**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 29 02:59:59 2007 Jan 29 03:10:45 noidd: It's half past 4, sleep! Jan 29 03:12:39 It's only 22:43 here. Jan 29 03:13:56 Oh so you can wait. Jan 29 03:14:38 * bhima wants to play around with openmoko now. Jan 29 03:14:45 who doesn't? Jan 29 03:14:57 Most people have never heard of it. :) Jan 29 03:15:31 they don't count Jan 29 03:15:44 counter Jan 29 03:15:45 1 week, 5 days 20:12:58 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 3 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 29 03:15:52 * thedaniel bites nails Jan 29 03:33:52 impatience Jan 29 03:42:23 Enticement. Jan 29 03:43:38 Cry boy cry. The eye of the tiger! Don't ... don't you want me? Jan 29 03:44:41 80s rocked. Sometimes I wished I was born 10 years earlier. Jan 29 04:58:53 counter Jan 29 04:58:53 1 week, 5 days 18:29:49 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 3 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 29 05:01:17 How does one get on the selected developer list...? Jan 29 05:02:57 bhima: By both being a known developer, and sending a mail to the address on the openmoko.com webpage Jan 29 05:05:26 Is the site down? I can't get to it. Jan 29 05:07:58 bhima: i think they've made the list already tho Jan 29 05:08:05 noidd, yeah Jan 29 05:10:16 Anybody got hardware yet? Huh? Huh? Jan 29 05:12:42 PirateHead: don't worry... as soon as developers start getting them, there will be plenty of them gloating and showing them off. :) Jan 29 05:12:44 PirateHead: Nope. My OS just runs, psychically, in the ether. Jan 29 05:13:19 Bipolar: I'm anxious to see more screens, reviews, etc. Jan 29 05:13:47 me too Jan 29 05:14:07 I'm going to get the code running in an emulator as soon as it's released Jan 29 05:14:14 bhima: are you playing Duke Nukem 3D? I hear it's also running psychically in the ether. Jan 29 05:14:40 * aloril2 remembers seeing mention that shipping happens at Monday 2007-02-12 (though source should be released Sunday 2007-02-11) Jan 29 05:15:16 this kind of thing reminds me so much of the Zaurus release :) Jan 29 05:15:19 that is, Duke Nukem Forever..... Jan 29 05:15:20 PirateHead: I've tried it, but Ir eally prefer DukeNukem For^WWhenever Jan 29 05:16:11 I wanna see it running on my 770 and controlling a bluetooth phone. Jan 29 06:00:16 Morning :) Jan 29 06:07:46 Hello. Jan 29 06:14:50 Is there plans to put cammera in open moko ? Jan 29 06:16:35 Maybe in future phones, but not in version 1 Jan 29 06:17:02 cameras make more sense for wifi phones. you aren't going to do videoconferencing over GPRS.. Jan 29 06:17:36 cjb: Works pretty good on 3G phones too, I've worked some on that Jan 29 06:17:51 sure. but moko isn't 3G. Jan 29 06:18:05 Nope, not v1 :) Jan 29 06:18:37 I really wonder what kind of hardware they can get for the next Neo phone Jan 29 06:23:47 When did you expect next version of openmoko ? Jan 29 06:30:58 krassswr: The announcement (see topic) says about a year after v1 Jan 29 06:31:17 :( Jan 29 06:38:37 Wht did you will say about "Linux Mobile Foundation". Thay say that will write specifications fot open api. What will openmoko do ? Jan 29 06:40:36 krassswr: OpenMoko will probably laugh at them. That's some kind of "members only" business initiaive group. OpenMoko is more of an open community effort Jan 29 06:40:59 s/That's/LiMo is/ Jan 29 06:41:00 CM meant: krassswr: OpenMoko will probably laugh at them. LiMo is some kind of "members only" business initiaive group. OpenMoko is more of an open community effort Jan 29 06:41:46 :) thanks for answer. Jan 29 06:42:21 No problem. I'm not a dev or so, but I read and listen to what they say. ;) Jan 29 06:46:25 CM: I like open source. I'm useing Debian. But I think that for first phone with openmoko will be dificult to compare with other phones on same price. Jan 29 06:47:13 krassswr: With the Neo1973 (The first phone that uses