**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 13 02:59:57 2006
Dec 13 14:17:26 <hrw|work> mickeyl: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12/13/neo_models_micro_phone/
Dec 13 14:19:11 <hrw|work> just similiar naming?
Dec 13 14:22:18 <mickeyl> d'oh
Dec 13 14:22:20 <mickeyl> yeah
Dec 13 14:22:25 * mickeyl forwards to Sean
Dec 13 14:23:44 <mickeyl> that case looks sexy 
Dec 13 14:25:11 <cephdon> mickeyl: you sure your not looking at the model?  hehe
Dec 13 14:25:20 <mickeyl> hehehe
Dec 13 14:25:32 <mickeyl> i don't like her haircut
Dec 13 14:25:37 <mickeyl> although the color's good
Dec 13 14:25:43 * mickeyl adores blondes
Dec 13 14:25:58 <cephdon> bah.. who cares about the haircut / style.. that can be changed anytime.. hehe
Dec 13 14:26:04 <mickeyl> true
Dec 13 14:26:39 <mickeyl> so, today no time for OpenMoko work... i need to clean up my office
Dec 13 14:26:42 <mickeyl> it's a MESS
Dec 13 14:26:49 <mickeyl> can't find anything
Dec 13 14:26:52 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Dec 13 14:27:00 <mickeyl> i need a larger office
Dec 13 14:27:15 <mickeyl> pondering whether to rent one
Dec 13 14:28:58 <nnpiggy> A larger office takes longer to clean...
Dec 13 14:29:39 <mickeyl> true enough, but I feel I'm more productive with a clean office
Dec 13 15:01:29 <nnpiggy> Can anybody comment on the FCC certification process for the Neo?
Dec 13 15:01:43 <hrw|work> good question
Dec 13 15:02:25 <nnpiggy> In particular, what's the legal exposure for playing with prototypes?
Dec 13 15:03:53 <nnpiggy> I guess I have a question for the list.
Dec 13 15:23:23 <mickeyl> i guess that's no problem, since our GSM module is precertified
Dec 13 15:23:48 <nnpiggy> Ah, thanks, mickeyl. 
Dec 13 15:23:56 <nnpiggy> There's a part 15 cert need too, no?
Dec 13 15:24:05 <mickeyl> no idea about details, sorry
Dec 13 15:24:14 <mickeyl> <--- mainly software guy
Dec 13 15:25:19 <nnpiggy> That's OK. I've sent the same note to the community list.
Dec 13 15:26:07 <mickeyl> ok cool, Sean can comment in more detail
Dec 13 15:26:29 <nnpiggy> Thanks. I'm really excited about the work you folks are doing.
Dec 13 15:27:07 <nnpiggy> As an ex-Motorola employee I have had no end of frustration with closed cellular platforms.
Dec 13 15:27:31 <nnpiggy> Even as an employee it was a pain to get technical specs and control information for our own phones...
Dec 13 15:27:43 <xorAxAx> hehe
Dec 13 15:27:50 <mickeyl> heh. crazy
Dec 13 15:28:00 <mickeyl> sounds like HP
Dec 13 15:28:12 <mickeyl> who had severe problems getting specs for their own *cough* ipaqs
Dec 13 15:29:01 <nnpiggy> I built a load testing system for a mixed-technology infrastructure...
Dec 13 15:29:32 <nnpiggy> We had GSM, CDMA, iDEN, POTS, and VoIP all on the same IP-based switching infrastructure.
Dec 13 15:29:55 <nnpiggy> I had to generate traffic on the network with physical phones. It was an interesting exercise...
Dec 13 15:29:59 <xorAxAx> how do you switch POTS? :)
Dec 13 15:30:06 <mickeyl> interesting. so you're a hardware guy mainly?
Dec 13 15:30:24 <xorAxAx> hmm, you had some indians that used pots phones to talk to each other? :)
Dec 13 15:30:27 <nnpiggy> POTS is all PCM these days almost at the hand set...
Dec 13 15:30:45 <nnpiggy> I'm mainly software, but I like getting my hands dirty :-).
Dec 13 15:30:57 <mickeyl> heh. excellent. so you know about linux kernel programming?
Dec 13 15:30:59 <nnpiggy> System software and infrastructure automation.
Dec 13 15:31:04 <mickeyl> automation is good
Dec 13 15:31:14 <xorAxAx> nnpiggy: ISDN is pcm almost at the handset :)
Dec 13 15:31:18 <nnpiggy> I was one of the 15 invited speakers at the first kernel summit.
