**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 02 02:59:57 2007 Jan 02 12:38:44 is there a known date when the neo1973 comes out? Jan 02 12:40:18 dont know Jan 02 12:40:29 see topic Jan 02 12:40:29 maybe on neo site.. Jan 02 12:40:49 january Jan 02 12:40:57 no day? Jan 02 12:41:00 nope Jan 02 12:41:08 k Jan 02 12:41:20 stay tuned until Jan 31st, 23:59, for any announcements Jan 02 12:41:26 lol Jan 02 12:41:28 :) Jan 02 12:42:05 hope won't be on 1st april Jan 02 12:42:18 aha Jan 02 12:42:24 yeah, that would blow Jan 02 12:42:44 * koen is guessing 20070301 Jan 02 12:43:58 perhaps a competiotion... with some free beer @fosdem? Jan 02 12:44:17 what is the FIC's homepage? Jan 02 12:44:26 i cant find out Jan 02 12:44:45 see topic Jan 02 12:44:53 its only the first match @google... hard Jan 02 12:44:59 no that is for openmoko Jan 02 12:45:12 fic.com.tw Jan 02 12:45:15 ok Jan 02 12:45:22 greentux: google, what's that? Jan 02 12:45:24 i was googling with .it Jan 02 12:45:33 shit doomed google Jan 02 12:46:12 koen: can we config the bot, that he answer the questions? Jan 02 12:46:18 yea Jan 02 12:46:27 ! Jan 02 12:46:47 greentux: I view it as a turing test Jan 02 12:47:35 koen: yeah... ok. do You know if there beerevent will taking place? Jan 02 12:48:02 yes, at friday, at the roy d'espagne Jan 02 12:48:35 ok, fine. Jan 02 12:48:42 hmm, it seems I have to arrive at friday not saturday. :) Jan 02 12:48:59 stefan_schmidt: of cource. So we should change the topic @ #oe Jan 02 12:49:52 beers... Jan 02 12:49:57 heh Jan 02 12:58:37 * yacc wonders why the fic.com.tw website does not mention the phone at all? Jan 02 12:58:56 yacc: because phone does not exists yet Jan 02 12:58:59 because its not released yet? Jan 02 12:59:24 Announcments of vaporware are a tradition in the industry? *g* Jan 02 12:59:36 fic does not yet even know what will be in final phone... Jan 02 12:59:48 bluetoth or not bluetooth... Jan 02 13:00:12 * mickeyl paints a tooth blue and sticks it into his devel board Jan 02 13:02:01 mickeyl: convince the hw dudes to silkscreen a blue tooth onto the board Jan 02 13:02:11 heh, yeah Jan 02 13:03:02 who needs warranty anyway? Jan 02 13:03:05 koen: MACHINE_KERNEL_VERSION = 2.6 is useless in angstrom.conf Jan 02 13:03:11 ops. wrong chan Jan 02 13:05:48 ty all gtg Jan 02 13:05:49 bye Jan 02 13:06:19 hrw: Somehow I still don't get it how they do not know the specs of something that is scheduled to ship this month. Jan 02 13:06:45 yacc: thats something which bother me too Jan 02 13:07:39 They know the specs. Only bluetooth is undecided yet. This makes just two different hardware revs. Jan 02 13:08:18 Well, if they manage, that's fine, because that implies either very good NDAs on the people that do know, or a very flexible and fast manufacturing. Jan 02 13:09:33 they should just stick the BT on it and let the people out there fix it Jan 02 13:09:40 I heard about 100.000 phones/month manufactering. Not sure about it Jan 02 13:09:48 yeah i heard that too Jan 02 13:09:56 it's not that much when you think about it Jan 02 13:09:57 Still makes one wonder. I mean the developer boxes are easy, "we" will be capable of reflashing the gadgets, but still. Jan 02 13:10:00 buz: Fix the hardware? Jan 02 13:10:07 i thought the software didnt work Jan 02 13:10:12 stefan_schmidt: the factory should be able to do 30k/day Jan 02 13:10:12 drivers or some such Jan 02 13:10:25 koen: wow, ok Jan 02 13:10:25 if the chip itself is broken it's the wrong chip really Jan 02 13:10:45 buz: Chip integration on the PCB is not that easy. Jan 02 13:10:52 these pcb wave soldering machines are mighty impressive things Jan 02 13:10:58 stefan_schmidt: so it would seem Jan 02 13:11:10 If the hardware work with BT, they will ship it with BT. For sure. Jan 02 13:11:28 well there's different grades of "work" Jan 02 13:11:38 if the reception is bad, that still might be useful to some Jan 02 13:12:03 I don't know the exactly problem. Jan 02 13:12:15 but if it gets dropped every 30s its not very useful anymore Jan 02 13:12:15 More important, I wonder how much the phones are cheaper than the