**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 28 02:59:58 2007 Jan 28 03:00:07 l3010o: the ipodvideo uses a SoC from Sharp Jan 28 03:06:10 i hope neo can play videos :) Jan 28 03:11:01 l3010o|study: I'm sure it will might have to be lower res 320x240 but i'm sure it's possible Jan 28 06:30:45 A Jan 28 06:31:07 counter Jan 28 06:31:08 1 week, 6 days 16:57:41 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 4 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 1 day for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 28 06:31:08 :-) Jan 28 06:33:27 lol Jan 28 06:34:03 ya know, this past week I haven't thought about any techie stuff at all Jan 28 06:34:32 I've been trying to catch up with oe stuff Jan 28 06:34:38 been a while since I've been actuve Jan 28 06:34:41 err, actiVe Jan 28 06:34:52 so I'm rectifying that. Jan 28 08:54:32 * rwhitby reads his inbox and finds a message from sean :-) Jan 28 08:58:07 rwhitby: congrats :) Jan 28 08:59:21 koen: thx - I see you and hrw and Kaloz and stefan all got one too. Jan 28 08:59:45 koen: BTW, ixp4xx-machine-endian is completely gone now :-) Jan 28 08:59:53 I noticed :) Jan 28 09:00:05 I didn't even know about SITEINFO_ENDIANESS :) Jan 28 09:00:30 heh - neither did I until I did a grep through OE to find out why everyone was spelling endianness wrong ;-) Jan 28 10:36:45 hello Jan 28 10:44:02 Hi wigyori Jan 28 10:57:21 cr2: Are you awake? Jan 28 10:57:30 sorry, wrong channel Jan 28 11:45:12 hi Jan 28 11:45:49 morning Jan 28 12:27:18 counter Jan 28 12:27:19 1 week, 6 days 11:01:29 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 4 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 1 day for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 28 12:58:58 counter Jan 28 12:58:59 1 week, 6 days 10:29:48 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 4 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 1 day for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 28 12:59:01 good morning! Jan 28 13:00:26 good morning noidd Jan 28 13:01:04 morning wbx, how goes? Jan 28 13:30:42 good morning wbx, noidd! but here is evening =p Jan 28 13:32:05 l3010o: :} Jan 28 13:33:03 noidd: fine. just missing my can opener. i am getting hungry and i only have a soup Jan 28 13:42:02 i have an "emergency button" on my phone for these cases. it calls the pizza delivery service ;) Jan 28 13:44:42 hey some of you know how is the javascript support of the phoen browser ? Jan 28 13:44:48 s/phoen/phone Jan 28 13:46:42 morning Jan 28 13:50:32 heya Jan 28 13:51:00 hrw: congratulations :) Jan 28 13:51:14 thx Jan 28 14:13:37 mornin hrw Jan 28 14:16:54 hi all Jan 28 15:01:57 mickey|dinner: does neo1973 is able to be used as cellphone already or need writing some stuff before? by cellphone I mean making/receiving calls/sms Jan 28 15:02:45 we're targetting a phone demo by the end of this week. the only thing missing should be audio handling. i have no idea about the sms status Jan 28 15:02:54 ok Jan 28 15:05:06 <[g2]> mickey|dinner I've been meaning to post this to the ML for a couple weeks but will the Neo be able to boot the kernel and rootfs from the MicroSD easily ? Jan 28 15:06:01 that depends Jan 28 15:06:05 you need serial access Jan 28 15:06:08 to talk to uboot Jan 28 15:06:16 which only works if you have a debug board Jan 28 15:06:47 i hope we can eventually make a boot menu Jan 28 15:07:02 [g2]: or you add minimal rootfs into flash which check card and kexec kernel from card into card rootfs Jan 28 15:07:05 <[g2]> mickey|dinner what about an early console via BT ? Jan 28 15:07:19 [g2]: that's incredibly hard Jan 28 15:07:27 [g2]: uboot is capable to bring usb up? Jan 28 15:07:27 basically you need the whole BT kernel stack Jan 28 15:07:37 and usb stack Jan 28 15:08:14 i hope that a couple of those early access guys get a debug board to make a boot menu happen Jan 28 15:08:15 <[g2]> mickey|dinner