OpenMoko) you will get a really good phone for the price Jan 29 06:47:34 The screen and processing power is very very good for 350$ without a contract Jan 29 06:48:06 :) I'm waiting to see it in market in Bulgaria. Jan 29 06:48:36 counter Jan 29 06:48:36 1 week, 5 days 16:40:06 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 3 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 29 06:49:26 :) Jan 29 06:50:41 krassswr: So you can order it online in March if you want :) Jan 29 06:51:44 CM: Did you hear other manifactures plan to create phones using openmoko or FIC is the only in the moment ? Jan 29 06:52:25 FIC is the only one now, but the OpenMoko platform should be possible to port to other phones too Jan 29 07:43:52 morning Jan 29 07:44:08 morning Jan 29 08:27:30 bah, despite specific instructions on friday, boss did not have board ready this morning Jan 29 08:27:47 and hadn't told the office manager we where going to be in early Jan 29 09:20:03 counter Jan 29 09:20:03 1 week, 5 days 14:08:38 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 3 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 29 09:24:50 :-) Jan 29 09:33:34 hi Mac Jan 29 09:41:26 hrw|work: hi hrw :-) Jan 29 10:02:07 hi hrw|work Jan 29 10:04:24 hi greentux Jan 29 10:12:49 Nice, free pdf: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2782821882.html Jan 29 10:13:31 I'd like to use the Neo for reading Jan 29 10:45:36 hrw|work - I'm from germany. But I will probably be in Poznan in april. Jan 29 10:46:44 Elrond: want to meet? Jan 29 10:47:19 hrw|work - We could, yeah. ;) Jan 29 10:48:36 Elrond: ok. Jan 29 10:49:21 hrw|work: He just wants to play with your Neo :D Jan 29 10:50:06 TRIsoft - Of course. ;o) Jan 29 10:50:46 Elrond: If you want to play with it earlier, visit us in Hannover ;-) Jan 29 10:52:14 TRIsoft: one user promised me cab from trainstation to airport during my fosdem travel just to have a possibility to look at neo ;D Jan 29 10:52:38 *giggle* Jan 29 10:52:53 hrw|work: *G* Jan 29 10:56:03 TRIsoft - Hmm, a 4 hours train travel just to play with the Neo? ;) Jan 29 10:57:07 and ? what ? you're still thinking about it ? :P Jan 29 10:58:08 Anyone near Adelaide, South Australia is welcome to drop into the LinuxSA march meeting where I will be demoing the Neo ... Jan 29 10:58:34 * XorA will whore his Neo for a plane ticket from UK to FOSDEM :-) Jan 29 11:00:06 adelaide eh, only 800k's Jan 29 11:01:01 XorA: bah, I'm likely to train it from London Jan 29 11:01:41 Stephmw: I hadnt considered that option, whats the price/time like Jan 29 11:01:52 Hi, does anybody know whether the GSM baseband chip in the Neo is similar to the ones used in HTC Alpine, Blueangel, Himalaya and Magician? They have some TI GPRS chips that run the Nucleus OS on an arm7tdmi core. Jan 29 11:02:58 XorA: likely a little more dear than the plane, but more convenient (arriving in central brussels rather than the airport) Jan 29 11:03:20 XorA: where are you in the UK? Jan 29 11:03:23 Stephmw: hmm, + the 50 quid from scotland to london, probably a bit much Jan 29 11:03:34 yegads Jan 29 11:03:40 XorA: yeah, take the plane :) Jan 29 11:03:42 * XorA should swim Jan 29 11:04:20 swim with neo Jan 29 11:07:52 hi all Jan 29 11:07:56 hey! Jan 29 11:08:22 Hi stefan_schmidt Jan 29 11:08:56 hmm, planet.openmoko.org is slow. My blog entries from last night still don't show up. Jan 29 11:09:15 TRIsoft - Braunschweig is a little cheaper for me, so I probably could take a look at stefan_schmidt's neo ;o) Jan 29 11:09:44 * rwhitby has realised what is missing from most messages on the community mailing list - three words - "In my opinion ..." Jan 29 11:09:44 stefan_schmidt: Good blog entries though, and I agree with the sync:ing part. :-) Jan 29 11:10:00 Elrond: np, just drop me a line. Jan 29 11:10:17 CM: thanks Jan 29 11:10:20 * CM avoids planet rss-feeds Jan 29 11:10:26 Elrond: We should create a map