**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 19 02:59:58 2007
Jan 19 03:36:00 <cld2> sorry to ask a stupid question but is this phone really going to see the light of day? if so I cant wait!
Jan 19 03:41:39 <xkr47> cld2, an announcement is expected about the timetable any day now
Jan 19 03:42:04 <xkr47> but currently the latest official information is february
Jan 19 03:42:12 <cld2> xkr47: thanks. and that would be when the first development phones come out? 
Jan 19 03:42:28 <cld2> or phones for consumers?
Jan 19 03:42:43 <xkr47> I think development phones were out to selected people already last year
Jan 19 03:42:49 <xkr47> I understand this is for consumers
Jan 19 03:43:02 <xkr47> or well
Jan 19 03:43:12 <xkr47> I consider myself a consumer since I'm not a part of the project
Jan 19 03:43:15 <cld2> and is there any word on what the phone will ship with, a phone app I assume and a contacts manager? other then that an empty place to put what you like?
Jan 19 03:43:25 <xkr47> but I sure do consider myself an inofficial developer also :D
Jan 19 03:44:11 <xkr47> cld2, that's been listed in many places but I can't recall now.. there will be a set of standard applications
Jan 19 03:44:54 <rwhitby> xkr47: there are no development phones out as far as I know, other than to OpenMoko staff.
Jan 19 03:45:04 <cld2> yeah, Id like to give a crack at it. I was going to get a symbian nokia but I started seeing news about openmoko and figured I should wait and see. id prefer and OSS phone much more.
Jan 19 03:45:25 <xkr47> rwhitby, well that..
Jan 19 03:45:33 <cld2> does openmoko have any ties to fic other then using there hardware? is openmoko a project within fic?
Jan 19 03:45:48 <rwhitby> xkr47: ?
Jan 19 03:46:22 <xkr47> "Push email, contacts, and calendar synchronization" it says here: http://openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_20061107.txt
Jan 19 03:46:32 <rwhitby> xkr47: I was told that there would be more info about developer access in the announcement today.
Jan 19 03:46:57 <xkr47> rwhitby, ok.. wonder what qualifications they require
Jan 19 03:47:13 <rwhitby> xkr47: send them an email and ask.  that's what I did :-)
Jan 19 03:47:21 <xkr47> did you get a response yet ?-D
Jan 19 03:47:36 <rwhitby> yes, immediately (this was a couple of months ago)
Jan 19 03:47:43 <rwhitby> (I lead the nslu2-linux project)
Jan 19 03:47:51 <xkr47> and the verdict was .. ?-)
Jan 19 03:48:21 <rwhitby> I'm not sure I'm at liberty to discuss private communications ... but I was not disappointed with the response.
Jan 19 03:48:25 <xkr47> ok
Jan 19 03:49:55 <xkr47> "If you are interested in developing Free Software applications for the OpenMoko platform, please send information regarding embedded Linux projects you have contributed to, and the work you have done to coreteam@openmoko.org."
Jan 19 03:50:08 <rwhitby> yep, that's the one.
Jan 19 03:50:29 <xkr47> well.. I haven't done any development for embedded devices :/
Jan 19 03:51:44 <rwhitby> Contributing as a developer to the OpenEmbedded project would be my advice on how to get a foot in the door :-)
Jan 19 03:52:05 <xkr47> heh
Jan 19 03:52:41 <xkr47> "and suddenly in january 2007, all the bugs in openembedded were suddenly fixed"
Jan 19 03:53:08 <xkr47> btw tell me about your nslu2 project
Jan 19 03:54:34 <xkr47> looks you've got green light from linksys :)
Jan 19 03:54:37 <xkr47> nice nice
Jan 19 03:59:21 <rwhitby> xkr47: www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf gives a good background.
Jan 19 04:00:00 * xkr47 has a hard time finding a usb mini-a - mini-b cable that delivers to finland
Jan 19 04:00:06 <xkr47> wonder if the device comes with any cables
Jan 19 04:00:33 <xkr47> maybe I have to start with a mini-a - a converter
Jan 19 04:01:52 <caleb-> xkr47: try trisoft
Jan 19 04:02:23 <xkr47> I did.. maybe I didn't understand german enough :P
Jan 19 04:02:54 <caleb-> xkr47: They have English pages
Jan 19 04:03:12 <xkr47> yes but.. I only find usb-a to usb-mini-a
Jan 19 04:04:23 <caleb-> xkr47: Some Zaurus users made their own cable...:-P
Jan 19 04:04:30 <xkr47> yeah
Jan 19 04:09:07 * xkr47 found this under "OMAP H2 Platform": "USB VBUS is hooked up to a TI TPS65010 power controller (controlled over I2C) so that an A-role system can supply up to 500mA of current for battery charging to a B-role (default peripheral) H2. In A-role (default host), the H2 itself supplies 8mA."
Jan 19 04:09:21 * xkr47 suspects and hopes it works the same way in openmoko
Jan 19 04:10:06 <xkr47> which means it will probably work with cameras etc that supposedly don't need power by themselves to run (they have batteries themselves), merely to detect the connection
Jan 19 04:10:44 <cld2> rwhitby: are you going to scale this year?
Jan 19 04:23:07 <rwhitby> cld2: I'm not personally, but nslu2-linux has a booth.
Jan 19 04:23:32 <cld2> cool, Ill check it out.
Jan 19 04:34:17 <xkr47> rwhitby, nice intro (the pdf)
Jan 19 04:34:45 <rwhitby> xkr47: thx
Jan 19 04:38:00 <xkr47> I hope openmoko one day will be as big as your nslu2 project :)
Jan 19 04:40:20 <rwhitby> xkr47: I expect that it will.
Jan 19 04:42:11 <aloril> hmm.. screen size limits multitouch to 2 fingers (in landscape orientation maybe 3), so no 5 finger gestures even if it supported multitouch
Jan 19 04:43:11 * xkr47 has problems imagining 5-finger gestures.. :)
Jan 19 04:46:20 <aloril> ah, that requires wizardly training (literally ;-)
Jan 19 04:46:28 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 04:46:34 <aloril> I think most limiting factor is brain
Jan 19 04:47:03 * xkr47 wonders that if this february release is for develoeprs only, when will non-embedded-involved people get it ?
Jan 19 04:48:26 <aloril> dunno though, there might be some 'common' firing, but it might be just training issue too, I don't know
Jan 19 04:49:46 <aloril> for example bending little finger and middle finger *only* doesn't seem so easy
Jan 19 04:50:58 <aloril> simple example: reportedly morse record is 35wpm (mentioned in this channel, didn't google)
Jan 19 04:51:15 <aloril> so.. 5 fingers * 35 = 175 wpm ;-)
Jan 19 04:51:24 <xkr47> loool
Jan 19 04:51:44 <xkr47> maybe you need some sleep ;)
Jan 19 04:52:17 <aloril> but in practice I don't think you can really move those that fast without having effect on each other :-(
Jan 19 04:54:11 <ozamosi> we had a lecture about stylus inputs in school.
Jan 19 04:54:24 <aloril> when looking at multitouch demos I think yeah, zoom, etc.. it does look cool, but this is just "most obvious things beginning"
Jan 19 04:54:55 <aloril> I just hope that more advanced "casting spells" stuff is not invented by somebody who patents and closes them
Jan 19 04:55:14 <xkr47> go on, make some prior art already :)
Jan 19 04:55:51 <ozamosi> He had some kind of system that would look at the shapes of what you were writing, instead of the actual letters you hit. I think something like that would be more usefull than using 5 fingers on a tiny, tiny screen
Jan 19 04:56:06 <aloril> ozamosi: definitely
Jan 19 04:56:37 <aloril> ozamosi: yes, 5 fingers not feasible on this size, so need to be content with 2 (or at most 3 fingers)
Jan 19 04:56:59 <aloril> but... looking at 2-3 (5) shapes would be even better
Jan 19 04:57:53 <ozamosi> Well, the shapes comes from not lifting your fingers. I'm not sure how you're meaning, but it sounds more like typing
Jan 19 04:57:54 <aloril> xkr47: one that I think most is to research how to make gestures with several fingers at same time so that you could input faster than just with 1 finger gestures
Jan 19 04:58:17 <aloril> ozamosi: I do mean not lifting fingers and moving several at same time
Jan 19 04:58:40 <ozamosi> Ah, ok.
Jan 19 04:59:03 <aloril> imagine something like this (lets assume enough big screen for now for 5 fingers):
Jan 19 04:59:09 <ozamosi> I just don't understand how you're going to see the screen, but I suppose that will sort itself out :)
Jan 19 04:59:37 <xkr47> don't see the screen, know the screen :)
Jan 19 04:59:39 <ozamosi> anyway: I would rather use Dasher, since it's so damn fun! :D
Jan 19 05:00:37 <aloril> fingers are moving on screen most of time making gestures and that involves of course frequent short 'untap' between gestures
Jan 19 05:01:03 <aloril> ie.. fingers are lifted from screen only for short time, a bit opposite of typing where fingers tap shortly key
Jan 19 05:01:22 <aloril> well.. you really need to see 1 line of text ;-)
Jan 19 05:01:57 <aloril> ie.. weaving spell on screen might be good 'image'
Jan 19 05:04:45 <CM> Does anyone have a clue how to lock/unlock the touchscreen for input?
Jan 19 05:04:47 <aloril> usb multitouch screen!?
Jan 19 05:05:08 <aloril> CM: make certain gesture to unlock?
Jan 19 05:05:12 <CM> Is that what the only button is for?
Jan 19 05:05:20 <aloril> (and for record I had this idea before seeing iPhone)
Jan 19 05:05:22 <CM> aloril: And same to lock?
Jan 19 05:05:34 <aloril> CM: same of different gesture
Jan 19 05:05:40 <aloril> s/of/or/
Jan 19 05:05:40 <apt> aloril meant: CM: same or different gesture
Jan 19 05:06:35 <CM> rwhitby: Nice presentation :)
Jan 19 05:06:40 <ozamosi> http://www.ida.liu.se/~perkr/publications.html Found the guy doing the pattern-thingy (there are videos)
Jan 19 05:06:50 * CM is thinking like xkr47
Jan 19 05:07:14 <rwhitby> CM: thx
Jan 19 05:09:15 <CM> rwhitby: Just a small thing, the last two 2004 in the timeline should probably be 2005. (Not complaining, just way too used to proof reading thesises and such)
Jan 19 05:10:45 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 05:11:32 <CM> xkr47: I guess maybe we'll have to download the devkit and get something together in the emulator
Jan 19 05:11:39 <CM> :)
Jan 19 05:12:03 <xkr47> CM, you mean openembedded ?
Jan 19 05:12:52 <CM> No, I meant the OpenMoko kit. I mean if I don't get a phone right away it would still be fun to play with the toolkit
Jan 19 05:12:55 <aloril> here is one maybe unpractical idea: one finger types stuff, second finger search/cut/paste/move/etc...
Jan 19 05:13:02 <aloril> a bit like vim 2 modes at same time
Jan 19 05:13:07 * CM likes vim
Jan 19 05:13:38 * PirateHead wonders if emacs will run smoothly on the openmoko
Jan 19 05:13:45 <rwhitby> CM: thx - error fixed.
Jan 19 05:14:01 <WillySilly> PirateHead: no, it'll only run vi :P
Jan 19 05:14:07 <aloril> umm.. emacs runs on 486 ... and neo1973 is quite amount more powerful ;-)
Jan 19 05:14:29 <rwhitby> PirateHead: no reason why not.  Emacs runs fine on the nslu2, and the neo has more processing power than that.
Jan 19 05:14:30 <CM> rwhitby: NP. But now you've made me want to buy a NSLU2...
Jan 19 05:14:42 <rwhitby> CM: it's the perfect companion to a neo
Jan 19 05:14:51 <PirateHead> Just getting emacs working will provide a ton of functionality, then.
Jan 19 05:14:53 <CM> With a bluetooth plug
Jan 19 05:14:55 <CM> ?
Jan 19 05:15:02 <PirateHead> Provided there's a good text input system.
Jan 19 05:15:04 <aloril> http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html look pretty nice for 1 finger input
Jan 19 05:15:12 <rwhitby> CM: yep
Jan 19 05:15:17 <CM> :)
Jan 19 05:15:17 <PirateHead> I wonder whether hexinput will work well without a stylus.
Jan 19 05:15:30 <rwhitby> as I said on the ml, I use it that way with the Treo 650 every day.
Jan 19 05:15:36 <PirateHead> Anybody know for sure whether the Neo1973 will support stylus use?
Jan 19 05:16:10 <CM> PirateHead: It's a stylus to it
Jan 19 05:16:23 <PirateHead> CM: what's a stylus to what?
Jan 19 05:16:49 <CM> I mean the Neo has a one of those plastic pens :)
Jan 19 05:16:59 <PirateHead> It comes with one?
Jan 19 05:17:09 <CM> That's what Laf0rge said a few days ago
Jan 19 05:17:19 <PirateHead> That's good news.
Jan 19 05:17:38 <PirateHead> I bet the hacker's lunchbox reads your mind.
Jan 19 05:17:46 <PirateHead> But only if you think in bash script.
Jan 19 05:18:26 <PirateHead> But then it'll wig out every time I think "wget -r pr0nz"
Jan 19 05:18:51 <ozamosi> aloril: *slow thinker* sudently, i start thinking of datahand keyboards ( http://www.datahand.com/ ), and of whether a similar technique could be adopted for something like this (think one hand dvorak for instance)
Jan 19 05:19:52 <PirateHead> I need to do some math out loud.
Jan 19 05:20:04 <PirateHead> 26 letters, plus a few common keys for chat input
Jan 19 05:20:26 <PirateHead> space, return, shift, backspace, smily face, frowny face
Jan 19 05:20:36 <PirateHead> 6 extra characters. any big ones I missed, for IMing?
Jan 19 05:20:52 <PirateHead> Total of 36 characters
Jan 19 05:20:58 <ozamosi> PirateHead: å, ä, ö. I can't live without those three :P
Jan 19 05:21:05 <ozamosi> Period, comma
Jan 19 05:21:23 <PirateHead> That's true. Apostrophe and quotes, also
Jan 19 05:21:26 <PirateHead> so we're up to 40
Jan 19 05:21:30 <ozamosi> dash
Jan 19 05:21:33 <CM> What about / and ~?
Jan 19 05:22:08 <PirateHead> \/`~-_=+[{]}\|<>
Jan 19 05:22:11 <PirateHead> can all sort of be forgotten
Jan 19 05:22:18 <ozamosi> But by including a alt gr, we could put all the weird characters on the alphanumeric characters
Jan 19 05:22:29 <ozamosi> right! Numbers!
Jan 19 05:22:32 <PirateHead> @ is important, so is !,
Jan 19 05:22:41 <PirateHead> and numbers 0-9
Jan 19 05:22:42 <aloril> ozamosi: seems similar idea to twiddler2
Jan 19 05:22:44 <PirateHead> now we're up to 62
Jan 19 05:22:47 <PirateHead> I mean 52
Jan 19 05:23:07 * ozamosi feels determined to reach 101 :)
Jan 19 05:23:19 <CM> Hehe..
Jan 19 05:23:20 <aloril> ozamosi: uups. actually different idea
Jan 19 05:24:56 <PirateHead> a-z, 0-9, shift, space, backspace, return, period, comma, apostrophe, quote, exclamation, at-symbol, smily face, frowny face
Jan 19 05:25:04 <PirateHead> comes pretty close to what i use during most IMing
Jan 19 05:25:34 <CM> shift + 0-9 is ten of those not alpha numeric..
Jan 19 05:25:45 <PirateHead> that's true
Jan 19 05:25:56 * CM vill också ha åäö
Jan 19 05:26:47 <PirateHead> So here's what I'm thinking
Jan 19 05:27:09 <ozamosi> Cool! A swede!
Jan 19 05:27:14 <PirateHead> a one-handed keyboard, where you essentially tap up to 3 "keys" at a time to output an ASCII code
Jan 19 05:27:19 <PirateHead> that corresponds to the character that you want to enter
Jan 19 05:27:26 <PirateHead> so then each tap-set represents one keystroke
Jan 19 05:27:49 <ozamosi> PirateHead: that sounds either like a cell phone, or like twiddler2
Jan 19 05:28:02 * CM wants a modified hexinput
Jan 19 05:28:06 <PirateHead> It's like the twiddler2, but much less stupid.
Jan 19 05:28:23 <PirateHead> I'm gonna have to put a prototype together and start messing.
Jan 19 05:28:45 <PirateHead> The exercise will be to see if I can get IMing working using only the keys qwer and asdf
Jan 19 05:29:00 <aloril> middle finger -> text input, index finger -> mode (like in vim, etc..: search/move/cut/paste/etc...), thumb -> additional modifier
Jan 19 05:29:32 <aloril> gestures allowed for all, but probably more limited for index finger and even more limited for thumb
Jan 19 05:29:50 <aloril> and I think neo1973 screen is enough big for this
Jan 19 05:30:30 <PirateHead> aloril: which scheme are you talking about?
Jan 19 05:30:43 <aloril> hexinput like for middle finger
Jan 19 05:30:56 <aloril> something similar but more limited for mode selection for index finger
Jan 19 05:31:09 <PirateHead> I wonder whether the surface area of the finger is too big to have small enough hex squares
Jan 19 05:31:32 <PirateHead> you'd have to put some really smart filtering in place to keep from hitting random adjacent hexagons
Jan 19 05:32:25 <aloril> PirateHead: I'm going to credit you for coming up with term "casting spell" for multigesture stuff ;-)
Jan 19 05:32:28 <CM> Probably using the edge of your nail
Jan 19 05:32:31 <CM> if you have that long..
Jan 19 05:32:39 <CM> Or just the stylus
Jan 19 05:32:55 <aloril> yeah.. having actual multitouch screen would allow some testing what is actually possible
Jan 19 05:34:12 <aloril> 2007-01-10 08:29:32 <aloril>    hmm.. 3D multi gesture ...
Jan 19 05:34:12 <aloril> 2007-01-10 08:29:47 <aloril>    2 high resolution cameras and .. ;-)
Jan 19 05:34:12 <aloril> 2007-01-10 08:30:16 <PirateHead>        and then suddenly using your cellphone looks like casting spells in old fantasy fic flicks
Jan 19 05:34:49 <aloril> that is ultimate: phone is in pocket, hmd and 3D gestures (aka casting spells)
Jan 19 05:36:03 <PirateHead> quite a vision for the future
Jan 19 05:36:08 <PirateHead> all I know is, my arms would get tired
Jan 19 05:36:32 <aloril> yeah, maybe better just keep arms down and just move fingers
Jan 19 05:38:38 <PirateHead> pretty soon, there will be a list of cell phone commands
Jan 19 05:38:49 <ozamosi> Oh! How about a 3d projection of the monitor in front of you? :)
Jan 19 05:38:49 <PirateHead> it'll look like
Jan 19 05:38:56 <PirateHead> Open Contact List
Jan 19 05:38:57 <ozamosi> s/monitor/screen/
Jan 19 05:38:57 <apt> ozamosi meant: Oh! How about a 3d projection of the screen in front of you? :)
Jan 19 05:38:59 <PirateHead> Conjuration
Jan 19 05:39:03 <PirateHead> Components: V, S
Jan 19 05:39:20 <PirateHead> You use gestures to open a mystical list of all the people you know.
Jan 19 05:39:32 <PirateHead> The NSA gets to make a search check on your phone.
Jan 19 05:41:07 <ozamosi> "I don't have it on me - it's at my house. My hands are communicating with it over VLAN"
Jan 19 05:41:50 <PirateHead> hah.
Jan 19 05:41:55 <aloril> http://www.tengo.net/ has nice claims
Jan 19 05:51:38 <aloril> (and I recall seeing some reviews of it too)
Jan 19 06:56:31 <aloril> hmm.. for full spell casting should not only be multitouch, but also sensitive to how hard you press
Jan 19 07:06:06 * xkr47 forgets
Jan 19 07:06:33 <xkr47> I've been coding for palm .. but otoh they (openmoko) wanted embedded linux experience
Jan 19 07:06:37 <xkr47> but maybe it will do
Jan 19 07:14:31 <rwhitby> xkr47: the worst they can say is no :-)
Jan 19 07:14:43 <xkr47> :P
Jan 19 07:56:24 <CM> Only embedded stuff I've done is vhdl on atmels, and j2me on phones..
Jan 19 07:57:31 <CM> And I surely wouldn't call j2me embedded ;)
Jan 19 07:57:36 <Elephantman> hello :)
Jan 19 07:57:37 <CM> Morning
Jan 19 08:06:06 <Fletch> any details about the time when the roadmap will be announced?
Jan 19 08:06:37 <CM> I hope soon, since Taiwan is gmt+8
Jan 19 08:07:17 <aloril> still > 6 hours left of Friday there
Jan 19 08:09:06 <xkr47> :D
Jan 19 08:09:16 <xkr47> never has this channel been so timezone-aware before :)
Jan 19 08:10:48 <CM> I get annoyed when people call from another time-zone and has no clue it's 5 in the morning where I am. It's not that hard to calculate..
Jan 19 08:11:13 * Sum1 points to www.timeanddate.com: I live on it during some projects!
Jan 19 08:14:40 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 08:15:54 <xkr47> CM, so you get a moko and implement http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/Profiles?highlight=%28OpenMoko%2FIdeas%29  :)
Jan 19 08:16:34 <CM> xkr47: Great ideas :)
Jan 19 08:21:13 <yacc> http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/Profiles <-- added an idea about dealing with timezones.
Jan 19 08:21:40 <CM> aloril: Add your input ideas there too maybe?
Jan 19 08:23:34 <yacc> Just wondering, will the basic framework support voice mail applications on the phone?
Jan 19 08:23:41 <aloril> CM: yeah should do that and also write that mail about various ideas I have too
Jan 19 08:24:50 <CM> I should too, but unfortunally I'm a master procrastinator
Jan 19 08:25:30 <aloril> I assume you can have device like this (who knows, maybe lunch box already includes it):
Jan 19 08:26:04 <aloril> 2 AA's (better energy&price/size ratio than AAA)
Jan 19 08:26:13 <aloril> 4 USB ports
Jan 19 08:26:36 <aloril> and power from AA to 4 USB ports and also for Neo1973 for charging it
Jan 19 08:27:06 <aloril> just get enough rechargeable AA batteries and you can use Neo1973 as long as you want and have wifi+camera+etc..
Jan 19 08:27:49 <xkr47> yacc, lol @ timezone thing
Jan 19 08:28:13 <yacc> xkr47: Why lol?
Jan 19 08:28:43 <yacc> xkr47: nothing funnier than getting woken up at 4AM, because somebody calls to ask the office hours? (lived that through)
Jan 19 08:29:28 <yacc> aloril: And naturally you carry half-an-office worth of cables with you :(
Jan 19 08:29:32 <xkr47> CM, http://up.kupatrix.com/f/8/Motivational_Poster_Collection/Procrastination.png
Jan 19 08:30:04 <CM> xkr47: Hehe.. Brillian. I'll put that up here on my desk
Jan 19 08:30:42 <aloril> yacc: wifi stick: no cables, neo <-> hub: cable, camera: cable, so yeah 2 cables needed
Jan 19 08:32:28 <yacc> aloril: :) what we've learned from the last days of feeding trolls on the list is that requirements and acceptable limitations are a very personal thing. E.g. I do know that cables are nothing for me => I've noticed that my usage of headset has gone way up when I've got a BT one.
Jan 19 08:33:30 <aloril> yacc: yeah, don't need to have those 2 cables all the time connected
Jan 19 08:34:46 <aloril> I hope there is enough so that it doesn't sell out in < 24h
Jan 19 08:35:26 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 08:35:27 <xkr47> yeah
Jan 19 08:36:01 <xkr47> "all neo1973 phones sold in march were equipped with openmoko due to huge demand - china windows buyers will have to wait another month"
Jan 19 08:36:39 <aloril> haha
Jan 19 08:42:26 <xkr47> yacc, I read your timezone thing again and I must have skipped a bit too much the first time.. so you mean it would tell the caller what the time currently is in your timezone if he's too far away ?
Jan 19 08:43:41 <yacc> xkr47: Well, that can be hard to implement (good TTS is not easy to come by), but it would be ok if it would just play back a recorded message that the user recorded before.
Jan 19 08:43:54 <xkr47> "vqjojv.. morning, Jeff here.. why do you call me at this hour.. it's 'four' 'thirty' 'three' in the morning! good night to you! <click>"
Jan 19 08:44:34 <yacc> Basically, when I'm home in Austria, and somebody calls from the US, it should tell them "watch out the timezone, hangup in the next 15seconds to avoid waking yacc up."
