**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 08 02:59:59 2006
Dec 08 07:12:41 <CM> First call on sx1: http://pavelmachek.livejournal.com/32262.html
Dec 08 07:12:53 <CM> And OpenMoko mentioned :)
Dec 08 12:06:35 <[g2]> how are you guys currently sync'ing your address book on your mobile phones ?
Dec 08 12:08:37 <timtimred> i use the force
Dec 08 12:08:47 <buz> opensync
Dec 08 12:08:49 <buz> but only very rarely
Dec 08 12:08:53 <buz> its a pain
Dec 08 12:08:54 <buz> and buggy
Dec 08 12:09:05 <timtimred> iSync seems to work here :D
Dec 08 12:09:19 <buz> and sometimes i use the crappy sony ericsson winwoes software to do a full backup
Dec 08 12:09:22 <buz> just in case
Dec 08 12:09:37 <timtimred> oh this isnt the mac channel... lol
Dec 08 12:09:49 * timtimred goes back into lurk mode
Dec 08 12:10:28 <buz> isync is probably the single best thing about osx
Dec 08 12:11:01 <timtimred> cocoa is the best thing about mac os x!
Dec 08 12:11:34 <timtimred> imho
Dec 08 12:11:34 <timtimred> :)
Dec 08 12:29:53 * [g2] wonders what cocoa is
Dec 08 12:31:33 <nnpiggy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X says:
Dec 08 12:31:40 <nnpiggy> Apple now refers to the technology behind the OPENSTEP APIs as Cocoa. This heritage is visible in the Cocoa APIs, in which the class names mostly begin with "NS" for NEXTSTEP.
Dec 08 12:36:35 <[g2]> timtimred do you build for Mac OS X ?
Dec 08 12:48:41 <myren> whoa dude
Dec 08 12:48:44 <myren> i didnt know that
Dec 08 13:52:51 <timtimred> [g2]: yes coding for mac is 50% OF MY JOB :)
Dec 08 13:52:53 <timtimred> oops caps
Dec 08 13:53:09 <timtimred> well for the remaining uh, 14 days of this job anyhoo
Dec 08 13:54:53 <mickeyl> so you know both Mac and Linux?
Dec 08 13:55:04 <mickeyl> which toolkits / tools do you enjoy more? 
Dec 08 13:55:10 <mickeyl> e.g. Cocoa vs. Gtk+ / Qt ?
Dec 08 13:55:14 <timtimred> yeah, and enough win32 to make it build on that
Dec 08 13:55:55 <timtimred> havnt fiddled with gtk, but the cocoa environment i find much more productive than QT
Dec 08 13:56:22 <timtimred> by orders of magnitude
Dec 08 13:56:59 <mickeyl> wow
Dec 08 13:57:16 <mickeyl> Qt is an order of a magnitude more productive than Gtk+
Dec 08 13:57:23 <mickeyl> which means Cocoa is really good then
Dec 08 13:59:23 <buz> only if you dont need your app to run anywhere else than osx
Dec 08 13:59:50 <timtimred> exactly. the app im working basicly has a wrapper for win32 and os x     
Dec 08 14:00:02 <buz> well then qt might be more productive
Dec 08 14:00:27 <timtimred> not at this stage it wont ;)
Dec 08 14:01:20 <timtimred> besides, using the wrapper i can use my sweet quartz skillz to visualise data!
Dec 08 14:01:41 <timtimred> and the windows version can suffer without it!
Dec 08 14:01:42 <timtimred> :D
Dec 08 14:16:18 <noidd> I guess it's a matter of taste
Dec 08 14:16:28 <noidd> I found Gtk much easier to work within than Qt
Dec 08 14:23:45 <mickeyl> it's much more wordy which I don't like
Dec 08 14:23:50 <mickeyl> personally
Dec 08 14:24:12 <noidd> I guess what I like about it is that I create every object and then use methods to set up parenting
Dec 08 14:24:26 <noidd> as opposed to creating objects by method calls of their parents
Dec 08 14:24:30 <noidd> if that makes sense
Dec 08 14:24:39 <noidd> that's also why I didn't like Tk
Dec 08 14:25:02 <noidd> Gtk feels more symetric to me, basically.