with "I have a Neo" spots ... Jan 29 11:10:44 TRIsoft - Yeah. ;) Jan 29 11:11:00 * stefan_schmidt should do a analyze of his apache logs at some time. Never done. Jan 29 11:11:19 TRIsoft: Could be funny Jan 29 11:11:21 TRIsoft - Just some .gpx with all the coords. ;) Jan 29 11:11:38 * Stephmw hits stefan_schmidt's weblog Jan 29 11:11:42 TRIsoft: Shortest distance to the neo next to you. Jan 29 11:12:06 *G* Jan 29 11:12:06 That could be a cool app Jan 29 11:12:13 I mean later on too Jan 29 11:12:27 I'm in Darmstadt. So who's nearest to me? ;o) Jan 29 11:12:40 Find nearest neo with the "locate me" program on. Jan 29 11:13:17 Ah, even alphaone started blogging. I pester him more then one year for it. :) http://www.totalueberwachung.de/blog/ Jan 29 11:13:22 CM - Oh, you mean with live update? ;) Jan 29 11:13:26 pity I wont have a Neo for Edlug this week Jan 29 11:13:42 Elrond: Exactly. It's a gps on it, use it :-) Jan 29 11:13:56 Doesn't cost much to upload some gps coordinates via gprs Jan 29 11:14:09 tihi ;) Jan 29 11:15:27 * stefan_schmidt is not sure if he like the idea everybody know his current gps posizion by posting it to the net. Jan 29 11:15:51 stefan_schmidt: I meant is as something you can turn on and off of course Jan 29 11:15:57 :-) Jan 29 11:16:52 stefan_schmidt - Well, instead we check the gsm logs of your provider ;o) Jan 29 11:17:03 CM: Right at least that. On the one side i like the idea on the other I don't feeling comfortable with to much infos from me in the net. Jan 29 11:17:23 That's the reason why I only blog about technical stuff, nothing private Jan 29 11:17:24 sounds like a find someone to mug service Jan 29 11:17:36 stefan_schmidt: Totally agree. There's always logs everywhere, google caches and such Jan 29 11:18:05 XorA: Nice that you can spot a good opportunity! ;) Jan 29 11:20:21 stefan_schmidt: But it wasn't because of you pestering me or I would have started a lot sooner. Jan 29 11:21:52 But with my involvement in openezx and openmoko I just can't resist the urge any more. :-) Jan 29 11:22:40 *G* Jan 29 11:25:37 alphaone: heh Jan 29 11:32:25 So stefan_schmidt is nearest to me? ;) Jan 29 11:33:19 Elrond: Don't know. Maybe your neighbor also gets a freebie :D Jan 29 11:34:04 Elrond: alphaone and Shoragan are dirctly in Braunschweig. I'm in a town near to it (27 km). But I'm in BS more or less every day. Study and work. Jan 29 11:34:18 * Shoragan waves Jan 29 11:34:48 Hi Shoragan Jan 29 11:35:04 Braunschweig sounds like the neo-center of germany ;) Jan 29 11:35:35 heh Jan 29 11:35:51 Elrond: I would guess Berlin has a chance to top it Jan 29 11:36:24 I think the name sounds weird. Brown silence or what? (Sorry, was 10 years ago I last studied any german) Jan 29 11:36:54 Yep. Also weird for Germans :D Jan 29 11:37:09 I prefer a hangover in Hannover :-) Jan 29 11:37:35 *g* Jan 29 11:38:32 :-) Jan 29 11:38:43 Alright, got to go to work now. Jan 29 11:38:45 Cya Jan 29 11:38:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswik_(onomastics) Jan 29 11:40:52 pH5: Thanks. Couldn't help thinking of schweigen first.. ;) Jan 29 12:26:48 Nokia 770 peeps: do you get spammed with vCards/hCards over wifi in public places, or bluejacked through Bluetooth? The Neo1 doesn't have wifi but we'll have additional sources of spam through phone voicemail and SMS, and this area will probably grow and get worse. Jan 29 12:28:06 Also some great group apps, like event vCards directly tying into GPS-based tracking etc, should be fun. But there's also potential for abuse. Jan 29 12:28:26 Morgret: hasn't happened to me yet - but it sure is going to be a growing trend - I'd say the default needs to be not to accept anything from outside sources without the user somehow signalling he is willing Jan 29 12:28:47 Morgret: like the bluetooth applet in gnome - you can make your computer discoverable for 3 minutes, after which it automatically