WinMobiles? (/me is curious how big the MS tax is on these phones ;) ) Jan 02 13:12:17 But I know they work hard to get it working. :) Jan 02 13:13:09 i just wonder, if they have so much trouble with BT, then maybe lack of WiFi is more of an engineering issue than anything else Jan 02 13:13:46 buz: adding BT is much easier then adding wifi Jan 02 13:14:05 BT can be serial attached and simple controlled Jan 02 13:14:10 exactly Jan 02 13:14:15 wifi is more complicated Jan 02 13:14:16 buz: I can't say for sure, but don't think so. Wifi and linux are still a big pita. Especially for low power devices. Jan 02 13:14:21 and the demands on rf are smaller as well Jan 02 13:14:23 and bt makes more sense in a phone Jan 02 13:14:51 And of course they need sometime for the next phone. ;) Jan 02 13:15:16 well that could also mean people deciding to wait Jan 02 13:15:52 right, but it's to late now. Jan 02 13:16:01 * mickeyl mutters something about all UARTs being full hence BT is going to be USB Jan 02 13:16:24 is there an internal hub then? Jan 02 13:17:01 think so, otherwise we'd lost usb host and that would be dumb Jan 02 13:17:14 pretty much so Jan 02 13:17:20 unless of course the soc really has two ports Jan 02 13:17:33 oh right Jan 02 13:17:34 let me check Jan 02 13:17:51 * mickeyl reads http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/Support/ebrochure/systemlsi/2410_ds_200408.pdf Jan 02 13:18:13 hmm cool Jan 02 13:18:30 2-channel host (1 channel host, 1 channel switchable host/client) Jan 02 13:19:00 looks similar to pxa271 Jan 02 13:19:48 the "omfg-megahurtz"- architecture Jan 02 13:21:37 i wonder how long it will take for someone to overclock the soc Jan 02 13:21:41 stefan_schmidt: pxa isn't an ARM ltd core Jan 02 13:22:26 koen: right, I just meant 2-channel host stuff Jan 02 13:23:09 somehow it seems kinda unimportant just who designed the thing Jan 02 13:26:37 buz: it makes it easier to compare apples with apples Jan 02 13:27:16 'arm920t core' will perform the same as 'arm920t core' Jan 02 13:27:48 so I know the s3c2410 has about the same performance as my ep9312 Jan 02 13:27:57 well yes Jan 02 13:28:09 but in essence performance per watt is more important than how its achievec Jan 02 13:28:33 if you look at performance per watt intel doesn't even come into play Jan 02 13:29:07 i think intel doesnt actually sell anymore anyway so Jan 02 13:29:18 s/intel/marvell/ Jan 02 13:29:19 koen meant: if you look at performance per watt marvell doesn't even come into play Jan 02 13:29:27 * buz is nitpicking Jan 02 13:31:00 and cleaning my flat Jan 02 13:31:33 * koen is eating springrolls Jan 02 13:32:31 goes without saying that i hate cleaning Jan 02 13:34:31 cu Jan 02 14:01:00 * yacc wonders if he did his daily whine today. Jan 02 14:06:12 .. /last yacc .. hm, seems so, well almost anyways :) Jan 02 14:12:53 sannes: Well, bouncer proxies are an incredible nice thing ;) Jan 02 14:14:32 bouncer proxies? Jan 02 14:16:43 ah, well this is a screen, yes :) was in a mobilephone mood, just quite didn't get it .. altough bouncer proxies would be very nice if you were to irc chat now and then from a celluar .. hm Jan 02 14:21:08 * sannes is going to try to wait until 31.januar before he starts whining, .. the more delay the more I can work on my master thesis :) Jan 02 14:26:08 sannes: thats why i wont buy it in january anyway Jan 02 14:26:18 exams until mid february ;) Jan 02 14:27:37 might match well *cough* Jan 02 14:27:59 well 2 weeks late is still good compared to some other companies Jan 02 14:28:39 hello everybody Jan 02 14:29:42 sannes, good idea Jan 02 14:31:38 this is interesting Jan 02 14:31:48 for a change, i'm told to MAKE UP research results Jan 02 14:32:12 (no it's not a sponsored study) Jan 02 14:34:53 buz: "the results clearly indicate that everyone should put money into bank account #### to better the world and achive world peace .. " Jan 02 14:49:48 sannes: i'm studying economics, somehow i doubt THEY would fall for THAT Jan 02 14:50:38 does anybody have some news on the public release of the openmoko phone ? Jan 02 14:50:58 no Jan 02 14:52:11 