Jan 19 08:44:35 <xkr47> "click 1 to wake me up anyway"
Jan 19 08:44:50 <yacc> xkr47: yeah something like that.
Jan 19 08:44:53 <xkr47> you could ahve a countdown :)
Jan 19 08:45:49 <yacc> xkr47: the technical implementation might depend strongly upon what is possible, BUT the idea is to classify incoming caller ids by timezone/country.
Jan 19 08:46:42 <xkr47> is there some online db mapping prefixes to countries ?
Jan 19 08:47:00 <xkr47> or better yet, longitudes and latitudes :)
Jan 19 08:47:10 <XorA> caller ID for foreign networks doesnt work in the uk :-(
Jan 19 08:47:19 <yacc> And to give callers from far away the possibility of back off from their call.
Jan 19 08:47:20 <ColdFyre> hi
Jan 19 08:47:27 <yacc> XorA: it works herearound.
Jan 19 08:47:47 <aloril> or: 1 to leave message, 2 to wake up
Jan 19 08:48:00 <yacc> XorA: That's something we need to take into account => different countries, different networks => different rules apply.
Jan 19 08:48:37 <xkr47> well.. I mean .. prefixes are listed somewhere
Jan 19 08:48:46 <xkr47> so it can be hardcoded
Jan 19 08:49:38 <xkr47> and if the prefix spans many timezones, you might want to find out the worst-case difference and use that as base :)
Jan 19 08:50:13 <Sencer> does anybody remember the sony z5? it used to have a built-in answering machine
Jan 19 08:51:54 <Paladine> http://pong.no/~opyrt/Terrible-F1-accident.jpg
Jan 19 08:51:54 <XorA> you can use there address in your address book to narrow down the timezone, if != addressboook then guess else use real address
Jan 19 08:52:20 <yacc> xkr47: yes, or the average difference. The idea is to give a service to the owner of the phone and caller. Because many people don't know if one travels, so they cannot decide if something is important enough to call.
Jan 19 08:52:58 <yacc> So the question stays, will the phone have a sensible way to launch a voice mail app?
Jan 19 08:53:01 <xkr47> well.. presence information is at least in hype stage today so maybe it will break through in some 5 years
Jan 19 08:53:07 <MenZa> Paladine: ohnoes!
Jan 19 08:53:22 <xkr47> Paladine, lol
Jan 19 08:53:24 <Paladine> MenZa, hehehe funniest one I have seen in a while
Jan 19 08:53:27 <XorA> although in all this, why does it matter the callers timezone? I as a receiver would just like a phone to say, OI its midnight in my timezone fsckoff!
Jan 19 08:53:38 <JJ_Reimer> Is openmoko going to be based off of OpenEmbedded?
Jan 19 08:54:19 <Sencer> JJ_Reimer: it will use openembedded as a build system
Jan 19 08:54:34 <JJ_Reimer> ah... 
Jan 19 08:59:00 <xkr47> lol @ koens google.com mail :D
Jan 19 08:59:10 <JJ_Reimer> what user interface?  Is it Opie based?  GTK?  or a new one?
Jan 19 08:59:42 <mindcrusher[ro]> when will be the anoncement made?
Jan 19 09:00:03 <xkr47> any century now
Jan 19 09:02:17 <aloril> Gtk2+
Jan 19 09:02:53 <JJ_Reimer> ah, thx
Jan 19 09:03:06 <JJ_Reimer> so I guess it will need X then?
Jan 19 09:03:21 <xkr47> X, gtk2, framebuffer.. it's got them all
Jan 19 09:03:40 <JJ_Reimer> ok.. that's a pretty hefty resource requirement, no?
Jan 19 09:03:54 <xkr47> we'll see :)
Jan 19 09:03:59 <JJ_Reimer> :)
Jan 19 09:05:15 <JJ_Reimer> what's the memory for the Neo1973?
Jan 19 09:06:02 <Paladine> 128MB dram and 128MB flash
Jan 19 09:06:07 <xkr47> 64M flash ?
Jan 19 09:06:34 <Paladine> according to the article I read yesterday it is 128MB DRAM and 128MB Flash
Jan 19 09:06:48 <JJ_Reimer> 128M would be good for a PDA based linux
Jan 19 09:06:50 <xkr47> well.. according to openmoko.com, it's 64
Jan 19 09:07:14 <JJ_Reimer> I ask because, I find 64 a little small for OpenZaurus with X, GTK
Jan 19 09:07:14 <aloril> 128MiB SDRAM + 64MiB NAND Flash + micro SD
Jan 19 09:07:16 <xkr47> I don't see what's the difference if you can get a microSD card to extend that..
Jan 19 09:07:42 <JJ_Reimer> 128 is nice fast zoom room
Jan 19 09:07:42 <xkr47> I hope they use some JFFS or similar flash file system
Jan 19 09:07:53 <xkr47> zoom room ?-)
Jan 19 09:08:15 <JJ_Reimer> :) just made that up... faster memory than SD
Jan 19 09:08:28 <JJ_Reimer> or flash
Jan 19 09:08:41 <xkr47> ok well dunno about that
Jan 19 09:08:56 <xkr47> N800 has 256M I heard
Jan 19 09:09:14 <XorA> xkr47: who doesnt use jffs2 on internal flash?
Jan 19 09:09:27 <XorA> xkr47: apart from the very rare cramfs
Jan 19 09:09:31 <xkr47> XorA, my fuji F10 camera :)
Jan 19 09:09:36 <koen> XorA: joern engel  and wookey :)
Jan 19 09:09:44 <XorA> koen: but they are mad
Jan 19 09:09:57 <koen> XorA: of whom joern isn't crazy :)
Jan 19 09:10:02 <xkr47> :D
Jan 19 09:10:09 <JJ_Reimer> woah! nice interface... just looking at the Neo1973 overview
Jan 19 09:10:12 <yacc> Hmm, crazy, but it seems the data-over-voice idea is potentially possible :)
Jan 19 09:10:39 <xkr47> JJ_Reimer, check the wiki, it's got links to press releases with more (and newer) screenshots
Jan 19 09:10:43 <yacc> Somebody has written a partial softmodem for Linux, that happens to have some of the lowspeed codecs working (the page claims).
Jan 19 09:10:52 <yacc> http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/DataLinkViaGsmVoiceConnection#preview
Jan 19 09:10:52 <JJ_Reimer> at linuxdevices
Jan 19 09:11:16 <JJ_Reimer> I wish my zaurus looked like that :(
Jan 19 09:11:32 <yacc> 300bps full duplex should go over GSM voice one might hope ;)
Jan 19 09:12:36 <JJ_Reimer> Yes... that site does say 128 MB SDRAM
Jan 19 09:12:39 <xkr47> yacc, will you update the page ?-)
Jan 19 09:12:45 <yacc> xkr47: I already did.
Jan 19 09:12:46 <xkr47> JJ_Reimer, we never questioned that :)
Jan 19 09:12:50 <xkr47> yacc, nicenice
Jan 19 09:13:33 <JJ_Reimer> oh... I must have been confused :)
Jan 19 09:13:36 <yacc> 300bps is not much, but probably enough to chatting or push mails. Makes only sense for people with extreme calling plans, but that's what is the reality.
Jan 19 09:13:55 <xkr47> mm
Jan 19 09:13:56 <XorA> the only problem with the softmodem on a battery device is the cpu is going to be stuck at 100% load doing the (de)modulation
Jan 19 09:14:15 <JJ_Reimer> ah yes... just misunderstood the previous
Jan 19 09:14:17 <xkr47> well, openmoko is the perfect platform for all those problems.. they can usually be solved
Jan 19 09:14:25 <yacc> xkr47: WiFi is not an issue in .de/.at, but it seems there are places with sensible flat rates for WiFi.
Jan 19 09:14:41 <yacc> OTOH, we do have voice flat rates in Germany ;)
Jan 19 09:14:56 <yacc> but we do also have data flatrates ;)
Jan 19 09:15:10 <xkr47> you are sooo flat
Jan 19 09:15:26 <yacc> XorA: it might be so or not. No idea how much cpu that ancient stuff will take.
Jan 19 09:15:58 <XorA> well at least 9600 isnt quadrature multiplxed
Jan 19 09:16:18 <yacc> xkr47: :-P
Jan 19 09:18:51 <yacc> http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/dvbt/ is offtopic, but somehow crazy.
Jan 19 09:19:37 <JJ_Reimer> hmmm... does the neo1973 have bluetooth?  I see blueZ in the OpenMoko Software Architecture chart
Jan 19 09:19:48 <xkr47> JJ_Reimer, read topic
Jan 19 09:20:08 * XorA notices the multitouch entry
Jan 19 09:20:17 <JJ_Reimer> :)
Jan 19 09:20:22 <JJ_Reimer> right
Jan 19 09:20:23 <XorA> someone been brainwashed by the iphone
Jan 19 09:20:28 <yacc> JJ_Reimer: it does.
Jan 19 09:20:39 <JJ_Reimer> sorry
Jan 19 09:20:46 <JJ_Reimer> yes, I see topic
Jan 19 09:21:50 <JJ_Reimer> ah... kdrive... makes sense
Jan 19 09:26:58 * yacc wants a Neo to try hacking the softmodem stuff. ;)
Jan 19 09:29:32 * CM wants to hack on the music player and games
Jan 19 09:29:44 <xkr47> CM, xmms2 per chance ?-)
Jan 19 09:30:35 <CM> Heh, I read their blog, but still running mpd on my server at home
Jan 19 09:30:45 <CM> And I use Muine
Jan 19 09:31:06 <CM> The gui in Muine is truly great
Jan 19 09:32:11 <xkr47> great as in giant ?-)
Jan 19 09:33:18 <CM> No, as in lean and uncluttered
Jan 19 09:51:49 <florian_> good morning
Jan 19 09:52:36 <xkr47> gug
Jan 19 10:10:13 <tm> morning
Jan 19 10:11:29 <CrippledCanary> Is Feb -07 still valid for launch?
Jan 19 10:12:08 <hyakuhei> hehe
Jan 19 10:14:44 <hrw|work> hmm.. Taiwan Friday will soon end...
Jan 19 10:15:25 <yinjieh> yes
Jan 19 10:20:39 <xorAxAx> but the friday in alaska wont end soon
Jan 19 10:20:47 <tm> :)
Jan 19 10:36:54 <Lorphos> What pieces are missing to get OpenEmbed running on MacOSX?
Jan 19 10:37:29 <xkr47> I guess this is the wrong forum for that q
Jan 19 10:37:51 <hrw|work> Lorphos: ask on #oe
Jan 19 10:45:56 <Marty_S> no wifi?
Jan 19 10:46:31 <CM> Nope :)
Jan 19 10:46:46 <Marty_S> what about VOIP?
Jan 19 10:46:52 <Marty_S> then
Jan 19 10:47:35 <Marty_S> is that kind of quite a big omission?
Jan 19 10:47:49 * hrw|work plan to use voip over BT
Jan 19 10:47:50 <Marty_S> or not?
Jan 19 10:47:51 <CM> Not for version 1. It's a phone
Jan 19 10:48:23 <xkr47> Marty_S, there was problems finding a good wlan chip for the phone
Jan 19 10:48:40 <xkr47> Marty_S, or well, there are chips, but the driver needs to be open source as well and that was a bit harder
Jan 19 10:48:50 <xkr47> Marty_S, and it can't be one that takes a lot of power either
Jan 19 10:49:02 <xkr47> Marty_S, but I'm sure they will try hard to find one for version 2
Jan 19 10:49:13 <Marty_S> yeah it looks beautiful
Jan 19 10:49:46 <xkr47> but I'm too drooly to wait for v2.. I can probably lose many nights of sleep without the wlan :)
Jan 19 10:49:59 <xkr47> even without the wlan*
Jan 19 10:51:36 <florian> *yawn*
Jan 19 10:56:30 <Lorphos> so, i guess it's march then after all, if february is ETA for early access.. bummer
Jan 19 10:58:02 <xkr47> (if you read the topic, you see that) there will be a roadmap announcement today
Jan 19 10:58:08 <xkr47> we're all sitting tight waiting for it :)
Jan 19 11:19:17 <Lorphos> if sean is currently in asia, i guess we can expect the announcement rather early today :-D
Jan 19 11:27:03 <ozamosi> It's been friday for AGES :(
Jan 19 11:27:43 <etf|work> yup, I keep on hitting refresh and it's not making that annoucnement come quicker
Jan 19 11:28:18 <TRIsoft> There was no word _which_ Friday was meant ;-)
Jan 19 11:29:24 <ozamosi> The last announcement was on tuesday, and it as that there was going to be an announcement today :/
Jan 19 11:31:57 <CM> Someone should say something at least..
Jan 19 11:32:06 <TRIsoft> "something"
Jan 19 11:32:26 <CM> TRIsoft: :P
Jan 19 11:32:40 <koen> maybe announcement was "I'm hungry, let's do breakfast"
Jan 19 11:32:59 <TRIsoft> :D
Jan 19 11:33:08 <Sencer_> there is a rumour they are switching to windows mobile ^^
Jan 19 11:33:32 <hrw|work>  o.. TRIsoft officially here
Jan 19 11:33:46 <hrw|work> TRIsoft: hi Mac
Jan 19 11:33:47 <CM> Sencer_: Hehe... That's the way! Provoke to get an announcement
Jan 19 11:33:59 <TRIsoft> hrw|work: Yep. Listening what the specialists say :-)
Jan 19 11:34:06 <ozamosi> Sencer_: i think the phone is going to be sold in china with windows mobile
Jan 19 11:34:18 <koen> Sencer_: you do know the phone actually comes with wince, right?
Jan 19 11:34:40 <Sencer_> yes, see, in every rumour there is a grain of truth
Jan 19 11:34:53 <Sencer_> even the ones I just make up on the spot
Jan 19 11:36:25 <mindcrusher[ro]> so how long till he announcement?
Jan 19 11:37:24 <Lorphos> sean was last soon in Taiwan and it's already in the evening there.. so if he indeed makes the announcement it can't be too far off
Jan 19 11:37:31 <goraxe> 2369:2007 Jan 18 11:47:55  <Psi> im pretty sure the windows version is specific
Jan 19 11:37:31 <goraxe> 2370:2007 Jan 18 11:48:37  <Psi> ie, you order one or the other
Jan 19 11:37:32 <Lorphos> s/soon/seen/
Jan 19 11:37:33 <apt> Lorphos meant: sean was last seen in Taiwan and it's already in the evening there.. so if he indeed makes the announcement it can't be too far off
Jan 19 11:45:29 <xkr47> goraxe, what might that mean.. different hardware or..
Jan 19 11:46:41 <goraxe> xkr47: from the conv from yesterday some one asked if win{ce,mobile} would be avaliable Psi responded with he thought it would be avalible but you would have to order a specific version (ie linux ver or win* ver)
Jan 19 11:46:57 <ozamosi> xkr47: the way I've understood it, you can buy the same hardware with either win or openmoko on it.
Jan 19 11:47:24 <xkr47> would be nice to know the price difference ;)
Jan 19 11:47:35 <xkr47> but the win might be cheaper since it's produced in bigger volume
Jan 19 11:49:35 <buz> or because ms pays people to use their crap
Jan 19 11:51:26 <xkr47> but we must thank microsoft for infusing so much anger in users of their software that then gets into good use in proving linux is better :)
Jan 19 11:51:45 <xkr47> ;)
Jan 19 11:55:37 <goraxe> if its cheaper theres precendent for getting a refund on bundled ms licenses (as long as you don't use the software), so if possible to grab an openmoko image and reflash the internal mem, could buy the win ver for cost savings
Jan 19 11:56:57 <XorA> AFAIK WinCE licensing doesnt allow that
Jan 19 11:57:06 <goraxe> no?
Jan 19 11:57:26 <goraxe> i license you cannot explictly opt out of, thats pretty harsh
Jan 19 11:57:29 <XorA> you dont pay for it, the manufacturer pays a royalty to use WinCE
Jan 19 11:57:37 <goraxe> urgh
Jan 19 11:58:20 <goraxe> hmm so theres no EULA for WinCE?
Jan 19 11:58:51 <XorA> dont remember one on my phone
Jan 19 11:59:13 <xkr47> maybe you have to accept it when you first use it, dunno
Jan 19 11:59:51 <XorA> as the license fee is already paid, it doesnt really need one
Jan 19 12:29:43 <buz> mhh the license fee for XP is already paid when you agree to the EULA...
Jan 19 12:30:36 <XorA> buz: for WinCE you are not the customer, the OEM is
Jan 19 12:30:55 <buz> still dont see the difference to XP
Jan 19 12:31:23 <XorA> WinCE doesnt come on a nice shiny cd-rom you just install from, it has to be adapted in the same way as linux to the hardware target
Jan 19 12:31:44 <buz> same for XP, only it comes pre adapter
Jan 19 12:31:51 <buz> s/r/d
Jan 19 12:32:11 <XorA> buz: I suggest you actually buy WinXP before commenting as your talking crap
Jan 19 12:32:44 <buz> if the OEM pays MS, HE is the customer
Jan 19 12:32:55 <buz> so if a i buy a machine with XP  preinstalled, i'm not MS customer
Jan 19 12:33:08 <xkr47> windows talks crap without buying linux, so why can't we :)
Jan 19 12:33:21 <xkr47> or microsoft
Jan 19 12:33:48 <xkr47> .. because we're better than they..
Jan 19 12:35:31 <aevin> still in absence of any announcement, why not do some more speculatin and guesstimation of what we'll hear?
Jan 19 12:36:10 <xkr47> FUD++
Jan 19 12:36:28 <aevin> info about the "2007 roadmap" may not be _that_ much of a information blast.
Jan 19 12:37:15 <aevin> perhas an estimated release date for v2 (would they do that? it could slow down the sales of v1, if people will rather wait, i don't know...)
Jan 19 12:38:32 <buz> well if they can sell everything they can produce in china, they wouldnt care
Jan 19 12:39:12 <buz> and supposedly there's a standing order from china so...
Jan 19 12:39:50 <aevin> okay.
Jan 19 12:39:51 <xkr47> I guess they ask 10* the price for mokos ;)
Jan 19 12:40:05 <xkr47> I couldn't care, I'll gladly support such a movement
Jan 19 12:40:45 <xkr47> I guess the china order is late also
Jan 19 12:41:14 <buz> looking at supposed iphone cost
Jan 19 12:41:26 <buz> the neo is very likely below 200$ to make
Jan 19 12:42:46 <seaLne> but there are development etc costs on top of that, so its not all profit
Jan 19 12:43:19 <aevin> buz: yeah, you read that BOM analysis estimating a 50 % margin for apple? and that's for the price when you get a 2-year operator plan. (this would normally reduce the price, wouldnt it?).
Jan 19 12:44:30 <aevin> seaLne: I didn't read it all. yes, they'll have dev costs and don't forget: i'll bet they'll ship in shiny, glossy boxes to make them extra expensive.
Jan 19 12:45:02 <seaLne> its still interesting though
Jan 19 12:45:05 <aevin> anyways, the iphone isn't that relevant to neo1973 and the idea of openmoko.
Jan 19 12:45:44 <aevin> you can compare hardware and price, but what is the price of software freedom?
Jan 19 12:46:01 <aevin> price/value
Jan 19 12:46:32 <seaLne> is this a mastercard advert?
Jan 19 12:46:32 <xkr47> I sure hope that openmoko gives some money to FIC
Jan 19 12:46:40 <xkr47> so they continue developing
Jan 19 12:48:12 <aevin> seaLne:  ;-)
Jan 19 12:49:44 <koen> I wonder if we should order the phone from fic or openmoko
Jan 19 12:49:51 <koen> now that they spun-off
Jan 19 12:49:58 <xkr47> woot ?
Jan 19 12:50:06 <xkr47> url to press release ?-)
Jan 19 12:50:14 <Tv> spun off?
Jan 19 12:50:19 <TRIsoft> ??
Jan 19 12:50:25 <koen> old news
Jan 19 12:50:32 <koen> openmoko spun off weeks ago
Jan 19 12:50:36 <xorAxAx> ?
Jan 19 12:50:45 <Tv> what is openmoko, then?
Jan 19 12:50:57 <Tv> a company, a non-profit, a loose group of hackers?
Jan 19 12:50:57 <koen> a company :)
Jan 19 12:51:20 <xkr47> so they order their phones from FIC ?
Jan 19 12:51:22 <Tv> is openmoko a sister of FIC?
Jan 19 12:51:30 <aevin> koen: a taiwan registered one?
Jan 19 12:51:41 <Tv> did FIC split out a risky experimental company from the more conservative main one?
Jan 19 12:51:42 <edwardocallaghan> Is this what's really happened ?
Jan 19 12:51:46 <xkr47> seems like it was koen that dropped the bomb and not mickeyl :)
Jan 19 12:52:02 <xorAxAx> koen: URL?
Jan 19 12:52:32 <edwardocallaghan> If so you can forget about this for or version2
Jan 19 12:53:30 <xkr47> for or ?
Jan 19 12:53:59 <aevin> openmoko is suppose to facilitate other phone manufacturers (in addition to FIC) with the open source phone idea, right? the other manufacturers is just not as bold as FIC, and probably need to see how successful it'll work out first... ?
Jan 19 12:55:31 <aevin> or have I misunderstood the role of openmoko?
Jan 19 12:57:30 <noidd> hmmm
Jan 19 12:57:35 <noidd> announcement yet?
Jan 19 12:57:42 <xkr47> noidd, no, just koen's
Jan 19 12:57:48 <xkr47> ;)
Jan 19 12:58:00 <noidd> which is...
Jan 19 12:58:07 * mickeyl slightly nods to aevin, but can't say any more
Jan 19 12:58:46 * xkr47 gives mickeyl some tea and some bread
Jan 19 12:58:48 <Tv> hah
Jan 19 12:59:03 <noidd> man, soldering gets monotonous after a while
Jan 19 12:59:05 * mickeyl brews coffee -- trying to wake up
Jan 19 12:59:15 <noidd> This must be joint #1000 by now
Jan 19 12:59:19 <xkr47> mickeyl, take your time :)
Jan 19 12:59:30 <mickeyl> noidd: hats off to you, i can't even manage to solder a steel log
Jan 19 13:00:57 * aevin has parkinson's when he tries to solder.
Jan 19 13:01:37 <aevin> parkinsson's light
Jan 19 13:01:38 <xkr47> don't we all
Jan 19 13:01:40 <noidd> mickeyl: thin bit, flux solder, temperature controlled soldering ircon
Jan 19 13:01:52 <noidd> with the right tools its hard to make a mistake
Jan 19 13:02:05 <xkr47> noidd, what you solderin ?
Jan 19 13:02:07 <noidd> unless you have parkinsons  or cerebal palsey
Jan 19 13:02:18 <noidd> I'm just finishing up my www.midibox.org
Jan 19 13:02:55 <mickeyl> noidd: cool. which version are you building?
Jan 19 13:03:03 <noidd> my own
Jan 19 13:03:10 <noidd> ie - my own hardware I should say
Jan 19 13:03:15 <mickeyl> nice
Jan 19 13:03:19 <mickeyl> hmm
Jan 19 13:03:19 <noidd> latest firmware
Jan 19 13:03:32 <noidd> probably 32 digital in, 64 analogue
Jan 19 13:03:33 <mickeyl> i'd really like someone to look into controlling a MIDI usb interface from the neo
Jan 19 13:03:53 <noidd> I use midi for signalling in my local theatre
Jan 19 13:04:01 <xkr47> well there are midi-usb already..
Jan 19 13:04:03 <noidd> its a not-for-profit place I volenteer for
Jan 19 13:04:06 <xkr47> +devices
Jan 19 13:04:26 <noidd> mickeyl: there should be countless kernel drivers already
Jan 19 13:04:37 <mickeyl> isn't the problem that only few are really supported ?
Jan 19 13:04:41 <noidd> or are you thinking someone should build an application
Jan 19 13:04:46 <mickeyl> i mean there is nothing like usb storage for midi
Jan 19 13:05:13 <mickeyl> (standardized low level protocol)
Jan 19 13:05:15 <noidd> mickeyl: random question - the screenies on the openmoko website - is that themery possible only because of the additional Gtk classes you created?
