**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 11 02:59:58 2007
Jan 11 04:16:21 <slaz> '
Jan 11 04:38:07 <amarsh05> Cisco sues Apple over iPhone http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,21042507%5E15306,00.html
Jan 11 04:47:45 <cbpage> doh
Jan 11 04:47:52 <cbpage> they could just call it [apple]Phone
Jan 11 05:02:10 <amarsh05> back in a minute
Jan 11 05:03:40 <amarsh05> what value is a phone if you can't get the data in and out of it freely by yourself?
Jan 11 05:14:38 <Psi> they could call it Icell or Imobile
Jan 11 06:48:14 <aloril> twice more people here than in ##apple
Jan 11 06:52:53 <vininim> February? :/
Jan 11 08:44:50 <yaomogauchoa> interesting stuff posted to digg.. just wondering about the hardware though
Jan 11 08:45:48 <yaomogauchoa> is there any actual hardware that is out in developer hands or is it all in a vm still on the chopping block...
Jan 11 09:03:08 <aloril> there is often cited quote from RedHat CEO that says something like "no source code" == "car with hood welded shut"
Jan 11 09:03:51 <aloril> iPhone: no user or other software installable except from Apple? == "car with predefined routes"
Jan 11 09:09:16 <aloril> a bit like personal bus
Jan 11 09:16:15 <Tv> aloril: really bad example, btw
Jan 11 09:16:34 <Tv> aloril: because most modern cars have an openable hood but the engine is still a closed block
Jan 11 09:22:24 <aloril> Tv: yeah, outdated
Jan 11 10:00:51 <Tv> "The industry sees openness as damage and routes around it." ;)
Jan 11 10:05:10 <koen> http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS2007
Jan 11 10:05:51 <greentux> morning
Jan 11 10:06:45 <sannes> When the topic says early access, does that mean people like us or some "chosen" people ?
Jan 11 10:10:58 <Tv> I just can't get openembedded to build.
Jan 11 10:11:46 <Tv> ubuntu edgy
Jan 11 10:12:12 <Tv> I can get a bunch of different kinds of errors, depending on what I try..
Jan 11 10:12:25 <Tv> which is why I've kept trying instead of asking for specific help; some path might still lead to success
Jan 11 10:12:30 <Tv> but e.g.
Jan 11 10:12:44 <Tv> "CC=gcc-3.3 bitbake world" results in
Jan 11 10:12:53 <Tv> | autoreconf: running: aclocal -I /home/tv/src/openembedded/tmp/work/armv5te-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libmutil0-0.3.1+svn20070111-r0/libmutil/m4/ -I /home/tv/src/openembedded/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/share/aclocal-1.9 -I /home/tv/src/openembedded/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/share/aclocal --force -I m4 $(ACLOCAL_FLAGS)
Jan 11 10:12:53 <Tv> | sh: ACLOCAL_FLAGS: not found
Jan 11 10:12:56 <Tv> ...
Jan 11 10:13:12 <Tv> | autoreconf: running: automake --foreign --add-missing --copy --force-missing --warnings=cross
Jan 11 10:13:12 <Tv> | automake: unknown warning category `cross'
Jan 11 10:13:12 <Tv> | Makefile.am:3: required directory ./libltdl does not exist
Jan 11 10:13:12 <Tv> | autoreconf: automake failed with exit status: 1
Jan 11 10:13:28 <Tv> I fear it's some sort of version incompatibility
Jan 11 10:13:34 <koen> bitbake world?
Jan 11 10:13:40 <koen> why do you want to do that?
Jan 11 10:13:46 <hrw|work> Tv: world?? MAD you are
Jan 11 10:13:52 <hrw|work> brb
Jan 11 10:13:55 <Tv> hrw|work: I
Jan 11 10:13:58 <Tv> 've tried a bunch of thinmgs
Jan 11 10:14:15 <Tv> e.g. gpe-image
Jan 11 10:15:40 <Tv> world is mostly just "does *anything* work" kind of a test
Jan 11 10:15:46 <hrw|work> Tv: 'bitbake task-base' is a test
Jan 11 10:16:03 <Tv> okay, that's running right now
Jan 11 10:43:02 <hrw|work> http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2007/corp_011007.html
Jan 11 10:56:48 <xkr47> what kind of usb plug does the moko have?
Jan 11 10:57:12 <stefan_schmidt> mini usb
Jan 11 10:57:27 * xkr47 drools when he thinks of the kick-ass "mobile phone camera" setup he will get by connecting his regular 6MP fuji through usb :)
Jan 11 10:58:12 <xkr47> it might even work directly with the unpowered usb, since the camera has its own battery.. *hopes that it doesn't need the 5V to 'sense' the usb connection*
Jan 11 11:02:52 <koen> iirc it does
Jan 11 11:03:14 <koen> at least on the n770 (also unpowered usbhost) you need to supply 5V
Jan 11 11:03:37 <xkr47> it might depend on the camera I think
Jan 11 11:03:47 <xkr47> unless the usb standard says "this is the way to detect an usb connection"
Jan 11 11:04:23 <xkr47> but anyway, adding a battery is not hard, somebody pasted a "howto" link already
Jan 11 11:04:37 <xkr47> even if it had a flaw that it connected 5V in both directions
Jan 11 11:04:49 <xkr47> which means the phone would start charging from the external battery
Jan 11 11:05:03 <xkr47> and I guess that's not what one wants with moko :)
Jan 11 11:06:54 <xkr47> I guess the extra month is just great for the software developers, you get to make it even more great now :)
Jan 11 11:30:46 <Stephmw> iPhone related, http://www.taz.de/pt/2007/01/11.1/kari
Jan 11 11:33:03 <xkr47> heh
Jan 11 11:42:28 <LaF0rge> re mickeyl
Jan 11 11:43:28 <Stephmw> impressive pounce :)
Jan 11 11:43:36 <LaF0rge> stephmw: *lol*
Jan 11 11:43:49 * Stephmw raises his board '9.9'
Jan 11 11:43:56 <mickeyl> heya
Jan 11 11:43:59 * LaF0rge still has to get his printed copy of taz out of the mailbox
Jan 11 11:44:04 <mickeyl> morning lardman
Jan 11 11:44:09 <mickeyl> ~lart tab completion
Jan 11 11:44:09 * apt explains, ever so gently, that if tab completion doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help
Jan 11 11:44:14 <mickeyl> morning LaF0rge
Jan 11 11:44:24 <Stephmw> LaF0rge: I wish I could understand german - it's lucky that cartoon is in english
Jan 11 11:44:29 <koen> good morning all
Jan 11 11:44:30 * mickeyl sips a fresh brewn coffee
Jan 11 11:44:37 <mickeyl> moning koen
Jan 11 11:45:45 <hrw|work> http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2007/corp_011007.html is also iPhone related
Jan 11 11:46:26 <Stephmw> hrw|work: aye although not nearly as funny
Jan 11 11:46:38 <Stephmw> heya koen 
Jan 11 11:54:45 <mikesh> hello, i see in specs that, neo1973 have microsd  slot for memory cards up to 1gb, but in eshop i see cards up to 2gb, is there some problem to use 2gb cards?
Jan 11 11:57:07 * mickeyl points to LaF0rge
Jan 11 11:57:20 <mickeyl> i guess we never seen one 2gb card
Jan 11 11:57:22 <mickeyl> yet
Jan 11 11:58:14 <hrw|work> mickeyl: microsd one you mean?
Jan 11 11:58:20 <mickeyl> yeah
Jan 11 11:59:39 <hrw|work> minisd 2G exists for sure
Jan 11 12:00:20 <hrw|work> found
Jan 11 12:00:40 <hrw|work> Sandisk microSD 2GB - 220 pln (~70 EUR)
Jan 11 12:01:17 <buz> microsd exists
Jan 11 12:01:23 <buz> 50E
Jan 11 12:01:23 <mikesh> yes, and corsair make it too
Jan 11 12:01:34 <buz> minisd about 30E
Jan 11 12:02:51 <mikesh> so, is it possible use it in neo?
Jan 11 12:07:01 <xkr47> i.e. was the 1GB mentioned for bragging or technical reasons ;)
Jan 11 12:07:14 <mickeyl> <mickeyl> i guess we never seen one 2gb card
Jan 11 12:07:24 <mickeyl> 'we' being all people who have prototypes
Jan 11 12:07:55 <xkr47> where can I send my 10e via paypal so they can get money for a 2GB card to test with ;)
Jan 11 12:08:04 <mickeyl> hehe
Jan 11 12:08:07 <mickeyl> "support your local hardware manufacturer"
Jan 11 12:08:17 * xkr47 'd gladly send some money to the moko guys
Jan 11 12:09:09 <xkr47> if not for microsd cards then for pizzas and coca-cola :)
Jan 11 12:09:29 <xorAxAx> t
Jan 11 12:09:32 <xorAxAx> oops
Jan 11 12:09:48 <mickeyl> off topic
Jan 11 12:09:53 * mickeyl happy as a 3 year old today
Jan 11 12:09:57 <mickeyl> </offtopic>
Jan 11 12:09:58 <xkr47> \o/
Jan 11 12:10:10 * mickeyl waiting for people who want to know why
Jan 11 12:10:15 <xkr47> tell us :)
Jan 11 12:10:18 <mickeyl> thanks
Jan 11 12:10:19 <mickeyl> http://www.roland.com/V-synth/
Jan 11 12:10:26 <mickeyl> there will be a new V-Synth!!!!