ok thanks :-) Jan 02 14:54:57 sannes: I can chat from my Nokia 9500 ;) Jan 02 14:55:44 sannes: That's the reason why I have a ctrl-proxy running on a colocated server, and for "legacy" reasons a xchat in a VNC session that does the bridging between irc and jabber. Jan 02 14:56:57 * Stephmw pats cgi::irc Jan 02 14:57:17 running sshd on port 443 is useful too Jan 02 14:58:10 Stephmw: Well, it's necessary for me because there is no sensible irc client for Symbian phones. Jan 02 15:01:23 yacc: on my p910 I putty'd into a SCREEN session running irssi... ok, I'm a masochist :) Jan 02 15:01:41 yacc: I'd played with qirc as well Jan 02 15:03:41 Stephmw: p910 will almost certainly be an UIQ phone right? UIQ != Series 80 :(( Jan 02 15:04:28 symbian, schmymbian Jan 02 15:04:55 Stephmw: putty + irssi => I'm not that masochistic ;) Jan 02 15:05:32 koen: Name me a more open platform with a sensible keyboard? (Not that the Nokia kbd is that good) Jan 02 15:06:07 yacc: depending on where in the food chain you are, everything's open ;) Jan 02 15:07:33 yacc: what has software todo with a keyboard? Jan 02 15:08:41 Well, which food chain? Jan 02 15:08:41 koen: I asked for a platform class that provides platform instances with specific features. Jan 02 15:09:11 koen: As I'm not capable of designing/building my own phone, I need something that I can barter for real or virtual money ;) Jan 02 15:10:59 yacc: the mobile platform food chain... manufacturer->operator->reseller->user/developer/etc... I mean the platform I work on is wide open to me... but that's because I'm at the manufacturer level Jan 02 15:13:27 user Jan 02 15:14:27 Stephmw: self employed developer/admin contractor under the heading of Python/C++/Linux ;) Jan 02 15:14:30 * koen introduces PEBKAT Jan 02 15:14:41 PEBKAT? Jan 02 15:15:10 D'oh Jan 02 15:15:15 PEBTAC Jan 02 15:15:27 Problem Exists Between Touchscreen and Chair Jan 02 15:16:09 yacc: believe me, once the SO gets herself a job, I'm seriously thinking of greener pastures Jan 02 15:16:35 koen :DD Jan 02 15:17:28 koen: new interaction hardware: strokepad and niplstick Jan 02 15:17:50 Stephmw: And technically it does not mean that much. Just because say I work currently on entertainment systems with a big car manufacturer, does not mean that I can include an ssh client into them ;) Jan 02 15:19:47 yacc: likewise - I'd be hung and quartered if I dared Jan 02 15:20:46 *g* Guess you are working for a harsh employeer ;) Jan 02 15:21:19 OTOH, as an "external" contractor, most employeers have way less control about my behaviour ;) Jan 02 15:21:58 here it's more a case that I can guarantee it wouldn't slip through QA Jan 02 15:22:08 I love it when the local laws basically force them to do be so lenient ;) (Well, if they specify to much into the contract, they may get sued for employee benefits ;) ) Jan 02 15:22:34 Well, it wouldn't slip through QA neither here ;) Jan 02 15:24:43 That's why I want the FIC phone with or without Bluetooth. BT would be nice, but I don't use it that much. (Technically speaking, I don't even know if one can get points in Flensburg for using the phone while driving *g*) Jan 02 15:25:37 aye, BT isn't such a big thing for me either Jan 02 15:26:05 it's not as if it could chat to my greenphone anyway (their BT driver isn't working yet) Jan 02 15:26:08 :) Jan 02 15:43:07 yacc: i think you get points for not using a headset Jan 02 15:43:22 (at least in ch, you get nasty fines for that. and deservedly so) Jan 02 15:54:08 buz: Well, using a wired headset is way more dangerous than no headset I'd say ;) Jan 02 15:59:34 well if you have manual transmission, it's pretty much impossible to hold a phone while driving Jan 02 15:59:52 I disagree Jan 02 15:59:54 and i very much favor manual transmission myself Jan 02 16:00:09 you cant hold a handset and drive safely with a manual Jan 02 16:00:14 maybe not when you're zaphod beeblebrox Jan 02 16:00:17 and got like 3 or 4 arms Jan 02 16:00:24 you cant talk and concentrate properly with hands free either :) Jan 02 16:00:35 timtimred: thats true Jan 02 16:00:42 but it's legal to talk to other