Jan 19 13:05:58 <noidd> mickeyl: re standard protocol - that's criminal since midi has been a standard for years and years
Jan 19 13:05:58 <aloril> my guesses about announcement based on mailing list and irc:
Jan 19 13:06:16 <aloril> v2: roughly when and that it contains wifi, 3G, keyboard
Jan 19 13:06:22 <noidd> aloril: we should have a sweepstake on the contents of the announcement
Jan 19 13:06:24 <aloril> content of hackers lunchbox
Jan 19 13:06:40 <mickeyl> noidd: first, i really would like marketing to stop rendered screenshots ... the final theme is not finished, but it won't look that much different. i had tons of problems with gtk+ theming, basically took me a month to implement our theme and we are not even finished. long story short, yes, some things are not possible without adding own classes
Jan 19 13:06:45 <noidd> mickeyl is excluded from the betting but is of course welcome to give us his "guess" :-)
Jan 19 13:06:54 <aloril> when openmoko will be available (software that runs in neo1973, dunno about phone itself)
Jan 19 13:07:33 * noidd confesses that Perl will be his first port
Jan 19 13:07:43 <noidd> followed by Gtk2.pm
Jan 19 13:07:43 <noidd> :-D
Jan 19 13:07:43 <aloril> v2: when: maybe 2007 Q4
Jan 19 13:07:45 <mickeyl> aloril: i guess the announcement (later today) will answer some of your questions
Jan 19 13:08:01 * mickeyl won't make any comments on v2 and is pretty sure the announcement won't cover it
Jan 19 13:08:01 * noidd is lazy.  C is so verbose.  Too much like hard work most of the time
Jan 19 13:08:11 <edwardocallaghan> Guys, I am selling everything so if you would like to pickup some good deal head over to http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220073498080
Jan 19 13:08:11 <aloril> mickeyl: cool
Jan 19 13:08:30 * xkr47 is on perl also ;)
Jan 19 13:08:38 <noidd> mickeyl: Honestly, all I want is the bugzilla / wiki open and a date for order
Jan 19 13:08:52 <noidd> being in the dark is a little frustrating sometimes.
Jan 19 13:08:52 <mickeyl> noidd: that you will get in a couple of hours
Jan 19 13:09:12 <noidd> Rock on.  Thanks :-)
Jan 19 13:09:13 <mickeyl> *nod* i'm really pushing marketing for this today announcement
Jan 19 13:09:13 <noidd> man, I should ask more often - haha
Jan 19 13:09:18 <mickeyl> hehe
Jan 19 13:09:34 <yacc> noidd: Well, python is I think already included in OE?
Jan 19 13:09:34 <xkr47> mickeyl, one thing that has been open for me is.. unless I can prove I have been developing linux openembedded stuff, do I have any chance on getting a openmoko at the date that you are about to announce?
Jan 19 13:09:38 <noidd> does your marketting department "Get It" tho, that is the question
Jan 19 13:09:44 <noidd> obviously Sean does
Jan 19 13:10:07 <xkr47> mickeyl, or will it be available for everybody now?
Jan 19 13:10:07 <aloril> hmm.. I wonder if it will answer this question: will it contain scripting language out of box? (or maybe this is one of things that will be added by us: python support to manipulate stuff for example)
Jan 19 13:10:10 <noidd> yacc: when I believe whitespace should be a part of syntax I'll use python :-D
Jan 19 13:10:28 <noidd> yacc: and when I want to be able to execute line-noise i'll use perl :-P
Jan 19 13:10:33 <mickeyl> xkr47: this will be covered by the announcement. i'm not supposed to disclose it earlier, sorry
Jan 19 13:10:44 <xkr47> mickeyl, that's all I wanted to know, thanks!
Jan 19 13:10:46 <yacc> noidd: that's not fair, I wanted to quip about line-noise ;)
Jan 19 13:10:56 <yacc> mickeyl: When will it be?
Jan 19 13:10:59 <noidd> all languages have their peculiarities
Jan 19 13:11:03 <edwardocallaghan> I hope you guys get this out the door soon, you don't want iPhone to take it all :p
Jan 19 13:11:04 <noidd> I'm not a zelot
Jan 19 13:11:06 * XorA chuckles
Jan 19 13:11:08 <yacc> I mean in some parts of Asia it's already Saturday I'd say.
Jan 19 13:11:21 <noidd> I'm kinda biased towards Perl because I built its cross-compilation buildsystem
Jan 19 13:11:28 <noidd> because of OpenZaurus in fact
Jan 19 13:11:29 <yacc> noidd: yeah, I use and fix perl scripts too ;)
Jan 19 13:11:29 <XorA> its like rabid dogs around a good steak joint here today
Jan 19 13:11:50 <mickeyl> yacc: last I heard guys are writing the draft, then sending it to us for review, then we'll review, then it goes back, then it gets posted. guess that'll take a bunch of hours.
Jan 19 13:11:54 <xkr47> noidd, all glory to you!
Jan 19 13:12:05 <noidd> and I did the 4 hour training / lectures on Gtk programming in perl for YAPC::Europe for a few years.
Jan 19 13:12:21 <noidd> xkr47: No, not really.  I let it slide and someone else took it up.
Jan 19 13:12:32 <noidd> so actually, I suck[tm]
Jan 19 13:12:52 <edwardocallaghan> mickeyl:What sync software will come with the phone ?
Jan 19 13:13:03 <edwardocallaghan> Or am I making my own ?
Jan 19 13:13:17 * xkr47 wonders if irssi can hilight the channel on topic changes ;)
Jan 19 13:13:27 * noidd registers the domain arm-cpan.org
Jan 19 13:13:29 <noidd> haha
Jan 19 13:13:29 <mickeyl> no iday, PIM is not exactly my strength  ;)
Jan 19 13:13:35 <mickeyl> heh
Jan 19 13:13:37 <yacc> mickeyl: just wondering, who are you? *g*
Jan 19 13:13:56 <xkr47> he's our hero!
Jan 19 13:13:57 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 13:13:58 <mickeyl> i'm just a random guy being hired by OpenMoko to be their lead application framework architect
Jan 19 13:14:01 <mickeyl> nothing more
Jan 19 13:14:04 <mickeyl> nothing less ;)
Jan 19 13:14:22 <xkr47> mickeyl, well to this little channel over here, you're a lot more :)
Jan 19 13:14:24 <mickeyl> seriously, initially i just was supposed to cover OE
Jan 19 13:14:30 <mickeyl> :)
Jan 19 13:14:38 <noidd> mickely: have you submitted your Gtk patches upstream yet?
Jan 19 13:14:51 <xkr47> mickeyl, hope you aren't overswamped with stuff and get a burnout :P
Jan 19 13:14:56 <parag0n> outlook express? ;)
Jan 19 13:14:56 <mickeyl> noidd: went all the way without a single patch yet. 
Jan 19 13:15:04 <mickeyl> the final version may need some
Jan 19 13:15:08 * xkr47 slaps parag0n for 100 points of damage
Jan 19 13:15:09 <mickeyl> which i will instantaneously will submit upstream
Jan 19 13:15:19 <aloril> ok, so my v2 speculation based on this is not covered: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001154.html
Jan 19 13:15:24 <mickeyl> ~spell instantaneously
Jan 19 13:15:26 <apt> 'instantaneously' may be spelled correctly
Jan 19 13:15:40 * xkr47 is very pleased with the "it just works" things that he hears
Jan 19 13:16:02 <edwardocallaghan> parag0n: sed /outlook express/L@@Kout ! express/
Jan 19 13:16:08 <xkr47> although the themes weren't that straightforward :P
Jan 19 13:16:13 <noidd> I'm surprised you didn't need to patch the header files to inform the system of your new classes
Jan 19 13:16:16 <edwardocallaghan> ^s/ :p
Jan 19 13:16:25 <noidd> but thinking about it, the buildsystem probably does that automatically.
Jan 19 13:16:38 <yacc> What were the platform one needs to build OE for to be compatible with the Neo?
Jan 19 13:16:57 <noidd> the only reason that I'm asking about the upstream is cos I want to see it - heh.
Jan 19 13:17:03 <daxxar> Any pricing information available?
Jan 19 13:17:10 <XorA> openmoko did the unbeleiveable and got mickeyl coding gtk+ :-)
Jan 19 13:17:27 <mickeyl> heh, no kidding. that was a tough thing for me
Jan 19 13:17:37 <noidd> $350 is on the website.
Jan 19 13:17:42 <mickeyl> if i wasn't convinced by the project I wouldn't have joined. I really love Qt
Jan 19 13:17:47 <XorA> now he has to go to Qt rehab once a week
Jan 19 13:17:51 <mickeyl> hehe
Jan 19 13:17:59 <parag0n> any rumblings on what time the roadmap will be out yet?
Jan 19 13:18:12 <daxxar> Where on the page, noidd? :)
Jan 19 13:18:26 <noidd> I saw you talk about how you didn't like the way that Gtk does its object -> child parenting on your blog.
Jan 19 13:18:34 <noidd> ironically that's why I prefer it to QT
Jan 19 13:18:35 <Tv> parag0n: plural hours
Jan 19 13:18:41 <noidd> horses, courses etc
Jan 19 13:18:48 <mickeyl> yacc: MACHINE = "smdk2440" should be kind of compatible
Jan 19 13:18:55 <mickeyl> basically, arum920t
Jan 19 13:18:59 <aloril> parag0n: 2007-01-19 15:42:01 <mickeyl>   yacc: last I heard guys are writing the draft, then sending it to us for review, then we'll review, then it goes back, then it gets posted. guess that'll take a bunch of hours.
Jan 19 13:19:00 <mickeyl> arm920t, even
Jan 19 13:19:10 <aloril> (some minutes ago)
Jan 19 13:19:12 <Tv> mailing list said:
Jan 19 13:19:13 <Tv> Follow the instructions on http://openembedded.org, MACHINE=ep93xx, DISTRO=generic should
Jan 19 13:19:13 <Tv> build compatible binaries.
Jan 19 13:19:16 <noidd> daxxar:  sec
Jan 19 13:19:23 <parag0n> i suppose i can sleep then :D
Jan 19 13:20:06 <noidd> heh, www.openmoko.com is non-responsive
Jan 19 13:20:06 <mickeyl> ya, ep93xx is arm920t as well
Jan 19 13:20:14 <yacc> Tv: thx, was unsure where I've read it (irc or mail).
Jan 19 13:20:22 <mickeyl> noidd: works fine from here
Jan 19 13:20:46 <noidd> ah, there she is
Jan 19 13:20:53 <aloril> btw.. I'm curious: how many of you: a) already have neo b) plan to buy one (as soon as possible) c) just interested but don't intend to buy one
Jan 19 13:21:02 <aloril> <-- b)
Jan 19 13:21:20 <daxxar> is it possible to have it
Jan 19 13:21:33 <noidd> daxxar: I can't find it.  google for any news article and you'll find a reference to the price
Jan 19 13:21:39 <daxxar> ok
Jan 19 13:21:45 <ozamosi> aloril: b
Jan 19 13:21:52 <noidd> alroil: b
Jan 19 13:21:57 <CM> aloril: b
Jan 19 13:22:01 <daxxar> aloril: I was under the impression that it wasn't out yet?
Jan 19 13:22:04 <daxxar> aloril: b
Jan 19 13:22:06 <XorA> aline: b
Jan 19 13:22:08 <aloril> daxxar: not yet available, but some developers have it
Jan 19 13:22:11 <daxxar> ok
Jan 19 13:22:12 <XorA> aloril: b
Jan 19 13:22:16 <mickeyl> 350 USD is written in all announcements
Jan 19 13:22:38 <noidd> mickeyl: are you still working on maze of protoboards ?
Jan 19 13:22:46 <daxxar> mk
Jan 19 13:22:50 <edwardocallaghan> I got to go, take care guys
Jan 19 13:23:07 <aloril> daxxar: some developers with existing track record of doing embedded stuff have had various versions of hardware some months (working on it of course)
Jan 19 13:23:15 <ozamosi> I wonder if "REALLY want it!" is a good enough reason to get one of the earlier developer-only ones :)
Jan 19 13:23:15 <XorA> yacc: smdk2440 is my baby, so if you find problems let me know
Jan 19 13:23:38 <mickeyl> noidd: still proto, however much closer to production than a coupe of weeks ago. almost everything working
Jan 19 13:23:44 <koen> isn't the 2440 armv5?
Jan 19 13:23:54 <XorA> koen: nope
Jan 19 13:24:06 <XorA> arm920t linke the s3c2410
Jan 19 13:24:14 <koen> ah
Jan 19 13:24:24 <koen> must be confused with the 24a0 I guess
Jan 19 13:24:26 <XorA> 2413 is arm926ejs
Jan 19 13:24:37 <aloril> hmm.. so far 100% either have it or plan to get it
Jan 19 13:25:30 <mickeyl> the actual demand for an open phone is unbelievable (among small businesses and single developers). i guess a lot of them just will yank the firmware and do their own thing
Jan 19 13:25:47 <koen> fscking cloners
Jan 19 13:25:52 <noidd> cool
Jan 19 13:26:04 <xkr47> aloril, b
Jan 19 13:26:16 <XorA> whats the bets there is a CackoMoko ROM ripped from sl-5500 :-)
Jan 19 13:26:24 <mickeyl> which is perfectly ok, that's what it's for. on the other hand I hope eventually we may improve OpenMoko framework to be some kind of common demoninator -- together with parts of Maemo and ALP.
Jan 19 13:26:26 <daxxar> Rather have someone develop their own software and resell it, than like with the HTC. (Same firmware with *minor* modifications)
Jan 19 13:26:41 <buz> i wonder if som chinese odm will manutfacture neo clones
Jan 19 13:26:47 <aloril> a:3, b:7
Jan 19 13:27:14 <mickeyl> buz: heh, that'd be pretty pointless -- they can't make it cheaper than FIC
Jan 19 13:27:21 <buz> sure they can
Jan 19 13:27:30 <buz> they dont need to pay any developers
Jan 19 13:27:37 <buz> just the odd engineer
Jan 19 13:27:53 <XorA> buz: mickeyl is the odd engineer :-D
Jan 19 13:27:53 <buz> or outright steal the whole design
Jan 19 13:28:08 <buz> by engineer i meant people designing pcb and such
Jan 19 13:28:13 <aloril> hmm.. hardware != software
Jan 19 13:28:24 <parag0n> mickeyl, dont you have to go through all sorts of certifications to sell them to people in the UK / US?
Jan 19 13:28:32 <parag0n> (the hardware, that is)
Jan 19 13:28:35 <aloril> stealing hardware design is not same as stealing software design
Jan 19 13:28:49 <aloril> openmoko == stealing software design is recommended
Jan 19 13:28:52 <mickeyl> parag0n: i don't think so, 'cause most parts are precertified, but honestly, i have no idea about those issued
Jan 19 13:28:56 <mickeyl> issues, even
Jan 19 13:28:56 <aloril> (not really stealing ;-)
Jan 19 13:29:07 <buz> yes, and stealing hardware designs, well chinese do it all the time
Jan 19 13:29:08 <noidd> UL for the psu and GSM module already built
Jan 19 13:29:21 <buz> (at times they even improve them while they are at it ;)
Jan 19 13:29:22 <XorA> It will require CE testing for the EU of course, but thats pretty basic if all the components are already tested
Jan 19 13:29:32 <ozamosi> buz: if they create a phone that is as good as - or even better - than the neo1973, based on the same software, that sounds like a good thing. I think OpenMoko has stated that they will make money from extra services, so that should work with any clones as well.
Jan 19 13:29:58 <buz> well allowing people to do clones is not entirely the same as hepling them to do it ;)
Jan 19 13:30:23 <Tv> if your business model is threatened by companies imitating you, you have a bad business model ;)
Jan 19 13:30:51 <Tv> (the only real acceptable excuse is "but we have one year lead on them")
Jan 19 13:30:55 <parag0n> its just interesting that apple are having to wait 6 months to get theirs FCC certified, yet FIC can ship in like 6 - 8 weeks 
Jan 19 13:30:58 <Tv> (and even them, they might be better funded than you)
Jan 19 13:31:22 <Tv> parag0n: or apple says it needs to wait, while it still hasn't completed development..
Jan 19 13:31:33 <parag0n> woudn't surprise me
Jan 19 13:31:55 <Tv> "Our FCC certification won't complete until Q4" is true in both cases ;)
Jan 19 13:34:01 <robtaylor> mickeyl: hey, you havn't replied to my reply about devmand yet ;)
Jan 19 13:35:55 <mickeyl> robtaylor: yeah, sorry about that. devmand work has been postponed a couple of weeks, so i didn't have a chance to evaluate hal, gnome power manager, and micro hal
Jan 19 13:36:10 <mickeyl> and alsa-bluetooth, they also have a proposal
Jan 19 13:36:44 <robtaylor> mickeyl: oh, cool. we need to get a whole group of us around on this one. How about a devroom chat at fosdem?
Jan 19 13:36:53 <koen> robtaylor, mickeyl: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001530.html
Jan 19 13:37:11 <mickeyl> robtaylor: yes, that'd be nice.
Jan 19 13:37:52 <mickeyl> koen: read pulseaudio slides as well today. looking really appealing for audio subsystem. 
Jan 19 13:37:55 <mickeyl> so many things to evaluate
Jan 19 13:37:57 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Jan 19 13:38:05 <hyakuhei> I think I'm gonna have to get the new rizr and an openmoko, so I still have something to use whilst I break my O< :-D
Jan 19 13:38:16 <parag0n> hey hyakuhei 
Jan 19 13:38:30 <robtaylor> koen: interestingly if you have mjg59's hal bluetooth addon, you don't need anything special in pulseaudio for bluetooth
Jan 19 13:38:32 <hyakuhei> mickeyl: all these things to evaluate, isn't that a big plus?
Jan 19 13:38:43 <hyakuhei> hey parag0n 
Jan 19 13:39:05 <parag0n> http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas/SilentHangup <-- anyone know if this will be possible to do with the neo1973?
Jan 19 13:39:30 <mickeyl> on one hand, yes, on the other hand, it means a lot of work + time gets spent without getting any code done. Being now in the position of having deadlineds, I can understand why some projects keep reinventing.
Jan 19 13:39:33 <robtaylor> mickeyl: well hal and gpm both have the benefit that they actually exist ;)
Jan 19 13:40:07 <hyakuhei> hah, robtaylor has a point there
Jan 19 13:40:35 <mickeyl> parag0n: absolutely. i don't see any technical problems in that. "just" needs to be implemented
Jan 19 13:40:39 <mickeyl> :)
Jan 19 13:40:39 <xkr47> mickeyl, there was one issue with pulseaudio.. if the samplerate is not the expected one, it uses libsamplerate to convert.. which is cpu-heavy
Jan 19 13:40:41 <robtaylor> mickeyl: if you ever want a hand figuring out functionailty, what bits fit together, what th downsides are for embedded, give me a shout
Jan 19 13:40:53 <mickeyl> robtaylor: will do, thanks
Jan 19 13:40:55 <hyakuhei> parag0n: I hope so, thats a basic feature that even my phones do
Jan 19 13:41:02 <robtaylor> mickeyl: as you probably guessed, i've been doing quite a bit of that myself already :)
Jan 19 13:41:04 <koen> xkr47: see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001530.html
Jan 19 13:41:38 <parag0n> hyakuhei, really? i've never seen it on a phone i've played with
Jan 19 13:42:01 <robtaylor> koen: wasn't libsamplerate origininally a fork of a fixed-point impl? can we pursade themto have a configure option for that?
Jan 19 13:42:21 <xkr47> koen, yeah I read that and that's why I spoke out :)
Jan 19 13:42:51 <xkr47> but I mean I'd probably be ok with "nearest_sample" instead of floating-point interpolation
Jan 19 13:42:54 <hyakuhei> parag0n: All sony erricsons since the k750i (maybe earlier), when the phone rings, just press the volume button on the side, ringer goes silent but technically still rings
Jan 19 13:43:02 <XorA> robtaylor: if you are running at 48KHz then oversampling lower freq's is easy and doesnt need float
Jan 19 13:43:03 <koen> robtaylor: the libsamplerate dude is on my shitlist after getting too much hatemail from him about how he thinks a release manager should do releases
Jan 19 13:43:36 <xkr47> so maybe libsamplerate could be exchanged for some less-precise light-cpu..
Jan 19 13:43:51 <parag0n> hmm, neat
Jan 19 13:44:02 <parag0n> still, i want it on the neo ;)
Jan 19 13:44:17 <xkr47> lol
Jan 19 13:44:24 <hrw|work> hyakuhei: many phones has 'turn off sound of ring' feature
Jan 19 13:44:39 <hyakuhei> hrw|work: yes, thats my point
Jan 19 13:44:39 <robtaylor> koen: resample: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/resample/resample-1.8.1.tar.gz
Jan 19 13:44:40 <hrw|work> iirc even my 4 years old nokia 6310i had it
Jan 19 13:44:46 <parag0n> i'd like it to re-lock the screen so i can stick it back in my pocket
Jan 19 13:44:47 <xkr47> robtaylor, is that integer-based ?
Jan 19 13:44:50 <Sencer> hyakuhei: all sonericsson and before that the ericsson phones would "keep ringing" silently if you pressed "C"
Jan 19 13:44:54 <XorA> my HTC wizard has an Out Of Memory hangup mode :-)
Jan 19 13:44:57 <robtaylor> xkr47: i think so
Jan 19 13:45:06 <robtaylor> and LGPL too 
Jan 19 13:45:09 <koen> robtaylor: if we can convince lennart to use that....
Jan 19 13:45:19 <xkr47> koen, lennart == pulseaudio guy ?
Jan 19 13:45:24 <koen> xkr47: yes
Jan 19 13:45:38 <robtaylor> koen: i think you'd probably have a chance, if someone writes a patch
Jan 19 13:45:41 <hyakuhei> Either way, I found throwing my phone either at a wall or down a toilet to provide a perfectly adequate alternative
Jan 19 13:46:07 <robtaylor> koen: at least with a configure time option
Jan 19 13:46:14 <xkr47> I guess it would be nice for pulseaudio to support resampling in integer math, since it seems to be deployed a lot in non-desktop environments
Jan 19 13:46:39 * xkr47 could help out with the patch if wanted
Jan 19 13:47:27 * robtaylor notes that resample's autofoo and library versioning could do with an overhaul
Jan 19 13:47:55 <noidd> there is something fundimentally wrong with an "Out of memory" hangup 
Jan 19 13:48:02 <xkr47> koen, just ping if you want me to look at swapping out libsamplerate for somethign else
Jan 19 13:48:28 <koen> xkr47: ping :)
Jan 19 13:48:39 <xkr47> pong!
Jan 19 13:48:52 <XorA> noidd: thats windows mobile for you, but no-one can phone me because there isnt enough memory to launch the phone application
Jan 19 13:49:41 * xkr47 induces himself with false hope that this gets him into the "has worked with embedded linux" group of guys ;-)
Jan 19 13:49:57 <leventhal> My hiptop does worse. It hangs and doesn't give me an error sometimes. Then two hours later I notice it's frozen, I reset it and notice I have ten angry voicemails.
Jan 19 13:50:14 <daxxar> I love how my last Windows Mobile firmware had random crashes of the phone module. The interface looked all goody (good GSM signal, etc) - no errors - but anyone trying to call me got an error as if it was off, and any SMS was delayed.
Jan 19 13:50:17 <XorA> leventhal: from the wife :-)
Jan 19 13:50:18 <daxxar> Only way to fix it was reboot. :P
Jan 19 13:50:44 <xkr47> I actually installed pulseaudio yesterday at my home computer with an idea I could play music from my phone through my pc speakers and the other way around
Jan 19 13:50:55 <xkr47> my upcoming moko phone*
Jan 19 13:51:01 <leventhal> Haha.. that's a cool idea
Jan 19 13:51:10 <aloril> parag0n: I think so, at least you could press button in phone that makes it diverted to in phone voicemail
Jan 19 13:51:33 <robtaylor> xkr47: http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/ i think is the homepage of the writer of resample
Jan 19 13:51:38 <xkr47> and why not play music from my pc to the guy I'm chatting on the phone with :)
Jan 19 13:52:03 <xkr47> robtaylor, yeah.. I'll look into that this evening (i.e. starting sometimes around 4-8 hours from now)
Jan 19 13:52:15 <robtaylor> xkr47: i think it might need some api love
Jan 19 13:52:15 <CM> robtaylor: Heh, fancy name " Julius Orion Smith III "
Jan 19 13:52:25 <xkr47> robtaylor, api love ?-)
Jan 19 13:52:34 <xkr47> CM, :)
Jan 19 13:52:34 <robtaylor> CM: yeah, very american name..
Jan 19 13:52:46 <xkr47> Gtk+ II
Jan 19 13:53:11 <robtaylor> xkr47: well mostof it is a commandline util for resampling. some of that might need to be put out into a libarary with an api
Jan 19 13:53:37 <robtaylor> xkr47: and the libsnd might not be needed. Mind you i've only had a quick skim over
Jan 19 13:53:42 <xkr47> mickeyl, is it out of "to have prior work to display" that openmoko stuff is not being revealed until release ?
Jan 19 13:53:55 <robtaylor> it also could do with a cvs/svn/git/bla...