Jan 11 12:10:32 <xkr47> *droolism*
Jan 11 12:10:32 * mickeyl dances a jig
Jan 11 12:10:49 <xkr47> in what price range are those
Jan 11 12:10:53 <mickeyl> ya know if there's one thing where i'm more gear lusty than in mobile devices then it's synthesizer
Jan 11 12:10:59 <mickeyl> USD 3000
Jan 11 12:11:05 <xkr47> k
Jan 11 12:11:23 <xkr47> I have a yamaha p-80 keyboard only, ~1500 usd
Jan 11 12:11:39 <xkr47> or that's what I paid for it ~5 years ago in Finland :)
Jan 11 12:11:50 <xkr47> it's not a synth
Jan 11 12:12:51 <mickeyl> it got a weighted keyboard?
Jan 11 12:13:15 <mickeyl> synth keyboards always feel so sloppy, that's why i prefer weighted keyboards
Jan 11 12:13:30 <mickeyl> (being a bad but passionate piano player)
Jan 11 12:14:30 <Ycros> I know almost nothing about hardware synths
Jan 11 12:14:33 <Ycros> how open are they?
Jan 11 12:14:34 <xkr47> if weighted means pressure-sensitive then yes
Jan 11 12:14:49 <xkr47> I'm not good either but I play the piano for fun
Jan 11 12:15:19 <Ycros> aye, I have a cheap velocity sensitive midi keyboard
Jan 11 12:15:29 <xkr47> the p-80 doesn't have a lot of instruments, but it's not a casio xyz-500 either bragging with quantitive features
Jan 11 12:18:53 <hrw|work> xkr47: you an always use it as keyboard with another midi synth
Jan 11 12:19:18 <xkr47> hmm didn't quite get that..
Jan 11 12:19:31 <xkr47> you use your midi keyboard with another midi synth ?
Jan 11 12:19:40 <xkr47> or did you ask if I use it ?
Jan 11 12:19:41 <hrw|work> xkr47: iirc it is possible
Jan 11 12:19:48 <xkr47> yeah
Jan 11 12:21:53 <hrw|work> so if you have dev1 which has great keyboard but not so great sound...
Jan 11 12:32:48 <Ycros> xkr47: I hook it up to my computer and use soft synths under linux
Jan 11 12:33:23 <Ycros> it's usb as well, which is what I use to connect it
Jan 11 12:33:38 <xkr47> I'd like to do that too, tried to build a midi connector myself once, but it didn't work :(
Jan 11 12:33:48 <Ycros> you just plug it in and it works
Jan 11 12:33:52 <xkr47> yea
Jan 11 12:33:54 <Ycros> a midi device pops up in linux
Jan 11 12:33:56 <xkr47> maybe I should get one of those
Jan 11 12:34:00 <Ycros> usb++ :)
Jan 11 12:34:10 <xkr47> how much did it cost
Jan 11 12:34:21 <xkr47> Ycros, soon you'll be connecting your midi keyboard to your moko phone ?-DD
Jan 11 12:34:51 <mickeyl> no kidding, there are USB midi interfaces and Alsa has support for some of hem
Jan 11 12:35:03 <Ycros> it's an evolution mk 249
Jan 11 12:35:13 <Ycros> mickeyl: it's a standard usb midi device
Jan 11 12:35:23 <Ycros> not anything specific
Jan 11 12:35:40 <mickeyl> cool
Jan 11 12:35:58 <Ycros> xkr47: um, I think I paid around $100-200AUD
Jan 11 12:36:01 <Ycros> it was a while ago
Jan 11 12:36:28 * xkr47 goes to xe.com
Jan 11 12:36:48 <xkr47> right so 60-120eur then :)
Jan 11 12:36:49 <Ycros> but
Jan 11 12:36:52 <Ycros> look up prices
Jan 11 12:36:59 <Ycros> because it's probably old now :P
Jan 11 12:37:41 <Ycros> I'm sure there are newer ones as well now
Jan 11 12:38:05 <Ycros> I wanted the cheapest I could find, with the requirement that it was velocity sensitive
Jan 11 12:38:24 <Ycros> usb just happened to be in there :)
Jan 11 12:38:30 <xkr47> :)
Jan 11 12:39:59 <Ycros> and it only does midi, it doesn't have speakers at all
Jan 11 12:42:17 <xkr47> well my keyboard doesn't have speakers but it has headphones & line output
Jan 11 12:42:26 <xkr47> and has some very nice piano etc sounds
Jan 11 12:42:44 <xkr47> sounds almost like the real thing with headphones
Jan 11 12:44:41 <blackbird> hoi
Jan 11 12:45:06 <xkr47> yoi
Jan 11 12:46:31 <xkr47> Ycros, how do you know if it's velocity sensitive.. :)
Jan 11 12:46:38 <xkr47> -> priv
Jan 11 12:47:24 <blackbird> i have to admit: openmoko looks interesting
Jan 11 12:47:51 <blackbird> yesterday i thought after the iPhone it will take some time to suprise me again
Jan 11 12:48:03 <blackbird> but an open platform is just great :D
Jan 11 12:48:06 <Ycros> it says it's velocity sensitive in the features
Jan 11 12:48:13 <Ycros> and when I hit the keys soft, it plays soft
Jan 11 12:48:19 <Ycros> >
Jan 11 12:48:21 <Ycros> :>
Jan 11 13:03:57 <hrw|work> ~change 200 aud to eur
Jan 11 13:04:03 <apt> 200.00 Australia Dollar (AUD) makes 120.570 Euro (EUR) (from http://www.xe.com/)
Jan 11 13:10:22 <xorAxAx> blackbird: hi
Jan 11 13:10:30 <blackbird> hossa xorAxAx
Jan 11 13:10:57 <blackbird> xorAxAx, i'm surprised
Jan 11 13:11:52 <blackbird> didn't expect you here
Jan 11 13:13:41 <xorAxAx> blackbird: i had been here for months
Jan 11 13:13:52 <xorAxAx> blackbird: always claiming that the phone wont appear in january
Jan 11 13:14:04 <xorAxAx> and i was right :)
Jan 11 13:14:14 <blackbird> xorAxAx, hehe. i found it today via digg
Jan 11 13:14:20 <xorAxAx> *puke*
Jan 11 13:14:21 <blackbird> guess i missed something the last months
Jan 11 13:15:36 <koen> heh
Jan 11 13:15:37 <koen> http://digg.com/gadgets/Moko_The_Open_Source_cheaper_alternative_to_iPhone
Jan 11 13:16:59 <Stephmw> hey, at least atm they're both at the same stage of commercial availability... both 'soft-launched'
Jan 11 13:17:08 <Stephmw> Apple has the advantage for publicity in being sued
Jan 11 13:17:21 <h32> are there already stores selling the moko cell phone?
Jan 11 13:17:31 <koen> h32: see topic
Jan 11 13:17:57 <koen> ". and supposedly you can run drivers in the linux os that emulate 802.11."
Jan 11 13:18:00 <blackbird> hmm. no wifi and no umts?
Jan 11 13:18:01 <koen> wtf?
Jan 11 13:18:36 <xorAxAx> blackbird: neither nor
Jan 11 13:18:52 <blackbird> bummer
Jan 11 13:19:03 <koen> "If Moko is based on Linux, it must be Ubuntu. Where else would they get a brown-n-orange UI design??"
Jan 11 13:19:10 <xorAxAx> haha
Jan 11 13:19:24 <CM> Hehe
Jan 11 13:20:42 <koen> the most enlightened comment: "digg needs a ban on netspeak. violators should be shot."
Jan 11 13:21:07 <koen> Well, in spanish "moko" sounds exactly the same as "moco", which means "mucus"
Jan 11 13:21:21 <blackbird> what's the advantage of a smartphone without umts today?
Jan 11 13:21:29 <koen> in dutch people seem to confuse it with a racial slur
Jan 11 13:21:41 <koen> blackbird: for the operator or you?
Jan 11 13:22:07 <blackbird> koen, if i want to send / receive mails, surf the web umts is the only chance here in austria
Jan 11 13:22:11 <blackbird> everything else is unpayable
Jan 11 13:22:42 <koen> if you have a umts supscription edge and gprs are usually grandfathered in
Jan 11 13:22:50 <koen> since umts will use that as a fallback
Jan 11 13:23:49 <CM> I've never had any issues mailing on gprs, as long as you're not attatching 300k pics
Jan 11 13:24:25 <CM> And surfing with opera mini is acceptable
Jan 11 13:30:16 <blackbird> how much vaporware is openmoko at the moment?
Jan 11 13:30:37 <xorAxAx> blackbird: 0%
Jan 11 13:31:07 <blackbird> xorAxAx, that means software is already finished and all people are doing now is waiting for fic?
Jan 11 13:31:32 <xorAxAx> blackbird: no
Jan 11 13:31:44 <xorAxAx> blackbird: but apparently, the hardware is not in latest phases
Jan 11 13:32:07 <blackbird> xorAxAx, but the software is finished so farß
Jan 11 13:32:38 <xorAxAx> blackbird: its based on stuff like OE
Jan 11 13:32:55 <xorAxAx> which has been finished. most drivers are finished, no idea about the UI
Jan 11 13:34:23 <blackbird> from what i've seen now the fic neo device has some real disadvantages: really, really small flash, no edge, no wifi, no camera, usb1.1 :-/
Jan 11 13:34:34 <blackbird> at least usb2 and wifi would be good
Jan 11 13:35:25 <xorAxAx> integrating wifi is a rather large task which ranges from redimensioning the battery to finding some space for the wifi module/antenna
Jan 11 13:35:30 <koen> 64mb is small?