one could write a very simple polled driver for BT Jan 28 15:08:24 <[g2]> and actually, it could just be an output only Jan 28 15:08:35 <[g2]> so you could see the console log Jan 28 15:08:36 [g2]: sounds good. i'm all for it. i have no idea about low level stuff Jan 28 15:08:37 can you unbrick a busted flash update on a normal production phone? Jan 28 15:08:54 (and how) Jan 28 15:09:03 I'd hate to be afraid of flashing Jan 28 15:09:19 <[g2]> mickey|dinner have you published which BT chipset is being used ? Jan 28 15:09:29 dunno Jan 28 15:09:32 2.0 EDR Jan 28 15:09:40 CSR compatible iirc Jan 28 15:09:51 if you overwrite uboot with something broken, then you need jtag Jan 28 15:10:01 however you shouldn't need to overwrite uboot Jan 28 15:10:04 [g2]: its CSR usb stick Jan 28 15:10:07 and if so, only if you have a debug board Jan 28 15:10:13 bbl Jan 28 15:10:34 [g2]: Bus 1 Device 2: ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode) Jan 28 15:10:53 ah, so there's a chunk of flash you just don't overwrite Jan 28 15:11:28 <[g2]> hrw cool. So basically and polled usb driver talking to the chipset to dump line of text out would probably do it Jan 28 15:12:14 <[g2]> hrw | mickey_away and I could do the driver on the Loft probably Jan 28 15:12:30 <[g2]> as it's ARM/XScale with USB Jan 28 15:12:48 jon1012: about: javascript: I think answer is yes, I have seen webkit mentioned Jan 28 15:14:28 [g2]: btw - how much does Loft costs? Jan 28 15:14:37 <[g2]> $350 Jan 28 15:14:48 <[g2]> plus shipping Jan 28 15:15:15 +22% VAT ;( Jan 28 15:15:56 What's a Loft? Jan 28 15:16:21 router/nas Jan 28 15:16:28 Ahh Jan 28 15:16:56 I'm searching for small machine which will be able to work as BT AP and printserver Jan 28 15:17:34 hrw: What about the nslu2 that rwhitby is working on? Jan 28 15:17:37 <[g2]> hrw the nslu2 Jan 28 15:17:45 [g2]: ;) Jan 28 15:18:04 it will probably be this Jan 28 15:18:18 MokoSlug sounds nice Jan 28 15:18:20 nslu2+hub+pendrive+bt Jan 28 15:18:30 http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-01-28.gif Jan 28 15:18:47 <[g2]> hrw I'm trying to find out what's inside the new Airport extreme Jan 28 15:18:56 <[g2]> it's got 4 ports + USB Jan 28 15:19:09 <[g2]> and does 802.11n and A/B/G bands Jan 28 15:19:19 <[g2]> and it's 1/2 the cost of a Loft Jan 28 15:19:57 aloril2: ok thx :) Jan 28 15:19:59 closed sourced? Jan 28 15:19:59 <[g2]> there's not a guy on the planet that loves the Loft more than me, but that doesn't make for huge sales volumes :) Jan 28 15:20:22 <[g2]> hrw until open firmware is written for it :) Jan 28 15:20:44 <[g2]> the Loft it all open firmware Jan 28 15:29:28 [g2]: I was about closed source of airport Jan 28 15:29:56 does anyone know if there is a vmware image with openembedded configured? Jan 28 15:30:16 ajturner: Not yet, but maybe later if someone puts that together :) Jan 28 15:30:33 right - was wondering if anyone had yet before I put in the effort ;) Jan 28 15:30:38 I'll send a ping out on devel Jan 28 15:31:08 ajturner: can vmware boot qemu images? Jan 28 15:31:14 not sure Jan 28 15:32:04 hrw: you can convert the disk images to vmware format Jan 28 15:32:19 hrw: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/10/26/vmware-player-windows-xp.html Jan 28 15:32:32 do you have the qemu image? I haven't grabbed it yet Jan 28 15:32:36 man qemu-img Jan 28 15:33:18 essentially: qemu-img create -f vmdk imagename.vmdk nG, where n is the size of the disk image you want to create Jan 28 16:37:51 Yay, after wrong email address yesterday, I got my neo winning notice today. Kudos to FIC. Jan 28 16:39:35 well done stefan_schmidt :) Jan 28 16:41:06 hmm Jan 28 16:41:17 * moo_tang_clan doesn't like that the dates on planet openmoko are in flash(!) Jan 28 16:41:36 moo_tang_clan: thx Jan 28 16:41:41 moo_tang_clan: Why in flash? Jan 28 16:41:45 moo_tang_clan: there is a flash there? Jan 28 16:41:51 wow. I thought dates