Dec 13 15:31:27 <mickeyl> wow. that's cool
Dec 13 15:31:34 <xorAxAx> linux kernel?
Dec 13 15:31:38 <nnpiggy> ISDN: technology of the future and always will be :-).
Dec 13 15:31:54 <nnpiggy> xorAxAx is there ANOTHER kernel? :-)
Dec 13 15:32:29 * nnpiggy is always happy to find an audience that appreciates his minor form of fame :-).
Dec 13 15:32:52 <xorAxAx> nnpiggy: yes, hail minix
Dec 13 15:33:14 <nnpiggy> Yeah, not a bad Xinu clone :-)...
Dec 13 15:33:32 <nnpiggy> Ever hear of Coherent?
Dec 13 15:33:40 <xorAxAx> coherent unix!
Dec 13 15:33:58 <xorAxAx> the only guys that wrote man pages
Dec 13 15:34:16 <nnpiggy> I wrote the tertiary boot loader, some of the filesystem code, and a few drivers.
Dec 13 15:34:33 <nnpiggy> Yeah, lepanto is an awsome writer. I miss him.
Dec 13 15:34:41 <mickeyl> woot! good stuff
Dec 13 15:34:47 <mickeyl> i've seen that a couple of years ago
Dec 13 15:35:27 <nnpiggy> Fred Butzen. Wow, I'd forgotten his real name--had to look it up.
Dec 13 15:36:22 <nnpiggy> So, mickeyl, do you have my postal address? :-)
Dec 13 15:36:40 <mickeyl> hehe. what do you want me to send? :D
Dec 13 15:38:29 <nnpiggy> A Neo naturally...
Dec 13 15:38:46 * nnpiggy has wife-approved money to spend too...
Dec 13 15:38:54 <mickeyl> sure thing... however let's talk when we have the next run of prototypes
Dec 13 15:39:06 <koen> mickeyl: have you read http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7621761066.html ?
Dec 13 15:39:06 <koen> mickeyl: I would be interested in an account from sean, you and harald about using OE as a company
Dec 13 15:39:12 <nnpiggy> Cool. Keep me in mind.
Dec 13 15:39:18 <nnpiggy> What is OE?
Dec 13 15:39:20 <mickeyl> nnpiggy: will do.
Dec 13 15:39:56 <mickeyl> koen: no. looks good. let me read that
Dec 13 15:39:57 <mickeyl> bbl
Dec 13 15:40:04 <koen> nnpiggy: openembedded.org
Dec 13 15:41:36 <nnpiggy> Hmm... That's a lot like DistBuilder which I built for TimeSys. Looks good...
Dec 13 15:44:14 <nnpiggy> koen, I'm reading your note about GPL problems for small source distributors...
Dec 13 15:45:44 <nnpiggy> This is a position which the FSF took on GPL compliance which they have since weakened a bit.
Dec 13 15:45:47 <noidd> Rather cheekily, Neo claims the 808i has an FM radio, before admitting programming is actually picked up over pay-per-packet GPRS.
Dec 13 15:45:49 <noidd> :-P
Dec 13 15:45:51 <nnpiggy> later, mickeyl.
Dec 13 16:09:57 <jthomas> good morning world!
Dec 13 16:10:28 <jthomas> does anyone know about the hardware specs on the FIC Neo1973 smartphone?
Dec 13 16:10:51 <jthomas> specifically, will it have WiFi, or how does one apt-get a new application?
Dec 13 16:10:58 <jthomas> Does it have an RJ45?
Dec 13 16:11:14 <jthomas> can the USB port be used for an internet connection?
Dec 13 16:11:24 <jthomas> can the USB be used for an external keybd?
Dec 13 16:20:45 <mickey|devel> specs: see openmoko.com
Dec 13 16:20:48 <mickey|devel> wifi: no
Dec 13 16:21:04 <mickey|devel> internet access via gprs
Dec 13 16:21:08 <mickey|devel> no rj45
Dec 13 16:21:29 <mickey|devel> usb host port is unfortunately unpowered, so you need a battery powered hub to connect gadgets
Dec 13 16:26:10 <jthomas> sorry, could you explain gprs?
Dec 13 16:26:23 <jthomas> i've been to the page a billion times cause i am excited for this
Dec 13 16:28:13 <jthomas> also is there removable storage?  like the 64MB NAND, can that be upgraded?