turnsit off Jan 29 12:29:07 Hadaka: yeah. It's bound to happen as soon as direct marketting get their teeth into it. Jan 29 12:29:26 there was something in slashdot recently about that Jan 29 12:32:01 Funnily enough, Second Life brought this to mind, because people can IM you a placecard and you can just port to the specified location. While we don't have teleports yet (:-), the GPS and our feet give us a poor man's version. ;-) Jan 29 12:38:41 tihi. eventcard with the gps coords of a black hole ;o) Jan 29 12:38:48 (that's abuse then ;) ) Jan 29 12:38:54 lol Jan 29 12:39:25 More seriously ... with the coordinates of a group of muggers. :-( Jan 29 12:40:06 Yeah. :-( Jan 29 12:40:42 yes, that seems to be the more realistic abuse option, considering that gps is limited to Earth Jan 29 12:40:54 It is? Jan 29 12:40:56 :P Jan 29 12:41:07 And ner orbits. Jan 29 12:41:12 Near orbits. Jan 29 12:41:22 You can use it out to around the moon. Jan 29 12:41:41 But the position accuracy - especially distance to earth goes bad. Jan 29 12:42:04 SpeedEvil - You'll try that with the neo? ;o) Jan 29 12:42:05 I wonder whether the AMSAT community has GPS code that works outside of the GPS orbit. Jan 29 12:42:26 No, you'd need to tweak the positioning code, and put a largish antenna on it. Jan 29 12:42:59 I really doubt stock positioning code would lock on the moon, even with a large antenna pointed at earth. Jan 29 12:43:36 (the GPS satellites point the beam down at earth, but you can see satellites that are close to the horizon from where you are if you are in orbit. Jan 29 12:44:05 Hehe, I didn't mean that far out. The subtended angle would be too small there for positional accurace, I expect. Even if the signal were strong enough to use. Jan 29 12:44:34 The positioning isn't great - it is usable - remember you've got no ionospheric problems. Jan 29 12:45:13 We need the universal positioning initiative ;o) Jan 29 12:45:59 neo-v3 will have an upi-chip ;) Jan 29 12:46:21 yes; NASA needs to start sending out von Neumann probes to other systems immediately. So that they can provide positional data. Jan 29 12:46:50 Yeah, but very limited angular resolution. And remember that the doppler info is greatly reduced, because doppler from movement "overhead" decreases to zero with distance. Jan 29 12:48:59 mjr: and to ensure that good data is captured, those probes should be piloted by politicians. Oh, and lawyers. We need LOTS of those probes. :P Jan 29 12:49:41 Morgret - *lol* Jan 29 12:50:28 Douglas Adams got it right ... :-) Jan 29 12:51:19 Wasn't there some phone cleaning issue? Jan 29 12:51:22 Morgret, good idea, my man Jan 29 12:51:33 or woman, as the case may be as far as I know Jan 29 12:51:54 woman on irc? ;) Jan 29 12:52:20 Elrond: yeah, but that stemmed simply from insufficient tech. We'll just cover our phones in self-sterilizing nanomachines. :P Jan 29 12:52:42 Morgret - Ahh, okay. ;) Jan 29 12:52:56 Men, women? I thought everyone on the Internet was a dog. ;-) Jan 29 12:52:59 If you can get 1m positioning without the ionospheric error at 20000Km distance (earth-GPS), with only satellites near the horizon, then the dilution of precision at 20 times this distance means you've got 20m or so positioning. That's really not at all horrible, when there is no alternative. Jan 29 12:54:01 SpeedEvil: thinking about that Jan 29 12:54:18 mjr - You opened Morgret's secret gender. Now she will be flooded with apointments. ;o) Jan 29 12:54:20 It's _rather_ irrelevant to the neo though :) Jan 29 12:54:50 Elrond: I just pass them to my dog. Who is also online. Jan 29 12:54:55 what, no sponsorship deals yet with future Moon expeditions? Jan 29 12:55:35 202 nicks here, I'm guessing max 1 girl, but please prove me wrong. ;) Jan 29 12:55:37 mjr - Ahh, like "first linux phone on moon! Get a Neo now!" ;o) Jan 29 12:55:55 'course, I don't think there's GSM roaming on the Moon yet