are just missing =) Jan 28 16:42:11 given the flash url says 'sifr' in it, I assume this is someone wanting a fancy font for the dates Jan 28 16:42:33 stefan_schmidt: re: openstreetmap, it would be cool to tag streets/waypoints as you map Jan 28 16:42:43 stefan_schmidt: e.g., with voice recordings maybe? Jan 28 16:42:57 I agree that you couldn't realistically do it "passively" without a lot of work later Jan 28 16:43:02 It would be neat to map cellular signal strength data onto openstreetmap. Jan 28 16:43:19 css is borked on p.o.o Jan 28 16:43:24 moo_tang_clan: Take a look at http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas/OpenStreetMap Jan 28 16:43:33 And add your Ideas there Jan 28 16:43:46 alphaone: heh, your're faster then me. Jan 28 16:43:52 dduardo: Yeah, that would be cool Jan 28 16:43:54 Also once wifi is integrated into the neo you can do the same Jan 28 16:44:02 You map out hotspots you can go to Jan 28 16:44:11 heh Jan 28 16:44:15 those are some good ideas, though Jan 28 16:44:46 ~lart planet.openmoko.org designer badly Jan 28 16:44:47 * apt whips planet.openmoko.org designer badly with a wet and grimy noodle just because Jan 28 16:44:47 And I want directions from a to b with full cellular / wifi coverage :-) Jan 28 16:45:14 LaF0rge: hi Jan 28 16:45:20 nk Jan 28 16:45:22 hi Jan 28 16:45:26 alphaone, yeah that would be great for long trips Jan 28 16:45:30 LaF0rge: can you kick planet.openmoko.org designer from me? Jan 28 16:45:34 All the POI are _very_ interesting. POI put together by community and make available via rss-feeds would be really cool. Jan 28 16:45:42 hi LaF0rge Jan 28 16:45:45 hrw: I've already complained about everything there is to complain. Jan 28 16:45:56 LaF0rge: date headers are forced to be flash. but I do not have flash... Jan 28 16:45:58 dduardo: Although the route could be considerably longer with that option :-) Jan 28 16:46:02 hrw: I've already fixed about a quarter of the issues myself Jan 28 16:46:12 hrw: WHAT????? Jan 28 16:46:28 LaF0rge:

Jan 28 16:46:28

January 28, 2007

Jan 28 16:46:36

this is NOT visible Jan 28 16:46:45 oh, they've changed the layout at some point today :( Jan 28 16:46:47 sifr.js drops flash in over it Jan 28 16:47:15 moo_tang_clan: i'll pass this on, this is completely unacceptable. Jan 28 16:47:34 sorry to be a troublemaker :) Jan 28 16:47:56 LaF0rge: thx Jan 28 16:48:11 flash and opensource does not mix Jan 28 16:49:31 LaF0rge: thx for mail. now all is clear Jan 28 16:50:06 have to go - cu all Jan 28 16:50:18 oh, they've changed the layout at some point today :( Jan 28 16:51:58 Since Google provides street data on their site, wouldn't it be easier to rip the data instead of going around with a GPS device trying to recreate it? Jan 28 16:54:44 dduardo: no, you can't, because the google data is a. copyrighted, b. not necessarily accurate Jan 28 16:54:47 dduardo: Google prohibits that use Jan 28 16:55:47 I believe if we get the OSM app for the OpenMoko right that could really take off. Jan 28 16:56:02 * LaF0rge has written a _serious_ LART to those web designers. They even removed all my fixes from the stylesheet again. this is intolerable. Jan 28 16:56:49 dduardo: google does license that data, so ripping the data would be copyright infringement :( Jan 28 16:57:54 I'm not saying take the images, but generate waypoints based on the images that can then be turned into a map Jan 28 16:58:05 That's basically what your doing with GPS anyway Jan 28 16:58:17 dduardo: it's not, because the google maps have 'fake' info implanted Jan 28 16:58:29 dduardo: if you copy that data, they know you copied their site, and that's a copyirght infringement Jan 28 16:59:23 moo_tang_clan: how do you copyright the fact that some street is located at such and so co-ordinate? Jan 28 16:59:41 dduardo: in the EU, that's called "database right" Jan 28 16:59:50 collections of facts have "database