Jan 11 13:35:40 <xorAxAx> blackbird: you can add microsd
Jan 11 13:35:52 <xorAxAx> or an external harddrive :)
Jan 11 13:35:57 * xorAxAx got one a few days ago :)
Jan 11 13:36:07 <blackbird> koen, yes
Jan 11 13:36:17 * koen disagrees
Jan 11 13:36:25 <blackbird> xorAxAx, my ipaq (5 years old) has 64 flash
Jan 11 13:36:35 <blackbird> koen, the iphone ships 4 gigs
Jan 11 13:36:37 <xorAxAx> but its not a phone
Jan 11 13:36:45 <koen> it doesn't run debian or fedoraaargh which need 300MB for 'hello world'
Jan 11 13:36:50 <blackbird> xorAxAx, does a phone need more?
Jan 11 13:36:58 <xorAxAx> less than a pda, blackbird 
Jan 11 13:37:14 * xorAxAx had been using 2 MB palms for ages
Jan 11 13:37:48 <blackbird> xorAxAx, i use a plain nokia phone currently with 16MB flash and it started telling me that the memory is full some days ago
Jan 11 13:37:49 <xorAxAx> and iphone is currently still vaporware
Jan 11 13:37:55 <Tv> don't know about you but I'd love to move stuff from a digicam to openmoko and then push them slowly over gprs, letting openmoko remove them when transfer finishes
Jan 11 13:38:01 <blackbird> and i just saved notes, sms and contacts
Jan 11 13:38:04 <flickerfly> If this opensource phone takes off, maybe the branch into an open source iPhone equiv will be a natural progression
Jan 11 13:38:28 <xorAxAx> blackbird: 1 MB  of sms costs more than 1000 EUR in germany
Jan 11 13:38:29 <flickerfly> I'd imagine that would be an expensive business risk in the mind of business guys to start with a PDA type device
Jan 11 13:38:40 <xorAxAx> blackbird: contacts are small, notes mostly as well. so your phone must be broken
Jan 11 13:38:45 <xorAxAx> with openmoko, you would know why
Jan 11 13:39:51 <blackbird> xorAxAx, how large is one sms for you?
Jan 11 13:41:07 <CM> Isn't it always 160 chars?
Jan 11 13:41:07 <blackbird> 160 chars with a singlebyte encoding, some additional information about sender, time, receiver, follow up -> i guess 0.5K then
Jan 11 13:41:30 <xorAxAx> one gms sms text message is 140 bytes
Jan 11 13:41:36 <xorAxAx> (just the payload)
Jan 11 13:41:55 <blackbird> xorAxAx, why 140?
Jan 11 13:42:00 <xorAxAx> refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_message_service for details
Jan 11 13:42:06 <blackbird> i'll do
Jan 11 13:42:12 <xorAxAx> blackbird: because 160 is an approximation based on 7 bit characters
Jan 11 13:42:18 <mjr> yeah, sms are ridiculously priced, which is why we need that app that will send whatever data we want (push-to-talk voice, text messages, files) to other phones via ip)
Jan 11 13:42:18 <xorAxAx> sms messages dont use ascii
Jan 11 13:43:04 <hrw|work> SMS use GSM charset
Jan 11 13:43:24 <blackbird> hrw|work, no. the can use multybyte chars as well
Jan 11 13:43:51 <blackbird> either 7bit gsm, 8bit ascii or ucs2
Jan 11 13:43:52 <hrw|work> blackbird: GSM or multibyte
Jan 11 13:43:57 <hrw|work> ok
Jan 11 13:44:35 <blackbird> anyway. the phone is three years old and my memory is full
Jan 11 13:44:49 <blackbird> three years of contacts, messages and notifications
Jan 11 13:44:57 <blackbird> 16MB
Jan 11 13:45:20 <koen> fwiw, jffs2 doesn't support >4GB
Jan 11 13:45:24 <stefan_schmidt> makes 12 years with the neo. ;)
Jan 11 13:45:37 <koen> and dwmw2 refuses to use >32bit pointers
Jan 11 13:45:43 <koen> ~hail logfs
Jan 11 13:45:44 * apt bows down to logfs and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
Jan 11 13:45:45 <blackbird> stefan_schmidt, and the openmoko software is 0bit big
Jan 11 13:46:02 <blackbird> oh. and of course i wouldn't be able to put soundfiles and pictures onto that device then
Jan 11 13:46:32 * stefan_schmidt points blackbird to microSD slot again.
Jan 11 13:46:46 <blackbird> yeah. of course
Jan 11 13:46:56 <blackbird> it's small nontheless
Jan 11 13:47:19 <stefan_schmidt> If you like to have a mobile hdd buy ipod, etc.
Jan 11 13:48:28 <blackbird> i am a ipod owner :)
Jan 11 13:48:50 <koen> I think my current phone has 2MB free for me
Jan 11 13:49:32 <buz> the people commenting on the digg story really need to get a clue
Jan 11 13:50:08 <buz> mobile hd sucks
Jan 11 13:50:20 <buz> eats tons of power and prone to failure
Jan 11 13:50:24 <hrw|work> koen: my has 30MB free + 35MB free on memorystick
Jan 11 13:50:52 <stefan_schmidt> blackbird: Hardware for v1 is settled. v2 will have much nicer hardware, but also higher price. And of course you can still buy other phones. It's your choice
Jan 11 13:51:02 <buz> besides ill likely stick to my shuffle for music playing anyeay
Jan 11 13:51:13 <blackbird> yeah. i'll keep watching openmoko
Jan 11 13:51:21 <blackbird> for now i'm still happy with my nokia
Jan 11 13:51:28 <stefan_schmidt> fine
Jan 11 13:51:32 <buz> so i'm supposed to pay 350$ now and 550$ in 6 months...
Jan 11 13:52:13 * stefan_schmidt doesn't know anything about the v2, only rumors.
Jan 11 13:52:46 <buz> still trying to figure out if ill buy v1
Jan 11 13:52:59 <koen> v2 will have bigger brake disks
Jan 11 13:53:10 <blackbird> koen, does it have wifi?
Jan 11 13:53:11 <koen> and a 40" HDTV
Jan 11 13:53:16 <buz> i want tiptronic
Jan 11 13:53:23 <blackbird> lol
Jan 11 13:53:25 <skome> How inconvenient/expensive would it be to backup old messages/contacts OTA to a file server?  Space on device wouldn't be such a constraint of transfer was convenient
Jan 11 13:53:40 <buz> that would obviously depend on your provider
Jan 11 13:54:09 <skome> aside from rate plans, from your perspective as a user: acceptable?
Jan 11 13:54:20 <buz> not with my current plan no
Jan 11 13:54:24 <buz> with a flat rate, definitely
Jan 11 13:54:43 <buz> not sure why you couldnt do it with usb or bt tho
Jan 11 13:54:50 <buz> its not like 64mb wont last for a week
Jan 11 13:55:11 <stefan_schmidt> I think messages and contacts don't will be a problem. Problem is stuff like video, music and photo.
Jan 11 13:55:12 <buz> especially considering you havent got a cam
Jan 11 13:55:21 <skome> Sure. I'm thinking of T-Mobile Sidekicks, which seem to rsync in the background
Jan 11 13:55:42 <buz> if gprs is paid for, no problem with that
Jan 11 13:58:05 * mjr has been toying with the idea of downloading songs from home pretty much on demand so that one wouldn't have to store everything on the neo; just, say, note to neo that you'd like album x for a change, it'd start downloading, and would play those as they were available
Jan 11 14:00:54 <blackbird> so. offline
Jan 11 14:01:42 <buz> gprs is too slow for that
Jan 11 14:01:58 <buz> and it would eat battery 
Jan 11 14:02:08 <Stephmw> anyone else interested in Java for the Neo?
Jan 11 14:02:28 * koen points to his post on the ml
Jan 11 14:02:45 <mjr> it would eat some battery, true, but slowness is subjective; you'd still have your local music to play while waiting for the new bits
Jan 11 14:02:47 <koen> *if* people are interested they don't seem to want to put in any effort
Jan 11 14:03:32 <mjr> I suspect effort will rise when the phone is published. But I'm only marginally interested myself, not much into putting effort on that.
Jan 11 14:04:34 <Stephmw> koen: or any public effort in any case... oh well, things should improve with the hardware release
Jan 11 14:04:55 <koen> Stephmw: amazing how short sighted people are
Jan 11 14:05:05 <Stephmw> koen: best news is that there's soon going to be an open sourced JIT for arm
Jan 11 14:05:12 <Stephmw> koen: just in time too
Jan 11 14:05:28 <koen> right
Jan 11 14:05:55 <koen> but getting CDC and CLDC (e.g phoneme feature+advance) to work would be a start
Jan 11 14:06:14 <koen> waiting for release to start a gtk peer is just plain stupid
Jan 11 14:06:41 <Stephmw> there's an SDL port underway for CLDC already, it's looking good
Jan 11 14:07:09 <Stephmw> it's frustrating I'm not allowed to help
Jan 11 14:07:57 <accum> hi all
Jan 11 14:08:09 <koen> thanks to sun I'm not allowed to share the recipes for the older cvm
Jan 11 14:08:20 <accum> where and when can I order myself a Neo1973?
Jan 11 14:08:25 <koen> accum: see topic
Jan 11 14:08:54 <Stephmw> koen: my problem is that I'm *currently* employed working on a closed j2me implementation, so anything open sourced in that area is out of bounds
Jan 11 14:09:10 <accum> ok that answers the when
Jan 11 14:09:10 * koen looks at sun-cvm_1.01-r1_arm.ipk
Jan 11 14:09:33 <accum> the where translates to openmoko.com?
