries/blob/master/flashkinetis/flashkinetis.h
Aug 08 20:17:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ooops
Aug 08 20:18:44 <PaulFertser> This doesn't have any licence at all, hence not free too: https://github.com/onlykey/libraries/blob/master/totp/totp.cpp
Aug 08 20:19:22 <PaulFertser> This is gplv3+ https://github.com/onlykey/libraries/blob/master/softtimer/task.cpp
Aug 08 20:19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, seems Tim tries doing the right thing, but has some parts where he failed on proper evaluation of his stuff?
Aug 08 20:20:31 <DocScrutinizer05> do we care or do we just tell him about the problem that's basically *his* problem and we grant an USB-ID anyway?
Aug 08 20:21:22 <PaulFertser> And they seem to be violating MIT/BSD by not adding all the copyright noticies in the documentation.
Aug 08 20:21:38 <PaulFertser> So basically his software must be GPLv3 because of that softtimer part.
Aug 08 20:21:47 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Aug 08 20:21:58 <PaulFertser> Plus he must add documentation aggregating all the MIT/BSD noticies.
Aug 08 20:22:23 <PaulFertser> It seems he has fair intents, yes.
Aug 08 20:22:39 <DocScrutinizer05> then there's still that kinetis thing with such homegrown licensing
Aug 08 20:23:01 <DocScrutinizer05> https://github.com/onlykey/libraries/blob/master/flashkinetis/flashkinetis.h
Aug 08 20:23:12 <PaulFertser> Hm, yes, that can't be included in a GPLv3 project I'm afraid.
Aug 08 20:23:19 <PaulFertser> The most problematic part.
Aug 08 20:23:25 <DocScrutinizer05> as the author
Aug 08 20:23:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ask*
Aug 08 20:23:47 <DocScrutinizer05> (c) Frank Boesing, f.boesing@gmx.de
Aug 08 20:24:51 <PaulFertser> He clearly doesn't want that to be free software, meh. 
Aug 08 20:24:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I think we should grant an ID but urge Tim to sort the issues we found
Aug 08 20:25:31 <DocScrutinizer05> Tim clearly has good intent
Aug 08 20:25:46 <PaulFertser> Agreed
Aug 08 20:26:34 <DocScrutinizer05> so ack from my side
Aug 08 20:26:44 <DocScrutinizer05> despite the flaws
Aug 08 20:27:01 <DocScrutinizer05> up to you
Aug 08 20:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> actually >> 	Private and educational use allowed. 	If you need this library for commecial use, please 	ask me.<< is pretty 'interesting' - to me that means anybody can publish FOSS sourcecode using it, but you can't ship a product with the resulting binary preflashed
Aug 08 20:32:06 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course it taints the license of the project as a whole
Aug 08 20:33:52 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess forbidding commercial use isn't compliant with any GPL
Aug 08 20:34:28 <PaulFertser> Yep
Aug 08 20:34:59 <DocScrutinizer05> requiring a informational notice about the use to the original author might comply (though nasty), but conditional allowance ("please ask me") is a nogo
Aug 08 20:35:55 <PaulFertser> I hope my mail isn't too discouraging.
Aug 08 20:36:13 <PaulFertser> But it's a real mess he made licensing-wise.
Aug 08 20:38:42 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a very fine mail
Aug 08 20:38:48 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks a ton
Aug 08 20:39:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess Tim shall be happy with it
Aug 08 20:39:36 <PaulFertser> Thank you for the discussion :)
Aug 08 20:39:45 <DocScrutinizer05> yw, a pleasure :-)
Aug 08 20:47:03 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh sometimes I wonder if we're all a tad mad meanwhile, discussing copyright stuff of a 40 LOC lib of which 28 lines not even being Code but copyright notice
Aug 08 20:47:45 <DocScrutinizer05> It's actually questionable if such a snippet is eligible to any copyright
Aug 08 20:48:24 <DocScrutinizer05> https://github.com/onlykey/libraries/blob/master/softtimer/task.cpp
Aug 08 20:49:36 * DocScrutinizer05 strongly favors bonoboware license for such stuff ;-D
Aug 08 20:51:29 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mx-revolution/revoLUTIONconTROL/bonoboware.txt
Aug 08 20:52:01 <PaulFertser> https://github.com/onlykey/libraries/blob/master/softtimer/softtimer.cpp too
Aug 08 20:52:15 <PaulFertser> He'll need to rewrite or find an alternative then if he doesn't want it.
Aug 08 20:54:07 <PaulFertser> Bonoboware, LOL
Aug 08 21:02:28 <DocScrutinizer05> PaulFertser: >> That said, if you're going to work on resolving all the licensing issues to make your firmware proper Free software, that would be much appreciated and we're ready to grant you a USB ID right now.<< sounds to me as if there's a fuzzy unclear conditional in this. What exactly is it? A reply "will do"?
Aug 08 21:03:38 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe Tim doesn't know either, hoping for the ID to come in?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 09 02:59:58 2016