rights" which are like copyright Jan 28 17:00:16 counter Jan 28 17:00:17 1 week, 6 days 06:28:29 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 4 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 1 day for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 28 17:00:36 man, 1 week and 6 days before they're shipped Jan 28 17:00:39 feels like forever Jan 28 17:01:02 Devices only for selected developers? Won't everybody be able to order them? Jan 28 17:01:05 hey mickey; Jan 28 17:01:09 that's a week later Jan 28 17:01:27 when they're in the wild in 13 days we'll get pictures and much more information Jan 28 17:01:51 That's the 1 month and 1 week and 4 days thing? Jan 28 17:01:55 the openmoko devs are way to busy to satiate our need for information Jan 28 17:02:07 so 13 days and that responsibility will be more distributed Jan 28 17:02:50 why dont just open the source to all developers? Jan 28 17:03:01 rd: that will happen in 13 days. Jan 28 17:03:17 noidd, nah, only selected ppl Jan 28 17:03:27 no, sources to everyone in 13 days. Jan 28 17:03:29 It says for all developers. Jan 28 17:03:35 hardware to selected people then Jan 28 17:03:42 hardware to anyone 1 month after Jan 28 17:03:51 ah, i didn't read it carefully :) Jan 28 17:03:58 rd__: first, you can't keep GPL code to be open 'for selected developers' :) Jan 28 17:04:15 hardware to anyone? Jan 28 17:04:20 couldnt be true :p Jan 28 17:04:26 yes you can dottedmag although I don't want to get into a licensing discussion :-) Jan 28 17:04:47 noidd: could you point to the URL then? Jan 28 17:04:48 dottedmag, probably some kind of NDA agreement :p Jan 28 17:05:04 rd__: I think it's incompatible with GPL Jan 28 17:05:31 dotted: GPL basically says if you distro binaries to have to distro code. If you modify a GPL app for your own use you don't have to share those mods. Jan 28 17:05:48 You don't have to, but you are free to. Jan 28 17:05:55 but will all the code be released under GPL? Jan 28 17:06:00 dotted: or if you sell those mods to someone else in binary form, you have to give them the sources Jan 28 17:06:04 noidd: if you're shared code to someone, you can't prevent further sharing. Jan 28 17:06:44 if you dual licence it you can. Ok, enough on licensing - that's mailing list fodder Jan 28 17:06:51 :) Jan 28 17:07:52 I am in such a good mood Jan 28 17:08:06 I don't think anything can bring me down. Jan 28 17:13:05 heh Jan 28 17:13:08 that's the spriti Jan 28 17:13:12 spirit, even Jan 28 17:13:26 noidd: well... not even an announce taht openmoko has been canceled? :p Jan 28 17:15:49 mickeyl: spriti is nice... :) Jan 28 17:16:07 hehe Jan 28 17:16:10 l4rs: They made commitments to ship devices via email. They can't stop now :-) Jan 28 17:16:51 alphaone: what if their factory explodes? :p Jan 28 17:17:30 Then I'll blame you :-P Jan 28 17:17:40 I'm guessing they're probably off the assembly line by now Jan 28 17:26:11 now we have date headers again Jan 28 17:26:19 [on the planet] Jan 28 17:26:41 yeah... doubled dates one html, one flash... Jan 28 17:27:04 re Jan 28 17:27:13 dduardo: wikipedia: fake street Jan 28 17:27:29 LaF0rge: thx Jan 28 17:27:53 I hope mickeyl gets his before the first batch of phase0 Jan 28 17:27:56 it's only right :-) Jan 28 17:28:01 darn, yeah Jan 28 17:28:07 all those broken prototypes Jan 28 17:28:13 and you guys get the shiny production phones Jan 28 17:28:15 *sigh* Jan 28 17:28:20 hrw: there is no article Jan 28 17:28:20 heh Jan 28 17:28:36 LaF0rge has a prototype in a real case tho right? Jan 28 17:28:52 mickeyl: they should ship yours a few days early Jan 28 17:28:52 There's "Fake Streets Hats" Jan 28 17:29:38 let's say ... he has a case, yes Jan 28 17:29:43 * mickeyl hopes it's not the final though Jan 28 17:29:43 :D Jan 28 17:29:58 dduardo: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Copyright_Easter_Eggs Jan 28 17:30:11 dduardo: this one describe exactly