**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 05 02:59:58 2016 Oct 05 09:15:51 pabs3: those libreboot objections aren't librem-specific though; any Intel laptop will have the same binary BIOS issues Oct 05 09:16:48 and the coreboot blog is just about their process from naivete to enlightenment Oct 05 09:18:50 although, that said, it does hint at a worrying attitude of marketing over substance Oct 05 09:20:02 * rah is considering Purism as a potential employer Oct 05 09:20:50 particularly with their new phone project Oct 05 09:21:00 except they do seem to be doing that wrong as well Oct 05 09:27:36 their goal seems to be to create a phone with a unified video/voice/email/text message app to "disrupt the whole telco industry" Oct 05 09:28:29 and they're doing that with a "carrier-less" phone; in other words, one with only Wi-Fi Oct 05 09:28:57 the unified stuff is basically ... maemo? :D Oct 05 09:29:01 it's possible they could do that Oct 05 09:29:27 but only if there's a migration path from people's existing telephony Oct 05 09:30:28 in other words, they need to produce a normal smart phone which also has the unified communication-over-ip functionality Oct 05 09:31:03 they're treating the traditional telephony as an afterthought Oct 05 09:31:52 which just seems ridiculously naive, again Oct 05 09:33:19 * rah thinks maybe he shouldn't send them his CV Oct 05 09:40:24 https://twit.tv/shows/new-screen-savers/episodes/65?autostart=false Oct 05 09:40:28 from 1:05:00 Oct 05 13:01:41 DocScrutinizer05: do you mean all assigned IDs should be ???(0/4/8/c) or just those that assign more than one? Oct 05 13:02:12 Oh, you say >=1 but before that the word Groups is used. Oct 05 14:45:24 rah: sounds like a reinvention of Telepathy Oct 05 16:07:13 pabs3: exactly Oct 05 16:09:52 pabs3: possibly, except for email, and also that telepathy is just a library rather than a unified frontend Oct 05 16:10:05 and except for the fact that it totally sucks when it comes to telephony Oct 05 16:10:41 telepathy is more an IM framework where the designers said "oh! and let's do telephony as well!" Oct 05 16:11:11 oh yes, and except for SMS Oct 05 16:11:13 and MMS Oct 05 16:12:18 :-) Oct 05 16:30:20 telephony doesn't work that badly there .... it works pretty well on n900 k) Oct 05 17:16:28 bencoh: I've only ever tried to use telepathy through empathy on a desktop to make SIP calls Oct 05 17:16:49 "tried" being the key word Oct 05 17:18:15 huhuh Oct 05 17:24:50 bencoh: what have you used on N900? Oct 05 17:27:21 xmpp, cellular. people reported sip and skype as working as well Oct 05 17:27:32 and all seamless Oct 05 17:33:14 bencoh: err.. skype using telepathy? Oct 05 17:33:29 and cellular? Oct 05 17:33:39 bencoh: are you sure this is using telepathy? Oct 05 18:17:04 rah: definitely yeah Oct 05 18:18:58 bencoh: through which client? Oct 05 18:22:25 nokia developed their own proprietary UI Oct 05 18:26:59 hmm Oct 05 18:46:07 rah: https://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/RTCOM Oct 05 18:48:44 interesting, thanks Oct 05 18:52:41 the most amazing part of all this is ... it actually works Oct 05 18:52:58 rah: well, their survey actually asks how important traditional telephony is considered by potential buyers... Oct 05 18:53:01 considering the amount of components it's quite a miracle Oct 05 19:13:26 antrik: right.. they need to ask? Oct 05 19:16:07 apparently ;-) Oct 05 19:17:27 rah: I kinda understand where they are coming from: blob-free and cellular telephony don't really go together Oct 05 19:18:28 so it's pretty much a matter of how much potential buyers are willing to compromise... Oct 05 19:19:20 don't get me wrong, I'm all about the carrier-free mobile phone Oct 05 19:20:25 but their strategy for successfully bringing a mobile phone to market seems possibly even more naive than their original "libre laptop" campaign Oct 05 19:21:01 I asked in #purism about what dialer software they're going to use and whether they're going to use FSO or oFono Oct 05 19:21:42 11:26 < daimonion> It will probably be either Gnome or Plasma-mobile. Oct 05 19:21:42 11:26 < daimonion> And the appropriate dialer/contact suite. Oct 05 19:22:01 right.. because there are so many gnome dialer/contact suites Oct 05 19:22:41 Both FSO and oFono are middleware. Oct 05 19:22:48 So the question was kinda confusing. Oct 05 19:23:08 But the answer is no good anyway. Oct 05 19:25:00 well.. for someone