Jan 11 14:09:33 <koen> binary compatible with openmoko
Jan 11 14:10:17 <pjz> Is there an openmoko CVS tree someplace?  to start building an emulator or cross-build environment?
Jan 11 14:10:29 <koen> pjz: http://openembedded.org
Jan 11 14:10:29 <buz> pjz: not public yet
Jan 11 14:11:44 <stefan_schmidt> accum: One it is to sale you should get the infos on openmoko.com, yes.
Jan 11 14:12:57 <accum> koen: will they be sold through openmoko.com or the FIC website?
Jan 11 14:12:59 <buz> me wonders abuout bayesian text prediction
Jan 11 14:13:06 <pjz> buz: that would be cool
Jan 11 14:13:21 <buz> but the db would be prohibitively large
Jan 11 14:14:12 <pjz> whyso?
Jan 11 14:14:27 <buz> well it would obviously depend on how you do i
Jan 11 14:14:48 <buz> naive implementation based on two word pairs would be huuuge
Jan 11 14:15:14 <buz> i wonder how tengo.com work
Jan 11 14:15:16 <pjz> /usr/share/dict/american-english is only 900k or so
Jan 11 14:15:17 <accum> note to self: read before asking :)
Jan 11 14:15:32 <koen> which is ~500kB on jffs2
Jan 11 14:15:42 <buz> pjz: take 5000 words. square the number
Jan 11 14:15:47 <buz> assign each a 16bit int
Jan 11 14:15:53 <buz> and you get to huge datasets
Jan 11 14:16:01 <buz> (and 5000 words is really very low)
Jan 11 14:16:51 <buz> you'd need about 100MB to store 4 most likely following words for any given word pair
Jan 11 14:16:54 <koen> buz: De Bello Gallico only used 1500 different words :)
Jan 11 14:16:54 <xorAxAx> koen: less than that
Jan 11 14:17:06 <buz> i dont read latin
Jan 11 14:17:10 <xorAxAx> because english words have a low entropy
Jan 11 14:18:31 <buz> is there an open source grammar checker?
Jan 11 14:18:44 <Stephmw> buz: are you referring to letter-in-word prediction, or word-in-sentence prediction? the former is easy to pack efficiently in an N-tree
Jan 11 14:18:59 <buz> ideally both
Jan 11 14:19:12 <buz> bot the latter is more interesting
Jan 11 14:19:33 <buz> stupid curse of dimensionality
Jan 11 14:22:27 <aloril> xkr47: fuji camera is supported by linux? what kind of things you can do? (or do you mean usb-storage?)
Jan 11 14:24:09 <koen> Stephmw: is it me, or do I sense a lack of 'real' developers on the ml?
Jan 11 14:24:53 <stefan_schmidt> koen: It's openmoko-community not openmoko-devel :)
Jan 11 14:25:06 <koen> right
Jan 11 14:25:12 <Stephmw> :)
Jan 11 14:25:18 <Stephmw> the devs will come
Jan 11 14:25:24 <hrw|work> stefan_schmidt: rumours say there is devel ML too but access to it is denied
Jan 11 14:25:25 <buz> you mean there are devs?
Jan 11 14:25:29 * koen hopes so
Jan 11 14:25:34 <buz> not just oompa loompas in fic's cellar?
Jan 11 14:25:34 <c10h12n2> Just out of curiosity, how could what _you_ sense be anything but _you_?
Jan 11 14:26:06 <stefan_schmidt> hrw|work: Would make sense that -devel is for coreteam only right now.
Jan 11 14:26:39 <Stephmw> stefan_schmidt: that's because it's only used for [NSFW] joke emails, right? :)
Jan 11 14:26:59 <xkr47> aloril, I have a Fuji F10, connect the camera to the pc with the usb cable that came with the camera, and it's then visible as regular usb mass storage in linux
Jan 11 14:27:06 <stefan_schmidt> Stephmw: The mostly joke about you and me. ;)
Jan 11 14:27:25 <xkr47> aloril, I don't know if the usb connectivity offers other features, haven't tried
Jan 11 14:27:30 <Stephmw> stefan_schmidt: the curse of sharing the same name :)
Jan 11 14:27:51 <xkr47> aloril, but it seems the camera is "offline" while usb is connected
Jan 11 14:28:02 <aloril> xkr47: ok, I was starting to drool for more control ;-)
Jan 11 14:28:12 <xkr47> I've once used a canon EOS from linux
Jan 11 14:28:32 <aloril> xkr47: what kind of control?
Jan 11 14:28:32 <xkr47> using gphoto2, it took pictures by running a simple command :)
Jan 11 14:28:50 <xkr47> sorry hmm was it eos.. well D-10 or something like that
Jan 11 14:28:51 <koen> canon eos use PTP
Jan 11 14:29:06 <koen> as do most canon cameras
Jan 11 14:29:25 <koen> (the ones with usb)
Jan 11 14:29:35 * koen hugs firewire
Jan 11 14:30:30 <Stephmw> I use my Canon 350D with gphoto2
Jan 11 14:30:31 * xkr47 took a nice picture of ants with that canon camera... http://www.niksula.cs.hut.fi/~jberlin/tmp/IMG_0123b.JPG
Jan 11 14:30:38 <Stephmw> but mostly just to transfer the photos
Jan 11 14:30:48 <aloril> hmm... panasonic has 2 USB modes too (PC==storage) and PTP
Jan 11 14:31:08 <xkr47> the info in the JPG says it was a "Canon EOS Digital Rebel"
Jan 11 14:31:42 * buz grabs 5 year old powershot for testing
Jan 11 14:31:42 <Stephmw> dammit, forgot to reinstall fxif for firefox
Jan 11 14:31:47 * Stephmw saves the image
Jan 11 14:32:54 <Stephmw> xkr47: ok... Digital Rebel is 300D, Digital Rebel  XT is 350D and the XTi is 400D
Jan 11 14:32:58 <koen> xkr47: more ant: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86669029@N00/332045491/in/set-72157594436444795/
Jan 11 14:33:02 * Stephmw curses Canon USA
Jan 11 14:33:16 <xkr47> koen, :)
Jan 11 14:33:20 <koen> Stephmw: don't forget that in .jp it's called 'kiss'
Jan 11 14:33:26 <buz> mhh the flash just went of
Jan 11 14:33:32 <buz> but now error
Jan 11 14:34:31 <wiking> and anybody managed to use an eos in storage mode? :) or that is just not possible
Jan 11 14:34:45 <buz> mhh shots pictures but i cant get them
Jan 11 14:34:54 <koen> wiking: it is possible to upload files via ptp
Jan 11 14:35:02 <wiking> because i was really pissed that i had this 2 gigs cf in my 400d, but there was no cf card reader around
Jan 11 14:35:13 <wiking> and i couldnt manage to get it in storage mode under osx :(
Jan 11 14:35:40 <koen> iirc there's a fuse driver for libgphoto
Jan 11 14:35:47 <wiking> oh
Jan 11 14:35:50 <wiking> linux hakko? :>
Jan 11 14:36:59 <aloril> in any case, probably almost every camera supports usb storage, indeed neo 'has' much better camera than iPhone ;-)
Jan 11 14:37:14 <Stephmw> koen: interesting
Jan 11 14:37:15 * koen waits for sigma to replace the firmware in his 24-70 f2.8 lens
Jan 11 14:37:24 <Stephmw> koen: I'll have a look for that tonight
Jan 11 14:37:40 <wiking> koen: been there! )))
Jan 11 14:37:45 <wiking> koen: awful :>>
Jan 11 14:37:56 <koen> Stephmw: http://www.gphoto.org/proj/gphotofs/
Jan 11 14:38:04 <wiking> koen: i had to wait 2.5 months to upgrade the fw in my sigmas...
Jan 11 14:38:24 <koen> wiking: they claimed it would take <4 weeks
Jan 11 14:38:29 <koen> wiking: but I'll see
Jan 11 14:38:39 <wiking> koen: upgrade for which cam ?:)
Jan 11 14:39:25 <wiking> because i just bought the 400d when it came out... so they needed to reverse engineer the new protocol for it... of course they didn't want to tell me this so they were comming up with different stories what's happening with my 2 lenses
Jan 11 14:40:10 <koen> Stephmw: wow: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephmw/200874014/
Jan 11 14:40:30 <Stephmw> other photogeeks are welcome to hop into #photogeeks for non hacking-related chat :)
Jan 11 14:40:35 <koen> wiking: it frontfocusses on my 20d, but it is ok-ish on my 1d
Jan 11 14:40:47 <wiking> koen: :)
Jan 11 14:40:50 <wiking> ok-ish :>
Jan 11 14:40:59 <wiking> you get Err99 sometimes? :)
Jan 11 14:41:08 <Stephmw> koen: yeah, I liked that shot... I was a bit blinded after shooting it :)
Jan 11 14:41:24 <koen> wiking: no, it front-focusses a bit less
Jan 11 14:41:47 <wiking> :|
Jan 11 14:42:14 <wiking> i had this strange err99 so the shutter locked up a bit.... but yeah now it's better
Jan 11 14:42:23 <koen> which seems common for canon-mount 24-70's
Jan 11 14:42:31 * Stephmw hugs the new glass -> 17-85mm f4,5.6 IS USM
Jan 11 14:43:12 <Stephmw> got it used - not new ;)
Jan 11 14:43:22 <wiking> Stephmw: that must be awesome :)
Jan 11 14:43:45 <Stephmw> wiking: it's a nice step up from the kit, but it's not an 'L' lens ;)
Jan 11 14:43:59 <wiking> ohh
Jan 11 14:44:00 <wiking> ef-s :(
Jan 11 14:44:50 <Stephmw> hey, at almost half price, on a 350D, I wasn't going to complain too much - it replaces two of my lenses
Jan 11 14:45:41 <wiking> ehhehe
Jan 11 14:45:43 <wiking> :P
Jan 11 14:46:08 <koen> I <heart> 100mm macro
Jan 11 14:46:21 <mitsuhiko> back
Jan 11 14:47:03 <Stephmw> koen: I make do with a reversed 50mm prime :) with a 52mm thread, it just fits the body bayonet fitting tightly
Jan 11 14:47:40 <koen> Stephmw: I bought an extra bodycap + reversing ring a while back
Jan 11 14:47:58 <koen> I still need to find time to attack it with a saw and glue
Jan 11 14:48:04 <Stephmw> haha
Jan 11 14:48:30 <Stephmw> I've been told there's a guy in china who custom-machines bayonet->filter thread adapters for ~$10
Jan 11 14:48:37 <koen> it was cheaper to buy them in the usa and have them sent here....