Jan 28 17:30:58 Ah well, gotta run Jan 28 17:31:02 another show run to do Jan 28 17:31:31 http://www.unixfu.com/Photo_012607_001.jpg Jan 28 17:31:42 http://www.unixfu.com/Photo_012607_003.jpg Jan 28 17:31:50 hrw: I understand now. Jan 28 17:31:50 one is of the show i'm running sound for Jan 28 17:31:53 cool, have fun noidd Jan 28 17:32:04 the other is the latest piece of hardware i've been putting together Jan 28 17:34:13 I wonder if there will be any hardware revisions betweek p0 and p2 Jan 28 17:34:20 I'm guessing we're hoping not :-) Jan 28 17:34:30 or p1 and p2 Jan 28 17:35:21 hrw: The US Geological Services seems to provide maps that can be copied. http://nmviewogc.cr.usgs.gov/viewer.htm Jan 28 17:35:46 dduardo: But that's "only" for the US :-( Jan 28 17:35:49 "information presented on this website is considered public information (unless otherwise noted) and may be distributed or copied" Jan 28 17:36:09 dduardo: I do not care about .us Jan 28 17:36:55 Doesn't your govenment have a department of the interior that handles this type of stuff Jan 28 17:37:25 dduardo: In .de all the maps cost money :-( Jan 28 17:37:52 governments like getting money Jan 28 17:38:11 What about the library? Don't they have public records of street layout? I know I can go to the library and get this information in the US. Jan 28 17:38:22 licensing map-data is one of them. Jan 28 17:38:42 iirc, uk has free for personal use Jan 28 17:38:56 dduardo: you will get map which someone created. Jan 28 17:39:24 dduardo: who will warrant that there are no fake streets on it? Jan 28 17:40:18 Sure, unless you actually go out and verify all the streets Jan 28 17:42:13 so, is openmoko just the software for this neo1973 phone, or is it a deeper relationship? Jan 28 17:42:40 openmoko is software platform Jan 28 17:42:50 neo1973 is first phone using this platform Jan 28 17:42:54 aha Jan 28 17:43:27 Elrond: where are you from? Jan 28 17:49:06 how is the project progressing? Jan 28 17:50:54 Ouch: $1,685.00 for 27 DVDs of high res map data Jan 28 17:51:11 And that's for 1 county Jan 28 17:51:53 * fluffs hugs spamassassin Jan 28 17:52:08 I guess if you want the high res images you have to pay for it. Otherwise your are stuck with the free low res images Jan 28 17:53:26 how high res is high res in this context? 1m/pixel? Jan 28 17:53:49 pffff Jan 28 17:54:00 you can get 15cm/pixel with quickbird imagery Jan 28 17:54:16 oh, nice ;) Jan 28 17:54:23 if you pay a bit extra they even point it to the area you want Jan 28 17:54:51 Not sure, but it is in color and from 2006 Jan 28 18:14:37 re: US street data, apparently they have something called the "tiger" database that contains street data in vector format. It is freely distributable, but not sure if they have it downloadable somewhere. Unfortunately, last I heard it doesn't contain one-way street info which would be required for routing purposes. Jan 28 18:15:13 tiger can be downloaded freely Jan 28 18:15:19 it is a bit big iirc Jan 28 18:18:23 So you would either have to use it as a source material and convert it into a compressed format, or grab as needed from a public server. Jan 28 18:21:50 street names are also not labeled in TIGER Jan 28 19:36:00 hi guys Jan 28 19:36:30 just found this cool project .... and I'm wondering, is there exact release day for this Neo phone? i'm decided to buy it :) Jan 28 19:38:17 counter Jan 28 19:38:17 1 week, 6 days 03:50:28 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 4 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 1 day for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 28 19:38:22 i think i 'll stole one =) Jan 28 19:38:55 7 months :( Jan 28 19:39:26 but atleast 1 month for developers ... but how do you actually develop for it without hw? is there any emulator available? Jan 28 19:40:12 they develop with the hardware they can buy in one month ;) Jan 28 19:40:32 ah ok, got it Jan 