Jan 19 13:53:55 <xkr47> (i.e. to avoid others taking the ideas and getting patents)
Jan 19 13:53:56 <aloril> parag0n: well.. I guess that needs to be coded, might not be in it out of box (in phone voicemail)
Jan 19 13:55:05 <aloril> parag0n: I imagine it would work like this: phone 'answers', but instead of voice coming from mic voice comes from file (press 1 to leave voicemail press 2 to hangup)
Jan 19 13:55:19 <xkr47> robtaylor, well if I could make it provide an implementation of the libsamplerate api... lennart would surely like that :)
Jan 19 13:55:25 <aloril> and if voicemail program detects 1 being pressed start recording until other side hangs up
Jan 19 13:55:31 <robtaylor> xkr47: that would be the most effective, yep :)
Jan 19 13:55:54 <xkr47> I wouldn't have to provide any docs either.. ;---)
Jan 19 13:56:04 <xkr47> "the specs are there, just do it"
Jan 19 13:56:42 <robtaylor> xkr47: well, jsut don't copy anything straight from libsamplerate, as its GPL, not LGPL
Jan 19 13:56:48 <mickeyl> xkr47: no. in fact the only reason why the stuff isn't out yet, is because of the state. it's just not ready yet. in fact if it was me, I'd like to have it closed for some 3 or 4 more months to polish it, but I'm a minority here. that's why it will be opened up very soon
Jan 19 13:57:12 <mickeyl> "release early, release often"
Jan 19 13:57:19 <robtaylor> mickeyl: nothing wrong with polishing in public.. look at Nokia.. ;)
Jan 19 13:57:20 <mickeyl> but not too early ;)
Jan 19 13:57:39 <xkr47> mickeyl, you don't like releasing unpolished stuff out of professional pride or ?
Jan 19 13:58:02 <mickeyl> i think that's the major issue for me personally, yes
Jan 19 13:58:05 <mickeyl> but don't worry
Jan 19 13:58:11 <mickeyl> i don't have the last say here :)
Jan 19 13:58:12 <xkr47> robtaylor, resample isn't ?
Jan 19 13:58:23 <koen> you don't get a second chance for a first impression
Jan 19 13:58:28 <robtaylor> xkr47: resample is LGPL, it'd be good to keep it that way :)
Jan 19 13:58:38 <xkr47> mickeyl, I'm a polisher myself and work at a place where I have little say so.. I know :)
Jan 19 13:58:45 <ozamosi> mickeyl: if the hardware actually works, the rest can be updated later.
Jan 19 13:59:00 <xkr47> mickeyl, but I have also learned that sometimes early releases find bugs faster..
Jan 19 13:59:19 <robtaylor> when it comes to open source, you shouldn't let it not being finished hold you back from a release
Jan 19 13:59:24 <mickeyl> ozamosi: i agree. it's just that i'm a bit frightened about the press grabbing the source and flaming about its state.
Jan 19 13:59:25 <xkr47> "ozamosi: I just wanna see it identify my bluetooth headset, that's all !!"
Jan 19 13:59:28 <ozamosi> Of course, it'd result in loads of bad press, though :(
Jan 19 13:59:42 <robtaylor> use major version changes to say when things are ready for public consumption
Jan 19 13:59:42 <CM> mickeyl: I'm used to the rule "If it compiles, ship it"
Jan 19 13:59:46 <xkr47> s/ozamosi:/<ozamosi>/
Jan 19 13:59:47 <apt> xkr47 meant: "<ozamosi> I just wanna see it identify my bluetooth headset, that's all !!"
Jan 19 13:59:48 <robtaylor> but other hackers don't care if its polished
Jan 19 13:59:57 * CM is a cynical consultant
Jan 19 13:59:58 <xkr47> apt, nice sedding there! :DDD
Jan 19 13:59:59 <hyakuhei> Just do a google and tag everything with *beta* - sigh
Jan 19 14:00:00 * apt lowers sedding there! :DDD's priority
Jan 19 14:01:05 <robtaylor> mickeyl: i think you think the press is more capable than it is ;)
Jan 19 14:01:25 <aloril> yeah, I see lame reviews already "it doesn't do this or that or ...", so yeah probably good idea to say its developer release only even if its available for anybody with money
Jan 19 14:02:17 <aloril> hehe, yeah "Warning, this is not even beta version yet" ;-)
Jan 19 14:02:25 <mickeyl> *nod*
Jan 19 14:02:40 <ozamosi> I want it NOW personally, but, as others say, claiming that it is "ready" before it kicks ass would probably be bad.
Jan 19 14:02:59 <xkr47> good luck mickeyl with getting it to sound right!
Jan 19 14:03:09 <koen> releasing the source before the hardware could get you a few nice bugfixes
Jan 19 14:03:25 <xkr47> good point..
Jan 19 14:03:36 <koen> mickeyl: how's tosamoko doing?
Jan 19 14:03:37 <ozamosi> koen: agred!
Jan 19 14:03:49 <aloril> as long as I can do this: "basic calling works (with basic address book), ssh works, sms works, umm..." I want one
Jan 19 14:04:10 <xkr47> "I just want to hold it in my arms"
Jan 19 14:04:25 <aloril> s/as I can/as it can/
Jan 19 14:04:25 <apt> aloril meant: as long as it can do this: "basic calling works (with basic address book), ssh works, sms works, umm..." I want one
Jan 19 14:04:46 <xkr47> s/"/""
Jan 19 14:05:08 <xkr47> somebody should add support to apt to accept sed expressions with the ending slash
Jan 19 14:05:12 <xkr47> ;)
Jan 19 14:05:23 <xkr47> without*
Jan 19 14:05:56 <mickeyl> koen: i stumbled over the bug in populate-volatile.sh
Jan 19 14:06:22 <koen> mickeyl: the one which ph5 fixes, or another one?
Jan 19 14:06:25 <aloril> 2007-01-19 01:40:44 <dduardo>   ALICE + festival: Your phone talks for you
Jan 19 14:06:34 <mickeyl> koen: i think the ph5 one. but other than that, it worked. looked less impressive on the screen though.
Jan 19 14:06:39 <xkr47> alp, :)
Jan 19 14:06:41 <xkr47> aloril, even
Jan 19 14:06:45 <aloril> hmm.. add voice -> text and then you could to this
Jan 19 14:06:46 <mickeyl> 280 dpi really make a difference
Jan 19 14:06:52 <xkr47> stealth joining by alp there
Jan 19 14:07:16 <alp> heh. afternoon
Jan 19 14:07:18 <xkr47> 280dpi is a lot
Jan 19 14:07:18 <buz> mhh some qtopia guys were here before
Jan 19 14:07:30 <buz> they are out for us
Jan 19 14:07:36 <aloril> start "voice -> text -> alice -> festival" -button when marketing rings ;-)
Jan 19 14:07:51 <xkr47> out to kill, embrace or out of scope ?-)
Jan 19 14:07:55 <buz> that'd be like a turing test for the marketer
Jan 19 14:08:16 <buz> out to get us
Jan 19 14:08:26 * buz grabs tinfoilhat
Jan 19 14:08:59 <xkr47> "the tinfoilhat actually amplif..."
Jan 19 14:09:23 <CM> alp: Want mono on it? ;)
Jan 19 14:10:14 * xkr47 buys two mokos to get stereo!!
Jan 19 14:10:27 * xkr47 applies one moko in front of the left eye and the other in front of the right eye :)
Jan 19 14:10:35 <benJIman> alp: are you going to fosdem?
Jan 19 14:11:06 <benJIman> Also have you been scared off by compsoc?
Jan 19 14:11:41 <Sencer> xkr47: image a beowulf cluster of Neos...
Jan 19 14:11:50 <koen> mickeyl: but the tosa showed the same issues as the gta01?
Jan 19 14:11:58 <xkr47> Sencer, I only have two eyes, sorry ;)
Jan 19 14:12:01 <alp> CM: sure. i am not quite sure what "it" is yet, but sure ;-)
Jan 19 14:12:12 <xkr47> Sencer, stereo sight is enough for me ;)
Jan 19 14:12:26 <ozamosi> xkr47: get four, and you can do double buffering :)
Jan 19 14:12:29 <CM> alp: Was refering to OpenMoko running on a Neo1973
Jan 19 14:12:41 <alp> benJIman: fosdem is on the cards. i should get my ass back in compsoc in the meantime
Jan 19 14:12:46 <mickeyl> koen: the slowness, yes. it's a Gtk + theming problem.
Jan 19 14:12:46 <xkr47> ozamosi, lol
Jan 19 14:13:01 <benJIman> alp: people are booking transport & accommodation soon, see the wuglug list
Jan 19 14:13:01 <aloril> so far record number of nicks: 182 2007-01-17 22:37:06 EET
Jan 19 14:13:29 <koen> mickeyl: tried sapwood yet?
Jan 19 14:13:37 <mickeyl> koen: not yet :/
Jan 19 14:13:38 <xkr47> aloril, and how many lines ?-)
Jan 19 14:13:44 <mickeyl> koen: time... ya know
Jan 19 14:14:14 <alp> benJIman: brilliant. other plans for travel fell through, will check it out. have not been to fosdem since 2002(?). exciting stuff
Jan 19 14:14:15 <aloril> 29695 lines since 2006-12-04 16:56:40 EET
Jan 19 14:14:42 <xkr47> aloril, nice numbers :)
Jan 19 14:15:06 <xkr47> aloril, maybe some plots would be nice too of traffic development
Jan 19 14:15:29 * xkr47 goes statistically maad
Jan 19 14:15:39 <leventhal> sounds fun
Jan 19 14:17:24 <aloril> xkr47: somebody has archived it for even longer: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/
Jan 19 14:18:23 <hrw|work> ~logs
Jan 19 14:18:25 <apt> apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly"
Jan 19 14:19:09 <xkr47> apt, you're wrong, it's URL encoded, not HTML encoded.. html encoded would be just # or &#23; !
Jan 19 14:44:07 <noidd>  don't archive this?
Jan 19 14:44:18 <noidd> archive this (and not the line before)
Jan 19 14:44:19 <noidd> cute
Jan 19 14:45:22 <noidd> hmm, 31 days to my birthday and I think we all know what I want for that ;-D
Jan 19 14:45:59 <aevin> noidd: i have no iddea
Jan 19 14:46:17 <hrw|work> noidd: bottle of wine and kiss from beautiful girl?
Jan 19 14:47:03 <gobe> so openmoko supports gtk+ 2.6?
Jan 19 14:47:29 <rob_w> gobe, i bet it will even be 2.8 or so
Jan 19 14:48:01 <koen> 2.6.10 iirc
Jan 19 14:48:11 <gobe> so i suppose that means i shouldn't both with cairo and stick to drawing with gdk
Jan 19 14:48:18 <gobe> both=bother
Jan 19 14:54:23 <Paladine> no announcement yet?
Jan 19 14:55:00 <vargr> it's only friday for, uh, 12.5 more hours here
Jan 19 14:55:03 <koen> gobe: you can always install cairo
Jan 19 14:55:28 <xorAxAx> the topic doesnt say if it will this friday or the next friday, or even another friday, Paladine 
Jan 19 14:55:32 <jthomas> cairo makes for better graphics?  IMHO, it should be included if so...
Jan 19 14:55:38 <xorAxAx> s/ll t/ll be t/
Jan 19 14:55:38 <apt> xorAxAx meant: the topic doesnt say if it will be this friday or the next friday, or even another friday, Paladine 
Jan 19 14:56:12 <koen> I don't think aliasing is a big issue on a 300dpi screen
Jan 19 14:56:37 <XorA> someone stealing me nick there xorAxAx :-)
Jan 19 14:56:38 <Paladine> xorAxAx, apparantly the announcement on tuesday was that the roadmap announcement would be this firday (as in today)
Jan 19 14:56:45 <leventhal> vargr: what time zone are you in?
Jan 19 14:57:09 <xorAxAx> Paladine: the topic doesnt know that, though
Jan 19 14:57:18 <aevin> Paladine: they're probably proofreading it now.
Jan 19 14:57:25 <xorAxAx> XorA: you seem to be a bit short grown compared to me :)
Jan 19 14:57:34 <xorAxAx> XorA: i am executable 8086 assembler, how about you?
Jan 19 14:57:36 <XorA> xorAxAx: Im only a little 8 bit micro
Jan 19 14:57:44 <Paladine> yeah but I am quite capable of reading the topic, I never asked what the topic says :p I have just been away from my PC for a little while and wondered if anything had happened in my ansence :p
Jan 19 14:57:48 <Paladine> absence
Jan 19 14:57:51 <XorA> xorAxAx: Z80 assembler
Jan 19 14:57:56 <xorAxAx> oh, z80 ...
Jan 19 14:58:06 <xorAxAx> reminds me at my adaptec controller
Jan 19 14:58:13 <leventhal> reminds me of my ti-83
Jan 19 14:58:17 <xorAxAx> and the alphatronic pc of my father
Jan 19 14:59:19 <gobe> koen: can cairo be used with earlier versions of gtk+ like 2.6?
Jan 19 14:59:37 <koen> yes
Jan 19 14:59:53 <koen> altough I'd wait till cairo 1.4 gets released before trying it in the neo
Jan 19 15:00:00 <koen> cairo 1.2 is a bit slow
Jan 19 15:00:07 <xorAxAx> koen: so, please elaborate on your openmoko/fic topic you talked about before
Jan 19 15:00:20 <koen> gobe: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/cairo-performance-improvements-on-arm
Jan 19 15:00:29 <gobe> koen: i see, well since i only need rudimentary drawing tools, perhaps i should just stick with gdk for speed
Jan 19 15:08:02 <gobe> are there any issues with using gtkmm for openmoko dev?
Jan 19 15:08:50 <mickeyl> other than the speed and memory penality, no
Jan 19 15:09:10 <gobe> yes that's what i am curious of
Jan 19 15:09:19 <gobe> are they big penalties?
Jan 19 15:09:36 <mickeyl> speed wise probably not
Jan 19 15:09:44 <mickeyl> just a set of additional function call indirections
Jan 19 15:09:48 <gobe> indeed
Jan 19 15:09:54 <mickeyl> however memory might be a couple of MBs
Jan 19 15:10:13 <gobe> how much does the neo have?
Jan 19 15:11:18 <mickeyl> 128MB
Jan 19 15:11:24 <mickeyl> sdram, that is
Jan 19 15:11:31 <gobe> i see
Jan 19 15:11:45 <mickeyl> which should be ok, just a question of how many concurrent apps you may want to run
Jan 19 15:11:51 <mickeyl> i even want to see Qt apps on OpenMoko
Jan 19 15:11:56 <mickeyl> so, we'll see
Jan 19 15:12:11 <TRIsoft> mickeyl: Qt apps would be nice 
Jan 19 15:12:38 <gobe> is this roadmap announcement concerning hardware or software?
Jan 19 15:13:51 <jthomas> KDE apps would be nice also; i want the Neo but I doubt it will win me over to GNOME..
Jan 19 15:15:28 <mickeyl> gobe: both
Jan 19 15:15:36 <gobe> oh nice
Jan 19 15:15:41 <mickeyl> desktop environments are not really suited for embedded systems anyway
Jan 19 15:15:52 <mickeyl> at least not on 2.8" VGA :D
Jan 19 15:15:59 <mickeyl> not counting the usability paradigms
Jan 19 15:16:03 <mickeyl> heh
Jan 19 15:17:50 <aloril> I guess this is still true "... guys are writing the draft ...", ie you haven't gotten it for review yet (I should not be this inpatient ..): I guess they want to be reasonably careful, it might end up in various places and quoted, etc...
Jan 19 15:18:24 <gobe> thanks koen and mickeyl
Jan 19 15:39:19 <kabturek> ETA on announcement ? ;)
Jan 19 15:39:36 <koen> 2 weeks
Jan 19 15:41:06 <Tv> if I ask that again will it be 3 weeks?-)
Jan 19 15:41:19 <kabturek> koen: you are 2 weeks behind man ;) its today ;) only i don't know the time :)
Jan 19 15:43:27 <aloril> kabturek: probably any time to some hours
Jan 19 15:44:46 * XorA thinks 3.141592654 weeks
Jan 19 15:53:28 <TRIsoft> mickeyl: Today, Pacific time would give you three extra hours :-)
Jan 19 15:53:51 <mickeyl> hehe, central time should be enough for Sean to wake up again :)
Jan 19 15:54:04 <TRIsoft> mickeyl: That's true
Jan 19 15:54:20 <mickeyl> actually yukon time in Alaska
Jan 19 15:54:22 <mickeyl> 07:24
Jan 19 15:54:23 <mickeyl> :D
Jan 19 15:54:46 <mickeyl> or even hawaii
Jan 19 15:54:51 <mickeyl> 06:24
Jan 19 15:54:54 * mickeyl chuckels
Jan 19 15:55:44 <Sencer> for people not in the US: Central Daylight Time (CDT) = GMT-5
Jan 19 15:55:53 * Sencer had to look it up
Jan 19 15:56:08 <SubWolf> Right, but isn't it standard time right now, or GMT-6....
Jan 19 15:57:04 <Lorphos> central time? what does that mean? somewhere between 9am and 5pm central?
Jan 19 15:57:08 <aloril> < 13.6h
Jan 19 15:57:14 <Sencer> SubWolf: oops, of course you're right.
Jan 19 15:57:58 <SubWolf> :) np, didn't they change the bloody laws in the US about when daylight savings starts anyway this year? Ridiculous. :x
Jan 19 16:04:09 * jjazz just got a Treo.  Wishes it ran linux.
Jan 19 16:04:13 <SubWolf> Ha, front-page story on Digg Technology about it too. "In the United States the start and end of daylight savings times are being changed in 2007. Daylight savings time will now start on March 11, 2007 (rather than early April) and will end on November 4, 2007 (rather than late October). Canada has also decided to follow the same schedule."
Jan 19 16:05:04 <SubWolf> I wish I hadn't got stuck with Verizon for another two years, CDMA only. :(
Jan 19 16:05:11 <jjazz> I really only use NY Time, so all the DST stuff is irrelevant.  When I schedule meetings and calls internationally, I just say NY Time and people figure it out for themselves.
Jan 19 16:05:24 <SubWolf> Aye, good idea.
Jan 19 16:07:00 <jjazz> I have a plethora of gsm phones now.  None of them really meets my needs.
Jan 19 16:08:03 <jjazz> 3 sim cards, 4 phones, zero satisfaction.
Jan 19 16:10:44 <leventhal> i know that feeling jjazz.. also disappointed in the gsm provider here
Jan 19 16:11:55 <jjazz> I have no complaints about my provider, t-mobile.  It's really the devices themselves that are lacking.  Hopefully a truly open platform will be the big push that moves things forward.  But the hardware is a sticking point too.  The Neo's lack of a keyboard is going to be a challenge.
Jan 19 16:12:16 <leventhal> T-Mobile is awesome compared to Rogers
Jan 19 16:12:39 <jjazz> I don't know Rogers.
Jan 19 16:13:05 <leventhal> I'm not too worried about the lack of keyboard. There are a few thumboards that use bluetooth.
Jan 19 16:13:41 <jjazz> leventhal: It just means I won't be whipping it out of my pocket to write a quick email while standing on the subway.
Jan 19 16:14:07 <leventhal> true.. even clipping the thumbboard is annoying
Jan 19 16:14:15 <jjazz> leventhal: And the thumboard separate from the screen means it will make answering email while driving a pain.
Jan 19 16:14:17 <aloril> its getting late at Taiwan
Jan 19 16:14:47 <jjazz> aloril: It's almost 1am in Taiwan, right?  What are you doing still up?
Jan 19 16:15:15 <aloril> jjazz: I'm in Finland, not late yet, but FIC is at Taiwan ;-)
Jan 19 16:15:25 <aloril> and I think its almost 2am there
Jan 19 16:15:26 <leventhal> afk, lunch
Jan 19 16:15:27 <jjazz> aloril: Are you worried that they're not getting enough sleep?
Jan 19 16:16:45 <aloril> jjazz: they are working on announcement, just commenting that its getting late so unless they will continue tomorrow morning in their local time it probably will happen soon
Jan 19 16:17:10 <TRIsoft> off now. Hope the announcement will be there when i'm back in a few hours ;-)
Jan 19 16:17:44 <kabturek> the announcements always worry me ;)
Jan 19 16:17:57 <jjazz> aloril: Oh right, the big announcement.  Frankly, I expect it will be disappointing.  There's no way they'll give enough information to satisfy the people here.  (especially because what people really want are handsets, not announcements)
Jan 19 16:18:33 <aloril> jjazz: hehe
Jan 19 16:19:05 <jthomas> jjazz you're right
Jan 19 16:20:00 <jjazz> jthomas: Not that I'm not eager for some news, mind you.  :)
Jan 19 16:20:09 <jthomas> right again!
Jan 19 16:21:52 <CM> I'm hoping that the announcement will say that only the dev-lunchbox is released now, and the official one is later. Like April 3:rd or so.
Jan 19 16:21:59 * CM is guessing wildly
Jan 19 16:22:23 <jthomas> what does it take to get an early release (dev release)?
Jan 19 16:22:57 <CM> Not too much I hope, since I don't have any real dev-record to talk about.
Jan 19 16:23:13 <jthomas> :)
Jan 19 16:23:26 <CM> I'm hoping that you can get the dev-kid for maybe $450 or so even if you're not an "approved developer"
Jan 19 16:23:26 <jthomas> and i have none...
Jan 19 16:23:59 <CM> s/dev-kid/developers lunchbox/
Jan 19 16:23:59 <apt> CM meant: I'm hoping that you can get the developers lunchbox for maybe $450 or so even if you're not an "approved developer"
Jan 19 16:24:35 <aloril> CM: that sounds good strategy
Jan 19 16:24:42 * koen hopes devs get a huge discount
Jan 19 16:24:59 <CM> koen: I hope you do too :-)
Jan 19 16:26:02 <Stephmw> evenin'
Jan 19 16:26:10 <CM> Morning
Jan 19 16:26:20 <aloril> koen: that gave me interesting idea: submit patch, make new program or modify existing program work better -> discount
Jan 19 16:27:08 <aloril> dunno of practicality of this idea
Jan 19 16:27:50 * greentux_nokia will sponsor some phones for devs
Jan 19 16:28:27 <Sencer> greentux_nokia: that's a pretty nice move
Jan 19 16:30:29 <stefan_schmidt> greentux_: Yourself or your company? Nice to see that Nokia is interested that much in Linux on smartphones.
Jan 19 16:30:38 <stefan_schmidt> sigh
Jan 19 16:30:49 <stefan_schmidt> greentux_nokia:  Yourself or your company? Nice to see that Nokia is interested that much in Linux on smartphones.
Jan 19 16:30:51 <Stephmw> stefan_schmidt: I wish the interest went further into their other platforms
Jan 19 16:31:00 <Stephmw> stefan_schmidt: not just the smart stuff
Jan 19 16:31:08 <greentux_nokia> No i irc with nokia
Jan 19 16:31:16 <Stephmw> kinky
Jan 19 16:31:39 <greentux_nokia> Nokia 6630 btw
Jan 19 16:31:46 <stefan_schmidt> Stephmw: I heardx rumors about many nokia phones running linux in the lab already.
Jan 19 16:31:53 <Matt_PI> I know the devepers of Joost are interested in developing linux clients for mobiles 
Jan 19 16:32:06 <stefan_schmidt> greentux_nokia: Ah, ok. :)
Jan 19 16:32:06 <Matt_PI> www.joost.com
Jan 19 16:32:14 <Stephmw> stefan_schmidt: I'd love to hear more about those - any particular Series?
Jan 19 16:32:39 <stefan_schmidt> Stephmw: Only rumors. Sorry. /me know nobody at nokia labs.
Jan 19 16:33:27 <stefan_schmidt> greentux_nokia: I was confused about the realname. Takes some time before I got it right.
Jan 19 16:33:45 <stefan_schmidt> took, even
Jan 19 16:34:00 <CM> xkr47: Muine screenshot: http://muine-player.org/wiki/Image:CMMainPageScreenshot.png
Jan 19 16:34:23 <jjazz> greentux_nokia: How do you type on that thing?
Jan 19 16:34:48 <aloril> I wonder that if you developed enough stuff for v1, would one get v2 for free or with nice discount
Jan 19 16:35:37 <jjazz> aloril: Handsets are cheap compared to developer hours.  If FIC can pay for significant improvements in handsets, believe me they will.
Jan 19 16:36:59 <greentux_nokia> Jjazz with t9
Jan 19 16:38:05 <jjazz> greentux_nokia: Ah.  I don't text message much.  The other day, I tried to send an angry text message and was thwarted because t9 on my phone doesn't know the word "venemous".
