**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 03 02:59:57 2006
Dec 03 09:14:03 <CoreDump|home> A somewhat fitting UF for today =) http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/06dec/uf009803.gif
Dec 03 10:15:39 <buz> now why isnt there a greenish phone somewhere in that carton
Dec 03 10:22:36 <buz> http://www.mobile-review.com/news.php?language=en#news11645 hardware looks quite nice
Dec 03 10:22:48 <buz> and maybe motorola will actually release a somewhat working source?
Dec 03 10:23:45 <koen> heh
Dec 03 10:23:59 <koen> I had a chat about moto's software with a mvista dude yesterday
Dec 03 11:54:22 <buz> moto somehow doesnt want to add wifi to their linux phones either
Dec 03 14:56:16 <Virtuall> hello... does anyone know when and how can I get that FIC smartphone? :) or is this offtopic
Dec 03 15:30:33 <buz_> january
Dec 03 15:30:35 <buz_> directly from fic
Dec 03 17:01:45 <mickeyl> morning
Dec 03 17:03:04 <cephdon> good move.
Dec 03 17:05:03 <cephdon> so, openmoko is based on OE?  and OE will compile and run for the Zaurus 5500.. right?  so I can get a build and put it on my zaurus and code on that until the hardware is released..?  Thats another common question but I don't know the answer to it.. (i.e. SDK)
Dec 03 17:06:31 <mickeyl> OE will be used to build OpenMoko, yes.
Dec 03 17:06:47 <mickeyl> However neither the additional OE .bb files nor the OpenMoko application framework has been released yet
Dec 03 17:08:19 <cephdon> right.  Someone (I dont remember who) suggested that building GTK+ applications would port fine..though they might not conform to the application framework..
Dec 03 17:08:20 <cephdon> is that right?
Dec 03 17:08:23 <mickeyl> exactly that. they will run, but won't fit into the common look & feel
Dec 03 17:08:30 <cephdon> ok
Dec 03 17:08:38 <mickeyl> the common look & feel is in the mid-run the thing what counts for the OpenMoko guys.
Dec 03 17:08:46 <mickeyl> you see, the Linux software world is great
Dec 03 17:08:49 <mickeyl> so many things to choose from
Dec 03 17:08:54 <mickeyl> but it's not integrated. it's all pieces
Dec 03 17:08:59 <cephdon> hehe
Dec 03 17:09:05 <mickeyl> and so they try to bring some structure in
Dec 03 17:09:12 <mickeyl> concentrating on less features
Dec 03 17:09:14 <mickeyl> but more usability
Dec 03 17:09:20 <mickeyl> etc. etc.
Dec 03 17:09:42 <xorAxAx> hmm, "Hardware ETA: January 2007" sounds like they wont ship any software
Dec 03 17:10:06 <mickeyl> point taken
Dec 03 17:12:12 <cephdon> mickeyl: So, in general... how do you feel things are coming along at this point... wrt community, enthusiasm(sp?) etc.. not hardware/software... 
Dec 03 17:13:22 <cephdon> i mean.. there are a number of things like wiki which are not available yet but it seems like people are chomping at the bit.
Dec 03 17:13:36 <xorAxAx> wiki?
Dec 03 17:14:13 <cephdon> wiki, or whatever method used to allow people to share ideas and files or tips.. etc.
Dec 03 17:14:14 <mickeyl> cephdon: all in all i'm really satisfied with how community involvement works out.
Dec 03 17:14:26 <mickeyl> of course, all would like to have hardware and software _now_
Dec 03 17:14:30 <mickeyl> (me too, btw.)
Dec 03 17:14:33 <cephdon> hehe
Dec 03 17:15:01 <timtimred> heh, or perhaps be able to preorder
Dec 03 17:15:09 <mickeyl> but cool ideas are coming up and i think we just seen the icing on the cake
Dec 03 17:15:35 <mickeyl> the fat things are still to come :)
Dec 03 17:15:38 <xorAxAx> mickeyl: you havent got an alpha series device yet?