Dec 13 16:28:31 <koen> nand can't be upgraded
Dec 13 16:28:39 <koen> you can put in a 1GB microsd card
Dec 13 16:28:40 <jthomas> good to know
Dec 13 16:29:11 <jthomas> oh i see it has a micro-SD slot
Dec 13 16:29:18 <jthomas> cool
Dec 13 16:30:08 <mickey|devel> the last word on NAND size isn't spoken either
Dec 13 16:30:14 * mickey|devel pushing for mooooooooore
Dec 13 16:30:30 <jthomas> good to hear that!
Dec 13 16:31:55 <jthomas> so if i want to do any sort of data transfer or ssh'ing, i'll have to pay by the MB due to GPRS?  I have a small Linksys thingy that connects an Ethernet plug to a USB port, would that allow me to get data w/o GPRS charges?
Dec 13 16:34:08 <jthomas> also, does the GPRS require that I have a phone contract with GPRS, or is it built-in to a regular celular service (TMobile USA)
Dec 13 16:35:27 <hrw|work> mickey|devel: 1GB nand?
Dec 13 16:35:35 <koen> if you use it without a contract it's $$$$$$$
Dec 13 16:35:54 <jthomas> meaning, VERY MUCH $ ???
Dec 13 16:36:12 <koen> like $20 per MB
Dec 13 16:36:18 <jthomas> dizzamn
Dec 13 16:36:20 <koen> maybe more if your telco is evil
Dec 13 16:36:26 <jthomas> which isn't??
Dec 13 16:37:21 <jthomas> hmmm sounds like it could get rather expensive just to run the phone...
Dec 13 16:38:07 <jthomas> can programs be apt-get'ed when the device is plugged into USB?  or, does anyone know if an ethernet-into-usb would work?
Dec 13 16:38:54 <hrw|work> cu
Dec 13 16:39:01 <mickey|devel> cu hrw
Dec 13 16:39:33 <mickey|devel> yes, ethernet-over-usb works already
Dec 13 16:39:49 <jthomas> great thats huge
Dec 13 16:40:11 <koen> mickey|devel: thank $deity that you didn't use xscales
Dec 13 16:40:48 <jthomas> k youse seem busy, i'll let you be.  thanks for the info and i can't wait for this.  no one is getting xmas gifts this year so that i can afford one! lol they will, i kid.  ciao!
Dec 13 16:41:14 <mickey|devel> koen: why? xscale would've been much faster :/
Dec 13 16:41:20 <mickey|devel> s3c2410 is slooow
Dec 13 16:41:28 <koen> mickey|devel: and completely broken udc
Dec 13 16:41:34 <mickey|devel> if it was my decision i'd like to have a pxa270 in
Dec 13 16:41:38 <mickey|devel> that bad?
Dec 13 16:41:40 <koen> yes
Dec 13 16:41:49 <koen> pxa255 was bad , but pxa270 is plain broken
Dec 13 16:42:01 <mickey|devel> jthomas: you're welcome :)
Dec 13 16:42:51 <koen> mickey|devel: keep the pxa250 in mind, things haven't been improved a lot since that mess
Dec 13 17:03:47 <nnpiggy> mickey|devel, what is the 8-channel ADC used for?
Dec 13 17:16:33 <mickey|devel> no idea. might be a question for the list
Dec 13 17:27:30 <nnpiggy> More digging suggests that it is used for the touch screen. Oh well...
Dec 13 17:53:04 <_buz> 1GB nand pleeeeease
Dec 13 17:53:27 <_buz> that might free up the microsd slot for something else
Dec 13 17:53:59 <koen> and pray / doesn't get too big
Dec 13 17:54:11 <koen> uboot still has a crappy jffs2 driver last I checked
Dec 13 17:54:23 <koen> (jffs2 is crappy regardless)
Dec 13 17:55:47 <_buz> mhh / should not be a problem
Dec 13 17:55:49 <_buz> but i could easily see /usr go over 64mb
Dec 13 17:56:17 <_buz> considering that retail price for 1gb flash is below 20USD this would make a lot of sense
Dec 13 17:57:31 <koen> I hope for large NAND as well
Dec 13 17:57:39 <koen> and a /home partition
Dec 13 17:57:51 <_buz> well you're free to get yourself one i guess ;)
Dec 13 17:57:54 <koen> (that, or a insanely good backup app)
Dec 13 17:58:04 <_buz> dd *EG*
Dec 13 17:58:13 <koen> I personally don't want to mess with flash partitioning
Dec 13 17:58:20 <koen> no-one should IMO
Dec 13 17:58:42 <_buz> is there a halfway usable writable flash FS for linux, anyway?
