**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 27 02:59:59 2016
Sep 27 06:31:17 <PaulFertser> Can you imagine that, my gta02 fell from a table, the front case part unsnapped (the snaps were already damaged), and as it was stick to the touch panel, it ripped it off, tearing the flex cable.
Sep 27 06:39:04 <stdint> it is time for a new phone
Sep 27 06:49:51 <PaulFertser> stdint: what options do I have if I do not want anything less free than gta02?
Sep 27 06:50:24 <stdint> PaulFertser, you may buy a samsung exynos phone?
Sep 27 06:51:05 <PaulFertser> stdint: can it run without proprietary software on SoC?
Sep 27 06:51:08 <stdint> except the modern and graphics as well as hardware sch, all the part is open I think
Sep 27 06:51:35 <stdint> yes and not, the bootloader need a proprietary 1st bootloader
Sep 27 06:51:52 <stdint> also the MFC(video encoder/decoder) need a firmware
Sep 27 06:52:40 <PaulFertser> stdint: firmware is ok, running non-free code on SoC is not for me.
Sep 27 06:52:47 <PaulFertser> stdint: what telephony daemon is used?
Sep 27 06:53:09 <stdint> I don't know the modern is a external chip I think
Sep 27 06:53:20 <stdint> which is a external chip I think
Sep 27 06:53:28 <PaulFertser> But you certainly need some software to talk to it.
Sep 27 06:54:04 <stdint> it could be, I think it would use the HSI interface to communicate with it
Sep 27 06:54:41 <stdint> I am not sure whether the HSI interface driver exists at kernel, as I don't have exynos board except the development board
Sep 27 06:55:39 <PaulFertser> Well, duh, I can and do use gta02 as my only cellphone running only free software. It seems with exynos I'd have to spent years of development before I'd be able to do the same.
Sep 27 06:55:54 <stdint> the S3C24xx is really too old
Sep 27 06:56:13 <PaulFertser> I know, as well as Calypso. But I feel trapped.
Sep 27 06:56:18 <stdint> even older than I first time touch the samsung, it is S3C6410
Sep 27 06:56:52 <stdint> PaulFertser, if you are interested at exynos, I may could help (I am the ayaka)
Sep 27 06:58:34 <PaulFertser> stdint: I'm afraid I'm not fit up to hacking on yet another completely different cellphone without much hope to get anything working. Every previous effort of people much more capable than me (e.g. morpheus (?) REing obscure gsm modem protocol as used on early smartphones) failed.
Sep 27 06:59:42 <stdint> at lease the basic graphics won't spent too much time at exynos
Sep 27 07:00:16 <stdint> it is hopeful to make everything work except the modern
Sep 27 07:00:22 <PaulFertser> Given my usecases I'd probably be happy with text console even...
Sep 27 07:00:45 <PaulFertser> And good power management with upstream kernel?..
Sep 27 07:01:20 <stdint> PaulFertser, yes multi PMIC have been confirmed to work
Sep 27 07:01:57 <stdint> but I am only familiar with exynos 4412, maybe it is not easy to get a new one
Sep 27 07:03:23 <stdint> about the use case, you may look at Gstreamer V4L2 encoder
Sep 27 07:03:48 <stdint> that is what I developed at exynos 4412
Sep 27 07:04:07 <PaulFertser> stdint: when it's a matter of saving mAs just "working" is not enough, unfortunately. Do you know how much effort was spent to get gta02 behave reasonably? gta01 was never finished, and gta04 is still not fully optimised.
Sep 27 07:04:12 <stdint> the HDMI of exynos have been confirmed to work
Sep 27 07:04:58 <stdint> PaulFertser, no I never teached about the power saving from gnutoo
Sep 27 07:04:58 <PaulFertser> stdint: I understand, but my usecase is "a portable *nix that I always carry around with me and that allows me to make voice calls over GSM/UMTS network"
Sep 27 07:05:02 <stdint> so I don't know
Sep 27 07:06:06 <stdint> the modern is the part I never be taught
Sep 27 07:06:31 <PaulFertser> I'm not interested in modern as you might have guessed ;)
Sep 27 07:06:33 <stdint> if the rockchip have a phone I may recommend it to you
Sep 27 07:07:28 <PaulFertser> stdint: you probably have no idea how many subtleties there're in making a phone run. I know a bit about it, as I have spent plenty of time fixing bugs in FSO/FSO2...
Sep 27 07:07:37 <stdint> I mean  UMTS module 
Sep 27 07:08:28 <stdint> s/modern/modem/g
Sep 27 07:09:14 <stdint> the most of problem is modem and GPS right?
Sep 27 07:09:50 <stdint> the otg have been worked at exynos serial, I know you may interested at it
Sep 27 07:16:46 <PaulFertser> stdint: every single smartphone people tried to work on had plenty of different problems. In some case it was problem of RE the protocol used to talk to the modem. In some cases it's power management. In some cases it's simply writing proper userspace etc etc.
Sep 27 07:34:40 <stdint> I see
Sep 27 07:35:44 <PaulFertser> stdint: you know why openmoko community died?
Sep 27 07:36:07 <stdint> no, I really didn't have long time here
Sep 27 07:36:35 <PaulFertser> I'd say it died because not many people really need a free phone, just that.