Dec 03 17:15:56 <cephdon> obviously I don't know about everyone... but this project came at the perfect moment, right before I purchased the more expensive hardware to build my own linux phone.. to I am totally stoked.
Dec 03 17:16:08 <xorAxAx> then its a bit unrealistic to expect a working solution in 60 days
Dec 03 17:16:37 <cephdon> s/to/so/;
Dec 03 17:17:05 <mickeyl> xorAxAx: can't comment on that other than my personal schedule would have been different...
Dec 03 17:17:20 <mickeyl> xorAxAx: but it's always marketing making announcements and then slipping schedules, so who knows...
Dec 03 17:17:31 <xorAxAx> just look at olpc
Dec 03 17:17:40 <xorAxAx> they just shipped B1
Dec 03 17:17:49 <xorAxAx> 3 months ago, they published A
Dec 03 17:17:56 <xorAxAx> (just a mainboard)
Dec 03 17:18:08 <mickeyl> yeah. nokia had to postpone the 770 more than a year in total
Dec 03 17:18:11 <mickeyl> iirc
Dec 03 17:19:12 <cephdon> is this phone hardware *that* much different than others before it?
Dec 03 17:19:24 <mickeyl> afaik for FIC it's a new design
Dec 03 17:19:31 <mickeyl> it's their first smart phone
Dec 03 17:19:37 <mickeyl> they only did feature phones before
Dec 03 17:19:39 <mickeyl> AFAIK
Dec 03 17:19:43 <xorAxAx> january seems completly undoable if the devs dont have any devices yet
Dec 03 17:19:53 <xorAxAx> i mean, the core devs
Dec 03 17:19:59 <cephdon> not even a reference platform...
Dec 03 17:20:04 <mickeyl> i'm not saying i don't have a device
Dec 03 17:20:11 <cephdon> lol
Dec 03 17:20:14 <xorAxAx> but? :)
Dec 03 17:20:26 <cephdon> its not "the" device
Dec 03 17:20:31 <mickeyl> some things don't work :D
Dec 03 17:20:46 <cephdon> and you are not talking software issues.....?
Dec 03 17:20:49 <mickeyl> right
Dec 03 17:20:51 <xorAxAx> oh, i have a device a well, look at this old sony handheld %-)
Dec 03 17:21:07 <mickeyl> since the device is open, it's just a question when the least amount of software and hardware works to ship it.
Dec 03 17:21:25 <xorAxAx> i dont see how openess matters here
Dec 03 17:21:31 <xorAxAx> look how microsoft sold windows 95
Dec 03 17:21:40 <mickeyl> heh
Dec 03 17:21:53 <koen> mickeyl: how will FIC handle certification in the countries around the world?
Dec 03 17:21:58 <mickeyl> if I sell a closed device, i don't sell it with beta software
Dec 03 17:22:11 <mickeyl> if it's open, i might do that
Dec 03 17:22:11 <xorAxAx> mickeyl: you could push updates as well
Dec 03 17:22:17 <cephdon> lol would you rather a device that worked 95% of the time but had software bugs... or one that was solid but was a little late?
Dec 03 17:22:19 <mickeyl> koen: no idea
Dec 03 17:22:21 <xorAxAx> thats happening e.g. for this holy damn 1&1 device
Dec 03 17:24:23 <cephdon> mickeyl: on the software side,  you guys have the specs for the framework but its just not  done yet...
Dec 03 17:24:27 <cephdon> ?
Dec 03 17:28:34 <mickeyl> cephdon: yes. i'm working on implementing the v0.1 of the framework to give the community the ability to efficiently write new applications for the framework. the further development of the framework will be application-programmer driven and done in cooperation.