Jan 29 12:56:01 but boy, that'd be cool Jan 29 12:56:12 All you need is a pressurised container, and a USB moon lander. Jan 29 12:56:29 (self-powered) Jan 29 12:56:35 BT-on-moon ;) Jan 29 12:57:01 pressurised container? The neo does not work in vacuum?! Jan 29 12:57:18 Well the planets won't get GPS until the military starts wanting to bomb the place. Which I'm sure is already being planned. Jan 29 12:57:57 lol Jan 29 12:58:05 Morgret - galileo might be interested ;o) Jan 29 12:59:17 "Thanks to the planetary location system, our smart missiles can accurately be aimed at a spesific planet of our choosing, thus minimizing collateral damage" Jan 29 13:00:44 Elrond: given the makeup of the Galileo consortium, I think they're confused about who they want to bomb. Probably each other, and this just saves costs. :P Jan 29 13:01:08 mjr - *LOL* Jan 29 13:04:30 Re working in a vacuum ... components vary in that. I don't have figures, but anything manufactured in air and sealed hermetically but not armoured is simply going to pop in vacuum. Jan 29 13:04:35 I wonder, wethere we in openstreetmap should mark dangerous areas, so goto-"muggers"-eventcards can be warned upon ;o) Jan 29 13:05:21 * mjr marks the US as a "dangerous area" Jan 29 13:05:34 Morgret - Yep. Hmm, the only hermetically sealed component, I can think of, is the akku. Jan 29 13:05:43 mjr - :-) Jan 29 13:06:01 SIGs within OSM, why not. Just like there will probably be good food markers placed by gourmet SIGs. The important thing is that they be selectable as sets. Jan 29 13:06:53 "SIGs"? (my tla-memory is overloaded.) Jan 29 13:07:03 The cosmic radiation is also a problem for components. Sure, they may develop mutant powers like line-of-sight BT between the Moon and Earth, you do realize that it's, like, ten times more likely that they just fry at some point? Jan 29 13:07:03 Special Interest Group Jan 29 13:08:06 So the personal security SIG would populate the map with danger points, the good food SIG with restaurants, etc. You choose the set(s) viewable on the map. Jan 29 13:08:51 Morgret - Ahh. :-) Jan 29 13:09:06 I should add some pubs. ;o) Jan 29 13:09:19 Can also be done simply with tags on place markers. Jan 29 13:09:59 Morgret - That's, how it works currently. Jan 29 13:10:38 Cool Jan 29 13:11:21 mjr: van allen belts Jan 29 13:13:07 Ie. worse than just cosmic radiation, it gets channeled and heavily reinforced in the belts. The moon astronauts (lunatics?) sped through them, but even so got a dose. Jan 29 13:15:48 So, have any Phase 0 devs excluding the core ones received theirs yet, and posted pics? Jan 29 13:15:56 No. Jan 29 13:16:09 The announcement has been made by email as to who's gettingthem. Jan 29 13:16:34 Yeah, heard people say. No ETA though? Jan 29 13:16:43 counter Jan 29 13:16:43 1 week, 5 days 10:11:58 for source for all developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 1 week, 3 days for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info Jan 29 13:17:16 Though that's probably postage time. Jan 29 13:17:19 I mean ETA for receipt on Phase 0 devices by those notified. Jan 29 13:17:30 i'm actually glad the first batch is for select developers as i am switching jobs this month and have no money. :) Jan 29 13:17:43 Well, ETA'd likely be a week or so after they get posted. Jan 29 13:18:45 Zer0Her0_: also, they'll be under a lot of pressure. Phase 1 devs can be more relaxed, they pay for theirs so if they want to doss around, they're entitled to. ;-) Jan 29 13:19:08 exactly :-) Jan 29 13:19:19 * XorA chuckles at the idea of pics of the mess on his desk Jan 29 13:20:29 yeah, I probably don't have time to do anything really fancy with the device, so I'll happily pay for it to avoid any sense of obligation ;] Jan 29 13:21:23 tihi Jan 29 13:21:49 though I _would_ have the money _now_ ;P Jan 29 13:22:09 Well, place the money in a drawer? Jan 29 13:22:38 Other than