passengers Jan 02 16:00:49 so handsfree ought to be legal as well Jan 02 16:01:01 /clear Jan 02 16:02:54 HF is required for mobiles here in Finland by law too. Curiously, (though and I haven't checked this myself) those old-style mobile phones permanently installed in the car are excempt from the requirement. Jan 02 16:03:53 not like theres any number of them anyhow ;= Jan 02 16:04:20 and in the UK for a while now Jan 02 16:05:13 buz, yeah, pretty much extinct Jan 02 16:05:27 buz: What car are you driving? Most diesels have enough dynamic torque that one has to switch gear only seldom. Plus I've got a tiptronic anyway. ;) Jan 02 16:05:41 not a diesel Jan 02 16:06:14 technically that yaris ts doesnt need the 1st gear either but it's probably better for the transmission not to always start in the 3rd Jan 02 16:06:38 (its not my car anyway) Jan 02 16:06:44 buz: My wife's new car got a manual transmission, but it basically got no "Turbo hole", so it goes uphill quite nicely below 1000rpm ;) Jan 02 16:07:02 new diesel are pretty much turbo lag free Jan 02 16:07:19 but even with particle filters they still stink Jan 02 16:07:36 buz: yeah. My wife vetoed only two of my propositions (the tiptronic and the stronger engine :( ). Jan 02 16:08:00 oh i got my mother to buy the sport edition ;) Jan 02 16:08:09 (which i consider to be no small feat ;) Jan 02 16:08:31 no honestly, the basic engine was so lousy even she had to acknowledge it Jan 02 16:08:51 buz: as long as Diesel is so much cheaper to operate, plus has the better engines (yeah, nowadays power and torque are usually way better with Diesels), I see no argument to buy a gasoline car ;) Jan 02 16:09:19 diesel is consistently about as much more expensive here as the cars need less of it Jan 02 16:09:35 and there are not really many small cars with a decent diesel Jan 02 16:10:53 buz: That's only a question what you define as "small car" ;) Jan 02 16:11:03 <3.80m Jan 02 16:12:43 buz: Guess that's not the definition of my wife ;) Jan 02 16:13:55 But I don't think that she meant to buy a small car, it's only the "small car inside the family" ;) Jan 02 16:16:04 * koen hugs diesel engines Jan 02 16:16:19 VW makes great diesel engines Jan 02 16:17:08 diesel won le mans this year! Jan 02 16:17:14 erm last year! Jan 02 16:18:24 * koen waits for the .br people to chime in with their alcohol operated engines Jan 02 16:18:50 or the hippies with their chip fat powered camper vans Jan 02 16:19:39 "i'm sorry officer, but the ethanol splashed around when i filled up" Jan 02 16:24:43 apparently Sean's coming to Finland in late Feb and I've just volunteered to ask around if there'd be interest for a community meetup with him Jan 02 16:25:32 sucks to be me Jan 02 16:47:32 if i was in finland, i'd come ;) Jan 02 16:48:07 yeah, thanks :] Jan 02 18:49:26 e Jan 02 18:50:24 I completely agree Jan 02 18:51:59 d Jan 02 18:58:46 c Jan 02 18:59:58 sorry guys Jan 02 19:00:05 I'm allowed one typo a year :-P Jan 02 19:01:26 I don't wish to sound impatient but it's January. :-D Jan 02 19:02:09 and will be for 29 days :] Jan 02 19:17:08 should have an offical count down to when people can start whining :) Jan 02 19:18:19 isnt it a countdown for when people stop whining? :) Jan 02 19:18:48 well, could always stop the count down if it released :) Jan 02 19:19:29 nah Jan 02 19:19:36 let's countdown to v2 Jan 02 19:19:57 when was that coming again? jan 08 ? :P Jan 02 19:20:58 april or something Jan 02 19:21:29 wow, then this will be the shortest time between phone upgrade for me :) Jan 02 19:29:36 heh http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/ Jan 02 19:29:46 "No messages have been posted to this list yet, so the archives are currently empty." Jan 02 19:33:07 If its that soon they may just start with v2 Jan 02 19:33:09 hehe, I wonder .. does anyone know if Neo1973 can boot without a sim card? Jan 02 19:33:21 I would assume so sannes Jan 02 19:33:39 it is fundimentally an arm based linux machine with a cellphone attached by a serial port. Jan 02 19:34:26 Is there a bootloader for it so I can choose kernel on boot or