28 19:40:43 will it be available in EU that time? or in US? Jan 28 19:40:51 worldwide Jan 28 19:40:59 cool Jan 28 19:41:16 worldwide means, in those 7 months, but I guess I can order it somewhere online Jan 28 19:41:40 can't wait to get it and replace my phone with this ... idea supporting SIM cards is just cool Jan 28 19:42:31 i will try to port some light version of Pixel (www.kanzelsberger.com) to openmoko Jan 28 19:42:35 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html here you will find all important information... Jan 28 19:42:39 it might come handy when there's camera available Jan 28 19:42:53 l4rs, thanks, going to read it Jan 28 19:57:27 noidd, saw my reply to you earlier ? Jan 28 19:57:32 (I asked a counter-question) Jan 28 20:04:25 Hi. Jan 28 20:25:20 hmm i just noticed Neo won't have WiFi Jan 28 20:25:55 are there plans to have e-mail client and www browser there? by using what connectivity? GSM? Jan 28 20:27:19 Kaco: GSM, or ip over bluetooth or usb :) Jan 28 20:27:37 and in case it's unclear, GPRS is also included Jan 28 20:27:37 The browser isn't decided yet. Maybe webkit Jan 28 20:27:42 ah ok Jan 28 20:27:54 xkr47: *nod*, my bad :) Jan 28 20:27:59 internet over GSM is usually pricey Jan 28 20:28:12 CM, I don't know if GPRS == GSM so I just thought to be specific :) Jan 28 20:28:15 i hoped to use it in cafes or so to read mails and browse web Jan 28 20:28:27 No wifi in version 1 Jan 28 20:28:28 xkr47, GPRS is some extension to GSM? Jan 28 20:28:36 CM, ok so they plan WiFi for v2? :) Jan 28 20:28:44 It's package data transport over the gsm network Jan 28 20:28:50 CM, since with iPhone WiFi sounds like a very good and handy feature Jan 28 20:29:08 Kaco: Probably.. They said they'll take "our" wishes into account Jan 28 20:29:11 v2 will most likely not be for a year after v1 launch though Jan 28 20:29:12 And almost everyone wants wifi Jan 28 20:29:15 CM, nice! :) Jan 28 20:29:29 but but Jan 28 20:29:40 the first version is more to get hackers & developers started Jan 28 20:29:55 not to say it isn't usable for anyone else, sorry Jan 28 20:30:02 yeah Jan 28 20:30:14 i like their idea to not fork any of those libs used Jan 28 20:30:21 so you can port almost any X11 based app Jan 28 20:30:33 but wifi couldn't make it to version 1 for multiple reasons so they thought having a phone is better than having no phone and no clear path for wifi Jan 28 20:30:37 Yes, and any gtk Jan 28 20:30:43 yeah Jan 28 20:30:48 Kaco, yeah it rules really.. maintainability++ Jan 28 20:30:53 yep :) Jan 28 20:31:01 and as I can see I can use freepascal for development Jan 28 20:31:08 hope CPU is ARM :) Jan 28 20:31:09 CM, yeah luckily most gtk apps work fine with gtk 2.6 Jan 28 20:31:26 Kaco, it sure is :) Jan 28 20:31:28 xkr47, can't you just compile newer GTK if you want? Jan 28 20:31:42 Kaco, yeah but I think it was maybe slower Jan 28 20:31:46 ok Jan 28 20:31:47 Kaco, because of the cairo stuff.. Jan 28 20:31:54 Kaco, but I might be wrong Jan 28 20:31:56 hmm anyway what about RAM/flash? how much can you store there? Jan 28 20:32:02 yeah cario is slow without hw accel Jan 28 20:32:04 I guess they are waiting for cairo to get better arm-optimization Jan 28 20:32:17 or maybe getting better hw support for v2 :) Jan 28 20:32:23 hi, exists any video presentation of the neo1973 smartphone in action ? Jan 28 20:32:30 Kaco, check the wiki in the topic Jan 28 20:32:31 epsino: Not yet Jan 28 20:32:43 xkr47, ok :) Jan 28 20:32:46 CM: thank you Jan 28 20:32:59 But there's a youtube interview with Sean holding a prototype ;) Jan 28 20:33:14 yes, i saw it Jan 28 20:33:16 yeah but that phone was turned off :) Jan 28 20:33:24 i'm wondering about those screenshots Jan 28 20:33:31 :) Jan 28 20:33:33 are those just mockups? (looks like so) Jan 28 20:33:49 i saw the screenshoots too, but i need more !!! jeje Jan 28 20:33:55 epsino, :) Jan 28 20:34:06 epsino, :) Jan 28 