Dec 13 17:58:50 <koen> logfs
Dec 13 17:59:13 <_buz> been thinking of converting my notebook to flash only ;)
Dec 13 18:10:51 <rox> buz: what's wrink with ext2 on flash?
Dec 13 18:10:57 <rox> wrong
Dec 13 18:11:07 <buz> doesnt do write leveling for all i know
Dec 13 18:11:40 <rox> from the user point of wiev ... it seemed to server its purpose
Dec 13 18:12:16 <koen> ext2 is designed for harddisks
Dec 13 18:12:36 <koen> with superblocks at fixed positions
Dec 13 18:12:46 <rox> i know ... but it did the job on flash for me
Dec 13 18:12:55 <buz> for a while
Dec 13 18:13:18 <koen> large flash chips are usually MLC
Dec 13 18:13:26 <koen> which only has 10k erase cycles
Dec 13 18:13:35 <koen> instead of the usual 100k
Dec 13 18:20:12 <cbpage> jffs2?
Dec 13 18:29:01 <dagb> Is the January 2007 ETA the date for commercial availability?
Dec 13 18:29:20 <buz> we think so
Dec 13 21:25:34 <noidd> or just patent it :-D
Dec 13 21:25:57 <noidd> mt :-)
Dec 13 21:26:00 <hrw> ?
Dec 13 22:56:06 <xhrit> is this channel active?
Dec 13 22:59:14 <mickey|sports> sometimes yes, sometimes no
Dec 13 22:59:53 <xhrit> hmm...
Dec 13 23:00:22 <mickeyl> mostly during european work hours :)
Dec 13 23:00:49 <xhrit> what is the 3d like on the openmoko?
Dec 13 23:01:21 <mickeyl> 3d? as in opengl? no way. it's an unaccellerated framebuffer attached to a relatively slow SoC
Dec 13 23:01:45 <mickeyl> and now floating point -- as most arm SoCs
Dec 13 23:01:49 <mickeyl> s/now/no/
Dec 13 23:01:49 <apt> mickeyl meant: and no floating point -- as most arm SoCs
Dec 13 23:02:53 <xhrit> so i should stick to the xgp for my mobile 3d linux fix?
Dec 13 23:03:05 <xhrit> what about teh OS, is it going to be portable to other devices?
Dec 13 23:03:06 <mickeyl> definitly yeah
Dec 13 23:03:41 <mickeyl> OS is Linux + Gtk + custom widgets. The idea is to port the platform to other smartphones eventually
Dec 13 23:03:54 <mickeyl> e.g. MOTO
Dec 13 23:03:55 <xhrit> cool.
Dec 13 23:03:57 <mickeyl> and HTC
Dec 13 23:04:03 <xhrit> and xgp?
Dec 13 23:04:35 <mickeyl> if someone is interested, sure. everything will be opened once the phone ships
Dec 13 23:04:43 <xhrit> cool.
Dec 14 00:04:36 <mickeyl> g'night
Dec 14 01:11:14 <djlosch> anyone at keys?
Dec 14 01:14:02 <djlosch> looking for docs on finding out how to sync (or at least access) linux based cellphones
Dec 14 01:16:09 <robtaylor> djlosch: in what sense?
Dec 14 01:16:56 <robtaylor> as in syncing addressbook, celender etc? providing a service on a device or accessing?
Dec 14 01:21:44 <djlosch> accessing the system memory
Dec 14 01:22:15 <djlosch> eventually i'd get to syncing address/calender etc with evolution
Dec 14 01:22:28 <djlosch> but for the time, i want to be able to access the system memory
Dec 14 01:22:50 <djlosch> i can mount the microsd card in it
Dec 14 01:23:32 <djlosch> apparently not many people have the phone, so i cant find any docs around
Dec 14 01:24:20 <djlosch> (motorola a1200)
Dec 14 01:27:22 <djlosch> thing is that i don't exactly know where to start
Dec 14 02:05:01 <robtaylor> djlosch: you shouldask on openexz, there'ssome guys there with a1200
Dec 14 02:05:40 <djlosch> thanks
Dec 14 02:05:50 <djlosch> im lookin at the motorola docs and they're pretty lame
Dec 14 02:06:28 <djlosch> #openexz ?
Dec 14 02:06:32 <djlosch> on freenode?
Dec 14 02:07:42 <djlosch> had to sign up as a dev on motorola to get anything decent, and even the dev docs are pretty weak
Dec 14 02:55:43 <robtaylor> djlosch: yeah on freenode
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 14 02:59:57 2006