Dec 03 17:29:06 <koen> To optimize ROI and increase ARPU
Dec 03 17:29:40 <mickeyl> there comes the marketing blurb again ;)
Dec 03 17:29:50 * stefan_schmidt reads to much business terms. ;)
Dec 03 17:30:05 <koen> hey, I had dinner with a mvista dudes, I guess it rubs off ;)
Dec 03 17:30:06 <cephdon> lol
Dec 03 17:30:11 <koen> s/dudes/dude/
Dec 03 17:30:12 <apt> koen meant: hey, I had dinner with a mvista dude, I guess it rubs off ;)
Dec 03 17:30:20 <mickeyl> hehe
Dec 03 17:30:22 <mickeyl> no kidding
Dec 03 17:30:32 <mickeyl> what did he say about MOTO software quality?
Dec 03 17:30:45 <stefan_schmidt> koen: Be carefull. I don't like see you hired by mvista. ;)
Dec 03 17:30:49 <noidd> hmm, law and order marathon.  Great way to spend the day.
Dec 03 17:30:59 <koen> moto choose "mvista professional" instead of "mvista mobile"
Dec 03 17:31:03 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: What a question. It sucks. :)
Dec 03 17:31:06 <mickeyl> hehe
Dec 03 17:31:12 <koen> the professional doesn't have powermanangement and all
Dec 03 17:31:13 <mickeyl> koen: where's the difference?
Dec 03 17:31:25 * stefan_schmidt has read to much moto code over the weekend.
Dec 03 17:32:12 <stefan_schmidt> really strange ipc designs. sigh.
Dec 03 17:32:51 <WillySilly> Hi all
Dec 03 17:33:00 <stefan_schmidt> hi WillySilly 
Dec 03 17:33:36 <mickeyl> koen: d'oh. so that's why they did it themselves
Dec 03 17:37:00 <buz_> i would like to get my fingers on a MOTOFONE
Dec 03 17:37:07 <buz_> 50$ with 400h standby is neat
Dec 03 17:37:19 <buz_> but i guess the thing will have a gruesome UI as per usual
Dec 03 17:37:36 * koen also heard rumours about the neo1973 having its first production run in december
Dec 03 17:37:40 <buz_> on my GF's mp3 phone moto went as far as implementing the mp3 player in fucking java
Dec 03 17:38:14 <cephdon> what verstion of Java is fucking java.. never heard of that one before... /grin
Dec 03 17:38:15 <koen> buz_: the new moto's running linux will have the complete gui written in java
Dec 03 17:38:19 <mickeyl> bbl, got guests
Dec 03 17:38:26 <buz_> well i dont hate java per se
Dec 03 17:38:36 <buz_> i just dont think it's very wise to run something that crunches stuff in it
Dec 03 17:38:49 <buz_> or maybe the mp3 codec is in c who knows
Dec 03 17:39:39 <buz_> well if the whole gui is in java onecould at least theoretically rip the stuff out
Dec 03 17:39:45 <buz_> and replace with something more sane
Dec 03 17:40:33 <cephdon> maybe.....the sidekick and sidekick2 +3 are all java... cant do anything about it.
Dec 03 17:41:05 <cephdon> though I would personally love to port a linux to mine ... /shrug might be useless but interesting.
Dec 03 17:41:23 <cephdon> at least I have not heard anyone do it.
Dec 03 17:41:29 <buz_> mhh sidekick weirdly arent sold in europe
Dec 03 17:41:40 <buz_> then again the hardware looks lousy
Dec 03 17:41:57 <cephdon> its no openmoko.....
Dec 03 17:42:09 <buz_> huge and bad specs
Dec 03 17:42:09 <cephdon> but it serves its core function perfectly fine...
Dec 03 17:42:19 <xorAxAx> buz_: they were sold in .de
Dec 03 17:42:34 <buz_> i guess nobody wanted them
Dec 03 17:42:51 <buz_> just like that stupid ogo swisscom is still pushing
Dec 03 17:43:50 <buz_> in some ways, java is probably most successful on mobilephones
Dec 03 17:44:03 <buz_> it managed to do what it never could on desktops
Dec 03 22:03:47 <Ghiottone> hello
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 04 02:59:57 2006