20:34:30 counter Jan 28 20:34:31 1 week, 6 days 02:54:15 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 4 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 1 day for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 28 20:34:32 what is the kernel base of openmoko ? Jan 28 20:34:45 epsino: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html Jan 28 20:35:01 (2.6.17.4 btw) Jan 28 20:35:09 btw, ftw Jan 28 20:35:33 hmm iphone is way smaller and even has wifi Jan 28 20:35:33 * CM likes tlas ;) Jan 28 20:35:39 no idea how they managed to do that Jan 28 20:35:48 I guess they won't even try 2.6.18+ before launch.. usb problems sounds like "ok, not our primary issue" :) Jan 28 20:36:00 Kaco: It's be suprised if it has good reception Jan 28 20:36:30 CM, yeah maybe ... but bigger display (worse resolution) and 4/8GB of storage! Jan 28 20:36:39 cm, tlas ?-) Jan 28 20:36:46 Three Letter Acronyms Jan 28 20:36:47 :) Jan 28 20:36:49 CM, but thing that Cingular contract sucks .. and since I'm in EU I don't even know what the hell is CIngular :) Jan 28 20:37:12 Kaco: I'm in .se, and I've never had a contract with any operator Jan 28 20:37:18 lol!! Jan 28 20:37:24 I had forgotten that acronym already Jan 28 20:37:44 we actually had that explained on a school course ;-) Jan 28 20:37:57 xkr47: ffs ;) Jan 28 20:38:05 not that one though ;) Jan 28 20:38:22 CM, well I had contract for 2 years, but it's gone and I'm free :) Jan 28 20:38:32 hmm, how much did the iphone 2-year contract cost? Jan 28 20:38:44 I bet there will be a lot of pics of the Neo in 2 weeks when all the devs get their hw Jan 28 20:38:45 I think someone should add that to the iphone vs neo chart @ unoff wiki Jan 28 20:39:05 CM, yeah :) Jan 28 20:39:10 xkr47: I read today that the iPhone isn't subsidized by Cingular at all Jan 28 20:39:17 That's why it's so expensive Jan 28 20:39:19 CM, the picture will probably include the owner's hands & happy faces also :D Jan 28 20:39:24 pictures* Jan 28 20:39:26 xkr47: Hehe Jan 28 20:39:43 CM, yeah.. but what will the 2-year contract cost..? Jan 28 20:39:50 based on the base software description, do you think that port current java vm for linux to openmoko will be crazy ? Jan 28 20:40:06 anything on openmoko is bound to be crazy :) Jan 28 20:40:14 (Score 5, funny) Jan 28 20:40:43 epsino: I hope you mean the j2me vm Jan 28 20:41:03 I wonder how big minimal jre-1.6 is Jan 28 20:41:48 CM, i think that J2ME/CLDC is very small for a big thing such as openmoko ! Jan 28 20:41:59 JavaVM would enable things like Google Maps Mobile (google.com/gmm) to do car/bike/walking navigation. However the problem keeps to be the price of data transferred... Jan 28 20:42:22 Well - assuming it has enough horsepower. Jan 28 20:42:34 Which it may well not. Jan 28 20:42:42 I'm using gmail and opera mini on my se k750i, and it works pretty good Jan 28 20:42:47 especially gmail Jan 28 20:42:52 Of course it will have enough horsepower Jan 28 20:43:11 i found a project, http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~dat/java/project/jvm/index_en.html Jan 28 20:43:21 is a port of jvm for pocket pc Jan 28 20:43:31 epsino: J2ME CLDC/CDC is necessary anyway for the vast majority of mobile phone games. Jan 28 20:43:31 * SpeedEvil wanders over to /gmm to do some benchmarking. Jan 28 20:45:27 Stephmw, you are right, but only with J2ME CLDC. There is a big lack of CDC implementations so, is very difficult to found a CDC game Jan 28 20:45:31 or application Jan 28 20:45:32 Oh well, no way as I don't have a treo. Jan 28 20:46:37 epsino: Agreed - but if we can do CLDC, CDC isn't much more to add Jan 28 20:47:53 mmmmm, CLDC to CDC is a big step Jan 28 20:48:06 do you know any linux implementation for CLDC ? Jan 28 20:48:32 Sun's RI already runs on arm linux, just needs a binding for the UI Jan 28 20:48:50 which someone is working on Jan 28 20:48:56 MIDP on SDL Jan 28 20:49:19