Jan 19 16:38:15 <jjazz> venomous, rather
Jan 19 16:39:52 <greentux_nokia> Only for reading the channel
Jan 19 16:40:52 <noiddd> lo
Jan 19 16:41:29 <noiddd> on net from doctors office.  not on my deathbed so any news on the announcement?? :)
Jan 19 16:42:13 <noiddd> msg nickserv identify wibbleme
Jan 19 16:42:48 <noiddd> thank crunchie for typos
Jan 19 16:52:58 <Stephmw> jjazz: most T9 implementations these days are adaptive thankfully
Jan 19 16:53:35 <bhima> Predictive text tends to hav eone problem: if you mis-spell a word, or mis-type it early on, it fails.
Jan 19 16:53:42 <jjazz> Stephmw: I was on an old handset.  Not adaptive, and barely functional for messaging.
Jan 19 16:57:21 <noidd> predictive text sucks when you speak more than one language
Jan 19 16:57:36 <Stephmw> noidd: agreed... although it eventually learns both
Jan 19 16:58:30 <noidd> well.. since my other language is sign language predictive text isnt goinh to help.
Jan 19 16:58:58 <greentux_nokia> Sorry for using t9 :-)
Jan 19 16:59:48 <noidd> im ircing over a screen session via treo ssh
Jan 19 17:00:02 <noidd> its unbearably slow per character
Jan 19 17:00:23 <jjazz> noidd: What do you use for ssh?  And how do you do cntrl-a?
Jan 19 17:00:32 <noidd> im hoping that thats due to the application not the cingular network
Jan 19 17:00:40 <noidd> pssh
Jan 19 17:01:02 <noidd> and there is a ctrl button on the screen
Jan 19 17:01:23 <jjazz> Ah.  Interesting.  I thought the alt button might be used.
Jan 19 17:01:31 <jjazz> But I guess that doesn't get passed to the app.
Jan 19 17:01:45 <noidd> what would you use alt for??
Jan 19 17:01:54 <jjazz> Alt-A instead of Cntrl-A
Jan 19 17:12:51 <noiddd> hmm
Jan 19 17:12:59 <noiddd> testing an irc client
Jan 19 17:13:12 <noiddd> ptpchat of all things.
Jan 19 17:13:58 <noiddd> since I see no replies I'm assuming its borked
Jan 19 17:14:44 <vargr> test reply
Jan 19 17:14:58 <vargr> borked?
Jan 19 17:15:06 <noiddd> rock - thanks
Jan 19 17:15:34 <noiddd> borked is faux swedish for broken or a typo :)
Jan 19 17:16:12 <noiddd> I wonder what time it is in .tw
Jan 19 17:16:15 <aloril2> this testing inflates nick counts ;-)
Jan 19 17:17:03 <noiddd> accidental I promise.
Jan 19 17:17:11 <MindCrusher> join ubunu
Jan 19 17:20:32 <kabturek> ubuntu christian edition , satan edition , now ubunu ? man the family is growing fast ;)
Jan 19 17:21:33 <noiddd> heh
Jan 19 17:21:44 <noiddd> gotta go - driving.
Jan 19 17:22:31 <|Melkman|> has there been an annoucement yet ?
Jan 19 17:22:48 * |Melkman| just returned from work
Jan 19 17:23:04 <kabturek> not
Jan 19 17:23:19 <pike_> |Melkman|: first quarter 2008
Jan 19 17:23:20 <kabturek> nothing yet :)
Jan 19 17:23:27 <aloril> not yet, should be in <12.2h
Jan 19 17:23:52 <|Melkman|> hehe. gues it realy will be an other friday :-)
Jan 19 17:24:06 <aloril> |Melkman|: see topic
Jan 19 17:28:18 <vargr> /topic
Jan 19 17:29:49 <aloril> about 10 more and we pass ##windows : http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode&query=&num=40
Jan 19 17:44:47 <ciastek> hello! has the roadmap been already annouced?a
Jan 19 17:44:57 <Zer0Her0_> yes, but we're not telling you
Jan 19 17:45:00 <sarp> No ;_;
Jan 19 17:45:01 <koen> hehe
Jan 19 17:45:03 <skome> sorry, what is "Central Time"? US? Can this be expressed in swatch internet beat time instead?
Jan 19 17:45:12 <sarp> -6 GMT I believe
Jan 19 17:45:17 <ciastek> hehe, thank you all! ;]
Jan 19 17:45:31 <Zer0Her0_> skome: haha, yes i was wondering why they chose central time
Jan 19 17:46:40 <xorAxAx> because sean is in the us?
Jan 19 17:47:03 <koen> I thought sean was in .tw now
Jan 19 17:47:48 <aloril> announcement in < 11.8h (according to topic)
Jan 19 17:47:59 <aloril> its over 3am in Taiwan
Jan 19 17:48:00 <vargr> well, that narrows it
Jan 19 17:48:51 <skome> What time did mickey chime in the other day to announce this announcement? Perhaps he appear at the same time?
Jan 19 17:49:18 <skome> And if he sees his shadow, we'll have another 6 weeks of winter
Jan 19 17:49:58 <skome> How's the wind in Europe, btw? 115kph? Sounds unfun.
Jan 19 17:50:47 <xorAxAx> kph?
Jan 19 17:50:48 <kabturek> yeah i sow pictures of people in uk flying :)
Jan 19 17:51:22 <xorAxAx> in germany, we had peaks of 200 km/h
Jan 19 17:51:34 <aloril> skome: mickey changed topic about 2h ago
Jan 19 17:52:02 <benJIman> It's been ok here
Jan 19 17:52:36 <benJIman> kabturek: pft, it's only been slightly gusty, not enough to get excited about
Jan 19 17:52:47 <kabturek> http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/51,34180,3858726.html?i=0
Jan 19 17:53:04 <kabturek> "slightly" ;)
Jan 19 17:53:33 <benJIman> kabturek: blatently fake
Jan 19 17:54:35 <benJIman> Also it's been windier in Europe mainland, nothing much here, just enough to knock over a few trees, bring the fragile British transport infrastructure to a standstill etc
Jan 19 17:54:36 <ciastek> yeah.. matrix's dejavu :>
Jan 19 18:08:13 <spikebik1> hrmpf
Jan 19 18:08:16 <spikebik1> getting late central time
Jan 19 18:09:15 * Lorphos couldn't agree more
Jan 19 18:11:46 * xkr47 is back
Jan 19 18:12:29 <SubWolf> Hee
Jan 19 18:15:34 <jjazz> You people are like Gogo and Didi.  Any minute one you is going to come stumbling in from stage left, having been beaten in a ditch.
Jan 19 18:15:49 <jjazz> s/one you/one of you/
Jan 19 18:15:49 <apt> jjazz meant: You people are like Gogo and Didi.  Any minute one of you is going to come stumbling in from stage left, having been beaten in a ditch.
Jan 19 18:16:32 <Zer0Her0_> is apt a bot?
Jan 19 18:17:02 <jjazz> yes
Jan 19 18:17:04 <Lorphos> apt, are you a bot?
Jan 19 18:17:20 <Lorphos> I prefer purl :)
Jan 19 18:17:31 <spikebik1> I like supy
Jan 19 18:17:36 <Zer0Her0_> what kind is he?
Jan 19 18:17:57 <Lorphos> the kind that states the obvious, it seems
Jan 19 18:18:27 <jjazz> Zer0Her0_: The kind that spits fire, grows to 50 stories tall, and ronks all over Tokyo.  Please don't antagonize the bot.
Jan 19 18:18:41 <Zer0Her0_> hehe, it's interesting, i've never seen a bot do a s// for a statement before like that
Jan 19 18:18:48 <Zer0Her0_> it's simple but effective
Jan 19 18:18:53 <Lorphos> i wonder if you can get it to execute code
Jan 19 18:19:01 * Zer0Her0_ pokes apt with a sharp stick
Jan 19 18:19:03 <Lorphos> s/code/date()/e
Jan 19 18:20:53 <Lorphos> s/get/force/
Jan 19 18:21:09 <Lorphos> i say foo
Jan 19 18:21:10 <Lorphos> s/foo/bar/
Jan 19 18:21:12 <apt> Lorphos meant: i say bar
Jan 19 18:21:37 <Lorphos> since noone is talking, I'll play with apt
Jan 19 18:21:45 <Lorphos> s/play/`date`/
Jan 19 18:21:46 <apt> Lorphos meant: since noone is talking, I'll `date` with apt
Jan 19 18:21:46 <leventhal> s/ounds/fun/
Jan 19 18:21:59 <Zer0Her0_> hehe
Jan 19 18:22:05 <Lorphos> foo"bar
Jan 19 18:22:08 <Lorphos> s/"/'/
Jan 19 18:22:10 <apt> Lorphos meant: foo'bar
Jan 19 18:22:15 <leventhal> s/s/ounds/fun/k/
Jan 19 18:22:43 <Lorphos> it's a hot phone!
Jan 19 18:22:46 <Lorphos> s|hot|steaming|
Jan 19 18:22:54 <buz> http://blogs.qtdeveloper.net/archives/2007/01/19/webkit-on-embedded/
Jan 19 18:23:06 <buz> i wonder if that would be an option for the neo
Jan 19 18:23:08 <Lorphos> s/eam/\/omp/
Jan 19 18:23:24 <Lorphos> steaming
Jan 19 18:23:33 <Lorphos> s/eam/\/omp/
Jan 19 18:24:35 <Lorphos> buz: why not..
Jan 19 18:24:42 <Lorphos> s/./?/
Jan 19 18:24:42 <apt> Lorphos meant: buz: why not?.
Jan 19 18:24:50 <Lorphos> apt: no I didn't :-P
Jan 19 18:24:51 <buz> because it uses gtk predominantly
Jan 19 18:25:01 <Lorphos> well.. you have the freedom to change it
Jan 19 18:25:08 <Lorphos> it will be work of course
Jan 19 18:25:32 <Lorphos> foo*bar
Jan 19 18:25:33 <Lorphos> s/*/+/
Jan 19 18:25:34 <apt> Lorphos meant: foo+bar
Jan 19 18:25:53 <Lorphos> I think apt doesn't even grok regexen
Jan 19 18:26:18 <Lorphos> s/xe[Nn]/xps/
Jan 19 18:26:21 <Lorphos> see?
Jan 19 18:26:52 <skome> maybe for it's own protection. Doesn't want to get itself banned if someone tricks into being naughty
Jan 19 18:27:03 <Lorphos> yep
Jan 19 18:30:33 <buz> webkit is probably the fastest engine besides opera
Jan 19 18:31:09 <buz> (then again chances are the opera guys will release a version for neo, they have always been quite forthcoming with releases for "obscure" opensource platforms"
Jan 19 18:31:34 <spikebik1> buz true.... if paid.
Jan 19 18:31:47 <buz> mhh sometimes it's even free
Jan 19 18:31:54 * XorA|gone will use links2
Jan 19 18:31:58 <spikebik1> there's a mini-opera for java afaik
Jan 19 18:32:01 <buz> not sure exactly how opera does define what you will have to pay for and what not
Jan 19 18:32:08 <buz> spikebik1: that would require java first
Jan 19 18:32:15 <buz> (it's quite impressive, btw)
Jan 19 18:32:16 <spikebik1> right
Jan 19 18:32:29 <spikebik1> sun just gpl's the relevent jvm right?
Jan 19 18:32:32 <spikebik1> gpl'd
Jan 19 18:33:52 <cjb> they did, but I dunno if we have the JRE too yet.
Jan 19 18:36:32 <buz> even if J2ME is gpl, someone wil still have to port it to neo
Jan 19 18:37:30 <XorA|gone> buz: luckilly sun use solaris internally :-)
Jan 19 18:37:41 <buz> ?
Jan 19 18:37:48 <pergamon> greetings!
Jan 19 18:38:25 <XorA|gone> buz: unix->linux port should consist of patch up the makefile and type make
Jan 19 18:38:42 <pergamon> anyone know what time the announcement is supposed to happen?
Jan 19 18:39:39 <Lorphos> in the next 10 hours or so
Jan 19 18:39:47 <buz> except for the fact that i doubt that the J2ME graphics stuff is implemented against x11?
Jan 19 18:39:52 <XorA|gone> pergamon: 23:59 Hawain time at last hearing :-)
Jan 19 18:40:07 <XorA|gone> buz: luckilly there is an x11 version for them to test with
Jan 19 18:40:15 <seaLne> at least its still earth time :)
Jan 19 18:40:21 <Lorphos> did mickey state wether or not he already checked it?
Jan 19 18:40:23 <xkr47> buz, one would think there's such a thing since arm processors hava java instructions and all :)
Jan 19 18:40:30 <XorA|gone> buz: or was last time I looked at that area
Jan 19 18:40:32 <pergamon> seriously?
Jan 19 18:40:43 <pergamon> just "some time today", eh?
Jan 19 18:40:56 <seaLne> yep
Jan 19 18:41:16 <xkr47> they are finalizing the announcement as we speak
Jan 19 18:41:17 <buz> jazelle is not in the s3c2410 for all i know
Jan 19 18:41:25 <koen> it isn't
Jan 19 18:41:26 <xkr47> or it's maybe in the review phase already
Jan 19 18:41:47 <koen> s3c2410 is an arm920t core, not arm926-ejs
Jan 19 18:41:54 <pergamon> noticed the "Central Time" in the channel topic, and figured that meant there was perhaps an actual TIME not just a timezone.  but i suppose that does give a limit though.
Jan 19 18:41:55 <pergamon> thanks!
Jan 19 18:42:02 <skome> <Lorphos> s/foo/bar/
Jan 19 18:42:02 <skome> <apt> Lorphos meant: i say bar
Jan 19 18:42:03 <XorA|gone> koen: I wonder if we should add that to topic :-)
Jan 19 18:42:16 <koen> XorA|gone: consider it a turing test :)
Jan 19 18:42:20 <skome> eh? Sorry
Jan 19 18:42:27 <XorA|gone> koen: /topic s3c2410 is armv4t deal with it
Jan 19 18:42:52 <XorA|gone> and not fast enough to play divx either
Jan 19 18:42:53 <xkr47> koen, ok sorry
Jan 19 18:43:22 <xkr47> buz too :)
Jan 19 18:43:47 <koen> and jazelle still isn't supported in linux
Jan 19 18:43:54 <xkr47> oh, it isn't ?
Jan 19 18:44:01 <xkr47> so it requires kernel support ?
Jan 19 18:44:44 * XorA|gone has used a CPU with "java" op codes, our software VM actually outperformed the built in support
Jan 19 18:45:22 <xkr47> nice
Jan 19 18:45:45 <xorAxAx> XorA|gone: arm?
Jan 19 18:46:03 <XorA|gone> xorAxAx: Infineon chip, cant remeber which CPU familly
Jan 19 18:46:15 <leventhal> Wow.. cool
Jan 19 18:46:26 <XorA|gone> xorAxAx: SLE88
Jan 19 18:46:54 <xorAxAx> ah
Jan 19 18:49:25 <spikebik1> I'm hoping 5PM central time is worst case...
Jan 19 18:49:52 * XorA|gone goes to feed
Jan 19 19:21:51 <noidd> worst case is a post-it note that says "Just Kidding"
Jan 19 19:22:46 <pergamon> hahaha
Jan 19 19:23:30 <spikebik1> "just kidding" this was just marketing research for the iPhone, thanks for the ideas".
Jan 19 19:24:12 <leventhal> i'd be roffling if that happened
Jan 19 19:24:16 <vargr> then they obviously didn't listen to what we said about wanting it to be OPEN
Jan 19 19:25:04 <spikebik1> apple will do what they think will make them the most money
Jan 19 19:25:14 <spikebik1> if the market demands java apple will do it
Jan 19 19:25:36 <vargr> Yeah, I bet they wise up eventually.
Jan 19 19:25:45 <vargr> Just wait'll they see the success of the Neo!
Jan 19 19:25:55 <ciastek> :D
Jan 19 19:26:08 <ciastek> there would be no room for iphone anymore! ;)
Jan 19 19:26:14 <pergamon> perhaps.  i bet that they want to, but that the iPhone scares the crap out of the carriers
Jan 19 19:26:25 <pergamon> ...as they are
Jan 19 19:26:26 <spikebik1> perg why?
Jan 19 19:26:29 <vargr> You think Cingular insisted on keeping it closed?
Jan 19 19:26:34 <pergamon> my guess
Jan 19 19:27:00 <spikebik1> it's a bandwidth intensive phone that will attract very profitable customers
Jan 19 19:27:39 <pergamon> when you have real apps on there, people are going to start to really use their bandwidth, and the software is going to have to be good enough to hide latency, coverage, bandwidth, and other limitations
Jan 19 19:28:12 <vargr> Interesting point.
Jan 19 19:28:27 <vargr> I thought maybe it was just because it may reduce the number of services they'll be able to charge for
Jan 19 19:28:29 <pergamon> but yes, on the other hand, if their networks really can take it then they might be able to milk customers for the bandwidth
Jan 19 19:28:31 <vargr> if people can do them for free.
Jan 19 19:28:54 <pergamon> there's that too
Jan 19 19:29:08 <vargr> Oh well, we'll win in the end.
Jan 19 19:29:08 <|Melkman|> pergamon: I also think the carriers don't like an open phone because it is a threat to their SMS income.
Jan 19 19:30:02 <|Melkman|> a gprs IM client that is efficient with bandwidth shouldn't be a problem and can replace SMS
Jan 19 19:30:36 <vargr> Yeah, I guess they'll need to kiss that business model good-bye sooner or later -
Jan 19 19:30:36 <pergamon> yup, that too, though at the same time i'd think that SMS income will go up.  there are still a lot of phones out there with only SMS support, and it will be so much easier to send SMSs than on a traditional phone keyboard.
Jan 19 19:30:53 <vargr> probably a LOT sooner than they'd like to think!
Jan 19 19:31:09 <|Melkman|> hmm, I'll start a GPRS to SMS gateway :-)
Jan 19 19:31:29 <|Melkman|> buy quantity SMS in a give a discount :-)
Jan 19 19:32:54 <|Melkman|> If you do that with a few thousand users you will be able to get great discounts on volume SMS
Jan 19 19:33:03 <pergamon> i bet the carriers really are worried about security though.  phone companies are nothing if not paranoid about security.
Jan 19 19:33:21 <spikebik1> open doesn't have much to do with security
Jan 19 19:33:47 <pergamon> imagine an iphone worm, calling everyone in your phone book (maybe at the same time if that'll support it).  now that's some bandwidth problems.
Jan 19 19:33:51 <spikebik1> just because you can load a cute app on a phone doesn't mean you can take over the GSM network and forge calls and stuff
Jan 19 19:34:14 <kabturek> i dont think the im client is a treat to sms , at least not on the actual stage  - all phones would have to have the same im app ... etc  using the phone to talk to existing im networks isnt a treat to sms 
Jan 19 19:34:17 <|Melkman|> pergamon: a carrier will love that. Great income
Jan 19 19:34:54 <pergamon> oh i agree, but they probably see obscurity (or making it harder to access their network) as another layer of security
Jan 19 19:35:19 <parag0n> so_solid_moo_, no roadmap yet?
Jan 19 19:35:23 <parag0n> uh
Jan 19 19:35:31 <pergamon> (make that 'harder to access their network with custom code')
Jan 19 19:35:35 <parag0n> -_solid_moo
Jan 19 19:35:47 <parag0n> stupid tab-complete
Jan 19 19:35:48 <pergamon> they certainly want people using their networks ;)
Jan 19 19:35:55 <|Melkman|> pergamon: but since the GSM standard is know everybody can try to hack in to their networks already.
Jan 19 19:36:15 * |Melkman| rembemers chaos commnication camp '97 with SIM cloning
Jan 19 19:36:25 <pergamon> i suppose that's true
Jan 19 19:37:05 <|Melkman|> oh wait that was '99
Jan 19 19:38:55 <|Melkman|> '97 was HIP
Jan 19 19:39:25 <MindCrusher> when will the comunication be 
Jan 19 19:39:32 <MindCrusher> central time but at what hour?
Jan 19 19:39:46 <pergamon> heh.  join the (guessing) club
Jan 19 19:39:58 <koen> MindCrusher: 23:59:59
Jan 19 19:40:16 <koen> and them using a slow mailserver that takes 3 days to deliver it
Jan 19 19:40:50 <MindCrusher> 23:59 GMT or central (american) time
Jan 19 19:40:58 <kabturek> koen: not tu optimistic ,are you? ;D
Jan 19 19:41:09 <kabturek> s/tu/too
Jan 19 19:41:25 <pergamon> they could simplifiy their roadmap:  "Give pergamon a Neo today."
Jan 19 19:41:34 <kabturek> s/tu/too/
Jan 19 19:41:34 <apt> kabturek meant: s/too/too
Jan 19 19:41:37 <kabturek> hehe
Jan 19 19:42:23 <TRIsoft> pergamon: Neo accidentaly took the red pill. Bad for pergamon :D
Jan 19 19:42:59 <pergamon> shazbot
Jan 19 19:44:43 <koen> "the earlier you screw up, the more time you have to fix it"
Jan 19 19:48:39 <noidd> haha
Jan 19 19:48:44 <noidd> not sure that's true koen
Jan 19 19:49:09 <koen> noidd: I like to mention that at the start of a new project
Jan 19 19:49:14 <koen> and watch people freak out
Jan 19 19:49:49 <kabturek> lol
Jan 19 19:52:13 <Matt_PI> Hint hint 
Jan 19 19:58:37 <thedaniel> hey! the topic changed! the announcement is really going to happen!
Jan 19 19:58:41 * thedaniel dances
Jan 19 19:59:06 <Zer0Her0_> the announcement is...there will be an announcement at a later date...
Jan 19 20:00:40 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 20:01:20 <pergamon> hooray!
Jan 19 20:01:21 <pergamon> hope!
Jan 19 20:01:24 <xorAxAx> there will be an announcement on a random friday in this year!
Jan 19 20:01:33 <xkr47> we hope!
Jan 19 20:01:37 <xorAxAx> and it shall be before you will be able to buy the iphone!
Jan 19 20:01:55 <xkr47> even if that means you will never be able to
Jan 19 20:01:59 <pergamon> wait, 'later' as in 'later today' or 'later than today'?
Jan 19 20:02:20 <xkr47> not before
Jan 19 20:04:23 <ciastek> so we have to wait only 24h?
Jan 19 20:04:24 <aloril2_> <9.5h
Jan 19 20:05:33 <greentux_> "today" where in the world... I think saturday ...
Jan 19 20:06:30 <TRIsoft> and then they release a roadmap with a big red "X" where the FIC office is :-D
Jan 19 20:06:47 <xorAxAx> LOL
Jan 19 20:08:04 * greentux_ hopes that trisoft will sell neos next time, zhe raus is end of life :(
Jan 19 20:08:40 <TRIsoft> Don't worry
Jan 19 20:10:26 <koen> be happy :)
Jan 19 20:10:30 <TRIsoft> Yep
Jan 19 20:14:31 <boorad> hi, anyone know what US carriers I could use with a Neo1973?
Jan 19 20:14:50 <bhima> National: TMobile and Cingular.
Jan 19 20:14:55 <bhima> Local: god knows how many.
Jan 19 20:15:05 <boorad> bhima: ty
Jan 19 20:15:05 <TRIsoft> I guess every carrier with a GSM network. Like T-Mobile
Jan 19 20:15:25 <bhima> There are many, many small, local carriers.
Jan 19 20:15:37 <bhima> (The Neo1973 is quad band, right?)
Jan 19 20:15:39 <boorad> has anyone been in here talking about getting D apps to compile to ARM yet?
Jan 19 20:16:00 <parag0n> bhima, yes
Jan 19 20:16:25 <pergamon> wonder if it'll work in india.  probably?
Jan 19 20:16:52 <bhima> It won't work in South Korea or Japan. I don't know if there are any other countries with cellphones where it _won't_ work.
Jan 19 20:17:13 <boorad> how can I get the SDK?  Is it available?
Jan 19 20:18:05 <pergamon> is that because they're [W]CDMA, or different GSM bands than the Neo supports?
Jan 19 20:18:18 <bhima> The Neo supports every GSM band there is.
Jan 19 20:18:45 <bhima> South Korea is primarily CDMA of some form, I think Japan is too. Both of them are very proprietary.
Jan 19 20:18:47 <Matt_PI> CDMA yick
Jan 19 20:18:52 <pergamon> that's what i thought.
Jan 19 20:19:01 <bhima> CDMA is a very nifty protocol.
Jan 19 20:19:13 <bhima> ANything that is claimed to violate information theory must be sexy.
Jan 19 20:19:21 <pergamon> i think Iraq is CDMA too ;)
Jan 19 20:19:43 <Matt_PI> thats becuse the American rebuilt thier network 
Jan 19 20:19:46 <boorad> SDK?