Jan 11 14:48:40 <Stephmw> waiting on my contact to give me his details
Jan 11 14:48:48 <koen> $7 for both, $12 for delivery
Jan 11 14:55:23 <aloril> number 1 accessory for neo: battery powered usb hub (and charger for neo at same time hopefully) -> *MUCH* more possible than any other phone
Jan 11 14:55:46 * koen suspects that's in the hackers lunchbox
Jan 11 14:56:06 * aloril hopes it is and if not that its added to it
Jan 11 15:20:42 <hrw|work> someone still want firefox on embedded?
Jan 11 15:20:44 <hrw|work>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
Jan 11 15:20:44 <hrw|work> 23899 hrw       25   0 1101m 984m 8976 R 99.1 77.8  35:23.05 firefox-bin
Jan 11 15:21:22 <Sencer> well, you still have 22.2% mem for other stuff, don't you?
Jan 11 15:21:46 <mitsuhiko> hrw|work: try minimo :)
Jan 11 15:21:59 <aloril> hrw|work: I think have been sometimes close to 2GB ;-)
Jan 11 15:53:15 <bipolar> did all these people join after reading the digg story like I did or is this place always this full? :)
Jan 11 15:54:11 <vargr> this crowd has been slowly growing -
Jan 11 15:54:14 <so_solid_moo> 'digg'?
Jan 11 15:54:29 <vargr> it was usually around 70-some at the beginning of the week
Jan 11 15:54:38 <kaboofa> i read something about openmoko a month or so ago
Jan 11 15:54:46 <kaboofa> didn't come into the irc channel until now ;o
Jan 11 15:55:24 <aloril> yeah, I don't think I have seen 125 before
Jan 11 16:03:21 <xorAxAx> 14:43:04 -!- Irssi: New peak in #openmoko@freenode : 117
Jan 11 16:03:28 <xorAxAx> 17:31:36 -!- Irssi: New peak in #openmoko@freenode : 127
Jan 11 16:03:32 <xorAxAx> (1 minute ago)
Jan 11 16:04:54 <pjz> the lwn.net story helped too, I'm sure
Jan 11 16:08:56 <koen> frakking bots
Jan 11 16:13:57 <Stephmw> pjz: what's the exact link?
Jan 11 16:20:19 <aloril> explanation for neo's number: http://blogs.ft.com/techblog/2007/01/openmoko_harks_.html
Jan 11 16:21:33 <koen> aaaaaargh
Jan 11 16:21:36 <koen> "MontaVista is providing the Linux kernel, Trolltech the middleware and Sean Moss Pultz, FIC’s product manager and OpenMoko “evangelist” is assembling a posse of Linux devotees to help develop applications."
Jan 11 16:21:50 <koen> the neo is not tainted by MV and TT
Jan 11 16:22:24 <benJIman> Qtopia is GPL now, so it wouldn't be tainting
Jan 11 16:22:29 <mjr> I wondered about the same
Jan 11 16:22:39 <mjr> maybe they're confusing with the greenphone
Jan 11 16:22:40 <koen> benJIman: the phone stuff isn't
Jan 11 16:22:50 <xorAxAx> koen: thats about the fix phone?
Jan 11 16:22:52 <benJIman> koen: it is now
Jan 11 16:22:53 <xorAxAx> s/fix/fic/
Jan 11 16:22:53 <apt> xorAxAx meant: koen: thats about the fic phone?
Jan 11 16:22:59 <Stephmw> yeah, it does sound like they're confused...
Jan 11 16:23:06 <benJIman> but the article seems completeyl wrong
Jan 11 16:23:18 <koen> benJIman: include SXE and DRM?
Jan 11 16:23:21 <xorAxAx> maybe they know more than we do and LaF0rge is just a simulation
Jan 11 16:23:40 <benJIman> koen: no not those bits
Jan 11 16:24:17 <hrw|work> benJIman: Qtopia is GPL/QPL
Jan 11 16:24:26 <hrw|work> benJIman: for commercial use Qtopia is not GPL
Jan 11 16:24:37 <xorAxAx> hrw|work: ?
Jan 11 16:24:41 <xorAxAx> they modified the GPL?
Jan 11 16:24:46 <xorAxAx> GPL doesnt forbid commercial use
Jan 11 16:24:47 <koen> xorAxAx: dual licensing
Jan 11 16:24:51 <hrw|work> xorAxAx: no - they dual license it
Jan 11 16:24:59 <xorAxAx> but then you may not say it like that :)
Jan 11 16:25:11 <xorAxAx> because you may use it commercially, under GPL
Jan 11 16:25:11 <koen> xorAxAx: "GPL *if* you don't make money of it"
Jan 11 16:25:21 <xorAxAx> koen: but thats a modified GPL
Jan 11 16:25:21 <benJIman> hrw|work: GPL doesn't restrict how you can sell it
Jan 11 16:25:33 <benJIman> koen: that's not a valid restriction of the GPL
Jan 11 16:25:33 <koen> xorAxAx: no, that's dual licensing
Jan 11 16:25:36 <xorAxAx> koen: no
Jan 11 16:25:48 <xorAxAx> GPL says "you may use this shit even if you sell it"
Jan 11 16:25:50 <benJIman> koen: GPL does not prevent you from seling it
Jan 11 16:26:05 <xorAxAx> then if you come and say "but dont make money out of it", then you modified GPL terms
Jan 11 16:26:07 <koen> tell that to TrollTech
Jan 11 16:26:09 <xorAxAx> or contradicted them
Jan 11 16:26:18 <xorAxAx> e.g. mysql:
Jan 11 16:26:23 * koen doesn't use qtopiaaargh
Jan 11 16:26:25 <benJIman> koen: trolltech don't prevent you from selling the GPLed software
Jan 11 16:26:28 <xorAxAx> they dual license their code as well gpl/commercial
Jan 11 16:26:45 <benJIman> If you want to develop non-GPL apps with it you'll need the "commercial" licence
Jan 11 16:26:50 <xorAxAx> which forces all people that use mysql with closed source or gpl incompatible apps to buy the license
Jan 11 16:26:55 <benJIman> but you are free to sell GPLed apps with the GPLed versions
Jan 11 16:27:08 <xorAxAx> the keypoint for them is that the mysql client lib is gpl as ewll
Jan 11 16:27:17 <mitsuhiko> openmoko will use Qt for the gui?
Jan 11 16:27:22 <xorAxAx> no
Jan 11 16:27:25 <benJIman> mitsuhiko: no, gtk
Jan 11 16:27:31 <mitsuhiko> gooooooooooood
Jan 11 16:27:48 <xorAxAx> argh, much rain here
Jan 11 16:27:51 <mitsuhiko> gtk is much more fun to work with
Jan 11 16:28:14 <xorAxAx> mitsuhiko: qt is more enterprisey :)
Jan 11 16:28:35 <aloril> commercial program using QT must release source (GPL) or pay for commercial license for being able to hide source (QPL?)
Jan 11 16:28:43 <aloril> in either case you can sell commercially
Jan 11 16:28:54 <koen> LOL: http://www.freelists.org/archives/linux-cirrus/01-2007/msg00023.html
Jan 11 16:30:55 <xorAxAx> aloril: thats rather too simplified ... if you chose to have a FOSS app that is incompatiblity licensed wrt GPL, then you would have to pay as well
Jan 11 16:31:09 <xorAxAx> but i dont think that anybody would want to do that :)
Jan 11 16:32:16 <Stephmw> koen: my god. that's some serious paranoia
Jan 11 16:32:53 <koen> Stephmw: cute, isn't it?
Jan 11 16:33:13 * kaboofa eats some more popcorn
Jan 11 16:33:27 <Stephmw> koen: strangely enough, most phone manufacturers do this ;-) the onboard ROM is flashed in encrypted form
Jan 11 16:33:51 <Stephmw> koen: using different certificates for commercial and R&D hardware
Jan 11 16:35:55 <aloril> memory mentioned at least contradicts, but I wonder if its otherwise accurate?: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35590
Jan 11 16:36:52 <aloril> umm.. just looked at date, old article
Jan 11 16:39:13 <koen> http://www.openmoko.com/ has all the offical info
Jan 11 16:39:19 <koen> that and the topic :)
Jan 11 16:44:25 <Sencer_> oh, just read the topic. no wifi... :-/
Jan 11 16:45:07 <Sencer_> I assume nobody knows about standbytimes and the like
Jan 11 16:45:45 <aloril> koen: indeed, I had forgotten that pdf referenced from press release page included architecture diagram
Jan 11 16:46:20 <aloril> Sencer_: if you get battery powered hub, then you can get wifi too
Jan 11 16:46:36 <xorAxAx> somebody said that there are microsd cards with wifi
Jan 11 16:46:51 <xorAxAx> mickey|bbl: is the micro sd slot below the battery pack or accessible from outside?