Sep 27 07:36:56 <PaulFertser> And because the task of creating one proved to be unexpectedly complex.
Sep 27 07:37:58 <stdint> and it is really not easy to get one beyond the Europe
Sep 27 07:39:53 <bencoh> PaulFertser: check replicant status for more info on exynos phones (galaxy2 might be an option for you)
Sep 27 07:40:33 <PaulFertser> bencoh: does any replicant developer use any of replicant running device as an only daily cellphone?
Sep 27 07:41:42 <bencoh> paulk, maybe
Sep 27 07:41:55 <stdint> the latest one is impossible
Sep 27 07:42:09 <PaulFertser> I'm using gta02 as my only daily cellphone.
Sep 27 07:42:37 <bencoh> he's already here btw
Sep 27 07:42:40 <bencoh> paulk-collins: ^
Sep 27 07:43:38 <paulk-collins> yeah yeah, I do
Sep 27 07:43:44 <PaulFertser> wow
Sep 27 07:43:48 <PaulFertser> What device is that?
Sep 27 07:43:56 <paulk-collins> i9100
Sep 27 07:44:34 <paulk-collins> the whole point is that the system can actually be used
Sep 27 07:44:44 <PaulFertser> So it'd not be a downgrade from my gta02, right?
Sep 27 07:44:56 <paulk-collins> freedom-wise, it would
Sep 27 07:45:14 <paulk-collins> be
Sep 27 07:45:34 <PaulFertser> And functionality-wise?
Sep 27 07:45:38 <paulk-collins> probably not
Sep 27 07:45:44 <pabs3> in case you want to stick with gta02, I have a one I don't use. only issue with it is a broken power button
Sep 27 07:45:53 <bencoh> PaulFertser: which closed source part do use (apart from firmware)?
Sep 27 07:45:57 <bencoh> woops. paulk-collins ^
Sep 27 07:46:08 <pabs3> others on community@ might be willing to part with theirs
Sep 27 07:46:30 <PaulFertser> pabs3: I think I'll try to find a compatible touchpanel on "ebay" first, but thanks for the offer.
Sep 27 07:46:38 <PaulFertser> I'm considering trying to live without a cellphone altogether.
Sep 27 07:46:45 <paulk-collins> bencoh, see https://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/GalaxyS2I9100#Freedom-and-privacysecurity-issues
Sep 27 07:46:49 * pabs3 does that
Sep 27 07:47:30 <PaulFertser> It was easier before when there were payphones available on the streets.
Sep 27 07:48:27 <paulk-collins> yeah, cellphones suck anyway
Sep 27 07:48:53 <pabs3> luckily they didn't remove them here
Sep 27 07:49:12 <PaulFertser> paulk-collins: why are you choosing Android and not a regular GNU/Linux system?
Sep 27 07:49:46 <paulk-collins> PaulFertser, that's the more pragmatic approach
Sep 27 07:49:57 <paulk-collins> most*
Sep 27 07:52:02 <PaulFertser> I'm using Debian + FSO2 + Xmonad + Emacs fso.el on my device.
Sep 27 07:52:44 <bencoh> xmonad on gta02?
Sep 27 07:52:50 <PaulFertser> I can't think of a single advantage android has over that (other than being able to run proprietary android apps...)
Sep 27 07:52:54 <PaulFertser> bencoh: yes
Sep 27 07:53:30 <bencoh> and emacs as a fso2 UI .... how did you manage to make that touch-friendly?
Sep 27 07:53:39 <PaulFertser> bencoh: https://gitorious.org/xmonad-smartphone-config/xmonad-smartphone-config/blobs/raw/master/README.org?p=xmonad-smartphone-config:xmonad-smartphone-config.git;a=blob;f=README.org;h=eb6e4270e233e33616456cec6c3f6365e8fc6abc;hb=HEAD
Sep 27 07:53:39 <bencoh> (there's still no keyboard on gta02 right?)
Sep 27 07:53:48 <PaulFertser> yep :/
Sep 27 08:00:38 <PaulFertser> Screenshot: https://gitorious.org/xmonad-smartphone-config/xmonad-smartphone-config/blobs/raw/master/README.org?p=xmonad-smartphone-config:xmonad-smartphone-config.git;a=blob;f=xmonad-dzen-screenshot1.png;h=263b54c37e43a82482a02623c0d1da08b43d1ab5;hb=HEAD
Sep 27 08:01:31 <PaulFertser> FSO2 UI: https://github.com/paulfertser/fso-el/wiki/Screenshots
Sep 27 08:07:12 <bencoh> PaulFertser: using vkbd to navigate?
Sep 27 08:08:02 <bencoh> or mouse cursor in terminal?
Sep 27 08:12:48 <PaulFertser> bencoh: in my Emacs UI almost everything is touch-friendly
Sep 27 15:54:27 <pabs3> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/mozilla.dev.fxos/FoAwifahNPY/Lppm0VHVBAAJ
Sep 27 21:00:35 <antrik> PaulFertser: I'm not sure how viable Neo900 is. other than that, the most community-friendly phone is probably the Fairphone 2... but I have no idea whether it works without proprietary drivers. it's a pretty standard Qualcomm design I think, which is a no-go for certain people...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 28 02:59:58 2016