Dec 08 14:33:41 <robtaylor> mickeyl: you could always give vala a try ;)
Dec 08 14:34:24 <robtaylor> mickeyl: or, i guess, gtkmm, but thats still wordier than Qt
Dec 08 14:34:59 * robtaylor grooves on for the most minimal hal yet ...
Dec 08 14:43:23 <mickeyl> gtkmm sounds good. i will give that a try for my own OpenMoko apps
Dec 08 14:43:37 <mickeyl> for the framework I'm forced to C though
Dec 08 14:48:12 <robtaylor> mickeyl: yeah, best to use C for framework. i guess vala might work there though, but its a controversial choice
Dec 08 14:48:32 <mickeyl> what is vala?
Dec 08 14:48:51 <mickeyl> oh a language
Dec 08 14:48:55 <robtaylor> its a c# ish language that compiles down to gobject code
Dec 08 14:49:05 <mickeyl> interesting. i never heard about that
Dec 08 14:52:34 <robtaylor> mickeyl: http://vala.paldo.org/
Dec 08 14:52:40 <mickeyl> ya, found it by now
Dec 08 14:52:45 <mickeyl> the language looks strange to me
Dec 08 14:52:54 <mickeyl> must be because I loathe Java 
Dec 08 14:52:55 <mickeyl> :)
Dec 08 14:54:21 <mickeyl> i guess I'd rather wait for gtk+ 2.6.12 and make openmoko fit for the new ui builder architecture
Dec 08 14:54:31 <mickeyl> less code is the best code
Dec 08 14:54:32 <mickeyl> heh
Dec 08 14:55:36 <robtaylor> yeah, one of these days i dreaom of having css style stylesheeting for gtk
Dec 08 14:55:58 <mickeyl> *nod* gtk+ can learn a bit from qt in that regard
Dec 08 15:59:22 <noidd> new ui builder arch?
Dec 08 16:09:25 <timtimred> have to admit i didnt do any gtk stuff tho
Dec 08 16:09:32 <timtimred> yet
Dec 08 16:19:05 <noidd> its no biggie
Dec 08 16:19:11 <noidd> its just another widget set
Dec 08 16:19:22 <noidd> just a slightly different approach
Dec 08 16:19:29 <buz> sometimes i think it's more of a religion
Dec 08 16:22:00 <robtaylor> buz: well, once you start doing gobject code, it kinda gets hard to stop..
Dec 08 16:22:18 <robtaylor> not because its great or anything, but its just.. hard.. ;)
Dec 08 16:25:18 <buz> http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=503777&postcount=169 i want THAT with linux
Dec 08 16:27:22 <buz> that is essentially the road device i guess
Dec 08 16:29:11 <noidd> buz: it is.
Dec 08 16:29:37 <buz> but a from company that can ship in volume
Dec 08 16:29:43 <buz> oh wait is has gps
Dec 08 16:29:50 <buz> road doesnt have that
Dec 08 16:31:18 <buz> then again this will likely cost more than a htc universal
Dec 08 16:54:54 <noidd> incidentally, my cellphone started dying yesterday
Dec 08 16:55:04 <noidd> it won't retain a charge now for longer than 3 hours
Dec 08 16:55:14 <noidd> and its not the battery cos I tested it in the missus phone
Dec 08 17:02:43 <buz> i'd get a 30? phone for the time being ;)
Dec 08 17:13:28 <noidd> thats prolly what i'm going to do
Dec 08 17:13:32 <noidd> just frustrating
Dec 08 17:13:53 <noidd> What is interesting is taht my cellphone has two forms on data transfer
Dec 08 17:14:02 <noidd> and one is unlimited use, the other is charged
Dec 08 17:14:18 <noidd> on my treo - any data transfer I do from my phone is free
Dec 08 17:14:30 <noidd> however, if I use it as a modem, I get charged by byte
Dec 08 17:14:37 <noidd> how on earth is that configured.
Dec 09 00:46:44 <marcion> Hello, does anyone know if the OpenMoko will have a Python interpreter available?
Dec 09 01:23:38 <g4lt-mordant> marcion, since iit'll prolly just use glibc, it shouldn't be hard to gin one up if it doesn't
Dec 09 01:43:59 <marcion> cool
Dec 09 01:44:13 <marcion> it if can build gtk then python should not be too bad
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 09 02:59:58 2006