Jan 11 16:46:59 <xorAxAx> in the latter case, that could actually work
Jan 11 16:47:00 <mjr> xorAxAx, and somebody else said that they probably don't fit in Neo's microsd compartment
Jan 11 16:47:01 <hrw|work> xorAxAx: below
Jan 11 16:47:06 <mjr> it's below
Jan 11 16:47:09 <xorAxAx> mjr: ah, ok
Jan 11 17:12:16 <bipolar> In comments on digg, some people were saying something about using the bluetooth chipset as WiFi. To me it seems like they are smoking something. Is there a grain of truth to that at all?
Jan 11 17:13:23 <skome> slow wifi with a few feet of usable range? That kind of wifi?
Jan 11 17:14:32 <bipolar> hehe
Jan 11 17:14:41 <bipolar> ok. thats still weird to me
Jan 11 17:14:57 <bipolar> I guess since they both use a signal at 2.4Ghz...
Jan 11 17:15:43 <Tv> you can run IP over bluetooth
Jan 11 17:15:48 <Tv> maybe that's what they meant
Jan 11 17:16:10 <hrw|work> Tv: and you can even choose methods for it
Jan 11 17:16:14 <hrw|work> PAN or DUN
Jan 11 17:16:31 <Tv> heh, PPP over USB Serial
Jan 11 17:17:59 <koen> bipolar: the people on digg are smoking some good shit
Jan 11 17:18:26 <bipolar> koen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zInetdN7dCo << like that? :P
Jan 11 17:20:28 <koen> LOL
Jan 11 17:20:50 * koen throws in a OMG to complete the netspeak
Jan 11 17:20:57 <bipolar> heh
Jan 11 17:21:19 <kaboofa> I'm going to write my own protocol, instead of having syn/ack it's going to have omg/lol
Jan 11 17:22:03 <skome> you'll eventually need to add in wtf
Jan 11 17:22:18 <kaboofa> s/I'm going to write/I have thought about (but will never will) write
Jan 11 17:22:21 <bipolar> wtf=err
Jan 11 17:22:22 <kaboofa> /
Jan 11 17:22:40 <skome> exactly
Jan 11 17:23:09 <bipolar> omg:lol:omg:lol:omg:lol:omg:OMG:OMG!!!111:wtf
Jan 11 17:23:38 <koen> hmmm
Jan 11 17:23:50 <koen> spam titled "NDA is legal"
Jan 11 17:23:50 <Sencer_> sorry to ask again, but I was disconnected. where is that digg-thread again?
Jan 11 17:24:06 <bipolar> http://digg.com/gadgets/Moko_The_Open_Source_cheaper_alternative_to_iPhone
Jan 11 17:24:14 <Sencer_> thanks :)
Jan 11 17:24:35 <Sencer_> didn't find anything with Neo1973, openmoko oder FIC ^^
Jan 11 17:35:48 <bipolar> I wonder... are there any pay as you go gsm providers?
Jan 11 17:35:56 <bipolar> in the US....
Jan 11 17:36:13 * bipolar must always remember that irc is an international forum. :)
Jan 11 17:36:38 <koen> ~ugt
Jan 11 17:36:38 <skome> Yes
Jan 11 17:36:41 <mickey|bbl> bipolar?
Jan 11 17:36:45 <bipolar> hiya
Jan 11 17:36:46 * mickey|bbl celebrates veteran day
Jan 11 17:36:47 <apt> ugt is, like, Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Jan 11 17:36:52 <skome> http://www.myrateplan.com/wireless_prepaid/filter.php
Jan 11 17:36:55 <mickey|bbl> how are you doing, bipolar?
Jan 11 17:37:15 <bipolar> mickey|bbl: hey mickey|bbl! Doing good, cept for a sprained ankle
Jan 11 17:37:38 <mickey|bbl> how did ya get that?
Jan 11 17:37:46 <mickey|bbl> still doing anything with your ipaq?
Jan 11 17:37:58 <bipolar> walking in the dark like an idiot
Jan 11 17:38:23 <bipolar> my ipaq is in pieces. the battery died. I still have it, and it runs when hooked up to power. :)
Jan 11 17:38:45 <mickey|bbl> then you need a new toy!
Jan 11 17:38:53 <bipolar> mickey|bbl: I still have my Zaurus. If it had built in wifi I think I'd use it more.
Jan 11 17:39:02 <mickey|bbl> right
Jan 11 17:39:06 <bipolar> mickey|bbl: I have a Palm TX.
Jan 11 17:39:08 <mickey|bbl> for a pda, wifi is mandatory nowadays
Jan 11 17:39:10 <mickey|bbl> imo
Jan 11 17:39:37 <koen> and a fpga
Jan 11 17:39:40 <hrw|work> mickey|bbl: you are OE veteran ;)
Jan 11 17:39:43 <bipolar> there is work on a linux port for the TX. I'm hoping some more of the hardware gets supported on it.
Jan 11 17:39:54 <mickey|bbl> hrw|work: that's right. i'd even say you too :)
Jan 11 17:40:01 <hrw|work> ;D
Jan 11 17:40:06 <koen> bipolar: too bad H&D is powered by sheer NIH
Jan 11 17:40:08 <bipolar> yeah. theres a few OE guys here.
Jan 11 17:40:19 <hrw|work> for those which are not familiar with OE: "Why it is worth to choose OE when there are other solutions? For me OE allows for quick start into embedded world without going through horror way of cross-compilation which is quite important in situation when we want to concentrate on out device development. After creating few simple config files we can build working system, use ready recipes to build needed tools (no need to search though internet for th
Jan 11 17:40:20 <bipolar> koen: ahh...
Jan 11 17:40:42 * mickey|bbl runs to the grocery
Jan 11 17:40:46 <mickey|bbl> cu later
Jan 11 17:40:52 <hrw|work> cu mickey|bbl 
Jan 11 17:41:40 <aloril> there are slow and fast 1GB micro SD cards, are those new 2GB cards slow ones? does Neo1973 support fast speed? what is writing/reading speed from ultra II card?
Jan 11 17:42:16 <ericsmythe> Are Sean and the guys still in Amsterdam - American Hotel - anyone know?
Jan 11 17:42:23 <bipolar> koen: the palm ports need a lot of kernel work before they are truly useful.
Jan 11 17:42:49 <koen> ericsmythe: no, sean is in las vegas now
Jan 11 17:42:50 <hrw|work> ericsmythe: arent they in Vegas on CES?
Jan 11 17:43:22 <hrw|work> aloril: I think that it will support slow only mode
Jan 11 17:43:23 <cjb> aloril: no, neo only supports low-speed SD, from what we could see yesterday.
Jan 11 17:43:31 <ericsmythe> Oh sorry, read the Amsterdam.pdf and thought that was today, thanks
Jan 11 17:45:10 <aloril> ok, so ultra II would be just waste of money :-(
Jan 11 17:46:36 * kaboofa is becoming less and less excited about the Neo1973 as time goes by :(
Jan 11 17:47:08 * cjb is plenty excited.
Jan 11 17:47:13 * CM too
Jan 11 17:47:16 * aloril is very exited too
Jan 11 17:47:17 <bipolar> kaboofa: I'd personaly be much, much more excited if it had wifi. otherwise it looks great
Jan 11 17:47:22 <kaboofa> yeah
Jan 11 17:47:33 <kaboofa> i was hoping for something that would let me use zphone/gizmo ;D
Jan 11 17:47:45 <kaboofa> without paying cingular an arm and both legs for unlimited data
Jan 11 17:47:49 <bipolar> yeah. that would be a killer app
Jan 11 17:47:58 * aloril will make program I want to code for it before it will be available
Jan 11 17:49:04 * kaboofa wonders if an SDK/emulator will be available
Jan 11 17:49:24 <kaboofa> maybe I should rephrase, emulator for software development
Jan 11 17:50:23 <aloril> kaboofa: depending on application you could just code by assuming gtk+ and vga?
Jan 11 17:50:27 <bipolar> kaboofa: really don't need an emulator....
Jan 11 17:52:12 * kaboofa has no idea what the phone is running
Jan 11 17:52:15 <hrw|work> kaboofa: sdk will be available
Jan 11 17:52:19 <hrw|work> kaboofa: X11 with GTK
Jan 11 17:52:37 <kaboofa> my brain keeps saying 'arm7' and 'arm9' for some reason, but I think that's because I have been playing with my NDS a lot lately ;o
Jan 11 17:52:42 <bipolar> koen: it looks like the hnd port for the Palm T|X uses OE... thats a good sign.
Jan 11 17:52:59 <hrw|work> bipolar: kind of use
Jan 11 17:53:16 <bipolar> hrw|work: they don't use it for everything?
Jan 11 17:53:30 <hrw|work> kaboofa: building userland applications usualy does not matter which arch you target
Jan 11 17:53:31 <bipolar> I havn't touched OE in a while.
Jan 11 17:53:45 <hrw|work> bipolar: they use OE but prefer to not cooperate too much
Jan 11 17:53:58 <bipolar> hrw|work: thats strange.
Jan 11 17:54:09 <bipolar> do they have a reason for that, other then NIH?
Jan 11 17:54:59 <hrw|work> rather not
Jan 11 17:55:08 <hrw|work> but you - NIH is power
Jan 11 17:55:48 <hrw|work> s/you/you know
Jan 11 17:55:59 <bipolar> NIH is silly
Jan 11 17:56:23 <hrw|work> I know that, you know that, but does they know that?