what? :P Jan 02 19:35:01 yes, uboot Jan 02 19:35:54 nice :) I'm looking so much forward to getting my hands on one of those :) Jan 02 19:38:28 altought I suspect you need serial access to select the kernel on boot Jan 02 19:39:19 maybe hack uboot to add simple text+input on the lcd Jan 02 19:39:21 do I have to do any modding to get to it or can I use a usb serial cable? Jan 02 19:39:27 that'll be for later :) Jan 02 19:41:30 uboot, does that have a homepage ? Jan 02 19:42:31 ~google uboot Jan 02 19:43:14 didn't find it on freshmeat .. Jan 02 19:44:01 http://u-boot.sourceforge.net/ Jan 02 19:44:25 ah u-boot :) Jan 02 19:47:36 yeah, they changed the spelling Jan 02 19:52:50 hm, initrd support, maybe I should go all out with an encrypted filesystem :D Jan 02 19:53:02 sannes: it's been suggested on the ml :) Jan 02 19:53:31 sannes: add a dial-home and a few more things and it becomes very interesting Jan 02 19:55:02 Stephmw: there are so many cool things to do with this thing, what would have been cool is to use the gps as part of the key for the filesystem.. so you have to be at a special location to start the phone :P Jan 02 19:55:18 well that or hack it .. heh Jan 02 19:55:31 or only usable in particular areas Jan 02 19:55:35 etc, etc Jan 02 19:56:33 Maybe "locate nearest friend in addressbook" :P Jan 02 19:56:44 (probably suggested already .. heh) Jan 02 19:57:54 it's been kinda ruled out by operators ;) Jan 02 19:57:58 privacy concerns ;-) Jan 02 19:58:34 of course, you'd also need all your friends to _also_ have Neos Jan 02 19:58:42 or gps + really trained thumbs Jan 02 20:10:00 heh, was more thinking of nearest known location where you can find people, or bars or whatever.. say, you wonder what is closes.. heh Jan 02 20:18:11 ETA: Jan 2007? Where is it, already? =D Jan 02 20:27:04 OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: Someday in january 2007 | Direct-Sale World Wide | No Preorders yet Jan 02 20:27:18 hmm Jan 02 20:27:38 mickey|sports: maybe you want to add that :) Jan 03 00:16:50 hm, cyberpower has a battery-powered usb hub for $13.30, batteries included Jan 03 00:16:59 probably not the charger though, but still rather reasonable Jan 03 00:18:50 for us wanting to hook stuff up when necessary Jan 03 00:21:20 mjr: *whine* We cannot even preorder the toys yet. Jan 03 00:21:55 yes well there's that but soon, muhahaha, soooon Jan 03 00:22:22 define soon ;) Jan 03 00:22:38 well, this month? :] Jan 03 00:22:47 Yah, apple is going to launch their iPhone, seems like this project needs something before then Jan 03 00:22:54 jan 10 is macword, right Jan 03 00:23:07 ;) Jan 03 00:23:31 i would love to steal the apple thunder Jan 03 00:27:16 rejon: no chance -> the FIC thing is only a thunder for us geeks. Jan 03 00:27:36 not if promoted properly ;) Jan 03 00:28:01 I want to get good content onto these things and get some social networking happening majorly Jan 03 00:28:06 on the phones Jan 03 00:28:46 rejon: Well, the details are not that fascinating. The only fascinating thing is the relative low price for an unsupported (by a network) phone. Jan 03 00:29:34 yeah Jan 03 00:29:40 I wish the phone had EDGE support Jan 03 00:29:41 :( Jan 03 00:38:11 hmh, damn, seems I'll have to do some hunting to get one of them battery hubs shipped to finland Jan 03 00:40:09 'cause cyberpower-eu.com doesn't point anywhere Jan 03 00:40:50 and those US/Canadian stores are picky about selling here Jan 03 00:49:31 hmh, pcconnections sells the hub overseas but I'd have to call or fax the order in Jan 03 00:49:37 bother Jan 03 00:49:49 well, I'll keep it in mind Jan 03 01:20:47 hey all Jan 03 01:21:16 robtaylor: ah, you're interested/involved in this? Jan 03 01:44:30 Hi Jan 03 01:44:34 So is it out? Jan 03 02:16:17 Any one know where its going to be sold ? Jan 03 02:19:31 noone. Jan 03 02:43:12 gw280: yeah, just hanging round for now :) Jan 03 02:43:56 robtaylor: :) Jan 03 02:44:02 robtaylor: how're you? Jan 03 02:45:56 robtaylor: btw, they appear to have the GSM hardware working on my phone **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 03 02:59:58 2007