Jan 19 20:19:47 <greentux_> bhima:  iraq has also no gsm
Jan 19 20:19:54 <bhima> I heard some disputes about Iraq's coverage. IIRC, somebody installed a GSM network without asking at one point.
Jan 19 20:20:26 <greentux_> north korea has no network
Jan 19 20:20:31 <Matt_PI> the GIs use wireless where they can 
Jan 19 20:20:58 <pergamon> haha.  that's awesome.  yeah, i remember the coverage about us forcing CDMA in iraq
Jan 19 20:21:19 <bhima> http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_iq.shtml
Jan 19 20:21:20 <pergamon> north korea uses "CB" and "short wave"
Jan 19 20:21:55 <TRIsoft> I thought north korea uses bongo drums ?? ;-)
Jan 19 20:22:07 <Matt_PI> theres whole 802.11 wirleless networks in iraq set up by soldiers 
Jan 19 20:22:32 <Matt_PI> all illeagly sharing music LOL
Jan 19 20:22:44 <leventhal> heh.. the copyright law in iraq is scary
Jan 19 20:22:48 <leventhal> worse than DMCA
Jan 19 20:22:50 <xkr47> robtaylor, ping
Jan 19 20:23:15 <leventhal> Chief executive for the Recording Industry Association of America, Hilary Rosen, is helping draft copyright legislation for the New Iraq, according to investigative journalist Gregory Palast.
Jan 19 20:23:20 <leventhal> "Who's really going to win this war? It looks like Madonna," Palast told Democracy Now radio.
Jan 19 20:23:46 <Matt_PI> they want them to sign WIPO I bet
Jan 19 20:24:05 <xkr47> ugh.. the N800 has a race condition that sometimes causes the display to _DIE_ during reboot
Jan 19 20:24:05 <Matt_PI> no WIPO no UN help 
Jan 19 20:24:19 <xkr47> my friend's screen just died 10 secs ago :O
Jan 19 20:24:32 <xkr47> luckily it's known and they replace the device for free :P
Jan 19 20:24:35 * bhima pokes xkr47 and points him to #maemo
Jan 19 20:24:55 <xkr47> sorry :)
Jan 19 20:25:00 <pergamon> whoa
Jan 19 20:25:03 * xkr47 is now shutting up
Jan 19 20:25:43 <noidd> die as in permenant?
Jan 19 20:25:55 <xkr47> yes :P
Jan 19 20:26:27 * rwhitby wakes up on Saturday morning and looks for an announcement ...
Jan 19 20:26:41 <xkr47> good night :)
Jan 19 20:26:54 <greentux_> 16 left for 200... call your friends!
Jan 19 20:27:17 <pergamon> heh.  when you'd try to set a high resolution or refresh rate for monitor in BeOS, a popup dialog would warn you that it might damage the monitor.  the dialog box's options were either "Cancel" or "Poof!"
Jan 19 20:27:53 <pergamon> but rebooting?!
Jan 19 20:28:06 <benJIman> What on earth is Central time?
Jan 19 20:28:08 <noidd> 16 left for 200 what?
Jan 19 20:28:11 <benJIman> Central what, european time?
Jan 19 20:28:18 <pergamon> probably CST
Jan 19 20:28:18 <leventhal> noidd: 200 usersin this channel
Jan 19 20:28:38 <noidd> ah, there was me thinking there was a pre-order for developers at $200 per unit ;-p
Jan 19 20:28:39 <benJIman> Why can't people use a real timezone, or offset from GMT.
Jan 19 20:28:55 <leventhal> -6 GMT
Jan 19 20:29:01 <TRIsoft> For working worldwide, Zulu time (GMT) is OK
Jan 19 20:29:18 <pergamon> http://time.gov/timezone.cgi?Central/d/-6/java
Jan 19 20:29:21 <TRIsoft> And this means, they've 3 hours left :D
Jan 19 20:29:24 <greentux_> noidd:  200 user in that channel
Jan 19 20:29:25 <leventhal> giving an actual time would be nice too
Jan 19 20:29:54 <xkr47> Fri Jan 19 21:00:01 CST 2007
Jan 19 20:30:05 <xkr47> TZ=CST date
Jan 19 20:30:17 <benJIman> "Central Time"could be any of about 5 timezones
Jan 19 20:30:20 <xkr47> (tcsh users add env in front)
Jan 19 20:30:27 <boorad> so do people have a SDK and are developing now, or  is everyone waiting for the hardware to be available?
Jan 19 20:30:37 * xkr47 waits at least
Jan 19 20:31:31 <leventhal> xkr: the announcement is at 21h CST? ok.. thanks
Jan 19 20:31:35 <leventhal> I'll probably be drunk by then
Jan 19 20:31:42 * leventhal turns on logging
Jan 19 20:31:53 <boorad> heh
Jan 19 20:32:15 <pergamon> "central FIC time"
Jan 19 20:32:33 <xkr47> leventhal, no, 21 CST is now
Jan 19 20:32:36 <leventhal> oh
Jan 19 20:32:41 <pergamon> FIC standard time
Jan 19 20:33:00 <xkr47> my fic will only report seconds since epoch, as that is the only portable :)
Jan 19 20:33:04 <leventhal> .. huh? I thought it was 1500 CST
Jan 19 20:33:05 <xkr47> no, just kidding
Jan 19 20:33:11 <leventhal> and 2100 GMT
Jan 19 20:33:23 <xkr47> not according to my linux
Jan 19 20:33:34 <leventhal> your linux is broked
Jan 19 20:33:43 <sarp> If it's Central US it's definitely 1500..
Jan 19 20:34:09 <thedaniel> 21 CST is NOT now
Jan 19 20:34:10 <thedaniel> yeah
Jan 19 20:34:14 <thedaniel> sarp beat me
Jan 19 20:34:32 <boorad> MDK: have you had any more success with ARM and GDC?
Jan 19 20:35:40 <xkr47> well in that case CST is not central US time
Jan 19 20:35:41 <xkr47> :P
Jan 19 20:36:03 <xkr47> hmmm
Jan 19 20:36:07 <xkr47> http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/central-time/
Jan 19 20:36:14 <xkr47> it says 15:06!
Jan 19 20:36:29 <xkr47> what's wrong with my linux !! ;(
Jan 19 20:36:38 <leventhal> Fri Jan 19 16:06:51 EST 2007
Jan 19 20:36:42 <leventhal> minus one hour for CST
Jan 19 20:36:50 <pergamon> yup.  i'm in EST, and it is 16:06 here, so CST (US) is 15:06
Jan 19 20:37:04 <leventhal> xkr is synced to GMT but it thinks it's CST.. heh
Jan 19 20:37:10 <parag0n> why bother giving a timezone if they're not going to give a time?
Jan 19 20:37:13 <pergamon> I wonder if the Neo will have a bloody world clock?  ;)
Jan 19 20:37:28 <pergamon> parag0n: outer bounds
Jan 19 20:37:43 <xkr47> I just thought - if it was going to happen according to CST, I might as well inform what it is right now
Jan 19 20:37:44 <parag0n> so close of business, Central?
Jan 19 20:37:46 <xkr47> but then it was wrong
Jan 19 20:38:35 <koen> so the deadline would be like 7 in the morning for me
Jan 19 20:38:48 <xkr47> me too
Jan 19 20:38:52 <xkr47> no wait, 8
Jan 19 20:38:56 <xkr47> so much bettr
Jan 19 20:38:57 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 20:38:57 <koen> at which point I'll be asleep :)
Jan 19 20:41:15 <leventhal> i'll be watching Snakes on a Plane with a bunch of guys
Jan 19 20:41:21 <leventhal> and i don't really want to so I'll be drinking heavily
Jan 19 20:41:53 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 20:42:11 <leventhal> why does everything Samuel L Jackson do have to be revered by the young geek community
Jan 19 20:42:23 <vargr> like that last star wars movie?
Jan 19 20:42:44 <leventhal> eh.. notable exception
Jan 19 20:42:53 <leventhal> and Afro Ninja
Jan 19 20:43:08 <leventhal> i expected that to be huge. afro, ninja.. anime.. post apocalyptic dystopia.
Jan 19 20:43:25 <Matt_PI> Im only like Samuel Jackson  in Tarantino Films 
Jan 19 20:43:33 <bhima> I read a funny explanation of why Mecca should be used instead of Greenwich for the meridian.
Jan 19 20:43:54 <kabturek> why oh why do i have to wait so looong :)
Jan 19 20:44:38 <leventhal> bhima: It's going to be politically incorrect, isn't it..
Jan 19 20:45:19 <bhima> http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72413
Jan 19 20:45:30 <bhima> It's not politically incorrect, it's just incoherent.
Jan 19 20:46:00 <Sencer> bhima: you gotta watch out for that magnetism...
Jan 19 20:46:24 <bhima> Apparently, using greenwich results in their being a time difference in the northern and southern hemispheres.
Jan 19 20:52:10 <Tv> I only like Samuel Jackson when his lines include "motherfucker".
Jan 19 20:52:14 <Tv> All of them.
Jan 19 20:52:38 <leventhal> yup
Jan 19 20:53:19 <leventhal> samuel l jackson was in toronto for a film festival once
Jan 19 20:53:28 <leventhal> a buddy of mine at a bar thought he recognized him but wasn't sure, turned away
Jan 19 20:53:41 <leventhal> then a few minutes later he heard someone shout... "because I'm SAMUEL L FUCKING JACKSON"
Jan 19 20:53:47 <leventhal> and then got a free beer
Jan 19 20:54:08 <leventhal> people clapped
Jan 19 20:54:09 <leventhal> wish i saw it
Jan 19 20:54:37 <bhima> I watched the first half of snakes on a plane last night.
Jan 19 20:54:40 <bhima> terrible movie.
Jan 19 20:54:43 <leventhal> oh yeah
Jan 19 20:54:48 <leventhal> which is why they stuck his famous line at the end
Jan 19 20:55:01 <leventhal> and why i'm showing up to the party late and going right to the whisky
Jan 19 20:55:02 <bhima> Don't reveal any spoilers.
Jan 19 20:55:15 <leventhal> snakes bite snakes
Jan 19 20:55:33 <bhima> I haven't gotten to that part yet.
Jan 19 20:58:31 <Sencer> marc, kannst du mal bitte gerade testen, ob du in vlc diesen netzwerkstream öffnen kannst: ftp://ftp.stw-bonn.de/pub/23C3/video/23C3-1634-en-how_to_squeeze_more_performance_out_of_your_wifi.m4v
Jan 19 20:58:42 <Tv> I still prefer to refer to that film as "Snakes on a motherfucking plane"
Jan 19 20:58:47 <Sencer> ignore, wrong channel, sorry
Jan 19 20:58:56 <TRIsoft> Sencer: Aha
Jan 19 21:00:20 <Mortimus|away> how much is the openmoko projected to be
Jan 19 21:00:49 <comicinker> hello everybody! are there data-sheets for the open-moko controller available?
Jan 19 21:01:02 <comicinker> I mean for the processor
Jan 19 21:02:03 <koen> comicinker: google for s3c2410
Jan 19 21:03:09 <ciastek> have a nice waiting guy. goodnight (in UGT ;) )
Jan 19 21:03:50 <XorA> comicinker: data sheets are easy to find as koen said
Jan 19 21:04:00 <comicinker> why not
Jan 19 21:04:08 <comicinker> if you know the processors name
Jan 19 21:04:21 <parag0n> Mortimus|away, $350 USD
Jan 19 21:04:30 <Mortimus|away> i would have to say this looks better than trolltechs greenphone
Jan 19 21:04:33 <Mortimus|away> thanks
Jan 19 21:04:38 <koen> http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html lists the cpu used
Jan 19 21:04:43 <koen> it's not that hard to find
Jan 19 21:04:48 <benJIman> Price looks better.
Jan 19 21:04:55 <koen> openmoko.com has a grand total of *2* pages
Jan 19 21:05:03 <mortimus> defiantly 
Jan 19 21:05:49 <mortimus> how would i get a U.S. network to register the phone is my question for the future
Jan 19 21:06:05 <bhima> mortimus: By plugging in your SIM card...?
Jan 19 21:06:06 <jjazz> mortimus: If you have t-mobile or cingular, just put your sim in the phone
Jan 19 21:06:10 <parag0n> get GSM sim, insert sim into phone
Jan 19 21:06:11 <comicinker> what compilers are used for it? the gcc?
Jan 19 21:06:14 <TRIsoft> simply get a sim card of t-mobile, insert, and have fun
Jan 19 21:06:24 <jjazz> mortimus: If you don't have a gsm carrier, sign up with one, plug in your sim and you're good.
Jan 19 21:06:26 <parag0n> comicinker, yep
Jan 19 21:06:29 <comicinker> wow
Jan 19 21:06:52 <bhima> The Greenphone looks kinda nice.
Jan 19 21:07:02 <comicinker> I want to do something for it
Jan 19 21:07:07 <Matt_PI> bye bye iphone http://www.lfstyl.com/blog/2007/1/19/ipod-phone-myblue-sweet.html
Jan 19 21:07:22 <TRIsoft> yes, but it is soooo, ... green ;-)
Jan 19 21:07:31 <mortimus> nice looks like i have to wait till march so i can cancel verizon without charges
Jan 19 21:07:41 <mortimus> and twice the price
Jan 19 21:08:20 <bhima> Matt_PI: People think that will have a noticeable impact on iPod sales?
Jan 19 21:08:20 <mortimus> only for the gnu kit which i hope they do not cripple
Jan 19 21:08:20 <bhima> s/iPod/iPHone/
Jan 19 21:08:20 <apt> bhima meant: Matt_PI: People think that will have a noticeable impact on iPHone sales?
Jan 19 21:08:20 <comicinker> I never coded with linux tools (Well, never really serious) but I'm intrested in programming stuff for openmoko
Jan 19 21:08:23 <bhima> s/iPHone/iPhone/
Jan 19 21:09:00 <comicinker> where is a stat point to beginn
Jan 19 21:09:32 <jjazz> comicinker: gtk, maybe.
Jan 19 21:09:32 <bhima> eww. greenphone doesn't support bluetooth.
Jan 19 21:09:44 <Matt_PI> $75 and conects your bluetooth phone via bluetooth 
Jan 19 21:09:51 <Matt_PI> ooops 
Jan 19 21:09:59 <Matt_PI> to your ipod 
Jan 19 21:10:06 <mortimus> we just have to get enough publicity to the open-source world  to beat iphone
Jan 19 21:10:22 <bhima> mortimus: You need to have good apps, too...
Jan 19 21:10:29 <mortimus> that too
Jan 19 21:10:42 <mortimus> is this RISC as in assembly?
Jan 19 21:10:43 <Matt_PI> joost is mostly open source and look at the publicity they are getting 
Jan 19 21:11:04 <mortimus> i signed up for joost beta
Jan 19 21:11:18 <Matt_PI> did you get the invite yet 
Jan 19 21:11:40 <Matt_PI> if not message me and Ill send you one 
Jan 19 21:12:25 <Matt_PI> half the apache foundation is working for Joost 
Jan 19 21:12:26 <mortimus> no i did not but does it work with linux and i only have 78 KB down
Jan 19 21:12:41 <noidd> what is joost?
Jan 19 21:12:41 <Matt_PI> it runs under wine 
Jan 19 21:12:51 <Matt_PI> www.joost.com
Jan 19 21:13:01 <bhima> Most smart phones have terrible UIs. And most Linux PDA UIs are worse than even WinCE.
Jan 19 21:13:08 <mortimus> TV
Jan 19 21:13:22 <Matt_PI> 78Kb down may be a problem 
Jan 19 21:13:24 <bhima> Though, having played with WM5 a bit recently, it's a lot worse than WM4, so I may re-evaluate that.
Jan 19 21:13:27 <mortimus> wince is an abomination
Jan 19 21:13:38 <mortimus> *windows CE
Jan 19 21:13:52 <Matt_PI> Joost uses H.264
Jan 19 21:14:24 <mortimus> isn't that a voip protocal
Jan 19 21:14:38 <WillySilly2> I bet the list of people wanting to beta test is big
Jan 19 21:14:38 <CM> Joost is the skype-guys tv-project
Jan 19 21:14:39 <bhima> h.264 is a CODEC.
Jan 19 21:14:51 <mortimus> ahh ok
Jan 19 21:15:01 <mortimus> i should read more skim less
Jan 19 21:15:31 <Matt_PI> willy ebay has invites for $15
Jan 19 21:15:36 <bhima> I have a Cingular 8525 phone now.
Jan 19 21:16:01 <WillySilly2> Matt_PI: rofl, reminds me of early in the gmail beta
Jan 19 21:16:11 <Matt_PI> yeah its kinda like that 
Jan 19 21:16:15 <WillySilly2> I got luck and got an invite from somebody
Jan 19 21:16:21 <mortimus> motorola e815m (verizon)
Jan 19 21:16:35 <sannes> mortimus: RISC as in arm I believe ..
Jan 19 21:16:44 * xkr47 hopes mickey|away is sleeping already
Jan 19 21:16:55 <Matt_PI> I havnt even bothered to email the manager I know at Joost this week 
Jan 19 21:17:07 <mortimus> ok thanks because i have worked with assembly its fun but tedious
Jan 19 21:18:03 <sannes> mortimus: assembly is in many ways just another programming language :P
Jan 19 21:18:04 <mortimus> whats the quality of joost
Jan 19 21:18:23 <xkr47> koen, ping
Jan 19 21:18:31 <mortimus> yes but you have only 20~ commands
Jan 19 21:18:52 <koen> xkr47: pong
Jan 19 21:19:17 <xkr47> koen, seems pulseaudio has a non-floating-point resampler already
Jan 19 21:19:20 <TRIsoft> ping result for koen: 13737 ms
Jan 19 21:19:32 <koen> xkr47: cool
Jan 19 21:19:38 <koen> xkr47: enabled by default?
Jan 19 21:19:50 <xkr47> koen, you just need to select it and it will bypass libsamplerate unless there's some non-trivial shit going on
Jan 19 21:20:01 <xkr47> I'll check how to enable it
Jan 19 21:20:04 <xkr47> or disable libsamplerate
Jan 19 21:20:37 <sannes> mortimus: hm, even though there are few of them (think arm has more than 20), all programs are translated into them one way or another .. (even tough you write in highlevel languages such as C) .. 
Jan 19 21:20:43 <xkr47> koen, if the input or output data is float then I guess it doesn't matter.. :)
Jan 19 21:21:15 <spikebik1> argh, no announcement
Jan 19 21:21:28 <xkr47> we should all have a moko now
Jan 19 21:21:41 <xkr47> then we could program it to make an alarm sound when mickey|away broadcasts the announcement :)
Jan 19 21:21:42 <Matt_PI> >	Joost wants to be on mobiles after they tackle the living roomand open moko is a great platoform for them becuse its mostly based on open souce code apert form the p2p networking portions 
Jan 19 21:21:51 <WillySilly2> pulseaudio would be sweet
Jan 19 21:21:58 <xkr47> yeah..
Jan 19 21:22:03 <sannes> .. which reminds, what does moko mean? (havn't googled it yet)
Jan 19 21:22:30 <WillySilly2> Lennart know about the interest in PA on moko?
Jan 19 21:22:38 <koen> Mobile Kommunication
Jan 19 21:22:46 <koen> (sean needs a spellchecker)
Jan 19 21:23:08 <Sencer> re
Jan 19 21:23:31 <sannes> hehe, Sean isn't German is he?
Jan 19 21:23:34 <Matt_PI> The K is for Hackers 
Jan 19 21:23:49 <Matt_PI> all that leet talk 
Jan 19 21:24:17 * koen updates pulseaudio to 0.9.5 in OE
Jan 19 21:24:28 <bhima> m0k0 would be 31337.
Jan 19 21:24:40 <greentux_> koen:  Mobile Kommunikation
Jan 19 21:25:04 <comicinker> jjazz: nice joke
Jan 19 21:25:38 <TRIsoft> So Sean is now known as S34n ?
Jan 19 21:25:46 <jjazz> comicinker: ?
Jan 19 21:25:51 <comicinker> gtk
Jan 19 21:26:08 <jjazz> How was that a joke?
Jan 19 21:26:12 <leventhal> no, s34n.. to be leet you may never capitalize properly
Jan 19 21:26:19 <leventhal> s34N would be acceptable
Jan 19 21:26:21 <comicinker> kinda
Jan 19 21:26:22 <xkr47> koen, it seems the default is hardcoded in src/pulsecore/core.c - look for resample_method
Jan 19 21:26:30 <xkr47> I'll check if it overrides that value from somewhere
Jan 19 21:26:36 <TRIsoft> ouchy, my f4ul7 :-(
Jan 19 21:26:41 * koen mumbles something about hardcoding
Jan 19 21:26:52 * xkr47 mumbles something about sed
Jan 19 21:26:55 <xkr47> ;)
Jan 19 21:27:45 <comicinker> I want to get familliar in programming with linux. well, the visual studio makes it quite simple for windows. but now I have the feeling I'm standing in frant of a wall
Jan 19 21:27:48 * noidd hands koen m4.  Apply liberally to improve quality of code ;-D
Jan 19 21:27:58 <koen> m4 makes my eyes bleed
Jan 19 21:28:01 <xkr47> comicinker, climb!
Jan 19 21:28:12 <xkr47> comicinker, or get scared by koen's eyes and run! :)
Jan 19 21:28:40 <greentux_> ok, a full clock is coming in 2 minutes. another chance
Jan 19 21:28:45 <noidd> revolutionary concept I know, but maybe they should use cpp to do their substitutes in their C code
Jan 19 21:29:14 <mortimus> will the file system handle like linux
Jan 19 21:29:24 <noidd> mort: it is linux so yes.
Jan 19 21:29:26 <xkr47> greentux_, don't make it sound like we're giving up here!
Jan 19 21:29:54 <mortimus> this has so much potential in my mind
Jan 19 21:31:04 <mortimus> comicinker you could try a linux livecd with development tools
Jan 19 21:31:11 <comicinker> something like: "Progamming linux in 10 steps" would be nice ;) or just an overview, what is available, what is possible. then my next step would be to jump to the openmok
Jan 19 21:31:12 <spikebik1> or try eclipse
Jan 19 21:31:30 <mortimus> eclipse is GREAT
Jan 19 21:31:54 <greentux_> ok is was not east europe time :)
Jan 19 21:32:08 <mortimus> http://www.cs.umanitoba.ca/%7Eeclipse/7-EclipseCDT.pdf
Jan 19 21:32:09 <xkr47> comicinker, I think the "Beginning linux programming" book is nice if you know C
Jan 19 21:32:22 <xkr47> I bought it as a christmas present for a friend
Jan 19 21:32:24 <mortimus> that might help you if you need to set up eclipse on windows
Jan 19 21:32:32 <xkr47> now he has ported his windows demos to linux using SDL :)
Jan 19 21:32:56 <xkr47> or well, that was a few years ago..
Jan 19 21:33:07 <xkr47> comicinker, check your local library, maybe you'll find it there
Jan 19 21:33:59 <mortimus> isn't linux programing the same except you have headers for almost every program
Jan 19 21:34:15 <mortimus> i have noticed that on gentoo
Jan 19 21:34:21 <spikebik1> er
Jan 19 21:34:32 <spikebik1> the main difference is the libraries, especially GUI ones
Jan 19 21:34:39 <xkr47> koen, pulseaudio --resample-method=trivial <other options>   \o/
Jan 19 21:34:53 <spikebik1> linux C = windows C fore the most part
Jan 19 21:34:56 <spikebik1> python = python
Jan 19 21:34:57 <spikebik1> java = java
Jan 19 21:34:57 <koen> xkr47: so it's runtime?
Jan 19 21:35:07 <xkr47> yeah.. it overrides the hardcoded default I think
Jan 19 21:35:19 <xkr47> or well.. so the code seems to do.. main.c etc :)
Jan 19 21:35:21 <mortimus> which is better to learn C or C++
Jan 19 21:35:25 * koen scratches head
Jan 19 21:35:29 <xkr47> koen, I think you can even put that in the default config file
Jan 19 21:35:34 <spikebik1> C first I'd say
Jan 19 21:35:49 <koen> xkr47: if you have fpu, you'd want libsamplerate, right?
Jan 19 21:36:07 <xkr47> koen, well I guess so.. it gives better results
Jan 19 21:36:17 <mortimus> I am learning C++ in collage but im not getting much out of the class except some concepts
Jan 19 21:36:18 <xkr47> koen, the "trivial" version does nothing but skip/duplicate samples
Jan 19 21:36:25 <xkr47> koen, aka "nearest neighbor"
Jan 19 21:36:42 <xkr47> koen, but if you are making moko-only configs..