an interest in using it and extending it for OSM, I don't yet have an fixed goals. Prolly mess with Bluetooth, get it working with my barcode scanner, etc. Jan 29 13:24:56 Morgret: BT barcode scanner? Jan 29 13:25:08 Morgret: With 2D barcode support? Jan 29 13:25:14 Mine is, yeah Jan 29 13:25:29 The Flic, a very popular one. Jan 29 13:25:48 Morgret - I'd be interested in your work on osm. :) (I'd be willing to help!) Jan 29 13:26:48 Not 2D barcodes, no. Stuff like PDF417 is very cool, but not particularly useful. Jan 29 13:27:05 Morgret: Sweet. I have done some research and coding on datamatrix encoding Jan 29 13:27:52 stefan_schmidt: funnily enough, that's one of the few really good uses of cameraphones :P Jan 29 13:28:43 Morgret: Right. This and OCR are the only use cases I have for a cellphone camera. :) Jan 29 13:28:52 indeed Jan 29 13:32:41 Document capture. Jan 29 13:32:53 Unfortunately, barcodes have a similar problem to GPS maps in practice: the barcode lookup repositories are either sparse and poor, or else they're good but commercial. Last I looked there wasn't an incremental community barcode lookup resource, that people could improve. Beyond ISBN, it's a mess. Jan 29 13:32:54 Even a modest camera and stitching. Jan 29 13:34:14 Sigh - I need a new font, or a less pervy brain. Read that earlier comment as "Dominatrix capture". Jan 29 13:34:29 lol Jan 29 13:36:39 SpeedEvil: I've not looked at stitchin images, but I needed it recently. Is there a good website on the topic? Jan 29 13:39:36 SpeedEvil - *lol* Jan 29 13:41:20 Well ... there's no doubt that sex sells. So perhaps SpeedEvil's brain intuitively found a way of selling more Neos .... Jan 29 13:42:46 *lol* Find the next *censored* using your neo. ;o) Jan 29 13:43:32 And of course Telus, the huge Canadian phone company, has just started selling pr0n. So it's on topic :P Jan 29 13:44:07 T'was on Slashdot yesterday. Jan 29 13:44:46 *hmm...* Jan 29 13:45:08 a Neo app that displays a porn image based on geolocation Jan 29 13:45:22 * Stephmw shudders Jan 29 13:45:30 killer app! Jan 29 13:45:37 mjr: 3 gay nightclubs in my area... I don't wanna know. Jan 29 13:45:56 we can customize, women raisin their burkas a tad for Saudi-Arabia Jan 29 13:46:18 * Stephmw hands mjr a flak jacket Jan 29 13:47:37 Well it's an open phone, it'll have whatever apps people want on it, not only those apps that meets someone's idea of political/social correctness. Jan 29 13:48:01 Obviously :P Jan 29 13:48:14 mjr - I hope, you don't live in that country currently? ;o) Jan 29 13:48:24 nah, Finland Jan 29 13:48:40 ahh, the country of mixed saunas Jan 29 13:48:51 it's all just fine here, unless you publish the picture of Mohammed, then the prime minister scolds you Jan 29 13:49:17 (hmm, Mohammed porn...) Jan 29 13:49:50 Morgret: absolutely - god knows, someone found a use for http://www.getjar.com/products/48/MyGirls Jan 29 13:49:53 I'm just full of ideas today Jan 29 13:50:33 Stephmw, ok, now it's certain that somebody'll port J2ME Jan 29 13:50:46 mjr: indeed... "Can handle multiple women" Jan 29 13:50:48 Stephmw: I'm not going to look that up. I've learned my lesson in the past :P Jan 29 13:51:01 Morgret: SFW link, honest Jan 29 13:51:18 yes, it's quite safe Jan 29 13:51:24 not very tasteful though Jan 29 13:51:31 tla-overflow-exception: SFW ;) Jan 29 13:51:56 Elrond: SFW: Safe-For-Work... NSFW: NOT-Safe-For-Work Jan 29 13:52:08 Ahh. ;) Jan 29 13:52:13 mjr: agreed Jan 29 13:52:13 I'm at work. ;o) Jan 29 13:52:25 mjr: although, I actually know a guy who found it of use Jan 29 13:52:52 <-- getting to the buffet now. ;) Jan 29 13:53:21 (but then, I'm one to talk about tastefulness) Jan 29 13:53:34 Now that you mention it, I had to code IRC TLAs into Festival to get the speech synth working nicely, which isn't a good way of doing it. Is there some TLA expansion app, or even better one that can expand to phonemes