Jan 11 17:56:30 <bipolar> nothing would ever get done if everyone was like that.
Jan 11 17:57:10 <vargr> down with the iPhone!
Jan 11 17:57:12 <vargr> http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/10/apple-vps-confirm-no-3rd-party-iphone-apps/
Jan 11 17:57:34 <kaboofa> :(
Jan 11 17:57:44 * kaboofa shakes fist at apple
Jan 11 18:02:42 <bipolar> kaboofa: what do you expect? it's Apple after all :)
Jan 11 18:03:47 <kaboofa> bipolar: well, i thought xcode was pretty neat
Jan 11 18:04:08 <kaboofa> if I were not a broke-ass college student I would probably be running all apple hardware ;D
Jan 11 18:05:13 <vargr> this guy's trying:
Jan 11 18:05:14 <vargr> http://rentzsch.com/cocoa/iphoneIndieAppDevelopment
Jan 11 18:05:45 <vargr> he's protesting by filing bugs to apple
Jan 11 18:06:02 <vargr> maybe someone will get through to them eventually
Jan 11 18:07:01 <Sencer_> well, it's better for openmoko if Apple keeps their devices closed, no?
Jan 11 18:07:58 <vargr> Yeah, all the more reason to get one the SECOND it's available.
Jan 11 18:08:54 <vargr> And to boycott the iPhone.
Jan 11 18:09:22 <Sencer_> I am really looking forward to the next generation device that runs moko^^
Jan 11 18:11:57 <Sencer_> but I'll buy a neo just to make sure it succeeds ;)
Jan 11 18:12:33 <vargr> buy two
Jan 11 18:13:03 <hrw> three - one for me ;
Jan 11 18:13:10 <CM> http://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2007/01/11/the-new-iphone-we-have-work-to-do
Jan 11 18:16:38 <buz> without hardware to run on it 3d stuff will be kinda useles
Jan 11 18:16:56 <koen> pvanhoof hasn't found #openmoko yet?
Jan 11 18:18:21 <CM> "OpenMoko and Nokia are, indeed, a good start. In my opinion, we need a lot more like this."
Jan 11 18:18:42 <CM> Briefly I guess
Jan 11 18:19:09 <CM> Oh, sorry, missed the #... 
Jan 11 18:26:21 <buz> mhh steadily climbing
Jan 11 18:26:31 <buz> digg seems to help ;)
Jan 11 18:36:49 <evanpro> hi
Jan 11 18:42:27 <evanpro> that is one informative topic line, right there
Jan 11 18:42:43 <evanpro> so I guess we all stay here and wait for it to change? B-)
Jan 11 18:43:04 <vargr> if we stay here long enough, it'll be februrary
Jan 11 18:43:07 <Sencer_> yes, evanpro
Jan 11 18:43:20 * evanpro watches topic line intently
Jan 11 18:47:47 <noidd> Bluetooth :-)
Jan 11 18:48:33 <koen> hey noidd 
Jan 11 19:01:40 <noidd> hey koen, how goes?
Jan 11 19:25:18 <buz> 4G microsd 
Jan 11 19:25:25 <buz> http://www.mobile-review.com/news.php?language=en#news12096
Jan 11 19:26:56 <thedaniel_> i thought the openmoko could only address 1g?
Jan 11 19:27:54 <buz> we dont know for sure
Jan 11 19:28:06 <buz> some claim 2G should work
Jan 11 19:28:10 <buz> others say it wont
Jan 11 19:28:13 <Stephmw> offtopic... copying a file from linux->windows using keeps taking forever, anyone have an idea?
Jan 11 19:28:32 <buz> and SDHC is special anyhow
Jan 11 19:28:32 <bipolar> Stephmw: stop using windows? :D
Jan 11 19:28:39 <myren> i have a 8GB CF card that does not play happy with my DS
Jan 11 19:28:54 <Stephmw> bipolar: of course. thanks. how did I not think of that?
Jan 11 19:29:07 <bipolar> Stephmw: I dunno... strange, you are....
Jan 11 19:30:22 <buz> try scp over smb
Jan 11 19:30:26 <buz> i've often seen it work much better
Jan 11 19:31:58 <buz> s/over/instead of/
Jan 11 19:33:47 <l4rs> on the sd size topic: is that really an hardware limitation?
Jan 11 20:50:16 <pjz> it could be
Jan 11 20:50:29 <pjz> depending on the bus design, it could be like an address-line limit
Jan 11 20:51:54 <xkr47> does the minisd have an "memory chip" kindof interface? I've understood that at least cf has an "ide emulation" mode in which it's compatible with the ide cable with the help of an adaptor
Jan 11 20:52:11 <xkr47> but otoh I guess then the "normal" mode might be the same "address line" style
Jan 11 20:52:19 <xkr47> if that's the normal style :)
Jan 11 21:01:50 <pjz> I don't know; I think the sd card stuff is also ide-like
Jan 11 21:02:14 <pjz> I guess worst case is someone gets to update the driver +)
Jan 11 21:09:44 <buz> CF is id like
Jan 11 21:09:48 <buz> SD not so much i think
Jan 11 21:10:06 <buz> SDHC actually uses sector addressing as opposed to byte addressing in  plain sd
Jan 11 21:11:13 <buz> (according to wikipedia, anyway)
Jan 11 21:15:45 <kinema> What GI toolkit is used for the OpenMoko platform?
Jan 11 21:15:50 <kinema> s/GI/GUI
Jan 11 21:18:09 <robtaylor> kinema: gtk+
Jan 11 21:18:15 <kaboofa> according to the prophecies, gtk
Jan 11 21:19:15 <thresh_> gtk1.
Jan 11 21:19:25 <kinema> v1?
Jan 11 21:19:37 <kinema> On X or framebuffer?
Jan 11 21:20:30 <koen> gtk 2.6.10 on xserver-kdrive-fbdev
Jan 11 21:20:40 <kinema> :)
Jan 11 21:20:59 <koen> with an option to use gtk 2.10.x if thats is fast enough in later revisions
Jan 11 21:21:08 <kinema> does gtk provide any support for multitouch interfaces?
Jan 11 21:21:34 <koen> nothing in gnu/linux does atm
Jan 11 21:21:40 <koen> (nothing widely used)
Jan 11 21:21:43 <robtaylor> kinema: its up to x, it has support in xorg atm, i think
Jan 11 21:22:07 <robtaylor> but there's no input devices atm
Jan 11 21:22:35 <koen> does the neo support multitouch in hardware?
Jan 11 21:22:40 <koen> last I heard it didn't
Jan 11 21:22:58 <kinema> It seems to me that multtouch touchscreen interfaces would be incredibly usefull for devices such as smartphones
Jan 11 21:23:23 <robtaylor> koen: i very much doubt ir
Jan 11 21:23:27 <robtaylor> *it
Jan 11 21:23:39 <robtaylor> kinema: the tech used in the iPhone is patented to apple
Jan 11 21:23:54 * koen wonders about multitouch on 3" screens
Jan 11 21:24:01 <robtaylor> they sponsored the development of it
Jan 11 21:24:10 <kinema> multitouch interface research has been going on for years
Jan 11 21:24:12 <koen> if I use >1 finger I can't seen the screen :(
Jan 11 21:24:26 <robtaylor> koen: *nod*
Jan 11 21:24:42 <kinema> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/fics-linuxbased-smartphone-213016.php).
Jan 11 21:24:53 <koen> heh
Jan 11 21:24:59 <koen> "Look like the only DOM you'll currently find in rsvg is Mr. Lachowicz. "
Jan 11 21:25:19 <robtaylor> ooh, intersting
Jan 11 21:25:36 <robtaylor> it must be 2 point input using a 5wire
Jan 11 21:25:56 <xkr47> DOM ?-)
Jan 11 21:25:57 <koen> does tslib support that?
Jan 11 21:26:13 <xkr47> GTA001 ?-)
Jan 11 21:41:36 <kinema> I will say that the Neo1973 looks like a nice platform, ugly but the specs look good.  I'm pretty sure I'll be buying myself one when availiable.
Jan 11 21:42:05 <kinema> It's a good start.
Jan 11 21:43:08 <pjz> what's ugly about it?
Jan 11 21:43:40 <kinema> I'm just not much of a fan of the ovalish case.
Jan 11 21:43:46 <pjz> ah
Jan 11 21:44:40 <kinema> I much prefer the physical implementation of the LG KE850 and the iPhonee.
Jan 11 21:45:43 <morricone> someone should update http://www.openmoko.com/ and change January to February
Jan 11 21:59:19 <quants> I should say there are a lot of us here
Jan 11 22:03:40 <quants> will the moko have a camera?
Jan 11 22:04:20 <kinema> afaik no
Jan 11 22:04:31 <kinema> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
Jan 11 22:05:20 <quants> I'd like to see sip on this >> bt 
Jan 11 22:05:41 <kinema> i'm sure we all would.
Jan 11 22:08:07 <Destructo> whats BT ?
Jan 11 22:08:27 <prpplague> bluetooth i would assume
Jan 11 22:08:30 <kinema>  bluetooth
Jan 11 22:08:34 <Destructo> ah right ok
Jan 11 22:08:37 <prpplague> hrw: greetings
Jan 11 22:08:42 <kinema> in what context
Jan 11 22:08:49 <hrw> hi prpplague, all
Jan 11 22:09:07 <prpplague> hrw: start hammering the libertas code on monday
Jan 11 22:09:14 <hrw> prpplague: cool
Jan 11 22:09:38 <prpplague> hrw: 2.4 code is stable and working with wpa_supplicant
Jan 11 22:09:44 <hrw> I have to get my wrt54gs working again ;(
Jan 11 22:09:47 <hrw> prpplague: .19 version?