Jan 19 21:36:49 <WillySilly2> xkr47: yeah, it'd go in /etc/pulse/client.conf
Jan 19 21:36:49 <Lorphos> so, can we start ordering right after todays announcement? or is that covered by "no preorders yet"
Jan 19 21:37:05 <koen> xkr47: I'm not :)
Jan 19 21:37:15 <koen> xkr47: trying to figure out how I can do it in OE :)
Jan 19 21:37:27 <koen> and configure option would be easy :)
Jan 19 21:37:54 <WillySilly2> make a patch and send it to Lennart
Jan 19 21:38:07 <xkr47> WillySilly2, actually it goes into /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
Jan 19 21:38:22 <WillySilly2> xkr47: ah, right, right
Jan 19 21:38:23 <WillySilly2> My bad
Jan 19 21:38:50 <xkr47> koen, $EDITOR /etc/pulse/daemon.conf -> search for resample-method
Jan 19 21:39:02 <xkr47> koen -> uncomment -> set to trivial
Jan 19 21:39:11 <boorad> mortimus: learn D - http://www.digitalmars.com/d
Jan 19 21:39:25 <xkr47> koen, if you mean something else by "configuration option", then ok.. dunno :)
Jan 19 21:40:18 <noidd> So, y'alls openmoko.
Jan 19 21:40:21 <xkr47> boorad (mortimus), heh
Jan 19 21:40:27 <xkr47> noidd, ?-)
Jan 19 21:40:32 <noidd> Black or White
Jan 19 21:40:42 <boorad> xkr47: ?
Jan 19 21:40:42 <mortimus> bookmarked
Jan 19 21:40:44 <noidd> I'm leaning towards black
Jan 19 21:40:56 <xkr47> boorad, maybe not start with D if you want to get into unix programming :)
Jan 19 21:41:05 <xkr47> noidd, hmm ?-)
Jan 19 21:41:05 <noidd> what color case was the question I was asking - pretty much :-P
Jan 19 21:41:12 <xkr47> the n800 had a nice easter egg
Jan 19 21:41:20 <boorad> xkr47: well, maybe, but why get polluted with C/C++ unnecessarily?
Jan 19 21:41:28 * Lorphos <- black
Jan 19 21:41:36 <mortimus> grey
Jan 19 21:41:49 <xkr47> if you opened the package manager, chose "add new repository", and entered "matrix" as url and pressed cancel, you get normally hidden packages in the list as well :D
Jan 19 21:42:06 <noidd> I"m leaning towards black too
Jan 19 21:42:08 <xkr47> oh sorry no.. after pressing cancel, a dialog pops up "Choose: [Red pill] [Blue pill]"
Jan 19 21:42:08 <Lorphos> cancel, eh?
Jan 19 21:42:10 <koen> xkr47: red pill mode
Jan 19 21:42:21 <noidd> I'm hoping its PSP black not grey tho
Jan 19 21:42:23 <xkr47> cancel yeah
Jan 19 21:42:52 <xkr47> the pills have the obvious effect :)
Jan 19 21:42:59 <comicinker> ok thanks guys, I will read the book when I finish this semesters examinations. sorry bother you
Jan 19 21:43:09 <xkr47> comicinker, you didn't!
Jan 19 21:43:41 <mortimus> thats pretty lame my local library does not have linux programming anything
Jan 19 21:44:00 <xkr47> :P
Jan 19 21:44:49 <xkr47> http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0764544977.html
Jan 19 21:44:56 <xkr47> (mortimus)
Jan 19 21:45:26 <xkr47> there's an excerpt in the upper right corner
Jan 19 21:46:07 <xkr47> first program is a "Hello world" and in chapter n+1 you write your own device drivers ;)
Jan 19 21:46:31 <mortimus> thanks
Jan 19 21:46:35 <greentux_> ok, going to bed. I think when I standup there will be no friday left at the world
Jan 19 21:46:41 <xkr47> greentux_, good niiiight!
Jan 19 21:46:53 <xkr47> greentux_, long live the next friday!
Jan 19 21:47:11 * spikebik1 holds out hope for 5pm central time
Jan 19 21:47:14 <mortimus> i really need to concentrate on getting gentoo updateed
Jan 19 21:47:28 <xkr47> mortimus, if I can help, shout :)
Jan 19 21:47:40 * xkr47 holds out hope in general
Jan 19 21:47:48 <mortimus> dbus has been upgraded and gnome is going to break if i restart
Jan 19 21:47:58 <xkr47> :O
Jan 19 21:48:04 <xkr47> ok sorry :)
Jan 19 21:48:23 <mortimus> its fine i have done worse
Jan 19 21:48:52 <mortimus> like forgeting to compile filesystem support inside kernel
Jan 19 21:49:46 <koen> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/83917
Jan 19 21:51:27 <TRIsoft> koen: iPhone sucks, even with the handgrenade function
Jan 19 21:51:48 <koen> the protectionism is just so funny
Jan 19 21:52:42 <TRIsoft> and they have an integrated mustart-dispenser...
Jan 19 21:53:45 * xkr47 tries babelfish
Jan 19 21:56:16 <xkr47> "if it however differently to go should not become, we also with several partners to work"
Jan 19 21:56:42 <vargr_> all greek to me
Jan 19 21:56:49 <TRIsoft> ... tries to get the sense
Jan 19 21:57:26 <koen> xkr47: "if possible, only one telco, if not, several"
Jan 19 21:58:05 <mortimus> so you want a monopoly koen
Jan 19 21:58:12 <Lorphos> well actually they have a reason: their voicemail feature requires carrier support
Jan 19 21:58:32 <koen> mortimus: I don't want a monopoly
Jan 19 21:58:32 <TRIsoft> YES ! OpenMoko rules the mobilephone-world ;-)
Jan 19 21:59:00 <vargr_> a nice open monopoly would be far preferable to what we have now, if you ask me...
Jan 19 21:59:40 <spikebik1> lorphos like the rest of the world wouldn't skip visual voicemail to get an iphone
Jan 19 21:59:52 <xkr47> koen, k.. how's the pulseaudio + oe coming along ?-)
Jan 19 22:00:08 <koen> I added 0.9.5
Jan 19 22:00:14 <Lorphos> perhaps we can also realize visual voicemail with some user configurable scripts that automatically download the voicemail to the phone
Jan 19 22:00:31 <xkr47> koen, did you change the default to fixed-point ?
Jan 19 22:00:49 <koen> not yet
Jan 19 22:01:20 <xkr47> found a problem in the alsa emulation.. pressing ctrl-c in arecord hangs the program and it has to be killed with -9
Jan 19 22:01:42 <xkr47> at the same time the daemon prints "protocol-native.c: Failed to push data into output queue." all the time until the -9 is sent
Jan 19 22:02:11 * XorA hides from alsa
Jan 19 22:02:20 <jjazz> Lorphos: Asterisk has an option to email mp3 of voicemail to users, which is much the same thing if your phone automatically grabs those via imap or pop.
Jan 19 22:02:21 <xkr47> alsa catches up with XorA 
Jan 19 22:02:35 <xkr47> alsa takes a bite off XorA
Jan 19 22:02:57 <Lorphos> jjazz: well i was talking about voicemail left on your cellphone
Jan 19 22:03:37 <xkr47> the n800 has a programmable DSP chip.. it seems somebody has programmed a mp3 decoder into it and it is then presented as /dev/dsp-mp3
Jan 19 22:03:47 <spikebik1> xkr cool
Jan 19 22:03:48 <xkr47> so if one does cat foo.mp3 > /dev/dsp-mp3, it plays the mp3
Jan 19 22:03:56 <spikebik1> maybe I should upgrade my n770
Jan 19 22:04:06 <jjazz> Lorphos: Ah, my cellphone vmail is configured to use my asterisk vmail.  It's all the same vmail to me.
Jan 19 22:04:09 <koen> xkr47: it also have a mpeg4 encode/decode block
Jan 19 22:04:17 <xkr47> so mplayer also uses that device for movies with mp3 sound
Jan 19 22:04:20 <koen> xkr47: but that doesn't work yet under linux
Jan 19 22:04:31 <xkr47> koen, sure, you can load whatever code into the dsp
Jan 19 22:04:45 <koen> the mpeg4 is in the IVA, not the DSP
Jan 19 22:05:03 <jjazz> Lorphos: Most cells allow you to specify where the call gets handed to if you don't pick up.  If you designate your asterisk vmail there instead of your cell provider vmail, you then have one less vmail box to check.
Jan 19 22:05:06 <koen> the n800 is basically a n93i
Jan 19 22:05:34 <spikebik1> oh?
Jan 19 22:05:35 <Lorphos> jjazz: good point. anyway, I always disable voice mail on my cell :)
Jan 19 22:05:39 <spikebik1> I didn't know that
Jan 19 22:05:40 <Zer0Her0_> does that DSP increase battery life?
Jan 19 22:05:51 <spikebik1> does the n93i have a 800x480 screen?
Jan 19 22:06:00 <Paladine> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070119/flq_CSIS_070119/20070119?hub=Canada
Jan 19 22:06:02 <jjazz> Lorphos: Good for you.  I don't really listen to vmail.  I haven't listened to a vmail in over a year.
Jan 19 22:06:02 <xkr47> koen, ok I don't know IVA :)
Jan 19 22:06:03 <spikebik1> does the n93i run linux?
Jan 19 22:07:47 * koen chickens out and goes to sleep
Jan 19 22:08:21 <koen> and hopefully the mailinglist will have no "OMG!!! WIFI!!! VOIP!!!" mails
Jan 19 22:08:47 <mortimus> keep that secret
Jan 19 22:08:47 <xkr47> :DD
Jan 19 22:08:49 <dduardo> OMG!!! FPU!!!
Jan 19 22:09:02 <xkr47> koen, they always do, regardless of what happens
Jan 19 22:09:15 <xkr47> WTFPU!! OM3G!!
Jan 19 22:09:33 <mortimus> well im done baby sitting revdep-rebuild i think i can take of of itself
Jan 19 22:09:34 <xorAxAx> in the DTZ (developer TZ), "this friday" will end in 20 minutes
Jan 19 22:09:41 <xkr47> good night koen 
Jan 19 22:09:55 <xorAxAx> so we should think about answers to the question "what will you buy if you wont buy the neo phone?"
Jan 19 22:10:05 <dduardo> When is the "Announcement" being made?
Jan 19 22:10:17 <xorAxAx> see the topic, dduardo 
Jan 19 22:10:31 <jjazz> xorAxAx: Hope for a linux port to the treo, probably
Jan 19 22:10:31 <dduardo> Today isn't very specific
Jan 19 22:10:33 <spikebik1> xor motorola A1200 probably
Jan 19 22:10:34 <dduardo> I need a time
Jan 19 22:10:43 <dduardo> and central time is not specific either
Jan 19 22:10:46 * xkr47 rescues Mortimus|null from the void
Jan 19 22:10:50 <spikebik1> or maybe the rokr e6
Jan 19 22:11:01 <xkr47> dduardo, 27:55
Jan 19 22:11:19 <xorAxAx> spikebik1: is it seriously usable with linux on it?
Jan 19 22:11:24 <xkr47> nobody knows, mmkay?
Jan 19 22:11:24 <Lorphos> i just go to sleep.. "today" is almost over here
Jan 19 22:11:24 <dduardo> Is that mars time?
Jan 19 22:11:25 <spikebik1> xor yeah
Jan 19 22:11:32 <spikebik1> xor they are selling quite well
Jan 19 22:11:32 * xkr47 drinks tea
Jan 19 22:11:43 <xorAxAx> spikebik1: does it run OE?
Jan 19 22:11:47 <spikebik1> leading phone in fact at some of the internet vendors
Jan 19 22:11:53 <spikebik1> OE = ?
Jan 19 22:11:56 <xorAxAx> openembeded
Jan 19 22:11:59 <xorAxAx> or how do you install new apps?
Jan 19 22:12:15 <spikebik1> no, linux OS, includes java, pretty much a turn key usable phone
Jan 19 22:12:21 <spikebik1> they provide source for the kernel and many of the aps
Jan 19 22:12:24 <spikebik1> and utilities
Jan 19 22:13:05 <xkr47> OE == build environment
Jan 19 22:13:07 <xkr47> (afaik)
Jan 19 22:13:35 <Zer0Her0_> time for the drive home
Jan 19 22:14:00 <xorAxAx> spikebik1: yes, but where do you get your apps from?
Jan 19 22:14:11 <spikebik1> zillions of places for java aps
Jan 19 22:14:13 <xorAxAx> the most open os is useless if there are no usable apps
Jan 19 22:14:22 <xorAxAx> free java apps?
Jan 19 22:14:32 <xorAxAx> never seen one :)
Jan 19 22:14:32 <spikebik1> things like opera mini
Jan 19 22:14:35 <spikebik1> google has some as well
Jan 19 22:14:36 <xorAxAx> thats not free
Jan 19 22:14:47 <spikebik1> some are free... some not
Jan 19 22:14:56 <spikebik1> it's up to who writes them (as usual)
Jan 19 22:15:03 <xorAxAx> sure
Jan 19 22:15:16 <xorAxAx> but i think no solution can beat datebk5 on my palm ...
Jan 19 22:15:34 <spikebik1> port it ;-)
Jan 19 22:15:38 <xorAxAx> its bad to see how nothing is evolved as palm os 3 and its third-party apps where years ago
Jan 19 22:15:41 <Mortimus|null> thats because you have not made one yet
Jan 19 22:15:41 <xorAxAx> its closed source :)
Jan 19 22:15:42 <spikebik1> Isn't there a java based palm emulator?
Jan 19 22:16:10 <xorAxAx> spikebik1: possible
Jan 19 22:16:19 <xorAxAx> but then, it should get synced
Jan 19 22:16:28 <xorAxAx> not sure if thats possible through an emulator
Jan 19 22:16:30 <thedaniel> xorAxAx: "the most open os is useless if there are no usable apps"
Jan 19 22:16:39 <thedaniel> that's the most ridiculous thing i've heard all day
Jan 19 22:16:52 <thedaniel> the most open OS engenders the creation of all sorts of usable apps
Jan 19 22:17:05 <xorAxAx> thedaniel: ?
Jan 19 22:17:13 <xorAxAx> thedaniel: do you know what "if" means?
Jan 19 22:17:16 <thedaniel> the most open OS with no apps on day zero is a lot more interesting on day 100 than the closed os with 5 apps
Jan 19 22:17:34 <xorAxAx> no, thats not true
Jan 19 22:17:41 <xorAxAx> think about uuu
Jan 19 22:17:44 <xorAxAx> its an open OS
Jan 19 22:17:48 <xorAxAx> but there is no single app
Jan 19 22:17:55 <xorAxAx> in the meanwhile, it died
Jan 19 22:18:44 <spikebik1> it's kinda impossible to have zero aps and run linux, especially if open
Jan 19 22:18:47 <Mortimus|null> oh man i did not see the charged over usb
Jan 19 22:18:57 <xkr47> especially if gtk compiles without a single patch
Jan 19 22:18:58 <Mortimus|null> thats pretty sweet
Jan 19 22:19:05 <xkr47> Mortimus|null, yeah..
Jan 19 22:19:16 <spikebik1> after all there are many arm based linux widgets that have aps
Jan 19 22:19:22 <xkr47> Mortimus|null, it's a so called Mini-AB USB port
Jan 19 22:19:22 <xkr47> Mortimus|null, afaik
Jan 19 22:19:23 <spikebik1> like say my nokia 770
Jan 19 22:19:26 <spikebik1> or the other linux phones
Jan 19 22:19:42 <spikebik1> linux phones aren't exactly new
Jan 19 22:20:07 <Mortimus|null> that mean i don't have to make the ghetto power supply for my phone using my computer power supply
Jan 19 22:20:22 <Mortimus|null> since it is the hub of my house
Jan 19 22:20:58 <spikebik1> T-10
Jan 19 22:23:22 <dduardo> What filesystem is being used on the Neo? Cramfs?
Jan 19 22:23:31 <jthomas> sorry if this is dumb, but I've beengone all day -- was there an announcement made?  if so, where?
Jan 19 22:24:08 <dduardo> jthomas, no announcement yet
Jan 19 22:24:12 <jthomas> k thanks for the info!  have a good weekend, all!
Jan 19 22:24:36 <xkr47> dduardo, jffs/jffs2 probably.. afaik cramfs is older
Jan 19 22:25:14 <dduardo> ah, ok
Jan 19 22:26:31 <Mortimus> this kinda reminds me of openwrt
Jan 19 22:26:40 <Mortimus> just for a phone
Jan 19 22:28:32 <|Melkman|> big difference with openWRT: this manufacturer actually wants... no needs it :-)
Jan 19 22:28:57 <spikebik1> cramfs is great for read only
Jan 19 22:29:07 <spikebik1> jffs2 is great for read/write
Jan 19 22:29:14 <Mortimus> that is a point
Jan 19 22:29:25 <spikebik1> cramfs has compression
Jan 19 22:31:30 <spikebik1> booo
Jan 19 22:31:35 <spikebik1> 5pm central
Jan 19 22:37:50 <|Melkman|> Ok, I just passed in to saturday.. I'm off to sleep
Jan 19 22:39:14 <WillySilly2> Night Melkman|sleep 
Jan 19 22:41:43 <TRIsoft> Mac goes to sleep aswell
Jan 19 22:41:52 <Mortimus> its 6 pm and im tired
Jan 19 22:47:42 <dduardo> Here is the announcement: http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=neo1973announcementra2.jpg
Jan 19 22:48:42 <borg_> lol :)
Jan 19 22:49:25 <dduardo> Introducing the Neo1973
Jan 19 22:49:31 <dduardo> It holds 1 billion songs
Jan 19 22:49:36 <dduardo> 1 billion songs
Jan 19 22:49:42 <thedaniel> that's billion with a b
Jan 19 22:49:42 <dduardo> Billion, with a B
Jan 19 22:49:50 <dduardo> ah, you beat me too it
Jan 19 22:49:52 <benJIman> British Billion or American Billion?
Jan 19 22:50:04 <dduardo> South African Billion
Jan 19 22:50:17 <cjb> heh
Jan 19 22:50:21 <benJIman> American Billion is onlya thousand million
Jan 19 22:50:38 <cjb> was there supposed to be some announcement today?
Jan 19 22:50:50 <dduardo> Yes, look at the title
Jan 19 22:50:58 <dduardo> 2007 Roadmap Announcement Today (Central Time)
Jan 19 22:51:00 <wabz> why is it called the neo1973?
Jan 19 22:51:16 <dduardo> because in the matrix they use nmap and linux
Jan 19 22:51:16 <thedaniel> just a product number, wabz, as far as i can tell
Jan 19 22:51:37 <cjb> heh:  "Today (Central Time)".  Weird mix of very specific and veru unspecific granularity there.  :)
Jan 19 22:51:45 * xkr47 considers adding a hook that will send a sms to my phone if the announcement is recognized on irc ;)
Jan 19 22:52:23 <dduardo> CJB, at least they aren't given it in Discordian
Jan 19 22:52:35 <cjb> Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 19th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3173
Jan 19 22:52:51 * xkr47 thinks neo should start up with a text "Neo, wake up" and a block cursor blinking behind it ;)
Jan 19 22:53:05 <cjb> haha
Jan 19 22:53:12 <dduardo> I think the linux distro running on the neo should be called the matrix
Jan 19 22:53:15 <cjb> well, you can make *yours* do that, right?  :)
Jan 19 22:53:26 <xkr47> we'll se :)
Jan 19 22:54:00 * xkr47 goes to review that scene in matrix
Jan 19 22:54:47 <xkr47> doh, I remembered it wrong :)
Jan 19 22:55:08 <dduardo> The next revision of the Neo needs to have USB 2.0 so I can hookup the Xbox HD-DVD drive to it and watch the matrix in 1080p
Jan 19 22:55:36 <dduardo> And they need to make the screen support 1080p
Jan 19 22:56:11 <dduardo> A 24" LCD that fits in your pocket
Jan 19 22:56:25 <xkr47> there's no block cursor.. and the text is "Wake up, Neo..."
Jan 19 22:56:44 <dduardo> The wallpaper could be white rabbits
Jan 19 22:56:53 <xkr47> yeah
Jan 19 22:56:53 <xkr47> next line: "The matrix has you..."
Jan 19 22:57:02 <xkr47> it could be changed to "The Linux has you..." :)
Jan 19 22:57:07 <buz> dduardo: there are 7" 1080 screens but they will hardly fit a neo
Jan 19 22:57:07 <xkr47> or GNU Linux :)
Jan 19 22:57:10 <thedaniel> i love this. the theme of my blog tends toward 'applying 80s scifi tropes to real life'
Jan 19 22:57:16 <thedaniel> the neo is fitting in just right
Jan 19 22:57:17 <ninHer> Gnu/Linux
Jan 19 22:57:21 <ninHer> :-)
Jan 19 22:57:27 <dduardo> Gnu/Matrix
Jan 19 22:57:52 <dduardo> a 7" screen @ 1080 wow
Jan 19 22:57:57 <xkr47> heh
Jan 19 22:58:25 <xkr47> Knock, knock, Neo.
Jan 19 22:58:34 <xkr47> and then X would start up :)
Jan 19 22:58:37 <dduardo> It would be cool if you could modulate the voice of the other person on the line to sound like morpheus
Jan 19 22:58:44 <xkr47> :DD
Jan 19 23:00:53 <dduardo> You could have a Neo soundboard on the phone: http://uploads.ungrounded.net/146000/146735_NeoSoundboard.swf
Jan 19 23:01:17 <dduardo> Guns, lots of guns
Jan 19 23:01:32 <jjazz> hmm
Jan 19 23:02:05 <CM> thedaniel: The first call ever with a mobile phone was done April 3:rd 1973
Jan 19 23:02:18 <CM> Hence Neo1973
Jan 19 23:02:26 <thedaniel> CM: that's appropriately weighty and awesome
Jan 19 23:03:05 <buz> so the next one will be enclosed in shiny black leather and called trinity
Jan 19 23:03:49 <dduardo> The USB port could be used to jack Neo into the Matrix.
Jan 19 23:07:02 <dduardo> Neat Mod: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/19/the-wii-laptop/
Jan 19 23:07:37 <spikebik1> who posted the announcement today message?
Jan 19 23:08:34 <CM> Sean I think, and mickyl is supposedly proof-reading it now
Jan 19 23:10:25 <spikebik1> oh, so it's coming soon?
Jan 19 23:10:41 <spikebik1> I feared it was canceled since it's now after-hours in central
Jan 19 23:11:30 <CM> mickyl said he was pushing on the pr-people to get the pressrelase done
Jan 19 23:11:41 <CM> And he would proof read it and send it back
Jan 19 23:11:48 <spikebik1> so hope for an announce today... or not?
Jan 19 23:11:51 <xkr47> I guess it requires a lot of pushing
Jan 19 23:11:54 <CM> And I guess Sean will look at it in the morning or so..
Jan 19 23:11:57 <CM> Heh, seems like it
Jan 19 23:12:10 <xkr47> I don't mind.. I prefer a proper announcement :)
Jan 19 23:12:13 <buz> its morning in taiwan
Jan 19 23:12:23 <xkr47> speculation ;)
Jan 19 23:12:32 <xkr47> internet + jet lag can be tricky ;)
Jan 19 23:13:52 <dduardo> I know what the issue is: They are trying at the last minute to get WIFI on the phone. ;)
Jan 19 23:14:06 <WillySilly2> ha
Jan 19 23:14:08 <xkr47> or multitouch ;)
Jan 19 23:14:15 <spikebik1> not or... and
Jan 19 23:14:22 <xkr47> xor
Jan 19 23:14:23 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 23:14:25 <spikebik1> actually I could care less about multitouch
Jan 19 23:14:26 <benJIman> Heh, just a quick re-write of X and GTK
Jan 19 23:14:32 <spikebik1> big deal zoom in/out.
Jan 19 23:14:33 <xkr47> how much less
Jan 19 23:14:52 <spikebik1> whatever, just a gimmic
Jan 19 23:15:28 <benJIman> I think multitouch will make a big difference to interface design in the future, but there arn't any interfaces to take advantage of it fully yet.
Jan 19 23:15:50 <spikebik1> people are optimistic... I've seen cool aps, none seemed phone friendly
Jan 19 23:15:55 <spikebik1> apple's demos made minimal use of it
Jan 19 23:16:10 <spikebik1> after all there isn't a whole lot of room for fingers on a 2.9" screen
Jan 19 23:16:32 <bhima> part of the benefit of a multi-touch capable display is dealing with accidental finger bumps.
Jan 19 23:16:37 <Mortimus> unless you have child fingers
Jan 19 23:17:00 <benJIman> spikebik1: Apple's interface demo didn't make much use of it no
Jan 19 23:17:06 <spikebik1> and usually I just want to select thigns anyways... move this, move that, select, etc.