too? Jan 29 13:54:03 Forget the phonemes, just the words will do. Jan 29 13:54:12 Indeed, it's vital to expand trans lunar abort properly. Jan 29 13:54:19 Hahahaha Jan 29 13:54:35 Morgret: wtf Jan 29 13:54:42 What's wrong with going to words? Jan 29 13:55:45 Well, it's one of the fun things about TLAs, the fact that they're not 1:1, and overlap with common words or sounds. I always giggle when friends say thanks with "taa" on a channel ... because it comes out here as something quite different. :P Jan 29 13:57:43 Morgret: wtf has a file with mappings in /usr/share/misc/acronyms Jan 29 13:58:01 Just pronounce letters of two or fewer capitalised words in sequence? Jan 29 13:59:10 elara /home/alphaone # wtf is lol Jan 29 13:59:10 LOL: laughing out loud Jan 29 13:59:56 Morgret: it's "Ta" one a Jan 29 14:00:03 14:18 < Morgret> Well it's an open phone, it'll have whatever apps people want Jan 29 14:00:06 gah Jan 29 14:01:38 fkuffs: that's freedom :-) Jan 29 14:03:00 will the UI be better than Hildon/Nokia N800 ? Jan 29 14:03:06 ok, i'm leaving now Jan 29 14:03:18 It can be. Jan 29 14:03:32 The problem is what's 'better' will vary per user. Jan 29 14:03:36 SpeedEvil: can it be worth? Jan 29 14:03:47 worth? Jan 29 14:04:25 The development of the phone is not done yet - the ideal is to get a easy to use, powerful, extendable phone software suite. Jan 29 14:04:40 That can be setup differently for different users. Jan 29 14:04:59 If you find something especially annoying, it's probably going to be possible to change it. Jan 29 14:05:08 For you to change it. Jan 29 14:06:46 "done yet" isn't really a concept in an open phone. Mom and Dad will have a specific view of it as a fixed product ... but that's not really what it's about, might as well just buy a cheap contract phone. Jan 29 14:07:13 True. Jan 29 14:07:48 I think it's fair to say that it's 'done' when you can hand it to several users of different sorts and they don't find glaring problems with it. Improvement will of course continue. Jan 29 14:08:27 Also, we need the basic functionality so that sales to Mom and Dad can fund the project. And also so that reviewers don't massacre us. Jan 29 14:09:17 Yeah. If it can't function as a 'normal' phone using all the hardware, like nokia can, it's going to be messy at review time. Jan 29 14:12:39 Sounds like we need some non-tech people to assess the ergonomics/usability of the default build. But not sure such people even exist in this community. Jan 29 14:13:28 Show it to some friends :) Jan 29 14:14:05 I don't have any. :P Jan 29 14:14:45 how about a passport? Jan 29 14:19:10 Parents? Jan 29 14:19:49 IMO, clone the Nokia/Samsung/... interface and you won't go horribly wrong. Jan 29 14:22:23 * skome wakes up Jan 29 14:22:34 I am a mobile user experience guy Jan 29 14:23:02 usability, interaction design, work flow analysis Jan 29 14:23:28 happy to help with whatever, whenever Jan 29 14:23:29 SpeedEvil: other than the various lawsuits ;-) Jan 29 14:23:44 I was meaning a composite, not a blatant ripoff :) Jan 29 14:25:51 device UIs vary by carrier, so you need to pick a 'Cingular Samsung [Model] [Year]'. Jan 29 14:26:14 But then you'd be ripping off a bunch of UI elements designed to sell Cingular products Jan 29 14:26:53 cingular's not too bad except they put "shop cingular" right on the main menu of most of their phones Jan 29 14:27:05 at least from what i've seen, they don't horribly cripple them like verizon tends to do Jan 29 14:27:30 agreed. I wasn't picking on them. Oh, and thank you, btw Jan 29 14:29:21 for what? ;) Jan 29 14:30:29 my latest samsung seems to be suffering from function overload though. there are 2 different buttons on the phone that bring up submenus with 3-4 functions on it, and there's no way to redefine those buttons or submenus Jan 29 14:30:45 Which model? Jan 29 14:30:52 A707 (aka SYNC) Jan 29 14:31:07 Oh yeah. Nice phone. Jan 