Jan 11 22:09:49 <prpplague> hrw: yea
Jan 11 22:10:00 <prpplague> hrw: so i have a reference point
Jan 11 22:10:04 <hrw> prpplague: too bad that you cant share it ;(
Jan 11 22:10:28 <hrw> prpplague: I will need 2.4 driver for collie - .11 will have to get working then
Jan 11 22:11:58 <baconet> whois hrw
Jan 11 22:12:14 <hrw> ~hrw
Jan 11 22:12:25 <apt> you are, like, Marcin Juszkiewicz - OpenEmbedded/OpenZaurus/OPIE developer, OpenZaurus 3.5.4.x release maintainer - contact via homepage: http://www.hrw.one.pl/ but also Human Rights Watch organization (both not related)
Jan 11 22:15:06 <Destructo> hrw your home page needs a . after the 3rd w
Jan 11 22:15:22 <hrw> Destructo: where?
Jan 11 22:15:30 <Destructo> on the apt post
Jan 11 22:15:35 <Destructo> http://www.hrw.one.pl/
Jan 11 22:15:49 <hrw> which apt post?
Jan 11 22:15:49 <kinema> that's what apt said
Jan 11 22:15:51 <Destructo> oh wait.. i cant see it nm
Jan 11 22:15:56 <Destructo> sorry
Jan 11 22:15:57 <Stephmw> :)
Jan 11 22:16:19 * Destructo is loooking at new fonts, this one is fired
Jan 11 22:18:02 <prpplague> hrw: i need to double check, but i don't think there is any problem with distribution of the .19 driver
Jan 11 22:18:06 <hrw> Destructo: I propose terminus
Jan 11 22:18:09 <prpplague> hrw: i don't believe we signed anything
Jan 11 22:18:30 <Destructo> k
Jan 11 22:21:26 <kinema> multi-touch interface demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwGAKUForhM
Jan 11 22:22:19 <kinema> granted it's not on a 3" screen
Jan 11 22:39:16 <pjz> is the openmoko multitouch?
Jan 11 22:39:42 <Psi> good question
Jan 11 22:39:44 <kinema> it doesn't appear to be
Jan 11 22:39:56 <mickey|bbl> g'night
Jan 11 22:40:01 <hrw> n8 mickey|zzZZzz 
Jan 11 22:40:14 <xkr47> pjz Psi kinema, http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/fics-linuxbased-smartphone-213016.php
Jan 11 22:41:04 <kinema> xkr47: That and a few other articles seems to be incorrect.
Jan 11 22:41:21 <kinema> the touchscreen is not multitouch capable
Jan 11 22:41:23 <Psi> maybe they intended to do it but put it off until the 2nd version
Jan 11 22:41:29 <xkr47> kinema, :P
Jan 11 22:43:12 <Psi> this may be a stupid question, but do we get the sourcecode to the applications that come with the phone?  sms etc..
Jan 11 22:43:42 <kinema> for everything except the AGPS driver
Jan 11 22:43:47 <Psi> cool
Jan 11 22:44:14 <kinema> that's an undersatement
Jan 11 22:44:23 <cjb> anyone looked into reimplementing the binary gpsd?
Jan 11 22:44:57 <kinema> I doubt it's too high on the list.
Jan 11 22:46:14 <kinema> cjb: actually it looks like there has been talk about it on the mailing list.
Jan 11 22:46:35 <quants> what is multi touch?
Jan 11 22:47:01 <rwhitby> http://ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_han&flashEnabled=1 is the first real demo of multi-touch that I have found.
Jan 11 22:47:13 * cjb has a multi-touch keyboard.
Jan 11 22:47:22 <kinema> i linked to that video on youtube
Jan 11 22:47:23 <cjb> (In fact, Apple bought the company that made it for the IP.)
Jan 11 22:48:12 <rwhitby> cjb: I suspected that, but didn't know for sure.  thanks.
Jan 11 22:49:16 <kinema> http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/
Jan 11 22:49:46 <ericsmythe> Would it be possible to connect a bluetooth kboard to the Neo?
Jan 11 22:49:57 <kinema> shouldn't be a problem
Jan 11 22:50:40 <ericsmythe> An I guess an xterm and stuff like vim, screen and mutt would be easily available?
Jan 11 22:50:55 <Psi> it will be possible to talk to any BT device from the neo, the trick will be that you may have to write the driver yourself
Jan 11 22:52:44 <kinema> Apple must have purchased the rights to the FTIR (frustrated total internal reflection) tech used for multi touch *sensing* (as apposed to any such patents on multitouch UIs)
Jan 11 23:01:41 <robtaylor> kinema: aye
Jan 11 23:05:37 * aevin reads topic
Jan 11 23:06:02 <aevin> OMG, BLEUETOOOHT!!!1111 \o/
Jan 11 23:06:06 <aevin> :)
Jan 11 23:06:11 <aevin> neat.
Jan 11 23:07:12 <kinema> as long as I can play a current fist person shooter with frame rates of 120/sec+ I'll be satisifed.
Jan 11 23:12:02 <aevin> could have been fun applications for a smartphone with accellerometers (or whatever they're called) in it-- in this wiimote days, i mean.
Jan 12 00:24:39 <z3cka> hello
Jan 12 00:24:47 <z3cka> ?
Jan 12 00:25:22 <z3cka> lots of people in here... and not much action hu?
Jan 12 00:25:37 <careo> I think everyone's waiting to get their hands on a phone to play with'
Jan 12 00:26:03 <thedaniel_> it'd be awesome if there was an sdk with an emulator, kind of like you used to get for the hiptop
Jan 12 00:27:16 <careo> yeah. I haven't picked one up yet, but I wonder how the stuff for the Nokia 770 or N800 would apply, both it and the Neo are ARM-based IIRC
Jan 12 00:28:04 <thedaniel_> i haven't used the 770 for more than a few minutes so i couldn't say.  Does anyone know how big the production run of the neo will be?
Jan 12 00:39:09 <quants> probably "not enough"
Jan 12 00:42:32 <spikebik1> ~heh
Jan 12 00:42:41 <apt> heh
Jan 12 00:42:42 <spikebik1> I have a nokia 770, haven't played with the emulator yet though
Jan 12 00:42:51 <spikebik1> Just got a 2GB card for it ;-)
Jan 12 00:47:50 <z3cka> when will the openMoko be available?
Jan 12 00:48:13 <spikebik1> see topic
Jan 12 00:48:56 <spikebik1> I'm not sure I can wait, the motorola rokr e2/A1200 seem relatively similar and attractive
Jan 12 00:54:48 <quants> spikebik1: gtfo
Jan 12 00:56:53 <spikebik1> ?
Jan 12 00:57:14 <quants> you said the m word
Jan 12 00:57:20 <thedaniel_> "get the f out'
Jan 12 00:57:54 <spikebik1> oh, heh
Jan 12 00:58:02 <spikebik1> why is the m word bad?
Jan 12 00:58:27 <quants> moto makes cool BT stuff but their fones sux
Jan 12 00:58:30 <spikebik1> I thought the openezx/motorola folks and the openmoko folks were working closely
Jan 12 00:58:56 <spikebik1> I'm all for the openmoko, and have been playing with the closest I can get in the meantime (gps + nokia 770)
Jan 12 00:59:12 <quants> < zaurus
Jan 12 00:59:54 <spikebik1> the rokr e2 seems to be getting quite positive reviews
Jan 12 01:00:07 <spikebik1> and of course the razr's seem hugely popular
Jan 12 01:00:14 <spikebik1> is there some evilness I'm missing?
Jan 12 01:00:17 <quants> we need a pic of OZ peeing on nokia
Jan 12 01:00:44 <quants> spikebik1: no I just hate moto phones
Jan 12 01:01:15 <spikebik1> any news on what the hacker lunchbox is?
Jan 12 01:01:47 <baburr> so when can I buy this Neo1973?
Jan 12 01:02:04 * quants hands baburr glasses
Jan 12 01:02:15 <WillySilly> baburr: sometime in Feb it looks like
Jan 12 01:03:05 <quants> is there was no topic people could ask all the time
Jan 12 01:03:10 <quants> oh wait...
Jan 12 01:04:22 <WillySilly> Yeah, people dont like to read
Jan 12 01:06:57 <jjazz> WillySilly: Those people probably should stay away from irc.
Jan 12 01:07:27 <WillySilly> I would agree
Jan 12 01:09:03 <baburr> Perhaps 
Jan 12 01:09:19 <baburr> "Neo1973 ETA for early access: February 2007" is too cryptic for newbs
Jan 12 01:10:42 <jjazz> baburr: What about that is cryptic?
Jan 12 01:11:32 <baburr> I am not sure what ETA for early access is...  
Jan 12 01:11:44 <baburr> admittedly, I am a newb
Jan 12 01:13:10 <baburr> it is hard to tell if a newb can buy it in Feb... or only the uber smart phone people
Jan 12 01:17:13 <baburr> Well, anyway thanks for the info...   I am excited about an open platform smart phone  :)
Jan 12 01:49:21 <cbpage> looking at what harold said the work on openmoko should help openezx out a lot too
Jan 12 01:50:26 <douglee> Out of curiosity, what bootloader openmoko use?
Jan 12 01:55:51 <Psi> i think its u-boot
Jan 12 01:56:49 <douglee> cool
Jan 12 02:58:14 <berto-> hi everyone.  i know this is such a premature question, but anyone know when the not-so-oval version of this phone will be released?  ;)
Jan 12 02:59:11 <WillySilly> berto-: try reading the topic
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 12 02:59:57 2007