who understands anything at all about GNU/Linux mobile phone stacks, what FSO and oFono are, and their relationship to dialer software should not be confusing Oct 05 19:25:19 yeah. sounds like they want to build a new distribution (rather than using something existing like Mer or Tizen) -- maybe they will have something usable in about 5 years :-P Oct 05 19:25:43 http://codepad.org/ybGwM2eZ Oct 05 19:25:58 yes, they'll build their own Oct 05 19:26:09 just like they built PureOS rather than use gNewSense Oct 05 19:27:36 god I've really talked myself out of applying for a job with them :-) Oct 05 19:27:59 uh... I don't know anything about Pure Oct 05 19:28:02 whoops Oct 05 19:28:42 uh... I don't know anything about PureOS, but I would expect it to be just a slightly customised standard distribution? that's not too bad, compared to trying to come up with an entirely new system... Oct 05 19:29:33 rah: well, the question should rather be whether they are able/willing to hire you. certainly wouldn't hurt to actually bring some expertise to them... Oct 05 19:30:50 antrik: PureOS is a Debian-based distribution aiming for FSF GFSD compliance Oct 05 19:31:10 antrik: gNewSense is a Debian-base distribution which is already FSF GFSD-compliant Oct 05 19:32:06 antrik: I disagree Oct 05 19:32:45 antrik: I used to think that Oct 05 19:33:38 antrik: now I'm looking very much more sceptically at employers and wondering "are these guys a bunch of dicks, or are they cool?" Oct 05 19:36:07 antrik: I don't think the question should be whether they are able/willing to hire me but whether they are awesome enough for them to work with me :-) Oct 05 19:38:47 joining a bunch of dicks in an effort to raise them from dicks to awesomeness is a foolish endeavour, I think Oct 05 19:39:01 rah: being naive is orthogonal to being dicks... Oct 05 19:39:16 I think it's a much better idea to avoid the dicks and work with awesome people from the get-go Oct 05 19:40:25 antrik: maybe in general but in this particular case, I'm not so sure Oct 05 19:40:36 why is that? Oct 05 19:42:24 dunno Oct 05 19:42:34 they don't seem right Oct 05 19:43:28 this guy, their founder, just wonders in and goes "I WANT TO MAKE LIBERTY COMPUTER THINGIES!" without any clue about whether it's even possible Oct 05 19:43:45 now they're going the same with phones Oct 05 19:44:15 "I WANT TO MAKE MOBILE PHONE THINGS WITHOUT CARRIERS!!" Oct 05 19:45:08 this approach seems like that of a dick Oct 05 19:45:38 s/going/doing/ Oct 05 19:45:51 eh. to me it sounds like the approach of a well-meaning but very clueless person... Oct 05 19:46:10 that's not the same same at all Oct 05 19:46:19 maybe he is well-meaning Oct 05 19:46:31 but that's not the feeling I get Oct 05 19:47:52 maybe he's well-meaning but just a dick about it :-) Oct 05 20:38:41 rah: you are making this more complicated than it needs to be... worst thing that can happen, you get invited to an interview and it turns out you really don't like them Oct 05 22:00:03 indeed, I could give them an interview I suppose :-) Oct 05 22:02:09 don't worry though, I'm not confusing #openmoko-cdevel with a careers advisor's office :-) Oct 06 01:39:47 (carrier free smartphone) been there, done that (until cancelled), in OM Oct 06 01:40:05 didn't fly 2009, won't fly today Oct 06 01:40:43 there's no such thing like ubiquitous free WLAN, not even blob-free WLAN to be honest Oct 06 01:42:07 it's a 'nice' but totally pointless illusional idea Oct 06 01:48:48 yes, Nokia bought a proprietary closed skype interface to telepathy (skyhost). It works, sort of, but is known to be a pretty poor idea by concept since it hogs battery via CPU and cellular data. Based on P2P-principle of skype, that's inevitable Oct 06 02:12:47 rah: telepathy-ring has support for telephony stuff via FSO and IIRC there is also a module for oFono support Oct 06 02:15:16 rah: btw, Purism stole the PureOS name from a defunct Debian derivative: https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/PureOS https://web.archive.org/web/20130531104103/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PureOS Oct 06 02:15:56 rah: did you see the wikipedia page for the founder btw? Oct 06 02:17:10 ah, here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivi,_Inc. Oct 06 02:17:45 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPIX,_Inc._v._ivi,_Inc. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 06 02:59:58 2016