29 14:31:13 How's the battery life? Jan 29 14:31:19 sucks ;) Jan 29 14:31:31 It's a slim phone, whatcha gonna do. Jan 29 14:31:32 i hear that's common for all HSPDA phones Jan 29 14:31:48 That too. Lot of demand on a skinny battery Jan 29 14:31:53 nod Jan 29 14:31:59 I in some ways really want to go back to mono screens on phones. Colour screens that need lots of power are annoying. Jan 29 14:32:10 it's livable though...if i charge it every other day, i never see the battery indicator go down Jan 29 14:32:19 That has a NetFront browser; very advanced Jan 29 14:32:28 yeah, it's got a pretty big screen too, QVGA res Jan 29 14:32:33 Can open pdfs and run javascript even Jan 29 14:32:58 yeah, though i've found it doesn't work with a lot of javascript heavy stuff Jan 29 14:33:25 No, and actually I am struggling with CSS on that one. Certain things don't want to work. Jan 29 14:33:38 Javascript is a major power consumer Jan 29 14:34:55 i find running opera on the zaurus connected via bluetooth is better ;) Jan 29 14:35:01 (bigger screen too) Jan 29 14:35:25 talking of Opera, I really like their mini version Jan 29 14:35:28 I'd love to play with a Zaurus. Jan 29 14:35:49 i read recently that samsung signed a deal that they are going to start putting opera on their new phones Jan 29 14:37:08 that'd be great. Too many one-off proprietary browsers on mobiles now. Jan 29 14:53:06 this channel is growing every week :) Jan 29 14:54:05 #openmoko: Total of 205 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 204 normal Jan 29 14:58:34 aevin: Ask aloril2 for some real stats :) Jan 29 14:59:38 aevin - We should mrtg/munin it. ;o) Jan 29 15:32:28 Does a GSM module have its own hardwired/registered ident number, equivalent to the Bluetooth device address or a MAC address? Jan 29 15:32:51 Morgret: yes. its called IMEI Jan 29 15:32:57 Tnx Jan 29 15:33:03 ~imei Jan 29 15:33:16 International Mobile Equipment Identificator Jan 29 15:35:10 on cellphones you can check it with *#06# Jan 29 15:35:11 wonder if it would be possible to change it :p Jan 29 15:35:17 It's got a page of its own on Wikipedia, cheers. Jan 29 15:35:38 IMEI is normally easy to chage Jan 29 15:35:53 i mean on neo Jan 29 15:36:08 ynezz: Ill bet there is an instruction to do so :-) Jan 29 15:36:41 Oh, that's not what I was asking about then. I wanted to know if there is some totally hardwired/registered number that cannot be changed. Jan 29 15:37:32 You know, the kind of thing to feed into conspiracy theories about government tracking etc :P Jan 29 15:37:34 imei+sim numbers are used when you connect to network Jan 29 15:37:42 as i understand it... Jan 29 15:38:00 Morgret: IMSI in the Sim is what you think of Jan 29 15:38:09 ~imsi Jan 29 15:38:24 IMSI + Ki in SIM is used to authenticate you Jan 29 15:38:30 IMEIs aren't supposed to be easy to change Jan 29 15:38:50 leventhal: its as easy as plug in cable, fiddle registers Jan 29 15:39:18 if I was xkr47, where would I be... Jan 29 15:39:23 XorA: really just IMSI+Ki ? not +IMEI also? Jan 29 15:39:59 ynezz: IMEI is sent, but is not involved in the process, IMEI can be blocked at Network level, but doesnt identify you as a customer Jan 29 15:40:00 noidd, in irc Jan 29 15:40:04 ynezz: only a handset Jan 29 15:40:05 Ah.. okay. That easy sure, not something you can change within a phone menu. Jan 29 15:40:13 noidd, why ?-D Jan 29 15:40:13 superb Jan 29 15:40:28 You asked if I saw your answer to my question Jan 29 15:40:30 I did not Jan 29 15:40:31 XorA: so if you change your sim, they still know it's you Jan 29 15:40:35 and I was away when you asked Jan 29 15:40:35 :) Jan 29 15:40:50 also - WRU link to the scanomatic moko web thingy :-) Jan 29 15:40:54 ynezz: your SIM identifies a customer, not the phone Jan 29 15:41:03 18:13 < noidd> queston: anyone know where xkr47's scanning countown page is? Jan 29 15:41:06 i mean police and so Jan 29 15:41:09