Jan 19 23:17:20 <benJIman> You are used to traditional interfaces
Jan 19 23:17:47 <spikebik1> I am... but humans seem rather single point focused
Jan 19 23:17:47 <benJIman> In the real world there arn't such arbitary limits as interacting with one part of something at once
Jan 19 23:17:59 <bhima> Being able to zoom in to _any_ section of an image would also be nice.
Jan 19 23:18:16 <spikebik1> sure, like maybe *gasp* sweep out an area to zoom
Jan 19 23:18:18 <bhima> Zoom buttons like the 770 has zoom in only to the middle.
Jan 19 23:18:48 <bhima> "sweep out"? You mean, "Select zoom tool from the tool bar, then drag across the area?"
Jan 19 23:18:51 <dduardo> You could zoom with the stylus in a more precise manner without multitouch
Jan 19 23:19:44 <bhima> dduardo: I don't like using styli with mobile interfaces.
Jan 19 23:20:05 <dduardo> Well, I don't like greasy displays either
Jan 19 23:21:11 <dduardo> To me the stylus or hardbuttons make the most practical sense
Jan 19 23:22:00 <bhima> If you hold the phone to your head, your face'll put more grease on it than your fingers ever will.
Jan 19 23:22:29 <bhima> I find that I get a fair amount of grease on my displays even when I use the stylus.
Jan 19 23:23:02 <parag0n> Roadmap not around yet? :'<
Jan 19 23:23:04 <bhima> I like hardware buttons, but the right ones are never there.
Jan 19 23:24:02 <dduardo> parag0n, nope
Jan 19 23:27:32 <dduardo> How about a capacitive sensor along the side of the lcd. You could slide your finger along that instead of the actually display to scroll up or down
Jan 19 23:28:00 <parag0n> why when theres an lcd  right there
Jan 19 23:28:20 <dduardo> But the LCD has a higher coefficient of friction
Jan 19 23:28:26 <thedaniel> one of the htc phones has this
Jan 19 23:28:30 <thedaniel> it's kind of slick actually
Jan 19 23:28:49 <thedaniel> but i think the blackberry style jog wheel is the best of that genre
Jan 19 23:29:30 <dduardo> How about an accelerometer that measures the tilt of the device
Jan 19 23:29:41 <dduardo> Steeper tilt scrolls faster
Jan 19 23:29:59 <dduardo> Flick the device to the right or left to select
Jan 19 23:30:55 <CM> xkr47: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9048137234.html (About floating point on arm)
Jan 19 23:31:15 <CM> Even says ".. he was compiling the applications natively, on top of Koen Kooi's OpenEmbedded-based pure EABI filesystem.."
Jan 19 23:31:31 <xkr47> will check it in a while
Jan 19 23:32:01 <koen> http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/arm-eabi-fame
Jan 19 23:32:07 * koen <- sleepless
Jan 19 23:32:15 <CM> Yep, that was linked :)
Jan 19 23:32:23 <CM> Saw you posted that last summer even
Jan 19 23:32:55 <koen> note that openmoko isn't using EABI (yet)
Jan 19 23:33:16 <koen> we got armv4t working too late for them to switch
Jan 19 23:34:05 <koen> openmoko is using software floating point
Jan 19 23:34:15 <dduardo> An FPU would be great for doing FFT.
Jan 19 23:34:35 <bhima> dduardo: Apple played with the surface texture of the screen to get the friction right.
Jan 19 23:35:33 <dduardo> bhima, but was the same thing done with the Neo?
Jan 19 23:36:24 <koen> dduardo: you can do fft with fixedpoint math
Jan 19 23:36:38 <spikebik1> you can do anything with ints
Jan 19 23:36:40 <dduardo> I know you can do it with fixedpoint math, but it is slower
Jan 19 23:36:52 <spikebik1> it cost performance though
Jan 19 23:36:58 <spikebik1> hell you could use strings
Jan 19 23:38:44 <bhima> dduardo: It's a lot harder to play with the texture of a pressure-based touch screen, since it needs to be very thin and very scratch resistant.
Jan 19 23:39:24 <bhima> If you just have a solid plastic layer that stops you poking the LCD, it's easy to adjsut the surface.
Jan 19 23:40:00 <edwardocallaghan> Hi
Jan 19 23:40:08 <bhima> Also, I _highly_ doubt that the Neo has been customized to that extent. Going back and forth with your vendors a lot costs $$$.
Jan 19 23:40:47 <edwardocallaghan> What's new on the Announcements ?
Jan 19 23:41:30 <dduardo> edwardocallaghan, announcement: http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=neo1973announcementra2.jpg
Jan 19 23:41:51 <dduardo> other then that, nothing yet
Jan 19 23:42:07 <bhima> So, the announcement is, somebody doesn't know how to use Photoshop well. :)
Jan 19 23:42:10 <edwardocallaghan> lol
Jan 19 23:42:15 <dduardo> You mean GIMP
Jan 19 23:42:22 <xkr47> lol
Jan 19 23:42:22 <dduardo> yes
Jan 19 23:42:31 <edwardocallaghan> Yes indeed the Gimp !
Jan 19 23:42:37 <dduardo> I haven't used Windows in I don't know how long
Jan 19 23:42:45 <bhima> I don't do Windows either.
Jan 19 23:42:49 <bhima> Other than removing spyware every now and then.
Jan 19 23:43:00 <edwardocallaghan> What's windows ?
Jan 19 23:43:21 <bhima> edward: soemthing you should study so you know what mistakes to not repeat.
Jan 19 23:43:56 <edwardocallaghan> What, you just look though windows ?
Jan 19 23:44:11 <dduardo> bhima, all you need to know is how unix works
Jan 19 23:44:23 <dduardo> Forget about the mistakes windows makes
Jan 19 23:44:51 <dduardo> Windows is trying to revinvent what we've had since the 80's. 
Jan 19 23:44:53 <bhima> dduardo: So, UNIX is the perfect OS, and nobody should work on doing anything better than it?
Jan 19 23:44:53 <spikebik1> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/19/motorola_linux_phone/
Jan 19 23:44:58 <edwardocallaghan> Yes, worry about the mistakes in Unix and correct them
Jan 19 23:45:34 <dduardo> The UNIX philosophy is pretty darn good if you ask me. Small modular programs that do very specific tasks
Jan 19 23:45:48 <edwardocallaghan> bhima:No, they should take it and improve it
Jan 19 23:46:13 <edwardocallaghan> Not wast time doing the same thing over and over agine
Jan 19 23:47:21 <dduardo> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
Jan 19 23:47:38 <dduardo> Distributed OS
Jan 19 23:47:50 <bhima> The unix philosophy does help it make a lot of progress, since it's easy to replace components as needed.
Jan 19 23:47:59 * bhima has used Inferno before.
Jan 19 23:48:25 <bhima> I'm not sure I like the idea of everything being a file though.
Jan 19 23:48:38 <koen> rm /dev/cpu0
Jan 19 23:48:56 <dduardo> The windows philosophy tries to crame features into one binary and makes it difficult to customize
Jan 19 23:49:16 <bhima> mv /app/big_cpu_sucker /net/koen/dev/cpu0
Jan 19 23:51:00 <edwardocallaghan> cat /dev/urandom >> /dev/null &
Jan 19 23:51:14 <bhima> One particularly nifty thing I remember old MacOS doing was OS-level file translation services. Apps defined what sort of files they could open. FIle translators registered themselves and defined what they could do.
Jan 19 23:51:30 <bhima> Double click on a file, it figures out which apps can open it, or if none can, translates for you on the fly.
Jan 19 23:51:36 <dduardo> cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
Jan 19 23:51:40 * xkr47 tried mplayer with pulseaudio
Jan 19 23:51:41 <xkr47> worked nice
Jan 19 23:51:50 <xkr47> aplay as well
Jan 19 23:52:06 <xkr47> but twinkle (a voip program) did not
Jan 19 23:52:18 <bhima> xkr47: on the Neo?
Jan 19 23:52:25 <xkr47> noo.. just my pc
Jan 19 23:52:29 <xkr47> I'm checking what you can do
Jan 19 23:52:42 <xkr47> but the idea was that I could share devices with my neo later :)
Jan 19 23:52:54 <edwardocallaghan> ahhahah cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp that's cool
Jan 19 23:52:59 <xkr47> heh
Jan 19 23:53:03 <koen> XorA|sleep is the audio master :)
Jan 19 23:53:07 <edwardocallaghan> Did not think to do that
Jan 19 23:53:27 <edwardocallaghan> Any other tricks like that
Jan 19 23:53:30 <bhima> My alarm system for awhile was a cron job, "cat /home/gopi/foo.au >> /dev/audio"
Jan 19 23:54:49 * xkr47 challenges XorA|sleep : perl -e 'for($i=400;$i<4000;$i+=0.01) { print chr((sin($i*$t++/8000) * 127) & 255);}' > /dev/dsp
Jan 19 23:55:13 <xkr47> or whoever it was
Jan 19 23:55:17 <edwardocallaghan> lol
Jan 19 23:55:56 <dduardo> I wonder what my network sounds like? Hmmm. Redirects tcpdump to /dev/dsp
Jan 19 23:56:17 <bhima> Run a packet sniffing screen saver.
Jan 19 23:56:25 <xkr47> it sounds funny :)
Jan 19 23:56:26 <bhima> just dump random pictures to the screen.
Jan 19 23:56:31 <edwardocallaghan> See why Unix is so fun !
Jan 19 23:56:49 <xkr47> tcpdump -i web  -nn -w /dev/dsp
Jan 19 23:56:53 <dduardo> If your a really good network admin you can tell when someone is sniiffer your server by simply listening to the traffic
Jan 19 23:57:01 <bhima> From what I've been told, that's a great way to get porn in college dorms.
Jan 19 23:57:02 <xkr47> :)
Jan 19 23:57:07 <xkr47> so you always keep that running :)
Jan 19 23:57:09 <dduardo> s/sniifer/sniffing
Jan 19 23:57:49 <edwardocallaghan> lol
Jan 19 23:59:14 <xkr47> oops.. my perl was bad
Jan 19 23:59:41 <dduardo> perl is too obtuse. python is the way to go
Jan 20 00:00:12 <Mortimus> would prelink work on openmoko?
Jan 20 00:00:21 <xkr47> add a +128 after * 127
Jan 20 00:00:27 <xkr47> better sinus then :)
Jan 20 00:00:31 <Mortimus> 255
Jan 20 00:00:33 <xkr47> forgot default is unsigned
Jan 20 00:00:48 <spikebik1> in general prelink seems to trade ram for speed
Jan 20 00:00:53 <spikebik1> not a good idea on a cell phone
Jan 20 00:01:05 <spikebik1> not to mention flash has good random access times
Jan 20 00:01:09 <spikebik1> (and disks don't)
Jan 20 00:01:40 <Mortimus> ahh
Jan 20 00:01:53 <dduardo> Ooo, just posted on the mailing list: Idea: Use headphone output as a remote control
Jan 20 00:02:13 <dduardo> This would be a great way to get the Wiimote working on the Neo
Jan 20 00:02:22 <Psi> dduardo, i had that idea a few weeks ago
Jan 20 00:02:28 <Psi> IR remote control
Jan 20 00:02:39 <Psi> for tv's etc
Jan 20 00:02:47 <edwardocallaghan> /home/gopi/foo.au what's in there?
Jan 20 00:03:04 <bhima> edwardo: some random music.
Jan 20 00:03:45 <Psi> would be better if you could mount an IR tx chip inside the device accross the internal speaker tho, since there is 5v in there, and it would look better
Jan 20 00:03:46 <dduardo> my ears are about to burst from the perl script
Jan 20 00:03:46 <edwardocallaghan> Is it possible to send files over a IRC ?
Jan 20 00:04:01 <Psi> err. ment to say 3.3v
Jan 20 00:04:13 <Mortimus> random crash
Jan 20 00:04:15 <Psi> edwardocallaghan, yes, dcc
Jan 20 00:05:03 <edwardocallaghan> ?
Jan 20 00:05:24 <edwardocallaghan> send the alarm over please
Jan 20 00:06:13 <dduardo> I have an idea: how about have a camera that faces the user. That way instead of having to enter a password, the Neo would do facial recognition to authorize entry.
Jan 20 00:06:45 <dduardo> Perhaps you could even keep try of eye movement
Jan 20 00:06:51 <Mortimus> that would be sick
Jan 20 00:07:17 <edwardocallaghan> Yes that's a easy one to code
Jan 20 00:07:25 <edwardocallaghan> Hold on while I nock it up
Jan 20 00:08:33 <dduardo> Hasn't IBM been working on eye tracking as an input method
Jan 20 00:08:34 <dduardo> Blue Eyes or something like that
Jan 20 00:08:47 <daxxar> Eyegaze?
Jan 20 00:08:47 <daxxar> http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/projects/eyegaze/
Jan 20 00:08:51 <edwardocallaghan> IBM are mad, always have been
Jan 20 00:09:36 <edwardocallaghan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_qE6gMlou8
Jan 20 00:09:37 <daxxar> Probably why they're filthy rich
Jan 20 00:09:38 <daxxar> ;)
Jan 20 00:10:44 <xkr47> time to sleep
Jan 20 00:10:50 <xkr47> good night
Jan 20 00:11:17 <xkr47> in the morning, I'll see a "100 fastest got their moko now"
Jan 20 00:11:24 <daxxar> ;P
Jan 20 00:11:35 <Psi> ops
Jan 20 00:11:57 <Zer0Her0> haha
Jan 20 00:12:01 <Zer0Her0> night xkr47 
Jan 20 00:12:04 <xkr47> \o
Jan 20 00:12:05 <Psi> nite
Jan 20 00:12:15 <xkr47> I've been up for 23 hours, that's enough for today =)
Jan 20 00:12:35 <xkr47> tomorrow I'll perhaps try writing a pulseaudio plugin for xmms2
Jan 20 00:13:04 <Mortimus> i can see xmms on a phone not pc
Jan 20 00:13:12 <Mortimus> but i do like mpd better
Jan 20 00:13:22 <Mortimus> i think it takes less res
Jan 20 00:13:45 <Mortimus> anyways goodnight
Jan 20 00:13:51 <Zer0Her0> nothing just changed in the topic right?
Jan 20 00:14:12 <Psi> nope, i had my cursor in the wrong place when i tried to type something
Jan 20 00:17:16 <spikebik1> boo
Jan 20 00:17:32 <spikebik1> was hoping for an announcement
Jan 20 00:18:00 <daxxar> You tease!
Jan 20 00:18:33 <Psi> considering the word "today" will always mean "today" it could happen any time between now and the end of time :P
Jan 20 00:19:07 <spikebik1> bleah
Jan 20 00:19:13 <Zer0Her0> :(
Jan 20 00:19:17 <spikebik1> at least they could say "Sorry, delayed, monday or something"
Jan 20 00:19:27 <johnny67>    you're not entirely right - it could also have happened "earlier this morning"
Jan 20 00:19:34 <johnny67> ;-)
Jan 20 00:19:55 <Psi> until its been 24 hours from when the topic was changed to saying "today" there is still hope
Jan 20 00:20:21 <Zer0Her0> now we see why Psi changed the topic
Jan 20 00:20:55 <Psi> you found the hehe
Jan 20 00:21:02 <edwardocallaghan> I can see this phone become another of one of them would be projects
Jan 20 00:21:48 <edwardocallaghan> As soon as I get my hands on the phone I plan to port NetBSD on it
Jan 20 00:23:56 <dduardo> Breaking News: Netcraft confirms it: NetBSD is Dying
Jan 20 00:26:04 <TRIsoft> hmmm. Still don't see much of an announcement ;-)
Jan 20 00:27:18 <edwardocallaghan> NetBSD is going no where
Jan 20 00:27:29 <Zer0Her0> TRIsoft: w/in 24 hours
Jan 20 00:27:47 <dduardo> 2007 Roadmap Announcement: It will be done when it's done.
Jan 20 00:28:00 <Zer0Her0> Break news: hundreds die as they stay up for days waiting for OpenMoko announcement
Jan 20 00:28:01 <edwardocallaghan> Its got a small foot print and there is much to be learnt from its code
Jan 20 00:28:05 <TRIsoft> Yeah. Don't j/k
Jan 20 00:28:06 <Zer0Her0> 200* Roadmap
Jan 20 00:28:20 <TRIsoft> ^w don't
Jan 20 00:28:50 <dduardo> Duke Neo1973 Forever
Jan 20 00:29:02 <TRIsoft> lol
Jan 20 00:29:05 <inivex> lol
Jan 20 00:29:17 <TRIsoft> Neo is delayed, cause it's running Hurd :D
Jan 20 00:29:37 <edwardocallaghan> www.nexenta.com/ is the big thing coming as I see it
Jan 20 00:29:38 <Psi> by my calc, central time is still today for another 4-5 hours
Jan 20 00:29:50 <benJIman> Psi: depends which central time they're referring to
Jan 20 00:29:54 <Psi> yeah
Jan 20 00:29:56 <edwardocallaghan> As a advanced Desktop/Workstation OS
Jan 20 00:30:11 <TRIsoft> Friday at central alpha centauri time is in 3 months :-(
Jan 20 00:31:03 <MindCrusher> actually they did not say this friday
Jan 20 00:31:22 <dduardo> Breaking News: Netcraft confirms it: OpenSolaris is Dying
Jan 20 00:31:24 <MindCrusher> just in a friday sometime in 2007
Jan 20 00:31:54 <dduardo> Yeah, some friday in some year
Jan 20 00:31:57 <edwardocallaghan> How the hell is Solaris dying ?
Jan 20 00:32:17 <dduardo> edward, don't argue with Netcraft. They are ALWAYS right
Jan 20 00:33:47 <dduardo> Here is another idea: If the Neo had a camera you could take pictures of business cards, OCR the image and extract the contact info.
Jan 20 00:34:15 <TRIsoft> and a face regognition instead of a pin code
Jan 20 00:34:21 <dduardo> absolutely
Jan 20 00:34:28 <Psi> and if the neo had a fusion reactor it would never need to be recharged :)
Jan 20 00:34:34 <TRIsoft> but if you miss to shave, no phone :-(
Jan 20 00:34:51 <dduardo> The Neo could also spot terrorists
Jan 20 00:35:05 <dduardo> It could be linked up with the FBI database
Jan 20 00:35:17 <TRIsoft> medium beard: medium terroris, full beard: terrorist ?
Jan 20 00:36:12 <dduardo> And if the neo had a built in taser, you could shock the stranger trying to mess with your phone
Jan 20 00:36:47 <TRIsoft> And i want the handgrenade function like the iPhone
Jan 20 00:37:25 <dduardo> and after the neo blows up it better work
Jan 20 00:38:13 <edwardocallaghan> OpenSolaris is the best OS !
Jan 20 00:38:31 <dduardo> Ok, here is a more serious idea: TTY interface for deaf
Jan 20 00:39:33 <dduardo> It kind of goes along with the idea proposed to help those that are blind
Jan 20 00:39:42 <TRIsoft> It has BlueTooth, so you don't need an extra TTY port
Jan 20 00:40:36 <dduardo> not tty in the unix sense
Jan 20 00:40:38 <dduardo> http://www.abouttty.com/
Jan 20 00:40:42 <TRIsoft> Or use a USB->serial converter via the USB port
Jan 20 00:41:01 <Paladine> bwahahahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0riqzN1CM
Jan 20 00:41:18 <TRIsoft> OK, got the idea
Jan 20 00:41:54 <TRIsoft> Paladine: Yes, that's what i meant with the frag nade functionality
Jan 20 00:42:16 <Paladine> thats the funniest thing I have ever seen come out of youtube
Jan 20 00:42:36 <dduardo> I had the cheese gratter idea yesterday
Jan 20 00:51:36 <dduardo> Why software engineers shouldn't try to sing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3xbj_KZWFs
Jan 20 00:52:05 <Paladine> hey I used to be a professional singer thank you very much
Jan 20 00:52:08 <Paladine> even been on tv :p
Jan 20 00:52:23 * Zer0Her0 thinks of american idol
Jan 20 00:52:26 <Zer0Her0> ;-)
Jan 20 00:52:34 <Paladine> I said professional :p
Jan 20 00:52:49 <Zer0Her0> ok just making sure that's not what you consider professional
Jan 20 00:52:49 <dduardo> you also said "used to be"
Jan 20 00:53:05 <Paladine> yeah I got coupled
Jan 20 00:53:10 <Paladine> now my guitars are in the closet
Jan 20 00:53:31 <Zer0Her0> i had one guy claim he was a director, but only released his "work" on youtube
Jan 20 00:53:44 <Paladine> hehehe
Jan 20 00:54:10 <edwardocallaghan> software engineers is a serial killer
Jan 20 00:54:14 <Paladine> well I was in a touring band for 2 years, did live music on a pbs channel in california and had a bunch ofrecording on mp3.com
Jan 20 00:54:21 <Zer0Her0> but that's cool(really don't mean to be demeaning your work)
Jan 20 00:54:34 <Paladine> but nowadays I just annoy the neighbours when the missus is out ;)
Jan 20 00:54:38 <Zer0Her0> hmm i don't think i used demeaning properly there, but you get what i mean.
Jan 20 00:55:49 <MacNorth> one reason software engineers should try to sing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4TnhemCEmc
Jan 20 00:56:29 <Paladine> Zer0Her0, naah no worries, only morons get offended online ;)
Jan 20 00:56:54 <Zer0Her0> true
Jan 20 01:00:01 <edwardocallaghan> make it stop
Jan 20 01:00:08 <edwardocallaghan> See you guys later
Jan 20 01:55:23 <edwardocallaghan> Still no news?
Jan 20 01:55:56 <WillySilly> nope
Jan 20 01:56:13 <edwardocallaghan> When does the 'day' end then?
Jan 20 01:56:22 <WillySilly> no clue
Jan 20 01:56:45 <WillySilly> we're all clueless about it
Jan 20 01:57:31 <edwardocallaghan> http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Central/d/-6/java
Jan 20 01:57:40 <edwardocallaghan> Java to the rescue
Jan 20 01:58:36 <edwardocallaghan> http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/central-time/
Jan 20 02:00:28 <edwardocallaghan> looks like they have time
Jan 20 02:00:48 <edwardocallaghan> This phone is taking way too long for its own good
Jan 20 02:01:06 <edwardocallaghan> Its going to be over before its begun
Jan 20 02:03:52 <WillySilly> looks bad when you cant even keep your own word
Jan 20 02:05:16 <edwardocallaghan> What they could be doing now is improving there site
Jan 20 02:05:37 <edwardocallaghan> and building a community around it ready for the phone
Jan 20 02:06:05 <edwardocallaghan> The have a SDK for it on the site so people can be doing things...
Jan 20 02:08:18 <Vegar> "Central Time"
Jan 20 02:08:18 <Vegar> is that GMT?
Jan 20 02:08:23 <edwardocallaghan> no
Jan 20 02:08:31 <edwardocallaghan> that's stupid
Jan 20 02:09:07 <edwardocallaghan> Greenwich Mean Time. The time at Greenwich, England
Jan 20 02:09:25 <Vegar> UTC?
Jan 20 02:09:29 <edwardocallaghan> Central Standard Time (CST)
Jan 20 02:10:15 <Vegar> australian or north american CST?
Jan 20 02:10:56 <edwardocallaghan> US I would think
Jan 20 02:11:17 <Vegar> UTC-6 then
Jan 20 02:11:49 <edwardocallaghan> http://pastebin.com/863330
Jan 20 02:12:14 <edwardocallaghan> Sorry wrong place
Jan 20 02:23:42 <parag0n> Roadmap?
Jan 20 02:23:51 <spikebik1> nope
Jan 20 02:23:56 <parag0n> :(
Jan 20 02:39:44 <edwardocallaghan> What a wast of time
Jan 20 02:40:15 <edwardocallaghan> I look forward to my trip to Australia
Jan 20 02:43:40 <noidd> Knock Knock
Jan 20 02:43:56 <Mortimus> whats near
Jan 20 02:44:14 <noidd> the format of the joke is "Who's there?"
Jan 20 02:44:15 <noidd> :-)
Jan 20 02:44:18 <noidd> Knock Knock
Jan 20 02:45:03 <Mortimus> i know but i think you should work for it
Jan 20 02:45:14 <noidd> screw it
Jan 20 02:45:16 <Mortimus> what's there
Jan 20 02:45:19 <noidd> no announcement i'massuming
Jan 20 02:51:58 <edwardocallaghan> I hate the endianness of x86
Jan 20 02:52:19 <edwardocallaghan> SPARC ASM rules
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 20 02:59:57 2007